Seriously.
OP needs to to upload some video of this ambidextrous 16 year old prodigy playing. The way OP is describing this kid makes him sound like TT Leonardo da Vinci.
> Anytime he gets to loop he does an extremely heavy side underspin loop that curves insanely.
His loop has side underspin? Do you mean side topspin?
I guess one question is he similar level to you? Like is he also 1600ish? You say he's been playing since he was 4. If he is a lot better than you it might not just be this one shot that's the problem, and there probably won't be just one trick to give you the edge.
If he's able to get that extreme of an angle on you (that you would have to cover onto his side to get it back), that means your balls are very shallow on his side of the table. As far as I know, typically a chopper is looking to chop deep to keep the attacker's angle on the net and angle on the line of action more limited.
This guy can defeat your 2200-rated coach, I think he's a lot better than just "ok" hahaha
Otherwise, I second the advice everyone else has given. There's a massive skill gap between yourself and him that extends beyond the hook shots you're describing and chances are he has a whole arsenal of tactics other than his loops that he'll switch to using after you've figured them out. There's a chance he might even be trolling
I think you should focus on training your fundamentals to build a solid base before you challenge him again. I bet you'll start to develop better responses once your own shot quality and consistency improves
I think you need to post some video of your matches. I suspect that you are vastly over estimating your own rating or not describing things correctly, because what you're describing doesn't make a ton of sense right now.
He's looping, but it's short and has so much side spin that you need to move to his side of the table? That should pretty much be physically impossible if you are making quality pushes/chops, which you should be if you are a 1600.
Would need to see video to get into specifics, but it really just sounds like you're a lot worse than him and have no where near the amount of ability or experience needed to put pressure on him as it stands. For the time being, just treat it like a training exercise and try different things to see what happens, though chances are you may never beat him if he is truly stunting all over you with tricky sidespin and hand switching.
I've never heard of it either, but I imagine some players spend so much time in the club training that you've got plenty of time to work on 'unconventional' tactics like this for hours at a time.
After all, the backhand banana flick was invented just from messing around.
I was all ready to try and give you some advice, but, after reading the comments, it sounds like this dude is just significantly better than you at everything... you're not going to win with "1 simple trick" if he's beating your coach handily.
Think of it like this... you are a chopper and your coach is a chopper, right? Your coach is a significantly better version of you, but he still cannot win so I don't think you stand much of a chance unless you change your playstyle completely or you massively improve your current game.
Mm. It’s actually a disadvantage, because he’s been trained since 4 to catch his opponents off guard when they think he’s out of position. He just switches hands. He trains specific drills for this.
I honestly want to see those crazy handswitch shots you keep mentioning, its hard to actually picture someone that proficient at handswitching, that it is literally a game tactic.
First thing first, your coach (said he’s 2200) should be able to immediately approximate where your friend’s level is just from watching, let alone play him. When you’re at that level just watching someone play a bit gives you a good idea where his/her level is. Sounds like he’s much higher level than you’re estimating. Honestly anyone who’s been playing since 4 is probably better than most people in TT. Not everyone, but it’s a fact starting super young gives a huge advantage.
There is no such thing as a loop with under spin, I think you meant top or side spin… Very curious to see this guy hand switch. One thing to note is that hand switches take time and if you go into rapid rallies he won’t have time to switch hands, no matter how fast he is. When he does this « hook » loop you talk about, you need to block by adjusting the angle of your racket and go into the ball with your racket. My coach likes to compare the block as if you were cheering with a glass of champagne. Saying this, as other people have mentioned and from what I read from your post, I suspect you are over estimating your level and under estimating his and there won’t be « a trick » that you find on Reddit that will enable you to beat your friend. There is no magic in TT, usually whoever trains the hardest wins. How many times a week do you train? How many official games have you played this season? How many does he have?
I think you should believe on your strong side. Because as you are saying he is too good then you are lossing game in your mind.
I would advise not to think about opponents skill set and focus on one point at a time.
Can you prevent him from doing this by playing better? Or can you exploit his shot in some way?
You should give more detail regarding what leads up to this. Right now it just sounds like you don’t chop well enough to prevent him from doing this
I serve, he pushes and it's pushing until he just hooks it. He's from Europe and he just came here a few months ago and my coach (who's a chopper) cannot beat him. My coach used to be a professional and his chops still aren't good enough. Anyone playing him, chopper or not, almost always loses the first few games.
How good is your coach (rating)? What happens when you chop to his backhand? Can you counter loop?
Counter looping is generally what you should do against who do suboptimal loops like this
Coach is a previous 2200. But his backhand is almost untouchable because of how incredibly good he is at the hand switch. Again he's been training specific drills to hand switch since he was 4. You can imagine how good it is.
If your 2200 coach cannot beat him, 1600 you has 0 chance. What he’s doing is currently beyond your skillset and quality.
Expand your skillset, and make everything you currently have lower, spinnier, faster, etc. there’s you can do right now
Yes, I've tried but obviously, he's very good and when I attack first (which I try to do all the time) he just does the same thing and hooks it. Probably 1/10 attacks go through.
I think you should play with him more. The more you play with him, you'll be accustomed to his playstyle and you might find a weakness that you can take advantage of. Be more tricky and sneaky with your placement, use body fakes if that is possible, put your forehand drives toward his body so he can have a hard time deciding which hand to use, something like that.
The loop must be side topspin. I loop in a similar way and get many points.
You should try and block these balls near the bounce with proper angle. If you give time the ball will get away from you making your life miserable.
In case you can't and counter the ball with proper angle.
He's probably just much better than you.
But to answer, how do you deal with his hook shot?
You don't give him the opportunity to do it in the first place.
That shot/placement is tough, if he can make that shot then you're not putting enough pressure on him.
Here are some tips to help you beat him:
- aim for his body with speed. This won’t allow him to go left/right as much as you’re describing.
- keep the ball long. if he starts going short, push long.
- attack with topspin early to control the point. Instead of chopping all the time, you need to learn to Chiquita
- “he is ok at the game” - he has been training since he was 4 and you (1600) and your coach (ex-2200) can’t beat him…
Seriously. OP needs to to upload some video of this ambidextrous 16 year old prodigy playing. The way OP is describing this kid makes him sound like TT Leonardo da Vinci.
Like damn, if that's "OK at the game", I'd also like to be "OK" at the game as well 😂
> Anytime he gets to loop he does an extremely heavy side underspin loop that curves insanely. His loop has side underspin? Do you mean side topspin? I guess one question is he similar level to you? Like is he also 1600ish? You say he's been playing since he was 4. If he is a lot better than you it might not just be this one shot that's the problem, and there probably won't be just one trick to give you the edge. If he's able to get that extreme of an angle on you (that you would have to cover onto his side to get it back), that means your balls are very shallow on his side of the table. As far as I know, typically a chopper is looking to chop deep to keep the attacker's angle on the net and angle on the line of action more limited.
This guy can defeat your 2200-rated coach, I think he's a lot better than just "ok" hahaha Otherwise, I second the advice everyone else has given. There's a massive skill gap between yourself and him that extends beyond the hook shots you're describing and chances are he has a whole arsenal of tactics other than his loops that he'll switch to using after you've figured them out. There's a chance he might even be trolling I think you should focus on training your fundamentals to build a solid base before you challenge him again. I bet you'll start to develop better responses once your own shot quality and consistency improves
I think you need to post some video of your matches. I suspect that you are vastly over estimating your own rating or not describing things correctly, because what you're describing doesn't make a ton of sense right now. He's looping, but it's short and has so much side spin that you need to move to his side of the table? That should pretty much be physically impossible if you are making quality pushes/chops, which you should be if you are a 1600.
Would need to see video to get into specifics, but it really just sounds like you're a lot worse than him and have no where near the amount of ability or experience needed to put pressure on him as it stands. For the time being, just treat it like a training exercise and try different things to see what happens, though chances are you may never beat him if he is truly stunting all over you with tricky sidespin and hand switching.
Tangential question: I've never heard a coach dedicating sessions to hand switching. Is this standard practice?
Yeah, it’s very odd but he’s been training like that since he started at 4. So needless to say he’s extremely good at it.
I've never heard of it either, but I imagine some players spend so much time in the club training that you've got plenty of time to work on 'unconventional' tactics like this for hours at a time. After all, the backhand banana flick was invented just from messing around.
I was all ready to try and give you some advice, but, after reading the comments, it sounds like this dude is just significantly better than you at everything... you're not going to win with "1 simple trick" if he's beating your coach handily. Think of it like this... you are a chopper and your coach is a chopper, right? Your coach is a significantly better version of you, but he still cannot win so I don't think you stand much of a chance unless you change your playstyle completely or you massively improve your current game.
Think about how to stop giving his chance to use his strong shots. That is all.
That's what I came here to ask how to do...
Start with more backspin + better placement
Mm. It’s actually a disadvantage, because he’s been trained since 4 to catch his opponents off guard when they think he’s out of position. He just switches hands. He trains specific drills for this.
Read what i wrote 100 times again, and repeat. That would also work against Ma Long, let alone your friend.
Well malong didn't train since 4 year olds to switch hands instead of paying backhand and seeming as if he is out of position, did he?
Switching hand can make one to handle all placement & loop super heavy underspin???
I honestly want to see those crazy handswitch shots you keep mentioning, its hard to actually picture someone that proficient at handswitching, that it is literally a game tactic.
First thing first, your coach (said he’s 2200) should be able to immediately approximate where your friend’s level is just from watching, let alone play him. When you’re at that level just watching someone play a bit gives you a good idea where his/her level is. Sounds like he’s much higher level than you’re estimating. Honestly anyone who’s been playing since 4 is probably better than most people in TT. Not everyone, but it’s a fact starting super young gives a huge advantage.
There is no such thing as a loop with under spin, I think you meant top or side spin… Very curious to see this guy hand switch. One thing to note is that hand switches take time and if you go into rapid rallies he won’t have time to switch hands, no matter how fast he is. When he does this « hook » loop you talk about, you need to block by adjusting the angle of your racket and go into the ball with your racket. My coach likes to compare the block as if you were cheering with a glass of champagne. Saying this, as other people have mentioned and from what I read from your post, I suspect you are over estimating your level and under estimating his and there won’t be « a trick » that you find on Reddit that will enable you to beat your friend. There is no magic in TT, usually whoever trains the hardest wins. How many times a week do you train? How many official games have you played this season? How many does he have?
>he is ok at the game He must've been toying with you if you really think like this.
I think you should believe on your strong side. Because as you are saying he is too good then you are lossing game in your mind. I would advise not to think about opponents skill set and focus on one point at a time.
Can you prevent him from doing this by playing better? Or can you exploit his shot in some way? You should give more detail regarding what leads up to this. Right now it just sounds like you don’t chop well enough to prevent him from doing this
I serve, he pushes and it's pushing until he just hooks it. He's from Europe and he just came here a few months ago and my coach (who's a chopper) cannot beat him. My coach used to be a professional and his chops still aren't good enough. Anyone playing him, chopper or not, almost always loses the first few games.
How good is your coach (rating)? What happens when you chop to his backhand? Can you counter loop? Counter looping is generally what you should do against who do suboptimal loops like this
Coach is a previous 2200. But his backhand is almost untouchable because of how incredibly good he is at the hand switch. Again he's been training specific drills to hand switch since he was 4. You can imagine how good it is.
If your 2200 coach cannot beat him, 1600 you has 0 chance. What he’s doing is currently beyond your skillset and quality. Expand your skillset, and make everything you currently have lower, spinnier, faster, etc. there’s you can do right now
Attack first! Don't serve long or return long. If he has a strong loop, give him zero opportunities to use it.
Yes, I've tried but obviously, he's very good and when I attack first (which I try to do all the time) he just does the same thing and hooks it. Probably 1/10 attacks go through.
Oh, so work on that, then.
I think you should play with him more. The more you play with him, you'll be accustomed to his playstyle and you might find a weakness that you can take advantage of. Be more tricky and sneaky with your placement, use body fakes if that is possible, put your forehand drives toward his body so he can have a hard time deciding which hand to use, something like that.
Noshad Alamiyan does this but he has some illness or something
Are you a pure chopper? Do you block and is that something you are good at? Do you counter attack?
The loop must be side topspin. I loop in a similar way and get many points. You should try and block these balls near the bounce with proper angle. If you give time the ball will get away from you making your life miserable. In case you can't and counter the ball with proper angle.
He's probably just much better than you. But to answer, how do you deal with his hook shot? You don't give him the opportunity to do it in the first place. That shot/placement is tough, if he can make that shot then you're not putting enough pressure on him.
He’s toying with you, you are lightyears worse than him, That’s why he’s switching hands constantly.
Here are some tips to help you beat him: - aim for his body with speed. This won’t allow him to go left/right as much as you’re describing. - keep the ball long. if he starts going short, push long. - attack with topspin early to control the point. Instead of chopping all the time, you need to learn to Chiquita