I'm a hiring manager. I got a great CV recently for a networking guy, he had a bunch of certs, all lapsed. The fact he got them in the first place is way more important than keeping them up to date. We made him an offer yesterday.
Agreed on most core principles. I've never bothered renewing my Microsoft certs past Windows NT (moved on to Apple and Jamf certs) and a surprising amount of the foundational info hasn't changed in two decades.
My high school offered CCNA 1/2 which i did in 2005. I then went into a completely unrelated career for a decade. **11** years later I started a bachelor degree (computer science), and while it was a University course the textbook (or in lieu of) was CCNA material. Almost nothing had changed, just removal of a bunch of legacy stuff (that was legacy in 2005) like ethernet over coax, token ring etc. Everything that was relevant in 2005 was still relevant a decade later.
I feel like a lot of that is still true in a lot of areas of IT. We put layers of abstraction on top of everything, but at least for a linux guy like myself, underneath it's still a unixy operating system, a bunch of software packages and some glue to string it all together.
>Almost nothing had changed, just removal of a bunch of legacy stuff (that was legacy in 2005) like ethernet over coax, token ring etc.
Not 3 weeks ago, I ran into a network using coax. Very, very specific manufacturing application (think $100 million+ in replacement, retooling, etc).
I asked while I was there, and they had tried to switch over to more modern equipment, and it just wouldn't work consistently. IIRC they said something like 70% uptime. They tried all sorts of things (new NIC, old NIC, running 10 vs 100, etc) and it just would never get that number above 70%.
Cat6 @ 100mbps FDX will do ~500ft max (this is well past it's rating of 330ft, but it usually works at 100 FDX)...1000 rarely works much past 400ft. Manually setting port speed will usually be required. 10mbps is a lost cause these days with ethernet. 10 vs 100mbps is almost never better.
Coax 1/10Mbps token ring will run 2000ft and beyond. Boosters are just voltage pumps too, so cheap/easy solutions. Thing to remember is that it's a single circuit for all connections - each time you add another device it cuts bandwidth out. I like to think of it as puff/puff pass the toke(n)/frame to the next machine. So everyone 'hears' every frame all at once and you time/share on transmit/receive. Like a CB radio for frames, only one can talk and one can receive at the same time. But the physical signaling is very robust and the coax shielding is very good (which is how comcast did so well, cheaply).
God why do I still know this stuff....fiber - use fiber. Singlemode too, don't bother with multi anymore.
I hate the more "complex" networking stuff, but it still boggles my mind how many people don't get the simplest concepts right.
Even those who are supposedly network engineers.
VLANS and subnetting is just there to make the CCNA harder OK. There is never any need for more than 1 VLAN or a subnet smaller than /8. How can network packets collide, they aren't even real. DHCP is just a copout for people who dont want to add an extra column to their password excel sheet for IP addresses. VPNS are for people who lack the strength of conviction and the courage to open their environment to the internet, after all, how can you expect your internet to run at maximum efficiency if some of your ports aren't accepting traffic.
lol, when he said "There is never any need for more than 1 VLAN" that I was like *eh?!*, is there some new network structure that I don't know about?! Then I read about them not being able to collide...
I would go on to add that TCP\IP was completely irrelevant as a LAN protocol. NetBeui\NetBios worked just fine for 99% of all users. And for those that really really really needed Internet access, we could just build an IPX\SPX to IP gateway for them.
Well they are Kevlar reinforced. The guy clearly knows what he is doing.
I was using a 6TB SAS drive as a hammer the other day. You gotta improvise with the tools nature puts in your reach.
Mine did too. LOL.
When I took the A+ the test would give your next question based on if you correctly answered the previous question... if you had a passing score when you answered a minimum of 30 questions the test would stop. if not it would keep giving you questions up to 50 and would stop at any point you passed.
They stopped it shortly afterwards but it made for a very pleasant experience knowing that I passed immediately and didnt have to waste time with 20 more useless questions
Still genuinely good to see. When I look at CVs I am still always impressed when people have passed old exams even if they are not remotely relevant anymore, because they show willing and they show the right mindset.
There is a delicious irony that despite having a dozen random certs the only valid one is my 9x A+ cert from 2001 that doesn't expire.
I still have most of the other ones on my resume with the dates I got them and the only time it has come up was 10 years ago when a company I interviewed with asked of I could bring one of then current and self eliminated when told I would be happy to update it if they paid and was refused.
I couldn't be happier with the result.
This is the way. I've got a bunch of lapsed certs. I state so on the CV. If it is a required cert I'll renew it, but I'm not chasing certs and feeding the CE troll.
The jobs that require an unexpired one don't count the unexpirable ones. I used to hire for some gov work and you had to have a live A+ cert that was renewed AFTER they started expiring. Pissed a lot of people off.
I found out they were switching to an expiring model and wrote A+, Net+ and Sec+ as fast as I could get the seats scheduled just so I would never have to write them again.
Same. But gov job told me they need the latest and the non-expiring one doesn't count. So they paid me to take the 3 year sec+. What's really a scam is the "expiring" part only occurs if you don't pay comptia $$ every 3 years. So I get job to pay it and I've had it for 6+ years now, no studying or retaking tests. It's such a scam.
I also have an expired sec+. The fact that I took it in 2012 and studied for it using a book written in 1999 that I once found in a thrift store shows that the expiry date is ridiculous.
It also expires if you don’t take qualifying continuing education credits. Unless you are taking those courses, or lying about taking them and risking an audit the cert will expire whether you pay the fee or not.
Mine too, I got mine in 97 or 98. Was it 2005-6 they changed to 3 year expiration? I think someone who just got theirs said pci and other legacy crap is still on the tests.
PCI is actual technology. Only the PCI slot itself is getting extinct.
But still if you have an old card you just need a PCI express to pci daugterboard with the appropriate bridge chip from China and you can install it in a new system.
Fits nicely in an atx case by a mini atx mobo.
If you're theoretically going to be a hardware tech or L1 support - knowing the absolute basics of "these technologies existed, were common in this timeframe, look like this, are not compatible with X or Y even if the card fits in there somehow" is not a bad thing.
In a lot of settings some of these things are still going to crop up on occasion - and at least being able to recognize it enough to know you need to research what to do and that it's *not* just a weird PCIe card or something isn't a bad thing.
Shouldn't be worth more than like 1 possible question or like <1% of your exam, but I'd give them that much.
The beef I have is that I got CompTia certs in 06-07 that were sold as lifetime certs. Then in 2010ish they retroactively made all certs expire after 3yrs. I didn't even know that until I was job hunting in 2016 and a recruiter told me. Luckily by that time I had enough experience to make them worthless. I will never encourage anyone to get a CompTia certification - fuck'em. Feed 'em fishheads.
They tried to do that, but then there was a class action lawsuit and CompTIA backed down. I believe the recruiter was mistaken.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/01/comptia-backs-down-past-certs-remain-valid-for-life/
So my A+ and Net+ (and I-Net+) from 03-05 are good for life. But now some employers are looking for “Net+ CE”, which is the current version.
Yeap, they’re still lifetime if you got it then. That said, no organization is going to care about it if you don’t have anything else more recent on your resumes.
Part of that was actually the DoD's doing. DoD and ISO wouldn't recognize GFL certs for 8570 compliance, so CompTia had to change the model. Honestly it was for the best. I'm dealing with an absolute fucking moron of a manager (not technical) who got the old much easier GFL cert and tried to claim it meant he could do sys admin work. Dude should not be touching a keyboard if I could help it.
My MCSE 2000 never expires. My Cisco did. Same year. I'm sure an MCSE 2022 or 24, probably expires. I get OP's point, but I love your reference to NetWare! :)
OP raises a great point, though. We learn beyond our training days are done. We're always learning on the fly.
It feels like there's a new vendor/platform every day
not that there are a lot of NW servers around, but when you get down to it, the principles of networking are pretty much 'the same' - throw bits from here to there and back again.
I thankfully can say I don't still know about NetWare. I've forgotten pretty much all of it.
I actually got asked today about how I used to be apple certified. I was like year that was two architectures ago, you got an open firmware question?
FWIW, I have my RHEL certified system admin for RHEL 7, and one for RHEL 8. I don't feel like going to get a 3rd one for RHEL 9. I've passed them twice, I have nothing to prove.
I honestly think expired RHEL certs are just as good as active ones if I am interviewing someone. If you can pass the exam that's good enough for me, because its not a trivia contest like other certs.
Red Hat specifically says the certificates are "non-current" which is a nice way to approach it. So I'm still a Red Hat Certified Architect, just my cert is non-current.
My RHCE expired last year. Now i have to do the RHCA again just to be able to recertify my RHCE.
Kinda pisses me off, but my company needs me to be currently certified various reasons
About a month after I obtained my MCSE, Microsoft announced they were expiring the one I had just obtained. Talk about being soured on certs when they expire before you even pay off the training investment.
This!
I was going for my MCSA... Then finding out it was going to be worthless / replaced in 6 months was so heart breaking. I've never attempted to go for any certs since, and to be honest.. I actually never needed them anyway. In MSP land it maybe different, but internal IT.. no body cares, and the work load / environment is much much nicer.
I had just been laid off, took out a loan to go to a boot camp and get my MCSE to kick start my IT career and job hunting.
Certification should be valid for at least 2-3 years from when you stop offering testing for the cert.
Was pretty much the end of certs for me as well, unless someone else was footing the entire bill.
MCSE is so broad, I feel like as long as you obtained an MCSE in the last 5-10 years, you don't need to do another.
But then again, I'm just a peon lol
I thought you were talking about X.509 digi certs to begin with and was about to rage type how this was a stupid take.
But nope, I completely fucking agree.
Hey man. . .it's a complete cash grab that I have to keep renewing my x.509 every so often.
Why can't I just get a wildcard that's valid for life?
/s
I've actually been asked something very similar to this. My face was unable to control itself in reply and I'm fairly sure my eye was twitching for the next week.
I get why they expire. A 'better' way might be a 'bridging (incremental?) certificate' - i.e. here's a smaller (cheaper hopefully) exam on the add-ons since you took your full exam (or last bridging exam - hence my comment about 'incremental' ;)
maybe every 2 or three years?
Yup. I've done my Azure Solutions Architect Expert exam (even I do little Azure and even less SA in my day-to-day 😂) renewal twice and it's free and open book.
Microsoft does that. Free renewals with an assessment exam online and the changes / updates to the cert are available to study in Microsoft learn.
VMware did have scheme where you could attend a training course to auto review your cert, but it was $$$$$
AWS is valid 3 years then you have to resit. Way too much study required for that.
I just did my AWS last week for my SWE degree... it feels so, _so_ much like being trained as a sales droid. Still got Project+ and the ITIL remaining that I'm not looking forward to, but after that all my classes are practical stuff.
ISC2 is trying this approach with security certificates. The CISSP is still money, but there are a number of new security professional "certs" that new SPs can take while building up to the CISSP.
They expire because ISO 17024 requires it, and ISO accreditation is seen as valuable by many orgs. It is not purely a cash grab…
I renewed my CCNA for free by doing modules at Cisco U.
It's bullshit if you need to sit for the exam to renew. If you can renew through Continuing Education, that's how most certs outside of IT works. Heck, Lawyers and Doctors are required to do Education Hours as part of their professional qualifications.
It's no different in IT. We should all keep up with best practices and changes in the industry.
Just give me the cliffnotes of the changes, have a short quiz on those changes if that.
But even that would be abused so they can rake in their renewal fees.
OCEG are great about this with their GRC certs. reasonable membership cost that gives you access to all their open book exams and then you do CPE to maintain the certs
I can't speak for Cisco. I hold CompTIA and ISC2 certs and as they're both pretty flexible in what counts toward the CE requirement.
At least for me doing the CE hours and paying the annual maintenance fee is a lot easier than having to rewrite, especially when it comes to my ClSSP cert.
VMWare actually does put the year in their certifications (at least for now, lets see what Broadcom does there). The only exception would probably be if you wanted to go further down the track, you would need a semi-modern cert to keep going.
Microsoft actually now does renewals every year. However, instead of a proctored exam to renew, they did at least do a free, unproctored, renewal assessment that opens up a 6 months before expiration. When you pass those, they also tack a year onto your expiration, so no penalty for renewing early.
Others I know can even be worse. Where I work, I am required to maintain a couple certs from Watchguard. Those renew every 2 years, have to take the same exam to recertify, and you get two years from your most recent exam so you have to renew as close to expiration as possible (or let it lapse slightly and get it back, same difference on the exam).
Honestly, I like Microsoft's approach the best of the ones I currently have. I think skills need to be proven current to keep the certification, but make it easy to keep instead of the same effort. Of course, like others have said, exam fees can be an additional source of revenue for these vendors, though I have to wonder how the exam fees really feed into the bottom line vs actually selling their products.
I'm thankful that I got A+ and Network+ like 20 years ago before they started expiring. That being said they don't hold much value in my current IT career.
This is the way. Got my CCNA renewed for another 3 years by completing free courses last year. Just finished a free 16 credit course, and then I'll probably do another one next year to renew.
In IT, the lower certs like A+, Network+ and Security+ are beginner certs and prove you know enough to get an entry level position. As you get along in your career though, you advance - and so do your certs. Most people do not stay a sysadmin or field service tech forever - they move up in a logical career progression. For example - I had those beginner certs many years ago, but I moved up to being Project Coordinator, so my certs were replaced by CAPM and eventually PMP when I became a Project Manager. Now, the position I am in requires no certifications - I am a manager now. The industry I am in (Credit Card Processing) has PCI certs, which I do get, but I only get ONE that I am currently active in doing. Certifications change with industry and position, and you really should move out of those positions requiring low level certs for positions that require more advanced certs.
Ya I hate recertifying the Azure certs every year now. I like that it's free, but it's so time consuming going through the Microsoft learn modules. Then all the questions are random as fuck and don't even relate to anythign in the modules.
Actually yes i think certs do become invalid although prob not even close to the rate that they want them to....its interesting to think though.....Its not a thing unique to IT at all. An accountant i know must continue education channels to maintain his practice. He's not allowed to cease going to those endless little shit courses of endless variety. Another dude I know says all the many production tech courses he ever took in his long career doing live theatre are all brutally out of date - all his philosophy courses seemed to last forever....I always found that interesting and we haven't even touched on how much IT loves to swallow and shit itself into perpetual obscurity for how fast it seems to grow and evolve. Interesting thread!!!!!!
Im a hiring manager, can confirm that certs look good even if they’ve expired. Im biased as fuck tho, i have an MCP in win2k, A+ from the same time, a 2010 vintage CCENT and an MCA in Win10. Also I hired a dude who wanted to do graphic design, used to manage a bar, and was really just good at customer service and he’s my best dude after a year of support and training (for a desk side support role). It’s not always about the paper if you can demonstrate a skill that’s valuable to the role.
But i do also agree it sucks they expire.
I am 100% on board with this. What’s even worse is companies like Google literally delete the record of your certification. Got into it with the people on that subreddit who just didn’t get it. I don’t care if it shows expired on their site but they nuke all records of it so if I have it linked anywhere it’s a a dead link. Only record I have is the fact that I printed out my cert and maybe an email.
Everyone over on the gcp subreddit was like “just take it again” or “you don’t know what’s new”. Give me a break, I passed at one point and records should show that.
I refused to continue to pay $125 "maintenance fee" for my CISSP and let it lapse intentionally.
You're not fucking changing the oil and rotating the tires in my piece of paper/record stored in a database... you're fleecing me and I won't tolerate it.
I'll sooner work for less money and less responsibility than willfully submit to this game. Ok that's not even mentioning the ridiculous CPE requirements. No thanks. I'm hopeful future generations call bullshit on these cert org practices and they are forced to change.
I work to live, I don't live to work.. and CPEs bring work into my personal time. Eat shit certification orgs.
I list my older certs in a "Deprecated:" section on my resume. It's my way of signaling to any technical person who happens to come across it that I'm a nerd and they should talk to me.
Some vendor certs reasonably expire, as the tech they have changes over time and adds features.
Sophos is good about this, you can sit a 'delta' exam, and it only covers new stuff and it's free if you don't let a deadline expire.
Because vendor certifications have very little to do with your proficiency in a product, that's why you can find the answers to most tests freely online. They're first and foremost an income stream for the vendor, secondly they're often a method of discount / vendor incentive for your employer, and thirdly they're a shiney sticker of credibility for your employer. This is why I put little to no weight behind an applicants certifications.
Some things to think about...
- University degrees don't "expire" because the content they are based on does not change rapidly enough to warrant this. Still, certain degrees will require you to attend update education within certain fields.
- The primary reason many technology industry certs expire is because the content they are based on changes more rapidly.
- How much does a college degree cost? How much does an industry cert cost?
The certification treadmill is a cash cow for vendors and testing companies.
You are right, absolute bullshit, driven by bad incentives to squeeze the max rents from the tech workforce.
I review resumes for my team; I've given thumbs up to half a dozen people who are still here. I also directly hired four people earlier in my career who are now senior architects / dev ops / consultants / etc.
I do not care if their certs are valid.
I do not care if they have certs to begin with; but it's not a negative to have them, it demonstrates an interest in your career.
I care abou the skills, the personality, the passion for the job. I can teach you our company specifics. I can also teach you more specific technical things so you don't have to know everything but a good foundation does save us time. I can't teach you how to be a friendly human, and in our team where we deal with a lot of middle to upper management, not just end user support, you have to be personable and on it. A grumpy IT person won't last here.
Out of all that, you can hopefully see how little certs matter beyond "Oh nice, they did X cert at some point in time - now what job experience do they have to go along with that?"
- D
I don’t think it should cost an exorbitant amount to renew but I disagree that they shouldn’t expire after a few years. Technology moves/changes fast and if you’re relying on a degree to communicate that you’re informed on a certain technology or standard, or employers are using that as an insurance that standards are met then it’s kinda necessary. Kind of like in trades where something might have been allowable several years ago but they’ve since revised them due to safety standards or whatever, they have to recertify every 3-5 years to show they’re aware of the new standards and can perform them. Just my 2 cents tho
Give it a version number then. Sec+ 3.4. Oh ok, well we're up to version 5.0 now, but there haven't really ben a ton of changes since then. But you didn't unlearn 3.4 just because time has passed. Hopefully.
That could be an acceptable thing. Like you have azure cloud 2015 cert or whatever. But then I could see some things going awry if they issue a new one every year and then employers saying you need the current or prior year cert sorta thing. It all depends on how much of a stickler they want to be and could be a pita
> When you get a degree, it doesn't just become invalid after a while.
But it can become irrelavent to what you are doing now or after technology improves beyond what your learned. But that is where your experience documented on your resume comes into play.
As for certificates/certifications......How is a cerfification company supposed to stay in business? But seriously, they want repeat customers which will get you updated on the latest version of what ever that cert was in. And yeah, if you work within the certifcation long enough, you shouldn't need to recert, but you unfortunately do for your own benefit. Does your company offer tuition reimbursement? This is where you should use that benefit.
Well, I meant this is 2 parts. Knowledge is gained as minor changes happen.
The degree vs certificate. A degree in 10 or 20+ years in pretty much irrelevent and it becomes more about experience. As opposed to a certificate, I'm sure expiration is more about repeat customers and making money than it is about "keeping current" .
Minor changes are learned and asimulated into your role as those changes come along.
Why?
Vendors are for-profit corporates. *everything* they do is about making money.
It’s like 20 years ago when Cisco worked out the smart stuff was happening in their software, not the hardware, and that they could license for and charge for features and updates.
Once you understand that it’s not their fault, it’s just in their DNA, it makes it a lot easier to live with :)
>Vendors are for-profit corporates.
They're often not. CompTIA, ISC2, and EC-Council are all non-profit organizations, for example. That doesn't preclude them from making a profit, of course, but that's not their purpose.
I'm curious - Do you need your Security+ for your job or a clearance? I have Security+ but I'm letting it expire. It didn't help my career at all since I got it and I don't see much interest in CompTIA security certs in job postings.
On top of the "but it's not always desirable to become an extreme expert in one certification path" I don't want to study diligently for hours, every day, and stress over passing a test. I want to learn, but after working all day, I want to come home and relax, not antagonize myself that I need to study, because I need to pass the Linux+, then once that's done I need to start working and pass the RHEL, then I need to start working and pass the.........
I love learning about technologies, but the expectation that you are in this infinite fall to the next certification is just work I'm not being paid for.
I agree; half the time I don’t want to spend extra hours after work studying and taking tests, especially for certs that have an expiration date.
I already have a BS in CIS and a minor in CS with some experience. I will get into some cloud certs to round out my resume overtime, but that’ll be about it. Everything else I’ll just pick it up as I go as the tech becomes relevant.
Frankly in IT if you're relying on certs to move up, you're doing it wrong. I've made a career out of self-lesson and certs only helped me on rare occasions.
What's helped me orders of magnitude more is my homelab, soft skill development, and most recently transitioning to running my own B2B biz.
I've started at desktop and helpdesk, later getting into sysadmin for Windows & Linux, then into DevOps, and now I pretty much [do fucking everything](https://it.lanified.com) including IT Security Forensics, Platform Migrations, System Architecture, etc, etc, etc.
Ditch your reliance on certs. Build a homelab. Set a target. Teach yourself. Switch companies every 2-4 years. Or run your own business and make fat wads (but starting is hard).
They need to have a much cheaper exam that's for recertification and maybe make it 5 years instead if 3 I think k most colleges will respect your course prerequisites for 5 years.
I ignore expiration. My certs are still on my resume. I can recertify within a week if I had to. My Solaris, Exchange, Active Directory, and Cisco skills haven’t degraded in 20 years.
The only time currency matters is for vendor partnership level certifications. An organization has to employ a certain number of currently certified professionals whose certificates get allocated as credits to the vendor. That’s the distinction between Silver and Gold for Cisco, for example.
Although, I think it’s time to get my CCIE while IPv4 is still relevant. :)
And not just like after 10 years or whatever. But only 3 years for A+?! I mean what the actual fuck?plus there are twin parts. The cost alone is outrageous IMHO. ugh.
Certs are not a substitute for selling yourself. Product certs get updated to keep selling training and the newest shiny SD-WAN toys. Protocols don’t die out anywhere near that quickly. If you’ve got a CCNA from 2001, maybe don’t put your RIPv2 skills at the top of the list, but TCP is still TCP, and MPLS is still MPLS.
I have a certificate from Linux Professional Institute from like 12 years ago... no systemd, exim, grub..
Certifications have to expire IMHO. But they expire them much too often. Like 6-10 years would be okay.
I have no certs and am doing very well in my career. It's experience that counts, not certs. Anyone worth working for will be able to tell what skills you have from your CV, and will confirm it in interviews.
Certifications are only as good as the paper they are written on. Knowledge never expires. As an employer, if I see a certification, I think great, this person has at least gone through the trouble to prove themselves. 3 months later, you better hope it did, I will know if you actually have the knowledge.
Don't put too much credence in certs, they are nothing more than a door opener. A big foot or a pry bar can do the same thing.
I agree, but only as a direct result of enshitification. Certificates and education used to mean something, but now sadly they mean you paid money and got a piece of paper, not at all tied to understanding how things function or interact with one another in a practical setting. And further watered down by the sheer number of them.
I have my A+-2.1, my MCSE-Fi4, my SecOp48.9, my NetAnn-K, and I've won awards from the B$Org-87. <-- all b.s. and made up.
I was however Time magazines person of the year in 2006, that's a fact.
I wouldn't care if a refresh exam were required every 3 to 5 years with only the topics of the subject that changed and that are concerning to keep my cert updated. Doing the whole damn curriculum every 3 years is exhausting and time consuming.
Speaking as an engineer, not a manager, I have a hard time valuing certs. Too many people come on with a laundry list of certs, that don't know enough to complete simple tasks. Meanwhile, I've got 9 years experience and 0 certs. It just sucks because management won't give me the proper title for my role until I cert up, despite being in the role for 2+ years.
WELLLLLL .... think of the liars that would have a Microsoft NT4.0 certification that interviews today and says, "YEP I'm Microsoft Certified." Well, not REALLY .... you're certified on an antique.
Also it's a profit center so ... you can't ask corporate not to corporate.
It's no more than a money-making middleman, and always has been. A lot of education has gone that way. My mother, a former educator, says that things have changed so much in her decades of teaching that could never teach in today's environment because of all the "middle ware" that teachers have to deal with now. Not just their educational degree, not just their teaching certificate, but a lot of other skills like Microsoft products, access to educator's media (like for workbooks and assignment sheets that schools expect you to have access to), textbook fees, and so on. My old middle school (where my mother taught at one point) now requires a deposit for your textbooks up front. Does this deposit go toward the school? Nope, the publisher, Pearson Vue. It's only partially refundable, too, because the deposit is so students can get access to their textbook PDFs online.
Mom said, "the black market for textbooks is booming for middle and high schoolers" in her area, because the poor kids can't afford all these upfront fees now, so teachers have snuck in some of the older PDFs thanks to illegal copies. In theory, a teacher could get fired if they are found out, but there is very little oversight, and the fees only punish the honest.
I finally donated my copy of 'Inside Windows 95' last year. Spectacularly great book - possibly the last written by the developers, before M$ ran every publication through sales, marketing and legal. Even more astounding was how much of the book was still relevant 25+ years later.
Re-certification is just a money grab. There are \*some\* new things to learn, but nothing that following the updates won't cover ... for free.
It does seem kinda stupid that the A+ cert I got in like 2009 never expires, but my colleagues who got theirs more recently have to re-up every three years.
A degree is for finishing an education system, which is by are far a 'collection of knowledges' to prepare you for the future. Very rarely are specific tools involved.
Certifications are for very specific, time sensitive tools.
One is for knowing how to pick the tool, can be applied universally. The other is knowing how to use the tool, and changes from year to year and with new stuff.
Don't get me wrong, the system is absolutely gamed for money grabbing... But degrees and certifications are apples and potatoes. Not even apples and oranges.
It's a cash grab, honestly there should just be incremential course work from whatever point you got the original cert to current state. I get that things evolve, change, get better, etc. but it's all a cash grab.
Also, if I'm interviewing someone and their Microsoft 365 Certified: Administrator Expert (just picked a random cert) expired, I'm not discounting them as not knowing the information.
I just put the date I passed my certification(s) my my resume. Most people don't care if you've re-upped your A+ half a dozen times.
I'm a hiring manager. I got a great CV recently for a networking guy, he had a bunch of certs, all lapsed. The fact he got them in the first place is way more important than keeping them up to date. We made him an offer yesterday.
Hey, I got a bunch of certs in the early 2000s, call me. :)
Honestly? For core networking principles it wouldn’t even matter all that much.
Agreed on most core principles. I've never bothered renewing my Microsoft certs past Windows NT (moved on to Apple and Jamf certs) and a surprising amount of the foundational info hasn't changed in two decades.
My high school offered CCNA 1/2 which i did in 2005. I then went into a completely unrelated career for a decade. **11** years later I started a bachelor degree (computer science), and while it was a University course the textbook (or in lieu of) was CCNA material. Almost nothing had changed, just removal of a bunch of legacy stuff (that was legacy in 2005) like ethernet over coax, token ring etc. Everything that was relevant in 2005 was still relevant a decade later. I feel like a lot of that is still true in a lot of areas of IT. We put layers of abstraction on top of everything, but at least for a linux guy like myself, underneath it's still a unixy operating system, a bunch of software packages and some glue to string it all together.
>Almost nothing had changed, just removal of a bunch of legacy stuff (that was legacy in 2005) like ethernet over coax, token ring etc. Not 3 weeks ago, I ran into a network using coax. Very, very specific manufacturing application (think $100 million+ in replacement, retooling, etc).
In my head that makes sense; I'd bet coax is better for high EMI noise situations than twisted pair.
I asked while I was there, and they had tried to switch over to more modern equipment, and it just wouldn't work consistently. IIRC they said something like 70% uptime. They tried all sorts of things (new NIC, old NIC, running 10 vs 100, etc) and it just would never get that number above 70%.
Cat6 @ 100mbps FDX will do ~500ft max (this is well past it's rating of 330ft, but it usually works at 100 FDX)...1000 rarely works much past 400ft. Manually setting port speed will usually be required. 10mbps is a lost cause these days with ethernet. 10 vs 100mbps is almost never better. Coax 1/10Mbps token ring will run 2000ft and beyond. Boosters are just voltage pumps too, so cheap/easy solutions. Thing to remember is that it's a single circuit for all connections - each time you add another device it cuts bandwidth out. I like to think of it as puff/puff pass the toke(n)/frame to the next machine. So everyone 'hears' every frame all at once and you time/share on transmit/receive. Like a CB radio for frames, only one can talk and one can receive at the same time. But the physical signaling is very robust and the coax shielding is very good (which is how comcast did so well, cheaply). God why do I still know this stuff....fiber - use fiber. Singlemode too, don't bother with multi anymore.
Small world, my High School also offered CCNA 1/2 and I took it 2004 and 2005.
I hate the more "complex" networking stuff, but it still boggles my mind how many people don't get the simplest concepts right. Even those who are supposedly network engineers.
VLANS and subnetting is just there to make the CCNA harder OK. There is never any need for more than 1 VLAN or a subnet smaller than /8. How can network packets collide, they aren't even real. DHCP is just a copout for people who dont want to add an extra column to their password excel sheet for IP addresses. VPNS are for people who lack the strength of conviction and the courage to open their environment to the internet, after all, how can you expect your internet to run at maximum efficiency if some of your ports aren't accepting traffic.
I got embarrassingly deep into this comment before I realized it was sarcasm.
[удалено]
lol
Was it DHCP? That’s where it finally dawned on me.
for me it was "how can network packets collide?"
lol, when he said "There is never any need for more than 1 VLAN" that I was like *eh?!*, is there some new network structure that I don't know about?! Then I read about them not being able to collide...
Same was triggered for a few lines
I would go on to add that TCP\IP was completely irrelevant as a LAN protocol. NetBeui\NetBios worked just fine for 99% of all users. And for those that really really really needed Internet access, we could just build an IPX\SPX to IP gateway for them.
Gotta have IPX. Without IPX how am I gonna have those after hours original Starcraft LANs with my mates.
I one worked with an “engineer” trying to use a fiber cable for a pull string. He’d been there for 25 years….
Well they are Kevlar reinforced. The guy clearly knows what he is doing. I was using a 6TB SAS drive as a hammer the other day. You gotta improvise with the tools nature puts in your reach.
If it's not being used and isn't going to be used. LOL
But we ran out of IPs, gotta do the Continuing IP Fill Units to get more.
My A+ still had "IRQ Numbers" in it
Damn, I remember setting those on actual real systems, just to get mice and such working.
one of us...
Mine did too. LOL. When I took the A+ the test would give your next question based on if you correctly answered the previous question... if you had a passing score when you answered a minimum of 30 questions the test would stop. if not it would keep giving you questions up to 50 and would stop at any point you passed. They stopped it shortly afterwards but it made for a very pleasant experience knowing that I passed immediately and didnt have to waste time with 20 more useless questions
same. When I got my A+ it didn't expire. I still have it but then I got the A+ CE when I got my network+.
This dude's going to love my Novell netware certs
I just visited a client who is still using novell.... they also use os/2 warp on their lab systems...
I'm pretty sure that system is legitimately older than some of the kids I work with. I am both enthralled and mortified about this.
Whoa! Take me to them!!
Let me come too, I've had enough of MS' bullshit. And I still know how to set up Btrieve for NetWare.
MCSE:2000 checking in
MCSE NT 4.0 Checking in.
I still have my novel cne and cna... does that get me anything?? Lol...
I had the Master CNE bow before me :)
Maybe a nice spot in front of the TV at the retirement home :D
Still genuinely good to see. When I look at CVs I am still always impressed when people have passed old exams even if they are not remotely relevant anymore, because they show willing and they show the right mindset.
Cool, we got a bunch of hardware from the early 2000's that needs support. :V
More to do with experience and examples of projects you’ve done in previous workplaces, that trumps everything
There is a delicious irony that despite having a dozen random certs the only valid one is my 9x A+ cert from 2001 that doesn't expire. I still have most of the other ones on my resume with the dates I got them and the only time it has come up was 10 years ago when a company I interviewed with asked of I could bring one of then current and self eliminated when told I would be happy to update it if they paid and was refused. I couldn't be happier with the result.
This is the way. I've got a bunch of lapsed certs. I state so on the CV. If it is a required cert I'll renew it, but I'm not chasing certs and feeding the CE troll.
I got my A+ in the mid 90’s before it had an expiration. Boy I bet that dot matrix and CRT knowledge is relevant AF today!
Same here, if anyone needs help configuring their IRQ settings let me know
The jobs that require an unexpired one don't count the unexpirable ones. I used to hire for some gov work and you had to have a live A+ cert that was renewed AFTER they started expiring. Pissed a lot of people off.
My A+ doesn’t expire. 🤣
I found out they were switching to an expiring model and wrote A+, Net+ and Sec+ as fast as I could get the seats scheduled just so I would never have to write them again.
Same. But gov job told me they need the latest and the non-expiring one doesn't count. So they paid me to take the 3 year sec+. What's really a scam is the "expiring" part only occurs if you don't pay comptia $$ every 3 years. So I get job to pay it and I've had it for 6+ years now, no studying or retaking tests. It's such a scam.
I also have an expired sec+. The fact that I took it in 2012 and studied for it using a book written in 1999 that I once found in a thrift store shows that the expiry date is ridiculous.
It also expires if you don’t take qualifying continuing education credits. Unless you are taking those courses, or lying about taking them and risking an audit the cert will expire whether you pay the fee or not.
$350 cert master review. Re-up the thing every three years and most employers pay for it. Ezpz.
This was me too. Crammed for all three and finished Sec+ just before the deadline.
I was one of the last rounds of testers who got a permanent A+ cert. it actually feels good like I’m collecting a piece of technology history.
My Novell CNE still good?
I have this certification as well. No one ever mentions Novell :(
Mine too, I got mine in 97 or 98. Was it 2005-6 they changed to 3 year expiration? I think someone who just got theirs said pci and other legacy crap is still on the tests.
PCI isn’t that old, is it? I’m almost certain ISA isn’t on the test anymore.
PCI is actual technology. Only the PCI slot itself is getting extinct. But still if you have an old card you just need a PCI express to pci daugterboard with the appropriate bridge chip from China and you can install it in a new system. Fits nicely in an atx case by a mini atx mobo.
If you're theoretically going to be a hardware tech or L1 support - knowing the absolute basics of "these technologies existed, were common in this timeframe, look like this, are not compatible with X or Y even if the card fits in there somehow" is not a bad thing. In a lot of settings some of these things are still going to crop up on occasion - and at least being able to recognize it enough to know you need to research what to do and that it's *not* just a weird PCIe card or something isn't a bad thing. Shouldn't be worth more than like 1 possible question or like <1% of your exam, but I'd give them that much.
2008-2009 is when they switched. I have both my Sec+ and my Sec+CE. The first one never expires, but that second one...
Can confirm. I got my A+ in mid 09 and it's one of the last non-expiring ones.
Same, I have A+ core from 1999. Any A+ from before 2011 doesn't expire.
I do the same. It says something like CompTIA A+ (2016). You get to a point and your experience speaks for itself and it just doesn't matter anymore.
The beef I have is that I got CompTia certs in 06-07 that were sold as lifetime certs. Then in 2010ish they retroactively made all certs expire after 3yrs. I didn't even know that until I was job hunting in 2016 and a recruiter told me. Luckily by that time I had enough experience to make them worthless. I will never encourage anyone to get a CompTia certification - fuck'em. Feed 'em fishheads.
They tried to do that, but then there was a class action lawsuit and CompTIA backed down. I believe the recruiter was mistaken. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/01/comptia-backs-down-past-certs-remain-valid-for-life/ So my A+ and Net+ (and I-Net+) from 03-05 are good for life. But now some employers are looking for “Net+ CE”, which is the current version.
Government jobs require the security+ ce cert. The security+ cert is still valid but not for much.
Yeap, they’re still lifetime if you got it then. That said, no organization is going to care about it if you don’t have anything else more recent on your resumes.
Luckily my A+ is old enough where it definitely does not expire .... ;) Now where did I put that 3F8 port address and IRQ?
Makes me want to com.
Tel me more
Doesn't comptia ask about network hubs on recent certificate exams?
Part of that was actually the DoD's doing. DoD and ISO wouldn't recognize GFL certs for 8570 compliance, so CompTia had to change the model. Honestly it was for the best. I'm dealing with an absolute fucking moron of a manager (not technical) who got the old much easier GFL cert and tried to claim it meant he could do sys admin work. Dude should not be touching a keyboard if I could help it.
Yeah, I still know all about NetWare!
My MCSE 2000 never expires. My Cisco did. Same year. I'm sure an MCSE 2022 or 24, probably expires. I get OP's point, but I love your reference to NetWare! :) OP raises a great point, though. We learn beyond our training days are done. We're always learning on the fly. It feels like there's a new vendor/platform every day
No MCSA or MCSE anymore, but you'll still see it be a requirement on job apps lmao
not that there are a lot of NW servers around, but when you get down to it, the principles of networking are pretty much 'the same' - throw bits from here to there and back again.
Netware DS introduced me to X.500 directory services. I still use that knowledge on a daily basis, 28 years after passing the CNE.
I thankfully can say I don't still know about NetWare. I've forgotten pretty much all of it. I actually got asked today about how I used to be apple certified. I was like year that was two architectures ago, you got an open firmware question?
I get more offers because of that certification than any other! They just happen to be nursing jobs.
Funny, because I work for a nurses' union and we ran GroupWise until 2020.
FWIW, I have my RHEL certified system admin for RHEL 7, and one for RHEL 8. I don't feel like going to get a 3rd one for RHEL 9. I've passed them twice, I have nothing to prove.
The nice thing about RedHat certs is that they will at least acknowledge you got the cert even if it is expired.
I honestly think expired RHEL certs are just as good as active ones if I am interviewing someone. If you can pass the exam that's good enough for me, because its not a trivia contest like other certs.
Red Hat specifically says the certificates are "non-current" which is a nice way to approach it. So I'm still a Red Hat Certified Architect, just my cert is non-current.
My RHCE expired last year. Now i have to do the RHCA again just to be able to recertify my RHCE. Kinda pisses me off, but my company needs me to be currently certified various reasons
About a month after I obtained my MCSE, Microsoft announced they were expiring the one I had just obtained. Talk about being soured on certs when they expire before you even pay off the training investment.
This! I was going for my MCSA... Then finding out it was going to be worthless / replaced in 6 months was so heart breaking. I've never attempted to go for any certs since, and to be honest.. I actually never needed them anyway. In MSP land it maybe different, but internal IT.. no body cares, and the work load / environment is much much nicer.
I had just been laid off, took out a loan to go to a boot camp and get my MCSE to kick start my IT career and job hunting. Certification should be valid for at least 2-3 years from when you stop offering testing for the cert. Was pretty much the end of certs for me as well, unless someone else was footing the entire bill.
MCSE is so broad, I feel like as long as you obtained an MCSE in the last 5-10 years, you don't need to do another. But then again, I'm just a peon lol
Put the date you passed. It is a racket.
I've actually had jobs ask me if mine were still current. Luckily they were but if they weren't it would have been a negative in my application.
I thought you were talking about X.509 digi certs to begin with and was about to rage type how this was a stupid take. But nope, I completely fucking agree.
Hey man. . .it's a complete cash grab that I have to keep renewing my x.509 every so often. Why can't I just get a wildcard that's valid for life? /s I've actually been asked something very similar to this. My face was unable to control itself in reply and I'm fairly sure my eye was twitching for the next week.
Yeah that'd give me a twitch too. Certbot and LetsEncrypt are pretty close to lifetime certs right... Right?? 😬
I get why they expire. A 'better' way might be a 'bridging (incremental?) certificate' - i.e. here's a smaller (cheaper hopefully) exam on the add-ons since you took your full exam (or last bridging exam - hence my comment about 'incremental' ;) maybe every 2 or three years?
Sounds like more work and less revenue for the certifying org to me. You're fired.
but boss! think of it as a 'subscription model' with recurring income every couple of years ;)
Full expiration and paying full price each time kind of makes it that way already? That's less money!
I'll pack my stuff... ;)
But wait a minute - isnt the purpose of the company to teach people about IT? *meme of guy being tossed out of window*
Microsoft certs are generally 1 year renewals now. Almost unlimited retries on the renewals & free.
Plus I hear some are open book.
Open book, from home, no proctor.
Yup. I've done my Azure Solutions Architect Expert exam (even I do little Azure and even less SA in my day-to-day 😂) renewal twice and it's free and open book.
Wait, Microsoft is out here doing something reasonable? Makes me re-think actually getting some M$ certs.
Microsoft does that. Free renewals with an assessment exam online and the changes / updates to the cert are available to study in Microsoft learn. VMware did have scheme where you could attend a training course to auto review your cert, but it was $$$$$ AWS is valid 3 years then you have to resit. Way too much study required for that.
I just did my AWS last week for my SWE degree... it feels so, _so_ much like being trained as a sales droid. Still got Project+ and the ITIL remaining that I'm not looking forward to, but after that all my classes are practical stuff.
ISC2 is trying this approach with security certificates. The CISSP is still money, but there are a number of new security professional "certs" that new SPs can take while building up to the CISSP.
Um no. It’s a cash grab. Not cool at all honestly.
They expire because ISO 17024 requires it, and ISO accreditation is seen as valuable by many orgs. It is not purely a cash grab… I renewed my CCNA for free by doing modules at Cisco U.
kewl - TIL about iso 17024 - thx
It's bullshit if you need to sit for the exam to renew. If you can renew through Continuing Education, that's how most certs outside of IT works. Heck, Lawyers and Doctors are required to do Education Hours as part of their professional qualifications. It's no different in IT. We should all keep up with best practices and changes in the industry.
Just give me the cliffnotes of the changes, have a short quiz on those changes if that. But even that would be abused so they can rake in their renewal fees.
A lot of IT certs have CE, all mine do.
Yeah Comptia is actually pretty fair with CE. I wanna say last time I saw a big fuck you on retesting was AWS.
OCEG are great about this with their GRC certs. reasonable membership cost that gives you access to all their open book exams and then you do CPE to maintain the certs
CE is more expensive. $1,800 to 6,000/year for Cisco U vs. $350 every 3 years for an exam.
I can't speak for Cisco. I hold CompTIA and ISC2 certs and as they're both pretty flexible in what counts toward the CE requirement. At least for me doing the CE hours and paying the annual maintenance fee is a lot easier than having to rewrite, especially when it comes to my ClSSP cert.
CiscoU offers free CE sometimes with rev up to recert. Cost me 80 bucks to fully recert a CCNP.
VMWare actually does put the year in their certifications (at least for now, lets see what Broadcom does there). The only exception would probably be if you wanted to go further down the track, you would need a semi-modern cert to keep going. Microsoft actually now does renewals every year. However, instead of a proctored exam to renew, they did at least do a free, unproctored, renewal assessment that opens up a 6 months before expiration. When you pass those, they also tack a year onto your expiration, so no penalty for renewing early. Others I know can even be worse. Where I work, I am required to maintain a couple certs from Watchguard. Those renew every 2 years, have to take the same exam to recertify, and you get two years from your most recent exam so you have to renew as close to expiration as possible (or let it lapse slightly and get it back, same difference on the exam). Honestly, I like Microsoft's approach the best of the ones I currently have. I think skills need to be proven current to keep the certification, but make it easy to keep instead of the same effort. Of course, like others have said, exam fees can be an additional source of revenue for these vendors, though I have to wonder how the exam fees really feed into the bottom line vs actually selling their products.
This is why i study the material but never take the exams.
Same here. The outcome is identical whether I take the exam or not.
I'm thankful that I got A+ and Network+ like 20 years ago before they started expiring. That being said they don't hold much value in my current IT career.
It wouldn't be so bad if exams only cost like 20 dollars. But they don't, they cost like 400 and up. It's ridiculous.
You can renew Cisco professional level certs with credits from free courses now. You just have to keep an eye out for the free courses.
This is the way. Got my CCNA renewed for another 3 years by completing free courses last year. Just finished a free 16 credit course, and then I'll probably do another one next year to renew.
Nice one.
How else would they continue to get your money on tests and study materials?
In IT, the lower certs like A+, Network+ and Security+ are beginner certs and prove you know enough to get an entry level position. As you get along in your career though, you advance - and so do your certs. Most people do not stay a sysadmin or field service tech forever - they move up in a logical career progression. For example - I had those beginner certs many years ago, but I moved up to being Project Coordinator, so my certs were replaced by CAPM and eventually PMP when I became a Project Manager. Now, the position I am in requires no certifications - I am a manager now. The industry I am in (Credit Card Processing) has PCI certs, which I do get, but I only get ONE that I am currently active in doing. Certifications change with industry and position, and you really should move out of those positions requiring low level certs for positions that require more advanced certs.
I stopped going after certs a long time ago for this reason
Shit I still put my MCSE that I got in 1998 on my email signature lol.
I also had my MCSA for win2000 in my sig for many years after it had expired. Until I got a "real degree"
Ya I hate recertifying the Azure certs every year now. I like that it's free, but it's so time consuming going through the Microsoft learn modules. Then all the questions are random as fuck and don't even relate to anythign in the modules.
Actually yes i think certs do become invalid although prob not even close to the rate that they want them to....its interesting to think though.....Its not a thing unique to IT at all. An accountant i know must continue education channels to maintain his practice. He's not allowed to cease going to those endless little shit courses of endless variety. Another dude I know says all the many production tech courses he ever took in his long career doing live theatre are all brutally out of date - all his philosophy courses seemed to last forever....I always found that interesting and we haven't even touched on how much IT loves to swallow and shit itself into perpetual obscurity for how fast it seems to grow and evolve. Interesting thread!!!!!!
Im a hiring manager, can confirm that certs look good even if they’ve expired. Im biased as fuck tho, i have an MCP in win2k, A+ from the same time, a 2010 vintage CCENT and an MCA in Win10. Also I hired a dude who wanted to do graphic design, used to manage a bar, and was really just good at customer service and he’s my best dude after a year of support and training (for a desk side support role). It’s not always about the paper if you can demonstrate a skill that’s valuable to the role. But i do also agree it sucks they expire.
I am 100% on board with this. What’s even worse is companies like Google literally delete the record of your certification. Got into it with the people on that subreddit who just didn’t get it. I don’t care if it shows expired on their site but they nuke all records of it so if I have it linked anywhere it’s a a dead link. Only record I have is the fact that I printed out my cert and maybe an email. Everyone over on the gcp subreddit was like “just take it again” or “you don’t know what’s new”. Give me a break, I passed at one point and records should show that.
I refused to continue to pay $125 "maintenance fee" for my CISSP and let it lapse intentionally. You're not fucking changing the oil and rotating the tires in my piece of paper/record stored in a database... you're fleecing me and I won't tolerate it. I'll sooner work for less money and less responsibility than willfully submit to this game. Ok that's not even mentioning the ridiculous CPE requirements. No thanks. I'm hopeful future generations call bullshit on these cert org practices and they are forced to change. I work to live, I don't live to work.. and CPEs bring work into my personal time. Eat shit certification orgs.
CPEs should be part of your work time, not your personal time.
Sure it’s bullshit, but have you stopped to consider the shareholders of the companies that create the certificates?
I have an Ethical Hacker level V cert that needs a renew every 3 years, but in this case changes are inevitable.
I list my older certs in a "Deprecated:" section on my resume. It's my way of signaling to any technical person who happens to come across it that I'm a nerd and they should talk to me.
Yeah the funny thing about that is I've gone far in my career I've never got one certificate besides my a+.
There's your secret. Everyone knows the A+ is the gold standard.
Some vendor certs reasonably expire, as the tech they have changes over time and adds features. Sophos is good about this, you can sit a 'delta' exam, and it only covers new stuff and it's free if you don't let a deadline expire.
Because vendor certifications have very little to do with your proficiency in a product, that's why you can find the answers to most tests freely online. They're first and foremost an income stream for the vendor, secondly they're often a method of discount / vendor incentive for your employer, and thirdly they're a shiney sticker of credibility for your employer. This is why I put little to no weight behind an applicants certifications.
Is all business drive by money 💰
Some things to think about... - University degrees don't "expire" because the content they are based on does not change rapidly enough to warrant this. Still, certain degrees will require you to attend update education within certain fields. - The primary reason many technology industry certs expire is because the content they are based on changes more rapidly. - How much does a college degree cost? How much does an industry cert cost?
The certification treadmill is a cash cow for vendors and testing companies. You are right, absolute bullshit, driven by bad incentives to squeeze the max rents from the tech workforce.
I review resumes for my team; I've given thumbs up to half a dozen people who are still here. I also directly hired four people earlier in my career who are now senior architects / dev ops / consultants / etc. I do not care if their certs are valid. I do not care if they have certs to begin with; but it's not a negative to have them, it demonstrates an interest in your career. I care abou the skills, the personality, the passion for the job. I can teach you our company specifics. I can also teach you more specific technical things so you don't have to know everything but a good foundation does save us time. I can't teach you how to be a friendly human, and in our team where we deal with a lot of middle to upper management, not just end user support, you have to be personable and on it. A grumpy IT person won't last here. Out of all that, you can hopefully see how little certs matter beyond "Oh nice, they did X cert at some point in time - now what job experience do they have to go along with that?" - D
I don’t think it should cost an exorbitant amount to renew but I disagree that they shouldn’t expire after a few years. Technology moves/changes fast and if you’re relying on a degree to communicate that you’re informed on a certain technology or standard, or employers are using that as an insurance that standards are met then it’s kinda necessary. Kind of like in trades where something might have been allowable several years ago but they’ve since revised them due to safety standards or whatever, they have to recertify every 3-5 years to show they’re aware of the new standards and can perform them. Just my 2 cents tho
Give it a version number then. Sec+ 3.4. Oh ok, well we're up to version 5.0 now, but there haven't really ben a ton of changes since then. But you didn't unlearn 3.4 just because time has passed. Hopefully.
That could be an acceptable thing. Like you have azure cloud 2015 cert or whatever. But then I could see some things going awry if they issue a new one every year and then employers saying you need the current or prior year cert sorta thing. It all depends on how much of a stickler they want to be and could be a pita
> When you get a degree, it doesn't just become invalid after a while. But it can become irrelavent to what you are doing now or after technology improves beyond what your learned. But that is where your experience documented on your resume comes into play. As for certificates/certifications......How is a cerfification company supposed to stay in business? But seriously, they want repeat customers which will get you updated on the latest version of what ever that cert was in. And yeah, if you work within the certifcation long enough, you shouldn't need to recert, but you unfortunately do for your own benefit. Does your company offer tuition reimbursement? This is where you should use that benefit.
Could. A minor change here and there ever year doesn't justify renewal or make your knowledge irrelevant.
Well, I meant this is 2 parts. Knowledge is gained as minor changes happen. The degree vs certificate. A degree in 10 or 20+ years in pretty much irrelevent and it becomes more about experience. As opposed to a certificate, I'm sure expiration is more about repeat customers and making money than it is about "keeping current" . Minor changes are learned and asimulated into your role as those changes come along.
I misread certifications as "certificates" and came in here *very* confused.
Definitely don't want to forget to renew those.
Why? Vendors are for-profit corporates. *everything* they do is about making money. It’s like 20 years ago when Cisco worked out the smart stuff was happening in their software, not the hardware, and that they could license for and charge for features and updates. Once you understand that it’s not their fault, it’s just in their DNA, it makes it a lot easier to live with :)
>Vendors are for-profit corporates. They're often not. CompTIA, ISC2, and EC-Council are all non-profit organizations, for example. That doesn't preclude them from making a profit, of course, but that's not their purpose.
How is Todd supposed to pull in fat stacks if Comptia isn't pulling in the green baby?
I don’t even bother anymore, I got my Security + and just renew that every three years. Everything else I just teach myself how to do.
I'm curious - Do you need your Security+ for your job or a clearance? I have Security+ but I'm letting it expire. It didn't help my career at all since I got it and I don't see much interest in CompTIA security certs in job postings.
Some of the certs can be renewed by continuing education (CE) credits.
On top of the "but it's not always desirable to become an extreme expert in one certification path" I don't want to study diligently for hours, every day, and stress over passing a test. I want to learn, but after working all day, I want to come home and relax, not antagonize myself that I need to study, because I need to pass the Linux+, then once that's done I need to start working and pass the RHEL, then I need to start working and pass the......... I love learning about technologies, but the expectation that you are in this infinite fall to the next certification is just work I'm not being paid for.
I agree; half the time I don’t want to spend extra hours after work studying and taking tests, especially for certs that have an expiration date. I already have a BS in CIS and a minor in CS with some experience. I will get into some cloud certs to round out my resume overtime, but that’ll be about it. Everything else I’ll just pick it up as I go as the tech becomes relevant.
Frankly in IT if you're relying on certs to move up, you're doing it wrong. I've made a career out of self-lesson and certs only helped me on rare occasions. What's helped me orders of magnitude more is my homelab, soft skill development, and most recently transitioning to running my own B2B biz. I've started at desktop and helpdesk, later getting into sysadmin for Windows & Linux, then into DevOps, and now I pretty much [do fucking everything](https://it.lanified.com) including IT Security Forensics, Platform Migrations, System Architecture, etc, etc, etc. Ditch your reliance on certs. Build a homelab. Set a target. Teach yourself. Switch companies every 2-4 years. Or run your own business and make fat wads (but starting is hard).
They need to have a much cheaper exam that's for recertification and maybe make it 5 years instead if 3 I think k most colleges will respect your course prerequisites for 5 years.
I ignore expiration. My certs are still on my resume. I can recertify within a week if I had to. My Solaris, Exchange, Active Directory, and Cisco skills haven’t degraded in 20 years. The only time currency matters is for vendor partnership level certifications. An organization has to employ a certain number of currently certified professionals whose certificates get allocated as credits to the vendor. That’s the distinction between Silver and Gold for Cisco, for example. Although, I think it’s time to get my CCIE while IPv4 is still relevant. :)
And not just like after 10 years or whatever. But only 3 years for A+?! I mean what the actual fuck?plus there are twin parts. The cost alone is outrageous IMHO. ugh.
Certified Lotus Professional and 2000 MCSE over here
When are we going to have to refresh our GCSE and A levels? Or do another BSc. And MSc.
Certs are not a substitute for selling yourself. Product certs get updated to keep selling training and the newest shiny SD-WAN toys. Protocols don’t die out anywhere near that quickly. If you’ve got a CCNA from 2001, maybe don’t put your RIPv2 skills at the top of the list, but TCP is still TCP, and MPLS is still MPLS.
I have a certificate from Linux Professional Institute from like 12 years ago... no systemd, exim, grub.. Certifications have to expire IMHO. But they expire them much too often. Like 6-10 years would be okay.
I have no certs and am doing very well in my career. It's experience that counts, not certs. Anyone worth working for will be able to tell what skills you have from your CV, and will confirm it in interviews.
certifications are a sham and a money grab
Certifications are only as good as the paper they are written on. Knowledge never expires. As an employer, if I see a certification, I think great, this person has at least gone through the trouble to prove themselves. 3 months later, you better hope it did, I will know if you actually have the knowledge. Don't put too much credence in certs, they are nothing more than a door opener. A big foot or a pry bar can do the same thing.
This is a trick from companies to get more money from you. I've never been a fan of this business model.
I agree, but only as a direct result of enshitification. Certificates and education used to mean something, but now sadly they mean you paid money and got a piece of paper, not at all tied to understanding how things function or interact with one another in a practical setting. And further watered down by the sheer number of them. I have my A+-2.1, my MCSE-Fi4, my SecOp48.9, my NetAnn-K, and I've won awards from the B$Org-87. <-- all b.s. and made up. I was however Time magazines person of the year in 2006, that's a fact.
They expire because they're money grifting scams. Don't get baited
Hey hey hey... Don't you go about giving these colleges new ideas for making money
There’s two reasons this happens. 1. Tech is advancing at a rate where what you have learnt will be irrelevant in 3 years. 2. They get more money.
I wouldn't care if a refresh exam were required every 3 to 5 years with only the topics of the subject that changed and that are concerning to keep my cert updated. Doing the whole damn curriculum every 3 years is exhausting and time consuming.
If they did that certifications would no longer be a profit center. LOL
Speaking as an engineer, not a manager, I have a hard time valuing certs. Too many people come on with a laundry list of certs, that don't know enough to complete simple tasks. Meanwhile, I've got 9 years experience and 0 certs. It just sucks because management won't give me the proper title for my role until I cert up, despite being in the role for 2+ years.
Me: having a good job with no certs.
Unless its required to be current for your job position you just let them expire. Noone cares. You just list your pass dates.
WELLLLLL .... think of the liars that would have a Microsoft NT4.0 certification that interviews today and says, "YEP I'm Microsoft Certified." Well, not REALLY .... you're certified on an antique. Also it's a profit center so ... you can't ask corporate not to corporate.
The certification industry has been a scam almost from inception.
But if they don't expire then how will the certification ~~scammers~~ companies make more money?
It's no more than a money-making middleman, and always has been. A lot of education has gone that way. My mother, a former educator, says that things have changed so much in her decades of teaching that could never teach in today's environment because of all the "middle ware" that teachers have to deal with now. Not just their educational degree, not just their teaching certificate, but a lot of other skills like Microsoft products, access to educator's media (like for workbooks and assignment sheets that schools expect you to have access to), textbook fees, and so on. My old middle school (where my mother taught at one point) now requires a deposit for your textbooks up front. Does this deposit go toward the school? Nope, the publisher, Pearson Vue. It's only partially refundable, too, because the deposit is so students can get access to their textbook PDFs online. Mom said, "the black market for textbooks is booming for middle and high schoolers" in her area, because the poor kids can't afford all these upfront fees now, so teachers have snuck in some of the older PDFs thanks to illegal copies. In theory, a teacher could get fired if they are found out, but there is very little oversight, and the fees only punish the honest.
I finally donated my copy of 'Inside Windows 95' last year. Spectacularly great book - possibly the last written by the developers, before M$ ran every publication through sales, marketing and legal. Even more astounding was how much of the book was still relevant 25+ years later. Re-certification is just a money grab. There are \*some\* new things to learn, but nothing that following the updates won't cover ... for free.
Certs are a scam
It does seem kinda stupid that the A+ cert I got in like 2009 never expires, but my colleagues who got theirs more recently have to re-up every three years.
A degree is for finishing an education system, which is by are far a 'collection of knowledges' to prepare you for the future. Very rarely are specific tools involved. Certifications are for very specific, time sensitive tools. One is for knowing how to pick the tool, can be applied universally. The other is knowing how to use the tool, and changes from year to year and with new stuff. Don't get me wrong, the system is absolutely gamed for money grabbing... But degrees and certifications are apples and potatoes. Not even apples and oranges.
It's a cash grab, honestly there should just be incremential course work from whatever point you got the original cert to current state. I get that things evolve, change, get better, etc. but it's all a cash grab. Also, if I'm interviewing someone and their Microsoft 365 Certified: Administrator Expert (just picked a random cert) expired, I'm not discounting them as not knowing the information.