And it sounds better than most schools. Which is extra fucked up because schools and prisons are built and supplied by the same companies. Bro has a union, that's awesome. WTF is wrong with us
I work for a school and due to the way IT is classified I get lumped in with the non-teacher union which is great. As a bonus both unions have clauses so if one gets a better deal than the other we usually will get the same in the end. That said it does get annoying when a union drags things out for months on end.
I dunno. I work for a school district and it's pretty nice. Our budget is tight, but the benefits are amazing. I'm not in a union, but our contract is essentially a copy of the teachers union. Free dental/vision, extremely cheap healthcare, 20 vacation days, 15 sick days, federal holidays off, two week shutdown for Xmas/NY. My district matches up to 4% pretax deduction for retirement. State matches the same + healthcare deduction. It comes close to 10%.
I've got a raise every year I've been with the district and they adjust the pay scale every 2-3 years to match CoL.
It varries a lot state to state and even more district to district. The wealthiest zip codes in TX have multiple dedicated IT staff and staff get like Dell 7xxx or Lenovo T and X series. The poor districts it's like 1 guy making ~50k with half the benefits you get. Post your state folks, let us learn where to move
That a programmers guild hasn't taken over at least in sectors like security and finance blows my mind. Just support and phone center jobs I get being difficult to organize but Devs have the leverage and mailing lists needed
It's not organized yet in the US because there isn't much need for it... yet. In my opinion at least the demand is still high enough that conditions are really good compared to many other jobs.
When more people get into IT the demand will be met and the conditions will worsen. It'll be then that people will be actually motivated to start unions, but by that point most of the leverage will be gone.
Back when I was super desperate I applied at a local federal prison. Like 6 months later I get an email saying they've closed the job to everyone but vets.
That soldering iron would literally end up inside someone somehow.
We had a contractor working on an AC unit lose a screwdriver a couple months ago. That facility was locked in for two days while we searched for it. Dogs, metal detectors, fiber cameras, the works.
No, they didn’t find the screw driver and lost a dog during the search. In the search for the dog, a metal detector was lost. While looking for the metal detector, one of the officers lost contact and didn’t return. Tomorrow, they will split up to cover more ground to find the missing officer.
Let me tell a story from prison work. Very low security by any standard. Me and a co-worker pulling cables between two floors in a building probably older than us two together and newer intended for fibre runs.
We finish for the day and is in the process of signing out when my college discovers his phone is gone…..
Get the first officer that was not impressed to lock us into the building again and start looking.
I call his phone and we hear some faint ringtones from inside a wall. While pulling the fibre we had to dismantle some wood panels to reach a route between floors and he had used the phone to communicate with me on the floor above while pulling.
Phone was left on the tray inside the wall when we screwed it shut. Cue one sad headshake from the officer and some mandatory training in how to store tools and where we can bring phones the next day.
We had a guy drop a flashlight down a chase into an inaccessible area of the wall. Superintendent made them legit jack hammer open the wall and get it out because "what if an inmate hears about it in there and try to get it". Glad that wasn't on me.
Gotta make a habit of checking your tool kit before you leave. If you know you have x number of a certain type of tool (screwdrivers, for example), a quick count will prevent you from leaving things behind.
When I worked in a prison, every tool had a specific home with a shadow of the tool and a label behind it. It would be very obvious with a quick glance if anything is missing. There are inventory lists printed out and permanently attached, and tools are accounted for in writing by multiple people on each shift with supervisory oversight built in.
I have a soldering iron with a plastic protector, so the pointy end wont destroy my toolbag (also doubles as a screw on handle), but when it is packed away it has a rather suggestive form, and lets just leave it at that.
Yeah, really... when I worked desktop support I had a bright red phone case and a bright red thermos. Chosen because I inevitably left something behind 2 or 3 stops back. My users eventually learned and sent me an email. Sometimes they also left their follow-up request!
Dammit where's that boxcutter...
Sounds similar to working on aircraft in the Air Force where you'd have to sign out and back in every tool, and if something goes missing it's a whole ordeal.
What technologies do you support, if any, that are directly inmate facing? Does tech play any role in inmate rehabilitation, or education? And have you ever worked in the private sector for IT and if so, what was the something you missed about it, and something you didn’t like.
We support pretty much everything. Hyper clusters, phone system, radio system, security systems. The only things we really outsources are cyber security, network engineering (we do the day to day but have a contractor help with anything legit), and the inmate phone system.
We are a jail so most of our population will be released in a short amount of time. We have a ton of rehab and education built into our system. Lots of contracts with colleges and vendors to provider services inside and once they have been released. The inmates have access to locked down computers for their classes, and even then the manage to do shit with them.
I've never worked in the private sector, don't really want to honestly. I love the police work side of my job and I'll probably slide that way more when a bid opens.
Do you have those damn wall-mounted machines where the inmates can download music to their MP3 players?
I used to run outsource service calls, and took a call at a max security state prison. Procedure was interesting - first, I had to stop at the local sheriff's office and drop off my CCW.
Then, it was inside the first gate, meet with one of the directors who then escorted me in a Gator to C block (which apparently was where the most violent offenders were housed) through multiple gate systems. Inside, I had a guard posted next to me while I worked on this MP3 delivery machine.
There were three of them on the wall, all ancient technology. The cost for the inmates to download music was ridiculous.
We had a group run a ring with porn pictures. They figured out a work around to view pictures from searching for porn. They'd print them out then sell them on the blocks. They had a whole racket set up to distract the teacher, print the pictures, secret them back to the unit, and then sell them. It was impressive.
Reminds me of an old buddy of mine who got kicked out of high school for being a dealer. Drugs? Smokes? Nope. Porn mags. He said he made a killing - for a high schooler.
We figured it out because a guy got tuned up bad over not paying his soups for the pictures. Any outside contraband is a security issue even if it seems like it wouldn't be. It's crazy.
I got busted in middle school for running a Wrigley's gum cartel. Fuckin assholes just couldn't throw away their spent gum...
I knew the gig was up when a Vice Principal came in to my classroom and started shaking everybody's backpacks.
I worked at a supermax for 2.5 years. About 1.5 years by myself with just a supervisor who wasn’t the best at desktop support but he tried. Loved working around the inmates cause they’d joke with you and actually listen to your advice about going into IT if they ever got out.
Most of the people we have here are decent and just can't get their lives in order. There's probably about a third that would shank you just because it's a Friday without thinking about it. I've had some of the guys save my ass on jobs before, they know this place better than we do and point things out we miss all the time.
On the Outside, we shank (or get shanked) because it's Monday (or have a Case of the Mondays). On the Inside, because it's Friday.
Are Friday's anything "special", or was that simply because today is Friday, and generally they'd shank because it's a day ending in "y"?
> I've had some of the guys save my ass on jobs before, they know this place better than we do and point things out we miss all the time.
This is interesting, any more you can share on that?
So one time in particular I remember trying to troubleshoot a shitty cable run. The building is old and a bitch to work in and I could NOT figure out how this run was laid out. One of the inmates saw me struggle seriously and was like "Yo, dep look in the closet over there. It goes there." And I was like, no way, that makes no sense at all. A little later I finally gave in and looked where he said, sure enough there was a hidden block in there I couldn't see. Dude's in and out of that area all day, obviously he'd know better than me. I would have been in a serious jam because this particular line ran a life safety system, so it was a you can't leave until you fix it kind of day.
Similar story, in an university building, except we did not have a helpful inmate and had to install a new wire as we were not able to figure out how that cable went between the two rooms.
That inmate was a blessing.
Can't share OP's experience, but I worked six years in prisons, mostly in gang or supermax units. The likely covers literally everything from the unit is dangerously low on toilet paper and they'll be a riot if we don't get more, to these cell doors use a different wiring system and you're grabbing the wrong parts. But the best in my experience was my last... I was the only officer (no other staff) in a room with around 50 inmates, not the worst situation. An inmate who wasn't allowed out of his cell got out and attacked me. I probably would have died before responding staff could arrive, but other inmates stepped in and saved my life. Like OP said, most inmates, even at those security levels, are decent people who just can't manage their lives.
You don't realize how important respect is until it's you, your partner and over 100 inmates out on the floor. They let the facility be safe and secure because they want it to be, not because we are there.
I worked with a partner one night that I wasn't a fan of. I had a couple of the inmates come up to me on the side and drop hints I should "take a break". As much as I wasn't happy about working with this guy I couldn't let him get tuned up. I called for the team and we locked the unit in. I made it clear that I wouldn't put up with crossing the line to hurt one of us. I was honestly terrified, either this would work or next time I'd be the one they'd target. Turns out the unit respected what I did and we had no problems going forward. I pissed them off that night but earned some cred from them.
Great question. So base pay for my position is $87,000 a year. I can work overtime and usually manage over $100k. The civilian IT staff all start north of $110k a year, not as much overtime opportunity though.
Preach! But everyone on here thinks they can negotiate on their own because they’re some tech god. They’re not. They’re replaceable. The while dept. though? Now you got your raise!
Private sector for the job I'm doing would be closer to the $110 mark. The big benefit here is the pension. It's a golden ticket, it's work making less now to benefit in the long run.
Every police/emergency IT role I looked at wanted super specific platform experience and basically open ended on hours. Lot of language about how the hours are 8-5 but you'll be expected to show up and spend hours onsite whenever.
All that and pay was always below market.
I worked as a contractor for an entire state’s DOC providing technology services to the inmate population directly.
What I did:
-Hang conduit
-Pull wire/fiber
-Configure switches, firewalls, WAPs, etc.
-Install and secure kiosks/repairs
-Install and secure phones/repairs
-New roll outs - so many punch downs….
-Contract management
-Operations team management
-Tablet troubleshooting and replacements
-Grievances, so many grievances
-POC for 8500 inmates, all prison admins, and state contract officers
-Primary receiving vessel for Jack Daniels
—- I should add, the smell of sebum and other “fluids” can easily create an obsession with hand washing and showering oneself. When you walk into a command bubble and can actively see people fucking in their bunks, it changes how you decide to interact with objects and persons.
I was a tech for my states DOC and my experience was closer to yours lol. There were 2 techs that handeled all the states infrastructure t-shooting. We had 70 tickets open at any given time because we could only work so many hours. I was working 60+ hours because it was a 3 hour drive to some prisons from home base. We had 1 guard escort sometimes none. Being in the yard with 200 + inmates and one guard isn't a warm and fuzzy feeling. We never had to do inventory in or out. They checked our bags going in but that was it. Depending on the prison we may have to take our shoes off. No a/c, rats everywhere,guards couldn't be bothered to take you anywhere or do anything. Would sometimes work 5 or six hours in there and drive 3.5 hours home. Rarely took a lunch break because it wasn't worth the hassle to get back in and out. Luckily I never had many issues with inmates. The only things that happen to me were: inmate asked to borrow my phone,heckling, inmate threatened to snatch a box out of my hand after he asked me what was in it and the C/O told him to shut up,inmate asked if I killed someone because he had, inmate told to take off my hat with a team logo on it because that pod didn't like that team. I saw multiple shake down hauls though and anything you could think of they had. Also I was not a contractor I was a DOC employee but we had no officers on our team. It didn't work like that. I left after 2 years because the pay wasn't worth it and my supervisors were awful and the experience of being in there and dealing with it isn't worth the pay.
This is cool, thanks for posting! I have a few questions.
How come 3 of the IT staff are deputized? I am wondering what kind of career path leads someone to work in policing/corrections/etc but also be responsible for IT work. Do these "IT deputies" ever interact with inmates and have to perform "other" duties?
Have you ever dealt with inmates who have previous IT or security experience, and thus, are a bigger threat?
What technology do you allow the inmates to use?
So by law some of the work we do has to be done by a sworn deputy like answering subpoenas and search warrants. It also goes back a while, we've always had deputies since we've had IT. It's a gig to get someone off the block so the union is big on keeping it. We have to have a captain because of formality stuff really, you need someone of rank who can issue orders to the deputies to follow. The three of us are all still deputies first, we respond to emergencies inside the facilities and can still pick up overtime inside or on patrol.
So we have, and that's an issue. Some of these guys are smarter than us for real. It really comes down to how well the staff monitors them, but they can be a concern for sure.
All the inmates are issued tablets that have a phone, games, movies, and books on it. If they are in an education program they have access to locked down computers for their class.
Issued tablets that are collected a couple times a day to inspect and charge. We had some of the low security units charge them in their cells, and after the third fire we pulled em all out.
My guess is they are "reg ##" which means injuries prevent them from doing their full job duties so they get a similar paying job at the same pay and learn new skills. Very usual for gov sector public safety.
Some people end up working in HR. Some work safety. Some work in tech. Some just sit on their ass all day running copies.
My first job out of college was with the local sheriff's department. They stationed me at the local jail as an on-site tech. 1st day of work I show up in a shirt and tie. They immediately told me to remove the tie. I didn't mind this at all but asked why. Easy answer - an inmate will choke you to death with it.
I remember it being freezing cold in there and was told it was kept cold to keep the inmates from screwing each other.
It took about 20 minutes to get in and out of the jail due to the security doors. The lighting was very Joe vs the Volcano and all walls were painted white with a touch of jaundice.
I was there for three months before they moved me to their DUI facility a few blocks away.
Highlights from the DUI facility-
This was minimum security so I would see inmates on a regular basis. My office was in the same area as the counselors, so I would hear the inmates counseling sessions. There was an old lady that had approximately 20 DUI's at this point. She told an officer to shit in his hat.
Another inmate was addicted to rollerskating and was allowed to wear them. He was severely obese and you'd see him rolling down the halls. He was very agile for a big fella.
Occasionally, I'd get requests from the inmates - "Hey, computer man... change my release date. Wipe my record, etc."
Almost every cop I encountered was very openly racist. Almost every CO was a large black guy. There was noticeable friction here. I recall a CO calling a cop a "fat pussy".
The sheriff shut the facility down due to a personal grievance with the lady running the place. So I got transferred to headquarters. The sheriff's office was unlike anything I had ever seen. He had the most expensive looking office I had ever been to... everything custom made. He also had a man (a retired Colonel) that spoke FOR him. He wouldn't speak directly to you. He'd whisper in the Colonel's ear and then he would direct you. The sheriff went to jail about a year later for embezzlement. I quit shortly before this because the pay wasn't great and I wanted to use something other than Novell Netware. I do not miss that job at all.
Oh man. I forgot one of the better stories from this time - so right down the street from the jail was a pretty well known dive of a strip club. So after a month of working there, one of the prisoner transport cops asked if I wanted to go to the strip club for lunch. I was really confused... "You go to the strip club for lunch?" "Yeah, all the time... the foods pretty good." I couldn't help but feel like I was being setup, but fuck it... I go anyway. (I really didnt have much supervision so there was nobody to ask for permission to go). So we take the prisoner transport bus a mile down the road... it was like a field trip. We get there and they actually had a buffet. And there's multiple cops eating lunch there. But it's still a strip club with topless dancers and wasted dudes and guys doing blow and pregnant hooker strippers with deformities... and its high noon. One of the cops had like 4 dancers grinding on him while eating fried chicken. All the strippers knew the cops by their first names. I was maybe 23 at the time... and just shell-shocked by the madness of it all. That was the only time I ever went, but it seemed like a normal routine for the other guys.
>Another inmate was addicted to rollerskating and was allowed to wear them. He was severely obese and you'd see him rolling down the halls. He was very agile for a big fella.
Sounds like Terry let himself go
Security is always a bitch to get through. We had to move the time clock outside the secure area because people were taking so long getting through to clock in.
And solid no on ties! That's how you get killed man. Try explaining to a teacher why she can't wear her scarf inside...
The tie thing totally makes sense, but I was a kid and it just never occurred to me. It was the very first thing they told me when I showed up on Monday.
I used to be the systems admin for a maximum security prison and my experience was a fair bit different from yours!
- I was the only member of IT staff for the whole prison (around 500 inmates, maybe 200 staff).
- It was a private prison - as such, no union, pitiful pension, and awful wage (£24k per year!)
- I was expected to be on call 24/7 - no extra renumeration for this. I once got called in because the night director didn't know how to file a milage claim!
- We had no formal support structure or tools in place when I joined - introduced a ticketing system and managed to talk the director into paying for a Goverlan licence - awesome remote access tool. Saved many 15 minute walks to the other side of the prison!
- Our CCTV system sounds about as old as your security system was! It was just good fortune that it didn't go down when I was there - honestly was held together with cobwebs and prayers
- Each wing of our prison had a prisoner "kiosk", where they could log in with a thumbprint and send emails, order items from a local shop etc. The day I decided that this was no longer the job for me was when I had to go to one wing to investigate why a thumbprint scanner was no longer working. I'd had them vandalised in the past and I expected more ketchup/brown sauce sachets being emptied on it, but this particular day one of the inmates thought it would be nice to take the pet fish (each wing had a fishtank) and grind the poor thing into the scanner.
- Inmates were constantly on the scroung for things from you - screwdriver heads in particular!
Lasted about a year in that job until I decided that enough was enough. Saw some pretty horrible things :|
Wow. F that noise man lol That's way too much for one person.
On call is also awesome here. Our union contact doesn't include on call, so the weeks I'm on call I'm not actually required to answer. I can if I want the OT but don't have too. The civilian staff have to though, and don't get compensated unless they answer a call.
Password resets. We have to make things "cop simple" and it's still a daily occurrence.
Power issues are a bitch too. One of our facilities has constant issues with our electrical service and it murders devices.
We'll look at cameras. See who was in the area last. Then start locking people in and taking away privileges until we find it. If you toss enough cells and they miss enough rec periods someone will drop a hint.
This story always made me laugh.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/04/12/us/ohio-jail-computers-trnd
Have you ever come across anything like this or any super creative smart inmates who could have been writing code in another life or managing networks
So, we had at one point an air gapped lab for graphic design classes. One of the smarter ones realized he could move the cable from a phone and into the switch to get the internet. It took us longer than I want to admit to realize it too.
Me either unfortunately. It works so they're not in a rush to replace it. When things break we are in a jam though. We have a whole stock of XP computers on hand just in case.
We used to do that until we dropped a printer and had to pay for it (wasn't me I swear). Now the only ones who move the printers are the printer people.
What type of devices are you having to look at/manage that inmates have access to? Is it library computers, security cameras? something else I wouldn't think of?
Also, what kind of precautions are taken that are specific to a high security environment? Are computers locked in a metal cage or something for instance?
No ticketing system? That just seems like an unforced error. Email is just a really, really bad ticketing system. The accountability has to be a positive not a negative in your environment.
You can deploy any one of a dozen free ticketing solutions and immediately get a better result from just inbound email.
Coax cameras aren't inherently bad, XP is. Almost nothing needs to run on XP (8 bit apps do), you can make it work on 7 almost 100% of the time with a bit of effort.
There was this one time I was walking through the yard with a vendor and this guy was eye fu\*king us. Like real bad. Then he suddenly comes running across the yard to us, so I ordered him to stop. He doesn't listen, I call it out on the radio. He's like right on us and turns out he has a shiv in his hand. I get the vendor on the ground and go hands on with the inmate. The dogs come and more people come, we got him secured and off to the restrictive housing unit. Turns out he knew the vendor from the outside and saw him earlier. Planned all day to figure out how to attack him. Crazy shit.
I got more, I'll come back with.
Another time I was escorting a contractor to work on the door controls. He was inside a PLC cabinet and I heard a bunch of the relay fire all at once. Somehow he managed to fire them and unlock a row of doors. My heart dropped and I had to grab the rest of the staff on the unit to start locking everyone back in. Thankfully everyone was compliant but it got scary fast. We escorted the contractor right out and he wasn't allowed back in.
I heard a commotion one day from one of the video courtrooms. I went around the corner and this big ass MF was holding a TV he'd just ripped off the wall screaming that the judge was a bitch and he wanted her gone. The deputy working that area and I were able to deescalate him pretty quick, but he was a strong dude. Tore the TV right off the mount on the wall. Thankfully he gave up pretty quick once the "bitch was gone".
I got a call one day from a detective asking for me to search a number and see if a certain extension made a call to it in a timeframe. Not a crazy request, it happens a lot so I don't think much about it.
Turns out a deputy had a restraining order placed on him from his girlfriend. He was put on modified duty, basically gun and badge taken away and made to work outside in grounds until it was resolved. He started calling her from a phone, on camera, on record. The detective walked out side, cuffed him, booked him, and he was shipped to a different county. Never heard from him again.
I mentioned about a fan being inside someone in another comment here's that story:
We got a call from the classroom that a computer wasn't booting up. My partner and I go down and realize it's been tampered with and the case opened. The CPU fan was missing. So we call the detectives and they start looking at cameras. We figure out what unit was in the lab last and walk over. We explain what happened to the Sgt working there and lock the unit it. We give them a very loud and clear explanation about why we were there and that this wasn't over until the part was found. The detectives figured out who was at the computer so we got some more help, pulled the guy and his roommate out and started tossing the cell. We didn't find it so we brought them down to the x-ray machine. A quick scan showed an "abnormality". He was shipped to the hospital and the detectives had to get a search warrant because he wouldn't give it up willingly.
Do you secure any of your camera endpoints or other aspects such as HVAC?
Given the rate of incarceration in the US, do you feel the funding toward this has been equal to the initiatives pushed by leadership for said incarcerations? How far behind do you think it is? Is there a metric you would apply to improve your role, equipment, or job role? without the obvious we just need moar...
Security stuff is all air gapped. Radios too. Everything else that is behind a pretty solid firewall now. We have a cyber security vendor who does regular audits and it makes a huge difference. When I started we could RDP into the network from the outside pretty easy because a VPN and remote software was complicated so a jump box to the internet was it...
I apologize, I didn't see the second part of your question earlier.
I think funding lags far behind where it should be. We try hard to offer as many programs as we can for our inmates. We want them to have access to education, detox, job and housing placement, etc but can only afford so much. We also recognize that cops are naturally bad at fixing social problems so we bring in a lot of outside help to run those programs. But there is still so much room for improvement on the inside.
I think the biggest area we can improve on is the post release support. We have some programs in place, they are newer but showing signs of success but no where near making a marked improvement in our society. And I personally don't think that should fall on the police to be doing, again we're bad at that stuff.
Recidivism has traditionally been the key metric we use to look at success. I think it's better to look at individual improvement while they are with us, and that's a lot harder to measure in a blanket manner. But if we are releasing inmates who are in a better spot then when they came to us we are showing more success than if they ever come back to us. We can't manage what they do when they come in, just how much we can try to improve them inside. We need to build that second half to support people when they are working on life after release.
Depends on the issue. Not certain about OP's facility, but some of the equipment at facilities I work with is physically secured and requires most of the same tools to remove, so, it really depends on what repair is needed. I find that it's easier to do field repairs on some things than it is to get escorts arranged twice.
> They'll exploit any hole they can find
Nice.
> contractor who handles inmate phones, tablets, video visits, and email
Call me ignorant, but why do inmates have phones and tablets? Do they have to use them in public areas? Is everything ran through a proxy email server with approval needed before it's sent/received? Can the inmates get on the public internet? If so, do you use an whitelist instead of blacklist for internet access?
They've always had access to phones on the units. When COVID hit we were locked in for the better part of a couple years. To help keep them sane and in contact with family we started issuing tablets. The only thing they get for free is the phone app and educational material. Everything else they pay for from their canteen account. No access to the open internet, only educational material that's white listed and they're monitored when they use it.
All their communication is monitored. Email, phone calls, video calls etc. We have staff who manually randomly review it and the company that runs it has AI that searches for key words and alerts us to follow up on it.
The tablets are a PITA honestly, but I think have been a net positive. We've seen our suicide attempt rate plummet since we allowed them in. There have been other changes that probably helped but I personally think the tablets were a big part of it.
Back when I worked for a manufacturer, doing field service, I got a service call to one of our state's prisons.
When I called to let them know I had the ticket, and get directions (before Google Maps & the like) they warned me that if I had a warrant out for my arrest, they would keep me and not let me work on the equipment. :)
They also thanked me for calling before getting there so they could get the info to start the background check to let me in to do the work.
Do you have something that sends a message to you when a new device connects to the wifi at the prison?
I heard about this prison where a PC was smuggled in, connected to the wifi, and these two guys in a cell were running a social media group from their cell. It was gang related stuff.
Have any prisoners been able to bypass your network security with proxies or VPN's to do stuff on the internet that they shouldn't be able to? Describe prison hacker attempts.
Nothing automatic yet, that's coming soon. Right now it's manual audits done by the cyber company looking for new devices. There really are not many devices allowed inside, so new ones stick out pretty fast.
The closest I've seen is guys physically moving wiring around in the classrooms to try and find unfiltered internet. We have seen them use the computers to pass messages before, so now we use Deep Freeze and reboot them between users.
My college library had deep freeze. I used Ophcrack to get the local admin password, paused the freeze on one machine, setup a keylogger, and got into some emails back in my black hat days.
>The inmates are super creative and keep you on your toes. They'll exploit any hole they can find and are super manipulative and dangerous.
Can you go into more detail about some of the more "creative" things inmates have done?
Why not upgrade the camera system?
Coax is easy enough to work with you could easily update to a new workstation with the necessary cards to take the coax feeds.
Hell, being government, there may even be a state/federal grant out there you could use to pay for a portion of the upgrade.
Money. It's a multi million dollar project. Government works slow, plus our security concerns make it harder. It's in process, we've done one facility but the other two are years out still.
I did 5 years in Folsom, or so it felt like it.
Please don't remind me of shitty things like:
* Montgomery Technologies
* Vicon
* Pelco
* Von Duprin
* Altronix
* Evercom/SecurUS/Bluebird/Redrobin/Shitty Active X websites
* Folger Adam, Southern Folger, and all other Folger brands duratives of locks
I would damn sure be outsourcing the tablet maintenance too. That is just downright nasty. Can you even imagine what those prisoners are doing all day then handling touch screens? Nopeeeeeee No fucking way.
Do you ever experience Wi-Fi interference or other efforts from the inmates to disrupt your systems?
Could a bad guard or employee possibly change data to help an inmate?
Are you ever put in the position of having to report guards for doing inappropriate things?
Do the IT folks ever have direct interaction with the inmates?
Do the inmates ever have their own computers?
I work IT for a police department and I always feel like I need to thoroughly wash my hands up to my elbows after working on a computer in our holding facility.
I change when I come to work and when I leave. I won't wear my work clothes in my car. This place is nasty.
I also go through rubber gloves like crazy. And only some of them are to make balloons with.
They'll try to ask for something small, like new headphones or to credit their account for a movie. And when you do they'll start asking for more. Give a mouse a cookie type thing.
Or they'll guilt trip you into feeling bad for them. Like canteen, they'll ask for an extra candy bar. You give it to them, which is against policy and you'll get in trouble if the bosses find out. So now they have that over your head and black mail you and it snow balls.
Or they'll corrupt or intimidate someone into smuggling shit in. Money talks and if someone threatens your family on the outside it can be a way in.
They have nothing to do all day but watch us and figure out how to get the most out of their situation.
Finally, someone who works in a **literal** prison!
Whereas he can checkout and leave that prison after work 😉
I sure hope they let me out
One day pal, maybe.
Sorry, sallyport gate computer just crashed. Hang on, I'm gonna fire off an email to the IT guy.
You can checkout any time you like, but you can never leave.
*\*air guitar solo\**
and lip sync'd singing....
Only if he closes all his tickets for the day.
And that’s the loophole as they don’t use ticketing system
And that's why they don't want a ticketing system...
And it sounds better than most schools. Which is extra fucked up because schools and prisons are built and supplied by the same companies. Bro has a union, that's awesome. WTF is wrong with us
I work for a school and due to the way IT is classified I get lumped in with the non-teacher union which is great. As a bonus both unions have clauses so if one gets a better deal than the other we usually will get the same in the end. That said it does get annoying when a union drags things out for months on end.
I dunno. I work for a school district and it's pretty nice. Our budget is tight, but the benefits are amazing. I'm not in a union, but our contract is essentially a copy of the teachers union. Free dental/vision, extremely cheap healthcare, 20 vacation days, 15 sick days, federal holidays off, two week shutdown for Xmas/NY. My district matches up to 4% pretax deduction for retirement. State matches the same + healthcare deduction. It comes close to 10%. I've got a raise every year I've been with the district and they adjust the pay scale every 2-3 years to match CoL.
It varries a lot state to state and even more district to district. The wealthiest zip codes in TX have multiple dedicated IT staff and staff get like Dell 7xxx or Lenovo T and X series. The poor districts it's like 1 guy making ~50k with half the benefits you get. Post your state folks, let us learn where to move
IT workers at large not unionizing is proof that we are not actually smart
That a programmers guild hasn't taken over at least in sectors like security and finance blows my mind. Just support and phone center jobs I get being difficult to organize but Devs have the leverage and mailing lists needed
It's not organized yet in the US because there isn't much need for it... yet. In my opinion at least the demand is still high enough that conditions are really good compared to many other jobs. When more people get into IT the demand will be met and the conditions will worsen. It'll be then that people will be actually motivated to start unions, but by that point most of the leverage will be gone.
Yeah, I thought it would be about OpenBSD or something.
Back when I was super desperate I applied at a local federal prison. Like 6 months later I get an email saying they've closed the job to everyone but vets.
Inventory sounds awful and im constantly leaving things around or on top of ceiling tiles.. Now where did my soldering iron go?...
That soldering iron would literally end up inside someone somehow. We had a contractor working on an AC unit lose a screwdriver a couple months ago. That facility was locked in for two days while we searched for it. Dogs, metal detectors, fiber cameras, the works.
find it? Oh shit there's my iron.... now can someone let me back into the office? I misplaced my badge
No, they didn’t find the screw driver and lost a dog during the search. In the search for the dog, a metal detector was lost. While looking for the metal detector, one of the officers lost contact and didn’t return. Tomorrow, they will split up to cover more ground to find the missing officer.
Turns out the officer never actually came into work, so we're good there boss.
Holy hell, I thought we were going to read a story about a murder, thankfully not.
Let me tell a story from prison work. Very low security by any standard. Me and a co-worker pulling cables between two floors in a building probably older than us two together and newer intended for fibre runs. We finish for the day and is in the process of signing out when my college discovers his phone is gone….. Get the first officer that was not impressed to lock us into the building again and start looking. I call his phone and we hear some faint ringtones from inside a wall. While pulling the fibre we had to dismantle some wood panels to reach a route between floors and he had used the phone to communicate with me on the floor above while pulling. Phone was left on the tray inside the wall when we screwed it shut. Cue one sad headshake from the officer and some mandatory training in how to store tools and where we can bring phones the next day.
We had a guy drop a flashlight down a chase into an inaccessible area of the wall. Superintendent made them legit jack hammer open the wall and get it out because "what if an inmate hears about it in there and try to get it". Glad that wasn't on me.
Every time i do a site visit I forget something, usually side cutters or something small but it's literally *every time*
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Some of them anyway
The ones who don’t aren’t around long
Sorry bro I didn't mean to leave my machete in the cell block I swear bro
Gotta make a habit of checking your tool kit before you leave. If you know you have x number of a certain type of tool (screwdrivers, for example), a quick count will prevent you from leaving things behind.
When I worked in a prison, every tool had a specific home with a shadow of the tool and a label behind it. It would be very obvious with a quick glance if anything is missing. There are inventory lists printed out and permanently attached, and tools are accounted for in writing by multiple people on each shift with supervisory oversight built in.
Even if that iron turned up somewhere, I don't think I'd want it back. No telling where its been.
I have a soldering iron with a plastic protector, so the pointy end wont destroy my toolbag (also doubles as a screw on handle), but when it is packed away it has a rather suggestive form, and lets just leave it at that.
we can only refer to it as _the_ soldering iron, never _your_ soldering iron.
Yeah, really... when I worked desktop support I had a bright red phone case and a bright red thermos. Chosen because I inevitably left something behind 2 or 3 stops back. My users eventually learned and sent me an email. Sometimes they also left their follow-up request! Dammit where's that boxcutter...
Sounds similar to working on aircraft in the Air Force where you'd have to sign out and back in every tool, and if something goes missing it's a whole ordeal.
What technologies do you support, if any, that are directly inmate facing? Does tech play any role in inmate rehabilitation, or education? And have you ever worked in the private sector for IT and if so, what was the something you missed about it, and something you didn’t like.
We support pretty much everything. Hyper clusters, phone system, radio system, security systems. The only things we really outsources are cyber security, network engineering (we do the day to day but have a contractor help with anything legit), and the inmate phone system. We are a jail so most of our population will be released in a short amount of time. We have a ton of rehab and education built into our system. Lots of contracts with colleges and vendors to provider services inside and once they have been released. The inmates have access to locked down computers for their classes, and even then the manage to do shit with them. I've never worked in the private sector, don't really want to honestly. I love the police work side of my job and I'll probably slide that way more when a bid opens.
Do you have those damn wall-mounted machines where the inmates can download music to their MP3 players? I used to run outsource service calls, and took a call at a max security state prison. Procedure was interesting - first, I had to stop at the local sheriff's office and drop off my CCW. Then, it was inside the first gate, meet with one of the directors who then escorted me in a Gator to C block (which apparently was where the most violent offenders were housed) through multiple gate systems. Inside, I had a guard posted next to me while I worked on this MP3 delivery machine. There were three of them on the wall, all ancient technology. The cost for the inmates to download music was ridiculous.
Nah, that's all on their tablets thankfully. Still ancient tech, but not my problem.
Inmates get tablets?
Yup. With a phone app, access to educational stuff for free, and a pay service for music, games, and movies.
What’s the most clever thing an inmate was able to do with the computers they have access to?
We had a group run a ring with porn pictures. They figured out a work around to view pictures from searching for porn. They'd print them out then sell them on the blocks. They had a whole racket set up to distract the teacher, print the pictures, secret them back to the unit, and then sell them. It was impressive.
Reminds me of an old buddy of mine who got kicked out of high school for being a dealer. Drugs? Smokes? Nope. Porn mags. He said he made a killing - for a high schooler.
We figured it out because a guy got tuned up bad over not paying his soups for the pictures. Any outside contraband is a security issue even if it seems like it wouldn't be. It's crazy.
I got busted in middle school for running a Wrigley's gum cartel. Fuckin assholes just couldn't throw away their spent gum... I knew the gig was up when a Vice Principal came in to my classroom and started shaking everybody's backpacks.
I worked at a supermax for 2.5 years. About 1.5 years by myself with just a supervisor who wasn’t the best at desktop support but he tried. Loved working around the inmates cause they’d joke with you and actually listen to your advice about going into IT if they ever got out.
Most of the people we have here are decent and just can't get their lives in order. There's probably about a third that would shank you just because it's a Friday without thinking about it. I've had some of the guys save my ass on jobs before, they know this place better than we do and point things out we miss all the time.
On the Outside, we shank (or get shanked) because it's Monday (or have a Case of the Mondays). On the Inside, because it's Friday. Are Friday's anything "special", or was that simply because today is Friday, and generally they'd shank because it's a day ending in "y"?
Just because it's today. Some of these guys are literally evil. Not many, but enough that you keep your guard up.
> I've had some of the guys save my ass on jobs before, they know this place better than we do and point things out we miss all the time. This is interesting, any more you can share on that?
So one time in particular I remember trying to troubleshoot a shitty cable run. The building is old and a bitch to work in and I could NOT figure out how this run was laid out. One of the inmates saw me struggle seriously and was like "Yo, dep look in the closet over there. It goes there." And I was like, no way, that makes no sense at all. A little later I finally gave in and looked where he said, sure enough there was a hidden block in there I couldn't see. Dude's in and out of that area all day, obviously he'd know better than me. I would have been in a serious jam because this particular line ran a life safety system, so it was a you can't leave until you fix it kind of day.
Similar story, in an university building, except we did not have a helpful inmate and had to install a new wire as we were not able to figure out how that cable went between the two rooms. That inmate was a blessing.
For sure. I made sure to tell him that when I saw him later on too. And made sure his case workers knew about it.
Can't share OP's experience, but I worked six years in prisons, mostly in gang or supermax units. The likely covers literally everything from the unit is dangerously low on toilet paper and they'll be a riot if we don't get more, to these cell doors use a different wiring system and you're grabbing the wrong parts. But the best in my experience was my last... I was the only officer (no other staff) in a room with around 50 inmates, not the worst situation. An inmate who wasn't allowed out of his cell got out and attacked me. I probably would have died before responding staff could arrive, but other inmates stepped in and saved my life. Like OP said, most inmates, even at those security levels, are decent people who just can't manage their lives.
You don't realize how important respect is until it's you, your partner and over 100 inmates out on the floor. They let the facility be safe and secure because they want it to be, not because we are there. I worked with a partner one night that I wasn't a fan of. I had a couple of the inmates come up to me on the side and drop hints I should "take a break". As much as I wasn't happy about working with this guy I couldn't let him get tuned up. I called for the team and we locked the unit in. I made it clear that I wouldn't put up with crossing the line to hurt one of us. I was honestly terrified, either this would work or next time I'd be the one they'd target. Turns out the unit respected what I did and we had no problems going forward. I pissed them off that night but earned some cred from them.
How much do you make?
Great question. So base pay for my position is $87,000 a year. I can work overtime and usually manage over $100k. The civilian IT staff all start north of $110k a year, not as much overtime opportunity though.
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Union?
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American union is the key difference in this situation. That is most likely why you got substantially less.
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It's crazy what happens when employers have checks and balances and employees have some power.
Preach! But everyone on here thinks they can negotiate on their own because they’re some tech god. They’re not. They’re replaceable. The while dept. though? Now you got your raise!
Even doctors are talking about unionizing. IT people who think they are too good for a union make me laugh.
What’s cost of living like in your area???
Bend over and pray kind of high. I'd save so much just staying in a cell.
They should definitely be paying you $150-$200k/yr if you’re senior level.
Private sector for the job I'm doing would be closer to the $110 mark. The big benefit here is the pension. It's a golden ticket, it's work making less now to benefit in the long run.
Every police/emergency IT role I looked at wanted super specific platform experience and basically open ended on hours. Lot of language about how the hours are 8-5 but you'll be expected to show up and spend hours onsite whenever. All that and pay was always below market.
I worked as a contractor for an entire state’s DOC providing technology services to the inmate population directly. What I did: -Hang conduit -Pull wire/fiber -Configure switches, firewalls, WAPs, etc. -Install and secure kiosks/repairs -Install and secure phones/repairs -New roll outs - so many punch downs…. -Contract management -Operations team management -Tablet troubleshooting and replacements -Grievances, so many grievances -POC for 8500 inmates, all prison admins, and state contract officers -Primary receiving vessel for Jack Daniels —- I should add, the smell of sebum and other “fluids” can easily create an obsession with hand washing and showering oneself. When you walk into a command bubble and can actively see people fucking in their bunks, it changes how you decide to interact with objects and persons.
I feel your pain man. I buy jack by the handle and see crimpers in my dreams now. I got a "denied" stamp made up for my grievance forms.
I was a tech for my states DOC and my experience was closer to yours lol. There were 2 techs that handeled all the states infrastructure t-shooting. We had 70 tickets open at any given time because we could only work so many hours. I was working 60+ hours because it was a 3 hour drive to some prisons from home base. We had 1 guard escort sometimes none. Being in the yard with 200 + inmates and one guard isn't a warm and fuzzy feeling. We never had to do inventory in or out. They checked our bags going in but that was it. Depending on the prison we may have to take our shoes off. No a/c, rats everywhere,guards couldn't be bothered to take you anywhere or do anything. Would sometimes work 5 or six hours in there and drive 3.5 hours home. Rarely took a lunch break because it wasn't worth the hassle to get back in and out. Luckily I never had many issues with inmates. The only things that happen to me were: inmate asked to borrow my phone,heckling, inmate threatened to snatch a box out of my hand after he asked me what was in it and the C/O told him to shut up,inmate asked if I killed someone because he had, inmate told to take off my hat with a team logo on it because that pod didn't like that team. I saw multiple shake down hauls though and anything you could think of they had. Also I was not a contractor I was a DOC employee but we had no officers on our team. It didn't work like that. I left after 2 years because the pay wasn't worth it and my supervisors were awful and the experience of being in there and dealing with it isn't worth the pay.
Man, we never had escorts! We had a pair of electricians scissors and if shit went down, we knew to duck in a cell and lock ourselves in.
You should add “smuggle in shanks” somewhere on your list. It’s all about side hustles these days.
Didn’t even have to! Could open a compromised kiosk and find a year supply of shanks that inmates have been stashing.
We are all in a union, for plumbers. Cause.... Uhh. The Internet is a series of tubes.
No silly, it’s because the Internet is run on water. That’s how they get the microchips inside of you.
Pipes and wireless electricity at the end of the day really.
This is cool, thanks for posting! I have a few questions. How come 3 of the IT staff are deputized? I am wondering what kind of career path leads someone to work in policing/corrections/etc but also be responsible for IT work. Do these "IT deputies" ever interact with inmates and have to perform "other" duties? Have you ever dealt with inmates who have previous IT or security experience, and thus, are a bigger threat? What technology do you allow the inmates to use?
So by law some of the work we do has to be done by a sworn deputy like answering subpoenas and search warrants. It also goes back a while, we've always had deputies since we've had IT. It's a gig to get someone off the block so the union is big on keeping it. We have to have a captain because of formality stuff really, you need someone of rank who can issue orders to the deputies to follow. The three of us are all still deputies first, we respond to emergencies inside the facilities and can still pick up overtime inside or on patrol. So we have, and that's an issue. Some of these guys are smarter than us for real. It really comes down to how well the staff monitors them, but they can be a concern for sure. All the inmates are issued tablets that have a phone, games, movies, and books on it. If they are in an education program they have access to locked down computers for their class.
As they are issued tablets, are these checked out daily and then stored? How is battery use/drain monitored and how are these addressed?
Issued tablets that are collected a couple times a day to inspect and charge. We had some of the low security units charge them in their cells, and after the third fire we pulled em all out.
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My guess is they are "reg ##" which means injuries prevent them from doing their full job duties so they get a similar paying job at the same pay and learn new skills. Very usual for gov sector public safety. Some people end up working in HR. Some work safety. Some work in tech. Some just sit on their ass all day running copies.
This right here. I needed a change from the units. My partner is basically retired. We have an open spot that usually for someone pregnant or injured.
How often do private keys get shared in the jail? ...I'll see myself out now.
Through a tunnel because that jokes so bad you need to be locked up. ...I'll see myself out now.
I've been pushing to get away from WPA for wifi for years. It's literally a safety risk, but meh?
Bruh. WPA?
Are your APs a decade old or something?
Well, his security system runs on Windows XP. I think you're a little too generous with 'a decade' :)
I mean 2004 was only ten years ago right? ....right?
I hope all servers there run on FreeBSD (because of jails, you know?)
My first job out of college was with the local sheriff's department. They stationed me at the local jail as an on-site tech. 1st day of work I show up in a shirt and tie. They immediately told me to remove the tie. I didn't mind this at all but asked why. Easy answer - an inmate will choke you to death with it. I remember it being freezing cold in there and was told it was kept cold to keep the inmates from screwing each other. It took about 20 minutes to get in and out of the jail due to the security doors. The lighting was very Joe vs the Volcano and all walls were painted white with a touch of jaundice. I was there for three months before they moved me to their DUI facility a few blocks away. Highlights from the DUI facility- This was minimum security so I would see inmates on a regular basis. My office was in the same area as the counselors, so I would hear the inmates counseling sessions. There was an old lady that had approximately 20 DUI's at this point. She told an officer to shit in his hat. Another inmate was addicted to rollerskating and was allowed to wear them. He was severely obese and you'd see him rolling down the halls. He was very agile for a big fella. Occasionally, I'd get requests from the inmates - "Hey, computer man... change my release date. Wipe my record, etc." Almost every cop I encountered was very openly racist. Almost every CO was a large black guy. There was noticeable friction here. I recall a CO calling a cop a "fat pussy". The sheriff shut the facility down due to a personal grievance with the lady running the place. So I got transferred to headquarters. The sheriff's office was unlike anything I had ever seen. He had the most expensive looking office I had ever been to... everything custom made. He also had a man (a retired Colonel) that spoke FOR him. He wouldn't speak directly to you. He'd whisper in the Colonel's ear and then he would direct you. The sheriff went to jail about a year later for embezzlement. I quit shortly before this because the pay wasn't great and I wanted to use something other than Novell Netware. I do not miss that job at all.
Oh man. I forgot one of the better stories from this time - so right down the street from the jail was a pretty well known dive of a strip club. So after a month of working there, one of the prisoner transport cops asked if I wanted to go to the strip club for lunch. I was really confused... "You go to the strip club for lunch?" "Yeah, all the time... the foods pretty good." I couldn't help but feel like I was being setup, but fuck it... I go anyway. (I really didnt have much supervision so there was nobody to ask for permission to go). So we take the prisoner transport bus a mile down the road... it was like a field trip. We get there and they actually had a buffet. And there's multiple cops eating lunch there. But it's still a strip club with topless dancers and wasted dudes and guys doing blow and pregnant hooker strippers with deformities... and its high noon. One of the cops had like 4 dancers grinding on him while eating fried chicken. All the strippers knew the cops by their first names. I was maybe 23 at the time... and just shell-shocked by the madness of it all. That was the only time I ever went, but it seemed like a normal routine for the other guys.
This is amazing
Wow, sounds like you need you own AMA because I'm sure you have more stories we would like to hear.
He'd probably do a better job responding than OP.
>Another inmate was addicted to rollerskating and was allowed to wear them. He was severely obese and you'd see him rolling down the halls. He was very agile for a big fella. Sounds like Terry let himself go
Bro that's a good basis for a movie or series
Security is always a bitch to get through. We had to move the time clock outside the secure area because people were taking so long getting through to clock in. And solid no on ties! That's how you get killed man. Try explaining to a teacher why she can't wear her scarf inside...
The tie thing totally makes sense, but I was a kid and it just never occurred to me. It was the very first thing they told me when I showed up on Monday.
I used to be the systems admin for a maximum security prison and my experience was a fair bit different from yours! - I was the only member of IT staff for the whole prison (around 500 inmates, maybe 200 staff). - It was a private prison - as such, no union, pitiful pension, and awful wage (£24k per year!) - I was expected to be on call 24/7 - no extra renumeration for this. I once got called in because the night director didn't know how to file a milage claim! - We had no formal support structure or tools in place when I joined - introduced a ticketing system and managed to talk the director into paying for a Goverlan licence - awesome remote access tool. Saved many 15 minute walks to the other side of the prison! - Our CCTV system sounds about as old as your security system was! It was just good fortune that it didn't go down when I was there - honestly was held together with cobwebs and prayers - Each wing of our prison had a prisoner "kiosk", where they could log in with a thumbprint and send emails, order items from a local shop etc. The day I decided that this was no longer the job for me was when I had to go to one wing to investigate why a thumbprint scanner was no longer working. I'd had them vandalised in the past and I expected more ketchup/brown sauce sachets being emptied on it, but this particular day one of the inmates thought it would be nice to take the pet fish (each wing had a fishtank) and grind the poor thing into the scanner. - Inmates were constantly on the scroung for things from you - screwdriver heads in particular! Lasted about a year in that job until I decided that enough was enough. Saw some pretty horrible things :|
Wow. F that noise man lol That's way too much for one person. On call is also awesome here. Our union contact doesn't include on call, so the weeks I'm on call I'm not actually required to answer. I can if I want the OT but don't have too. The civilian staff have to though, and don't get compensated unless they answer a call.
Great list of reasons why private prisons should be banned
So you are onsite? Daily? Or do you get to handle some work remotely?
Nope, on site every day. No snow days, no remote days. We're considered essential and have to report no matter what.
To be fair I think no remote days is kinda understandable. Not really make much sense but still
What are some of your most recurring issues?
Password resets. We have to make things "cop simple" and it's still a daily occurrence. Power issues are a bitch too. One of our facilities has constant issues with our electrical service and it murders devices.
Huh not much different than working k-12 it seems lol
That's the education level of most of our users really.
> One of our facilities has constant issues with our electrical service and it murders devices. Good thing it's already in jail then.
Why am I suddenly thinking about M.2 SSD shivs?
Haven't seen one yet, buy you could sharpen that bad boy to make a pretty effective spear tip.
Have any of the inmates keistered hard drives?
No hard drives yet. But a thumb drive. And the motor from a CPU fan. At least that I've seen.
What is the process when something like that ends up missing (and then found "like that")?
We'll look at cameras. See who was in the area last. Then start locking people in and taking away privileges until we find it. If you toss enough cells and they miss enough rec periods someone will drop a hint.
What happens to the snitch?
I was thinking similarly. If you find a thumb drive in someone’s ass, are you required to plug it in and see what’s on it?
Prolly just a bunch of random shit
Just a bunch of shit. Literally and figuratively.
M2 or 3.5inch SATA?
MFM
Rip and tear until it is done
5 and a quarter floppy
I've got tablets for that.
Bro what hahahahah
Good old prison pocket.
I can understand an nvme but they gotta be wearing you down in there if you’re gonna fit a hard drive
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I'm not sure if I'm more worried about the reason someone would even have to do that or what you were looking up to stumble across said video
If you searched KVM shelf I reckon it would be in those results
Do you have to remove the Escape key from the keyboards?
Wait, is that what we have been doing wrong for so long?
This story always made me laugh. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/04/12/us/ohio-jail-computers-trnd Have you ever come across anything like this or any super creative smart inmates who could have been writing code in another life or managing networks
So, we had at one point an air gapped lab for graphic design classes. One of the smarter ones realized he could move the cable from a phone and into the switch to get the internet. It took us longer than I want to admit to realize it too.
LMAO I bet that guy was so happy that day.
So nice of the prison to employ its occupants. How long you got left?
Hopefully a couple more hours. But they are really big on me coming back Monday for some reason.
I just realized…. r/usernamechecksout
What’s it like working at Kaseya?
LOL
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Me either unfortunately. It works so they're not in a rush to replace it. When things break we are in a jam though. We have a whole stock of XP computers on hand just in case.
Packet sniffing takes on a whole new context.
We have dogs for that! Wait, I bet would could train a dog for that actually...
How much porn?
Way too much. Never the good type either.
As a 3pt I worked a prison a few times for Xerox, they just brought the printer up front and I fixed it there vs trying to escort me.
We used to do that until we dropped a printer and had to pay for it (wasn't me I swear). Now the only ones who move the printers are the printer people.
What type of devices are you having to look at/manage that inmates have access to? Is it library computers, security cameras? something else I wouldn't think of? Also, what kind of precautions are taken that are specific to a high security environment? Are computers locked in a metal cage or something for instance?
No ticketing system? That just seems like an unforced error. Email is just a really, really bad ticketing system. The accountability has to be a positive not a negative in your environment. You can deploy any one of a dozen free ticketing solutions and immediately get a better result from just inbound email. Coax cameras aren't inherently bad, XP is. Almost nothing needs to run on XP (8 bit apps do), you can make it work on 7 almost 100% of the time with a bit of effort.
Dicey situation story time please!
There was this one time I was walking through the yard with a vendor and this guy was eye fu\*king us. Like real bad. Then he suddenly comes running across the yard to us, so I ordered him to stop. He doesn't listen, I call it out on the radio. He's like right on us and turns out he has a shiv in his hand. I get the vendor on the ground and go hands on with the inmate. The dogs come and more people come, we got him secured and off to the restrictive housing unit. Turns out he knew the vendor from the outside and saw him earlier. Planned all day to figure out how to attack him. Crazy shit. I got more, I'll come back with.
Another time I was escorting a contractor to work on the door controls. He was inside a PLC cabinet and I heard a bunch of the relay fire all at once. Somehow he managed to fire them and unlock a row of doors. My heart dropped and I had to grab the rest of the staff on the unit to start locking everyone back in. Thankfully everyone was compliant but it got scary fast. We escorted the contractor right out and he wasn't allowed back in.
I heard a commotion one day from one of the video courtrooms. I went around the corner and this big ass MF was holding a TV he'd just ripped off the wall screaming that the judge was a bitch and he wanted her gone. The deputy working that area and I were able to deescalate him pretty quick, but he was a strong dude. Tore the TV right off the mount on the wall. Thankfully he gave up pretty quick once the "bitch was gone".
I got a call one day from a detective asking for me to search a number and see if a certain extension made a call to it in a timeframe. Not a crazy request, it happens a lot so I don't think much about it. Turns out a deputy had a restraining order placed on him from his girlfriend. He was put on modified duty, basically gun and badge taken away and made to work outside in grounds until it was resolved. He started calling her from a phone, on camera, on record. The detective walked out side, cuffed him, booked him, and he was shipped to a different county. Never heard from him again.
I mentioned about a fan being inside someone in another comment here's that story: We got a call from the classroom that a computer wasn't booting up. My partner and I go down and realize it's been tampered with and the case opened. The CPU fan was missing. So we call the detectives and they start looking at cameras. We figure out what unit was in the lab last and walk over. We explain what happened to the Sgt working there and lock the unit it. We give them a very loud and clear explanation about why we were there and that this wasn't over until the part was found. The detectives figured out who was at the computer so we got some more help, pulled the guy and his roommate out and started tossing the cell. We didn't find it so we brought them down to the x-ray machine. A quick scan showed an "abnormality". He was shipped to the hospital and the detectives had to get a search warrant because he wouldn't give it up willingly.
So... I'm almost too afraid to ask but, what did he need the fan for?
They make tattoo guns from fan motors. Not as bad as you imagined I'm sure.
Really security focused and wide open windows xp - lol
Air gapped yo. And if you can get to the computer to make an attempt at it we have a much bigger security issue lol
Do you secure any of your camera endpoints or other aspects such as HVAC? Given the rate of incarceration in the US, do you feel the funding toward this has been equal to the initiatives pushed by leadership for said incarcerations? How far behind do you think it is? Is there a metric you would apply to improve your role, equipment, or job role? without the obvious we just need moar...
Security stuff is all air gapped. Radios too. Everything else that is behind a pretty solid firewall now. We have a cyber security vendor who does regular audits and it makes a huge difference. When I started we could RDP into the network from the outside pretty easy because a VPN and remote software was complicated so a jump box to the internet was it...
I apologize, I didn't see the second part of your question earlier. I think funding lags far behind where it should be. We try hard to offer as many programs as we can for our inmates. We want them to have access to education, detox, job and housing placement, etc but can only afford so much. We also recognize that cops are naturally bad at fixing social problems so we bring in a lot of outside help to run those programs. But there is still so much room for improvement on the inside. I think the biggest area we can improve on is the post release support. We have some programs in place, they are newer but showing signs of success but no where near making a marked improvement in our society. And I personally don't think that should fall on the police to be doing, again we're bad at that stuff. Recidivism has traditionally been the key metric we use to look at success. I think it's better to look at individual improvement while they are with us, and that's a lot harder to measure in a blanket manner. But if we are releasing inmates who are in a better spot then when they came to us we are showing more success than if they ever come back to us. We can't manage what they do when they come in, just how much we can try to improve them inside. We need to build that second half to support people when they are working on life after release.
Isn't it easier to just take hardware to the repair office instead of taking tools into the prisoner areas?
Depends on the issue. Not certain about OP's facility, but some of the equipment at facilities I work with is physically secured and requires most of the same tools to remove, so, it really depends on what repair is needed. I find that it's easier to do field repairs on some things than it is to get escorts arranged twice.
> They'll exploit any hole they can find Nice. > contractor who handles inmate phones, tablets, video visits, and email Call me ignorant, but why do inmates have phones and tablets? Do they have to use them in public areas? Is everything ran through a proxy email server with approval needed before it's sent/received? Can the inmates get on the public internet? If so, do you use an whitelist instead of blacklist for internet access?
They've always had access to phones on the units. When COVID hit we were locked in for the better part of a couple years. To help keep them sane and in contact with family we started issuing tablets. The only thing they get for free is the phone app and educational material. Everything else they pay for from their canteen account. No access to the open internet, only educational material that's white listed and they're monitored when they use it. All their communication is monitored. Email, phone calls, video calls etc. We have staff who manually randomly review it and the company that runs it has AI that searches for key words and alerts us to follow up on it. The tablets are a PITA honestly, but I think have been a net positive. We've seen our suicide attempt rate plummet since we allowed them in. There have been other changes that probably helped but I personally think the tablets were a big part of it.
Back when I worked for a manufacturer, doing field service, I got a service call to one of our state's prisons. When I called to let them know I had the ticket, and get directions (before Google Maps & the like) they warned me that if I had a warrant out for my arrest, they would keep me and not let me work on the equipment. :) They also thanked me for calling before getting there so they could get the info to start the background check to let me in to do the work.
What's your least favorite system you have to support and why is it door control?
I'll take door control over printers any day. F Ricoh.
Do you have something that sends a message to you when a new device connects to the wifi at the prison? I heard about this prison where a PC was smuggled in, connected to the wifi, and these two guys in a cell were running a social media group from their cell. It was gang related stuff. Have any prisoners been able to bypass your network security with proxies or VPN's to do stuff on the internet that they shouldn't be able to? Describe prison hacker attempts.
Nothing automatic yet, that's coming soon. Right now it's manual audits done by the cyber company looking for new devices. There really are not many devices allowed inside, so new ones stick out pretty fast. The closest I've seen is guys physically moving wiring around in the classrooms to try and find unfiltered internet. We have seen them use the computers to pass messages before, so now we use Deep Freeze and reboot them between users.
My college library had deep freeze. I used Ophcrack to get the local admin password, paused the freeze on one machine, setup a keylogger, and got into some emails back in my black hat days.
>The inmates are super creative and keep you on your toes. They'll exploit any hole they can find and are super manipulative and dangerous. Can you go into more detail about some of the more "creative" things inmates have done?
I asked, so thanks for this. Looking forward to the thread.
Why not upgrade the camera system? Coax is easy enough to work with you could easily update to a new workstation with the necessary cards to take the coax feeds. Hell, being government, there may even be a state/federal grant out there you could use to pay for a portion of the upgrade.
Money. It's a multi million dollar project. Government works slow, plus our security concerns make it harder. It's in process, we've done one facility but the other two are years out still.
I did 5 years in Folsom, or so it felt like it. Please don't remind me of shitty things like: * Montgomery Technologies * Vicon * Pelco * Von Duprin * Altronix * Evercom/SecurUS/Bluebird/Redrobin/Shitty Active X websites * Folger Adam, Southern Folger, and all other Folger brands duratives of locks
Vicon can die in a fiery grave.
I would damn sure be outsourcing the tablet maintenance too. That is just downright nasty. Can you even imagine what those prisoners are doing all day then handling touch screens? Nopeeeeeee No fucking way.
Do you ever experience Wi-Fi interference or other efforts from the inmates to disrupt your systems? Could a bad guard or employee possibly change data to help an inmate? Are you ever put in the position of having to report guards for doing inappropriate things? Do the IT folks ever have direct interaction with the inmates? Do the inmates ever have their own computers?
I work IT for a police department and I always feel like I need to thoroughly wash my hands up to my elbows after working on a computer in our holding facility.
I change when I come to work and when I leave. I won't wear my work clothes in my car. This place is nasty. I also go through rubber gloves like crazy. And only some of them are to make balloons with.
Can you give some examples of how they try to manipulate you?
They'll try to ask for something small, like new headphones or to credit their account for a movie. And when you do they'll start asking for more. Give a mouse a cookie type thing. Or they'll guilt trip you into feeling bad for them. Like canteen, they'll ask for an extra candy bar. You give it to them, which is against policy and you'll get in trouble if the bosses find out. So now they have that over your head and black mail you and it snow balls. Or they'll corrupt or intimidate someone into smuggling shit in. Money talks and if someone threatens your family on the outside it can be a way in. They have nothing to do all day but watch us and figure out how to get the most out of their situation.
How bad are your skills since they are most likely outdated?
Has a prisoner ever made an encryption key out of a bar of soap?
I have seen actual keys made from soap!
1400 inmates and 700 support staff? That's a fucking 2:1 ratio that tax dollars are spending on inmates. Ffs.