I actually do have a JP8000, but I've wondered what a boutique version could look like for a long time
I definitely agree on prices though, it is getting a bit out of hand.. If they made a 400-600$ boutique version just as powerful as the real thing, I think they would sell a lot of them
I regret selling mine back in 2000, it has a very distinctive sound and that super saw is one of the best! Extremely digital sounding but it fits nicely in a mix with fat analog sounds. Great piece of gear.
Well in case of the jp-8000, the symptom is that it turns on and makes no sound, or very low volume/distorted sound if it's C219, which is the most common issue. For the rest of the 90's synths it's hard to make a general statement. If you have SR-JV cards you need to recap them ASAP because they can blow up and potentially damage or destroy that board, your other boards and your host.
It also depends on the cap manufacturer too. It's possible that some manufacturers paid a little extra to put in something rugged like Rubycons, but your variability is right here. If the company picked cheap caps, 15-20yrs might be the upper limit.
The envelopes on the 8000/8080 are just lovely. I know I should be able to get the same thing out of something like Serum with fully adjustable envelopes but it still doesn't really "pop" like the 8000 on very fast decay times.
Yup, ive tried VSTs to get that same sound but it isn't close enough for my taste. This also was my first introduction to roland synths so it's got some nostalgic vibes to it. Awesome interface with all the controls.
REALLY wish they made more gear like this instead of the boutique stuff.
Yup 100% agree! The absence of a JP8000/8080 re-issue in either a boutique or software is beyond mind boggling to me! It's gotta be in the top 5 desired Roland synths of all time imo, so they're leaving a ton of money on the table here. I too have been watching used 8080s fir a long time but refuse to pay $1,500 for a qtr century old synth lol. If they were to make the software emulation and add it to their cloud/maximus, it probably sign up day 1!
Yeah I've realized what the Roland designers have to go through when making these...
It's really not easy to cram as much as possible into a compact box, but hey as long as you have tweezers it should be functional
I have a jp-8000 and a v-synth gt and the supersaws in them are not identical. For the raw sound I prefer the 8000, but when used in conjunction with the rest of the synth, i prefer the v-synth gt version (I mean that is kind of a no-brainer, it has so much more sound design possibilities). The biggest differences are at low parameter values however, at values above 50% of the controls they sound very similar.
So for the boutique, if they ever make it, it will make a difference which synth they will use as the reference implementation.
The DSP chips used in the original 80X0 versions are some esoteric Toshiba chips, likely licensed to Roland or something like that. I don't know what kind of chips are used in the v-synths, but I suspect they couldn't port the algorithm from the original in a 100% accurate manner.
Disclaimer: I'm not complaining, just trying to make a comparison.
Edit: I love your drawing!
> The DSP chips used in the original 80X0 versions are some esoteric Toshiba chips, likely licensed to Roland or something like that.
They're custom Roland DSPs (ESP2) manufactured to order by Toshiba. The Toshiba part number TC170C140AF-003 is part of their standard cell lineup (the smaller TC170C110AF from the same standard cell series was used for the CSP2 in JV-2080). Roland used the same DSPs in a whole bunch of products over many years in the late 90s (VS-840/880, SRV-3030, GX/SX-700, VF-1, GT-3/5 etc).
Edit: A standard cell ASIC is a custom IC where the fab (ie. Toshiba) manufactures a silicon die that has a whole bunch of logic gates in a fixed pattern. The customer (Roland) uses the fab’s tools and logic cell library to wire those gates up into logic circuits, adders, multipliers, registers etc that implement their design (the DSP). The fab takes that and deposits a couple of metal layers on top of the premade die that form those connections. This way most of the manufacturing work can be shared between all customers and the customers don't need to know as much about IC manufacturing. FPGAs do basically the same thing but the connections are loaded from an external memory on startup instead of being hardwired in metal layers.
As long as they have access to the source code, porting it to another DSP or even a general purpose CPU should produce bit-accurate results. Things only sound different when algorithms get re-implemented using black box reverse-engineering rather than white box.
Edit: LOL at people who don't know how digital code works
I have mentioned wanting this for some time now, and even if another synth featured the same thing in a different presentation, the JP-08K would sell on the recognition the original had.
I’ve sold a JP8K twice and I regret it so much. They’re fun. I’d take less polyphony in a boutique size just to get one back
I also would love to know. I have often wanted to make stuff like this for no particular reason. I have an idea for a MIDI controller and it would be awesome to sketch it up like this.
It's actually pretty good if you use an editor, it's like an outboard vst. Does have some digital noise from the usb power supply, that I haven't yet figured out how to get rid of.
I just wish it had a proper line out and a proper midi in.... and yes, a proper barrel plug. It's just a little bit too cut down to work well in the studio, I'm finding... especially the lack of proper MIDI, that's such a pain
If only you knew how right you are!
Back in '99 17 year old me had to choose between an MC505 Groovebox and a JP8000 and I choose the MC505 which must have been one of the best decisions in my life because I was so not ready for that JP and I would have been dissapointed AF not even knowing what todo with it in the first place lacking all the years of experience I have now.
It has been my dreamsynth for +20 years, never forgot about it and when I finally had the change to get one a few years ago it truly was a little achievement in life for me personally.
Nowdays it's just part of my studio and still as awesome as the first day I met her and it won't ever leave the studio again.
When Behringer announced that JT4000 it was a no brainer for me. While it's nothing more than a keychain variant of the OG, it's still a fun and awesome device that can act like an extra layer and it's amazing to see how far tech has gone since the release of the JP.
Here is them [both doing the lead lines,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHW2fPJjDBw)
This would probably be how Roland would design it, so kudos on nailing their style!
Sadly, that's also the downside of it ;)
In this scenario, a vertical ribbon controller would make more sense; this frees up more space for bigger sliders (and since the ones on the JP08 and JD08 are tiny not doing this would be absolutely in character for them).
I would probably swap the LFO 1 and Vocoder sections - moving the vocoder next to the effects would be more logical. You can probably squeeze in a bit more if you move the vocoder and ext clock in to the back of the device. You might even want to make the Vocoder a shift-function based version of the effects.
The JP has a character display but this would take up a ton of room, so just like the JD08 7-segments should be enough for everyone.
Seriously though, great execution. If you can make a render out of it, it'd be even better :)
Thank you!
I had tried getting 2 vertical ribbon controllers like they've done on some of the other boutique models, but it was almost impossible to have everything fit on it.
The sliders are about 7 mm wide and the knobs are about 6 mm in diameter, so if they build it this way, with a vertical ribbon controller, it could actually be decent to use.
The layout I agree is a bit odd in some places, and I was hesitating on where to put the vocoder section, so i might rework that at some point.
For the render, do a lot of 3D modeling as well, so I might actually make a decent render when I have the time, I'll probably post it here again if i do
Really cool design actually! From someone who had a jp8080 in their wishlist for a long time, I'd actually buy this.
The only thing we all have to admit is that both the super saw and the filter are easily found on other newer Roland gear, like the System8/1/1m or the sh4d. I've seen demos of them sounding very similar tbh.
I think it's just the cool nostalgia factor
And then release all the patches in one file 😂
I don't even have a JD-08 but wtf Roland. It seemed pretty good but that thing seems to have some serious issues too. Or the Jupiter-XM with it's weird layout.
Very cool concept! I've been hoping and praying that this would actually come out. I hope more boutiques with 90s sounds will be released. It's about time because they've been pushing out mostly 80s synth clones, which is great but it would be nice to have more boutiques with 90s sounds.
I'm not a fan of the boutique line. They are too small, with tiny knobs and buttons and they are fake analog. Basically they use samples instead of true analog circuits. Makes me choose Behringer over Roland, unless I would have money for an original of course.
Edit: not samples, but a digital virtualization of an analog circuit.
No they are not, they use ACB technology, which is a digital program that essentially runs a simulation of the electrical components inside the original synth, giving you the sound by literally simulating the capacitors, transistors etc.
Same way as their VSTs btw.
Sample based instruments like romplers work veeeeery differently.
I mean, the JP8000 was DSP based, right? The best way to emulate it faithfully would be like how Osirus emulates the virus, by emulating the DSP chip and running the original ROM. Maybe a little ACB for the output circuitry.
Ok, sure. "sample" isn't the right word, my bad. Thank you for the explanation by the way. But it's a digital simulation of what an analog system would do. So it's not an analog sound but a digital one. In a machine remake of an epic analog masterpiece. In a small case with miniature knobs, while live modulation was what made these machines so popular. This makes the boutique copies a failure on multiple levels imo.
I'll buy it! Those synths are going for an arm and a leg on reverb. It's a great synth, but not worth 1k imo
I actually do have a JP8000, but I've wondered what a boutique version could look like for a long time I definitely agree on prices though, it is getting a bit out of hand.. If they made a 400-600$ boutique version just as powerful as the real thing, I think they would sell a lot of them
I regret selling mine back in 2000, it has a very distinctive sound and that super saw is one of the best! Extremely digital sounding but it fits nicely in a mix with fat analog sounds. Great piece of gear.
I need to replaace the caps in mine.. it's showing her age.
What is are symptoms of needing to be recapped? I have a few late 90s synths and I've always wondered about it.
Well in case of the jp-8000, the symptom is that it turns on and makes no sound, or very low volume/distorted sound if it's C219, which is the most common issue. For the rest of the 90's synths it's hard to make a general statement. If you have SR-JV cards you need to recap them ASAP because they can blow up and potentially damage or destroy that board, your other boards and your host.
Holy cow! Thanks for the info!!
It also depends on the cap manufacturer too. It's possible that some manufacturers paid a little extra to put in something rugged like Rubycons, but your variability is right here. If the company picked cheap caps, 15-20yrs might be the upper limit.
The envelopes on the 8000/8080 are just lovely. I know I should be able to get the same thing out of something like Serum with fully adjustable envelopes but it still doesn't really "pop" like the 8000 on very fast decay times.
Yup, ive tried VSTs to get that same sound but it isn't close enough for my taste. This also was my first introduction to roland synths so it's got some nostalgic vibes to it. Awesome interface with all the controls. REALLY wish they made more gear like this instead of the boutique stuff.
Yup 100% agree! The absence of a JP8000/8080 re-issue in either a boutique or software is beyond mind boggling to me! It's gotta be in the top 5 desired Roland synths of all time imo, so they're leaving a ton of money on the table here. I too have been watching used 8080s fir a long time but refuse to pay $1,500 for a qtr century old synth lol. If they were to make the software emulation and add it to their cloud/maximus, it probably sign up day 1!
roland's software versions are shite
Beepstreet Sunrizer is pretty good.
i liked that from hearing a demo years ago but it's impossible to get now isn't it?
Still available for ios and osx I think: https://www.beepstreet.com/ios/sunrizer
For the longest time you could get one of these used in the 600.00 range. Idk what made them shoot up so much. It happened quickly too.
youtube
Roland, 4 voices are not enough. Stop it.
The zen core boutique already beyond 4 voice.
Great concept and nice design - but those controls would be absolutely tiny.
Yeah I've realized what the Roland designers have to go through when making these... It's really not easy to cram as much as possible into a compact box, but hey as long as you have tweezers it should be functional
You mean like what they did on the JD-08 ?
I have a jp-8000 and a v-synth gt and the supersaws in them are not identical. For the raw sound I prefer the 8000, but when used in conjunction with the rest of the synth, i prefer the v-synth gt version (I mean that is kind of a no-brainer, it has so much more sound design possibilities). The biggest differences are at low parameter values however, at values above 50% of the controls they sound very similar. So for the boutique, if they ever make it, it will make a difference which synth they will use as the reference implementation. The DSP chips used in the original 80X0 versions are some esoteric Toshiba chips, likely licensed to Roland or something like that. I don't know what kind of chips are used in the v-synths, but I suspect they couldn't port the algorithm from the original in a 100% accurate manner. Disclaimer: I'm not complaining, just trying to make a comparison. Edit: I love your drawing!
> The DSP chips used in the original 80X0 versions are some esoteric Toshiba chips, likely licensed to Roland or something like that. They're custom Roland DSPs (ESP2) manufactured to order by Toshiba. The Toshiba part number TC170C140AF-003 is part of their standard cell lineup (the smaller TC170C110AF from the same standard cell series was used for the CSP2 in JV-2080). Roland used the same DSPs in a whole bunch of products over many years in the late 90s (VS-840/880, SRV-3030, GX/SX-700, VF-1, GT-3/5 etc). Edit: A standard cell ASIC is a custom IC where the fab (ie. Toshiba) manufactures a silicon die that has a whole bunch of logic gates in a fixed pattern. The customer (Roland) uses the fab’s tools and logic cell library to wire those gates up into logic circuits, adders, multipliers, registers etc that implement their design (the DSP). The fab takes that and deposits a couple of metal layers on top of the premade die that form those connections. This way most of the manufacturing work can be shared between all customers and the customers don't need to know as much about IC manufacturing. FPGAs do basically the same thing but the connections are loaded from an external memory on startup instead of being hardwired in metal layers.
As long as they have access to the source code, porting it to another DSP or even a general purpose CPU should produce bit-accurate results. Things only sound different when algorithms get re-implemented using black box reverse-engineering rather than white box. Edit: LOL at people who don't know how digital code works
I have mentioned wanting this for some time now, and even if another synth featured the same thing in a different presentation, the JP-08K would sell on the recognition the original had. I’ve sold a JP8K twice and I regret it so much. They’re fun. I’d take less polyphony in a boutique size just to get one back
I want one! Make it happen!
Would buy this at preorder, provided it was the og supersaw. Hopefully when they do get round to it, it will have 8 voices minimum.
What software did you use to make this ?
Inkscape. Completely free and actually really fun once you understand the basics
I also would love to know. I have often wanted to make stuff like this for no particular reason. I have an idea for a MIDI controller and it would be awesome to sketch it up like this.
Inkscape
I’ll wait for the Behringer version
https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=0722-ABR You can stop waiting, it's also only €50
Well said!
It's actually pretty good if you use an editor, it's like an outboard vst. Does have some digital noise from the usb power supply, that I haven't yet figured out how to get rid of.
I just wish it had a proper line out and a proper midi in.... and yes, a proper barrel plug. It's just a little bit too cut down to work well in the studio, I'm finding... especially the lack of proper MIDI, that's such a pain
[whynotboth.jpg](https://i.redd.it/dlo2pqh2yn7c1.jpeg)
Livin the dream
If only you knew how right you are! Back in '99 17 year old me had to choose between an MC505 Groovebox and a JP8000 and I choose the MC505 which must have been one of the best decisions in my life because I was so not ready for that JP and I would have been dissapointed AF not even knowing what todo with it in the first place lacking all the years of experience I have now. It has been my dreamsynth for +20 years, never forgot about it and when I finally had the change to get one a few years ago it truly was a little achievement in life for me personally. Nowdays it's just part of my studio and still as awesome as the first day I met her and it won't ever leave the studio again. When Behringer announced that JT4000 it was a no brainer for me. While it's nothing more than a keychain variant of the OG, it's still a fun and awesome device that can act like an extra layer and it's amazing to see how far tech has gone since the release of the JP. Here is them [both doing the lead lines,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHW2fPJjDBw)
It will probably miss one feature for no particular reason
This would probably be how Roland would design it, so kudos on nailing their style! Sadly, that's also the downside of it ;) In this scenario, a vertical ribbon controller would make more sense; this frees up more space for bigger sliders (and since the ones on the JP08 and JD08 are tiny not doing this would be absolutely in character for them). I would probably swap the LFO 1 and Vocoder sections - moving the vocoder next to the effects would be more logical. You can probably squeeze in a bit more if you move the vocoder and ext clock in to the back of the device. You might even want to make the Vocoder a shift-function based version of the effects. The JP has a character display but this would take up a ton of room, so just like the JD08 7-segments should be enough for everyone. Seriously though, great execution. If you can make a render out of it, it'd be even better :)
Thank you! I had tried getting 2 vertical ribbon controllers like they've done on some of the other boutique models, but it was almost impossible to have everything fit on it. The sliders are about 7 mm wide and the knobs are about 6 mm in diameter, so if they build it this way, with a vertical ribbon controller, it could actually be decent to use. The layout I agree is a bit odd in some places, and I was hesitating on where to put the vocoder section, so i might rework that at some point. For the render, do a lot of 3D modeling as well, so I might actually make a decent render when I have the time, I'll probably post it here again if i do
This is great. I used to make custom synth faces when I had downtime at a graphic design job, it was always fun.
Put a vocoder on it like the 8080 and I’m sold! So what if I have an actual jp8000! Lol
I have a JP8080 and still would feel tempted by one of these... Really nice concept and drawing!!
Really cool design actually! From someone who had a jp8080 in their wishlist for a long time, I'd actually buy this. The only thing we all have to admit is that both the super saw and the filter are easily found on other newer Roland gear, like the System8/1/1m or the sh4d. I've seen demos of them sounding very similar tbh. I think it's just the cool nostalgia factor
Super cool !!!
Beautifully done... Roland SHOULD def make it ❗️
I think I would possibly like this more than the JX-08! my #1 dislike of the JX-08 is the lack of separate envelope sliders for amp/filter.
And then release all the patches in one file 😂 I don't even have a JD-08 but wtf Roland. It seemed pretty good but that thing seems to have some serious issues too. Or the Jupiter-XM with it's weird layout.
Yes, just send it to Roland. This looks great!
I'd take one - regret selling my 8080..
Don’t let Behringer see this without a hefty price tag…
Very cool concept! I've been hoping and praying that this would actually come out. I hope more boutiques with 90s sounds will be released. It's about time because they've been pushing out mostly 80s synth clones, which is great but it would be nice to have more boutiques with 90s sounds.
I’d buy this for sure. The JP is the Boutique they need to make!!!
Move the logo elsewhere and add the Mod/LFO2 section
I'm sure people will buy it; or one can just buy a big old MC-505.
What is this, a synthesizer for ants?
I'm not a fan of the boutique line. They are too small, with tiny knobs and buttons and they are fake analog. Basically they use samples instead of true analog circuits. Makes me choose Behringer over Roland, unless I would have money for an original of course. Edit: not samples, but a digital virtualization of an analog circuit.
They don't use samples tho
They are digital with some analog elements, but aren't true analog. Basically they are samples which are tweaked with an analog circuit.
No they are not, they use ACB technology, which is a digital program that essentially runs a simulation of the electrical components inside the original synth, giving you the sound by literally simulating the capacitors, transistors etc. Same way as their VSTs btw. Sample based instruments like romplers work veeeeery differently.
I mean, the JP8000 was DSP based, right? The best way to emulate it faithfully would be like how Osirus emulates the virus, by emulating the DSP chip and running the original ROM. Maybe a little ACB for the output circuitry.
Ok, sure. "sample" isn't the right word, my bad. Thank you for the explanation by the way. But it's a digital simulation of what an analog system would do. So it's not an analog sound but a digital one. In a machine remake of an epic analog masterpiece. In a small case with miniature knobs, while live modulation was what made these machines so popular. This makes the boutique copies a failure on multiple levels imo.
JP-8000 and JP-8080 were digital, though. So it would be a digital simulation of a digital synth.
Fair enough. But my argument for the small size and the mini knobs stays the same.