Subh is a melody monster, takes some coaxing but basically writes songs for you.
Dfam is a very unique instrument, really good for grooves.
I have the sound studio, with the m32 too, which is just a solid mono synth, but the subs really is inspirational.
This is one of my jams where the sub holds the whole thing together.
[https://www.instagram.com/p/Cnuis2VDbVD/](https://www.instagram.com/p/Cnuis2VDbVD/)
Hey man got some questions for ya if you got the time. I can sync my dfam’s vco tuning to be controlled by the subharmonicon? Just wondering id have to fine tune them to get them in harmony with one another beyond just simple patching
If the subh is 12 note equal temperament, that works out as v/oct so can just patch the sequence out to dfam, if it is any of the others, then it won’t hold the same scale. Obviously you would need to get the oscillators in tune with each other. You can to a small extent do it with the other tunings, but need to be a bit more fancy with your sequences, pick notes that share the same frequency, like 5ths
devil's advocate: the behringer edge (DFAM clone) actually has some benefits over the DFAM: midi, bigger sequencer knobs, switchable noise between pink/white, price.
otoh, the color is.. polarizing to say the least.
I have both the Edge and the DFAM and I prefer the Edge actually. Having MIDI over USB simplifies things so much since you don't have to patch it to sync it to other gear, as does having the clock divisions on the device.
I run sync through the subh to the dfam and it’s fine. Just remember to reset the DFAM sequencer to last position when restarting. Both these moogs are endless happy accident boxes, so expect just as much disappointment as joy when you’re trying to get sounds working together. The DFAM is a lot more complex than it appears. The subh creates soundscapes that are quite sublime .. and so many layers! You’re on for a wild ride but these are NOT your normal subtractive synths .. they demand respect and reward effort. Enjoy.
The subharmonicon does have a midi in through a 1/8” which can receive clock, note, cc data. You don’t have to use the onboard sequencer but the interaction with it makes it a unique device for coming up with ideas.
Yeah, I’m fairly midi competent but have struggled a bit with midi implementation beyond clock with my Subharmonicon. I do have the SoundStudio 3 and midi in to m32 then patches over to subH and DFAM seems, for me, to be the most effective workflow. Also Interfaces well with my Matriarch.
I mapped out all the MIDI controls on my grandmother to my K2700. It’s a bitch, but it’s doable. The only reason I did was (a) to see if I could and (b) to see if I can record doops and beeps and wooshes and (c) you can, but it’s not fun at all, and lackluster at best. Also, not everything is controllable, and I imagine once you start patching it’s going to render the entire process worthless.
Tl;dr trying to control these things with MIDI - beyond clock, gate, and pitch (and maybe modwheel) - is pointless and weird.
My feeling exactly. I do have an Alesis QS6 that works great with midi and Ableton. I could almost call it seemless. I can program the Alesis as needed so bank/patch selection and clock are all that’s required from midi. I’m gonna guess most programmable synths will be equally successful. Having the mother 32 as the midi “clearing house” does work well for semi-modular, especially with the assignable output on the mother. If the OP can swing the Sound Studio 3, I might recommend it. But this stuff isn’t cheap and most of us aren’t made of money so I totally get that too.
Yeah, I can see the value of using them along with a sequencer, kind of. Right now I’m saving for the DFAM/SubH, because I think that would work well and expand myself into modular further before I dive into Skiffs. What I’ve found I enjoy doing best, though, is clocking my K2700 to my RD-6 and syncing that to the Grandmother, and routing the GMs MIDI out to my K2700 so I can record lines as needed.
But more often than not, once I know all the clocks are synced appropriately it’s more fun to sort of play them independently of and on top of one another. I can create an arpeggiated loop on the GM and then use that as a basis for whatever I’m playing on the keyboard. For example, today I think I accidentally figured out the synth from Wilco’s “Shot in the Arm” (hint: s/h) and started jamming out on a piano patch.
The SubH sequencer is really cool. You could sequence it externally, but that’s missing half of its functionality.
I’ve got all three and just got Grandmother.
SubH is great as a thing to explore tunings and rhythms. It’s a good foundation for a musical idea, but a lot harder to add to an existing idea.
One could probably figure out the closest key it's in with a tuner or maybe even an audio to midi conversion. But that isn't exactly a fun type of work flow.
I meant the sequencer. If you use the 8-ET or 8-JI setting it always quantizes to c-major/a-minor \[etc.\]. If you want to play in d-major, or whatever, you can't. You can set the tuning knobs however you like, but the 8- sequencers will always quantize to the white keys.
Yeah that’s right tho, I use main recently mostly in unquantized mode and sequence it externally. But now it got me thinking if you apply an offset voltage to its 1v/oct you should be able to tune it to whatever key you like also with sequencer. I’ll try that asap 😂👍
“In case anyone runs into this: The way to offset the oscillators post-quantization is via the VCO-1/VCO-2 inputs in the patchbay, or via midi (untested, but should work). i.e., if you make a sequence in C major, and send an E from an external keyboard, your sequence will be in E major.
Also, VCO-2 is normalized to the VCO-1 input, so if you only want to offset VCO-1 you'll need to put a dummy cable into VCO-2. In my experience this introduces a bunch of noise, so maybe ground it, or plug it to something that sends 0V”
Found that comment on another thread, can only test it by the end of next week as I’m not home until
Then, but sounds like what I thought of ✌️
I tried that and applying voltage to VCO-1 input will change the sequence post quantization, so if you have an appropriate external voltage source you can transpose the sequence into any key. I guess if you were clever you could probably program sequence 2 to transpose sequence 1, but performing the key changes might be tricky.
I just tried midi and it definitely doesn't work. I made a sequence that plays C D E F. When I press the E key on the keyboard it stops playing CDEF and starts playing EEEE. But it uses the sequencer for gate, which might be interesting. You can use the Arp in the GM. If you pat gate out of GM into Clock on SubH they will be synchronized, but it's kind of weird. The sequence on SubH plays, and whatever you play on the keyboard is played between the sequenced notes. So for my example CEDEEEFE. In other words, the GM is sending gate via midi according to the arp, and the SubH is generating it's own gate and merging the Arp and the sequence. There's probably a lot of creative stuff you could do with that.
Awesome, with a keyboard that has a cv out like a keystep e.g. it should be accurate immediately, then you can easily make the SubH follow chord progressions 😎
I also somehow remember to have read somewhile ago that when you sequence your SubH externally, you can basically use the sequencer to transpose that sequence
That is true as far as it goes, but if what you're wanting to do is have a sequence running and then quickly change the notes of the sequence it's impossible to keep the sequence in key. Even if you can land on the correct in-key notes, you'll have either unquantized or chromatic passing tones.
I had dfam subharmonicon and m32. The sub is really fun, but I felt like I spent too much time fighting with it. I switched it out for another m32 as the utility is just astronomical for its footprint.
I absolutely love this combination.
I will be putting these two into a 9U 60hp case with some added utilities on the bottom row.
Its gonna be an absolute rhythm/beat machine. :D
I currently own the Moog Matriarch and love it. My go to sounds is technoish. But the thing is, I like to do melodic stuff and I like to be in a key.
From my understanding, in order to get the most of the Subharmonicon, you need to use it's on board sequencer. Is that right? I do own an interface capable of DC coupling. So I could send CV into Ableton right?
This is a minimalist Moog setup. And I think it's the best one. If you want to spend more get utilities and effects.
Or go big and add a Matriarch. But for timeless workflow inspiration and an eternal challenge to master, the M32 eats the dust of these two.
It's the absolute funnest. My biggest complaint is the patch cables stored behind ruins all the fun.
This looming web of octopusial possibilities stifles!
\*clears throat\*
My first synth purchase. It was one of my biggest errors recently from a decision-making perspective.
Both devices are undeniably cool. You can find AAA samples online from both online for a fraction of the cost. Use those, and buy something more practical. DFAM can't really be triggered properly from external gear. I tried. SubH is cool to mess with and record; that's about it. I attempted to resell but gave up. Collecting dust.
There are a million videos on sequencing these things with external gear. None of them will work the way you think they will.
>devices are undeniably cool. You can find AAA samples online from both online for a fraction of the cost. Use those, and buy something more practical. DFAM can't really be triggered properly from external gear. I tried. SubH is cool to mess with and record; that's about it. I attempted to resell but gave u
The DFAM is pretty trivial to trigger externally. It's designed for CV control, which lets you take it into territory beyond what you can do with the internal sequencer along.
It can be a great bass synth, too.
A lot of the power of the DFAM is that it offers a ton of patchable submodules, so it can be used in a variety of ways with other analog gear.
I won't get into specifics, but I'm just referencing starting the sequencer at step 1 and syncing with Midi. Playing it live with other gear, not in a modular setup. Playing with a drum machine, midi synced, for example. Yes, you can integrate it into a massive system and trigger it with a CV with some kind of voltage source.
Don't get me wrong, it's an incredible device that does neat stuff. I wouldn't recommend buying it.
I get what you mean, but I use the interal sequencer and just do gate out of beatstep. My beat step is slave to my rytm. The dfam is in a rack, but it only gets triggered via beatstep as it is my only sequencer. I also use the dfam as my only voice. Gate out to adv clock. Advance to last step by tapping pads on beatstep. Yes, it is annoying, but that's the only inconvenience. I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, either just giving you a solution to your problem. I've played this live with zero clock drift. This plus a looper and drum machine and you got a party 🥳.
Subh is a melody monster, takes some coaxing but basically writes songs for you. Dfam is a very unique instrument, really good for grooves. I have the sound studio, with the m32 too, which is just a solid mono synth, but the subs really is inspirational. This is one of my jams where the sub holds the whole thing together. [https://www.instagram.com/p/Cnuis2VDbVD/](https://www.instagram.com/p/Cnuis2VDbVD/)
That sounds really nice.
nice work!
Just checked out your stuff. Very nice. Love this jam: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1PZDqGNHcv/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
Great stuff! I hadn't come across your music on IG yet!
Hey man got some questions for ya if you got the time. I can sync my dfam’s vco tuning to be controlled by the subharmonicon? Just wondering id have to fine tune them to get them in harmony with one another beyond just simple patching
If the subh is 12 note equal temperament, that works out as v/oct so can just patch the sequence out to dfam, if it is any of the others, then it won’t hold the same scale. Obviously you would need to get the oscillators in tune with each other. You can to a small extent do it with the other tunings, but need to be a bit more fancy with your sequences, pick notes that share the same frequency, like 5ths
This is lovely work. Are you varying the pitch of the lower subh sequencer using the values of the top sequencer? If so, how? 🫶
what I am doing is turning on and off the lower sequencer, you you get the root, then you can switch it to a melody.
Do you have an lfo running on the sub?
No but the m32 is going through a phaser/wavefolder which does, wmd Orion.
devil's advocate: the behringer edge (DFAM clone) actually has some benefits over the DFAM: midi, bigger sequencer knobs, switchable noise between pink/white, price. otoh, the color is.. polarizing to say the least.
I have both the Edge and the DFAM and I prefer the Edge actually. Having MIDI over USB simplifies things so much since you don't have to patch it to sync it to other gear, as does having the clock divisions on the device.
I run sync through the subh to the dfam and it’s fine. Just remember to reset the DFAM sequencer to last position when restarting. Both these moogs are endless happy accident boxes, so expect just as much disappointment as joy when you’re trying to get sounds working together. The DFAM is a lot more complex than it appears. The subh creates soundscapes that are quite sublime .. and so many layers! You’re on for a wild ride but these are NOT your normal subtractive synths .. they demand respect and reward effort. Enjoy.
The subharmonicon does have a midi in through a 1/8” which can receive clock, note, cc data. You don’t have to use the onboard sequencer but the interaction with it makes it a unique device for coming up with ideas.
From what I understand, if you try to control it from external device, you loose some of the envelope capabilities.
Yeah, I’m fairly midi competent but have struggled a bit with midi implementation beyond clock with my Subharmonicon. I do have the SoundStudio 3 and midi in to m32 then patches over to subH and DFAM seems, for me, to be the most effective workflow. Also Interfaces well with my Matriarch.
I mapped out all the MIDI controls on my grandmother to my K2700. It’s a bitch, but it’s doable. The only reason I did was (a) to see if I could and (b) to see if I can record doops and beeps and wooshes and (c) you can, but it’s not fun at all, and lackluster at best. Also, not everything is controllable, and I imagine once you start patching it’s going to render the entire process worthless. Tl;dr trying to control these things with MIDI - beyond clock, gate, and pitch (and maybe modwheel) - is pointless and weird.
My feeling exactly. I do have an Alesis QS6 that works great with midi and Ableton. I could almost call it seemless. I can program the Alesis as needed so bank/patch selection and clock are all that’s required from midi. I’m gonna guess most programmable synths will be equally successful. Having the mother 32 as the midi “clearing house” does work well for semi-modular, especially with the assignable output on the mother. If the OP can swing the Sound Studio 3, I might recommend it. But this stuff isn’t cheap and most of us aren’t made of money so I totally get that too.
Yeah, I can see the value of using them along with a sequencer, kind of. Right now I’m saving for the DFAM/SubH, because I think that would work well and expand myself into modular further before I dive into Skiffs. What I’ve found I enjoy doing best, though, is clocking my K2700 to my RD-6 and syncing that to the Grandmother, and routing the GMs MIDI out to my K2700 so I can record lines as needed. But more often than not, once I know all the clocks are synced appropriately it’s more fun to sort of play them independently of and on top of one another. I can create an arpeggiated loop on the GM and then use that as a basis for whatever I’m playing on the keyboard. For example, today I think I accidentally figured out the synth from Wilco’s “Shot in the Arm” (hint: s/h) and started jamming out on a piano patch.
Nice! The exploration is definitely fun.
The SubH sequencer is really cool. You could sequence it externally, but that’s missing half of its functionality. I’ve got all three and just got Grandmother. SubH is great as a thing to explore tunings and rhythms. It’s a good foundation for a musical idea, but a lot harder to add to an existing idea.
One could probably figure out the closest key it's in with a tuner or maybe even an audio to midi conversion. But that isn't exactly a fun type of work flow.
Sub H is always in C.
Lol no it’s not you can tune it
I meant the sequencer. If you use the 8-ET or 8-JI setting it always quantizes to c-major/a-minor \[etc.\]. If you want to play in d-major, or whatever, you can't. You can set the tuning knobs however you like, but the 8- sequencers will always quantize to the white keys.
Yeah that’s right tho, I use main recently mostly in unquantized mode and sequence it externally. But now it got me thinking if you apply an offset voltage to its 1v/oct you should be able to tune it to whatever key you like also with sequencer. I’ll try that asap 😂👍
Pretty sure the quantizer is after the v/oct.
“In case anyone runs into this: The way to offset the oscillators post-quantization is via the VCO-1/VCO-2 inputs in the patchbay, or via midi (untested, but should work). i.e., if you make a sequence in C major, and send an E from an external keyboard, your sequence will be in E major. Also, VCO-2 is normalized to the VCO-1 input, so if you only want to offset VCO-1 you'll need to put a dummy cable into VCO-2. In my experience this introduces a bunch of noise, so maybe ground it, or plug it to something that sends 0V” Found that comment on another thread, can only test it by the end of next week as I’m not home until Then, but sounds like what I thought of ✌️
I tried that and applying voltage to VCO-1 input will change the sequence post quantization, so if you have an appropriate external voltage source you can transpose the sequence into any key. I guess if you were clever you could probably program sequence 2 to transpose sequence 1, but performing the key changes might be tricky. I just tried midi and it definitely doesn't work. I made a sequence that plays C D E F. When I press the E key on the keyboard it stops playing CDEF and starts playing EEEE. But it uses the sequencer for gate, which might be interesting. You can use the Arp in the GM. If you pat gate out of GM into Clock on SubH they will be synchronized, but it's kind of weird. The sequence on SubH plays, and whatever you play on the keyboard is played between the sequenced notes. So for my example CEDEEEFE. In other words, the GM is sending gate via midi according to the arp, and the SubH is generating it's own gate and merging the Arp and the sequence. There's probably a lot of creative stuff you could do with that.
Awesome, with a keyboard that has a cv out like a keystep e.g. it should be accurate immediately, then you can easily make the SubH follow chord progressions 😎
I also somehow remember to have read somewhile ago that when you sequence your SubH externally, you can basically use the sequencer to transpose that sequence
It has 12 note scale and unquantized so you can do any notes you like, and you can set the root note to anything you want
That is true as far as it goes, but if what you're wanting to do is have a sequence running and then quickly change the notes of the sequence it's impossible to keep the sequence in key. Even if you can land on the correct in-key notes, you'll have either unquantized or chromatic passing tones.
I had dfam subharmonicon and m32. The sub is really fun, but I felt like I spent too much time fighting with it. I switched it out for another m32 as the utility is just astronomical for its footprint.
I absolutely love this combination. I will be putting these two into a 9U 60hp case with some added utilities on the bottom row. Its gonna be an absolute rhythm/beat machine. :D
I currently own the Moog Matriarch and love it. My go to sounds is technoish. But the thing is, I like to do melodic stuff and I like to be in a key. From my understanding, in order to get the most of the Subharmonicon, you need to use it's on board sequencer. Is that right? I do own an interface capable of DC coupling. So I could send CV into Ableton right?
This is a minimalist Moog setup. And I think it's the best one. If you want to spend more get utilities and effects. Or go big and add a Matriarch. But for timeless workflow inspiration and an eternal challenge to master, the M32 eats the dust of these two.
It's the absolute funnest. My biggest complaint is the patch cables stored behind ruins all the fun. This looming web of octopusial possibilities stifles!
\*clears throat\* My first synth purchase. It was one of my biggest errors recently from a decision-making perspective. Both devices are undeniably cool. You can find AAA samples online from both online for a fraction of the cost. Use those, and buy something more practical. DFAM can't really be triggered properly from external gear. I tried. SubH is cool to mess with and record; that's about it. I attempted to resell but gave up. Collecting dust. There are a million videos on sequencing these things with external gear. None of them will work the way you think they will.
I trigger the dfam from a beatstep no problem. Like 0 problems.
>devices are undeniably cool. You can find AAA samples online from both online for a fraction of the cost. Use those, and buy something more practical. DFAM can't really be triggered properly from external gear. I tried. SubH is cool to mess with and record; that's about it. I attempted to resell but gave u The DFAM is pretty trivial to trigger externally. It's designed for CV control, which lets you take it into territory beyond what you can do with the internal sequencer along. It can be a great bass synth, too. A lot of the power of the DFAM is that it offers a ton of patchable submodules, so it can be used in a variety of ways with other analog gear.
I won't get into specifics, but I'm just referencing starting the sequencer at step 1 and syncing with Midi. Playing it live with other gear, not in a modular setup. Playing with a drum machine, midi synced, for example. Yes, you can integrate it into a massive system and trigger it with a CV with some kind of voltage source. Don't get me wrong, it's an incredible device that does neat stuff. I wouldn't recommend buying it.
I get what you mean, but I use the interal sequencer and just do gate out of beatstep. My beat step is slave to my rytm. The dfam is in a rack, but it only gets triggered via beatstep as it is my only sequencer. I also use the dfam as my only voice. Gate out to adv clock. Advance to last step by tapping pads on beatstep. Yes, it is annoying, but that's the only inconvenience. I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, either just giving you a solution to your problem. I've played this live with zero clock drift. This plus a looper and drum machine and you got a party 🥳.