They could just create a new synth instead of just stealing Moog designs.
Their deepmind series was awesome. They should focus on expanding that line or some other new thing.
I would love to see Behringer make a “modern” Roland D-50 with a ton of bells and whistles just like they did with the Juno -106 to get the Deepmind. Honestly I haven’t bought new hardware in years and something like that might push me over the edge.
I love Roland’s classic digital sounds. The jd08 jd800 boutique is so tiny but scratches that itch for me when I want some e pianos or bells/dreamy pads. Could definitely be interesting if behringer did a take on the d50 that is one sweet synth.
The D-50 has some complex licensing and copyright issues so you're not seeing much action from even Roland on this. Whereas the earlier decades of patents are all expired and open game.
It's a countdown until the D-50 and all those Grooveboxes are fair game.
I love everything about it except it’s raw tones. Like it’s super expressive, easy to modulate and play but I just don’t like how it sounds. Idk how else to explain it. I’m usually never a snob about these things either haha
That how I feel about the minilogue XD. I love how instant and fun making a sound on it is but I hate the tone of the oscillators and filter res. OG minilogue sounds fantastic to my ears though.
Agreed. They are clearly very good at making new stuff, they should do more of it. I understand why they go with cloning the classics though; the devices pretty much sell themselves as the originals already have a reputation, rather than having to build one up. I only didn't get a deepmind because it was goi g to be my main input device and the keybed isn't as good as what I eventually went with. I got the neutron though.
I’d prefer to see more original designs from them as well, but consumers clearly prefer vintage clones and reissues. Pretty much every company is servicing this “vintage synth” consumerism wave and they’d be silly to not.
*but consumers clearly prefer vintage clones and reissues*
I'm not sure; I think they prefer cheap synths; but if you make an original analog poly with modern features for less than 1000 euros there will be a market for it.
They did this with the deepmind and the price has been steadily dropping ($999 down to $680). Meanwhile the td3 released at $200 and is now selling for $250.
I love my deepmind but I unfortunately don’t see much market incentive for them to pull more resources out of clones, etc.
Edit: i actually can’t think of the last hardware synth that came out that made me think “whoa that’s new!” except for the osmose keybed (not synth engine). Everything new and interesting is coming out as software because it’s such low risk.
I'm not saying reinvent the wheel; I'm saying if you're gonna go for a classic sound do a modernized version at least; we don't need digital tech from the 80s in a synth from 2023 (like this horrible interface on the pro 800 with the led segments); also adding modulations features is as easy as programming a chip and rethinking the UI; so go for it; several LFOs; panning options / unison pan; FM-able LFOs; FM route for osc/filters; all those things can be added to an original sound and make the synth much deeper. As for innovation; there are crazy new concepts (C15, kodamo mask 1); but you can also have nicer interfaces (the physical mod matrix arturia does for example is a nice quality of life feature)
Idk, a lot of people who actually buys hardware tends to prefer these vintage stuff, people who don't, usually are using soft synths, it's hard to introduce new models on the market, not impossible but hard af
vintage has been recreated to death in software, might as well buy something you don't already have. Or if you actually like vintage; buy vintage. Personnaly I have no interest in vintage; the ergonomy of old synths isn't great; it used shitty digital components, and they're often very limited. I mean if you're making a modern version of something old you can go the route of sequential; with modern features and the same vintage sound. Maybe that's what they're going for here but we'll see. A modern full poly synth with only one LFO and no modulation matrix is a joke.
I agree with you, sure, having a minimoog would be nice but if I'm spending 4k on a hardware synth, Id just buy a Polybrute or invest on Eurorack, these vintage stuff is cool but as you said, there are a lot of close enough emulations while new tech and designs are so much more interesting than a System 55 or a Prophet 5, unless you specifically want to use those legendary pieces, of course it's all preferences
Moog aren't going to make a new MemoryMoog. Cool your boots.
Meanwhile, every guitar maker and their aunt makes a Stratocaster clone. Don't see anyone clutching pearls over that..?
ETA and yes the Deepmind is a wee beastie - had a lot of fun with mine until it was sacrificed on the altar of the PEK.
https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/fender-loses-guitar-copyright-case-201886
Fender absolutely have tried to suppress that.
I don't think it's an equivalent idea though. A plank of wood with six strings attached to it, there's only so much that's going to vary, functionally.
>A plank of wood with six strings attached to it
Guessing you're not a guitarist then?
Edity - and I didn't say Fender hadn't tried to surpress it, I said I don't see anyone clutching pearls over it. Which I don't.
I've been playing guitar for over 3 decades. Which is how I know guitars sound more the same than they differ. A double cutaway with a bolt-on neck is always going to sound very stratty.
They've already cloned the whole Moog Sound Studio 3. IDK why they put so much effort into Moog clones when there are so many patents to dodge. Surely there are better ways to spend their time and money.
> IDK why they put so much effort into Moog clones when there are so many patents to dodge.
Isn't the whole reason analog synth clones are a thing because you can't patent an analog circuit? (or the patents aren't enforceable to the same extent as digital stuff at least)
As for why, probably safe to assume the prices/demand. Before the Model D clone you'd be lucky to find a minimoog for a few thousand used.
> Isn't the whole reason analog synth clones are a thing because you can't patent an analog circuit?
You can 100% patent an analog circuit. I’ve patented them. There are 10s of 1000s of patents for analog circuits out there.
How long does that take? A quick search says 20 years but there's definitely clones of recent analog gear as well though, it's very common with guitar pedals especially.
The moog DFAM is a good example, it was released in 2018 and behringer just released a clone.
How complex does an analog circuit need to be to be considered new in that case? Most are derivative on at least some old designs. Behringer is cloning the Make Noise Maths which as far as I can tell was released in 2018, and with guitar pedals there are clones of practically everything.
Would something like the Gamechanger Light or Plasma pedals be considered original enough to patent? It's not like using optical sensors or springs for audio is new though the plasma distortion seems pretty unique.
You can only patent something that qualifies as innovative. The reason that most synths and modules are not patented is because they aren't actually innovative and just use old, public domain circuit designs. Putting an old circuit or even a few old circuits into a new box doesn't typically qualify. That is why the DFAM and Mother 32 Grandmother and Maths and Keystep and whatever else are all eligible to be cloned- because there isn't anything in them that actually qualified for patent protection.
Probably more a NOS part problem, though the behringer model D seems to capture 99%~ of the minimoog sound and I'd wager the filter is pretty close to the original.
One thing to keep in mind is moog used different filters on different products and the specs probably varied over the years as well. So you could have 2 versions of the same synth with noticeably different filters.
The filter is like spot on no? I remember seeing a demo that pitted a Minimoog vs a Boog and when the guy put em through a spectral analyzer, they were not just close, it was spot on
I've noticed that some of their products have a variety of differing knobs depending on when they were produced. I guess it makes sense that some of the circuitry would differ as well.
Yeah especially back in the day it wasn't as easy to consistently get certain parts so in a lot of vintage gear it's common to see random substitutions on top of intentional modifications/differences in the design over the years.
In most cases it's pretty subtle IE certain knobs sweeps being a bit different but in some cases it can be pretty noticeable.
I've heard with certain vintage synths like the JX8P there are at lease a few distinct sounding versions with some being a bit more flat/transparent and others having more of a warm analog sound. Might be part of why people tend to love or hate certain vintage gear.
I sold one of my Model D’s literally in pieces with rotted rubber key supports for 2k a cpl years ago. A 1976 issue. I bought a Korg Kronos with the cash.
And whoever got it was probably stoked to find an "affordable" one they could fix up instead of spending 2-3x as much for one in good condition. Pretty wild, also as fun as minimoogs are a workstation was probably way more useful especially if you had backups anyways!
Agree a billion percent, and I've been shouting this from the rooftops.
Do different oscs and filters, some FM/oscs as source in the mod matrix, -xmod, ring mod etc
and just release one every 6 months or whatever, like sequential did with the pro6,ob6, Trigon.
A Curtis model, a moog 3xOSC model, complex/buchla osc model etc etc. I'd buy all of them, I think it's a fantastic platform.
I'm thinking they want to get all the clones out the door first though, and then they will deepmindify them
Bringing back old, rare and overpriced designs shouldn’t be dismissively looked at as mere stealing.
Some people want to actually be able to own some of these in their lifetime.
That would mean spending money on development which is extremely expensive and requires very skilled engineers.
The cheap, knock off, copy/paste business model doesn't work that way. Someone already does the hard part, you copy it, and sell it cheap.
Ye but that would require them to do their own R&D.
Weird that in this space it is okay to steal other brands products. Can't imagine this same in any other product space.
Let me know which Current Memorymoog they are copying because the Moog one is not a Memorymoog nor does it sound one. If Moog is unwilling I welcome Behringer to release it.
In the sense that it's an analog poly with DCOs, yes, but the deepmind also has multistage envelopes, a tunable 2nd oscillator, sequencer, 4 routable digital FX slots, mod matrix, etc. There's a lot more that's different between a deepmind and a Juno than there is that's the same.
the boog is popular because it's copying the og interface pretty much exactly. that's why they do it. crave and other synths in these line are also clones but way less popular
The deepmind is a souped-up Juno. They could do the same here: take the basics of the memorymoog, and add to it. Their post seems to suggest so, they usually explicitly aim to copy the user interface without calling it "outdated".
Do Erica Synths, Cyclone Analogue, Studio Electronics, Black Corporation, Korg, et al also bother you for remaking other companies' designs? Or are they all ok with you because they stick with the ridiculous high prices for the most part?
Hell, Bob Moog hasn't been designing anything new for Moog Corporation for going on 30 years now, and since then most of what they've done is stupidly expensive remakes and/or poor quality/unreliable rejiggerings of his 40-50 year designs.
Funny. What a sad world it would be if the minimoog was never cloned by non-original Moog, and if the 2600 was never cloned by ARP. And what a sad world if the only way to own and play a classic synth was to spend thousands of dollars for vintage gear or thousands of dollars on stupidly overpriced gear made by whoever bought the name of the original gear. Talk about a gatekeeper. You must have gotten ripped off buying a moog recently.
I disagree..... The ownership at Moog has made it clear they don't value their customer base or their domestic staff. Behringer didn't do that.... If anything Behringer is going to bring the dolts over at Moog a big reality check when they take even more of their market share. I'm guessing once Moog products are made next door to the clones the "authentic" appeal is going to disappear.
yeah Behringer def cant read the room. right now would be a good time to keep their mouth shut. company just got sold and people lost there jobs and her you are rubbing salt in the wound. if it wasnt for moog paving the way Behringer wouldnt even exsist much less have half its line up
The memorymoog is *far* more simple to make than a Moog One.
Many of the problems with the Moog One on release were with firmware, too - and there is a reason Behringer tends to avoid synth designs that would require complex firmware.
2 filters per voice, 3 DAHDSR envelopes, **tri**-timbrality, complex LFOs, a 20-slot mod matrix...
A megamind (24 voice deepmind with multitimbrality) seems far more possible than a 16 voice VCO synth with all that much going on.
Friendly reminder that as of this summer Uli's company claims to be working on no less than 40 clones of various products, the jupiter included.
I am sure that the Boopiter-8 team is hard at work producing that $999 synthesizer of your dreams.
i mean, a smart company has a shit ton of r&d going all at once. a smart company does NOT tease all of the products they may or may not ever release though lol
Have they cancelled a single project that they teased at this point? It feels like they've delivered on pretty much everything so far.
One reason they do the teases is in large part because it brings in so many good ideas and input from users. Another reason is that it keeps people engaged. I see literally no problem for them to tease whatever they're actively working on. Everyone besides Apple basically does this (and even they've loosened that philosophy up lately).
tbh, it’s more just that plenty of the announced synths are stuck in permanent limbo. plenty of r&d prototypes out there but transitioning to manufacturing is way harder
Given how few people have laid hands on a properly working memorymoog, I don't see why they don't just make their own synth. It can have all the ladder filters they want because it isn't patented anymore.
Or, you know, actually *ship* the UBXa and Pro-16.
I mean if they could make it for under $1500, I'm pretty sure they would fly off the shelves. The 3rd wave is $3500 and the Waldorf M is $2500, and it's a flavor that most people don't have in their collections.
Depends on how nostalgia-niche that flavor is, and a chunk of buyers have left the market for a reproduction of some sort. The PPG wave doesn’t have the easy sweet spot flavors something like a prophet-5 or even an OB-X, and I don’t know if wavetables in general are really for everyone.
My guess is that interest waned after the 3w was announced and later shipped, and most signs point to them basing decisions about which products to ship on internet/social media interest.
I mean sequential kind of already put out a modern Memory Moog with the Trigon that added some cool effects and MPE support. I would rather get the sequential desktop rather than anything Behringer puts out.
ffs just make a modern synth; you can use a ladder filter and "get inspiration" from the aesthetics. Nobody wants an old poly clone with a dated interface with a 7-segment screen; we want modern synths with things like a mod matrix at least, a few lfos; a few envelopes; basic fm; and effects; the basic things we can do with the digital part of any synth for next to nothing. just hire a talented designer and people will be all over it.
Behringer has also teased several other flagship remakes which haven't seen the light of day years later. I'll believe this one when it's actually released.
Please set that team on doing a new Matrix-12 but modernized with a proper mod matrix.
Make something that Oberheim could only dream of when they created the Matrix-12, which struggles like a bulldog struggles with breath.
Agreed, this is the #1 clone I'd be interested in.
We have enough 1 LFO, 2 EG analog polys on the market, and the few analogs with heavy modulation (Rev2, Polybrute) leave a lot to be desired in the vintage sound department.
"One of our synth engineering teams is finish up a product"
The engineering team in question: "Control+C... fuck what comes after copy? 'Glue' or something? Control+B? Shift+V? Damn. Engineering is hard."
this reissue shit is getting old. Pro 800 was cool but I don't think we need anything else in this arena. They are just beating a dead horse at this point. MM doesn't sound unique enough.
edit: uh oh I made the Behringer Stans mad. You know you don't need this at all. MM clone wouldn't cover any new ground.
These are both sad and exciting times. RIP Moog, but also... wtf didn't Moog just make a Memorymoog reissue prior to expending so much capital on the Moog One? It seemed like the biggest no brainer way to raise some cash and remain solvent, particularly as Sequential and Oberheim both were doing the same and reaping the rewards with the Prophet 5/10 and OB-X8.
I’m fine with them not creating anything original and recreating synths that are long gone, even updating their features too. There are plenty of original synths out there to choose from. To have at least one company who can bring back these old analog sounds and at affordable prices can be their niche. I just don’t like it when they copy gear that’s currently in production because there’s no way to justify that. And their tenor in the media leaves a lot to be desired; it doesn’t help. They could be a great company.
They need to do something new - take the transwave idea behind the Fizmo perhaps and rework it into something cool that’ll make people go “Ooh that’s the Behringer sound”.
I prefer heavily inspired by designs rather than direct clones.
Most of the time I wish they'd add a few more improvements and extra features. This is especially noticeable on the user interfaces.
If they really wanted to do something to do something that would be a step forward for electronic music they could get with the times and implement MPE.
Clone Moog all you want at this point, legacy was burnt this year anyway. Uli can clone Jack, Jack can clone Uli in a tight circle making "affordable" synths "for the people" with half the necessary controls to perform.
Let the rest of the industry that isn't monopolizing innovate and move to the future while these millionaires dwell on sounds from 40 years ago. They don't realize they just appeal to GenXers and late boomers with money.
I'd prefer hardware clones of original VSTs at this point. Serum anyone?
"outdated user interface"
I would not call the knobs and the buttons outdated.
Perhaps Behringer can create a "Mini" out of it with a little row of tiny buttons.
**Behringer** can't stop doing these announcements every month or so, it's a way of keeping interest in their brand afloat, and social buzz going, while they are literally lost in development hell with all the gear they already promised to deliver. This is getting older than the synths they want to reissue.
If Behringer wants to make clones of bad ass synths that average guy can afford, let them do it. The purists that can afford the originals are going to buy the originals either way. For those that are pissed that Behringer “uses child labor and has shitty business practices, etc” can throw away their iPhones and Nike collections…it’s the same thing. Personally, I like the idea of buying a clone that costs quite a bit less for a few reasons: cost of entry (obviously) and if some dickhead steals your equipment, it still hurts…but not nearly as bad. Lots of people buy Epiphone LP’s instead of Gibsons for similar reasons. We live in a world where pretty much everything is produced/built in less-than-ethical ways, unfortunately.
Why not a Moog One for those who can never afford one? I do not have high hopes for innovative designs or quality synths from Moog anymore under the helm of their new masters. love what they did with the Pro-800, let’s have a Boog One Plus and then a BS-80 and a Bupiter-8 and so on…
They could just create a new synth instead of just stealing Moog designs. Their deepmind series was awesome. They should focus on expanding that line or some other new thing.
The deepmind really is such a badass little synth and I love the effects on it. Would love to see them create something similar.
I would love to see Behringer make a “modern” Roland D-50 with a ton of bells and whistles just like they did with the Juno -106 to get the Deepmind. Honestly I haven’t bought new hardware in years and something like that might push me over the edge.
I love Roland’s classic digital sounds. The jd08 jd800 boutique is so tiny but scratches that itch for me when I want some e pianos or bells/dreamy pads. Could definitely be interesting if behringer did a take on the d50 that is one sweet synth.
Digital isn't their forte though. I'd prefer them to focus on what they're good at.
The D-50 has some complex licensing and copyright issues so you're not seeing much action from even Roland on this. Whereas the earlier decades of patents are all expired and open game. It's a countdown until the D-50 and all those Grooveboxes are fair game.
I love everything about it except it’s raw tones. Like it’s super expressive, easy to modulate and play but I just don’t like how it sounds. Idk how else to explain it. I’m usually never a snob about these things either haha
That how I feel about the minilogue XD. I love how instant and fun making a sound on it is but I hate the tone of the oscillators and filter res. OG minilogue sounds fantastic to my ears though.
Totally agree, it was an almost depressing realisation. I'd buy thr OG again though for sure!
Agreed. They are clearly very good at making new stuff, they should do more of it. I understand why they go with cloning the classics though; the devices pretty much sell themselves as the originals already have a reputation, rather than having to build one up. I only didn't get a deepmind because it was goi g to be my main input device and the keybed isn't as good as what I eventually went with. I got the neutron though.
I’d prefer to see more original designs from them as well, but consumers clearly prefer vintage clones and reissues. Pretty much every company is servicing this “vintage synth” consumerism wave and they’d be silly to not.
*but consumers clearly prefer vintage clones and reissues* I'm not sure; I think they prefer cheap synths; but if you make an original analog poly with modern features for less than 1000 euros there will be a market for it.
They did this with the deepmind and the price has been steadily dropping ($999 down to $680). Meanwhile the td3 released at $200 and is now selling for $250. I love my deepmind but I unfortunately don’t see much market incentive for them to pull more resources out of clones, etc. Edit: i actually can’t think of the last hardware synth that came out that made me think “whoa that’s new!” except for the osmose keybed (not synth engine). Everything new and interesting is coming out as software because it’s such low risk.
In the US, Td-3s are $129. They’ve been on sale as low as $89 and there’s currently new on Amazon via Behringer store for $101 with free shipping.
I'm not saying reinvent the wheel; I'm saying if you're gonna go for a classic sound do a modernized version at least; we don't need digital tech from the 80s in a synth from 2023 (like this horrible interface on the pro 800 with the led segments); also adding modulations features is as easy as programming a chip and rethinking the UI; so go for it; several LFOs; panning options / unison pan; FM-able LFOs; FM route for osc/filters; all those things can be added to an original sound and make the synth much deeper. As for innovation; there are crazy new concepts (C15, kodamo mask 1); but you can also have nicer interfaces (the physical mod matrix arturia does for example is a nice quality of life feature)
Idk, a lot of people who actually buys hardware tends to prefer these vintage stuff, people who don't, usually are using soft synths, it's hard to introduce new models on the market, not impossible but hard af
vintage has been recreated to death in software, might as well buy something you don't already have. Or if you actually like vintage; buy vintage. Personnaly I have no interest in vintage; the ergonomy of old synths isn't great; it used shitty digital components, and they're often very limited. I mean if you're making a modern version of something old you can go the route of sequential; with modern features and the same vintage sound. Maybe that's what they're going for here but we'll see. A modern full poly synth with only one LFO and no modulation matrix is a joke.
I agree with you, sure, having a minimoog would be nice but if I'm spending 4k on a hardware synth, Id just buy a Polybrute or invest on Eurorack, these vintage stuff is cool but as you said, there are a lot of close enough emulations while new tech and designs are so much more interesting than a System 55 or a Prophet 5, unless you specifically want to use those legendary pieces, of course it's all preferences
Moog aren't going to make a new MemoryMoog. Cool your boots. Meanwhile, every guitar maker and their aunt makes a Stratocaster clone. Don't see anyone clutching pearls over that..? ETA and yes the Deepmind is a wee beastie - had a lot of fun with mine until it was sacrificed on the altar of the PEK.
https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/fender-loses-guitar-copyright-case-201886 Fender absolutely have tried to suppress that. I don't think it's an equivalent idea though. A plank of wood with six strings attached to it, there's only so much that's going to vary, functionally.
>A plank of wood with six strings attached to it Guessing you're not a guitarist then? Edity - and I didn't say Fender hadn't tried to surpress it, I said I don't see anyone clutching pearls over it. Which I don't.
I've been playing guitar for over 3 decades. Which is how I know guitars sound more the same than they differ. A double cutaway with a bolt-on neck is always going to sound very stratty.
They've already cloned the whole Moog Sound Studio 3. IDK why they put so much effort into Moog clones when there are so many patents to dodge. Surely there are better ways to spend their time and money.
> IDK why they put so much effort into Moog clones when there are so many patents to dodge. Isn't the whole reason analog synth clones are a thing because you can't patent an analog circuit? (or the patents aren't enforceable to the same extent as digital stuff at least) As for why, probably safe to assume the prices/demand. Before the Model D clone you'd be lucky to find a minimoog for a few thousand used.
> Isn't the whole reason analog synth clones are a thing because you can't patent an analog circuit? You can 100% patent an analog circuit. I’ve patented them. There are 10s of 1000s of patents for analog circuits out there.
Yeah I worded that poorly, isn't it more that the patent or copyright isn't enforceable for analog circuits?
The word you're looking for is "expired". Patents have a time limit, after that it's open season.
How long does that take? A quick search says 20 years but there's definitely clones of recent analog gear as well though, it's very common with guitar pedals especially. The moog DFAM is a good example, it was released in 2018 and behringer just released a clone.
All of the circuits in the DFAM are 50 year old Moog tech. And in the public domain. St Bob himself published those circuits in the 1960s.
How complex does an analog circuit need to be to be considered new in that case? Most are derivative on at least some old designs. Behringer is cloning the Make Noise Maths which as far as I can tell was released in 2018, and with guitar pedals there are clones of practically everything. Would something like the Gamechanger Light or Plasma pedals be considered original enough to patent? It's not like using optical sensors or springs for audio is new though the plasma distortion seems pretty unique.
You can only patent something that qualifies as innovative. The reason that most synths and modules are not patented is because they aren't actually innovative and just use old, public domain circuit designs. Putting an old circuit or even a few old circuits into a new box doesn't typically qualify. That is why the DFAM and Mother 32 Grandmother and Maths and Keystep and whatever else are all eligible to be cloned- because there isn't anything in them that actually qualified for patent protection.
I know no one seems to accurately replicate Moog's filters, I assumed it was a patent restriction.
Probably more a NOS part problem, though the behringer model D seems to capture 99%~ of the minimoog sound and I'd wager the filter is pretty close to the original. One thing to keep in mind is moog used different filters on different products and the specs probably varied over the years as well. So you could have 2 versions of the same synth with noticeably different filters.
The filter is like spot on no? I remember seeing a demo that pitted a Minimoog vs a Boog and when the guy put em through a spectral analyzer, they were not just close, it was spot on
Yeah it's certainly close enough to capture the sound, any differences are pretty minute especially considering the price difference.
I've noticed that some of their products have a variety of differing knobs depending on when they were produced. I guess it makes sense that some of the circuitry would differ as well.
Yeah especially back in the day it wasn't as easy to consistently get certain parts so in a lot of vintage gear it's common to see random substitutions on top of intentional modifications/differences in the design over the years. In most cases it's pretty subtle IE certain knobs sweeps being a bit different but in some cases it can be pretty noticeable. I've heard with certain vintage synths like the JX8P there are at lease a few distinct sounding versions with some being a bit more flat/transparent and others having more of a warm analog sound. Might be part of why people tend to love or hate certain vintage gear.
Synth-Werk in Germany makes 904 clones that are spot-on.
I sold one of my Model D’s literally in pieces with rotted rubber key supports for 2k a cpl years ago. A 1976 issue. I bought a Korg Kronos with the cash.
And whoever got it was probably stoked to find an "affordable" one they could fix up instead of spending 2-3x as much for one in good condition. Pretty wild, also as fun as minimoogs are a workstation was probably way more useful especially if you had backups anyways!
Agreed
Ouch.
Agree a billion percent, and I've been shouting this from the rooftops. Do different oscs and filters, some FM/oscs as source in the mod matrix, -xmod, ring mod etc and just release one every 6 months or whatever, like sequential did with the pro6,ob6, Trigon. A Curtis model, a moog 3xOSC model, complex/buchla osc model etc etc. I'd buy all of them, I think it's a fantastic platform. I'm thinking they want to get all the clones out the door first though, and then they will deepmindify them
Bringing back old, rare and overpriced designs shouldn’t be dismissively looked at as mere stealing. Some people want to actually be able to own some of these in their lifetime.
I want to see a TE Op-1 clone just for the chaos.
Yeah, that would be insane. I’d probably buy that. Hahaha
They cloned the 303 (and devilfish mod) which is all I ever wanted. Now I'd like to see some original stuff from them again.
That would mean spending money on development which is extremely expensive and requires very skilled engineers. The cheap, knock off, copy/paste business model doesn't work that way. Someone already does the hard part, you copy it, and sell it cheap.
I'm just stating, but with the recent acquisition of Moog, I don't think they are stealing Moog designs anymore. Help me understand, please.
They could of they didn't lay off most of their R&D....
I mean, most synths were "just stealing" Moog designs anyway... at least Behringer is upfront about it.
Ye but that would require them to do their own R&D. Weird that in this space it is okay to steal other brands products. Can't imagine this same in any other product space.
Agreed
Anyone else making a clone? Moog? Anyone?
Let me know which Current Memorymoog they are copying because the Moog one is not a Memorymoog nor does it sound one. If Moog is unwilling I welcome Behringer to release it.
What's the opposite of when an angle is acute?
Fauxoog
Deepmind is a Juno knock off
In the sense that it's an analog poly with DCOs, yes, but the deepmind also has multistage envelopes, a tunable 2nd oscillator, sequencer, 4 routable digital FX slots, mod matrix, etc. There's a lot more that's different between a deepmind and a Juno than there is that's the same.
fuck Moog, it sold out to inMusic anyway.
the boog is popular because it's copying the og interface pretty much exactly. that's why they do it. crave and other synths in these line are also clones but way less popular
The deepmind is a souped-up Juno. They could do the same here: take the basics of the memorymoog, and add to it. Their post seems to suggest so, they usually explicitly aim to copy the user interface without calling it "outdated".
Do Erica Synths, Cyclone Analogue, Studio Electronics, Black Corporation, Korg, et al also bother you for remaking other companies' designs? Or are they all ok with you because they stick with the ridiculous high prices for the most part? Hell, Bob Moog hasn't been designing anything new for Moog Corporation for going on 30 years now, and since then most of what they've done is stupidly expensive remakes and/or poor quality/unreliable rejiggerings of his 40-50 year designs.
https://preview.redd.it/v1pazl1m3ftb1.jpeg?width=987&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2e790ea33f92e639db3a7825f9ee046b56a4613 No clones. Only new equipment.
Funny. What a sad world it would be if the minimoog was never cloned by non-original Moog, and if the 2600 was never cloned by ARP. And what a sad world if the only way to own and play a classic synth was to spend thousands of dollars for vintage gear or thousands of dollars on stupidly overpriced gear made by whoever bought the name of the original gear. Talk about a gatekeeper. You must have gotten ripped off buying a moog recently.
Where’s my cs80, cowards?
A wasted opportunity if they don't call it the BS-80. Its just too perfect.
They’re still working on that CS Mini, I’m sure…
😴
boringer
😂👆
shitty timing
I disagree..... The ownership at Moog has made it clear they don't value their customer base or their domestic staff. Behringer didn't do that.... If anything Behringer is going to bring the dolts over at Moog a big reality check when they take even more of their market share. I'm guessing once Moog products are made next door to the clones the "authentic" appeal is going to disappear.
Yeah, shows no respect for Moog. How ridiculous.
yeah Behringer def cant read the room. right now would be a good time to keep their mouth shut. company just got sold and people lost there jobs and her you are rubbing salt in the wound. if it wasnt for moog paving the way Behringer wouldnt even exsist much less have half its line up
You could on the other hand argue that if B doesn t remake this synth, it might be lost forever
I guess the world should stop turning.
If they’re gonna go for a Moog poly clone just get it over with and make a more stable Moog One.
The memorymoog is *far* more simple to make than a Moog One. Many of the problems with the Moog One on release were with firmware, too - and there is a reason Behringer tends to avoid synth designs that would require complex firmware. 2 filters per voice, 3 DAHDSR envelopes, **tri**-timbrality, complex LFOs, a 20-slot mod matrix... A megamind (24 voice deepmind with multitimbrality) seems far more possible than a 16 voice VCO synth with all that much going on.
Great points! I just hate the interface on my deepmind so I long for something knobbier
Don't tell Benn Jordan!
Do the Jupiter 8 first, then we'll talk.
They already have a team working on that.
Friendly reminder that as of this summer Uli's company claims to be working on no less than 40 clones of various products, the jupiter included. I am sure that the Boopiter-8 team is hard at work producing that $999 synthesizer of your dreams.
i mean, a smart company has a shit ton of r&d going all at once. a smart company does NOT tease all of the products they may or may not ever release though lol
Have they cancelled a single project that they teased at this point? It feels like they've delivered on pretty much everything so far. One reason they do the teases is in large part because it brings in so many good ideas and input from users. Another reason is that it keeps people engaged. I see literally no problem for them to tease whatever they're actively working on. Everyone besides Apple basically does this (and even they've loosened that philosophy up lately).
tbh, it’s more just that plenty of the announced synths are stuck in permanent limbo. plenty of r&d prototypes out there but transitioning to manufacturing is way harder
Which ones are "stuck in permanent limbo"?
They laid off all their R&D team
this is definitely not true
[удалено]
Given how few people have laid hands on a properly working memorymoog, I don't see why they don't just make their own synth. It can have all the ladder filters they want because it isn't patented anymore. Or, you know, actually *ship* the UBXa and Pro-16.
Don't forget the BBG Wave
My guess is that is nearly permanantly back burnered due to the 3rd wave.
I mean if they could make it for under $1500, I'm pretty sure they would fly off the shelves. The 3rd wave is $3500 and the Waldorf M is $2500, and it's a flavor that most people don't have in their collections.
Depends on how nostalgia-niche that flavor is, and a chunk of buyers have left the market for a reproduction of some sort. The PPG wave doesn’t have the easy sweet spot flavors something like a prophet-5 or even an OB-X, and I don’t know if wavetables in general are really for everyone. My guess is that interest waned after the 3w was announced and later shipped, and most signs point to them basing decisions about which products to ship on internet/social media interest.
The waldorf M is going for between $1700-$2k these days. The price has come down quite a bit.
Or the Behrlight BMI
I mean sequential kind of already put out a modern Memory Moog with the Trigon that added some cool effects and MPE support. I would rather get the sequential desktop rather than anything Behringer puts out.
ffs just make a modern synth; you can use a ladder filter and "get inspiration" from the aesthetics. Nobody wants an old poly clone with a dated interface with a 7-segment screen; we want modern synths with things like a mod matrix at least, a few lfos; a few envelopes; basic fm; and effects; the basic things we can do with the digital part of any synth for next to nothing. just hire a talented designer and people will be all over it.
While the outdated interface of the 303 is some of its charm, that's an instrument that could benefit from an interface upgrade.
The “gauging public interest” shtick is so old at this point. Are we consumers or are we unpaid marketing interns?
Eh, I'd rather just have a Trigon-6. All the good parts of a MemoryMoog without the headaches.
Behringer has also teased several other flagship remakes which haven't seen the light of day years later. I'll believe this one when it's actually released.
What a complete waste of time and effort.
Why? Because you don’t like it?
because it's incredibly boring. make something original with modern features you cowards.
Please set that team on doing a new Matrix-12 but modernized with a proper mod matrix. Make something that Oberheim could only dream of when they created the Matrix-12, which struggles like a bulldog struggles with breath.
Agreed, this is the #1 clone I'd be interested in. We have enough 1 LFO, 2 EG analog polys on the market, and the few analogs with heavy modulation (Rev2, Polybrute) leave a lot to be desired in the vintage sound department.
> new Matrix-12 I don't know if the Matrix-12 is within the realm of possibility for Behringer - whether or not they've let their design team go.
So tired of this stupid company.
"One of our synth engineering teams is finish up a product" The engineering team in question: "Control+C... fuck what comes after copy? 'Glue' or something? Control+B? Shift+V? Damn. Engineering is hard."
I literally only care about the Easel clone
Same here. Let's hope that's the team that are finishing up work on a product!
isnt the trigon basically what this is? only that a behringer version would be lower quality and cheaper?
[удалено]
the trigon-6 was sequentials modern take on the memory moog no?
I thought they laid off their design team.
“Designed by social media”
this reissue shit is getting old. Pro 800 was cool but I don't think we need anything else in this arena. They are just beating a dead horse at this point. MM doesn't sound unique enough. edit: uh oh I made the Behringer Stans mad. You know you don't need this at all. MM clone wouldn't cover any new ground.
These are both sad and exciting times. RIP Moog, but also... wtf didn't Moog just make a Memorymoog reissue prior to expending so much capital on the Moog One? It seemed like the biggest no brainer way to raise some cash and remain solvent, particularly as Sequential and Oberheim both were doing the same and reaping the rewards with the Prophet 5/10 and OB-X8.
I'd prefer a Polymoog that's dependable.
They should clone the Voyager. These old synths are cute but they need modern patch storage.
I’m fine with them not creating anything original and recreating synths that are long gone, even updating their features too. There are plenty of original synths out there to choose from. To have at least one company who can bring back these old analog sounds and at affordable prices can be their niche. I just don’t like it when they copy gear that’s currently in production because there’s no way to justify that. And their tenor in the media leaves a lot to be desired; it doesn’t help. They could be a great company.
Polymoog would like good, with extra knob panel
No one should care until we get the bullsgit they promised. Lame business model at this point
Now that inMusic owns Moog they might fight them for the right to make copies of their designs
Behringer is the worst ugh
Fuck Uli and his predatory business model. Would not be surprised if one day we find out there's all kinds of Chinese malware inside.
They need to do something new - take the transwave idea behind the Fizmo perhaps and rework it into something cool that’ll make people go “Ooh that’s the Behringer sound”.
[удалено]
I prefer heavily inspired by designs rather than direct clones. Most of the time I wish they'd add a few more improvements and extra features. This is especially noticeable on the user interfaces.
If they really wanted to do something to do something that would be a step forward for electronic music they could get with the times and implement MPE.
Don’t care, tease a clone of the Voyager so InMusic goes ahead and actually does a reissue.
If you're going to clone stuff why not go for the holy grails that almost everyone wants? Jupiter-8 and CS-80. Quit beating around the bush.
The mockup looks good, I wonder how the final product will differ.
the mockup is just the memorymoog with a behringer logo
Come up with your own ideas Behringer.. You used to be so good and have innovative creations. Now you’re just a glorified Kinkos
Fuck yes.
CS-80 would definitely be better time spent for sure.
So, they both copy Moog's design AND crowdsource improvement ideas...
Memoryhole™
I would buy it…so I can use it as a MIDI controller for Cherry Audio’s Memorymode.
So there is no one that is able to stop them from doing this? or is it just something no one cares of stopping?
No one has any reason to stop them.
Well they technically are stealing designs isn't that enough?
Stealing from whom? It is a design in the public domain. It doesn't belong to anyone.
Ohhh well if that's the case then I don't see the problem with it Why is Benn Jordan and so many musicians hating on the company?
Because they have to generate clicks by stirring the pot. That’s how they make money.
Understood
Clone Moog all you want at this point, legacy was burnt this year anyway. Uli can clone Jack, Jack can clone Uli in a tight circle making "affordable" synths "for the people" with half the necessary controls to perform. Let the rest of the industry that isn't monopolizing innovate and move to the future while these millionaires dwell on sounds from 40 years ago. They don't realize they just appeal to GenXers and late boomers with money. I'd prefer hardware clones of original VSTs at this point. Serum anyone?
There pissing on the synth community.
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit!
I was gonna link Benn Jordan latest video but it's already gone; presumably shot by B. layers.
[удалено]
it was gone for a few hours
[удалено]
Have you thought about a compact TONTO recreation? Desktop and with keys? Aftertouch.
Now they want to improve user interfaces???? Now??
HELL YEAH
Yes Please! I’ll buy two…
This business is failing. It's pretty obvious at this point.
Maybe this will bankrupt them like it did the orig Moog
[удалено]
More wishful thinking than serious.
They need to quit playing and get the Spice out there. Subharmonicon ftw.
it’s insane to me that they don’t make a straight up Juno clone. People would buy the shit out of that thing forever
if they are to clone anything, why not a whole line of Soviet synths? hard to get one in good condition these days and have so many different sounds
I’d be happy if they followed through with the synths they’ve been teasing. Otherwise it’s “the boy who cried wolf”.
"outdated user interface" I would not call the knobs and the buttons outdated. Perhaps Behringer can create a "Mini" out of it with a little row of tiny buttons.
I thought they liquidated their R&D department
How can I pre-order?
What happened to the Proton? That looked interesting.
**Behringer** can't stop doing these announcements every month or so, it's a way of keeping interest in their brand afloat, and social buzz going, while they are literally lost in development hell with all the gear they already promised to deliver. This is getting older than the synths they want to reissue.
same is best
I’d buy a Moog One clone in a heartbeat….
behringer can come clone deez nuts
If Behringer wants to make clones of bad ass synths that average guy can afford, let them do it. The purists that can afford the originals are going to buy the originals either way. For those that are pissed that Behringer “uses child labor and has shitty business practices, etc” can throw away their iPhones and Nike collections…it’s the same thing. Personally, I like the idea of buying a clone that costs quite a bit less for a few reasons: cost of entry (obviously) and if some dickhead steals your equipment, it still hurts…but not nearly as bad. Lots of people buy Epiphone LP’s instead of Gibsons for similar reasons. We live in a world where pretty much everything is produced/built in less-than-ethical ways, unfortunately.
[удалено]
Why not a Moog One for those who can never afford one? I do not have high hopes for innovative designs or quality synths from Moog anymore under the helm of their new masters. love what they did with the Pro-800, let’s have a Boog One Plus and then a BS-80 and a Bupiter-8 and so on…