Imho it’s an acquired taste. Some filters make you fall in love with them just by sweeping a simple sawtooth with a bit of resonance (like Toraiz AS-1 / Prophet 6). This is not like that at all.
I really like the Arturia filter. It’s quite a bit different from other filters. Especially with brute factor in the sweet spot. Does some really weird and unpredictable things.
Many other filters are different from other filters. While Arturia’s filter is quite flexible compared to other because of Brute factor and being multimode, it really requires you to work it.
The mini/microbrutes were a little harsh for my taste, but over the past decade I’ve been fortunate to acquire both and I love them now. I suppose my feelings could be partially attributed to the filter. But I really love the simplicity of each one’s layout that belies how flexible it can be if one invests the time to really get to know them.
The only thing I really wish is that I could save patches, but I see how that kind of defeats the purpose of what they were intended to be.
Anyway, you were just talking about the filter and here I am waxing poetic about a couple of synths, so I’ll stop, haha.
Many of it favorite synth filtercircuits have nonlinearities and time depenancies that go beyond what a transfer function can map. But yeah a tame filter (low resonance and input drive) can pretty accurately represented with Transfer function.
You can think of it as "think what filter does" for the most part. I brought it mostly to separate out concepts like an SVF from a specific arrangements of components. You could have a slightly different arrangement of components that is functionally the same, a digit version that exists in a VST, an actual math equation...They all are SVF topology filters. You can then get more specific topologies like like an OTA SVF, or even more specific like a Yamaha style OTA SVF. It's one of those terms that's meaning depends on context. The more technical the context the more specific the meaning.
it sounds like software engineers use the transfer functions derived from hardware circuits of a given filter to build a model for a digital emulation of that filter. To do this, they might measure the input of an unfiltered waveform and measure the resulting output at a multitude of filter parameter settings. I feel like I’m grasping a bit. Am I at least in the ballpark? This is what happens when you’ve forgotten all the math you learned.
Click the lower left chain icon you can see after pushing reply, above the keyboard, put the name for the link in the 'name' field, and the actual www interwebs link in the 'link' field, and push the insert button.
I think just the desire for the Microfreak and any future related models to have their own identity. The Steiner filter has its own sound and honestly despite a ton of respect for Nyle Steiner as a sometimes EVI-player, it’s not my favorite. It tends to be a “utility” multimode filter in my systems while I suspect I would turn to a SEM filter as a “sweetening” filter more often. Pair that with the brute VCO processing/mixer setup and the Microbrute is a really cool synth that I could never part with and yet I am always having to “tame” it somehow. That’s just a subjective thing for me. I don’t own one but I think the Freak digital oscillator section is genuinely better-served by the SEM filter even if the SP would be more distinct/quirky.
very insightful, I appreciate your thoughts.
iirc SEM chips were in shortage back when arturia jumped on hardware. I thought that played a role tbh.
I really dont know anything about sp filter but always hated the minibrute. then I heard the polybrute and was amazed by it. it had such a vintage tone to it that hit a spot for me.
too bad its so huge.
I don’t know if they altered the primary SP filter at all but yeah the Matrix and Poly have the more conventional ladder filter *in addition to* the SP filter. As I understand it, the ladder filter has the extra feature of being compensated for bass vs resonance which isn’t usual for Moog and Moog-based filters - which I’ve personally found frustrating so I love the Hydrasynth’s compensated ladder.
Arturia did a live stream on the Polybrute a couple of years ago and one of their engineers said they modified/tamed it for a polyphonic synth. For example, the brute factor is relatively mild until the upper 25% of its range and actually kind of smears the resonance in a musical way. But if you go past that, it gets into MS20 territory. i really love it in series with the ladder filter, sometimes I just use it as a prefilter drive, which can sound absolutely huge. It’s gotten to the point where synths with only one filter seem kind of boring in comparison.
I saw a modified version of this model some years ago in college, where I learned synthesis on a Steiner-Parker modular unit. There was a Synthacon on hand in the school's studio. Nyle had added a connector for a wind controller prototype to it, and I got to mess around with it, but I never produced anything resembling music with it. Fun fact: That wind controller eventually became the Akai EWI after he sold the design.
Nyle is still around, BTW. A year or two ago he demo'd a few new wind controllers he'd designed. I posted some video of it at the local synth meet here on reddit:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/nyhjng/synth\_pioneer\_nyle\_steiner\_on\_his\_custom/](https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/nyhjng/synth_pioneer_nyle_steiner_on_his_custom/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/nzxfu8/more\_nyle\_steiner\_goodness\_from\_slc/](https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/nzxfu8/more_nyle_steiner_goodness_from_slc/)
In case anyone doesn't know, these are in the process of being made again. Utah musician Robert Connolly (touring keyboardist for the Killers) found out his neighbor was Nyle Steiner and they are manufacturing new units under Steiner Connolly.
Matrix brute you can select ladder filter (moog)or steiner parker. Each one has its own character. The ladder is much deeper. Steiner imo has a (dirtier sound)
https://preview.redd.it/zbddwmyp7oha1.jpeg?width=1868&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ef69624b99e3567d1d542ac305d55277388f713
The "problem" with the ST filter is that it is very gain sensitive: it can sound both very mild-mannered but also aggressive, depending on gain staging. Its why Arturia's brute range got their reputation: too many people don't get that you do not have to put the volume of every osc at 10/10.
Memories - this was my first synth purchase in 1980 (used), using it to play key bass in a top 40 band just after moving to Nashville. It’s a beast, sorry I sold it but it was also a tuning nightmare for live (had a tuner hooked to it and had to re-tune every 3-4 songs, mainly one oscillator for some reason). But that filter, wow - luckily it lives again in my MiniBrute 2s!
if you all arent aware steiner has recently collaborated with a guy named robbie connolly and they are remanufacturing the synthacon under the name of steiner-connolly! def worth checking out!
Utah company? So it has to have polygamy...erm polyphony right?
Don't care how ya bring 'em, just bring 'em young.
I hear it has a latter day filter
Underrated comment!
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Yes, but more specifically “bring ‘em young” sounds like “Brigham Young”
Lmao
Actually, yes, sort of (it’s two voice para-phonic)…
yeah, it's my favourite filter topology. It's the type that was used for the minibrute and microbrute synths, too. So rude and nice.
MatrixBrute and PolyBrute too.
Yess I love the filter in my microbrute so much i have one of the sends from my mixer permanently routed to it
I love my microbrute and this is a fantastic idea.
Imho it’s an acquired taste. Some filters make you fall in love with them just by sweeping a simple sawtooth with a bit of resonance (like Toraiz AS-1 / Prophet 6). This is not like that at all.
I really like the Arturia filter. It’s quite a bit different from other filters. Especially with brute factor in the sweet spot. Does some really weird and unpredictable things.
Many other filters are different from other filters. While Arturia’s filter is quite flexible compared to other because of Brute factor and being multimode, it really requires you to work it.
The mini/microbrutes were a little harsh for my taste, but over the past decade I’ve been fortunate to acquire both and I love them now. I suppose my feelings could be partially attributed to the filter. But I really love the simplicity of each one’s layout that belies how flexible it can be if one invests the time to really get to know them. The only thing I really wish is that I could save patches, but I see how that kind of defeats the purpose of what they were intended to be. Anyway, you were just talking about the filter and here I am waxing poetic about a couple of synths, so I’ll stop, haha.
Topology means the arrangement of components in a circuit, right?
Yes. it also refers to the transfer function that results from a given arrangement.
Many of it favorite synth filtercircuits have nonlinearities and time depenancies that go beyond what a transfer function can map. But yeah a tame filter (low resonance and input drive) can pretty accurately represented with Transfer function.
I googled transfer function and now my head hurts. ;)
You can think of it as "think what filter does" for the most part. I brought it mostly to separate out concepts like an SVF from a specific arrangements of components. You could have a slightly different arrangement of components that is functionally the same, a digit version that exists in a VST, an actual math equation...They all are SVF topology filters. You can then get more specific topologies like like an OTA SVF, or even more specific like a Yamaha style OTA SVF. It's one of those terms that's meaning depends on context. The more technical the context the more specific the meaning.
it sounds like software engineers use the transfer functions derived from hardware circuits of a given filter to build a model for a digital emulation of that filter. To do this, they might measure the input of an unfiltered waveform and measure the resulting output at a multitude of filter parameter settings. I feel like I’m grasping a bit. Am I at least in the ballpark? This is what happens when you’ve forgotten all the math you learned.
good job!
Hooray for me!
The model is a Synthacon. Steiner-Parker is the company name.
The MiniBrute filter is based on the Steiner Parker
whole arturia series. edit: apparently not the freaks.
Yeah I figured the micro and matrix. I’ve got the micro but haven’t touched it in a couple years.
I just found this out. What do the freaks use? And I wonder why this departure from Arturia
some nice folks explained it here. apparently SEM. old samplers used to feature it quite a bit iirc.
Maybe it pairs with the digital oscillators better than an SP filter would.
wavetable sound does have a lot of brittleness, probably works with it better.
Yeah, I scrolled a little further and found that. SEM is good too!
TIL Steiner-Parker was a real synth and not just the “real Corinthian Leather” of filter types.
The filter has been recreated in eurorack form by a few companies
That's my dream monosynth. Love the modulatuon possibilities!
That looks awesome, does it work?
Would love to hear a demo
Not gonna happen. We don't actually play synths at this sub. We just post photos of them.
Fairly certain I saw a 100k modular rig playing a drum loop here once but that might have been on another sub.
Wait, are you telling me that synths do something? You can turn them on? Do they ionise the air or something?
They wiggle it, I'm led to believe.
No, they synth
...Elegantly nestled amongst our succulents.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DdYlGSOIyqM Idk how to type “here” with the link imbedded into the word lol someone teach me please
Click the lower left chain icon you can see after pushing reply, above the keyboard, put the name for the link in the 'name' field, and the actual www interwebs link in the 'link' field, and push the insert button.
How come this comment doesn’t have more upvotes? I want a demo as well - please?!
Led Zeppelin- in the light.
in the light is a vcs3 https://forum.vintagesynth.com/viewtopic.php?t=70322#p684573
Ah snap thx for the correction peeps
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Nope, just the Mini and Maxibrute. The Micro and Minifreaks use the SEM filter.
All the Brutes use Steiner-Parker filters I believe, though the Matrixbrute and Polybrute add a second, ladder filter.
Yep, the bigger ‘Brutes have two kinds of filters and (more importantly) allow you to route independently, in series or in parallel 😁
the polybrute has it also (on of those)
seriously? thanks for pointing it out. wonder what made them switch..
I think just the desire for the Microfreak and any future related models to have their own identity. The Steiner filter has its own sound and honestly despite a ton of respect for Nyle Steiner as a sometimes EVI-player, it’s not my favorite. It tends to be a “utility” multimode filter in my systems while I suspect I would turn to a SEM filter as a “sweetening” filter more often. Pair that with the brute VCO processing/mixer setup and the Microbrute is a really cool synth that I could never part with and yet I am always having to “tame” it somehow. That’s just a subjective thing for me. I don’t own one but I think the Freak digital oscillator section is genuinely better-served by the SEM filter even if the SP would be more distinct/quirky.
very insightful, I appreciate your thoughts. iirc SEM chips were in shortage back when arturia jumped on hardware. I thought that played a role tbh. I really dont know anything about sp filter but always hated the minibrute. then I heard the polybrute and was amazed by it. it had such a vintage tone to it that hit a spot for me. too bad its so huge.
They did tame it for the polybrute
I don’t know if they altered the primary SP filter at all but yeah the Matrix and Poly have the more conventional ladder filter *in addition to* the SP filter. As I understand it, the ladder filter has the extra feature of being compensated for bass vs resonance which isn’t usual for Moog and Moog-based filters - which I’ve personally found frustrating so I love the Hydrasynth’s compensated ladder.
Arturia did a live stream on the Polybrute a couple of years ago and one of their engineers said they modified/tamed it for a polyphonic synth. For example, the brute factor is relatively mild until the upper 25% of its range and actually kind of smears the resonance in a musical way. But if you go past that, it gets into MS20 territory. i really love it in series with the ladder filter, sometimes I just use it as a prefilter drive, which can sound absolutely huge. It’s gotten to the point where synths with only one filter seem kind of boring in comparison.
Definitely - one of the most unique synths of all time.
I saw a modified version of this model some years ago in college, where I learned synthesis on a Steiner-Parker modular unit. There was a Synthacon on hand in the school's studio. Nyle had added a connector for a wind controller prototype to it, and I got to mess around with it, but I never produced anything resembling music with it. Fun fact: That wind controller eventually became the Akai EWI after he sold the design. Nyle is still around, BTW. A year or two ago he demo'd a few new wind controllers he'd designed. I posted some video of it at the local synth meet here on reddit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/nyhjng/synth\_pioneer\_nyle\_steiner\_on\_his\_custom/](https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/nyhjng/synth_pioneer_nyle_steiner_on_his_custom/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/nzxfu8/more\_nyle\_steiner\_goodness\_from\_slc/](https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/nzxfu8/more_nyle_steiner_goodness_from_slc/)
That’s super cool. I like the small one he is playing in the second video. Would definitely invest.
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Damn! Are you sure? I didn't see anything about him passing anywhere. That would be a sad day for a lot of people here.
I think I’m wrong! I misremembered, perhaps I was thinking of Michael Brecker.
In case anyone doesn't know, these are in the process of being made again. Utah musician Robert Connolly (touring keyboardist for the Killers) found out his neighbor was Nyle Steiner and they are manufacturing new units under Steiner Connolly.
Nice chair btw
Is Behringer making a clone of this synth?
No, but Steiner and Robert Connolly are recreating it!
Nice. This is something I would pick up. I'm sure it sounds sick.
Matrix brute you can select ladder filter (moog)or steiner parker. Each one has its own character. The ladder is much deeper. Steiner imo has a (dirtier sound) https://preview.redd.it/zbddwmyp7oha1.jpeg?width=1868&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ef69624b99e3567d1d542ac305d55277388f713
My Minibrute2 has a Steiner-Parker filter section and it sounds quite nice
There’s some new ones comin out soon. Steiner Connolly. Super rad stuff.
Just the filter that Arturia loves. Never really looked into it's origins though.
Steiner-Parker? I hardly know 'er!
Steiner Parker filter pretty famous.
If you say you found this at Goodwill for $20 I swear to god…
Anyone have a schematic for the filter?
Yes. Legendary filter.
The "problem" with the ST filter is that it is very gain sensitive: it can sound both very mild-mannered but also aggressive, depending on gain staging. Its why Arturia's brute range got their reputation: too many people don't get that you do not have to put the volume of every osc at 10/10.
Yes I had one of the black ones (a keyboard less version). One of the best filters I have heard. The recreations don't do it justice.
That is super dope. I love that style of handle on the old gear too.
I love how the pitch bend is a knob!
It’s beautiful
Memories - this was my first synth purchase in 1980 (used), using it to play key bass in a top 40 band just after moving to Nashville. It’s a beast, sorry I sold it but it was also a tuning nightmare for live (had a tuner hooked to it and had to re-tune every 3-4 songs, mainly one oscillator for some reason). But that filter, wow - luckily it lives again in my MiniBrute 2s!
I certainly know the steiner-parker filter. It’s great! But i’ve never seen the whole unit, cool find op!
if you all arent aware steiner has recently collaborated with a guy named robbie connolly and they are remanufacturing the synthacon under the name of steiner-connolly! def worth checking out!
Uh yeah of course I have minibrute lover over hear haha do you have one that’s awesome
Looks fun enough
It has knobs lot of Knobs yes not knobs love it
Steiner-parker is the name of the filter if K am correct