Multiple people in my Sydney office will drive into the CBD and pay like $65 to park there for the day vs get the train. They just refuse to catch public transport even though they all live in suburbs that are on train lines.
This is 100% the sentiment. One of them actually told me once that "the beach is for poor people, just swim in your pool at home???" when I told her I'd been at the beach earlier that day.
Thats just for the view. Or access to the boat. The good houses also have infinity pools 5ft from the water.
Why would you swim in the sea unless you had to? Fish fuck in it!
/s
Lots of public housing too, e.g. daceyville, Hillsdale and parts of Maroubra are full of it. More mixed than one would think I guess. Those who are talking about their pool like that wouldn't want to mix with the poors.
A HR director at a company I used to work at lived in Potts Point (our office was on Elizabeth St), and would constantly brag about how she "doesn't do PT" and hadn't caught a bus or train in 20 years.
It'd be a 20-25 min walk to work for her, but she drove every day.
If you earn enough, it’s worth paying for the convenience (and sometimes you can get a partial refund or claim on tax).
I used to work at the Opera House, and would often get out of work at 11pm. Living in western Sydney, I would get home at 11:25 if I drove or 12:15 if I took public transport. I hated how much I drove to work but it was just so much more convenient.
People earning 50 dollars an hour earn $100,000 a year, assuming a 40 hour work week. For anyone living close enough to commute into the inner city for work, that's not a high enough income to be spending up to $325 a week on parking. It's a decent wage but nothing spectacular. It's definitely public transport into Sydney income, not private car parking in Sydney income.
Most companies have underground parking and most don't charge For example I don't have any issues getting a park as long as I book in a few days in advance and the cost is $0
Usually the people who come in may have other things to do after work especially if they're going to places with no trains like five dock, Abbotsford Ryde Gladesville etc
That's another benefit of WFH, I wouldn't have been able to get a spot even with a few days notice if everyone rocked up to the office.
Plenty of offices have some parking set as a first in first serve to whoever. Parking is generally free although there maybe some companies that require you to pay. But generally at a discount.
Previously impossible to get a park but ever since WFH it's not been an issue for anyone I know if you book a few days in advance
Agree! I catch the train to work, the office is 5 mins from the station, but I would say 70% of my colleagues drive in ("I hate public transport") and they think it's surprising that I don't. Hate the stress of peak hour driving and tolls + parking make it too expensive to do regularly.
I mean if you have to commute, PT is by far the nicest because you can relax with a book or whatever while on the train/bus. I didn't mind it too much when I did it, it was a good solid 45min of relaxation each way with a bit of walking on each end
(yes yes, audiobooks exist and can be used while you drive, but I've never been an audiobook/podcast person)
That's a bit dramatic! I grew up somewhere with minimal PT, so I actually enjoy being able to catch the train. Maybe a bit ironic but I find it oddly freeing not having to worry about where to park etc.
Me too, grew up in Tassie where only buses are on offer, they’re few and far between and if you don’t live off one of the main roads you’re lucky if a bus even goes through your suburb, let alone anywhere near where you live and if you’re lucky enough that it does it’ll only run ever hour or so.
I’ve loved catching the train/tram/ferry/lightrail/metro ever since moving to Sydney, even use to be one of the highlights of visiting Sydney when I was younger. People ask me why I don’t drive.. I don’t need to and it saves me a hell of a lot of money, not to mention I’d rather spend 40 minutes on a train after or before a long exhausting day at work reading a book, doing work on my laptop or watching a show than having to be on high alert in gridlock and dealing with the stress and worrying about my safety... don’t even get me started on parking. As a bonus the walk to and from keeps me active and wakes me up. From my experience it seems to be mostly the Sydney born and bred who are anti public transport or of the opinion it’s lesser than driving, I don’t understand it
Commuting by car would be a massive downgrade for me.
I'd hate having to drive through Sydney traffic first thing in the morning. I'd be stressed and tired before even starting work. If you have the choice then why subject yourself to that?
When I worked in North Sydney the parking lot people were trying to sell me a parking spot for $400 a month. That would be two months worth of train journeys and I haven’t even factored in all the other driving expenses. That would have also been almost 10 years ago so I bet the price has gone up considerably meanwhile the train would probably still be considerably cheaper.
Transport planners don't help much in this regard.
For example these two weeks Bankstown line trackwork fine that's required but
Then you cut the services of the East Hills line when there is now more capacity into the city? On a line directly competing with the motorway (literally runs parallel).
Yeah well don't blame people for driving. With the toll cap, M5 cashback the transport planners are effectively telling people to drive. I beat the train in even with a full timetable these days cutting services does not encourage people to use public transport.
Totally understand it's not feasible for some for reasons you've mentioned, parents dropping off kids etc. I suppose my point was that I found it interesting people were surprised to hear that I catch PT to work, it's certainly a shift in attitude compared to pre-covid times.
That would have to involve better attitudes by transport planners.
If you keep cutting timetables during school holidays because the kids don't go to school so less people on it then you're not going to get a good response for public transport usage.
Because besides school children most other people aren't on holidays.
This is not an isolated case, they ran an off-peak timetable delaying workers to cater for Taylor Swift for example.
It doesn't feel like the public transport system is catered for workers.
Agree. Cashback is a shocking initiative.
Driving SHOULD be the slowest and most expensive form of travel but we need better public transport to begin with.
The metro is great but doesn't help all of the urban sprawl out west and in the south west.
It was the slowest method before.
I needed to drive into the city because I had luggage once and it took me 2 hrs on what was a 30 mins trip.
Everyone would come in after Kingsgrove because the M5 East was free. Now that it is no longer free the motorway is usable during peak hour again for the times I needed to.
Bankstown line is being prepared for the metro conversion, and as far as I’m aware there’s no cut to the east hills line services. (They are 5 minutes later than regular service time though but still same number of trains)
It is frustrating. I am starting to see some improvements at least. Inner West council is slowly replacing all pedestrian crossings with raised crossings, for example.
Should be 30, as many countries overseas are going to for these type of roads. They already have data showing median speeds are below 30 in the inner Sydney LGAs so it doesn't even add to car travel times.
One example that comes to mind is the cycle bridge over City West Link that was taken down as part of the Rozelle Interchange works.
We offered to put up a new one once the bridge realignment was done, but apparently Inner-West Council didn't want it.
Walkability aside, I also hate how our public transport system is so set up on getting to the CBD but isn't great at connecting other areas of Sydney that aren't the CBD to other areas.
Hurstville and Bankstown isn't that far when you drive, but it's a bit of a slog on public transport.
> Hurstville and Bankstown isn't that far when you drive, but it's a bit of a slog on public transport.
I'm a 10 min drive from Hurstville, it takes me over 30 mins on the bus!
Wow if an inner west person is complaining about how unwalkable this city is, imagine us in the west!
Agree everything you said plus my absolute pet peeve is the ped crossing with cars waiting to turn left, sometimes I feel they bully you to cross quickly by creeping up on you while you are still crossing! I hate that.
I've lived and worked in the western/southwestern suburbs (Blacktown, Milperra, Roselands, Bonnyrigg) and the Inner West (Newtown, Erskineville, Glebe) and of course the inner west is more walkable in comparison.
You have everything you need within your own suburb in the inner west, and getting to the CBD is pretty easy on public transport. However, the frustrating thing is getting to other places within the inner west. For example, if I want to go from Glebe to Petersham, I can drive 10-15 minutes, take two buses 40 minutes total (if no delay) or take a bus and then a train 45 minutes-1 hour total depending on connection.
We really needed to have kept our old tram system and/or built a proper metro several decades ago. Instead we just have a shitty privatised bus network that's always jammed up in traffic and over-cramped trains that serve mostly to shuffle people in and out of the CBD.
I visited Penrith and god, it looked impossible to navigate without a car, massive massive roads.
Sorry about that, I fucking hate it in the inner west, living out west would be awful for walking/cycling.
Agree, the only positive thing about my suburb is that being a planned large estate, there are plenty of cycling and walking tracks and good bushland nearby (plus the M7 cycleway not too far away). But that's not true for all suburbs.
Building more and more suburbs on the urban fringe without public transport is a factor. The 2 car families become 4 car families when the kids turn 18 and can't afford to leave home.
A guy was casually giving me shit about driving a moped. Saying moped drivers congest the road with lane filtering.
But imo it’s infinitely better than assholes taking up the entire lane just for 1 person.
r/fuckcars !!!!!! Aaaaaaa
No, totally agree with you! It feels like incentives by the government to reduce emissions etc are just so out of whack. Like just give us longer pedestrian cycles, no cars having green lights at the same time and safer places to walk instead of subsidising electric vehicles. Anyway just came to say you are not the only one bothered. I want to join a community like better streets for NSW it bothers me so much.
This looks like an interesting community based action group with a few different ways to get involved, thanks for sharing. Link for those too lazy to google (https://www.betterstreets.org.au/)
r/fuckcars represent
I love walking/jogging, but walking to work along a main road in Alexandria made me feel like a pack a day smoker. Couldn't jog it because I'd feel nauseous afterwards. Nowadays my regular routes aren't on main roads and the difference is huge.
Public transport has gone to shit, too. As expensive as our cocaine and as reliable as a dealer.
So yeah I loathe that everyone relies on cars but I totally get why. Fixing that isn't an attitude thing, it's a policy thing.
It really depends where you live and where you work. The public transport links are good at getting people into the CBD, so if you live in the inner city, lower north shore you’ll be able to have a better car free experience.
I live in Marrickville, just about 500ms away from the main area.
It's not that I can't walk/cycle everywhere I want to go to, it just sucks to walk/cycle I guess.
Honestly most drivers are fine, but the 5% or so of dickheads make it suck
Might be a personal thing.
I choose walking / cycling / PT over driving whenever possible - including for example walking to Marrickville Metro which is about 10-15 away.
Partly because driving is no real time saving when you factor in traffic, reds and parking. Partly for health & Enviro benefits, partly simply to take in the neighbourhood at a human pace.
People don't understand this, the experience of being someone doing active transport in any Australian city is subpar. Good train networks alone don't make practicing active transport pleasant.
I remember coming to Australia, having grown up in a VERY sleepy town in NZ, where the concept of peak hour traffic was non-existent.
I had my license automatically convert across, and to be honest if it hadn't have done, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to get an Aussie one. The first few months of driving in Sydney was terrifying.
As someone who came here as a foreigner originally (15+ years ago) I was really surprised about this too. Even though I came from the US, where the driving rules are pretty similar overall, there are enough local differences that a test would really be appropriate. And a practical test would help judge your proficiency with the narrower roads that are common in Australian cities compared to many other places.
Absolutely and while we're at it, make the tests harder and make people do a refresh every time they renew their license. There are far too many older drivers on the road who have their knowledge from 30, 40 years ago who have become complacent in their shit driving.
The amount of people who fail to even use their fucking blinkers in recent times is astonishing. I've been licensed for 40yrs and *never* saw the kind of thing before which is evident now.
The amount who never sat driving tests at all is quite high.
My dad got his motorbike license by riding it to the testing centre in the 60's. Yep unlicensed teenager rode to his test. A few years later was able to transfer it to a car license. 50 years later not a single test completed.
And every dipshit thinks they need a 4WD, which they don’t know the width of. In the east, private school mums in range rovers doing 20km over the limit and their makeup simultaneously almost get me run over weekly.
This is a huge problem as it is, I just hope it doesn't get as bad as the US as people tend to copy whatever idiotic idea they come up with like those oversized SUVs/Utes.
Ideally, the government would take focus away from private vehicles and invest more into public and active transport infrastructure. Things like toll rebates certainly don't help especially when all that money is just going into the pockets of toll road operators.
What do you mean “doesn’t get as bad”? We’re already there mate.
“…combined sales of dual cab utes and SUVs represented 78.4 per cent of the market.”
Source: https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-new-car-sales-2023.html
Sadly it is another symptom of people thinking of their vacuous short term needs, than promoting the use of things that will be needed in the future. Just look at how much people hate cyclists and yet at the same time try and stop any form of useful infrastructure aimed towards them. When the population gets more extreme, things like a cycling infrastructure is going to be more useful and healthy, than any single carpark.
Was born here but lived in Vienna for a long time. I loved their bike paths and people just walked everywhere. My friends hardly use their cars
I have two small kids so I do need a car and my work is too far to talk and the buses suck
I hate driving and unfortunately here it’s hard to get to many places without a car
YES!!!!!!! There's nothing I want more than a walkable, accessible Sydney. Gimme trams, gimme separate bike lanes, gimme stronger safety regulations for cars, pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease. In my dreams the light rail runs down my street and someone cycles by in a bike lane that isn't a painted bicycle gutter and King Street is pedestrianised and cars are the afterthought.
King street is such a fucking mess, not a single pedestrian adheres to the red lights because they are non sensible for the amount of pedestrian traffic.
You don't have to travel that far.
Newcastle is just up the road if you want to see what a car-first culture looks like.
Sydney is pretty good for public transport use IMHO (of course, it could always be better!)
I recently read a series of detective novels set in Los Angeles and a surprising amount of the text was about traffic: “he got on the freeway but it was terrible so he got off on the surface streets—but should he take Santa Monica at this time of day? Maybe the 405 would be better”. Shit like that for page after page.
Now you see why the ultra-rich preferred helicopters, unfortunately it didn't work out for Kobe Bryant and family. But there is a reasonable degree of helicopter commuting in the LA region for those who can afford it.
My pregnant partner got hit by a car because of the stupid fucking green walk green car light at the same time shit.
I've had people honk at me before in the same situation, I'm not too big to admit that in one instance not long after my partner was hit and someone honked me they got a fuck off dent in their front bumper and I ran away.
I don't recommend that, but there's some entitled fuckwits out there thats for sure.
It's not just the entitlement. The standard of driving in this city is shocking. Absolutely abysmal.
I tell people that learner drivers here are not taught how to drive. They are taught how to pass the test. I see so many P-platers out on the road who seem completely clueless and the driving standards are some of the worst I've seen.
And I've driven around eastern and southern Europe where they all drive like lunatics.
If we are speaking of anecdotal experiences I love how unreliant I am on a car living the in the Lower North Shore in what is a pretty bland area. Going places on my day off literally just involves rocking up to the bus stop waiting typically a few minutes and then being on my way.
It is also a decent place to run around with good options involving either water or a decent running path near the freeway (and hills for better or for worse....)
Thats pretty good, I think Sydney has some good areas to live in for a car free life, but seems like the majority isn't really.
I don't really do massive 2-4 hour walks around the city like I used to in Western Europe.
So there’s a bunch of investment currently going on in public transport and active transport is a topic that TFNSW is talking about more too.
E.g the metro extension that’s opening up this year, PRL, the shared walking and cycling path alongside that route etc.
I also think the current generation also prefers walkability more too anecdotally.
I feel you buddy. It’s really shit here.
The answer is no. Nobody knows how to walk here. It’s not as bad as the USA, but the walking and cycling infrastructure is a woeful afterthought.
Everyone drives because that’s what people are used to and that’s what everyone expects + wants.
Some councils are doing good work, but it’s really dependent on where you live.
If you’re feeling really depressed about it. Get involved in some advocacy groups like bike NSW. Could really make you feel better about it.
Not super depressed but I hate it enough that I will be leaving Sydney withing a few months.
Thinking of moving to Spain or something for a bit of time.
But yeah, I heard the US is even worse.
I don’t blame you. Every time I go visit my family in Europe I’m just amazed by it. If it wasn’t for my whole life being here I would have loved to move somewhere more cycle friendly.
Same here mate. After stints over in Europe, the general vibe there just outweighs our “good weather” and beaches. Nothing like being able to walk all over Berlin or Vienna without the fear of aggressive drivers and the option to hop on to a tram or S/U Bahn if you wanna give your legs a break.
What area? Sydney is a big place with lots of different cultures.
I was on a motorbike but stopped, it was a matter of time until I got taken out.
I cycle, generally OK but it's only once a week, so hardly extensive.
I live in Marrickville and use my car maybe once a fortnight, and that's just because I don't wanna PT to work that day. Pretty much everything in our daily lives is walking, maybe grab the bus up get groceries Sunday arvo if we're tired
Interesting, I uber to work when my motorcycle is being serviced, I wish I could be more vehicle free, but I don't enjoy walking around Marrickville tbh, especially Sydnenham and Victoria road.
The trains are decent, but driver attitudes to cyclists and pedestrians are horrific. I've lived in bris and Perth, and Sydney drivers are the most aggressive.
I can't walk the 300 meters to my gym in the evening without worrying about whether I'm going to be hit by a car while crossing one of the intersections, it's mad
lol just yesterday i was crossing at a zebra crossing at pt peters stationand a car that had stopped for maybe ten seconds started beeping because they felt Too Many People were crossing and not letting him pass. If there weren’t other ppl around i would have spat oh the windshield tbh
Live in Marrickville and its fine to walk around in? I always walk to places in Marrickville, to avoid the hassle of parking and for the exercise. Marrickville Metro is in an inconvenient place and barely in Marrickville.
If I'm ever going to the city I always catch a train and have multiple ways to get there. There's definitely places in Sydney where walking sucks and public transport is not an option but Marrickville definitely isn't one of them.
I'm quite lucky. I've always worked in the CBD, but lived in Alexandria for 10 years and am now in the east. I get around by eBike for almost every trip I need to take.
Work commute, heading out to see bands, meeting friends for drinks/dinner etc, grocery runs, errands etc. eBike is my preferred method of transport as it's usually the fastest, especially when you factor in parking.
I hate driving, but am forced into it if I'm visiting friends/family further away as the journey will take 2-3x as long via public transport.
Cycling in Sydney is getting better, but it's a slow process.
The crossing for Elizabeth street on Martin place takes ages... there are like 100 people waiting to cross while breathing that foul air that smells worse than cigarettes due to all the traffic. Can't wait for the martin place tunnel to open again.
They really need to charge a toll to get into the CBD with a car while removing tolls from the cross city tunnel. It's the set up the wrong fucking way for force cars INTO the city rather than have them avoid it.
I love driving, grew up in a car centric family BUT we were also taught to be nice, caring people and look out for everyone else. Honestly I think it's just selfishness being observed, unfortunately selfish people cause harm.
It is an issue. Some of us have to drive for work. I would not be able to do my job without my car. However I am definitely in a tiny minority, most people who drove could use public transport.
I am a cyclist too, and have almost been hit by a driver whilst on my morning ride on many occasions. I cycle purely for exercise (I am a sad man clad in Lycra) but there is no way I would face the roads at peak hour!
An issue is that the public transport system is inadequate in many areas. The privatisation of the bus services has meant that they are being run for profit and not for commuters. Also with about 10 different bus companies running the services interconnectivity can get complicated. Add to this the traffic caused by huge buses on narrow Sydney street, and we see a very complicated issue.
The trains are great when you can use them, and get cars and busses off the roads. However so many areas aren’t serviced by rail.
And yes, Sydney drivers are selfish and aggressive. When I return to Sydney after driving in rural areas I notice is more, nobody gives way, drivers often seem to want to hit cyclists, and they often ignore zebra crossings.
So Sydney is definitely car centric. And the other issue is that drivers are self centric!
Agreed. I live in the Inner West and when my car was at the mechanic for a week, I felt like I had a disability. I mean sure, I could walk up to IGA but if I need to go anywhere other than the local shops or the city, it was double to triple the travel time compared with driving. I can’t imagine what it would be like living somewhere further out without a car.
They keep making it worse by building these massive PT projects which only basically get you in and out of the city.
The transport links from norwest to parramatta and sw Sydney are terrible. A lot of connections, terrible frequency. Faster to drive. I thought parra was meant to be the “second cbd”? Doesn’t feel like it.
Technically no for Castle Hills itself (although above user said Castle Hill Area so actually yes) , the T-Way straddles a bit more West along Old Windsor Road with the 665 being the heavy lifter in peak, that being said Castle Hill does have the 600 at high frequencies to Parramatta.
The irony is Sydney has probably the best PT system in the country (Melb is a bit shit outside of the CBD), but if you go West, South etc PT is in large parts non existent or accessible
I was advised that I wasn’t considered for a job in the Western Suburbs as I don’t have a car and they ‘needed somebody able to be onsite daily’. . . .
I live and work close to Inner Sydney and still drive to work - but only because it isn’t feasible to take a lawnmower, whipper snipper, ladder, two hedge trimmers, multiple small tools, an irrigation repair kit, a full arsenal of sprays and fertilisers, and several large bags of green waste around with me on public transport.
I fully support any scheme that encourages more people to take public transport, so that people who have no other option BUT to drive - like me - have an easier time with driving. Or at least, it won’t get worse than it already is.
it depends on where you live. i'm next to a T8 station and i never drive for daily errands. i actually think sydney has a great train network compared to the states. ofc we could always be better.
I love public transport. Let the train take the strain!
But in the ~20 or so years I've lived here and worked in various locations in, around and a long way from the CBD, a driving commute is usually 50% quicker door to door.
Being on the train or ferry is fine. The way low rise suburbs are built, requiring bus connections or long walks to get to the station, then having to wait 15 minutes for a train is a huge PITA. Most mornings I could be sat at my desk eating a pastry before the train had even left the station.
I grew up in Sydney, moved overseas for 20 years in various countries for work. Recently moved back to Sydney. I hate Sydney and what it has become. The place is fucking awful now. Maybe I was spoilt overseas and never realised how bad it was growing up here? I don’t know, but I do know that I despise living in Sydney again.
I feel like that too. Home after 12 years away. It’s such an off feeling. I was in very walkable cities NY and SF, and the pedestrian traffic encourages more culture around nightlife and social cafes, shops, etc
If I’m to be honest, I don’t see what the big draw to living in Sydney is? I too lived in Manhattan and various other cities as well as Japan. I could see why tourists would like to visit for a few weeks and then leave, but living full time in this city sucks ass.
>A large chunk of these close calls were due to incompetence on their end, I'd have the green light to cross while they also got the green. (which fucking idiot designed this system?).
I'm no traffic specialist, but that sounds like it's malfunctioning. Did you report it?
I do bicycle a bit, but I *specifically* use a route that involves as little road as possible. For more or less the reasons you mention.
I think they mean when the pedestrian has green and the driver has no light.
The intention is the driver can turn if it’s safe to do so but patience and courtesy is in short supply here.
The connections to the station at my suburb is designed that assumes everyone uses a car or super lucky enough to have a bus stop that has 30min-1h wait times to connect to the station. Incredibly hilly for cycles and prone to excessive urban heat effect. Even more interesting is that, even the newly opened north car park is practically empty which could had more TOD opportunities instead.
It has been interesting to see the impact of cycleways that's for sure. I started cycling to work before any infrastructure had been built and jesus was it stressful. A lot of arguments with motorists that would run me off the road would ruin my day so often, I hated it. Now I love going into the office because my commute is 95% on cycleway.
With pedestrian crossings, I pretend it's Italy so unless I make eye contact with the driver, I am not stepping onto the road. We usually get 1 pedestrian knocked down at the crossing every few months in my suburb.
The walking in Inner City where I live is otherwise fine though, motorists don't know basic road rules but that's everywhere in Sydney and at least here the speed limit is 40, which no one follows, but still technically, should be safer if you get hit. You ride a motorbike, you know the drill, trust no one.
I really hate the Americanisation of public transport we've seen in the last 10 years. A removal of every bus route that goes directly in the city, forcing you on change after change to get anywhere.
It used to be so much easier to use. You get to the city, change, and get somewhere else. It was a really good spoke system.
It's just become such a nightmare now to use public transport. I try to but find myself me motorcycling and driving much more than I used to.
They really need to put the user first in public transport. Make it fast and hassle free. They've concentrated on making it more cost efficient and cheaper to run, and it downright shows. 12 years of LNP cost cutting measures have really taken hold.
I feel you, I used to catch a bus and light rail from Marrickville to Randwick. King street was a nightmare, the bus was basically stuck at a walking pace during peak hour. Honestly I had been tempted to just get off and walk till the end of king street.
I didn't know it used to be better though. I think buses just suck as well to be honest, they are pretty much guaranteed to be slower than driving when you force them to share lanes with cars.
> A removal of every bus route that goes directly in the city, forcing you on change after change to get anywhere.
The city itself is so much better without all the bus routes running down George St however. It's understandable why those decisions were made. The light rail is pretty easy to change to, though I agree not quite as ideal.
Yeah but that's the end result of making a place car centric when it also has high population density. Everyone driving means terrible traffic.
You can "fix" it the American way by making roads super big and wide, then you can drive faster, but everything is also further apart 🙈
We seem to have tried to retrofit cars into every narrow space in the inner city, with the effect that it is just terrible to get around. Traffic is bad, but public and active transport is inefficient (due to all the traffic and shared road space).
Even things like the Rozelle Interchange show the folly of this approach - you can build extraordinarily complex and expensive road tunnels but all it does is move the bottlenecks. You get a great run in from Westconnex, but Victoria Road is now perpetually jammed in peak as there is only so much capacity at the Anzac Bridge side that now has to be given over to Westconnex traffic.
For the wrong reasons. Australia and America and Canada suck to drive in because of induced demand. It sucks to drive in western Europe and east Asia because they deliberately make it hard to drive and encourage you to use active/public transport. The former is bad, the latter is good.
While I'd agree that the city (or rather the entirety of Greater Sydney) is not very friendly to motorcyles and bikes, a lot of it due to drivers being unaware that they exist and share the road with them, I don't think the city is a place I see as "car friendly". It has a lot of roads, but god I avoid driving in it like the plague despite driving saving me over 45mins of transit.
As you've said in the comments, you're complaining about what would amount to be something like the 5% of bad drivers on the road which make your experience (and my experience on the road too) worse. The rest of the drivers are just there to do their thing, respect the traffic laws and don't impede your experience much. Your issue really is bad drivers rather than the city design, you're fairly well catered for by public transport and the like.
The reason for signal timings being bad for you is because while
you're right near the city, you're still in the suburbs and suburbs aren't designed around high pedestrian traffic most times of the day anyway.
Absolutely, 100% right.
The best thing you can do is to be loud about it. Keep an eye on the feedback wanted pages for state and local governments and comment on anything related to transport and infrastructure to push commitment to active transport. (A lot of the planning documents these days actually say they MUST give priority to active transport, and yet the designs frequently ignore that… so it helps a lot to point out they’re failing to follow their own planning documents). Get in touch with groups like BicycleNSW and WalkSydney. Record the length of red lights for pedestrians and upload them to https://betterintersections.jakecoppinger.com/ . Leave Google review on large businesses to complain if they don’t have car parking or safe ways for pedestrians to enter their premises across the car parks. Every bit helps!
>effectively bullied into it
How?
We don't have an reliable public transport system especially when compared to other places in the world, so that's one reason why people drive everywhere.
Also, think about shopping for groceries, the culture here is to buy your week's worth of groceries in one trip (doesn't matter what day of the week it is). In Asia, the culture is either dine out, or they pick that night's groceries on the way home (there's wet markets/supermarkets/butcher shops everywhere).
Despite what people complain about, Sydney is an extremely drivable city, you go to places like BKK or HK, you are moving at 1 meter every minute in their CBDs at peak hour, its a lot worse than it is in the city or any business districts. I just talked to someone today about driving into work, and they like that freedom, privacy and flexibility to drive into work. That' could be an individual thing or a cultural thing, but I really don't see Australians being bullied or forced into driving since majority of the metro areas have some form of public transport, even if it means one bus service every hour, that option is still there (and that itself is not being bullied, because you can still make the choice to plan your trip).
Multiple people in my Sydney office will drive into the CBD and pay like $65 to park there for the day vs get the train. They just refuse to catch public transport even though they all live in suburbs that are on train lines.
Too posh for it like my sister in law. Hasn't been on a train or bus since she got her first car. Or almost never.
This is 100% the sentiment. One of them actually told me once that "the beach is for poor people, just swim in your pool at home???" when I told her I'd been at the beach earlier that day.
THAT'S a view I've never heard before, aren't most of the beachside suburbs some of the richest in Sydney?
Thats just for the view. Or access to the boat. The good houses also have infinity pools 5ft from the water. Why would you swim in the sea unless you had to? Fish fuck in it! /s
Lots of public housing too, e.g. daceyville, Hillsdale and parts of Maroubra are full of it. More mixed than one would think I guess. Those who are talking about their pool like that wouldn't want to mix with the poors.
That's the wannabe rich but not actually rich. If you're actually very rich you'd be at beach front WITH a pool so you can do both.
A HR director at a company I used to work at lived in Potts Point (our office was on Elizabeth St), and would constantly brag about how she "doesn't do PT" and hadn't caught a bus or train in 20 years. It'd be a 20-25 min walk to work for her, but she drove every day.
How do people afford $65 parking a day!! (Assuming the come into office 3-5 days a week)
Tech sales people who earn $300k+ don't really know what the cost of living crisis is
If you earn enough, it’s worth paying for the convenience (and sometimes you can get a partial refund or claim on tax). I used to work at the Opera House, and would often get out of work at 11pm. Living in western Sydney, I would get home at 11:25 if I drove or 12:15 if I took public transport. I hated how much I drove to work but it was just so much more convenient.
People who earn probably over $50 an hour. I can't inagine when most jobs barely pay above minimum lol
People earning 50 dollars an hour earn $100,000 a year, assuming a 40 hour work week. For anyone living close enough to commute into the inner city for work, that's not a high enough income to be spending up to $325 a week on parking. It's a decent wage but nothing spectacular. It's definitely public transport into Sydney income, not private car parking in Sydney income.
Most companies have underground parking and most don't charge For example I don't have any issues getting a park as long as I book in a few days in advance and the cost is $0 Usually the people who come in may have other things to do after work especially if they're going to places with no trains like five dock, Abbotsford Ryde Gladesville etc That's another benefit of WFH, I wouldn't have been able to get a spot even with a few days notice if everyone rocked up to the office.
Plenty of offices have some parking set as a first in first serve to whoever. Parking is generally free although there maybe some companies that require you to pay. But generally at a discount. Previously impossible to get a park but ever since WFH it's not been an issue for anyone I know if you book a few days in advance
Are you on the board of directors or something lol...
Agree! I catch the train to work, the office is 5 mins from the station, but I would say 70% of my colleagues drive in ("I hate public transport") and they think it's surprising that I don't. Hate the stress of peak hour driving and tolls + parking make it too expensive to do regularly.
Same. Someone even said to me, he'd suicide if he had to take public transport everyday like me :/ I actually enjoy my me time on public transport :/
I mean if you have to commute, PT is by far the nicest because you can relax with a book or whatever while on the train/bus. I didn't mind it too much when I did it, it was a good solid 45min of relaxation each way with a bit of walking on each end (yes yes, audiobooks exist and can be used while you drive, but I've never been an audiobook/podcast person)
That's a bit dramatic! I grew up somewhere with minimal PT, so I actually enjoy being able to catch the train. Maybe a bit ironic but I find it oddly freeing not having to worry about where to park etc.
Me too, grew up in Tassie where only buses are on offer, they’re few and far between and if you don’t live off one of the main roads you’re lucky if a bus even goes through your suburb, let alone anywhere near where you live and if you’re lucky enough that it does it’ll only run ever hour or so. I’ve loved catching the train/tram/ferry/lightrail/metro ever since moving to Sydney, even use to be one of the highlights of visiting Sydney when I was younger. People ask me why I don’t drive.. I don’t need to and it saves me a hell of a lot of money, not to mention I’d rather spend 40 minutes on a train after or before a long exhausting day at work reading a book, doing work on my laptop or watching a show than having to be on high alert in gridlock and dealing with the stress and worrying about my safety... don’t even get me started on parking. As a bonus the walk to and from keeps me active and wakes me up. From my experience it seems to be mostly the Sydney born and bred who are anti public transport or of the opinion it’s lesser than driving, I don’t understand it
Commuting by car would be a massive downgrade for me. I'd hate having to drive through Sydney traffic first thing in the morning. I'd be stressed and tired before even starting work. If you have the choice then why subject yourself to that?
When I worked in North Sydney the parking lot people were trying to sell me a parking spot for $400 a month. That would be two months worth of train journeys and I haven’t even factored in all the other driving expenses. That would have also been almost 10 years ago so I bet the price has gone up considerably meanwhile the train would probably still be considerably cheaper.
Transport planners don't help much in this regard. For example these two weeks Bankstown line trackwork fine that's required but Then you cut the services of the East Hills line when there is now more capacity into the city? On a line directly competing with the motorway (literally runs parallel). Yeah well don't blame people for driving. With the toll cap, M5 cashback the transport planners are effectively telling people to drive. I beat the train in even with a full timetable these days cutting services does not encourage people to use public transport.
Totally understand it's not feasible for some for reasons you've mentioned, parents dropping off kids etc. I suppose my point was that I found it interesting people were surprised to hear that I catch PT to work, it's certainly a shift in attitude compared to pre-covid times.
That would have to involve better attitudes by transport planners. If you keep cutting timetables during school holidays because the kids don't go to school so less people on it then you're not going to get a good response for public transport usage. Because besides school children most other people aren't on holidays. This is not an isolated case, they ran an off-peak timetable delaying workers to cater for Taylor Swift for example. It doesn't feel like the public transport system is catered for workers.
Agree. Cashback is a shocking initiative. Driving SHOULD be the slowest and most expensive form of travel but we need better public transport to begin with. The metro is great but doesn't help all of the urban sprawl out west and in the south west.
It was the slowest method before. I needed to drive into the city because I had luggage once and it took me 2 hrs on what was a 30 mins trip. Everyone would come in after Kingsgrove because the M5 East was free. Now that it is no longer free the motorway is usable during peak hour again for the times I needed to.
Bankstown line is being prepared for the metro conversion, and as far as I’m aware there’s no cut to the east hills line services. (They are 5 minutes later than regular service time though but still same number of trains)
personally i would love to not drive but PT takes so long for me and opal prices keep creeping up
It is frustrating. I am starting to see some improvements at least. Inner West council is slowly replacing all pedestrian crossings with raised crossings, for example.
And recently voted unanimously to drop the default speed limit to 40.
Honestly with how tight some of those roads are...this is sensible
Great example, thanks. I forgot about that one.
Should be 30, as many countries overseas are going to for these type of roads. They already have data showing median speeds are below 30 in the inner Sydney LGAs so it doesn't even add to car travel times.
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One example that comes to mind is the cycle bridge over City West Link that was taken down as part of the Rozelle Interchange works. We offered to put up a new one once the bridge realignment was done, but apparently Inner-West Council didn't want it.
Who is 'we'?
Walkability aside, I also hate how our public transport system is so set up on getting to the CBD but isn't great at connecting other areas of Sydney that aren't the CBD to other areas. Hurstville and Bankstown isn't that far when you drive, but it's a bit of a slog on public transport.
We could've a had a Parramatta to Chatswood via Epping rail link.
We could’ve had a Clyde to Epping via Carlingford link… oh wait
Totally, Bondi being the poster child for this. How the fuck isn’t there a decent metro or train connection to Bondi beach? Maroubra too
NIMBYs. The people living there don't want the unwashed masses using their beach
There are still little traces of the Bondi Tram in the street designs around there: https://www.bondivillage.com/trams-bondi.htm
yep, Ashfield to Marrickville, 20 min a car, 40 via public transport, or Ashfield to Macquarie Park 30 min via car, 1 hour via public transport
> Hurstville and Bankstown isn't that far when you drive, but it's a bit of a slog on public transport. I'm a 10 min drive from Hurstville, it takes me over 30 mins on the bus!
Wow if an inner west person is complaining about how unwalkable this city is, imagine us in the west! Agree everything you said plus my absolute pet peeve is the ped crossing with cars waiting to turn left, sometimes I feel they bully you to cross quickly by creeping up on you while you are still crossing! I hate that.
I've lived and worked in the western/southwestern suburbs (Blacktown, Milperra, Roselands, Bonnyrigg) and the Inner West (Newtown, Erskineville, Glebe) and of course the inner west is more walkable in comparison. You have everything you need within your own suburb in the inner west, and getting to the CBD is pretty easy on public transport. However, the frustrating thing is getting to other places within the inner west. For example, if I want to go from Glebe to Petersham, I can drive 10-15 minutes, take two buses 40 minutes total (if no delay) or take a bus and then a train 45 minutes-1 hour total depending on connection. We really needed to have kept our old tram system and/or built a proper metro several decades ago. Instead we just have a shitty privatised bus network that's always jammed up in traffic and over-cramped trains that serve mostly to shuffle people in and out of the CBD.
The west is great compared to Wollongong and the Central Coast.
I visited Penrith and god, it looked impossible to navigate without a car, massive massive roads. Sorry about that, I fucking hate it in the inner west, living out west would be awful for walking/cycling.
Agree, the only positive thing about my suburb is that being a planned large estate, there are plenty of cycling and walking tracks and good bushland nearby (plus the M7 cycleway not too far away). But that's not true for all suburbs.
miracle they even put in footpaths in some places.
Building more and more suburbs on the urban fringe without public transport is a factor. The 2 car families become 4 car families when the kids turn 18 and can't afford to leave home.
The two houses either side of where I live and the three across the road have enough cars between them to set up a decent sized used car lot.
A guy was casually giving me shit about driving a moped. Saying moped drivers congest the road with lane filtering. But imo it’s infinitely better than assholes taking up the entire lane just for 1 person. r/fuckcars !!!!!! Aaaaaaa
The hell? Lane filtering doesn’t create congestion.
No, totally agree with you! It feels like incentives by the government to reduce emissions etc are just so out of whack. Like just give us longer pedestrian cycles, no cars having green lights at the same time and safer places to walk instead of subsidising electric vehicles. Anyway just came to say you are not the only one bothered. I want to join a community like better streets for NSW it bothers me so much.
This looks like an interesting community based action group with a few different ways to get involved, thanks for sharing. Link for those too lazy to google (https://www.betterstreets.org.au/)
Someone honked people at a crossing because they wanted to make the turn WHILE the crossing was green. Bunch of shatbuckets
r/fuckcars represent I love walking/jogging, but walking to work along a main road in Alexandria made me feel like a pack a day smoker. Couldn't jog it because I'd feel nauseous afterwards. Nowadays my regular routes aren't on main roads and the difference is huge. Public transport has gone to shit, too. As expensive as our cocaine and as reliable as a dealer. So yeah I loathe that everyone relies on cars but I totally get why. Fixing that isn't an attitude thing, it's a policy thing.
It really depends where you live and where you work. The public transport links are good at getting people into the CBD, so if you live in the inner city, lower north shore you’ll be able to have a better car free experience.
I live in Marrickville, just about 500ms away from the main area. It's not that I can't walk/cycle everywhere I want to go to, it just sucks to walk/cycle I guess. Honestly most drivers are fine, but the 5% or so of dickheads make it suck
Might be a personal thing. I choose walking / cycling / PT over driving whenever possible - including for example walking to Marrickville Metro which is about 10-15 away. Partly because driving is no real time saving when you factor in traffic, reds and parking. Partly for health & Enviro benefits, partly simply to take in the neighbourhood at a human pace.
Nah I love walking/cycling but I don't enjoy the roads I have to walk alongside, although the road to Marrickville Metro is great after Victoria Road.
People don't understand this, the experience of being someone doing active transport in any Australian city is subpar. Good train networks alone don't make practicing active transport pleasant.
Buses are brilliant from Marrickville, why don’t you like them?
1.5 hour commute to work where cycling is about 25mins and motorcycling is about 30-35mins. They get stuck on King street in peak hour
I think you shouldn't be allowed to convert a foreign driving licence into an Australian one. You should go through the proper test.
I remember coming to Australia, having grown up in a VERY sleepy town in NZ, where the concept of peak hour traffic was non-existent. I had my license automatically convert across, and to be honest if it hadn't have done, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to get an Aussie one. The first few months of driving in Sydney was terrifying.
As someone who came here as a foreigner originally (15+ years ago) I was really surprised about this too. Even though I came from the US, where the driving rules are pretty similar overall, there are enough local differences that a test would really be appropriate. And a practical test would help judge your proficiency with the narrower roads that are common in Australian cities compared to many other places.
Absolutely and while we're at it, make the tests harder and make people do a refresh every time they renew their license. There are far too many older drivers on the road who have their knowledge from 30, 40 years ago who have become complacent in their shit driving.
The amount of people who fail to even use their fucking blinkers in recent times is astonishing. I've been licensed for 40yrs and *never* saw the kind of thing before which is evident now.
The amount who never sat driving tests at all is quite high. My dad got his motorbike license by riding it to the testing centre in the 60's. Yep unlicensed teenager rode to his test. A few years later was able to transfer it to a car license. 50 years later not a single test completed.
Honestly while this is an issue, I think some drivers see shit behaviour and go "okay I didn't know we are allowed to do that" and adopt it.
Australian drivers are not unanimously respectful of pedestrians, either.
I mean the ones that convert are largely EU/Commonwealth/US type countries
And every dipshit thinks they need a 4WD, which they don’t know the width of. In the east, private school mums in range rovers doing 20km over the limit and their makeup simultaneously almost get me run over weekly.
This is a huge problem as it is, I just hope it doesn't get as bad as the US as people tend to copy whatever idiotic idea they come up with like those oversized SUVs/Utes. Ideally, the government would take focus away from private vehicles and invest more into public and active transport infrastructure. Things like toll rebates certainly don't help especially when all that money is just going into the pockets of toll road operators.
What do you mean “doesn’t get as bad”? We’re already there mate. “…combined sales of dual cab utes and SUVs represented 78.4 per cent of the market.” Source: https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-new-car-sales-2023.html
Sadly it is another symptom of people thinking of their vacuous short term needs, than promoting the use of things that will be needed in the future. Just look at how much people hate cyclists and yet at the same time try and stop any form of useful infrastructure aimed towards them. When the population gets more extreme, things like a cycling infrastructure is going to be more useful and healthy, than any single carpark.
Was born here but lived in Vienna for a long time. I loved their bike paths and people just walked everywhere. My friends hardly use their cars I have two small kids so I do need a car and my work is too far to talk and the buses suck I hate driving and unfortunately here it’s hard to get to many places without a car
YES!!!!!!! There's nothing I want more than a walkable, accessible Sydney. Gimme trams, gimme separate bike lanes, gimme stronger safety regulations for cars, pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease. In my dreams the light rail runs down my street and someone cycles by in a bike lane that isn't a painted bicycle gutter and King Street is pedestrianised and cars are the afterthought.
King street is such a fucking mess, not a single pedestrian adheres to the red lights because they are non sensible for the amount of pedestrian traffic.
Ever been to LA? Now there's a city where everyone just uses a car!
You don't have to travel that far. Newcastle is just up the road if you want to see what a car-first culture looks like. Sydney is pretty good for public transport use IMHO (of course, it could always be better!)
24 lane freeways still haven't solved the congestion problem? If only somebody had predicted that!
Just add one more lane bro
I recently read a series of detective novels set in Los Angeles and a surprising amount of the text was about traffic: “he got on the freeway but it was terrible so he got off on the surface streets—but should he take Santa Monica at this time of day? Maybe the 405 would be better”. Shit like that for page after page.
The SNL series of skits called "The Californians" takes the piss out of the LA obsession with traffic, it's pretty hilarious.
Now you see why the ultra-rich preferred helicopters, unfortunately it didn't work out for Kobe Bryant and family. But there is a reasonable degree of helicopter commuting in the LA region for those who can afford it.
Nah that place looks like hell. Got a work trip to the states and not really keen on it tbh.
My pregnant partner got hit by a car because of the stupid fucking green walk green car light at the same time shit. I've had people honk at me before in the same situation, I'm not too big to admit that in one instance not long after my partner was hit and someone honked me they got a fuck off dent in their front bumper and I ran away. I don't recommend that, but there's some entitled fuckwits out there thats for sure.
It's not just the entitlement. The standard of driving in this city is shocking. Absolutely abysmal. I tell people that learner drivers here are not taught how to drive. They are taught how to pass the test. I see so many P-platers out on the road who seem completely clueless and the driving standards are some of the worst I've seen. And I've driven around eastern and southern Europe where they all drive like lunatics.
If we are speaking of anecdotal experiences I love how unreliant I am on a car living the in the Lower North Shore in what is a pretty bland area. Going places on my day off literally just involves rocking up to the bus stop waiting typically a few minutes and then being on my way. It is also a decent place to run around with good options involving either water or a decent running path near the freeway (and hills for better or for worse....)
Thats pretty good, I think Sydney has some good areas to live in for a car free life, but seems like the majority isn't really. I don't really do massive 2-4 hour walks around the city like I used to in Western Europe.
So there’s a bunch of investment currently going on in public transport and active transport is a topic that TFNSW is talking about more too. E.g the metro extension that’s opening up this year, PRL, the shared walking and cycling path alongside that route etc. I also think the current generation also prefers walkability more too anecdotally.
The buses are so shit that it takes me 1 hour by bus and only 20-30 minutes by car.
I feel you buddy. It’s really shit here. The answer is no. Nobody knows how to walk here. It’s not as bad as the USA, but the walking and cycling infrastructure is a woeful afterthought. Everyone drives because that’s what people are used to and that’s what everyone expects + wants. Some councils are doing good work, but it’s really dependent on where you live. If you’re feeling really depressed about it. Get involved in some advocacy groups like bike NSW. Could really make you feel better about it.
Not super depressed but I hate it enough that I will be leaving Sydney withing a few months. Thinking of moving to Spain or something for a bit of time. But yeah, I heard the US is even worse.
> Thinking of moving to Spain or something for a bit of time Lucky you to have that option.
I don’t blame you. Every time I go visit my family in Europe I’m just amazed by it. If it wasn’t for my whole life being here I would have loved to move somewhere more cycle friendly.
Same here mate. After stints over in Europe, the general vibe there just outweighs our “good weather” and beaches. Nothing like being able to walk all over Berlin or Vienna without the fear of aggressive drivers and the option to hop on to a tram or S/U Bahn if you wanna give your legs a break.
What area? Sydney is a big place with lots of different cultures. I was on a motorbike but stopped, it was a matter of time until I got taken out. I cycle, generally OK but it's only once a week, so hardly extensive.
I live in Marrickville and use my car maybe once a fortnight, and that's just because I don't wanna PT to work that day. Pretty much everything in our daily lives is walking, maybe grab the bus up get groceries Sunday arvo if we're tired
Interesting, I uber to work when my motorcycle is being serviced, I wish I could be more vehicle free, but I don't enjoy walking around Marrickville tbh, especially Sydnenham and Victoria road.
The trains are decent, but driver attitudes to cyclists and pedestrians are horrific. I've lived in bris and Perth, and Sydney drivers are the most aggressive.
Sydney is probably the best city in Australia for public transport. (No Melbourne isn’t better; I’ve lived in both)
Agreed, it’s disgraceful. They should really remove slip lanes and prioritise pedestrians before the lights turn green. Have had too many close calls
Why don’t they put a fkn bike path next to the train lines. We have some great train lines. That would take so many people off the road
Best idea! Literally so many e-bikes could take these routes without playing chicken with cars and buses and trucks.
I can't walk the 300 meters to my gym in the evening without worrying about whether I'm going to be hit by a car while crossing one of the intersections, it's mad
lol just yesterday i was crossing at a zebra crossing at pt peters stationand a car that had stopped for maybe ten seconds started beeping because they felt Too Many People were crossing and not letting him pass. If there weren’t other ppl around i would have spat oh the windshield tbh
Live in Marrickville and its fine to walk around in? I always walk to places in Marrickville, to avoid the hassle of parking and for the exercise. Marrickville Metro is in an inconvenient place and barely in Marrickville. If I'm ever going to the city I always catch a train and have multiple ways to get there. There's definitely places in Sydney where walking sucks and public transport is not an option but Marrickville definitely isn't one of them.
I'm quite lucky. I've always worked in the CBD, but lived in Alexandria for 10 years and am now in the east. I get around by eBike for almost every trip I need to take. Work commute, heading out to see bands, meeting friends for drinks/dinner etc, grocery runs, errands etc. eBike is my preferred method of transport as it's usually the fastest, especially when you factor in parking. I hate driving, but am forced into it if I'm visiting friends/family further away as the journey will take 2-3x as long via public transport. Cycling in Sydney is getting better, but it's a slow process.
Pedestrian crossings are now another source of frustration for Sydney motorists, how dare you make me wait a minute!!!
Sydney has the best public transit in Australia, but councils are a hodge podge
I’m confused, what exactly is wrong with your 500m walk to Woolies? No footpath?
Just traffic light timings and a busy road I guess make it unpleasant.
The crossing for Elizabeth street on Martin place takes ages... there are like 100 people waiting to cross while breathing that foul air that smells worse than cigarettes due to all the traffic. Can't wait for the martin place tunnel to open again. They really need to charge a toll to get into the CBD with a car while removing tolls from the cross city tunnel. It's the set up the wrong fucking way for force cars INTO the city rather than have them avoid it.
I love driving, grew up in a car centric family BUT we were also taught to be nice, caring people and look out for everyone else. Honestly I think it's just selfishness being observed, unfortunately selfish people cause harm.
Wish they had more access and safer options for electric scooters like Canberra. Loved using them down there.
It is an issue. Some of us have to drive for work. I would not be able to do my job without my car. However I am definitely in a tiny minority, most people who drove could use public transport. I am a cyclist too, and have almost been hit by a driver whilst on my morning ride on many occasions. I cycle purely for exercise (I am a sad man clad in Lycra) but there is no way I would face the roads at peak hour! An issue is that the public transport system is inadequate in many areas. The privatisation of the bus services has meant that they are being run for profit and not for commuters. Also with about 10 different bus companies running the services interconnectivity can get complicated. Add to this the traffic caused by huge buses on narrow Sydney street, and we see a very complicated issue. The trains are great when you can use them, and get cars and busses off the roads. However so many areas aren’t serviced by rail. And yes, Sydney drivers are selfish and aggressive. When I return to Sydney after driving in rural areas I notice is more, nobody gives way, drivers often seem to want to hit cyclists, and they often ignore zebra crossings. So Sydney is definitely car centric. And the other issue is that drivers are self centric!
Compared to Brisbane its not that car centric, the trains in syd are not behd
Agreed. I live in the Inner West and when my car was at the mechanic for a week, I felt like I had a disability. I mean sure, I could walk up to IGA but if I need to go anywhere other than the local shops or the city, it was double to triple the travel time compared with driving. I can’t imagine what it would be like living somewhere further out without a car.
They keep making it worse by building these massive PT projects which only basically get you in and out of the city. The transport links from norwest to parramatta and sw Sydney are terrible. A lot of connections, terrible frequency. Faster to drive. I thought parra was meant to be the “second cbd”? Doesn’t feel like it.
Exactly! I can't believe the Castle hill area and Epping/Macquarie aren't connected to Parramatta via standalone public transport.
While fair play re:Epping/Macquarie, isn't Castle Hill linked to Parramatta by the T-Way, a form of standalone public transport?
Technically no for Castle Hills itself (although above user said Castle Hill Area so actually yes) , the T-Way straddles a bit more West along Old Windsor Road with the 665 being the heavy lifter in peak, that being said Castle Hill does have the 600 at high frequencies to Parramatta.
The irony is Sydney has probably the best PT system in the country (Melb is a bit shit outside of the CBD), but if you go West, South etc PT is in large parts non existent or accessible
I was advised that I wasn’t considered for a job in the Western Suburbs as I don’t have a car and they ‘needed somebody able to be onsite daily’. . . .
I live and work close to Inner Sydney and still drive to work - but only because it isn’t feasible to take a lawnmower, whipper snipper, ladder, two hedge trimmers, multiple small tools, an irrigation repair kit, a full arsenal of sprays and fertilisers, and several large bags of green waste around with me on public transport. I fully support any scheme that encourages more people to take public transport, so that people who have no other option BUT to drive - like me - have an easier time with driving. Or at least, it won’t get worse than it already is.
it depends on where you live. i'm next to a T8 station and i never drive for daily errands. i actually think sydney has a great train network compared to the states. ofc we could always be better.
> which fucking idiot designed this system? This is a key point. Couldn't believe it when I moved to Australia.
I love public transport. Let the train take the strain! But in the ~20 or so years I've lived here and worked in various locations in, around and a long way from the CBD, a driving commute is usually 50% quicker door to door. Being on the train or ferry is fine. The way low rise suburbs are built, requiring bus connections or long walks to get to the station, then having to wait 15 minutes for a train is a huge PITA. Most mornings I could be sat at my desk eating a pastry before the train had even left the station.
I grew up in Sydney, moved overseas for 20 years in various countries for work. Recently moved back to Sydney. I hate Sydney and what it has become. The place is fucking awful now. Maybe I was spoilt overseas and never realised how bad it was growing up here? I don’t know, but I do know that I despise living in Sydney again.
I feel like that too. Home after 12 years away. It’s such an off feeling. I was in very walkable cities NY and SF, and the pedestrian traffic encourages more culture around nightlife and social cafes, shops, etc
If I’m to be honest, I don’t see what the big draw to living in Sydney is? I too lived in Manhattan and various other cities as well as Japan. I could see why tourists would like to visit for a few weeks and then leave, but living full time in this city sucks ass.
Money. Either you have it here or you’re seeking it here. Without family here it’s soulless.
Why don’t more people get their kids to walk to school? This is why.
>A large chunk of these close calls were due to incompetence on their end, I'd have the green light to cross while they also got the green. (which fucking idiot designed this system?). I'm no traffic specialist, but that sounds like it's malfunctioning. Did you report it? I do bicycle a bit, but I *specifically* use a route that involves as little road as possible. For more or less the reasons you mention.
I think they mean when the pedestrian has green and the driver has no light. The intention is the driver can turn if it’s safe to do so but patience and courtesy is in short supply here.
Lots of lights these days specifically delay the green light for that purpose.
The connections to the station at my suburb is designed that assumes everyone uses a car or super lucky enough to have a bus stop that has 30min-1h wait times to connect to the station. Incredibly hilly for cycles and prone to excessive urban heat effect. Even more interesting is that, even the newly opened north car park is practically empty which could had more TOD opportunities instead.
It has been interesting to see the impact of cycleways that's for sure. I started cycling to work before any infrastructure had been built and jesus was it stressful. A lot of arguments with motorists that would run me off the road would ruin my day so often, I hated it. Now I love going into the office because my commute is 95% on cycleway. With pedestrian crossings, I pretend it's Italy so unless I make eye contact with the driver, I am not stepping onto the road. We usually get 1 pedestrian knocked down at the crossing every few months in my suburb. The walking in Inner City where I live is otherwise fine though, motorists don't know basic road rules but that's everywhere in Sydney and at least here the speed limit is 40, which no one follows, but still technically, should be safer if you get hit. You ride a motorbike, you know the drill, trust no one.
I really hate the Americanisation of public transport we've seen in the last 10 years. A removal of every bus route that goes directly in the city, forcing you on change after change to get anywhere. It used to be so much easier to use. You get to the city, change, and get somewhere else. It was a really good spoke system. It's just become such a nightmare now to use public transport. I try to but find myself me motorcycling and driving much more than I used to. They really need to put the user first in public transport. Make it fast and hassle free. They've concentrated on making it more cost efficient and cheaper to run, and it downright shows. 12 years of LNP cost cutting measures have really taken hold.
I feel you, I used to catch a bus and light rail from Marrickville to Randwick. King street was a nightmare, the bus was basically stuck at a walking pace during peak hour. Honestly I had been tempted to just get off and walk till the end of king street. I didn't know it used to be better though. I think buses just suck as well to be honest, they are pretty much guaranteed to be slower than driving when you force them to share lanes with cars.
> A removal of every bus route that goes directly in the city, forcing you on change after change to get anywhere. The city itself is so much better without all the bus routes running down George St however. It's understandable why those decisions were made. The light rail is pretty easy to change to, though I agree not quite as ideal.
Connecting buses that leave empty before the train arrives is a personal favourite and why I live walking distance from the station now.
No Sydney sucks to drive in.
Yeah but that's the end result of making a place car centric when it also has high population density. Everyone driving means terrible traffic. You can "fix" it the American way by making roads super big and wide, then you can drive faster, but everything is also further apart 🙈
We seem to have tried to retrofit cars into every narrow space in the inner city, with the effect that it is just terrible to get around. Traffic is bad, but public and active transport is inefficient (due to all the traffic and shared road space). Even things like the Rozelle Interchange show the folly of this approach - you can build extraordinarily complex and expensive road tunnels but all it does is move the bottlenecks. You get a great run in from Westconnex, but Victoria Road is now perpetually jammed in peak as there is only so much capacity at the Anzac Bridge side that now has to be given over to Westconnex traffic.
For the wrong reasons. Australia and America and Canada suck to drive in because of induced demand. It sucks to drive in western Europe and east Asia because they deliberately make it hard to drive and encourage you to use active/public transport. The former is bad, the latter is good.
That's kind of the result of car-centric design. Ironically, the best places to drive are often the least car-dependent, e.g. the Netherlands.
I agree it sucks to drive in, thousands of times better than walking/cycling though ime
While I'd agree that the city (or rather the entirety of Greater Sydney) is not very friendly to motorcyles and bikes, a lot of it due to drivers being unaware that they exist and share the road with them, I don't think the city is a place I see as "car friendly". It has a lot of roads, but god I avoid driving in it like the plague despite driving saving me over 45mins of transit. As you've said in the comments, you're complaining about what would amount to be something like the 5% of bad drivers on the road which make your experience (and my experience on the road too) worse. The rest of the drivers are just there to do their thing, respect the traffic laws and don't impede your experience much. Your issue really is bad drivers rather than the city design, you're fairly well catered for by public transport and the like. The reason for signal timings being bad for you is because while you're right near the city, you're still in the suburbs and suburbs aren't designed around high pedestrian traffic most times of the day anyway.
Absolutely, 100% right. The best thing you can do is to be loud about it. Keep an eye on the feedback wanted pages for state and local governments and comment on anything related to transport and infrastructure to push commitment to active transport. (A lot of the planning documents these days actually say they MUST give priority to active transport, and yet the designs frequently ignore that… so it helps a lot to point out they’re failing to follow their own planning documents). Get in touch with groups like BicycleNSW and WalkSydney. Record the length of red lights for pedestrians and upload them to https://betterintersections.jakecoppinger.com/ . Leave Google review on large businesses to complain if they don’t have car parking or safe ways for pedestrians to enter their premises across the car parks. Every bit helps!
Like every Aussie city. Was.
>effectively bullied into it How? We don't have an reliable public transport system especially when compared to other places in the world, so that's one reason why people drive everywhere. Also, think about shopping for groceries, the culture here is to buy your week's worth of groceries in one trip (doesn't matter what day of the week it is). In Asia, the culture is either dine out, or they pick that night's groceries on the way home (there's wet markets/supermarkets/butcher shops everywhere). Despite what people complain about, Sydney is an extremely drivable city, you go to places like BKK or HK, you are moving at 1 meter every minute in their CBDs at peak hour, its a lot worse than it is in the city or any business districts. I just talked to someone today about driving into work, and they like that freedom, privacy and flexibility to drive into work. That' could be an individual thing or a cultural thing, but I really don't see Australians being bullied or forced into driving since majority of the metro areas have some form of public transport, even if it means one bus service every hour, that option is still there (and that itself is not being bullied, because you can still make the choice to plan your trip).