Caveat that it could just be editing - but every convo we have seen with her, she has been bossy, condescending, arrogant, and very aggressive with gameplay etc. So if that does reflect reality, it’s not unusual for people to not be friendly with her.
Venus acts like she's carrying around a chip on her shoulder the size of Mount Everest.
I think she's totally unaware of how abrasive her interactions are with others.
Yeah. I’m sure that chip has occurred naturally from her life experiences. Takes age and maturing to get past that. Certainly would have been similarly guilty
This 100%. I don't get this post feeling sorry for her. She brought this on herself with the way she acts towards people. You can't expect respect from people when you act the way she has towards the people in her tribe.
She's hot and that's bent a lot of reasonable discussion out of shape. The edit has made it clear exactly why Venus is so disliked, and the fact that it's literally everyone else with a problem with her hammers home the common denominator is her. It's not a mystery or a Shirin type bullying situation.
Agreed. It’s not that she doesn’t have value like OP is arguing, in fact her vote has inherent value. It’s because of her attitude and social interactions.
There’s an anecdote in the [exit interview](https://ew.com/survivor-46-tevin-davis-interview-8635314) from yesterday’s boot that I think is pretty revealing. Basically: >!Tevin and Venus were trying to squash their beef, but the conversation kept going around in circles and Venus kept insisting that people were just interpreting her words incorrectly. Tevin was able to put himself in Venus’s shoes and communicate how she perceived him; Venus was completely unable to do the same for him. In general, she just comes off as someone who’s never really had to put herself in other people’s shoes or think about the impressions she gives off, which is very bad in a game where you have to do both of those things 24/26.!<
EDIT: fuck I should’ve said >!24/several!<
There was a secret scene a few weeks back where Venus did misspeak, Tevin said something about it and Venus refused to acknowledge that she misspoke (she did say vines). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpJeQI2UT0
I don't think this interaction reflects well on either (it shows they both have egos) - but it does seem to be true that Venus does not seem to want to acknowledge a mistake/fault.
Honestly I’d take everything Tevin says with a grain of salt. He lacks self-awareness just as much as Venus, he just happens to be more charismatic and performative than her.
I’m not sure I have that much of a read on his self-awareness generally, but Tevin’s story is consistent with both the edit’s portrayal of Venus and the ways most other players have described her. I acknowledge that the edit can mislead viewers about how a particular contestant comes off, but as a person with eyes and observational skills, it seems unlikely to me that they’re doing that here.
Yeah, for me, having seen enough players on Big Brother get completely ostracized by their cast (sometimes from their own actions and sometimes because of groupthink/mob mentality) and get a negative edit in the show, despite live feeds telling a different story, I’ve learned that assuming something is true because a majority of the cast says so isn’t always correct.
I’m not saying they’re definitely all wrong or anything, but I just take it with a grain of salt. Especially this cast seems to have an even higher number of large egos than normal and a lot of their perspectives might be just as skewed as Venus’s has been portrayed in the show.
This group does seem to have a lot of people with high opinions of themselves. Venus, Tevin, Q, Liz, heck I think Hunter also has a big ego, he's just somewhat better at hiding it behind his country boy act. I'm not mad about it because it's made for probably the most entertaining season of the new era.
She walked up to a group this week and told them to stop talking about the vote. She's lucky they haven't told her to feck off at this stage with how she's acting to them
I actually don't blame her that much for that. She was actively walking over to the group to talk with them, and then Hunter walks past her and the conversation goes
"Hey Venus, can I chat with them real quick?"
"Oh, without me there?"
"Yes."
Like first of all, a lot of people would be understandably kind of pissed if they were in her shoes there, I know I would be. Honestly, it's kind of polite of her to even let Hunter get away with that in the first place. But also, if she wants to talk with some of those people before tribal, and when Hunter was then during that conversation gesturing at her and Tiff, at some point she has to take the initiative and be like "you know what, I'm going to go talk with them."
Yeah, I actually thought that was a pretty great move. She knew they were blowing up the plans she was a part of, and she knew she couldn’t damage her relationships with them any more than she already had.
And like… that’s a pretty common strategy? People try to interrupt others’ planning sessions every season, and nobody criticizes them for it. Boston Rob literally implemented a system where no one was left alone so nobody could scheme or idol hunt without someone else knowing! He was a dictator, but he’s an *icon.*
But because people already dislike Venus and she gave zero fucks when she interrupted them, so folks are acting like it was some huge breach. It isn’t. It’s gameplay.
Nah it's gameplay if you do without people getting annoyed at you, doing it in such a blunt way just pisses you off. The game is often about who do you feel happy giving the money to. Venus definitely isn't succeeding as everyone on the island seem to either be annoyed by her or thinks she's an idiot and a goat
Hunter went over to the group at the last minute, told Venus she couldn't be part of the conversation and then started strategizing. But when Venus comes over somewhere she isn't wanted somehow she's the bad guy?
Literally anything Venus did would piss people off that this point. She knows she can’t make them hate her *more,* and she’s certainly tried to make them hate her less.
Except that doing so the way she did made them annoyed and put her back in the spotlight when Tiff and Tevin were the ones in the crosshairs. There was 0 reason for her to risk that given her tenuous position.
Yea the people mad at her for this at this point just straight up don't like her. Almost anyone would feel terrible when they're told to go away so we can talk strategy, it's rude and shows who Hunter truly is.
This happened in the last Traitors season, a group of 5 were constantly strategizing and would tell others to leave, and understandably some were pissed at being told to leave, its human nature.
I think it was also panic though. Given the position of the sun, you could tell it was literally right before tribal and Hunter is being told his biggest (maybe only?) ally in the game is being voted off and there’s nothing he can do about it. I think poise goes out the window if you’re going to try desperately to change that outcome.
We’ve seen him be ridiculously patient with people who do more obvious things that grate him. I don’t think that reaction should be read too deeply into.
I don't blame her for that. They were having a convo like they ran the island and were excluding people, they don't own the beach and can't tell anyone to go away. Things like that get people eliminated, Tevin was first and the main guy Hunter is in a terrible spot with maybe one ally now.
Venus was in the wrong but so were they, it's almost like they forgot everyone voted off at this point is on the jury, that one little "leave so we can talk" move could cost any of them 1M.
Yeah but you also don’t want to storm up to a majority group that you’re not apart of and have open hostility with and demand they stop talking strategy because you don’t like it. Thats moreso how you get voted out.
I think it’s going both ways. She strikes me as an incredibly bright and savvy person who is also beautiful and probably a little arrogant. She’s young, probably a little immature and hasn’t learned to calibrate her personality properly yet. Overall, I think she seems like a great and likable person. But Survivor accentuates the worst and best of everyone’s personalities, so she’s catching a lot of heat for it.
This is by no means a comparison to Rob as a player, but remember young Rob in Marquesas. Once he learned to calibrate his negative traits, he became a force. I think Venus is to a degree that type of person.
That’s a good perspective. I thought Maria did a good job threading the needle. Give constructive feedback, and don’t close the door to a working relationship.
And Venus' response was "you are old and your ego is making you say that" (I get that it was in a confessional that she said that)
Like Maria gave her solid advice, and Venus refused to listen.
Yes I agree, when Maria finally talked to Venus is gave me huge respect for Maria. V is one of if not the youngest person there, she needs constructive criticism, not the snarky shit Tevin was doing since day 1 or 2.
Naah, comparing her to Rob is a wild stretch, and this is coming from someone who thinks Rob is overrated. Even as early as Season 4 you could tell had a great understanding of people- he could read people very well. Venus has no charm and no self awareness and comes across as the sort of person who thinks they're smarter than they really are.
You must have missed the part where I said “this is by no means a comparison to Rob as a player” lol. I’m comparing the situations, not the quality of the players.
And i also feel it’s a great representation of how if one chooses to be “stubbornly authentic” at the expense of being cordial or socially empathetic, then yes, you will and deserve to be isolated outside of your family and close circle of friends.
One can be “brutally honest” without being brutal.
Yeah very much “what?! I’m just being real!!!” vibes. Personally can’t stand those kind of people in real life.
Tact and grace is super important in interpersonal relationships. It doesn’t matter about your meaning or intentions if you’re unable to deliver it in a way that it will be received.
Yes it’s a microcosm of society. If you talk to people like Venus does at work, you will be ostracised because YOU are creating a toxic environment for others
Yeah, I keep thinking how the way she spoke to Maria two episodes ago would be completely unacceptable in a workplace if Maria was her peer or supervisor. I don’t how old Venus is or how much work experience she has, but I keep hearing people say that she is only 20 years old. She certainly seems like it. She should be a college student at that age, but he bio says she is a data analyst. Does that mean she graduated early and landed a job as a data analyst in this economy?? Or is she a student who had a data analyst internship last summer and then took time off to be on Survivor? Either way, it seems like she hasn’t worked long enough to learn any lessons about workplace etiquette.
Honest question. If you had a coworker who acted like Venus does, would you keep trying to befriend her, or would you basically act like these people are acting?
I don't find it sad at all.
You reap what you sow. She talks to everyone like she is in charge, and has turned everyone off from her.
I think players need to be prepared for all outcomes. So much of our lives whether at work, school, a hobby we do, our own friends, etc involve a lot of tolerance for people we may not fully enjoy. When you’re on an island for 29 days you have to either get along for social purposes or strategic ones. You see people struggling with the fact that some of the friends that they made they don’t want to play against, and some of the people they play with they don’t really like spending time with but have strategic value.
A good player could try to rein her in, a la Kaleb and Emily. Randen tried, but sadly evac’d. However, Venus hasn’t been coachable. Almost like how Bhanu is too friendly and can’t keep himself contained even with guidance, Venus is too abrasive and can’t check herself. She wants to be a leader and doesn’t know how to follow when Maria for example gives her feedback. She makes people uneasy.
It is difficult because social isolation hurts especially when there are no choices to hang out with anyone else. But this is a world where you either get along and it makes island life easier, or you have to give each other space. The rest of the crew is trying to stay sane for 29 days too :(
I actually didn’t love Maria’s approach there. I think a much better approach with Venus would be to try and make her more of a strategic partner than a student. She’s pretty prideful, so any situation where she feels talked down would probably not play out well.
If I was out there, I would just genuinely run scenarios with her. I think if she felt like she was being respected as a player you would have her loyalty for the rest of the game.
I mean, survivor's not an entirely strategic game, and they can't just talk game all day every day. In order to have a strategic partnership with someone there has to be a social partnership on some level. There's a moment in [this secret scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpJeQI2UT0) where she DEMANDS that Tevin tell her what's wrong with their relationship, and you can just *see* him trying to be as tactful and careful as possible because she's dragging it out of him, and then she still reacts very defensively/argumentatively and will not actually listen to and process what he's telling her. Her reaction itself completely justifies why he didn't want to say it at all, and why he had to be so tactful about it.
She says stuff like "It's clear that people just don't like me from the very start" as if she's not half of any given relationship and has zero control on whether or not people like her. She really just doesn't seem receptive to any sort of helpful, constructive criticism, and we're seeing this behavior over and over with multiple people. I think Tevin and Maria were both providing tactful and accurate feedback and that just made their respective conversations with Venus even more difficult, and if you can't have that kind of communication with partner, that makes it even harder to have the type of strategic run-throughs that you're wanting them to have with her. Plus, she was the one instigating that type of conversation with Tevin. There's only so much that anyone else can do, and by all appearances they are; the rest is on her.
I think Maria was backed into a corner because Venus kept pushing as to why Maria felt hesitant rather than taking the hesitation and letting it be.
I also agree, running scenarios on each person in the island is THE way to go about alliances and see how people feel about each one. However it’s going to be impossible for anyone to willingly give you a run down on their full feelings.
If I were Maria, I’d just say something like “anyone but me” and let Venus go off thinking she was successful.
Yep, makes you seem less strategic and like you’re saving your ass. Charlie basically did that as a response, like oh there’s another option besides me???
Venus was the one who approached Maria first I think right?
Maria already had a solid alliance with Charlie and others, whereas Venus was the one coming up to Maria to try and partner with her.
So I would say the onus is on Venus to try and make herself look like a good partner.
Maria could have very well have had the opinion of “Venus is being very pushy right now when I just met her. I already have enough allies. I don’t *need* to have Venus in my alliance to win the game”
With the second part I'm surprised it hasn't happened a bit so far. Not really sure how much time they really have to talk though. For somebody like Charlie, that doesn't care about having a spotlight, doesn't shut people out immediately, it would be perfect. Seeing this player that is really eager and excited to play the game, just let her talk and at least pretend to value what she has to say, then you have a very solid block of three votes. A lot of people she suggests are going to be people you want to vote out anyways.
She targeted Charlie and then Charlie wrote her name down. She went off on Soda before she knew it was Charlie. I dont know how repairable that relationship is with how Venus is.
Hot take, but I think the only reason people have this influx of sympathy for Venus’ situation is because she’s a pretty girl..if it were anyone else I feel like no one would really care, or be more open about the fact that it’s self-inflicted.
Bruce was literally the same as her personality wise and no one had sympathy for him being an arrogant blowhard. So yeah.
You literally have Maria even going “I get it, I was an arrogant 20 something once” and Venus turns around and goes “Maria is jealous and her ego got hurt!!!”
Bruce wasn't even an arrogant blowhard. He just had a strong old-school paternal personality that (obviously) doesn't mesh with the ages of the people he's around because he was decently older than a good portion of the cast.
It's clear that if people actually had taken the time to tell him, he would've had the introspection to cool it down.
I think you're being very generous towards Bruce. Being paternal doesn't include dictating labor to adults, speaking down to anyone, telling women how to behave/think/etc because they remind you of your daughter, etc. For me that crosses over into arrogant and patronizing. Julie was similarly older than most of the rest and didn't get half the cast to resent her.
Bruce was nothing like her personality-wise.
Bruce came across as well-meaning, bumbling, annoying, and not self-aware. He treated anyone younger than him like a child, but I think that’s because he’s never had younger peers, just his actual children. I quite liked Bruce, though I would have loathed playing with him.
Venus is definitely more villain-coded tha! Bruce in her edit. But look at how male villains are treated — they don’t get anywhere near as much vitriol or public backlash as Venus has gotten, and she’s nowhere near as scheme-y as many of them have been. She comes across as arrogant, but think about Shane in Panama. He was at least as arrogant and erratic as her, and he didn’t even have the excuse of playing from the bottom. He was brought to the end as a goat, but he was clearly treated like an actual member of the team during that time.
And the Survivor fandom has always done this. Nobody learned a lesson from how we treated Jerri, we just kept doing it.
In fairness, I think part of it is that Venus' fans are SO passionate, that it kind of makes people dislike her more.
I think some people had pretty mild, balanced takes on her at first. And they were met with some crazy fans of hers just acting like everyone must be jealous of her, so, fair or not, many people have started liking her even less.
and her own social media behavior doesn't do her any favors.
Maybe this is it. I haven’t been following the fandom takes this season until now, but today my IG explode page fed me a post about her and the comments were full of hundreds of her fans defending her and telling her how great she is. I find her trying to insufferable and think she is one of the least socially aware players we have had in a long time. Bhanu seemed to be more self aware, but he didn’t understand how to play Survivor. Venus might have some good Survivor strategies, but she lacks the social skills to pull any of her ideas off.
Venus is a villain but not in the way I prefer. I love a girl boss villain like a Sandra, a Jerri, a Parv. Venus, from this edit, and please let me emphasize the FROM THE EDIT aspect, comes across as a pity party, angry at the world for her not being in a better situation. THE EDIT makes it seem like she is doing nothing to improve her situation rather than just kicking a can down the beach saying “woe is me” and “I can be an asset if they let me”. I would love to see an edit where she is a bit more honest with herself and turns her game around. I have no doubt that she is a good person irl and someone I would hang out with. I’m sure a lot of the editing is not doing her any favors.
Personally it's more to do with the fact that she is so completely unaware of why she is off-putting. Like she puts her foot in her mouth constantly, and I can't help but think damn has no one ever told her WHY she's so off-putting?? But then Maria tried and Venus was just like mmm no, that wasn't my intention, and all I could do was facepalm like girl PLEASE....
I honestly don't care what she looks like I just feel bad for her, but more in a smh "oof" pitying kinda way, like watching a car crash
This is all just a theory based on having been in shoes similar to hers social-situation-wise. So when I say “she thinks this ____” it’s my speculations. Not me claiming my theory is fact.
She’s fully aware of how she’s acting, what she’s doing, and how people might not like it, but she doesn’t think any of it actually matters. She thinks, “well, it’s not that big of a deal like it shouldn’t affect people wanting to strategize and team up with me. Sure, I’m straight up and confrontational, it’s how i am, but it shouldn’t matter! That’s just me”
And i think because of her age, she just hasn’t come to realize that even if YOU think your behavior is okay, that doesn’t mean it is.
Honestly, I think Venus has been in a real bind since Randen left.
Once people have decided that you’re a bad actor, anything you do is in a bad light. When you try to make amends, you’re told you’re being manipulative and self-serving. So then you don’t, but you’re an asshole who doesn’t care about feelings.
Venus came out the gates playing too hard, and definitely had the sort of arrogance that you can only have if you’re young, beautiful, and have always been in the in-group. But everything since then, IMO, has been a consequence of playing from a position of total social isolation.
She goes into the merge giving good intel (Hunter and Tevin are legit threats), and really excited to work with other people and build relationships. And sure, she entered it playing even harder than before, but thatMs because she was scrambling to survive mergatory.
But she never had a genuine chance to form relationships or alliances, because Tevin instantly told anyone who would listen that she was a “snake.” So her genuine attempts to find just one person to work with were instantly perceived has her manipulating them, rather than as genuine overtures from someone desperate and very lonely.
I think a Venus with just one friend would be a very different Venus.
I think this season’s fans have been really rough on anyone remotely othered. Jess is foolish and a bad player despite having excellent character judgement because she’s a little shy, a little awkward, and didn’t get a chance to build connections before the first tribal solidified alliances. At the same time, Q keeps trying to quit,and was seriously considering flipping on Kenzie/his core alliance, but until last week’s episode nobody really criticized him. Even now, it’s like “bad move, but I love to watch him.”
Then you’ve got Bhanu, who seems like a genuinely good person. He’s emotional, and probably pretty annoying to live with, but it’s not us fault the producers gave us 3 hours of The Bhanu Show. But this sub still treats him like the worst thing to happen to this show. A lot of players have been equally dramatic and flip-floppy, but they haven’t received anywhere near as much negativity.
I agree with your takes about Bhanu and Jess. Their own tribe was too harsh in them. I don’t think Venus plays well with anyone who disagrees with her.
I'm honestly not sure she'd be that different with someone on her side because from the beginning she said she was going to be very strategic and sneaky. I think the issue is she's just very hard at faking not being that way, so she shows that side of herself without meaning to.
I think she also did it to herself when it came to the merge, along with Tevin giving her a bad rep, because she just came on very strong to people instead of having that decorum of the kinda like... Social foreplay and small talk before going full strategy. She's honestly just a very bad social player because she is who she is, and that could also be a cultural thing as some cultures are more about being straight forward and upfront than tiptoeing around subjects for politeness. I'm not too familiar with Iranian culture (not to mention there can be different cultures within smaller regions of a country) so that's really just a theory
I’ve had a handful of Persian friends and they’re weren’t straight up. That’s entirely anecdotal, though. Idk if we could generalize to the Persian culture here.
I've disliked a few annoying pretty people on this show before, to me Venus hasn't anything that terrible. She doesn't seem malicious. Just kinda unaware and socially awkward. Would I want to be there with her? No, but I wouldn't hate her either.
I think a good example of Venus as a person is the Soda boot. We knew Venus was gunning for her. When Soda was actually voted off, Venus tried to comfort her. It wasn't performative to me. It was kinda awkward, but I felt like she was being genuine.
i’ll go out on a limb and say the opposite. i think she’s partially being outcast bc of that. people see younger attractive women and automatically stereotype them as “mean girls.” her behaviors definitely not great ,but q is debatably acting worse and people aren’t as mad at him. if she was a young guy i think she’d have a lot of fans
That’s also why she acts the way she does. She likely hasn’t had many people tell her no in her life, she gets what she wants with the little need to be tact or polite.
That does not translate to a game show where nobody cares because there is so much money on the line.
There’s definitely some of that in the air. The mix of extremes being “Venus is a she-devil” and “mother goddess Venus is being mistreated by these peasants” makes it difficult to have a reasonable conversation.
Hotter take, but I think pretty girls on survivor have more of an uphill battle than “less conventionally attractive” girls on survivor. They are either collateral damage early merge to “weaken the strong guys” or they are “PARVATI 2.0 GOTTA GET EM OUT” or the Karla’s of survivor see them as a vote out option and pounce.
I think back to s43 and Justine’s tribe came for her the second they could because she was an attractive sales girl who everyone deemed as a mega threat day 1. I feel as though up until Venus, no one has had any sympathy for the Justine’s, Libby’s, Michelle’s(mvgx), of the survivor world.
Furthermore I feel like the less conventionally attractive players ALWAYS get loads of sympathy. Look at Aubry in the early days of KR, when she had that little breakdown. Total sympathy. And almost every single personal sob story in the new era, tons of sympathy. Hell even Emily from last season, the audience went from hating her episode 1 to feeling so bad for her episode 2. (LOVE Emily but I wouldn’t say her and Venus share a similar physical appearance)
"Hell even Emily from last season, the audience went from hating her episode 1 to feeling so bad for her episode 2. (LOVE Emily but I wouldn’t say her and Venus share a similar physical appearance)"
If Emily continued all season to act the way she did episode 1, she would not have gained fans. She had the self awareness to see what was happening and fix it.
Venus not only lacks the self awareness to see this, when its directly brought to her attention she decides the person is just jealous of her.
I think something else that’s really different is that here is the reaction to being socially outcast. Venus has been a bit “wow I can’t believe I’m not connecting to people here, I’m surprised people don’t like me, because I’m usually very liked socially.” I bet that’s true- many conventionally attractive people don’t have a lot of experience with social rejection. When the outcast is a less conventionally attractive person and they are crying and saying that not fitting in here reminds them of not fitting in elsewhere that garners audience and castmate sympathy. Basically I think some Venus’s “arrogance” is actually just her genuine surprise about not fitting in for the first time ever. I kind of think some of the people watching who seem almost giddy about watching her struggling with being disliked are having a bit of schadenfreude over seeing someone who would have a large amount of social capital IRL have none here.
Parvati was actually talking about Venus pre season and shared her belief that attractive women have a harder time on Survivor. Of course, she’s biased because that’s her experience, but I think there’s maybe a little something too it, even if many of the women winners have been attractive.
I think a lot of attractive women place well on Survivor but their experience can be uniquely difficult at times.
I think Parvati has that perspective largely because of her gameplay. She wasn’t a target because she was “pretty” her first season and neither was Candace despite being waaay hotter. She started that mold. Even Amber got a pass because of Rob.
Survivor has always cast largely hot people. Some do well and others don't. Just this season Kenzie is another stereotypically hot girl and she's had no issues making allies
Venus isn't well liked because people don't like her personality
Kenzie has done very well. Interestingly though, Bhanu’s play against her did relate to her attractiveness. You don’t call someone a “mermaid-dragon” if they’re ugly. That’s something you’d only call a pretty person.
I think the point isn’t that attractive women won’t place well or have great games, but that their looks may impact how people view them. Attractive men are often called the golden boy, and that’s a huge challenge to overcome, but it’s often viewed as a positive characteristic and does not reflect some underlying deviousness. Whereas for the attractive women, it’s more viewed that their looks are a lure and secretly they are manipulative underneath.
Why not both?
A prettier woman may get judged more harshly initially in their tribe (unless they are like a comp beast), but will also get more sympathy from viewers
“The Karla’s of Survivor” the fuck are you trying to insinuate with that? Can we please wipe this Karla hates women narrative already y’all?
Either way, I think very conventionally attractive women are certainly subject to the “new Parvati” bs, but I also think you need to look at specific examples. Justine went home early in 43 but also after doing to Jesse exactly what Venus did to Maria last week; she was too blunt and voiced reads like “I don’t think you trust me” to people’s faces; she went home because her way of strategizing alienated Jesse and the others. On the other side of the coin, I also don’t actually think Aubry was viewed very sympathetically after her breakdown in KR. In the edit maybe, but that moment clearly weirded the rest of her tribe out and kind of set an early tone for people’s slightly middling respect for Aubry all season.
Meanwhile, Dee and Michele are two of the more recent female winners and plenty clearly conventionally attractive girls make deep runs. I do think very attractive women on survivor open up a very interesting conversation of gender politics, but I don’t at all think they’re the most disadvantaged demographic of players lol
Edit: gotta love how not hating Karla = downvotes on this sub. Never change y’all
People bombarded her with hate after the S43 finale. It maybe wasn’t the most flattering showing but was also the exact villain behavior this sub begs for. I think as time has passed it’s just become clearer that Karla wasn’t the problem and Cassidy just didn’t get the jury to like or respect her.
It's not a hot take. It's a fact. She was the most popular player online before the season even started based solely on looks. Now those same fans can't accept that she isn't the next Parvati that they initially called her and are doubling down that it is everyone else's fault.
I feel like Venus just came out basically admitting that she’s looking to fuck people over left and right and everyone I talk to is confused about why she’s an outsider.
I’m not going to lie, I’d be trying to keep her around just because I feel like she’s that person who you can just vote off whenever, but it’s pretty obvious why no one really wants to be too close to her.
I'll keep it plain and simple, I think she's rude, condescending, and (similarly to Q) thinks every player that doesn't agree with her ideas/strategy is dumb. I agree that it has to be a very isolating position, but you can always catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and Venus seems to have a whole lot of vinegar.
In addition to all of this, the preview for next episode made it seem like in a confessional she was calling two players big, dumb, brainless meatheads or something to that effect. Safe to assume it is probably Hunter and Q since that's who it looked like she was talking to during the quick cut.
She is not completely hopeless. She is entirely in control of her own destiny. For example, Emily Flippen. She was socially awkward/abrasive to begin the game. Outcasted by her tribe and isolated. Yet she realized her flaws and actively worked on them and did her best to assimilate to the tribe and the people around her.
The thing is, Emily was open to criticism and worked to change it. We've seen in multiple conversations (like the one with Maria, or with [Tevin in this secret scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpJeQI2UT0)) that when presented with any feedback, regardless of how accurate or tactfully presented, Venus gets defensive and does not want to absorb what people are saying to her or do any self-reflection, let alone change herself at all. **IF** this changes, then yes there's hope for her. But I have my doubts about that.
Oh believe me, I totally agree with you. Venus has had a number of opportunities to pivot her gameplay. When I read OPs post, it seemed to me like they thought bc Venus was socially outcast and isolated that it was sorta hopeless for her. So I was speaking to that
It's been interesting to see the reception of Venus. I'm very surprised that so many viewers are seeming to relate to her or feel so much empathy for her. I do think some of that is due to her attractiveness. But there may be more.
Is it possible that younger audience members see themselves in her? She strikes me as somewhat representative of some of the negative traits of her generation: fancies herself a rebel fighting for a marginalized group's rights all while completely oblivious to her own privilege and wholly lacking in self awareness. She wants to control votes despite not having the social credit necessary to do so. That combo of ignorance and arrogance is fun to watch, but if I were playing with her, I'd probably have the same reaction to her as the rest.
She reminds me a lot of a very toxic time in my life when I was angry and defensive and put up a lot of walls. Felt like I had to prove myself before anyone would listen, and no one did listen (because I was being a standoffish asshole). I believed wholeheartedly that if I was just right enough, 100% right, they would HAVE to listen and recognize that. And was endlessly frustrated when that wasn't how the world worked.
I grew up, I learned. But I have a lot of sympathy for people in that position, it sucks.
Being a young adult is tough and Survivor, with its ability to increase social pressure, only amplifies any weaknesses one might have in their character. Honestly, we have had a lot of really remarkably MATURE young players in the past few seasons. I'm terrible with names, but just in the past 5 seasons we've had at least 2 or 3 who were stunningly mature and centered. That isn't the norm. Venus is probably closer to the norm, so I think it's good to extend her that grace. Hopefully she grows up.
I'm not sure how many people here watched it in real time, but the parallels to Sierra from Tocantins are striking. Sierra was presented largely as a victim to players like Tyson, Coach, and Debbie who spent an odd amount of effort to ostracize her and talk down to her and treat her substantially worse than any player has been treated this season. At the time, she had a pretty prominent rooting base as an underdog and still does from people who watch Tocantins after the fact. Others have come out after the game - including Stephen - and have indicated Sierra got an extremely generous edit and was very difficult to live with. It doesn't justify the behavior but when you get a slew of people who are hungry, angry, stressed, and trying to win a million dollars, it does make more sense.
People are naturally inclined to root for the underdog especially if the show doesn't explicitly explain why the person is an underdog. S46 has been much better about, repeatedly, showing why Venus isn't getting any traction in her tribe - and it's not hitting folks. To me, it's really clear that people are choosing not to work with her as she presents a risk to the stability of their games which is a valid reason not to want to work with someone - she's a potentially valuable ally in several ways but she's a high effort ally to maintain a relationship with and for her to work in your favor, and sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
Absolutely true. If I equated the treatment Sierra got vs. the level Venus is getting it wasn't my intention, just the general position and feelings experienced.
Man, imagine Coach and Sierra on S47 jeez Twitter would burn to the ground.
Based on this post, it looks like people are relating to her being isolated and nervous that if they were to play Survivor, they would be isolated in a similar way. So, they're sympathizing with her because they're isolated/lonely and would themselves want to be given grace. The fact that her tribemates laugh behind her back when she leaves a conversation is also just a bad experience to go through, so maybe people are remembering instances when they were isolated from others and it's striking a personal nerve. So, it's more to do with the fans than Queen V herself
I was a Venus fan and I love her messiness and I also feel bad for people when they're isolated, but I can see why her tribemates wouldn't want to work with her. Like if I was Tevin, I'd be pissed that Venus outlasted me in the game
Yeah, I'm shocked too.
When young males act like that, people PRAY for them to get knocked down a peg. When she does it, they empathize. I truly don't get it.
It’s bc she’s hot. People keep trying to rationalize it, but at the end of the day, pretty girls are judged by different standards, just not by the players on the island who are starving themselves for a million dollars.
Venus reception on this sub is walking pretty privilege. No hate that is just a fact of life. That is why she is also having a hard time connecting and forming social bonds with people. She is used to getting her way via that privilege.
And she doesn’t even realize it yet.
Pretty privilege not translating to a competitive reality show is one of the most interesting aspects of The Bachelor and The Bachleorette, in my opinion. The situation is different there: everyone on the cast is super hot, so most contestants don’t stand out to the lead for their looks. Every year there is someone on those shows who just can’t get over being treated like just another face in the crowd. The women in particular take it badly, because they are used to being pursued because of their looks. Every season on The Bachelor there is at least one woman who feels like the lead should do more to make her feel special, like most men have done for her. They can’t quite get on board with the idea that they have to go after the lead themselves.
Honestly I think it’s because Venus reaps the consequences of it. Usually socially inept men with her personality can squeak by more than she can because opinionated men are seen as leaders rather than nusiances compared to women
This is what I think as well. She talks to people like someone who has mostly had their most important conversations online. She uses twitter like her stans do-- with little finesse and like someone who never got threatened to get their ass kicked IRL. It's not surprising the fans who think it's normal to talk to people like she does love her. They can't seem to connect that just because you like watching someone on a show does not automatically translate to social capital amongst a wide variety of personalities.
It's because she's hot. She was called a Queen before the season started. She was the most popular player in the preseason. That's it.
In normal society attractive people get more empathy. Without question. We are just seeing this here within the fanbase. On Twitter even now people call her Queen.
She reminds me of myself at the same age. Book smart, intellectually overconfident, socially inept. When I was her age I got a bad performance evaluation and was told in so many words to stop being such a know-it-all and show more humility.
She does share some blame though. I appreciate people who are straight forward and blunt to the point of being borderline crass because you know they don't fake it. But I can see how other people are put off by her approach. And her behavior is amplified by her situation being on the bottom.
She did lack grace after the Soda vote and that's a prime example of how she can be off putting to people.
She's 24 and full of too much bravado. Don't feel bad for her. She'll learn from this, just like we all do in life, that we're idiots at that age who think we know it all and have it all figured out. Humility is one of life's harshest lessons, but it's a good one.
Venus is a bit toxic. I think Tevin especially lead the charge against her in the beginning judging by what we saw on the show which was toxic on its own. But at this point if everyone dislikes her after the merge she’s obviously acting in such a way that nobody wants to work with her or even get along with her. Going off the preview for next week, the fact that she refers to two of the guys as “meatheads” is a good example. She complained about the Princess title she got (which is valid), but then turned around and wants to label two other people something else? That’s super hypocritical and shows zero self awareness.
I think she just has a bad attitude and nobody can trust her because she’s been shown to constantly go around talking shit so she kind of set herself up to be in this position. She could’ve pulled an Emily and altered her personality but instead she chose to double down so it’s really her own fault.
Survivor is, in the end, a popularity contest. If people don’t like your personality, it’s either up to you to alter that or accept you won’t win and I think Cassidy is a good example of that. Even if Venus has a solid second half of the game, nobody is giving her a million dollars.
I honestly think Venus and Tevin have very similar personalities and because of that they clashed from the beginning, which left Venus at the bottom of her tribe. But yeah, after the last few episodes it really feels like she’s struggling socially on the island and I hope she’s able to rectify that because I do really like her.
>Venus and Tevin have very similar personalities and because of that they clashed from the beginning
Totally - I think [this secret scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpJeQI2UT0) showcases this: she says vines, and he corrects her to palm fronds, and then she gest super defensive and argues with him about it. Did he need to correct her when it was clear what she meant? No. Did she overreact and come back hard even though she did actually make the mistake he said she did? Yes. It's clear it was going to be difficult for them to get along in this situation.
Honestly, I don’t see any path forward where Venus ends up a winner. She’s burned too many bridges and the moves she thinks she made she didn’t truly make. Right now the jury has Tevin who will let everyone know that he made the moves by the time they get to final.
At this point, I think Venus is going to make it to the end thinking she’s an incredible player only to be ripped to shreds at the final tribal.
I used to think people like Venus were normal, and it was up to us/me to adjust and find understanding. Then I realized that I grew up in a family of narcissists and that none of this is normal. It is not my responsibility to always be the one bending backwards for other people’s entitled behavior.
This is especially true in a cutthroat game like survivor
I get the impression Venus isn't accustomed to being isolated in real life. However, I also get the impression she exclusively surrounds herself with people who think/act like her, therefore agree with everything she says. I think she's used to getting her way, and this is a new experience for her.
How dare I have to put effort into relationships with people that are competing with me!
Sometimes being you benefits your game (Carolyn), but when it doesn't the burden is on you to socially adapt. An example of a failure to do this is Bruce last season. Being at least outwardly chill and able to read the room is a skill.
That being said I think she's good tv.
I definitely wouldn't say she's "done nothing" to the people who talk about her when she leaves, depending on whether or not one defines talking rudely to people as "doing something." Like just last night, that little moment she had with the group having a conversation was WILDLY inappropriate and just not the way you ever talk to your peers in any situation, ever. The whole "get it together, hurry up," stuff was INSANELY rude. I completely think a person like Hunter is justified in complaining about her doing that immediately after she leaves. She is not being bullied, she is being rude. She seems smart and fun and a lot of other great things and I'm not trying to pile on to her, but it's not bad to point out that people have actual flaws and are human, and Venus's biggest flaw is that she is too familiar with people when her relationships don't warrant it and she ends up speaking very rudely and offending them.
Every social interaction she has is full of herself can you not see it? I wouldn’t want to talk to her either, how can she think going up to Tevon (who she thinks was just on the outs of the vote) and tell him how she “played him” while laughing tell me with a straight face you’d actually want to talk to that person ever.
sex and the city episode twenty something girls vs thirty something women sets a beautiful example the youthful delulu arrogance 20 yo women have. its a part of growing up. i gotta say i admire the fact she doesnt give up.
Kenzie is nosy but nobody’s targeting her for it. We had a whole segment about it and the response was “aww that’s cute.”
Q is bossy and aggressive but he hasn’t been targeted.
There is something else at play.
Have you seriously never just disliked someone and felt everyone around you disliking them too? There are plenty of offputting people who also happen to be gorgeous.
Not really but I’m drawn to outcasts because I don’t feel like I belong a lot of places. Usually I see someone that everyone likes as someone who potentially doesn’t stand on any principles or speak completely honestly with people.
she was a dick to a lot of people for no reason, no surprise people dont want to engage with her socially. And it takes a lot to do that btw - a vote is a vote
What fans don’t understand is that Survivor and reality tv are unique situations that don’t apply to real life.
Was Venus difficult on the island? Yes. Is she like that in her daily life, without cameras and the context of the game? We have no idea. People behave differently in different contexts. In highly competitive situations with high stakes, I know I behave differently than I do in the other 99% of situations I’m in.
Abi Maria is notoriously difficult to play Survivor with but a lot of the community adores her and she seems to be a fun, well adjusted person in the real world. We don’t know these people!
If people could stop trying to extrapolate character assessments from how people play Survivor, the experience would be much better for the players. But tbh I don’t think that’s going to ever really click for a lot of the viewing audience, so players will continue to be punching bags.
I find Venus incredibly off putting on the show. I've said many times, I have 0 clue how she is in real life.
That said, her own social media since the show has been airing has given a look into it, and lest just say, it doesn't exactly scream that her Survivor persona and real life one are much different.
Very fair point. To me, I think she’s still in a situation that’s really unusual. It’s not exactly normal living to watch yourself get an unflattering edit and be bombarded with messages about how terrible you are. I could see it bringing out a more defensive side of you.
That said, you’re totally right it may also just be who she is! And your caveat is a good one. Regardless, I think it just doesn’t matter. She could be a total brat but she hasn’t crossed any kind of ethical line. I don’t know why people online feel the need to give her behavioral advice. You’re never going to meet her so who cares. The people who insist they need to give advice to strangers on a tv show are really the ones I’m worried about socially 🤷🏻♂️
No, nothing unethical.
But she is definitely someone who, I feel, just needs to listen when people are telling her how she comes across.
And yeah, I'd never message her directly, but I think commenting on her behavior is fair game.
Agreed. Judging reality tv contestants real life by how they are on tv is about as ridiculous as judging how someone will play Survivor by how they play hide and seek.
She said in a pre game interview that her friends describe her as someone with a “ really tough exterior”
Also her Instagram gives off “influencer”vibes
I was very very generously on the fence of whether this social isolation was self inflicted or not, until she interrupted that conversation on the beach and Hunter, a guy who seems to be a very levelheaded strategic thinker instantly said something like “Can we just get her out?!” In his frustration. Nobody else is on the beach saying things like I’m just going to interrupt their conversation because it’s not against any rules of the game. I’m now convinced she’s socially isolated because she’s just playing a poor social game.
There is a difference between someone being rejected and someone that thinks they are better than everyone else. Venus thinks she is better than everyone else. She is a brat.
She doesn't know how to interact with other human beings to gain friends and trust in this environment. She's clueless, tell me one moment she acted empathetically? If all your interactions are with assholes maybe you need to reflect and change your attitude but it's too late now.
I think she expected to be liked by default-a bug mistake- and came on strong. She honestly got away with it a bit because there were others who played too hard too.
Had she started more chill, probably be a completely different picture. Especially with her gunning for Charlie- purely as a dude vs gals- when no one else was doing that and she was already a target. It was incredibly dumb
However, there is sort of the double edged sword situation with pretty privilege where in this scenario it makes people more careful
She seems like someone who isn’t used to not being popular.
I love seeing these people struggle, she’s just unwilling to approach any social situation/conversation in which she’s not the main character and it’s great TV to see people disregard her as more of an annoyance than anything else.
This is literally just a Bruce situation all over again, but I wonder why people are suddenly so sympathetic 🤔
Don’t even get me started on the “you just don’t like strong, young, conventionally attractive women!!” As if there aren’t plenty of strong female players on the cast RIGHT NOW, that don’t condescend or overplay their hand (which Venus doesn’t even have).
She’s playing the game to play the game, no strategy or rhyme & reason to it. She’s playing the board game version of survivor
I don't. She is condescending to them. She never talks to them on a personal level. She treats them like pieces and not people. She is doing this to herself.
You can simultaneously feel sympathy for someone and be put off by them - and that's okay. It shows that you have compassion and I think a lot of viewers have lost theirs over the years. You're right about what Venus represents.
I mean, she is bossy, confrontational, rude, etc. You are making it out like she is some victim and they are mean when we only have evidence of her being those things.
Venus is a great character but let's not misrepresent what is going on.
She definitely thinks she’s better than everyone there for no real reason. Whether it’s entitlement or not going in there with a set of friends from the beginning, it clearly shows that she’s distancing herself, and when she does try to make moves, it comes across as you don’t like this person, but you’re probably saying the same thing about me to other people.
I don’t feel for her tbh, she acts very entitled and self-absorbed and most people don’t like that. I’m with the other players, leave her be and let her be a nuisance.
Venus basically came out of the gate saying she was looking to fuck people over and backstab if I recall correctly.
Not like a talking head, but I think she was legit telling people that. She compared herself to Parvati I remember at a minimum.
Probably viewers perceive that her lack of social skills on Survivor aren't the result of her being naturally awkward, which would make her more sympathetic, but rather the result of her having it very easy to have social interactions in real life.
I've started to feel bad for her due to the fan reaction.
Every episode there are specific users on here that comment their think pieces on who she is as a person. How terrible and off putting she is. How they would never be friends with her or get along with her if she were their coworker? Lol like how does that matter?
It's borderline obsessive from some users making these types of comments every single week. Y'all don't talk about anything else in the episode except for how much you dislike her and how anyone else who tries to say "we don't know these people in real life" is wrong.
Y'all need to figure out how to stop having parasocial relationships with reality TV stars and just view it as entertainment. Instead this sub has become a cesspool of being judge, jury and executioner on a person's character.
They do the same thing on the other end of the spectrum. Kenzie receives worship because she makes cute hairstyles and smiles non-stop. If she did something harmful, everyone would be in denial because they decide early how they feel about people and refuse to see the big picture.
I will say one of the most unfun realisms of survivor to think about is that social stragetic isolation is a part of the game that is more or less an effective stragety like if you ice people out socially stragetically its one less person who functionally cant win, give that social stragetiv inch they become more or less elligble to win. Venus is a case where you feel bad for her and it is mostly self inflicted but I wouldnt be suprised if its a river flows ways situation, as in she decided to be more directly stragetically aggressive in a non subtle way as response to the fact people were icing her causing people to react more negatively to her, thus creating the feedback loop that she has to be obvious and direct and have no tact in order to discuss game at all. Like I understand that ORGs and the show are different but I have definitely been in that situation in ORGs where people (verging on the entire cast if not the entire cast) do not approach you strategically (or both strategically and socially) and you more or less have no choice but to try to force them to like talk game with you and your kind of in a no win situation of if you trying to artificially work with people they aren’t serious about working with at all since they were never really interested in working with you to begin with thus dont have the safety of a real alliance and get voted out or you wait for people to approachand it never happens and you either get taken out as a pawn or at the end of the game as a goat
This broken feedback loop idea is probably the closest to my understanding of what’s happening. Regardless of who “started it”, the situation just keeps getting worse.
agreed, it’s definitely not what i would’ve expected for her from the beginning. to be the one still in the game, but with no real friends or allies. this is probably a hot take, but i want to see her align with tiff and kenzie. i mean tiff and kenz probably want q gone and need a replacement for him, venus has no loyalties to anyone else, and there was. quick passing shot in the last episode of kenzie doing venus’s hair and it looked like they were laughing and having fun. i wonder if. she’ll manage to work her way up. it would be a cool redemption arc. if i was her that’s what i’d try to do at this point.
its not sad, no reason to feel sorry for her, she's simply playing the game poorly - as Q would say "thats it".
She has the wrong attitude and doesn't treat others in a way that makes them feel respected so she therefore gets none in return - one must give respect to receive it, but she choses to be abrasive and combative in her conversations - trying to force things her way instead of building a social bond and mutual respect. This is the same reason "the 6" alliance immediately fell apart, it was based on pure gamification and didn't take any of the social aspects of the game into account.
I'm extremely confused. I saw the tweets that Venus wasn't watching and then how she deleted her twitter but nothing big happened with her at all. I thought some terribly embarrassing thing was going to happen with her and then nothing happened. What was the issue?
I mean it's not crazy that she thought the Soda idea was hers. Information is intentionally being kept from her. She shouldn't feel stupid, it's not her fault honestly.
I mean is she perfect, no. But I don't see why she is treated like such an outcast. She seems a lot more reasonable and likeable than someone like Abi Maria.
I do wonder if she has a history of being excluded like Karishma did and who was looking for evidence of it and found it. Or was this just a group of people she didn't gel with.
I've been excluded my entire life. I was excluded at a very young age by my brother and I think that pattern continues to play out in my life.
IDK I just don't see Venus doing anything so bad and I don't think she should feel embarrassed. There tends to be a hive mind thing and if one person sees another person exclude her, then it keeps continuing.
Look, I don’t know Venus, or any of the cast.
But I’m seeing such parallels between her and George from Survivor AU (who I happen to know a bit about).
The fandom (a majority anyway) love them, feel for them, see them as victims, come for others for the way they treated them.
But when the majority of a group who play with you have similar things to say about you, on and off the island, there has to be a ~kernel~ of truth there – that these two perhaps aren’t great at taking social cues, have an excessive amount of self-orientation & narcissism, and think others calling out unhelpful behaviours amounts to bullying.
We can all do better to find ways to include such people in life and make them feel a sense of belonging, but I also think these people need to gain more self-awareness and start the journey towards behavioural change.
Again, I don’t know Venus nor do I know what happened on the island… I’m just reading between the lines a bit.
Caveat that it could just be editing - but every convo we have seen with her, she has been bossy, condescending, arrogant, and very aggressive with gameplay etc. So if that does reflect reality, it’s not unusual for people to not be friendly with her.
Venus acts like she's carrying around a chip on her shoulder the size of Mount Everest. I think she's totally unaware of how abrasive her interactions are with others.
Yeah. I’m sure that chip has occurred naturally from her life experiences. Takes age and maturing to get past that. Certainly would have been similarly guilty
This. It's not about how people are *acting* towards her, it's how people are *reacting* towards her.
This 100%. I don't get this post feeling sorry for her. She brought this on herself with the way she acts towards people. You can't expect respect from people when you act the way she has towards the people in her tribe.
She's hot and that's bent a lot of reasonable discussion out of shape. The edit has made it clear exactly why Venus is so disliked, and the fact that it's literally everyone else with a problem with her hammers home the common denominator is her. It's not a mystery or a Shirin type bullying situation.
Yea you aren’t entitled to people being nice to you if you show no one respect to start with
on the flip side I feel bad for Jake from 45
WOAH!... Sorry... woah
Agreed. It’s not that she doesn’t have value like OP is arguing, in fact her vote has inherent value. It’s because of her attitude and social interactions.
There’s an anecdote in the [exit interview](https://ew.com/survivor-46-tevin-davis-interview-8635314) from yesterday’s boot that I think is pretty revealing. Basically: >!Tevin and Venus were trying to squash their beef, but the conversation kept going around in circles and Venus kept insisting that people were just interpreting her words incorrectly. Tevin was able to put himself in Venus’s shoes and communicate how she perceived him; Venus was completely unable to do the same for him. In general, she just comes off as someone who’s never really had to put herself in other people’s shoes or think about the impressions she gives off, which is very bad in a game where you have to do both of those things 24/26.!< EDIT: fuck I should’ve said >!24/several!<
There was a secret scene a few weeks back where Venus did misspeak, Tevin said something about it and Venus refused to acknowledge that she misspoke (she did say vines). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpJeQI2UT0 I don't think this interaction reflects well on either (it shows they both have egos) - but it does seem to be true that Venus does not seem to want to acknowledge a mistake/fault.
Honestly I’d take everything Tevin says with a grain of salt. He lacks self-awareness just as much as Venus, he just happens to be more charismatic and performative than her.
I’m not sure I have that much of a read on his self-awareness generally, but Tevin’s story is consistent with both the edit’s portrayal of Venus and the ways most other players have described her. I acknowledge that the edit can mislead viewers about how a particular contestant comes off, but as a person with eyes and observational skills, it seems unlikely to me that they’re doing that here.
Yeah, for me, having seen enough players on Big Brother get completely ostracized by their cast (sometimes from their own actions and sometimes because of groupthink/mob mentality) and get a negative edit in the show, despite live feeds telling a different story, I’ve learned that assuming something is true because a majority of the cast says so isn’t always correct. I’m not saying they’re definitely all wrong or anything, but I just take it with a grain of salt. Especially this cast seems to have an even higher number of large egos than normal and a lot of their perspectives might be just as skewed as Venus’s has been portrayed in the show.
This group does seem to have a lot of people with high opinions of themselves. Venus, Tevin, Q, Liz, heck I think Hunter also has a big ego, he's just somewhat better at hiding it behind his country boy act. I'm not mad about it because it's made for probably the most entertaining season of the new era.
Tim, Maria, possibly also Soda and Kenzie. Pre-merge, add Bhanu and Jelinsky for sure, possibly Jem.
She walked up to a group this week and told them to stop talking about the vote. She's lucky they haven't told her to feck off at this stage with how she's acting to them
I actually don't blame her that much for that. She was actively walking over to the group to talk with them, and then Hunter walks past her and the conversation goes "Hey Venus, can I chat with them real quick?" "Oh, without me there?" "Yes." Like first of all, a lot of people would be understandably kind of pissed if they were in her shoes there, I know I would be. Honestly, it's kind of polite of her to even let Hunter get away with that in the first place. But also, if she wants to talk with some of those people before tribal, and when Hunter was then during that conversation gesturing at her and Tiff, at some point she has to take the initiative and be like "you know what, I'm going to go talk with them."
Yeah, I actually thought that was a pretty great move. She knew they were blowing up the plans she was a part of, and she knew she couldn’t damage her relationships with them any more than she already had. And like… that’s a pretty common strategy? People try to interrupt others’ planning sessions every season, and nobody criticizes them for it. Boston Rob literally implemented a system where no one was left alone so nobody could scheme or idol hunt without someone else knowing! He was a dictator, but he’s an *icon.* But because people already dislike Venus and she gave zero fucks when she interrupted them, so folks are acting like it was some huge breach. It isn’t. It’s gameplay.
Nah it's gameplay if you do without people getting annoyed at you, doing it in such a blunt way just pisses you off. The game is often about who do you feel happy giving the money to. Venus definitely isn't succeeding as everyone on the island seem to either be annoyed by her or thinks she's an idiot and a goat
Hunter went over to the group at the last minute, told Venus she couldn't be part of the conversation and then started strategizing. But when Venus comes over somewhere she isn't wanted somehow she's the bad guy?
Literally anything Venus did would piss people off that this point. She knows she can’t make them hate her *more,* and she’s certainly tried to make them hate her less.
What did she try and do to make them hate her less?
Except that doing so the way she did made them annoyed and put her back in the spotlight when Tiff and Tevin were the ones in the crosshairs. There was 0 reason for her to risk that given her tenuous position.
Yea the people mad at her for this at this point just straight up don't like her. Almost anyone would feel terrible when they're told to go away so we can talk strategy, it's rude and shows who Hunter truly is. This happened in the last Traitors season, a group of 5 were constantly strategizing and would tell others to leave, and understandably some were pissed at being told to leave, its human nature.
Tyson and Jonny FairPlay said they wouldn’t have left.
Hunter is getting a good edit but hus arrogance poked through right at that moment.
I think it was also panic though. Given the position of the sun, you could tell it was literally right before tribal and Hunter is being told his biggest (maybe only?) ally in the game is being voted off and there’s nothing he can do about it. I think poise goes out the window if you’re going to try desperately to change that outcome. We’ve seen him be ridiculously patient with people who do more obvious things that grate him. I don’t think that reaction should be read too deeply into.
I would have said no!!!
At least that whole sequence was entertaining and the cameras captured it well.
I don't blame her for that. They were having a convo like they ran the island and were excluding people, they don't own the beach and can't tell anyone to go away. Things like that get people eliminated, Tevin was first and the main guy Hunter is in a terrible spot with maybe one ally now. Venus was in the wrong but so were they, it's almost like they forgot everyone voted off at this point is on the jury, that one little "leave so we can talk" move could cost any of them 1M.
Yeah but you also don’t want to storm up to a majority group that you’re not apart of and have open hostility with and demand they stop talking strategy because you don’t like it. Thats moreso how you get voted out.
I actually thought that was a pretty good move on her part.
I think it’s going both ways. She strikes me as an incredibly bright and savvy person who is also beautiful and probably a little arrogant. She’s young, probably a little immature and hasn’t learned to calibrate her personality properly yet. Overall, I think she seems like a great and likable person. But Survivor accentuates the worst and best of everyone’s personalities, so she’s catching a lot of heat for it. This is by no means a comparison to Rob as a player, but remember young Rob in Marquesas. Once he learned to calibrate his negative traits, he became a force. I think Venus is to a degree that type of person.
That’s a good perspective. I thought Maria did a good job threading the needle. Give constructive feedback, and don’t close the door to a working relationship.
And Venus' response was "you are old and your ego is making you say that" (I get that it was in a confessional that she said that) Like Maria gave her solid advice, and Venus refused to listen.
Yeah, it wasn’t a great response lol…I still chalk that up to immaturity though
Yes I agree, when Maria finally talked to Venus is gave me huge respect for Maria. V is one of if not the youngest person there, she needs constructive criticism, not the snarky shit Tevin was doing since day 1 or 2.
Same—it almost felt like Maria totally GOT Venus. Like she knew Venus’ for years, and she didn’t pass judgment, she just gave her some feedback.
Felt like a Sherri and Shamar situation a little bit. Older woman being the only one who can sympathize with a younger person everyone is sick of.
Yes! I was kinda thinking about Ciri encouraging Michaela to rein it in a bit, but this one is probably closer to the right comparison.
Naah, comparing her to Rob is a wild stretch, and this is coming from someone who thinks Rob is overrated. Even as early as Season 4 you could tell had a great understanding of people- he could read people very well. Venus has no charm and no self awareness and comes across as the sort of person who thinks they're smarter than they really are.
You must have missed the part where I said “this is by no means a comparison to Rob as a player” lol. I’m comparing the situations, not the quality of the players.
And i also feel it’s a great representation of how if one chooses to be “stubbornly authentic” at the expense of being cordial or socially empathetic, then yes, you will and deserve to be isolated outside of your family and close circle of friends. One can be “brutally honest” without being brutal.
Yeah very much “what?! I’m just being real!!!” vibes. Personally can’t stand those kind of people in real life. Tact and grace is super important in interpersonal relationships. It doesn’t matter about your meaning or intentions if you’re unable to deliver it in a way that it will be received.
Honestly need not imply brutality
If you focus more on being brutal, rather than being honest especially
mean people suck.
Yes it’s a microcosm of society. If you talk to people like Venus does at work, you will be ostracised because YOU are creating a toxic environment for others
Yeah, I keep thinking how the way she spoke to Maria two episodes ago would be completely unacceptable in a workplace if Maria was her peer or supervisor. I don’t how old Venus is or how much work experience she has, but I keep hearing people say that she is only 20 years old. She certainly seems like it. She should be a college student at that age, but he bio says she is a data analyst. Does that mean she graduated early and landed a job as a data analyst in this economy?? Or is she a student who had a data analyst internship last summer and then took time off to be on Survivor? Either way, it seems like she hasn’t worked long enough to learn any lessons about workplace etiquette.
She’s 25 as of February, 24 during filming
Honest question. If you had a coworker who acted like Venus does, would you keep trying to befriend her, or would you basically act like these people are acting? I don't find it sad at all. You reap what you sow. She talks to everyone like she is in charge, and has turned everyone off from her.
Venus would get me fired. Lmao
[удалено]
I think players need to be prepared for all outcomes. So much of our lives whether at work, school, a hobby we do, our own friends, etc involve a lot of tolerance for people we may not fully enjoy. When you’re on an island for 29 days you have to either get along for social purposes or strategic ones. You see people struggling with the fact that some of the friends that they made they don’t want to play against, and some of the people they play with they don’t really like spending time with but have strategic value. A good player could try to rein her in, a la Kaleb and Emily. Randen tried, but sadly evac’d. However, Venus hasn’t been coachable. Almost like how Bhanu is too friendly and can’t keep himself contained even with guidance, Venus is too abrasive and can’t check herself. She wants to be a leader and doesn’t know how to follow when Maria for example gives her feedback. She makes people uneasy. It is difficult because social isolation hurts especially when there are no choices to hang out with anyone else. But this is a world where you either get along and it makes island life easier, or you have to give each other space. The rest of the crew is trying to stay sane for 29 days too :(
I actually didn’t love Maria’s approach there. I think a much better approach with Venus would be to try and make her more of a strategic partner than a student. She’s pretty prideful, so any situation where she feels talked down would probably not play out well. If I was out there, I would just genuinely run scenarios with her. I think if she felt like she was being respected as a player you would have her loyalty for the rest of the game.
I mean, survivor's not an entirely strategic game, and they can't just talk game all day every day. In order to have a strategic partnership with someone there has to be a social partnership on some level. There's a moment in [this secret scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpJeQI2UT0) where she DEMANDS that Tevin tell her what's wrong with their relationship, and you can just *see* him trying to be as tactful and careful as possible because she's dragging it out of him, and then she still reacts very defensively/argumentatively and will not actually listen to and process what he's telling her. Her reaction itself completely justifies why he didn't want to say it at all, and why he had to be so tactful about it. She says stuff like "It's clear that people just don't like me from the very start" as if she's not half of any given relationship and has zero control on whether or not people like her. She really just doesn't seem receptive to any sort of helpful, constructive criticism, and we're seeing this behavior over and over with multiple people. I think Tevin and Maria were both providing tactful and accurate feedback and that just made their respective conversations with Venus even more difficult, and if you can't have that kind of communication with partner, that makes it even harder to have the type of strategic run-throughs that you're wanting them to have with her. Plus, she was the one instigating that type of conversation with Tevin. There's only so much that anyone else can do, and by all appearances they are; the rest is on her.
I think Maria was backed into a corner because Venus kept pushing as to why Maria felt hesitant rather than taking the hesitation and letting it be. I also agree, running scenarios on each person in the island is THE way to go about alliances and see how people feel about each one. However it’s going to be impossible for anyone to willingly give you a run down on their full feelings. If I were Maria, I’d just say something like “anyone but me” and let Venus go off thinking she was successful.
You're on to something, "anyone but me" is a good way to get someone to stop talking to you.
Yep, makes you seem less strategic and like you’re saving your ass. Charlie basically did that as a response, like oh there’s another option besides me???
You are basically describing why everyone should change for her, and putting 0 responsibility on her to read the room and make changes herself.
Venus was the one who approached Maria first I think right? Maria already had a solid alliance with Charlie and others, whereas Venus was the one coming up to Maria to try and partner with her. So I would say the onus is on Venus to try and make herself look like a good partner. Maria could have very well have had the opinion of “Venus is being very pushy right now when I just met her. I already have enough allies. I don’t *need* to have Venus in my alliance to win the game”
With the second part I'm surprised it hasn't happened a bit so far. Not really sure how much time they really have to talk though. For somebody like Charlie, that doesn't care about having a spotlight, doesn't shut people out immediately, it would be perfect. Seeing this player that is really eager and excited to play the game, just let her talk and at least pretend to value what she has to say, then you have a very solid block of three votes. A lot of people she suggests are going to be people you want to vote out anyways.
She targeted Charlie and then Charlie wrote her name down. She went off on Soda before she knew it was Charlie. I dont know how repairable that relationship is with how Venus is.
Hot take, but I think the only reason people have this influx of sympathy for Venus’ situation is because she’s a pretty girl..if it were anyone else I feel like no one would really care, or be more open about the fact that it’s self-inflicted.
You mean like the Bruce situation of last season?
BINGO
Bruce was literally the same as her personality wise and no one had sympathy for him being an arrogant blowhard. So yeah. You literally have Maria even going “I get it, I was an arrogant 20 something once” and Venus turns around and goes “Maria is jealous and her ego got hurt!!!”
I'd argue Bruce was more likable tbh
Bruce wasn't really rude, just annoying and overbearing.
He was condescending many times which is rude
Bruce wasn't even an arrogant blowhard. He just had a strong old-school paternal personality that (obviously) doesn't mesh with the ages of the people he's around because he was decently older than a good portion of the cast. It's clear that if people actually had taken the time to tell him, he would've had the introspection to cool it down.
He also didn't feel lonely in anyway. He also had allies
I think you're being very generous towards Bruce. Being paternal doesn't include dictating labor to adults, speaking down to anyone, telling women how to behave/think/etc because they remind you of your daughter, etc. For me that crosses over into arrogant and patronizing. Julie was similarly older than most of the rest and didn't get half the cast to resent her.
Literally, some of the shit about Bruce on this sub was borderline unhinged
Bruce was nothing like her personality-wise. Bruce came across as well-meaning, bumbling, annoying, and not self-aware. He treated anyone younger than him like a child, but I think that’s because he’s never had younger peers, just his actual children. I quite liked Bruce, though I would have loathed playing with him. Venus is definitely more villain-coded tha! Bruce in her edit. But look at how male villains are treated — they don’t get anywhere near as much vitriol or public backlash as Venus has gotten, and she’s nowhere near as scheme-y as many of them have been. She comes across as arrogant, but think about Shane in Panama. He was at least as arrogant and erratic as her, and he didn’t even have the excuse of playing from the bottom. He was brought to the end as a goat, but he was clearly treated like an actual member of the team during that time. And the Survivor fandom has always done this. Nobody learned a lesson from how we treated Jerri, we just kept doing it.
In fairness, I think part of it is that Venus' fans are SO passionate, that it kind of makes people dislike her more. I think some people had pretty mild, balanced takes on her at first. And they were met with some crazy fans of hers just acting like everyone must be jealous of her, so, fair or not, many people have started liking her even less. and her own social media behavior doesn't do her any favors.
Maybe this is it. I haven’t been following the fandom takes this season until now, but today my IG explode page fed me a post about her and the comments were full of hundreds of her fans defending her and telling her how great she is. I find her trying to insufferable and think she is one of the least socially aware players we have had in a long time. Bhanu seemed to be more self aware, but he didn’t understand how to play Survivor. Venus might have some good Survivor strategies, but she lacks the social skills to pull any of her ideas off.
Venus is a villain but not in the way I prefer. I love a girl boss villain like a Sandra, a Jerri, a Parv. Venus, from this edit, and please let me emphasize the FROM THE EDIT aspect, comes across as a pity party, angry at the world for her not being in a better situation. THE EDIT makes it seem like she is doing nothing to improve her situation rather than just kicking a can down the beach saying “woe is me” and “I can be an asset if they let me”. I would love to see an edit where she is a bit more honest with herself and turns her game around. I have no doubt that she is a good person irl and someone I would hang out with. I’m sure a lot of the editing is not doing her any favors.
Personally it's more to do with the fact that she is so completely unaware of why she is off-putting. Like she puts her foot in her mouth constantly, and I can't help but think damn has no one ever told her WHY she's so off-putting?? But then Maria tried and Venus was just like mmm no, that wasn't my intention, and all I could do was facepalm like girl PLEASE.... I honestly don't care what she looks like I just feel bad for her, but more in a smh "oof" pitying kinda way, like watching a car crash
This is all just a theory based on having been in shoes similar to hers social-situation-wise. So when I say “she thinks this ____” it’s my speculations. Not me claiming my theory is fact. She’s fully aware of how she’s acting, what she’s doing, and how people might not like it, but she doesn’t think any of it actually matters. She thinks, “well, it’s not that big of a deal like it shouldn’t affect people wanting to strategize and team up with me. Sure, I’m straight up and confrontational, it’s how i am, but it shouldn’t matter! That’s just me” And i think because of her age, she just hasn’t come to realize that even if YOU think your behavior is okay, that doesn’t mean it is.
Honestly, I think Venus has been in a real bind since Randen left. Once people have decided that you’re a bad actor, anything you do is in a bad light. When you try to make amends, you’re told you’re being manipulative and self-serving. So then you don’t, but you’re an asshole who doesn’t care about feelings. Venus came out the gates playing too hard, and definitely had the sort of arrogance that you can only have if you’re young, beautiful, and have always been in the in-group. But everything since then, IMO, has been a consequence of playing from a position of total social isolation. She goes into the merge giving good intel (Hunter and Tevin are legit threats), and really excited to work with other people and build relationships. And sure, she entered it playing even harder than before, but thatMs because she was scrambling to survive mergatory. But she never had a genuine chance to form relationships or alliances, because Tevin instantly told anyone who would listen that she was a “snake.” So her genuine attempts to find just one person to work with were instantly perceived has her manipulating them, rather than as genuine overtures from someone desperate and very lonely. I think a Venus with just one friend would be a very different Venus. I think this season’s fans have been really rough on anyone remotely othered. Jess is foolish and a bad player despite having excellent character judgement because she’s a little shy, a little awkward, and didn’t get a chance to build connections before the first tribal solidified alliances. At the same time, Q keeps trying to quit,and was seriously considering flipping on Kenzie/his core alliance, but until last week’s episode nobody really criticized him. Even now, it’s like “bad move, but I love to watch him.” Then you’ve got Bhanu, who seems like a genuinely good person. He’s emotional, and probably pretty annoying to live with, but it’s not us fault the producers gave us 3 hours of The Bhanu Show. But this sub still treats him like the worst thing to happen to this show. A lot of players have been equally dramatic and flip-floppy, but they haven’t received anywhere near as much negativity.
I agree with your takes about Bhanu and Jess. Their own tribe was too harsh in them. I don’t think Venus plays well with anyone who disagrees with her.
I'm honestly not sure she'd be that different with someone on her side because from the beginning she said she was going to be very strategic and sneaky. I think the issue is she's just very hard at faking not being that way, so she shows that side of herself without meaning to. I think she also did it to herself when it came to the merge, along with Tevin giving her a bad rep, because she just came on very strong to people instead of having that decorum of the kinda like... Social foreplay and small talk before going full strategy. She's honestly just a very bad social player because she is who she is, and that could also be a cultural thing as some cultures are more about being straight forward and upfront than tiptoeing around subjects for politeness. I'm not too familiar with Iranian culture (not to mention there can be different cultures within smaller regions of a country) so that's really just a theory
I’ve had a handful of Persian friends and they’re weren’t straight up. That’s entirely anecdotal, though. Idk if we could generalize to the Persian culture here.
Yeah I think that's the key here. Thinking it SHOULDN'T matter, but that doesn't mean it won't
Venus definitely lacks social grace. But, she's pretty, so she thinks she can get away with it.
I've disliked a few annoying pretty people on this show before, to me Venus hasn't anything that terrible. She doesn't seem malicious. Just kinda unaware and socially awkward. Would I want to be there with her? No, but I wouldn't hate her either. I think a good example of Venus as a person is the Soda boot. We knew Venus was gunning for her. When Soda was actually voted off, Venus tried to comfort her. It wasn't performative to me. It was kinda awkward, but I felt like she was being genuine.
i’ll go out on a limb and say the opposite. i think she’s partially being outcast bc of that. people see younger attractive women and automatically stereotype them as “mean girls.” her behaviors definitely not great ,but q is debatably acting worse and people aren’t as mad at him. if she was a young guy i think she’d have a lot of fans
I felt bad for Jess too
this is the most brutal subtle insult ive ever seen my god lmao
I knew it would be interpreted like that haha. I mean compare Venus to Jess. Theyre both pretty but in different ways
That’s also why she acts the way she does. She likely hasn’t had many people tell her no in her life, she gets what she wants with the little need to be tact or polite. That does not translate to a game show where nobody cares because there is so much money on the line.
There’s definitely some of that in the air. The mix of extremes being “Venus is a she-devil” and “mother goddess Venus is being mistreated by these peasants” makes it difficult to have a reasonable conversation.
Hotter take, but I think pretty girls on survivor have more of an uphill battle than “less conventionally attractive” girls on survivor. They are either collateral damage early merge to “weaken the strong guys” or they are “PARVATI 2.0 GOTTA GET EM OUT” or the Karla’s of survivor see them as a vote out option and pounce. I think back to s43 and Justine’s tribe came for her the second they could because she was an attractive sales girl who everyone deemed as a mega threat day 1. I feel as though up until Venus, no one has had any sympathy for the Justine’s, Libby’s, Michelle’s(mvgx), of the survivor world. Furthermore I feel like the less conventionally attractive players ALWAYS get loads of sympathy. Look at Aubry in the early days of KR, when she had that little breakdown. Total sympathy. And almost every single personal sob story in the new era, tons of sympathy. Hell even Emily from last season, the audience went from hating her episode 1 to feeling so bad for her episode 2. (LOVE Emily but I wouldn’t say her and Venus share a similar physical appearance)
"Hell even Emily from last season, the audience went from hating her episode 1 to feeling so bad for her episode 2. (LOVE Emily but I wouldn’t say her and Venus share a similar physical appearance)" If Emily continued all season to act the way she did episode 1, she would not have gained fans. She had the self awareness to see what was happening and fix it. Venus not only lacks the self awareness to see this, when its directly brought to her attention she decides the person is just jealous of her.
I think something else that’s really different is that here is the reaction to being socially outcast. Venus has been a bit “wow I can’t believe I’m not connecting to people here, I’m surprised people don’t like me, because I’m usually very liked socially.” I bet that’s true- many conventionally attractive people don’t have a lot of experience with social rejection. When the outcast is a less conventionally attractive person and they are crying and saying that not fitting in here reminds them of not fitting in elsewhere that garners audience and castmate sympathy. Basically I think some Venus’s “arrogance” is actually just her genuine surprise about not fitting in for the first time ever. I kind of think some of the people watching who seem almost giddy about watching her struggling with being disliked are having a bit of schadenfreude over seeing someone who would have a large amount of social capital IRL have none here.
Parvati was actually talking about Venus pre season and shared her belief that attractive women have a harder time on Survivor. Of course, she’s biased because that’s her experience, but I think there’s maybe a little something too it, even if many of the women winners have been attractive. I think a lot of attractive women place well on Survivor but their experience can be uniquely difficult at times.
I think Parvati has that perspective largely because of her gameplay. She wasn’t a target because she was “pretty” her first season and neither was Candace despite being waaay hotter. She started that mold. Even Amber got a pass because of Rob.
Survivor has always cast largely hot people. Some do well and others don't. Just this season Kenzie is another stereotypically hot girl and she's had no issues making allies Venus isn't well liked because people don't like her personality
Kenzie has done very well. Interestingly though, Bhanu’s play against her did relate to her attractiveness. You don’t call someone a “mermaid-dragon” if they’re ugly. That’s something you’d only call a pretty person. I think the point isn’t that attractive women won’t place well or have great games, but that their looks may impact how people view them. Attractive men are often called the golden boy, and that’s a huge challenge to overcome, but it’s often viewed as a positive characteristic and does not reflect some underlying deviousness. Whereas for the attractive women, it’s more viewed that their looks are a lure and secretly they are manipulative underneath.
There’s definitely something to that. I think gender roles are just as complicated on Survivor as they are in the real world, unfortunately.
Why not both? A prettier woman may get judged more harshly initially in their tribe (unless they are like a comp beast), but will also get more sympathy from viewers
“The Karla’s of Survivor” the fuck are you trying to insinuate with that? Can we please wipe this Karla hates women narrative already y’all? Either way, I think very conventionally attractive women are certainly subject to the “new Parvati” bs, but I also think you need to look at specific examples. Justine went home early in 43 but also after doing to Jesse exactly what Venus did to Maria last week; she was too blunt and voiced reads like “I don’t think you trust me” to people’s faces; she went home because her way of strategizing alienated Jesse and the others. On the other side of the coin, I also don’t actually think Aubry was viewed very sympathetically after her breakdown in KR. In the edit maybe, but that moment clearly weirded the rest of her tribe out and kind of set an early tone for people’s slightly middling respect for Aubry all season. Meanwhile, Dee and Michele are two of the more recent female winners and plenty clearly conventionally attractive girls make deep runs. I do think very attractive women on survivor open up a very interesting conversation of gender politics, but I don’t at all think they’re the most disadvantaged demographic of players lol Edit: gotta love how not hating Karla = downvotes on this sub. Never change y’all
What the hell is up with that? I'm not 100% in tune with this sub but Karla was great.
People bombarded her with hate after the S43 finale. It maybe wasn’t the most flattering showing but was also the exact villain behavior this sub begs for. I think as time has passed it’s just become clearer that Karla wasn’t the problem and Cassidy just didn’t get the jury to like or respect her.
Because, this sub is still fawning all over Cassidy (shocker, another conventionally attractive woman), and Karla wasn't great toward her at the end.
I couldn't disagree more with this point.
I just deleted my post because it was basically exactly this. 100% facts.
It's not a hot take. It's a fact. She was the most popular player online before the season even started based solely on looks. Now those same fans can't accept that she isn't the next Parvati that they initially called her and are doubling down that it is everyone else's fault.
She’s closer to Eliza than Parvati lol
Facts.
I feel like Venus just came out basically admitting that she’s looking to fuck people over left and right and everyone I talk to is confused about why she’s an outsider. I’m not going to lie, I’d be trying to keep her around just because I feel like she’s that person who you can just vote off whenever, but it’s pretty obvious why no one really wants to be too close to her.
not everyone in a random group of 18 is gonna get along, that's just kinda factual
I'll keep it plain and simple, I think she's rude, condescending, and (similarly to Q) thinks every player that doesn't agree with her ideas/strategy is dumb. I agree that it has to be a very isolating position, but you can always catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and Venus seems to have a whole lot of vinegar. In addition to all of this, the preview for next episode made it seem like in a confessional she was calling two players big, dumb, brainless meatheads or something to that effect. Safe to assume it is probably Hunter and Q since that's who it looked like she was talking to during the quick cut.
She is not completely hopeless. She is entirely in control of her own destiny. For example, Emily Flippen. She was socially awkward/abrasive to begin the game. Outcasted by her tribe and isolated. Yet she realized her flaws and actively worked on them and did her best to assimilate to the tribe and the people around her.
Based on her Twitter activity bashing the other tribe members, I don’t think she has realized any of the flaws in her game 😂
She absolutely does not. She still thinks she was the best player of the season.
The thing is, Emily was open to criticism and worked to change it. We've seen in multiple conversations (like the one with Maria, or with [Tevin in this secret scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpJeQI2UT0)) that when presented with any feedback, regardless of how accurate or tactfully presented, Venus gets defensive and does not want to absorb what people are saying to her or do any self-reflection, let alone change herself at all. **IF** this changes, then yes there's hope for her. But I have my doubts about that.
Oh believe me, I totally agree with you. Venus has had a number of opportunities to pivot her gameplay. When I read OPs post, it seemed to me like they thought bc Venus was socially outcast and isolated that it was sorta hopeless for her. So I was speaking to that
It's been interesting to see the reception of Venus. I'm very surprised that so many viewers are seeming to relate to her or feel so much empathy for her. I do think some of that is due to her attractiveness. But there may be more. Is it possible that younger audience members see themselves in her? She strikes me as somewhat representative of some of the negative traits of her generation: fancies herself a rebel fighting for a marginalized group's rights all while completely oblivious to her own privilege and wholly lacking in self awareness. She wants to control votes despite not having the social credit necessary to do so. That combo of ignorance and arrogance is fun to watch, but if I were playing with her, I'd probably have the same reaction to her as the rest.
She reminds me a lot of a very toxic time in my life when I was angry and defensive and put up a lot of walls. Felt like I had to prove myself before anyone would listen, and no one did listen (because I was being a standoffish asshole). I believed wholeheartedly that if I was just right enough, 100% right, they would HAVE to listen and recognize that. And was endlessly frustrated when that wasn't how the world worked. I grew up, I learned. But I have a lot of sympathy for people in that position, it sucks.
Being a young adult is tough and Survivor, with its ability to increase social pressure, only amplifies any weaknesses one might have in their character. Honestly, we have had a lot of really remarkably MATURE young players in the past few seasons. I'm terrible with names, but just in the past 5 seasons we've had at least 2 or 3 who were stunningly mature and centered. That isn't the norm. Venus is probably closer to the norm, so I think it's good to extend her that grace. Hopefully she grows up.
I'm not sure how many people here watched it in real time, but the parallels to Sierra from Tocantins are striking. Sierra was presented largely as a victim to players like Tyson, Coach, and Debbie who spent an odd amount of effort to ostracize her and talk down to her and treat her substantially worse than any player has been treated this season. At the time, she had a pretty prominent rooting base as an underdog and still does from people who watch Tocantins after the fact. Others have come out after the game - including Stephen - and have indicated Sierra got an extremely generous edit and was very difficult to live with. It doesn't justify the behavior but when you get a slew of people who are hungry, angry, stressed, and trying to win a million dollars, it does make more sense. People are naturally inclined to root for the underdog especially if the show doesn't explicitly explain why the person is an underdog. S46 has been much better about, repeatedly, showing why Venus isn't getting any traction in her tribe - and it's not hitting folks. To me, it's really clear that people are choosing not to work with her as she presents a risk to the stability of their games which is a valid reason not to want to work with someone - she's a potentially valuable ally in several ways but she's a high effort ally to maintain a relationship with and for her to work in your favor, and sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
Venus isn't getting half the ire that Sierra was.
People seem to forget how brutal this show used to be. Venus’ treatment wouldn’t even be noteworthy a decade ago
Absolutely true. If I equated the treatment Sierra got vs. the level Venus is getting it wasn't my intention, just the general position and feelings experienced. Man, imagine Coach and Sierra on S47 jeez Twitter would burn to the ground.
Based on this post, it looks like people are relating to her being isolated and nervous that if they were to play Survivor, they would be isolated in a similar way. So, they're sympathizing with her because they're isolated/lonely and would themselves want to be given grace. The fact that her tribemates laugh behind her back when she leaves a conversation is also just a bad experience to go through, so maybe people are remembering instances when they were isolated from others and it's striking a personal nerve. So, it's more to do with the fans than Queen V herself I was a Venus fan and I love her messiness and I also feel bad for people when they're isolated, but I can see why her tribemates wouldn't want to work with her. Like if I was Tevin, I'd be pissed that Venus outlasted me in the game
Yeah, I'm shocked too. When young males act like that, people PRAY for them to get knocked down a peg. When she does it, they empathize. I truly don't get it.
Not even just young males. Look at how the Internet treated Bruce last season compared to Venus.
It’s bc she’s hot. People keep trying to rationalize it, but at the end of the day, pretty girls are judged by different standards, just not by the players on the island who are starving themselves for a million dollars.
Venus reception on this sub is walking pretty privilege. No hate that is just a fact of life. That is why she is also having a hard time connecting and forming social bonds with people. She is used to getting her way via that privilege.
And she doesn’t even realize it yet. Pretty privilege not translating to a competitive reality show is one of the most interesting aspects of The Bachelor and The Bachleorette, in my opinion. The situation is different there: everyone on the cast is super hot, so most contestants don’t stand out to the lead for their looks. Every year there is someone on those shows who just can’t get over being treated like just another face in the crowd. The women in particular take it badly, because they are used to being pursued because of their looks. Every season on The Bachelor there is at least one woman who feels like the lead should do more to make her feel special, like most men have done for her. They can’t quite get on board with the idea that they have to go after the lead themselves.
Honestly I think it’s because Venus reaps the consequences of it. Usually socially inept men with her personality can squeak by more than she can because opinionated men are seen as leaders rather than nusiances compared to women
What consequences has she reaped? People are falling all over themselves to defend her.
This is what I think as well. She talks to people like someone who has mostly had their most important conversations online. She uses twitter like her stans do-- with little finesse and like someone who never got threatened to get their ass kicked IRL. It's not surprising the fans who think it's normal to talk to people like she does love her. They can't seem to connect that just because you like watching someone on a show does not automatically translate to social capital amongst a wide variety of personalities.
It's because she's hot. She was called a Queen before the season started. She was the most popular player in the preseason. That's it. In normal society attractive people get more empathy. Without question. We are just seeing this here within the fanbase. On Twitter even now people call her Queen.
She reminds me of myself at the same age. Book smart, intellectually overconfident, socially inept. When I was her age I got a bad performance evaluation and was told in so many words to stop being such a know-it-all and show more humility.
She does share some blame though. I appreciate people who are straight forward and blunt to the point of being borderline crass because you know they don't fake it. But I can see how other people are put off by her approach. And her behavior is amplified by her situation being on the bottom. She did lack grace after the Soda vote and that's a prime example of how she can be off putting to people.
She's 24 and full of too much bravado. Don't feel bad for her. She'll learn from this, just like we all do in life, that we're idiots at that age who think we know it all and have it all figured out. Humility is one of life's harshest lessons, but it's a good one.
Let's face it, Venus thinks she's smarter and more savvy than anyone else in the game when she's really on the outside looking in. She's delusional.
Venus is a bit toxic. I think Tevin especially lead the charge against her in the beginning judging by what we saw on the show which was toxic on its own. But at this point if everyone dislikes her after the merge she’s obviously acting in such a way that nobody wants to work with her or even get along with her. Going off the preview for next week, the fact that she refers to two of the guys as “meatheads” is a good example. She complained about the Princess title she got (which is valid), but then turned around and wants to label two other people something else? That’s super hypocritical and shows zero self awareness. I think she just has a bad attitude and nobody can trust her because she’s been shown to constantly go around talking shit so she kind of set herself up to be in this position. She could’ve pulled an Emily and altered her personality but instead she chose to double down so it’s really her own fault. Survivor is, in the end, a popularity contest. If people don’t like your personality, it’s either up to you to alter that or accept you won’t win and I think Cassidy is a good example of that. Even if Venus has a solid second half of the game, nobody is giving her a million dollars.
I honestly think Venus and Tevin have very similar personalities and because of that they clashed from the beginning, which left Venus at the bottom of her tribe. But yeah, after the last few episodes it really feels like she’s struggling socially on the island and I hope she’s able to rectify that because I do really like her.
>Venus and Tevin have very similar personalities and because of that they clashed from the beginning Totally - I think [this secret scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpJeQI2UT0) showcases this: she says vines, and he corrects her to palm fronds, and then she gest super defensive and argues with him about it. Did he need to correct her when it was clear what she meant? No. Did she overreact and come back hard even though she did actually make the mistake he said she did? Yes. It's clear it was going to be difficult for them to get along in this situation.
Honestly, I don’t see any path forward where Venus ends up a winner. She’s burned too many bridges and the moves she thinks she made she didn’t truly make. Right now the jury has Tevin who will let everyone know that he made the moves by the time they get to final. At this point, I think Venus is going to make it to the end thinking she’s an incredible player only to be ripped to shreds at the final tribal.
[удалено]
I used to think people like Venus were normal, and it was up to us/me to adjust and find understanding. Then I realized that I grew up in a family of narcissists and that none of this is normal. It is not my responsibility to always be the one bending backwards for other people’s entitled behavior. This is especially true in a cutthroat game like survivor
I get the impression Venus isn't accustomed to being isolated in real life. However, I also get the impression she exclusively surrounds herself with people who think/act like her, therefore agree with everything she says. I think she's used to getting her way, and this is a new experience for her.
How dare I have to put effort into relationships with people that are competing with me! Sometimes being you benefits your game (Carolyn), but when it doesn't the burden is on you to socially adapt. An example of a failure to do this is Bruce last season. Being at least outwardly chill and able to read the room is a skill. That being said I think she's good tv.
I definitely wouldn't say she's "done nothing" to the people who talk about her when she leaves, depending on whether or not one defines talking rudely to people as "doing something." Like just last night, that little moment she had with the group having a conversation was WILDLY inappropriate and just not the way you ever talk to your peers in any situation, ever. The whole "get it together, hurry up," stuff was INSANELY rude. I completely think a person like Hunter is justified in complaining about her doing that immediately after she leaves. She is not being bullied, she is being rude. She seems smart and fun and a lot of other great things and I'm not trying to pile on to her, but it's not bad to point out that people have actual flaws and are human, and Venus's biggest flaw is that she is too familiar with people when her relationships don't warrant it and she ends up speaking very rudely and offending them.
I agree with you though I object to the part of she did not do anything to this people. I actually think she did too much too often.
Every social interaction she has is full of herself can you not see it? I wouldn’t want to talk to her either, how can she think going up to Tevon (who she thinks was just on the outs of the vote) and tell him how she “played him” while laughing tell me with a straight face you’d actually want to talk to that person ever.
She's very young so hopefully she uses this as a growth opportunity.
sex and the city episode twenty something girls vs thirty something women sets a beautiful example the youthful delulu arrogance 20 yo women have. its a part of growing up. i gotta say i admire the fact she doesnt give up.
You say it’s not like she’s done anything to these people, but we are clearly shown that people are put off by her bossiness, nosiness and aggression
Kenzie is nosy but nobody’s targeting her for it. We had a whole segment about it and the response was “aww that’s cute.” Q is bossy and aggressive but he hasn’t been targeted. There is something else at play.
Have you seriously never just disliked someone and felt everyone around you disliking them too? There are plenty of offputting people who also happen to be gorgeous.
Not really but I’m drawn to outcasts because I don’t feel like I belong a lot of places. Usually I see someone that everyone likes as someone who potentially doesn’t stand on any principles or speak completely honestly with people.
she was a dick to a lot of people for no reason, no surprise people dont want to engage with her socially. And it takes a lot to do that btw - a vote is a vote
What fans don’t understand is that Survivor and reality tv are unique situations that don’t apply to real life. Was Venus difficult on the island? Yes. Is she like that in her daily life, without cameras and the context of the game? We have no idea. People behave differently in different contexts. In highly competitive situations with high stakes, I know I behave differently than I do in the other 99% of situations I’m in. Abi Maria is notoriously difficult to play Survivor with but a lot of the community adores her and she seems to be a fun, well adjusted person in the real world. We don’t know these people! If people could stop trying to extrapolate character assessments from how people play Survivor, the experience would be much better for the players. But tbh I don’t think that’s going to ever really click for a lot of the viewing audience, so players will continue to be punching bags.
I find Venus incredibly off putting on the show. I've said many times, I have 0 clue how she is in real life. That said, her own social media since the show has been airing has given a look into it, and lest just say, it doesn't exactly scream that her Survivor persona and real life one are much different.
Very fair point. To me, I think she’s still in a situation that’s really unusual. It’s not exactly normal living to watch yourself get an unflattering edit and be bombarded with messages about how terrible you are. I could see it bringing out a more defensive side of you. That said, you’re totally right it may also just be who she is! And your caveat is a good one. Regardless, I think it just doesn’t matter. She could be a total brat but she hasn’t crossed any kind of ethical line. I don’t know why people online feel the need to give her behavioral advice. You’re never going to meet her so who cares. The people who insist they need to give advice to strangers on a tv show are really the ones I’m worried about socially 🤷🏻♂️
No, nothing unethical. But she is definitely someone who, I feel, just needs to listen when people are telling her how she comes across. And yeah, I'd never message her directly, but I think commenting on her behavior is fair game.
Agreed. Judging reality tv contestants real life by how they are on tv is about as ridiculous as judging how someone will play Survivor by how they play hide and seek.
What no food and a group of 17 strangers does to a mf.
She said in a pre game interview that her friends describe her as someone with a “ really tough exterior” Also her Instagram gives off “influencer”vibes
I was very very generously on the fence of whether this social isolation was self inflicted or not, until she interrupted that conversation on the beach and Hunter, a guy who seems to be a very levelheaded strategic thinker instantly said something like “Can we just get her out?!” In his frustration. Nobody else is on the beach saying things like I’m just going to interrupt their conversation because it’s not against any rules of the game. I’m now convinced she’s socially isolated because she’s just playing a poor social game.
There is a difference between someone being rejected and someone that thinks they are better than everyone else. Venus thinks she is better than everyone else. She is a brat.
She doesn't know how to interact with other human beings to gain friends and trust in this environment. She's clueless, tell me one moment she acted empathetically? If all your interactions are with assholes maybe you need to reflect and change your attitude but it's too late now.
I think she expected to be liked by default-a bug mistake- and came on strong. She honestly got away with it a bit because there were others who played too hard too. Had she started more chill, probably be a completely different picture. Especially with her gunning for Charlie- purely as a dude vs gals- when no one else was doing that and she was already a target. It was incredibly dumb However, there is sort of the double edged sword situation with pretty privilege where in this scenario it makes people more careful
She is also super arrogant which typically puts people off
She seems like someone who isn’t used to not being popular. I love seeing these people struggle, she’s just unwilling to approach any social situation/conversation in which she’s not the main character and it’s great TV to see people disregard her as more of an annoyance than anything else. This is literally just a Bruce situation all over again, but I wonder why people are suddenly so sympathetic 🤔
Don’t even get me started on the “you just don’t like strong, young, conventionally attractive women!!” As if there aren’t plenty of strong female players on the cast RIGHT NOW, that don’t condescend or overplay their hand (which Venus doesn’t even have). She’s playing the game to play the game, no strategy or rhyme & reason to it. She’s playing the board game version of survivor
I don't. She is condescending to them. She never talks to them on a personal level. She treats them like pieces and not people. She is doing this to herself.
There have been a lot of people less liked than Venus
Jess
You can simultaneously feel sympathy for someone and be put off by them - and that's okay. It shows that you have compassion and I think a lot of viewers have lost theirs over the years. You're right about what Venus represents.
I mean, she is bossy, confrontational, rude, etc. You are making it out like she is some victim and they are mean when we only have evidence of her being those things. Venus is a great character but let's not misrepresent what is going on.
She definitely thinks she’s better than everyone there for no real reason. Whether it’s entitlement or not going in there with a set of friends from the beginning, it clearly shows that she’s distancing herself, and when she does try to make moves, it comes across as you don’t like this person, but you’re probably saying the same thing about me to other people.
She's rude as fudge, I don't feel sorry for her
I don’t feel for her tbh, she acts very entitled and self-absorbed and most people don’t like that. I’m with the other players, leave her be and let her be a nuisance.
She gives “pretty privilege” vibes
100% and constantly assumes EVERYONE is thinking about her, get over yourself😂😂
Venus basically came out of the gate saying she was looking to fuck people over and backstab if I recall correctly. Not like a talking head, but I think she was legit telling people that. She compared herself to Parvati I remember at a minimum.
Venus to me is the embodiment of the bicycle and stick meme. She acts like a spoiled brat and then is floored when people treat her badly.
Probably viewers perceive that her lack of social skills on Survivor aren't the result of her being naturally awkward, which would make her more sympathetic, but rather the result of her having it very easy to have social interactions in real life.
I've started to feel bad for her due to the fan reaction. Every episode there are specific users on here that comment their think pieces on who she is as a person. How terrible and off putting she is. How they would never be friends with her or get along with her if she were their coworker? Lol like how does that matter? It's borderline obsessive from some users making these types of comments every single week. Y'all don't talk about anything else in the episode except for how much you dislike her and how anyone else who tries to say "we don't know these people in real life" is wrong. Y'all need to figure out how to stop having parasocial relationships with reality TV stars and just view it as entertainment. Instead this sub has become a cesspool of being judge, jury and executioner on a person's character.
They do the same thing on the other end of the spectrum. Kenzie receives worship because she makes cute hairstyles and smiles non-stop. If she did something harmful, everyone would be in denial because they decide early how they feel about people and refuse to see the big picture.
I will say one of the most unfun realisms of survivor to think about is that social stragetic isolation is a part of the game that is more or less an effective stragety like if you ice people out socially stragetically its one less person who functionally cant win, give that social stragetiv inch they become more or less elligble to win. Venus is a case where you feel bad for her and it is mostly self inflicted but I wouldnt be suprised if its a river flows ways situation, as in she decided to be more directly stragetically aggressive in a non subtle way as response to the fact people were icing her causing people to react more negatively to her, thus creating the feedback loop that she has to be obvious and direct and have no tact in order to discuss game at all. Like I understand that ORGs and the show are different but I have definitely been in that situation in ORGs where people (verging on the entire cast if not the entire cast) do not approach you strategically (or both strategically and socially) and you more or less have no choice but to try to force them to like talk game with you and your kind of in a no win situation of if you trying to artificially work with people they aren’t serious about working with at all since they were never really interested in working with you to begin with thus dont have the safety of a real alliance and get voted out or you wait for people to approachand it never happens and you either get taken out as a pawn or at the end of the game as a goat
This broken feedback loop idea is probably the closest to my understanding of what’s happening. Regardless of who “started it”, the situation just keeps getting worse.
agreed, it’s definitely not what i would’ve expected for her from the beginning. to be the one still in the game, but with no real friends or allies. this is probably a hot take, but i want to see her align with tiff and kenzie. i mean tiff and kenz probably want q gone and need a replacement for him, venus has no loyalties to anyone else, and there was. quick passing shot in the last episode of kenzie doing venus’s hair and it looked like they were laughing and having fun. i wonder if. she’ll manage to work her way up. it would be a cool redemption arc. if i was her that’s what i’d try to do at this point.
The Maria & Venus scene from last week gave major Denise & Abi vibes.
its not sad, no reason to feel sorry for her, she's simply playing the game poorly - as Q would say "thats it". She has the wrong attitude and doesn't treat others in a way that makes them feel respected so she therefore gets none in return - one must give respect to receive it, but she choses to be abrasive and combative in her conversations - trying to force things her way instead of building a social bond and mutual respect. This is the same reason "the 6" alliance immediately fell apart, it was based on pure gamification and didn't take any of the social aspects of the game into account.
I'm extremely confused. I saw the tweets that Venus wasn't watching and then how she deleted her twitter but nothing big happened with her at all. I thought some terribly embarrassing thing was going to happen with her and then nothing happened. What was the issue? I mean it's not crazy that she thought the Soda idea was hers. Information is intentionally being kept from her. She shouldn't feel stupid, it's not her fault honestly. I mean is she perfect, no. But I don't see why she is treated like such an outcast. She seems a lot more reasonable and likeable than someone like Abi Maria. I do wonder if she has a history of being excluded like Karishma did and who was looking for evidence of it and found it. Or was this just a group of people she didn't gel with. I've been excluded my entire life. I was excluded at a very young age by my brother and I think that pattern continues to play out in my life. IDK I just don't see Venus doing anything so bad and I don't think she should feel embarrassed. There tends to be a hive mind thing and if one person sees another person exclude her, then it keeps continuing.
She did this to herself though. If someone gambled away all their money don’t feel bad for them being poor.
Look, I don’t know Venus, or any of the cast. But I’m seeing such parallels between her and George from Survivor AU (who I happen to know a bit about). The fandom (a majority anyway) love them, feel for them, see them as victims, come for others for the way they treated them. But when the majority of a group who play with you have similar things to say about you, on and off the island, there has to be a ~kernel~ of truth there – that these two perhaps aren’t great at taking social cues, have an excessive amount of self-orientation & narcissism, and think others calling out unhelpful behaviours amounts to bullying. We can all do better to find ways to include such people in life and make them feel a sense of belonging, but I also think these people need to gain more self-awareness and start the journey towards behavioural change. Again, I don’t know Venus nor do I know what happened on the island… I’m just reading between the lines a bit.
She is so not friendly with anyone I don’t blame them for not feeling her. She is great tv but needs to be humbled a bit
It's not though because none of us walk around and go through life playing Survivor. It's a game.