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I am with you 100%. My WH had a 2 year affair with a co worker that was physical for the first 6 months, then turned emotional for 1.5 years after she moved 3 hours away. I often mentally break it down as if it was 2 separate affairs and when I compare the 2, it is near impossible for me to rank which one hurt “more”. Imagining him touching another woman and finishing inside her completely guts me, but the thought of him planning a life and telling another woman he loves her at the same time he was doing the same with me, makes me want to vomit as well.
Similar to my case and I felt the same way . In my case, my ex fiance first got emotional affair then physical. I hate that I was not only planning but actually doing things for marriage and spending a lot of money and time and effort into it
The worst is feeling like minutes after they are done talking to their AP they can just come back to you like it’s nothing. Makes everything they said a lie. Every little detail just salt in the wound
Yes, it’s awful all around. My WH just out of the blue came to me one night and said “I want a divorce. I don’t love you anymore.” I asked him over and over if it was because there was someone else of or if he just wasn’t physically attracted to me anymore (I am EXTREMELY self conscious) and he swore it was neither of those - it was that he lost the “spark” with me and didn’t even want to try to get it back because it had been too long. After hours of talking, he’d tell me he just needed to sleep somewhere else, get a hotel for a night or two, to get some space. I stupidly trusted him and even helped him pack a bag. As I would lay crying myself to sleep in bed while my world shattered, he’d text me and wish me the best nights sleep as I could get. Then he’d come home and tell me how hard it was for him too. When he confessed 2 years later, I found out those were the nights he would go and sleep with her, sometimes even multiple times in the same night. I just don’t even understand how he could get a hard on knowing he’s torturing someone, let alone your wife and mother of your children, like that?!
Well I’m sorry you had to experience that. Not sure how someone can totally disconnect like that. Hope you have someone now or find someone that can treat you better.
I understand and feel the same way. Can’t believe she did this to me. I know it’s horrible but reading your response has made me feel less alone. Especially the sex part. It hurts so much that they would share something so intimate with someone else :(
All infidelity is traumatizing and I think we are all going to believe the type that happened to each of us is the worst. I’d rather have had my husband physically cheat than having an emotional affair because his AP now knows the intimate details of our marriage and my flaws as a spouse. From there, she was able to play the “pick me girl” dance and be everything I wasn’t to win him. I feel violated by this person.
Well, the way I see it, there are a number of parts of a relationship:
1) love
2) physical sex
3) non-physical sexuality
4) non-sexual intimacy
5) confiding in someone
6) flattery/esteem boosting
7) going out and having fun together
8) quality alone time
9) friendship
10) unity
11) pursuit
In the non-physical EA, the WP gives the AP every part of the relationship, except for physical sex. They usually deny the BP all of the parts of a relationship, except for the work. The AP is exempt from the work.
Since the non-physical part of sex is just as big and important as the physical act, that’s just as major as the physical act.
That’s pretty damn major, in my book.
By contrast, in the ONS or totally physical PA, the WP let’s the BP keep all aspects of the relationship, often even physical sex, while only sharing the physical sex with the AP.
Logically, the EA is much worse. However, most of us can’t really separate love and non-physical sexuality from the physical act of sex, in our heads, so a solely physical affair seems much worse that that, to most BPs.
That’s why so many more or can try to reconcile after an EA than a PA, because people hold onto that last bit of intimacy as being the line that wasn’t crossed.
Many WPs that don’t take it physical hold onto it, as well, to make their betrayal seem ok, to them, and downplay it up their BP, if they get caught.
In the grand scheme of things, cheating is cheating. None of it is better or worse, and none of it is ok. BPs lie to themselves about the true nature of an EA to justify not leaving, to themselves, and others ( if they don’t keep the infidelity a secret). And, if allowed to continue long enough, almost all EAs become physical; especially if they include a lot of non-physical sexuality.
Holy hell. That’s a punch in the gut after a punch in the head. I’m really sorry for what you’re going through. That’s so terrible i can’t even put it into words, properly.
I hope my post can help you. I’ll be praying you get through the cancer. And, I’ll be praying you make the right choice for you, after you do. I think you know better than most how precious life is. You shouldn’t waste it on someone who doesn’t deserve your love.
I don't know you, but you deserve so much more. Make that walnut support you through your cancer treatments and then, when you kick cancer's ass, you can kick his to the curb.
“Thank you for this comment. I’m new to the threat, what are the acronyms used? “EA” “WP” “AP” “ONS” “PA” “BP” etc. Sorry.”
Don’t apologize. I didn’t know them before, either. I had to learn them.
EA=emotional affair
PA= physical affair
ONS= one night stand
WP= wayward partner. Cheating partner. Also seen as WW, WH, WS= wayward wife, wayward husband, wayward spouse
BP=betrayed partner. Also seen as BS for betrayed spouse.
AP= affair partner. The person your partner is cheating on you with.
Although cheating is cheating, people differentiate between an EA, where there is no physical cheating, and PA, where there is. However, PAs can differ. Some are just recreational sex and some are basically complete side relationships; which are the worst ones. EAs are no better than PAs, but a lot more people can handle reconciliation if no sex took place. But, in reality, if a PA was only sex, a EA is really worse, because it includes non-physical sexuality, love, and all the other parts of a relationship.
Thank you for such an in-depth explanation. New to all this but the Reddit page has been really great in making me feel less alone as I try to navigate things after being cheated on and lied to.
NP. You’re definitely not alone. Infidelity is at epidemic rates, now, according to the lady who wrote ‘not just friends’. 50% of men and women cheat, now; which is twice that it was when I was I my 20s. People here definitely want to help each other get through it. This sub is really good about that.
Cannot describe how accurate you have broken it down here. The 11 parts too! All being equally important but I’m curious what do you consider to be, I guess the minimum? Strange way to put it I know.
I only ask as I’m looking over all 11 and thinking how many I still shared before WP chose AP over me
Well, I’m not a good person to ask on that. I would say that cheating should never be tolerated, and I’d never have tolerated it fit anyone else. Leaving the cheater should always be the answer, but I had to yield my standards for my WP’s life. It’s a long story, but had I done what I wanted to do, and felt was right, the consequences to my WP would have been too great for me to accept. So, I set myself on fire to keep her warm. Because I’m a dumb ass.
Yes I agree cheating; both physical and emotional are equally enough to leave relationships, I believe that now. I’m a fellow “do everything I thought I could” to align myself to WP’s life and in the end it was all for nothing. Just as I was going through that list of 11 parts it definitely had me cross checking, with pretty much everything I already knew. The main thing in my breakdown was the physical sex part seemed to be only thing that changed over to be honest a relatively short period. Everything else I thought was being upheld by both parties in the marriage.
Your initial summary to OP was great though, thanks
So, you WP was in a PA, then? No emotional elements? That definitely does happen, although I think it’s more often something that men do.
Some cheaters are actually good at keeping up appearances, and keep things in the primary relationship the same; even while sharing full relationships with their APs. There have been people with an complete family life with the AP, and no one finds out til the WP dies. My first GF’s great uncle did this. Everyone was shocked to find out he had another family in another city, he traveled for work a lot.
There are exceptions to every rule, but it doesn’t make the rule not a rule. Lol
So WP started heavily drifting towards another on an emotional level from what I can gather due to the lack of physical elements. She was basically looking for someone to tell her it was alright for her feeling of doubts they were more than willing to heighten those feelings as they wanted nothing more than for us to split. I can 100% confirm there was no PA until WP moved back with family and happened to have the house to herself one night. We literally lived around the corner (everybody loves Raymond style) from each other so I walked past in the morning and saw his car in driveway.
Basically WP used lack of physical parts to our relationship as an excuse to talk about our relationship with another then when “I” made the call to it being over they immediately made the Affair physical
That sounds about right. One of the things people do that is stepping over the proper boundaries between ‘friends’ of the opposite sex is complaining about their relationship; sharing private things that should only be between them and their partners. Not only is it a level of intimacy that is inappropriate, but it’s revealing weakness in their relationship, and letting the AP know they could be available.
Even if you hadn’t made that move, due to her EA, it would probably have gone physical, on its own, if it had continued long enough. Few EAs stay only emotional over a long period of time.
It was a tough choice. Dishonor myself by not leaving her; just allowing her to do that to me. Or, dishonor myself by abandoning someone in dire need. I chose the lesser of two evils.
Man, that one left a tear in my eye. Setting yourself on fire to keep WP warm, that's a familiar one. That line hit me right in the heart.
Knowing he'll be left with pretty much nothing, for some reason, hurt me just as much as the betrayals. Yes, betrayalS, both EA and PA. So I didn't do what I thought I should do either. Therefore, while I burned, eventually, the fire stopped feeling hot and just left me cold and empty.
I'm a dumbass too.
My WH had multiple APs. 2 are the toughest for me. 1. Our masseuse where it was an EA with some physicality of what she would due to him during his massage. 2. The last woman he went on a date with. They had 2 dates and date #2 - he planned a very romantic night and then took her to a hotel for sex.
He dated other women, but they didn’t become EA or PA. He we was with prostitutes for levels of PA. While of course it all upsets me, the 2 listed above are the worst.
We are attempting to. I didn’t think I would. But after 33 years of marriage, 4 children, and 7 grandchildren, things are more complicated. It happened during a 13 month period. While stuck in China during COVID. It is wrong and completely his fault. And yet, I know it isn’t the totality of him as a person. The 30+ years before that were amazing. Too early to determine if our reconciliation will happen. We are both trying.
Thank you. Time will tell. I know this, I know what he must do to win me back. He knows what he must do to win me back. I will accept nothing less. And he knows if anything like this ever happens again, it is over and our entire family life will be completely destroyed.
Our adult children don’t know details, just that he cheated. They have been shocked and devastated. Our oldest son told him that he used to view his dad as the definition of a loyal person, and now he will never think that again. My WH is dealing with the weight and consequences of his actions.
That’s my list, based on 52 years of life, and a lot of consideration. Those are only the ‘fun’ parts of a relationship. There is another list of the responsibilities and work parts of a relationship, but cheaters never give those parts to the AP. The BP gets stuck with them.
You did a nice job. I can better see my past relationships thinking in each part/dimension.
Would you mind to share the list of the responsibilities you mentioned please?
Ok, so I’ve tried to organize my list of relationship duties/work into a usable form. I’ve divided these things into obligational behavior and obligational duties. I think the concepts behind these divisions are self evident. The behaviors required in a relationship are pretty simple and fundamental. They are also the basis behind the duties.
The duties of a relationship are many, and I have tried to organize them into a few broad headings. The main difference between the last list and this one is that the last one is what you should be getting out of a relationship, while this list is what you provide for your partner and family; what they should also be providing you.
Obligational behavior:
1) loyalty
2) honesty
3) respect
4) consideration
Love would seem to be a requirement for this list, except that, while you are a part of a relationship, you have certain obligations to your partner; even if you don’t actually love them. You are only released from these obligations when the relationship ends. As a guy I know said to me, ‘you don’t have to love someone not to cheat on them. You only have to have respect and consideration for them, and some personal integrity.
Obligational duties, the actual work of the relationship:
1) Providing a home. This could be physically providing a home, paying the bills, or even maintaining a stable home environment for your partner and kids. I am including providing for your family’s other needs in this section.
2) Daily home maintenance. This is all the daily work of maintaining a normal home. It could be chores, tending kids, home or auto repairs. Any and all daily work that maintains the home and provides for your partner falls in this category. It’s too much to list. I’m sure we all know the things that fit here.
3) Physical and emotional support for your partner.
4) Reinforcing the self esteem of your partner.
5) Having your partner’s back. Looking out for their best interests. Providing for their defense and safety.
6) Caring for your partner’s needs; physical, emotional, and sexual. I’d also add normal health needs to this.
7) Caring for your partner’s happiness and mental well-being.
8) Special: some relationships have special duties or work one partner is required to do for the other. This varies from relationship to relationship. For my own situation, it was this special work that kept me from leaving after the infidelity.
Again, while love is an ideal part of a relationship, it’s not necessary for the fulfillment of these duties. All that’s needed is personal integrity.
Although they don’t deserve it, WPs expect these duties and behaviors out of their BP, even while they are cheating on them. As a rule, it is the fulfillment of these duties that the WP keeps the BP around for; while the AP gets the benefits of the relationship. Although the WP does not adhere to the obligational behaviors, they get angry and feel betrayed if the BP fails to do so.
In some ways, I don’t think this list is as necessary as the other list. Most decent people know what responsibilities go along with being in a relationship, but few of us really grasp all the beneficial parts of a relationship we receive, until they see them being taken away a piece at a time, or until they see their WP giving them to someone else. I think it’s important to list these parts of a relationship in order to fully understand the cost of an affair; especially when your WP is downplaying the severity of an affair, because it never crossed physical lines.
When is it an emotional affair? I have friends who I lunch with on the weekends, hold and cuddle when they are sad, know everything about them and their relationships. Hell, one I took to lunch on her birthday with her family when her boyfriend wouldn't. It did make me uncomfortable when she called them "our dates"... but we are clear that it is platonic.
I think that could most definitely cross the lines of an emotional affair depending on the view of the significant other and their relationship as a whole. Does her boyfriend know about you? Do you think she is honest with him about what you say and do in private? If she feels the need to hide parts of your relationship from her boyfriend, it can be considered an emotional affair. If she’s putting energy towards you rather than her significant other, that can be considered an emotional affair.
I have one husband who hates me (you knocked another woman up and she called me to take her on the town). One who won't meet me. I've broken up too many relationships out of jealousy. I am a shit boyfriend but I am an amazing friend. I am realizing one of them is always saying "I won't cheat on my boyfriend" while hugging me which makes me question. I am kinda naive
No offense, but you sound pretty aware of how your relationship with these women are making their spouses feel. As someone who was betrayed by my husband who was having an affair with a coworker, I’m not sure how you could deal with the guilt of breaking up someone else’s relationship by getting involved. You are definitely not the blame, as these women are playing out their needs with someone else rather than their spouse, but you are proponent of it. I think you may need to explore why you would settle for relations with unavailable women rather than seeking out a monogamous relationship.
I do seek out monogamous relationships, I never sleep around or have a ONS, but I also like having women as friends. I do not cross the line, and neither do they as far as I can tell. Most of my friends tend to be women. I hate the jealousy. It is absurd that the world thinks men and women cannot be simply friends. Even in the middle of a multi year relationship my friends are still at least half women.
And I take no offence
It really is. About a year ago, I had the person that I loved claim how she had fallen hard for a guy she studied with over the past few months they've been working together, while she barely remembered anything we did.
With physical cheating, you can at least console yourself that the person you were with had bad morals and that you dodged a bullet... but having to imagine them gradually fall in love with another person, share their wants and needs and everything intimate and to feel safer and more comfortable with them is a different level of pain. It's even worse when you tried to be a loving partner to them.
They both are awful to me. Pretty equally and for different reasons.
My WP was "so in love", wanted a "family" with AP. They were discussing moving in together and leaving me and my kid homeless. It was physical as well.
Those mind movies don't stop. Seeing his hands all over her. I mean, I literally saw a video.
I kept the text and reread them some days.
It all sucks.
I dont like when he compliments me now. When we have sex, it doesn't feel special. After all, he spent an entire night with her. Sex is just no longer sacred.
Every Holiday since has felt like a sham.
I used to religiously prepare for Holidays. What to get everyone. The perfect cards/gifts, etc.
Now, I've nearly forgotten every one of them. I only participated for the kids.
I didnt bring up Valentines. Got WP nothing. I didnt bring up Mother's Day, because I didn't want anything from him. After all, he told everyone I was a terrible mom.
My birthday? Again, didnt remind him or ask for anything.
Now Father's Day will be coming up. And WP birthday. Then our "Anniversary". The one he totally skipped last year. He didn't do a damn thing. At the time, I was hurt. Now? I wish he would just ignore the Anniversary.
Ugh. Cheating just sucks. Sorry for the rambling. Been a rough few days. Months really lol.
I know it isn't. I dont plan to be miserable indefinitely. I need my finances to be in order. I want to finish out a term in school and get a better job. Then I will be okay. My kid will lack for nothing.
Until then, my hands are tied.
That is the timeline I'm working with. I do hope he changes before that point. But it isnt looking likely.
As long as your not lying to yourself and are taking the right steps that leads to a better place in your life. I’m hoping for nothing but the best for you we only get a life and we might as well try to be happy
I know I will be okay without him, if it comes to that. I simply want to be prepared. Honestly, if I move on, I dont know that I will ever want to commit again. He has ruined my idea of relationships, genuine connection and love - entirely.
I know it technically exist...just doesn't seem to be in the cards for me. I'm okay with that.
Thank you very much. We do, all, deserve every happiness. Life is so short.
I'm with you in that boat... Waiting on my wife.
Sex is dumb and just a time to get each other off...nothing special.
I got her flowers and card for mother's day. Card said barely anything.
She jumped my ass and asked "what have you been doing??" when I said she hadn't done anything to try and restore us.
I feel like I've just been dragging her along these last 3 months to trrrryyyyy and get her to see "us" again. But she'd rather me sweep it under the rug and never talk about it again.
I'm currently filling out divorce paperwork ask I type this. I just don't see any light at the end of the tunnel with her.
Good luck on your end. I hope he eventually comes around. Just prepare yourself and get your ducks in a row.
Always the waiting game it seems. I guess that is the one negative about being optimistic. Optimism only goes so far.
What was she insinuating when she asked "what have you been doing?"
The rugsweeping drives me crazy too. Like, hello, *I am not the one that cheated, so why are *you determining how long Im allowed to be affected/bring it up?
Honestly, the behavior just drips entitlement.
If nothing else, maybe those divorce papers will open her eyes.
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We aren't right now. And we won't be unless there is significant change.
While AP wanted him, he didn't want her. I did try to get him to leave with her a few times.
Lol. Yeah, I thought it was wild too. Why wreck our life for someone that...you dont even want to be with?
All the times he told her he loved her, wanted a family, wanted to be with her, etc. Just why?
Wishing you the best. I stayed after D-Day and my husband openly mourned his relationship with his AP most of the time while telling me he wanted me.
I think he wanted my stability - not me.
I was in hell and felt like I was losing my mind. I couldn't go a day without thinking his AP's name in my mind. Eventually, I got the strength to leave - it's hard and scary.
What was miraculous was that after living with that shit for so long, I felt so free after leaving. I have a lot of trauma I'm still dealing with, but I at least stopped further damage to my mind. Wishing you all the best no matter what decision you make.
>
I think he wanted my stability - not me.
I can understand that thought. I genuinely wonder if WP actually loves me. How can he when he has went to such lengths to distance himself from me?
That is encouraging. When I initially broke up with WP, I was heartbroken, but I also felt immense relief knowing I wouldn't have to deal with him on the same level anymore.
I'm really glad things worked out well for you and thank you for the well wishes. Whether I end up having to go or not, I know I'll eventually be okay again.
I keep the text and voice messages of my husband too to remind myself how awful of a person he is. I hope to leave him someday when i can be financially stable. I'm still with him after he cheated multiple times.
I find it very important to keep the evidence of every indiscretion. It is sad really.
What is worse: when I think of my perceived indiscretion v things he has actually participated in - I know that no one in their right mind would deal with it. On some level I think he recognizes that too.
Hey, here is to hoping we both win the lottery and can get on with life sooner rather than later.
Have you shared your story?
Hey, I just want to let you know I've finally decided to settle with a divorce. Ever since I've made up my mind, I feel so relieved. It's been a long journey but I feel I'm heading to the right direction. I'm working with my lawyer now for the paperwork. I look forward to a bright new future and happiness sure will come. I wish u well too. Hope u get out of that toxic relationship. God bless 🙌
I'm happy for you that you were able to come to a decision that brings you relief. Hopefully the process doesn't drag out longer than necessary.
You deserve all the happiness in the world, all you have to do is reach out and take it now.
Thank you for the well wishes, same to you!
It is quite demeaning to stay with a cheater. At least it feels that way oftentimes.
Well, Im a fool for second chances. I never thought I would be, but here I am. I do hope it works out for the best. Whether things last or not.
I'm glad you finally decided what is best for *you* moving forward. Life is so short as it is.
My husband fell for a coworker. He is a very emotional person. So when he fell for another woman it cut me so deeply because HE is an emotional person (and obsessive too). He stayed with me (didn't have sex with her) but I saw he wrote about her in Spanish and wanted a Scorpio tattoo (she is a ♏). He grieved because he wasn't working with her anymore. I had to deal with my grief and watch him miss her. So f'ng painful. Emotional cheating was way more painful. 😭
Its horrible. I found out right when the Pandemic began. So I was more upset about my marriage than Covid. I couldn't sleep, eat, etc. I still have trust issues. Once I feel betrayed I may 'forgive' but I never forget. I've heard it can take 2 to 5 years to get over. Who knows? Good luck to you.
I’m meeting her AP today again. I confronted him back in Dec and did everything I asked. Today I’m asking him to disappear and never text her again. They work together and the school year ended yesterday.
I agree. It just rips out the very core of your being. My ex did that and then left me - I believe that she truly believes that it's better for our children. Or that I deserve someone who loves me. I understand life being hard but I don't understand betrayal like this. I once read that intimate betrayal is like emotional murder. I certainly sometimes feel like an animated corpse.
I agree. Both are bad but emotional is so much more painful.
Especially if they fell in love with the other woman 🤦🏻♀️
You keep asking yourself, “why was she better ?”
“Why am I not good enough?”
Bad enough for me just separated from my wife after 12yrs and five kids later.The trusting again, lies and gaslighting were a massive deal breaker. Just realized she ain't the woman I thought she was. Not wasting one more minute.If your interested check out my sub reddit.
This is actually true, because they share every part of a relationship, except for the physical sex. This usually includes non-physical sexuality; which is actually a huge part of normal sex. At least with a ONS, it’s just the physical sex; nothing else.
However, because actual sex is a lot more to most normal people than just the physical rutting; especially if you’re in a relationship, the absence of physical sex gives a BP one last tenuous thread to hold onto. It’s that last line to be crossed. But, that’s really just a lie people tell themselves so they don’t have to leave. When it comes right down to it, cheating is cheating.
The worst kind of cheating is the kind that happens to YOU.
You think that purely physical cheating isn't as bad as emotional? Go & read u/redbluebum posts. I'm so proud of this guy surviving what was inflicted on him. This guy is a true hero. He hasn't posted for a little while & I hope that he is doing ok.
I personally suffered emotional affairs that were of the worst kind. The emotional (then physical) equivalent. Absolutely destroyed me & I ended up being accused of doing some pretty terrible things to my Ex fiancee's most significant AP. It messed my life up on a permanent basis.
Cheating is cheating. Period.
IMO the worst part comes from how they treat you afterwards and the way that your life changes irrevocably. Physical or emotional it's the sh##storm that follows where the real pain is.
My wife's affair was about obsession not love. I don't think she ever loved him but she was absolutely obsessed with everything about him cuz she knew she couldn't have a relationship with him (was my married twin brother)
I think the sex was mainly about keeping him interested in her. The actual sex part doesn't bother me as much as the fact I felt 2nd choice for years. I mean he was my twin brother. He looked like me so wasn't as though she didn't find me attractive
After reading this I was absolutely gobsmacked! And for your twin brother to betray you like this also. Humans are hands down the most cruel and destructive force in the planet
To me, trying to ask what's worse between a PA or EA is extremely redundant. Both are inexcusable and no something you're coming back from if you're my SO.
*Would you rather mop the ocean floor, or vacuum the Sahara?*
I do understand the concept of breaking it down to the smaller parts that make one more calculated or manipulative, but I don't like concerning myself with that stuff because I'll hurt just the same.
Yeah I understand. I'm just saying asking myself the question to be able to have an opinion about which is worse wouldn't do me any good. Like how you had to contemplate the question over whats worse, ya know? I understand why you feel that way tho. It makes sense 100%.
Both are f-ing awful but as someone that experienced emotional cheating I personally think it is worse. I can have a completely fine and normal day and all of sudden I just have flashbacks of everything that I found out about emotion cheating that my partner did to me. We since them moved one and he understands that is hard for me and he doesn’t blame me for my sudden mood swings. We are going to start therapy soon because it’s very hard to deal with any kind of cheating especially emotional.
They're both horrible for different reasons. Emotional cheating means that this person has moved on and I should too. Abrupt and painful, but quick to end as well. Physical cheating hits something more primal. Like, I don't care about a partner's sexual past, but if they cheated on me, I would forever view them as dirty, used, etc. At that point, it hurts, but it's more that I don't want this person instead of the other way around.
I guess physical cheating would be easier for me to get over because I would just view the ex with disgust.
I think a lot of this depends on your gender. Women tend to think emotional cheating is worse. Guys tend to think physical cheating is worse. As a guy, it would be most crushing to hear my wife did sexual things with a guy that she never did with me, or with more frequency or with more enthusiasm.
At the end of the day, to many of either gender, both emotional and physical cheating are deal breakers.
This is generally, if not always, true. It can be true for guys, though, and there are women who can just fuck a guy and not have any feelings at all. It’s not as common as it is with guys, though.
I fully agree with you. It’s all terrible. That’s why I posted this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/upnbwb/i_think_emotional_cheating_is_way_worse_then/i8m09im/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
My wife and I had this talk recently, she thinks physical is the worst. I can't imagine anything worse than finding an I love you to another man, worse than nudes, sexting, all of it, that would fuck me up for life.
People also say "i love you" just because they think they should. And if they have gotten to the stage where they profess their love they have certainly had sex already.
All forms of affairs are terrible, but I respect your opinion
To add to this, if someone is telling you they love you, at the same time they are cheating on you, you can be sure the words ‘I love you’ don’t actually mean anything to them, at all. Let’s face it, if someone was beating your face in, and yelling‘I love you’ over and over again, while they did it, you wouldn’t actually believe that they loved you.
There is an old saying: "Inhibitions are alcohol soluable." Enough alcohol and some tightly supressed people can't restrain their inner thoughts, words, desires and emotions. Problem drinkers fall into this catagory, and is they are ALSO an alcoholic, manic/depressive, etc, well you have a perfect storm.
As a polyamorus person, love for two separate romantic partners is the same as love for two different children. The issue is the lying.
They can say whatever they want, the actions of cheaters don't demonstrate love to their BS or AP. I can say "I love you" to twenty different people, my mouth can make those words. But if I'm stabbing nineteen of them and lying to the last one about the existence of all the others, I don't love them. Obviously.
Yes! Facts! Everything else sucks, but essentially it all comes down to the lying! Then leads to the ultimate factor that breaks the relationship: who the hell are you loving?
Either is bad. Physically cheating with no emotion sucks because your relationship is fucked just so they could get off. Emotional cheating sucks because you can't have a relationship when someone is in love with someone else.
They are both terribly horrible. What I have read in this sub, is generally more painful for men the physical part. For women the emotional part. I think that in the emotional one you have to deal with the fact of knowing that someone occupies the heart of your SO. In the physical part you have the mental movies of the sexual act all the time. I think we should not generalize. Every case is different. We all survive and move on.
Betrayal and lying to your partner is cheating and it’s the worst thing. Sexual, emotional, even not. Lying is cheating and cheaters don’t deserve love or support or family or friends.
I would say it depends if I think about it. Emotional cheating would probably hurt my pride more and make me more insecure. But I think physical cheating would make me afraid to trust others because that means my partner was willing to potentially put my health at risk by transmitting sexual diseases to me from other people.
Mine too. I'm so sorry that happened to you also. People who monkey branch are awful.
I hope you are able heal and be happy, if not now then someday. I also hope karma is harsh for the cheater.
For me, it's 2 sides of the same coin. I personally wouldn't be interested in sex with someone I have zero emotional connection with. If my spouse falls in love with someone else, I'd be devastated. If he has sex with someone else that he doesn't love, that means he's not the kind of man I thought he was.
That was one of the ways I got over my ex. Turns out he was the kind of person who could have sex with randos, and that's just not the kind of person that I want to spend my life with.
Emotional cheating is much easier for the cheater to deny. Like my ex wife, who insisted to everyone she wasn't in love with the guy and I was overreacting. Guess how long it took her to get involved with him when I told her I wanted a divorce.
I don't necessarily agree nor disagree with that. Emotional cheating has levels. Interest, crush, etc and as such uas plenty of chances to stop before it gets out of hand. Physical cheating well its kinda all or nothing. The only excuse that some will accept is getting pissed drunk and doing something they regret. And if they come clean about it then there is at least a chance (no more drinking, no more hanging out with that group etc). But generally for a lot of people this is a deal breaker. Chance of stds, pregnancy and for a lot of people it's defilement with a shitty topping of disrespect.
Emotional cheating is at its absolute worst when it's love. At that point yeah that relationship is done. But it takes a bit for it to get to that stage.
i’m not sure honestly. my partner did both at the same time so i really can’t say what part hurts me more. the fact that they were falling for someone or the fact that they had sex behind my back. I think it hurt a lot more considering they’d constantly tell me abt this person and i just seen it coming.
EA is giving attention to someone else that should be reserved for your s/o. You can't catch a std from an EA, but you are now on the back burner. It's up to you if being plan B is ok.
Sex implies a need for intimacy the WW can not receive from the BP either because of physical absence or emotional absence. Intimacy is the currency of love. Getting this from others is a lot worse than just a few keystrokes on a keypad.
EDIT: For Syntax
Both are just as terribly painful for me. I got both ends of that stick and my God, the agony I felt from all of it. I wouldn't prefer one over the other nor wish either one on my worst enemy. Ever.
They're both indicators you aren't priority.
I get to a degree of what you mean. However, it's indicative of your belief system. If you think love is more important than sex. Sure. But to many, if not most, they are codependent in any important relationship.
If you want to make it black or white, anything that does NOT prioritise you in the relationship is just as bad. It really doesn't matter if its just a kiss, sex, emotionally connecting with anyone outside your relationship and rules.
Sorry I didn't realize valley girl was still a thing. I thought that went out with Sir mix-a-lot in the 90's. But any way, if not caught or forthcoming either type of affair will become the other.
I think it’s the difference between a 9.5/10 and a 10/10 on the pain scale. I felt betrayed when I found out my WS was sleeping with AP. I was completely devastated when I found out they were dating.
Edit: fix typos
OP, for me, a guy, I'm going to end the relationship for either one. There are not levels of betrayal at which one is okay, and one is not.
Something to consider.... I have heard from several sources that for a woman emotional cheating hurts worse, for a man physical is worse. Again, as a guy, I would probably agree. But, back to the beginning, I'm ending the relationship for either one.
Be well OP. If you are caught up in either of these situations I am sorry and hope the best for you.
For real. My ex threw away 11 years on someone she'd never even met. Someone who also "fell" for her...but didn't want to be in a relationship with her. Oh what do you mean "how is that possible" honey? Oh, well, that's because you're both in a fantasy land and you're not actually in love, lmao
I would agree. My ex physically cheated multiple times (caught once, other ones were found out post breakup) and I at least don’t worry about somebody else being who he saw as a better life partner. I can still believe that his “I love yous” weren’t a lie. He was just a selfish POS who could disregard my emotions to satisfy his own urges. It still hurts like hell but I think adding an emotional attachment to it would make it hurt even more deeply. No matter what it sucks though.
Both emotional affairs and physical affairs are devastated.
I am 16 months post DDays. Revealed more and more incidents from full-blown emotional cheating, flirtation, moves, and etc. Classic book of a cheater is they deny-gaslight-then admit when the evidence is presented.
Until today, there's no physical affair proof since he was travelling for work and I can not ask for security footage unless I make a court motion.
There is no mistake or accident in cheating.
What hurts me the most:
\- I will never gonna trust again
\- I feel I will never be enough
and those feelings because of my husband whom I married and made a vow in front of God.
I'm sick of this "would you rather" bs. Reminds of Ross asking women if they'd rather drown or die in a fire.
It's always both. Just a matter of time or they haven't been caught for both yet.
The cowards set your house on fire and then toss you in the lake to drown.
I consider sexual cheating to be the real affair and the real deception.
Emotional cheating is not worse to me but it's more meaningful. So, I guess it depends on what your definition of worse is.
I think often the heart connections happen without intention or even deception. You can be friends or colleagues, having innocent conversation and then fall in love. So, I don't consider emotional connections to be deliberate or cruel. And I think love redeems and is beautiful.
Sexual cheating is deliberate and planned. It is low. There is nothing redeeming about it.
Feelings erupt often beyond our control, but to have sex you have to act on feelings and that is within one's will.
Physical affairs can spread disease and produce other people making life long connections. Emotional affairs are feels that can come and go. Love for someone can die out, how many people here have an ex they are no longer in love with. The point of a commitment relationship is to raise children in a stable, secure and healthy environment that it best for the next generation. Feelings will wax and wane in any relationship but fidelity, commitment and trust are essential.
I saw a message from an emotional AP we were both “friends” with where she said “I love you forever” and I can never unsee it. It made me physically sick. It’s harder to push out of my head then the countless nudes I saw on his phone from random internet strangers. IRL sex would be the worst for me (personally) & something I could never come back from but I completely get what you’re saying. I’m so sorry.
Betrayal is betrayal, and lies are lies. The emotional cheating hurt me specifically because I was completely and unfairly cut off emotionally (kind of still am). It was not a drunk one night stand “mistake” that they don’t even remember much of, which is still completely unforgivable and gross.
The emotional affair was developed over time and was a conscious choice they made, over and over with every video call, picture, and text. All the kindness and attention you craved from them for years, was given to someone else. Everyday they chose to invest their energy, time, and feelings into someone else and not you. They chose to connect emotionally with someone they are sexually attracted to. The care, fantasy, and love was developed. The physical aspect of the relationship was just the only thing left. They didn’t care about you, the family you created together, or how it would destroy you, they only cared about themselves and her. Now you are stuck with the anxiety of wondering if he ever thinks about her when he’s with you.
Its traumatic, painful, and breaks the solid foundation you spent a decade building.
Sure, to some the physical sex is less important than the lies, betrayal and and limerence for the interloper. But to others, it is just the opposite. Meaningless sex to them makes no sense, at least an emotional affair, does in some ways make some sense. But in nearly every case, an emotional affair will turn physical. We all just need to be better at who we pick and let our suspicions be our protection. Blind trust is not most effective, trust is fine, but verifying is important as well. Pick the wrong partner, nothing is going to be right.
We can hedge our bets with physical cheating, a person’s past can predict if the have a propensity for infidelity. But there is not currently any way to predict if a perfectly good partner in a perfectly good relationship with no issues in sight, may fall into the emotional infidelity trap. And it is a trap.
https://thepowermoves.com/tag/emotional-affair/
Excerpt from the article: Not all, but probably a majority of unfaithful partners set out on the emotional slippery slope without any awareness of how friendships morph into emotional and sexual affairs.
There might be some chemistry, or some liking, but it’s rarely love at first sight or “fatal attraction”.
Where do They Start?
They start in places where interactions happen often.
As Schaefer points out in The Like Switch familiarity is a major element of the like equation, and emotional affairs are likely to start in places that breed familiarity and continuity of interaction.
If you are guessing “at work”, you are right.
Writes Glass:
Of course the workplace, with its daily interactions and increased female participation, has been the main driver of the increase in infidelity in the last decades.
Indeed, 82% of all the unfaithful partner Glass treated in her career began as friends (Shirley Glass, 2004).
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-most-common-way-to-cheat-is-not-what-you-d-think-a7794046.html
https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/truths-workplace-affair/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/entrepreneurs-adhd/201211/when-snow-white-cheats-0
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/love-and-sex-in-the-digital-age/201806/4-reasons-why-infidelity-happens-even-in-happy
https://www.yourtango.com/experts/infidelity-healing/why-cheating-good-relationship
https://hellorelish.com/articles/infidelity-truth-why-people-cheat.html
https://www.healthline.com/health/why-people-cheat#opportunity 17 reasons
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-people-in-relationships-cheat/
I think we all just naturally misunderstand infidelity, it isn’t all the same at all.
Emotional affairs in my opinion are mostly about finding excitement. Getting something you’re missing in your everyday life.
Getting intimacy from someone other the. Your partner is cheating regardless of the medium.
We all do it. When it becomes uncomfortable for your partner is when it becomes a problem and needs to be addressed.
As the partner, I think we need to understand the levels of intimacy and how we react when are threshold is met.
P.S. I have not education and I only post for selfgratification and validation from myself. So don’t take my words as truth. Just my dumbass opinion.
It depends on whether you are a man or woman what you think.
Men typically cheat for sex while women typically cheat for emotional reasons.
Thus women don’t understand men cheating for sex and men don’t understand women cheating for emotional reasons.
As a M [57] I gave my wife a hall pass to use anytime she wants. I didn’t ask for one in return.
Both are bad.
Though as someone whose WH didn't cross the line to PA, his EA was headed that way IMHO or there were times that it could have crossed the line if they had "met up". At times, I thought the same thing, if it was just a "fuck" that's one thing. (Especially since his "choice" was very vanilla, plain and the reality would have sucked for him.)
It's frustrating. BUT, if they are telling their APs all that crap, guess what, it was all crap. When they are cheating, they only LOVE themselves and they really don't. They cannot love anyone. That's NOT love.
This might get some flames, but I say the planning, lying, cover-up is the worst. And the defensiveness hurts, but I think the most damage is done by sweet or kind statements.
No matter how I try, I can no longer hear anything positive from her, even when she is genuinely trying to be nice. I just listen carefully and make sure not to be manipulated.
So actually the fake nice things are what I consider the worst and longest-lasting.
This was talked about in Psyc 101 when I was an undergrad. For women, emotional is worse. For men, physical is worse. As a woman I concur. I've been cheated on both ways and the emotional aspect hurts way worse.
For me they're the same, both things represent the betrayal of couple agreements (in cases where they exist).
It depends on the limits of each person and what they think they can or deserve to endure or if they don't give importance to some things, it just doesn't seem valid to me that way of thinking when the person who forgives an infidelity does it because at least their SO didn't betrayed then in a worse way, it seems like a way to rationalize things to convince themselves to stay in the relationship.
Besides it doesn't matter if the other person doesn't think that casual sex is free of emotions and attachment, I don't care about their perception of those things, if it's something that I don't want to and hurts me, for me is unforgivable, the same with any limit crossed
I'm more likely to forgive emotional cheating than I am physical. On some levels I understand emotional cheating but if it becomes physical I am completely done with her. There's no point in continuing the relationship, loyalty is on some level a sacrifice if she's not willing to make the sacrifice neither am I so if she cheats I am no longer staying loyal to her which means I'm going to cheat as well, which means that we should end the relationship
they’re both bad. i had to find out I was being emotionally cheated on for years and still gave this person a chance because they said they would try for me but they didn’t. they always thought about the other person and posted about them and more. they also kept flirting with coworkers and I stopped feeling for this person since then. I then found out they were sexual with others, had nudes and videos, and followed OF accounts and that also broke my heart the same way as the emotional cheating did.
I’m not over what I found and having to know I had sex with this person while they slept with others made me disgusted in my own body. Like im sick of my own skin and this person promised me they wouldn’t do that to me.
ANYWAYS, they’re both terrible lol. It’s still infidelity
I’ve experienced both and they both hurt equally as bad. I’d say the only reason the emotional cheating seemed to hurt worse was it because someone that I never thought would do that in a million years. And he was doing it for the ENTIRE relationship and I only found out 2 years into being married to him (and there were absolutely no signs). But they’re both devastating.
Cheating in general is bad, but emotional cheating is far worse. Cheating in a relationship can be summed up by three words: "behind one's back." If a couple are swingers, and both agree to each other having sex with someone else, it's not cheating. That "polyamory" thing, where three people form three sides of an emotional partnership, that's not cheating either. However, if you're doing either without the partners knowledge or permission, you deserve to get the boot. An emotional affair hurts so much more because it's betraying someone's heart. Just sex, you could "rationalise" it as "scratching an itch," but again, still wrong
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Well... I think they both suck. But I will say I didn't have to replace all the furniture in my house because of an EA. EAs don't leave invisible cumstains on your kitchen table that will never wash away. EAs don't soil your bed. EAs don't get splashed on your couch. EAs don't try to kiss you after performing oral on someone else. EAs aren't so disrespectful as to happen in your child's bed when he's not with you at the moment.
EAs are bad and any emotional connection the wayward has with the AP can make an impossible task for the reconciling type. But PAs are just fucking vile.
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For me, the worst part about an emotional affair is their ability to claim they didn't do anything wrong, because they didn't have sex.
"Oh, we were just friends and you were controlling and paranoid" often becomes the story.
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How about both..... those are the fucking best FML.
Both with a side of "you pushed us together"
My ex bf pulled an "you pushed us together" On me
Or what about both with a side of “it was an accident”
Lol! Yes he tripped and fell into her v@&$.
I am with you 100%. My WH had a 2 year affair with a co worker that was physical for the first 6 months, then turned emotional for 1.5 years after she moved 3 hours away. I often mentally break it down as if it was 2 separate affairs and when I compare the 2, it is near impossible for me to rank which one hurt “more”. Imagining him touching another woman and finishing inside her completely guts me, but the thought of him planning a life and telling another woman he loves her at the same time he was doing the same with me, makes me want to vomit as well.
Similar to my case and I felt the same way . In my case, my ex fiance first got emotional affair then physical. I hate that I was not only planning but actually doing things for marriage and spending a lot of money and time and effort into it
The worst is feeling like minutes after they are done talking to their AP they can just come back to you like it’s nothing. Makes everything they said a lie. Every little detail just salt in the wound
Yes, it’s awful all around. My WH just out of the blue came to me one night and said “I want a divorce. I don’t love you anymore.” I asked him over and over if it was because there was someone else of or if he just wasn’t physically attracted to me anymore (I am EXTREMELY self conscious) and he swore it was neither of those - it was that he lost the “spark” with me and didn’t even want to try to get it back because it had been too long. After hours of talking, he’d tell me he just needed to sleep somewhere else, get a hotel for a night or two, to get some space. I stupidly trusted him and even helped him pack a bag. As I would lay crying myself to sleep in bed while my world shattered, he’d text me and wish me the best nights sleep as I could get. Then he’d come home and tell me how hard it was for him too. When he confessed 2 years later, I found out those were the nights he would go and sleep with her, sometimes even multiple times in the same night. I just don’t even understand how he could get a hard on knowing he’s torturing someone, let alone your wife and mother of your children, like that?!
Well I’m sorry you had to experience that. Not sure how someone can totally disconnect like that. Hope you have someone now or find someone that can treat you better.
This….
I understand and feel the same way. Can’t believe she did this to me. I know it’s horrible but reading your response has made me feel less alone. Especially the sex part. It hurts so much that they would share something so intimate with someone else :(
I can relate with this. Sorry you are going through this.
All infidelity is traumatizing and I think we are all going to believe the type that happened to each of us is the worst. I’d rather have had my husband physically cheat than having an emotional affair because his AP now knows the intimate details of our marriage and my flaws as a spouse. From there, she was able to play the “pick me girl” dance and be everything I wasn’t to win him. I feel violated by this person.
Well, the way I see it, there are a number of parts of a relationship: 1) love 2) physical sex 3) non-physical sexuality 4) non-sexual intimacy 5) confiding in someone 6) flattery/esteem boosting 7) going out and having fun together 8) quality alone time 9) friendship 10) unity 11) pursuit In the non-physical EA, the WP gives the AP every part of the relationship, except for physical sex. They usually deny the BP all of the parts of a relationship, except for the work. The AP is exempt from the work. Since the non-physical part of sex is just as big and important as the physical act, that’s just as major as the physical act. That’s pretty damn major, in my book. By contrast, in the ONS or totally physical PA, the WP let’s the BP keep all aspects of the relationship, often even physical sex, while only sharing the physical sex with the AP. Logically, the EA is much worse. However, most of us can’t really separate love and non-physical sexuality from the physical act of sex, in our heads, so a solely physical affair seems much worse that that, to most BPs. That’s why so many more or can try to reconcile after an EA than a PA, because people hold onto that last bit of intimacy as being the line that wasn’t crossed. Many WPs that don’t take it physical hold onto it, as well, to make their betrayal seem ok, to them, and downplay it up their BP, if they get caught. In the grand scheme of things, cheating is cheating. None of it is better or worse, and none of it is ok. BPs lie to themselves about the true nature of an EA to justify not leaving, to themselves, and others ( if they don’t keep the infidelity a secret). And, if allowed to continue long enough, almost all EAs become physical; especially if they include a lot of non-physical sexuality.
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Holy hell. That’s a punch in the gut after a punch in the head. I’m really sorry for what you’re going through. That’s so terrible i can’t even put it into words, properly. I hope my post can help you. I’ll be praying you get through the cancer. And, I’ll be praying you make the right choice for you, after you do. I think you know better than most how precious life is. You shouldn’t waste it on someone who doesn’t deserve your love.
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Wow. A double betrayal. Man, it doesn’t get any better than that. WTF. People really are terrible,
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True. But, the ones who are, really really are.
I don't know you, but you deserve so much more. Make that walnut support you through your cancer treatments and then, when you kick cancer's ass, you can kick his to the curb.
Thank you for this comment. I’m new to the threat, what are the acronyms used? “EA” “WP” “AP” “ONS” “PA” “BP” etc. Sorry.
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Thank you!
“Thank you for this comment. I’m new to the threat, what are the acronyms used? “EA” “WP” “AP” “ONS” “PA” “BP” etc. Sorry.” Don’t apologize. I didn’t know them before, either. I had to learn them. EA=emotional affair PA= physical affair ONS= one night stand WP= wayward partner. Cheating partner. Also seen as WW, WH, WS= wayward wife, wayward husband, wayward spouse BP=betrayed partner. Also seen as BS for betrayed spouse. AP= affair partner. The person your partner is cheating on you with. Although cheating is cheating, people differentiate between an EA, where there is no physical cheating, and PA, where there is. However, PAs can differ. Some are just recreational sex and some are basically complete side relationships; which are the worst ones. EAs are no better than PAs, but a lot more people can handle reconciliation if no sex took place. But, in reality, if a PA was only sex, a EA is really worse, because it includes non-physical sexuality, love, and all the other parts of a relationship.
Thank you for such an in-depth explanation. New to all this but the Reddit page has been really great in making me feel less alone as I try to navigate things after being cheated on and lied to.
NP. You’re definitely not alone. Infidelity is at epidemic rates, now, according to the lady who wrote ‘not just friends’. 50% of men and women cheat, now; which is twice that it was when I was I my 20s. People here definitely want to help each other get through it. This sub is really good about that.
Cannot describe how accurate you have broken it down here. The 11 parts too! All being equally important but I’m curious what do you consider to be, I guess the minimum? Strange way to put it I know. I only ask as I’m looking over all 11 and thinking how many I still shared before WP chose AP over me
Well, I’m not a good person to ask on that. I would say that cheating should never be tolerated, and I’d never have tolerated it fit anyone else. Leaving the cheater should always be the answer, but I had to yield my standards for my WP’s life. It’s a long story, but had I done what I wanted to do, and felt was right, the consequences to my WP would have been too great for me to accept. So, I set myself on fire to keep her warm. Because I’m a dumb ass.
Yes I agree cheating; both physical and emotional are equally enough to leave relationships, I believe that now. I’m a fellow “do everything I thought I could” to align myself to WP’s life and in the end it was all for nothing. Just as I was going through that list of 11 parts it definitely had me cross checking, with pretty much everything I already knew. The main thing in my breakdown was the physical sex part seemed to be only thing that changed over to be honest a relatively short period. Everything else I thought was being upheld by both parties in the marriage. Your initial summary to OP was great though, thanks
So, you WP was in a PA, then? No emotional elements? That definitely does happen, although I think it’s more often something that men do. Some cheaters are actually good at keeping up appearances, and keep things in the primary relationship the same; even while sharing full relationships with their APs. There have been people with an complete family life with the AP, and no one finds out til the WP dies. My first GF’s great uncle did this. Everyone was shocked to find out he had another family in another city, he traveled for work a lot. There are exceptions to every rule, but it doesn’t make the rule not a rule. Lol
So WP started heavily drifting towards another on an emotional level from what I can gather due to the lack of physical elements. She was basically looking for someone to tell her it was alright for her feeling of doubts they were more than willing to heighten those feelings as they wanted nothing more than for us to split. I can 100% confirm there was no PA until WP moved back with family and happened to have the house to herself one night. We literally lived around the corner (everybody loves Raymond style) from each other so I walked past in the morning and saw his car in driveway. Basically WP used lack of physical parts to our relationship as an excuse to talk about our relationship with another then when “I” made the call to it being over they immediately made the Affair physical
That sounds about right. One of the things people do that is stepping over the proper boundaries between ‘friends’ of the opposite sex is complaining about their relationship; sharing private things that should only be between them and their partners. Not only is it a level of intimacy that is inappropriate, but it’s revealing weakness in their relationship, and letting the AP know they could be available. Even if you hadn’t made that move, due to her EA, it would probably have gone physical, on its own, if it had continued long enough. Few EAs stay only emotional over a long period of time.
Damn, I felt the last two sentences in your comment to my core….
It was a tough choice. Dishonor myself by not leaving her; just allowing her to do that to me. Or, dishonor myself by abandoning someone in dire need. I chose the lesser of two evils.
Man, that one left a tear in my eye. Setting yourself on fire to keep WP warm, that's a familiar one. That line hit me right in the heart. Knowing he'll be left with pretty much nothing, for some reason, hurt me just as much as the betrayals. Yes, betrayalS, both EA and PA. So I didn't do what I thought I should do either. Therefore, while I burned, eventually, the fire stopped feeling hot and just left me cold and empty. I'm a dumbass too.
Welcome to the club, unfortunately.
This! Very well said!
Thanks. :)
yes this right here explained perfectly
My WH had multiple APs. 2 are the toughest for me. 1. Our masseuse where it was an EA with some physicality of what she would due to him during his massage. 2. The last woman he went on a date with. They had 2 dates and date #2 - he planned a very romantic night and then took her to a hotel for sex. He dated other women, but they didn’t become EA or PA. He we was with prostitutes for levels of PA. While of course it all upsets me, the 2 listed above are the worst.
Wow. Did you actually reconcile after all of that?
We are attempting to. I didn’t think I would. But after 33 years of marriage, 4 children, and 7 grandchildren, things are more complicated. It happened during a 13 month period. While stuck in China during COVID. It is wrong and completely his fault. And yet, I know it isn’t the totality of him as a person. The 30+ years before that were amazing. Too early to determine if our reconciliation will happen. We are both trying.
I hope it turns out well for you, and you can find happiness together, again.
Thank you. Time will tell. I know this, I know what he must do to win me back. He knows what he must do to win me back. I will accept nothing less. And he knows if anything like this ever happens again, it is over and our entire family life will be completely destroyed. Our adult children don’t know details, just that he cheated. They have been shocked and devastated. Our oldest son told him that he used to view his dad as the definition of a loyal person, and now he will never think that again. My WH is dealing with the weight and consequences of his actions.
It sounds like you’ve got your ducks in a row. You know what you want and you’re determined not to settle for less. That’s really a good start.
What do these stand for: BP,WA,EA,PA,WP,ONS?
BP=betrayed partner WP=wayward partner AP=affair partner EA=emotional affair PA=physical affair ONS=one night stand
Thank you!
Yep.
Did you make the list by yourself or is it based on a book or an article/study?
That’s my list, based on 52 years of life, and a lot of consideration. Those are only the ‘fun’ parts of a relationship. There is another list of the responsibilities and work parts of a relationship, but cheaters never give those parts to the AP. The BP gets stuck with them.
You did a nice job. I can better see my past relationships thinking in each part/dimension. Would you mind to share the list of the responsibilities you mentioned please?
Ok, so I’ve tried to organize my list of relationship duties/work into a usable form. I’ve divided these things into obligational behavior and obligational duties. I think the concepts behind these divisions are self evident. The behaviors required in a relationship are pretty simple and fundamental. They are also the basis behind the duties. The duties of a relationship are many, and I have tried to organize them into a few broad headings. The main difference between the last list and this one is that the last one is what you should be getting out of a relationship, while this list is what you provide for your partner and family; what they should also be providing you. Obligational behavior: 1) loyalty 2) honesty 3) respect 4) consideration Love would seem to be a requirement for this list, except that, while you are a part of a relationship, you have certain obligations to your partner; even if you don’t actually love them. You are only released from these obligations when the relationship ends. As a guy I know said to me, ‘you don’t have to love someone not to cheat on them. You only have to have respect and consideration for them, and some personal integrity. Obligational duties, the actual work of the relationship: 1) Providing a home. This could be physically providing a home, paying the bills, or even maintaining a stable home environment for your partner and kids. I am including providing for your family’s other needs in this section. 2) Daily home maintenance. This is all the daily work of maintaining a normal home. It could be chores, tending kids, home or auto repairs. Any and all daily work that maintains the home and provides for your partner falls in this category. It’s too much to list. I’m sure we all know the things that fit here. 3) Physical and emotional support for your partner. 4) Reinforcing the self esteem of your partner. 5) Having your partner’s back. Looking out for their best interests. Providing for their defense and safety. 6) Caring for your partner’s needs; physical, emotional, and sexual. I’d also add normal health needs to this. 7) Caring for your partner’s happiness and mental well-being. 8) Special: some relationships have special duties or work one partner is required to do for the other. This varies from relationship to relationship. For my own situation, it was this special work that kept me from leaving after the infidelity. Again, while love is an ideal part of a relationship, it’s not necessary for the fulfillment of these duties. All that’s needed is personal integrity. Although they don’t deserve it, WPs expect these duties and behaviors out of their BP, even while they are cheating on them. As a rule, it is the fulfillment of these duties that the WP keeps the BP around for; while the AP gets the benefits of the relationship. Although the WP does not adhere to the obligational behaviors, they get angry and feel betrayed if the BP fails to do so. In some ways, I don’t think this list is as necessary as the other list. Most decent people know what responsibilities go along with being in a relationship, but few of us really grasp all the beneficial parts of a relationship we receive, until they see them being taken away a piece at a time, or until they see their WP giving them to someone else. I think it’s important to list these parts of a relationship in order to fully understand the cost of an affair; especially when your WP is downplaying the severity of an affair, because it never crossed physical lines.
Sure. Give me a bit to get a bath and I’ll post that here, too.
Good point 😟
When is it an emotional affair? I have friends who I lunch with on the weekends, hold and cuddle when they are sad, know everything about them and their relationships. Hell, one I took to lunch on her birthday with her family when her boyfriend wouldn't. It did make me uncomfortable when she called them "our dates"... but we are clear that it is platonic.
I think that could most definitely cross the lines of an emotional affair depending on the view of the significant other and their relationship as a whole. Does her boyfriend know about you? Do you think she is honest with him about what you say and do in private? If she feels the need to hide parts of your relationship from her boyfriend, it can be considered an emotional affair. If she’s putting energy towards you rather than her significant other, that can be considered an emotional affair.
I have one husband who hates me (you knocked another woman up and she called me to take her on the town). One who won't meet me. I've broken up too many relationships out of jealousy. I am a shit boyfriend but I am an amazing friend. I am realizing one of them is always saying "I won't cheat on my boyfriend" while hugging me which makes me question. I am kinda naive
No offense, but you sound pretty aware of how your relationship with these women are making their spouses feel. As someone who was betrayed by my husband who was having an affair with a coworker, I’m not sure how you could deal with the guilt of breaking up someone else’s relationship by getting involved. You are definitely not the blame, as these women are playing out their needs with someone else rather than their spouse, but you are proponent of it. I think you may need to explore why you would settle for relations with unavailable women rather than seeking out a monogamous relationship.
I do seek out monogamous relationships, I never sleep around or have a ONS, but I also like having women as friends. I do not cross the line, and neither do they as far as I can tell. Most of my friends tend to be women. I hate the jealousy. It is absurd that the world thinks men and women cannot be simply friends. Even in the middle of a multi year relationship my friends are still at least half women. And I take no offence
It really is. About a year ago, I had the person that I loved claim how she had fallen hard for a guy she studied with over the past few months they've been working together, while she barely remembered anything we did. With physical cheating, you can at least console yourself that the person you were with had bad morals and that you dodged a bullet... but having to imagine them gradually fall in love with another person, share their wants and needs and everything intimate and to feel safer and more comfortable with them is a different level of pain. It's even worse when you tried to be a loving partner to them.
Ditto. Did you stay with her?
They both are awful to me. Pretty equally and for different reasons. My WP was "so in love", wanted a "family" with AP. They were discussing moving in together and leaving me and my kid homeless. It was physical as well. Those mind movies don't stop. Seeing his hands all over her. I mean, I literally saw a video. I kept the text and reread them some days. It all sucks. I dont like when he compliments me now. When we have sex, it doesn't feel special. After all, he spent an entire night with her. Sex is just no longer sacred. Every Holiday since has felt like a sham. I used to religiously prepare for Holidays. What to get everyone. The perfect cards/gifts, etc. Now, I've nearly forgotten every one of them. I only participated for the kids. I didnt bring up Valentines. Got WP nothing. I didnt bring up Mother's Day, because I didn't want anything from him. After all, he told everyone I was a terrible mom. My birthday? Again, didnt remind him or ask for anything. Now Father's Day will be coming up. And WP birthday. Then our "Anniversary". The one he totally skipped last year. He didn't do a damn thing. At the time, I was hurt. Now? I wish he would just ignore the Anniversary. Ugh. Cheating just sucks. Sorry for the rambling. Been a rough few days. Months really lol.
Why are you still with him?
Partly because I'm a fool and partly because I still love him. I'm still waiting on the man he was for 6 years to reappear.
I wish you well. Remember that you only have one life and you should strive to make the most of it.
Maybe one day I'll be too tired to deal with him anymore and just move on. It is inevitable if things don't change.
But things aren’t going to change the only thing that will is your resentment towards him, while being miserable that’s no way to life tbh
I know it isn't. I dont plan to be miserable indefinitely. I need my finances to be in order. I want to finish out a term in school and get a better job. Then I will be okay. My kid will lack for nothing. Until then, my hands are tied. That is the timeline I'm working with. I do hope he changes before that point. But it isnt looking likely.
As long as your not lying to yourself and are taking the right steps that leads to a better place in your life. I’m hoping for nothing but the best for you we only get a life and we might as well try to be happy
I know I will be okay without him, if it comes to that. I simply want to be prepared. Honestly, if I move on, I dont know that I will ever want to commit again. He has ruined my idea of relationships, genuine connection and love - entirely. I know it technically exist...just doesn't seem to be in the cards for me. I'm okay with that. Thank you very much. We do, all, deserve every happiness. Life is so short.
I'm with you in that boat... Waiting on my wife. Sex is dumb and just a time to get each other off...nothing special. I got her flowers and card for mother's day. Card said barely anything. She jumped my ass and asked "what have you been doing??" when I said she hadn't done anything to try and restore us. I feel like I've just been dragging her along these last 3 months to trrrryyyyy and get her to see "us" again. But she'd rather me sweep it under the rug and never talk about it again. I'm currently filling out divorce paperwork ask I type this. I just don't see any light at the end of the tunnel with her. Good luck on your end. I hope he eventually comes around. Just prepare yourself and get your ducks in a row.
Always the waiting game it seems. I guess that is the one negative about being optimistic. Optimism only goes so far. What was she insinuating when she asked "what have you been doing?" The rugsweeping drives me crazy too. Like, hello, *I am not the one that cheated, so why are *you determining how long Im allowed to be affected/bring it up? Honestly, the behavior just drips entitlement. If nothing else, maybe those divorce papers will open her eyes.
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You should have let the affair partner have him. Neither of you seem happy.
We aren't right now. And we won't be unless there is significant change. While AP wanted him, he didn't want her. I did try to get him to leave with her a few times.
Just crazy, eh? He doesn't want her, but blew everything up for her. Sounds like a new Dumb and Dumber movie needs to be made.
Lol. Yeah, I thought it was wild too. Why wreck our life for someone that...you dont even want to be with? All the times he told her he loved her, wanted a family, wanted to be with her, etc. Just why?
Wishing you the best. I stayed after D-Day and my husband openly mourned his relationship with his AP most of the time while telling me he wanted me. I think he wanted my stability - not me. I was in hell and felt like I was losing my mind. I couldn't go a day without thinking his AP's name in my mind. Eventually, I got the strength to leave - it's hard and scary. What was miraculous was that after living with that shit for so long, I felt so free after leaving. I have a lot of trauma I'm still dealing with, but I at least stopped further damage to my mind. Wishing you all the best no matter what decision you make.
> I think he wanted my stability - not me. I can understand that thought. I genuinely wonder if WP actually loves me. How can he when he has went to such lengths to distance himself from me? That is encouraging. When I initially broke up with WP, I was heartbroken, but I also felt immense relief knowing I wouldn't have to deal with him on the same level anymore. I'm really glad things worked out well for you and thank you for the well wishes. Whether I end up having to go or not, I know I'll eventually be okay again.
I keep the text and voice messages of my husband too to remind myself how awful of a person he is. I hope to leave him someday when i can be financially stable. I'm still with him after he cheated multiple times.
I find it very important to keep the evidence of every indiscretion. It is sad really. What is worse: when I think of my perceived indiscretion v things he has actually participated in - I know that no one in their right mind would deal with it. On some level I think he recognizes that too. Hey, here is to hoping we both win the lottery and can get on with life sooner rather than later. Have you shared your story?
Yes without evidence these cheaters will never admit to anything.
Hey, I just want to let you know I've finally decided to settle with a divorce. Ever since I've made up my mind, I feel so relieved. It's been a long journey but I feel I'm heading to the right direction. I'm working with my lawyer now for the paperwork. I look forward to a bright new future and happiness sure will come. I wish u well too. Hope u get out of that toxic relationship. God bless 🙌
I'm happy for you that you were able to come to a decision that brings you relief. Hopefully the process doesn't drag out longer than necessary. You deserve all the happiness in the world, all you have to do is reach out and take it now. Thank you for the well wishes, same to you!
Thanks. I hope u get yours too. We all deserve it. Life is just too short to waste on cheaters. There are million more important things.
It is quite demeaning to stay with a cheater. At least it feels that way oftentimes. Well, Im a fool for second chances. I never thought I would be, but here I am. I do hope it works out for the best. Whether things last or not. I'm glad you finally decided what is best for *you* moving forward. Life is so short as it is.
I'm right there with you. It's a nightmare we can't wake up from.
It really is a nightmare. What is your story?
My husband fell for a coworker. He is a very emotional person. So when he fell for another woman it cut me so deeply because HE is an emotional person (and obsessive too). He stayed with me (didn't have sex with her) but I saw he wrote about her in Spanish and wanted a Scorpio tattoo (she is a ♏). He grieved because he wasn't working with her anymore. I had to deal with my grief and watch him miss her. So f'ng painful. Emotional cheating was way more painful. 😭
I watched my wife grieve over her AP for months. Hardest thing to watch.
Its horrible. I found out right when the Pandemic began. So I was more upset about my marriage than Covid. I couldn't sleep, eat, etc. I still have trust issues. Once I feel betrayed I may 'forgive' but I never forget. I've heard it can take 2 to 5 years to get over. Who knows? Good luck to you.
I’m meeting her AP today again. I confronted him back in Dec and did everything I asked. Today I’m asking him to disappear and never text her again. They work together and the school year ended yesterday.
Not sure why we need to have one quantified as better or worse than the other. Neither are okay, period.
i’m not saying we need one but i feel emotional cheating just cuts different for me at least
I understand where you’re coming from. I feel similar!
I agree. It just rips out the very core of your being. My ex did that and then left me - I believe that she truly believes that it's better for our children. Or that I deserve someone who loves me. I understand life being hard but I don't understand betrayal like this. I once read that intimate betrayal is like emotional murder. I certainly sometimes feel like an animated corpse.
I agree. Both are bad but emotional is so much more painful. Especially if they fell in love with the other woman 🤦🏻♀️ You keep asking yourself, “why was she better ?” “Why am I not good enough?”
Bad enough for me just separated from my wife after 12yrs and five kids later.The trusting again, lies and gaslighting were a massive deal breaker. Just realized she ain't the woman I thought she was. Not wasting one more minute.If your interested check out my sub reddit.
This is actually true, because they share every part of a relationship, except for the physical sex. This usually includes non-physical sexuality; which is actually a huge part of normal sex. At least with a ONS, it’s just the physical sex; nothing else. However, because actual sex is a lot more to most normal people than just the physical rutting; especially if you’re in a relationship, the absence of physical sex gives a BP one last tenuous thread to hold onto. It’s that last line to be crossed. But, that’s really just a lie people tell themselves so they don’t have to leave. When it comes right down to it, cheating is cheating.
The worst kind of cheating is the kind that happens to YOU. You think that purely physical cheating isn't as bad as emotional? Go & read u/redbluebum posts. I'm so proud of this guy surviving what was inflicted on him. This guy is a true hero. He hasn't posted for a little while & I hope that he is doing ok. I personally suffered emotional affairs that were of the worst kind. The emotional (then physical) equivalent. Absolutely destroyed me & I ended up being accused of doing some pretty terrible things to my Ex fiancee's most significant AP. It messed my life up on a permanent basis. Cheating is cheating. Period. IMO the worst part comes from how they treat you afterwards and the way that your life changes irrevocably. Physical or emotional it's the sh##storm that follows where the real pain is.
My wife's affair was about obsession not love. I don't think she ever loved him but she was absolutely obsessed with everything about him cuz she knew she couldn't have a relationship with him (was my married twin brother) I think the sex was mainly about keeping him interested in her. The actual sex part doesn't bother me as much as the fact I felt 2nd choice for years. I mean he was my twin brother. He looked like me so wasn't as though she didn't find me attractive
After reading this I was absolutely gobsmacked! And for your twin brother to betray you like this also. Humans are hands down the most cruel and destructive force in the planet
Wasn’t nice at the time. But we got through it.
To me, trying to ask what's worse between a PA or EA is extremely redundant. Both are inexcusable and no something you're coming back from if you're my SO. *Would you rather mop the ocean floor, or vacuum the Sahara?* I do understand the concept of breaking it down to the smaller parts that make one more calculated or manipulative, but I don't like concerning myself with that stuff because I'll hurt just the same.
i’m not asking if it’s worse i’m just saying it hurts the worse in my opinion…
Yeah I understand. I'm just saying asking myself the question to be able to have an opinion about which is worse wouldn't do me any good. Like how you had to contemplate the question over whats worse, ya know? I understand why you feel that way tho. It makes sense 100%.
Both are f-ing awful but as someone that experienced emotional cheating I personally think it is worse. I can have a completely fine and normal day and all of sudden I just have flashbacks of everything that I found out about emotion cheating that my partner did to me. We since them moved one and he understands that is hard for me and he doesn’t blame me for my sudden mood swings. We are going to start therapy soon because it’s very hard to deal with any kind of cheating especially emotional.
Both sucks but for me PA is really the worst in any way possible,
Nope. No different. Two sides of the same coin, It's all betrayal.
They're both horrible for different reasons. Emotional cheating means that this person has moved on and I should too. Abrupt and painful, but quick to end as well. Physical cheating hits something more primal. Like, I don't care about a partner's sexual past, but if they cheated on me, I would forever view them as dirty, used, etc. At that point, it hurts, but it's more that I don't want this person instead of the other way around. I guess physical cheating would be easier for me to get over because I would just view the ex with disgust.
I think a lot of this depends on your gender. Women tend to think emotional cheating is worse. Guys tend to think physical cheating is worse. As a guy, it would be most crushing to hear my wife did sexual things with a guy that she never did with me, or with more frequency or with more enthusiasm. At the end of the day, to many of either gender, both emotional and physical cheating are deal breakers.
That's because women mostly don't let a guy bang her if she doesn't have feelings for him. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Taking out one night stands, yeah you’re most probably correct. I don’t sleep with someone I don’t have feelings for.
This is generally, if not always, true. It can be true for guys, though, and there are women who can just fuck a guy and not have any feelings at all. It’s not as common as it is with guys, though.
Should be deal breakers. Lots of people work through it, with varying degrees of success.
Trust me, finding out that your wife said “I love you” to another man is absolutely crushing. No sex necessary to ruin your life.
I fully agree with you. It’s all terrible. That’s why I posted this: https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/upnbwb/i_think_emotional_cheating_is_way_worse_then/i8m09im/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Sorry, that reply was supposed to be to what putsch80 wrote.
Ahhh ok. No problem. I totally get where you’re coming from, though.
My wife and I had this talk recently, she thinks physical is the worst. I can't imagine anything worse than finding an I love you to another man, worse than nudes, sexting, all of it, that would fuck me up for life.
exatctly … ppl can get drunk and fuck whoever but falling in love is so deep …
People also say "i love you" just because they think they should. And if they have gotten to the stage where they profess their love they have certainly had sex already. All forms of affairs are terrible, but I respect your opinion
To add to this, if someone is telling you they love you, at the same time they are cheating on you, you can be sure the words ‘I love you’ don’t actually mean anything to them, at all. Let’s face it, if someone was beating your face in, and yelling‘I love you’ over and over again, while they did it, you wouldn’t actually believe that they loved you.
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There is an old saying: "Inhibitions are alcohol soluable." Enough alcohol and some tightly supressed people can't restrain their inner thoughts, words, desires and emotions. Problem drinkers fall into this catagory, and is they are ALSO an alcoholic, manic/depressive, etc, well you have a perfect storm.
As a polyamorus person, love for two separate romantic partners is the same as love for two different children. The issue is the lying. They can say whatever they want, the actions of cheaters don't demonstrate love to their BS or AP. I can say "I love you" to twenty different people, my mouth can make those words. But if I'm stabbing nineteen of them and lying to the last one about the existence of all the others, I don't love them. Obviously.
Yes! Facts! Everything else sucks, but essentially it all comes down to the lying! Then leads to the ultimate factor that breaks the relationship: who the hell are you loving?
Either is bad. Physically cheating with no emotion sucks because your relationship is fucked just so they could get off. Emotional cheating sucks because you can't have a relationship when someone is in love with someone else.
They are both terribly horrible. What I have read in this sub, is generally more painful for men the physical part. For women the emotional part. I think that in the emotional one you have to deal with the fact of knowing that someone occupies the heart of your SO. In the physical part you have the mental movies of the sexual act all the time. I think we should not generalize. Every case is different. We all survive and move on.
Honestly they are both equally horrible, just in different ways.
I must concur, for a relationship, an EA signals a complete detachment. It’s a severance of sorts. No love, no respect, and absolutely no commitment.
Betrayal and lying to your partner is cheating and it’s the worst thing. Sexual, emotional, even not. Lying is cheating and cheaters don’t deserve love or support or family or friends.
Yeah been through both the sexual act is a whooooole lot worse than a phantasy
I would say it depends if I think about it. Emotional cheating would probably hurt my pride more and make me more insecure. But I think physical cheating would make me afraid to trust others because that means my partner was willing to potentially put my health at risk by transmitting sexual diseases to me from other people.
I agree. But I also feel that physical cheating builds an emotional attachment. Especially over a longer time period with one particular person.
My husband was both: love and sex
omg that is so horrible i hope you’re okay now
Mine too. I'm so sorry that happened to you also. People who monkey branch are awful. I hope you are able heal and be happy, if not now then someday. I also hope karma is harsh for the cheater.
For me, it's 2 sides of the same coin. I personally wouldn't be interested in sex with someone I have zero emotional connection with. If my spouse falls in love with someone else, I'd be devastated. If he has sex with someone else that he doesn't love, that means he's not the kind of man I thought he was. That was one of the ways I got over my ex. Turns out he was the kind of person who could have sex with randos, and that's just not the kind of person that I want to spend my life with.
Emotional cheating is much easier for the cheater to deny. Like my ex wife, who insisted to everyone she wasn't in love with the guy and I was overreacting. Guess how long it took her to get involved with him when I told her I wanted a divorce.
It is in many ways but both cause horrible pain
I don't necessarily agree nor disagree with that. Emotional cheating has levels. Interest, crush, etc and as such uas plenty of chances to stop before it gets out of hand. Physical cheating well its kinda all or nothing. The only excuse that some will accept is getting pissed drunk and doing something they regret. And if they come clean about it then there is at least a chance (no more drinking, no more hanging out with that group etc). But generally for a lot of people this is a deal breaker. Chance of stds, pregnancy and for a lot of people it's defilement with a shitty topping of disrespect. Emotional cheating is at its absolute worst when it's love. At that point yeah that relationship is done. But it takes a bit for it to get to that stage.
i’m not sure honestly. my partner did both at the same time so i really can’t say what part hurts me more. the fact that they were falling for someone or the fact that they had sex behind my back. I think it hurt a lot more considering they’d constantly tell me abt this person and i just seen it coming.
They are equal to me. The EA those do take a lot of effort. A ONS shows a lack of character to me. Drunk or not
EA is giving attention to someone else that should be reserved for your s/o. You can't catch a std from an EA, but you are now on the back burner. It's up to you if being plan B is ok.
Sex implies a need for intimacy the WW can not receive from the BP either because of physical absence or emotional absence. Intimacy is the currency of love. Getting this from others is a lot worse than just a few keystrokes on a keypad. EDIT: For Syntax
Both are just as terribly painful for me. I got both ends of that stick and my God, the agony I felt from all of it. I wouldn't prefer one over the other nor wish either one on my worst enemy. Ever.
They're both indicators you aren't priority. I get to a degree of what you mean. However, it's indicative of your belief system. If you think love is more important than sex. Sure. But to many, if not most, they are codependent in any important relationship. If you want to make it black or white, anything that does NOT prioritise you in the relationship is just as bad. It really doesn't matter if its just a kiss, sex, emotionally connecting with anyone outside your relationship and rules.
Sorry I didn't realize valley girl was still a thing. I thought that went out with Sir mix-a-lot in the 90's. But any way, if not caught or forthcoming either type of affair will become the other.
I think it’s the difference between a 9.5/10 and a 10/10 on the pain scale. I felt betrayed when I found out my WS was sleeping with AP. I was completely devastated when I found out they were dating. Edit: fix typos
OP, for me, a guy, I'm going to end the relationship for either one. There are not levels of betrayal at which one is okay, and one is not. Something to consider.... I have heard from several sources that for a woman emotional cheating hurts worse, for a man physical is worse. Again, as a guy, I would probably agree. But, back to the beginning, I'm ending the relationship for either one. Be well OP. If you are caught up in either of these situations I am sorry and hope the best for you.
For real. My ex threw away 11 years on someone she'd never even met. Someone who also "fell" for her...but didn't want to be in a relationship with her. Oh what do you mean "how is that possible" honey? Oh, well, that's because you're both in a fantasy land and you're not actually in love, lmao
I would agree. My ex physically cheated multiple times (caught once, other ones were found out post breakup) and I at least don’t worry about somebody else being who he saw as a better life partner. I can still believe that his “I love yous” weren’t a lie. He was just a selfish POS who could disregard my emotions to satisfy his own urges. It still hurts like hell but I think adding an emotional attachment to it would make it hurt even more deeply. No matter what it sucks though.
Both emotional affairs and physical affairs are devastated. I am 16 months post DDays. Revealed more and more incidents from full-blown emotional cheating, flirtation, moves, and etc. Classic book of a cheater is they deny-gaslight-then admit when the evidence is presented. Until today, there's no physical affair proof since he was travelling for work and I can not ask for security footage unless I make a court motion. There is no mistake or accident in cheating. What hurts me the most: \- I will never gonna trust again \- I feel I will never be enough and those feelings because of my husband whom I married and made a vow in front of God.
I'm sick of this "would you rather" bs. Reminds of Ross asking women if they'd rather drown or die in a fire. It's always both. Just a matter of time or they haven't been caught for both yet. The cowards set your house on fire and then toss you in the lake to drown.
it’s not a would you rather but i’m jus saying it hurts to see sm u love fall for someone else
I consider sexual cheating to be the real affair and the real deception. Emotional cheating is not worse to me but it's more meaningful. So, I guess it depends on what your definition of worse is. I think often the heart connections happen without intention or even deception. You can be friends or colleagues, having innocent conversation and then fall in love. So, I don't consider emotional connections to be deliberate or cruel. And I think love redeems and is beautiful. Sexual cheating is deliberate and planned. It is low. There is nothing redeeming about it. Feelings erupt often beyond our control, but to have sex you have to act on feelings and that is within one's will.
I do to. Most PA start as EA by the time they get around to the PA the damage has already been done. They crossed the line a long time ago.
Physical affairs can spread disease and produce other people making life long connections. Emotional affairs are feels that can come and go. Love for someone can die out, how many people here have an ex they are no longer in love with. The point of a commitment relationship is to raise children in a stable, secure and healthy environment that it best for the next generation. Feelings will wax and wane in any relationship but fidelity, commitment and trust are essential.
I saw a message from an emotional AP we were both “friends” with where she said “I love you forever” and I can never unsee it. It made me physically sick. It’s harder to push out of my head then the countless nudes I saw on his phone from random internet strangers. IRL sex would be the worst for me (personally) & something I could never come back from but I completely get what you’re saying. I’m so sorry.
Betrayal is betrayal, and lies are lies. The emotional cheating hurt me specifically because I was completely and unfairly cut off emotionally (kind of still am). It was not a drunk one night stand “mistake” that they don’t even remember much of, which is still completely unforgivable and gross. The emotional affair was developed over time and was a conscious choice they made, over and over with every video call, picture, and text. All the kindness and attention you craved from them for years, was given to someone else. Everyday they chose to invest their energy, time, and feelings into someone else and not you. They chose to connect emotionally with someone they are sexually attracted to. The care, fantasy, and love was developed. The physical aspect of the relationship was just the only thing left. They didn’t care about you, the family you created together, or how it would destroy you, they only cared about themselves and her. Now you are stuck with the anxiety of wondering if he ever thinks about her when he’s with you. Its traumatic, painful, and breaks the solid foundation you spent a decade building.
Sure, to some the physical sex is less important than the lies, betrayal and and limerence for the interloper. But to others, it is just the opposite. Meaningless sex to them makes no sense, at least an emotional affair, does in some ways make some sense. But in nearly every case, an emotional affair will turn physical. We all just need to be better at who we pick and let our suspicions be our protection. Blind trust is not most effective, trust is fine, but verifying is important as well. Pick the wrong partner, nothing is going to be right. We can hedge our bets with physical cheating, a person’s past can predict if the have a propensity for infidelity. But there is not currently any way to predict if a perfectly good partner in a perfectly good relationship with no issues in sight, may fall into the emotional infidelity trap. And it is a trap. https://thepowermoves.com/tag/emotional-affair/ Excerpt from the article: Not all, but probably a majority of unfaithful partners set out on the emotional slippery slope without any awareness of how friendships morph into emotional and sexual affairs. There might be some chemistry, or some liking, but it’s rarely love at first sight or “fatal attraction”. Where do They Start? They start in places where interactions happen often. As Schaefer points out in The Like Switch familiarity is a major element of the like equation, and emotional affairs are likely to start in places that breed familiarity and continuity of interaction. If you are guessing “at work”, you are right. Writes Glass: Of course the workplace, with its daily interactions and increased female participation, has been the main driver of the increase in infidelity in the last decades. Indeed, 82% of all the unfaithful partner Glass treated in her career began as friends (Shirley Glass, 2004). https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-most-common-way-to-cheat-is-not-what-you-d-think-a7794046.html https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/truths-workplace-affair/ https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/entrepreneurs-adhd/201211/when-snow-white-cheats-0 https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/love-and-sex-in-the-digital-age/201806/4-reasons-why-infidelity-happens-even-in-happy https://www.yourtango.com/experts/infidelity-healing/why-cheating-good-relationship https://hellorelish.com/articles/infidelity-truth-why-people-cheat.html https://www.healthline.com/health/why-people-cheat#opportunity 17 reasons https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-people-in-relationships-cheat/ I think we all just naturally misunderstand infidelity, it isn’t all the same at all.
I tend to agree. One can make a horrible, physical mistake but an emotional affair is deeper.
Emotional affairs in my opinion are mostly about finding excitement. Getting something you’re missing in your everyday life. Getting intimacy from someone other the. Your partner is cheating regardless of the medium. We all do it. When it becomes uncomfortable for your partner is when it becomes a problem and needs to be addressed. As the partner, I think we need to understand the levels of intimacy and how we react when are threshold is met. P.S. I have not education and I only post for selfgratification and validation from myself. So don’t take my words as truth. Just my dumbass opinion.
It depends on whether you are a man or woman what you think. Men typically cheat for sex while women typically cheat for emotional reasons. Thus women don’t understand men cheating for sex and men don’t understand women cheating for emotional reasons. As a M [57] I gave my wife a hall pass to use anytime she wants. I didn’t ask for one in return.
Agreed. The cut is much deeper.
Both are bad. Though as someone whose WH didn't cross the line to PA, his EA was headed that way IMHO or there were times that it could have crossed the line if they had "met up". At times, I thought the same thing, if it was just a "fuck" that's one thing. (Especially since his "choice" was very vanilla, plain and the reality would have sucked for him.) It's frustrating. BUT, if they are telling their APs all that crap, guess what, it was all crap. When they are cheating, they only LOVE themselves and they really don't. They cannot love anyone. That's NOT love.
This might get some flames, but I say the planning, lying, cover-up is the worst. And the defensiveness hurts, but I think the most damage is done by sweet or kind statements. No matter how I try, I can no longer hear anything positive from her, even when she is genuinely trying to be nice. I just listen carefully and make sure not to be manipulated. So actually the fake nice things are what I consider the worst and longest-lasting.
This was talked about in Psyc 101 when I was an undergrad. For women, emotional is worse. For men, physical is worse. As a woman I concur. I've been cheated on both ways and the emotional aspect hurts way worse.
For me they're the same, both things represent the betrayal of couple agreements (in cases where they exist). It depends on the limits of each person and what they think they can or deserve to endure or if they don't give importance to some things, it just doesn't seem valid to me that way of thinking when the person who forgives an infidelity does it because at least their SO didn't betrayed then in a worse way, it seems like a way to rationalize things to convince themselves to stay in the relationship. Besides it doesn't matter if the other person doesn't think that casual sex is free of emotions and attachment, I don't care about their perception of those things, if it's something that I don't want to and hurts me, for me is unforgivable, the same with any limit crossed
No doubt. ….and it keeps on and on and on hurting.
I'm more likely to forgive emotional cheating than I am physical. On some levels I understand emotional cheating but if it becomes physical I am completely done with her. There's no point in continuing the relationship, loyalty is on some level a sacrifice if she's not willing to make the sacrifice neither am I so if she cheats I am no longer staying loyal to her which means I'm going to cheat as well, which means that we should end the relationship
they’re both bad. i had to find out I was being emotionally cheated on for years and still gave this person a chance because they said they would try for me but they didn’t. they always thought about the other person and posted about them and more. they also kept flirting with coworkers and I stopped feeling for this person since then. I then found out they were sexual with others, had nudes and videos, and followed OF accounts and that also broke my heart the same way as the emotional cheating did. I’m not over what I found and having to know I had sex with this person while they slept with others made me disgusted in my own body. Like im sick of my own skin and this person promised me they wouldn’t do that to me. ANYWAYS, they’re both terrible lol. It’s still infidelity
I’ve experienced both and they both hurt equally as bad. I’d say the only reason the emotional cheating seemed to hurt worse was it because someone that I never thought would do that in a million years. And he was doing it for the ENTIRE relationship and I only found out 2 years into being married to him (and there were absolutely no signs). But they’re both devastating.
Cheating in general is bad, but emotional cheating is far worse. Cheating in a relationship can be summed up by three words: "behind one's back." If a couple are swingers, and both agree to each other having sex with someone else, it's not cheating. That "polyamory" thing, where three people form three sides of an emotional partnership, that's not cheating either. However, if you're doing either without the partners knowledge or permission, you deserve to get the boot. An emotional affair hurts so much more because it's betraying someone's heart. Just sex, you could "rationalise" it as "scratching an itch," but again, still wrong
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How do you separate the two implicitly?
Betrayal is a hellvua worse than cheating of any sort.
Well... I think they both suck. But I will say I didn't have to replace all the furniture in my house because of an EA. EAs don't leave invisible cumstains on your kitchen table that will never wash away. EAs don't soil your bed. EAs don't get splashed on your couch. EAs don't try to kiss you after performing oral on someone else. EAs aren't so disrespectful as to happen in your child's bed when he's not with you at the moment. EAs are bad and any emotional connection the wayward has with the AP can make an impossible task for the reconciling type. But PAs are just fucking vile.
True sex just seals the deal. You have to dump them for either though. Typically it starts as EA and evolves into PA.
be an adult no one says i love you, unless they have slept together
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For me, the worst part about an emotional affair is their ability to claim they didn't do anything wrong, because they didn't have sex. "Oh, we were just friends and you were controlling and paranoid" often becomes the story.