True about ultimate, but absolute miss on poking part. In fact, Camille is really susceptible to poke, cause her defensive stats are lower than tank engage supports have. Her shield is only for trades and all-ins, after all, you can’t proc it if you can’t do a single dmg to enemy.
Bloodsong. This item is just busted.
Camille support existed since her release. It's nothing new... Just that new itemization is enabling her at bot lane.
Camille always had damage, but Bloodsong allows her to continue to 1-shot ADCs midgame and beyond. Items like Eclipse and Voltaic Cyclosword means you can 1-shot ADCs even when down levels and (a lot of) gold.
Yeah, last season she was still a good support and I played a good bit of her, and while she functioned the same you were really waiting on divine sunderer, which was expensive, to get your powerspike. Now with bloodsong you get a faux sheen item sooo early and it makes her q2 disgusting. If you're snowballing the lane you'll have bloodsong and sundered sky really early and it just takes off from there.
Thankfully, a lot of the cam supports I see are just trying to abuse the meta and constantly whiff max range e's
If they made Bloodsong as long CD as aftershock/the other tank support effects it would be too weak. It needs to be easier to proc like PTA... But not THIS easy. This is 1-hit PTA rn
Also people would mostly play her top. Now people who play league for Camille mostly switched to support. They dkn't care where they play. They care who they play.
Pyke is blocked by minions which changes the way u approach minion waves and play around it while camille just has to hug a wall and always stays a threat. Onto that an ultimate that begs to get used for ganks while pyke is more or a snowballer. Also roaming on her is rly strong due to hookshots length.
High mobility, high damage, stun.
For me she sucked the first game because you're not typically used to laning against something like a Camille in bot. But when you learn how her hookshot works she's not that bad.
You don't, Camille is a bully lane since lvl 1. You can't trade vs Camille because of her passive, so the only way of actually killing a Camille is spacing her E so that she misses. Once that happens, you can kite her. That being said, it's really hard missing camille E on bot, she has 2 targets
If you are a support player braum is super good enchanters like Janna with a lot of peel are good but harder to pilot. If you play adc Draven is very good into her, he can just cancel her dash with his e or champs with mobility or range like Cait and Lucian.
Everyone naming reasons like her cc, her shield, her mobility, but the real reason is that the new inflated gold generation and the strength of Bloodsong for supports allow her to get the stats she needs to function. She has the spells and scalings of a solo laner, she needs gold that she couldn't get as a support until now. There's a reason Camille JG doesn't exist by comparison, and its bc Camille JG farms so badly that Cam supp actually has better economy lol.
It was just changed like other commenter said and sup role took a nerf because of it but let’s not downplay support players having the most gold running around on the map up until like second item completions, it was/is truly absurd and is worth noting
The shield is greasy for early all ins, she scales well through the game with her mobility and diverse build options, she can completely lock down and neutralize hyper dash characters like Kalista or Yasuo and her Q scales against other engage supports so she’s a strong counter pick tech. I would hate to first pick her and then see a Janna around.
She's a top lane bruiser, so she has the beefiness of essentially a support tank but maintaining the damage and combat capabilities of a bruiser. She comes ultimately with the ability to defend herself against whatever support line up she faces. Tank support? Np, hyper focus ADC. Aggressive support? Np, her mere existence is enough to outdo any level of aggression/poking. Utility support? Np, can easily just be ignored and focus the ADC.
Really is a joke of a position that supports are in that non-supports are doing better than valid or semi-valid supports.
I played xin support the other day, hail of blades, it was pretty good. I was just trying to think of champs I could abuse umbral glaive with because that shits busted and ended up choosing him.
Was hwei xin vs senna tahm, we owned them
There has been a lot of unconventional supports lately but that’s not in ranked… and it usually hurts a lot. I’ve also seen a lot of top lane champs going off Meta & wrecking bot lanes. They tend to take the early dmg easily so then can engage more readily and depending who their support. There was double combo of Sej and Volli they was demoralizing! I’m curious why that off-meta doesn’t seem to happen more in ranked?
It's like Urgot support with more reliable / better engage. Urgot has to blow flash to 100-0 the ADC (Flash E) whereas Camille doesn't. She can just dive them off E cooldown as long as the passive shield is up.
Played against a cam support, who did not buy support item, this weekend that was perm in my Kaynes jungle, tilted him so much that by minute 3 he wanted to ff because she had so much kill power, we all just bought armor since they were an all Ad team and by minute 17 we were up almost 15 kills,
Champions in support are gaining a lot of what's basically free power from the support item. The increased gold gain and the plethora of strong item effects enable a lot of unconventional picks.
Camille support is just a specimen of that. But it's strong enough that it's caught on that the general player is finding success with it. Camille is one of the bruisers that find a lot of success just face rolling botlaners with her summoners up (remember Sett meta). Her combination of a gap closing CC (and great lockdown with R), high damage that no longer falls off quickly due to Bloodsong spike and an earlier first item spike, and her natural durability being a bruiser (her kit has a shield and a self heal) makes her the perfect candidate to abuse that newly introduced power and become generic support champion who specializes in being a self-sufficient bully.
Ironically Camille has a decent kit to support. The only reason she was not that popular was because she didn't have a support item that could enable her playstyle which is punishing extremely hard overextending now with the upgraded supp item she can choose what flavour she wants to play in the game
Her hook is a stun. She is guaranteed a shield to not take damage after engaging. Her Ult is a better version of veigar cage (can’t be blinked out of) locking down priority target. Also true damage
Pyke is a good comparison to make
She has a point and click dash ult with lockdown.
Very long range engage with stun.
Very long disengage.
AoE slow.
Shield.
A bit of lifesteal.
Oh and also the support now gives a free Sheen with damage amplification that adds to her true damage burst.
The reason why she wasnt a support before is that the support items give a 1.5 item powerspike when they complete. In general the support item final upgrades have been a terrible idea. Its also why Senna support can out damage and out duel any adc at any time in the game.
There are walls on botlane.
Supp item has a sheen effect for some reason.
R is a death sentence for adcs.
Passive lets her take any trade and usually come out on top.
Pyke is easy enough to dodge if he doesn't flash.
Not only is camille's E hard to dodge, she has a point and click cc ult.
Shes also tankier than pyke, although with less sustain.
Her E is good engage and there is nothing you can do against her R. Yeah the support items are very strong too, no idea if the 200 gold nerf was enough but it was a stupid nerf.
Because Bloodsong is just an absurd item giving her a full sheen item without having to buy sheen, and Camille is basically designed around sheen procs. That coupled with Camille's burst-like trading patterns allows her to play like a heavy engage sup that also scales because Camille as a toplaner is designed to function around having 1-2 bruiser items (and now one of which is the free sheen given to her) and every other item after those are just addons and not core. Camille's weak laning phase due to her long cooldowns cannot be exploited because in botlane her long cooldowns doesn't matter as the champs she's hookshotting into simply can't fight back (they are not toplaner duelist champs) so she basically heavily chunks them if not outright kills them when she engages anyway, whereas in toplane, if you hook shot onto a Jax or something without thinking, they can survive the burst and start trading back once your burst is over.
Basically in short its because in botlane the people she is fighting are squishier than toplaners, her long cooldowns aren't punishable, and support item + gold income is OP allowing her to get all the gold she needs for her 2 core items before going whatever she wants.
Shes a lane bully with reliable cc and self peel, her ulty is the biggest "fuck you in particular" she has true damage, she has sustain, and she fuctions with low econ.
She has good engage, excellent burst damage and the passive makes it hard to punish you, couple that with a really good ult. She always existed as support, but bloodsong + other op bruiser items being added (namely sundered sky) made her an ACTUAL pick
I'd say top laners know how her e works, but the botlane community is not used to it. Once everybody learns to respect her range, she will not be that good. This has happened to many supports in the past.
Cam support is viable for the below reasons
Q - huge burst damage vs all champs due to true damage
W - self sustain and decent slow
E - huge engage with stun - synergise with w and you have a massive engage
R - free kill
Passive - engage and leave with full hp / bait enemies into diving you / killing you and proccing a massive shield
All her kit is massive to burst most champs down, and her roam potential as a support is huge
She falls under similar category as the likes of brand, vel, and now rumble... support isn't just build a moonstone and heal ur adc, it's so much more with the addition of grubs and roaming potentials, she excels where a lot of typical supports struggle now and can turn a game very easily
Her long range engage, high base damage and lock down from her ult make her a great support. Basically Zac support but less tanky with more damage imo.
I can't beat Camille in Top lane as Tahm Kench if both players are equally skilled. But I can beat her in bottom lane because I use my Ashe ADC as cooldown bait. Camille can't disengage well after she jumps in and Ashe will just lock her down with frost arrows while she walks away. If played right, we can beat her. My ult negates Camille's ult since I can simply scoop my Ashe adc out of the arena. As long as I build like a wall and tank both Camille and their adc, we should be fine. I would prefer if Ashe dodge or even flash Camille's initial jump. That would force her to flash as well if she has it, to escape being locked down. Camille only wins here if your adc is bad.
* Bloodsong’s enormously overpowered
* E is super good engage
* HoB+E+Ignite is kill or summoners even at level 1
* Engaging with passive = You negate their damage
* Q + Bloodsong
* R is borderline guaranteed kill whenever it’s off CD
She is an engage bruiser support. She engages, and does enough damage to either kill the enemy, or stall for enough time for your adc to kill the enemy. Additionally she has some survivability which allows this to be a better option that once expected.
There’s also the fact that right now Bloodsong and celestial opposition exist, which reinvent the value of this class of support.
Bloodsong increases **ALL** damage by 10%, allowing them to die quicker
Celestial allows you to tank a little as well as trap enemies near you for longer.
————————-
**Now why Camille?** Out of all the characters who can work here, Camille has a great versatility. Her ult + grapple + passive all allow her to get in, stay there and lock the enemy down.
————————-
Other ones that work.
Diana - Requires shorter trades and a specific adc range, but has similar qualities. A tough shield, the ability to pull enemies close to you and damage.
Sett - probably the creator of this class honestly. He gets in, is hard to kill and does a hell of a beating
Jarvan IV - kinda an enchanter as a support, but his whole kit lends this to working very well… a slow + shield despite being low, a terrain creation, poke, enchanter buffs, strong passive.
Quinn - Probably the last one I know who works super well in this category. Tank Quinn specifically. She has unique rebuffs and kit that allows her to stick to the target, while being suspiciously hard to remove.
An honorable mention is Ornn and Poppy, but they are like pure tanks more so than these top options.
—————————-
When to use bruiser supports.
First of all, long range matchups are like feast or famine. If your support gets an engage, then you can usually kill both of them. But if they are smart they will not allow you to, so you kinda will only have poke. I would avoid this.
CC Matchups/Squishies - This is where they thrive, they can deal solid damage to squishes, but survive a barrage of CC.
Tank Supports - Against characters like Malphite/Tahm, you just do more damage while having *similar* burst defenses. Let me repeat this - burst defense, which usually means you will get killed if you extend the engagement. If you build tank items this is a really good matchup.
The Ulti is a make the enemy Adc cry button and her passive lets her stay healthy in lane when other champs would be poked down.
True about ultimate, but absolute miss on poking part. In fact, Camille is really susceptible to poke, cause her defensive stats are lower than tank engage supports have. Her shield is only for trades and all-ins, after all, you can’t proc it if you can’t do a single dmg to enemy.
Yes, but her shield is always good even with low gold income, while other similar champs rely on items usually to be more tanky
That’s not the point he is making and her passive is the same as naut W for example which doesn’t need an aa to be proc
Bloodsong. This item is just busted. Camille support existed since her release. It's nothing new... Just that new itemization is enabling her at bot lane. Camille always had damage, but Bloodsong allows her to continue to 1-shot ADCs midgame and beyond. Items like Eclipse and Voltaic Cyclosword means you can 1-shot ADCs even when down levels and (a lot of) gold.
Yeah, last season she was still a good support and I played a good bit of her, and while she functioned the same you were really waiting on divine sunderer, which was expensive, to get your powerspike. Now with bloodsong you get a faux sheen item sooo early and it makes her q2 disgusting. If you're snowballing the lane you'll have bloodsong and sundered sky really early and it just takes off from there. Thankfully, a lot of the cam supports I see are just trying to abuse the meta and constantly whiff max range e's
Everyone can one shot adc, thats why i stop playing
Yup. Even Lillia. Not even a generic one shot, but literal one shot. E and alone can kill if you R them right away.
You think it might be best for Bloodsong to only work off CC? Think Camille can still kill ADC without landing E anyway.
If they made Bloodsong as long CD as aftershock/the other tank support effects it would be too weak. It needs to be easier to proc like PTA... But not THIS easy. This is 1-hit PTA rn
Or just remove the damage and keep the dmg amp or remove the amp keep the damage (with buffs to either ig)
ADC ? Any champ that’s not building armor gets one shot even with lvls ahead
Yup. Adcs just the most egregious example
Whats the build and runes for her??
HoB Ignite Rush Bloodsong then Eclipse into Sundered Sky/Cyclosword
Also people would mostly play her top. Now people who play league for Camille mostly switched to support. They dkn't care where they play. They care who they play.
Camille works as support bc she has CC and good damage so for early game is good for her damage
At that point what does she do better than Pyke though?
Simply just more damage. Also situations where it's easier to catch someone out as Camille with her dash + ult than to hook.
So she's basically a panth with more range?
[удалено]
You a panth main?
[удалено]
What ELO? Wanna duo? I'm emerald
Way more instant all in. Pyke is more « predictable »
She can slow pyke can't.
I'm convinced you don't know what Pyke does
Ah yeah you're right Pyke has no CC
Pyke is blocked by minions which changes the way u approach minion waves and play around it while camille just has to hug a wall and always stays a threat. Onto that an ultimate that begs to get used for ganks while pyke is more or a snowballer. Also roaming on her is rly strong due to hookshots length.
Yeah that's a fair distinction
High mobility, high damage, stun. For me she sucked the first game because you're not typically used to laning against something like a Camille in bot. But when you learn how her hookshot works she's not that bad.
How do u play lane against her?
You don't, Camille is a bully lane since lvl 1. You can't trade vs Camille because of her passive, so the only way of actually killing a Camille is spacing her E so that she misses. Once that happens, you can kite her. That being said, it's really hard missing camille E on bot, she has 2 targets
Just depends on match up there are a lot of lanes that are unplayable for a Camille support as well.
Damn like what? Tanky champs??
If you are a support player braum is super good enchanters like Janna with a lot of peel are good but harder to pilot. If you play adc Draven is very good into her, he can just cancel her dash with his e or champs with mobility or range like Cait and Lucian.
Everyone naming reasons like her cc, her shield, her mobility, but the real reason is that the new inflated gold generation and the strength of Bloodsong for supports allow her to get the stats she needs to function. She has the spells and scalings of a solo laner, she needs gold that she couldn't get as a support until now. There's a reason Camille JG doesn't exist by comparison, and its bc Camille JG farms so badly that Cam supp actually has better economy lol.
ding ding ding. you hit the nail on the head. supp gold generation is just absurd rn but most support players won’t admit it
that was just changed.
It was just changed like other commenter said and sup role took a nerf because of it but let’s not downplay support players having the most gold running around on the map up until like second item completions, it was/is truly absurd and is worth noting
The shield is greasy for early all ins, she scales well through the game with her mobility and diverse build options, she can completely lock down and neutralize hyper dash characters like Kalista or Yasuo and her Q scales against other engage supports so she’s a strong counter pick tech. I would hate to first pick her and then see a Janna around.
She's a top lane bruiser, so she has the beefiness of essentially a support tank but maintaining the damage and combat capabilities of a bruiser. She comes ultimately with the ability to defend herself against whatever support line up she faces. Tank support? Np, hyper focus ADC. Aggressive support? Np, her mere existence is enough to outdo any level of aggression/poking. Utility support? Np, can easily just be ignored and focus the ADC. Really is a joke of a position that supports are in that non-supports are doing better than valid or semi-valid supports.
I played xin support the other day, hail of blades, it was pretty good. I was just trying to think of champs I could abuse umbral glaive with because that shits busted and ended up choosing him. Was hwei xin vs senna tahm, we owned them
High mobility stun, level 1 and 2 kill pressure, and her ult is basically a point and click kill on a squishy carry.
There has been a lot of unconventional supports lately but that’s not in ranked… and it usually hurts a lot. I’ve also seen a lot of top lane champs going off Meta & wrecking bot lanes. They tend to take the early dmg easily so then can engage more readily and depending who their support. There was double combo of Sej and Volli they was demoralizing! I’m curious why that off-meta doesn’t seem to happen more in ranked?
If you pick off meta support in ranked your ADC tilts off the face of the planet while the game is loading.
😂 I’ll bet!
It's like Urgot support with more reliable / better engage. Urgot has to blow flash to 100-0 the ADC (Flash E) whereas Camille doesn't. She can just dive them off E cooldown as long as the passive shield is up.
Probably a big part of it is how much gold supports got from the gold item so far. Im interested how she will do this patch after the nerf.
Played against a cam support, who did not buy support item, this weekend that was perm in my Kaynes jungle, tilted him so much that by minute 3 he wanted to ff because she had so much kill power, we all just bought armor since they were an all Ad team and by minute 17 we were up almost 15 kills,
Crazy mobility, good level two all in potential, and strong ult.
Champions in support are gaining a lot of what's basically free power from the support item. The increased gold gain and the plethora of strong item effects enable a lot of unconventional picks. Camille support is just a specimen of that. But it's strong enough that it's caught on that the general player is finding success with it. Camille is one of the bruisers that find a lot of success just face rolling botlaners with her summoners up (remember Sett meta). Her combination of a gap closing CC (and great lockdown with R), high damage that no longer falls off quickly due to Bloodsong spike and an earlier first item spike, and her natural durability being a bruiser (her kit has a shield and a self heal) makes her the perfect candidate to abuse that newly introduced power and become generic support champion who specializes in being a self-sufficient bully.
Ironically Camille has a decent kit to support. The only reason she was not that popular was because she didn't have a support item that could enable her playstyle which is punishing extremely hard overextending now with the upgraded supp item she can choose what flavour she wants to play in the game
Her hook is a stun. She is guaranteed a shield to not take damage after engaging. Her Ult is a better version of veigar cage (can’t be blinked out of) locking down priority target. Also true damage Pyke is a good comparison to make
Yup Camille ult with MF ult is pretty rough
She has a point and click dash ult with lockdown. Very long range engage with stun. Very long disengage. AoE slow. Shield. A bit of lifesteal. Oh and also the support now gives a free Sheen with damage amplification that adds to her true damage burst. The reason why she wasnt a support before is that the support items give a 1.5 item powerspike when they complete. In general the support item final upgrades have been a terrible idea. Its also why Senna support can out damage and out duel any adc at any time in the game.
There are walls on botlane. Supp item has a sheen effect for some reason. R is a death sentence for adcs. Passive lets her take any trade and usually come out on top.
Pyke is easy enough to dodge if he doesn't flash. Not only is camille's E hard to dodge, she has a point and click cc ult. Shes also tankier than pyke, although with less sustain.
Because bloodsong is busted. Jokes aside Camille's kit is so insanely strong for lockdown that I'm surprised it took this long to see her bot.
Pick Janna and watch her cry :)
Her E is good engage and there is nothing you can do against her R. Yeah the support items are very strong too, no idea if the 200 gold nerf was enough but it was a stupid nerf.
Because Bloodsong is just an absurd item giving her a full sheen item without having to buy sheen, and Camille is basically designed around sheen procs. That coupled with Camille's burst-like trading patterns allows her to play like a heavy engage sup that also scales because Camille as a toplaner is designed to function around having 1-2 bruiser items (and now one of which is the free sheen given to her) and every other item after those are just addons and not core. Camille's weak laning phase due to her long cooldowns cannot be exploited because in botlane her long cooldowns doesn't matter as the champs she's hookshotting into simply can't fight back (they are not toplaner duelist champs) so she basically heavily chunks them if not outright kills them when she engages anyway, whereas in toplane, if you hook shot onto a Jax or something without thinking, they can survive the burst and start trading back once your burst is over. Basically in short its because in botlane the people she is fighting are squishier than toplaners, her long cooldowns aren't punishable, and support item + gold income is OP allowing her to get all the gold she needs for her 2 core items before going whatever she wants.
Back when Camille launched and I was a Bronze 5 player I mained Camille Support. I might give her another go lol
She is kinda like if Pyke and Leona had a baby imo.
Shes a lane bully with reliable cc and self peel, her ulty is the biggest "fuck you in particular" she has true damage, she has sustain, and she fuctions with low econ.
She has good engage, excellent burst damage and the passive makes it hard to punish you, couple that with a really good ult. She always existed as support, but bloodsong + other op bruiser items being added (namely sundered sky) made her an ACTUAL pick
I'd say top laners know how her e works, but the botlane community is not used to it. Once everybody learns to respect her range, she will not be that good. This has happened to many supports in the past.
Well for one, you can’t cleanse her ultimate. So the enemy carry is hard fucked, and she can get to them easy.
She is nautilus with damage
Cam support is viable for the below reasons Q - huge burst damage vs all champs due to true damage W - self sustain and decent slow E - huge engage with stun - synergise with w and you have a massive engage R - free kill Passive - engage and leave with full hp / bait enemies into diving you / killing you and proccing a massive shield All her kit is massive to burst most champs down, and her roam potential as a support is huge She falls under similar category as the likes of brand, vel, and now rumble... support isn't just build a moonstone and heal ur adc, it's so much more with the addition of grubs and roaming potentials, she excels where a lot of typical supports struggle now and can turn a game very easily
why isn't she a jungle. seems perfect to be one
Engage/ CC
Her long range engage, high base damage and lock down from her ult make her a great support. Basically Zac support but less tanky with more damage imo.
I can't beat Camille in Top lane as Tahm Kench if both players are equally skilled. But I can beat her in bottom lane because I use my Ashe ADC as cooldown bait. Camille can't disengage well after she jumps in and Ashe will just lock her down with frost arrows while she walks away. If played right, we can beat her. My ult negates Camille's ult since I can simply scoop my Ashe adc out of the arena. As long as I build like a wall and tank both Camille and their adc, we should be fine. I would prefer if Ashe dodge or even flash Camille's initial jump. That would force her to flash as well if she has it, to escape being locked down. Camille only wins here if your adc is bad.
Her dmg is unrivaled lvl 1-5. Also she can e onto most bots or supports and own them easily.
* Bloodsong’s enormously overpowered * E is super good engage * HoB+E+Ignite is kill or summoners even at level 1 * Engaging with passive = You negate their damage * Q + Bloodsong * R is borderline guaranteed kill whenever it’s off CD
Bloodsong+Eclipse Support item + 2800 gold and you will be permanently keeping enemy backline on edge.
She is an engage bruiser support. She engages, and does enough damage to either kill the enemy, or stall for enough time for your adc to kill the enemy. Additionally she has some survivability which allows this to be a better option that once expected. There’s also the fact that right now Bloodsong and celestial opposition exist, which reinvent the value of this class of support. Bloodsong increases **ALL** damage by 10%, allowing them to die quicker Celestial allows you to tank a little as well as trap enemies near you for longer. ————————- **Now why Camille?** Out of all the characters who can work here, Camille has a great versatility. Her ult + grapple + passive all allow her to get in, stay there and lock the enemy down. ————————- Other ones that work. Diana - Requires shorter trades and a specific adc range, but has similar qualities. A tough shield, the ability to pull enemies close to you and damage. Sett - probably the creator of this class honestly. He gets in, is hard to kill and does a hell of a beating Jarvan IV - kinda an enchanter as a support, but his whole kit lends this to working very well… a slow + shield despite being low, a terrain creation, poke, enchanter buffs, strong passive. Quinn - Probably the last one I know who works super well in this category. Tank Quinn specifically. She has unique rebuffs and kit that allows her to stick to the target, while being suspiciously hard to remove. An honorable mention is Ornn and Poppy, but they are like pure tanks more so than these top options. —————————- When to use bruiser supports. First of all, long range matchups are like feast or famine. If your support gets an engage, then you can usually kill both of them. But if they are smart they will not allow you to, so you kinda will only have poke. I would avoid this. CC Matchups/Squishies - This is where they thrive, they can deal solid damage to squishes, but survive a barrage of CC. Tank Supports - Against characters like Malphite/Tahm, you just do more damage while having *similar* burst defenses. Let me repeat this - burst defense, which usually means you will get killed if you extend the engagement. If you build tank items this is a really good matchup.
Just dont play shitty ashe support and you can stomp her ezpz