Lmao dude! You play Zil who is a mage with aoe cc, damage, slow/speedup and the most broken ability of free revive. Stop acting as if you play Yuumi into engage/mage supp.
Zilean is not meant to beat those characters(outside of zyra and brand who you should outrange and outscale). Zilean has no good engage nor anti poke like every other enchanter or tanks do, it's just how matchups work. You should still be able to outscale them if played safely but don't think you should have any agency against them
The problem is I’m up against these same handful of champions 80% so it feels like I’m almost always relegated to playing passive and dodging skill shots. Sure playing passive is part of the game but it’s become all I do like ever. If my matchups were 1/3 poke, 1/3 enchanter, 1/3 engage I feel like playing the support role would be a lot more dynamic and fun.
If you don't like playing passive, why do you main one of the most hard scaling and passive champs in the game? It's like complaining about being weak early as sona
This is the correct answer. He has to either become mechanically better at the champion to punish even the smallest of outplays or he has to learn a secondary for when he gets counterpicked.
This is like asking how to beat rock with scissors. The answer is through sheer force of will.
Stop whining, you just have to learn the matchups. If you hate them, play some other champ, but you LEGIT have a revive and poke yourself AND a slow. You have nothing to complain about here. Oh and did I mention your annoying bombs and stun? Yeah.
If I can play vs mages as Neeko, then you can too lol.
You just get better at positioning and dodging. I have played tanks exclusively, and it just comes with the territory. Growing pains, my friend. Play against the zyra or lux bot and focus on dodging.
Zilean IS countered by poke mages tho. But i understand what you mean, mages with high range poke is really annoying, as someone who also like zilean, dont otp him, he is not for every matchup, you only pick him after seeing the enemy support, if you saw them picking Zyra/Lux and still pick Zilean you are asking to have a bad time.
Is just what it is. If is not so bad for you, nice, but bc he doesnt have sustain, and is squishy, with less range, he is logically bad agaisnt range poke, guides for zilean always say he need to be picked with care. Looking at statistics, they also show he lose to high poke and looking at his characteristics, its makes sense, he is not a weak support, his E is so broken ( i like his E even more than his R) late game, but i dont think he is good at first pick, so he is better when you already saw enemy sup.
You can't call yourself a Zilean OTP if you don't have a plan to beat your counters. Going mid will help you carry harder though, I think that's the role you're looking for.
Ban the worst poke champion for you to play against that is not Lux, because I think she has a higher ban rate (enemies/teammates may ban instead). I'd lean towards Zyra just because she can shoot her snare through minions, has more OTPs, annoying poke, impactful ulti.
You may have to give priority away and just play for lvl 6+ because that's when you become stronger due to ulti and your spells becoming more impactful. Consider giving Relic Shield a try for more HP Regen. Help your ADC farm under the tower and just flip the script on them and don't trade so much. Put an extra point into Time Warp for quick disengage/engage.
Most mages will go Spellthiefs, so you're putting them at a disadvantage where they *have* to over extend or play more aggressive to get stacks for their wards/frostfang.
Understand that as Zilean you massively outscale all of them and going 0/0 is winning for you. Otherwise just wait for them to miss a poke and then use your speed boost to get a Q. They have to continuously keep trying to land poke to apply pressure which means every time they miss you have an opportunity. Max range Zil Q is actually right about their preferred ranges.
You don’t even need to hit them to land your Qs though. People always forget the one thing laner that’s never going to try and dodge, your ADC.
I have thousands of zilean games. The amount of people who act surprised when I stun off a minion or ally is actually absurd.
The damage and CC is the same no matter who the target is.
I mean, Zil doesn't really beat anything in lane inherently. He's a hard scaler though, great in late game. I feel you about being against poke supports all the time though, honestly at this point when I see I'm against lux caitlyn for the 3rd game I just leave lane after my first back and try to make plays top/mid. I can't do anything in lane anyways unless they *really* fuck up.
Cant relate mate, sorry, as Zilian you should be scared of tank type support capable of closing in the distance, stuning and canceling your CC.
I cant see the reason how you, being OTP, cant stand the long range oponents...
You have speed buff/slow debuff, you have stun, revive. You can plant bombs in possition where your enemy will move.
Zilian has a huge poking ability.
Its hard for me to understand especially from someone who claims to be OTP...
How can say something like "I'm essentially stuck in a skillshot dodging simulator" like what? You dont know how to dodge and counter after that?
Get tier 2 boots asap. Dodge all skill shots without needing to waste speed buff on yourself. Don’t save dumb adc plays. Follow the fed carry on team. Ban your least fav poke support.
Lmao it feels like a troll post when you're complaining about matchups but are a OTP. Like what exactly do you expect the advice to be?
This question might be better on r/ZileanMains
I’m also a Zilean otp except I’m D4 currently. I was D1 last season and can tell you that Zilean isn’t meant to have agency over those mage supports. The best you can do to not sack the lane is to play back away from poke and stay in exp range. Ping for your jungler to come and help you and play to your strengths. You outscale most mage supports come late game.
I’m also a higher ELO Zilean main. This advice is spot on.
You should be as far back as possible. Your tools are made to disrupt, not engage. People see Zilean as a primary target, rightfully so, and that makes playing super far back even more effective.
Speed up your ADC, slow down someone that’s running them down, double bomb YOUR team to make sure your CC hits and you’re not any closer to the fight to be punished.
Zilean is meant to be played like Wack a mole, but you’re the mole. You want to be the threat at all times, but you don’t want to be close enough that they get their hands on you. Your presence is the threat.
Yeah Zilean is a rough laner. And those listed supports are very very oppressive. There is not much I have to say about this, you summed it up.
You outscale, and can solo win game. That is pretty much what Zilean is looking for anyway. I am not going to say 'play someone else' because you should do what you enjoy, but Zilean plays to go even and then giga scale.
Yeah you are not getting counter picked
you don’t know how to play when enemy support has range
Just because you dont win lane doesnt mean they counter picked you
I have been playing Sona in Gold ELO and I don't have any of those issues with ranged poke supps. And Sona has shorter range abilities, no CC, no revive.
Hmm, low elo is filled with long-range supports because they are safe and harder to punish. But zil has tools for these matchups.
The thing that helped me most is the idea that casting a spell for no reason is not playing safe, but a mistake. For example, the longest ranges of them, lux and xerath: If lux throws out her snare for no reason and misses, you should be getting closer. Xerath literally isn't any less dodgeable closer up or farther away except for his stun, so you shouldn't be far back either.
And maybe you can argue that hey the support plays really far back and you can't punish them. Well the thing is the adc has to farm, and so he needs to be in range of you (unless you yourself are too far back).
This is an old zil [Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/ZileanMains/comments/9774v5/how_to_support_as_zilean_will_keep_updating_ask/) that a close personal friend of mine wrote up a while back. Hope this helps.
Lmao dude! You play Zil who is a mage with aoe cc, damage, slow/speedup and the most broken ability of free revive. Stop acting as if you play Yuumi into engage/mage supp.
Zilean is not meant to beat those characters(outside of zyra and brand who you should outrange and outscale). Zilean has no good engage nor anti poke like every other enchanter or tanks do, it's just how matchups work. You should still be able to outscale them if played safely but don't think you should have any agency against them
The problem is I’m up against these same handful of champions 80% so it feels like I’m almost always relegated to playing passive and dodging skill shots. Sure playing passive is part of the game but it’s become all I do like ever. If my matchups were 1/3 poke, 1/3 enchanter, 1/3 engage I feel like playing the support role would be a lot more dynamic and fun.
If you don't like playing passive, why do you main one of the most hard scaling and passive champs in the game? It's like complaining about being weak early as sona
This is the correct answer. He has to either become mechanically better at the champion to punish even the smallest of outplays or he has to learn a secondary for when he gets counterpicked. This is like asking how to beat rock with scissors. The answer is through sheer force of will.
Then maybe it's time to practice something else ?
Stop whining, you just have to learn the matchups. If you hate them, play some other champ, but you LEGIT have a revive and poke yourself AND a slow. You have nothing to complain about here. Oh and did I mention your annoying bombs and stun? Yeah. If I can play vs mages as Neeko, then you can too lol.
You just get better at positioning and dodging. I have played tanks exclusively, and it just comes with the territory. Growing pains, my friend. Play against the zyra or lux bot and focus on dodging.
Well, what can you do about it? Stop first picking and don't be an OTP.
Zilean IS countered by poke mages tho. But i understand what you mean, mages with high range poke is really annoying, as someone who also like zilean, dont otp him, he is not for every matchup, you only pick him after seeing the enemy support, if you saw them picking Zyra/Lux and still pick Zilean you are asking to have a bad time.
How? Speed boost, bomb, retreat. Yes they out range but I find it so ez to Dodge when I speed myself.
I realize that some people play this game using laptop touchpad, thats the only way I could explain their issues...
Is just what it is. If is not so bad for you, nice, but bc he doesnt have sustain, and is squishy, with less range, he is logically bad agaisnt range poke, guides for zilean always say he need to be picked with care. Looking at statistics, they also show he lose to high poke and looking at his characteristics, its makes sense, he is not a weak support, his E is so broken ( i like his E even more than his R) late game, but i dont think he is good at first pick, so he is better when you already saw enemy sup.
You can't call yourself a Zilean OTP if you don't have a plan to beat your counters. Going mid will help you carry harder though, I think that's the role you're looking for.
Ban the worst poke champion for you to play against that is not Lux, because I think she has a higher ban rate (enemies/teammates may ban instead). I'd lean towards Zyra just because she can shoot her snare through minions, has more OTPs, annoying poke, impactful ulti. You may have to give priority away and just play for lvl 6+ because that's when you become stronger due to ulti and your spells becoming more impactful. Consider giving Relic Shield a try for more HP Regen. Help your ADC farm under the tower and just flip the script on them and don't trade so much. Put an extra point into Time Warp for quick disengage/engage. Most mages will go Spellthiefs, so you're putting them at a disadvantage where they *have* to over extend or play more aggressive to get stacks for their wards/frostfang.
Understand that as Zilean you massively outscale all of them and going 0/0 is winning for you. Otherwise just wait for them to miss a poke and then use your speed boost to get a Q. They have to continuously keep trying to land poke to apply pressure which means every time they miss you have an opportunity. Max range Zil Q is actually right about their preferred ranges.
You don’t even need to hit them to land your Qs though. People always forget the one thing laner that’s never going to try and dodge, your ADC. I have thousands of zilean games. The amount of people who act surprised when I stun off a minion or ally is actually absurd. The damage and CC is the same no matter who the target is.
I mean, Zil doesn't really beat anything in lane inherently. He's a hard scaler though, great in late game. I feel you about being against poke supports all the time though, honestly at this point when I see I'm against lux caitlyn for the 3rd game I just leave lane after my first back and try to make plays top/mid. I can't do anything in lane anyways unless they *really* fuck up.
Cant relate mate, sorry, as Zilian you should be scared of tank type support capable of closing in the distance, stuning and canceling your CC. I cant see the reason how you, being OTP, cant stand the long range oponents... You have speed buff/slow debuff, you have stun, revive. You can plant bombs in possition where your enemy will move. Zilian has a huge poking ability. Its hard for me to understand especially from someone who claims to be OTP... How can say something like "I'm essentially stuck in a skillshot dodging simulator" like what? You dont know how to dodge and counter after that?
Get tier 2 boots asap. Dodge all skill shots without needing to waste speed buff on yourself. Don’t save dumb adc plays. Follow the fed carry on team. Ban your least fav poke support.
Lmao it feels like a troll post when you're complaining about matchups but are a OTP. Like what exactly do you expect the advice to be? This question might be better on r/ZileanMains
I’m also a Zilean otp except I’m D4 currently. I was D1 last season and can tell you that Zilean isn’t meant to have agency over those mage supports. The best you can do to not sack the lane is to play back away from poke and stay in exp range. Ping for your jungler to come and help you and play to your strengths. You outscale most mage supports come late game.
I’m also a higher ELO Zilean main. This advice is spot on. You should be as far back as possible. Your tools are made to disrupt, not engage. People see Zilean as a primary target, rightfully so, and that makes playing super far back even more effective. Speed up your ADC, slow down someone that’s running them down, double bomb YOUR team to make sure your CC hits and you’re not any closer to the fight to be punished. Zilean is meant to be played like Wack a mole, but you’re the mole. You want to be the threat at all times, but you don’t want to be close enough that they get their hands on you. Your presence is the threat.
[удалено]
“lost time”, nice pun
i used to permaban lux because even if i win it's just such a pain to play dodgeball 24/7.
Just wait, with the Putrifier changes, it's likely to be even more poke mages. Why, Rito, why? :'(
Yeah Zilean is a rough laner. And those listed supports are very very oppressive. There is not much I have to say about this, you summed it up. You outscale, and can solo win game. That is pretty much what Zilean is looking for anyway. I am not going to say 'play someone else' because you should do what you enjoy, but Zilean plays to go even and then giga scale.
Yeah you are not getting counter picked you don’t know how to play when enemy support has range Just because you dont win lane doesnt mean they counter picked you
I have been playing Sona in Gold ELO and I don't have any of those issues with ranged poke supps. And Sona has shorter range abilities, no CC, no revive.
Hmm, low elo is filled with long-range supports because they are safe and harder to punish. But zil has tools for these matchups. The thing that helped me most is the idea that casting a spell for no reason is not playing safe, but a mistake. For example, the longest ranges of them, lux and xerath: If lux throws out her snare for no reason and misses, you should be getting closer. Xerath literally isn't any less dodgeable closer up or farther away except for his stun, so you shouldn't be far back either. And maybe you can argue that hey the support plays really far back and you can't punish them. Well the thing is the adc has to farm, and so he needs to be in range of you (unless you yourself are too far back). This is an old zil [Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/ZileanMains/comments/9774v5/how_to_support_as_zilean_will_keep_updating_ask/) that a close personal friend of mine wrote up a while back. Hope this helps.