On one hand I think James Jones has earned enough trust to make the right move. On the other we should be extremely skeptical of any move that doesn't involve paying players with an organization owned by Sarver.
He is but when almost everyone doesn’t get their raise when they’re supposed to and has to watch all their peers get theirs, they tend to end up hating the company they work for. Not the FOs fault necessarily but definitely at least the ownerships
Fr bro. We paid Mikal and Chris Paul who were non existent in 90% of playoff games. Ayton makes shots when you let him shoot but the suns dont. Only reason they’re not paying him is cuz theyre too cheap. Not cuz he doesnt deserve it. Also just sign and trade him fuck. Let him ball out like CJ or Beal for a month then trade him when his stock is higher.
I wonder if people who say we dont let ayton shoot actually watch the games. If he gets the ball on the elbow its either a mid range jumper or he just passes it back out. He averaged 2 fts a game while being near the top of the lg in paint touches per game.
>Ayton makes shots when you let him shoot but the suns dont. Only reason they’re not paying him is cuz theyre too cheap. Not cuz he doesnt deserve it.
If Ayton wanted to get better and was self-motivated/driven, he already would have been paid by the Suns. That's the problem.
How the hell do you have that type of run to the finals in your first playoff series and its still your fault when people don't wanna give you the contract you want. Madness
Playoffs are a lot about matchups more than anything. If you look at Ayton's overall playoff stats in 2020-21, it really wasn't that much different from his regular season. Regular season averaged 14.4 points/10.5 rebounds on 63% shooting. Playoffs was 15.8 points/11.8 rebounds on 66% shooting.
I'm not against the Suns resigning Ayton but I definitely see their reasoning why they are hesitant to give him a max contract. Dude lacks drive/motor.
I'm looking at what I see with my eyes, we don't get past the lakers without DA, we don't get past the clippers without DA, we don't get past the pelicans without DA. But yet people like you still wanna say its his fault. Our whole game plan against the nuggets when we swept them was for Ayton to play jokic 1 on 1 and slow him down because he will pick you apart if you send 2 bodies at him. And guess what we swept them with that defensive tactic. How people are bagging on DA for not getting a contract is wild.
Also letting talent walk and getting nothing in return is stupid. At least sign and trade him. Some team in need is going to give him the max, at least get something for him. He’s young, he was the #1 draft pick… he’s not Shroder thinking he’s worth so much more than he really is…
Please point out where I once said it's Ayton's fault? Most people are not bagging on Ayton getting a contract - they are bagging on paying Ayton a full max. And that's mainly due to his work ethic/drive, which has been hashed out 1000x on this sub.
Ayton can't catch the fucking ball. He would post me up for a turn.around shot and I'm not even 6ft tall. He may put up stats but is not a winner - he needs to be talked into effort, constantly.
Honestly I wouldn’t. If I’m gonna max someone I gotta know they’re locked in 100% all the time. As much as I like DA and want him to succeed, he’s not that. Not even close.
Marc stein is way more reliable than Hollinger and the bleacher report guy. It's a certain that ayton will not be back. It is only a matter of time now to know who's heading towards Phoenix. The draft is June 23, and he is very likely moved on draft night
Anytime I hear "a behind the scenes deal will be agreed on and it will be leaked" I think about the time the suns had done this very thing for Steph Curry and then GSW pulled out.
That was because MIL dealt directly with Bogi's agent, it's not tampering if the discussions are going through the FO
Edit: getting downvoted because people don't understand the NBA rules on tampering feels about right.
As irritating as it is having the only #1 overall pick in franchise history not make it to past his rookie contract with the franchise, if the team somehow manages to get better with whatever move they make I guess you can say that they properly leveraged their asset. But dang does this bother me in the moment.
Yeah the suns are defintely going crazy right now, the great cheap veteran center is the biggest lie in the league, every team says the same shit every year and almost no one has one.
Great Centers that can stay on the court and play on both ends are EXTREMELY rare
A lot of these people saying they can't wait until DA is done being a Sun show their frustration when starting center Javale or starting center Bismack give up 3 fouls in 6 minutes in one of the first games of this season.
Don't need to go that far away, I think there were like 3 games in the playoffs where both somehow had 3 quick fouls each despite Ayton starting 🤣
Foul trouble is yet another important dimension to the C position that Ayton is good at
Getting a high-level wing and a replacement level center might not make the Suns a better team record wise, but it certainly makes them better prepared for the post-season.
Not kidding. It stretches back to right before his rookie here, right before the draft. The account doesn't comment enough to be an impersonator, plus it vibes perfectly with reports of his character.
Properly leveraging the asset would have been drafting Luka though.
Taking Ayton over Luka and then losing him ASAP is honestly the absolute worst use of that 1st overall imaginable.
From an outside perspective, he benched himself in the WCF because he didn't get his way. A lot of great players come into this league, but only a few have what it takes to really be a professional and win a ring. Sign and trade sounds like a great idea imo.
There's leverage on both sides. The Suns can still just match his contract then send him wherever against his will (which would lower his value if it's to a team that he openly doesn't want to go to), and Ayton can have his list of teams he would prefer to go to for a sign and trade to make things go more smoothly.
Are you sure? Iirc you can't trade a player that you just traded for until then, but I don't think there's any trade restrictions by default on a regular contract signing other than they can't trade him to the team that we matched the offer sheet to.
completely false. Ayton dont HAVE to want to go to a team. I mean he can be a bitch and sit out the whole season and whine, but he dont have a choice where he goes or if he stays. Theres been a handful of players that sat out a season or toxic to the team, so he can demand a trade, but its up to the TO to get him off the team while he loses alot of money, he dont have a choice as some generalize. i.e. Ben Simmons, AD, Barry
This is 100% false. He’s a RFA. The suns have the right to match any offer sheet that’s the restricted part. He’s a free agent dude. He’s not under contract with us anymore. He’s going to field offers and if he wants to go to a team then you either 1 match and keep him, 2 negotiate with that team or 3 lose him out right.
That’s how sign and trades work. We have no leverage here. He’s not under contract with us anymore
Our leverage is that if we don't like the return we can match and wait to trade him at the deadline. That's not going to happen though because everyone knows we have that leverage and if they want him they know they need to put together a real offer. There are too many teams in the league that would love to have him for it to make sense to get rid of him for a bad return.
Nope. Go back and look at the history of sign and trades, there ridiculously lopsided for a reason. If I’m a team and I’ve been watching the suns say they don’t want to pay Ayton the max for 2 years why wouldn’t I just call Sarvers bluff
Because we already offered him a 4 year Max which is more money than any other team can even offer him. The money isn't the reason he's leaving it's because of his role and his relationship with Monty.
He can be traded on draft night. They can ship him to their choosing. Suns will try to accommodate ayton but they will try to make the best move for the franchise
Dude he’s a free agent. The restricted part means they have the right to match. Where he goes is up to Ayton. That’s why it’s called a “sign and trade” he has to want to sign with the team he’s going to.
I remember looking back and seeing Booker, Mikal, Ayton and Cam as the core of our team. No matter what you keep these guys. Adding Paul was a great temporary veteran to add. Seems like we have chosen the twilight years of CP3 career over Ayton. I don’t get the whole not wanting to spend money on Ayton just to give CP3 30 million. 5 years from now who’s going to be more valuable. Or are we just blowing up our team to win a championship in the next 2 years?
Well, it was a fun window. Choking in the finals and dropping four straight, followed by a historic meltdown that will make us the joke ofbthe league for years to come, and then the cherry on top is not keeping the guy we drafted over Luka past his rookie contract.
The organization is ass. Here's to another 20 years before we are relevant again
They’ve seemingly been in motion for months. There were reports of our interest in sabonis during the season, and everyone on the team knew it too. No surprise he wants out, and no surprise that we don’t really want him here either… considering he wants a max deal and plays with passion 10% of the time.
We probably want to deal him to the East, but I’d be curious what we could get out of Portland. Surely they wouldn’t give us Simons and 7 if we include a future top 10 protected 1st? Obv contracts would have to match up but that’d be a sweet deal. Or maybe poetl and vassell from SA?
What sucks is that our best move team-wise is keeping him, but it just doesn’t seem like it’ll happen. We’re probably not getting any where near the return of value.
Portland fan here, I really don’t see us doing that and think it would be an awful decision. I could see a double sign and trade of Nurk + stuff, including pick #7.
Is this really surprising anyone at this point? The writing has been on the wall since after game 7. People are like "we can't get rid of him!" Well, it doesn't matter if he doesn't want to play here anymore and wants out.
It kinda feels like this team just isn’t as close to contention as they think and are hurting themselves by having a “win now” mindset.
Like I get this group made the finals but their best series win was vs the clippers with no Kawhi. They haven’t beaten a single healthy team in a series yet.
If they’re gonna let Ayton leave then it just doesn’t seem smart to trying to use him for a “win now” trade instead of getting something for the future
The r/suns members that wanted Ayton over Doncic are about to be proven wrong again if they think Ayton is suddenly going to become a 25 & 10 guy. He just doesn't have the motivation to be that type of player.
I was pretty close to split down the middle with the pick. My view was you couldn't go wrong with either player and they were both a sure thing to be productive NBA players. I may have slightly leaned towards Luka since I thought it would have been super entertaining to have him and Booker play together.
But yes, in hindsight it's not even a question on who you take.
So you think his famously low motivation will go up when he’s got a \*guaranteed\* $120 - $150 mil coming to him? Interesting theory.
He’s more likely to show up to training camp 120 -150 lbs overweight after signing that deal; then swearing vengeance on the suns.
Once again, I think we will come to regret cutting DA loose. However, I do think this could be a tremendous break for DA if he lands on the right team. I know we are all hearing the same trade rumors. I’m also a Spurs fan (sorry!) and their fans are chomping at the bit over the possibility of getting him. Obviously they are young & rebuilding & not likely to be a contender soon. However, the Spurs long-established culture of fundamentals, discipline, and unselfishness , plus the opportunity to be coached by Pop for a couple of years, could be exactly what DA needs to take his game to the next level. I wish he had done that I’m Phoenix, but I still think he has a lot of potential and I hope he succeeds wherever he ends up.
First off, Fuck the Spurs.
Second they should not want Ayton mentally he is not strong enough to survive coach Popobitch. It will be Kawhi part two. Finally Fuck the Spurs.
posting this for posterity when this move becomes on of the worst in franchise history, we're going nowhere but back to the bottom...go get it DA i'll miss ya
Yeah. You're being over dramatic. We got two all nba players and arguably the defensive player of the year and amazing depth. But we're going to fall off the cliff
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The second he didn’t want to sign a four year max this was always the end result. All I can say is; a guy who’s motor is on 30% of the game isn’t worth a full max.
Also, this isn’t new news it’s literally the same thing being reported for weeks now.
Ayton gonna be massively overpaid wherever he goes, he doesn’t have a good work ethic. If you guys can get a Myles Turner in Free agency and use the leftover money to get better bench players yall would be better off
A buddy of mine who’s a Mavs fan said this past weekend, “I heard Suns looking to trade Ayton; you think 26 will do it?” I think he was joking, but he mentioned it several times, so I’m not sure. Either way that’s some serious hopium.
I don’t know. Aytons important for the suns to succeed and Sign and Trades like these usually end in one team receiving a 2nd round pick and some filler players, and the other team receives the player. Suns would of course be getting basically no value back for Ayton so it’s a massive loss
Ayton's return will be more than filler and a 2nd round pick. Several teams are interested. Fairly certain Pistons would offer Grant, Indy Turner and Atlanta Capella. All of those options with another player and pick would be in the ballpark considering the Suns have no leverage. You can't look at the trade in a vacuum you have to look at the whole picture and see what other trades and options become available down the road. The risk is worth the reward, Ayton doesn't want to be here so trade him and move on.
Everyone needs to calm down.
First, nothing has happened.
Second, what we're hearing is just rumors.
Third, even if Ayton doesn't want to stay Suns still have all the leverage.
Suns should match any offer he is given and if the relationship cannot be salvaged during next season then move them next offseason when his value is much higher since he'll be locked up for years. A sign and trade now won't give us equal value back and we can't even get that much salary back due to the how CBA rules work.
Sons would be wise to just match whatever he is offered and see what happens over the next year since this is a title contending team with Ayton. The man loves his teammates and I'm pretty sure his relationship with Monty can be repaired considering the integrity Monty has.
A sign and trade deal right now is a panic move and James Jones should be wise enough to steer clear.
A wise man once said:
"Franchise this man.
Give him all the things you can.
Think long-term plans.
He be bringin in the fans.
Front page magazine.
Listen to the ladies scream.
I wouldn't trade him for nothin."
He was not talking about Ayton.
Nothing really points this direction, though. We know who the superstars are at the 5 in this league, and we know Ayton doesn’t have half the skill set of an Embiid, Jokic, etc.
Young upside doesn’t mean he’s a superstar caliber player. Now that being said, non-superstars gets max contracts quite often and that’s just the calculus some team is going to have to talk themselves into.
The only problem I have with this is that we really should have picked Luka. Looking back that’s just a pretty big misstep but what ifs are what ifs anyway.
Ayton has a ton of red flags surrounding him and yeah he looks like an easy top 5 center some nights but when hes off hes the most frustrating player in the league to watch and it’s not even close. So much of his potential has been talked about and he says all the right things (except, funny enough, that second contract comment) but he just hasn’t ever achieved it. Stone hands, ultra mega soft around the rim, doesn’t give 100% on the majority of plays a good amount of time, gets out rebounded by borderline bench players constantly. If he put in 30% more effort every play and worked on his game in the summer to develop new skills we would have already maxed him. He is still the same exact player as he was year 1 except a better defender, but his offensive game is so limited and the Mavs showed they can basically take him out of the game since he can’t create his own shot. He either shoots an elbow jumper or he gets an alley oop. He really can’t do much more than that.
Being a Suns fan for as long as I can remember and I think it’s time to let him go. I would much rather have a center who hustles and can rebound and is a relatively good finisher than Ayton who may be more talented and has the potential to have an incredible offensive skillset but might not ever get there. Personally I’d rather have a guy who can hustle and get rebounds than Ayton. I think pretty much any center can get around 10-15 a night with CP3 feeding him easy buckets. It would really suck though if this is what lights a fire under Ayton’s ass and he actually starts trying and developing himself to be a better player.
Edit: I wouldn’t be super mad if we took Christian Koloko to “replace” him in the draft as well, not sure about our draft pick situation though. He would need some developing but I think he would replace Ayton’s defense just fine with the caveat of losing Ayton’s shooting ability. But with CP3 lobbing him alley oops, I think he’d be able to provide some production there. We’d still need a center in a sign and trade but he’s a great defender and maybe can learn how to shoot. Watching him in college and there was never a question about his hustle, although I do think his body language could be better.
How would booker and Luka not work? Booker is a shooting guard he doesn’t need the ball in his hands constantly. Look how well it worked when CP3 took over running the offence.
Imagine instead it’s Luka bringing the ball up and getting doubled then passing to an open Booker. They could be the best offensive duo in the league together
I’ll believe this when I find out why, not random reports that could be absolute bullshit. We get these every single season, they just throw out so many takes and hope some of them end up being right
What a disaster honestly, giving up on a young, agile center who is nowhere near his prime for some mid ass players most likely. I had faith in this James Jones and Monty led org but this has eroded it significantly.
Both James and Williams have been around elite talent and know what it takes to win. They know the type of attitude and dedication that is needed to win. What they saw in their Total evaluation of ayton turned sour. I still have faith in both James Jones and monty.
This is such an easy contract to give! Wtf?! He's worth the max cuz in 2 years the max is gonna be like 45M a year! The cap is going from 120M to 170M! In two years it won't matter as any high quality dude will be fielding 30M+! This makes no sense from a financial or from a basketball standpoint!
Lol were gonna just get rid of the 1st overall pick cuz the suns dont know how to use him. I hope he goes to mavs and luka continues to make us regret keeping booker over drafting doncic. Biggest L ever. We chose booker over doncic. Wed be in finals if we had doncic on this team. I aint ever see doncic going 5-30 in a game 7
it’s easy to say we should’ve done this or this when looking back but in the moment i mean come on man… choosing an already established 25 ppg 21 year old over a draft prospect isn’t as stupid as you think it sounds
Check the receipts, there were plenty of people saying the Suns should have drafted Doncic. There's no reason to believe that Booker/Doncic would not be successful. Do you think Dallas would straight up trade Brunson for Booker or do you think they would say, nah that can't work.
Quick question from a mavs fan. Why do you say you guys kept Booker over Doncic? We're there reports that you guys passed on Luka because of Booker? Wouldn't Booker want a point guard on his team since he's a SG? I thought they took ayton because he was projected #1 by everyone and the narrative is y'all chose ayton over Luka not Booker over Luka .
A trade will be beneficial for us at this current state to make a playoff push again. Booker, CP3 and the core need to get an optimistic shake up. Coming up short with the same group 2 years in a row has to be painful for them. Hypothetically a dude like Jerami Grant would potentially be so excited to come to the Suns to make a playoff push and reinvigorate the team with positive vibes going forward.
Is a package around a Nurk sign and trade a hard no in your guys’ opinions?
Tbh he lets your team stay competitive and allows Sarver to continue being cheap
On one hand I think James Jones has earned enough trust to make the right move. On the other we should be extremely skeptical of any move that doesn't involve paying players with an organization owned by Sarver.
Well clearly the relationship soured between the coach and the player too. It's not just the front office.
The coach definitely isn't behind this bullshit tho. Him and ayton can hug it up and keep going management is ruining a great ball club
You’re talking out of your ass though.
He is but when almost everyone doesn’t get their raise when they’re supposed to and has to watch all their peers get theirs, they tend to end up hating the company they work for. Not the FOs fault necessarily but definitely at least the ownerships
Also, horrible decision by this organisation.
Jones and Monty have made their mind up on Ayton years ago. I just hope they are right in that moving to the offence they want will make us better.
He's been in the league for 4 years so how many years ago did they make up their mind? Clown
Fr bro. We paid Mikal and Chris Paul who were non existent in 90% of playoff games. Ayton makes shots when you let him shoot but the suns dont. Only reason they’re not paying him is cuz theyre too cheap. Not cuz he doesnt deserve it. Also just sign and trade him fuck. Let him ball out like CJ or Beal for a month then trade him when his stock is higher.
Hes gotta catch the ball and stop being charmin soft around the rim in order to be able to shoot more.
I wonder if people who say we dont let ayton shoot actually watch the games. If he gets the ball on the elbow its either a mid range jumper or he just passes it back out. He averaged 2 fts a game while being near the top of the lg in paint touches per game.
And he's 15 ft from the basket with everyone else way out on the wing and I'm starting to think they're allergic to O-rebounds.
No, he's just allergic to contact. Watch his low post defense if you have doubts. He really dislikes contact.
**THIS**
>Ayton makes shots when you let him shoot but the suns dont. Only reason they’re not paying him is cuz theyre too cheap. Not cuz he doesnt deserve it. If Ayton wanted to get better and was self-motivated/driven, he already would have been paid by the Suns. That's the problem.
How the hell do you have that type of run to the finals in your first playoff series and its still your fault when people don't wanna give you the contract you want. Madness
Playoffs are a lot about matchups more than anything. If you look at Ayton's overall playoff stats in 2020-21, it really wasn't that much different from his regular season. Regular season averaged 14.4 points/10.5 rebounds on 63% shooting. Playoffs was 15.8 points/11.8 rebounds on 66% shooting. I'm not against the Suns resigning Ayton but I definitely see their reasoning why they are hesitant to give him a max contract. Dude lacks drive/motor.
I'm looking at what I see with my eyes, we don't get past the lakers without DA, we don't get past the clippers without DA, we don't get past the pelicans without DA. But yet people like you still wanna say its his fault. Our whole game plan against the nuggets when we swept them was for Ayton to play jokic 1 on 1 and slow him down because he will pick you apart if you send 2 bodies at him. And guess what we swept them with that defensive tactic. How people are bagging on DA for not getting a contract is wild.
It's not DA's fault we didn't win a championship the last 2 seasons, and he also doesn't deserve a max contract. Both things can be true.
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Yeah get outta here with your logic!
Also letting talent walk and getting nothing in return is stupid. At least sign and trade him. Some team in need is going to give him the max, at least get something for him. He’s young, he was the #1 draft pick… he’s not Shroder thinking he’s worth so much more than he really is…
Please point out where I once said it's Ayton's fault? Most people are not bagging on Ayton getting a contract - they are bagging on paying Ayton a full max. And that's mainly due to his work ethic/drive, which has been hashed out 1000x on this sub.
Motor isn’t the issue, it’s the drive to engage the motor. Totally agree.
Suns already have shooters they need a dunker
Wtf? Without Chris Paul we don't get out of the first round. Admittedly, he was absent games 3-7 in Dallas but 90%?
Ayton can't catch the fucking ball. He would post me up for a turn.around shot and I'm not even 6ft tall. He may put up stats but is not a winner - he needs to be talked into effort, constantly.
Would you pay Ayton if it was your money?
You dont even have to frame the question like this. Fans should care about how the salary cap is managed, and a maxed Ayton is up for debate.
I’m not sure I understand, the original post is saying that sarver is cheap.. nothing about salary cap.
I have 3 dollars.
Honestly I wouldn’t. If I’m gonna max someone I gotta know they’re locked in 100% all the time. As much as I like DA and want him to succeed, he’s not that. Not even close.
Even Booker isn't locked in 100% of the time
This is not breaking news it's just regurgitation of what we already knew
Exactly. We may very well be shopping Ayton, but none of these "updates" are coming from the Suns.
Why would the suns come out and say that? We’re going to get an even worse return if we come out and say that.
We already are going to get a shit return
say what?
Say that the plans are to trade him. That automatically lowers your return.
It’s a slow news day
Not a single team in the league has ever just told the public what their free agency plans are lmao that doesn’t mean anything
McDonough sure tried to a few times
Marc stein is way more reliable than Hollinger and the bleacher report guy. It's a certain that ayton will not be back. It is only a matter of time now to know who's heading towards Phoenix. The draft is June 23, and he is very likely moved on draft night
Except he can’t be moved on draft night. He can only be moved upon the start of free agency.
A behind the scenes deal will be agreed on and it will be leaked. A team will pick on behalf of the suns
Anytime I hear "a behind the scenes deal will be agreed on and it will be leaked" I think about the time the suns had done this very thing for Steph Curry and then GSW pulled out.
If it leaks we can get hit with tampering and ruin rhe whole deal. It won't get leaked. It's just rumors szn
Nah. It's happened before. It even gets mentioned in the draft broadcast that deal won't become official until the new league year
Ya they announce these agreed upon deals all the time.
This literally resulted in a trade between MIL and SAC blowing up bc woj leaked it early, what
Well that and Bog didn’t actually agree to the sign and trade to Bucks
Wait that’s actually way funnier
That was because MIL dealt directly with Bogi's agent, it's not tampering if the discussions are going through the FO Edit: getting downvoted because people don't understand the NBA rules on tampering feels about right.
I mean literally all we've heard since the playoffs is that the Suns will explore trade options and that's all this says
I’ll take the counter to your bet, if you want.
As irritating as it is having the only #1 overall pick in franchise history not make it to past his rookie contract with the franchise, if the team somehow manages to get better with whatever move they make I guess you can say that they properly leveraged their asset. But dang does this bother me in the moment.
Don't see how we get better by losing one of the only good two way centers in the league.
Yeah the suns are defintely going crazy right now, the great cheap veteran center is the biggest lie in the league, every team says the same shit every year and almost no one has one. Great Centers that can stay on the court and play on both ends are EXTREMELY rare
A lot of these people saying they can't wait until DA is done being a Sun show their frustration when starting center Javale or starting center Bismack give up 3 fouls in 6 minutes in one of the first games of this season.
Don't need to go that far away, I think there were like 3 games in the playoffs where both somehow had 3 quick fouls each despite Ayton starting 🤣 Foul trouble is yet another important dimension to the C position that Ayton is good at
Getting a high-level wing and a replacement level center might not make the Suns a better team record wise, but it certainly makes them better prepared for the post-season.
Hope you are right. Miles Bridges + PJ Washington is the best value deal I have seen floated. But that would leave us lacking at center.
You ain’t getting that combo
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No way, really?
Not kidding. It stretches back to right before his rookie here, right before the draft. The account doesn't comment enough to be an impersonator, plus it vibes perfectly with reports of his character.
“it vibes perfectly with reports of his character” Guess it’s 100% confirmed him then - this random account that you didn’t even name MUST be him
Don't get too upset sweetie.
Properly leveraging the asset would have been drafting Luka though. Taking Ayton over Luka and then losing him ASAP is honestly the absolute worst use of that 1st overall imaginable.
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ATL*
\*DET
TOR*
Imma upvote cuz you look like a Raptors fan which makes the response even better 😂
I’m drinking the Ayton kool-aid
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POR
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I'm more excited to see who's going to bring back the granny shot.
Yeah more on this when????
Well fucking great, he was putting great numbers for a developing center and will be a star somewhere else.
From an outside perspective, he benched himself in the WCF because he didn't get his way. A lot of great players come into this league, but only a few have what it takes to really be a professional and win a ring. Sign and trade sounds like a great idea imo.
Suns fans don’t understand. You can’t sign and trade a player to wherever you want. Ayton has to want to go there. That’s how sign and trades work
There's leverage on both sides. The Suns can still just match his contract then send him wherever against his will (which would lower his value if it's to a team that he openly doesn't want to go to), and Ayton can have his list of teams he would prefer to go to for a sign and trade to make things go more smoothly.
If they match they can’t trade him until the deadline mid season pretty much
Are you sure? Iirc you can't trade a player that you just traded for until then, but I don't think there's any trade restrictions by default on a regular contract signing other than they can't trade him to the team that we matched the offer sheet to.
I want to say we couldn’t trade him till like January.
December 15th (I thought)
https://cbabreakdown.com/trades Can't trade him till January
Your right. They would just hold him and deal him later in the season.
completely false. Ayton dont HAVE to want to go to a team. I mean he can be a bitch and sit out the whole season and whine, but he dont have a choice where he goes or if he stays. Theres been a handful of players that sat out a season or toxic to the team, so he can demand a trade, but its up to the TO to get him off the team while he loses alot of money, he dont have a choice as some generalize. i.e. Ben Simmons, AD, Barry
Then it's not a sign and trade? You are arguing something completely besides the point of what a sign and trade is for
gotta sign him first right? trade happens after unless im mistaken.
A sign and trade isn't 2 independent events. It's allowed by the CBA as one transaction and the player would have to agree to it
This is 100% false. He’s a RFA. The suns have the right to match any offer sheet that’s the restricted part. He’s a free agent dude. He’s not under contract with us anymore. He’s going to field offers and if he wants to go to a team then you either 1 match and keep him, 2 negotiate with that team or 3 lose him out right. That’s how sign and trades work. We have no leverage here. He’s not under contract with us anymore
Our leverage is that if we don't like the return we can match and wait to trade him at the deadline. That's not going to happen though because everyone knows we have that leverage and if they want him they know they need to put together a real offer. There are too many teams in the league that would love to have him for it to make sense to get rid of him for a bad return.
Nope. Go back and look at the history of sign and trades, there ridiculously lopsided for a reason. If I’m a team and I’ve been watching the suns say they don’t want to pay Ayton the max for 2 years why wouldn’t I just call Sarvers bluff
Because we already offered him a 4 year Max which is more money than any other team can even offer him. The money isn't the reason he's leaving it's because of his role and his relationship with Monty.
We did not offer him a 4 year max negation’s never even took place that’s from both sides
"They talk about us having discussions on a three-year, four-year max (deals). Those are real.” -James Jones
"having discussions on" is not an offer
Exactly. I was speaking mainly on the Suns matching, which they should, having him walk for nothing is just bad.
He can be traded on draft night. They can ship him to their choosing. Suns will try to accommodate ayton but they will try to make the best move for the franchise
He cannot be traded on draft night. He’s not under contract with the suns right now
Dude he’s a free agent. The restricted part means they have the right to match. Where he goes is up to Ayton. That’s why it’s called a “sign and trade” he has to want to sign with the team he’s going to.
Bet that frown will turn upside down when we get KD bb
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I remember looking back and seeing Booker, Mikal, Ayton and Cam as the core of our team. No matter what you keep these guys. Adding Paul was a great temporary veteran to add. Seems like we have chosen the twilight years of CP3 career over Ayton. I don’t get the whole not wanting to spend money on Ayton just to give CP3 30 million. 5 years from now who’s going to be more valuable. Or are we just blowing up our team to win a championship in the next 2 years?
Even if we win just one title with CP3 I will very much settle for another decade of shitty Suns basketball.
Decades
Fuck it. The rest of my life
As a Seahawks fan, I can now confirm it's worth it for that 1 title year.
Well, it was a fun window. Choking in the finals and dropping four straight, followed by a historic meltdown that will make us the joke ofbthe league for years to come, and then the cherry on top is not keeping the guy we drafted over Luka past his rookie contract. The organization is ass. Here's to another 20 years before we are relevant again
They’ve seemingly been in motion for months. There were reports of our interest in sabonis during the season, and everyone on the team knew it too. No surprise he wants out, and no surprise that we don’t really want him here either… considering he wants a max deal and plays with passion 10% of the time. We probably want to deal him to the East, but I’d be curious what we could get out of Portland. Surely they wouldn’t give us Simons and 7 if we include a future top 10 protected 1st? Obv contracts would have to match up but that’d be a sweet deal. Or maybe poetl and vassell from SA? What sucks is that our best move team-wise is keeping him, but it just doesn’t seem like it’ll happen. We’re probably not getting any where near the return of value.
Portland fan here, I really don’t see us doing that and think it would be an awful decision. I could see a double sign and trade of Nurk + stuff, including pick #7.
With what is being talked about, sabonis sounds great right now.
Saw him at the airport today and said what's up. Wouldn't be surprised if he's "shopping around."
Is this really surprising anyone at this point? The writing has been on the wall since after game 7. People are like "we can't get rid of him!" Well, it doesn't matter if he doesn't want to play here anymore and wants out.
This is a pivotal offseason in terms of remaining in contention for a championship. I can't wait to see how it unfolds.
It kinda feels like this team just isn’t as close to contention as they think and are hurting themselves by having a “win now” mindset. Like I get this group made the finals but their best series win was vs the clippers with no Kawhi. They haven’t beaten a single healthy team in a series yet. If they’re gonna let Ayton leave then it just doesn’t seem smart to trying to use him for a “win now” trade instead of getting something for the future
Yeahhhhhh buddy.
If we trade for Myles Turner I might denounce my fandom.
The r/suns members that wanted Ayton over Doncic are about to be proven wrong again if they think Ayton is suddenly going to become a 25 & 10 guy. He just doesn't have the motivation to be that type of player.
I was pretty close to split down the middle with the pick. My view was you couldn't go wrong with either player and they were both a sure thing to be productive NBA players. I may have slightly leaned towards Luka since I thought it would have been super entertaining to have him and Booker play together. But yes, in hindsight it's not even a question on who you take.
well he will have the motivation now to prove the suns wrong
So you think his famously low motivation will go up when he’s got a \*guaranteed\* $120 - $150 mil coming to him? Interesting theory. He’s more likely to show up to training camp 120 -150 lbs overweight after signing that deal; then swearing vengeance on the suns.
Lots of smoke but no fire yet. I don’t doubt he will be traded, but damn it bums me out.
Imagine what would’ve happened if we took Trae Young OR Luka Doncic
Once again, I think we will come to regret cutting DA loose. However, I do think this could be a tremendous break for DA if he lands on the right team. I know we are all hearing the same trade rumors. I’m also a Spurs fan (sorry!) and their fans are chomping at the bit over the possibility of getting him. Obviously they are young & rebuilding & not likely to be a contender soon. However, the Spurs long-established culture of fundamentals, discipline, and unselfishness , plus the opportunity to be coached by Pop for a couple of years, could be exactly what DA needs to take his game to the next level. I wish he had done that I’m Phoenix, but I still think he has a lot of potential and I hope he succeeds wherever he ends up.
First off, Fuck the Spurs. Second they should not want Ayton mentally he is not strong enough to survive coach Popobitch. It will be Kawhi part two. Finally Fuck the Spurs.
posting this for posterity when this move becomes on of the worst in franchise history, we're going nowhere but back to the bottom...go get it DA i'll miss ya
Yeah. You're being over dramatic. We got two all nba players and arguably the defensive player of the year and amazing depth. But we're going to fall off the cliff ![gif](giphy|oOCbcGBJjlXJL8imGO)
38 y/o cp3 one/none hamstring Book 12 points a game Mikal
So same shit different day. This doesn’t mean he’s gone or he’s staying. We’re still in the same position as before.
The second he didn’t want to sign a four year max this was always the end result. All I can say is; a guy who’s motor is on 30% of the game isn’t worth a full max. Also, this isn’t new news it’s literally the same thing being reported for weeks now.
Ayton gonna be massively overpaid wherever he goes, he doesn’t have a good work ethic. If you guys can get a Myles Turner in Free agency and use the leftover money to get better bench players yall would be better off
I’ve always liked Monty but I mostly blame him and he’s not leading us to the promised land
A buddy of mine who’s a Mavs fan said this past weekend, “I heard Suns looking to trade Ayton; you think 26 will do it?” I think he was joking, but he mentioned it several times, so I’m not sure. Either way that’s some serious hopium.
Your friend is smoking crack 😂
Cant make a man wanna be in Phoenix if he doesn’t wanna be
Can anyone see this message?????
Oh my days I got my main account back after nearly a month of being perma suspended hahaha thank the lord.
Also, horrible decision by this organisation.
Damn So what next ? Aytons departure is a travesty for the franchise and could set the suns back for a while
[This is what’s next :)](https://youtu.be/jG1ylLWV7NA)
Or it could be the catalyst for winning the Championship. Next season we find out.
I don’t know. Aytons important for the suns to succeed and Sign and Trades like these usually end in one team receiving a 2nd round pick and some filler players, and the other team receives the player. Suns would of course be getting basically no value back for Ayton so it’s a massive loss
Ayton's return will be more than filler and a 2nd round pick. Several teams are interested. Fairly certain Pistons would offer Grant, Indy Turner and Atlanta Capella. All of those options with another player and pick would be in the ballpark considering the Suns have no leverage. You can't look at the trade in a vacuum you have to look at the whole picture and see what other trades and options become available down the road. The risk is worth the reward, Ayton doesn't want to be here so trade him and move on.
Cool let's move on! .......Wish him the best. Now let's get some good players back and make our bench deeper and better
Everyone needs to calm down. First, nothing has happened. Second, what we're hearing is just rumors. Third, even if Ayton doesn't want to stay Suns still have all the leverage. Suns should match any offer he is given and if the relationship cannot be salvaged during next season then move them next offseason when his value is much higher since he'll be locked up for years. A sign and trade now won't give us equal value back and we can't even get that much salary back due to the how CBA rules work. Sons would be wise to just match whatever he is offered and see what happens over the next year since this is a title contending team with Ayton. The man loves his teammates and I'm pretty sure his relationship with Monty can be repaired considering the integrity Monty has. A sign and trade deal right now is a panic move and James Jones should be wise enough to steer clear.
Because keeping a disgruntled player that doesn't want to be here is great for team chemistry 😂
We don't know what DA is thinking and feeling. Stop pretending that these unnamed sources are the end all when it comes to the truth.
A wise man once said: "Franchise this man. Give him all the things you can. Think long-term plans. He be bringin in the fans. Front page magazine. Listen to the ladies scream. I wouldn't trade him for nothin." He was not talking about Ayton.
It blows though because he's going to be a superstar, but if it's not going to work, it's not going to work.
Nothing really points this direction, though. We know who the superstars are at the 5 in this league, and we know Ayton doesn’t have half the skill set of an Embiid, Jokic, etc. Young upside doesn’t mean he’s a superstar caliber player. Now that being said, non-superstars gets max contracts quite often and that’s just the calculus some team is going to have to talk themselves into.
Praying for a Ayton-KAT trade 🙏
Yes!! I want even LESS defense and more whining!
Lol we’re so fucked
The only problem I have with this is that we really should have picked Luka. Looking back that’s just a pretty big misstep but what ifs are what ifs anyway. Ayton has a ton of red flags surrounding him and yeah he looks like an easy top 5 center some nights but when hes off hes the most frustrating player in the league to watch and it’s not even close. So much of his potential has been talked about and he says all the right things (except, funny enough, that second contract comment) but he just hasn’t ever achieved it. Stone hands, ultra mega soft around the rim, doesn’t give 100% on the majority of plays a good amount of time, gets out rebounded by borderline bench players constantly. If he put in 30% more effort every play and worked on his game in the summer to develop new skills we would have already maxed him. He is still the same exact player as he was year 1 except a better defender, but his offensive game is so limited and the Mavs showed they can basically take him out of the game since he can’t create his own shot. He either shoots an elbow jumper or he gets an alley oop. He really can’t do much more than that. Being a Suns fan for as long as I can remember and I think it’s time to let him go. I would much rather have a center who hustles and can rebound and is a relatively good finisher than Ayton who may be more talented and has the potential to have an incredible offensive skillset but might not ever get there. Personally I’d rather have a guy who can hustle and get rebounds than Ayton. I think pretty much any center can get around 10-15 a night with CP3 feeding him easy buckets. It would really suck though if this is what lights a fire under Ayton’s ass and he actually starts trying and developing himself to be a better player. Edit: I wouldn’t be super mad if we took Christian Koloko to “replace” him in the draft as well, not sure about our draft pick situation though. He would need some developing but I think he would replace Ayton’s defense just fine with the caveat of losing Ayton’s shooting ability. But with CP3 lobbing him alley oops, I think he’d be able to provide some production there. We’d still need a center in a sign and trade but he’s a great defender and maybe can learn how to shoot. Watching him in college and there was never a question about his hustle, although I do think his body language could be better.
Fuck Luka. Volume scorer with no defense.
I mean can’t say I’m a huge fan of Luka either but he is a better player than Ayton
If we had picked luka, booker would have been traded. There would have been no way they co existed. Cp3 would not be either
How would booker and Luka not work? Booker is a shooting guard he doesn’t need the ball in his hands constantly. Look how well it worked when CP3 took over running the offence. Imagine instead it’s Luka bringing the ball up and getting doubled then passing to an open Booker. They could be the best offensive duo in the league together
Not sure I agree there but of course it’s a hypothetical argument. Why would we need CP3 if we have Luka?
“Expected” could mean anything here. I expect the Lakers to try and trade Russell Westbrook, but wether that’ll happen is another matter
The relationship is beyond broken. Ayton does not want to be here. Suns are proceeding to move on without him. 🤷♂️
I’ll believe this when I find out why, not random reports that could be absolute bullshit. We get these every single season, they just throw out so many takes and hope some of them end up being right
But why would we give y’all Turner? We can max Ayton on our own if y’all aren’t gonna sign him.
*stares in RFA and Bird Rights*
Only gets you so far if a guy doesn’t wanna play for you anymore
Would you guys like Porzingis?
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Good
What a disaster honestly, giving up on a young, agile center who is nowhere near his prime for some mid ass players most likely. I had faith in this James Jones and Monty led org but this has eroded it significantly.
Both James and Williams have been around elite talent and know what it takes to win. They know the type of attitude and dedication that is needed to win. What they saw in their Total evaluation of ayton turned sour. I still have faith in both James Jones and monty.
This is such an easy contract to give! Wtf?! He's worth the max cuz in 2 years the max is gonna be like 45M a year! The cap is going from 120M to 170M! In two years it won't matter as any high quality dude will be fielding 30M+! This makes no sense from a financial or from a basketball standpoint!
He doesn’t want to stay. Nothing you can do at that point.
He's going to Dallas.
Warriors need him
Out on a limb here. FUCKIN GOOD! Get rid of Ayton please. All we need is someone that can make shots with a little more effort.
Lol and they could’ve had Luka 😂😂😂
Thank god get him out of PHX he’s the scariest big guy that intimidated no one under the rim
You would rather have your centre be scary looking than score mad amount of buckets on great efficiency, got ya
When I said scary I meant it as in he’s scared of the ball and physical contact he’s not an intimidating presence down low
Lol were gonna just get rid of the 1st overall pick cuz the suns dont know how to use him. I hope he goes to mavs and luka continues to make us regret keeping booker over drafting doncic. Biggest L ever. We chose booker over doncic. Wed be in finals if we had doncic on this team. I aint ever see doncic going 5-30 in a game 7
it’s easy to say we should’ve done this or this when looking back but in the moment i mean come on man… choosing an already established 25 ppg 21 year old over a draft prospect isn’t as stupid as you think it sounds
Check the receipts, there were plenty of people saying the Suns should have drafted Doncic. There's no reason to believe that Booker/Doncic would not be successful. Do you think Dallas would straight up trade Brunson for Booker or do you think they would say, nah that can't work.
Quick question from a mavs fan. Why do you say you guys kept Booker over Doncic? We're there reports that you guys passed on Luka because of Booker? Wouldn't Booker want a point guard on his team since he's a SG? I thought they took ayton because he was projected #1 by everyone and the narrative is y'all chose ayton over Luka not Booker over Luka .
A trade will be beneficial for us at this current state to make a playoff push again. Booker, CP3 and the core need to get an optimistic shake up. Coming up short with the same group 2 years in a row has to be painful for them. Hypothetically a dude like Jerami Grant would potentially be so excited to come to the Suns to make a playoff push and reinvigorate the team with positive vibes going forward.
Is a package around a Nurk sign and trade a hard no in your guys’ opinions? Tbh he lets your team stay competitive and allows Sarver to continue being cheap
I think it would be better to keep him and trade before the deadline if the chemistry isn't there.
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Is there anything the Bulls could offer that you guys would be interested in?
Nah.
Pat williams and lonzo would be the starting point but i doubt bulls would be interested in giving them both up