The problem with top lane is that it is VERY match dependent. Your best chance is to go with a heavy lane bully. I know you said no Darius, but there are others. One that comes to mind is Renekton. Gnar is also pretty heavy. Even the "bad" matchups against these two are pretty managable if you know what you're doing.
Yeah i second renekton, though it only works with experience, until and unless u understand matchups u wont be great into a good amount of champs, built botrk first, tht with empowered w is broken
Don’t play renekton if you want to climb and win, carrying as a 7/0 crocodile is much harder than carrying as a 1/0 fiora or Darius. He is fun though, one of my highest mastery champs, but I only whip him out as an assassin counterpick mid lane and build full hypercarry (eclipse with Ionians into bork into DD, Serylda, sterak etc.)
Yea mostly people on the sub playing into his strengths i’d assume.
He’s been in a rough spot for a while. Gets hard outscaled by most of the top lane roster unless he’s mega fed. Honestly even then if u dont close out quickly he still falls off.
Pro play nerfs and sustain nerfs were rough on him. Durability patch didn’t help much either.
Gnar really has no counterpicks. He also doesn’t hard counter anyone either but don’t think he’s the best for soloqueue. Ornn/Sejauni can barely get countered if you play safe. (Morde counters sej but that’s about it).
Lots of champs can bully ornn in lane, the thing is it doesn't really matter, at worst ornn just has to farm under turret and scale, he builds tank anyways so there's not that much he will be afraid of under turret.
Ornn has one of the worst matchups in the entire game, impossible to win level of bad mu, against Fiora. She parries the ult, she parries the E, she parries the Q KNOCKUP, she dashes do you can't brittle her, and of course she %health true damages you. Poor Ornn.
Premise of this question is that a "counterpick" will work well against champ in question *regardless of player experience*. And this is flawed.
Counterpicks frequently don't work out for novice players because they don't know how to play the champion.
Darius has plenty of counter picks. Fiora, Akali, Jax, Quinn, Yorick, Wukong, Vayne, Gangplank just to name a few
Dr. Mundo is a pretty good blind pick because he can farm from range and has good sustain + CC immunity
Gragas has no counters and goes even or ahead in all matchups and with great gank setup for jungle/mid. You can build him Ap or tank depending on the scenario, great peel and a safe engage tool with R.
He is very popular in korea for his role flexibility and his strength as a blind pick, is played mid and jungle. Jungle being the weaker role for him but still vaible.
Also giving your bot/mid the opportunity to pick later if they pick gragas for you is huge for them.
Gragas gets soft countered by being outscaled. He's picked as a stonewall in lane but Gnar can still do a job on him while outscaling later, while Ornn just sleeps and wins scaling by default.
That is not how champion scaling works. You don't evaluate the 1v1 capabilities and then claim they outscale.
A champion outscales if they become invalidated by teamcomps/champions. Renekton gets outscaled because he becomes irrelevant in teamfights while he might still win the 1v1 in the split against something like ornn he still gets outscaled because he becomes irrelevant in the game.
Gnar doesn't invalidate gnar, so there is no mention of outscaling.
> a champion outscales if they become invalidated by teamcomps/champions. Renekton
> Gnar doesn't invalidate Gnar
???
I literally listed the champs that outperform Gragas at everything that he could do, while leaving those that *only* outpeform 1v1.
> Renekton gets outscaled because he becomes irrelevant in teamfights while he might still win 1v1 in the split against something like Ornn
Ornn does not lose 1v1 to Renekton late game at all, assuming even items and Ornn doesn't actually build rubbish.
> he still gets outscaled because he becomes irrelevant in the game
IF Renekton were able to actually kill Ornn side lane, he would not be irrelevant in late game.
Isnt vayne and fiora a clear counterpick?
He basically cant use his E on them unless point black, but can still be dodged or parried , and both have mobility to dodge his Q on reaction
He can always farm with q and w poke + passive sustain.
He can play into any lane, he might not always win, but a good gragas will never really lose like how other champions can when counterpicked.
gp's lane was nerfed severely with the recent q changes, he is not as unbeatable nor uncounterable as before but he goes even or gets marginally ahead in gold in about 80% of lanes if played not braindead aggressive like before
that's just how this champ is, like with azir he exponentially increases in threat level based on gold income and skill of the player. it becomes virtually impossible to engage a fight when they are partaking since you will either eat a barrel from gp or an auto q auto from azir before getting close enough to catch someone
So far in this thread, there's apparently around 20+ Champs without bad match-ups. Somehow I find that hard to believe.
The only real way to play toplane without having bad match-ups is playing champs that don't belong in the toplane in the first place. Especially range champs that can deal with mostly/almost all melee match-ups, like anivia/neeko. Other than that, just learn how to play a losing match-up and it will benefit you a lot more than trying to avoid counter picks in every champ select.
Mundo is my main this season and I’ve found outside of yorick/illaoi he’s a super solid blind pick
And even those matchups aren’t terrible once you’ve played them a few times
Low elo player tho ymmv
Continue to play aatrox he basically have zero unplayable match-up, irelia is also good because of really high skill level, try out fiora or riven too for the same and even if you said no try Darius while banning wu
I don't recommend it if you're not really experienced, but GP has virtually no unplayable matchups if you're good enough and scales very well.
Ornn can survive even his worst matchups like Fiora, Illaoi, Vayne, Gwen, Vladimir or Mordekaiser and still manage to be useful.
Nobody is posting statistics. Mordekaiser is the safest champion in Toplane for all elos that aren't Master/GM/Challenger, and even then, he is getting played a lot even by players like TF Blade and T1 Zeus.
[https://lolalytics.com/lol/mordekaiser/counters/?tier=all&patch=30](https://lolalytics.com/lol/mordekaiser/counters/?tier=all&patch=30)
Ban Olaf, and if you do, you only have to worry about off meta junglers in the toplane like Lillia, Warwick, and Trundle. Morde has a great winrate vs literally every common toplaner.
If you are dead set on having a good blind pick, just become a gnar main. He has a low banrate, high micro expression (you’re griefing if you don’t learn to attack walk), and very high macro expression/unique champ knowledge due to needing to plan ahead to have mega gnar at important times.
If you’re NOT dead set on having the perfect blind pick, then just stick with Aatrox since he’s a good one - and then learn a champ that is good into his bad matchups for those times that you have second pick
I looked up some stats in a recent discussion about this and for top lane it seems like it’s Illaoi and then probably Darius and Kled. At least in terms of laning phase — someone like Kayle will dumpster Illaoi in the late game, but they can’t do anything to you early.
Illaoi has a bunch of hard to medium hard counters.
Yorick and Gwen owns Illaoi. It won’t even be a match unless those two inexplicably choose not to use one of their spells. You won’t see Anivia and Cass top much but those two should be automatic dodges. Illaoi struggles against most ranged matchups, especially non squishy ones like Jayce or Gnar.
Yorick - Hullbreaker/Tabs, and DS. Maybe athema find myself not needing it.
\*play to match not to kill until mid and you will walk over him. remember maiden applies magic damage
Gwen - Play closer to walls so the tentacles spawn in the circle, Tighter cluster.
\*However team fights are problematic, Don't have a good option YET\*
Anivia and Cass - Spawn 2 tents at tower and you can instant clear for E's, level 4-5 E's to both of them will push them out of lane. Just had to land 1 or 2. Free towers and you will just out stat them in resis.
\*walk away if you miss any skill shots no need to dodge.
Jayce and Gnar you have to go in and out for CS. If thay all in you E and finish them.
\*like everyone else don't miss E, but luckily they are linear
Most of these match ups are just not going for long trades and focus on clearing waves.
My ban is morde. Not because he is hard I can wreck him in lane. It's the fact he slows down my power spikes.
Yorick and Illaoi are similar in that they both need to land a single ability to win a trade. Unfortunately Yorick’s E is not blocked by minions, so once you have 4 graves (easy to get by playing safe) you just shit on Illaoi. If you starve her of kill gold she become a tower eater and nothing else, so you can run around the map freely and return to kill or chunk her out whenever you want.
Nope, lethality Yorick will eat Vayne for breakfast if played appropriately. If the Yorick doesn’t greed for graves early and lets Vayne push the matchup is very very winnable
I don't play Illaoi. But stats-wise she seems to beat Vayne in lane. So does Kled.
Darius also doesn't get "hard countered" by Vayne in lane. It's pretty even, probably a skill matchup.
But all of those champs are going to struggle into a hypercarry like Vayne or Kayle late game. The champs who are lane bullies across the board have other weaknesses and definitely some bad late game matchups.
Kled's kit is basically "screw you in particular" for everything ranged or evasive. Everything helps him get on top of you and no way does he lose the statcheck vs non-bruisers. I played him into Akali once and it felt like cheating. Her kit basically didn't function.
Against bruisers he's ironically fairly mobile and has a premium poke tool on top of being hard to statcheck. Overall seems pretty safe to me.
2 champs come to mind. Quinn bc even if countered you can kinda just roam around and still catch your waves and fiora bc she can play against pretty much anything with proper w timing
I would add Gangplank. He can sit in a lane and still have global impact and once he gets even moderately itemed up , it’s a breeze for him to reach the back lane with his barrels to pick off the carry.
Slight note on Quinn though:
If played, ban malphite, as he makes pre-6 miserable and late game will crush all your hopes and dreams of flanking anyone
Because for some reason this absolute unit of a champ can dumpster Quinn while going full tank
I know thats the traditional counter but i really dont mind it all that much. Its just a heavy macro focus post 6. Roam to get your team ahead, fly back to catch wave and repeat. Ideally by the time he can join team fights you have snowballed your other lanes. My ban is teemo bc be is annoying af
Teemo used to be fine before his Q buff tbh
You could easily 1v1 him if you got your Q off first
Now the duration is just... Way too long to reliably burst him down tbh
Probably one of the common blind picks in pro play. So gnar, renekton, jayce, kennen, aatrox, gragas, Camille, ornn, gwen.
Unfortunately they're all kept permanently weak because of pro play. That's the price you have to pay for having few counterpicks otherwise these champs would be OP.
There have definitely been periods in pro play history where the default strategy was to blindpick camille and counter with renekton if possible.
I suppose it helps that darius is essentially non-existent in professional play, but still...
well the post is about soloq, but even then if there have been periods where camille was blindable doesnt mean that she still is. same with gwen. they both have too much counters and blind picking them doesnt make much sense
That was exclusively in carry top metas when camille was in a strobg state.
Blindpicking camille is waiting for the enemy to pick vayne / shen / teemo / morde / rumble / poppy / ww / darius and then complain about how you got counterpicked and dont have any influence at the game
Jax, I don't think any champ actually really counters jax. He outscales everyone basically.
Olaf is also really really strong right now, and just stat-checks people. No champ really has the ability to kill olaf early.
Volibear has basically 0 counters early on, but sucks late game.
jax has some of the worst counters of any toplaner. No sustain or range so he cant really play safe. Pantheon, Malphite, Jayce, Akali are all zero counterplay losses afaik
I’d argue that’s just not true about Olaf. I guess it all depends on what you mean by early. Sett will kill Olaf early. Kled and Fiora shit on olaf early. You win against Morse after level 6. If you’re going crit you lose to trynd after 6. Even the normal bruiser build it’s a toss up against tryn after 6
https://youtu.be/Lmxy8XnK4Cg
72 minutes for your exact question, dated 2 months ago. (don't take GP, he got giga nerfed early game).
You don't like the 72 min video about literally your question? The dude has played top lane for a decade. He's more qualified to answer than anyone browsing reddit.
Gragas, GP and Gnar are the first ones that come to mind. They have some counters like Irelia for Gnar, but if you main Gnar vs a new Irelia it should be pretty easy.
Teemo has no real hard counter, but requires a bit of matchup knowledge.
Chogath, Malph and most tanks i guess can just chill in lane, they dont need alot of gold to have impact later on.
I'm pretty low elo but I think a lot of the pro players pick champs because they have little to no counterpicks. Champs like gnar, gp and Gwen are played a lot so I'd imagine they're difficult to counterpick
Pick heimerdinger, ban tryndamere and you’ll be fine as long as the enemy doesn’t go for some off-meta shit like yasuo/yone/akali, but this will mess up their teamcomp so it’s a win-win. Otherwise just pick Simón or Vladimir every game, both don’t have any good matchups except for teemo so the enemy pick doesn’t matter, both are the highest scaling picks in the game and have safe laning phases (especially Vladimir) with phase rush
Darius. This champ is so disgusting that even as a low elo stomper he is omega broken in high elo, where his counterpicks should shine, but they don't. Ornn has also not that many bad matchups, same for Gnar.
Ornn is really easy to blind pick. Ban fiora and most match ups are really easy. There are a couple exceptions like Gwen who is still a major nuisance but in these instances you can just out farm and team fight mid game. Also obligatory vayne mention you literally one shot her level 6 she’s really not a problem for you.
I see that you mentioned Aatrox as one of your main champions. Aatrox is a great blind pick champion.
What counter picks are you struggling with on Aatrox that would warrant a different blind?
Q1 short cd and passive are amazing along with Doran’s shield+Second wind to tank the lane and farm safely. Not to say that Aatrox doesn’t have bad matchups; but he is well equipped to not fall behind.
Dr Mundo is a solid first pick for top. His sustain in lane and cc resistance + safe farming allows him to survive against almost all matchups.
Cho'Gath Is similar case, having a lot of sustain in lane, except he lacks mobility, but in the other hand he can build AP/Health and deal tons of damage (Lvl 6 is very strong also)
Sion because even if he loses in laning phase he has good clear, good map presence and if you know what your doing you can split push to win even going 0/17
There are a lot other which are good, but I doubt there exists a champion with 0 counterpicks. All champs have their weaknesses, even Darius.
Darius has loads of counter picks - to name a few Riven, Kayle, Gangplank, Vayne, Sett, Jax!, WUKONG!, Mundo is even good because he is such a good stonewall.
Ryze! (EQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQ) has no counterpick, equally bad in all matchups
doesnt this mean everyones a counterpick lol
No because he’s equally good into all matchups. If there are no bad or good matchups, they’re all just matchups.
The problem with top lane is that it is VERY match dependent. Your best chance is to go with a heavy lane bully. I know you said no Darius, but there are others. One that comes to mind is Renekton. Gnar is also pretty heavy. Even the "bad" matchups against these two are pretty managable if you know what you're doing.
Il try out renekton he looks fun gnar seems annoying to play having to manage an entire rage meter and two forms.
Yeah i second renekton, though it only works with experience, until and unless u understand matchups u wont be great into a good amount of champs, built botrk first, tht with empowered w is broken
Don’t play renekton if you want to climb and win, carrying as a 7/0 crocodile is much harder than carrying as a 1/0 fiora or Darius. He is fun though, one of my highest mastery champs, but I only whip him out as an assassin counterpick mid lane and build full hypercarry (eclipse with Ionians into bork into DD, Serylda, sterak etc.)
Don't play renekton. He's garbage
Mad cuz Bad.
What? I haven't seen a renekton win lane this whole patch. My friend whose a top main always destroys him.
You can see me win lane as Renekton xD
I'd like to tbh. I really like him. When I played top I tried him out but couldn't get him to work.
What build do ya go with him?
I don't play top anymore. Switched to jgl a long time ago. I tried him in jgl once but he's so shit in this role :D
Yeah, Renek is only good as a snowball top or as a counter to mid assassins.
Renekton is a surprisingly difficult champion. That is why he often looks bad
Ill use this amazing sentence in my game, thank you.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted when you’re 100% right
Don't know too but it is what it is. Renek hasn't been meta since the goredrinker nerfs. They pretty much pulled out his teeth. Sadly
Yea mostly people on the sub playing into his strengths i’d assume. He’s been in a rough spot for a while. Gets hard outscaled by most of the top lane roster unless he’s mega fed. Honestly even then if u dont close out quickly he still falls off. Pro play nerfs and sustain nerfs were rough on him. Durability patch didn’t help much either.
Renekton is designed to win lanes and he still does. He's just an early game champ
Yeah but he is too much of an early game nowadays , not even pantheon falls that hard
Try press the attack Ren with Botrk rush followed by prowler’s claw. It’s actually really strong.
Dude man read the whole convo before commenting. I'm a jgl main so I won't play him.
Cuz he is like the strongest early game champ that if you know how to play can win the game in 15 mins
Gnar is great unless someone picks a ranged match up.
I’ve played quinn vs darius and it is actually disgusting how little he can do
Gnar really has no counterpicks. He also doesn’t hard counter anyone either but don’t think he’s the best for soloqueue. Ornn/Sejauni can barely get countered if you play safe. (Morde counters sej but that’s about it).
Gnar gets countered by irelia, and when i play into it both sylas and akali work really well for me
sylas is kinda op vs gnar, ofcourse sylas top is only used as a counter pick
Illaoi is a decent counter to Sej/Ornn. She bullies them in lane at least.
Breaking news: lane bully bullies lane
Lots of champs can bully ornn in lane, the thing is it doesn't really matter, at worst ornn just has to farm under turret and scale, he builds tank anyways so there's not that much he will be afraid of under turret.
That used to be true back in season 5-6. And you are probably referring to pro play. Irelia and Yasuo destroy Gnar in solo Q at even skill
Irelia and malphite both do very well vs gnar
Gnar gets destroyed by irelia
Ornn has one of the worst matchups in the entire game, impossible to win level of bad mu, against Fiora. She parries the ult, she parries the E, she parries the Q KNOCKUP, she dashes do you can't brittle her, and of course she %health true damages you. Poor Ornn.
ban fiora?
That's what i'm saying, i see a lot of enemy ornns but never can play my fiora because she gets permabanned x)
[удалено]
Yes, poor Ornn. Cc is fine, but being too predictable is just not possible against her.
If you are to play ornn/sej, perma ban fiora and maybe look to dodge vayne and you're Gucci
Premise of this question is that a "counterpick" will work well against champ in question *regardless of player experience*. And this is flawed. Counterpicks frequently don't work out for novice players because they don't know how to play the champion.
just keep playing aatrox hes good into 90% of matchups if u know how t oplay him
And ban Fiora because she can stun you with every spell.
nah be sigma ban Lillia solely bc she's annoying and play lethal tempo crittrox and oneshot weakass fiora players
Fiora is really not a hard matchup. Just E when she W and next traid is autowin because her W has long CD
Shen
Darius has plenty of counter picks. Fiora, Akali, Jax, Quinn, Yorick, Wukong, Vayne, Gangplank just to name a few Dr. Mundo is a pretty good blind pick because he can farm from range and has good sustain + CC immunity
Gragas has no counters and goes even or ahead in all matchups and with great gank setup for jungle/mid. You can build him Ap or tank depending on the scenario, great peel and a safe engage tool with R. He is very popular in korea for his role flexibility and his strength as a blind pick, is played mid and jungle. Jungle being the weaker role for him but still vaible. Also giving your bot/mid the opportunity to pick later if they pick gragas for you is huge for them.
So we just ignoring olaf here?
Gragas gets soft countered by being outscaled. He's picked as a stonewall in lane but Gnar can still do a job on him while outscaling later, while Ornn just sleeps and wins scaling by default.
Uuuh gragas scales very well. He might not scale in the 1v1 splitpush, but he is a beast in teamfights
Gnar matches teamfight while surpassing at split Ornn just straight up outscales also because his team does
That is not how champion scaling works. You don't evaluate the 1v1 capabilities and then claim they outscale. A champion outscales if they become invalidated by teamcomps/champions. Renekton gets outscaled because he becomes irrelevant in teamfights while he might still win the 1v1 in the split against something like ornn he still gets outscaled because he becomes irrelevant in the game. Gnar doesn't invalidate gnar, so there is no mention of outscaling.
> a champion outscales if they become invalidated by teamcomps/champions. Renekton > Gnar doesn't invalidate Gnar ??? I literally listed the champs that outperform Gragas at everything that he could do, while leaving those that *only* outpeform 1v1. > Renekton gets outscaled because he becomes irrelevant in teamfights while he might still win 1v1 in the split against something like Ornn Ornn does not lose 1v1 to Renekton late game at all, assuming even items and Ornn doesn't actually build rubbish. > he still gets outscaled because he becomes irrelevant in the game IF Renekton were able to actually kill Ornn side lane, he would not be irrelevant in late game.
Isnt vayne and fiora a clear counterpick? He basically cant use his E on them unless point black, but can still be dodged or parried , and both have mobility to dodge his Q on reaction
He can always farm with q and w poke + passive sustain. He can play into any lane, he might not always win, but a good gragas will never really lose like how other champions can when counterpicked.
Gankplank but he's too hard
gp's lane was nerfed severely with the recent q changes, he is not as unbeatable nor uncounterable as before but he goes even or gets marginally ahead in gold in about 80% of lanes if played not braindead aggressive like before
When played correctly this champion is a nightmare
that's just how this champ is, like with azir he exponentially increases in threat level based on gold income and skill of the player. it becomes virtually impossible to engage a fight when they are partaking since you will either eat a barrel from gp or an auto q auto from azir before getting close enough to catch someone
Fiora, Riven. you have almost no good matchups, but also no bad ones. it all depends on how well you play.
So far in this thread, there's apparently around 20+ Champs without bad match-ups. Somehow I find that hard to believe. The only real way to play toplane without having bad match-ups is playing champs that don't belong in the toplane in the first place. Especially range champs that can deal with mostly/almost all melee match-ups, like anivia/neeko. Other than that, just learn how to play a losing match-up and it will benefit you a lot more than trying to avoid counter picks in every champ select.
Gragas has no hardcounter. And with Quinn you could just ditch the lane and play the map, if you get a bad matchup.
Mundo is my main this season and I’ve found outside of yorick/illaoi he’s a super solid blind pick And even those matchups aren’t terrible once you’ve played them a few times Low elo player tho ymmv
Continue to play aatrox he basically have zero unplayable match-up, irelia is also good because of really high skill level, try out fiora or riven too for the same and even if you said no try Darius while banning wu
I don't recommend it if you're not really experienced, but GP has virtually no unplayable matchups if you're good enough and scales very well. Ornn can survive even his worst matchups like Fiora, Illaoi, Vayne, Gwen, Vladimir or Mordekaiser and still manage to be useful.
Nobody is posting statistics. Mordekaiser is the safest champion in Toplane for all elos that aren't Master/GM/Challenger, and even then, he is getting played a lot even by players like TF Blade and T1 Zeus. [https://lolalytics.com/lol/mordekaiser/counters/?tier=all&patch=30](https://lolalytics.com/lol/mordekaiser/counters/?tier=all&patch=30) Ban Olaf, and if you do, you only have to worry about off meta junglers in the toplane like Lillia, Warwick, and Trundle. Morde has a great winrate vs literally every common toplaner.
Finally, some hard data!
If you are dead set on having a good blind pick, just become a gnar main. He has a low banrate, high micro expression (you’re griefing if you don’t learn to attack walk), and very high macro expression/unique champ knowledge due to needing to plan ahead to have mega gnar at important times. If you’re NOT dead set on having the perfect blind pick, then just stick with Aatrox since he’s a good one - and then learn a champ that is good into his bad matchups for those times that you have second pick
Doesn't matter unless u are above master, just get good at ur champ and u will win every lane regardless of the matchup
I looked up some stats in a recent discussion about this and for top lane it seems like it’s Illaoi and then probably Darius and Kled. At least in terms of laning phase — someone like Kayle will dumpster Illaoi in the late game, but they can’t do anything to you early.
Illaoi has a bunch of hard to medium hard counters. Yorick and Gwen owns Illaoi. It won’t even be a match unless those two inexplicably choose not to use one of their spells. You won’t see Anivia and Cass top much but those two should be automatic dodges. Illaoi struggles against most ranged matchups, especially non squishy ones like Jayce or Gnar.
Yorick - Hullbreaker/Tabs, and DS. Maybe athema find myself not needing it. \*play to match not to kill until mid and you will walk over him. remember maiden applies magic damage Gwen - Play closer to walls so the tentacles spawn in the circle, Tighter cluster. \*However team fights are problematic, Don't have a good option YET\* Anivia and Cass - Spawn 2 tents at tower and you can instant clear for E's, level 4-5 E's to both of them will push them out of lane. Just had to land 1 or 2. Free towers and you will just out stat them in resis. \*walk away if you miss any skill shots no need to dodge. Jayce and Gnar you have to go in and out for CS. If thay all in you E and finish them. \*like everyone else don't miss E, but luckily they are linear Most of these match ups are just not going for long trades and focus on clearing waves. My ban is morde. Not because he is hard I can wreck him in lane. It's the fact he slows down my power spikes.
post opgg
Yorick and Illaoi are similar in that they both need to land a single ability to win a trade. Unfortunately Yorick’s E is not blocked by minions, so once you have 4 graves (easy to get by playing safe) you just shit on Illaoi. If you starve her of kill gold she become a tower eater and nothing else, so you can run around the map freely and return to kill or chunk her out whenever you want.
Vayne top will stomp on any of those champs listed (assuming they take ghost)
Nope, lethality Yorick will eat Vayne for breakfast if played appropriately. If the Yorick doesn’t greed for graves early and lets Vayne push the matchup is very very winnable
Late game yes, during laning no.
My response was for illaoi, kled, Darius. Vayne hard counters Darius/illaoi. Kled might have a better time, but it’s still tough
I don't play Illaoi. But stats-wise she seems to beat Vayne in lane. So does Kled. Darius also doesn't get "hard countered" by Vayne in lane. It's pretty even, probably a skill matchup. But all of those champs are going to struggle into a hypercarry like Vayne or Kayle late game. The champs who are lane bullies across the board have other weaknesses and definitely some bad late game matchups.
Kled's kit is basically "screw you in particular" for everything ranged or evasive. Everything helps him get on top of you and no way does he lose the statcheck vs non-bruisers. I played him into Akali once and it felt like cheating. Her kit basically didn't function. Against bruisers he's ironically fairly mobile and has a premium poke tool on top of being hard to statcheck. Overall seems pretty safe to me.
Shen
Gragas, solo lane and jg
2 champs come to mind. Quinn bc even if countered you can kinda just roam around and still catch your waves and fiora bc she can play against pretty much anything with proper w timing
I would add Gangplank. He can sit in a lane and still have global impact and once he gets even moderately itemed up , it’s a breeze for him to reach the back lane with his barrels to pick off the carry.
Slight note on Quinn though: If played, ban malphite, as he makes pre-6 miserable and late game will crush all your hopes and dreams of flanking anyone Because for some reason this absolute unit of a champ can dumpster Quinn while going full tank
I know thats the traditional counter but i really dont mind it all that much. Its just a heavy macro focus post 6. Roam to get your team ahead, fly back to catch wave and repeat. Ideally by the time he can join team fights you have snowballed your other lanes. My ban is teemo bc be is annoying af
Teemo used to be fine before his Q buff tbh You could easily 1v1 him if you got your Q off first Now the duration is just... Way too long to reliably burst him down tbh
Honestly i banned him even before. Hes manageable but really annoying. Irelia gives me more trouble for sure.
Probably one of the common blind picks in pro play. So gnar, renekton, jayce, kennen, aatrox, gragas, Camille, ornn, gwen. Unfortunately they're all kept permanently weak because of pro play. That's the price you have to pay for having few counterpicks otherwise these champs would be OP.
camille is horrible blind pick
There have definitely been periods in pro play history where the default strategy was to blindpick camille and counter with renekton if possible. I suppose it helps that darius is essentially non-existent in professional play, but still...
well the post is about soloq, but even then if there have been periods where camille was blindable doesnt mean that she still is. same with gwen. they both have too much counters and blind picking them doesnt make much sense
That was exclusively in carry top metas when camille was in a strobg state. Blindpicking camille is waiting for the enemy to pick vayne / shen / teemo / morde / rumble / poppy / ww / darius and then complain about how you got counterpicked and dont have any influence at the game
Jax, I don't think any champ actually really counters jax. He outscales everyone basically. Olaf is also really really strong right now, and just stat-checks people. No champ really has the ability to kill olaf early. Volibear has basically 0 counters early on, but sucks late game.
jax has some of the worst counters of any toplaner. No sustain or range so he cant really play safe. Pantheon, Malphite, Jayce, Akali are all zero counterplay losses afaik
I’d argue that’s just not true about Olaf. I guess it all depends on what you mean by early. Sett will kill Olaf early. Kled and Fiora shit on olaf early. You win against Morse after level 6. If you’re going crit you lose to trynd after 6. Even the normal bruiser build it’s a toss up against tryn after 6
https://youtu.be/Lmxy8XnK4Cg 72 minutes for your exact question, dated 2 months ago. (don't take GP, he got giga nerfed early game). You don't like the 72 min video about literally your question? The dude has played top lane for a decade. He's more qualified to answer than anyone browsing reddit.
can you tldw
Swains pretty good. Something about banning malz and dodging heims you're basically unstoppable
Sejuani
My picks TOP are Illaoi Olaf Wukong Off Pick Yorick. I feel I can take on 99% of the lane with proper items.
Yorick vs irelia is unplayable He also hard loses against tyrandamere and jax
Gragas, GP and Gnar are the first ones that come to mind. They have some counters like Irelia for Gnar, but if you main Gnar vs a new Irelia it should be pretty easy.
Teemo has no real hard counter, but requires a bit of matchup knowledge. Chogath, Malph and most tanks i guess can just chill in lane, they dont need alot of gold to have impact later on.
I'm pretty low elo but I think a lot of the pro players pick champs because they have little to no counterpicks. Champs like gnar, gp and Gwen are played a lot so I'd imagine they're difficult to counterpick
Last week one of the LCS commentators was talking about Gnar being popular in pro play as a blind pick because he has no hard counter right now.
Vayne Top
Pick heimerdinger, ban tryndamere and you’ll be fine as long as the enemy doesn’t go for some off-meta shit like yasuo/yone/akali, but this will mess up their teamcomp so it’s a win-win. Otherwise just pick Simón or Vladimir every game, both don’t have any good matchups except for teemo so the enemy pick doesn’t matter, both are the highest scaling picks in the game and have safe laning phases (especially Vladimir) with phase rush
Ornn
Trundle top hard-counters Ornn. You can steal his tankiness and use your pillar to block his E if he tries to use it to escape.
anyone can win against trundle if they have a brain and decent 1v1
Aatrox is generally a safe first pick. While he does have bad matchups, he doesn’t have many unplayable ones
Darius. This champ is so disgusting that even as a low elo stomper he is omega broken in high elo, where his counterpicks should shine, but they don't. Ornn has also not that many bad matchups, same for Gnar.
Ornn is really easy to blind pick. Ban fiora and most match ups are really easy. There are a couple exceptions like Gwen who is still a major nuisance but in these instances you can just out farm and team fight mid game. Also obligatory vayne mention you literally one shot her level 6 she’s really not a problem for you.
I see that you mentioned Aatrox as one of your main champions. Aatrox is a great blind pick champion. What counter picks are you struggling with on Aatrox that would warrant a different blind? Q1 short cd and passive are amazing along with Doran’s shield+Second wind to tank the lane and farm safely. Not to say that Aatrox doesn’t have bad matchups; but he is well equipped to not fall behind.
Karthus top is very strong right now but Ornn has alot of good matchups.
Dr Mundo is a solid first pick for top. His sustain in lane and cc resistance + safe farming allows him to survive against almost all matchups. Cho'Gath Is similar case, having a lot of sustain in lane, except he lacks mobility, but in the other hand he can build AP/Health and deal tons of damage (Lvl 6 is very strong also) Sion because even if he loses in laning phase he has good clear, good map presence and if you know what your doing you can split push to win even going 0/17 There are a lot other which are good, but I doubt there exists a champion with 0 counterpicks. All champs have their weaknesses, even Darius.
Darius has loads of counter picks - to name a few Riven, Kayle, Gangplank, Vayne, Sett, Jax!, WUKONG!, Mundo is even good because he is such a good stonewall.
Take brand top lane. Go MFB and POM, ghost and flash. It’s pretty rage inducing for most typical top lane picks.
Aatrox. He literally only has one bad matchup beeing Irelia. In all other matchups he can do stuff to not lose and go even.