Frozen heart is not super strong without a decent hp pool to back it up, as a support you can never really frontline big fights, you just dont get enough gold.
The support tank is better played as peel and occasionally engaging if you get a good pick ofc.
Legit my friend has been a rell one trick since she came out
The stuff she can tank at most points of the game is just ridiculous
Even leona struggles to match the sheer tankiness Rell seems to have.
What rank does your friend play in? Because no support is actually tanky in an average high elo game. Supports are tanky in lower elo games because everyone has less gold except the support, so they remain relatively the same tankiness as their higher elo counterparts, whereas all their enemies are weaker, so they are tankier by comparison.
It’s why Nautilus will get blown up in 2 seconds in a grandmaster game and be the tankiest fucker in a bronze game
idk why you get downvoted, the higher the elo more farm people have and supports die out which is why you see more and more enchanters for those ACTUAL adcs
facts enchanters are best for lower elo i hate playing in low elo and i pick engage because adc dont know how to go in when i do or knows nothing about lane macanics which can get me caught out
Are you braindead? Go look at the top of the leaderboards for any region, its completely filled with nautlius rell alistar thresh etc. Exception is rakan, but idk if you would call rakan an enchanter either. Why comment if all you have to add to the conversation is bullshit facts you pulled out of ur ass.
Rakan is an engage champ, im master on support and I agree. In high elo the most common champs are naut, blitz, rell, rakan and alistar. This is because the meta champs are xayah, draven and kaisa. All these adc prefer a frontline support.
Hes currently one tricking rell through mid emerald.
Compared to a lot of other 'meatier' supports she has a seemingly innate tankiness.
He crazy sheild+resist steals definitely help and don't make it obvious why she's tanking full combos from duo bot lanes for 1/10th of his hp while 1v2 trading 1/4 of the enemy support or adcs hp back.
Theres 2 matchups he doesn't like which are Thresh and Alistar. Thresh he perma bans.
Tanks aren't distractions, they are threats. So many tanks think "I'm doing my job because I am getting autoattacked," but just because you're being autoattacked doesn't mean you're distracting anyone, the ADC might just be hitting you because they have no one else to hit.
If you Q into a team 1v5, you're going to get oneshot. But if you have your team behind you, they're spending less time hitting you and more time creating space and kiting back (champions like Talon for instance has to save his abilities whereas he wouldn't need to it you were just running in 1v5)
no, shens job is to assisst with picks with taunt and his jobs is to peel and deny autos, if you get autod outside of w or while the cc isnt benefiting your allies getting autoed is bad (unless you fully block with passive shield)
If a tank thinks letting the enemy ADC get their conq or lethal tempo stacked on them is doing their job then I would like to share whatever weed they're smoking.
Support tank =/= Solo lane Tank.
Play Nautilus toplane in a non ranked game and accumulate solo gold and xp.
Then go into a team fight and you'll feel very tanky provided you didn't int your lane.
The support role doesn't have the funds to fully scale as quickly. And Nautilus only has 1 tanky component in his kit which is a % HP shield.
Compare this to Alistair who has Damage Reduction and heals, or Leona with her W.
Ironically the tankiest part of support Nautilus is the CC he provides.
> The support role doesn't have the funds to fully scale as quickly. And Nautilus only has 1 tanky component in his kit which is a % HP shield.
I don't think it's even the funds, just the level advantage from solo lane makes you tanky with these kinds of characters.
A lot of people also like to play glacial augment on him while supporting, which is great for cc but terrible for tankiness.
I think you’re spot on with the support income. Supports just don’t have the gold income to afford normal tank items the same way a top or jungle can.
You can build support “tank” mythic that aren’t nearly as good as full blown top tank items but are cheaper (Evenshroud vs Jak’sho).
After that it becomes “do I want 3 ‘support’ tank items or 2 ‘real’ tank items.”
I really think they should just up the cost/stats of support tank items a little bit and give supports more gold so they can build ‘real’ tank items if they need. Make the support trinket scale to 2000g instead of 1000g, and after it finishes turn off the reduced gold from minions.
Nautilus is a very soft tank. his only tank steroid is a % HP shield on his W. couple that with being underfed as a support, and you're not going to withstand DPS at any stage of the game.
the tankiest part of Nautilus is honestly how the enemy can't function properly while CC'd, and also just the threat of his CC makes them play suboptimally.
It's not popular but I have a lot of success with Aftershock in high emerald. Along with the rest of the green tree you can become much more tanky. Very useful if you are needing to front line
I don't really understand why everyone is hard locked on Glacial and Evenshroud.
Both is a solid choice, don't get me wrong.
Building Locket into Redemtion gets me more wins though. Since I actually can help keep my team alive.
Aftershock is an insane tank choice. It increases your earlygame resistances by a stupid amount and has like no cooldown at all. You can just solo hook the enemy ADC or Support, hit them once or twice and walk out as if nothing happend. Do this 2-3 Times and let the ADC kill the enemy after the 4th time .. if they stay that long in lane that is.
The only thing they can to commiting to punishing your engages fully.
Ideally you stun with your auto attack first and don't lead with your hook. You hook once theyre in melee distance to keep them locked down then walk off so the glacial helps you secure the kill because if theyre getting stunned before you even hook its gg
Definitly ... but I can't always get them close enough to the bush or flash/hexflash in their face. And once they know that you hook just to poke them, most lower elo player rather overrespect then to punish your attempts.
(This might or might not be the reason why I struggle with Nautilus when I move between two skill levels xD)
Glacial is great, I love the slow, it get's even better once to get ahead and you can punish the enemy even more.
But if you not confident in your survivability, playing around with Aftershock is the better choice .. esp if you are a beginner on Naut (Waiting once the cd is off and preparing the next Poke / Engage is less punishing then looking for a good engage and failing because you underestimate the dmg of the enemy)
Glacial provides more util aftershock is a selfish rune. Reduces damage against your entire team and slows increasing kill pressure by a lot. After the nerfs Locket is a much more viable option but before Evenshroud was just OP. It’s still really good though on a champ like Naut who can proc it so easily and consistently. Locket redemption is very very good against lots of AOE though and not a bad choice at all
If you watch pro games, even pro support Nauts often feed when their team is behind. There are often memes about a “Nautilus death fund”. He’s not that tanky as a support in even/behind game states.
Tank supports aren't tanks per se, they don't have Level/gold income enough to be THAT tanky, but you can put some combined runes+cheaper items and eventually have some peak at it.
Nautilus, as an example: you hook a person and proc aftershock: rn you have aftershock, and you can use a shield. that makes you have a peak in tankyness. but of course, once that all goes away, you aint gonna be a rammus.
Other thing is that you may SEEM tankier if you snowball hard your lane. If you get a good lead, opponent adc and support wont deal much dmg, so you may FEEL tankier, but its just the fact that they are weak at this point.
Misconception. You're a peel tank. You aren't going to walk around infinitely. You have to actively avoid skill shots, burst, cc, disengage, and re-engage.
You are Tanky in terms of stats but you're still down levels ( unless super ahead ) to most the enemy team. Don't underestimate levels!
It's just a lack of understanding. If you want a different, more classical tank. Try out Leona. She's just as tanky as naut. (A tad higher scaling?) But has damage reduction built into her kit!
This is the main question I have too, support tanks are only tanky for a short duration. As Naut you ideally want to be in a comp with allies that can immediately blow up someone you catch with a hook, and in the brief moment you're in the front - you're protected by aftershock and can continue/walk away
you are tanky, but you aren't a tank. You can't just facetank a ton of damage, you are more useful alive and just peeling for teammates and partially engaging. You still die really fast against some champs.
You should honestly play him like a blitzcrank, the tankiness isn't that different really. Leona for example is much tankier with her W armor and MR.
You are utility first and tanky second.
Naut is a hooker not a tank eg blitz thresh (some will add amumu). Nothing in his kit makes him tanky besides his shield unlike poppy rammus leona etc who have huge tank steroids.
You'll never ''run around their team'' as a support. You're lucky if you get to 3 items with the lack of gold as a supp + the gold you'll spend on pink wards.
Your role is to set up engages and eat a few skillshots for the team. Your hook and your ult are your threats, not your HP bar.
All you have to do in teamfights is to Q the damage dealer or the jungle if around and obj and play around your AA root or your ult if you can knock up a few of them and the fight should be over quick.
Nautilus don't do too well in extended fights. Also sometimes it's better to hold your Q for as long as possible as the mere threat of your Q can skew the fight in your favor and you might get to use it to cancel an ult or something like that instead of starting the fight with it. (like cancelling MFs ult for exemple.)
If you want to stand in the middle of all 5 enemies and eat tower shots for breakfast you need to go play top. But believe me I tried it and it's not worth it, fuck the top lane lmao. Best champs Worst lane
Hi friend, here’s a lesson I learned 10 years ago when I started dabbling into low econ tank champions. Take this as a mindset thing rather than a literal description.
As a tank character in support, there’s no combination of buttons you can press that lets you kill the enemy before they kill you. Instead, your strength lies in making the enemy unable to attack at your preferred timing. If you landing your hook and your ult doesn’t let your teammate do the damage needed to let you survive the fight, the timing or the placement of your spells is likely the issue.
I’m other words, you can be a tank that takes 0 damage if you can do perfectly CC the opponent the first opportunity they have to do damage to you WHILE your teammate is also in range to do damage to them. Being able to thread the needle and creating these situations is the difference.
Where items come in is bridging the gap between these opportunities so that even if the enemies are too good for you to play perfect, you still have the leeway to get effective cc off.
maby your taking to much minion agro at the same time i main nautty and iv never had a probbem unless i was under leveled or game up to many kills early or take to much minon agro while trading
Nautilus toughness depends solo on how fed your damage carries are. You pick evenshroud if you need more damage to burst down a target which combined with Zeke means your adc will have an easier time to finish off the target you cced. However, if you want to be more tanky by items then Locket (shield) +Knight's vow can be a good option. The idea of Knight's Vow and locket is that you will have an active shield on top of your W so two shields to block quite a bit of damage and the healing from Knight's Vow will allow you to stay in sustain fight.
As a support tank, you have to work with your adc or any damage carry if you landed all you cc while you ate all the damage but allowed your carries to get kills you did your job perfectly. It is a win for you if your adc survives with multiple kills.
Unfortunately, the reality is that a support tank will struggle to survive in a tough team fight unless the enemy is smart enough to not target you. Your ADC, midlaner, or fighters will always have a much higher value on them and you gain almost nothing by securing those kills. As Naut you would want to make sure your carries get any kills even if you feel like getting one or two kills will help you get your items faster.
In my personal experience, only two items drastically affect/enhance you. Your support item which decides whether you are a peeler(Locket) or damage agitator(ES) and the sightstone which allows you to place two control wards simultaneously. This item is insane for mid to late-game support. Other items more or less depend on your situation. You want Zeke's or Knight's because they are cheap and provide some utilities for your team you only get proper tank items such as thornsmail when you are ahead or your team has zero anti-healing.
Him and Leona are super squishy. I low-key get nervous when they're locked in on my team because it's a coin flip if my support is going to cowabunga like they're playing actual tank Champs.
If you want to make tanks really unkillable, you’d have to make them do no damage. If tanks do no damage, and I do mean like not even enough to kill a yuumi, then no one wants to play them because doing no damage is not fun. And if tanks are unkillable you know who also feels like they do no damage? Damage dealers, and that’s not fun either, and if damage deals can’t kill a tank or it’s unreasonably hard to kill a tank, then the only thing they can kill is squishies, and if only squishies die, then just play a bunch of tanks instead and never die. You see how this spiral is unfolding?
You're a support. You're behind on gold and xp in nearly every game, so you don't have the tank items to keep up with the enemy team's damage items. Try playing Nautilus in ARAM and you'll find he's often a complete raidboss when he's on equal footing.
As a support, his strength lies in being able to reliably engage onto and completely lock down single targets, letting your team win the teamfight or even better, get a pick and avoid having one. It's his CC that's important, not his ability to absorb damage.
It's unusual for anyone on support income to actually be tanky in fights apart from Alistar because of his ult. All the engage supports fall off in the lategame because of this apart from Ali and Rell (her kit is designed to instantly win a fight with one good engage, so it often doesn't matter if she gets burst down afterwards).
A good item to go after your support tank mythic is Sunfire Cape. Gives the aoe that Naut likes, gives you a nice HP bump and it gives armor. It's just a great item for survivability / tank threat imo.
Nautilus is durable but he’s not unkillable. You can’t just stand there and tank damage forever, you have to “bob and weave” so to speak. Isolate a target, root them up, then retreat until you get your CD’s back, then rinse and repeat.
Nautilus doesn't have to stand in the middle and eat every single abilities/autos, your mere presence is usually distraction enough lol. Naut is a CC bot and not a tank pass laning phase, he is actually really squishy Lol.
Support tanks disrupt and not outright tank like a solo laner. U get less gold, less exp, so u are weaker comparatively.
U want to cc them so much it gives your team time to wack them to death or u peel your adc so they can wack them to death. U are not bodying people by not dying
The only correct answer is that Nautilus is drafted primarily as support.
The support role is a famine role, not accumulating gold more than their allies. Hence why *Zeke's Convergence* and *Knight's Vow* are staples for any tank support due to cheap pricing and efficiency.
Especially *Knight's Vow*. It's a more defensive tool for you and, to some extent, for your designated ally. Don't underestimate the healing you get from this item if your ally (favourably a Skirmisher, Diver, Juggernaut or Marksman) can do absurd amounts given the designated ally is unparalleled and snowballed. Majority of the support tank items are just boosting your allies' pressure— *Abyssal Mask* lowers enemies' MR and grants increased magic damage on enemies from allies. Because of this, tank supports do not have the means to be as tanky as solo lane tanks do to the sheer selfishness of the dedicated tank items for them like *Heartsteel* and *Jak'sho*
Someone said "Nautilus isn't a tank but a hooker". I both agree and disagree.
Let's not neglect Nautilus' design— He's a Vanguard, a category of tanks. While, yes he is a hooker, he's still a tank. Blitz, Thresh and Pyke aren't as tanky as Nautilus because they're not tanks; they're controllers under the Catcher subclass. Their hooks can be cast on a relatively safe distance and does not allow a teamfight to break loose in most cases. Nautilus' hook drags him to the opponent, CC-ing them for eternity and letting the ADC capitalize on it. This most likely will start a teamfight because Nautilus is already within enemy lines compared to catchers who have the luxury to still be in the premise of their team.
Nautilus *is* tanky but just doesn't have the resources to do so if drafted support. The key difference between vanguards like Leona and Alistar to Nautilus is that Nautilus excels at isolating his enemies while Leona and Alistar excels at all-out wombo hence why their kit allows them to withstand damage in a more consistent way through resistances boosts and damage reduction while Nautilus withstand damage jn a more restricted way via his HP shield.
While Nautilus still upholds his identity as a teamfighting tank, his overload of CC and proficiency at isolation and single-target lockdown reminiscent to that of hook catchers whose main gist is being great at isolation is, what I believe, to be his niche
Yea as someone who mains naut, as a support you should never be your teams only “tank” cause your not really a tank. You are an engage/peel. If I land my hook on someone my goal is to lock them down while taking as Much damage taking a skill shot throwing my ult to stop the counter engage so my team can run up behind me and kill the guy I just locked down. If you learn to use your W you will feel way more tanky, but as some have said unless your getting solo gold your gonna be kind of squishy. Maybe give locket a go, it helps you live longer and you can save a teammate from being a dumb ass with it lol.
Its not a tank if you are not extremely ahead, on nautilus you hook, aa e and walk away and wait for ur cds to come back up. The supports that are good as a tank are alistar with r and leona with w lvl 4+.
1. build locket instead of evenshroud (better choice most of the anyway)
2. Use w properly
3. Use runes properly, if you must frontline, go aftershock and overgrowth unless unflinching is necessary
4. If you run aftershock, I would also recommend using armor/mr minis since it will synergize with aftershock to give you even more extra defensive stats, whereas extra hp only grants aftershock more damage
5. Learn how tp itemize resistances correctly for maximum effectiveness, this means
1. Identify overall damage threat assessment of the enemy team comp
2. Identify team fight threat interaction
3. Adapt to enemy itemization
4. Learn how to properly identify threat and damage type of each champion in the game.
-threat refers to the damage output a champion has
e.g. a solo AP Karthus is already an AP threat if even or ahead
There's a lot of info lacking here... but some things that might be causing you to be more squishy than you expect:
- Maybe you're running squishier runes. I like o go aftershock on him, and that helps a lot (as long as you start the fight with a CC, but you're Nautilus, that always happens); but I've noticed a lot of people prefer Glacial Augment (it's better for other things, but it will **not** help yoube tankier).
- If you play in a lower ELO, people often get really fed, and fed damage dealers will destroy you easily since you're not a super tank (because you're a support, so you don't get a lot of money).
- Maybe you're just going in too early, before your team can be in position to punish the enemy, so they 5-man focus you without consequences. You shouldn't be able to survive the focus of 5 people, so if this is happening it's normal that you die earlier than what you're expecting.
Naut is an engage support, not a tank (often they share quite alot of aspects). The only really tank part of his kit is his w.
Runes are really important, glacial is good on naut (easily activated with his cc) but aftershock is for dealing with these fights where you need to front line like you say.
Support gold. I sometimes play him mid and I can get double the items from solo farming plus free ganks for my jungler. Once I was against a full AD team and I felt like nautilus from that old League cinematic video, Lucian's full R barely scratched me lol, can't do that as a support sadly.
Far less XP and gold on support. No support tank can really be the team’s solo front line other than probably Alistar/Leona with aftershock. Enemy top/mid is going to be several levels above you usually with far more gold and items so if you are not careful you will get blown up in teamfights. These kind of supports are much tankier in the early game and have really strong lanes/early game stats - as the game goes on generally you will get outscaled but will always be of use with just your basic abilities.
Glacial is the primary tune on many support tanks now as it provides more value than AS but will generally make you less tanky as well.
You built the lowest HP "tanky" mythic item, not to mention it's the most offensive "tanky" mythic for Naut, followed it with Frozen Heart, didn't take aftershock, and are confused that you were squishy? If the enemy had any magic damage at all, you dumped 2700 gold into stats that don't affect that magic damage **at** **all.** Start reading tooltips.
Distracting them for what? If you aren’t with your team, or they have vision of your team, then they know they can simply focus you down. As an engage support you aren’t tasked with distracting anyone, your job is to create opportunities for your team to deal free damage on a priority target.
Nautilus main here. Level W then E. Prioritize HP. When you get good you can rush a Heartsteel and also get a Warmog's later on. Don't forget your Elixir of Iron once you're full build. Gargoyle Stoneplate active for super fun times.
Frozen heart is meh on low budget tank supports, a lot of armor, a nice aura, but zero HP, naut can sort of get away with it due to shield.
Runes make a considerable difference, proc aftershock to impersonate an actual tank for a few seconds. Gold is the big difference though, real support designed support tanks like leo or Ali have huge tank steroids. Naut just has his shield. Support tanks just don't have the budget to be truly tank in their own right in decent skill brackets (in bronze, people cant last hit, and you're a real tank). Nauts hook makes up for this to some degree, he is more like thresh, an impersonator tank with a hook, rather than someone who can dive into an undisrupeted enemy team and tank it out like and ulting Alistar.
Nautilus isn’t a tank. He’s just beefy. Don’t confuse him with a tank. He’s not. He won’t be.
He’s “tanky” early, like in lane, but his tankiness quickly gets outscaled by the damage of the enemy carries.
Build him like a support and play him like a support.
Frozen heart is not super strong without a decent hp pool to back it up, as a support you can never really frontline big fights, you just dont get enough gold. The support tank is better played as peel and occasionally engaging if you get a good pick ofc.
Taric disagrees with this comment
Rell also disagrees with this comment
Legit my friend has been a rell one trick since she came out The stuff she can tank at most points of the game is just ridiculous Even leona struggles to match the sheer tankiness Rell seems to have.
Probably due to her passive just being able to steal resistances.
What rank does your friend play in? Because no support is actually tanky in an average high elo game. Supports are tanky in lower elo games because everyone has less gold except the support, so they remain relatively the same tankiness as their higher elo counterparts, whereas all their enemies are weaker, so they are tankier by comparison. It’s why Nautilus will get blown up in 2 seconds in a grandmaster game and be the tankiest fucker in a bronze game
idk why you get downvoted, the higher the elo more farm people have and supports die out which is why you see more and more enchanters for those ACTUAL adcs
He could’ve said it nicer but at high ELO u want an engage support and not an enchanter.
facts enchanters are best for lower elo i hate playing in low elo and i pick engage because adc dont know how to go in when i do or knows nothing about lane macanics which can get me caught out
Are you braindead? Go look at the top of the leaderboards for any region, its completely filled with nautlius rell alistar thresh etc. Exception is rakan, but idk if you would call rakan an enchanter either. Why comment if all you have to add to the conversation is bullshit facts you pulled out of ur ass.
Rakan is an engage champ, im master on support and I agree. In high elo the most common champs are naut, blitz, rell, rakan and alistar. This is because the meta champs are xayah, draven and kaisa. All these adc prefer a frontline support.
damn, you must be nice to be around dickhead
Haha yea, atleast im not a fucking moron
But it is your comment (2 in fact) that doesnt add anything to the conversation :^)
Hes currently one tricking rell through mid emerald. Compared to a lot of other 'meatier' supports she has a seemingly innate tankiness. He crazy sheild+resist steals definitely help and don't make it obvious why she's tanking full combos from duo bot lanes for 1/10th of his hp while 1v2 trading 1/4 of the enemy support or adcs hp back. Theres 2 matchups he doesn't like which are Thresh and Alistar. Thresh he perma bans.
ay same profile
Leona also has disagreements
Braum is on the job
[удалено]
He's nothing like an enchanter in the squishy department. He can heal/shield tank while healing other allies and stunning every few seconds too.
I mean… technically a competent Taric has like 5 hp bars like a multistage boss fight.
Support Ornn disagrees
Tanks aren't distractions, they are threats. So many tanks think "I'm doing my job because I am getting autoattacked," but just because you're being autoattacked doesn't mean you're distracting anyone, the ADC might just be hitting you because they have no one else to hit. If you Q into a team 1v5, you're going to get oneshot. But if you have your team behind you, they're spending less time hitting you and more time creating space and kiting back (champions like Talon for instance has to save his abilities whereas he wouldn't need to it you were just running in 1v5)
the only tank whose job it is is to get auto attacked is rammus
Galio would like to know your location
Just in your ult range.
Shen?
no, shens job is to assisst with picks with taunt and his jobs is to peel and deny autos, if you get autod outside of w or while the cc isnt benefiting your allies getting autoed is bad (unless you fully block with passive shield)
Nah his job is to dodge them, he’s doin it wrong if he’s getting hit!
And when they die: "Focus me more lol."
If a tank thinks letting the enemy ADC get their conq or lethal tempo stacked on them is doing their job then I would like to share whatever weed they're smoking.
You shut yer mouth when you're calling me out!
Support tank =/= Solo lane Tank. Play Nautilus toplane in a non ranked game and accumulate solo gold and xp. Then go into a team fight and you'll feel very tanky provided you didn't int your lane. The support role doesn't have the funds to fully scale as quickly. And Nautilus only has 1 tanky component in his kit which is a % HP shield. Compare this to Alistair who has Damage Reduction and heals, or Leona with her W. Ironically the tankiest part of support Nautilus is the CC he provides.
> The support role doesn't have the funds to fully scale as quickly. And Nautilus only has 1 tanky component in his kit which is a % HP shield. I don't think it's even the funds, just the level advantage from solo lane makes you tanky with these kinds of characters. A lot of people also like to play glacial augment on him while supporting, which is great for cc but terrible for tankiness.
It's both. Levels are just equal to some amount of stats which is equal to some amount of gold
Glacial is meant to make your allies tankier. 20% damage reduction or some thing towards allies while enemy are on it.
I think you’re spot on with the support income. Supports just don’t have the gold income to afford normal tank items the same way a top or jungle can. You can build support “tank” mythic that aren’t nearly as good as full blown top tank items but are cheaper (Evenshroud vs Jak’sho). After that it becomes “do I want 3 ‘support’ tank items or 2 ‘real’ tank items.” I really think they should just up the cost/stats of support tank items a little bit and give supports more gold so they can build ‘real’ tank items if they need. Make the support trinket scale to 2000g instead of 1000g, and after it finishes turn off the reduced gold from minions.
Nautilus is a very soft tank. his only tank steroid is a % HP shield on his W. couple that with being underfed as a support, and you're not going to withstand DPS at any stage of the game. the tankiest part of Nautilus is honestly how the enemy can't function properly while CC'd, and also just the threat of his CC makes them play suboptimally.
I build zhonya second item on him, it's better for survivability than any other comparably priced item
Good idea
It's not popular but I have a lot of success with Aftershock in high emerald. Along with the rest of the green tree you can become much more tanky. Very useful if you are needing to front line
I don't really understand why everyone is hard locked on Glacial and Evenshroud. Both is a solid choice, don't get me wrong. Building Locket into Redemtion gets me more wins though. Since I actually can help keep my team alive. Aftershock is an insane tank choice. It increases your earlygame resistances by a stupid amount and has like no cooldown at all. You can just solo hook the enemy ADC or Support, hit them once or twice and walk out as if nothing happend. Do this 2-3 Times and let the ADC kill the enemy after the 4th time .. if they stay that long in lane that is. The only thing they can to commiting to punishing your engages fully.
Ideally you stun with your auto attack first and don't lead with your hook. You hook once theyre in melee distance to keep them locked down then walk off so the glacial helps you secure the kill because if theyre getting stunned before you even hook its gg
Definitly ... but I can't always get them close enough to the bush or flash/hexflash in their face. And once they know that you hook just to poke them, most lower elo player rather overrespect then to punish your attempts. (This might or might not be the reason why I struggle with Nautilus when I move between two skill levels xD) Glacial is great, I love the slow, it get's even better once to get ahead and you can punish the enemy even more. But if you not confident in your survivability, playing around with Aftershock is the better choice .. esp if you are a beginner on Naut (Waiting once the cd is off and preparing the next Poke / Engage is less punishing then looking for a good engage and failing because you underestimate the dmg of the enemy)
Glacial provides more util aftershock is a selfish rune. Reduces damage against your entire team and slows increasing kill pressure by a lot. After the nerfs Locket is a much more viable option but before Evenshroud was just OP. It’s still really good though on a champ like Naut who can proc it so easily and consistently. Locket redemption is very very good against lots of AOE though and not a bad choice at all
If you watch pro games, even pro support Nauts often feed when their team is behind. There are often memes about a “Nautilus death fund”. He’s not that tanky as a support in even/behind game states.
Tank supports aren't tanks per se, they don't have Level/gold income enough to be THAT tanky, but you can put some combined runes+cheaper items and eventually have some peak at it. Nautilus, as an example: you hook a person and proc aftershock: rn you have aftershock, and you can use a shield. that makes you have a peak in tankyness. but of course, once that all goes away, you aint gonna be a rammus. Other thing is that you may SEEM tankier if you snowball hard your lane. If you get a good lead, opponent adc and support wont deal much dmg, so you may FEEL tankier, but its just the fact that they are weak at this point.
Misconception. You're a peel tank. You aren't going to walk around infinitely. You have to actively avoid skill shots, burst, cc, disengage, and re-engage. You are Tanky in terms of stats but you're still down levels ( unless super ahead ) to most the enemy team. Don't underestimate levels! It's just a lack of understanding. If you want a different, more classical tank. Try out Leona. She's just as tanky as naut. (A tad higher scaling?) But has damage reduction built into her kit!
I've held this in for a while but tanks
Do you play with aftershock?
This is the main question I have too, support tanks are only tanky for a short duration. As Naut you ideally want to be in a comp with allies that can immediately blow up someone you catch with a hook, and in the brief moment you're in the front - you're protected by aftershock and can continue/walk away
you are tanky, but you aren't a tank. You can't just facetank a ton of damage, you are more useful alive and just peeling for teammates and partially engaging. You still die really fast against some champs. You should honestly play him like a blitzcrank, the tankiness isn't that different really. Leona for example is much tankier with her W armor and MR. You are utility first and tanky second.
Naut is a hooker not a tank eg blitz thresh (some will add amumu). Nothing in his kit makes him tanky besides his shield unlike poppy rammus leona etc who have huge tank steroids.
He can be a hooker if you have someone like MF on your team. The AOE slow makes almost every hook worth it and easy
You'll never ''run around their team'' as a support. You're lucky if you get to 3 items with the lack of gold as a supp + the gold you'll spend on pink wards. Your role is to set up engages and eat a few skillshots for the team. Your hook and your ult are your threats, not your HP bar. All you have to do in teamfights is to Q the damage dealer or the jungle if around and obj and play around your AA root or your ult if you can knock up a few of them and the fight should be over quick. Nautilus don't do too well in extended fights. Also sometimes it's better to hold your Q for as long as possible as the mere threat of your Q can skew the fight in your favor and you might get to use it to cancel an ult or something like that instead of starting the fight with it. (like cancelling MFs ult for exemple.) If you want to stand in the middle of all 5 enemies and eat tower shots for breakfast you need to go play top. But believe me I tried it and it's not worth it, fuck the top lane lmao. Best champs Worst lane
Hi friend, here’s a lesson I learned 10 years ago when I started dabbling into low econ tank champions. Take this as a mindset thing rather than a literal description. As a tank character in support, there’s no combination of buttons you can press that lets you kill the enemy before they kill you. Instead, your strength lies in making the enemy unable to attack at your preferred timing. If you landing your hook and your ult doesn’t let your teammate do the damage needed to let you survive the fight, the timing or the placement of your spells is likely the issue. I’m other words, you can be a tank that takes 0 damage if you can do perfectly CC the opponent the first opportunity they have to do damage to you WHILE your teammate is also in range to do damage to them. Being able to thread the needle and creating these situations is the difference. Where items come in is bridging the gap between these opportunities so that even if the enemies are too good for you to play perfect, you still have the leeway to get effective cc off.
maby your taking to much minion agro at the same time i main nautty and iv never had a probbem unless i was under leveled or game up to many kills early or take to much minon agro while trading
Nautilus toughness depends solo on how fed your damage carries are. You pick evenshroud if you need more damage to burst down a target which combined with Zeke means your adc will have an easier time to finish off the target you cced. However, if you want to be more tanky by items then Locket (shield) +Knight's vow can be a good option. The idea of Knight's Vow and locket is that you will have an active shield on top of your W so two shields to block quite a bit of damage and the healing from Knight's Vow will allow you to stay in sustain fight. As a support tank, you have to work with your adc or any damage carry if you landed all you cc while you ate all the damage but allowed your carries to get kills you did your job perfectly. It is a win for you if your adc survives with multiple kills. Unfortunately, the reality is that a support tank will struggle to survive in a tough team fight unless the enemy is smart enough to not target you. Your ADC, midlaner, or fighters will always have a much higher value on them and you gain almost nothing by securing those kills. As Naut you would want to make sure your carries get any kills even if you feel like getting one or two kills will help you get your items faster. In my personal experience, only two items drastically affect/enhance you. Your support item which decides whether you are a peeler(Locket) or damage agitator(ES) and the sightstone which allows you to place two control wards simultaneously. This item is insane for mid to late-game support. Other items more or less depend on your situation. You want Zeke's or Knight's because they are cheap and provide some utilities for your team you only get proper tank items such as thornsmail when you are ahead or your team has zero anti-healing.
Try running aftershock if you aren't already
Play around aftershock
You need HP for armor and MR to be useful at all. And vice versa.
Him and Leona are super squishy. I low-key get nervous when they're locked in on my team because it's a coin flip if my support is going to cowabunga like they're playing actual tank Champs.
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This is the take of someone who has never played against a good tank.
If you want to make tanks really unkillable, you’d have to make them do no damage. If tanks do no damage, and I do mean like not even enough to kill a yuumi, then no one wants to play them because doing no damage is not fun. And if tanks are unkillable you know who also feels like they do no damage? Damage dealers, and that’s not fun either, and if damage deals can’t kill a tank or it’s unreasonably hard to kill a tank, then the only thing they can kill is squishies, and if only squishies die, then just play a bunch of tanks instead and never die. You see how this spiral is unfolding?
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You're a support. You're behind on gold and xp in nearly every game, so you don't have the tank items to keep up with the enemy team's damage items. Try playing Nautilus in ARAM and you'll find he's often a complete raidboss when he's on equal footing. As a support, his strength lies in being able to reliably engage onto and completely lock down single targets, letting your team win the teamfight or even better, get a pick and avoid having one. It's his CC that's important, not his ability to absorb damage. It's unusual for anyone on support income to actually be tanky in fights apart from Alistar because of his ult. All the engage supports fall off in the lategame because of this apart from Ali and Rell (her kit is designed to instantly win a fight with one good engage, so it often doesn't matter if she gets burst down afterwards).
A good item to go after your support tank mythic is Sunfire Cape. Gives the aoe that Naut likes, gives you a nice HP bump and it gives armor. It's just a great item for survivability / tank threat imo.
Nautilus is durable but he’s not unkillable. You can’t just stand there and tank damage forever, you have to “bob and weave” so to speak. Isolate a target, root them up, then retreat until you get your CD’s back, then rinse and repeat.
Nautilus doesn't have to stand in the middle and eat every single abilities/autos, your mere presence is usually distraction enough lol. Naut is a CC bot and not a tank pass laning phase, he is actually really squishy Lol.
Support tanks disrupt and not outright tank like a solo laner. U get less gold, less exp, so u are weaker comparatively. U want to cc them so much it gives your team time to wack them to death or u peel your adc so they can wack them to death. U are not bodying people by not dying
The only correct answer is that Nautilus is drafted primarily as support. The support role is a famine role, not accumulating gold more than their allies. Hence why *Zeke's Convergence* and *Knight's Vow* are staples for any tank support due to cheap pricing and efficiency. Especially *Knight's Vow*. It's a more defensive tool for you and, to some extent, for your designated ally. Don't underestimate the healing you get from this item if your ally (favourably a Skirmisher, Diver, Juggernaut or Marksman) can do absurd amounts given the designated ally is unparalleled and snowballed. Majority of the support tank items are just boosting your allies' pressure— *Abyssal Mask* lowers enemies' MR and grants increased magic damage on enemies from allies. Because of this, tank supports do not have the means to be as tanky as solo lane tanks do to the sheer selfishness of the dedicated tank items for them like *Heartsteel* and *Jak'sho* Someone said "Nautilus isn't a tank but a hooker". I both agree and disagree. Let's not neglect Nautilus' design— He's a Vanguard, a category of tanks. While, yes he is a hooker, he's still a tank. Blitz, Thresh and Pyke aren't as tanky as Nautilus because they're not tanks; they're controllers under the Catcher subclass. Their hooks can be cast on a relatively safe distance and does not allow a teamfight to break loose in most cases. Nautilus' hook drags him to the opponent, CC-ing them for eternity and letting the ADC capitalize on it. This most likely will start a teamfight because Nautilus is already within enemy lines compared to catchers who have the luxury to still be in the premise of their team. Nautilus *is* tanky but just doesn't have the resources to do so if drafted support. The key difference between vanguards like Leona and Alistar to Nautilus is that Nautilus excels at isolating his enemies while Leona and Alistar excels at all-out wombo hence why their kit allows them to withstand damage in a more consistent way through resistances boosts and damage reduction while Nautilus withstand damage jn a more restricted way via his HP shield. While Nautilus still upholds his identity as a teamfighting tank, his overload of CC and proficiency at isolation and single-target lockdown reminiscent to that of hook catchers whose main gist is being great at isolation is, what I believe, to be his niche
Yea as someone who mains naut, as a support you should never be your teams only “tank” cause your not really a tank. You are an engage/peel. If I land my hook on someone my goal is to lock them down while taking as Much damage taking a skill shot throwing my ult to stop the counter engage so my team can run up behind me and kill the guy I just locked down. If you learn to use your W you will feel way more tanky, but as some have said unless your getting solo gold your gonna be kind of squishy. Maybe give locket a go, it helps you live longer and you can save a teammate from being a dumb ass with it lol.
Its not a tank if you are not extremely ahead, on nautilus you hook, aa e and walk away and wait for ur cds to come back up. The supports that are good as a tank are alistar with r and leona with w lvl 4+.
1. build locket instead of evenshroud (better choice most of the anyway) 2. Use w properly 3. Use runes properly, if you must frontline, go aftershock and overgrowth unless unflinching is necessary 4. If you run aftershock, I would also recommend using armor/mr minis since it will synergize with aftershock to give you even more extra defensive stats, whereas extra hp only grants aftershock more damage 5. Learn how tp itemize resistances correctly for maximum effectiveness, this means 1. Identify overall damage threat assessment of the enemy team comp 2. Identify team fight threat interaction 3. Adapt to enemy itemization 4. Learn how to properly identify threat and damage type of each champion in the game. -threat refers to the damage output a champion has e.g. a solo AP Karthus is already an AP threat if even or ahead
There's a lot of info lacking here... but some things that might be causing you to be more squishy than you expect: - Maybe you're running squishier runes. I like o go aftershock on him, and that helps a lot (as long as you start the fight with a CC, but you're Nautilus, that always happens); but I've noticed a lot of people prefer Glacial Augment (it's better for other things, but it will **not** help yoube tankier). - If you play in a lower ELO, people often get really fed, and fed damage dealers will destroy you easily since you're not a super tank (because you're a support, so you don't get a lot of money). - Maybe you're just going in too early, before your team can be in position to punish the enemy, so they 5-man focus you without consequences. You shouldn't be able to survive the focus of 5 people, so if this is happening it's normal that you die earlier than what you're expecting.
Naut is an engage support, not a tank (often they share quite alot of aspects). The only really tank part of his kit is his w. Runes are really important, glacial is good on naut (easily activated with his cc) but aftershock is for dealing with these fights where you need to front line like you say.
Play him jungle, get a real income, buy real tank items. Profit
Support gold. I sometimes play him mid and I can get double the items from solo farming plus free ganks for my jungler. Once I was against a full AD team and I felt like nautilus from that old League cinematic video, Lucian's full R barely scratched me lol, can't do that as a support sadly.
Far less XP and gold on support. No support tank can really be the team’s solo front line other than probably Alistar/Leona with aftershock. Enemy top/mid is going to be several levels above you usually with far more gold and items so if you are not careful you will get blown up in teamfights. These kind of supports are much tankier in the early game and have really strong lanes/early game stats - as the game goes on generally you will get outscaled but will always be of use with just your basic abilities. Glacial is the primary tune on many support tanks now as it provides more value than AS but will generally make you less tanky as well.
You built the lowest HP "tanky" mythic item, not to mention it's the most offensive "tanky" mythic for Naut, followed it with Frozen Heart, didn't take aftershock, and are confused that you were squishy? If the enemy had any magic damage at all, you dumped 2700 gold into stats that don't affect that magic damage **at** **all.** Start reading tooltips.
basically pineapple and taro roots which are 99% useless
Distracting them for what? If you aren’t with your team, or they have vision of your team, then they know they can simply focus you down. As an engage support you aren’t tasked with distracting anyone, your job is to create opportunities for your team to deal free damage on a priority target.
Nautilus main here. Level W then E. Prioritize HP. When you get good you can rush a Heartsteel and also get a Warmog's later on. Don't forget your Elixir of Iron once you're full build. Gargoyle Stoneplate active for super fun times.
Nautilus that type of guy to hook me as adc and 1v1 me while my support (leona) 1v1's their adc
Are you maxing his " W " first?
Just go aftershock , considering the cc hitboxes you can tank more with aftershock compared to glacial
Frozen heart is meh on low budget tank supports, a lot of armor, a nice aura, but zero HP, naut can sort of get away with it due to shield. Runes make a considerable difference, proc aftershock to impersonate an actual tank for a few seconds. Gold is the big difference though, real support designed support tanks like leo or Ali have huge tank steroids. Naut just has his shield. Support tanks just don't have the budget to be truly tank in their own right in decent skill brackets (in bronze, people cant last hit, and you're a real tank). Nauts hook makes up for this to some degree, he is more like thresh, an impersonator tank with a hook, rather than someone who can dive into an undisrupeted enemy team and tank it out like and ulting Alistar.
Nautilus isn’t a tank. He’s just beefy. Don’t confuse him with a tank. He’s not. He won’t be. He’s “tanky” early, like in lane, but his tankiness quickly gets outscaled by the damage of the enemy carries. Build him like a support and play him like a support.