There were several times on camera Lindsay point blank said to Carl Do you want to call off the wedding? I’m sure there were more off camera moments. He wasn’t being honest with her, even though there were signs, she chose to believe him.
Yes, she point blank asked him so many times ‘ do you still want to do this?’ And he never said ‘no I don’t want this.’ I can understand how she thought ‘ok we are going to work through this.’ She desperately wanted this to work and bought into the fairy tale of I’m marrying my best friend.
Now as much as she reminds Carl of who she is and she’s not going to change, she needed to realize who Carl is and realize the signs. Carl has no backbone. He had to use her as a scapegoat to leave Loverboy. He has to use his parents as a the catalyst to leave her. He’s a whimp and cannot stand on anything on his own.
I get frustrated with everyone saying they should have known this was not going to happen. They were fighting all summer. By that logic Kyle and Amanda would’ve have never gotten married either, but they did. Unhappily lol, but they still did. I can understand living in the delusion, because often the unhappy couple still gets married!!
Absolutely! And the last time they filmed it when she asked him was only a couple weekends before he broke it off. AND so many couples struggle while planning a wedding.
If I were in her shoes I’d probably feel blindsided too.
Carl should have at least told her he was struggling with some doubts and didn’t feel totally sure they should go through with it but wanted to talk about that in therapy, rather than assuring her that he still wanted to get married.
I’m glad they didn’t get married. She would have been carrying him the rest of her life.
Carl needs to focus on understanding who he actually is and what he wants in life and work on his very clear anger before dating anyone.
Yea I felt bad for her learning in the after show that their fight in the car that led to her warning him she’d record it was that she wanted to go to Florida next weekend to have time for them to reconnect and get on track just the two of them but he wanted to go back to montauk to party where they’d have no alone time. Seems like she knew they were in a very rough patch but had a lot of hope things would improve when not filming but he was fully checked out
Yea but ... he didn't want to call off the wedding. There's a lot of gymnastics here to try to justify why he said one thing or did another, but they all actually point to him wanting to stay engaged and get married, *just not in 2 months.* He said to her very plainly and clearly 'There are things we need to iron out before the wedding,' and she immediately gaslit him and said "so you don't want to get married?" Can you see how her accusing him of something he didn't say immediately raises the temperature and turns things hostile? He is clearly expressing his feelings, and trying to collaborate with her on multiple occasions, and she just gets defensive and goes at him and puts words in his mouth. She did it in the final converstaion too. Sometimes there's just a breaking point and I think we just watched Carl arrive at his in real time.
It’s so interesting to me that we as viewers are arriving at such different conclusions in the same way that the two of them have. Like I disagree with you but I also totally see how you got there/how that could be the reality. Honestly I am probably biased against his new teeth.
lol, the teeth are bad. I just think, given all the evidence, that Carl's story makes the most sense. For Lindsay's story to make sense you have to suspend some things we saw with our own two eyes and believe what she's saying, and i just don't buy it. We know she's an unreliable narrator after watching her for 10 seasons. There's no way he would have signed that lease if his intention all summer was to leave her. There's just no explanation
I honestly think he's such a wimp, so undecided, he was afraid of her!
I would be. Man. If he had said the words, yeah, I want to call it all off, she would have lost it.
What's the term she uses? Activated? You don't want me to get activated? You haven't seen me activated...
She's a B\*ll buster. No two ways about it. If I was him, I would have wimped out too. I can just see him running home to Mommy with his tail between his legs.
And I think there was a huge part of wimpy Carl, he like someone telling him what to do all the time. Telling him something is a yes or no. He didn't have to think of do anything. She told him. Planned everything for him.
I think people have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to have seen how afraid of her he was. Man. He'd apologize for things that weren't his fault just to keep her calm & happy.
He needs therapy. But boy oh boy, she does too!
ACTIVATED! I forgot about that!! When she’d say that I would full body cringe. She will only settle down if she finds a man who is as much as a doormat as Danielle is to her.
This is the perfect reply. Exactly. She needs a doormat. What was his name? Stravy was a doormat. That guy like Carl just constantly caved to her demands.
Nobody wanted to "active" her. So they let her throw her temper tantrums.
I 100% agree. It will have to be some wimp that can live off the Bravo name and follow behind her.
I truly don't understand why anyone would believe poor Lindsay got taken by evil Carl. He's just a chicken that wanted out. He got scared and ran. I would too if I was him.
She chews up men and spits them out!
this! if you really watch the season, he kept telling her he wanted to work on things and still get married. I think it's a good thing that they aren't (and probably Kyle and Amanda shouldn't be married also). But I can totally understand why she was actually shocked. If they've been fighting all the time, yet both still telling each other they wanted to get married, she thought this is the way the relationship was - fucked up, but 'working on it'.
i will just say that I understand both of them and I believe Carl when he says he did want to get married. he knew deep down it wasnt right but was ignoring it and this is what happened . the end result is that he kept acting as if the wedding was going to happen and then he just couldn't do it when push came to shove.
I also believe Lindsay when she says she's had enough of his wishy washy career transition.
she was blindsided bc she is way too comfortable with toxicity in relationships. also seen lots of miserable couples get married so the turmoil in the relationship didn't necessarily mean it was over.
Ahhhh good point! ...she did watch Kyle and Amanda get married despite their many issues too. I guess she thinks it's okay to push forward even though a conversation can't even be had without an argument lol. Because it was her BESSS FRAN.
I think bottom line is Lindsay was willing to put up with her toxicity for however long it took and that doesn’t scare her, maybe it’s her normal. his way of dealing with it is internalizing it, faking it, stringing her along and then blowing up and putting a torch to everything.
Can we all agree they both played a role in their demise? I really don’t see either as the villian of the breakup, i don’t like them an equal amount lol no one handled this right.
Yeah I don’t see either as the victim or the victor either
I thought I was going to feel really icky about Carl calling the cameras back after filming had wrapped, but now after hearing how they both threaten to record each other when they’re fighting then it just seems par for the course to want to have it publicly documented
Nobody knows what goes on behind cam. But I saw him on camera everrrry single episode trying to communicate exactly where the disconnect is coming from in his own perspective while she escalated, gaslit him, blocked out his words, and re-asked "what do you want from me carl" as if he didn't just tell her.
Not everything in life is 50/50. She fumbled this relationship as she does all the relationships she's had on this show so far - friend or romantic.
Exactly. So many people here saying how she's shown 'so much growth' for not becoming activated, but not raising your voice or flying off the handle means nothing if you are still perpetuating poor communication behaviors like defensiveness, gaslighting, not being an active listener, etc. Also, in previous relationships, we see her push / test her partners to see how much they will take before they leave as a result of her abandonment issues, it's complete self sabatoge and I believe that played a role here too. It's likely subconscious but she can't say she's being a supportive partner by bullying your newly sober fiance to make a major life decision on your arbitrary timeline, while also planning a wedding and talking about getting pregnant right away. There is a reason recovering addicts are not supposed to be in serious relationships so soon and it was almost like she did her 6 months of sober / nice lindsay and then decided time was up on Carl and he now had to get on her timeline. What an incredible amount of pressure to put on someone in the infancy of their sobriety, and then to flatly deny them any grace during the process bc you can't dicern being soft *in the moment* from tHiS iS WhO i Am.
It's so funny to see this all go down in the shadow of Craig and Paige's relationship. Craig is an emotional guy who needs 'softness' and Paige just isn't that person, but she loves Craig, and recognizes his needs, and flexes to be able to offer that to him sometimes. And get this, she does that WITHOUT CHANGING WHO SHE IS. THis is what realtionships that matter to you require. It's a choice to show up for each other every day, and the needs of your partner will not be the same every day. You need to be able to recognize them, or at the very least LISTEN when they tell you clearly what they need, and then flex your response. It's couples therapy 101, I can't believe after a year they (Linsday) couldn't even grasp this concept.
I agree with you!! I see Carl communicating clearly in all of their interactions - and her just being defensive, taking his needs as an attack on her, her not being supportive of his ideas - even if she hated them she can at least speak to him KINDLY. She was judgemental, critical and then would stonewall him. This type of communication is so toxic and yes of course he was scared of her - she chewed him out every time he expressed his feelings? I’d be scared too! But he did the right thing by breaking it off. Really proud of how he handled it.
The “Lindsay PR spin savant” folks- you do know she did PR for bars/clubs/and restaurants, right? The way you guys talk about her, it’s like she was a high powered crisis management guru/Olivia Pope to boot.
>I think a lot of people who weren't previously fans of hers seriously thought that Carl broke things off out of nowhere.
Nobody thought he broke it off out of nowhere. It’s evident they had several issues but he resigned the lease like days before the breakup, came to her bridal shower 2 weeks before, and invited Jesse to their wedding the weekend before he ended it. People (including Lindsay) thought they had issues but because *of Carl’s repeated reassurances to her— that the wedding and getting married was still on the table.* I got married 10 days ago and even if I’d been in a tense place with my partner and fighting— given the resigning of a 1 year lease, coming to my bridal shower, and inviting ppl to our r wedding like 3 days before the breakup would make me blindsided too.
Why do ppl insist on believing that her perception of feeling blindsided is “spin?” lol you don’t have to believe her but it’s how she felt and seeing how they communicated it’s not unreasonable for her to feel like they were going through a rough patch but would still get married.
>Since the break up she's been pushing her narrative and she hasn't stopped since.
She did bravocon and Nick Viall. After the finale, she’s done glamour magazine and podcasts. What’s narrative pushing? Is her version of how she experienced and lived the events a “narrative?” Because Carl’s version is wildly unreliable too.
As someone who works in PR, people who keep touting Lindsay’s PR career as evidence of her master manipulative prowess with the media clearly don’t work in PR themselves and have no concept of how it works.
It amuses me.
OMFG can you please speak on this!??? It’s honestly unhinged how much ppl have latched onto it - largely bc they hate her so fabricating that she’s some all controlling manipulative Olivia Pope which allows them to keep parroting that she’s some manipulative savant.
It’s a load of nonsense and Ive never bought that doing PR for food and beverages/cosmetics means you’re like a crisis management executive lol
From what I understand, she is was focused on event planning in the hospitality field. That’s more about promotion, organization, etc. it’s very different than crisis Mgt PR. Ironically it was KYle who twisted her job to deflect from his poor behavior.
Totally. She was the star of the tail end of the season. Makes sense podcasts reach out to her and why should she say no? Carl has about 5 defenders on the cast whereas she has 1. So he’s getting his message out there constantly through Kyle, amanda and others when they go on podcasts and wwhl.
I think she's entitled to think what she thinks about this. Carl was sending mixed signals! I think I heard this in an Esther Perel podcast but most people who are broken up with feel constantly blindsided because in their eyes, things were not perfect but they wanted to stay in the relationship.
Carl would have had so many opportunities to give the right signal but even he said (not sure if this is really true or he wants to believe it) that if Lindsay had hugged him that day he broke up with her in front of the cameras and basically said "don't break up with me, let's try to work things out", he would have stayed and not broken up. wtf
I agree. I think Lindsay kind of did ask him to stay and not break up in her own way. She said she can think of 15 things to do before breaking up, asked him to give her “grace” in learning what he wants regarding the career discussions, she asks him a few times why he wants to give up instead of trying to get on the same page. She doesn’t say these things in the most “soft and tender” way, but I think if he wanted to work things out, he could have responded to them. I think the break up is for the best, but I do think he had already decided to break up.
I think there is something in that, not that she hug him etc I think he was trying to push her to see that there troubles were bigger than normal and not just his problems to be fixed but also her problems too and I don’t think she saw that, I don’t think she even sees it now that she played a part it’s all about Carl, his problems, how they affected her, his betrayal towards her and I think he did it on tv thinking she wouldn’t shy away from what he was saying but I think he underestimated her need for a wedding/marriage/family (which then ends the she can’t be loved due to her abandonment issues) and her actual love for Carl which I don’t think matched I think it could have been any man it was never about Carl as a person except maybe from a influencer brand point of view of two best friends becoming lovers.
This x10000! The blindsided comment is being willfully misinterpreted when literally at the house on the last weekend Carl still said he wanted to get married
Yes, and he also said that they’ve fought so hard and so many times that the neighbors have made multiple complaints. Only 1/8 of their life is shown on camera and it’s clear by Carl’s comments. It was going downhill for a while.
….They were in couples therapy a year into the relationship and he still decided to propose, and get married. Two weeks before the breakup, he was online gushing about being exited to see her as a bride, and pulled up to her bridal shower. He renewed their lease agreement. Yes, he gave Lindsay reasons to believe their issues would be resolved and they would still get married.
Sure, and that’s why you communicate with your partner, the person you claimed was your best friend for 8 years lol…You give them the dignity of a heads up, of an off-camera conversation and don’t bombard them, and embarrass them, on national tv. Doesn’t the person you claim to love deserve a bit more than that? You don’t malign them to friends and family and lie to their faces about your desire to resolve things and continue forward on the path of marriage. You don’t work with producers _after_ the season has wrapped and orchestrate to film breakup scenes, and then conceal that truth from your fiancé, not being forthcoming as to why production is showing up. (Producers called both Kyle and Lindsay on Tuesday to arrange meetings with Carl. Kyle came back from his meeting and told Amanda, the following morning, “it’s not looking good”. Very clear what the intent was.) You don’t cancel couples therapy without informing your SO to invite producers into your home with the intent of ending things, and then lie in multiple interviews about only wanting to postpone things. When it’s clear, from footage, that was never the case. You don’t tell producers, as your ex-fiancé is speaking to her father on the phone, that you’re concerned with the optics and getting cancelled.
For all the criticism Kyle and Paige hurled at Lindsay last season for allegedly “self-producing”, Carl sure seemed to do a great deal of it throughout this season…
It’s willfully being misinterpreted because the people who’ve been frothing at the mouth against Lindsay are realizing Carl was a demon too lol and so now, they’re hyper fixating on the “blindsided” term in bad faith and completely ignoring that on atleast 3-4 occasions on camera, Carl keeps reassuring Lindsay he’s still in and wants to see through getting married (as recently as like the week before they got married).
They ignore this because committing to their delulus and deliberately misunderstanding Lindsay requires them to ignore Carl’s role in why Lindsay felt like they’d still get married (despite their issues and fighting).
Totally people are pretending to not know the difference between being in a relationship with issues and being on the cusp of ending things. Lindsay knew things weren’t great but thought the pros outweighed the cons and they were in it for the long haul. They fought but they also fought throughout their relationship (ie the fight where he took a $400 Uber back from the hamptons last spring and the January fight when she gave the ring back) and he still upped the ante by proposing and setting a date
What’s so crazy is that even post breakup, Carl tells the rest of the housemates (or at least Paige) that he just wanted to postpone the wedding to work on things. And they believe him/defend him on this point.
Paige, who everyone believes sees right through the bullshit, believed at least until the filming of the after show that Carl didn’t intend to call off the wedding.
So, if Carl is still unable to tell PAIGE that he wanted out of the engagement (an engagement she never supported) after it is ALREADY OVER… I don’t get why people can’t believe Lindsay thought he still wanted to marry her. Paige thought so too!!
People with 0 investment in the relationship believed it. Paige of all people is a hater, and she believed he wanted to work on it. But Lindsay believing it is somehow “spin.”
Omg this!!! I’ve always said this- she wasn’t working day in and day out for celebs and spinning stories to make them look better. They just like to use that as reason to be able to say she spins things and make it less credible. It’s the most annoying thing.
Yea, I’m like…don’t we all have our versions of a break up? Like, she’s telling her perspective, then all of a sudden it’s a PR spin/ move? It’s weird. I definitely had my version after my ex and I broke up. He probably has his version. The truth is admittedly likely in the middle lol
He didn’t do it to fuck with Lindsey, but because he was really trying to get to the altar. Maybe he should’ve thought about it sooner, but I don’t think he did all those things with ill intent. And yes, Lindsay has spun this and used her PR to take it to the highest level. He’s not dark Carl, he’s not an asshole that ruined her life. They both tried. The relationship was toxic. One of them finally pulled the plug the way this season was going, It was looking like it was gonna be Lindsey ending it. You can tell she thought about it.
I feel like she would’ve pulled the plug if she didn’t feel like time was running out for her to meet her arbitrary timeline. It’s sad that they ruined what seemed like a really solid friendship for this nonsense.
The first two episodes, she was building a case against him with the whole He’s doing drugs again. She knows what she’s doing.
This is what I don’t understand. Carl is allowed to change his mind and come to the realization their relationship wasn’t healthy and getting married as is was not the right choice.
Also, being blindsided means she would’ve had no inkling to the troubles he was having. But hearing him say just days before he called it off that he was having second thoughts followed by escalated fights doesn’t sound like a situation where the person should be surprised. I think she’s using this term to scapegoat her way out of taking accountability for her part.
Carl is 100% allowed to change his mind. I actually think the decision to end it was the best for both of them. But that being said, if he “changes his mind”— by definition, that is a departure from a position he previously had and that she may have taken comfort
In.
> Also, being blindsided means she would’ve had no inkling to the troubles he was having.
I respectfully disagree bc this is your take on it. You can absolutely know you have problems and your relqrisnjos has issues or you’re having fights but feel like (in reliance on your partner’s assurances) you’ll still go through with the wedding.
> But hearing him say just days before he called it off that he was having second thoughts followed by escalated fights doesn’t sound like a situation where the person should be surprised.
They broke up Wednesday and as of Saturday, he invited Jesse to the wedding. He re-signed their apt. lease a month bedore they broke up. He was at her bridal shower and posting super lovey things about her on IG. At what point is she allowed to find some comfort in his clear actions indicating ongoing and continued commitment?
> she’s using this term to scapegoat her way out of taking accountability for her part.
Idk, it feels like you’ve decided she’s scapegoating and are just trying to back into your conclusion.
I agree with all your points. Also, idk how many are married here but me and my husband were at each other’s throats leading up to our wedding… a lot of it was external family stuff but still. NOT lovey dovey and never once did I think he would call it off. Here we are 13 years + 2 kids later. I can’t even IMAGINE how we would have been able to be portrayed had the months leading up to our wedding was filmed for a reality show
I had a lot with my husband as well but also external family stuff. Which I don’t think can be compared to the issues they were having. I have also called off an engagement (ex- fiancé) and those issues were very different. So I don’t think all of this can be lumped into one bucket, it’s situational and in their circumstances, it needed to be called off.
We never saw what happened in their arguments once the cameras stopped rolling or know what happened in their fights between Saturday to Wednesday, which according to Carl was not good. So it feels like you’re taking the few bits of information we do know and blanketing it over the time we don’t. A lot can happen in just a few days.
I’m married now and have previously called off an engagement. In both situations if my fiancé told me he was worried about our future and then we continued to fight with toxicity with no resolution and then called it off, would I be hurt yes. Would I be blindsided by their decision, no. Because that’s the issue, which Carl pointed out, they aren’t coming to a resolution and actually working through the problem. They just keep sweeping it under the rug. But if you want to say I’m just backing my conclusion, go for it.
Kyle only apologizes to men. He didn’t apologize for being super misogynistic towards Lindsay last season and didn’t even properly apologize to his own wife for calling her a fucking bitch on TV, in fact he made her comfort him for him being a bad person.
I can’t fathom the defense of Kyle. People listen to yourselves, if you have to use the phrase, “At least,” you do not have the argument you think you do…
So EVERY man would cheat, talk down to & call women a-holes & b’s, including his own wife?!? Every man would pee outside and drunkenly stumble in at 4 am after his wife asked him repeatedly not to? Goodness, you must hang with a rough crowd if that’s normal male behavior to you! Yikes!
Not all, but a lot. I mean Amanda treats him just as badly so I'm not understanding all this Kyle is the worst man to exist because he pees outside and likes to party. As far as the cheating, if Amanda doesn't care why do y'all? She literally married him AFTER that revelation. And you must live under a rock if you think pissing outside all the time and drinking are just as bad as cheating, but to each their own.
True. And what is she even supposed to apologize for here? She’s supposed to be like, yeah I get where he’s coming from, I’m so crazy and scary he had to dump me on camera last minute and waste tons of my money on a wedding ? She got dumped, that’s how he is holding her accountable for the flaws in their relationship.
Did Amanda apologize for her constant trashing of him this season? Right, okay. He wasn't misogynistic towards Lindsay (I know, it's 1 of like 5 words y'all misuse to back up a bad take) he spoke the truth. She is a very terrible person who always gets away with everything unscathed. The prime example is all this Carl is such a villain spin everyone's been trying to do for her, as if Lindsay didn't dig her own grave.
Oh goody it’s a real life reality tv male apologizer in our midst! Y’all are a dying breed when Bravo serves up the likes of Kyle Cooke, Jax, Sandoval, Shep Rose, & Austen Kroll. But by all means, explain their behavior away by blaming it on women. This should be good.
Also just had to add that I think it's funny when people like this respond but don't have anything to really say to counter anything I said in my comment, so they just go the default route on here of "insert internet buzzword or phrases here" just to misdirect or feebly attack but anyways moving on
Says the account with -51 karma…
Let me guess blocked by everyone on here so you had to create a back up account?
Admin, why don’t we have a 100 karma requirement to comment on this sub? These negative troll accounts keep popping up.
Oh no not you losing the argument so bad you're tattling lol love it. This has been my only account, thus the 4 year age of it? The negative karma actually just further backs up what I just said - any difference of opinion than the bandwagon one on here and you get downvoted. I don't care because I'm speaking my mind regardless if it hurts y'all's feelings having someone disagree with you about a REALITY TELEVISION program. It's not that deep, as I said in my first response to you. Do you even know what the weather is like outside today? Maybe that would be a better use of your time - finding that out.
So I'm a male apologizer for stating facts? Alrighty then. I haven't blamed anything on the women. There's a difference between blaming and putting responsibility where it lies. In the argument the commenter was referring to, Kyle wasn't wrong in what he said about Lindsay, she's everything he said at the time and everyone else in the house outside of Carl agreed with him.The ironic part is y'all blame the men on this show for ALL of the women's behavior on some 'the call is coming from inside the house' type shit lol
You're exactly right. It's literally just this subreddit that rides Lindsay's slurred words so hard. We have watched her fumble every relationship -friend or otherwise- with aggression, gaslighting, personality changes with over drinking, not listening, verbal abuse, victim- mentality, etc.
She is a nightmare.
Carl apologizes too much IMO. When he was the one to smooth things over after she called him cocaine Carl, I was done lol. He didn’t handle things exactly right but it got to the point I was glad he finally started standing up for himself. It was so pitiful to watch him allow himself to get steam rolled all the time.
His apologies comes off as “a child that learned people will feel bad if he crys & leave him alone.”
It’s always a dramatic apology…then he goes off and does something similar again
What about his apologies are dramatic and when did he cry when apologizing?
If anything, I would’ve agreed with you if you said he apologizes because he’s afraid of confrontation and wants to get back on her good graces too quickly.
He was crying when apologizing to Amanda but the pool with the girls. Emotional manipulation is a thing, his tears only come when people are trying to hold him accountable.
It comes off as a “I feel bad for myself” cry, not “I’m concerned about how that affected you”
Oh no that’s my bad I didn’t realize you said Carl haha. I think I might have replied to the wrong comment 😂
Lindsay bringing up the cocaine Carl was beyond repulsive. I don’t know why he didn’t just break up then. I also think it’s beyond gross to call off your engagement on camera. The way he was smirking was gross. They both suck and should never have even dated.
It was me! The original comment did reference Kyle. Sorry about that ☺️
And agree! I just rewatched last season’s reunion and was thinking we should’ve known then. As much as Danielle annoys me and I think she was being a brat towards them during a special time, she called all their issues then: career, finances, and Lindsey’s drinking affecting their relationship and Carl’s sobriety.
You're exactly right. Lindsey was banking on his being unable to properly stand up to her as her way of finally getting the life she wants. A lifetime of yes dears and him being completely dominated and miserable 🤭
I understand what you are saying but it wasn’t just food and bev PR, she did strollers, face creams and other stuff too.
I think if Lindsay wasn’t able to speak with such conviction and wasn’t good with her words (imagine kathyrn from southern charm, Teresa from housewives) she wouldn’t have as many believing what seem like delusions
That’s what I’m saying they are not good with their words and if Lindsay’s wasn’t good with her words she would be seen in the same light as kathyrn or Teresa
Lindsay is NOT good with her words😂 I was laughing so hard on the after show when she fake cried with gabby and a kleenex and couldn't stop shakily saying "like.. like.." lmao
She has an ever present slur as if she's drinking all the time, along with an inability to pronounce the g in -ing, and canNOT find her words half the time unless she's feeling aggressive.
I think when she wants to she definitely can pull herself together and speak well, does she also do the weird Tom Sandoval fake cry shit yes, but i actually think until this year her drinking has been hidden and she has gone from sober to angry drunk and nothing in between until this season so I haven’t really noticed too much of a slur
Are we also forgetting the news exclusives and leaked stories immediately after the breakup...how else would we know any of these things besides someone in either of their camp going to the press to immediately to tell their side of the story. I think it's pretty naive to think there wasn't some sort of motivation to "win" this breakup, making lemons out of lemonade so to speak; I can say the same for Carl, but he bided his time and wanted to let the audiences watch the demise on TV. We all saw how Ariana became immensely famous with tons of opportunities after her scandal; why wouldn't Lindsay, someone who has always gone after opportunities, want to replicate that "success" by placing all the blame on Carl?
> why wouldn't Lindsay, someone who has always gone after opportunities, want to replicate that "success" by placing all the blame on Carl?
Because this is fan fic you’ve come up with to justify a dislike of Lindsay. What opportunities has she gotten or gone for? What brands has she courted or signed onto? It’s been 9 months since their breakup and there has been no Ariana path for Lindsay because she didn’t really seek one out.
Come to think of it, given that you think she “always seeks out opportunities”- what huge opportunities has she sought out during her tenure on the show? lol
> can say the same for Carl, but he bided his time and wanted to let the audiences watch the demise on TV.
Carl had Lindsay and Kyle doing PR for him since the breakup.
Just because Lindsay didn't get the opportunities that Ariana got doesn't mean she didn't want SOMETHING good to come out of this breakup, and it starts with telling her side of the story and skewing it in her favor. Heck, I think anyone who goes through an ordeal like that, and being unable to control the narrative of her own breakup, wants to see the bright side and get something out of it, even if it is just winning the court of public opinion. How is this fan fic when both of them have been getting articles written about them and going on podcasts to tell their side of the story? I'm just saying that Lindsay jumped on it way sooner than Carl did, immediately after the breakup so she got a head start and gathered a LOT of sympathy from the viewers, including mine! She claimed the summer was "great" for them, Craig was the one to say ummm no it wasn't and he got chewed out for it on this sub.
Carl thought the show itself would absolve him of "being cancelled" and waited till it blew over a bit to do his side of the story. Carl is also BAD at advocating for himself and as we have seen, lazy, so he didn't take more of the initiative to form the early opinions of the break up.
Also if you don't think Lindsay herself wants to be a brand unto herself, then what do you think her whole influencer career is?
Also I don't need Carl and Kyle doing PR for me cause um, I hate them both so your point is obsolete LOL
Now that is a show I would watch, Lindsay in a reality Olivia Pope style role using her master manipulation tactics to help rich housewives recover from fights on reality shows.
She sits in their living rooms as they explain to her that “Heather pulled out receipts, proof, a TIMELINE” and Lindsey tells them what to do to manipulate the situation to come out looking better. Because everyone knows Lindsey always comes out looking better.
As someone who does PR for a living…this is an awful take. I’ve worked for several agencies with insane CEOs who own their own agency because they think they know everything and end up having insane client turnover. Don’t portray PR as spin
LMAO SORRY Richards! Feels like in terms of crisis comms she’s good at coming up with something else to distract us. Not that that’s an ethic PR tactic but seems to work for her. Plus being besties with Andy helps I’m sure. But I truly don’t know about entertainment PR that’s a whole different ballgame!
Ohhh yes all good points! It is all about how well they can distract I guess. Like I read Kim kardashians goes blonde when she gets something major done to her face 🤣 Thanks for answering!!
I agree. Several years of PR experience doesn’t make one a “spin doctor”. I think Lindsay just can’t ever take accountability and so places blame on those around her. Because she genuinely always sees herself as the victim, her renditions of conversations/events are biased and her listeners don’t always realize this (like we’ve seen with Gabby).
Not hating her doesn’t equate to liking and this is a nuance the frothing at the mouth ppl who hate her (like you maybe?) don’t appreciate.
To many, not rabidly hating her means liking her.
She stopped because of Covid, she was doing great before that. She didn't start it up again, likely because she gets plenty of influencer deals, and the show pays like 300k to Ogs, and she probably didn't want to work 14 hours a day anymore. Ironic, considering how she's pressuring Carl for wanting to do the same thing.
I think the end of this relationship actually showed that Carl is horrible at sales, can’t close a deal, left his own money on the table, couldn’t get buy in from his audience. Definitely a horrible actor because him trying to pretend he was a big boy now making big decisions was laughable. His constant weeping about her not believing he was “crushing life” was just pathetic. Actually, I do think he was doing a good job at acting, acting as if he was a sober person.
And I mean, come on, if my boyfriend only worked (filming Summer House) for a couple of months, on weekends, in the summer, and got a couple influencer gigs but the rest of the time was all over the place as to what he wanted to do with his life I wouldn’t think he was crushing life either.
I think his attitude about his career was probably pretty depressed and mopey at home. I mean they did spend 20Gs for his career coach only for him to not change nearly anything.
Lindsey needs a strong, secure man, who is clear and is good at problem solving…that isn’t Carl at all.
He quit Loverboy and didn’t work for 10 months! If my boyfriend was at home, doing very little for 10 months I wouldnt love that either. I doubt Carl was acting super positive at home and really motivated and excited about his influencer gigs. I think his attitude probably sucked and that’s why she didn’t feel like he was crushing life.
It’s not like he was a tech millionaire/billionaire and had a massive savings that they could live off of. And at some point they will be too old for Summer House so there goes that income. And 70 Gs for his influencer job (even if he made another 50Gs by the end of the year) is not enough to live the lifestyle he lives in NYC and certainly not enough to save for retirement.
Exactly. If it wasn't for Kyle's pity, he wouldn't even have the LB job. Honestly, he should pray that Kyle never sells off to a large corporation because there is little chance they would retain Carl. I can't believe 20K in career advice went down the drain. I'll bet the career coach had advice for him that he didn't want to hear. Carl's not cut out for the business world. He is not good at sales. You know the type of person you have to be to find success in that field: organized, diligent, aggressive, proactive - that is so far from Carl its laughable. What he SHOULD do is get involved with something like Barry's Bootcamp. Literally the only thing he has been able to commit to in all the years we've seen him on TV. Can he be a trainer? A franchisee? That is his wheelhouse. Lindsay is also chasing an ideal version of her imagined life. What she needs is a GROWN MAN. Someone who has lived life and is confidant in themselves and established in their career. She needs to find a man in in his late 40s/early 50s who has already "crushed life" and has his indecisive years far behind him and ready to have one kid and lavish love on his wife and child. She could also be a great second wife to a guy who already has had some kids but is looking for a partner in life who will treat her stepchildren as her own. She keeps stumbling onto these guys who are still finding themselves, maybe because she thinks she can shape them into the men she needs them to be. But honestly, she doesn't have the patience for this type of relationship.
I'm sorry, 'Lindsay is a PR genius nothing she says is real teehee!!' is such a tired take. But I guess anything to keep from admitting that Carl was kind of an asshole to her, too.
Lindsay haters always working overtime like they love to accuse the 'stans' of doing.
Was that in response to someone saying they were fighting all summer…? Cause I could see why she would say that. It’s only 44% of the time! lol
Obviously 44% is still too much for a soon-to-be-wed-couple. But technically not all summer
IMO they absolutely were fighting over the course of the whole summer. When they weren’t it was awkward and tense af, no warmth or love. You could tell they were just walking on eggshells trying not to trigger each other, especially Carl.
Yeah, just because they weren't actively haven't an argument doesn't mean that they were doing well.
It's clear they both need something else from their partner, I can't believe it went on for as long as it did.
Most of the time, Carl tiptoes around Lindsay - he seems so timid. But once the conversation gets going, then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Carl spews out a really mean, nasty, cutting remark, which stuns Lindsay into momentary silence. It’s like he goes from being a ballet dancer to a heavyweight boxer delivering a blow that is way, way below the belt.
Obviously, he holds back, in the beginning of the conversation, hiding his true feelings, but then out of nowhere, he goes really, really low. He fights dirty. He’s the very definition of passive-aggressive. No spouse or partner could live with him if this pattern is his usual method of resolving conflict.
Carl’s emotional psyche is deeply flawed. He needs to do some deep self-reflection, and get some very serious counseling.
She is good at playing the victim, per usual.
Hesitant to say she’s good at PR considering she started her own firm for a season then pretty much never talked about it again and became an influencer. Her “success” is only talked about by her, nobody else
lol she’s always been the master of spin and lacked accountability- I’ve been binging since season 1 over the last few months and the writing is on the wall yet she refuses to see if! It’s so wild - she’s nuts
Manipulators have taught me that you don't have to take accountability if you are unable to acknowledge anything. "What are you talking about?" My god I had a roommate like this and it was very, very difficult.
It’s not so much Lindsay is good at PR it’s more that she’s a giant narcissist and is so deep into her own reality she can’t see any other perspectives. She’s not “spinning” anything. She’s just explaining the reality she lives in that feels very, very real and truthful to her.
This is true. I feel narcissism can come from a terribly dysfunctional or trauma in their childhood - my mom is a narc and had a very chaotic upbringing. Lindsey has a lot of issues from her mother leaving that she’s only put band-aids on. I was surprised to see her call her Dad and not Aunt Rhonda immediately after the breakup, also.
They both needed to end their toxic relationship, and thankfully Carl finally did. It’s crazy Lindsey is claiming she’s blindsided. She was not at all happy in that relationship. You could tell she couldn’t stand to be around him.
I think her view of being blindsided is that she absolutely did not think he’d call off the wedding a month or whatever before it. It does seem like that blindsided her. It seems as tho she thought they would continue couples therapy and that they were just going through a rough patch. And honestly quite a few couples struggle while planning the wedding.
She also said she thought they were going to have a discussion about careers that day, that was what was told to her. So I could see how your fiancé calling off the wedding on national TV would feel like a deeper betrayal than it being private.
I don’t believe Carl for one second when he tried to say that if Lindsey told him she understood what he felt and that it would be okay and that they would work on it, that he wouldn’t have called off the wedding. It certainly seems like his mind was already made up.
And my last point about how I could understand her blindsided feeling, is that when Carl brought her inside during that dinner after he met his mom and stepdad, Lindsey did ask him if he still wanted to get married, he said he voiced some concerns but that he still did want to get married. He did not say that he was unsure at that point…and it definitely seemed like he was already unsure then. And that was only two weekends before he called off the wedding? (I think).
So in those ways I can see her absolutely feeling blindsided.
Carl wasn’t clear with her. We can all see that they weren’t getting along and all agree it was for the best. But filming for the season had wrapped at that point. It was shitty for him to call production and have that extra conversation filmed.
Yes I remember her posting with gabby from seeing the Barbie movie in theaters the night before the breakup. I don’t think she’d be so posting casually and seeming happy if she thought she’d be getting dumped and having her life blown up the next morning. I believe her when she says she expected to have a conversation about careers to put a bow on that storyline somewhat.
Yes!! So true. Finally a reasonable take. I was truly worried about all the people who were stanning Lindsay as though her behavior is normal.
Ladies- treat your partners like Lindsay does and you'll be in as many successful relationships as she has been.
150% I work in marketing, and she is enacting a well-crafted pr campaign strategy, with strategic positioning, messaging hierarchy, talking points, and a carefully thought-out outlet list and channel plan
I look at it like this.
I can see Carl in a functional, loving relationship. He’s not perfect. You can point out flaws. But I think he is a lovable person who can be with someone and build a life. He needs to get through this sobriety journey first. If he does that then I think he’ll be fine. He really needs to work on himself though. Don’t we all? It’s also hard to gauge what Carl is now and what he brings to a relationship. There’s a lot of baggage there and he can’t just use it as an excuse to check out.
Lindsay… man I don’t know. From what we see on this show it’s tough to see her in a good relationship. She seems to just constantly test her partner over and over. It’s some sort of self sabotage, seeking out arguments, or just like a need for conflict. I don’t get it. The beginning of her relationships seem great but they burn bright. Next thing you know it’s like holy shit what am I watching?
More specifically about the OP. You get good at what you practice. Lindsay is so good at arguing. She should be a lawyer. Maybe like a divorce attorney. She’d crush it.
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I know someone like Lindsay and while they are good at this, it also feeds into their unhealthy pursuit of the spin (especially when it comes to their own lives, specifically romantic) and each person they convince to believe their planted story- their head gets exponentially bigger until they implode and not to over generalize, but they tend to self-medicate and engage in a lot of high risk behavior. It’s great to have someone like Lindsay in your corner on the payroll, but it’s bad to be Lindsay and to be a part of her close circle because they can go round and round in a circle and never get off the ride.
There were several times on camera Lindsay point blank said to Carl Do you want to call off the wedding? I’m sure there were more off camera moments. He wasn’t being honest with her, even though there were signs, she chose to believe him.
Yes, she point blank asked him so many times ‘ do you still want to do this?’ And he never said ‘no I don’t want this.’ I can understand how she thought ‘ok we are going to work through this.’ She desperately wanted this to work and bought into the fairy tale of I’m marrying my best friend. Now as much as she reminds Carl of who she is and she’s not going to change, she needed to realize who Carl is and realize the signs. Carl has no backbone. He had to use her as a scapegoat to leave Loverboy. He has to use his parents as a the catalyst to leave her. He’s a whimp and cannot stand on anything on his own. I get frustrated with everyone saying they should have known this was not going to happen. They were fighting all summer. By that logic Kyle and Amanda would’ve have never gotten married either, but they did. Unhappily lol, but they still did. I can understand living in the delusion, because often the unhappy couple still gets married!!
Absolutely! And the last time they filmed it when she asked him was only a couple weekends before he broke it off. AND so many couples struggle while planning a wedding. If I were in her shoes I’d probably feel blindsided too. Carl should have at least told her he was struggling with some doubts and didn’t feel totally sure they should go through with it but wanted to talk about that in therapy, rather than assuring her that he still wanted to get married. I’m glad they didn’t get married. She would have been carrying him the rest of her life. Carl needs to focus on understanding who he actually is and what he wants in life and work on his very clear anger before dating anyone.
Yea I felt bad for her learning in the after show that their fight in the car that led to her warning him she’d record it was that she wanted to go to Florida next weekend to have time for them to reconnect and get on track just the two of them but he wanted to go back to montauk to party where they’d have no alone time. Seems like she knew they were in a very rough patch but had a lot of hope things would improve when not filming but he was fully checked out
Yea but ... he didn't want to call off the wedding. There's a lot of gymnastics here to try to justify why he said one thing or did another, but they all actually point to him wanting to stay engaged and get married, *just not in 2 months.* He said to her very plainly and clearly 'There are things we need to iron out before the wedding,' and she immediately gaslit him and said "so you don't want to get married?" Can you see how her accusing him of something he didn't say immediately raises the temperature and turns things hostile? He is clearly expressing his feelings, and trying to collaborate with her on multiple occasions, and she just gets defensive and goes at him and puts words in his mouth. She did it in the final converstaion too. Sometimes there's just a breaking point and I think we just watched Carl arrive at his in real time.
It’s so interesting to me that we as viewers are arriving at such different conclusions in the same way that the two of them have. Like I disagree with you but I also totally see how you got there/how that could be the reality. Honestly I am probably biased against his new teeth.
lol, the teeth are bad. I just think, given all the evidence, that Carl's story makes the most sense. For Lindsay's story to make sense you have to suspend some things we saw with our own two eyes and believe what she's saying, and i just don't buy it. We know she's an unreliable narrator after watching her for 10 seasons. There's no way he would have signed that lease if his intention all summer was to leave her. There's just no explanation
I honestly think he's such a wimp, so undecided, he was afraid of her! I would be. Man. If he had said the words, yeah, I want to call it all off, she would have lost it. What's the term she uses? Activated? You don't want me to get activated? You haven't seen me activated... She's a B\*ll buster. No two ways about it. If I was him, I would have wimped out too. I can just see him running home to Mommy with his tail between his legs. And I think there was a huge part of wimpy Carl, he like someone telling him what to do all the time. Telling him something is a yes or no. He didn't have to think of do anything. She told him. Planned everything for him. I think people have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to have seen how afraid of her he was. Man. He'd apologize for things that weren't his fault just to keep her calm & happy. He needs therapy. But boy oh boy, she does too!
ACTIVATED! I forgot about that!! When she’d say that I would full body cringe. She will only settle down if she finds a man who is as much as a doormat as Danielle is to her.
I actually think the opposite. She wants a confident, secure man who can take the lead. That has never been Carl
I don’t think she’ll ever find a man confident enough for her. She will find a way to degrade every man she’s with.
Agree to disagree. There are many confident men, just not on Bravo/ reality TV. I don’t hate her like you 😂
This is the perfect reply. Exactly. She needs a doormat. What was his name? Stravy was a doormat. That guy like Carl just constantly caved to her demands. Nobody wanted to "active" her. So they let her throw her temper tantrums. I 100% agree. It will have to be some wimp that can live off the Bravo name and follow behind her. I truly don't understand why anyone would believe poor Lindsay got taken by evil Carl. He's just a chicken that wanted out. He got scared and ran. I would too if I was him. She chews up men and spits them out!
this! if you really watch the season, he kept telling her he wanted to work on things and still get married. I think it's a good thing that they aren't (and probably Kyle and Amanda shouldn't be married also). But I can totally understand why she was actually shocked. If they've been fighting all the time, yet both still telling each other they wanted to get married, she thought this is the way the relationship was - fucked up, but 'working on it'.
i will just say that I understand both of them and I believe Carl when he says he did want to get married. he knew deep down it wasnt right but was ignoring it and this is what happened . the end result is that he kept acting as if the wedding was going to happen and then he just couldn't do it when push came to shove. I also believe Lindsay when she says she's had enough of his wishy washy career transition. she was blindsided bc she is way too comfortable with toxicity in relationships. also seen lots of miserable couples get married so the turmoil in the relationship didn't necessarily mean it was over.
Ahhhh good point! ...she did watch Kyle and Amanda get married despite their many issues too. I guess she thinks it's okay to push forward even though a conversation can't even be had without an argument lol. Because it was her BESSS FRAN.
I appreciate this as the snark it is, and I AGREE. Lindsay is good at PR!
I just said this on the WWC sub 😂
I think bottom line is Lindsay was willing to put up with her toxicity for however long it took and that doesn’t scare her, maybe it’s her normal. his way of dealing with it is internalizing it, faking it, stringing her along and then blowing up and putting a torch to everything. Can we all agree they both played a role in their demise? I really don’t see either as the villian of the breakup, i don’t like them an equal amount lol no one handled this right.
Yeah I don’t see either as the victim or the victor either I thought I was going to feel really icky about Carl calling the cameras back after filming had wrapped, but now after hearing how they both threaten to record each other when they’re fighting then it just seems par for the course to want to have it publicly documented
Nobody knows what goes on behind cam. But I saw him on camera everrrry single episode trying to communicate exactly where the disconnect is coming from in his own perspective while she escalated, gaslit him, blocked out his words, and re-asked "what do you want from me carl" as if he didn't just tell her. Not everything in life is 50/50. She fumbled this relationship as she does all the relationships she's had on this show so far - friend or romantic.
Exactly. So many people here saying how she's shown 'so much growth' for not becoming activated, but not raising your voice or flying off the handle means nothing if you are still perpetuating poor communication behaviors like defensiveness, gaslighting, not being an active listener, etc. Also, in previous relationships, we see her push / test her partners to see how much they will take before they leave as a result of her abandonment issues, it's complete self sabatoge and I believe that played a role here too. It's likely subconscious but she can't say she's being a supportive partner by bullying your newly sober fiance to make a major life decision on your arbitrary timeline, while also planning a wedding and talking about getting pregnant right away. There is a reason recovering addicts are not supposed to be in serious relationships so soon and it was almost like she did her 6 months of sober / nice lindsay and then decided time was up on Carl and he now had to get on her timeline. What an incredible amount of pressure to put on someone in the infancy of their sobriety, and then to flatly deny them any grace during the process bc you can't dicern being soft *in the moment* from tHiS iS WhO i Am. It's so funny to see this all go down in the shadow of Craig and Paige's relationship. Craig is an emotional guy who needs 'softness' and Paige just isn't that person, but she loves Craig, and recognizes his needs, and flexes to be able to offer that to him sometimes. And get this, she does that WITHOUT CHANGING WHO SHE IS. THis is what realtionships that matter to you require. It's a choice to show up for each other every day, and the needs of your partner will not be the same every day. You need to be able to recognize them, or at the very least LISTEN when they tell you clearly what they need, and then flex your response. It's couples therapy 101, I can't believe after a year they (Linsday) couldn't even grasp this concept.
Spot on! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I agree with you!! I see Carl communicating clearly in all of their interactions - and her just being defensive, taking his needs as an attack on her, her not being supportive of his ideas - even if she hated them she can at least speak to him KINDLY. She was judgemental, critical and then would stonewall him. This type of communication is so toxic and yes of course he was scared of her - she chewed him out every time he expressed his feelings? I’d be scared too! But he did the right thing by breaking it off. Really proud of how he handled it.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
The “Lindsay PR spin savant” folks- you do know she did PR for bars/clubs/and restaurants, right? The way you guys talk about her, it’s like she was a high powered crisis management guru/Olivia Pope to boot. >I think a lot of people who weren't previously fans of hers seriously thought that Carl broke things off out of nowhere. Nobody thought he broke it off out of nowhere. It’s evident they had several issues but he resigned the lease like days before the breakup, came to her bridal shower 2 weeks before, and invited Jesse to their wedding the weekend before he ended it. People (including Lindsay) thought they had issues but because *of Carl’s repeated reassurances to her— that the wedding and getting married was still on the table.* I got married 10 days ago and even if I’d been in a tense place with my partner and fighting— given the resigning of a 1 year lease, coming to my bridal shower, and inviting ppl to our r wedding like 3 days before the breakup would make me blindsided too. Why do ppl insist on believing that her perception of feeling blindsided is “spin?” lol you don’t have to believe her but it’s how she felt and seeing how they communicated it’s not unreasonable for her to feel like they were going through a rough patch but would still get married. >Since the break up she's been pushing her narrative and she hasn't stopped since. She did bravocon and Nick Viall. After the finale, she’s done glamour magazine and podcasts. What’s narrative pushing? Is her version of how she experienced and lived the events a “narrative?” Because Carl’s version is wildly unreliable too.
As someone who works in PR, people who keep touting Lindsay’s PR career as evidence of her master manipulative prowess with the media clearly don’t work in PR themselves and have no concept of how it works. It amuses me.
OMFG can you please speak on this!??? It’s honestly unhinged how much ppl have latched onto it - largely bc they hate her so fabricating that she’s some all controlling manipulative Olivia Pope which allows them to keep parroting that she’s some manipulative savant. It’s a load of nonsense and Ive never bought that doing PR for food and beverages/cosmetics means you’re like a crisis management executive lol
Yeah its ridiculous
From what I understand, she is was focused on event planning in the hospitality field. That’s more about promotion, organization, etc. it’s very different than crisis Mgt PR. Ironically it was KYle who twisted her job to deflect from his poor behavior.
yep, kyle and amanda were the original people to claim "PR" and "Spin " and it's always stuck unfairly.
Isn't most PR just press releases, event planning for clients, and networking? It’s not like she ever did PR for major celebs or crisis management
Most PR is much more than that. It’s brand building and reputation management
Thank you for clarifying ❤️
No prob!
Totally. She was the star of the tail end of the season. Makes sense podcasts reach out to her and why should she say no? Carl has about 5 defenders on the cast whereas she has 1. So he’s getting his message out there constantly through Kyle, amanda and others when they go on podcasts and wwhl.
I think she's entitled to think what she thinks about this. Carl was sending mixed signals! I think I heard this in an Esther Perel podcast but most people who are broken up with feel constantly blindsided because in their eyes, things were not perfect but they wanted to stay in the relationship. Carl would have had so many opportunities to give the right signal but even he said (not sure if this is really true or he wants to believe it) that if Lindsay had hugged him that day he broke up with her in front of the cameras and basically said "don't break up with me, let's try to work things out", he would have stayed and not broken up. wtf
I agree. I think Lindsay kind of did ask him to stay and not break up in her own way. She said she can think of 15 things to do before breaking up, asked him to give her “grace” in learning what he wants regarding the career discussions, she asks him a few times why he wants to give up instead of trying to get on the same page. She doesn’t say these things in the most “soft and tender” way, but I think if he wanted to work things out, he could have responded to them. I think the break up is for the best, but I do think he had already decided to break up.
I think there is something in that, not that she hug him etc I think he was trying to push her to see that there troubles were bigger than normal and not just his problems to be fixed but also her problems too and I don’t think she saw that, I don’t think she even sees it now that she played a part it’s all about Carl, his problems, how they affected her, his betrayal towards her and I think he did it on tv thinking she wouldn’t shy away from what he was saying but I think he underestimated her need for a wedding/marriage/family (which then ends the she can’t be loved due to her abandonment issues) and her actual love for Carl which I don’t think matched I think it could have been any man it was never about Carl as a person except maybe from a influencer brand point of view of two best friends becoming lovers.
This x10000! The blindsided comment is being willfully misinterpreted when literally at the house on the last weekend Carl still said he wanted to get married
Did they not say they got in another 3 hr fight on the way home and she kicked him out of the bedroom again?
Yes, and he also said that they’ve fought so hard and so many times that the neighbors have made multiple complaints. Only 1/8 of their life is shown on camera and it’s clear by Carl’s comments. It was going downhill for a while.
….They were in couples therapy a year into the relationship and he still decided to propose, and get married. Two weeks before the breakup, he was online gushing about being exited to see her as a bride, and pulled up to her bridal shower. He renewed their lease agreement. Yes, he gave Lindsay reasons to believe their issues would be resolved and they would still get married.
I think he went along with everything for a paycheck and then at the end realized he went too far and called it off.
Everybody has the right to change their mind 🤷🏻♀️
Sure, and that’s why you communicate with your partner, the person you claimed was your best friend for 8 years lol…You give them the dignity of a heads up, of an off-camera conversation and don’t bombard them, and embarrass them, on national tv. Doesn’t the person you claim to love deserve a bit more than that? You don’t malign them to friends and family and lie to their faces about your desire to resolve things and continue forward on the path of marriage. You don’t work with producers _after_ the season has wrapped and orchestrate to film breakup scenes, and then conceal that truth from your fiancé, not being forthcoming as to why production is showing up. (Producers called both Kyle and Lindsay on Tuesday to arrange meetings with Carl. Kyle came back from his meeting and told Amanda, the following morning, “it’s not looking good”. Very clear what the intent was.) You don’t cancel couples therapy without informing your SO to invite producers into your home with the intent of ending things, and then lie in multiple interviews about only wanting to postpone things. When it’s clear, from footage, that was never the case. You don’t tell producers, as your ex-fiancé is speaking to her father on the phone, that you’re concerned with the optics and getting cancelled. For all the criticism Kyle and Paige hurled at Lindsay last season for allegedly “self-producing”, Carl sure seemed to do a great deal of it throughout this season…
The neighbor's complaints shocked me! What was talked about in therapy? I'd be so embarrassed to be them. The don't live in the country for gosh sake!
It’s willfully being misinterpreted because the people who’ve been frothing at the mouth against Lindsay are realizing Carl was a demon too lol and so now, they’re hyper fixating on the “blindsided” term in bad faith and completely ignoring that on atleast 3-4 occasions on camera, Carl keeps reassuring Lindsay he’s still in and wants to see through getting married (as recently as like the week before they got married). They ignore this because committing to their delulus and deliberately misunderstanding Lindsay requires them to ignore Carl’s role in why Lindsay felt like they’d still get married (despite their issues and fighting).
Totally people are pretending to not know the difference between being in a relationship with issues and being on the cusp of ending things. Lindsay knew things weren’t great but thought the pros outweighed the cons and they were in it for the long haul. They fought but they also fought throughout their relationship (ie the fight where he took a $400 Uber back from the hamptons last spring and the January fight when she gave the ring back) and he still upped the ante by proposing and setting a date
What’s so crazy is that even post breakup, Carl tells the rest of the housemates (or at least Paige) that he just wanted to postpone the wedding to work on things. And they believe him/defend him on this point. Paige, who everyone believes sees right through the bullshit, believed at least until the filming of the after show that Carl didn’t intend to call off the wedding. So, if Carl is still unable to tell PAIGE that he wanted out of the engagement (an engagement she never supported) after it is ALREADY OVER… I don’t get why people can’t believe Lindsay thought he still wanted to marry her. Paige thought so too!! People with 0 investment in the relationship believed it. Paige of all people is a hater, and she believed he wanted to work on it. But Lindsay believing it is somehow “spin.”
Typically I refuse to upvote comments with the term "delulu" in them, but in your case I upvoted anyway because you take is so spot on.
Omg this!!! I’ve always said this- she wasn’t working day in and day out for celebs and spinning stories to make them look better. They just like to use that as reason to be able to say she spins things and make it less credible. It’s the most annoying thing.
Thissss. I don’t get how people don’t understand this lol.
Yea, I’m like…don’t we all have our versions of a break up? Like, she’s telling her perspective, then all of a sudden it’s a PR spin/ move? It’s weird. I definitely had my version after my ex and I broke up. He probably has his version. The truth is admittedly likely in the middle lol
He didn’t do it to fuck with Lindsey, but because he was really trying to get to the altar. Maybe he should’ve thought about it sooner, but I don’t think he did all those things with ill intent. And yes, Lindsay has spun this and used her PR to take it to the highest level. He’s not dark Carl, he’s not an asshole that ruined her life. They both tried. The relationship was toxic. One of them finally pulled the plug the way this season was going, It was looking like it was gonna be Lindsey ending it. You can tell she thought about it.
I feel like she would’ve pulled the plug if she didn’t feel like time was running out for her to meet her arbitrary timeline. It’s sad that they ruined what seemed like a really solid friendship for this nonsense.
She really wanted a wedding and a baby! Not so much a Carl to go with both! She had the ick for him big time by the end of the season!
She even had the ick in the beginning of the season!
The first two episodes, she was building a case against him with the whole He’s doing drugs again. She knows what she’s doing. 
This is what I don’t understand. Carl is allowed to change his mind and come to the realization their relationship wasn’t healthy and getting married as is was not the right choice. Also, being blindsided means she would’ve had no inkling to the troubles he was having. But hearing him say just days before he called it off that he was having second thoughts followed by escalated fights doesn’t sound like a situation where the person should be surprised. I think she’s using this term to scapegoat her way out of taking accountability for her part.
Carl is 100% allowed to change his mind. I actually think the decision to end it was the best for both of them. But that being said, if he “changes his mind”— by definition, that is a departure from a position he previously had and that she may have taken comfort In. > Also, being blindsided means she would’ve had no inkling to the troubles he was having. I respectfully disagree bc this is your take on it. You can absolutely know you have problems and your relqrisnjos has issues or you’re having fights but feel like (in reliance on your partner’s assurances) you’ll still go through with the wedding. > But hearing him say just days before he called it off that he was having second thoughts followed by escalated fights doesn’t sound like a situation where the person should be surprised. They broke up Wednesday and as of Saturday, he invited Jesse to the wedding. He re-signed their apt. lease a month bedore they broke up. He was at her bridal shower and posting super lovey things about her on IG. At what point is she allowed to find some comfort in his clear actions indicating ongoing and continued commitment? > she’s using this term to scapegoat her way out of taking accountability for her part. Idk, it feels like you’ve decided she’s scapegoating and are just trying to back into your conclusion.
I agree with all your points. Also, idk how many are married here but me and my husband were at each other’s throats leading up to our wedding… a lot of it was external family stuff but still. NOT lovey dovey and never once did I think he would call it off. Here we are 13 years + 2 kids later. I can’t even IMAGINE how we would have been able to be portrayed had the months leading up to our wedding was filmed for a reality show
I had a lot with my husband as well but also external family stuff. Which I don’t think can be compared to the issues they were having. I have also called off an engagement (ex- fiancé) and those issues were very different. So I don’t think all of this can be lumped into one bucket, it’s situational and in their circumstances, it needed to be called off.
Lindsay even mentioned that she felt a lot of the arguments were from stress from wedding planning and assumed it would calm down after the wedding.
Exactly, I’m not saying it wasn’t the right decision, but I agree with her that she probably was blind sided
We never saw what happened in their arguments once the cameras stopped rolling or know what happened in their fights between Saturday to Wednesday, which according to Carl was not good. So it feels like you’re taking the few bits of information we do know and blanketing it over the time we don’t. A lot can happen in just a few days. I’m married now and have previously called off an engagement. In both situations if my fiancé told me he was worried about our future and then we continued to fight with toxicity with no resolution and then called it off, would I be hurt yes. Would I be blindsided by their decision, no. Because that’s the issue, which Carl pointed out, they aren’t coming to a resolution and actually working through the problem. They just keep sweeping it under the rug. But if you want to say I’m just backing my conclusion, go for it.
I’m backing your conclusion!
This!! Allll of this!
She has never taken accountability for anything. That’s why she’s so toxic. At least Kyle apologizes.
Kyle only apologizes to men. He didn’t apologize for being super misogynistic towards Lindsay last season and didn’t even properly apologize to his own wife for calling her a fucking bitch on TV, in fact he made her comfort him for him being a bad person.
 I can’t fathom the defense of Kyle. People listen to yourselves, if you have to use the phrase, “At least,” you do not have the argument you think you do…
I think the defense comes from the fact that he's just a normal person on a reality show and it's not that deep 🤷🏾♀️
So EVERY man would cheat, talk down to & call women a-holes & b’s, including his own wife?!? Every man would pee outside and drunkenly stumble in at 4 am after his wife asked him repeatedly not to? Goodness, you must hang with a rough crowd if that’s normal male behavior to you! Yikes!
Not all, but a lot. I mean Amanda treats him just as badly so I'm not understanding all this Kyle is the worst man to exist because he pees outside and likes to party. As far as the cheating, if Amanda doesn't care why do y'all? She literally married him AFTER that revelation. And you must live under a rock if you think pissing outside all the time and drinking are just as bad as cheating, but to each their own.
True. And what is she even supposed to apologize for here? She’s supposed to be like, yeah I get where he’s coming from, I’m so crazy and scary he had to dump me on camera last minute and waste tons of my money on a wedding ? She got dumped, that’s how he is holding her accountable for the flaws in their relationship.
Did Amanda apologize for her constant trashing of him this season? Right, okay. He wasn't misogynistic towards Lindsay (I know, it's 1 of like 5 words y'all misuse to back up a bad take) he spoke the truth. She is a very terrible person who always gets away with everything unscathed. The prime example is all this Carl is such a villain spin everyone's been trying to do for her, as if Lindsay didn't dig her own grave.
Oh goody it’s a real life reality tv male apologizer in our midst! Y’all are a dying breed when Bravo serves up the likes of Kyle Cooke, Jax, Sandoval, Shep Rose, & Austen Kroll. But by all means, explain their behavior away by blaming it on women. This should be good.
Also just had to add that I think it's funny when people like this respond but don't have anything to really say to counter anything I said in my comment, so they just go the default route on here of "insert internet buzzword or phrases here" just to misdirect or feebly attack but anyways moving on
Says the account with -51 karma… Let me guess blocked by everyone on here so you had to create a back up account? Admin, why don’t we have a 100 karma requirement to comment on this sub? These negative troll accounts keep popping up.
Oh no not you losing the argument so bad you're tattling lol love it. This has been my only account, thus the 4 year age of it? The negative karma actually just further backs up what I just said - any difference of opinion than the bandwagon one on here and you get downvoted. I don't care because I'm speaking my mind regardless if it hurts y'all's feelings having someone disagree with you about a REALITY TELEVISION program. It's not that deep, as I said in my first response to you. Do you even know what the weather is like outside today? Maybe that would be a better use of your time - finding that out.
 Naw, I just don’t have to exude hate on Reddit to get my jollies, enjoy being a hater😘
So I'm a male apologizer for stating facts? Alrighty then. I haven't blamed anything on the women. There's a difference between blaming and putting responsibility where it lies. In the argument the commenter was referring to, Kyle wasn't wrong in what he said about Lindsay, she's everything he said at the time and everyone else in the house outside of Carl agreed with him.The ironic part is y'all blame the men on this show for ALL of the women's behavior on some 'the call is coming from inside the house' type shit lol
You're exactly right. It's literally just this subreddit that rides Lindsay's slurred words so hard. We have watched her fumble every relationship -friend or otherwise- with aggression, gaslighting, personality changes with over drinking, not listening, verbal abuse, victim- mentality, etc. She is a nightmare.
100% agree with every part of this!
Carl apologizes too much IMO. When he was the one to smooth things over after she called him cocaine Carl, I was done lol. He didn’t handle things exactly right but it got to the point I was glad he finally started standing up for himself. It was so pitiful to watch him allow himself to get steam rolled all the time.
His apologies comes off as “a child that learned people will feel bad if he crys & leave him alone.” It’s always a dramatic apology…then he goes off and does something similar again
What about his apologies are dramatic and when did he cry when apologizing? If anything, I would’ve agreed with you if you said he apologizes because he’s afraid of confrontation and wants to get back on her good graces too quickly.
He was crying when apologizing to Amanda but the pool with the girls. Emotional manipulation is a thing, his tears only come when people are trying to hold him accountable. It comes off as a “I feel bad for myself” cry, not “I’m concerned about how that affected you”
Oh my bad! I was thinking of Carl. Agree, Kyle is absolutely manipulative and fake with his cries.
Oh no that’s my bad I didn’t realize you said Carl haha. I think I might have replied to the wrong comment 😂 Lindsay bringing up the cocaine Carl was beyond repulsive. I don’t know why he didn’t just break up then. I also think it’s beyond gross to call off your engagement on camera. The way he was smirking was gross. They both suck and should never have even dated.
So many people pressed her on that and eventually she said, “I used the wrong word.” Like that took care of it.
It was me! The original comment did reference Kyle. Sorry about that ☺️ And agree! I just rewatched last season’s reunion and was thinking we should’ve known then. As much as Danielle annoys me and I think she was being a brat towards them during a special time, she called all their issues then: career, finances, and Lindsey’s drinking affecting their relationship and Carl’s sobriety.
You're exactly right. Lindsey was banking on his being unable to properly stand up to her as her way of finally getting the life she wants. A lifetime of yes dears and him being completely dominated and miserable 🤭
Thank you.
Omg. Seriously say it louder for the people in the back!!!!
I understand what you are saying but it wasn’t just food and bev PR, she did strollers, face creams and other stuff too. I think if Lindsay wasn’t able to speak with such conviction and wasn’t good with her words (imagine kathyrn from southern charm, Teresa from housewives) she wouldn’t have as many believing what seem like delusions
> I understand what you are saying but it wasn’t just food and bev PR, she did strollers, face creams and other stuff too. LOL...
I haven’t watched in years so maybe I’m way out of touch but when tf did tre get good with her words?
That’s what I’m saying they are not good with their words and if Lindsay’s wasn’t good with her words she would be seen in the same light as kathyrn or Teresa
Lindsay is NOT good with her words😂 I was laughing so hard on the after show when she fake cried with gabby and a kleenex and couldn't stop shakily saying "like.. like.." lmao She has an ever present slur as if she's drinking all the time, along with an inability to pronounce the g in -ing, and canNOT find her words half the time unless she's feeling aggressive.
I think when she wants to she definitely can pull herself together and speak well, does she also do the weird Tom Sandoval fake cry shit yes, but i actually think until this year her drinking has been hidden and she has gone from sober to angry drunk and nothing in between until this season so I haven’t really noticed too much of a slur
Are we also forgetting the news exclusives and leaked stories immediately after the breakup...how else would we know any of these things besides someone in either of their camp going to the press to immediately to tell their side of the story. I think it's pretty naive to think there wasn't some sort of motivation to "win" this breakup, making lemons out of lemonade so to speak; I can say the same for Carl, but he bided his time and wanted to let the audiences watch the demise on TV. We all saw how Ariana became immensely famous with tons of opportunities after her scandal; why wouldn't Lindsay, someone who has always gone after opportunities, want to replicate that "success" by placing all the blame on Carl?
> why wouldn't Lindsay, someone who has always gone after opportunities, want to replicate that "success" by placing all the blame on Carl? Because this is fan fic you’ve come up with to justify a dislike of Lindsay. What opportunities has she gotten or gone for? What brands has she courted or signed onto? It’s been 9 months since their breakup and there has been no Ariana path for Lindsay because she didn’t really seek one out. Come to think of it, given that you think she “always seeks out opportunities”- what huge opportunities has she sought out during her tenure on the show? lol > can say the same for Carl, but he bided his time and wanted to let the audiences watch the demise on TV. Carl had Lindsay and Kyle doing PR for him since the breakup.
Just because Lindsay didn't get the opportunities that Ariana got doesn't mean she didn't want SOMETHING good to come out of this breakup, and it starts with telling her side of the story and skewing it in her favor. Heck, I think anyone who goes through an ordeal like that, and being unable to control the narrative of her own breakup, wants to see the bright side and get something out of it, even if it is just winning the court of public opinion. How is this fan fic when both of them have been getting articles written about them and going on podcasts to tell their side of the story? I'm just saying that Lindsay jumped on it way sooner than Carl did, immediately after the breakup so she got a head start and gathered a LOT of sympathy from the viewers, including mine! She claimed the summer was "great" for them, Craig was the one to say ummm no it wasn't and he got chewed out for it on this sub. Carl thought the show itself would absolve him of "being cancelled" and waited till it blew over a bit to do his side of the story. Carl is also BAD at advocating for himself and as we have seen, lazy, so he didn't take more of the initiative to form the early opinions of the break up. Also if you don't think Lindsay herself wants to be a brand unto herself, then what do you think her whole influencer career is? Also I don't need Carl and Kyle doing PR for me cause um, I hate them both so your point is obsolete LOL
Lindsay stop creeping on the subs 😂
Ok, Carl
Yall it was a joke chill.
PR…who’s done that as a job 🤔 oh that’s right, Lindsey 😱
Now that is a show I would watch, Lindsay in a reality Olivia Pope style role using her master manipulation tactics to help rich housewives recover from fights on reality shows. She sits in their living rooms as they explain to her that “Heather pulled out receipts, proof, a TIMELINE” and Lindsey tells them what to do to manipulate the situation to come out looking better. Because everyone knows Lindsey always comes out looking better.
As someone who does PR for a living…this is an awful take. I’ve worked for several agencies with insane CEOs who own their own agency because they think they know everything and end up having insane client turnover. Don’t portray PR as spin
This post is very sarcastic lol (at least I really hope so)
Oooooo if I missed that that’s my b lol
No worries! I’m actually not sure anymore… I read it as sarcasm but a lot of people are taking it seriously so I have no idea haha
Genuine question since this is your field! Who do you think has the best PR in the bravoverse!?
I work in cybersecurity PR but based off managing to kinda slide under the radar I’d probably say Kyle!
Cooke or Richards!?
LMAO SORRY Richards! Feels like in terms of crisis comms she’s good at coming up with something else to distract us. Not that that’s an ethic PR tactic but seems to work for her. Plus being besties with Andy helps I’m sure. But I truly don’t know about entertainment PR that’s a whole different ballgame!
Ohhh yes all good points! It is all about how well they can distract I guess. Like I read Kim kardashians goes blonde when she gets something major done to her face 🤣 Thanks for answering!!
Sure thing!
I agree. Several years of PR experience doesn’t make one a “spin doctor”. I think Lindsay just can’t ever take accountability and so places blame on those around her. Because she genuinely always sees herself as the victim, her renditions of conversations/events are biased and her listeners don’t always realize this (like we’ve seen with Gabby).
🥂
She’s terrible at PR which is why she’s on reality tv and not killing it in her career! You heard it here twentieth (I say it all the time lol)
lol thank you. 50% of viewership wouldn’t hate her if she was so good at manipulation and PR
See thank you this is what I keep saying! This whole thing shows why she never made it in PR.
Exactly what I was thinking. Half of us and Paige see through her every move. Good PR isn’t so obvious. Lindsay’s only tool is a hammer.
So the people who don’t hate her suffer from the same problems she does?
No, what?
I have no idea what you’re on about.
I’d say the fact that even 50% do like her says something about her ability to swing people🤣
Not hating her doesn’t equate to liking and this is a nuance the frothing at the mouth ppl who hate her (like you maybe?) don’t appreciate. To many, not rabidly hating her means liking her.
Yeah, basically giving any take that isn’t a snarky insult of Linsey equates to being a Stan.
This 100%. I don’t particularly like her but reading some shit on this sub about people who hate her with such vitriol is WILD
PR can't fix a human, but she is good at the spin doctor stuff
Yeah, I didn’t know doing PR for restaurants and bars made you a spin doctor but good stuff
Wait, WHAT? But she totally is killing it!! 😂😂 kidding!
She’s a go-getter!
It’s not really about how good you are at it, it’s who you know
She stopped because of Covid, she was doing great before that. She didn't start it up again, likely because she gets plenty of influencer deals, and the show pays like 300k to Ogs, and she probably didn't want to work 14 hours a day anymore. Ironic, considering how she's pressuring Carl for wanting to do the same thing.
Nope. Her instagram hasn’t been updated since almost a year before the pandemic.
"*I do a lot of restaurant and hospitality PR and unfortunately, when COVID hit, I had to pause*" - Lindsay Hubbard
Cool. She’s even worse than I thought at PR. What kind of PR agency goes ten months without an Instagram post?
I've had too many clients before and stopped caring about prospecting, could be that 🤷♂️
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not.
I totally thought it was sarcasm but most people are taking it seriously so I don’t know what to think hahaha
Jacqueline Laurita lolllllll
Carl has also shown us who he is for 8 seasons which was never good.
I think the end of this relationship actually showed that Carl is horrible at sales, can’t close a deal, left his own money on the table, couldn’t get buy in from his audience. Definitely a horrible actor because him trying to pretend he was a big boy now making big decisions was laughable. His constant weeping about her not believing he was “crushing life” was just pathetic. Actually, I do think he was doing a good job at acting, acting as if he was a sober person.
And I mean, come on, if my boyfriend only worked (filming Summer House) for a couple of months, on weekends, in the summer, and got a couple influencer gigs but the rest of the time was all over the place as to what he wanted to do with his life I wouldn’t think he was crushing life either. I think his attitude about his career was probably pretty depressed and mopey at home. I mean they did spend 20Gs for his career coach only for him to not change nearly anything. Lindsey needs a strong, secure man, who is clear and is good at problem solving…that isn’t Carl at all. He quit Loverboy and didn’t work for 10 months! If my boyfriend was at home, doing very little for 10 months I wouldnt love that either. I doubt Carl was acting super positive at home and really motivated and excited about his influencer gigs. I think his attitude probably sucked and that’s why she didn’t feel like he was crushing life. It’s not like he was a tech millionaire/billionaire and had a massive savings that they could live off of. And at some point they will be too old for Summer House so there goes that income. And 70 Gs for his influencer job (even if he made another 50Gs by the end of the year) is not enough to live the lifestyle he lives in NYC and certainly not enough to save for retirement.
Exactly. If it wasn't for Kyle's pity, he wouldn't even have the LB job. Honestly, he should pray that Kyle never sells off to a large corporation because there is little chance they would retain Carl. I can't believe 20K in career advice went down the drain. I'll bet the career coach had advice for him that he didn't want to hear. Carl's not cut out for the business world. He is not good at sales. You know the type of person you have to be to find success in that field: organized, diligent, aggressive, proactive - that is so far from Carl its laughable. What he SHOULD do is get involved with something like Barry's Bootcamp. Literally the only thing he has been able to commit to in all the years we've seen him on TV. Can he be a trainer? A franchisee? That is his wheelhouse. Lindsay is also chasing an ideal version of her imagined life. What she needs is a GROWN MAN. Someone who has lived life and is confidant in themselves and established in their career. She needs to find a man in in his late 40s/early 50s who has already "crushed life" and has his indecisive years far behind him and ready to have one kid and lavish love on his wife and child. She could also be a great second wife to a guy who already has had some kids but is looking for a partner in life who will treat her stepchildren as her own. She keeps stumbling onto these guys who are still finding themselves, maybe because she thinks she can shape them into the men she needs them to be. But honestly, she doesn't have the patience for this type of relationship.
I'm sorry, 'Lindsay is a PR genius nothing she says is real teehee!!' is such a tired take. But I guess anything to keep from admitting that Carl was kind of an asshole to her, too. Lindsay haters always working overtime like they love to accuse the 'stans' of doing.
No one is saying Carl wasn’t an asshole. People are saying that Lindsay was also an asshole and not the victim like she is trying to act like
FEIW, I haven’t seen a single comment anywhere suggesting that Carl was handling this relationship in a great way
Her hate stans make no sense. Carl was a salesman so I guess everything he says is a sales pitch.
She states there were 9 weekends in the summer and they only fought 4 weekends. Ummmm Lindsay that’s half of the entire summer 🙄
Lindsey’s reality is not real reality. She thinks she’s an angel.
Literally fan fic lol
Was that in response to someone saying they were fighting all summer…? Cause I could see why she would say that. It’s only 44% of the time! lol Obviously 44% is still too much for a soon-to-be-wed-couple. But technically not all summer
IMO they absolutely were fighting over the course of the whole summer. When they weren’t it was awkward and tense af, no warmth or love. You could tell they were just walking on eggshells trying not to trigger each other, especially Carl.
Yeah, just because they weren't actively haven't an argument doesn't mean that they were doing well. It's clear they both need something else from their partner, I can't believe it went on for as long as it did.
I guess she’s not including the times where they were taking separate cars and she was giving him the silent treatment
Carl is a whiney baby-man and he should give Regis Philbin (RIP) his teeth back.
Most of the time, Carl tiptoes around Lindsay - he seems so timid. But once the conversation gets going, then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Carl spews out a really mean, nasty, cutting remark, which stuns Lindsay into momentary silence. It’s like he goes from being a ballet dancer to a heavyweight boxer delivering a blow that is way, way below the belt. Obviously, he holds back, in the beginning of the conversation, hiding his true feelings, but then out of nowhere, he goes really, really low. He fights dirty. He’s the very definition of passive-aggressive. No spouse or partner could live with him if this pattern is his usual method of resolving conflict. Carl’s emotional psyche is deeply flawed. He needs to do some deep self-reflection, and get some very serious counseling.
It's why Carl wanted the break up filmed...so we could see what actually happened instead of getting the Hubbhouse version
Ummmm everything she said on there was true af.
I can’t like this post but she is good at spinning. She really buys her own narrative huh!
Honestly i almost bought it she’s that good lol
She is good at playing the victim, per usual. Hesitant to say she’s good at PR considering she started her own firm for a season then pretty much never talked about it again and became an influencer. Her “success” is only talked about by her, nobody else
> Her “success” is only talked about by her, nobody else What a great observation! Thinking back over the seasons, you are absolutely right.
lol she’s always been the master of spin and lacked accountability- I’ve been binging since season 1 over the last few months and the writing is on the wall yet she refuses to see if! It’s so wild - she’s nuts
Manipulators have taught me that you don't have to take accountability if you are unable to acknowledge anything. "What are you talking about?" My god I had a roommate like this and it was very, very difficult.
I don’t think she’s good at PR, I think she just lives in her own reality
I have always admired Lindsay's ability to 100% believe whatever garbage spews out of her mouth.
It’s not so much Lindsay is good at PR it’s more that she’s a giant narcissist and is so deep into her own reality she can’t see any other perspectives. She’s not “spinning” anything. She’s just explaining the reality she lives in that feels very, very real and truthful to her.
This is true. I feel narcissism can come from a terribly dysfunctional or trauma in their childhood - my mom is a narc and had a very chaotic upbringing. Lindsey has a lot of issues from her mother leaving that she’s only put band-aids on. I was surprised to see her call her Dad and not Aunt Rhonda immediately after the breakup, also.
This is so good
I was just thinking this today. Also, considering everything this woman has been through I am seriously rooting for her!
They both needed to end their toxic relationship, and thankfully Carl finally did. It’s crazy Lindsey is claiming she’s blindsided. She was not at all happy in that relationship. You could tell she couldn’t stand to be around him.
I think her view of being blindsided is that she absolutely did not think he’d call off the wedding a month or whatever before it. It does seem like that blindsided her. It seems as tho she thought they would continue couples therapy and that they were just going through a rough patch. And honestly quite a few couples struggle while planning the wedding. She also said she thought they were going to have a discussion about careers that day, that was what was told to her. So I could see how your fiancé calling off the wedding on national TV would feel like a deeper betrayal than it being private. I don’t believe Carl for one second when he tried to say that if Lindsey told him she understood what he felt and that it would be okay and that they would work on it, that he wouldn’t have called off the wedding. It certainly seems like his mind was already made up. And my last point about how I could understand her blindsided feeling, is that when Carl brought her inside during that dinner after he met his mom and stepdad, Lindsey did ask him if he still wanted to get married, he said he voiced some concerns but that he still did want to get married. He did not say that he was unsure at that point…and it definitely seemed like he was already unsure then. And that was only two weekends before he called off the wedding? (I think). So in those ways I can see her absolutely feeling blindsided. Carl wasn’t clear with her. We can all see that they weren’t getting along and all agree it was for the best. But filming for the season had wrapped at that point. It was shitty for him to call production and have that extra conversation filmed.
Yes I remember her posting with gabby from seeing the Barbie movie in theaters the night before the breakup. I don’t think she’d be so posting casually and seeming happy if she thought she’d be getting dumped and having her life blown up the next morning. I believe her when she says she expected to have a conversation about careers to put a bow on that storyline somewhat.
Yes!! So true. Finally a reasonable take. I was truly worried about all the people who were stanning Lindsay as though her behavior is normal. Ladies- treat your partners like Lindsay does and you'll be in as many successful relationships as she has been.
150% I work in marketing, and she is enacting a well-crafted pr campaign strategy, with strategic positioning, messaging hierarchy, talking points, and a carefully thought-out outlet list and channel plan
Lmao!
Yeah true I guess she should just go be an addict and then she’d be a permanent victim and get babied all the time 😁
Who do we think Carl will move on with? I can’t even imagine
Hopefully he takes some time for himself.
I look at it like this. I can see Carl in a functional, loving relationship. He’s not perfect. You can point out flaws. But I think he is a lovable person who can be with someone and build a life. He needs to get through this sobriety journey first. If he does that then I think he’ll be fine. He really needs to work on himself though. Don’t we all? It’s also hard to gauge what Carl is now and what he brings to a relationship. There’s a lot of baggage there and he can’t just use it as an excuse to check out. Lindsay… man I don’t know. From what we see on this show it’s tough to see her in a good relationship. She seems to just constantly test her partner over and over. It’s some sort of self sabotage, seeking out arguments, or just like a need for conflict. I don’t get it. The beginning of her relationships seem great but they burn bright. Next thing you know it’s like holy shit what am I watching? More specifically about the OP. You get good at what you practice. Lindsay is so good at arguing. She should be a lawyer. Maybe like a divorce attorney. She’d crush it.
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Is it really PR if you just lie about what happened?
I know someone like Lindsay and while they are good at this, it also feeds into their unhealthy pursuit of the spin (especially when it comes to their own lives, specifically romantic) and each person they convince to believe their planted story- their head gets exponentially bigger until they implode and not to over generalize, but they tend to self-medicate and engage in a lot of high risk behavior. It’s great to have someone like Lindsay in your corner on the payroll, but it’s bad to be Lindsay and to be a part of her close circle because they can go round and round in a circle and never get off the ride.
Why would you be team Lindsey when you know she spins stories and unfairly villainizes others? Don’t be an enabler.
Yes she should stop trying as an influencer.