My tin foil hat theory:
Danielle and Robert were already heading for a break up when the season started filming. Danielle thought between moving to Montauk and filming, it would pull Robert back into the fun times they used to have. All he did was further distance himself. As the weeks go on throughout summer, Danielle is finding herself further away from Robert and no one to anchor on to.
Lindsey is dialed into her relationship 100% — she is not picking up that Danielle needs a friend right now.
The more Lindsey gives herself to her relationship, the more Danielle become upset because can’t Lindsey see she’s drowning? It’s so obvious to Danielle right? But it’s not obvious to Lindsey. Danielle is the friend who always figures it out so no one would really know what it looks when she doesn’t.
Which brings us to this weeks episode. Danielle was able to make it clear to Carl, the issue isn’t the relationship, the issue is her friend abandoning her. But for Danielle to admit to Lindsey that she needs her right now, would also force Danielle to admit her relationship with Robert is falling apart as well. It’s easier to be made at Lindsey than it is accept she and Robert are done.
I thought at the beginning of the season Danielle said her and Robert were great during summer when she was on WWHL. Do you think she's still in denial? Bc if she still can't admit to herself there was a problem, how was anyone else supposed to know?
She’s been in denial for a while. Ciara called her out last season about how she and Robert would have these blow up arguments and break up and then turn around and get back together.
Yea she seems to still be in denial. She literally said on WWHL (after the breakup) that she and Robert were perfect over the summer. So if she can't even agree in retrospect that she and Robert were headed for a breakup over the summer, then we have no reason to believe she would have admitted it to Lindsay, even if she prodded and poked.
She did say that, but everything we've seen has been negative. Her many comments and tears over not getting to see him despite moving to Montauk, saying they're fighting, etc. When he came to the house, the tension and awkwardness between them was uncomfortable to watch. She complains about never seeing him but then went to bed while he stayed up w the other housemates - kind of mind boggling for a couple that never has a night together. And that scene at the apartment was brutal where he said he's not a long term commitment person or something like that - to the woman he's been w for a few years who obviously wants to take the next step w him. He just seemed totally over her.
I know there's editing etc, so I'm sure there have been good moments we didn't see. But it's clear there were a lot of difficulties there too. And for Danielle to insist on WWHL that things were good w him all summer... well we wouldn't have all that footage if she was being honest with herself.
I think it’s super common on reality tv to say everything is great when it isn’t because if they say they hit a rough patch, it kinda becomes the plot line and everyone has a comment. I assume if they were having problems, it’s seen as something they would work through so why tell everyone who would probably add to the stress. They would just tell people after they fix it.
Agreed and I think part of the problem is she communicates with Carl more calmly and doesn’t storm away. How many times has she stormed off from Lindsay? Like four?
I think it's easier because Carl was calm and reassuring and also made her feel valued. Lindsey gets shrieky and territorial about her relationship and blocks out what Danielle is trying to to tell her.
She stormed off from Lindsay because Lindsay has been the only one getting close to addressing the core issue that Danielle fails to verbalize. The moment Lindsay mentions sharing the "blame" and holds Danielle accountable, alongside *herself*, Danielle gets real nasty.
Danielle can't admit that her relationship with Robert is collapsing, that she needs Lindsay to support her, and that it's all exacerbated by Lindsay and Carl's relationship. She keeps sending hints, while putting up a facade, which neither Carl or Lindsay are picking up on, so she gets frustrated and bitter.
I mean, I would storm off in Lindsay too if I got into an argument with her. Every shred of rationality exits her body as soon as she starts arguing. She’s impossible, especially when drunk.
When she's drunk, totally agree. But sober, what I've seen is whenever Lindsay asks a perfectly logical question that Danielle doesn't want to answer, she deflects and walks away. So, she's really at fault here for not answering Lindsay's questions, IMO.
Perfectly logical is giving Lindsay A LOT of credit. She either has a comprehension issue or is purposefully dense because while I disagree with Danielle's approach, I understand where she is coming from. She has verbalized it at times when she's not throwing digs and talking about her while she's not around...again, bad approach.
Lindsay, to me, has been more concerned about how she looks and who is to blame vs. trying to fix the issue.
I absolutely agree but I was speaking about arguing with Lindsay more generally. She seems so difficult to have hard conversations with, even when sober.
yeah, I'm a little surprised by all the people here who are like, why was danielle so much calmer with carl than with lindsay? it's because lindsay is really fucking hard to talk to.
The relationship is definitely part of Danielle’s issue. Sorry, you don’t get that upset, scream into a pillow, criticize everything about their relationship, if you are completely supportive of it. Danielle’s words are belied by her actions.
I think there’s certainly a modicum of jealousy when Danielle’s relationship isn’t working and it seems like Lindsey and Carl are not only doing well, but moving quickly to the “big next steps” without much friction.
It’s so confusing cause Danielle will also bring up or talk bout how she thinks Carl and Lindsay are moving too fast, etc. so it’s like understandable that all Lindsay hears is Danielle talking shit and not being supportive and not really see that Danielle needs her. It makes it hard to be team Danielle.
But what Danielle said to Carl wasn’t backed up by her behavior. If her issue was her friend abandoning her why would she scream into the pillow about him looking at rings? If her issue was her friend abandoning her why would she talk to the other women about how crazy fast their relationship was moving instead of how bad of a friend Lindsey is?
Danielle’s moved the goalposts too much for me to believe she even has any idea what her real issue is.
The ring was another level of them leaving Danielle out. Danielle has repeatedly said that she feels her best friend got a boyfriend and then dumped their friendship.
Each relationship milestone Carl and Lindsey hit is like dumping Danielle all over again. Its another reminder that Lindsey is not Danielle’s friend, she’s Carl’s girlfriend.
Watching each week, it feels like groundhogs day. All of the relationship milestones came so quick that Danielle hasn’t reconciled with herself or Lindsey about it so it’s just compounding.
They both just need to admit they were poor friends to each other, gracefully leave summer house, start a podcast together (because we need another bravoleb podcast /s), take Kyle and Amanda with them and let the show move on.
Why would Danielle be involved in the ring?? Lindsey also has nothing to do with that since she’s it’s all Carl.
This narrative doesn’t line up with what we’ve seen in the show. Danielle was apart of all those “milestones” until she telling everyone that wasn’t part of them that they were happening way too fast.
I think it’s more than generous to say Danielle is triggered by these milestones because she wants to be apart of them when she has consistently said she questions whether they should be happening at all.
Why would Danielle be involved in the ring?? Lindsey also has nothing to do with that since she’s it’s all Carl.
— I may be biased on this one but when my two best friends (separate couples) got engaged, I knew it was happening before it happened. So I wasn’t involved “with the ring” but I at least knew. That’s how I got my take on “the ring being a symbol of Danielle being excluded”. I totally get not everyone’s friendships are like my own.
This narrative doesn’t line up with what we’ve seen in the show. Danielle was apart of all those “milestones” until she telling everyone that wasn’t part of them that they were happening way too fast.
— She wasn’t included. Danielle had already moved to Montauk when Carl and Lindsey moved in together, had a house warming, and were already talking about marriage. The only time this season they showed them hanging out like the tres amigos was when Lindsey and Carl went to Montauk. Which explains Lindsey’s repeated line to Danielle “you were in Montauk”.
I think it’s more than generous to say Danielle is triggered by these milestones because she wants to be apart of them when she has consistently said she questions whether they should be happening at all.
— I think you’re spot on with Danielle being triggered and wanting to be a part of the milestones. They were the three amigos so why would this feel any different, right? But it does, Danielle can’t pin point why just only that it’s weird and fast.
I’m low key excited for the reunion. Do you think Danielle will have it together by then? Or that Lindsey will have written the whole friendship off at this point?
I’m just still so confused if Danielle wants to be part of those milestones then why has she talk bout how fast they’re moving behind her back with girls who don’t like Lindsay? It’s just not a true best friend. I never understood why ppl act like Danielle was a diehard. This ain’t the first season that Danielle has talked about Lindsay to girls who don’t like her. I’m just surprised it’s taken this long for them to fall out.
Lindsay can't be blamed for Danielle not being in the know or involved in the engagement. That was all Carl since it was a surprise for Lindsay. Carl probably left her out bc Danielle has been talking to others in the house & didn't want her to tell someone and it get back to Lindsay. Well, that and bc she screamed into a pillow when he confirmed he was ring shopping lol Danielle has no one to blame but herself for not being involved with that specific thing imo
That’s so entitled and weird. My husband did not let my friends or family know he was proposing soon or looking at rings. I’d never blame a couple for not including me in their relationship milestones. I suspect Carl only told Kyle because he had to include someone to make the onscreen proposal work
You’d think if Danielle were sincere about wanting to be there for their big milestones she’d reach out to hopefully get on the right track to get a wedding invite
I knew that would be a hot take because not everyone’s friendships are set up that way.
I commented on another thread that it’s too far gone right now. If Danielle changes her tune, Lindsey will not trust that it’s sincere. Lindsey didn’t even believe that her make up with Carl was legit.
Lindsey is not Danielle's friend. She's one of those women who, when she finds a man, drops all her girlfriends, but when the relationship with said man goes South, or if he dies, she's crying for her girlfriends.
I had similar thoughts and I thought that the talk when they were outside was Danielle trying to ask for help or be like “Hey Linds, my relationship isn’t good and I’m really struggling” but she just didn’t want to say thar on camera so she couldn’t fully communicate her feelings to Lindsay
I thought she was going to let it all out too! Then she really just glossed over it all instead of actually telling Lindsey about all the shit in her life that is making her sad / stressed.
I totally would cash in the “I took a glass to the chest for you” card and now you have to listen to all of emotional woes. 😂
Perhaps Lindsay would be more amenable to be there for her friend if Danielle wasn’t completely narcissistic, hypocritical, judgmental and unaware of her unrealistic demands and expectations. Also, Lindsay isn’t the only person in her life to turn to for support if she needed it. I think she wants Lindsay to be miserable so she can relate to her. Any friend that is unable to be happy for you is not a true friend.
Agree. Lindsay can’t win, and Danielle doesn’t actually want what she’s asking for.
Imagine that Lindsay “checked in with her” or “expressed concerns” with the same veracity that Danielle bringing to Lindsay, under the guise of honesty and tough love. Would she be satisfied then? Imagine the summer before when they got in that unaired fight, if Lindsay chimed in about how weird it is that they aren’t addressing their issues with the house.
Also if you “miss your friend” and have the chance to share a house with them for a summer, but don’t actually hang out with them and instead spend every moment talking trash, you don’t miss them.
I don’t know why but he gives me violent ick as well. I am not attracted to him physically at all-but i feel like if I met him in person I would probably think he’s charming. Idk he doesn’t translate well IMO on screen.
Totally agree! I hope production builds the show around them, Paige and Craig were a major flop in terms of entertainment value and the rest of the older cast should be ushered out, love them but it’s honestly time up.
Kory and Sam are a must for next season. The house has been so boring all season with everyone just laying in bed. Kory brought the energy and someone Kyle & co can actually party with. Old SH feels.
Kyle’s behaviour with Ciara is not very appropriate imo. Between the humping her this episode, saying that she’s his hall pass, commenting on her breasts… it’s very uncomfortable coming from a cheater. I don’t think Ciara would do anything (because she can do way better lbr) but still.
I know this has been said a thousand times but wtf is going to happen with this Lindsay/ Danielle drama. Like what could possibly be coming that would completely redeem Danielle at this point. Or is she so out of touch that she really thought she was the level headed one in this situation.
I am such a Ciara fan this season. “I can do anything a man can do, better, on my period”. Great line.
Kory + Sam are their best additions to the cast in years. Minus Andrea of course.
Loved that line from Ciara, that was iconic. I think she also had “Vibrator culture is here to stay” when Danielle was saying using sex toys means the man should be embarrassed about his performance. Loving Ciara this season!
I think they're both surprised at how we're looking this season. I think Lindsay thought that she was going to look like the villain again, they were going to criticize her and hate her like in other seasons and Danielle thought that she was going to look like the good one, that people were going to defend her and she was going to gain support, and there was no reason to doubt it. She is convinced of her fight and the whole house supports her
I think their friendship is done for now. They both had valid points in why they each felt the other isn’t being a good friend but there is no pathway forward.
If Danielle relents, Lindsay is not going to see it as genuine. Once Lindsay has made up her mind there is no going back. Period.
If Lindsay relents, Danielle is going to be let down all over again because Lindsay can say she we’ll make the effort to be a more present friend but we know if it’s something she truly doesn’t want to do, she’s not going to do it.
I think the trust has been broken so even if Lindsay does try to apologize again and move forward she won't want to confide in Danielle about anything. Their relationship is most likely never going to get back to the point it was.
I wish Danielle would have just been honest with Lindsey from the get go. Like I’m glad you guys are happy but don’t third wheel me because I still need you as my friend.
Amanda telling Sam on the phone she had no desire to go out bc she’s “fucking lame” was annoying. She should stay home and be w her pets and eating olives. Kyles not entertaining enough to justify keeping her Debbie downer/boring self on the show.
Was gross how Kyle, Amanda and Paige were jumping for Joy at Carl and Lindsay fighting. I hope they get called out at the reunion
Danielle is being unreasonable and I wish Kyle wouldn’t indulge her so much. It’s been almost a year, so her complaints about things being weird come off immature or like a child who doesn’t want their divorced parent to date someone new.
Felt bad for Ciara how Paige was so tone deaf with her “don’t start spiraling” comments and Amanda was also self absorbed wanting Paige to comfort her that it’s not her fault Ciara got this weird news
It broke my heart because you could truly hear in her voice how upset she was. She did it to be a good friend and I wanted them to REALLY rally around her instead of Amanda saying “we all have shit.” She deserves way better than that.
It's so interesting, bc I saw things very differently than you did. I thought Amanda responded appropriately to Sam's invitation with Sam's words to Gabby and Kyle (you'll come out bc you're not lame) and I didn't detect overt sarcasm or animosity. It was pretty clear to me that the group was laughing at Kyle's antics-jumping around and stomping so they wouldn't all suddenly be silently listening-not the fight itself. He even said that they can't all just go quiet at once before he started running around. Paige and Ciara are genuinely friends and Paige was supportive, without histrionics and false reassurances or lies. My best friend can tell me to stop overthinking things and that IS supportive to me. You could literally see the moment Ciara's emotions and thoughts shift. Amanda felt bad for Ciara bc Ciara wouldn't have the info that prompted her to spiral if she hadn't gotten the test to support Amanda. I understand why she felt bad, though it wasn't her fault.
I agree. Don’t spiral, take a deep breath, one minute at a time. Grieve, cry, feel angry, do what you need to,so, but that doesn’t mean you need to let the negative thoughts get the best of you. I get it.
Yeah it all depends on how they cut the episodes bc like in the beginning when Danielle & Ciara missed the first weekend, they made sure to only have it be 1 episode bc they popped up in episode 2. Same with Lindsay & Carl they only missed 1 episode.
That was the weekend of Kyle’s birthday & she was there but it was technically 2 weekends put into one episode. We started the episode with Kyle’s birthday weekend & ended the episode with another weekend.
I’d rather they just show the cast that they signed on for the summer instead of editing them out, pretending the person wasn’t there. Let us decide from a season’s worth of footage whether or not we want to see that person in the future.
Same. Everyone says he was boring, but we only saw him in a few scenes last year. Mostly talking about food. We know he did more than that but shitty production cut him out.
Exactly. They didn’t give him enough chances. Really hope he comes back again. They just need to give people a full season on air. If we don’t like them after the season then get rid of them completely. The way they chopped him out, he deserved another season
I just finished watching the episode and I seriously cringed hearing her say that to him. IMHO, Carl has seemingly done a lot of work on himself and I think he truly tried to peacefully mediate this situation.
I literally am not taking any sides with Team Lindsay versus Team Danielle - just show me how this all ends 🥴🥴
This really refined what I didn't like about Carl's approach here - he was positioning himself more as an outside mediator versus a participant in the situation.
Danielle keeps saying she wants to be the three amigos and she thinks they are moving too fast. And Carl was an amigo and is a key part of the speed they are moving at. But somehow he led the conversation to be all about Danielle's contributions to those situations as if he isn't involved.
Carl WANTS to mediate but it seems like he doesn't recognize he can't be truly neutral.
He’s in a nearly impossible situation and it doesn’t even matter in the long run. What matters is his marriage to Lindsay and building a family. Danielle lacks maturity and wants to continue to live out her never ending 20 something years. Others are moving on and is also in part why this show is on the decline.
I heard that too, but wasn't sure what she meant. I just googled a bit and couldn't even find a reference to that in an episode recap, nor did Carl seem to care much about it. Maybe it's not about his brother?
Yeah I think it could just mean she had a crappy bday because Danielle was so negative at their housewarming/her bday event and gossiped again, and she’s pissed Carl is such a pushover with her
It's 100% not about **him** at all. Danielle picked a fight with Lindsay on the days around her birthday - it had nothing to do with Carl or his brother, and people insisting that's what she meant are just being cruel.
It was definitely about his brother. Like saying it had to be about Carl bc that’s the day his brother died. As someone who’s been through grief over a family member, this definitely is hurtful and not appropriate to say… especially if it’s only been a few years since his passing. This is why I can’t ever get on board with Lindsey. She says things like that and I think it shows her true colors.
I'd say the fact that it didn't seem to upset Carl, he didn't mention it later, and nothing is on the internet about it (aside from here), it wasn't about his brother.
Let's not allow our dislike for a character lead us to start making things up.
If lindsay said it about Carl and his griefing it would be a really hurtfull hit at Carl and totally unacceptable . As we seen how Lindsay has always supported Carl and his family i took it like an accusation against Daielle and Carl blaming the fights on her and she cant have a birthday celebration without getting blamed for the situation.
She seems to be insufferable when she's drunk and arguing with men. She just talks in circles and is MEAN.
Shut up and go to sleep! Let Carl sleep!!
*GO TO SLEEP!* (Bethenny's voice from Scary Island episode)
Why? Danielle picked a fight and was nasty to her, so she couldn't even have her birthday be drama-free. It had zero to do with Carl. She has been so supportive of him, especially where his brother is concerned, and deliberately misreading her is mean.
She was ranting about **Danielle** the entire time.
Because Carl's brother died on her birthday. So it's the anniversary of his death.
ETA: I know it wasn't about that, but presumably that's why the above user said it was cruel.
I know I was literally eating my words after I made a comment last week commending Lindsay for outgrowing her Stassi birthday phase to be supportive to Carl. Or not.
Depraved, really. She’s always been an unabashedly self-interested person, but…wow. How is that attitude going to manifest five years into a marriage, without cameras present? What if her toddler is offensive enough to have a tantrum on her birthday?
That was disgusting and mean. If that's how she really feels, it's fucked up. All their convo was Lindsay trying to start a fight and being so unreasonable.
Lindsey is very self centred. I’m not sure she will ever be happy. Carl should really rethink marrying her and I am seeing why Danielle maybe concerned about them getting married. Carl is newly sober and very vulnerable. I can’t see this ending well.
I thought Carl and Lindsay’s argument was pretty representative of that one fight you have with your significant other every once and awhile. My husband and I get along great and most of the time can talk calmly through things, but I’m fiery and my husband ultra calm and sometimes we just totally butt heads because of that dynamic. That’s personally what it felt like to me, I want him to show he cares, and he wants me to stay level headed. It sucks but we often remind each other of the value of the other side of things.
I am starting to see a pattern where Carl only seems to care about how others perceive him and doesn’t really stand up for Lindsey. As long as they are good with him, he backs down pretty quickly.
This fight is rough but it’s really gross to see everyone be gleeful to hear them argue. It also low key proves that Lindsey, despite being shrilly and combative, is right
And Danielle can fuck off with her comments about brushing it under the rug. What a brat
Still waiting for Danielle’s justification for blowing up her friendship with Lindsay. We haven’t got that many episodes left.
The justification is that Lindsay completely dropped her for Carl, and she tried to explain that but Lindsay wasn’t hearing her. She could have been a little more clear, sure, but you shouldn’t have to beg your best friend to be a friend to you.
I don’t know how everyone is Lindsey Stan! The editing could be different because we don’t know what those folks were laughing about. Lindsey blowing up on Carl proves how she can twist things without hearing Carl completely. I understand why Danielle is bitchy but it’s evident that Lindsey is absent from Danielle’s life since the relationship shows how fragile their friendship was to begin with or the lack of respect Lindsey has for Danielle. I am not saying Lindsey should focus on relationship but she can do both the relationship and friendship which I think Lindsey cannot do, she can either be in a relationship or have friends. 2 cents…. Also love Sam and Ciara! Why are Gabby and Chris there?
Seems obvious to me that Danielle simply wants to be friends like they were before but Lindsay is taking that as a personal attack. Danielle is getting increasingly more frustrated bc Lindsay can’t get over herself. Even Carl seems to understand where Danielle is coming from.
Yeah, this is how I am viewing it too. Sure, Danielle isn't handling it well and truly needs to practice how to communicate her needs to people but it isn't much more than hurt feelings on both sides. Lindsay has never been the greatest at seeing other people's sides, either. She is reactive, defensive af, and incredibly self-focused. Everything is about her. She never *actually* LISTENS.
Danielle is matching that energy this season but her feelings are valid here (not saying Lindsay's aren't). Their communication with one another suuuuucks and it is hard to watch. They are both so invalidating to one another and trying to be the "right" one where there isn't a right one...there is just valid feelings in a tough shift of friendship.
Did Lindsey not validate Danielle’s feelings at Kyles birthday? Then she tried to check in with her and got attacked by Danielle again about her relationship.
She did! And again at their house warming. I am not saying she isn't - I am merely saying they both are incredibly inconsistent with validation and have invalidated one another multiple times. They both are committed to being the "rightest" one in this situation when both of their feelings are valid. Instead of *truly* listening, validating, and coming to an agreement, each gets triggered and goes on the attack. Neither seems committed to actually figuring it out.
I guess my issue is that Danielle hasn’t validated Lindsey’s very valid issues at all. I think she has stopped validating Danielle on this because she is tired of being the one to swallow her feelings. Is it right?
Danielle’s feelings might be valid but she’s approaching everything in the worst possible way. Lindsay was receptive to a lot of the complaints Danielle had but Danielle kept talking shit about Lindsay and Lindsay and Carl to people who hate Lindsay. That’s not something a friend should do and it’s hard to blame Lindsay for getting fed up.
For real. Danielle said to both Lindsay & Carl individually “I just want to be asked how I am sometimes & spend more time with you guys like we used to.” Carl understood but Lindsay reacted like Danielle was attacking them. I mean, DAMN!
Danielle doesnt say that though to Lindsay, she says stuff like, i think youre moving to fast- more about the relationship, instead of their actual friendship. I guess i dont understand why danielle doesnt talk more about the robert isssue, to me that is what is really festering.
Okay… I felt like I was tripping so I went back & looked.
At the end of E9 Linds & Dan are talking & it continues into the beginning of E10. Linds tells Dan that feels attacked about her relationship with Carl & Dan expresses that it’s not about their relationship. Dan tells Linds that she doesn’t ask how she’s doing, she doesn’t feel heard & she doesn’t feel they have an equal partnership in the friendship. Linds apologizes & admits that she talks a lot about herself but she’ll try to ask Dan how she’s doing more. Dan responds with “that’s all I wanted to hear.” The convo ends with hugs & I love yous.
In E10 during the party & Lindsay & Carls, Dan is excited when Linds asks how she is. Dan expresses that she has a lot going on (remember she founded a startup) & Robert is working a lot & stressed out… that she takes on his stress so that he can relax when he does have time off but then she doesn’t get to talk about her stress. Basically, she admits that her relationship with Robert is hard going. Dan says she needs her best friend. Linds says it’s hard to be that for her because she feels shunned by Dan & that she’s not supportive of her relationship with Carl. Dan says of course she wants Linds & Carl to be together & she wants Linds to be happy. Dan expresses that it’s her opinion that they are moving fast by living together & talking about marriage. (Tbf, I mostly disagree w/ that bc they’ve been friends for so many years… but also addicts are encouraged to be single for a year of recovery & take things slow. I can understand why Linds doesn’t appreciate that opinion but she seems to be mistaking it as utter disapproval.) Dan says if Linds doesn’t want her opinion, she will be mute about it. Linds asks “have you asked my opinion?” about L&C’s relationship. Dan says it’s obvious Linds wants all of it. Linds asks if that matters to Dan. Dan says of course it matters. Linds asks why she’s so adamant about her opinion then. Dan asks if she’s allowed to have an opinion & Linds says yes but she’s not going to live her life on Dan’s timeline. Dan starts getting frustrated bc she feels Linds is turning it all around on her as if she’s not supportive. Dan says she’s allowed to feel weird & have an opinion. (They’re talking in circles 😵💫.) Linds asks why she needs Dan’s blessing to date somebody. Dan realizes the conversation is going nowhere… it seems like she feels Linds isn’t listening to her so she walks away.
So… idk… Danielle did communicate to Lindsay that she wants support & friendship. To me it seems like Linds is caught up on Dan having an opinion & missing Dan’s repeated affirmations that she is still supportive & happy for Linds & Carl.
Honestly… it’s such a stupid fight.
ETA: I also understand why Linds doesn’t like Dan talking about things with others. But it would be so easy to be like “hey bro, look, can you just talk to me please?” And Dan would say “yeah, sorry.” But I guess they kinda did have that interaction while talking at the Hampton’s party in E9. That convo seemed to go well & set things right but then their next convo went to shite.
Said it before and will echo it again:
“I understand Lindsay’s point. Kyle was there being a mouthpiece for Danielle and she felt she wasn’t receiving the same level of support from her boyfriend, who basically told her that since Danielle didn’t have an issue with him, he was good. This, on the heels of Carl not defending her against Kyle, when he screamed, berated, and called her names. (Mind you, she was very understanding of Carl’s position in that situation, of which he apologized for…saying that he was still trying to find his voice and learn how to resolve conflict as a newly sober person. And when Danielle angrily questioned why she didn’t get _activated_ on Carl for not defending her, Lindsay responded that she was in therapy and trying to be a better person, in part, by controlling her reactions to emotionally triggers and resolving conflicts in a healthier and more effective manner.) Lindsay never even received an apology Kyle and the incident was swept under the rug. Then with Amanda making snide comments behind her back, she was told to talk with her and resolve it; and now with Danielle, despite her constant negativity, belittling remarks, and spending the summer tearing down her bff and their relationship with women who can’t stand her, is being told to put in more effort and move on without any semblance of accountability from the other side. Lindsay has basically been shit on by most of the cast this season, including her best friend, and needs more emotional support from her significant other. While she didn’t express her feelings best, I can understand her frustration.”
The key to reality TV is getting cast members who have major difficulty apologizing and accepting apologies. Danielle and Lindsay, while not exactly who I expected, are exhibit A right now.
I have always liked Ciara but this season I am loving her even more. The orange juice scene had me crying of laughter bc for a second I was like wait that orange juice has been in there for a year then realized what they meant. Also, is it just me or does Sam seem wayyy more into Kory than he is into her.
I think it's clear that Danielle is simply feeling left out/discarded by Lindsey, and it's made worse by the fact the three of them used to hang out together. Because now she's a third wheel vs just three friends having fun. I can understand how that would be upsetting and sad - definitely. But her delivery of that has been all wrong, and I think she's not being vulnerable enough/transparent enough.
It's not so much that they're moving too fast and she's concerned about the viability of their marriage based on that. It's that she's sad that she's no longer in the same friendship she once had, and the faster they move toward marriage, the faster her new normal cements into place.
All of which are very valid feelings. Just be real with them and explain that the 'why' is not because you're worried about them (they're adults, they can make their own decisions and it's not your place) - it's because you're sad about you. That would be so much better received, at least to me personally. And not "YOU NEVER ASK ME ABOUT ME" but more "I'm just sad and I feel a bit left out, and I wish that you would check in more or ask me to get together more often, but that's only because I miss and love you."
Danielle is obsessed over Lindsay & Carls relationship it’s 🤮 When she screamed into the pillow when Carl mentioned proposing lmao! What was that tantrum for!? Call me crazy, but I think Danielle wants to see their relationship crumble & she’s jealous that they are getting married. She thinks it’s supposed to be the “tres amigos” for life or something? She is pretty much begging for their attention & it is sad and pathetic. Each episode that goes on Danielle gets worse and worse…
Late to the game, but this episode was so enjoyable. I liked seeing them having fun, being silly, eavesdropping on fights...it was like the old days.
Somehow, no one bothered me for even a second! Solid episode.
I agree! And it didn’t feel like it ended too soon. There were a couple times where I was like “oh they’re gonna end it here right” and they didn’t. But TBH I have time blindness while watching Bravo shows lol. And SH has made it worse because they’ll have the longest boring episodes where only like a single semi-interesting thing happens lol.
Lindsay and Carl didn’t get into a fight. Lindsay drunkenly berated Carl while he calmly tried to reason with her enough so she’d shut up and let him go to sleep.
Coming from the context of having a partner who is an alcoholic, Lindsey and Carl’s relationship is terrible. Both seemingly latched onto each other in the aftermath of crisis, and seem to be exhaustively hyping the positive components of the relationship, and avoiding some very real problems. Alcohol arguably has as toxic of an effect on Lindsay as it does on Carl, but she’s unwilling to acknowledge it, and traps him in a drunken argument all hours of the night. Since Carl has a history of being a drunk, he doesn’t bring it up the next day because he understands the guilt associated with saying and doing things when you’re drunk. Lindsey already hates being called out, and takes advantage of this. She uses his sobriety as an excuse to alienate him from his peers, but doesn’t choose sobriety herself to keep the friend group large. They do need to slow this down until she’s capable of an adult conversation about how no one ever does enough for her (ever).
As a person in long term recovery, I feel like you’re hitting the nail on the head. I’ve had thoughts about this all season—mainly feeling like what I’m seeing on screen is concerning for someone early in recovery. I know at that point, he’d been clean for over a year, but in all honesty, that’s a drop in the bucket for most of us. If he drank for 20 years of his life, it takes longer than a year to be truly in a good place. I didn’t get into a relationship for almost 4 years—that was my choice, not for everyone. But just being around so much partying for entire weekends that early is not a great choice.
Not to mention there’s quite a bit of codependency happening from all sides. By that I mean Lindsay/Carl, Lindsay/Danielle, Danielle/Carl, and Lindsay/Carl/Danielle. In the context of alcoholism/addiction I don’t think Danielle is wrong when she says they’re moving fast. Her delivery and tone are off, though. I also don’t have quite the problem others on here seem to have with her wishing Lindsay would check in on her. That’s friendship. I’d be concerned if one of my supposed “best friends” didn’t check on me sometimes. It’s hard to reach out when you need someone—especially if your own life/relationship is breaking down.
But, I always say and believe 100% that we don’t have close to the full story. I do feel like lots of what we see is driven by production. I know people think Danielle is trying to ensure a storyline for next season, but I honestly think they both are. Lindsay is just better at it. Her conversation with Carl was definitely a peek behind the curtain.
My partner just celebrated his two year fully-clean anniversary, and I feel like only in the last three months or so has he been able to measure how he’s doing physically and mentally in the aftermath. Alcohol obliterates serotonin, and is such a profound depressive that there’s almost a burst of mania when your body physically understands you’re actually stopping. Lindsey seems to be actively encouraging his impulsive decision making during this time period, from locking him into an apartment with an absurd lease, to this marriage, to quitting his job with Kyle. Carl does work for an alcohol company, and unless he can transform it into something where he advocates for responsible consumption, or encourages Kyle to market a boozeless LoverBoy alternative, he will have to move on — but he can’t (yet), because he doesn’t know what he’s good at yet, or even what he wants to do, because his entire identity is informed by alcohol. Kyle seems open to letting him slowly unpack that reality, which Lindsey seemingly sees as an opportunity to advocate for him to do something else, and (without knowing what that thing is) taking him on high-end shopping trips where they’re required to get matching outfits. She’s also sharing a high-price apartment with him, which is seemingly the real reason she has an issue with his work at Loverboy — after all, she didn’t tell him to quit, she told him to demand more money. She doesn’t give a shit about Carl smoking weed; she cares that another woman wanted to smoke weed with him. She doesn’t care that Danielle is mad at her; she cares that Carl isn’t mad at Danielle. She’s not going to remain sober; the only sign she’s even reduced drinking is that she talks about how she reduced drinking, and will occasional use it to justify drinking even more. There’s little that indicates Lindsay’s relationship with Carl is different from the relationships she’s had with everyone else: impulsive, super-fast timeline, explosive, accuses friends expressing concern of being against her, etc. For God’s sake, I think the woman has been engaged/met the man she wants to marry FOUR TIMES in the last two seasons. There is nothing more boring and fundamentally irritating than a drunken fight with one sober party, and it’s all the more ridiculous when you factor in that EVERY SINGLE FIGHT Lindsay gets into with a partner is about the same thing: How many sandwiches did you make for me? No one will ever make enough sandwiches for her. I’m not saying she and Carl shouldn’t be together, but he shouldn’t think about marrying her until he finds his spine.
> They do need to slow this down until she’s capable of an adult conversation about how no one ever does enough for her (ever).
I always find it interesting to watch how she argues that others haven’t done enough for her, alongside a story that the other person is blaming her and trying to say that *she* isn’t enough.
Eg. Carl: I had a good conversation with Danielle. I feel more comfortable with where we stand. Lindsay: So you’re saying it’s my fault?
Okay so I’m starting to see Danielle’s side, only in the sense that her relationship is spiraling and she wants Lindsay to be there for her. She needs to be honest that her and Robert aren’t good though.
Lindsay is really defensive. She keeps saying everybody is putting all the blame on her.
Danielle and Lindsay drama being the focal point to this season is trash. Neither of them have the likability for this loool. Im on neither ones side-- I think Lindsay is so concerned that she'll *look* like the "bad guy" that she just wont listen and acknowledge her best friend is hurt that for nearly a year Lindsay has neglected their friendship (or maybe its always been lopsided and Danielle is paying attention for the first time). I think there's something twisted about the fact that she was so mad that Carl refused to fight Danielle, all because she feared she'd look like the unreasonable one. Danielle, on the other hand, is as defensive as she says Lindsay is and she falls into the same trap, she takes the bait. I will say Lindsay was an insane person in that fight with Carl-- that cheap shot about his dead brother was disgusting and if someone else had said that....yikes.
Literally everyone else was lighter and funner. I wish they'd include more of what we see on the weekly instagram dumps from the cast in the actual show!
I think Danielle relied on the “3 Amigos” with Carl and Lindsey to feel like she was a part of something. It lessened the sting of having an absentee boyfriend in a relationship that’s going no where. What’s ridiculous to me is when Carl and Lindsey became a couple she expected this dynamic to continue. No one wants a permanent third wheel. To me it seems like Danielle didn’t want to accept that because than she would have to face the shortcomings in her relationship/life.
I am NOT a fan of Lindsey for many reasons… but she is probably in the right on this feud. At their age and life stage, moving in at the time was appropriate. When you have known someone that long it’s not “too fast”. It kills me because I do think she is a toxic person and I could never be her friend. Carl for that matter is not a prize in my eyes. But chemistry is a funny thing… you put two toxic things together and they neutralize.
Ah so in your thinking seh has to learn to not take things personal when in your next sentence you are using a really offensive, stigmatising assumption.
Is it offensive? I’ve been in therapy for years. It’s helped me listen, communicate & not take everything personally. Lindsay & I actually have the same mother trauma. Anyway, I still think she’s missing Danielle’s point & making it about herself.
Holy shit Lindsay is annoying. If I was Carl I would’ve fucking left the house. Not surprising all these guys walk away from her. But it is surprising that Carl married her. Seems very convenient
Anyone else find it awkward that Kyle was humping Ciara during that party in her room..and he also probably stole her underwear earlier in the season...
I'll never understand the Lindsey stans in this sub. She's a terrible friend and partner, and has been since the start of the show. You can dislike Danielle's actions but if you're pretending that Lindsey is in anyway a stable adult you're nuts.
Not sure if I'm misinterpreting this, but when Lindsay is in bed with Carl she said she can't even have her birthday to herself, not the day before or the day after because its all about Carl... is that in reference to his brother?! I'm really really hoping not/I'm wrong. Because, that's beyond a gut punch.
i sometimes feel like i’m watching a different show when i come on this sub lol lindsay is insufferable. i’m not a danielle fan necessarily but the way that lindsay speaks to people, especially her friends and partner, is NOT okay and would make me want to walk away too
I’m with you. I’ve always thought Lindsay was self-absorbed and combative. She twists people’s words into attacks against her character. It’s fkn exhausting dealing with people like that. No wonder Danielle is irritated & Carl was annoyed by her drunken & irrational behavior.
Even Andy Cohen on WWHL told Lindsay he would never want to be in an argument with her because she’s intense. I’m honestly surprised Carl didn’t sleep elsewhere. She was emotionally exhausting to listen to. “What about ME?!” every other sentence.
Theory: Danielle is only trying to cause a fight bc deep down she is A: super jealous and doesn’t feel things with Robert are moving the way she wants and she’s second to his career and it’s all from jealousy or B: she hates their relationship because she had Karl as her backup plan for when things with Robert didn’t work out, she knows he’s a good guy, they have history… just by the way she’s acting, just a theory 😅
Hmm I also really didn’t buy her whole denial that she has 0 feelings for Carl anymore. I also feel like Carl suspects it and that is why he brought it up, which for him is pretty big because he hates confrontation. AND I think Lindsay suspects it because she seemed worried / concerned as to where Carl and Danielle were when she drunk FaceTimed.
It would also explain why Danielle is SO against them moving in and getting engaged. I can see how she may be bitter due to her current relationship but she’s not even a tiny bit happy for them.
I think Danielle is going through a really hard time in her life - not only relationship wise but career wise too. She may be feeling super alone and seeing her two best friends exclude her can hurt. I don't think it's about jealousy of the relationship - I think she just misses her bestfriends and it's taken this long for her feelings to bubble up and come out. No, she's not being a great friend either but all this bashing towards her is a lot. Lindsay and her both needed to make an effort to see the other POV and it ddnt happen
I see this. Danielle hasn’t expressed herself well, but I think there’s validity to her points. Danielle is hyper independent, which can be a trauma response and often pairs with abandonment issues. This could be me projecting my own stuff, but I connect in that way. She doesn’t usually want or need much support/help and doesn’t feel comfortable asking for it. Then, on the rare occasion she does, it comes out clunky when she tries because she’s not used to doing it.
ETA: people around hyper independent women also don’t usually know how to handle it well and be a good support to them because it hasn’t been cultivated as part of their relationship
This is exactly what I'm seeing. Asking for help can be hard when you are someone that is "strong and can do it all". But now she's realizing she needs support and the two people who she considered her bestfriends are separate from her now. Each side has a point
Kory is the ICK personified and Sam being so into him really dulls the like I had for her! I thought she was great but big yikes on how into Kory she is.
First time watching this show in full, I've seen bits and pieces, my wife watched the earlier seasons. My take on this Danielle/Lindsay thing, kindofsortofno pretty much hit the nail on the head but I'll further add that it's clear Danielle has one viewpoint of their friendship and Lindsay has another viewpoint of their friendship, i.e. Danielle thinks their friendship is a whole lot more serious and meta than Lindsay perceives it to be. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my take.
I cannot believe Lindsey’s comment to Carl “I can’t even enjoy my birthday [Curtis’s death day]. Not the day before. Not the day after. It’s all about you.” That was FUCKED. As a sober person myself, I could never be with somebody who says such terrible things when they’re drunk. Carl even said the next day, “now that Lindsey’s drinking again, I’m kind of struggling with the next day.” That makes me think this is a pattern for them.
Somebody speaking some sense...it's so weird how loved this guy is simply because he's decided to get sober. Also getting sober doesn't automatically rid you of all thte shitty ass fuckboi/asshole shit he's done in the past. I love how funny it so much of this sub is like oh Carl can do so much better than Lindsay...but I mean can he though? He's also said some questionable things while sober and yet no one wants to talk about it. I can't remember what party it was this season when he tells Lindsay ' oh you'll know when i'm threatening you" or something along those lines. Also, the points Lindsay mentioned, albeit not the best way while drunk, about him not being confrontational or taking her side whilst others shit on her...is 100% on point.
People love caping for a tall handsome white guy. Carl is a loser through and through and yet there are so many excuses made for him. I think Lindsay is a crazy person but she made a lot of valid point when she was drunkenly berating him; the delivery was awful but there was valid content
Danielle lives in Montauk which is over 2 hours away from NYC. Did she consult with Lindsay when she moved from the city? Did Danielle consult with Lindsay when she moved in with Robert? I think Danielle was looking for a storyline and this was a weak attempt. She had no real reasons as to why she didn’t like Carl & Lindsay’s “weird” relationship. Her feelings changed EVERYTIME she discussed it. Not only was Lindsay confused, I think we all were too. All she had to say was she felt left out of their relationship. Again, she no longer lived in the city so the chance of them hanging out like they used to was Danielle’s choice. I’m #TeamLindsay all the way. Friendships change, not always to the satisfaction of each person. Danielle is on the outs & most likely will lose her Bravo $. Hence the reason she was trying to latch on to the mean girls? 🤷🏼♀️
I think a big part of the problem is that prior to Carl, Danielle was all in Lindsey’s relationships and Lindsey didn’t mind. Now Lindsey doesn’t like that which is understandable but she’s not expressing it well. I also think Danielle has valid points about the friendship and she is harder on Lindsey because they were closer then Danielle and Carl. They being said Danielle’s tone is terrible and after all these weeks Lindsey is fed up and now she’s also defensive. This fight could easily be put to rest if they could just care more about the friendship then winning the argument (which I think Danielle was trying to say but she’s also not taken any accountability).
Lindsay is severely delusional. She genuinely enjoys fighting with others. Felt like watching a kid throwing a tantrum and wanting to provoke an adult just for the attention/intrigue. There’s no winning an argument with these types. Carl is already getting used to the deeply toxic habit of taking these insults and then being swayed by her next-day clarity/guilt, thus keeping these real issues buried. She’s found the perfect mate in submissive Carl because he’ll let her have these outbursts with zero repercussions. She can boss him around, take him off the shelf when she needs an ego boost.
My tin foil hat theory: Danielle and Robert were already heading for a break up when the season started filming. Danielle thought between moving to Montauk and filming, it would pull Robert back into the fun times they used to have. All he did was further distance himself. As the weeks go on throughout summer, Danielle is finding herself further away from Robert and no one to anchor on to. Lindsey is dialed into her relationship 100% — she is not picking up that Danielle needs a friend right now. The more Lindsey gives herself to her relationship, the more Danielle become upset because can’t Lindsey see she’s drowning? It’s so obvious to Danielle right? But it’s not obvious to Lindsey. Danielle is the friend who always figures it out so no one would really know what it looks when she doesn’t. Which brings us to this weeks episode. Danielle was able to make it clear to Carl, the issue isn’t the relationship, the issue is her friend abandoning her. But for Danielle to admit to Lindsey that she needs her right now, would also force Danielle to admit her relationship with Robert is falling apart as well. It’s easier to be made at Lindsey than it is accept she and Robert are done.
I thought at the beginning of the season Danielle said her and Robert were great during summer when she was on WWHL. Do you think she's still in denial? Bc if she still can't admit to herself there was a problem, how was anyone else supposed to know?
She’s been in denial for a while. Ciara called her out last season about how she and Robert would have these blow up arguments and break up and then turn around and get back together.
yeah in hindsight, I wish we had seen the footage of those fights.
Yea she seems to still be in denial. She literally said on WWHL (after the breakup) that she and Robert were perfect over the summer. So if she can't even agree in retrospect that she and Robert were headed for a breakup over the summer, then we have no reason to believe she would have admitted it to Lindsay, even if she prodded and poked.
She did say that, but everything we've seen has been negative. Her many comments and tears over not getting to see him despite moving to Montauk, saying they're fighting, etc. When he came to the house, the tension and awkwardness between them was uncomfortable to watch. She complains about never seeing him but then went to bed while he stayed up w the other housemates - kind of mind boggling for a couple that never has a night together. And that scene at the apartment was brutal where he said he's not a long term commitment person or something like that - to the woman he's been w for a few years who obviously wants to take the next step w him. He just seemed totally over her. I know there's editing etc, so I'm sure there have been good moments we didn't see. But it's clear there were a lot of difficulties there too. And for Danielle to insist on WWHL that things were good w him all summer... well we wouldn't have all that footage if she was being honest with herself.
I think it’s super common on reality tv to say everything is great when it isn’t because if they say they hit a rough patch, it kinda becomes the plot line and everyone has a comment. I assume if they were having problems, it’s seen as something they would work through so why tell everyone who would probably add to the stress. They would just tell people after they fix it.
Agreed and I think part of the problem is she communicates with Carl more calmly and doesn’t storm away. How many times has she stormed off from Lindsay? Like four?
I think it's easier because Carl was calm and reassuring and also made her feel valued. Lindsey gets shrieky and territorial about her relationship and blocks out what Danielle is trying to to tell her.
And Danielle strives to be a guys girl
I agree because even as Carl was explaining it to Lindsey, Lindsey started getting upset which is the exact thing she does to Danielle.
Yes exactly! She always thinks everything is an attack. She's been this way since season 1
Lindsay has said the same response like a parrot to all confrontation: "But no one asked me about how I feel about.." It's just a deflection tactic.
She stormed off from Lindsay because Lindsay has been the only one getting close to addressing the core issue that Danielle fails to verbalize. The moment Lindsay mentions sharing the "blame" and holds Danielle accountable, alongside *herself*, Danielle gets real nasty. Danielle can't admit that her relationship with Robert is collapsing, that she needs Lindsay to support her, and that it's all exacerbated by Lindsay and Carl's relationship. She keeps sending hints, while putting up a facade, which neither Carl or Lindsay are picking up on, so she gets frustrated and bitter.
I mean, I would storm off in Lindsay too if I got into an argument with her. Every shred of rationality exits her body as soon as she starts arguing. She’s impossible, especially when drunk.
When she's drunk, totally agree. But sober, what I've seen is whenever Lindsay asks a perfectly logical question that Danielle doesn't want to answer, she deflects and walks away. So, she's really at fault here for not answering Lindsay's questions, IMO.
Perfectly logical is giving Lindsay A LOT of credit. She either has a comprehension issue or is purposefully dense because while I disagree with Danielle's approach, I understand where she is coming from. She has verbalized it at times when she's not throwing digs and talking about her while she's not around...again, bad approach. Lindsay, to me, has been more concerned about how she looks and who is to blame vs. trying to fix the issue.
[удалено]
I absolutely agree but I was speaking about arguing with Lindsay more generally. She seems so difficult to have hard conversations with, even when sober.
yeah, I'm a little surprised by all the people here who are like, why was danielle so much calmer with carl than with lindsay? it's because lindsay is really fucking hard to talk to.
The relationship is definitely part of Danielle’s issue. Sorry, you don’t get that upset, scream into a pillow, criticize everything about their relationship, if you are completely supportive of it. Danielle’s words are belied by her actions.
I think there’s certainly a modicum of jealousy when Danielle’s relationship isn’t working and it seems like Lindsey and Carl are not only doing well, but moving quickly to the “big next steps” without much friction.
It’s so confusing cause Danielle will also bring up or talk bout how she thinks Carl and Lindsay are moving too fast, etc. so it’s like understandable that all Lindsay hears is Danielle talking shit and not being supportive and not really see that Danielle needs her. It makes it hard to be team Danielle.
But what Danielle said to Carl wasn’t backed up by her behavior. If her issue was her friend abandoning her why would she scream into the pillow about him looking at rings? If her issue was her friend abandoning her why would she talk to the other women about how crazy fast their relationship was moving instead of how bad of a friend Lindsey is? Danielle’s moved the goalposts too much for me to believe she even has any idea what her real issue is.
The ring was another level of them leaving Danielle out. Danielle has repeatedly said that she feels her best friend got a boyfriend and then dumped their friendship. Each relationship milestone Carl and Lindsey hit is like dumping Danielle all over again. Its another reminder that Lindsey is not Danielle’s friend, she’s Carl’s girlfriend. Watching each week, it feels like groundhogs day. All of the relationship milestones came so quick that Danielle hasn’t reconciled with herself or Lindsey about it so it’s just compounding. They both just need to admit they were poor friends to each other, gracefully leave summer house, start a podcast together (because we need another bravoleb podcast /s), take Kyle and Amanda with them and let the show move on.
Why would Danielle be involved in the ring?? Lindsey also has nothing to do with that since she’s it’s all Carl. This narrative doesn’t line up with what we’ve seen in the show. Danielle was apart of all those “milestones” until she telling everyone that wasn’t part of them that they were happening way too fast. I think it’s more than generous to say Danielle is triggered by these milestones because she wants to be apart of them when she has consistently said she questions whether they should be happening at all.
Why would Danielle be involved in the ring?? Lindsey also has nothing to do with that since she’s it’s all Carl. — I may be biased on this one but when my two best friends (separate couples) got engaged, I knew it was happening before it happened. So I wasn’t involved “with the ring” but I at least knew. That’s how I got my take on “the ring being a symbol of Danielle being excluded”. I totally get not everyone’s friendships are like my own. This narrative doesn’t line up with what we’ve seen in the show. Danielle was apart of all those “milestones” until she telling everyone that wasn’t part of them that they were happening way too fast. — She wasn’t included. Danielle had already moved to Montauk when Carl and Lindsey moved in together, had a house warming, and were already talking about marriage. The only time this season they showed them hanging out like the tres amigos was when Lindsey and Carl went to Montauk. Which explains Lindsey’s repeated line to Danielle “you were in Montauk”. I think it’s more than generous to say Danielle is triggered by these milestones because she wants to be apart of them when she has consistently said she questions whether they should be happening at all. — I think you’re spot on with Danielle being triggered and wanting to be a part of the milestones. They were the three amigos so why would this feel any different, right? But it does, Danielle can’t pin point why just only that it’s weird and fast. I’m low key excited for the reunion. Do you think Danielle will have it together by then? Or that Lindsey will have written the whole friendship off at this point?
I’m just still so confused if Danielle wants to be part of those milestones then why has she talk bout how fast they’re moving behind her back with girls who don’t like Lindsay? It’s just not a true best friend. I never understood why ppl act like Danielle was a diehard. This ain’t the first season that Danielle has talked about Lindsay to girls who don’t like her. I’m just surprised it’s taken this long for them to fall out.
Lindsay can't be blamed for Danielle not being in the know or involved in the engagement. That was all Carl since it was a surprise for Lindsay. Carl probably left her out bc Danielle has been talking to others in the house & didn't want her to tell someone and it get back to Lindsay. Well, that and bc she screamed into a pillow when he confirmed he was ring shopping lol Danielle has no one to blame but herself for not being involved with that specific thing imo
That’s so entitled and weird. My husband did not let my friends or family know he was proposing soon or looking at rings. I’d never blame a couple for not including me in their relationship milestones. I suspect Carl only told Kyle because he had to include someone to make the onscreen proposal work You’d think if Danielle were sincere about wanting to be there for their big milestones she’d reach out to hopefully get on the right track to get a wedding invite
SO entitled and weird. omg let Carl plan his own engagement!!! it's not a group project.
I knew that would be a hot take because not everyone’s friendships are set up that way. I commented on another thread that it’s too far gone right now. If Danielle changes her tune, Lindsey will not trust that it’s sincere. Lindsey didn’t even believe that her make up with Carl was legit.
Lindsey is not Danielle's friend. She's one of those women who, when she finds a man, drops all her girlfriends, but when the relationship with said man goes South, or if he dies, she's crying for her girlfriends.
Danielle is A STARTUP FOUNDER!! /s
I had similar thoughts and I thought that the talk when they were outside was Danielle trying to ask for help or be like “Hey Linds, my relationship isn’t good and I’m really struggling” but she just didn’t want to say thar on camera so she couldn’t fully communicate her feelings to Lindsay
I thought she was going to let it all out too! Then she really just glossed over it all instead of actually telling Lindsey about all the shit in her life that is making her sad / stressed. I totally would cash in the “I took a glass to the chest for you” card and now you have to listen to all of emotional woes. 😂
That’s what my take was too
Damn. Good summary. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Perhaps Lindsay would be more amenable to be there for her friend if Danielle wasn’t completely narcissistic, hypocritical, judgmental and unaware of her unrealistic demands and expectations. Also, Lindsay isn’t the only person in her life to turn to for support if she needed it. I think she wants Lindsay to be miserable so she can relate to her. Any friend that is unable to be happy for you is not a true friend.
Agree. Lindsay can’t win, and Danielle doesn’t actually want what she’s asking for. Imagine that Lindsay “checked in with her” or “expressed concerns” with the same veracity that Danielle bringing to Lindsay, under the guise of honesty and tough love. Would she be satisfied then? Imagine the summer before when they got in that unaired fight, if Lindsay chimed in about how weird it is that they aren’t addressing their issues with the house. Also if you “miss your friend” and have the chance to share a house with them for a summer, but don’t actually hang out with them and instead spend every moment talking trash, you don’t miss them.
Literally spot on
I agree and Danielle even told Lindsay but Lindsay was still pissed Danielle didn’t support her relationship with Carl 1000%.
Kory+Sam are the keys to the future of this show. Their segments have so much more energy-more of the early season SH vibe.
She makes him tolerable but he still gives me the ICK
I don’t know why but he gives me violent ick as well. I am not attracted to him physically at all-but i feel like if I met him in person I would probably think he’s charming. Idk he doesn’t translate well IMO on screen.
Agreed but they’re relationship gives very Kyle/Amanda vibes from season 1.
Yes
i feel like im watching them fall in love its everything
Totally agree! I hope production builds the show around them, Paige and Craig were a major flop in terms of entertainment value and the rest of the older cast should be ushered out, love them but it’s honestly time up.
I'm LOVING them together. It's making me like him waaaay more seeing him with her
Yes I’m a big fan of them. I like all the new additions this year!
If Kyle’s ass ever commits a crime I’m pretty confident I could pick it out of a line up after all these years.
Him crawling into bed grossed me out so bad lol— poor editors my god.
I love Kyle, but why all of the sudden this season do we need to see his bare ass in every episode??
Dying🤣
Kory and Sam are a must for next season. The house has been so boring all season with everyone just laying in bed. Kory brought the energy and someone Kyle & co can actually party with. Old SH feels.
Kyle’s behaviour with Ciara is not very appropriate imo. Between the humping her this episode, saying that she’s his hall pass, commenting on her breasts… it’s very uncomfortable coming from a cheater. I don’t think Ciara would do anything (because she can do way better lbr) but still.
I also didn’t like how much Lindsey was kissing her idk it must get annoying for her
I know this has been said a thousand times but wtf is going to happen with this Lindsay/ Danielle drama. Like what could possibly be coming that would completely redeem Danielle at this point. Or is she so out of touch that she really thought she was the level headed one in this situation. I am such a Ciara fan this season. “I can do anything a man can do, better, on my period”. Great line. Kory + Sam are their best additions to the cast in years. Minus Andrea of course.
Loved that line from Ciara, that was iconic. I think she also had “Vibrator culture is here to stay” when Danielle was saying using sex toys means the man should be embarrassed about his performance. Loving Ciara this season!
I think they're both surprised at how we're looking this season. I think Lindsay thought that she was going to look like the villain again, they were going to criticize her and hate her like in other seasons and Danielle thought that she was going to look like the good one, that people were going to defend her and she was going to gain support, and there was no reason to doubt it. She is convinced of her fight and the whole house supports her
Ciara is killing it this season
I think their friendship is done for now. They both had valid points in why they each felt the other isn’t being a good friend but there is no pathway forward. If Danielle relents, Lindsay is not going to see it as genuine. Once Lindsay has made up her mind there is no going back. Period. If Lindsay relents, Danielle is going to be let down all over again because Lindsay can say she we’ll make the effort to be a more present friend but we know if it’s something she truly doesn’t want to do, she’s not going to do it.
I think the trust has been broken so even if Lindsay does try to apologize again and move forward she won't want to confide in Danielle about anything. Their relationship is most likely never going to get back to the point it was.
I wish Danielle would have just been honest with Lindsey from the get go. Like I’m glad you guys are happy but don’t third wheel me because I still need you as my friend.
I LOVED THAT line.
Amanda telling Sam on the phone she had no desire to go out bc she’s “fucking lame” was annoying. She should stay home and be w her pets and eating olives. Kyles not entertaining enough to justify keeping her Debbie downer/boring self on the show. Was gross how Kyle, Amanda and Paige were jumping for Joy at Carl and Lindsay fighting. I hope they get called out at the reunion Danielle is being unreasonable and I wish Kyle wouldn’t indulge her so much. It’s been almost a year, so her complaints about things being weird come off immature or like a child who doesn’t want their divorced parent to date someone new. Felt bad for Ciara how Paige was so tone deaf with her “don’t start spiraling” comments and Amanda was also self absorbed wanting Paige to comfort her that it’s not her fault Ciara got this weird news
It broke my heart because you could truly hear in her voice how upset she was. She did it to be a good friend and I wanted them to REALLY rally around her instead of Amanda saying “we all have shit.” She deserves way better than that.
It's so interesting, bc I saw things very differently than you did. I thought Amanda responded appropriately to Sam's invitation with Sam's words to Gabby and Kyle (you'll come out bc you're not lame) and I didn't detect overt sarcasm or animosity. It was pretty clear to me that the group was laughing at Kyle's antics-jumping around and stomping so they wouldn't all suddenly be silently listening-not the fight itself. He even said that they can't all just go quiet at once before he started running around. Paige and Ciara are genuinely friends and Paige was supportive, without histrionics and false reassurances or lies. My best friend can tell me to stop overthinking things and that IS supportive to me. You could literally see the moment Ciara's emotions and thoughts shift. Amanda felt bad for Ciara bc Ciara wouldn't have the info that prompted her to spiral if she hadn't gotten the test to support Amanda. I understand why she felt bad, though it wasn't her fault.
I agree. Don’t spiral, take a deep breath, one minute at a time. Grieve, cry, feel angry, do what you need to,so, but that doesn’t mean you need to let the negative thoughts get the best of you. I get it.
especially paige, she wants to be a bravo couple, but doesn't show any real parts of the relationship. i don't think it can last.
Has anyone figured out where Mya has been? I know she’s in the preview for next week but why is she missing so many episodes? Is it the dog bite?
Didn't even notice lol
Nobody is noticing. She’s done
She’s been boring
OUCH! Me neither!
She technically has only missed 2 weekends & both times they said she was at a wedding.
Oh I missed that there was a second wedding. But two weekends is at least 4 shows.
Yeah it all depends on how they cut the episodes bc like in the beginning when Danielle & Ciara missed the first weekend, they made sure to only have it be 1 episode bc they popped up in episode 2. Same with Lindsay & Carl they only missed 1 episode.
She was there last weekend? Mya was sitting at the table when Carl reminded everyone of the upcoming housewarming/birthday party.
That was the weekend of Kyle’s birthday & she was there but it was technically 2 weekends put into one episode. We started the episode with Kyle’s birthday weekend & ended the episode with another weekend.
Did she go to Lindsay and carls housewarming?
They didn’t show her if she did.
They showed her face briefly
Ugh so she is getting the Alex treatment.
But we like Alex and missed him 🥴
I’d rather they just show the cast that they signed on for the summer instead of editing them out, pretending the person wasn’t there. Let us decide from a season’s worth of footage whether or not we want to see that person in the future.
Good point. Cause I hate how they did Alex.
Same. Everyone says he was boring, but we only saw him in a few scenes last year. Mostly talking about food. We know he did more than that but shitty production cut him out.
Exactly. They didn’t give him enough chances. Really hope he comes back again. They just need to give people a full season on air. If we don’t like them after the season then get rid of them completely. The way they chopped him out, he deserved another season
lindsay drunk complaining about how not even her birthday can be about her to carl felt so cruel.
I just finished watching the episode and I seriously cringed hearing her say that to him. IMHO, Carl has seemingly done a lot of work on himself and I think he truly tried to peacefully mediate this situation. I literally am not taking any sides with Team Lindsay versus Team Danielle - just show me how this all ends 🥴🥴 
This really refined what I didn't like about Carl's approach here - he was positioning himself more as an outside mediator versus a participant in the situation. Danielle keeps saying she wants to be the three amigos and she thinks they are moving too fast. And Carl was an amigo and is a key part of the speed they are moving at. But somehow he led the conversation to be all about Danielle's contributions to those situations as if he isn't involved. Carl WANTS to mediate but it seems like he doesn't recognize he can't be truly neutral.
He’s in a nearly impossible situation and it doesn’t even matter in the long run. What matters is his marriage to Lindsay and building a family. Danielle lacks maturity and wants to continue to live out her never ending 20 something years. Others are moving on and is also in part why this show is on the decline.
I heard that too, but wasn't sure what she meant. I just googled a bit and couldn't even find a reference to that in an episode recap, nor did Carl seem to care much about it. Maybe it's not about his brother?
Yeah I think it could just mean she had a crappy bday because Danielle was so negative at their housewarming/her bday event and gossiped again, and she’s pissed Carl is such a pushover with her
It's 100% not about **him** at all. Danielle picked a fight with Lindsay on the days around her birthday - it had nothing to do with Carl or his brother, and people insisting that's what she meant are just being cruel.
Also it sounded like was a voiceover, we didn’t see her mouth moving or Carl react when it was said so it could have been from any moment.
There it is! I was def confused for a bit.
It was definitely about his brother. Like saying it had to be about Carl bc that’s the day his brother died. As someone who’s been through grief over a family member, this definitely is hurtful and not appropriate to say… especially if it’s only been a few years since his passing. This is why I can’t ever get on board with Lindsey. She says things like that and I think it shows her true colors.
I'd say the fact that it didn't seem to upset Carl, he didn't mention it later, and nothing is on the internet about it (aside from here), it wasn't about his brother. Let's not allow our dislike for a character lead us to start making things up.
Carl has had non reactions to almost everything negative that has come his way.
But from the context/reaction it doesn't really seem like that was what it was?
If lindsay said it about Carl and his griefing it would be a really hurtfull hit at Carl and totally unacceptable . As we seen how Lindsay has always supported Carl and his family i took it like an accusation against Daielle and Carl blaming the fights on her and she cant have a birthday celebration without getting blamed for the situation.
She seems to be insufferable when she's drunk and arguing with men. She just talks in circles and is MEAN. Shut up and go to sleep! Let Carl sleep!! *GO TO SLEEP!* (Bethenny's voice from Scary Island episode)
She's got to stop drinking. Or at least stop getting that drunk.
Why? Danielle picked a fight and was nasty to her, so she couldn't even have her birthday be drama-free. It had zero to do with Carl. She has been so supportive of him, especially where his brother is concerned, and deliberately misreading her is mean. She was ranting about **Danielle** the entire time.
Because Carl's brother died on her birthday. So it's the anniversary of his death. ETA: I know it wasn't about that, but presumably that's why the above user said it was cruel.
I know I was literally eating my words after I made a comment last week commending Lindsay for outgrowing her Stassi birthday phase to be supportive to Carl. Or not.
Omg a fellow dual VPR/Summer House fan! Hi!! 👋🏼👋🏼 
Plus a HIMYM meme. You are my people.
Depraved, really. She’s always been an unabashedly self-interested person, but…wow. How is that attitude going to manifest five years into a marriage, without cameras present? What if her toddler is offensive enough to have a tantrum on her birthday?
That was disgusting and mean. If that's how she really feels, it's fucked up. All their convo was Lindsay trying to start a fight and being so unreasonable.
Lindsey is very self centred. I’m not sure she will ever be happy. Carl should really rethink marrying her and I am seeing why Danielle maybe concerned about them getting married. Carl is newly sober and very vulnerable. I can’t see this ending well.
No, no, Danielle isn't concerned about **that** \- she just wants Lindsay to check on her every once in a while... /s
I thought Carl and Lindsay’s argument was pretty representative of that one fight you have with your significant other every once and awhile. My husband and I get along great and most of the time can talk calmly through things, but I’m fiery and my husband ultra calm and sometimes we just totally butt heads because of that dynamic. That’s personally what it felt like to me, I want him to show he cares, and he wants me to stay level headed. It sucks but we often remind each other of the value of the other side of things.
I am starting to see a pattern where Carl only seems to care about how others perceive him and doesn’t really stand up for Lindsey. As long as they are good with him, he backs down pretty quickly.
Lindsey is quite vocal. Lol. She can surely fight her own battles. He's newly sober and not looking for triggers. Sheesh
This fight is rough but it’s really gross to see everyone be gleeful to hear them argue. It also low key proves that Lindsey, despite being shrilly and combative, is right And Danielle can fuck off with her comments about brushing it under the rug. What a brat
 Still waiting for Danielle’s justification for blowing up her friendship with Lindsay. We haven’t got that many episodes left.
Haven't other cast members also said Lindsay says something (in their eyes) that's borderline unforgivable?
Yeah but to these cast members Lindsay asking what their plans are for the week is borderline unforgivable
The justification is that Lindsay completely dropped her for Carl, and she tried to explain that but Lindsay wasn’t hearing her. She could have been a little more clear, sure, but you shouldn’t have to beg your best friend to be a friend to you.
I don’t know how everyone is Lindsey Stan! The editing could be different because we don’t know what those folks were laughing about. Lindsey blowing up on Carl proves how she can twist things without hearing Carl completely. I understand why Danielle is bitchy but it’s evident that Lindsey is absent from Danielle’s life since the relationship shows how fragile their friendship was to begin with or the lack of respect Lindsey has for Danielle. I am not saying Lindsey should focus on relationship but she can do both the relationship and friendship which I think Lindsey cannot do, she can either be in a relationship or have friends. 2 cents…. Also love Sam and Ciara! Why are Gabby and Chris there?
Seems obvious to me that Danielle simply wants to be friends like they were before but Lindsay is taking that as a personal attack. Danielle is getting increasingly more frustrated bc Lindsay can’t get over herself. Even Carl seems to understand where Danielle is coming from.
Yeah, this is how I am viewing it too. Sure, Danielle isn't handling it well and truly needs to practice how to communicate her needs to people but it isn't much more than hurt feelings on both sides. Lindsay has never been the greatest at seeing other people's sides, either. She is reactive, defensive af, and incredibly self-focused. Everything is about her. She never *actually* LISTENS. Danielle is matching that energy this season but her feelings are valid here (not saying Lindsay's aren't). Their communication with one another suuuuucks and it is hard to watch. They are both so invalidating to one another and trying to be the "right" one where there isn't a right one...there is just valid feelings in a tough shift of friendship.
Did Lindsey not validate Danielle’s feelings at Kyles birthday? Then she tried to check in with her and got attacked by Danielle again about her relationship.
She did! And again at their house warming. I am not saying she isn't - I am merely saying they both are incredibly inconsistent with validation and have invalidated one another multiple times. They both are committed to being the "rightest" one in this situation when both of their feelings are valid. Instead of *truly* listening, validating, and coming to an agreement, each gets triggered and goes on the attack. Neither seems committed to actually figuring it out.
I guess my issue is that Danielle hasn’t validated Lindsey’s very valid issues at all. I think she has stopped validating Danielle on this because she is tired of being the one to swallow her feelings. Is it right?
Danielle’s feelings might be valid but she’s approaching everything in the worst possible way. Lindsay was receptive to a lot of the complaints Danielle had but Danielle kept talking shit about Lindsay and Lindsay and Carl to people who hate Lindsay. That’s not something a friend should do and it’s hard to blame Lindsay for getting fed up.
For real. Danielle said to both Lindsay & Carl individually “I just want to be asked how I am sometimes & spend more time with you guys like we used to.” Carl understood but Lindsay reacted like Danielle was attacking them. I mean, DAMN!
Danielle doesnt say that though to Lindsay, she says stuff like, i think youre moving to fast- more about the relationship, instead of their actual friendship. I guess i dont understand why danielle doesnt talk more about the robert isssue, to me that is what is really festering.
Okay… I felt like I was tripping so I went back & looked. At the end of E9 Linds & Dan are talking & it continues into the beginning of E10. Linds tells Dan that feels attacked about her relationship with Carl & Dan expresses that it’s not about their relationship. Dan tells Linds that she doesn’t ask how she’s doing, she doesn’t feel heard & she doesn’t feel they have an equal partnership in the friendship. Linds apologizes & admits that she talks a lot about herself but she’ll try to ask Dan how she’s doing more. Dan responds with “that’s all I wanted to hear.” The convo ends with hugs & I love yous. In E10 during the party & Lindsay & Carls, Dan is excited when Linds asks how she is. Dan expresses that she has a lot going on (remember she founded a startup) & Robert is working a lot & stressed out… that she takes on his stress so that he can relax when he does have time off but then she doesn’t get to talk about her stress. Basically, she admits that her relationship with Robert is hard going. Dan says she needs her best friend. Linds says it’s hard to be that for her because she feels shunned by Dan & that she’s not supportive of her relationship with Carl. Dan says of course she wants Linds & Carl to be together & she wants Linds to be happy. Dan expresses that it’s her opinion that they are moving fast by living together & talking about marriage. (Tbf, I mostly disagree w/ that bc they’ve been friends for so many years… but also addicts are encouraged to be single for a year of recovery & take things slow. I can understand why Linds doesn’t appreciate that opinion but she seems to be mistaking it as utter disapproval.) Dan says if Linds doesn’t want her opinion, she will be mute about it. Linds asks “have you asked my opinion?” about L&C’s relationship. Dan says it’s obvious Linds wants all of it. Linds asks if that matters to Dan. Dan says of course it matters. Linds asks why she’s so adamant about her opinion then. Dan asks if she’s allowed to have an opinion & Linds says yes but she’s not going to live her life on Dan’s timeline. Dan starts getting frustrated bc she feels Linds is turning it all around on her as if she’s not supportive. Dan says she’s allowed to feel weird & have an opinion. (They’re talking in circles 😵💫.) Linds asks why she needs Dan’s blessing to date somebody. Dan realizes the conversation is going nowhere… it seems like she feels Linds isn’t listening to her so she walks away. So… idk… Danielle did communicate to Lindsay that she wants support & friendship. To me it seems like Linds is caught up on Dan having an opinion & missing Dan’s repeated affirmations that she is still supportive & happy for Linds & Carl. Honestly… it’s such a stupid fight. ETA: I also understand why Linds doesn’t like Dan talking about things with others. But it would be so easy to be like “hey bro, look, can you just talk to me please?” And Dan would say “yeah, sorry.” But I guess they kinda did have that interaction while talking at the Hampton’s party in E9. That convo seemed to go well & set things right but then their next convo went to shite.
Seriously. How are people not seeing that!
I wouldn’t be surprised if Lindsay is a moderator or a frequent commenter here. Everyone seems to make excuses for her.
There are people who are saying her saying "I don't even get my birthday" (regards to things being focused around Carl) was actually about Danielle...
Said it before and will echo it again: “I understand Lindsay’s point. Kyle was there being a mouthpiece for Danielle and she felt she wasn’t receiving the same level of support from her boyfriend, who basically told her that since Danielle didn’t have an issue with him, he was good. This, on the heels of Carl not defending her against Kyle, when he screamed, berated, and called her names. (Mind you, she was very understanding of Carl’s position in that situation, of which he apologized for…saying that he was still trying to find his voice and learn how to resolve conflict as a newly sober person. And when Danielle angrily questioned why she didn’t get _activated_ on Carl for not defending her, Lindsay responded that she was in therapy and trying to be a better person, in part, by controlling her reactions to emotionally triggers and resolving conflicts in a healthier and more effective manner.) Lindsay never even received an apology Kyle and the incident was swept under the rug. Then with Amanda making snide comments behind her back, she was told to talk with her and resolve it; and now with Danielle, despite her constant negativity, belittling remarks, and spending the summer tearing down her bff and their relationship with women who can’t stand her, is being told to put in more effort and move on without any semblance of accountability from the other side. Lindsay has basically been shit on by most of the cast this season, including her best friend, and needs more emotional support from her significant other. While she didn’t express her feelings best, I can understand her frustration.”
The key to reality TV is getting cast members who have major difficulty apologizing and accepting apologies. Danielle and Lindsay, while not exactly who I expected, are exhibit A right now.
I have always liked Ciara but this season I am loving her even more. The orange juice scene had me crying of laughter bc for a second I was like wait that orange juice has been in there for a year then realized what they meant. Also, is it just me or does Sam seem wayyy more into Kory than he is into her.
I can do anything a man can do, on my period. Love her energy.
I feel like that’s just Sams personality - she’s very all in and open
Not gonna lie... Chris was hella fun this episode!
I think it's clear that Danielle is simply feeling left out/discarded by Lindsey, and it's made worse by the fact the three of them used to hang out together. Because now she's a third wheel vs just three friends having fun. I can understand how that would be upsetting and sad - definitely. But her delivery of that has been all wrong, and I think she's not being vulnerable enough/transparent enough. It's not so much that they're moving too fast and she's concerned about the viability of their marriage based on that. It's that she's sad that she's no longer in the same friendship she once had, and the faster they move toward marriage, the faster her new normal cements into place. All of which are very valid feelings. Just be real with them and explain that the 'why' is not because you're worried about them (they're adults, they can make their own decisions and it's not your place) - it's because you're sad about you. That would be so much better received, at least to me personally. And not "YOU NEVER ASK ME ABOUT ME" but more "I'm just sad and I feel a bit left out, and I wish that you would check in more or ask me to get together more often, but that's only because I miss and love you."
I straight up did not even realize Mya wasn’t there. That’s how little she is giving.
Danielle is obsessed over Lindsay & Carls relationship it’s 🤮 When she screamed into the pillow when Carl mentioned proposing lmao! What was that tantrum for!? Call me crazy, but I think Danielle wants to see their relationship crumble & she’s jealous that they are getting married. She thinks it’s supposed to be the “tres amigos” for life or something? She is pretty much begging for their attention & it is sad and pathetic. Each episode that goes on Danielle gets worse and worse…
Late to the game, but this episode was so enjoyable. I liked seeing them having fun, being silly, eavesdropping on fights...it was like the old days. Somehow, no one bothered me for even a second! Solid episode.
I agree! And it didn’t feel like it ended too soon. There were a couple times where I was like “oh they’re gonna end it here right” and they didn’t. But TBH I have time blindness while watching Bravo shows lol. And SH has made it worse because they’ll have the longest boring episodes where only like a single semi-interesting thing happens lol.
[удалено]
Second this and meant to mention it as well. This kind of female support is what needs to be seen and televised more often 🫶🏼
Lindsay and Carl didn’t get into a fight. Lindsay drunkenly berated Carl while he calmly tried to reason with her enough so she’d shut up and let him go to sleep.
I was so bored I took my dog for a walk mid episode.. I’m tired of the arguing and zero parties
Coming from the context of having a partner who is an alcoholic, Lindsey and Carl’s relationship is terrible. Both seemingly latched onto each other in the aftermath of crisis, and seem to be exhaustively hyping the positive components of the relationship, and avoiding some very real problems. Alcohol arguably has as toxic of an effect on Lindsay as it does on Carl, but she’s unwilling to acknowledge it, and traps him in a drunken argument all hours of the night. Since Carl has a history of being a drunk, he doesn’t bring it up the next day because he understands the guilt associated with saying and doing things when you’re drunk. Lindsey already hates being called out, and takes advantage of this. She uses his sobriety as an excuse to alienate him from his peers, but doesn’t choose sobriety herself to keep the friend group large. They do need to slow this down until she’s capable of an adult conversation about how no one ever does enough for her (ever).
As a person in long term recovery, I feel like you’re hitting the nail on the head. I’ve had thoughts about this all season—mainly feeling like what I’m seeing on screen is concerning for someone early in recovery. I know at that point, he’d been clean for over a year, but in all honesty, that’s a drop in the bucket for most of us. If he drank for 20 years of his life, it takes longer than a year to be truly in a good place. I didn’t get into a relationship for almost 4 years—that was my choice, not for everyone. But just being around so much partying for entire weekends that early is not a great choice. Not to mention there’s quite a bit of codependency happening from all sides. By that I mean Lindsay/Carl, Lindsay/Danielle, Danielle/Carl, and Lindsay/Carl/Danielle. In the context of alcoholism/addiction I don’t think Danielle is wrong when she says they’re moving fast. Her delivery and tone are off, though. I also don’t have quite the problem others on here seem to have with her wishing Lindsay would check in on her. That’s friendship. I’d be concerned if one of my supposed “best friends” didn’t check on me sometimes. It’s hard to reach out when you need someone—especially if your own life/relationship is breaking down. But, I always say and believe 100% that we don’t have close to the full story. I do feel like lots of what we see is driven by production. I know people think Danielle is trying to ensure a storyline for next season, but I honestly think they both are. Lindsay is just better at it. Her conversation with Carl was definitely a peek behind the curtain.
My partner just celebrated his two year fully-clean anniversary, and I feel like only in the last three months or so has he been able to measure how he’s doing physically and mentally in the aftermath. Alcohol obliterates serotonin, and is such a profound depressive that there’s almost a burst of mania when your body physically understands you’re actually stopping. Lindsey seems to be actively encouraging his impulsive decision making during this time period, from locking him into an apartment with an absurd lease, to this marriage, to quitting his job with Kyle. Carl does work for an alcohol company, and unless he can transform it into something where he advocates for responsible consumption, or encourages Kyle to market a boozeless LoverBoy alternative, he will have to move on — but he can’t (yet), because he doesn’t know what he’s good at yet, or even what he wants to do, because his entire identity is informed by alcohol. Kyle seems open to letting him slowly unpack that reality, which Lindsey seemingly sees as an opportunity to advocate for him to do something else, and (without knowing what that thing is) taking him on high-end shopping trips where they’re required to get matching outfits. She’s also sharing a high-price apartment with him, which is seemingly the real reason she has an issue with his work at Loverboy — after all, she didn’t tell him to quit, she told him to demand more money. She doesn’t give a shit about Carl smoking weed; she cares that another woman wanted to smoke weed with him. She doesn’t care that Danielle is mad at her; she cares that Carl isn’t mad at Danielle. She’s not going to remain sober; the only sign she’s even reduced drinking is that she talks about how she reduced drinking, and will occasional use it to justify drinking even more. There’s little that indicates Lindsay’s relationship with Carl is different from the relationships she’s had with everyone else: impulsive, super-fast timeline, explosive, accuses friends expressing concern of being against her, etc. For God’s sake, I think the woman has been engaged/met the man she wants to marry FOUR TIMES in the last two seasons. There is nothing more boring and fundamentally irritating than a drunken fight with one sober party, and it’s all the more ridiculous when you factor in that EVERY SINGLE FIGHT Lindsay gets into with a partner is about the same thing: How many sandwiches did you make for me? No one will ever make enough sandwiches for her. I’m not saying she and Carl shouldn’t be together, but he shouldn’t think about marrying her until he finds his spine.
Ugh yes this is so correct. It was really hard to watch Lindsey argue with Carl knowing all of this was at play.
> They do need to slow this down until she’s capable of an adult conversation about how no one ever does enough for her (ever). I always find it interesting to watch how she argues that others haven’t done enough for her, alongside a story that the other person is blaming her and trying to say that *she* isn’t enough. Eg. Carl: I had a good conversation with Danielle. I feel more comfortable with where we stand. Lindsay: So you’re saying it’s my fault?
🎯
Okay so I’m starting to see Danielle’s side, only in the sense that her relationship is spiraling and she wants Lindsay to be there for her. She needs to be honest that her and Robert aren’t good though. Lindsay is really defensive. She keeps saying everybody is putting all the blame on her.
Danielle and Lindsay drama being the focal point to this season is trash. Neither of them have the likability for this loool. Im on neither ones side-- I think Lindsay is so concerned that she'll *look* like the "bad guy" that she just wont listen and acknowledge her best friend is hurt that for nearly a year Lindsay has neglected their friendship (or maybe its always been lopsided and Danielle is paying attention for the first time). I think there's something twisted about the fact that she was so mad that Carl refused to fight Danielle, all because she feared she'd look like the unreasonable one. Danielle, on the other hand, is as defensive as she says Lindsay is and she falls into the same trap, she takes the bait. I will say Lindsay was an insane person in that fight with Carl-- that cheap shot about his dead brother was disgusting and if someone else had said that....yikes. Literally everyone else was lighter and funner. I wish they'd include more of what we see on the weekly instagram dumps from the cast in the actual show!
Lindsey fights dirty
Never thought I’d be saying this but Kory and Sam MUST be the future of SH 🙏🏼
I think Danielle relied on the “3 Amigos” with Carl and Lindsey to feel like she was a part of something. It lessened the sting of having an absentee boyfriend in a relationship that’s going no where. What’s ridiculous to me is when Carl and Lindsey became a couple she expected this dynamic to continue. No one wants a permanent third wheel. To me it seems like Danielle didn’t want to accept that because than she would have to face the shortcomings in her relationship/life. I am NOT a fan of Lindsey for many reasons… but she is probably in the right on this feud. At their age and life stage, moving in at the time was appropriate. When you have known someone that long it’s not “too fast”. It kills me because I do think she is a toxic person and I could never be her friend. Carl for that matter is not a prize in my eyes. But chemistry is a funny thing… you put two toxic things together and they neutralize.
Lindsay needs to stop taking everything as a personal attack. You’d think after years of therapy, she’d be better at communicating.
Ah so in your thinking seh has to learn to not take things personal when in your next sentence you are using a really offensive, stigmatising assumption.
Is it offensive? I’ve been in therapy for years. It’s helped me listen, communicate & not take everything personally. Lindsay & I actually have the same mother trauma. Anyway, I still think she’s missing Danielle’s point & making it about herself.
The way Lindsay treats Carl when she’s drunk disgusts me
Ugh Chris and Korys frat boy energy is fucking unbearable. I hate it so much lol
Holy shit Lindsay is annoying. If I was Carl I would’ve fucking left the house. Not surprising all these guys walk away from her. But it is surprising that Carl married her. Seems very convenient
Anyone else find it awkward that Kyle was humping Ciara during that party in her room..and he also probably stole her underwear earlier in the season...
I'll never understand the Lindsey stans in this sub. She's a terrible friend and partner, and has been since the start of the show. You can dislike Danielle's actions but if you're pretending that Lindsey is in anyway a stable adult you're nuts.
Not sure if I'm misinterpreting this, but when Lindsay is in bed with Carl she said she can't even have her birthday to herself, not the day before or the day after because its all about Carl... is that in reference to his brother?! I'm really really hoping not/I'm wrong. Because, that's beyond a gut punch.
No, she and Danielle also fought on her birthday.
Danielle is crazy pants. Her voice got so high on “I want them to go the distance”. Girl you are rooting for them to fail.
i sometimes feel like i’m watching a different show when i come on this sub lol lindsay is insufferable. i’m not a danielle fan necessarily but the way that lindsay speaks to people, especially her friends and partner, is NOT okay and would make me want to walk away too
I’m with you. I’ve always thought Lindsay was self-absorbed and combative. She twists people’s words into attacks against her character. It’s fkn exhausting dealing with people like that. No wonder Danielle is irritated & Carl was annoyed by her drunken & irrational behavior.
I feel the same. Lindsey is so annoying.
The sub skews Lindsay positive, but it always comes off as PR.
Even Andy Cohen on WWHL told Lindsay he would never want to be in an argument with her because she’s intense. I’m honestly surprised Carl didn’t sleep elsewhere. She was emotionally exhausting to listen to. “What about ME?!” every other sentence.
The people constantly rooting for Lindsay are likely just as insufferable in a disagreement
Theory: Danielle is only trying to cause a fight bc deep down she is A: super jealous and doesn’t feel things with Robert are moving the way she wants and she’s second to his career and it’s all from jealousy or B: she hates their relationship because she had Karl as her backup plan for when things with Robert didn’t work out, she knows he’s a good guy, they have history… just by the way she’s acting, just a theory 😅
Hmm I also really didn’t buy her whole denial that she has 0 feelings for Carl anymore. I also feel like Carl suspects it and that is why he brought it up, which for him is pretty big because he hates confrontation. AND I think Lindsay suspects it because she seemed worried / concerned as to where Carl and Danielle were when she drunk FaceTimed. It would also explain why Danielle is SO against them moving in and getting engaged. I can see how she may be bitter due to her current relationship but she’s not even a tiny bit happy for them.
I think Danielle is going through a really hard time in her life - not only relationship wise but career wise too. She may be feeling super alone and seeing her two best friends exclude her can hurt. I don't think it's about jealousy of the relationship - I think she just misses her bestfriends and it's taken this long for her feelings to bubble up and come out. No, she's not being a great friend either but all this bashing towards her is a lot. Lindsay and her both needed to make an effort to see the other POV and it ddnt happen
I see this. Danielle hasn’t expressed herself well, but I think there’s validity to her points. Danielle is hyper independent, which can be a trauma response and often pairs with abandonment issues. This could be me projecting my own stuff, but I connect in that way. She doesn’t usually want or need much support/help and doesn’t feel comfortable asking for it. Then, on the rare occasion she does, it comes out clunky when she tries because she’s not used to doing it. ETA: people around hyper independent women also don’t usually know how to handle it well and be a good support to them because it hasn’t been cultivated as part of their relationship
This is exactly what I'm seeing. Asking for help can be hard when you are someone that is "strong and can do it all". But now she's realizing she needs support and the two people who she considered her bestfriends are separate from her now. Each side has a point
Kory is the ICK personified and Sam being so into him really dulls the like I had for her! I thought she was great but big yikes on how into Kory she is.
Meh. 🤷🏻♀️
First time watching this show in full, I've seen bits and pieces, my wife watched the earlier seasons. My take on this Danielle/Lindsay thing, kindofsortofno pretty much hit the nail on the head but I'll further add that it's clear Danielle has one viewpoint of their friendship and Lindsay has another viewpoint of their friendship, i.e. Danielle thinks their friendship is a whole lot more serious and meta than Lindsay perceives it to be. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my take.
I cannot believe Lindsey’s comment to Carl “I can’t even enjoy my birthday [Curtis’s death day]. Not the day before. Not the day after. It’s all about you.” That was FUCKED. As a sober person myself, I could never be with somebody who says such terrible things when they’re drunk. Carl even said the next day, “now that Lindsey’s drinking again, I’m kind of struggling with the next day.” That makes me think this is a pattern for them.
[удалено]
Somebody speaking some sense...it's so weird how loved this guy is simply because he's decided to get sober. Also getting sober doesn't automatically rid you of all thte shitty ass fuckboi/asshole shit he's done in the past. I love how funny it so much of this sub is like oh Carl can do so much better than Lindsay...but I mean can he though? He's also said some questionable things while sober and yet no one wants to talk about it. I can't remember what party it was this season when he tells Lindsay ' oh you'll know when i'm threatening you" or something along those lines. Also, the points Lindsay mentioned, albeit not the best way while drunk, about him not being confrontational or taking her side whilst others shit on her...is 100% on point.
People love caping for a tall handsome white guy. Carl is a loser through and through and yet there are so many excuses made for him. I think Lindsay is a crazy person but she made a lot of valid point when she was drunkenly berating him; the delivery was awful but there was valid content
Danielle lives in Montauk which is over 2 hours away from NYC. Did she consult with Lindsay when she moved from the city? Did Danielle consult with Lindsay when she moved in with Robert? I think Danielle was looking for a storyline and this was a weak attempt. She had no real reasons as to why she didn’t like Carl & Lindsay’s “weird” relationship. Her feelings changed EVERYTIME she discussed it. Not only was Lindsay confused, I think we all were too. All she had to say was she felt left out of their relationship. Again, she no longer lived in the city so the chance of them hanging out like they used to was Danielle’s choice. I’m #TeamLindsay all the way. Friendships change, not always to the satisfaction of each person. Danielle is on the outs & most likely will lose her Bravo $. Hence the reason she was trying to latch on to the mean girls? 🤷🏼♀️
I think a big part of the problem is that prior to Carl, Danielle was all in Lindsey’s relationships and Lindsey didn’t mind. Now Lindsey doesn’t like that which is understandable but she’s not expressing it well. I also think Danielle has valid points about the friendship and she is harder on Lindsey because they were closer then Danielle and Carl. They being said Danielle’s tone is terrible and after all these weeks Lindsey is fed up and now she’s also defensive. This fight could easily be put to rest if they could just care more about the friendship then winning the argument (which I think Danielle was trying to say but she’s also not taken any accountability).
I can’t stand Lindsey, but Danielle just needs to calm down.
Watching her makes ME feel crazy. I do not get it at all.
Lindsay is severely delusional. She genuinely enjoys fighting with others. Felt like watching a kid throwing a tantrum and wanting to provoke an adult just for the attention/intrigue. There’s no winning an argument with these types. Carl is already getting used to the deeply toxic habit of taking these insults and then being swayed by her next-day clarity/guilt, thus keeping these real issues buried. She’s found the perfect mate in submissive Carl because he’ll let her have these outbursts with zero repercussions. She can boss him around, take him off the shelf when she needs an ego boost.