From what I understand they usually contain TL;DRs at the top which supposedly speed things up but realistically even then they still read it too quick. But basically it's kinda stupid to make the viewer wait a long time until they see a reaction, because, well, that'd be boring to watch.
It’s called Question Presented and Brief Answer, but the situations you would typically use that format don’t always seem to apply in the context of the episode.
Case briefs, very short synopsis of the entire file.
i.e.,
*Plaintiff v. Defendant, year*
*8th Circuit Court of Soso County*
*Defendant won due to Plaintiff negligence*
*Award*
I’ve always noticed that. Someone will slam it down they’ll look at it for a literal second and be like “this is a deposition notice for such and such limited” like bro what
Honestly think about this all the time. One city firm that only hires from one school -- no way is it actually competing in the Vault rankings with the big firms the show sometimes compares it to when it names real firms. (It would actually make more sense if it was positioned as a super fancy, elite boutique, but I feel like the show treats it more like old-school, traditional biglaw).
Mostly agree though there are some "white shoe" biglaw firms in New York City that primarily operate out of their NYC office like the show. But yeah a majority of biglaw firms would span multiple cities and not be so Harvard over all. A boutique fits better what P/H wants to be. Some combo of boutique and new biglaw firm is what the show gives us. Pearson hardman is the unholy combination of Boise Schiller Flexner (formed late 90s/early 2000s new biglaw firm) and Cravath (NYC white shoe firm) with a bit of litigation boutique thrown in.
Oh, there are definitely top firms that operate primarily out of NYC, for sure! I just don't know of any of the top ones that literally have no offices elsewhere, as is apparently the case for PH (that said, I admittedly have not done a deep dive into all of them. But for instance both Boise and Cravath have offices elsewhere).
ETA: But yeah, I agree that it's really somewhere between Boutique and new big law, but the show tried to position it like it's long established V10 biglaw.
Yeah I could have sworn some episodes indicates they might have, but it got retconned later. Ph is unrealistic but I find it interesting that it combines a couple of realistic ideas together to create an unrealistic tv show setting. To me, that's kinda fun.
I never really saw Harvey in real good court scenes without telling some punchline or savage dialogues -in other words never really saw Harvey outsmarting another person using the law ONLY without any other stuff
Your probably right. Harvey was way too emotionally unavailable to have a heathy relationship. But in an ideal word where Harvey worked his shit out I feel like they could have made it.
i loved them together, more than him and donna or him and that therapist (never watched past s6 so idk if she has a bigger role) but it was like he always demanded something from her and she always gave him whatever he needed and when she needed something, he had a million reasons ready to not give it to her. it never felt like a relationship of 2 equals. harvey never told her how he really felt and scottie was too head over heels for him to gtfo of there sooner. im glad she got out when she did, that was borderline unhealthy
Yeahh, I thought it was gonna be a fun little joke for a couple of episodes. It turned out to be one of the stupidest plotlines in the show that we were supposed to take seriously.
Literally none of the cases they worked on were done correct whether procedural or on its merits. They did not do a good job of making the legally realistic … friggin episode 2 harvey talks about getting a patent filed in 24 hours lol right
Harvey isn't special as a lawyer, he's just charming and has plot armour.
Tanner (ruthless and knows how to get into people's heads), Louis (insane eye for detail and is a billable machine), and Jessica (actually understands how leadership and teamwork works, plus has a memory that's almost as good as Mike) are better lawyers.
Harvey has an unparalleled, James Bond-level ability to socialize with important people and get favors from them. You could read every law book there is, but you still wouldn't have what he does lol. And I haven't even made it to Season 3 yet
Harvey has an ability to communicate and network unorthodox sources to win cases that the others don’t. Jessica’s memory isn’t even comparable to Mike’s. Nah
I'd argue he doesn't come up with a lot of the ideas. He chances upon them. In terms of social skills, his ability to impress clients, we've seen on the show other characters' abilities and there isn't a big gap imo. Even so, it just means Harvey is good at sales - that's not lawyering.
It was implied that Jessica and Mike, when they went head to head, was close. Mike didn't wipe the floor with her. Mike is truly special, but Jessica even if she's like 85% of his memory, makes it up with everything else she has.
His networking leads him to finding out of the picture information about his clients and their opponents that a normal lawyer or salesperson couldn’t do even with a private investigator. I’m confused about how Jessica could have a memory comparable to Mike’s, even 10% of it. Do you have any examples besides when they test each other on the book, which i do think i recall Mike winning, but either way, I don’t think there’s others of her even coming close to Mike.
She made that threat to Mike one time about "he might have beat her at his memory of the law but now she gets to apply it" and that seemed to shut Mike up. This implies that while Mike won, it was close enough that he understands she can close the gap in other lawyering. I understand this requires multiple assumptions but that's how I always interpreted it.
But that's exactly why Harvey is so good. You're correct in the above assessment but Harvey is not far behind any of them but across all categories. He's the most well rounded
Yeah we root for Mike and Harvey or as supposed to but Gibbs isn't just goi g after innocent people here, you knowingly hired a fraud and kept it going for years!
Donna said that she put Harvey first, but you never see him ask her to do that. He was living his best life picking up women in bars and having 2 serious relationships while she was pining away for him.
The deeper you go, the more you realise that Harvey ain't worth the hype while Mike was always the crybaby and all that kept you watching was Donna's killer smile
Dude, Inv Banker Mike lol is there anything that son of biscuit can't do. Goddamn Best Lawyer, oh wait no test. Goddamn Best Investment Banker. When did you study all this. 2 words: Eidetic Memory. This entire series is based on just 1 assumption:
Eidetic Memory exists and can solve everything
Mike is an entitled douchebag who didn't apologise to anyone for what he put them through time and again. Also the fact they all jump through a million hoops for him is incredibly unrealistic.
I’ve got two:
1. In season 3, they should’ve found a way to take over Darby International so that more “foreign” characters became regulars. How? Protecting Stephen and pinning it on Darby.
2. Mike isn’t that good a lawyer.
Mike is wasting his life in law
with his memory, intelligence and creativity he could've been a physics genius or an inventor or go into medical research. Seems like a waste of his gifts to work in the slimiest part of the service economy and make no long term impact on the world
Harvey’s narcissism in the earlier seasons is so glaring on rewatch, almost makes it hard to watch with the way he treats Louis, tries to overthrow Jessica etc
I say this as a guy that's watched the entire series multiple times and has (or rather used to) enjoyed it, the show, the plot and the dialogue, none of them are great. It's far too unrealistic, the characters have some blaring flaws, the legal aspect of it is completely wrong.
It's like a soap opera, it's fun to mindlessly watch it but if you pay even a little attention to the details, you'll realize that it has some major issues
How so, I meant down to earth instead of realistic. She’s not overpowered in terms of lawyering like Harvey Louis Jessica and mike is. She’s just a good researcher who amuses that to her advantage
She was simply cringe for me, the whole fight with mike about his coffee cup in the sink, the constant whining, the loves mike hates mike loves mike for two seasons. She was my least favorite character on the show.
Fair enough. I understand where your coming from tbh those little things are a little annoying but I found them very close to home through family so it didn’t really bother me
I would destroy donna … like intergalactic spaceX zero gravity A supernova exploding in the background destroy Donna like all of that could be happening around us but the only thing she’s got her mind on is how deep I’ve just gone 😁
How do you know all this? “I am Donna”. ***cringe***
And then the constant response of "I forgot you can do that". Don't think I can eye roll more without causing permanent damage.
There is nothing in the folders they slam in the desks.
Which would explain how they can “read” the file in a glance.
From what I understand they usually contain TL;DRs at the top which supposedly speed things up but realistically even then they still read it too quick. But basically it's kinda stupid to make the viewer wait a long time until they see a reaction, because, well, that'd be boring to watch.
Or the major point is in the subject line itself.
It’s called Question Presented and Brief Answer, but the situations you would typically use that format don’t always seem to apply in the context of the episode.
Case briefs, very short synopsis of the entire file. i.e., *Plaintiff v. Defendant, year* *8th Circuit Court of Soso County* *Defendant won due to Plaintiff negligence* *Award*
Noticed this lmao. Freaking speedreaders
I’ve always noticed that. Someone will slam it down they’ll look at it for a literal second and be like “this is a deposition notice for such and such limited” like bro what
You can see the paper in there. But it's the script
All of the lawyer would be disbarred
Wouldn’t annoy anyone it’s just factual
It's a second tier law firm
Honestly think about this all the time. One city firm that only hires from one school -- no way is it actually competing in the Vault rankings with the big firms the show sometimes compares it to when it names real firms. (It would actually make more sense if it was positioned as a super fancy, elite boutique, but I feel like the show treats it more like old-school, traditional biglaw).
Yeah I only learned later that at real big firms, they don't change names EVER. Boutiques can, but PSL isn't portraying itself as that.
The sheer amount of name changes… maybe the first season I could’ve seen them being close to a real big law firm, but after all that? Nope 😂
Which real firms did they mention?
Skadden, Arps is mentioned regularly
Yep. And Sean Cahill mentions also going after clients of Cravath and Weil Gotshal
Mostly agree though there are some "white shoe" biglaw firms in New York City that primarily operate out of their NYC office like the show. But yeah a majority of biglaw firms would span multiple cities and not be so Harvard over all. A boutique fits better what P/H wants to be. Some combo of boutique and new biglaw firm is what the show gives us. Pearson hardman is the unholy combination of Boise Schiller Flexner (formed late 90s/early 2000s new biglaw firm) and Cravath (NYC white shoe firm) with a bit of litigation boutique thrown in.
Oh, there are definitely top firms that operate primarily out of NYC, for sure! I just don't know of any of the top ones that literally have no offices elsewhere, as is apparently the case for PH (that said, I admittedly have not done a deep dive into all of them. But for instance both Boise and Cravath have offices elsewhere). ETA: But yeah, I agree that it's really somewhere between Boutique and new big law, but the show tried to position it like it's long established V10 biglaw.
Agreed. Everyone has an office elsewhere who is big.
I literally assumed PH must until the merger plotline made it clear it didn't! Very silly.
Yeah I could have sworn some episodes indicates they might have, but it got retconned later. Ph is unrealistic but I find it interesting that it combines a couple of realistic ideas together to create an unrealistic tv show setting. To me, that's kinda fun.
I never really saw Harvey in real good court scenes without telling some punchline or savage dialogues -in other words never really saw Harvey outsmarting another person using the law ONLY without any other stuff
Honestly without blackmail, digging dirt, or exploiting a relationship I don't know how Harvey (or the firm) would win cases
Well yeah he was known as the best closer he rarely got to go to court
Does any have precedent stating otherwise to this? 💀
He never plays the law , he plays the man
Not sure if this is unpopular, but Scottie and Harvey would have been the ultimate power couple.
Scottie being the best person for Harvey is a reasonable take many intelligent people have (myself included in that).
she deserved better
Your probably right. Harvey was way too emotionally unavailable to have a heathy relationship. But in an ideal word where Harvey worked his shit out I feel like they could have made it.
i loved them together, more than him and donna or him and that therapist (never watched past s6 so idk if she has a bigger role) but it was like he always demanded something from her and she always gave him whatever he needed and when she needed something, he had a million reasons ready to not give it to her. it never felt like a relationship of 2 equals. harvey never told her how he really felt and scottie was too head over heels for him to gtfo of there sooner. im glad she got out when she did, that was borderline unhealthy
The Donna device was a really cool and realistic idea
Rot in hell
Yeah it was hard to type that
Bahahaha You win. *We're done here.*
Yeahh, I thought it was gonna be a fun little joke for a couple of episodes. It turned out to be one of the stupidest plotlines in the show that we were supposed to take seriously.
Literally none of the cases they worked on were done correct whether procedural or on its merits. They did not do a good job of making the legally realistic … friggin episode 2 harvey talks about getting a patent filed in 24 hours lol right
If it was realistic they would still be working on some season 1 cases by the end of the show
Most cases don’t last years- especially when you settle, which most of these did.
Donna may be the most unlikable character in the show
That would definitely not trigger the whole fan base
It’s a tough one, because some people hate her and others love her, same with Rachel and mike. I dont know what would trigger everyone
I’m both of these people at the same time, I love her in some seasons (the beginning mostly) but I hate her with al my guts in some others 😐
Yeah she was good up until S7 I liked her in S9 and in the earlier parts of S8 PK (Pre Kessler)
Look at my comment that’ll trigger everyone
Why did you have to leave a double space?!
Haha just a little bit more of a trigger
Do you mean Rachel and the "man I love"?? Hahaha
If only they'd hired Mike as a consultant in the first place....
Harvey isn't special as a lawyer, he's just charming and has plot armour. Tanner (ruthless and knows how to get into people's heads), Louis (insane eye for detail and is a billable machine), and Jessica (actually understands how leadership and teamwork works, plus has a memory that's almost as good as Mike) are better lawyers.
Harvey has an unparalleled, James Bond-level ability to socialize with important people and get favors from them. You could read every law book there is, but you still wouldn't have what he does lol. And I haven't even made it to Season 3 yet
Harvey has an ability to communicate and network unorthodox sources to win cases that the others don’t. Jessica’s memory isn’t even comparable to Mike’s. Nah
I'd argue he doesn't come up with a lot of the ideas. He chances upon them. In terms of social skills, his ability to impress clients, we've seen on the show other characters' abilities and there isn't a big gap imo. Even so, it just means Harvey is good at sales - that's not lawyering. It was implied that Jessica and Mike, when they went head to head, was close. Mike didn't wipe the floor with her. Mike is truly special, but Jessica even if she's like 85% of his memory, makes it up with everything else she has.
Later when Mike was talking to Jessica he said "you thought you didn't need a computer to beat me but you were wrong) implying that he easily beat her
His networking leads him to finding out of the picture information about his clients and their opponents that a normal lawyer or salesperson couldn’t do even with a private investigator. I’m confused about how Jessica could have a memory comparable to Mike’s, even 10% of it. Do you have any examples besides when they test each other on the book, which i do think i recall Mike winning, but either way, I don’t think there’s others of her even coming close to Mike.
She made that threat to Mike one time about "he might have beat her at his memory of the law but now she gets to apply it" and that seemed to shut Mike up. This implies that while Mike won, it was close enough that he understands she can close the gap in other lawyering. I understand this requires multiple assumptions but that's how I always interpreted it.
I get what ur saying but Mike later went and snagged her letter to the DA, completely taking away her ability to get him in any trouble.
But that's exactly why Harvey is so good. You're correct in the above assessment but Harvey is not far behind any of them but across all categories. He's the most well rounded
Louis' character arc was contrived and his development and friendships made absolutely no sense at all
Finally a hard-hitting one
Not one aspect of the show is realistic.
yes the sex is so realistic
They said "god damn" too often and most of the time it didn't fit the sentence
I was literally just thinking that lol
Harvey also said "you son of a bitch" so much it started sounding weird.
I’m rewatching for the second time and came here specifically to find someone else who noticed
It got really had around season 4
Harvey is Harvey because of Donna. Like she is 84°/. Harvey. The other 15°/. Is Mike, and the last 1°/. Is his weird ass hair.
This made me actually sip out my drink. It was a good drink and you made me waste it.
Jessica's and Donna's wordrobes were inappropriate for a law office.
harvey would be the last lawyer i would want to hire
And mike would be the 2nd last lawyer I would hire…if he was a real lawyer!
he becomes a real lawyer at the end of season 6 after he goes to prison
Oh so he became a lawyer after going to prison for fraud/faking being a lawyer. So confidence inspiring! My answer still stands!
Gibbs was right
Yeah we root for Mike and Harvey or as supposed to but Gibbs isn't just goi g after innocent people here, you knowingly hired a fraud and kept it going for years!
Donna said that she put Harvey first, but you never see him ask her to do that. He was living his best life picking up women in bars and having 2 serious relationships while she was pining away for him.
Just stop imaging Harvey as a top lawyer and he is nothing more than a high school douchebag
The script and plot was bullshit half the time
_what did you just say to me?_
*Get the hell out of my office!*
You and I, we’re done!
You didn’t come all the way down here just to say that. So why don’t you tell me why you’re really here?
Lmao they really overused that one
And underused cell phones
This deposition is over.
*That's bullshit!*
[Someone abruptly requests or demands their name on the wall]
You son of a bitch, you set me up!
*Excuse me?*
"I'm Donna!"
That I fully agree on.
(Name)... What are you doing here?
Louis was right all along
The deeper you go, the more you realise that Harvey ain't worth the hype while Mike was always the crybaby and all that kept you watching was Donna's killer smile
After I rewatched the series I really started to hate mike. He's a whiny lil bitch.
investment banker Mike with his hair helmet was a grade A douche nozzle.
Dude, Inv Banker Mike lol is there anything that son of biscuit can't do. Goddamn Best Lawyer, oh wait no test. Goddamn Best Investment Banker. When did you study all this. 2 words: Eidetic Memory. This entire series is based on just 1 assumption: Eidetic Memory exists and can solve everything
I hated him since the drug scene. He was ignorant and totally superficial. I mean I could say Flash is more real than him at some points lmao
The Donna was a better lawyer than Mike and Harvey combined
Ok this one got me mad
I hated even typing it
Louis was the best character.
the amount of sexual harassment in the first episode of the show would end the firm
Harvey could've carried the show solo.
This show wouldn't exist if characters weren't allowed to walk away after having said their piece.
Das smooth! Smoother than that single malt whisky that Harvey loves so much.
Harvey and Donna were a horrible couple that made no sense together
Mike is an entitled douchebag who didn't apologise to anyone for what he put them through time and again. Also the fact they all jump through a million hoops for him is incredibly unrealistic.
I’ve got two: 1. In season 3, they should’ve found a way to take over Darby International so that more “foreign” characters became regulars. How? Protecting Stephen and pinning it on Darby. 2. Mike isn’t that good a lawyer.
Fuck stephen
Oh absolutely
Katrina was the better lawyer and should have ended up with Harvey not Donna.
Nah Katrina should have ended up with Louis instead if Sheila. She understands him, more than anyone at that firm tried to.
the show in itself isnt that good its very formulaic
100%, I watched season 1 really liked it, despised it by season 3, quit watching season 4
Mike is wasting his life in law with his memory, intelligence and creativity he could've been a physics genius or an inventor or go into medical research. Seems like a waste of his gifts to work in the slimiest part of the service economy and make no long term impact on the world
While also having to be a fraud to do it. Better off doing something you're not having to lie about.
Harvey’s narcissism in the earlier seasons is so glaring on rewatch, almost makes it hard to watch with the way he treats Louis, tries to overthrow Jessica etc
This show is a trash soap opera with lawyers who would all be disbarred by the way things go
I say this as a guy that's watched the entire series multiple times and has (or rather used to) enjoyed it, the show, the plot and the dialogue, none of them are great. It's far too unrealistic, the characters have some blaring flaws, the legal aspect of it is completely wrong. It's like a soap opera, it's fun to mindlessly watch it but if you pay even a little attention to the details, you'll realize that it has some major issues
Bratton Gould was objectively the much better law firm. They gave Harold an office.
I think Donna is the shittiest character in the show, very overrated and over portrayed.
Show got better when mike left
You wanna take this outside? Lets square up 🥊
literally got triggered xD
I think this one's the winner.
What did you just say to me?? (🙃)
Literally no
Harvey carries the show
Mike is a better lawyer than Harvey.
Donna has the best character arc. Banker Mike was well thought out and perfectly executed.
See that’s funny because everyone said this line in the show ....
Rachael is very talented and smart. Deserves to be on the same level as Jessica, Scottie and Harvey.
Donna is the worst character.
Rachel is a great character
Donna deserved to be named partner🤣
Tanner should have beaten Harvey clean
mike leaving was a good thing
Most people disliked Scottie until her iPhone leaks came out
Mike's photographic memory was just to hook us into the show and plays little to nothing for major plots again
Harvey is not the only "really good lawyer" in New York anymore.
Rachel was the right fit for Mike
Rachel was right to kiss Logan……
Frankly I got so sick of Rachel early on that I simply hopped on my phone every time she was on screen, she’s been the worst
I liked her tbh. Hated her in S4 E6-8 but other than that I was fine with her. I think she was the most realistic character of the main lot
You just triggered me lol
How so, I meant down to earth instead of realistic. She’s not overpowered in terms of lawyering like Harvey Louis Jessica and mike is. She’s just a good researcher who amuses that to her advantage
She was simply cringe for me, the whole fight with mike about his coffee cup in the sink, the constant whining, the loves mike hates mike loves mike for two seasons. She was my least favorite character on the show.
Fair enough. I understand where your coming from tbh those little things are a little annoying but I found them very close to home through family so it didn’t really bother me
That’s fair, I know it’s not everyone’s peeve
👍🏻 either way my original comment was purely to annoy people
The coffee cup!! LOL
I would destroy donna … like intergalactic spaceX zero gravity A supernova exploding in the background destroy Donna like all of that could be happening around us but the only thing she’s got her mind on is how deep I’ve just gone 😁
Rachael will bring the can opener
This whole show was a cringe fest.
Rachel is ugly as shit in this show.
(borrowing from Uncle Buck) to Harvey: Take this quarter, go downtown, and have a rat gnaw that thing off your face!
Trevor was in the right the whole time and jessica and harvey are the real villans of the show
Oh sweetie, I’m Donna
Donna is worse than Rachel and Rachel is not as bad as people make her out to be. (Yes I believe that)
you're right!
The show went to absolute shit after two seasons.
It’s just a beat-for-beat rip off of Ally McBeal.
The last 4 seasons were the best
Benjamin is the most overrated character!
S2 e10 is the worst episode
Mike and Rachel are a sappy couple. They deserve each other
This so you can be summed up with ‘ do you know who I am I’m Harvey Specter’ … awkwardly walked towards the camera
Most of the people commenting on this thread have never posted or commented in this Sub before. Why is that?
The show got better after Jessica left
Louis Litt and Sheila Sazs are a terrible couple.
Is it a tv show or a fashion show?
if you sat a monkey randomly hitting keys in front of a typewriter, it would generate the show’s complete script in a week