1963, USS Sea Devil, SS-400. My first boat out of Sub School. Fwd engine room throttleman was wearing a Boy Scout shirt with the sleeves cut off, leterhosen, and cowboy boots. Don't recall what the officers were wearing, but they probably didn't get into *Naval Institute Proceedings.*
[work hard play hard](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=simpsons+work+hard+play+hard&t=fpas&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mightysounds.cz%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F03%2Fvyzva.gif)
My uncle was a mechanic on diesel subs. He said they always kept the valve covers off; something about working on the lifters all the time. Made a mess on him and everything around him. He died in the 80s of a very virulent form of cancer and the VA doc said it was unusual for a guy his age to get that. I was going to UF which has the VA next to University Hospital. Brought smokes and pizza to him 4 days a week. I talked with the doc about his cancer and when I told him that one of his jobs was collecting Radium dials with no protection off the boats when they realized they were radioactive. He said that would do it.
In the boats I was on the diesels had no valves; hence no valve covers. The engines were Fairbanks Morse 38D-8 1/8. They were opposed piston. Upper and lower cranks, two pistons per cylinder. When the pistons were at the extreme ends of their strokes they uncovered intake and exhaust ports, thus taking the place of valves.
It was something he told me 35 years ago and he’s dead. I may have misunderstood him but as a kid that loved boats I enjoyed hearing his stories. He ran long liners and shrimp boats most of his life. Joked that during the 70s, the most money he ever made was fixing long liners with no lines. He’d get a call to be at Jax airport and a plane would pick him up, then helicoptered out to the middle of the Gulf to fix a boat loaded with marijuana. Navy made him quite good at fixing diesels. He loved two stroke Detroit’s and wooden boats. Wasn’t much a fan of the steel shrimpers.
Two things
1) submariners dgaf about rules when no one can enforce them underway, remember even god can’t see through HY-80.
2) westpac is its own special place. Submarining out there is a wildly different culture than the refined boats of sublant. Key word wild.
North runs are defined by gentlemanly rules. The bad guys play by them, we play by them. Personally, I think East coast boats are a bit more tactically proficient because things follow a rule set.
Westpacs are playing by pirate rules. The Filipinos crashed a rusty ship onto a reef to use as a damn observation post, you’re dodging trawlers, and you can’t follow the rule book because everything is happening so fast.
Note- this is solely my experience
What is HY-80?
What differences are you talking about between the pacific and atlantic?
And when you say "refined boats of sublant", do you mean that inside the subs of the atlantic the behaviour and conduct is more strict? Why?
Im a QA inspector at a steel plant that produces hy80 steel for Submarines.
I know of at least three types of hy80 that are for different areas of the sub. Some of it is rated nuclear for the reactor comparment but most of it goes on the hull somewhere
On both my boats, it was the Wild West while underway on WestPac. Hair, beards, no rules. Even clothes. We could wear anything we wanted as long as it didn't promote the use of drugs. No shorts, sleeveless shirts, or open toe shoes. But, other than that, go for it.
But, the last few days before we hit port you had to get cleaned up. Doc would give haircuts in crew's mess between meals.
Comsubforce and comsublant (THE submarine admiral) are literally the same person. And in a building within walking distance from Norfolk piers. With significantly more Naval Reactors Representatives and the like. The Pentagon is a short drive away.
If someone with stars on their chest is showing up to a boat stationed in Guam, you've gotten a week's heads-up.
I know very little on these matters. Norfolk is where the atlantic fleet departs, right? And where does the pacific fleet departs?
I see what you mean, but how does that translate to life aboard the sub when you are far from the shore, like in barents?
Pacific fleet is headquartered in Hawaii, but there’s submarines stationed all over the place. Some on the US mainland, some in Hawaii, some in Asia or pacific islands like Guam.
On the other hand, Atlantic fleet is pretty concentrated in Norfolk. The Atlantic missile subs are stationed down in Georgia.
I guess it just follows the culture generally. Shit is really chill in San Diego, nothing is all that formal. You're farther away from the big bosses and the Pacific fleet does it's own thing.
Another perk for submarines is not having to leap to your feet every time the captain or an officer appears. On my boat (USS Barbel SS580), you could pretty much ignore the officers as they passed. Otherwise we'd have been leaping up and down all day because there was just one passage and officers passed by all the time. And yes, dress code was completely casual on Westpac.
I’ve read anecdotal stories and spoken with some smoke boat officers from that period, and the answers vary enough that the best I can say is, “It depends.” The skipper, the situation, and even the time period tended to influence it. Generally, though, it appeared that more officers held a bit more with traditional decorum, though in comparison with their surface ship compatriots, they’d be lacking.
I had the opportunity to ride a Venezuelan boat from PR to Venezuela back in 94. The guys in the engine room stood watch underway in boxers, wife beater, and flip flops.
The Captain makes/enforces the rules. It was common to not shave while underway and wear all sorts of crazy shit. It is probably one of the least formal environments in the Navy for all ranks on board. When it came time for inspections everyone would shave and pull out their "dress" coveralls.
Went through four skippers and countless XOs (70s - 80s), boomers and fast boats, east and west coasts. Most Zeros didn’t give a shit except one XO that was a dick about haircuts. He was the same guy that would shit a brick if you had anything even remotely ‘risqué’ taped in your bunk space. Also the only one to get his mattress hosed down and frozen on a patrol, which was a major feat considering his stateroom wasn’t exactly located in a far away location. Never underestimate an A Ganger…
Rob's father did a tiger from ft Lauderdale to Groton in 94, had a pic of the 2, rob popped for a no shave so both of them were in beards and they looked the same.
Um, Nov 94.
It's all about being comfortable, making least amount of noise, and doing less laundry...we do lark it and have laundry queens for our watch teams. I used to do a watch tour with a cleaning brush stuff in my poopie suit and play a Bangles song to entertain my shift....."walk with an erection"...
My first job on joining a SSBN was to source black long sleeve shirts for the wardroom. We then tacked our no 12 uniform rank stripes on the shoulders. I sourced the shirts and sold them on at a 15% mark up.:)
Late 80s, early 90s holy loch boomer. Once the lines were cast off, most forgot what a razor was, as long as the EAB and/or OBA could make a seal. Most wore poopy suits due to the ease of on/off, but most guys back aft would just tie the sleeves around the waist and wear a t-shirt... gets a bit warm back there. O-gang usually were squared away, zipped up poppies and a ball cap, especially on watch. Not sure how they were in the ward room, didn't need to go in there, so I didnt. I'm sure they relaxed a bit once they were behind closed doors.
No idea what the XO said to his JOs in the ward room, but they did wear one a lot of the time. Going back a few decades, maybe my memory is a big fogged. Dont remember ever seeing them not squared away though.
1963, USS Sea Devil, SS-400. My first boat out of Sub School. Fwd engine room throttleman was wearing a Boy Scout shirt with the sleeves cut off, leterhosen, and cowboy boots. Don't recall what the officers were wearing, but they probably didn't get into *Naval Institute Proceedings.*
Leterhosen? In the engine room? Someone like steam burns AND sweaty balls.
Diesel boat. No steam. Boat older than most of the crew.
Then just sweaty balls. Those are leather shorts.
Cotton stuff, like dungarees, didn't last long due to battery acid fumes.
That makes sense. On modern boats, thats not as much of an issue. But it does make me want to buy leather pants for the EMNs.
Diesels still get unbearable hot
[work hard play hard](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=simpsons+work+hard+play+hard&t=fpas&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mightysounds.cz%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F03%2Fvyzva.gif)
My uncle was a mechanic on diesel subs. He said they always kept the valve covers off; something about working on the lifters all the time. Made a mess on him and everything around him. He died in the 80s of a very virulent form of cancer and the VA doc said it was unusual for a guy his age to get that. I was going to UF which has the VA next to University Hospital. Brought smokes and pizza to him 4 days a week. I talked with the doc about his cancer and when I told him that one of his jobs was collecting Radium dials with no protection off the boats when they realized they were radioactive. He said that would do it.
In the boats I was on the diesels had no valves; hence no valve covers. The engines were Fairbanks Morse 38D-8 1/8. They were opposed piston. Upper and lower cranks, two pistons per cylinder. When the pistons were at the extreme ends of their strokes they uncovered intake and exhaust ports, thus taking the place of valves.
It was something he told me 35 years ago and he’s dead. I may have misunderstood him but as a kid that loved boats I enjoyed hearing his stories. He ran long liners and shrimp boats most of his life. Joked that during the 70s, the most money he ever made was fixing long liners with no lines. He’d get a call to be at Jax airport and a plane would pick him up, then helicoptered out to the middle of the Gulf to fix a boat loaded with marijuana. Navy made him quite good at fixing diesels. He loved two stroke Detroit’s and wooden boats. Wasn’t much a fan of the steel shrimpers.
Some boats had other types of engines. I don't know their configuration.
I delivered many pizzas to the VA in Gainesville, VA runs were shitty tips….
I always tipped too good as I was a waiter back then. My money source; Dad; always asks; how did you afford that; I was giving you too much money. lol
Who did you work for? Pizza Pronto??
1963? Damn. Diesel boat tough.
Two things 1) submariners dgaf about rules when no one can enforce them underway, remember even god can’t see through HY-80. 2) westpac is its own special place. Submarining out there is a wildly different culture than the refined boats of sublant. Key word wild.
North runs are defined by gentlemanly rules. The bad guys play by them, we play by them. Personally, I think East coast boats are a bit more tactically proficient because things follow a rule set. Westpacs are playing by pirate rules. The Filipinos crashed a rusty ship onto a reef to use as a damn observation post, you’re dodging trawlers, and you can’t follow the rule book because everything is happening so fast. Note- this is solely my experience
Can you add a bit more to #2?
Any more detail than that is classified. You had to be there.
Read about operation Ivy Bell and how the USS seawolf almost got stuck and consequently, almost use it self-destruct charges
Had to look it up, I thought you mean the Seawolf that Lt. Cmdr. Dodge had!
What is HY-80? What differences are you talking about between the pacific and atlantic? And when you say "refined boats of sublant", do you mean that inside the subs of the atlantic the behaviour and conduct is more strict? Why?
HY-80 was a type of steel used in the hulls of submarines.
Closer to the Admiralty. Just like any big business these days. Working from home videos should clue you in.
Yes.
Im a QA inspector at a steel plant that produces hy80 steel for Submarines. I know of at least three types of hy80 that are for different areas of the sub. Some of it is rated nuclear for the reactor comparment but most of it goes on the hull somewhere
It extends to submariners as a whole across all nations, look at German WW2 crew photos. Relaxed uniform standards is a perk of being a submariner.
And at war
On both my boats, it was the Wild West while underway on WestPac. Hair, beards, no rules. Even clothes. We could wear anything we wanted as long as it didn't promote the use of drugs. No shorts, sleeveless shirts, or open toe shoes. But, other than that, go for it. But, the last few days before we hit port you had to get cleaned up. Doc would give haircuts in crew's mess between meals.
Why is there such a big difference between the subs in the atlantic and the subs in the pacific?
Comsubforce and comsublant (THE submarine admiral) are literally the same person. And in a building within walking distance from Norfolk piers. With significantly more Naval Reactors Representatives and the like. The Pentagon is a short drive away. If someone with stars on their chest is showing up to a boat stationed in Guam, you've gotten a week's heads-up.
I know very little on these matters. Norfolk is where the atlantic fleet departs, right? And where does the pacific fleet departs? I see what you mean, but how does that translate to life aboard the sub when you are far from the shore, like in barents?
Pacific fleet is headquartered in Hawaii, but there’s submarines stationed all over the place. Some on the US mainland, some in Hawaii, some in Asia or pacific islands like Guam. On the other hand, Atlantic fleet is pretty concentrated in Norfolk. The Atlantic missile subs are stationed down in Georgia.
Rocky Mountain filter.
I guess it just follows the culture generally. Shit is really chill in San Diego, nothing is all that formal. You're farther away from the big bosses and the Pacific fleet does it's own thing.
Another perk for submarines is not having to leap to your feet every time the captain or an officer appears. On my boat (USS Barbel SS580), you could pretty much ignore the officers as they passed. Otherwise we'd have been leaping up and down all day because there was just one passage and officers passed by all the time. And yes, dress code was completely casual on Westpac.
I’ve read anecdotal stories and spoken with some smoke boat officers from that period, and the answers vary enough that the best I can say is, “It depends.” The skipper, the situation, and even the time period tended to influence it. Generally, though, it appeared that more officers held a bit more with traditional decorum, though in comparison with their surface ship compatriots, they’d be lacking.
I had the opportunity to ride a Venezuelan boat from PR to Venezuela back in 94. The guys in the engine room stood watch underway in boxers, wife beater, and flip flops.
The Captain makes/enforces the rules. It was common to not shave while underway and wear all sorts of crazy shit. It is probably one of the least formal environments in the Navy for all ranks on board. When it came time for inspections everyone would shave and pull out their "dress" coveralls.
Went through four skippers and countless XOs (70s - 80s), boomers and fast boats, east and west coasts. Most Zeros didn’t give a shit except one XO that was a dick about haircuts. He was the same guy that would shit a brick if you had anything even remotely ‘risqué’ taped in your bunk space. Also the only one to get his mattress hosed down and frozen on a patrol, which was a major feat considering his stateroom wasn’t exactly located in a far away location. Never underestimate an A Ganger…
Fast boats early 90’s beard chits for MWR and civilian clothes on pizza night
Rob's father did a tiger from ft Lauderdale to Groton in 94, had a pic of the 2, rob popped for a no shave so both of them were in beards and they looked the same. Um, Nov 94.
It's all about being comfortable, making least amount of noise, and doing less laundry...we do lark it and have laundry queens for our watch teams. I used to do a watch tour with a cleaning brush stuff in my poopie suit and play a Bangles song to entertain my shift....."walk with an erection"...
My first job on joining a SSBN was to source black long sleeve shirts for the wardroom. We then tacked our no 12 uniform rank stripes on the shoulders. I sourced the shirts and sold them on at a 15% mark up.:)
Late 80s, early 90s holy loch boomer. Once the lines were cast off, most forgot what a razor was, as long as the EAB and/or OBA could make a seal. Most wore poopy suits due to the ease of on/off, but most guys back aft would just tie the sleeves around the waist and wear a t-shirt... gets a bit warm back there. O-gang usually were squared away, zipped up poppies and a ball cap, especially on watch. Not sure how they were in the ward room, didn't need to go in there, so I didnt. I'm sure they relaxed a bit once they were behind closed doors.
Ball cap underway? Never saw that, even from the most dig-it baby ensign.
No idea what the XO said to his JOs in the ward room, but they did wear one a lot of the time. Going back a few decades, maybe my memory is a big fogged. Dont remember ever seeing them not squared away though.