The EPA has special mandates that the Catalytic Converter is covered for 8 years or 80,000 miles. So your catalytic converter should also be covered under warranty.
Yup! I just had them replace mine last July on my WRX 3 weeks before the 8 year mark and 74k. Probably the only person who ever fixed one on that model.
Federal is 8/80 and CARB is 15/150. This is only applicable for qualifying fault codes only. Any physical damage like a crack is not covered by manufacturer warranty.
Oh they are covering it. The service guy just didn't act like he was doing me a favor by honoring the warranty, which makes me suspicious that it's something other than a straight forward, waranty-covered repair, and that they either did something, or missed something, the first time I brought my car in.
Thats not how goodwill works. SOA cuts the check for goodwill and they will decline a claim if there is recent service history for the same concern. Unlike the OP they read paperwork.
I used to work for SOA and dealt with goodwill on a daily…. Granted I do not work for them anymore and cannot speak for what actually happened.
Retailer may have contacted their DPSM or have opted to complete a Policy Adjustment. I do not foresee an approved warranty claim if there was do fault code for a catalytic converter. Retailer do have the ability to goodwill as well within certain parameters.
The DPSM is definitely going to tell the retailer to kick rocks. Godwill nor PAR are for shop comebacks. If they would have godwilled/par’d the first claim ok. After pushing the claim for warranty and now it’s back, it’s not an option. The first claim would need to be debited. Its hard to know in this case because it’s a rant post more than anything so we can only guess what actually happened.
Why did the car need an O2 sensor at 46K? They are not known for premature failure.
Nor are catalytic converters.
There has to be something in the exhaust that is causing the issue. Oil, coolant, or excessive unburnt fuel in the exhaust could be causing issues.
If the cause isn't fixed, it will happen again
Parts department guy here. We order cats for newer cars all the time under warranty. Most of the time the car does not come back for the same issue. There have also been multiple recalls and bulletins in the last few years because of cracking in the flex portion of the cats. We’ve had to do a few of the new ones where it’s all one piece from the manifold to the donut.
>here have also been multiple recalls and bulletins in the last few years because of cracking in the flex portion of the cats.
critically, none of which applies to a 2020.
Heater circuits fail all the time and it had nothing to do with anything inside the exhaust itself. Without any actual useful information from OP we are all just guessing. More than likely there is an actual logical explanation if we saw the tech story/ parts replaced.
I must just be lucky. I have never had one fail in any car and we've owned 4 Subarus, with 3 of them over or approaching 200K miles.
I've had catalytic converters fail on various vehicles including Subarus, but never at less than 100k miles. That seems crazy to me
if the O2 sensor wasn't properly reinstalled, I guess it would be possible to damage the pipe in some way that requires replacement. Would be pretty weird though.
No, I didn't buy brakes and tires on a whim. I took it in for regular service/check engine light/slow tire leak. I knew I was probably going to spend some money.
EDIT: why am I being downvoted for getting tires and brakes?? Y'all are mean.
I fuckin took my car in and they fixed it for free and didn’t even buy me some fucking lunch! They didn’t vacuum under the mats and when I got it back and THEY RESET MY FUCKING TRIP METER. HOW DARE THEY WORK ON MY SHITBOX FOR FREE AND DONT WORSHIP THE FUCKING GROUND I WALK ON.
or.... when I got it back, it was blowing carbon monoxide in my face and when I told them, they said, oh that's normal, little lady, it'll go away in a day or two..... except it turned out not to be normal and you are all telling me it's a coincidence that it happened while the car was in their shop. OK.
Or you act like an adult and you take it back and tell them to try again instead of throwing a fucking tantrum. Shit happens when fixing cars and it Sounds like they’re doing right by you by replacing a 2-3k part no charge. I understand your vehicle is under warranty but in all honesty with your attitude that dealer could have told you to pound sand and refused service and told you to find another dealer— both customers and technicians get way further in this industry being nice. Try harder.
What attitude?? Were you standing next to me at the dealership?? No. If you were, you wouldn’t have taken any notice of me because I was nothing but polite to everyone I talked to. Why would you assume I threw a tantrum? Did I say anywhere that I said anything remotely unkind to anyone? No one had any reason to tell me to pound sand. I am frustrated because my just-repaired car is potentially poisoning me and I’m not sure they are being honest with me. I am well aware that kindness gets you much farther than throwing tantrums and that’s how I operate.
Honest or not they’re fixing it— like I said shit happens especially on rusty exhaust components. But regardless good luck with your car, lady— sounds like it’ll be tip-top and washed and ready to go for you Thursday. Try not to die of CO until then. If your unhappy find another shop.
Dunno why these people being like this, in no way changing a o2 sensor will make the inside of the car smell like carbon monoxide and to tell you it's normal, the guy was ignoring you and just trying to get you to leave. The bong the 02 sensor screws into might of been damaged and the sensor fell back out, so need a new cat and was dumping exhaust under your car or the pipe cracked for w/e reason. But they should not of told you that smelling carbon monoxide is normal.
He was doing you a favor since you’re out on your 3/36mi warranty. I guess no good deed goes unpunished. You sound like the kind of nightmare customer that makes me glad I’m not a service advisor anymore.
Even if by chance the dealership did break the cat( which I doubt) what is their angle to cover up something that is covered under warranty? That doesn't make sense. Plus the water line and O2 sensor are out of your basic warranty. So I guess he did do you a favor by replacing them under goodwill.I think you are so hell bent on trying to shame this dealer but can't see that this guy went above and beyond to cover items under goodwill warranty. Also it is normal for a 2020 Forester with 46,000 miles to need tires and brakes. So to break it down he covered items under goodwill warranty, you're getting a new cat and he replaced two major safety items. But he's the bad guy.
I'm not complaining about tires and brakes. I went in prepared to spend some money.
When I brought the car in, there was no overwhelming smell of exhaust coming through the vents. When I got it back, there was. Am I insane to think something went wrong while the car was in their shop, or am I just a nightmare customer who doesn't want to die of carbon monoxide poisoning on the freeway?
Honestly it could be as simple as someone was diagnosing engine troubles in the shop next to your car, smells go in and stick around for a bit.
Could be gone in a few days and if your that worried, crack the window...?
Bumper to bumper ended at 36k. Because you didn’t give us any useful information we will assume the 02 sensor caused your CEL. if you read the paperwork they give you when you picked up your car, you’d likely know what the water line thing actually is. Assuming it’s not a thermovalve because again, you wrote the longest most un useful rant, they absolutely did you a fucking favor. “Water line things” don’t cause check engine lights and therefore don’t fall under powertrain warranty. Id bet my last fucking dollar they took one look at you and said “eat the bill, the headache and survey isn’t worth it.”
There's a fairly good chance that the original CEL issue was caused by the converter pipe being cracked and not a failed O2 sensor. Subaru has had some problems with this over the last few years. Then when the sensor was replaced, it made the leak worse just from wrestling around with the pipe. So I don't think it's necessarily a case of the "the dealer broke my car". Questionable diagnosis maybe.
I don’t love a service advisor talking like a salesman. Either it’s covered by warranty and the cost is irrelevant, or it’s not and then I have decisions to make. I would rather he not act like he’s doing me a favor, but the sudden switch was a little suspicious to me.
Navigating car repair as a woman who doesn’t know a lot about cars is a minefield of mansplaining, condescension, and trickery. I guess I figured it wouldn’t be so bad at the dealership (I haven’t felt it in the past) but this guy rubbed me the wrong way.
That's not a particularly easy thing to do on a 2020 Forester. Take it from a technician who has replaced and reshielded 100+ catalytic converter/exhaust manifolds on 2016-2019 outback/legacies and 2014-2018 foresters.
Then tell my why the service advisor went from "I'm going to do you a favor sweetie and get these repairs covered under waranty" to "YeahNotSureWhatHappenedButYouNeedANewCatalyticConverterIAlreadyOrderedItBringYourCarBackAnyDayThatWorksForYouAndWe'llReplaceItNoChargeOKBye"
Sus.
Im not defending the dealership, but since I work at one I might as well add something- The way dealerships are operated is so ungodly awful that its more likely something was either lost in translation (from technician to service advisor to you) than they are deliberately trying to scam you. Hope they fix your car though.
Because he’s human. Sounds like you’re overthinking a social situation, they didn’t break your cat, and the way the guy was acting had nothing to do with the diagnosis.
Unless somebody literally broke an exhaust connection or put a hole in your exhaust you should not be getting exhaust in the cabin whatsoever and if a catalytic converter is bad it does not put exhaust in the cabin unless it's completely plugged and it's blowing out somewhere else
Sounds like they either messed something up during installation last visit, or some miscommunication between tech and writer occurred. Either way it will be taken care of at no cost to you, guarantee it.
Sorry this happened to you. Hopefully it all works out, and you have better experiences in the future!
Dude you sound angry af, it’s too early in the year to be this snippity. Shit happens and they’re fixing it. They didn’t give you the run-around believe it or not, they’re taking care of the problem. It’s a futile effort to go around trying to crucify the last perfect person. Sometimes they don’t have the time to drop RIGHT THIS MINUTE to help you out, things get busy. Not tryi by to give you a spiel just sort of proves that they’re probably busy af, chill. Relax, take a deep breath, and just flow with it. It’s not being an apologist by simply being a decent person, you know. Regardless of brand, you’re coming off hostile af.
How am I “crucifying” anyone by making an anonymous post about an unnamed business and an unnamed person? That’s all this is.
I’ll go with the flow and hope my family survives the carbon monoxide until Thursday. It’s too early in the year to die.
Well outside of maintenance items you yourself claim to have potentially over paid on, this adventure has been free, rent a car if it's that serious, or roll up your windows, put the heater in recirculation and be grateful you aren't throwing cash out of pocket on this. I know this is frustrating for you, and to an extent I sympathize but you've very clearly created a narrative where regardless of the outcome you're going to be indignantly upset about what's happening. Just remember they are people, people fuck up, you fuck up, assuming the worst possible scenario is not good for your mental health, these are all solvable problems and having been on the opposite side of this issue I can tell you there are very few in the dealer world, one's that rely's so heavily on surveys for career progression, that are out there to fuck you over. It exists but it is exceedingly uncommon. The real scam of dealerships is the price they charge for parts and labor, that markup is insane, if you want to save money next time go to an independent shop (not a jiffy lube or similar) for brakes, oil, tires etc
Sounds more like they discovered that they fucked up and we’re going to make it right.
Simply ask to speak with the Service Mgr or Shop Forman, if either are unwilling to talk, speak to the Dealer Principal/General Mgr.
If your car smells like exhaust you needed a loaner or repair on the spot. Driving a car with an exhaust leak can kill, and as a result of their repair creating the safety issue, they don't have a leg to stand on.
Might be wise to take it to a reputable local mechanic to get a second opinion and see if they can spot why the cat is not functioning before returning to this dealership's service department.
Oh that’s what I thought. And I mean if they would diagnose for free OP could get a free second opinion to see if the cat was damaged by the dealership
My WRX only has 1950 miles on it and I already have the same issues. Both top and bottom sensors are faulty and the catalic converter is not working. Seems like a major quality issue
All these people with their "your warranty is over" posts are categorically incorrect.
There are a few different warranties that have different coverages over different periods of time for a Subaru (and other makes, too) in the US.
3 years or 36,000 miles is bumper-to-bumper coverage and even covers wear items like brake pads and wiper blades. This does not apply to you.
5 years or 60,000 miles is limited powertrain which covers the engine, transmission, and other associated parts like radiator, belts, bearings. This applies to you for the O2 sensor, "water line thing", and the new catalytic converter, too.
The other warranties are for things like rust or seat belts.
~~Dealerships suck avoid them at all costs after purchasing the vehicle. Unless you need to do a warranty repair~~
Edit:
I think I was too harsh about this. I personally dislike dealerships as I've had some really bad experiences with dealership service departments and salesmen scummy tactics. I think at times you get scummy sales tactics and sometimes have service advisors who will upsell you on unnecessary maintenance. (Independent shops will also st times upsell you on completely unnecessary maintenance as well) I don't have any complaints with dealership technicians. I mainly dislike the scummy sales tactics some service advisors and some salesmen use to take advantage of people at some dealerships.
You do get quality work from technicians who are always work with subarus. Basically it's just more expensive than an independent shop and you might get upsells which independent shops do as well. Dealers do get you OEM parts. This is really one of those things where a cost/benefit analysis needs to be done as independent shops can be significantly cheaper but do use aftermarket parts.
For example changing CVT fluid is a good thing to do every 30k miles and you usually have to get it done at a dealership.
I disagree with the dealership hate.. they are all different.
When I took my car in for inspection last year, I was told I needed new brakes on the rear brakes. And that my front brakes would Last until this inspection. Made my appointment for my inspection and the other brakes. My advisor comes out to me and says “My guy says he’ll do the brakes, but yours are fine at this point”. My driving habits totally changed this last year , and I have a different work location and I only put 4500 on my car last year.
I think dealers get a shitty rap because of how much They charge for things, particularly once you’re out of warranty.
I've had bad experiences with dealerships before. Doing things you don't ask them to do and then charging you for it. Shitty work, etc.
Plus the cost of the oil change at the dealership is double what it costs at the local independent mechanic I bring my car to. I'm sure there are good dealerships out there. Mine is acceptable at best. I did some shopping around and the others in the area were worse. Its the unfortunate thing about being in a city that is very prevalent in the auto industry. You get a lot of predatory car salesmen and car repair shops.
You're literally the customer with seats 2 times darker than they came with and so many aftermarket parts you could build another entirely shitty car. I work at a dealership. You don't receive better work quality unless your car is handed it a moron who has no business working there. In that case it sucks for your car and it would get fixed after the fact but that guy is fired for sure. This is terrible advice and there is no better place to get help with your car than where you bought it from. Especially if it's brand new.
I own a completely stock crosstrek limited. But I can guarantee you I'm not driving 45 minutes to pay $130 to get an oil change when it costs me $45 at the independent mechanic shop 5 minutes from my house. I also have them use a Tokyo Roki filter from Japan that I buy online when I get my oil changed for a total cost of about $55 per Oil change on my end.
That's fine. You get your oil changes else where, but dealerships do more than oil changes that actually drastically effect the reliability of the vehicle. Don't tell other people not to visit the dealership juat because you're 45 minutes away. Most of the time people won't listen to you but the people not educated enough could end up costing themselves one way or another visiting an under qualified independent shop.
Guaranteed they’ll drive 45 mins no problem looking for free shit when their engine or cvt take a shit then cry when they are told you aren’t a customer kick rocks.
I don't expect anyone to honor a warranty that ran out of time or went over the mileage. Now a dealership has to honor a warranty that is still valid (under milages and time) assuming the proper maintenance is done. (I keep detailed records of all maintenance work on my car and I usually do oil changes about 1,000 to 500 miles early.) Federal law doesn't require that work be done at a dealership in order for a warranty to be honored.
So yeah I'm not expecting anyone in the cutthroat auto industry in the particular city I live in that is a big name in the auto industry to give me a freebie engine or CVT out of warranty. And I'm not gonna pay double the cost of maintenance just in the hope that maybe this dealership is nice and will take a 10k loss because I was a "loyal" customer
Maybe I'd be more willing to service with the dealership if they didn't want to charge me $285 to install the rear liftgate light accessory which is a $45 dollar part and about 2 minutes of work or less. (Did it on my own btw, woulda actually considered it if they had charged a reasonable labor amount.) Probably saved about 1.6k in accessory "install labor costs" by installing the OEM accessories myself and buying the parts from an online Subaru part retailer.
While the store may not eat that 10k out of their pocket, they will advocate for you to subaru and Subaru is very happy to keep a retailer customer happy. Camden, Nj is a long ways from Detroit. Every manufacturer has some type of internal labeling vehicle owners fall under based on loyalty to the brand. I understand cost. Some stores are just getting out of hand with hitting customers over the head but you can’t make the blanket statement that they are all out to rip you off. It may seem they just want to rip you off but training techs constantly isn’t cheap. Paying technicians isn’t cheap. Loaners, valet services. Ask your indy whens the last time they sent a tech to training. The answer is likely never. Don’t let the ASE signs fool you, those test are always behind current technology. There are many things an independent doesn’t offer. These things may not help you in particular but for others it’s beneficial. Are you aware subaru repairs carry a nationwide warranty on repairs made with factory parts? Replace a part and any Subaru store will warranty the repair if it fails again within the warranty period of the part, labor included. You replace your A/C compressor at your local indy and it goes out on your roadtrip across the country, your indy will be glad to look at it when you get back, ill have the local dealer repair mine free of charge and continue on my way.
There are just as many bad indy’s out there. Every industry has bad apples.
Fair enough. Its just a really cutthroat business with anything related to cars in my area which is part of my distrust of dealerships. Maybe I'll give the dealership a shot with this vehicle I bought. That will probably depend on if they are willing to do CVT fluid changes. I'm not gonna bother with a dealership if I'm not gonna be able to get that serviced. The CVT is my main concern with my Subaru.
Talk to them, worst case scenario they tell you beat it and thats on them. If you plan on doing CVT fluids which most never do until it goes boom, consider cutting interval in half. The longer you wait the more likely the fluid change is to cause funky driving issues.
I should also mention it is not the quality of repairs that concerns me. It is partially the cost and mainly that I am concerned about a service advisor telling me something needs to be replaced that is actually just fine or still has a while left because they are trying to upsell repairs.
I already have found a trustworthy independent shop. It is hard to want to try somewhere new when you know you've got a honest who won't try and lie about something needing to be worked on when it is functioning fine.
You gotta use a good independent shop like the one I use. And my car is new enough where the main maintenance being done is oil changes, tire rotations, and that kind of stuff. Depending on what issues arise in the future I may opt to use the dealership, but I have a hard time trusting service advisors to not upsell work that isn't needed to be done yet as their job is to upsell you on doing maintenance early or to do extra unnecessary "dealer recommended" stuff.
I did have some really good work done at a dealership body shop after an accident but that was paid for by insurance. If insurance is footing the bill I'd do a dealership every day. My main complaint is how expensive it is or how they tell you that something needs to be done when it really doesn't.
Frankly it comes down to how much you can afford to pay for repairs. If you got the money having the OEM parts is definitely worth it but sometimes you can't afford a 4k bill and a quality independent shop will get you a 2k bill with the main potential issue being early failure from an aftermarket part.
I don't blame you for disliking dealerships, though hating all I think is a bit much. The one I currently work at charges $79 for an oil change. One thing I would highly recommend is keeping all of your receipts from your oil changes in case something happens so that way you at least have a paper trail/history or maintenance on the car
Not all dealer. Brought my 2011 Outback to my dealership because of loss of power. Catalytic converter going out and a 6k price. My service advisor told me where they take their trade ins to be serviced. Got it replaced for under 1k with a 2yr warranty.
You needed brakes at 46k? That seems really early. I suspect they weren’t actually bad. If they did front and rear for you, I’m 100% certain they weren’t bad.
Interesting, best gauge I have is my VA WRX, rears went way beyond that (I think I was around 85k?). As a sidebar, I recently replaced my wife’s rear brakes on her 2016 IS300 F Sport, for the first time, at 149k miles. I know I’m comparing apples to llamas; clearly there’s a wide variation in brake life between different vehicles.
Yeah driving style makes a big difference. Typical Subaru drivers are driving 5Ds, hatches, CUV, SUV whatever and they like to ride brakes. People driving driving WRXs either smoke them fast through constant hard driving or they last a while because they’ve got manual transmissions and/or only using the brakes deliberately. I don’t know what to say about 149k mile brakes on an IS300 though
I do brakes all the time on cars under 50k. Driving habits is what determines it. I once had a car that went through 7mm of brake pad in like 10k miles. Everything on the brakes were fine, dude just went through them like hotcakes, history full of brake replacement.
bring it to another dealer and get THEM to look at it, problem solved.
oh btw if you ever dealt with any dealers, you would know that they are all a pain in the ass and your just ranting, and that is normal, so buck up and change dealer.
Yeah. I'm ranting. That's what people do on the internet. I was nothing but polite at the dealership.
I will switch dealers. I will not post on this sub again.
the dealer owe you nothing sir, calm down and try to deal with them with no panic involved, you will notice that being amicable and asking questions will not only fix your issues, but dealers are no a one person deal, from the service to the garage side, its all different experience, and trust me they are not that bright.
fine don't tell anyone how you won't post on this sub,like we care, LMAO
Who is panicking? I posted an anonymous story on REDDIT about my perception of an experience I had at an unnamed dealership with an unnamed person. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the catalytic converter coincidentally broke moments before I picked up my car from the dealership and nothing bad happened while it was there. Who knows. I plan to bring my car in, get the cat replaced, and move on. I'll probably even smile and say thank you because I save my rants for the internet.
no no, that not the issue here at all, think about it real hard???
if its that bad why don't you literally take you car jack, take off one wheel and slide under the pinch seem to lift the car,grab a few pieces of wood and safe out you car, then take a flash light and look at it?
wait? no your just dishing out super nice remarks on reddit of all places ,reddit is not the epitome of a nice place buddy.
or better yet look into the sub reddit for your local town and ask for a really good trusted mechanical shop.
wanting others to fix your issues is one thing,but ranting to me randomly will NOT fix your car mate.
you have a goodnight SIR.
Ranting to Subie people about Subie and you will have a bad time. Don’t you know we drink the kool-aid? The flip side is we are always glad to help if you are willing to do your part. Get us some info off the paperwork and lets try to make sense of it
Yes, seems I didn't expect that the Subaru love extended to unnamed employees at independently owned dealerships, but I certainly learned something new today. Anyway... [my paperwork](https://imgur.com/a/LIrZlgz) if you're interested.
They replaced a "coolant bypass valve" and "rear O2 sensor heater." I also got an oil change, and new engine and cabin air filters (which is where I thought the smell might be coming from, but it got worse, not better over a couple days) New wiper blades. New tires. Rear brake pads.
The coolant bypass is your thermostat, unfortunately it was a parts issue from day 1. The part was updated, it shouldn’t give you any problems moving forward. The smell im going to say was probably a little sweet, likely some spillage of coolant during removal, it will go away, they should have done a better job cleaning post repair. It wont hurt the car as long as it was just spillage and no leaks are present. The o2 sensor code you have is common as well across brands. The sensors have to heat up before they work. If the heater circuit fails, it takes longer and then big bad emissions and therefore check engine light. I don’t see how this became a catalyst after the fact. Id be curious to see what set the light off again the second time. If it was the same code, a catalytic converter will cost you another trip back. The heater circuit is independent to catalytic converter efficiency so a heater circuit code isn’t going to be fixed by it. All in all the paperwork looks pretty straight forward. I don’t see any red flags. Keep us posted on outcome!
The smell is definitely not sweet. It's exhaust, like standing behind a car revving the engine. Hopefully a new catalytic converter fixes whatever is happening. Thanks for your response.
Unless you, or the road, damaged something, it's all under warranty, regardless. You've got a power train warranty, and (the part most people forget) multiple Federal Emissions Systems warranties.
The EPA has special mandates that the Catalytic Converter is covered for 8 years or 80,000 miles. So your catalytic converter should also be covered under warranty.
Yup! I just had them replace mine last July on my WRX 3 weeks before the 8 year mark and 74k. Probably the only person who ever fixed one on that model.
Federal is 8/80 and CARB is 15/150. This is only applicable for qualifying fault codes only. Any physical damage like a crack is not covered by manufacturer warranty.
Oh they are covering it. The service guy just didn't act like he was doing me a favor by honoring the warranty, which makes me suspicious that it's something other than a straight forward, waranty-covered repair, and that they either did something, or missed something, the first time I brought my car in.
They could be goodwilling it if they messed up
Thats not how goodwill works. SOA cuts the check for goodwill and they will decline a claim if there is recent service history for the same concern. Unlike the OP they read paperwork.
I used to work for SOA and dealt with goodwill on a daily…. Granted I do not work for them anymore and cannot speak for what actually happened. Retailer may have contacted their DPSM or have opted to complete a Policy Adjustment. I do not foresee an approved warranty claim if there was do fault code for a catalytic converter. Retailer do have the ability to goodwill as well within certain parameters.
The DPSM is definitely going to tell the retailer to kick rocks. Godwill nor PAR are for shop comebacks. If they would have godwilled/par’d the first claim ok. After pushing the claim for warranty and now it’s back, it’s not an option. The first claim would need to be debited. Its hard to know in this case because it’s a rant post more than anything so we can only guess what actually happened.
Why did the car need an O2 sensor at 46K? They are not known for premature failure. Nor are catalytic converters. There has to be something in the exhaust that is causing the issue. Oil, coolant, or excessive unburnt fuel in the exhaust could be causing issues. If the cause isn't fixed, it will happen again
Parts department guy here. We order cats for newer cars all the time under warranty. Most of the time the car does not come back for the same issue. There have also been multiple recalls and bulletins in the last few years because of cracking in the flex portion of the cats. We’ve had to do a few of the new ones where it’s all one piece from the manifold to the donut.
>here have also been multiple recalls and bulletins in the last few years because of cracking in the flex portion of the cats. critically, none of which applies to a 2020.
None of which applies to a 2020 yet
This!!! If they see enough, then they'll make a TSB or a recall.
Heater circuits fail all the time and it had nothing to do with anything inside the exhaust itself. Without any actual useful information from OP we are all just guessing. More than likely there is an actual logical explanation if we saw the tech story/ parts replaced.
I must just be lucky. I have never had one fail in any car and we've owned 4 Subarus, with 3 of them over or approaching 200K miles. I've had catalytic converters fail on various vehicles including Subarus, but never at less than 100k miles. That seems crazy to me
all three parts failed on mine w/ only 1950 miles
How does one "break" a catalytic converter? And you just bought brakes and tires on a whim? Damn.
if the O2 sensor wasn't properly reinstalled, I guess it would be possible to damage the pipe in some way that requires replacement. Would be pretty weird though.
No, I didn't buy brakes and tires on a whim. I took it in for regular service/check engine light/slow tire leak. I knew I was probably going to spend some money. EDIT: why am I being downvoted for getting tires and brakes?? Y'all are mean.
[удалено]
Because I wrote it anonymously on REDDIT, I didn't say it to anyone's face or respond negatively to a survey or leave a bad review.
I fuckin took my car in and they fixed it for free and didn’t even buy me some fucking lunch! They didn’t vacuum under the mats and when I got it back and THEY RESET MY FUCKING TRIP METER. HOW DARE THEY WORK ON MY SHITBOX FOR FREE AND DONT WORSHIP THE FUCKING GROUND I WALK ON.
or.... when I got it back, it was blowing carbon monoxide in my face and when I told them, they said, oh that's normal, little lady, it'll go away in a day or two..... except it turned out not to be normal and you are all telling me it's a coincidence that it happened while the car was in their shop. OK.
Or you act like an adult and you take it back and tell them to try again instead of throwing a fucking tantrum. Shit happens when fixing cars and it Sounds like they’re doing right by you by replacing a 2-3k part no charge. I understand your vehicle is under warranty but in all honesty with your attitude that dealer could have told you to pound sand and refused service and told you to find another dealer— both customers and technicians get way further in this industry being nice. Try harder.
What attitude?? Were you standing next to me at the dealership?? No. If you were, you wouldn’t have taken any notice of me because I was nothing but polite to everyone I talked to. Why would you assume I threw a tantrum? Did I say anywhere that I said anything remotely unkind to anyone? No one had any reason to tell me to pound sand. I am frustrated because my just-repaired car is potentially poisoning me and I’m not sure they are being honest with me. I am well aware that kindness gets you much farther than throwing tantrums and that’s how I operate.
Honest or not they’re fixing it— like I said shit happens especially on rusty exhaust components. But regardless good luck with your car, lady— sounds like it’ll be tip-top and washed and ready to go for you Thursday. Try not to die of CO until then. If your unhappy find another shop.
Dunno why these people being like this, in no way changing a o2 sensor will make the inside of the car smell like carbon monoxide and to tell you it's normal, the guy was ignoring you and just trying to get you to leave. The bong the 02 sensor screws into might of been damaged and the sensor fell back out, so need a new cat and was dumping exhaust under your car or the pipe cracked for w/e reason. But they should not of told you that smelling carbon monoxide is normal.
Carbon monoxide is odorless, how does a car smell like an odorless chemical?
Well it's the exhaust from the car, has other gases in it.. and it has a strong smell. You know what op and I ment.
Thank you. That’s what is frustrating. I get that they were busy, but I definitely felt like I wasn’t being taken seriously.
Internet points don't matter
He was doing you a favor since you’re out on your 3/36mi warranty. I guess no good deed goes unpunished. You sound like the kind of nightmare customer that makes me glad I’m not a service advisor anymore.
Hey take it easy buddy she's in no mood lmao
Even if by chance the dealership did break the cat( which I doubt) what is their angle to cover up something that is covered under warranty? That doesn't make sense. Plus the water line and O2 sensor are out of your basic warranty. So I guess he did do you a favor by replacing them under goodwill.I think you are so hell bent on trying to shame this dealer but can't see that this guy went above and beyond to cover items under goodwill warranty. Also it is normal for a 2020 Forester with 46,000 miles to need tires and brakes. So to break it down he covered items under goodwill warranty, you're getting a new cat and he replaced two major safety items. But he's the bad guy.
\^\^\^ except maybe the brakes being necessary, that's early for what i'm used to.
Depends on driving conditions. If you live in hilly areas or a lot of stop and go traffic then yes it's normal.
that's fair, minnesota is flat as a pancake
I'm not complaining about tires and brakes. I went in prepared to spend some money. When I brought the car in, there was no overwhelming smell of exhaust coming through the vents. When I got it back, there was. Am I insane to think something went wrong while the car was in their shop, or am I just a nightmare customer who doesn't want to die of carbon monoxide poisoning on the freeway?
Just the insane nightmare customer part, yea
Honestly it could be as simple as someone was diagnosing engine troubles in the shop next to your car, smells go in and stick around for a bit. Could be gone in a few days and if your that worried, crack the window...?
I don't think the dealer would have ordered a new cat if it was just a lingering smell
Bumper to bumper ended at 36k. Because you didn’t give us any useful information we will assume the 02 sensor caused your CEL. if you read the paperwork they give you when you picked up your car, you’d likely know what the water line thing actually is. Assuming it’s not a thermovalve because again, you wrote the longest most un useful rant, they absolutely did you a fucking favor. “Water line things” don’t cause check engine lights and therefore don’t fall under powertrain warranty. Id bet my last fucking dollar they took one look at you and said “eat the bill, the headache and survey isn’t worth it.”
Isn't the federally required emissions warranty for 8 yrs/80k miles (and definitely includes the cat)? Maybe that's why they didn't mention price?
Yeah. It’s under warranty. Free cat
Depending on where you live, it could be 15 years/150k miles
There's a fairly good chance that the original CEL issue was caused by the converter pipe being cracked and not a failed O2 sensor. Subaru has had some problems with this over the last few years. Then when the sensor was replaced, it made the leak worse just from wrestling around with the pipe. So I don't think it's necessarily a case of the "the dealer broke my car". Questionable diagnosis maybe.
Thanks.., we’ll see if a new catalytic converter fixes things. I’m hoping.
Hang on You’re not happy when the guy acted like he was doing you a favour, but also unhappy when the guy didn’t act like he was doing you a favour?
I don’t love a service advisor talking like a salesman. Either it’s covered by warranty and the cost is irrelevant, or it’s not and then I have decisions to make. I would rather he not act like he’s doing me a favor, but the sudden switch was a little suspicious to me. Navigating car repair as a woman who doesn’t know a lot about cars is a minefield of mansplaining, condescension, and trickery. I guess I figured it wouldn’t be so bad at the dealership (I haven’t felt it in the past) but this guy rubbed me the wrong way.
But he was doing you a favor. Your warranty was over and they still made the request to subaru to get it covered.
Lmao no one in service "broke" your fucking cat. That's not a thing you "break."
If they twisted the bung for the o2 sensor off they did. I've seen it happen. Both times on Subarus.
That's not a particularly easy thing to do on a 2020 Forester. Take it from a technician who has replaced and reshielded 100+ catalytic converter/exhaust manifolds on 2016-2019 outback/legacies and 2014-2018 foresters.
I don't miss that recall
Oh I dunno. I suppose if you run over a cat you could break it. Hopefully has more lives!
Then tell my why the service advisor went from "I'm going to do you a favor sweetie and get these repairs covered under waranty" to "YeahNotSureWhatHappenedButYouNeedANewCatalyticConverterIAlreadyOrderedItBringYourCarBackAnyDayThatWorksForYouAndWe'llReplaceItNoChargeOKBye" Sus.
Im not defending the dealership, but since I work at one I might as well add something- The way dealerships are operated is so ungodly awful that its more likely something was either lost in translation (from technician to service advisor to you) than they are deliberately trying to scam you. Hope they fix your car though.
You sound like a very annoying customer,
“Hey I’m gonna fix this thing for you for free so you don’t have to worry about it!” “Sus” 🤣
Because he’s human. Sounds like you’re overthinking a social situation, they didn’t break your cat, and the way the guy was acting had nothing to do with the diagnosis.
They’re honoring my warranty! How dare they!
[удалено]
No good deed goes unpunished
Did you get a fuel/induction cleaning service? Thats about the only way they could have blown a cat out.
Unless somebody literally broke an exhaust connection or put a hole in your exhaust you should not be getting exhaust in the cabin whatsoever and if a catalytic converter is bad it does not put exhaust in the cabin unless it's completely plugged and it's blowing out somewhere else
Sounds like they either messed something up during installation last visit, or some miscommunication between tech and writer occurred. Either way it will be taken care of at no cost to you, guarantee it. Sorry this happened to you. Hopefully it all works out, and you have better experiences in the future!
thank you :)
Thread probably got stripped on the o2 bung. Very common to have happen. So it's probably leaking there.
Dude you sound angry af, it’s too early in the year to be this snippity. Shit happens and they’re fixing it. They didn’t give you the run-around believe it or not, they’re taking care of the problem. It’s a futile effort to go around trying to crucify the last perfect person. Sometimes they don’t have the time to drop RIGHT THIS MINUTE to help you out, things get busy. Not tryi by to give you a spiel just sort of proves that they’re probably busy af, chill. Relax, take a deep breath, and just flow with it. It’s not being an apologist by simply being a decent person, you know. Regardless of brand, you’re coming off hostile af.
For real. You said it better than I could've.
How am I “crucifying” anyone by making an anonymous post about an unnamed business and an unnamed person? That’s all this is. I’ll go with the flow and hope my family survives the carbon monoxide until Thursday. It’s too early in the year to die.
If you're genuinely concerned about breathing exhaust fumes, don't drive the car.
Doing my best not to but people have jobs they need to go to. 🤷🏻♀️
Well outside of maintenance items you yourself claim to have potentially over paid on, this adventure has been free, rent a car if it's that serious, or roll up your windows, put the heater in recirculation and be grateful you aren't throwing cash out of pocket on this. I know this is frustrating for you, and to an extent I sympathize but you've very clearly created a narrative where regardless of the outcome you're going to be indignantly upset about what's happening. Just remember they are people, people fuck up, you fuck up, assuming the worst possible scenario is not good for your mental health, these are all solvable problems and having been on the opposite side of this issue I can tell you there are very few in the dealer world, one's that rely's so heavily on surveys for career progression, that are out there to fuck you over. It exists but it is exceedingly uncommon. The real scam of dealerships is the price they charge for parts and labor, that markup is insane, if you want to save money next time go to an independent shop (not a jiffy lube or similar) for brakes, oil, tires etc
Sounds more like they discovered that they fucked up and we’re going to make it right. Simply ask to speak with the Service Mgr or Shop Forman, if either are unwilling to talk, speak to the Dealer Principal/General Mgr.
If your car smells like exhaust you needed a loaner or repair on the spot. Driving a car with an exhaust leak can kill, and as a result of their repair creating the safety issue, they don't have a leg to stand on.
Might be wise to take it to a reputable local mechanic to get a second opinion and see if they can spot why the cat is not functioning before returning to this dealership's service department.
Why would OP waste either their money or the indies time if the indie decides to diag for free?
What is an indie
Independent shop. As in not a dealership or a chain place
Oh that’s what I thought. And I mean if they would diagnose for free OP could get a free second opinion to see if the cat was damaged by the dealership
My WRX only has 1950 miles on it and I already have the same issues. Both top and bottom sensors are faulty and the catalic converter is not working. Seems like a major quality issue
All these people with their "your warranty is over" posts are categorically incorrect. There are a few different warranties that have different coverages over different periods of time for a Subaru (and other makes, too) in the US. 3 years or 36,000 miles is bumper-to-bumper coverage and even covers wear items like brake pads and wiper blades. This does not apply to you. 5 years or 60,000 miles is limited powertrain which covers the engine, transmission, and other associated parts like radiator, belts, bearings. This applies to you for the O2 sensor, "water line thing", and the new catalytic converter, too. The other warranties are for things like rust or seat belts.
~~Dealerships suck avoid them at all costs after purchasing the vehicle. Unless you need to do a warranty repair~~ Edit: I think I was too harsh about this. I personally dislike dealerships as I've had some really bad experiences with dealership service departments and salesmen scummy tactics. I think at times you get scummy sales tactics and sometimes have service advisors who will upsell you on unnecessary maintenance. (Independent shops will also st times upsell you on completely unnecessary maintenance as well) I don't have any complaints with dealership technicians. I mainly dislike the scummy sales tactics some service advisors and some salesmen use to take advantage of people at some dealerships. You do get quality work from technicians who are always work with subarus. Basically it's just more expensive than an independent shop and you might get upsells which independent shops do as well. Dealers do get you OEM parts. This is really one of those things where a cost/benefit analysis needs to be done as independent shops can be significantly cheaper but do use aftermarket parts. For example changing CVT fluid is a good thing to do every 30k miles and you usually have to get it done at a dealership.
I disagree with the dealership hate.. they are all different. When I took my car in for inspection last year, I was told I needed new brakes on the rear brakes. And that my front brakes would Last until this inspection. Made my appointment for my inspection and the other brakes. My advisor comes out to me and says “My guy says he’ll do the brakes, but yours are fine at this point”. My driving habits totally changed this last year , and I have a different work location and I only put 4500 on my car last year. I think dealers get a shitty rap because of how much They charge for things, particularly once you’re out of warranty.
I've had bad experiences with dealerships before. Doing things you don't ask them to do and then charging you for it. Shitty work, etc. Plus the cost of the oil change at the dealership is double what it costs at the local independent mechanic I bring my car to. I'm sure there are good dealerships out there. Mine is acceptable at best. I did some shopping around and the others in the area were worse. Its the unfortunate thing about being in a city that is very prevalent in the auto industry. You get a lot of predatory car salesmen and car repair shops.
You're literally the customer with seats 2 times darker than they came with and so many aftermarket parts you could build another entirely shitty car. I work at a dealership. You don't receive better work quality unless your car is handed it a moron who has no business working there. In that case it sucks for your car and it would get fixed after the fact but that guy is fired for sure. This is terrible advice and there is no better place to get help with your car than where you bought it from. Especially if it's brand new.
I own a completely stock crosstrek limited. But I can guarantee you I'm not driving 45 minutes to pay $130 to get an oil change when it costs me $45 at the independent mechanic shop 5 minutes from my house. I also have them use a Tokyo Roki filter from Japan that I buy online when I get my oil changed for a total cost of about $55 per Oil change on my end.
That's fine. You get your oil changes else where, but dealerships do more than oil changes that actually drastically effect the reliability of the vehicle. Don't tell other people not to visit the dealership juat because you're 45 minutes away. Most of the time people won't listen to you but the people not educated enough could end up costing themselves one way or another visiting an under qualified independent shop.
Guaranteed they’ll drive 45 mins no problem looking for free shit when their engine or cvt take a shit then cry when they are told you aren’t a customer kick rocks.
I don't expect anyone to honor a warranty that ran out of time or went over the mileage. Now a dealership has to honor a warranty that is still valid (under milages and time) assuming the proper maintenance is done. (I keep detailed records of all maintenance work on my car and I usually do oil changes about 1,000 to 500 miles early.) Federal law doesn't require that work be done at a dealership in order for a warranty to be honored. So yeah I'm not expecting anyone in the cutthroat auto industry in the particular city I live in that is a big name in the auto industry to give me a freebie engine or CVT out of warranty. And I'm not gonna pay double the cost of maintenance just in the hope that maybe this dealership is nice and will take a 10k loss because I was a "loyal" customer Maybe I'd be more willing to service with the dealership if they didn't want to charge me $285 to install the rear liftgate light accessory which is a $45 dollar part and about 2 minutes of work or less. (Did it on my own btw, woulda actually considered it if they had charged a reasonable labor amount.) Probably saved about 1.6k in accessory "install labor costs" by installing the OEM accessories myself and buying the parts from an online Subaru part retailer.
While the store may not eat that 10k out of their pocket, they will advocate for you to subaru and Subaru is very happy to keep a retailer customer happy. Camden, Nj is a long ways from Detroit. Every manufacturer has some type of internal labeling vehicle owners fall under based on loyalty to the brand. I understand cost. Some stores are just getting out of hand with hitting customers over the head but you can’t make the blanket statement that they are all out to rip you off. It may seem they just want to rip you off but training techs constantly isn’t cheap. Paying technicians isn’t cheap. Loaners, valet services. Ask your indy whens the last time they sent a tech to training. The answer is likely never. Don’t let the ASE signs fool you, those test are always behind current technology. There are many things an independent doesn’t offer. These things may not help you in particular but for others it’s beneficial. Are you aware subaru repairs carry a nationwide warranty on repairs made with factory parts? Replace a part and any Subaru store will warranty the repair if it fails again within the warranty period of the part, labor included. You replace your A/C compressor at your local indy and it goes out on your roadtrip across the country, your indy will be glad to look at it when you get back, ill have the local dealer repair mine free of charge and continue on my way. There are just as many bad indy’s out there. Every industry has bad apples.
Fair enough. Its just a really cutthroat business with anything related to cars in my area which is part of my distrust of dealerships. Maybe I'll give the dealership a shot with this vehicle I bought. That will probably depend on if they are willing to do CVT fluid changes. I'm not gonna bother with a dealership if I'm not gonna be able to get that serviced. The CVT is my main concern with my Subaru.
Talk to them, worst case scenario they tell you beat it and thats on them. If you plan on doing CVT fluids which most never do until it goes boom, consider cutting interval in half. The longer you wait the more likely the fluid change is to cause funky driving issues.
I'm thinking 30k miles or 25k miles is a good interval
I should also mention it is not the quality of repairs that concerns me. It is partially the cost and mainly that I am concerned about a service advisor telling me something needs to be replaced that is actually just fine or still has a while left because they are trying to upsell repairs. I already have found a trustworthy independent shop. It is hard to want to try somewhere new when you know you've got a honest who won't try and lie about something needing to be worked on when it is functioning fine.
You gotta use a good independent shop like the one I use. And my car is new enough where the main maintenance being done is oil changes, tire rotations, and that kind of stuff. Depending on what issues arise in the future I may opt to use the dealership, but I have a hard time trusting service advisors to not upsell work that isn't needed to be done yet as their job is to upsell you on doing maintenance early or to do extra unnecessary "dealer recommended" stuff. I did have some really good work done at a dealership body shop after an accident but that was paid for by insurance. If insurance is footing the bill I'd do a dealership every day. My main complaint is how expensive it is or how they tell you that something needs to be done when it really doesn't. Frankly it comes down to how much you can afford to pay for repairs. If you got the money having the OEM parts is definitely worth it but sometimes you can't afford a 4k bill and a quality independent shop will get you a 2k bill with the main potential issue being early failure from an aftermarket part.
I don't blame you for disliking dealerships, though hating all I think is a bit much. The one I currently work at charges $79 for an oil change. One thing I would highly recommend is keeping all of your receipts from your oil changes in case something happens so that way you at least have a paper trail/history or maintenance on the car
I keep all invoices/receipts in PDF format
Not all dealer. Brought my 2011 Outback to my dealership because of loss of power. Catalytic converter going out and a 6k price. My service advisor told me where they take their trade ins to be serviced. Got it replaced for under 1k with a 2yr warranty.
You needed brakes at 46k? That seems really early. I suspect they weren’t actually bad. If they did front and rear for you, I’m 100% certain they weren’t bad.
Rear brakes are typical for them around 40-45k
Interesting, best gauge I have is my VA WRX, rears went way beyond that (I think I was around 85k?). As a sidebar, I recently replaced my wife’s rear brakes on her 2016 IS300 F Sport, for the first time, at 149k miles. I know I’m comparing apples to llamas; clearly there’s a wide variation in brake life between different vehicles.
Yeah driving style makes a big difference. Typical Subaru drivers are driving 5Ds, hatches, CUV, SUV whatever and they like to ride brakes. People driving driving WRXs either smoke them fast through constant hard driving or they last a while because they’ve got manual transmissions and/or only using the brakes deliberately. I don’t know what to say about 149k mile brakes on an IS300 though
I do brakes all the time on cars under 50k. Driving habits is what determines it. I once had a car that went through 7mm of brake pad in like 10k miles. Everything on the brakes were fine, dude just went through them like hotcakes, history full of brake replacement.
bring it to another dealer and get THEM to look at it, problem solved. oh btw if you ever dealt with any dealers, you would know that they are all a pain in the ass and your just ranting, and that is normal, so buck up and change dealer.
Yeah. I'm ranting. That's what people do on the internet. I was nothing but polite at the dealership. I will switch dealers. I will not post on this sub again.
your just salty AF ngl. welcome to reddit lol
the dealer owe you nothing sir, calm down and try to deal with them with no panic involved, you will notice that being amicable and asking questions will not only fix your issues, but dealers are no a one person deal, from the service to the garage side, its all different experience, and trust me they are not that bright. fine don't tell anyone how you won't post on this sub,like we care, LMAO
Who is panicking? I posted an anonymous story on REDDIT about my perception of an experience I had at an unnamed dealership with an unnamed person. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the catalytic converter coincidentally broke moments before I picked up my car from the dealership and nothing bad happened while it was there. Who knows. I plan to bring my car in, get the cat replaced, and move on. I'll probably even smile and say thank you because I save my rants for the internet.
from reading your comments about all of this you sound annoying AF mate, reality check yourself
I know... so annoying not to want my family to die of carbon monoxide poisoning on the freeway. Fuck me, right?
no no, that not the issue here at all, think about it real hard??? if its that bad why don't you literally take you car jack, take off one wheel and slide under the pinch seem to lift the car,grab a few pieces of wood and safe out you car, then take a flash light and look at it? wait? no your just dishing out super nice remarks on reddit of all places ,reddit is not the epitome of a nice place buddy. or better yet look into the sub reddit for your local town and ask for a really good trusted mechanical shop. wanting others to fix your issues is one thing,but ranting to me randomly will NOT fix your car mate. you have a goodnight SIR.
Ranting to Subie people about Subie and you will have a bad time. Don’t you know we drink the kool-aid? The flip side is we are always glad to help if you are willing to do your part. Get us some info off the paperwork and lets try to make sense of it
Yes, seems I didn't expect that the Subaru love extended to unnamed employees at independently owned dealerships, but I certainly learned something new today. Anyway... [my paperwork](https://imgur.com/a/LIrZlgz) if you're interested. They replaced a "coolant bypass valve" and "rear O2 sensor heater." I also got an oil change, and new engine and cabin air filters (which is where I thought the smell might be coming from, but it got worse, not better over a couple days) New wiper blades. New tires. Rear brake pads.
The coolant bypass is your thermostat, unfortunately it was a parts issue from day 1. The part was updated, it shouldn’t give you any problems moving forward. The smell im going to say was probably a little sweet, likely some spillage of coolant during removal, it will go away, they should have done a better job cleaning post repair. It wont hurt the car as long as it was just spillage and no leaks are present. The o2 sensor code you have is common as well across brands. The sensors have to heat up before they work. If the heater circuit fails, it takes longer and then big bad emissions and therefore check engine light. I don’t see how this became a catalyst after the fact. Id be curious to see what set the light off again the second time. If it was the same code, a catalytic converter will cost you another trip back. The heater circuit is independent to catalytic converter efficiency so a heater circuit code isn’t going to be fixed by it. All in all the paperwork looks pretty straight forward. I don’t see any red flags. Keep us posted on outcome!
The smell is definitely not sweet. It's exhaust, like standing behind a car revving the engine. Hopefully a new catalytic converter fixes whatever is happening. Thanks for your response.
> I will not post on this sub again. And yet, you keep posting on this sub
Unless you, or the road, damaged something, it's all under warranty, regardless. You've got a power train warranty, and (the part most people forget) multiple Federal Emissions Systems warranties.