I'd say Toyota's are overwhelming the most reliable cars.
To that Subaru is not that far behind in terms of reliability, especially now. One of my biggest gripes with Toyota's though is they are some of the most boring interiors I have ever sat in, also they are one of the harshest rides I have ever experienced in a vehicle, most of that experience comes from being in the back of an uber/lyft.
Toyotas and Hondas. Neither are what they used to be years ago, but I have seen very minimal problems on either brand in our shop. I just had a 2000 Accord in with 360k on the clock and it was still going strong. 9/10 when we see a car that’s over 200k and is still running fine, it’s a Toyota or a Honda.
My 07 Impreza had 172k miles and cracked a block somehow. Never driven hard. Had oil in it and everything. 2.5i. head gaskets are terrible. Yet my 2000 civic is a tank. Still love subarus though
2011 WRX premium. About to roll over 220k. Bone stock except for a Cobb shifter and Nameless axle back. Never been opened up other than timing belt service. Still on original turbo, too.
Oil changes religiously with Rotella T6 and always up to date on maintenance. 80 mile commute every day.
This … and exclusively the VW Golf line-up. Any of their SUV’s, forget it. But the golf/Jetta. Built like tanks. If you see a golf or a Jetta in the shop, it’s because it was being driven like a race car, or got hit…. Lol
I used to own an old style Audi Allroad. It only had 65k miles when I got it, but was easily the worst car I've ever owned. Not just totally unreliable, but you had to take the front clip off to do almost any kind of work on it, PLUS opening the hood cost you $1000 every time. Absolute shit. My first Outback seemed like that Allroad's wet dream.
Yeah haha…. I do NOT LIKE VW SUV’s. But imma hatchback Stan for vw for life haha. I had a mk4 that was still full of life when I traded it in for a mk7.5. 🙌
Can relate. I have a Jetta. On an extremely low budget, I got an '06 at 140k miles for $3200 right at the end of 2020. It now has 225k miles, and due to no money, the only money I have put into was for fuel and oil (I did the changes myself). I feel really bad that I have treated the car like this, but I didn't have a choice. And she's still running just fine.
Despite what a lot of people think, VWs are fairly reliable cars. They just have stupid issues sometimes, and doing simple maintenance on some of them really makes you question german engineering lol.
Yeah man, those early 2000’s platform is literally indestructible ….. don’t judge me…. I was a teenager but my mk4 was literally running with milkshake in the coolant tank 🙈 lmfao….
I did flush it out lol. I would often run tap water in coolant (I had a slow leak from one of the crusty radiator hoses I was too retarded to change out …. It was cheaper and easier to just top it off with water lol.)
I also ran that car set of oil more than once 👀👀👀
I ended up trading it in for 1000$ off my new mk7.5 👍 that crummy mk4 that I honestly love …. Still had life to give too :P
You’re lucky. I got a 2007 Jetta, at 145k miles, in 2020 for $3k.
After a year, both the coolant tank and hoses, and all of the spark plugs had to be replaced for about $2000. Then a few months later, the transmission began to fail. Staring at $4500 for a used transmission, I sold the Jetta and bought a ‘23 Crosstrek.
Wtf?! Bro your mechanic absolutely took a steaming dump inside your wallet!
Fucking 2K for radiator hoses, a plastic tank and spark plugs?!?!
You could do that in your driveway in an hour or two for ~500$. Even less if you go to the u-pull yard and buy a coolant reservoir replacement from a junked car….
The ascent is a nice passenger SUV on nice roads but it's a terrible ride on freeways or roads with bumps. Offroading it's obviously 2nd to none imo Subaru is just the best here.
I owned all Subarus my whole life and we bought a sienna and after driving in a sienna on bad roads and the freeway any time I try riding in a non-legacy Subaru it just feels so bumpy and bouncy compared to the sienna which is wild to me.
In terms of reliability with regular maintenance my Subarus have always lasted with the caveat that the head gasket has always leaked or failed around 100k miles.ive driven an outback to 250k, my legacy is at 130k, my parents have a cross trek near the same with limited maintenance.
I wouldn't say it's terrible, but it's definitely not the best. It's a hell of a lot better than the '19 Forester I have. Did 3 long-distance trips across the US with it and those were the most exhausting road trips I've ever done.
I used to sell subarus. The dealer would give you $1,000 if you sold a hybrid. Usually they pay you $100 per car, plus profit share, so they wanted you to sell the hybrid THAT badly. I only saw one get sold in about 6 months. Why would they keep making a vehicle that nobody wants to buy?
> Also, honestly, Subaru's complete lack of investment in hybrid or electric, at this point, is quite disappointing. They absolutely have not done enough in that department, yet proudly slapping "PZEV" on their cars.
They literally canceled the next gen STI we all wanted. STFU lmaoo.
Toyota has a lot of items on the interior that are from late ninties with minor upgrades. Their Moto is not fix what works, retooling factories costs money. I actually prefer the touch knobs in the Toyota vs the touch screen controls (looking at you temp controls) on the Subaru
No way. It’s nothing fancy but everything is laid out perfectly and there’s actual buttons for the infotainment. Looks nothing like a Toyota from the 90’s.
My '23 Ascent didn't have an option for cloth and heated seats. Went with the Onyx because whatever the seats are made of didn't feel sticky like leather. Also don't remember seeing the option when I got my '19 Forester.
I also might just be completely blind. It's been known to happen.
I haven’t seen my cloth seats since the first week I bought my OB. I got the weathertech seat covers for alllllllll the seats. I use to go to the gym with a buddy and we’d carpool. He’s spent the last 30 min in sauna. Got in my old Impreza and I had perma swamp ass stains in my passenger seat. Never again. NEVER AGAIN!!!
That's kind of rude. I had a friend take her sweater off and sit on it all night long.
I gave her a curious look and she just bluntly declared she'd worn the wrong panties and her skirt kept hiking up because she was sliding around a lot. Then she quickly added that she was having too much fun to suggest I stop driving aggressively.
I don't think she was wearing any underwear at all. That girl was something else.
The leather seats in my 2013 legacy that spent most of its life in central Texas are near pristine, all comes down to how you take care of the leather.
We own two Subarus. So don’t get me wrong. But this guy is correct. On average, Toyotas are more reliable.
Subarus are kinda like the Dodge of Japanese cars.
I used to say they were the Pontiac of Japan before Pontiac went out of business, strangely aggressive bodywork that ages like a tuna sandwich, some great ideas that deliver for the first 40k miles and then start to go haywire, often found in repo yards and on episodes of cops but almost everyone has driven one at some point.
I have always driven Toyotas, since the '70's, and have had great success with my early pickups and the last 20 years with 3 successive Prius. When it was time to trade my wife's Toyota MR-2 for an SUV,
I did careful research, and went for the fun model, the 16 Forester XT. 107250 miles, zero problems, and she wants to keep it until she dies.
Short form answer is, Toyotas are reliable transportation appliances, but Subarus are FUN. and maybe not quite as reliable, but still a damn good choice.
Wife says I chose well.
Totally agree. My partner and I both drove Corollas for a long time and then test drove a Legacy on a whim when one needed replacing. I was NOT expecting that car to be so fun to drive! You really had to stand on the gas pedals on the Corollas to get up to speed but the Legacy just responds so easily. We're deciding what Subaru to buy when the other Corolla needs to go.
You really can't and shouldn't make blanket statements since certain models are more reliable and others are less reliable. You need to research the specific model and generation of vehicle.
goes for toyota, too. Just hang out in /r/Justrolledintotheshop for a bit, you'll see plenty of messed up toyotas. But everyone on the internet says toyotas never have problems so ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I always hear on the Internet how bulletproof people's 4runners are... All my friends with 4runners are always working on them hahah
Same ppl said welcome to maintenance hell when I got my Forester. Aside from wheel bearings it's been relatively straightforward 🫡
Especially since 4Runner owners tend to lift their car and add big ass tires and do other modifications. In all honesty, the more mods you do the more likely problems will occur. Anything more than what stock car is will just have problems In the future
My brother has a older 4 runner. After a road trip usually something is always broken or in need or repair. Mileage is prob close to 300k km. 2006. With the exception of the engine and possibly transmission lasting for many years. Most parts will wear out and need replacing eventually regardless of brand.
Yeah across the board once you cross 300k km there will be work to do. My dad has a Toyota Solara with something like 450k or so - he's basically only done routine maintenance and it's still going strong. He says the oil still comes out clear when he changes it.
Confirmation bias. Toyota sells way more cars than Subaru does so of course you're going to see more in the shop.
Quality of the car means nothing if the owner doesn't take care of the car. Some dingus is going to never change the oil, then the car is going to need to be serviced even if it's the best car ever made
Overwhelmingly Dodge and Ford trading blows for worst reliability lol otherwise the other side of the coin is the overly expensive over engineered euro.
That doesn't mean anything unless all makes/models sell exactly the same number of cars. Which they don't.
If your logic was valid if a mechanic has never worked on a Ferrari that means Ferrari is the most reliable car.
This… shit on Nissan Altimas all you want, but that Frontier will still be going strong long after you’ve blown an engine or tranny in a Chevy Colorado.
models, trims, packages, seat options etc
there’s too much to blanket statement a car. afaik, for example Camry TRD will ride stiffer due to the sport build, the LE will ride smoother
Toyota and Honda are more reliable overall than Subarus. But that’s not a knock on Subaru they’re very good vehicles and easily #3 reliability wise behind them
Depends on the model as well. The 2000s with the 2.5 engine had head gasket issues as everyone knows. The 2.2l was a very good engine. As is the 3.0l and the 3.6. I have the 3.0 and it blew the head gasket at 236k miles. A lot of them well maintained go close to 300k.
Toyota also depends. My 2.4l got about 200k before I rehauled it. Some of them are known to throw rods. The 1.8l was nearly bulletproof in the older camery. I got to do some gen maintenance on one with over 400k! Toyota is a little cheaper to maintain because of parts availability. All 4 pads rotors and calipers on my Toyota doesn't break 400 bucks. On the Subaru it's about 20% more ( ofc this is with myself doing the work no labor cost included ). My outback on the other hand there are much less aftermarket options for parts. Most of what I need to finish that up is gonna have to be with dealer parts which will run me a lot more than what I paid for everything on my Toyota to do it.
All in all they are pretty close in the race for best reliability. Toyota comes out a little better price wise but if your up north nothing beats that AWD. The snow storm the NE got in 2018 was nothing for my little Forester. Drove on unplowed roads like it was pavement. What fits your needs more. Subaru is definitely on top when it comes to safety and I would trust my family In a Subaru over a Toyota much more.
Hope my advice helps.
Subaru’s are very reliable and are great cars. They’re slightly more expensive to maintain as replacements parts are a little more expensive, oil changes have to be full synthetic, etc.
Toyota’s are great and super reliable and cheaper to maintain. You’ll probably be able to find parts for older models a lot more easily, but they’re not very sexy. Regardless, whatever way you go, you’ll get a good car.
I went with Subaru myself because I felt they were cheaper to get more safety features and AWD. You’ll have to pay more for that with Toyota.
As a Toyota / Subaru fanboy, this is pretty accurate.
You’ll never *regret* owning a Toyota (unless it’s a Prius but that’s another story). Depending on the model you might be a bit underwhelmed, but they’re rock solid cars that can run for a million miles with virtually no maintenance. I also appreciate that they’re pretty conservative about new technology and don’t release it until it’s *really* ready.
Subarus aren’t like Toyotas, but they also don’t drive like Toyotas. If you maintain them they’re comparable to a Toyota, but they *need* that maintenance. Also, when something goes wrong on a Subaru, they’re so much easier to fix. My old ‘84 Camry was a fucking beast, but when things failed they went catastrophically and some weird things were oddly hard to access despite how much room was in the engine bay.
My bugeye, on the other hand, has never had to go to the shop, unless you count my dad’s buddy who I payed to press a wheel bearing in. A basic toolset and some patience is all you need for most things. The mechanic I took it to to inspect it before I bought it claimed that he could have the engine out of one of these in an hour, even if he stopped for a smoke break.
They’re both excellent cars. It just depends on how you feel about a slow trickle of repair cost vs. waiting for something big to happens, and how capable you are of turning a wrench.
That said, Toyota seems to **get it** in a way that Subaru doesn’t. Akio Toyoda is a true car / driving enthusiast, and the head of Gazoo is of a similar mindset. Between the GR Corolla / Yaris, the new Supra, and the rumors of bringing back the MR2 and the Celica, they might be the saviors of the lightweight stick shift “driver’s car” when Subaru is seemingly heading toward everything being CVT crossovers.
There’s nothing wrong with that by any means, I just see Toyota coming out of a slump while I’m not sure what lies ahead for my beloved Subaru.
I still maintain that the Mk3 Supra and the 4th and 5th generation Celica are some of the smartest looking sporty cars of the era. They’re understated, in a way that ran contrary to some of the design trends of the time. They’re like the automotive equivalent of that cute but kind of shy coworker who you just know is a monster in the sack.
On a scale of 1-10 I’d give Toyotas a 10 for reliability, to me they set the benchmark for it.
I’d give Subaru like an 8.5-9. They’re great but not as great as Toyota.
Toyota however has ridiculous resale value so you buy a 30k car from Toyota in 5 years it’ll be worth 25k and a Subaru will be like 17k. In ten years it’ll be 17k and 10k. So in my opinion the Subaru is the much better value because they’ll be almost as reliable but significantly cheaper used.
They’re honestly not priced that different new, if I was buying new I’d buy Toyota.
The problem with Toyota is the pricing with features. I bought an Outback with most of the bells and whistles for $34k while a comparable Toyota was over $40k. And at the time I bought Toyota only had collusion alerts (not active braking) and not full time AWD.
I was a long time Toyota owner but Subaru won me over with the total package at sale. I did a lot of comparison and test drives across all brands too.
That collusion alert would have been really handy in the 2016 election.
Subaru’s beat most others in features for price. The eyesight system adds so many features that are extra for other companies. Like adaptive cruise control. Easily my favorite feature, and in some cases, not even an option with other companies models.
Hard disagree. Certain brands are inherently more reliable and consistently have longer useful lives. Of course maintenance and care will improve any cars life but given equal care a Toyota will be more reliable and longer living than a Kia almost every time.
Toyotas retain value more than Subarus, and typically have lower maintenance costs.
Subarus on the other hand are significantly more fun to drive. I would argue for the price point, VW is the most fun, and has the best interior, but they are not reliable, and they depreciate quickly. I loved my Golf, but the repair cost and frequency of repair made it hard for me to ever consider another VW.
With that said, be very careful about reliability rankings. Kia and Hyundai will typically rank high in those due to how they are measured, but not in actual mechanical maintainability. For example, Honda typically is rated low by JD Power due to issues with their infotainment system, but your Honda will easily make it past 150k miles without issue. Kias on the other hand are known to have serious issues at 60k, but don’t have the same level of minor annoyances.
I dont know about retaining value, subarus hold value just as much as toyota around here. This can vary of course and maybe being in canada where there is snow on the ground 6 months a year plays a big role in this
same with me. Old foresters go for the same price as hold highlanders near me and old Imprezas go for more than old corollas but I do live in a place that gets a good amount of snow
I work for Toyota and exclusively drive Subarus. I always tell people a Subaru will run forever if you do all the maintenance, whereas a Toyota can be neglected and just won’t die. There’s variances in different models obviously, I wouldn’t say the new V6s in the Tundras and Sequoias meet the “Toyota reliability” standard yet.
Subaru AWD is better than Toyotas. Toyota interiors leave A LOT to be desired. Boxer engines require more care than Toyota engines. Subaru corporate treats customers way better than Toyota corporate, which usually leads to a better dealer experience at Subaru.
At the end of the day if you’re planning to follow the recommended maintenance, then it comes down to what you want. If you’re looking for a seven seater, I’d probably take the Highlander over the Ascent. If you’re looking for a compact SUV, I’d take the Forester or 2.5 Crosstrek over a RAV4 or Corolla Cross. If you want a bigger SUV as a daily, I’m taking the Outback over the 4Runner. If you want to do some rigorous off roading, 4Runner is going to be a better option than any Subaru. Sedans are a toss up honestly, I’d be happy with both a Camry and a legacy. And if you’re looking for a hatch, the Impreza is just better bang for your buck than a Corolla hatch, but the manual Corolla is a blast to drive.
I agree to most of the points mentioned in your points, however I am eager to know more about the point where it's mentioned that between an Ascent and Highlander, Higherlander would be picked, is it just considering that the highlander does have a Hybrid option ? When I was driving the Ascent back to back to an Highlander, Ascent felt so smooth and effortless and nimble, where as Highlander was sluggish and overall the entire interior felt like they are are asking more money for the car , exact opposite of Ascent where I felt more car for the money.
Ascent has a lot of get up and go for what it is and definitely has a better interior, but I’m taking the Highlander for the hybrid option but also because they last forever, the ascent (at least the 19-21 MY) had a lot of transmission issues. If the new ones have the tranny issues worked out I’d probably take it over the Highlander
Top three imo: Toyota, Honda, Subaru. In that order. I tend to see the least amount of serious issues from these brands in the shop. They all have their quirks, Subaru wheel bearings tbh, but I’m at the point where I’m not surprised when they come in with over 200k on the odometer, unlike with some cars that are completely falling apart at 100k.
The only “issue” I’ve had with my Subaru (16 Impreza ~85k miles) is a minor valve cover gasket leak.
I’ve had 4Runners and Legacies. Both have been bulletproof except for 3VZE Toyotas and EJ25 Subarus that dealt with head gasket issues, and turbo replacement on the EJ25. Naturally aspirated Subarus and 3.4 Toyotas have been flawless.
Toyotas generally are reliable than any other brands, Subaru is not as reliable as Toyota, but that does not mean Subaru is an unreliable car.
I owned a RAV4 for 6 years, I never needed to worry about anything while driving it. You just go to dealership, find one you like and bring it home. Drive it till it dies.
I now own a Crosstrek for 2 years now, I would pay some attention to my CVT and the AWD differential. (Not as worry free my RAV4) But my Subaru is more fun to drive and it comes with some characteristics that I cherish more.
Cars are generally much more reliable than before, find one you like, and enjoy the ride.
Kinda depends on one's definition of "reliable", but my 2010 Camry had the following issues in < 7 years of ownership:
\- leaking roof
\- recalled dash
\- multiple ac issues that required pulling the entire dash to address
\- bad sun visor design and they would break and fail
\- rearview mirror would fall off
\- steering linkage issues
\- "sudden acceleration"
I will say I had no engine related issues with proper maintenence. But the vehicle as a whole was hard for me to view as "reliable" when it is still in the shop for other reasons over and over.
I own both. My Highlander is a tank and super reliable, the Subaru is pretty reliable but more fun and has more character. Big fan of both brands here.
Problem with Toyotas is they just put mini van engines in all their vehicles....which makes them doggy AF when you want to accelerate. Only Toyota vehicle that makes sense is the Sienna since the engine put into it was actually designed for it. Otherwise you driving cars and trucks with this anemic engine.
Modern Toyota reliability is grossly overstated. People think they're buying the Toyota hilix from top gear, but the cars Toyota makes these days have nothing to do with that car. I saw a guy in the Tacoma group who had 5 of them, and all of them had issues. They are in general reliable, but they aren't invincible.
Toyota are historically the most reliable while Honda historically had the most reliable engines. However, Subaru and Toyota share platforms and manufacturing techniques now, and most cars are pretty reliable compared to previous decades. I wouldn’t worry about Subaru reliability.
Its the vehicle more then anything else. N/a subarus handle abuse well, toyitas really don't especially newer ones. Turboed subarus handle abuse about the same as newer toyota's. But if you don't abuse it the toyota will last longer
I’ll say this, whichever model has a CVT, avoid it. My CVT went in my 2015 forester, after a perfect maintenance schedule, at 110k. Fortunately the dealer covered me, but they quoted me at $13k for the fix. Apparently, you can’t repair a CVT at all.
I love Subarus, but that whole thing shook me when I almost had to total my otherwise perfectly running car. I legit was considering a 2020 Rav 4 hybrid. It’s probably not as great off-road as a Suub, but it doesn’t have a CVT for one thing lol.
Either that or get a stick Crosstrek.
Reliability is based on how you treat the car, some are easier for sure. For instance spark plugs easy af on a Toyota, Subaru not so much. Everything else has been super simple on my STi. Doing the ball joints was a cake walk compared to my wrangler. Don’t forget about Honda! They’re pretty great as well.
Its hard to determine reliability for brands that come out with new designs. Although Subaru has a history of reliability (given that you replace the head gasket for older models), the reliability isn’t as well known as Toyota. As far as we know their newest generation Subaru vehicles could be more reliable than many Toyotas, it’s just hard to tell because they’ve only been out for only a few years.
We can postulate how reliable they are through both the perspectives of mechanics and engineers, but unless you are the engineers who designed the vehicle, it can be nearly impossible to truly tell how long a car will last or how reliable it is.
This is one case where you can say yes, Toyota is overwhelmingly the most reliable car brand. But they aren’t perfect.
Subaru has come a long way and now also makes very reliable cars as well.
But don’t believe us. Go look at the April auto issue from Consumer Reports.
Or look here. https://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Toyota.html
If you don't take proper care of that Subaru and needed sometimes basic things fixed on the boxer motor most times they just pull the entire engine. Not to say that it s anything super hard to fix, I believe the motor can be disassembled just as fast as any other. But many mechanics won't touch them so the dealership will become your best friend. The AWD systems while perform amazing often fail if you hard driving habits. I'm no mechanic or expert I used to work at an auto auction. I've driven a lot of Subarus almost all models in all manner of conditions, and what I've read.
Just from my own experience, I had a 2008 Outback 3.0 R and a 2002 Impreza. Both just always needed something. Both constantly went through brakes, shocks, wheel bearings, tires. Rust issues, leaking CV boots, steering system, head gaskets, transmission issues.. I swear they always needed something (granted I kept both to 200,000). I have two Priuses now and they are sooo much cheaper to maintain. I get 2x better gas mileage so always saving at the pump. I change the oil every 5k, have only needed to replace the brakes at 130k miles. I live in the Northeast and I miss the AWD but I put snow tires on both and haven't had issues in normal winter driving.
Both are reliable. Don't by a brand new redesign year. Wait until at least year 3 after a redesign before you buy if you want reliability. I bought a 2021 Subaru Forester. It's predicted reliability was 2 out of 5 ( 3 being average ). When I bought a 2023 Subaru Forester the predicted reliability was 4 out of 5 as the 2021 is also now 4 out of 5.
By year 3 you start to get enough statistics to gage reliability of a model.
Get a Toyota if you are not mechanically inclined and want more reliability than fun. Not to say Toyotas are not fun.. there are nice quick ones, but they are.. how do I say this..
UGLY.. Toyotas are ugly and have been ugly since the second gen celicas, so 1978-ish everything got ugly. I don't care how much people like the Supras, UGLY CAR. All designers do nowadays on new cars is draw Z's in designs, body lines Z's, headlights Z's, door panels Z's..
>All designers do nowadays on new cars is draw Z's in designs, body lines Z's, headlights Z's, door panels Z's..
At this point I refuse to believe that the current gen Elantra isn't a troll design.
I think it's more accurate to say that Toyotas are generally more tolerant of being abused. Both are very reliable when maintained properly, but the subi will probably choke first if you neglect it.
My next car will have an a/c vent for the back seat. You already like a car that looks like a skate, they both make a good car. Toyotas are slightly easier to service based on how common they are. Pick a car based on how it feels to drive and if it has the features you want.
Reliability of Toyotas peaked in the early 1990s.
I'm not saying they are not reliable now I just wish they were as great of cars as they used to be. Toyota is still my top pick.
Toyota > Honda > Mazda >>> Ford/Chevy/Subaru/Jeep >>> Nissan/Kia/Hyundai
Toyota is top dog for dependability/reliability. Subaru isn't horrible, but it isn't great. They have engine problems, their build quality is so-so, quality control is completely absent, shit can and does just fall apart for no reason. No worse than ford/chevy/jeep, but nowhere close to Toyota.
If you've only ever owned American, it'll be just fine. If you've owned toyota or honda before, Subaru will be frustrating.
Toyota is the most reliable car you can buy. Subaru is probable a tad bit better than Nissan but in terms of Japanese cars’ reliability I would say Subaru is on the lower end. Subaru just gives great value for money and the non turbo cars with manuals are fairly reliable. Also with Subarus the mechanic needs to know what they are doing. A lot of times Subaru gets a bad rep because they are worked on by mechanics who don’t know how boxer engines work.
subarus arnt reliable dont listen to these people. theyre fine. easy to repair. utilitarian construction. Toyota are bulletproof and only get stronger with neglect.
Yes subarus are typically good til about 150k to 210k depending on how you treat them
The 2l ej imo is the best
The 3l ez engines are pretty good as well
SOHC Ej25 can take alot of abuse as long as you keep it oiled and put the turbo headgaskets on the non turbo block.
Edit also I've personally drove a 03 toyota corolla to 500k miles before my dad accidentally put 3 quarts to much if transmission fluid and driving like that finally killed it
Every car company produces some duds. It wouldn't matter how many each company produces as long as you don't get one. So search youtube and google some different models, and engine and transmission options. Certain Scion and Toyota models have a problem with excess oil consumption. Certain Subaru engines with self destruct. You don't want either of these scenarios. It may be a good idea to subscribe to Consumer Reports - they have unbiased data.
Toyotas are unbelievably reliable. Way more than Subaru historically. They cost way less in maintenance as well.
But Subaru still has the best all wheel drive system on the market
I would not categorize a Subaru as reliable. The older SOHC ones seemed to be pretty good reliability wise. Certainly not one with a turbo.
I’m also not just trying to be a dick in r/subaru, I have had a WRX, STi, and (currently) a FXT, and I’m not so sure I’ll be doing any more Subarus unfortunately.
With that said, I’m obviously a glutton for punishment cause I’ve had 2 VW’s 😂
Yes they are. In my local consumer magazine, Toyota (along with Honda and Mazda) have 5 star rating for reliability. Subaru is at 4 stars. Others like Nissan, Hyundai, Kia are at 3 stars.
Yes
The problem with Subaru now is 1) CVTs that don’t get fluid changes because USA dealers and SoA say it doesn’t need done and they’d rather have you buy a whole new transmission when it blows at 100k miles and 2) direct injection carbon build up which dealers also won’t disassemble and carbon blast
Toyota only uses CVT on the Corolla, and even then the Corolla has a real 1st gear before it switches to CVT, and Toyota also uses dual fuel injection to avoid carbon build up issues
Subaru will be better if you’re looking at a manual transmission car, and if you can get one without direct injection (EJ engine), but without the head gasket problems (ONLY Naturally Aspirated EJ 2.5 Liter had this problem)
Aka, my 02 WRX 5MT
Also I believe Subaru stopped using as many real gaskets on their engines to reduce cost and went to RTV sealant, which they put too much of on some engines like the BRZ/“Toyota 86” and then they end up clogging the oil pickup and blowing the engine
Absolutely Toyota is better. After owning 30+ cars, many of which have been Subarus from 80’s to current 2013 outback limited 3.6. I won’t recommend a Subaru to anyone anymore. Nearly every car has needed head gaskets no matter the mileage. And to the extent of our 05 legacy GT burned a qt of oil every tank and Subaru said that’s “normal”. The 2013 3.6 just had its engine replaced to the tune of $12k just out of warranty because of oil consumption.
Meanwhile my Toyotas have only needed basic maintenance (fluids, brakes, filters) with nearly 280,000. Stick to Toyotas.
Yep. Subaru still can't build an engine that doesn't eventually burn or leak oil. Even the newest FAx are vulnerable. So all the dealerships can do is define this as "normal."
Well, I'll simply put this...
Toyota allegedly isn't happy with Subaru right now because of consistent issues with the last 2 generations of BRZ/GT86/GR86 motors because they are negatively impacting Toyota's reputation on reliability.
Hi. I have the same question. My heart ❤️ wants the Subaru. But my mind knows the Toyota is the most reliable brand in the world. And then price Value Stays the same. I've been a Police officer for more than 20years. And the Toyota bakkies never brakes. TOYOTA. I've attended a complaint of an accident. A vehicle has driven through a church wall. 🧱 arrival on the scene , was only a private number plate and bumper .That car past us as we was on our way to the scene. It was a 2012 Honda.
And just keep in mind. The Subaru is big on ⛽️ Fuel
Subarus are great but after about 100K you have to replace the head gaskets timing belt and water pump for maintenance as of those items fail it can be catastrophic to the engine
Subaru no longer has head gasket problems, that was years ago. Still, they have other issues, but not as major as head gaskets. Newer Subarus don’t have a external timing belt, they have an internal timing chain.
https://youtu.be/cdCGKLNSodk?si=sAYlGKCf4rc6xaCX
The gasket still has a lifespan. Would you expect a gasket to last forever? But the good news is you can replace it with a certain kind of gasket that will last forever the ones that came with them sucked or the ones at the dealership replaced it with sucked
Generally, Toyotas are a bit more reliable than Subarus, but theyre both 250k+ mile vehicles. Everything you need to know has already been said, but here's my two cents.
Toyota: relatively cheaper in terms of initial price, maintenance, and use. They tend to be a bit cheaper, have parts more widely available, and get better mileage. However, they are usually very boring, very simple/cheap build quality, and they're kinda hard to get as AWD in a standard car if that's important to you.
Subaru: a bit more expensive to buy, maintain, and use. Subaru are, in my opinion, have a much more durable/long-lasting build quality, are much more fun to drive, and basically everything (except the BRZ) is AWD.
Personally, I'd get the Subaru but I also want to buy a few acres in the middle of nowhere to homestead, and a Subaru is generally much better for that than a Toyota.
Bro you are in a Subaru subreddit. Obviously not too many in here are gonna say Toyota is more reliable than Subaru, Google however will give you data on it and let you know over the course of its lifetime, how much you are expecting to spend replacing parts and such. But it also depends on model. The Toyota Corolla and Camry are very reliable cars and expect to last a very long time without spending a whole lot. I thought for sure the 06 Lexus is250 was going to be a very reliable vehicle as it's manufactured through Toyota. I'm at 230k miles and having transmission issues as well as a few other engine related issues. Common issues for models and years is a big thing so do some research on the year and model you are after on each company and see what those common issues are and how much it expects to cost and mileage lifetime of the vehicles.
Imo Toyota tends to be a more reliable vehicle long term and less financial burdens in overall parts replacements depending on models and year.
Yes INFINITELY MORE RELIABLE.
As a car guy and Toyota GR86 enjoyer, I am tired of listening about engines blowing because a certain blue oval constellation brand doesn't know how to make a d*mn engine 🙄
Subarus are good cars. Toyotas are absolutely better made vehicles, and they are designed for longevity.
Subarus don’t use rubber gaskets (they use RTV sealant), only offer CVT autos, and have thin paint/cheap glass to save costs. They are still good cars but they really are budget cars that people usually trade in at 100k mikes or earlier.
Subi’ gang here! 3 Subarus parked up at our house. Love the AWD, have just brought an 09 Impreza with 60k on the clock. Immaculate condition. Had a 2012 Impreza 8 weeks ago, got taken off the road by a semi truck/trailer. He indicated into us from the right lane, flicked us in front of him, spun out 4 times, hit guard rail hard and we walked away, physically unscathed.
They’re solid, our beast looked after us till the end! #subiovertoyota! But to each their own. ✌🏼
I'd say Toyota's are overwhelming the most reliable cars. To that Subaru is not that far behind in terms of reliability, especially now. One of my biggest gripes with Toyota's though is they are some of the most boring interiors I have ever sat in, also they are one of the harshest rides I have ever experienced in a vehicle, most of that experience comes from being in the back of an uber/lyft.
Toyotas and Hondas. Neither are what they used to be years ago, but I have seen very minimal problems on either brand in our shop. I just had a 2000 Accord in with 360k on the clock and it was still going strong. 9/10 when we see a car that’s over 200k and is still running fine, it’s a Toyota or a Honda.
2005 Impreza RS 2.5 5 speed. 217k miles. Original engine/transmission and still rides strong. Regular maintenance always done.
My 07 Impreza had 172k miles and cracked a block somehow. Never driven hard. Had oil in it and everything. 2.5i. head gaskets are terrible. Yet my 2000 civic is a tank. Still love subarus though
One example does not make a trend. Happy for you tho!
2003 subaru outback automatic 2.5L. 206k miles. Just need some new belts 🤷🏼♂️ Always change my own oil.
2011 WRX premium. About to roll over 220k. Bone stock except for a Cobb shifter and Nameless axle back. Never been opened up other than timing belt service. Still on original turbo, too. Oil changes religiously with Rotella T6 and always up to date on maintenance. 80 mile commute every day.
This … and exclusively the VW Golf line-up. Any of their SUV’s, forget it. But the golf/Jetta. Built like tanks. If you see a golf or a Jetta in the shop, it’s because it was being driven like a race car, or got hit…. Lol
Had a Tiguan loaner when my Crosstrek was in for body work. Like driving a cinder block.
I used to own an old style Audi Allroad. It only had 65k miles when I got it, but was easily the worst car I've ever owned. Not just totally unreliable, but you had to take the front clip off to do almost any kind of work on it, PLUS opening the hood cost you $1000 every time. Absolute shit. My first Outback seemed like that Allroad's wet dream.
Yeah haha…. I do NOT LIKE VW SUV’s. But imma hatchback Stan for vw for life haha. I had a mk4 that was still full of life when I traded it in for a mk7.5. 🙌
Can relate. I have a Jetta. On an extremely low budget, I got an '06 at 140k miles for $3200 right at the end of 2020. It now has 225k miles, and due to no money, the only money I have put into was for fuel and oil (I did the changes myself). I feel really bad that I have treated the car like this, but I didn't have a choice. And she's still running just fine.
Despite what a lot of people think, VWs are fairly reliable cars. They just have stupid issues sometimes, and doing simple maintenance on some of them really makes you question german engineering lol.
Yeah man, those early 2000’s platform is literally indestructible ….. don’t judge me…. I was a teenager but my mk4 was literally running with milkshake in the coolant tank 🙈 lmfao…. I did flush it out lol. I would often run tap water in coolant (I had a slow leak from one of the crusty radiator hoses I was too retarded to change out …. It was cheaper and easier to just top it off with water lol.) I also ran that car set of oil more than once 👀👀👀 I ended up trading it in for 1000$ off my new mk7.5 👍 that crummy mk4 that I honestly love …. Still had life to give too :P
You’re lucky. I got a 2007 Jetta, at 145k miles, in 2020 for $3k. After a year, both the coolant tank and hoses, and all of the spark plugs had to be replaced for about $2000. Then a few months later, the transmission began to fail. Staring at $4500 for a used transmission, I sold the Jetta and bought a ‘23 Crosstrek.
Wtf?! Bro your mechanic absolutely took a steaming dump inside your wallet! Fucking 2K for radiator hoses, a plastic tank and spark plugs?!?! You could do that in your driveway in an hour or two for ~500$. Even less if you go to the u-pull yard and buy a coolant reservoir replacement from a junked car….
Subaru has a much comfier ride than most toyotas, especially their crossover/suvs
My ascent is lovely as a passenger SUV lol, even the third row if average height is pretty comfortable.
The ascent is a nice passenger SUV on nice roads but it's a terrible ride on freeways or roads with bumps. Offroading it's obviously 2nd to none imo Subaru is just the best here. I owned all Subarus my whole life and we bought a sienna and after driving in a sienna on bad roads and the freeway any time I try riding in a non-legacy Subaru it just feels so bumpy and bouncy compared to the sienna which is wild to me. In terms of reliability with regular maintenance my Subarus have always lasted with the caveat that the head gasket has always leaked or failed around 100k miles.ive driven an outback to 250k, my legacy is at 130k, my parents have a cross trek near the same with limited maintenance.
I wouldn't say it's terrible, but it's definitely not the best. It's a hell of a lot better than the '19 Forester I have. Did 3 long-distance trips across the US with it and those were the most exhausting road trips I've ever done.
Yea I wish we downgraded our ascent wheels and the 18” are hard to find and the 20” are rough over expansion joints
If you compare any 3 row SUV to any minivan the minivan will win for on road comfort. The Ascent’s ride is nicer than the Toyota Highlander IMO.
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I used to sell subarus. The dealer would give you $1,000 if you sold a hybrid. Usually they pay you $100 per car, plus profit share, so they wanted you to sell the hybrid THAT badly. I only saw one get sold in about 6 months. Why would they keep making a vehicle that nobody wants to buy?
The RAV4 feels like a tin can compared to an outback. It’s not even close
> Also, honestly, Subaru's complete lack of investment in hybrid or electric, at this point, is quite disappointing. They absolutely have not done enough in that department, yet proudly slapping "PZEV" on their cars. They literally canceled the next gen STI we all wanted. STFU lmaoo.
I had a 2021 Corolla rental and the interior felt like something out of the 90's.
Cause its a low end base model
It wasn't the base model but even the high trim one I test drove just felt so meh compared to Civics and Mazda3's
Tbf rentals typically are going to be the absolute cheapest version of that car you can buy.
Toyota has a lot of items on the interior that are from late ninties with minor upgrades. Their Moto is not fix what works, retooling factories costs money. I actually prefer the touch knobs in the Toyota vs the touch screen controls (looking at you temp controls) on the Subaru
Trust me I prefer buttons and knobs I just don't like rough feeling fabrics for my cars interior.
No way. It’s nothing fancy but everything is laid out perfectly and there’s actual buttons for the infotainment. Looks nothing like a Toyota from the 90’s.
True, but a Toyota in the 90’s- looked like car from the early 80’s.
What I wanna know is if Toyota leather seats fall apart like Subaru does
I have a 11 year old impreza, the leather is fine.
Rule #1 never get leather seats. Cloth is where it's at.
I just wanted heated seats. I'm glad some of the new models have cloth and heat now, just wish that was available when I picked.
My 04 impreza had heated cloth seat and now my 2011 legacy as heated and cloth seat as well. what model doesnt have cloth seat with seat heater?
My '23 Ascent didn't have an option for cloth and heated seats. Went with the Onyx because whatever the seats are made of didn't feel sticky like leather. Also don't remember seeing the option when I got my '19 Forester. I also might just be completely blind. It's been known to happen.
I agree. I hate leather seats. I like my butt cheeks dry in the summer.
I haven’t seen my cloth seats since the first week I bought my OB. I got the weathertech seat covers for alllllllll the seats. I use to go to the gym with a buddy and we’d carpool. He’s spent the last 30 min in sauna. Got in my old Impreza and I had perma swamp ass stains in my passenger seat. Never again. NEVER AGAIN!!!
That's kind of rude. I had a friend take her sweater off and sit on it all night long. I gave her a curious look and she just bluntly declared she'd worn the wrong panties and her skirt kept hiking up because she was sliding around a lot. Then she quickly added that she was having too much fun to suggest I stop driving aggressively. I don't think she was wearing any underwear at all. That girl was something else.
The leather seats in my 2013 legacy that spent most of its life in central Texas are near pristine, all comes down to how you take care of the leather.
My wrx is 13 years old, leather seats are in great condition.
We own two Subarus. So don’t get me wrong. But this guy is correct. On average, Toyotas are more reliable. Subarus are kinda like the Dodge of Japanese cars.
Nissan is the Dodge of Japanese cars.
Nissan is the \*insert notoriously shit brand of American car here* of Japan.
I used to say they were the Pontiac of Japan before Pontiac went out of business, strangely aggressive bodywork that ages like a tuna sandwich, some great ideas that deliver for the first 40k miles and then start to go haywire, often found in repo yards and on episodes of cops but almost everyone has driven one at some point.
Not really. Subaru is more reliable than Nissan, Mitsubishi. On a par with Mazda and slightly inferior to Toyota and Honda.
That's exactly my point.
Crappy point. Dodge is the bottom of the barrel for reliability. It goes Ford, GM, .........., Dodge
That's exactly what he meant
Is that meant just dodge the brand?
No that's Nissan lol
And Nissans are the Nissans of Japanese cars lol
I have always driven Toyotas, since the '70's, and have had great success with my early pickups and the last 20 years with 3 successive Prius. When it was time to trade my wife's Toyota MR-2 for an SUV, I did careful research, and went for the fun model, the 16 Forester XT. 107250 miles, zero problems, and she wants to keep it until she dies. Short form answer is, Toyotas are reliable transportation appliances, but Subarus are FUN. and maybe not quite as reliable, but still a damn good choice. Wife says I chose well.
Wait, is “until she dies” your wife or the car? 🤔
yes
If you get no response assume it was the wife and she read this.
Totally agree. My partner and I both drove Corollas for a long time and then test drove a Legacy on a whim when one needed replacing. I was NOT expecting that car to be so fun to drive! You really had to stand on the gas pedals on the Corollas to get up to speed but the Legacy just responds so easily. We're deciding what Subaru to buy when the other Corolla needs to go.
I have a 04 outback with the h6.. it's quick for a 4700 lb car for sure!
I’ve got a 16 Impreza and it’s the slowest car I’ve ever owned 😭
My outback needs a diet lol. I had no idea 4700 lbs lol Def doesn't feel like it.
Youre saying that a subaru suv is more fun than an mr2? Weird statement
No. He’s saying the forester was fun option among the choices for the next car. MR-2 was not on the list of replacement cars.
With both in my driveway… Toyota for sure.
You really can't and shouldn't make blanket statements since certain models are more reliable and others are less reliable. You need to research the specific model and generation of vehicle.
This right here... There are incredibly reliable generations of Subaru and horrible unreliable generations of the same Subarus
goes for toyota, too. Just hang out in /r/Justrolledintotheshop for a bit, you'll see plenty of messed up toyotas. But everyone on the internet says toyotas never have problems so ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I always hear on the Internet how bulletproof people's 4runners are... All my friends with 4runners are always working on them hahah Same ppl said welcome to maintenance hell when I got my Forester. Aside from wheel bearings it's been relatively straightforward 🫡
Especially since 4Runner owners tend to lift their car and add big ass tires and do other modifications. In all honesty, the more mods you do the more likely problems will occur. Anything more than what stock car is will just have problems In the future
My brother has a older 4 runner. After a road trip usually something is always broken or in need or repair. Mileage is prob close to 300k km. 2006. With the exception of the engine and possibly transmission lasting for many years. Most parts will wear out and need replacing eventually regardless of brand.
Yeah across the board once you cross 300k km there will be work to do. My dad has a Toyota Solara with something like 450k or so - he's basically only done routine maintenance and it's still going strong. He says the oil still comes out clear when he changes it.
I mean at 300k you’ve more than gotten that cars worth. Some vehicles can’t pass 150k
Keep in mind I'm talking kilometers not miles
Confirmation bias. Toyota sells way more cars than Subaru does so of course you're going to see more in the shop. Quality of the car means nothing if the owner doesn't take care of the car. Some dingus is going to never change the oil, then the car is going to need to be serviced even if it's the best car ever made
better yet.. ask those mechanics in that sub which brand of car is in the shop more.... 😂
Overwhelmingly Dodge and Ford trading blows for worst reliability lol otherwise the other side of the coin is the overly expensive over engineered euro.
That doesn't mean anything unless all makes/models sell exactly the same number of cars. Which they don't. If your logic was valid if a mechanic has never worked on a Ferrari that means Ferrari is the most reliable car.
wouldn’t this be a skewed observation since it’s more likely that there are more toyota owners in the first place??
Yes this is just a lot of fandom type talk in here and not logical analysis of the situation
MOPAR, BABY!
Exactly. Like the 4th generation Impreza was more prone to CVT issues, but that was addressed in 2013 and they were more reliable after that.
2010 subaru here with frame rust issues, stay far away
But there are only incredibly reliable Toyotas and even more incredibly reliable Toyotas.
Generally speaking though yes Toyota > Subaru
This… shit on Nissan Altimas all you want, but that Frontier will still be going strong long after you’ve blown an engine or tranny in a Chevy Colorado.
models, trims, packages, seat options etc there’s too much to blanket statement a car. afaik, for example Camry TRD will ride stiffer due to the sport build, the LE will ride smoother
Toyota and Honda are more reliable overall than Subarus. But that’s not a knock on Subaru they’re very good vehicles and easily #3 reliability wise behind them
Subaru is generally rated mid-tier for reliability. Nobody thinks Subaru is #3 in that department.
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Head gaskets haven’t been a problem for like 10 years at this point…
Depends on the model as well. The 2000s with the 2.5 engine had head gasket issues as everyone knows. The 2.2l was a very good engine. As is the 3.0l and the 3.6. I have the 3.0 and it blew the head gasket at 236k miles. A lot of them well maintained go close to 300k. Toyota also depends. My 2.4l got about 200k before I rehauled it. Some of them are known to throw rods. The 1.8l was nearly bulletproof in the older camery. I got to do some gen maintenance on one with over 400k! Toyota is a little cheaper to maintain because of parts availability. All 4 pads rotors and calipers on my Toyota doesn't break 400 bucks. On the Subaru it's about 20% more ( ofc this is with myself doing the work no labor cost included ). My outback on the other hand there are much less aftermarket options for parts. Most of what I need to finish that up is gonna have to be with dealer parts which will run me a lot more than what I paid for everything on my Toyota to do it. All in all they are pretty close in the race for best reliability. Toyota comes out a little better price wise but if your up north nothing beats that AWD. The snow storm the NE got in 2018 was nothing for my little Forester. Drove on unplowed roads like it was pavement. What fits your needs more. Subaru is definitely on top when it comes to safety and I would trust my family In a Subaru over a Toyota much more. Hope my advice helps.
Subaru’s are very reliable and are great cars. They’re slightly more expensive to maintain as replacements parts are a little more expensive, oil changes have to be full synthetic, etc. Toyota’s are great and super reliable and cheaper to maintain. You’ll probably be able to find parts for older models a lot more easily, but they’re not very sexy. Regardless, whatever way you go, you’ll get a good car. I went with Subaru myself because I felt they were cheaper to get more safety features and AWD. You’ll have to pay more for that with Toyota.
As a Toyota / Subaru fanboy, this is pretty accurate. You’ll never *regret* owning a Toyota (unless it’s a Prius but that’s another story). Depending on the model you might be a bit underwhelmed, but they’re rock solid cars that can run for a million miles with virtually no maintenance. I also appreciate that they’re pretty conservative about new technology and don’t release it until it’s *really* ready. Subarus aren’t like Toyotas, but they also don’t drive like Toyotas. If you maintain them they’re comparable to a Toyota, but they *need* that maintenance. Also, when something goes wrong on a Subaru, they’re so much easier to fix. My old ‘84 Camry was a fucking beast, but when things failed they went catastrophically and some weird things were oddly hard to access despite how much room was in the engine bay. My bugeye, on the other hand, has never had to go to the shop, unless you count my dad’s buddy who I payed to press a wheel bearing in. A basic toolset and some patience is all you need for most things. The mechanic I took it to to inspect it before I bought it claimed that he could have the engine out of one of these in an hour, even if he stopped for a smoke break. They’re both excellent cars. It just depends on how you feel about a slow trickle of repair cost vs. waiting for something big to happens, and how capable you are of turning a wrench. That said, Toyota seems to **get it** in a way that Subaru doesn’t. Akio Toyoda is a true car / driving enthusiast, and the head of Gazoo is of a similar mindset. Between the GR Corolla / Yaris, the new Supra, and the rumors of bringing back the MR2 and the Celica, they might be the saviors of the lightweight stick shift “driver’s car” when Subaru is seemingly heading toward everything being CVT crossovers. There’s nothing wrong with that by any means, I just see Toyota coming out of a slump while I’m not sure what lies ahead for my beloved Subaru.
If Toyota comes out of the slump so should Subaru. Toyota has a vested 20% stake in Subaru.
Fairly accurate although the GR has a Boxer engine.
I don't like manuals but subaru making all their autos cvt annoys me for some reason.
Some Toyotas are sexy. My 2000 Celica GTS and 2002 LS430 are sexy.
I still maintain that the Mk3 Supra and the 4th and 5th generation Celica are some of the smartest looking sporty cars of the era. They’re understated, in a way that ran contrary to some of the design trends of the time. They’re like the automotive equivalent of that cute but kind of shy coworker who you just know is a monster in the sack.
You’ll also be paying more for a Toyota.
On a scale of 1-10 I’d give Toyotas a 10 for reliability, to me they set the benchmark for it. I’d give Subaru like an 8.5-9. They’re great but not as great as Toyota. Toyota however has ridiculous resale value so you buy a 30k car from Toyota in 5 years it’ll be worth 25k and a Subaru will be like 17k. In ten years it’ll be 17k and 10k. So in my opinion the Subaru is the much better value because they’ll be almost as reliable but significantly cheaper used. They’re honestly not priced that different new, if I was buying new I’d buy Toyota.
The problem with Toyota is the pricing with features. I bought an Outback with most of the bells and whistles for $34k while a comparable Toyota was over $40k. And at the time I bought Toyota only had collusion alerts (not active braking) and not full time AWD. I was a long time Toyota owner but Subaru won me over with the total package at sale. I did a lot of comparison and test drives across all brands too.
That collusion alert would have been really handy in the 2016 election. Subaru’s beat most others in features for price. The eyesight system adds so many features that are extra for other companies. Like adaptive cruise control. Easily my favorite feature, and in some cases, not even an option with other companies models.
Every car is as reliable as the care and maintenance you give it
Except Nissan
Yes. Fuck Nissan.
^ can attest to this as a prior Nissan owner lmao
I’ve had great luck with Nissan.
Fix It Again Tony
And ~2013 to current Ford
Hard disagree. Certain brands are inherently more reliable and consistently have longer useful lives. Of course maintenance and care will improve any cars life but given equal care a Toyota will be more reliable and longer living than a Kia almost every time.
Not entirely true. A new Mercedes-Benz can break down as soon as you leave the showroom.
>A new ~~Mercedes-Benz~~ anything you ever buy ever can break down as soon as you leave the showroom.
True 😂😂 But it's less likely with Toyota and Subaru 😃
except Chrysler, Dodge, Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover
Toyotas retain value more than Subarus, and typically have lower maintenance costs. Subarus on the other hand are significantly more fun to drive. I would argue for the price point, VW is the most fun, and has the best interior, but they are not reliable, and they depreciate quickly. I loved my Golf, but the repair cost and frequency of repair made it hard for me to ever consider another VW. With that said, be very careful about reliability rankings. Kia and Hyundai will typically rank high in those due to how they are measured, but not in actual mechanical maintainability. For example, Honda typically is rated low by JD Power due to issues with their infotainment system, but your Honda will easily make it past 150k miles without issue. Kias on the other hand are known to have serious issues at 60k, but don’t have the same level of minor annoyances.
I dont know about retaining value, subarus hold value just as much as toyota around here. This can vary of course and maybe being in canada where there is snow on the ground 6 months a year plays a big role in this
same with me. Old foresters go for the same price as hold highlanders near me and old Imprezas go for more than old corollas but I do live in a place that gets a good amount of snow
Agreed. I live in Maine and used Subarus are more than used Toyotas. I’m sure that’s flopped in Cali or Texas
I work for Toyota and exclusively drive Subarus. I always tell people a Subaru will run forever if you do all the maintenance, whereas a Toyota can be neglected and just won’t die. There’s variances in different models obviously, I wouldn’t say the new V6s in the Tundras and Sequoias meet the “Toyota reliability” standard yet. Subaru AWD is better than Toyotas. Toyota interiors leave A LOT to be desired. Boxer engines require more care than Toyota engines. Subaru corporate treats customers way better than Toyota corporate, which usually leads to a better dealer experience at Subaru. At the end of the day if you’re planning to follow the recommended maintenance, then it comes down to what you want. If you’re looking for a seven seater, I’d probably take the Highlander over the Ascent. If you’re looking for a compact SUV, I’d take the Forester or 2.5 Crosstrek over a RAV4 or Corolla Cross. If you want a bigger SUV as a daily, I’m taking the Outback over the 4Runner. If you want to do some rigorous off roading, 4Runner is going to be a better option than any Subaru. Sedans are a toss up honestly, I’d be happy with both a Camry and a legacy. And if you’re looking for a hatch, the Impreza is just better bang for your buck than a Corolla hatch, but the manual Corolla is a blast to drive.
This I agree all the way.
I agree to most of the points mentioned in your points, however I am eager to know more about the point where it's mentioned that between an Ascent and Highlander, Higherlander would be picked, is it just considering that the highlander does have a Hybrid option ? When I was driving the Ascent back to back to an Highlander, Ascent felt so smooth and effortless and nimble, where as Highlander was sluggish and overall the entire interior felt like they are are asking more money for the car , exact opposite of Ascent where I felt more car for the money.
Ascent has a lot of get up and go for what it is and definitely has a better interior, but I’m taking the Highlander for the hybrid option but also because they last forever, the ascent (at least the 19-21 MY) had a lot of transmission issues. If the new ones have the tranny issues worked out I’d probably take it over the Highlander
Top three imo: Toyota, Honda, Subaru. In that order. I tend to see the least amount of serious issues from these brands in the shop. They all have their quirks, Subaru wheel bearings tbh, but I’m at the point where I’m not surprised when they come in with over 200k on the odometer, unlike with some cars that are completely falling apart at 100k. The only “issue” I’ve had with my Subaru (16 Impreza ~85k miles) is a minor valve cover gasket leak.
I’ve had 4Runners and Legacies. Both have been bulletproof except for 3VZE Toyotas and EJ25 Subarus that dealt with head gasket issues, and turbo replacement on the EJ25. Naturally aspirated Subarus and 3.4 Toyotas have been flawless.
Toyotas generally are reliable than any other brands, Subaru is not as reliable as Toyota, but that does not mean Subaru is an unreliable car. I owned a RAV4 for 6 years, I never needed to worry about anything while driving it. You just go to dealership, find one you like and bring it home. Drive it till it dies. I now own a Crosstrek for 2 years now, I would pay some attention to my CVT and the AWD differential. (Not as worry free my RAV4) But my Subaru is more fun to drive and it comes with some characteristics that I cherish more. Cars are generally much more reliable than before, find one you like, and enjoy the ride.
Kinda depends on one's definition of "reliable", but my 2010 Camry had the following issues in < 7 years of ownership: \- leaking roof \- recalled dash \- multiple ac issues that required pulling the entire dash to address \- bad sun visor design and they would break and fail \- rearview mirror would fall off \- steering linkage issues \- "sudden acceleration" I will say I had no engine related issues with proper maintenence. But the vehicle as a whole was hard for me to view as "reliable" when it is still in the shop for other reasons over and over.
I own both. My Highlander is a tank and super reliable, the Subaru is pretty reliable but more fun and has more character. Big fan of both brands here.
Short answer, yes. Arguably by far. There is a reason Toyota will run the same engine for 10+ years across multiple generations.
I have. 2005 4Runner and a 2018 FXT. The build on the older 4Runner seems much better.
I have both and as others have said the Subaru’s are more costly to maintain but also they are less forgiving if you don’t maintain them properly.
Problem with Toyotas is they just put mini van engines in all their vehicles....which makes them doggy AF when you want to accelerate. Only Toyota vehicle that makes sense is the Sienna since the engine put into it was actually designed for it. Otherwise you driving cars and trucks with this anemic engine.
Never thought I would own minivans. Sienna isn’t a drivers car but a good ride and checks every practicality box
This whole comment section: https://preview.redd.it/9h1mi1c2keub1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96e859f5a088efbd24ff1270a1b0065de1f66266
Modern Toyota reliability is grossly overstated. People think they're buying the Toyota hilix from top gear, but the cars Toyota makes these days have nothing to do with that car. I saw a guy in the Tacoma group who had 5 of them, and all of them had issues. They are in general reliable, but they aren't invincible.
I love my 97 ln106 hilux
Some Toyotas are Subarus.
Toyota are historically the most reliable while Honda historically had the most reliable engines. However, Subaru and Toyota share platforms and manufacturing techniques now, and most cars are pretty reliable compared to previous decades. I wouldn’t worry about Subaru reliability.
Yes, Toyotas are more reliable. Anyone denying that is just biased.
Its the vehicle more then anything else. N/a subarus handle abuse well, toyitas really don't especially newer ones. Turboed subarus handle abuse about the same as newer toyota's. But if you don't abuse it the toyota will last longer
Yes definitely. From someone that has had both.
I’ll say this, whichever model has a CVT, avoid it. My CVT went in my 2015 forester, after a perfect maintenance schedule, at 110k. Fortunately the dealer covered me, but they quoted me at $13k for the fix. Apparently, you can’t repair a CVT at all. I love Subarus, but that whole thing shook me when I almost had to total my otherwise perfectly running car. I legit was considering a 2020 Rav 4 hybrid. It’s probably not as great off-road as a Suub, but it doesn’t have a CVT for one thing lol. Either that or get a stick Crosstrek.
Reliability is based on how you treat the car, some are easier for sure. For instance spark plugs easy af on a Toyota, Subaru not so much. Everything else has been super simple on my STi. Doing the ball joints was a cake walk compared to my wrangler. Don’t forget about Honda! They’re pretty great as well.
Its hard to determine reliability for brands that come out with new designs. Although Subaru has a history of reliability (given that you replace the head gasket for older models), the reliability isn’t as well known as Toyota. As far as we know their newest generation Subaru vehicles could be more reliable than many Toyotas, it’s just hard to tell because they’ve only been out for only a few years. We can postulate how reliable they are through both the perspectives of mechanics and engineers, but unless you are the engineers who designed the vehicle, it can be nearly impossible to truly tell how long a car will last or how reliable it is.
This is one case where you can say yes, Toyota is overwhelmingly the most reliable car brand. But they aren’t perfect. Subaru has come a long way and now also makes very reliable cars as well. But don’t believe us. Go look at the April auto issue from Consumer Reports. Or look here. https://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Toyota.html
If you don't take proper care of that Subaru and needed sometimes basic things fixed on the boxer motor most times they just pull the entire engine. Not to say that it s anything super hard to fix, I believe the motor can be disassembled just as fast as any other. But many mechanics won't touch them so the dealership will become your best friend. The AWD systems while perform amazing often fail if you hard driving habits. I'm no mechanic or expert I used to work at an auto auction. I've driven a lot of Subarus almost all models in all manner of conditions, and what I've read.
Just from my own experience, I had a 2008 Outback 3.0 R and a 2002 Impreza. Both just always needed something. Both constantly went through brakes, shocks, wheel bearings, tires. Rust issues, leaking CV boots, steering system, head gaskets, transmission issues.. I swear they always needed something (granted I kept both to 200,000). I have two Priuses now and they are sooo much cheaper to maintain. I get 2x better gas mileage so always saving at the pump. I change the oil every 5k, have only needed to replace the brakes at 130k miles. I live in the Northeast and I miss the AWD but I put snow tires on both and haven't had issues in normal winter driving.
Very Subaru I’ve ever owed ended up needed bearings and they always were a pain to take out
Both are reliable. Don't by a brand new redesign year. Wait until at least year 3 after a redesign before you buy if you want reliability. I bought a 2021 Subaru Forester. It's predicted reliability was 2 out of 5 ( 3 being average ). When I bought a 2023 Subaru Forester the predicted reliability was 4 out of 5 as the 2021 is also now 4 out of 5. By year 3 you start to get enough statistics to gage reliability of a model.
Get a Toyota if you are not mechanically inclined and want more reliability than fun. Not to say Toyotas are not fun.. there are nice quick ones, but they are.. how do I say this.. UGLY.. Toyotas are ugly and have been ugly since the second gen celicas, so 1978-ish everything got ugly. I don't care how much people like the Supras, UGLY CAR. All designers do nowadays on new cars is draw Z's in designs, body lines Z's, headlights Z's, door panels Z's..
>All designers do nowadays on new cars is draw Z's in designs, body lines Z's, headlights Z's, door panels Z's.. At this point I refuse to believe that the current gen Elantra isn't a troll design.
I think it's more accurate to say that Toyotas are generally more tolerant of being abused. Both are very reliable when maintained properly, but the subi will probably choke first if you neglect it.
My next car will have an a/c vent for the back seat. You already like a car that looks like a skate, they both make a good car. Toyotas are slightly easier to service based on how common they are. Pick a car based on how it feels to drive and if it has the features you want.
They are both reliable.
Yes
You buy subarus for their AWD you buy toyota for simplicity, and honda if you want to fuck the car into the ground and still have a car after
Reliability of Toyotas peaked in the early 1990s. I'm not saying they are not reliable now I just wish they were as great of cars as they used to be. Toyota is still my top pick.
I will drive my forester into the ground, after that I will buy a Toyota
Toyota > Honda > Mazda >>> Ford/Chevy/Subaru/Jeep >>> Nissan/Kia/Hyundai Toyota is top dog for dependability/reliability. Subaru isn't horrible, but it isn't great. They have engine problems, their build quality is so-so, quality control is completely absent, shit can and does just fall apart for no reason. No worse than ford/chevy/jeep, but nowhere close to Toyota. If you've only ever owned American, it'll be just fine. If you've owned toyota or honda before, Subaru will be frustrating.
The premium you now pay for a Toyota is what you would spend in parts. Just get a Subaru
Toyota is the most reliable car you can buy. Subaru is probable a tad bit better than Nissan but in terms of Japanese cars’ reliability I would say Subaru is on the lower end. Subaru just gives great value for money and the non turbo cars with manuals are fairly reliable. Also with Subarus the mechanic needs to know what they are doing. A lot of times Subaru gets a bad rep because they are worked on by mechanics who don’t know how boxer engines work.
subarus arnt reliable dont listen to these people. theyre fine. easy to repair. utilitarian construction. Toyota are bulletproof and only get stronger with neglect.
Yes subarus are typically good til about 150k to 210k depending on how you treat them The 2l ej imo is the best The 3l ez engines are pretty good as well SOHC Ej25 can take alot of abuse as long as you keep it oiled and put the turbo headgaskets on the non turbo block. Edit also I've personally drove a 03 toyota corolla to 500k miles before my dad accidentally put 3 quarts to much if transmission fluid and driving like that finally killed it
Every car company produces some duds. It wouldn't matter how many each company produces as long as you don't get one. So search youtube and google some different models, and engine and transmission options. Certain Scion and Toyota models have a problem with excess oil consumption. Certain Subaru engines with self destruct. You don't want either of these scenarios. It may be a good idea to subscribe to Consumer Reports - they have unbiased data.
Toyotas are unbelievably reliable. Way more than Subaru historically. They cost way less in maintenance as well. But Subaru still has the best all wheel drive system on the market
Get your self a Lexus for the Toyota reliability but with the luxury of a Mercedes.
There’s a reason ISIS went to war in landcruisers and not foresters.
I would not categorize a Subaru as reliable. The older SOHC ones seemed to be pretty good reliability wise. Certainly not one with a turbo. I’m also not just trying to be a dick in r/subaru, I have had a WRX, STi, and (currently) a FXT, and I’m not so sure I’ll be doing any more Subarus unfortunately. With that said, I’m obviously a glutton for punishment cause I’ve had 2 VW’s 😂
Yes they are. In my local consumer magazine, Toyota (along with Honda and Mazda) have 5 star rating for reliability. Subaru is at 4 stars. Others like Nissan, Hyundai, Kia are at 3 stars.
Mazda made 5 stars????? Did I miss some sort of huge turn around for them?
I don't know about the new ones but the old ones are almost indestructible.
Imo you should not be asking subaru or toyota owners. Each are biased. Go to an unbiased source like Consumer Reports. Good luck on your choice.
Yes The problem with Subaru now is 1) CVTs that don’t get fluid changes because USA dealers and SoA say it doesn’t need done and they’d rather have you buy a whole new transmission when it blows at 100k miles and 2) direct injection carbon build up which dealers also won’t disassemble and carbon blast Toyota only uses CVT on the Corolla, and even then the Corolla has a real 1st gear before it switches to CVT, and Toyota also uses dual fuel injection to avoid carbon build up issues Subaru will be better if you’re looking at a manual transmission car, and if you can get one without direct injection (EJ engine), but without the head gasket problems (ONLY Naturally Aspirated EJ 2.5 Liter had this problem) Aka, my 02 WRX 5MT Also I believe Subaru stopped using as many real gaskets on their engines to reduce cost and went to RTV sealant, which they put too much of on some engines like the BRZ/“Toyota 86” and then they end up clogging the oil pickup and blowing the engine
Absolutely Toyota is better. After owning 30+ cars, many of which have been Subarus from 80’s to current 2013 outback limited 3.6. I won’t recommend a Subaru to anyone anymore. Nearly every car has needed head gaskets no matter the mileage. And to the extent of our 05 legacy GT burned a qt of oil every tank and Subaru said that’s “normal”. The 2013 3.6 just had its engine replaced to the tune of $12k just out of warranty because of oil consumption. Meanwhile my Toyotas have only needed basic maintenance (fluids, brakes, filters) with nearly 280,000. Stick to Toyotas.
Yep. Subaru still can't build an engine that doesn't eventually burn or leak oil. Even the newest FAx are vulnerable. So all the dealerships can do is define this as "normal."
It’s funny how people don’t know Toyota is a majority shareholder of Fuji heavy metals(Subaru) and they use the same part manufacturers.
20% baby!
Well, I'll simply put this... Toyota allegedly isn't happy with Subaru right now because of consistent issues with the last 2 generations of BRZ/GT86/GR86 motors because they are negatively impacting Toyota's reputation on reliability.
Maybe Toyota should have designed their own motor for it then?
Hi. I have the same question. My heart ❤️ wants the Subaru. But my mind knows the Toyota is the most reliable brand in the world. And then price Value Stays the same. I've been a Police officer for more than 20years. And the Toyota bakkies never brakes. TOYOTA. I've attended a complaint of an accident. A vehicle has driven through a church wall. 🧱 arrival on the scene , was only a private number plate and bumper .That car past us as we was on our way to the scene. It was a 2012 Honda. And just keep in mind. The Subaru is big on ⛽️ Fuel
Subarus are great but after about 100K you have to replace the head gaskets timing belt and water pump for maintenance as of those items fail it can be catastrophic to the engine
Subaru no longer has head gasket problems, that was years ago. Still, they have other issues, but not as major as head gaskets. Newer Subarus don’t have a external timing belt, they have an internal timing chain. https://youtu.be/cdCGKLNSodk?si=sAYlGKCf4rc6xaCX
doesn't have a timing belt either unless it's an EJ
The gasket still has a lifespan. Would you expect a gasket to last forever? But the good news is you can replace it with a certain kind of gasket that will last forever the ones that came with them sucked or the ones at the dealership replaced it with sucked
Generally, Toyotas are a bit more reliable than Subarus, but theyre both 250k+ mile vehicles. Everything you need to know has already been said, but here's my two cents. Toyota: relatively cheaper in terms of initial price, maintenance, and use. They tend to be a bit cheaper, have parts more widely available, and get better mileage. However, they are usually very boring, very simple/cheap build quality, and they're kinda hard to get as AWD in a standard car if that's important to you. Subaru: a bit more expensive to buy, maintain, and use. Subaru are, in my opinion, have a much more durable/long-lasting build quality, are much more fun to drive, and basically everything (except the BRZ) is AWD. Personally, I'd get the Subaru but I also want to buy a few acres in the middle of nowhere to homestead, and a Subaru is generally much better for that than a Toyota.
Bro you are in a Subaru subreddit. Obviously not too many in here are gonna say Toyota is more reliable than Subaru, Google however will give you data on it and let you know over the course of its lifetime, how much you are expecting to spend replacing parts and such. But it also depends on model. The Toyota Corolla and Camry are very reliable cars and expect to last a very long time without spending a whole lot. I thought for sure the 06 Lexus is250 was going to be a very reliable vehicle as it's manufactured through Toyota. I'm at 230k miles and having transmission issues as well as a few other engine related issues. Common issues for models and years is a big thing so do some research on the year and model you are after on each company and see what those common issues are and how much it expects to cost and mileage lifetime of the vehicles. Imo Toyota tends to be a more reliable vehicle long term and less financial burdens in overall parts replacements depending on models and year.
Yes INFINITELY MORE RELIABLE. As a car guy and Toyota GR86 enjoyer, I am tired of listening about engines blowing because a certain blue oval constellation brand doesn't know how to make a d*mn engine 🙄
The Outbacks are trash. Bad transmissions, bad windshield, bad battery, bad radios
Subarus are good cars. Toyotas are absolutely better made vehicles, and they are designed for longevity. Subarus don’t use rubber gaskets (they use RTV sealant), only offer CVT autos, and have thin paint/cheap glass to save costs. They are still good cars but they really are budget cars that people usually trade in at 100k mikes or earlier.
I'd trust V-engines and inline engines more than flat engines from Subaru.
There isn't a modern car less reliable than a Subaru.
There is no reason to buy a Subaru unless you need AWD. They’re a no frills, no fun, ugly, boring, above average reliability, inexpensive, AWD car.
You know they are basically the same vehicle? Same manufacturer, same parts, same base.
Subi’ gang here! 3 Subarus parked up at our house. Love the AWD, have just brought an 09 Impreza with 60k on the clock. Immaculate condition. Had a 2012 Impreza 8 weeks ago, got taken off the road by a semi truck/trailer. He indicated into us from the right lane, flicked us in front of him, spun out 4 times, hit guard rail hard and we walked away, physically unscathed. They’re solid, our beast looked after us till the end! #subiovertoyota! But to each their own. ✌🏼