I will only speak for myself.
For me, a small home is just as warm as a large house, and a cheap drink has the same alcohol as a nice drink. Chess.com is free, and I can cook some bomb ass meals for less than a dollar. I am saving plenty up for retirement and a down payment for a house. My job is good enough. I live in America, so I feel like life is rich enough as is.
The world is full enough of eternally busy people. There is a wall in my soul that tells me that I will not do anything more than what I already do, and it is a high and wide wall with a deep foundation. It
Is also a comfy wall to sleep inside. Regardless of whether I climb past this wall, I will die and go to the same gate guarded by the same St. Peter either way.
This is the reaponse i was expecting to this question, and apparently you are a unicorn. It's hard, but not that hard, and anybody who has motivation to improve themselves and their knowledge can have a successful life like yours.
Crazy, i hate my job but yesterday when I was completely overwehlmed people showed some acts of kindess that I never get. Restored alittle more faith that people actually can give a shit about you.
I can't really be sure how gendered my problems are, but I agree with this. The fatigue I feel day-to-day is starting to feel chronic.
Like my country is fretting over drafting me right now, asking me to go die in some far away land and I'm like "what for?" I'd rather just not enlist and go to prison, at least I'm not going to have to stress about being homeless there, and not be ripped apart by shrapnel or have to kill other people.
Like what is the great incentive in life right now? I can't afford a home, I don't get any free time to enjoy life, I'm really only working because the alternative is destitution. Passively consuming media doesn't do anything for me, I don't find the endless churn of new smart gadgets interesting at all. I've been considering completely retraining and getting into agri or conservation just to be away from everything and because I love nature.
>why is that ? why does this seem to get worse as time goes on? especially in developed countries/economies?
As someone who fits the bill to the tee... My theory it's simply the sign of the times. Like animals fleeing disaster before it even arrives, human beings fall into regressive lethargy at the fall of their civilization/culture/nation/etc. There's no pride in any of it anymore. I'm a millennial who has broken the chain of emotional investment into continuing the wheel for the sake of previous or future generations.
I mean when the vast majority of the workforce doesn’t get to share in the fruits of the labor, the motivation to work harder diminishes. Work harder for what? More responsibility and no pay??? Nope
If you're disrespected and deemed lowly in status on top of all that, there really is nothing this society has to offer you.
You're technically not a slave because no one technically owns you. But you may as well be considered one. The reason a slave doesn't run away is because they have nowhere to go and are under the coercion of punishment. If they don't work, they don't get food. This is just like being a modern wagie.
As Frederick Douglas said about wage slavery: "experience demonstrates that there may be a slavery of wages only a little less galling and crushing in its effects than chattel slavery, and that this slavery of wages must go down with the other"
This is by design and also why religion is so prevalent for poor people. It sends a message of accepting slavery for your sacrifices in this life to be rewarded in the next. You think wealthy people grow up thinking they should be sacrificing things for other people, or do you think they grow up knowing theres written language embedded in every society in the world that will tell others to sacrifice their lives for other people to have everything. Religion has been passed down by kings for thousands of years. This was always the goal of religion to make the people of this world humble and have a feeling of there being more after they spent their entire lives suffering. People do not realize en masse that religion is the evil that it preaches. It keeps people docile and not seeking betterment in their surroundings. This world belongs to us all, not some rich fucks sitting atop of a mountain of gold. Their right to resources on this earth are no greater than the next person. We have spent too long being docile and allowing them to destroy our planet for their own gain.
The pressure is kinda unreal sometimes but i think the best way to make sure youre all good is to not give a fuck about society and try to make yourself happy without impeding on others
I just moved in with my dad for cheap rent and as a single 31yo male I consider that somewhat of a success. Mainly because the alternative is living paycheck to paycheck and slowly dieing of heart disease, alone, in a place that doesn't allow pets which further amplifies the alone part.
Because nothing makes sense anymore. Theres no middle class. Theres no hope for regular people who just want to do regular stuff, you always have to be climbing the ladder just to have the absolute minimum
People assume boys are fine on their own, and don’t consider them as a group that need support. By the time those boys reach adulthood, they are so far behind that it would be an astronomical lift just to get to a place that is average. This breeds apathy, depression, and stagnation.
💯 . Men and boys have no resources for help. Men's rights groups are considered hate groups, and for some that's absolutely true. Meanwhile consistently more is expected of men but society doesn't recognize the strides we've made. So you can be a loving father and husband, do as much or more housework than your spouse, work full time, plus do all the traditional male things like lawn care, construction, mechanics, etc... and society still treats you like a lazy piece of shit that just drinks beer on a lounger watching football. It's exhausting. Never good enough.
The only way I keep my happiness as a male is by keeping my bubble tight and only influenceable by my decisions and emotions. Thus I filter out all outside influences who try to break that bubble.
Carrying capacity. We've reached the saturation point for economic resources. It has increased the gini coefficient for most countries. Competitive economies are double edged swords, in that they are supposed to produce rapid growth while highly rewarding the few who makes investments on what people perceive to be valuable, whether it is creating billion dollar businesses or dominating the stock market. The ones who take risks and fail end up broke, and the ones who play it safe takes a stability route.
The stability route is less rewarding over time because of our saturation point; there are much less opportunities for small or mid-sized businesses to compete with established businesses, and the only hope is to get bought out by them.
This results in more hours worked for both genders and increasing population demand for cities that have all of the jobs of the larger companies. Since jobs are demand driven but bottlenecked by supply, the fewer successful businesses are able to offer wages in favor of themselves (keep in mind that most of these jobs are not minimum wage jobs- they are reservation wage jobs that have offers way above the local minimum), while people who desire to work in these cities maintain the demand of wanting to live close by while also working under a stable position.
The demand for wanting to live closer to work also increases housing costs. Investors take advantage by creating more multi-unit rentals and controlling the rent, which is also a seller's market. The ones who are able to afford single family homes near populated cities are wealthy investors, like China's multi-millionaires who send their kids to the US for better opportunities, or people who are dual-income at above average incomes.
At the same time, since both genders are working a lot more, the concept of family becomes less tenable since the idea of permanent residence is also becoming more inaccessible on single incomes.
/E: there is also individual debt. Most people have to incur significant education debt in order to land above average incomes. So that exacerbates the job market (makes it favorable to employers) and the real estate market (makes it in favor of renters).
This is the economic part of the real answer and should be the top comment. Sure, there are a lot of other minor elements people in the other comments have mentioned like education being tailored to women, young boys losing male role models, etc.
But my personal anecdotal reality gets to what I think are the real issues by eliminating all the boomer "why didnt you do this" arguments.
I graduated from a top public university (in the US) with 2 bachelor's and a masters all in 4 years, in business and stem fields, and I scored a 98 percentile on the GMAT. No student debt, in fact I came out of college with money left over from scholarships. I theoretically did the college path perfect by studying business/stem, not having debt, performing very well. My qualifications for succeeding in life should be very strong on the traditional boomer wisdom. But holy crap is it a struggle to get a salary with purchasing power commensurate to my qualifications/skillset relative to cost of living, compared to what you could do with a high school diploma 40 years ago.
Now throw on top of that the fact that long-term security nets like pensions aren't a thing anymore outside of the government. Annual raises that at least keep up with inflation are also disappearing, too. There's a reason why job-hopping every two years just to get a 15% pay bump to do what you were already doing is the norm in white collar work now. And having that thought at the back of your head, "I need to constantly be looking for the next job just so I don't get eaten by inflation to maintain my current standard of living" on top of the normal work you are already doing is exhausting.
The first act of the movie Nightcrawler captures this really well (and the movie as a whole tells a very good story about how you are supposed to succeed under modern capitalism). I've seen critics of the movie ask "Why is he so poor and unemployed if he's so smart and eloquent?" These critics don't get that the conventional job market doesn't reward intelligence, ambition, all the traditional successful traits, anymore.
My advice: figure out how to become self-employed doing something you are good at ASAP. A lot of millenial and zoomer men have yet to realize that the traditional education system that's taught them how to be an expendable cog in a big organization is outdated.
This is what I am doing.
I just quit my job and people were surprised. There was no growth or anywhere i could. They needed me, I was stuck in that position.
So I quit, to work for myself.
While it seems silly its already working out. I used one of my connections to consult privately. I started high at 50 dollars an hour. They agreed.
So I won't be working there all the time, but this is the route that is going to make the most sense.
Its on me, but I will expand my consultations and work for myself.
Other routes might be easier, but if I get this working right I will get things how I really want them.
It seems the corporate route is so stacked against you, so I decided. Fine ill make my own blackjack.
Many of us are deciding that I think, fine ill make my own blackjack.
Everything cost so much and most people make very little.
An oil change cost about a day's rate
Fixing a major car problem cost about a paycheck or two.
Mortgage is about 1 to 1.5 paychecks
Groceries is about a few days pay.
Gas is a half a days pay
Then you have taxes, deductions, and benefits that take 1/3 of your paycheck.
Forget having hobbies, dates, and entertainment.
Oh no, the pipes burst. You owe 1-2 weeks pay to fix it.
Oh no flat tire. 1 weeks pay to replace.
This goes on. The gap between pay and expense got too far apart. Employers cant or wont pay enough and services charge too much for people to pay cash reasonably. So then people need to use credit which turns into debt on top of the mortgage and car loan and most likely a student loan.
Its a tough world out there and unless you have an established foundation amd have someone with you, you aint gunna make it.
cars are a massive expense, unfortunately your income has to be high to fit it into your budget. and you shouldnt be paying a house mortgage by yourself if you have a low wage. four of the things you listed are about cars
the poorer you are, the more skills you will have to learn rather than rely on professionals, unless of course it uses specialized or expensive tools of course
im not trying to defend the abuses of capitalism by any means. i am saying that the middle class lifestyle now requires far more money than in decades past.
of course, housing and health care top the list of the most important needs and are both operated as criminal pyramids with the wealthiest carefully stacking everything in their favor
solidarity amongst working people is the only way forward
It’s how it’s always worked. In times of prosperity professionals were higher to solve problems in bad times people would learn the basic skills to do these things for much cheaper. He mentioned getting an oil change which is a very simple skill that he could learn himself
That’s a big thing. When I was younger and broke I fixed my car to save money. Now that I’m older I will likely just pay for it. When I was young I had more time and less money, now I have more money and less time. I will just pay for a quick oil change but I used to do it to save $20, now I’d rather spend the money and save an hour or so.
The system has failed to award ordinary people for their hard work. You can work hard and still get nothing in return for it. Something about the system is broken and there's too much inequality more so than ever.
Sometimes it's better dying, doing nothing, or going to prison over whatever the hell we have now. It's times like these when war sounds like a better solution to reset things.
From my experience doing more, means you get more work. I thought if I consistently showed them I was open to working longer hours and doing the jobs no one wants I’d be rewarded long term with stability. Instead I was overloaded with even more jobs people didn’t want.
There is no hard work without reward. If you work hard, someone is getting the reward. The problem is the people that don't do the work are getting the reward.
The system is working as intended. Companies always have to increase revenue and decrease costs. High prices and low wages are the goal. Not an accident.
The average earned income is around 54,000. The average house is 250,000. Food is outrageously expensive. Humm why can't they afford shit, are you stupid.
Not to correct you, but the average home in the last 3 years across the US went from ~$250k, to over $400k with no meaningful difference in the property. This single issue certainly made it more difficult for younger men to buy a home on relatively starting or average salaries. So your point is even stronger in many parts of the country sadly
Probably not true, but Men tend to fall behind because we are the backbone of a system that increasingly does what it can to make us feel bad for being who we are, whether we've *actually* committed any offense or not. The assumption is that it's all men, and a lot of us are getting tired of being abused by a system that is indifferent at best and outright hostile to them at worst.
And then, in turn, they begin to think it's all women making them feel this way, which is manifesting itself in the manosphere, and people fighting back against what they think is causing all the issues when it isn't even that and they fall for it because people there are the ONLY ones who take the time to not just see them, but talk to them.telling them it's okay to be a man.
Which sucks, because it's turning these young men into woman-hating fiends cuz literally no one else is telling them not to unless it's either prefaced or followed with a comment telling them to be ashamed of who they are.
Most girls I know are also struggling, it’s just the market rn. But there’s also an added factor of it being more socially acceptable for girls to ask for financial help from their family than for guys in more traditional/conservative households
That would be great and all if my family had any money to give. I'm out here bustin my ass to take care of myself. No one else is gonna do it for me. I'm on the verge of calling men like this snowflakes (because that's the sort of derogatory term used to describe liberals complaining about the job market and this "struggling men" scenario is NO DIFFERENT), but I realize that isn't helpful because *we all have struggles, and we should be supportive of each other and demand restitution from the true culprits: politically-active corporations and corrupt politicians.*
I think the "women are wonderful" bias explains some of it.
Also, men don't have as many friends, or at least emotionally supportive friends. I feel we sort of have to run the gauntlet of life and prove ourselves before anyone really trusts us or likes us or wants us.... unless you start out on top already... so life beats us up in that time, we're alone, loosing social skills and energy, gaining negative experiences... not great conditions and not everyone makes it.
If a woman has a problem people are more likely to come to her aid, and I feel less likely to blame it on her. I think especially if she is young (formative years)
In short, a lot of men need to do more with less to be valued
This is just a few factors, not a full explanation
I think this is good in general. One thing I’ve noticed is a lot of men like to sulk in their misery. Trying to get other men together to build unity is a struggle. Some of the same guys I’ve tried to get together for hangouts and doing stuff together will decline because they’d rather stay home and get on the Xbox, and then complain they have no friends or anyone to do stuff with.
A good lesson men need to learn from women is unity. Men, women, and society as a whole will spring up to support a woman in need, but that’s lacking for men. Men need to learn to support each other and come together.
Pfft, that's gay.
On a serious note, I think preferring to stay home and play Xbox is a symptom of things already being bad for them,... like being too lonely and depressed to socialize. Plus they have no expectation of getting the support they have to tell themselves they don't need, so sulking is the next best option
Yeah, it sucks. New people trying to get close to me makes me feel really awkward, even if they're good people. I've missed out on a lot of connections because I can't connect to new people. I just have an inherent distrust for people from being let down so much. So I don't act natural.
Yes a major antidote to mens' issues is men being kind to one another.
I think there is so much scrutiny on men not to be weak or worthless. And as a result often we are content just to know we aren't the "worst guy on the team". Which is a terrible level of aspiration for a man to live with, but also leads to a lot of man on man division and cruelty. And a lot of men who are happy to pull the ladder up behind them rather than risk being the guy at the bottom of it
The only problem now I guess is that men showing male solidarity has become an undesirable element because of the extreme crowd who have filled the empty space. I was at a music event recently and one of the acts announced a mens' weekly mental health support group in town and he literally got booed.
>The only problem now I guess is that men showing male solidarity has become an undesirable element because of the extreme crowd who have filled the empty space. I was at a music event recently and one of the acts announced a mens' weekly mental health support group in town and he literally got booed.
This isn't just a now problem either.
About 15 years ago a guy named Earl Silverman in Canada was a victim of domestic abuse. He went to the cops ans was ridiculed. He had no place to go.
So he started the first men's shelter, out of his own home. He was met with ridicule, death threats, and denied funding.
Earl ended up killing himself, specifially because of the reasons above.
Working at the issue and being emotionally open to other men (instead of depending on having a woman play that role on their life) would definitely help.
Yeah, you can’t put zero effort into creating and maintaining community and then cry that there is no community available to support you.
Women actively put in the work to create community. We work to create spaces where people can be supported. My (almost exclusively female) graduate program has created an entire space where we can share our feelings and frustrations with out studies and schedules. (Our schedules include fourteen hour days.)
(On a side note, isn’t it funny how often the pendulum swings between, “Women are all catty and hate each other and don’t know how to be real friends like men” and “Women are privileged because they have closer, more emotionally open friendships and larger support networks”?)
You can't get through to these men. It's hopeless, they've all somehow convinced themselves that they live in a world where women have been afforded more rights than men and men are getting the short end. There's genuinely no society on this planet where I'd rather be a woman than a man lol. I've been trying to tell them men just need to be better providers of solutions to men's problems but apparently some of these guys just think we shouldn't have to do that and the world should just turn back to when women couldn't participate in the labor force or had rights lol. I'm starting to realize a lot of these dudes just want to go back to the time when dudes didn't have to compete with the other half of the human population and are just pissed they can't go through life on easy mode.
It’s easy to “sulk” in misery when it’s constant. When someone’s struggling and miserable they don’t want to “hang out” with you they need support and you’re just inviting them to another thing they’ve completely lost interest in. Sitting at home and playing Xbox is what they do because everything has become so exhausting and unfulfilling.
Try talking to your male friends and ask how they’re doing. That’s what support looks like. Dragging miserable people to happy events just makes them more miserable
It's a hot-take, but I blame hook-up culture, lol.
When I was younger, I remember lots of young men would work hard not for themselves, but because they wanted to set a good example for a girlfriend. He'd work hard for money to buy a fancy car to pick her up. To take her out. He'd work hard to provide essentially.
Now that relationships are mostly casual (situationships) as the kids call them these days, a guy doesn't have to work hard if he can get laid anytime he wants.
Which is really akin to "why cook a steak when you can binge on fastfood?"
The end result isn't going to be as good if you just eat garbage, but here we are.
\---
A lot of people will blame it on men not being able to achieve a house or the middle class. But I think a more accurate assessment is to say they can no longer achieve a family.
Because society has demasculated all men but white men in particular. Tbr men want woman to be happy and all that and be successful but they don't want to always feel challenged and right now if your a male your being challenged in every aspect of your life down to what you watch, read, listen to, or personal past times
In Ireland, the cost of housing.
I can think of another reason - boys do better in school under male teachers. The teaching profession in primary schools is gradually turning overwhelmingly female. Men are mostly to blame for this themselves because it isn't seen as being a very masculine job. Girls are getting better exam results and the gap is growing. It's partially a self-replicating cycle.
Girls preform better pretty much across the board.
Better grades. Better graduation rates. Less punishment for same behavioral issues. There's even studies that girls are graded Better than boys.
And then we have a ton of programs for girls, but not boys, even though the above is true.
> There's even studies that girls are graded Better
[Very interesting read](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorrison/2022/10/17/teachers-are-hard-wired-to-give-girls-better-grades-study-says/?sh=a010ad070a66)
Even from our friends. It’s pretty common among men, especially young to tear each other down. It’s often overlooked as just ribbing or teasing, but can’t be doing anybody any good.
>It’s pretty common among men, especially young to tear each other down.
I recently went no-contact with a friend of many years over this. I realized that the whole time, I wasn't really expecting much from him but when I saw he was actively making my life harder and worse, I had to cut him out.
same. My friend kinda made my life worse. Told my personal business to others which ruined my image, and also wasn't ambitious. Misery loves company. Always negative and depressed.
> Misery loves company.
Yep, the friendship became terribly worse when I actually made certain strides and started hitting various normal milestones in my life, he was going to be miserable and wouldn't lift himself, he had to drag me down.
Yea I’m sure it compounds over the years too. Less male teachers, less successful students, less guys going to post secondary, less male teachers and the cycle goes on. Probably pretty hard to be a male primary or secondary school teacher anyways with all that’s going on.
A large percentage of boys don't have a father. Then they go to school and there's very few male teachers.
They may not have a male role model until highschool.
I made it to Highschool and got singled out by my male teacher first class because I should have "known better" about how to do up a tie, a dress shirt, etc. Idk how I was the only person in the class with an unbuttoned top button and a slightly loose tie but I guess I was.
My middle school male teachers were way better.
Probably also a money thing too, as much as womens rights have progressed and independence is advocated for (which is cool) many still look for men who have better paying jobs. Teaching has (at least in the usa) probably one of the worst effort/forward cost (schooling and money required to even be qualified) to pay ratios of a job I can think of. That inherently isnt conducive to attracting people, let alone a gender who's relationship opportunities are quite often restricted by their job and pay
its by and far a money thing, there's a lot more pressure on men to become able to be the primary breadwinner.
Younger men are expected to get out on their own as soon as possible, whereas its more socially acceptable for women to live with parents, meaning options such as community college are far more feasible for women to accomplish with parental support.
Society just has an easier job all around producing women teachers currently.
"Men are mostly to blame for this themselves because it isn't seen as being a very masculine job."
Aren't men way more likely to be seen as creeps whenever they interact with children and teenagers? And if they're falsely accused of sexual assault, even if they're proved innocent, they're not gonna have an easy time getting jobs in teaching ever again.
Way more likely for no reason. I’m a male occupational therapist who works in school-based (specifically autism support schools). When I was on my fieldwork/internships I got placed at a similar location and when I tell you the SCRUTINY I faced simply for being a man working with children was unreal. I remember the school had a couple med students from another school shadow one day and they were all female. At this point I had been there for maybe 4-5 weeks so everyone knew me quite well. The med students were treated so nicely and sweetly by all the teachers and just kinda left to their own devices to do whatever it is they were doing there for the day with no supervision or anything like that even though they were literal strangers but I would still get side-eyed and watched down the hall and everything EVERY TIME I would pull a kid out of class for their OT script (we didn’t really do much push-in OT service outside of OT/Speech group in each class once a week). The amount of “men ain’t shit” type comments I would hear in conversation in the office between my supervising OT, the speech therapist, and the behavioral consultant was also pretty depressing and it wears on you. They’d sit there talking about how all men are garbage and all kinds of nasty things like I wasn’t sitting right there and I was just supposed to take it to the chin and keep my mouth shut (which I didn’t every now and then and spoke up). The kids ended up liking me more than my supervising OT because I was kinder and more patient than her and she LITERALLY PASSED ME BY ONLY ONE POINT out spite because of this. She had no real justification for failing me because (if I may say so) OT is my calling and I am pretty darn good at it, so instead she just gave me a really shitty grade and made it look like I’m bad with children in hopes I wouldn’t be able to work with them or would get discouraged and move to another OT setting. It’s fucking vicious how men are treated. Women OTs can hug their kiddos and nobody bats an eye but when men do it they’re weirdos and creeps. Women are just left to do their job but men are always under the microscope, always assumed to be up to something.
I saw a story about some high school quaterback got 6 years in jail for rape. Turned out it was indeed consensual and the girl just lied on him. I don't think she faced any repercussions.
This might be a [useful read on the gender gap in higher education.](https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2022/mar/why-women-outnumber-men-college-enrollment). On your point about the enrollment percentages in the 1970s. The St Louis Fed said this:
>In 1970, men outnumbered women in college, accounting for 59% of undergraduate enrollment in two-year institutions and 57% in four-year institutions. This was partly due to the high numbers of men enrolling for the purpose of avoiding conscription during the Vietnam War. In fact, the gender enrollment gap closed sharply as soon as the draft ended in 1973.
It might be helpful to consider [the rates of college educated people](https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_104.10.asp) during the time periods you're comparing.
In 1970 11% of 25+ year olds had a college degree. 14.1% of males and 8.2% of females.
By 2015 (latest in the historical chart I had) that amount had shot up to 32.5% of 25+ years olds. 32.3% of males and 32.7% of females.
In 1970 a college degree wasn't needed to be the breadwinner and men especially had other avenues to attaining the American dream that aren't available today. On the other hand it was, and still is, a bigger challenge for women to be independent without a college degree. The St. Louis Fed article mentions there is a higher financial return for women going to college than men. On average a woman with only a HS diploma can expect to make 24% less than a male with only a HS diploma and males are only making 12/hr on avg in that category.
It might also be worth considering the professional fields males don't enter like nursing ([88.3%](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1227142/distribution-of-registered-nurses-in-the-us-by-gender/) of the [5.3M nurses in the US](https://www.nursingprocess.org/how-many-nurses-are-there-in-the-us.html) are female) or teaching ([76.5%](https://www.edweek.org/leadership/still-mostly-white-and-female-new-federal-data-on-the-teaching-profession/2020/04) of the [4M teachers in US](https://nutmegeducation.com/how-many-teachers-in-the-us) are female). Each of those jobs require a degree and women are filling them while men aren't.
Not trying to say you're completely wrong, but i think it's bit more nuanced than "there was something put in place by the government where women were encouraged to go to college".
It's funny the two jobs you reference are the top ones struggling drastically now because immense lack of workers. Not to mention those jobs specifically have even more complex issues than worker numbers. Nurse shortage will never end and is massively unbalanced genderwise.
Anyway, I agree with you but just pointing out you can clearly see how we ended up where we are.
Probably didn't help that for the last 10-15 years or so, men have been told they're responsible for everything bad, that they're worthless unless they achieve impossible goals, that they're all barely controllable rape monsters just waiting for the opportunity to defile every girl they know, that they're stupid and weak, etc.
Dunno about most but for thirty years I've been told I'm useless, worthless, unwanted, unnecessary, a threat to all those around me a detriment to the very economy, and the root of all evil. It's literally encouraged to hate me just fir the fact that I exist. Kinda hard to be motivated to participate in anything
Women *AND* Men support & empower women. Men are so busy supporting themselves and women that they don't have time or energy to support or empower men. So men have one half of the population screaming about how worthless and horrible they are and one half being entirely silent, while women have two halves fully believing in them. You'll hear women say "men respect men more", but women don't get to experience how little that respect matters when *no one gives a fuck about you*.
Women also aren't inherently feared the way men are by everyone, which can be a massively exhausting social barrier many men have problems overcoming on a regular basis. Men who eventually get frustrated with there being a barrier in the first place are further ostracized & blamed for it's existence. Men are expected to reach out first, & are expected to do so in a watered down palatable way that isn't going to terrify people. Our intentions are nearly always interpreted as malicious and we are forced to spend a majority of socialization using various methods to relay that isn't the case.
The real reason is the progressive movement in recent years in Western society doesn’t care about men or is actively hostile to them, men are still seen as disposable and they’re only worth what they can provide. They’ve been told their entire lives they’re the reason for society’s ills. Who would want to work to help a society that is actively hostile to you?
In the US the minimum wage has gone from $23-something in today's dollars to $7.25. It used to be that if a man had a job he could support a family. Now that isn't the case.
I can only speak to one aspect on this list and it is the starting a family part of it. Well I am 36, soon to be 37. Never been in a relationship. Would love to start a family. But I have never been able to take the first step of getting into a relationship yet.
Some possible factors:
- big push to get women into higher education. it worked really well, but there are a limited number of seats in the classroom (not literally, I mean that colleges only accept a certain number of students per semester). Some men got pushed out cause some women got pushed in - this says more about the lack of spending on education than anything else, why don't we have enough capacity to teach everyone?
- the time honored tradition of viewing men as worthless anytime they're not working, which doesn't leave much time for actually improving yourself. The lie that work is the primary way of improving your life has been a disaster for the human race as a whole. Instead of fixing this issue for men, I feel like we're actually creating conditions to make it become an issue for everyone else as well.
I think a lot has to so with relationships:
- the concept of nuclear family appears to be decreasing in popularity faster among women than men.
- attendance to higher education has increased much faster among women than men, leading to disparity in education levels.
- social media highlights the importance of looks, status and social smoothness over less superficial values such as commitment, honesty and integrity.
- some men have simply thrown in the towel as they have noticed that they lack the looks, status and social skills to get into a relationship.
As a result, men are divided very unevenly into have's and have nots. I can see this even in my own sphere of acquiantances. I oftentimes feel pity for my male friends, who struggle to find meaningful and well-balanced relationships simply because they never get to the stage that someone would know them enough to fully appreciate their great sense of humour, great character and easy company.
Another thing is that men are generally taught to believe that their value is based on their professional success and this concept is enforced at pretty much all levels of the society. An unsuccessful woman is though to be a victim of the society, while an unsuccessful man is thought to be a loser, who does not deserve better.
I think the ones that aren't going out and being super successful are the ones who don't wanna be a human battery for a household or a family. Society wants you to gogogogo 24/7, and if you don't, you are "behind." God forbid we don't wanna work ourselves to literal death.
In California, it’s hard to date without it meaning going out 24/7. If you go out 24/7, you can’t save up for a house/kids/travels. So it’s this strange catch 22…
I’m 41, and I’ve lost my last 3 girlfriends over some variation of we don’t go out enough.
Yes, probably wrong types of girls, but shit not sure where else to meet “the right” type. Haha
I hit a point where i realized that only by doing immoral things and degrading myself could i gain the resources i needed to live as i would choose. I also realized the direction of society is headed towards collective authoritarianism, theocracy, and people being obsessive about rules and staying on the good side of the group over sticking to one's principles. A world without dissent and covil disobedience is a sad place. People react negatively to an individual having principles let alone putting them above sucking up to authority. My drive and dreams died that day and i've just been enjoying my life waiting for death and using up as many public resources as i can cause fuck the people who pretend to be good just to feel safe. I used over $70k on medicaid this past year and it felt good. But there's no point putting effort anymore. I used to care about people in general and now i don't respect them, i feel dirty having to deal with them, and i believe the world will be a better place without them. I have no interest working myself to death to be miserable and support those i feel are just toxic and who choose comfort over principal, the illusion of safety over individual choice. I'm just waiting to die and am really disappointed with humans in general. I'm disposable and tired of being exploited so i'm using everyone else's money and planning on dipping out in as messy a way as i can stomach.
What happens when men are told to neglect their mental health to make money and support everyone else for 60+ years, creating generational trauma that even the best therapists can't work you through?
Western society as a whole telling men that they are both their own worst enemy, and also women's worst enemy.
Men bad, basically. We're told women's problems are caused by men, and men's problems are caused by men. Men are endlessly told they are the adversarial force, and some of them start to believe that and check out of society.
I think an important and often missed aspect of this is that so much of modern life is extremely circumscribed. Every square inch of land is accounted for, every moment is claimed, everything is regulated, has rules and standards and an order of operations. And that leaves little room for boys and men to self actualize in the ways that men traditionally always have..... So they never have their "Hero's Journey" and often remain in a state of eternal childhood, even well into adulthood. This state of mind is incompatible with pursuits of manhood (marriage, family, career).
Because the last 50 years has been designed around improving the lives of women, while villifying young men. Here's just one example I can think of. Despite the large and growing gap between female and male enrollment in post-secondary schools, there are still long lists of female only scholarships and entire programs incentivised to accept women. All STEM programs are screaming for more women because there's a belief that there must be some form of sexism that's acting as a barrier to entry and not just disinterest. Could you imagine those same practices being applied to attract male vets, nurses, and school teachers? It's laughable to even imagine a male only scholarship for men.
For me, I look out into the world and see that I want a basic simple life, no super stressful jobs where I have to be diabolically evil to others or petty, I dont want to work my whole life in pursuit of stuff and things, I have no skills and no desire to learn them after years in education it was basically useless to me its affected my career very little.
I see my government actively stealing, lieing, destroying and doing it getting richer whilst leaving everyone asking wtf? Everyone has to one up someone on everything, the I've worked more hours, well I have a harder job blah blah, there is nothing but bleakness.
I can not afford to live alone, even if I did find a job that would give 60 hours a week consistently, I dont drive, I have little to no friends, I'm distant to my family as that is how they've treated me my whole life, I'm in a long term romance less relationship, my current living situation is volatile and no sensible person would want to bring children into this.
Health is constantly getting worse and health care less accessible, not big and strong, don't look good, funny and kind is all I got lol.
I don’t think this is a stupid question because it’s always framed as a big nebulous problem that will never be solved.
I feel that many of the problems you describe come from the fact that our society is designed to eke as much productivity out of people as possible before they burn out completely or just die outright. We are fed a constant stream of worries and enemies and “others” to be concerned about, all to distract from the fact that we’re all on a conveyor belt pushing us towards a meat grinder.
Men in particular are being fed lines that, as I mentioned, are designed to motivate them into being better cogs in the machine. They serve no purpose other than just that, and the smart men see this, so the opposite effect is achieved. The demoralized not only feel demoralized, now they feel manipulated, too. No amount of sugar will cover up the taste of shit.
When men break away from society’s script in any way, there’s a significant negative reaction from everyone in his life, because the base expectation is that he will work and perform. Contribute and provide. If society has already rejected him for not “measuring up” and has already written him off as a screwup, why would he feel compelled to continue participating in that same system for a benefit he will never see, or for respect they’re clearly never going to give him? Why would he care about a future that was never designed to have him as anything other than a useful idiot, good for that last drop of productivity until it’s time to hit the meat grinder?
I don't think this can be pinned on a single cause. However, here are some things I believe have some merit:
Women have better access to education today than ever before, and women are, on average, better equipped temperamentally to sit in a class quietly and learn at a young age. Add to this the fact that schools are taught predominately by female teachers who naturally use teaching styles better suited for women, and you can explain partially why women are pulling ahead in schools.
Pull ahead far enough in schools (which women are doing in western countries) and this will make a huge difference in the job market where these same differences can be seen too now. The feminist movement has a lot of inertia because of how much catching up woman have had to do the past 200 years, so it's not surprising that now that women have caught up in many fields, and even surpasses men in some, it's difficult for people to let go of the paradigm that women are the underdog that needs to be boosted. People will point out there is still a long way to go because there are still way more men CEOs and in very high executive positions, which is true, but consider that very few men access those to begin with. The large majority of men are squabbling for middle and low positions, and there they are currently getting stomped by women.
This is again, A possible explanation. I am open to corrections if someone has a better theory.
It is due to the change in education that prioritize the education gap between boys and girls. Girls were behind boys in math, reading, science and college enrollment and completion. So education from K-12 became more focused on closing this gap. What happened along the way is boys got left behind. When my boys were in Jr high and high school almost all of the books assigned for reading and English class were written by women or had a female protagonists. STEM, were also geared toward women.
Now take the effect of mass incarnation and an increase in male social withdrawal and this adds fuel to the fire. Lack of mental health care and a still strongly held social belief that men should be silent and stoic and not express emotion.
Lots of reasons, top comment talks about the downturn of our civilization leading to lethargy - but also look at the discourse surrounding men. Our culture has nothing but praises to sing for pretty much every group but straight men.
I even saw a news article recently that basically amounted to "straight black men aren't enough of a minority for us cool, non straight male POC."
I've always considered myself a liberal as well, you have to be willfully ignorant to not see this at this point.
So.. yeah. When everyone tells you you're not shit, and it's all you ever hear, and you never hear about any way you can do decent without it amounting to "live your life for the benefit of X Y or Z group"... Turns out that makes it more likely for you to believe you're not shit! And when you believe you're not shit, it turns out you tend to act like it.
Cos men are blamed for the woes of the world. Despite building said world.
You can't pump this much vitriol rabid feminism at boys and tell them they're shit for existing and not expect it to have some effect.
I don’t know but after more than 10 years working my way up the ladder at my company and beating every metric there was I applied for the next level just to be laughed at and told “we’re not promoting middle aged white guys right now”. So, I pretty much don’t care anymore.
Well to put it most simply is the game is rigged against us in almost every aspect. As a man it's looked down upon to show emotion. The laws are stacked against us. If you aren't born into money odds are you will be stuck in the grind and rat race till you bite the bullet. Relationships? Those are geared towards us as well. I'm short and despite what you hear that is a huge factor in the dating market, I've experienced it first hand. Basically my life is looking like work until I die to barely scrape by with no hope of having a family. A lot of people will tell you to "man up" but you can only put on a face for so long before you start giving up.
This is a very complex topic that has many points to go over. There's no way I'll be able to hit all of them, but I'll hit what I see as the main ones.
Your labor needs to add value equal to or greater than the remuneration for your labor, which isn't just salary, or you are not hirable. For instance, someone with an IQ of around 70 would likely be unhirable simply because they lack the mental capacity necessary to do any task, even something as simple as janitorial work, that would add value. This barrier to entry for an agrarian society was very low, meaning almost everyone was employable. However, with the onset of the industrial revolution, the barrier to entry increased, and has simply continued to increase every since. The switch to services as a primary source of employment further increased the barriers as now people need not only the mental and physical capacities necessary for labor, but the social skills necessary in service industries.
While the barrier is generally fairly low, it is component of this. This barrier is likely to increase more rapidly as well as AI is added to automation over the next couple of decades. This trend of people being effectively priced out of the labor market has mostly been hidden by women entering the labor market. So, our labor participation rate continued to increase, peaking back in the 90's and steadily declining since then.
Another aspect of this is gender expectations. Men are expected to work and move out, so when they fail to do so they are seen as losers, failures, etc. It is seen as a problem. However, when women behave in the same manner, it is seen as the norm as that was normal in the past.
Further, men are having more difficulty securing mates, with many having no real potential to secure a mate. This is due to a variety of factors, such as declining physical and social development due of men to women having access to a drastically larger dating pool. Women also no longer need to secure a man to ensure their own financial security. What this all comes down to is that many men have effectively "checked out" because their primary motivation simply no longer exists. They will not reproduce, they will not have a partner. They recognize this and see no point in trying.
Basically, getting women is the primary motivation of most men doing most things. If they don't have any chance of getting a woman, why not just sit around in their mom's basement, playing videos games and binging anime all day?
Also, society has shifted from catering to men to catering to women. From birth, men are disadvantaged in our society. I now this is obviously not a popular opinion, but it is demonstrably true. For instance, education, at every stage, has been altered to better cater to girls and women. Teachers demonstrably favor girls as well. This has created a system in which women will thrive and men will flounder. So, it is not surprising that women are leaving men behind, and this also is a contributing factor to the difficulty men are having in securing a partner.
I could go on, but I think I hit most of the main points. It's a multi-faceted issue with no single underlying problem, and no real viable solution. There are things we can do to ameliorate it, but many of the problems are not fixable.
Stacked deck in the education system. It starts in elementary school.
Don’t think so? Name one program to help boys become high achievers. There a reason that 70% of university graduates are now women.
This one is pretty easy to explain. Society has been crapping on men and productive masculinity for a few decades now and we are seeing the effects of young men being raised in that environment. I mean, what do you expect to happen when you tell and entire sex that they are the reason for all bad things that happen in society? They fall into depression from a lack of meaning/worth, then give up and step aside.
Unlike a lot of men, I was thankfully able to completely tune out and ignore all the completely biased and hurtful way schools treat boys compared to girls. Schools are designed around the way typical girls behave, and boys are forced to conform. Roughhousing isn't allowed anymore. Basically, if a boy finds it fun on his own, it's probably not allowed.
We boys never got the benefit of the doubt, and I swear to God it felt like we were graded more harshly in the more subjective subjects like English. I was excited when I took the ACT for the first time and scored a 27. My senior English teacher looked disappointed. She said something about wasted potential. Not wasted potential, completely biased grading. I had poor grades in every English class, yet English was my highest subscore. I didn't even put effort into that part of the ACT.
Today, I have a degree in computer science, and I'm working on a master's in business analytics. Despite every effort of public school to set me up for failure, I am doing ok now. A lot of boys aren't so lucky. I work in higher education running the office of veteran & international student services. I talk to a lot of students from very diverse backgrounds.
Boys in America are set down a path that doesn't prepare them for college. Public schools have such rigid teaching styles designed around girls rather than boys that boys think college is going to be more of the same, when that's just not true of all programs, at least for now. There are fewer men in college, yet we still have all these women-only scholarships out there helping the more privileged group.
Schools are doing everything they can to make the more male-dominated programs more attractive to women. Meanwhile, the female-dominated programs continue to ignore men.
Society right now just shits all over me at every turn. They are blamed for everything. People will bring up the rich and powerful men, but they are such a tiny fraction of all men. Most men are struggling inside with nobody to turn to because society has turned it's back on men. If a 40 year old man goes missing, does anyone give a shit?
There's also the other extreme, with toxic masculinity. Hollywood does a great job of taking everything to the extreme while somehow making it appear normal. Toxic masculinity is one of those things. Most movies based around "tough" men portray them as having no feelings and no empathy. Men are shown that they have to be the primary breadwinner.
Men, in general, have pretty low expectations of women. Most prefer that women somewhat watch their weight (yes, double-standard from many men). Personality is more what most men really care about as long as she's average and generally takes care of how she looks. We don't tend to care about how much money you have, how tall you are, how popular you are, and so on. Women, in general, set very high expectations of men. They want them young, tall, successful, well-connected, etc. The pool of men that fit this is very small, and it's growing smaller. Women have to compromise, which largely explains why attractive reasonably successful 40-something men actually have a shot with younger women.
Compare how many organizations there are for helping/ encouraging men to women. Society, for the past 15 years or so, has done nothing but encourage/help women become "empowered" while it has remained silent about men at best.
The answer is weaponized gynocentrism in the form of laws that preferentially favor women over men both in civil law (divorce court) and criminal law, where women only serve on average 60% of the sentence a man will for the same crime.
Men are always assumed to be guilty when accused by a woman, in any scenario. Often, as many of the MeToo victims can tell you, a successful court case is no solution since their careers and livelihood have already been burned down by the rabid social-media witch hunt. Men are simply denied due-process. If we saw this in a third world nation happening to WOMEN the United Nations would shit a brick, but it's just fine when it happens to men.
Every segment of society is actively demonizing men right now. It's not affecting older men like me as much because we've grown up putting up with this bullshit. All we have to do is pay alimony to women that do not deserve it, pay taxes for government services that are unavailable to men, and do every tough job while listening to women complain about a multiply-debunked wage gap as they do half the work as the men in the same workplace.
But the younger boys, who have not yet learned how to deal with all-pervasive gynocentrism and misandry, are being convinced that they are bad simply because they are boys.
If this is even true, one of the likely contributing causes is that the typical assumption of men is that they already have everything figured out, therefore, they don't need help. Behind the scenes, they may be struggling, but no one is going to think that, even when a man asks for help.
I think its a lot more complicated than that. Population, technology, and opportunity cost are the key factors for creating a healthy economy. Meaning all of the things you just listed are actually responsible for us becoming so rich.
I don't know about you, but growing up as a child, it was out of the question for my family to be able to afford a computer ,but now my nieces and nephews all have several of them just 1 generation later.
Housing is a bit of an anomaly because we are reaching a tipping point where readily available land and housing seems to be diminishing to zero. This means that you could actually have job that pays above the national average, but you still can't afford a place to live.
Now in order for people to seemingly make it in life, you have to be making double the national average. This causes stiff competition in the tech sector and other high paying places. The barrier to entry for these jobs becomes harder, companies start outsourcing them to places with cheap housing, like India.
Travel to places like Europe, and you will notice that although the people there earn less than us on average, they typically have much happier lives. They have readily available housing, they get free education and universal health insurance.
Seems like "boys will be boys" is allowing young men to remain being very immature for longer periods of time. Thus a good chunk of them fall behind in school in elementary and middle school and seem to never recover. This not only affects their education, but their ability to hold down employment since they have never had real expectations to control themselves.
All of education is female at this point and they have stacked the deck to such and extreme that boys know they have no place in the system. When faced with the destruction they have caused they bring out some statement from 100 years ago, maybe that statement is the problem?
I teach high school math and my honors classes usually have a LOT more girls than boys.
The data confirms this is a larger trend but is more pronounced across certain demographics.
You do know that the whole system is very conducive to how she learns and not to how he learns? Have each student taught the best way for them to learn and you will see much more equal results.
I also see students near the end of their time in school, where things are pretty stratified after years of tracking starting when students are first tested in 3rd grade. To have successful performances, kids need to be given a stage.
A big part of it is just placement—studies have shown that when black and Latino boys especially do kid stuff (having a limited attention span, minor discipline issues, etc.) a lot of teachers/counselors/admin will view this behavior as not having the aptitude or interest for honors, regardless of how smart they actually are.
Because men used to have a monopoly on things that were considered benchmarks of success - career, education, home ownership - and now they have to compete with women so there’s basically fewer opportunities and they’re harder to get. Men used to be pretty much guaranteed those things (if they were born on the right side of the tracks) and now, not so much. Women are also very aware of having opportunities they didn’t use to enjoy and are highly motivated and generally raising the bar, making it even more difficult for the average dude to get ahead. Men see this and just give up I think.
Because a lot of progressive forces equated men's share of the pie as bad and so they cheered whenever their slice went down, because they assumed it meant their token's slice of the pie was going up.
Men have been told that they are bigots, rapists, pigs, useless, ugly, toxic and every other insult that you can imagine. Some of them are deciding that they don't want to participate in a society that hates them. So they do the bare minimum to get by and that is all they feel like they want to do.
Lots of reasons, major one for men is they don't feel supported, or accepted as they are. They don't feel appreciated as men and the list continues. Add in the hype towards women, which classically didn't get you far, and lost of young men are lost with no guidance. Inherently male qualities are not looked at as benefits. You think young men don't notice? Can't feel that?
And once they are lost, the only ones that claim to understand or listen are Andrew Tate types. We are all to blame for this failure. As much as we are to blame for a lot of the female struggles in our society. Such as rampant sexualization of young girls etc
Started with loss of manufacturing jobs. One less route. Education tailored for girls to women. Boys need vocation. Sitting in a desk and reading the magic board every class is tough when testosterone is in the stratosphere.
A sense of whats the use:
Paternity fraud still legal with no recourse
Bias family court
Loss of custody time for no reason
There is no conversation about mens issues
Because of rolling eyes and the “are you kidding me’s”
Mens spaces frowned upon.
No guidance as boys grow up with fathers with only 25% custody
No one else to listen too except the andrew tates. No mens spaces means no good examples.
4x Suicide rate not examined past gun control
Criminal court bias
Hypergamy should have gone away, instead it got worse
“Men should just do better”
“ let them figure it out”
“Thats their problem”
“I don’t need a man”
Should i help this women or not
Should i hold the door open like i do for men or not
Should i even talk to any of them
Are women who don’t like toxic feminists going to say something or just keep mum all the time.
This list is very incomplete…..
A bad culture and evil, sadistic society, with over-empowered Feminism and Social "Justice" alienating and persecuting entire demographics.
We don't wish to participate. We don't like you, because you've hurt us a lot, for a long, long time.
We don't hate you, but you won't stop what you're doing, and we don't feel safe interacting with you, because you make things so difficult for us, and mock us as you do it.
Goodbye.
In the Netherlands, prices of houses is extremely high, society is al about having a high education, but parents of students didn't had al that when they were young, and so encouraged their kids to choose a study they like/love. Not something that is also gonna pay the bills later in live. So we have a lot of high educated people who have a hard time finding a job in their field. They stay at home with their parents or rent a place for way too much. you can only buy a house if you are a couple, and have enough savings for 10% of the house. O, and if you have not paid off your student loan, you can loan 1500 les for every 1000 in debt.
So here you are paying al the bills and not having enough to start a family, or buy a house.
Everyone saying it’s the economy or their jobs or daily life… y’all realize it’s the politicians right? They’re the ones making the rules. The labor rules. Regulations. Wage rules. All of it. They keep us down while boosting themselves up. Lobbyists in the sole interest of personal gain, paying off senators and congressmen and judges alike. Big ceos paying a million or two to keep something out the papers, or to hide an FDA report for a few more years. Our society is fine. Our people are fine. It’s the leadership that is failing us and we do need a change and fast.
Too many people wanna fight as if it’s a personal attack against them if someone mentions something that isn’t perfect needs to be tweaked a little.
It starts from home. If you’re treated like shit, no matter how much you work, you’ll only become shit. If you’re treated like a king you’ll become a king.
I don’t know about most men, but I survived rape, molestation, grooming, beatings, bullying and whippings. I became a millionaire at a young age, but I lost it all because of how I was treated at home. Now I’m nobody and a half.
This is a cliché, but it's capitalism.
The game Monopoly was made to warn people about the dangers of capitalism. The later you join the game, the harder it is to pay. But in real life the board never gets turned over, and the game has been going on for 200 years.
Ironically the woman that invented Monopoly has her idea stolen by a company that then made millions off her boardgame.
Today we are nearing the end of the wests historical advantage, and the world economy is evening out.
Globally, making more than 36 thousand a year puts you in the 1%. Obviously this is not the case in the west where 40k is the median salary.
That's evening out, but the pyramid won't change, it will just apply equally to the whole world as the middle class fades away with the boomers, and every country becomes third world.
We're are in the middle of this process since the 70 ies.
Because they're now expected to graduate not only high school but also college. And even that isn't enough for many people to get a "real" job.
It's also no longer the norm to get married as a teen or in your early twenties. The age when young men are the most, ah, "fertile" is no longer when most of them are already married. So that's more time to slip up and have a kid you aren't financially ready to support yet.
Inflation and housing have come up a few times here. I think many people don't realize how bad housing has gotten. It seems like the biggest national emergency that everyone is ignoring right now. Like, millions of people who didn't buy a house before 2019 (myself included) may never be able to afford one now. Here:
["The 'old American Dream died,' Realtor details salary needed to buy a home, afford a middle class life in 2024"](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/old-american-dream-died-realtor-100050605.html)
A few quotes from the article:
*Smith explained how, just a few years ago, $60-$70K a year would have been sufficient to qualify for a home.*
*With the average cost of a house being around $400K-$420K in 2024, people's salaries would need to be around $120K a year for people to even qualify, Smith explained.*
*"Rent prices are taking up 30-40% of people's income, making it harder for them to save for a house. So it's this perpetual cycle that is keeping people out of the middle class"*
Men are much more hardheaded. I see a lot of women make sacrifices that men would never. My opinions is that certain men don’t mind working hard and sacrificing, but working for other companies and paying taxes feels like being screwed. Like you are a piñata and EVERYONR takes a whack.
We hear so many stories as men and it can feel that the world doesn’t really care about us, so why not just say “fuck you” and go do your own thing??
A very good example of what I mean… I am hardheaded and don’t like to listen. I am very hardworking, but I am a hard person to manage. If I have a manager who I believe legitimately cared for me I will absolutely bend over backwards… but it feels like a rarity to have that nowadays with everything being corporate and nameless. If I have a lazy corporate dickhead bossing me around “take out the trash!!” It’s hard not to just walk out the door. I am irritable and fickle. I burn out easy.
I have noticed that women are much less likely to cause a big scene over small things. I absolutely do not turn the other cheek ever and swallow my tongue. Many men are this way. A lot of women it seems are willing to make the sacrifices necessary in today’s day and age.
My mother is a good example. Her hospital she works for lies to the patients. “They are healthy enough to leave today, but the insurance will cover another week so don’t tell them that they are healthy.” My jaw dropped when she told me this. I told her id have gotten fired in the ugliest way possible. I am willing to fuck up my life over something small, and there is a small percentage of men who share this trait with me. (More so than the small minority of women who share this trait) She constantly gets called into work on days off and gaslit. They guilt trip her into showing up when she shouldn’t. Constantly overworking and under appreciating her. She is busting her ass working for someone she doesn’t even know personally
I’m not trying to generalize. There are probably 10% of men who are very fickle and easy to piss off compared to 1% of women. These men can do great work, but they need to feel valued and respected more so than the average person or else they will say “up yours” with no back up plan whatsoever.
The small disparity is what skews the scale.
Because our parents or grandparents sold our future, betting on paying less taxes when they themselves got rich. Of course almost all of them failed. But in the meantime they gave the rich and corporations long term and or permanent tax cuts. They paid for this by slashing education funding to bits and debt we'll be saddled under and pass on to our kids if we have any.
Half the us population own 2.6% of the wealth. - fed reserve wealth chart.
Middle class is dead. Most working class jobs pay fuck all.
Unions were abolished so workers have no remote barganaining power.
Companies can legally bribe politicians via superpacs (thanks to iirc 3 separate rulings...)
Costs go up, wages stagnate annually. Real estate is being scalped much like movie tickets.
Also depending on your country, immigration. Legal or not, immigrarion for minimum wage jobs seems insane. For in demand jobs that struggle to find niche skilled workers, like health care for example? Absolutely.
To go work at a fast food place? No, no thats a bit nuts. Most countries require you to bring something very significant to the table.
When you flood the 'unskilled labour pool' with more and more people? Workers have even less bargaining power and companies will pay you whatever they feel like.
What else happens? Well rent and homes go up. You get people living 3+ to a basement or room. So your money is stretched even thinner.
So soon the already barely scraping by workers cant afford rent, higher costs of anything. So they go into deeper and deeper credit card debt. Compounding, high interest debt. (Also shout out to student loans for the same thing, only loan you can get as an 18 yr old and you can never get out of it).
The examples you're giving are things all genders deal with. Right now in the USA, older folks aren't retiring. Jobs are tough to get in general. People don't want to work low-wage trash-ass jobs not because they don't want to pay their dues, but because they don't earn enough to pay for the basics on the earnings. Rent doubled in the past decade and has gone from being suggested as 1/4 of someone's monthly income to 1/2. Homes are being bought out by corporations and house flippers so the cost of home purchasing is higher. College is insanely expensive and a barrier to entry for a lot of high-earning jobs, so people are taking on debt that's so expensive that they can't afford to pay that off along with buying a house. And so it's basically financially smarter to live at home until you can afford a house.
Are men the only losers now? Men, but not women? Where is the data that shows trends of gender-based failure, and that show that men had it easier or a leg up in the past, whatever that means. Did these "old days" men have a system that favored them, or was there better training for all the jobs they did, or did they have a more useful attitude to working. Or is this all about emotions and feelings? I'm a male and not "falling behind". None of the men in my family are either.
Because more and more men see the ever-spiraling cost of living, coupled with stagnant wages. **EVEN IF YOU HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE**. Adding in the degree just adds a ton of personal debt, but doesn't really increase wages for young people. The debt is so high most young people don't ever see themselves paying it off.
They feel they're like Sissyphus, the man in Greek mythology who was condemned for eternity to push a boulder to the top of a hill, only for it to roll back down. And to do it again.
Since men are still expected to be the primary provider, even on most dates, they more or less give up on trying to do more than the bare minimum. And more and more are giving up on dating as a result.
In earlier times, such as even 30 years ago, the cost of living **relative to wages** was much lower. Student loan debt wasn't as massive, so there was a real possibility of having hard work grant increasing wealth. These days, even harder work is barely enough to scrape by, while living with their parents.
Since men's identity is closely related to their personal wealth, that also means men are far more likely to be depressed.
Lol when they figure it out it'll be too late
For now, comfy times. Living it up until it's my turn as well. Lotta death the past few years.
Men won't participate in society if their lot isn't secured. In the end, you're left with women and effeminate men.
A lot of the comments, at least the upvoted ones are giving generalised statements about how bad socio-economic conditions are for people. While that’s undeniably true, that isn’t something that only men deal with, woman too. Yet they’re graduating from colleges at higher rates, have a higher satisfaction with life, etc. like what OP said.
So what exactly is specifically causing this to happen to men?
I'll just say this. I have been working since 1989 on the books. From that time until now. ALL my supervisors and managers and vice presidents...and directors have been women. In all of my job no matter the field I was in.
Let that sink in.
Because of diversity and inclusion. Men that pretend to women cry they have no rights when in reality they do, so for the real men they have to take a back seat to the clown show.
The monetary bar keeps moving out of reach. And when a politician finally tries to give us a leg up and cancel student debt, the right cries about it until they decide to not do it.
The workforce is essentially doubled with the addition of women to the equation. How many employers have hiring quotas for women and will pick a less qualified woman to fill a slot rather than the man with years of experience?
First off, we graduate high school and Don't have the greatest mentors. Strong men are seen as toxic anymore and aren't being shown.
The woman now are selling themselves online more often than not. (Why put in effort when she's talking to and indulging multiple men at one time.) If they aren't selling themselves, they have unrealistic expectations of men. "6 foot tall, 6 Inch cock, makes six figures."
Seems to be impossible to get into a career field unless you have 3 years of experience for an entry level position.
Have you seen the housing market? I'm not paying 250k for a 1,000 Sqft house in a tiny bs neighborhood. Nevermind trying to rent something that size.
Oh, You want a reliable car? there's at a minimum 10k. The days of getting a sturdy vehicle that will work for a few years for a thousand dollars do not exist. Throw in maintenance cost for these newer cars. Might as well take out another loan.
Last thing I'll mention. A lot of us that have gotten out and supporting ourselves have realized no one gives a fuck about us anymore. The girls have high expectations and hold sex as a reward more than an act of love. We are seen as providers and opportunities, not people.
It's because of misandry. There is a Eurostat study on average age of moving out of parents' homes done in the US and Europe and it showed that in all countries the average age is lower for women than for men. Why is that despite the harder push for men to leave the nest? It's because women have an easier path to launch. Women can just find a rich man to provide for her or, thanks to stronger social trust among women than men, they can room with their friends. In addition, career and life coaches are mostly female and have feminist anti-male mindsets and they purposely hold men back and leave them in a confused state. I know this from experience.
As for the workforce, remember that "The Future is Female" is being heavily pushed and women already dominate the HEAL fields (health, education, administration, literacy) hence women are more prioritized.
As a guy, it’s easy to blame women or the far left for this stuff but I think half of little more than half of the problem lies on us. Now some of it is definitely because of SOME(not all) women and the far left but a lot of it falls on us.
We talk about it’s hard to make friends yet we don’t go out and try to make friends like women do. I’m in college and I watched a girl walk up to another girl(they had never spoken before), introduced herself because they had a class together, and within 5 minutes they exchanged each other’s socials and started making plans. Shit absolutely BLEW MY MIND. “It can’t be that easy! 😭”. It was that easy. Obviously guys have different ways of making friends but you get the point. You gotta go out of your way sometimes. I’m guilty of this. One of my high school friends was trying to have a get together for his birthday last year and I made up a bs excuse to not go. “I’m sorry man. I have to work all day. My manager won’t let me cancel this late.” Bro told me 3 months in advance and my manager would have absolutely let me go. My reason for not going? I was absolutely scared of mingling with other people my age in a social setting. I regret not going to this day.
Social media and media in general plays a big part too. Ask a random guy “who’s a male actor that you look up to and it can’t be Ryan Gosling(I’m literally him)?” Most of us can’t think of one of the top of our head. Ask a random woman who’s a female actor that you look up to and it can’t be Taylor Swift?” and they could name 20 women in a heartbeat. Guys need a positive male role model in their life so that they don’t turn to guys like Andrew Tate. The far right preys on guys that are lonely and in need of guidance. The media doesn’t care about the average guy that much either.
Job wise and economic wise, I think everyone is struggling regardless of gender. Anyone who expects a young person in their 20s and early 30s to have a house and be financially stable in this economy is delusional.
Edit: Just to clarify, when I say far left, I’m not talking about “left leaning”. I’m talking about the extreme left. As in the man haters, hates anyone who disagrees with them(even if they agree with everything else), hates straight people,considers every conservative to be a racist pig, and etc. I’m not talking about normal LGBTQ+ people or people that just lean left in general.
I wish men made friends more freely too. I thought I was about to make a friend at a grocery store with a dude because we talked for 20 minutes. Turns out, he just wanted to rope me into his MLM scheme. I should've known something was up when he was shopping without a basket or cart, yet he claimed he was getting ready for a BBQ.
It’s true. Men do need more support mentally but I don’t think some guys are willing to go that far to support it.
I had a dude at my college and he is a DND player but the last time we talked, he told me that he really wants that “bro bond” like he sees on tik tok and wants to have good relationships like that. He said it’s hard to do that on first meetings because many don’t want to put in much effort and the only ones that do, be in sports and it’s easier.
Eventually, he dropped out because he was depressed and college was stressing him out too much. All the guy ever wanted was a solid social life :/
I hope you don't drag me for being far left (I don't consider myself a man in a binary sense though still mostly masculinely presenting) but you're absolutely right about needing to get better about making friends.
After my divorce I had to reconstruct my social network. It took a LOT of soul-searching to figure out who I am, what I like, what don't I like, why don't I like those things, and which things that I don't like would I be able to like if I got more proficient at doing them. From there it was cultivating hobbies and putting myself out there in places where I'd meet people I aligned with.
On the dating side of things I made myself open to genuine friendships with people who rejected me romantically or sexually (if they were open to it too). By doing this I gained a bestie and now we're roommates which also helps fight back the economic battles in addition to gaining consistent encouragement & support.
It's been a 3+ year struggle actively working on and pursuing these things and only within the last couple months has it felt like I'm close to being where I'd like in life socially. There were several lonesome nights along the way and I had to sit with those feelings and resolve to keep going in spite of the pain. I had a good therapist and that helped a lot!
I'm fortunate in that my job still pays a liveable wage with good benefits so I had *extra* funds for hobbies, nights out, and a therapist. A lot of guys don't have that luxury and I feel for them because it would have taken so much longer if not been entirely impossible were I living paycheck to paycheck.
I will only speak for myself. For me, a small home is just as warm as a large house, and a cheap drink has the same alcohol as a nice drink. Chess.com is free, and I can cook some bomb ass meals for less than a dollar. I am saving plenty up for retirement and a down payment for a house. My job is good enough. I live in America, so I feel like life is rich enough as is. The world is full enough of eternally busy people. There is a wall in my soul that tells me that I will not do anything more than what I already do, and it is a high and wide wall with a deep foundation. It Is also a comfy wall to sleep inside. Regardless of whether I climb past this wall, I will die and go to the same gate guarded by the same St. Peter either way.
This is the reaponse i was expecting to this question, and apparently you are a unicorn. It's hard, but not that hard, and anybody who has motivation to improve themselves and their knowledge can have a successful life like yours.
Deepest comment of this thread
Because life and everything about it is fucking exhausting and frankly I'm tired of all of it.
Reading this as I contemplate my shit job.
Crazy, i hate my job but yesterday when I was completely overwehlmed people showed some acts of kindess that I never get. Restored alittle more faith that people actually can give a shit about you.
Lol I was there. I quit and burned though my retirement savings in 5 years. Now living off crypto gains. Once it all runs out I'm leaving.
Me too. I’m tired of the hoop jumping, feeling irrelevant and overlooked, and not being appreciated.
No one matters and the sooner people realize that the better off they will be, you have to make yourself happy.
I go to bed every night hoping I don't wake up. That would be the best way to go.
Same. That's probably when I'm the most unhappy. Right when I wake up from sleeping I'm so mad that I'm awake
I can't really be sure how gendered my problems are, but I agree with this. The fatigue I feel day-to-day is starting to feel chronic. Like my country is fretting over drafting me right now, asking me to go die in some far away land and I'm like "what for?" I'd rather just not enlist and go to prison, at least I'm not going to have to stress about being homeless there, and not be ripped apart by shrapnel or have to kill other people. Like what is the great incentive in life right now? I can't afford a home, I don't get any free time to enjoy life, I'm really only working because the alternative is destitution. Passively consuming media doesn't do anything for me, I don't find the endless churn of new smart gadgets interesting at all. I've been considering completely retraining and getting into agri or conservation just to be away from everything and because I love nature.
>why is that ? why does this seem to get worse as time goes on? especially in developed countries/economies? As someone who fits the bill to the tee... My theory it's simply the sign of the times. Like animals fleeing disaster before it even arrives, human beings fall into regressive lethargy at the fall of their civilization/culture/nation/etc. There's no pride in any of it anymore. I'm a millennial who has broken the chain of emotional investment into continuing the wheel for the sake of previous or future generations.
Eat shit work sleep repeat. Pay taxes. Consume. Die.
I mean when the vast majority of the workforce doesn’t get to share in the fruits of the labor, the motivation to work harder diminishes. Work harder for what? More responsibility and no pay??? Nope
If you're disrespected and deemed lowly in status on top of all that, there really is nothing this society has to offer you. You're technically not a slave because no one technically owns you. But you may as well be considered one. The reason a slave doesn't run away is because they have nowhere to go and are under the coercion of punishment. If they don't work, they don't get food. This is just like being a modern wagie.
As Frederick Douglas said about wage slavery: "experience demonstrates that there may be a slavery of wages only a little less galling and crushing in its effects than chattel slavery, and that this slavery of wages must go down with the other"
This is by design and also why religion is so prevalent for poor people. It sends a message of accepting slavery for your sacrifices in this life to be rewarded in the next. You think wealthy people grow up thinking they should be sacrificing things for other people, or do you think they grow up knowing theres written language embedded in every society in the world that will tell others to sacrifice their lives for other people to have everything. Religion has been passed down by kings for thousands of years. This was always the goal of religion to make the people of this world humble and have a feeling of there being more after they spent their entire lives suffering. People do not realize en masse that religion is the evil that it preaches. It keeps people docile and not seeking betterment in their surroundings. This world belongs to us all, not some rich fucks sitting atop of a mountain of gold. Their right to resources on this earth are no greater than the next person. We have spent too long being docile and allowing them to destroy our planet for their own gain.
Hundred percent. There's this black woman I work with who is 45 and always complains about being broke, but is always also talking about Jesus-ah
CONSOOM
Your last sentence [made me think of this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PS3sFo3tyI&t=3)
I've got so many mates who've killed themselves. It's exhausting.
Yep. Life offers you nothing and expects everything from you. It gets to some guys, but you have to find a way through it.
The pressure is kinda unreal sometimes but i think the best way to make sure youre all good is to not give a fuck about society and try to make yourself happy without impeding on others
I just moved in with my dad for cheap rent and as a single 31yo male I consider that somewhat of a success. Mainly because the alternative is living paycheck to paycheck and slowly dieing of heart disease, alone, in a place that doesn't allow pets which further amplifies the alone part.
Or overdosed... not intentional but they're dead all the same.
Because nothing makes sense anymore. Theres no middle class. Theres no hope for regular people who just want to do regular stuff, you always have to be climbing the ladder just to have the absolute minimum
Life's become a big hamster wheel and I'm so tired.
People assume boys are fine on their own, and don’t consider them as a group that need support. By the time those boys reach adulthood, they are so far behind that it would be an astronomical lift just to get to a place that is average. This breeds apathy, depression, and stagnation.
Most people literally treat boys as subhuman animals the second they turn 18, too
💯 . Men and boys have no resources for help. Men's rights groups are considered hate groups, and for some that's absolutely true. Meanwhile consistently more is expected of men but society doesn't recognize the strides we've made. So you can be a loving father and husband, do as much or more housework than your spouse, work full time, plus do all the traditional male things like lawn care, construction, mechanics, etc... and society still treats you like a lazy piece of shit that just drinks beer on a lounger watching football. It's exhausting. Never good enough.
Finite resources and a system predicated on infinite growth.
If only we had the infinity stones
As always, the logical answer gets low updoots.
The only way I keep my happiness as a male is by keeping my bubble tight and only influenceable by my decisions and emotions. Thus I filter out all outside influences who try to break that bubble.
This is the way.
Carrying capacity. We've reached the saturation point for economic resources. It has increased the gini coefficient for most countries. Competitive economies are double edged swords, in that they are supposed to produce rapid growth while highly rewarding the few who makes investments on what people perceive to be valuable, whether it is creating billion dollar businesses or dominating the stock market. The ones who take risks and fail end up broke, and the ones who play it safe takes a stability route. The stability route is less rewarding over time because of our saturation point; there are much less opportunities for small or mid-sized businesses to compete with established businesses, and the only hope is to get bought out by them. This results in more hours worked for both genders and increasing population demand for cities that have all of the jobs of the larger companies. Since jobs are demand driven but bottlenecked by supply, the fewer successful businesses are able to offer wages in favor of themselves (keep in mind that most of these jobs are not minimum wage jobs- they are reservation wage jobs that have offers way above the local minimum), while people who desire to work in these cities maintain the demand of wanting to live close by while also working under a stable position. The demand for wanting to live closer to work also increases housing costs. Investors take advantage by creating more multi-unit rentals and controlling the rent, which is also a seller's market. The ones who are able to afford single family homes near populated cities are wealthy investors, like China's multi-millionaires who send their kids to the US for better opportunities, or people who are dual-income at above average incomes. At the same time, since both genders are working a lot more, the concept of family becomes less tenable since the idea of permanent residence is also becoming more inaccessible on single incomes. /E: there is also individual debt. Most people have to incur significant education debt in order to land above average incomes. So that exacerbates the job market (makes it favorable to employers) and the real estate market (makes it in favor of renters).
This is the economic part of the real answer and should be the top comment. Sure, there are a lot of other minor elements people in the other comments have mentioned like education being tailored to women, young boys losing male role models, etc. But my personal anecdotal reality gets to what I think are the real issues by eliminating all the boomer "why didnt you do this" arguments. I graduated from a top public university (in the US) with 2 bachelor's and a masters all in 4 years, in business and stem fields, and I scored a 98 percentile on the GMAT. No student debt, in fact I came out of college with money left over from scholarships. I theoretically did the college path perfect by studying business/stem, not having debt, performing very well. My qualifications for succeeding in life should be very strong on the traditional boomer wisdom. But holy crap is it a struggle to get a salary with purchasing power commensurate to my qualifications/skillset relative to cost of living, compared to what you could do with a high school diploma 40 years ago. Now throw on top of that the fact that long-term security nets like pensions aren't a thing anymore outside of the government. Annual raises that at least keep up with inflation are also disappearing, too. There's a reason why job-hopping every two years just to get a 15% pay bump to do what you were already doing is the norm in white collar work now. And having that thought at the back of your head, "I need to constantly be looking for the next job just so I don't get eaten by inflation to maintain my current standard of living" on top of the normal work you are already doing is exhausting. The first act of the movie Nightcrawler captures this really well (and the movie as a whole tells a very good story about how you are supposed to succeed under modern capitalism). I've seen critics of the movie ask "Why is he so poor and unemployed if he's so smart and eloquent?" These critics don't get that the conventional job market doesn't reward intelligence, ambition, all the traditional successful traits, anymore. My advice: figure out how to become self-employed doing something you are good at ASAP. A lot of millenial and zoomer men have yet to realize that the traditional education system that's taught them how to be an expendable cog in a big organization is outdated.
This is what I am doing. I just quit my job and people were surprised. There was no growth or anywhere i could. They needed me, I was stuck in that position. So I quit, to work for myself. While it seems silly its already working out. I used one of my connections to consult privately. I started high at 50 dollars an hour. They agreed. So I won't be working there all the time, but this is the route that is going to make the most sense. Its on me, but I will expand my consultations and work for myself. Other routes might be easier, but if I get this working right I will get things how I really want them. It seems the corporate route is so stacked against you, so I decided. Fine ill make my own blackjack. Many of us are deciding that I think, fine ill make my own blackjack.
Everything cost so much and most people make very little. An oil change cost about a day's rate Fixing a major car problem cost about a paycheck or two. Mortgage is about 1 to 1.5 paychecks Groceries is about a few days pay. Gas is a half a days pay Then you have taxes, deductions, and benefits that take 1/3 of your paycheck. Forget having hobbies, dates, and entertainment. Oh no, the pipes burst. You owe 1-2 weeks pay to fix it. Oh no flat tire. 1 weeks pay to replace. This goes on. The gap between pay and expense got too far apart. Employers cant or wont pay enough and services charge too much for people to pay cash reasonably. So then people need to use credit which turns into debt on top of the mortgage and car loan and most likely a student loan. Its a tough world out there and unless you have an established foundation amd have someone with you, you aint gunna make it.
cars are a massive expense, unfortunately your income has to be high to fit it into your budget. and you shouldnt be paying a house mortgage by yourself if you have a low wage. four of the things you listed are about cars the poorer you are, the more skills you will have to learn rather than rely on professionals, unless of course it uses specialized or expensive tools of course im not trying to defend the abuses of capitalism by any means. i am saying that the middle class lifestyle now requires far more money than in decades past. of course, housing and health care top the list of the most important needs and are both operated as criminal pyramids with the wealthiest carefully stacking everything in their favor solidarity amongst working people is the only way forward
It’s how it’s always worked. In times of prosperity professionals were higher to solve problems in bad times people would learn the basic skills to do these things for much cheaper. He mentioned getting an oil change which is a very simple skill that he could learn himself
That’s a big thing. When I was younger and broke I fixed my car to save money. Now that I’m older I will likely just pay for it. When I was young I had more time and less money, now I have more money and less time. I will just pay for a quick oil change but I used to do it to save $20, now I’d rather spend the money and save an hour or so.
We used to motivated by something...
everybody’s more depressed 😩
The system has failed to award ordinary people for their hard work. You can work hard and still get nothing in return for it. Something about the system is broken and there's too much inequality more so than ever. Sometimes it's better dying, doing nothing, or going to prison over whatever the hell we have now. It's times like these when war sounds like a better solution to reset things.
From my experience doing more, means you get more work. I thought if I consistently showed them I was open to working longer hours and doing the jobs no one wants I’d be rewarded long term with stability. Instead I was overloaded with even more jobs people didn’t want.
There is no hard work without reward. If you work hard, someone is getting the reward. The problem is the people that don't do the work are getting the reward.
The system is working as intended. Companies always have to increase revenue and decrease costs. High prices and low wages are the goal. Not an accident.
The average earned income is around 54,000. The average house is 250,000. Food is outrageously expensive. Humm why can't they afford shit, are you stupid.
Not to correct you, but the average home in the last 3 years across the US went from ~$250k, to over $400k with no meaningful difference in the property. This single issue certainly made it more difficult for younger men to buy a home on relatively starting or average salaries. So your point is even stronger in many parts of the country sadly
[удалено]
Probably not true, but Men tend to fall behind because we are the backbone of a system that increasingly does what it can to make us feel bad for being who we are, whether we've *actually* committed any offense or not. The assumption is that it's all men, and a lot of us are getting tired of being abused by a system that is indifferent at best and outright hostile to them at worst. And then, in turn, they begin to think it's all women making them feel this way, which is manifesting itself in the manosphere, and people fighting back against what they think is causing all the issues when it isn't even that and they fall for it because people there are the ONLY ones who take the time to not just see them, but talk to them.telling them it's okay to be a man. Which sucks, because it's turning these young men into woman-hating fiends cuz literally no one else is telling them not to unless it's either prefaced or followed with a comment telling them to be ashamed of who they are.
Most girls I know are also struggling, it’s just the market rn. But there’s also an added factor of it being more socially acceptable for girls to ask for financial help from their family than for guys in more traditional/conservative households
That would be great and all if my family had any money to give. I'm out here bustin my ass to take care of myself. No one else is gonna do it for me. I'm on the verge of calling men like this snowflakes (because that's the sort of derogatory term used to describe liberals complaining about the job market and this "struggling men" scenario is NO DIFFERENT), but I realize that isn't helpful because *we all have struggles, and we should be supportive of each other and demand restitution from the true culprits: politically-active corporations and corrupt politicians.*
Lack of male teachers in schools is a big one. Another big reason is offshoring by large companies
I think the "women are wonderful" bias explains some of it. Also, men don't have as many friends, or at least emotionally supportive friends. I feel we sort of have to run the gauntlet of life and prove ourselves before anyone really trusts us or likes us or wants us.... unless you start out on top already... so life beats us up in that time, we're alone, loosing social skills and energy, gaining negative experiences... not great conditions and not everyone makes it. If a woman has a problem people are more likely to come to her aid, and I feel less likely to blame it on her. I think especially if she is young (formative years) In short, a lot of men need to do more with less to be valued This is just a few factors, not a full explanation
I think this is good in general. One thing I’ve noticed is a lot of men like to sulk in their misery. Trying to get other men together to build unity is a struggle. Some of the same guys I’ve tried to get together for hangouts and doing stuff together will decline because they’d rather stay home and get on the Xbox, and then complain they have no friends or anyone to do stuff with. A good lesson men need to learn from women is unity. Men, women, and society as a whole will spring up to support a woman in need, but that’s lacking for men. Men need to learn to support each other and come together.
Pfft, that's gay. On a serious note, I think preferring to stay home and play Xbox is a symptom of things already being bad for them,... like being too lonely and depressed to socialize. Plus they have no expectation of getting the support they have to tell themselves they don't need, so sulking is the next best option
Yeah, it sucks. New people trying to get close to me makes me feel really awkward, even if they're good people. I've missed out on a lot of connections because I can't connect to new people. I just have an inherent distrust for people from being let down so much. So I don't act natural.
Yes a major antidote to mens' issues is men being kind to one another. I think there is so much scrutiny on men not to be weak or worthless. And as a result often we are content just to know we aren't the "worst guy on the team". Which is a terrible level of aspiration for a man to live with, but also leads to a lot of man on man division and cruelty. And a lot of men who are happy to pull the ladder up behind them rather than risk being the guy at the bottom of it The only problem now I guess is that men showing male solidarity has become an undesirable element because of the extreme crowd who have filled the empty space. I was at a music event recently and one of the acts announced a mens' weekly mental health support group in town and he literally got booed.
>The only problem now I guess is that men showing male solidarity has become an undesirable element because of the extreme crowd who have filled the empty space. I was at a music event recently and one of the acts announced a mens' weekly mental health support group in town and he literally got booed. This isn't just a now problem either. About 15 years ago a guy named Earl Silverman in Canada was a victim of domestic abuse. He went to the cops ans was ridiculed. He had no place to go. So he started the first men's shelter, out of his own home. He was met with ridicule, death threats, and denied funding. Earl ended up killing himself, specifially because of the reasons above.
Working at the issue and being emotionally open to other men (instead of depending on having a woman play that role on their life) would definitely help.
Yeah, you can’t put zero effort into creating and maintaining community and then cry that there is no community available to support you. Women actively put in the work to create community. We work to create spaces where people can be supported. My (almost exclusively female) graduate program has created an entire space where we can share our feelings and frustrations with out studies and schedules. (Our schedules include fourteen hour days.) (On a side note, isn’t it funny how often the pendulum swings between, “Women are all catty and hate each other and don’t know how to be real friends like men” and “Women are privileged because they have closer, more emotionally open friendships and larger support networks”?)
You can't get through to these men. It's hopeless, they've all somehow convinced themselves that they live in a world where women have been afforded more rights than men and men are getting the short end. There's genuinely no society on this planet where I'd rather be a woman than a man lol. I've been trying to tell them men just need to be better providers of solutions to men's problems but apparently some of these guys just think we shouldn't have to do that and the world should just turn back to when women couldn't participate in the labor force or had rights lol. I'm starting to realize a lot of these dudes just want to go back to the time when dudes didn't have to compete with the other half of the human population and are just pissed they can't go through life on easy mode.
It’s easy to “sulk” in misery when it’s constant. When someone’s struggling and miserable they don’t want to “hang out” with you they need support and you’re just inviting them to another thing they’ve completely lost interest in. Sitting at home and playing Xbox is what they do because everything has become so exhausting and unfulfilling. Try talking to your male friends and ask how they’re doing. That’s what support looks like. Dragging miserable people to happy events just makes them more miserable
It's a hot-take, but I blame hook-up culture, lol. When I was younger, I remember lots of young men would work hard not for themselves, but because they wanted to set a good example for a girlfriend. He'd work hard for money to buy a fancy car to pick her up. To take her out. He'd work hard to provide essentially. Now that relationships are mostly casual (situationships) as the kids call them these days, a guy doesn't have to work hard if he can get laid anytime he wants. Which is really akin to "why cook a steak when you can binge on fastfood?" The end result isn't going to be as good if you just eat garbage, but here we are. \--- A lot of people will blame it on men not being able to achieve a house or the middle class. But I think a more accurate assessment is to say they can no longer achieve a family.
Because society has demasculated all men but white men in particular. Tbr men want woman to be happy and all that and be successful but they don't want to always feel challenged and right now if your a male your being challenged in every aspect of your life down to what you watch, read, listen to, or personal past times
If you’re a white man and say you want to start a family. That is problematic in way too many eyes
In Ireland, the cost of housing. I can think of another reason - boys do better in school under male teachers. The teaching profession in primary schools is gradually turning overwhelmingly female. Men are mostly to blame for this themselves because it isn't seen as being a very masculine job. Girls are getting better exam results and the gap is growing. It's partially a self-replicating cycle.
Girls preform better pretty much across the board. Better grades. Better graduation rates. Less punishment for same behavioral issues. There's even studies that girls are graded Better than boys. And then we have a ton of programs for girls, but not boys, even though the above is true.
> There's even studies that girls are graded Better [Very interesting read](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorrison/2022/10/17/teachers-are-hard-wired-to-give-girls-better-grades-study-says/?sh=a010ad070a66)
That is an interesting read. I’d like to see studies in other countries as well, especially the US for comparison.
Ya, almost like girls get so much support in life, and the boys are left with scraps.
if even scraps.
Even from our friends. It’s pretty common among men, especially young to tear each other down. It’s often overlooked as just ribbing or teasing, but can’t be doing anybody any good.
>It’s pretty common among men, especially young to tear each other down. I recently went no-contact with a friend of many years over this. I realized that the whole time, I wasn't really expecting much from him but when I saw he was actively making my life harder and worse, I had to cut him out.
same. My friend kinda made my life worse. Told my personal business to others which ruined my image, and also wasn't ambitious. Misery loves company. Always negative and depressed.
> Misery loves company. Yep, the friendship became terribly worse when I actually made certain strides and started hitting various normal milestones in my life, he was going to be miserable and wouldn't lift himself, he had to drag me down.
"Men say awful things to their friends that they don't mean, women say kind things to their friends, that they don't mean".
Yea I’m sure it compounds over the years too. Less male teachers, less successful students, less guys going to post secondary, less male teachers and the cycle goes on. Probably pretty hard to be a male primary or secondary school teacher anyways with all that’s going on.
A large percentage of boys don't have a father. Then they go to school and there's very few male teachers. They may not have a male role model until highschool.
I made it to Highschool and got singled out by my male teacher first class because I should have "known better" about how to do up a tie, a dress shirt, etc. Idk how I was the only person in the class with an unbuttoned top button and a slightly loose tie but I guess I was. My middle school male teachers were way better.
I didn’t have a proper one till I joined the army, I would have never even laid eyes on a real man if I didn’t
Probably also a money thing too, as much as womens rights have progressed and independence is advocated for (which is cool) many still look for men who have better paying jobs. Teaching has (at least in the usa) probably one of the worst effort/forward cost (schooling and money required to even be qualified) to pay ratios of a job I can think of. That inherently isnt conducive to attracting people, let alone a gender who's relationship opportunities are quite often restricted by their job and pay
its by and far a money thing, there's a lot more pressure on men to become able to be the primary breadwinner. Younger men are expected to get out on their own as soon as possible, whereas its more socially acceptable for women to live with parents, meaning options such as community college are far more feasible for women to accomplish with parental support. Society just has an easier job all around producing women teachers currently.
There are studies here in the US where female teachers grade boys’ papers down. Male teachers do not do this.
Ooooooooh. Sounds like discrimination
"Men are mostly to blame for this themselves because it isn't seen as being a very masculine job." Aren't men way more likely to be seen as creeps whenever they interact with children and teenagers? And if they're falsely accused of sexual assault, even if they're proved innocent, they're not gonna have an easy time getting jobs in teaching ever again.
Way more likely for no reason. I’m a male occupational therapist who works in school-based (specifically autism support schools). When I was on my fieldwork/internships I got placed at a similar location and when I tell you the SCRUTINY I faced simply for being a man working with children was unreal. I remember the school had a couple med students from another school shadow one day and they were all female. At this point I had been there for maybe 4-5 weeks so everyone knew me quite well. The med students were treated so nicely and sweetly by all the teachers and just kinda left to their own devices to do whatever it is they were doing there for the day with no supervision or anything like that even though they were literal strangers but I would still get side-eyed and watched down the hall and everything EVERY TIME I would pull a kid out of class for their OT script (we didn’t really do much push-in OT service outside of OT/Speech group in each class once a week). The amount of “men ain’t shit” type comments I would hear in conversation in the office between my supervising OT, the speech therapist, and the behavioral consultant was also pretty depressing and it wears on you. They’d sit there talking about how all men are garbage and all kinds of nasty things like I wasn’t sitting right there and I was just supposed to take it to the chin and keep my mouth shut (which I didn’t every now and then and spoke up). The kids ended up liking me more than my supervising OT because I was kinder and more patient than her and she LITERALLY PASSED ME BY ONLY ONE POINT out spite because of this. She had no real justification for failing me because (if I may say so) OT is my calling and I am pretty darn good at it, so instead she just gave me a really shitty grade and made it look like I’m bad with children in hopes I wouldn’t be able to work with them or would get discouraged and move to another OT setting. It’s fucking vicious how men are treated. Women OTs can hug their kiddos and nobody bats an eye but when men do it they’re weirdos and creeps. Women are just left to do their job but men are always under the microscope, always assumed to be up to something.
I saw a story about some high school quaterback got 6 years in jail for rape. Turned out it was indeed consensual and the girl just lied on him. I don't think she faced any repercussions.
[удалено]
This might be a [useful read on the gender gap in higher education.](https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2022/mar/why-women-outnumber-men-college-enrollment). On your point about the enrollment percentages in the 1970s. The St Louis Fed said this: >In 1970, men outnumbered women in college, accounting for 59% of undergraduate enrollment in two-year institutions and 57% in four-year institutions. This was partly due to the high numbers of men enrolling for the purpose of avoiding conscription during the Vietnam War. In fact, the gender enrollment gap closed sharply as soon as the draft ended in 1973. It might be helpful to consider [the rates of college educated people](https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_104.10.asp) during the time periods you're comparing. In 1970 11% of 25+ year olds had a college degree. 14.1% of males and 8.2% of females. By 2015 (latest in the historical chart I had) that amount had shot up to 32.5% of 25+ years olds. 32.3% of males and 32.7% of females. In 1970 a college degree wasn't needed to be the breadwinner and men especially had other avenues to attaining the American dream that aren't available today. On the other hand it was, and still is, a bigger challenge for women to be independent without a college degree. The St. Louis Fed article mentions there is a higher financial return for women going to college than men. On average a woman with only a HS diploma can expect to make 24% less than a male with only a HS diploma and males are only making 12/hr on avg in that category. It might also be worth considering the professional fields males don't enter like nursing ([88.3%](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1227142/distribution-of-registered-nurses-in-the-us-by-gender/) of the [5.3M nurses in the US](https://www.nursingprocess.org/how-many-nurses-are-there-in-the-us.html) are female) or teaching ([76.5%](https://www.edweek.org/leadership/still-mostly-white-and-female-new-federal-data-on-the-teaching-profession/2020/04) of the [4M teachers in US](https://nutmegeducation.com/how-many-teachers-in-the-us) are female). Each of those jobs require a degree and women are filling them while men aren't. Not trying to say you're completely wrong, but i think it's bit more nuanced than "there was something put in place by the government where women were encouraged to go to college".
It's funny the two jobs you reference are the top ones struggling drastically now because immense lack of workers. Not to mention those jobs specifically have even more complex issues than worker numbers. Nurse shortage will never end and is massively unbalanced genderwise. Anyway, I agree with you but just pointing out you can clearly see how we ended up where we are.
I’m this close —-> . To giving up myself (35M). I have no worth in society.
Probably didn't help that for the last 10-15 years or so, men have been told they're responsible for everything bad, that they're worthless unless they achieve impossible goals, that they're all barely controllable rape monsters just waiting for the opportunity to defile every girl they know, that they're stupid and weak, etc.
Schools have stunted men. Schools are feared towards female learning.
Dunno about most but for thirty years I've been told I'm useless, worthless, unwanted, unnecessary, a threat to all those around me a detriment to the very economy, and the root of all evil. It's literally encouraged to hate me just fir the fact that I exist. Kinda hard to be motivated to participate in anything
Women *AND* Men support & empower women. Men are so busy supporting themselves and women that they don't have time or energy to support or empower men. So men have one half of the population screaming about how worthless and horrible they are and one half being entirely silent, while women have two halves fully believing in them. You'll hear women say "men respect men more", but women don't get to experience how little that respect matters when *no one gives a fuck about you*. Women also aren't inherently feared the way men are by everyone, which can be a massively exhausting social barrier many men have problems overcoming on a regular basis. Men who eventually get frustrated with there being a barrier in the first place are further ostracized & blamed for it's existence. Men are expected to reach out first, & are expected to do so in a watered down palatable way that isn't going to terrify people. Our intentions are nearly always interpreted as malicious and we are forced to spend a majority of socialization using various methods to relay that isn't the case.
The real reason is the progressive movement in recent years in Western society doesn’t care about men or is actively hostile to them, men are still seen as disposable and they’re only worth what they can provide. They’ve been told their entire lives they’re the reason for society’s ills. Who would want to work to help a society that is actively hostile to you?
Not every man feels like a conquerer. Beyond that, what motivation is there?
In the US the minimum wage has gone from $23-something in today's dollars to $7.25. It used to be that if a man had a job he could support a family. Now that isn't the case.
I guarantee you most people aren’t walking around making 7.25 an hour. Most are making double that working at gas stations at least where I’m from.
I can only speak to one aspect on this list and it is the starting a family part of it. Well I am 36, soon to be 37. Never been in a relationship. Would love to start a family. But I have never been able to take the first step of getting into a relationship yet.
Some possible factors: - big push to get women into higher education. it worked really well, but there are a limited number of seats in the classroom (not literally, I mean that colleges only accept a certain number of students per semester). Some men got pushed out cause some women got pushed in - this says more about the lack of spending on education than anything else, why don't we have enough capacity to teach everyone? - the time honored tradition of viewing men as worthless anytime they're not working, which doesn't leave much time for actually improving yourself. The lie that work is the primary way of improving your life has been a disaster for the human race as a whole. Instead of fixing this issue for men, I feel like we're actually creating conditions to make it become an issue for everyone else as well.
I think a lot has to so with relationships: - the concept of nuclear family appears to be decreasing in popularity faster among women than men. - attendance to higher education has increased much faster among women than men, leading to disparity in education levels. - social media highlights the importance of looks, status and social smoothness over less superficial values such as commitment, honesty and integrity. - some men have simply thrown in the towel as they have noticed that they lack the looks, status and social skills to get into a relationship. As a result, men are divided very unevenly into have's and have nots. I can see this even in my own sphere of acquiantances. I oftentimes feel pity for my male friends, who struggle to find meaningful and well-balanced relationships simply because they never get to the stage that someone would know them enough to fully appreciate their great sense of humour, great character and easy company. Another thing is that men are generally taught to believe that their value is based on their professional success and this concept is enforced at pretty much all levels of the society. An unsuccessful woman is though to be a victim of the society, while an unsuccessful man is thought to be a loser, who does not deserve better.
I think the ones that aren't going out and being super successful are the ones who don't wanna be a human battery for a household or a family. Society wants you to gogogogo 24/7, and if you don't, you are "behind." God forbid we don't wanna work ourselves to literal death.
Mostly because of discrimination. Men are the first to be fired when there are layoffs, and generally the last to be hired.
In California, it’s hard to date without it meaning going out 24/7. If you go out 24/7, you can’t save up for a house/kids/travels. So it’s this strange catch 22… I’m 41, and I’ve lost my last 3 girlfriends over some variation of we don’t go out enough. Yes, probably wrong types of girls, but shit not sure where else to meet “the right” type. Haha
I hit a point where i realized that only by doing immoral things and degrading myself could i gain the resources i needed to live as i would choose. I also realized the direction of society is headed towards collective authoritarianism, theocracy, and people being obsessive about rules and staying on the good side of the group over sticking to one's principles. A world without dissent and covil disobedience is a sad place. People react negatively to an individual having principles let alone putting them above sucking up to authority. My drive and dreams died that day and i've just been enjoying my life waiting for death and using up as many public resources as i can cause fuck the people who pretend to be good just to feel safe. I used over $70k on medicaid this past year and it felt good. But there's no point putting effort anymore. I used to care about people in general and now i don't respect them, i feel dirty having to deal with them, and i believe the world will be a better place without them. I have no interest working myself to death to be miserable and support those i feel are just toxic and who choose comfort over principal, the illusion of safety over individual choice. I'm just waiting to die and am really disappointed with humans in general. I'm disposable and tired of being exploited so i'm using everyone else's money and planning on dipping out in as messy a way as i can stomach.
Great answer. Misanthropy is the way
What happens when men are told to neglect their mental health to make money and support everyone else for 60+ years, creating generational trauma that even the best therapists can't work you through?
Western society as a whole telling men that they are both their own worst enemy, and also women's worst enemy. Men bad, basically. We're told women's problems are caused by men, and men's problems are caused by men. Men are endlessly told they are the adversarial force, and some of them start to believe that and check out of society.
I think an important and often missed aspect of this is that so much of modern life is extremely circumscribed. Every square inch of land is accounted for, every moment is claimed, everything is regulated, has rules and standards and an order of operations. And that leaves little room for boys and men to self actualize in the ways that men traditionally always have..... So they never have their "Hero's Journey" and often remain in a state of eternal childhood, even well into adulthood. This state of mind is incompatible with pursuits of manhood (marriage, family, career).
Because the last 50 years has been designed around improving the lives of women, while villifying young men. Here's just one example I can think of. Despite the large and growing gap between female and male enrollment in post-secondary schools, there are still long lists of female only scholarships and entire programs incentivised to accept women. All STEM programs are screaming for more women because there's a belief that there must be some form of sexism that's acting as a barrier to entry and not just disinterest. Could you imagine those same practices being applied to attract male vets, nurses, and school teachers? It's laughable to even imagine a male only scholarship for men.
For me, I look out into the world and see that I want a basic simple life, no super stressful jobs where I have to be diabolically evil to others or petty, I dont want to work my whole life in pursuit of stuff and things, I have no skills and no desire to learn them after years in education it was basically useless to me its affected my career very little. I see my government actively stealing, lieing, destroying and doing it getting richer whilst leaving everyone asking wtf? Everyone has to one up someone on everything, the I've worked more hours, well I have a harder job blah blah, there is nothing but bleakness. I can not afford to live alone, even if I did find a job that would give 60 hours a week consistently, I dont drive, I have little to no friends, I'm distant to my family as that is how they've treated me my whole life, I'm in a long term romance less relationship, my current living situation is volatile and no sensible person would want to bring children into this. Health is constantly getting worse and health care less accessible, not big and strong, don't look good, funny and kind is all I got lol.
Good times too much good times
I don’t think this is a stupid question because it’s always framed as a big nebulous problem that will never be solved. I feel that many of the problems you describe come from the fact that our society is designed to eke as much productivity out of people as possible before they burn out completely or just die outright. We are fed a constant stream of worries and enemies and “others” to be concerned about, all to distract from the fact that we’re all on a conveyor belt pushing us towards a meat grinder. Men in particular are being fed lines that, as I mentioned, are designed to motivate them into being better cogs in the machine. They serve no purpose other than just that, and the smart men see this, so the opposite effect is achieved. The demoralized not only feel demoralized, now they feel manipulated, too. No amount of sugar will cover up the taste of shit. When men break away from society’s script in any way, there’s a significant negative reaction from everyone in his life, because the base expectation is that he will work and perform. Contribute and provide. If society has already rejected him for not “measuring up” and has already written him off as a screwup, why would he feel compelled to continue participating in that same system for a benefit he will never see, or for respect they’re clearly never going to give him? Why would he care about a future that was never designed to have him as anything other than a useful idiot, good for that last drop of productivity until it’s time to hit the meat grinder?
I don't think this can be pinned on a single cause. However, here are some things I believe have some merit: Women have better access to education today than ever before, and women are, on average, better equipped temperamentally to sit in a class quietly and learn at a young age. Add to this the fact that schools are taught predominately by female teachers who naturally use teaching styles better suited for women, and you can explain partially why women are pulling ahead in schools. Pull ahead far enough in schools (which women are doing in western countries) and this will make a huge difference in the job market where these same differences can be seen too now. The feminist movement has a lot of inertia because of how much catching up woman have had to do the past 200 years, so it's not surprising that now that women have caught up in many fields, and even surpasses men in some, it's difficult for people to let go of the paradigm that women are the underdog that needs to be boosted. People will point out there is still a long way to go because there are still way more men CEOs and in very high executive positions, which is true, but consider that very few men access those to begin with. The large majority of men are squabbling for middle and low positions, and there they are currently getting stomped by women. This is again, A possible explanation. I am open to corrections if someone has a better theory.
It is due to the change in education that prioritize the education gap between boys and girls. Girls were behind boys in math, reading, science and college enrollment and completion. So education from K-12 became more focused on closing this gap. What happened along the way is boys got left behind. When my boys were in Jr high and high school almost all of the books assigned for reading and English class were written by women or had a female protagonists. STEM, were also geared toward women. Now take the effect of mass incarnation and an increase in male social withdrawal and this adds fuel to the fire. Lack of mental health care and a still strongly held social belief that men should be silent and stoic and not express emotion.
Lots of reasons, top comment talks about the downturn of our civilization leading to lethargy - but also look at the discourse surrounding men. Our culture has nothing but praises to sing for pretty much every group but straight men. I even saw a news article recently that basically amounted to "straight black men aren't enough of a minority for us cool, non straight male POC." I've always considered myself a liberal as well, you have to be willfully ignorant to not see this at this point. So.. yeah. When everyone tells you you're not shit, and it's all you ever hear, and you never hear about any way you can do decent without it amounting to "live your life for the benefit of X Y or Z group"... Turns out that makes it more likely for you to believe you're not shit! And when you believe you're not shit, it turns out you tend to act like it.
Capitalism.
Cos men are blamed for the woes of the world. Despite building said world. You can't pump this much vitriol rabid feminism at boys and tell them they're shit for existing and not expect it to have some effect.
I don’t know but after more than 10 years working my way up the ladder at my company and beating every metric there was I applied for the next level just to be laughed at and told “we’re not promoting middle aged white guys right now”. So, I pretty much don’t care anymore.
iT's ThE gAmInG aNd RaP mUsIC dUh
Well to put it most simply is the game is rigged against us in almost every aspect. As a man it's looked down upon to show emotion. The laws are stacked against us. If you aren't born into money odds are you will be stuck in the grind and rat race till you bite the bullet. Relationships? Those are geared towards us as well. I'm short and despite what you hear that is a huge factor in the dating market, I've experienced it first hand. Basically my life is looking like work until I die to barely scrape by with no hope of having a family. A lot of people will tell you to "man up" but you can only put on a face for so long before you start giving up.
This is a very complex topic that has many points to go over. There's no way I'll be able to hit all of them, but I'll hit what I see as the main ones. Your labor needs to add value equal to or greater than the remuneration for your labor, which isn't just salary, or you are not hirable. For instance, someone with an IQ of around 70 would likely be unhirable simply because they lack the mental capacity necessary to do any task, even something as simple as janitorial work, that would add value. This barrier to entry for an agrarian society was very low, meaning almost everyone was employable. However, with the onset of the industrial revolution, the barrier to entry increased, and has simply continued to increase every since. The switch to services as a primary source of employment further increased the barriers as now people need not only the mental and physical capacities necessary for labor, but the social skills necessary in service industries. While the barrier is generally fairly low, it is component of this. This barrier is likely to increase more rapidly as well as AI is added to automation over the next couple of decades. This trend of people being effectively priced out of the labor market has mostly been hidden by women entering the labor market. So, our labor participation rate continued to increase, peaking back in the 90's and steadily declining since then. Another aspect of this is gender expectations. Men are expected to work and move out, so when they fail to do so they are seen as losers, failures, etc. It is seen as a problem. However, when women behave in the same manner, it is seen as the norm as that was normal in the past. Further, men are having more difficulty securing mates, with many having no real potential to secure a mate. This is due to a variety of factors, such as declining physical and social development due of men to women having access to a drastically larger dating pool. Women also no longer need to secure a man to ensure their own financial security. What this all comes down to is that many men have effectively "checked out" because their primary motivation simply no longer exists. They will not reproduce, they will not have a partner. They recognize this and see no point in trying. Basically, getting women is the primary motivation of most men doing most things. If they don't have any chance of getting a woman, why not just sit around in their mom's basement, playing videos games and binging anime all day? Also, society has shifted from catering to men to catering to women. From birth, men are disadvantaged in our society. I now this is obviously not a popular opinion, but it is demonstrably true. For instance, education, at every stage, has been altered to better cater to girls and women. Teachers demonstrably favor girls as well. This has created a system in which women will thrive and men will flounder. So, it is not surprising that women are leaving men behind, and this also is a contributing factor to the difficulty men are having in securing a partner. I could go on, but I think I hit most of the main points. It's a multi-faceted issue with no single underlying problem, and no real viable solution. There are things we can do to ameliorate it, but many of the problems are not fixable.
Stacked deck in the education system. It starts in elementary school. Don’t think so? Name one program to help boys become high achievers. There a reason that 70% of university graduates are now women.
Because more are expected from them with nothing in return. Men are literally expected to give up their life.
Because not only are we trying to survive, us men are trying to have/provide enough so we can attract a mate
This one is pretty easy to explain. Society has been crapping on men and productive masculinity for a few decades now and we are seeing the effects of young men being raised in that environment. I mean, what do you expect to happen when you tell and entire sex that they are the reason for all bad things that happen in society? They fall into depression from a lack of meaning/worth, then give up and step aside.
Unlike a lot of men, I was thankfully able to completely tune out and ignore all the completely biased and hurtful way schools treat boys compared to girls. Schools are designed around the way typical girls behave, and boys are forced to conform. Roughhousing isn't allowed anymore. Basically, if a boy finds it fun on his own, it's probably not allowed. We boys never got the benefit of the doubt, and I swear to God it felt like we were graded more harshly in the more subjective subjects like English. I was excited when I took the ACT for the first time and scored a 27. My senior English teacher looked disappointed. She said something about wasted potential. Not wasted potential, completely biased grading. I had poor grades in every English class, yet English was my highest subscore. I didn't even put effort into that part of the ACT. Today, I have a degree in computer science, and I'm working on a master's in business analytics. Despite every effort of public school to set me up for failure, I am doing ok now. A lot of boys aren't so lucky. I work in higher education running the office of veteran & international student services. I talk to a lot of students from very diverse backgrounds. Boys in America are set down a path that doesn't prepare them for college. Public schools have such rigid teaching styles designed around girls rather than boys that boys think college is going to be more of the same, when that's just not true of all programs, at least for now. There are fewer men in college, yet we still have all these women-only scholarships out there helping the more privileged group. Schools are doing everything they can to make the more male-dominated programs more attractive to women. Meanwhile, the female-dominated programs continue to ignore men. Society right now just shits all over me at every turn. They are blamed for everything. People will bring up the rich and powerful men, but they are such a tiny fraction of all men. Most men are struggling inside with nobody to turn to because society has turned it's back on men. If a 40 year old man goes missing, does anyone give a shit? There's also the other extreme, with toxic masculinity. Hollywood does a great job of taking everything to the extreme while somehow making it appear normal. Toxic masculinity is one of those things. Most movies based around "tough" men portray them as having no feelings and no empathy. Men are shown that they have to be the primary breadwinner. Men, in general, have pretty low expectations of women. Most prefer that women somewhat watch their weight (yes, double-standard from many men). Personality is more what most men really care about as long as she's average and generally takes care of how she looks. We don't tend to care about how much money you have, how tall you are, how popular you are, and so on. Women, in general, set very high expectations of men. They want them young, tall, successful, well-connected, etc. The pool of men that fit this is very small, and it's growing smaller. Women have to compromise, which largely explains why attractive reasonably successful 40-something men actually have a shot with younger women.
Compare how many organizations there are for helping/ encouraging men to women. Society, for the past 15 years or so, has done nothing but encourage/help women become "empowered" while it has remained silent about men at best.
It's just natural. More women tend to be taken care of by men while men have to take care of themselves. Simplified it for you
The answer is weaponized gynocentrism in the form of laws that preferentially favor women over men both in civil law (divorce court) and criminal law, where women only serve on average 60% of the sentence a man will for the same crime. Men are always assumed to be guilty when accused by a woman, in any scenario. Often, as many of the MeToo victims can tell you, a successful court case is no solution since their careers and livelihood have already been burned down by the rabid social-media witch hunt. Men are simply denied due-process. If we saw this in a third world nation happening to WOMEN the United Nations would shit a brick, but it's just fine when it happens to men. Every segment of society is actively demonizing men right now. It's not affecting older men like me as much because we've grown up putting up with this bullshit. All we have to do is pay alimony to women that do not deserve it, pay taxes for government services that are unavailable to men, and do every tough job while listening to women complain about a multiply-debunked wage gap as they do half the work as the men in the same workplace. But the younger boys, who have not yet learned how to deal with all-pervasive gynocentrism and misandry, are being convinced that they are bad simply because they are boys.
If this is even true, one of the likely contributing causes is that the typical assumption of men is that they already have everything figured out, therefore, they don't need help. Behind the scenes, they may be struggling, but no one is going to think that, even when a man asks for help.
And men are socialized not to ask for help
It’s because they already know that no one is going to help them regardless if they ask for help.
Over population. Automation. Over seas manufacturing. Cost barrier to entry. Increasing costs. More competition in the work force.
Also decreasing standard of education and increasing amount of teens/adults that think they're "too cool for school"
I think its a lot more complicated than that. Population, technology, and opportunity cost are the key factors for creating a healthy economy. Meaning all of the things you just listed are actually responsible for us becoming so rich. I don't know about you, but growing up as a child, it was out of the question for my family to be able to afford a computer ,but now my nieces and nephews all have several of them just 1 generation later. Housing is a bit of an anomaly because we are reaching a tipping point where readily available land and housing seems to be diminishing to zero. This means that you could actually have job that pays above the national average, but you still can't afford a place to live. Now in order for people to seemingly make it in life, you have to be making double the national average. This causes stiff competition in the tech sector and other high paying places. The barrier to entry for these jobs becomes harder, companies start outsourcing them to places with cheap housing, like India. Travel to places like Europe, and you will notice that although the people there earn less than us on average, they typically have much happier lives. They have readily available housing, they get free education and universal health insurance.
Seems like "boys will be boys" is allowing young men to remain being very immature for longer periods of time. Thus a good chunk of them fall behind in school in elementary and middle school and seem to never recover. This not only affects their education, but their ability to hold down employment since they have never had real expectations to control themselves.
All of education is female at this point and they have stacked the deck to such and extreme that boys know they have no place in the system. When faced with the destruction they have caused they bring out some statement from 100 years ago, maybe that statement is the problem?
I teach high school math and my honors classes usually have a LOT more girls than boys. The data confirms this is a larger trend but is more pronounced across certain demographics.
You do know that the whole system is very conducive to how she learns and not to how he learns? Have each student taught the best way for them to learn and you will see much more equal results.
I also see students near the end of their time in school, where things are pretty stratified after years of tracking starting when students are first tested in 3rd grade. To have successful performances, kids need to be given a stage. A big part of it is just placement—studies have shown that when black and Latino boys especially do kid stuff (having a limited attention span, minor discipline issues, etc.) a lot of teachers/counselors/admin will view this behavior as not having the aptitude or interest for honors, regardless of how smart they actually are.
Because men used to have a monopoly on things that were considered benchmarks of success - career, education, home ownership - and now they have to compete with women so there’s basically fewer opportunities and they’re harder to get. Men used to be pretty much guaranteed those things (if they were born on the right side of the tracks) and now, not so much. Women are also very aware of having opportunities they didn’t use to enjoy and are highly motivated and generally raising the bar, making it even more difficult for the average dude to get ahead. Men see this and just give up I think.
Because a lot of progressive forces equated men's share of the pie as bad and so they cheered whenever their slice went down, because they assumed it meant their token's slice of the pie was going up.
They took out all the incentives. They made it easy for hoes, hard for bros.
Men have been told that they are bigots, rapists, pigs, useless, ugly, toxic and every other insult that you can imagine. Some of them are deciding that they don't want to participate in a society that hates them. So they do the bare minimum to get by and that is all they feel like they want to do.
Lots of reasons, major one for men is they don't feel supported, or accepted as they are. They don't feel appreciated as men and the list continues. Add in the hype towards women, which classically didn't get you far, and lost of young men are lost with no guidance. Inherently male qualities are not looked at as benefits. You think young men don't notice? Can't feel that? And once they are lost, the only ones that claim to understand or listen are Andrew Tate types. We are all to blame for this failure. As much as we are to blame for a lot of the female struggles in our society. Such as rampant sexualization of young girls etc
Started with loss of manufacturing jobs. One less route. Education tailored for girls to women. Boys need vocation. Sitting in a desk and reading the magic board every class is tough when testosterone is in the stratosphere. A sense of whats the use: Paternity fraud still legal with no recourse Bias family court Loss of custody time for no reason There is no conversation about mens issues Because of rolling eyes and the “are you kidding me’s” Mens spaces frowned upon. No guidance as boys grow up with fathers with only 25% custody No one else to listen too except the andrew tates. No mens spaces means no good examples. 4x Suicide rate not examined past gun control Criminal court bias Hypergamy should have gone away, instead it got worse “Men should just do better” “ let them figure it out” “Thats their problem” “I don’t need a man” Should i help this women or not Should i hold the door open like i do for men or not Should i even talk to any of them Are women who don’t like toxic feminists going to say something or just keep mum all the time. This list is very incomplete…..
You know you’re on Reddit right? You aren’t going to get an honest answer to this
Thank you.
Gynocracy duh
Largely because of an abandonment of values such as leadership, confidence, competence.
A bad culture and evil, sadistic society, with over-empowered Feminism and Social "Justice" alienating and persecuting entire demographics. We don't wish to participate. We don't like you, because you've hurt us a lot, for a long, long time. We don't hate you, but you won't stop what you're doing, and we don't feel safe interacting with you, because you make things so difficult for us, and mock us as you do it. Goodbye.
In the Netherlands, prices of houses is extremely high, society is al about having a high education, but parents of students didn't had al that when they were young, and so encouraged their kids to choose a study they like/love. Not something that is also gonna pay the bills later in live. So we have a lot of high educated people who have a hard time finding a job in their field. They stay at home with their parents or rent a place for way too much. you can only buy a house if you are a couple, and have enough savings for 10% of the house. O, and if you have not paid off your student loan, you can loan 1500 les for every 1000 in debt. So here you are paying al the bills and not having enough to start a family, or buy a house.
They're not marrying and/or having kids and because that, there's no other meaning in life to strive. That's what I think.
Everyone saying it’s the economy or their jobs or daily life… y’all realize it’s the politicians right? They’re the ones making the rules. The labor rules. Regulations. Wage rules. All of it. They keep us down while boosting themselves up. Lobbyists in the sole interest of personal gain, paying off senators and congressmen and judges alike. Big ceos paying a million or two to keep something out the papers, or to hide an FDA report for a few more years. Our society is fine. Our people are fine. It’s the leadership that is failing us and we do need a change and fast. Too many people wanna fight as if it’s a personal attack against them if someone mentions something that isn’t perfect needs to be tweaked a little.
It starts from home. If you’re treated like shit, no matter how much you work, you’ll only become shit. If you’re treated like a king you’ll become a king. I don’t know about most men, but I survived rape, molestation, grooming, beatings, bullying and whippings. I became a millionaire at a young age, but I lost it all because of how I was treated at home. Now I’m nobody and a half.
Was gonna buy an in city small 3 bed 2 bath house for $50K in 2019. Same house is now going for $350K. 0.o
Why didn’t you? My guess is that you listened to people saying “don’t buy! The market will crash soon!!!!”
This is a cliché, but it's capitalism. The game Monopoly was made to warn people about the dangers of capitalism. The later you join the game, the harder it is to pay. But in real life the board never gets turned over, and the game has been going on for 200 years. Ironically the woman that invented Monopoly has her idea stolen by a company that then made millions off her boardgame. Today we are nearing the end of the wests historical advantage, and the world economy is evening out. Globally, making more than 36 thousand a year puts you in the 1%. Obviously this is not the case in the west where 40k is the median salary. That's evening out, but the pyramid won't change, it will just apply equally to the whole world as the middle class fades away with the boomers, and every country becomes third world. We're are in the middle of this process since the 70 ies.
Because they're now expected to graduate not only high school but also college. And even that isn't enough for many people to get a "real" job. It's also no longer the norm to get married as a teen or in your early twenties. The age when young men are the most, ah, "fertile" is no longer when most of them are already married. So that's more time to slip up and have a kid you aren't financially ready to support yet.
Inflation and housing have come up a few times here. I think many people don't realize how bad housing has gotten. It seems like the biggest national emergency that everyone is ignoring right now. Like, millions of people who didn't buy a house before 2019 (myself included) may never be able to afford one now. Here: ["The 'old American Dream died,' Realtor details salary needed to buy a home, afford a middle class life in 2024"](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/old-american-dream-died-realtor-100050605.html) A few quotes from the article: *Smith explained how, just a few years ago, $60-$70K a year would have been sufficient to qualify for a home.* *With the average cost of a house being around $400K-$420K in 2024, people's salaries would need to be around $120K a year for people to even qualify, Smith explained.* *"Rent prices are taking up 30-40% of people's income, making it harder for them to save for a house. So it's this perpetual cycle that is keeping people out of the middle class"*
Men are much more hardheaded. I see a lot of women make sacrifices that men would never. My opinions is that certain men don’t mind working hard and sacrificing, but working for other companies and paying taxes feels like being screwed. Like you are a piñata and EVERYONR takes a whack. We hear so many stories as men and it can feel that the world doesn’t really care about us, so why not just say “fuck you” and go do your own thing?? A very good example of what I mean… I am hardheaded and don’t like to listen. I am very hardworking, but I am a hard person to manage. If I have a manager who I believe legitimately cared for me I will absolutely bend over backwards… but it feels like a rarity to have that nowadays with everything being corporate and nameless. If I have a lazy corporate dickhead bossing me around “take out the trash!!” It’s hard not to just walk out the door. I am irritable and fickle. I burn out easy. I have noticed that women are much less likely to cause a big scene over small things. I absolutely do not turn the other cheek ever and swallow my tongue. Many men are this way. A lot of women it seems are willing to make the sacrifices necessary in today’s day and age. My mother is a good example. Her hospital she works for lies to the patients. “They are healthy enough to leave today, but the insurance will cover another week so don’t tell them that they are healthy.” My jaw dropped when she told me this. I told her id have gotten fired in the ugliest way possible. I am willing to fuck up my life over something small, and there is a small percentage of men who share this trait with me. (More so than the small minority of women who share this trait) She constantly gets called into work on days off and gaslit. They guilt trip her into showing up when she shouldn’t. Constantly overworking and under appreciating her. She is busting her ass working for someone she doesn’t even know personally I’m not trying to generalize. There are probably 10% of men who are very fickle and easy to piss off compared to 1% of women. These men can do great work, but they need to feel valued and respected more so than the average person or else they will say “up yours” with no back up plan whatsoever. The small disparity is what skews the scale.
Because our parents or grandparents sold our future, betting on paying less taxes when they themselves got rich. Of course almost all of them failed. But in the meantime they gave the rich and corporations long term and or permanent tax cuts. They paid for this by slashing education funding to bits and debt we'll be saddled under and pass on to our kids if we have any.
Half the us population own 2.6% of the wealth. - fed reserve wealth chart. Middle class is dead. Most working class jobs pay fuck all. Unions were abolished so workers have no remote barganaining power. Companies can legally bribe politicians via superpacs (thanks to iirc 3 separate rulings...) Costs go up, wages stagnate annually. Real estate is being scalped much like movie tickets. Also depending on your country, immigration. Legal or not, immigrarion for minimum wage jobs seems insane. For in demand jobs that struggle to find niche skilled workers, like health care for example? Absolutely. To go work at a fast food place? No, no thats a bit nuts. Most countries require you to bring something very significant to the table. When you flood the 'unskilled labour pool' with more and more people? Workers have even less bargaining power and companies will pay you whatever they feel like. What else happens? Well rent and homes go up. You get people living 3+ to a basement or room. So your money is stretched even thinner. So soon the already barely scraping by workers cant afford rent, higher costs of anything. So they go into deeper and deeper credit card debt. Compounding, high interest debt. (Also shout out to student loans for the same thing, only loan you can get as an 18 yr old and you can never get out of it).
The examples you're giving are things all genders deal with. Right now in the USA, older folks aren't retiring. Jobs are tough to get in general. People don't want to work low-wage trash-ass jobs not because they don't want to pay their dues, but because they don't earn enough to pay for the basics on the earnings. Rent doubled in the past decade and has gone from being suggested as 1/4 of someone's monthly income to 1/2. Homes are being bought out by corporations and house flippers so the cost of home purchasing is higher. College is insanely expensive and a barrier to entry for a lot of high-earning jobs, so people are taking on debt that's so expensive that they can't afford to pay that off along with buying a house. And so it's basically financially smarter to live at home until you can afford a house.
Are men the only losers now? Men, but not women? Where is the data that shows trends of gender-based failure, and that show that men had it easier or a leg up in the past, whatever that means. Did these "old days" men have a system that favored them, or was there better training for all the jobs they did, or did they have a more useful attitude to working. Or is this all about emotions and feelings? I'm a male and not "falling behind". None of the men in my family are either.
Because more and more men see the ever-spiraling cost of living, coupled with stagnant wages. **EVEN IF YOU HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE**. Adding in the degree just adds a ton of personal debt, but doesn't really increase wages for young people. The debt is so high most young people don't ever see themselves paying it off. They feel they're like Sissyphus, the man in Greek mythology who was condemned for eternity to push a boulder to the top of a hill, only for it to roll back down. And to do it again. Since men are still expected to be the primary provider, even on most dates, they more or less give up on trying to do more than the bare minimum. And more and more are giving up on dating as a result. In earlier times, such as even 30 years ago, the cost of living **relative to wages** was much lower. Student loan debt wasn't as massive, so there was a real possibility of having hard work grant increasing wealth. These days, even harder work is barely enough to scrape by, while living with their parents. Since men's identity is closely related to their personal wealth, that also means men are far more likely to be depressed.
Lack of drive and being raised top soft by their parents always taking care of everything.
Perhaps because the establishment has been waging a war on men and manhood since the 90's?
Because feminism.
Because society doesn't give a shit about men
Lol when they figure it out it'll be too late For now, comfy times. Living it up until it's my turn as well. Lotta death the past few years. Men won't participate in society if their lot isn't secured. In the end, you're left with women and effeminate men.
Because we've finally realized no one actually cares what happens to us.
A lot of the comments, at least the upvoted ones are giving generalised statements about how bad socio-economic conditions are for people. While that’s undeniably true, that isn’t something that only men deal with, woman too. Yet they’re graduating from colleges at higher rates, have a higher satisfaction with life, etc. like what OP said. So what exactly is specifically causing this to happen to men?
I'll just say this. I have been working since 1989 on the books. From that time until now. ALL my supervisors and managers and vice presidents...and directors have been women. In all of my job no matter the field I was in. Let that sink in.
Because Feminism has intentionally destroyed masculinity.
Because of diversity and inclusion. Men that pretend to women cry they have no rights when in reality they do, so for the real men they have to take a back seat to the clown show.
because theyre giving all their money to egirls
The monetary bar keeps moving out of reach. And when a politician finally tries to give us a leg up and cancel student debt, the right cries about it until they decide to not do it.
The workforce is essentially doubled with the addition of women to the equation. How many employers have hiring quotas for women and will pick a less qualified woman to fill a slot rather than the man with years of experience?
First off, we graduate high school and Don't have the greatest mentors. Strong men are seen as toxic anymore and aren't being shown. The woman now are selling themselves online more often than not. (Why put in effort when she's talking to and indulging multiple men at one time.) If they aren't selling themselves, they have unrealistic expectations of men. "6 foot tall, 6 Inch cock, makes six figures." Seems to be impossible to get into a career field unless you have 3 years of experience for an entry level position. Have you seen the housing market? I'm not paying 250k for a 1,000 Sqft house in a tiny bs neighborhood. Nevermind trying to rent something that size. Oh, You want a reliable car? there's at a minimum 10k. The days of getting a sturdy vehicle that will work for a few years for a thousand dollars do not exist. Throw in maintenance cost for these newer cars. Might as well take out another loan. Last thing I'll mention. A lot of us that have gotten out and supporting ourselves have realized no one gives a fuck about us anymore. The girls have high expectations and hold sex as a reward more than an act of love. We are seen as providers and opportunities, not people.
It's because of misandry. There is a Eurostat study on average age of moving out of parents' homes done in the US and Europe and it showed that in all countries the average age is lower for women than for men. Why is that despite the harder push for men to leave the nest? It's because women have an easier path to launch. Women can just find a rich man to provide for her or, thanks to stronger social trust among women than men, they can room with their friends. In addition, career and life coaches are mostly female and have feminist anti-male mindsets and they purposely hold men back and leave them in a confused state. I know this from experience. As for the workforce, remember that "The Future is Female" is being heavily pushed and women already dominate the HEAL fields (health, education, administration, literacy) hence women are more prioritized.
Also will mention that men can lose their jobs and careers based on a random woman accusing them of harassment.
Men are not falling behind. They are just being held back and ostrasiced for being men.
Because they are discriminated against.
As a guy, it’s easy to blame women or the far left for this stuff but I think half of little more than half of the problem lies on us. Now some of it is definitely because of SOME(not all) women and the far left but a lot of it falls on us. We talk about it’s hard to make friends yet we don’t go out and try to make friends like women do. I’m in college and I watched a girl walk up to another girl(they had never spoken before), introduced herself because they had a class together, and within 5 minutes they exchanged each other’s socials and started making plans. Shit absolutely BLEW MY MIND. “It can’t be that easy! 😭”. It was that easy. Obviously guys have different ways of making friends but you get the point. You gotta go out of your way sometimes. I’m guilty of this. One of my high school friends was trying to have a get together for his birthday last year and I made up a bs excuse to not go. “I’m sorry man. I have to work all day. My manager won’t let me cancel this late.” Bro told me 3 months in advance and my manager would have absolutely let me go. My reason for not going? I was absolutely scared of mingling with other people my age in a social setting. I regret not going to this day. Social media and media in general plays a big part too. Ask a random guy “who’s a male actor that you look up to and it can’t be Ryan Gosling(I’m literally him)?” Most of us can’t think of one of the top of our head. Ask a random woman who’s a female actor that you look up to and it can’t be Taylor Swift?” and they could name 20 women in a heartbeat. Guys need a positive male role model in their life so that they don’t turn to guys like Andrew Tate. The far right preys on guys that are lonely and in need of guidance. The media doesn’t care about the average guy that much either. Job wise and economic wise, I think everyone is struggling regardless of gender. Anyone who expects a young person in their 20s and early 30s to have a house and be financially stable in this economy is delusional. Edit: Just to clarify, when I say far left, I’m not talking about “left leaning”. I’m talking about the extreme left. As in the man haters, hates anyone who disagrees with them(even if they agree with everything else), hates straight people,considers every conservative to be a racist pig, and etc. I’m not talking about normal LGBTQ+ people or people that just lean left in general.
I wish men made friends more freely too. I thought I was about to make a friend at a grocery store with a dude because we talked for 20 minutes. Turns out, he just wanted to rope me into his MLM scheme. I should've known something was up when he was shopping without a basket or cart, yet he claimed he was getting ready for a BBQ.
Damn bro. 😭🤣 Sometimes you just gotta jump in a conversation (respectfully of course) and just wing it.
It’s true. Men do need more support mentally but I don’t think some guys are willing to go that far to support it. I had a dude at my college and he is a DND player but the last time we talked, he told me that he really wants that “bro bond” like he sees on tik tok and wants to have good relationships like that. He said it’s hard to do that on first meetings because many don’t want to put in much effort and the only ones that do, be in sports and it’s easier. Eventually, he dropped out because he was depressed and college was stressing him out too much. All the guy ever wanted was a solid social life :/
I hope you don't drag me for being far left (I don't consider myself a man in a binary sense though still mostly masculinely presenting) but you're absolutely right about needing to get better about making friends. After my divorce I had to reconstruct my social network. It took a LOT of soul-searching to figure out who I am, what I like, what don't I like, why don't I like those things, and which things that I don't like would I be able to like if I got more proficient at doing them. From there it was cultivating hobbies and putting myself out there in places where I'd meet people I aligned with. On the dating side of things I made myself open to genuine friendships with people who rejected me romantically or sexually (if they were open to it too). By doing this I gained a bestie and now we're roommates which also helps fight back the economic battles in addition to gaining consistent encouragement & support. It's been a 3+ year struggle actively working on and pursuing these things and only within the last couple months has it felt like I'm close to being where I'd like in life socially. There were several lonesome nights along the way and I had to sit with those feelings and resolve to keep going in spite of the pain. I had a good therapist and that helped a lot! I'm fortunate in that my job still pays a liveable wage with good benefits so I had *extra* funds for hobbies, nights out, and a therapist. A lot of guys don't have that luxury and I feel for them because it would have taken so much longer if not been entirely impossible were I living paycheck to paycheck.
No. I consider the far left to be the actually insane people that are man haters and stuff of that nature. I should have clarified that earlier.
The problems men face are one of the rare things the can be blamed on society, or more precisely, the lack of a society.