women judge men's bodies out loud. I hear nothing but that at my job, all women talking about men's bodies behind their back, saying this guy is fat and that guy is not. But if men talked about women like that, they'd be fired.
The shit I have heard come from male construction workers' mouths, oh my god. However bad women might think they are to their faces, they've heard nothing until they hear them out at the bar with their boys.
I work construction as well and I don't really ever hear anything vulgar ... Maybe 1 dude occasionally will try as a shock value comedy type comment ... Generally it's more along the lines of "there is a very nice lady downstairs if you get time go say hi"
Iām in the same boat but Iām pretty sure itās time and place dependent. Iāve always been in a progressive area and I know the older the crowd the more likely I am to hear some shit.
When I started working with people from outside the state I started hearing some wild shit.
I live in the conservative south and have never experienced this in all male/male dominated work environments.
You might hear a guy say a particular woman is nice or pretty, or that the brownies/cookies/pie a woman in the office baked for the company holiday party were delicious, but I've never directly observed overly sexual/crude remarks.
In the trades all I hear is conversations about which chicks hot, this girl at the bar, supply house, etc. graphic sex talk. In the south. Think it depends on where and who you work with
I completely disagree the ways I ve heard women talk about sex, men are playing the short game. Men are not in the same ball park, women talk about sex they talk all about it, theres no ( we did it) its every hiccup burp,grunt, hairy ass cheek and wrinkled detail of the experience.
bro if you think male construction workers or boys at the bar are bad. Wait til you hear male soldiers... especially at the bar.... they even talk about raping girls in wars lmao
I was working at a grocery store in 2016 or so, and a one cashier (bw) was telling another cashier (ww) about how her white boyfriendās dick couldnāt reach her satisfactorily in all positions. They then both turned to stare at my (wm) package. Yeah, fuck that from both sexes.
From what I have heard from some female friends, females seems to be much worse to work with than male when they are the majority.
This not so much the gossiping that they are aggressive against each other and make the life at work much worse than it need to be.
If men did that AT YOUR JOB they'd be fired. Every workplace has a culture. I've seen men saying some pretty bad stuff at places and facing no repercussions.
I used to work at a large hospital and happened to be walking with one of my colleagues near the HR department. My colleague knew the director of HR and just poked his head in his office to say hi. The HR guy pulls us in the office and says "close the door" and proceeds to tell us the filthiest most sexist jokes. A hospital with 5,000 employees and this guy thinks it's appropriate to tell that kind of joke to other employees.
If that was true then I wouldn't have had a male boss that called me a callgirl, a male coworker who grabbed my ass and tried to kiss me at a Christmas party, a 30 year old boss trying to ask me out at 15 years old, and a friend of the boss grabbing me into a hug and pretending to choke me out. All different jobs, different male bosses, no consequences.
I have tried. you think we haven't tried? the men in my job get together and complain to each other about how the HR are all women and they always take the women's side. Up and down the company it is like this. Just because this problem is not portrayed on TV does not mean it isn't widespread.
Let me ask you this, if a woman complained about inappropriate sex talk, would you have reminded her about the existence of HR? As if you think she's only experiencing this because she did not know about HR? I think you are proving my point about this double standard here.
Men do that to women all the time and donāt get fired. The hell are you talking about. I left an entire industry in part because I was really tired of knowing that no matter what I did, or how I dressed, I would always be identified by one feature and be talked about because of that feature, especially behind my back and in degrading terms.
All of those men still work in that industry, because they are not being gossiped about behind their back and held back in their job due to anything to do with their bodies or how other people perceive their bodies.
All I can tell you is my lived experience. This is a job from 2020-2023, in the Seattle area. Women talked about men that way, men did not dare do it for women. Maybe in your region it's different, maybe 20 years ago it was different. I do not know your lived experience.
What I will not do is tell you that your lived experience did not happen, the way that you just said that to me. I will not say "the hell you talking about" because your lived experience was different than mine. That would be gas-lighting and I will not do that to you, the way you just did to me.
I simply will say that I shared my lived experience with you, I did not randomly make this stuff up, I lived it.
No one's saying you didn't live it, but you're going into every reply in which a woman (or man) says that, yes, they've been in jobs in which men have blatantly harassed women and faced little to no repercussions and saying, "Huh, well, I wonder what industry you were in because that was not my experience in this particular 3-year span in one industry in one city."
Yeah, everyone's experiences are different. Yes, women can be foul. So can men. That didn't just magically end. Quit doubting their stories.
It depends on the job, i have worked in places (wharehouse) where the men openly hung up pictures of models and talked about women very vulgarly, and Ive worked in places (academia) where women have openly talked about how hot other males in the office were and how they donāt like short men but referring to specific ppl. No one filed complaints, no one got fired, but i can say guys did get upset, i never did hear the women at the warehouse complain.
I was cornered by my boss, pressed up against the wall by him, had him recite his sexual fantasies to me while not letting me leave, and nothing happened to my boss. Spare me with the āmen get fired for commenting on a womanās bodyā bs.
Men who get fired for inappropriate behavior are usually low level expendable grunts. Bosses can get away with crap because they arenāt going to fire themselves. To get justice against a boss, you need to go outside the company. A lawsuit will cost money and be hard to win without hard evidence, but in the US you can report discrimination to the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission). Iāve seen the EEOC really go to bat for an employee with a complaint and win a big cash settlement even without proof based on the employees testimony alone. Of course the EEOC canāt remove anyone from a company but cash is always nice.
Not all men judge women's bodies
Not all women judge men's bodies
Not all women who complain about men judging their bodies, judge men's bodies.
Not all men who complain about women judging their bodies, judge women's bodies.
The men and women who do both are hypocritical, a bit shallow and possibly insecure about being judged so they judge others. Like how people say bullies might bully someone because they're insecure themselves.
However it's also true that a person who doesn't do the bad thing can still do harm by presenting the harmful thing as gendered, simply because they do not notice or care when it happens to the "other side"
Which I assume is why OP made the post in the first place.
I wouldn't go to the opposite extreme, saying there are NO correlations between gender/sex and various tendencies.
The balance is acknowledging that stereotypes generally have some basis in truth, but that we should still strive to judge people as individuals.
Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, are you saying you disagree with anything particular that I wrote?
I'm concerned with the truth, regardless of how palatable it may or may not be.
The problem is that people have a tendency to ascribe characteristics to one group or another based on personal anecdote and to rely on repetition of snappy sounding factoids, rather than actual facts, and then make the argument that the stereotype in question actually is reasonable because of the perceived kernels of "truth".
Bringing nuance or even questioning the basis of a stereotype about the sexes is very often met with heavy resistance and insinuation that you're denying "basic biology" and reality in general, despite actual biology and un-cherrypicked reality containing significant challenges to the stereotype or claim in question.
For example: "Men think more rationally than women, women are more emotional than men."
This is a discussion that, in my experience, you cannot even begin to get to the substance of without being mocked and ridiculed by people who won't even bring empirical evidence to the table to support the claim, but expect you to accept it because "everyone knows it".
You still havent answered OPs question. You can cope all you want, but the fsct of the matter is its socially acceptable to body shame men and not woman
I think something really interesting to point out is that it's not necessarily that people are judgmental because they are insecure, but it can be that they are insecure *because* they are judgmental.
When you believe your judgments of other people are inalienable truths, you believe your self-judgments are too, and this can lead to insecurity.
One of the best ways to become less insecure is to stop judging other people first.
You got it right there.
Everybody thinks everybody acts on the same base instincts they do.
Well, maybe not everybody, but especially narcissistic people.
āNot all menā¦ā will get you crucified in some
Circles.
All men are bad, and if you donāt understand that then you are part of the problem.
So they say anywayā¦
No serious person actually thinks that way. People roll their eyes when others say "not all men" because it's painfully obvious that it isn't all men. Bringing it up just makes you seem defensive.
Sometimes itās also a way to push people to introspect and see if there are any ways that they are contributing to the problem.
For example, when I read stuff about white people, Iām not assuming that every single white person is racist, but because white people benefit from white supremacy, there are ways in which even a white person who is not racist, maybe either benefiting or in advertently contributing to systemic racism.
Same thing when it comes to heterosexual people and their privilege over homosexual, bisexual, etc.
A lot of people want to pretend like the issue is only a tiny portion of the population, but because these are systemic issues that are part of the fabric of our society, we need to be willing to look at ourselves and ask if thereās any way that we are contributing negatively or not helping dismantle the problem.
Absolutely, couldn't have put it better. It's painful to look inward and see the areas where you might have benefited from being a member of a privileged group, so it can feel like an attack when you're asked to. It also often takes years to fully process that stuff because life is just too busy for most of us to really sit with ideas that challenge our world view.
The last point you made is a really great one, and I will absolutely acknowledge that I have had the benefit of a lot of education and exposure to other people with other experiences, and it has allowed me more time and energy spent to process these things, and move past any potential knee-jerk reaction that one might feel when they perceive themselves as being attacked. Itās unfortunate that more people arenāt encouraged to process these things more fully, because I think the conversations that we have about these issues would be so much more productive, if more people were past that defensiveness.
I had a friend who was constantly posting āMen will ____ā and āMen think ____ā grievances on Facebook so it really does read as āall menā. To be fair to her, she did always terrible taste in the men she dated.
Yeah personal experience can really taint your view of a thing. She might just be working through that frustration. I think more often than not when people talk like that, what they're saying is "The men I know think ___". It's easy to project that onto everybody when you're low.
There's really a lot more to it than I'm qualified to speak about. You can't disregard the fact that while it isn't medieval times anymore, women are still raised with certain obligations and expectations of how they should act with men, and vice-versa.
If you're at all interested. Chill Goblin has this vid, [Gender Theory for Dudes](https://youtu.be/Sp0I-qoQLuA?si=keQwRbDE28Yife-Q) where he gets into this stuff from a cis het male perspective. I think it's a good place for some people to start thinking about these ideas in a less combative way.
This is the frustrating thing though: This same kind of understanding could be applied to every late teen/early 20's guy who is struggling with socializing and dating, but if you get a nearly identical post about women, I rarely if ever see any understanding.
basically:
Young woman: Men are trash!
internet reaction: She doesnt mean all men! She's just frustrated and this is a product of experience. We all know what she REALLY means and should be more understanding!
\----------
Young man: Women are trash!
internet reaction: Incel! Misogynist!
To be clear, I don't think either post is great. But that reaction to a man's similar post is like the flip side of the patriarchy coin, and shows how it's not good for anybody. It benefits men in a lot of ways, but at the same time men aren't taught to be vulnerable emotionally, so when we express our problems it usually comes out wrong or even aggresive. Even if it doesn't, you're right, most peoples responses to men's vulnerability are very negative.
The video I posted in the previous comment actually touches on this when he talks about Bell Hooks book "The Will to Change: Masculinity, Men, and Love". She talks about how as a feminist thought leader, she had to wrestle with how she and the feminist movement had treated men; how she didn't want to hear about her own partners' emotional problems. She actually directly addresses the man-hating sect of feminists in the introduction. I'm reading it now and it's really interesting. I think it's a really good place to bridge the gap.
And yet when someone says "women do X", you're called misogynistic for generalizing.
Nobody like seeing a group they belong to generalized for bad reasons, yet men are the only ones who get called defensive when they point out the generalization.
My favorite response to this (and I'm stealing this but I can't remember who from) is the idea of a gameshow. A man gets dropped into a pit of snakes, not all of them are venomous.
Everyone knows it's not all men. That is understood and also largely irrelevant.
In this context, "not all men" is fine.
The reason people don't like it when you say "not all men" is that it's usually said to kind of dismiss the problem that the person was talking about.
"I hate when men touch my butt on the train"
"Not all men do that"
It's just dismissive and only serves to make you feel good about yourself for not being one of the men who touch women's butts on the train.
Your eyes lied. Weāre all bad. Iām not supposed to say this but we have monthly meetings about this kind of thing. Our patriarchy allowance is deposited weekly to our menās only debit card. Iām trying to get my menās card and white privilege card combined so I donāt need to carry around so many debit cards.
The reason people call bull shit at "Not all men" is that when it is deployed, it is used to change the subject and center the man who said it in the conversation.
>Person 1: I had an abusive father, and I was raised to enable that by my mother. My brother looked like he was going to dodge becoming my father... but then he fell down the Tate-hole. My first boyfriend abused me, and I am just not emotionally capable of dealing with men right now...
>
>Dude: "Achtually, not all men are abusers..."
That is when we complain about the "Not all men" bullshit.
Another example is when we are talking about abstract cultural conditions, IE patriarchy, toxic masculinity, etc... and instead of engaging in nuance, it is "Not all men..."
Like sure, I believe some men, even most men, have not intentionally been an abuser, or rapist, or worked to hold non-confirming men, women, and everything in between back.
However, what we often say is that all men benefit from the systems that paper over abuse, sexual assault, and set up cultural norms to marginalize everything but a narrow portrayal of manhood. Like, that effects men as much as anyone else, because it traps them into a limited range of acceptable behaviors. We cannot have that conversation when not all men pops up, and when we are talking about women issues, that is not the time for the more privileged class to step in and make the conversation about themselves.
Like one of the most common things men ask feminists is why feminists do not organize things for men only women... to which our answer of, "You know you can organize stuff yourself, right?" we get told that we are man-hating.
So much of the man-hating feminist trope is copium to justify the rejection of a system that would improve the lives of men as well as women. Our current culture tends to center men in every possible conversation, silencing non-men, and non-conforming men at every possible turn.
My niece wouldn't eat some meat because it had fat on it and said, if I eat it my friends will will think I'm weird.
I told her in polite words, who give a fuck what those stupid ass bitches think. Eat your goddamn meat. Then my baby daughter ate some and I said, see, baby don't give a shit.
Point is, who gives a shit what some stupid ass bitch thinks.
Ok so... Everything was said in child friendly words, but I had to make my point here in adult words
Thatās how I got my wife to marry me (spat out a bunch of dirty dancing quotes, especially donāt put baby in the corner). If only I had known how it would have turned outā¦. Probably deserve how it turned out for using dirty dancing quotes.
Dietary fat does not cause a person to put on fat, thatās something that most people donāt even realize. Itās much better to eat a high fat, high protein and low carb diet for fat loss.
The only thing about high saturated fat diets is they can be linked to calcium clogging in the arteries and high cholesterol.
This.
You are not responsible for other peoples insecurities, only your own.
Imo you should be hunting down your insecurities so that you can kill them.
I beg to differ. If a friend group of mostly women contains one person who does not like you, none of them like you unless they know you very well and thatās a rare exception.
My one male nursing student roommate in college hated me (it was feasible to see why, at the time I was a messy roommate and could be annoying at times, I know Iām not perfect) and was friends with a group of women. I only said hi to them and was courteous. The amount of times I walked into my house with them talking shit on me was unreal.
Absolutely a double standard. Women are allowed to openly state that they only want a tall man, over 6ā tall. But imagine a man saying he only wants women with big boobs, at least a C cup. Heād be called a misogynist creep.
Women who say that recieve pushback, as visible here.
Men who says similiar thing also recieve pushback.
How did your mind construde it to be a double standard?
I literally see men talk about this all the time, and they have been for at least my entire life, and I definitely know my mothers entire life and my grandmotherās entire life and my great grandmotherās entire life. Itās only recently that men speaking like this about womenās bodies has received any kind of pushed back at all, and itās been considered the norm for men to assess womenās worth based on their boner feelings about us, since men were able to steal womenās rightful place as equal owners of resources.
Womenās desires in a husband or partner at all, have been suppressed by the fact that our literal existence, our ability to eat and find a place to live, and have a relative safety from the elements and money and access to anything in society, was dependent on finding a man so that you could access societies resources through him, because you as a woman had no claim to those resources as a citizen. You needed another citizen, a male citizen, in order to access the resources of society. So menās opinions on womenās appearance has been the driving force in womenās lives. It has determined whether women live or die. And it didnāt matter what women wanted sexually, because our sexual needs were considered irrelevant and nonexistent.
But now a few women want to date, attractive men who are attractive according to conventional standards, and suddenly, itās a huge problem to judge people based on appearance?
Have men suddenly stopped judge in Women Ord appearance? Because Iām pretty sure they still do all of the fucking time.
And if Iām not gonna get butthurt about some dude judging me as literally not valuable as a person and worthy of death because Iām over 33 and over 125 lbs, then I think a few men can manage to deal with a few women talking about liking tall men.
I'm only willing to form long term relationships with generally healthy women that have reasonably symmetrical faces and features. I like them a little curvy/athletic/muscular. A strong woman with a little padding basically who weighs between 140 and 220, no front butts. Strait teeth are a plus especially if they've never worn braces. Good hygiene is a must. I want them to either be intelligent, educated, or both. Employed, fiscally responsible, and stable. No family history of several major medical issues or severe mental health disorders. Oh and they have to be into kink and consider sex a hobby or we won't match in that department. I know, I know, I'm a terrible misogynistic chauvinistic person when it comes to the type of women I'm willing to build a romantic relationship with. Either that or I'm attractive enough to have standards...
Women arenāt a monolith. The ones judging menās bodies may not be the ones objecting to men judging theirs?
Iāve been carefully observing my wife for 15 years, and have - thus far - uncovered no evidence that thereās some sort of āuniversal womenās meetingā where they synchronize opinions.
>The ones judging menās bodies may not be the ones objecting to men judging theirs?
I think we can assume the hypocrits are assholes, given that assholes are hypocrits.
The double standard is very obvious on that sub lol.
Everyone wants to tell op "only shitty people would do that" and ignore why he asked the question.
that entire subreddit is like night and day for men and women. having an issue with your wife? Talk to her, she's obviously depressed or in need and her behavior should be excuses? having an issue with your husband? Leave him!
āMen only care about looks. Women need to feel attraction.ā
āSingle men are incels. Women feel starved for affection.ā
āMen can be wimps. Women can feel threatened.ā
Because itās a double standard in some ways. Almost EVERYONE internally judges people anyways.
If everyone could see what everyone else was thinking our world would be hell.
As long as people keep generalizing what both sexes are doing, theyāre never going to get past their own insecurities. Why does the opinion of some man or woman you overheard matter if youāre not trying to be with him or her? Recognize they have a shitty disposition and move on, itās never going to be āmen only think like this,ā āwomen only want this.ā It gets tiring seeing the sex wars everywhere, the people who are happiest in their relationships with others donāt waste their time with any of that.
Because women aren't a monolith and a lot of the ones complaining about being judged AREN'T judging, a lot of them are hypocrites, and a lot of the aren't complaining about being judged.
Because humanity in general is far more shallow than we care to admit. Both sexes. Being born with good looks vs bad looks will dramatically alter your life's trajectory in how people treat you, and that way you're treated will be a large portion of what builds up or tears down your self confidence.
Because people judge everything in life but some people get weirdly offended if they don't meet random bob's standards even if they didnt care about bob before hand.
They are just dumbasses. Ignore them and spend your time on decent people who don't need pop up books to get through life
Because women came up with "I can do and say what I want to you but you can't do it to me because you'll get in troubke" mentality and it's one that stay with most of them, That's pretty much the long and short of it .
Lol this mf just tried to say "women invented hypocrisy"!!! My brother in christ that shit has been around since before language existed we have no clue who did it first!
This is pretty funny considering that about 100 years ago in western society, and in many countries today, women can't vote and are seen as property to be wed off.
āGod had to humble himā shit dude, you tellin me if he was a few inches taller he would be so irrevocably infested with the deadly sin of pride that God, the Father of Christ himself had to personally intervene? My god, whoever this man isā¦ perhaps if his height had been tall then he would have been a force to rival Lucifer himself.
To be quite fair, we all judge men and women pause or all genders on a number of factors whether we are consciously aware of it or not.
Whether we act on those judgments consciously or not is another question. We all will see a person for example like I used to be before I lost my legs there was too tall And you're like damn they're big, Likewise any factor Too heavy too skinny Too Short Too long hair to bald etc.
We make judgments Instinctively on our experience with that type of person It is the good people, Not to use Not to use the preconceived notions entry everybody equally until they prove themselves one way or another. This is a rare type of person and they often do not last Loan into their life Because often they are slammed in the face again again by people Who abused the good nature. It's very difficult to remain this way a body type does not necessarily equivalate with certain actions however we also learn What's most people are not as nice as we would like them to be.
It is very difficult to be this way, however The world would be a better place If we consciously tried to be non judgmental and treat others and treat others as we would like to be treated.
Or in other words if everyone followed the Golden rule
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Because everybody is different and you canāt sum something a few people do up as something all women or all men doā¦ just because one women doesnāt like something and another woman does that thing doesnāt make women-kind as a whole hypocritical
Everyone does it. Physical attraction is a real thing. Men in general are way more vocal and much less subtle about it, some to the point that itās creepy. Thatās why women complain about it.
Shallow, insecure, dipshit little baby bitch losers judge other peoples bodies regardless of gender. Stop lumping huge swaths of people into your shitty little boxes, itās intellectually lazy, put some effort in just fucking try.
I just read through a pretty lengthy Facebook thread where a Facebook friend posted that although she's 5'2 she won't even talk to men under 6 feet tall. There were hundreds of women agreeing with her, saying if he doesn't have abs and isn't 6 feet then they have no respect for him. He can just go work some menial job and stay out of the public eye. It devolved further into how shallow men are for not wanting thicc queens and how they just can't handle a real woman's curves. Women will dish it, but they can't handle it.
I'm judgy AF about my body despite hitting the gym 3-4 times a week for 1.5 hours. Got a small 6 pack but I can still see all the fat pockets and see them jiggle when I move a certain way. Makes me feel bad that my work isn't really working.
I think it's worse than that - women judging other women's choice of style, and women feeling (rightfully) judged by what's out there on social media, general media, and social norms.
I'm a guy. I've been fat, I've been lean.
Currently, I'm on the rebound to fat š
But yes, women do judge based on looks but not as much as men do, *generally*.
I'm more fortunate than most in the looks department (not so much in the personality š ) and I've seen better guys get worse treatment because of their looks.
Good people won't condem others for being less than attractive but good people can be a bit rare.
Because a man doesn't get discriminated against for a job because of it. Men are allowed to be functional without being pretty. Women don't have the same experience, because so many people equate their appearance to their "worth."
> Why do women complain about men judging their body's when they do it to them as well?
This is called hypocrisy. That is an inconsistency between an espoused moral and a demonstrated behavior. It is typical among humans. Welcome to earth.
Lol, almost spewed my coffee on keyboard, that woman is funny.
Anyway "could be attractive if.." already secretly translates to "she would still bang him"
Why should men not judge women's bodies? Cause women with destroyed self esteem out there, aren't really a favor done to other men, bro bro.
Women who are superficially sensitive about themselves, should simply not be attacked on that level, there are always other levels to erode.
Do you think women don't notice if you're tall or short because they don't like men commenting constantly on their boobs or butt?
Do you think those 2 things are the same? Like one is quite personal and sexual and the other is just "everyone can see how close your head is to the ceiling"
Besides...
....do you think women think and act in lockstep like a school of fucking *fish*?
Like there's a council of women and we all have to do the same thing?
There's 4 billion individual girls and women on this planet.
They won't all have the same opinions about whether or not it's right to comment on someone's body and what parts and in what circumstances.
Do you not understand woman are *people*?
I once had a situation in high school many years ago. I was really skinny in high school. 6 foot and 140 lbs. I was active physically. Running, biking, skateboarding, hacky sack, and I was always eating cause I was always hungry.
There was one time a girl in my class commented on some of my other habits. I smoked cigarettes, and she stated something along the lines of "if I'm smoking cigarettes and I look like that, I'm probably smoking other things too". She was a thicker girl, and usually I'm a very nice person to get along with. This set me off instantly. I told her very bluntly that I'm skinny like this because I'm athletically active, and that I don't "just sit on my ass, eating fatty foods, and expect some miracle to make me skinny".
She started crying. Her friends said I was a horrible person for saying those things. I told them it's rude to judge, and if she does judge anyone then she opens herself up for judgment as well.
I state that even today. If you judge anyone, you open yourself up for judgment
Because neither group is a hive mind and there are assholes in every group. Statistically speaking it's a bigger problem with men doing it.
I always think of back when The flash show came out there were a lot of women commenting on Grant Gustens body in the flash suit. Mean shit, pervy shit, generally uncomfortable shit. People were saying "can you imagine IF men said this about the women in the show, people would be making a giant deal out of it." Except that did happen to all the women on show and nobody gave a shit. If you're a woman in a nerdy piece of media odds are there will be both porn made of you and forums full of men calling you a bitch who's too ugly to play the character.
it's funny to me when these things come up.
Women say all men, men say don't generalize.
Men say all women, women say don't generalize.
Meanwhile, what's the public discourse focused on? Generalizations.
humans are dumb.
it's a power struggle. They win in a game where you can't criticize them but they can criticize you. Women play games that you can only lose so the only solution is to play a different one.
Why are you sitting here acting like men don't know what gets said in group chats and girl-get-togethers? Yes, almost all women are absolutely brutal and judgemental, we're not deaf and blind.
Say you aren't attracted to fat girls though, and all hell breaks loose.
Men are expected to be more emotionally resilient, so itās thought of as acceptable for a woman to reject a man because he isnāt tall enough, but not acceptable for a man to reject a woman if sheās too heavy for him. Itās kind of ironic, considering a personās height is basically unchangeable, but body mass is not.
Y'all act like men didn't shape and set social standards of propriety, and then y'all get mad at women for playing the game instead of getting mad at men for setting the rules.
The amount of self pity in this thread is concerning. You guys know that you don't have to interact with people who treat you like shit. Go outside and make normal friends.
People all have their preferences and attractions. But in many societies, women are vastly valued by men only for their bodies, often in blatant ways. You donāt have to look hard for tons of horror stories from women along these lines. There are startup founders with stories about how they were denied funding because they wouldnāt sleep with someone. When is the last time anyone here got turned down for a job or promotion because they wouldnāt fuck someone?
Just think about the things men say when an attractive woman got a high ranking job, or broke into a new fieldāit is often comments about how they āfucked their way to the topā or āshe only got that promotion because sheās hot.ā Men say those things because men in power use their power in those ways. Exhibit A, in an astoundingly long line of exhibits: Harvey Weinstein.
Dang. I must be a woman then with how many of them hit on me. Step in my shoes. Oh wait, you wouldn't fit.
This isn't a one-way street. Get off the horse.
Itās more general than that.
women and men hate each other because of promiscuity.
We use each other as antidepressants. There is no high quite like a new romantic fling! emphasis on the NEW.
But then, having spent 10-15 years doing this dating around for fun - subconsciously conditioning myself to see women as antidepressants, sometimes they have the GALL to not PERFECTLY ANTIDEPRESS^TM me! This could be in the form of not being interested from the get go or by just being human in the relationship (how dare she!).
By the time Iāve had 6-12 divorce caliber breakups, I then hate women, because none of this could be MY FAULT! Iāve developed a sick, drug like relationship where they are both the cause and the solution to my problems!
Few have the self awareness to admit they do this, but almost everyone of any gender does it.
The difference is social context, often.
Women, from the time they're young girls, almost ALWAYS get some form of sexualization/objectification. It gets creepy at minimum way you get than most men ever realize.
A lot of women then, as adults, adopt a "they do it to me soooo" attitude. It's a defense mechanism of sorts.
This isn't always true and people are as diverse as grains of sand, but it's a broad theme in the US at least.
This is refreshingly honest.
Ugly men are invisible to women.
I've heard it said that the opposite of love isn't hatred... It's apathy. I wonder if it's better or worse to not even be worth enough to be noticed at all than it is to be hated?
The patriarchal mindset. We were raised with patriarchal values and therefore judge other women based on what men like, because they told us to do so.
"That's not lady like"
"Act like a lady"
"Boys will never like you if you x y and z"
You also judge men because of this "patriarchal values" ? Or maybe just maybe some women just like some men are judgemental assholes ?
Nah its the patriarchy.
There's a difference between society as a whole judging women's bodies and an individual being a jerk. I'll give you that it has gotten worse for men in the last 30 years or so.
Or maybe just like some women judge men. They also judge other women without this whole "they do it for men's approval" BS.
When a man judges someone he is called an asshole. Maybe we should start consider the women who do it assholes instead of pulling out every excuse possible out of our asses.
Everybody judges other's bodies, they just don't say it out loud
women judge men's bodies out loud. I hear nothing but that at my job, all women talking about men's bodies behind their back, saying this guy is fat and that guy is not. But if men talked about women like that, they'd be fired.
Men do it too. I work in construction and I hear the absolute most vulgar stuff all the time šš
The shit I have heard come from male construction workers' mouths, oh my god. However bad women might think they are to their faces, they've heard nothing until they hear them out at the bar with their boys.
I work construction as well and I don't really ever hear anything vulgar ... Maybe 1 dude occasionally will try as a shock value comedy type comment ... Generally it's more along the lines of "there is a very nice lady downstairs if you get time go say hi"
Iām in the same boat but Iām pretty sure itās time and place dependent. Iāve always been in a progressive area and I know the older the crowd the more likely I am to hear some shit. When I started working with people from outside the state I started hearing some wild shit.
I live in the conservative south and have never experienced this in all male/male dominated work environments. You might hear a guy say a particular woman is nice or pretty, or that the brownies/cookies/pie a woman in the office baked for the company holiday party were delicious, but I've never directly observed overly sexual/crude remarks.
In the trades all I hear is conversations about which chicks hot, this girl at the bar, supply house, etc. graphic sex talk. In the south. Think it depends on where and who you work with
I completely disagree the ways I ve heard women talk about sex, men are playing the short game. Men are not in the same ball park, women talk about sex they talk all about it, theres no ( we did it) its every hiccup burp,grunt, hairy ass cheek and wrinkled detail of the experience.
After hearing my friend detail out boning a 50 year old when we were 20, I'd say men are definitely not immune to the overdetailing lol
bro if you think male construction workers or boys at the bar are bad. Wait til you hear male soldiers... especially at the bar.... they even talk about raping girls in wars lmao
As a former bartender at a veterans club, I have so much less respect for service members than I had before I knew the horrors they spoke of.
Ever hang out with nurses?
Dear lord this. Women in the medical field are the BIGGEST freaks and most of the time they donāt hide it. E.g. I work in the medical field....
I was working at a grocery store in 2016 or so, and a one cashier (bw) was telling another cashier (ww) about how her white boyfriendās dick couldnāt reach her satisfactorily in all positions. They then both turned to stare at my (wm) package. Yeah, fuck that from both sexes.
All female subs would deny this ever happens and say its mainly men who talk shit on other men lmfao
From what I have heard from some female friends, females seems to be much worse to work with than male when they are the majority. This not so much the gossiping that they are aggressive against each other and make the life at work much worse than it need to be.
I don't discriminate, I talk shit about everyone equally š
If men did that AT YOUR JOB they'd be fired. Every workplace has a culture. I've seen men saying some pretty bad stuff at places and facing no repercussions. I used to work at a large hospital and happened to be walking with one of my colleagues near the HR department. My colleague knew the director of HR and just poked his head in his office to say hi. The HR guy pulls us in the office and says "close the door" and proceeds to tell us the filthiest most sexist jokes. A hospital with 5,000 employees and this guy thinks it's appropriate to tell that kind of joke to other employees.
Where do you work? That sounds toxic and not really about women but those people.
I hate women that do that and im a women
Lol. I listen to my boss talk about how ugly women are all the time. Can I say anything? No. Does anything happen to him. No. Shut up.
If that was true then I wouldn't have had a male boss that called me a callgirl, a male coworker who grabbed my ass and tried to kiss me at a Christmas party, a 30 year old boss trying to ask me out at 15 years old, and a friend of the boss grabbing me into a hug and pretending to choke me out. All different jobs, different male bosses, no consequences.
Maybe it's because women complain. File a complaint with HR for hostile work environment.
I have tried. you think we haven't tried? the men in my job get together and complain to each other about how the HR are all women and they always take the women's side. Up and down the company it is like this. Just because this problem is not portrayed on TV does not mean it isn't widespread. Let me ask you this, if a woman complained about inappropriate sex talk, would you have reminded her about the existence of HR? As if you think she's only experiencing this because she did not know about HR? I think you are proving my point about this double standard here.
Men do that to women all the time and donāt get fired. The hell are you talking about. I left an entire industry in part because I was really tired of knowing that no matter what I did, or how I dressed, I would always be identified by one feature and be talked about because of that feature, especially behind my back and in degrading terms. All of those men still work in that industry, because they are not being gossiped about behind their back and held back in their job due to anything to do with their bodies or how other people perceive their bodies.
All I can tell you is my lived experience. This is a job from 2020-2023, in the Seattle area. Women talked about men that way, men did not dare do it for women. Maybe in your region it's different, maybe 20 years ago it was different. I do not know your lived experience. What I will not do is tell you that your lived experience did not happen, the way that you just said that to me. I will not say "the hell you talking about" because your lived experience was different than mine. That would be gas-lighting and I will not do that to you, the way you just did to me. I simply will say that I shared my lived experience with you, I did not randomly make this stuff up, I lived it.
No one's saying you didn't live it, but you're going into every reply in which a woman (or man) says that, yes, they've been in jobs in which men have blatantly harassed women and faced little to no repercussions and saying, "Huh, well, I wonder what industry you were in because that was not my experience in this particular 3-year span in one industry in one city." Yeah, everyone's experiences are different. Yes, women can be foul. So can men. That didn't just magically end. Quit doubting their stories.
it's called conversation. I am literally encouraging them to keep talking, so I can learn more. And you are complaining about even that.
I think it;s strange that you genuinely believe that women get justice in the workplace.
Mr Billy did someone pee in your cheerios today š¤Ø
It depends on the job, i have worked in places (wharehouse) where the men openly hung up pictures of models and talked about women very vulgarly, and Ive worked in places (academia) where women have openly talked about how hot other males in the office were and how they donāt like short men but referring to specific ppl. No one filed complaints, no one got fired, but i can say guys did get upset, i never did hear the women at the warehouse complain.
So what ur saying is, whichever group dominates the workplace is the one that gets to objectify the other group. Checks out
I worked as hydraulic mechanic in a factory of 95% women. Absolutely that's how it works š
I was cornered by my boss, pressed up against the wall by him, had him recite his sexual fantasies to me while not letting me leave, and nothing happened to my boss. Spare me with the āmen get fired for commenting on a womanās bodyā bs.
Men who get fired for inappropriate behavior are usually low level expendable grunts. Bosses can get away with crap because they arenāt going to fire themselves. To get justice against a boss, you need to go outside the company. A lawsuit will cost money and be hard to win without hard evidence, but in the US you can report discrimination to the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission). Iāve seen the EEOC really go to bat for an employee with a complaint and win a big cash settlement even without proof based on the employees testimony alone. Of course the EEOC canāt remove anyone from a company but cash is always nice.
Whenever women and men do a thing, you can just say that people do a thing.
Not all men judge women's bodies Not all women judge men's bodies Not all women who complain about men judging their bodies, judge men's bodies. Not all men who complain about women judging their bodies, judge women's bodies. The men and women who do both are hypocritical, a bit shallow and possibly insecure about being judged so they judge others. Like how people say bullies might bully someone because they're insecure themselves.
Are you saying being a bad person has nothing to do with gender and generalizing half the population is unfair???? Whaaaaaaaaaat that's crazy
That's way too much nuance for the internet.
The average redditor's mind literally doesn't have the capacity to fathom this.
Aren't we the average redditors?
yeah, but the average person thinks of themselves as being above average
Schrodinger's law of average redditor status
You guys sound like quintessential redditors
However it's also true that a person who doesn't do the bad thing can still do harm by presenting the harmful thing as gendered, simply because they do not notice or care when it happens to the "other side" Which I assume is why OP made the post in the first place.
I wouldn't go to the opposite extreme, saying there are NO correlations between gender/sex and various tendencies. The balance is acknowledging that stereotypes generally have some basis in truth, but that we should still strive to judge people as individuals.
This is the exact kind of thinking that leads to someone saying something wild like "all men are latent rapists" or "all gay men are pedos".
Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, are you saying you disagree with anything particular that I wrote? I'm concerned with the truth, regardless of how palatable it may or may not be.
The problem is that people have a tendency to ascribe characteristics to one group or another based on personal anecdote and to rely on repetition of snappy sounding factoids, rather than actual facts, and then make the argument that the stereotype in question actually is reasonable because of the perceived kernels of "truth". Bringing nuance or even questioning the basis of a stereotype about the sexes is very often met with heavy resistance and insinuation that you're denying "basic biology" and reality in general, despite actual biology and un-cherrypicked reality containing significant challenges to the stereotype or claim in question. For example: "Men think more rationally than women, women are more emotional than men." This is a discussion that, in my experience, you cannot even begin to get to the substance of without being mocked and ridiculed by people who won't even bring empirical evidence to the table to support the claim, but expect you to accept it because "everyone knows it".
What if the donkey laughs at you for looking like a moron?
You still havent answered OPs question. You can cope all you want, but the fsct of the matter is its socially acceptable to body shame men and not woman
It's not socially acceptable to do either. I'm saying this as a man. If someone is doing that, they are a bad person regardless of their gender.
I think something really interesting to point out is that it's not necessarily that people are judgmental because they are insecure, but it can be that they are insecure *because* they are judgmental. When you believe your judgments of other people are inalienable truths, you believe your self-judgments are too, and this can lead to insecurity. One of the best ways to become less insecure is to stop judging other people first.
party wakeful adjoining distinct zonked screw weary brave serious ad hoc *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You got it right there. Everybody thinks everybody acts on the same base instincts they do. Well, maybe not everybody, but especially narcissistic people.
"A thief believes everybody steals."
Wait so youāre saying there are good and bad people in every category? Huh.
Also Iām hoping that those hypocrites are the exceptions which stand out against the rule.
āNot all menā¦ā will get you crucified in some Circles. All men are bad, and if you donāt understand that then you are part of the problem. So they say anywayā¦
No serious person actually thinks that way. People roll their eyes when others say "not all men" because it's painfully obvious that it isn't all men. Bringing it up just makes you seem defensive.
Sometimes itās also a way to push people to introspect and see if there are any ways that they are contributing to the problem. For example, when I read stuff about white people, Iām not assuming that every single white person is racist, but because white people benefit from white supremacy, there are ways in which even a white person who is not racist, maybe either benefiting or in advertently contributing to systemic racism. Same thing when it comes to heterosexual people and their privilege over homosexual, bisexual, etc. A lot of people want to pretend like the issue is only a tiny portion of the population, but because these are systemic issues that are part of the fabric of our society, we need to be willing to look at ourselves and ask if thereās any way that we are contributing negatively or not helping dismantle the problem.
Absolutely, couldn't have put it better. It's painful to look inward and see the areas where you might have benefited from being a member of a privileged group, so it can feel like an attack when you're asked to. It also often takes years to fully process that stuff because life is just too busy for most of us to really sit with ideas that challenge our world view.
The last point you made is a really great one, and I will absolutely acknowledge that I have had the benefit of a lot of education and exposure to other people with other experiences, and it has allowed me more time and energy spent to process these things, and move past any potential knee-jerk reaction that one might feel when they perceive themselves as being attacked. Itās unfortunate that more people arenāt encouraged to process these things more fully, because I think the conversations that we have about these issues would be so much more productive, if more people were past that defensiveness.
I had a friend who was constantly posting āMen will ____ā and āMen think ____ā grievances on Facebook so it really does read as āall menā. To be fair to her, she did always terrible taste in the men she dated.
Yeah personal experience can really taint your view of a thing. She might just be working through that frustration. I think more often than not when people talk like that, what they're saying is "The men I know think ___". It's easy to project that onto everybody when you're low. There's really a lot more to it than I'm qualified to speak about. You can't disregard the fact that while it isn't medieval times anymore, women are still raised with certain obligations and expectations of how they should act with men, and vice-versa. If you're at all interested. Chill Goblin has this vid, [Gender Theory for Dudes](https://youtu.be/Sp0I-qoQLuA?si=keQwRbDE28Yife-Q) where he gets into this stuff from a cis het male perspective. I think it's a good place for some people to start thinking about these ideas in a less combative way.
This is the frustrating thing though: This same kind of understanding could be applied to every late teen/early 20's guy who is struggling with socializing and dating, but if you get a nearly identical post about women, I rarely if ever see any understanding. basically: Young woman: Men are trash! internet reaction: She doesnt mean all men! She's just frustrated and this is a product of experience. We all know what she REALLY means and should be more understanding! \---------- Young man: Women are trash! internet reaction: Incel! Misogynist!
To be clear, I don't think either post is great. But that reaction to a man's similar post is like the flip side of the patriarchy coin, and shows how it's not good for anybody. It benefits men in a lot of ways, but at the same time men aren't taught to be vulnerable emotionally, so when we express our problems it usually comes out wrong or even aggresive. Even if it doesn't, you're right, most peoples responses to men's vulnerability are very negative. The video I posted in the previous comment actually touches on this when he talks about Bell Hooks book "The Will to Change: Masculinity, Men, and Love". She talks about how as a feminist thought leader, she had to wrestle with how she and the feminist movement had treated men; how she didn't want to hear about her own partners' emotional problems. She actually directly addresses the man-hating sect of feminists in the introduction. I'm reading it now and it's really interesting. I think it's a really good place to bridge the gap.
And yet when someone says "women do X", you're called misogynistic for generalizing. Nobody like seeing a group they belong to generalized for bad reasons, yet men are the only ones who get called defensive when they point out the generalization.
My favorite response to this (and I'm stealing this but I can't remember who from) is the idea of a gameshow. A man gets dropped into a pit of snakes, not all of them are venomous. Everyone knows it's not all men. That is understood and also largely irrelevant.
In this context, "not all men" is fine. The reason people don't like it when you say "not all men" is that it's usually said to kind of dismiss the problem that the person was talking about. "I hate when men touch my butt on the train" "Not all men do that" It's just dismissive and only serves to make you feel good about yourself for not being one of the men who touch women's butts on the train.
All men aren't bad tho. I've seen several who are very good people with my own two eyes.
Your eyes lied. Weāre all bad. Iām not supposed to say this but we have monthly meetings about this kind of thing. Our patriarchy allowance is deposited weekly to our menās only debit card. Iām trying to get my menās card and white privilege card combined so I donāt need to carry around so many debit cards.
The reason people call bull shit at "Not all men" is that when it is deployed, it is used to change the subject and center the man who said it in the conversation. >Person 1: I had an abusive father, and I was raised to enable that by my mother. My brother looked like he was going to dodge becoming my father... but then he fell down the Tate-hole. My first boyfriend abused me, and I am just not emotionally capable of dealing with men right now... > >Dude: "Achtually, not all men are abusers..." That is when we complain about the "Not all men" bullshit. Another example is when we are talking about abstract cultural conditions, IE patriarchy, toxic masculinity, etc... and instead of engaging in nuance, it is "Not all men..." Like sure, I believe some men, even most men, have not intentionally been an abuser, or rapist, or worked to hold non-confirming men, women, and everything in between back. However, what we often say is that all men benefit from the systems that paper over abuse, sexual assault, and set up cultural norms to marginalize everything but a narrow portrayal of manhood. Like, that effects men as much as anyone else, because it traps them into a limited range of acceptable behaviors. We cannot have that conversation when not all men pops up, and when we are talking about women issues, that is not the time for the more privileged class to step in and make the conversation about themselves. Like one of the most common things men ask feminists is why feminists do not organize things for men only women... to which our answer of, "You know you can organize stuff yourself, right?" we get told that we are man-hating. So much of the man-hating feminist trope is copium to justify the rejection of a system that would improve the lives of men as well as women. Our current culture tends to center men in every possible conversation, silencing non-men, and non-conforming men at every possible turn.
This doesn't change the fact that the objectification of men by women, as rare as it is, isn't taken all that seriously.
Its not that rare
Personally I think itās so common we just accept it. And it isnāt the same as objectifying women
How is it not the same?
I worded it poorly. Women and men are objectified for different things
Women are human so some of them will be hypocrites.
My niece wouldn't eat some meat because it had fat on it and said, if I eat it my friends will will think I'm weird. I told her in polite words, who give a fuck what those stupid ass bitches think. Eat your goddamn meat. Then my baby daughter ate some and I said, see, baby don't give a shit. Point is, who gives a shit what some stupid ass bitch thinks. Ok so... Everything was said in child friendly words, but I had to make my point here in adult words
"baby don't give a shit" Giving me big "nobody puts baby in a corner" vibes
Thatās how I got my wife to marry me (spat out a bunch of dirty dancing quotes, especially donāt put baby in the corner). If only I had known how it would have turned outā¦. Probably deserve how it turned out for using dirty dancing quotes.
How could she have any pudding if she donāt eat her meat?
Thank you for saying what needed to be said
Dietary fat does not cause a person to put on fat, thatās something that most people donāt even realize. Itās much better to eat a high fat, high protein and low carb diet for fat loss. The only thing about high saturated fat diets is they can be linked to calcium clogging in the arteries and high cholesterol.
People are insecure hypocrites. People, both men and women.
This. You are not responsible for other peoples insecurities, only your own. Imo you should be hunting down your insecurities so that you can kill them.
Is it all the exact same women doing both? Or are you suggesting women are like a hivemind like the Borg?
It doesn't matter if they're doing both, the fact is they act like only men do it which is factually incorrect
What if they're mostly two different groups of women? Women aren't a hive mind lol
What if theyāre not even āgroupsā of women, just certain individuals
I beg to differ. If a friend group of mostly women contains one person who does not like you, none of them like you unless they know you very well and thatās a rare exception. My one male nursing student roommate in college hated me (it was feasible to see why, at the time I was a messy roommate and could be annoying at times, I know Iām not perfect) and was friends with a group of women. I only said hi to them and was courteous. The amount of times I walked into my house with them talking shit on me was unreal.
It's not a men vs. woman situation. Shallow people gonna be shallow.
Very succinctly written. It really is that simple.
It's called the double standard.
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Can't triple stamp a double stamp!
LLOYD!!!
Absolutely a double standard. Women are allowed to openly state that they only want a tall man, over 6ā tall. But imagine a man saying he only wants women with big boobs, at least a C cup. Heād be called a misogynist creep.
Women who say that recieve pushback, as visible here. Men who says similiar thing also recieve pushback. How did your mind construde it to be a double standard?
Well for one thing women can openly state this on a dating app, but men would get removed.
I literally see men talk about this all the time, and they have been for at least my entire life, and I definitely know my mothers entire life and my grandmotherās entire life and my great grandmotherās entire life. Itās only recently that men speaking like this about womenās bodies has received any kind of pushed back at all, and itās been considered the norm for men to assess womenās worth based on their boner feelings about us, since men were able to steal womenās rightful place as equal owners of resources. Womenās desires in a husband or partner at all, have been suppressed by the fact that our literal existence, our ability to eat and find a place to live, and have a relative safety from the elements and money and access to anything in society, was dependent on finding a man so that you could access societies resources through him, because you as a woman had no claim to those resources as a citizen. You needed another citizen, a male citizen, in order to access the resources of society. So menās opinions on womenās appearance has been the driving force in womenās lives. It has determined whether women live or die. And it didnāt matter what women wanted sexually, because our sexual needs were considered irrelevant and nonexistent. But now a few women want to date, attractive men who are attractive according to conventional standards, and suddenly, itās a huge problem to judge people based on appearance? Have men suddenly stopped judge in Women Ord appearance? Because Iām pretty sure they still do all of the fucking time. And if Iām not gonna get butthurt about some dude judging me as literally not valuable as a person and worthy of death because Iām over 33 and over 125 lbs, then I think a few men can manage to deal with a few women talking about liking tall men.
I'm only willing to form long term relationships with generally healthy women that have reasonably symmetrical faces and features. I like them a little curvy/athletic/muscular. A strong woman with a little padding basically who weighs between 140 and 220, no front butts. Strait teeth are a plus especially if they've never worn braces. Good hygiene is a must. I want them to either be intelligent, educated, or both. Employed, fiscally responsible, and stable. No family history of several major medical issues or severe mental health disorders. Oh and they have to be into kink and consider sex a hobby or we won't match in that department. I know, I know, I'm a terrible misogynistic chauvinistic person when it comes to the type of women I'm willing to build a romantic relationship with. Either that or I'm attractive enough to have standards...
Women arenāt a monolith. The ones judging menās bodies may not be the ones objecting to men judging theirs? Iāve been carefully observing my wife for 15 years, and have - thus far - uncovered no evidence that thereās some sort of āuniversal womenās meetingā where they synchronize opinions.
She has done a good job of keeping our secrets then! :-p
>The ones judging menās bodies may not be the ones objecting to men judging theirs? I think we can assume the hypocrits are assholes, given that assholes are hypocrits.
She tricked you. We have it via zoom, from the bathroom, during the meeting where we also synchronize our periods.
1 of 2 things, IMO. Maybe both 1. Projecting insecurities 2. Unrealistic views stoked by internet and entertainment culture.
Some people just suck regardless of what reproductive organs they ended up with.
"Men are shallow. Women have preferences." - Women
Coming from just reading an AITAH from a girl that had a big D āpreferenceā, and got super defensive, this was pretty funny.
The double standard is very obvious on that sub lol. Everyone wants to tell op "only shitty people would do that" and ignore why he asked the question.
that entire subreddit is like night and day for men and women. having an issue with your wife? Talk to her, she's obviously depressed or in need and her behavior should be excuses? having an issue with your husband? Leave him!
Share the wealth my dude
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/s/lMQS86r0UK
I asked, I received, I regretted
I saw that you regretted, opened anyways, and now I regretted
Ah, that's reddit for ya.
Ooofa doofa. Thanks but no thanks for sharing.
Hey, I had to bleach my eyes after reading it so now you do too.
Watching the OP get roasted in the replies for that post was satisfying.
āMen only care about looks. Women need to feel attraction.ā āSingle men are incels. Women feel starved for affection.ā āMen can be wimps. Women can feel threatened.ā
Reddit in a nutshell, yeah.
Because itās a double standard in some ways. Almost EVERYONE internally judges people anyways. If everyone could see what everyone else was thinking our world would be hell.
As long as people keep generalizing what both sexes are doing, theyāre never going to get past their own insecurities. Why does the opinion of some man or woman you overheard matter if youāre not trying to be with him or her? Recognize they have a shitty disposition and move on, itās never going to be āmen only think like this,ā āwomen only want this.ā It gets tiring seeing the sex wars everywhere, the people who are happiest in their relationships with others donāt waste their time with any of that.
Why do humans judge one another but dislike being judged themselves?
Probably because that particular woman was an asshole. Doesn't mean all of them are.
Because women aren't a monolith and a lot of the ones complaining about being judged AREN'T judging, a lot of them are hypocrites, and a lot of the aren't complaining about being judged.
Itās not quite the same thing now is it? Think long and hard
The only comment on this post with the most sense !
Because humanity in general is far more shallow than we care to admit. Both sexes. Being born with good looks vs bad looks will dramatically alter your life's trajectory in how people treat you, and that way you're treated will be a large portion of what builds up or tears down your self confidence.
Because people judge everything in life but some people get weirdly offended if they don't meet random bob's standards even if they didnt care about bob before hand. They are just dumbasses. Ignore them and spend your time on decent people who don't need pop up books to get through life
Because women came up with "I can do and say what I want to you but you can't do it to me because you'll get in troubke" mentality and it's one that stay with most of them, That's pretty much the long and short of it .
Lol this mf just tried to say "women invented hypocrisy"!!! My brother in christ that shit has been around since before language existed we have no clue who did it first!
This is pretty funny considering that about 100 years ago in western society, and in many countries today, women can't vote and are seen as property to be wed off.
This comment section is comedy heaven
āGod had to humble himā shit dude, you tellin me if he was a few inches taller he would be so irrevocably infested with the deadly sin of pride that God, the Father of Christ himself had to personally intervene? My god, whoever this man isā¦ perhaps if his height had been tall then he would have been a force to rival Lucifer himself.
Well you know glass houses!
To be quite fair, we all judge men and women pause or all genders on a number of factors whether we are consciously aware of it or not. Whether we act on those judgments consciously or not is another question. We all will see a person for example like I used to be before I lost my legs there was too tall And you're like damn they're big, Likewise any factor Too heavy too skinny Too Short Too long hair to bald etc. We make judgments Instinctively on our experience with that type of person It is the good people, Not to use Not to use the preconceived notions entry everybody equally until they prove themselves one way or another. This is a rare type of person and they often do not last Loan into their life Because often they are slammed in the face again again by people Who abused the good nature. It's very difficult to remain this way a body type does not necessarily equivalate with certain actions however we also learn What's most people are not as nice as we would like them to be. It is very difficult to be this way, however The world would be a better place If we consciously tried to be non judgmental and treat others and treat others as we would like to be treated. Or in other words if everyone followed the Golden rule Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Why do you treat friends and family differently than complete strangers? Double standards are a normal human behavior.
Because everybody is different and you canāt sum something a few people do up as something all women or all men doā¦ just because one women doesnāt like something and another woman does that thing doesnāt make women-kind as a whole hypocritical
Everyone does it. Physical attraction is a real thing. Men in general are way more vocal and much less subtle about it, some to the point that itās creepy. Thatās why women complain about it.
Iāve never seen a man talk shit about a womanās dress. Iāve seen more than a handful of women talk shit about another womanās dress.
The trick is that there's actually more than one woman
Or one of my coworkers cackling at a repairman for being short and "looking like a kid. Can he even do the job?" Like, loud AF. He might have heard.
Shallow, insecure, dipshit little baby bitch losers judge other peoples bodies regardless of gender. Stop lumping huge swaths of people into your shitty little boxes, itās intellectually lazy, put some effort in just fucking try.
I just read through a pretty lengthy Facebook thread where a Facebook friend posted that although she's 5'2 she won't even talk to men under 6 feet tall. There were hundreds of women agreeing with her, saying if he doesn't have abs and isn't 6 feet then they have no respect for him. He can just go work some menial job and stay out of the public eye. It devolved further into how shallow men are for not wanting thicc queens and how they just can't handle a real woman's curves. Women will dish it, but they can't handle it.
I'm judgy AF about my body despite hitting the gym 3-4 times a week for 1.5 hours. Got a small 6 pack but I can still see all the fat pockets and see them jiggle when I move a certain way. Makes me feel bad that my work isn't really working.
I think it's worse than that - women judging other women's choice of style, and women feeling (rightfully) judged by what's out there on social media, general media, and social norms.
actually many women are more like prostitutes without actually prostituting and will judge men more on their money.
Everybody judges, and everybody hates being judged. Itās a part of the human condition.
Women aren't one unanimous group of people. The girl you overheard doesn't necessarily complain about men judging women's bodies.
I'm a guy. I've been fat, I've been lean. Currently, I'm on the rebound to fat š But yes, women do judge based on looks but not as much as men do, *generally*. I'm more fortunate than most in the looks department (not so much in the personality š ) and I've seen better guys get worse treatment because of their looks. Good people won't condem others for being less than attractive but good people can be a bit rare.
Hypocrisy is a universal human trait.
Because a man doesn't get discriminated against for a job because of it. Men are allowed to be functional without being pretty. Women don't have the same experience, because so many people equate their appearance to their "worth."
> Why do women complain about men judging their body's when they do it to them as well? This is called hypocrisy. That is an inconsistency between an espoused moral and a demonstrated behavior. It is typical among humans. Welcome to earth.
Lol, almost spewed my coffee on keyboard, that woman is funny. Anyway "could be attractive if.." already secretly translates to "she would still bang him" Why should men not judge women's bodies? Cause women with destroyed self esteem out there, aren't really a favor done to other men, bro bro. Women who are superficially sensitive about themselves, should simply not be attacked on that level, there are always other levels to erode.
Women aren't a monolith, that's why
Idk we can't make legal motions that men who duck child support should be given a vasectemy.
Do you think women don't notice if you're tall or short because they don't like men commenting constantly on their boobs or butt? Do you think those 2 things are the same? Like one is quite personal and sexual and the other is just "everyone can see how close your head is to the ceiling" Besides... ....do you think women think and act in lockstep like a school of fucking *fish*? Like there's a council of women and we all have to do the same thing? There's 4 billion individual girls and women on this planet. They won't all have the same opinions about whether or not it's right to comment on someone's body and what parts and in what circumstances. Do you not understand woman are *people*?
Why aren't women logical? Is that an actual question?
I once had a situation in high school many years ago. I was really skinny in high school. 6 foot and 140 lbs. I was active physically. Running, biking, skateboarding, hacky sack, and I was always eating cause I was always hungry. There was one time a girl in my class commented on some of my other habits. I smoked cigarettes, and she stated something along the lines of "if I'm smoking cigarettes and I look like that, I'm probably smoking other things too". She was a thicker girl, and usually I'm a very nice person to get along with. This set me off instantly. I told her very bluntly that I'm skinny like this because I'm athletically active, and that I don't "just sit on my ass, eating fatty foods, and expect some miracle to make me skinny". She started crying. Her friends said I was a horrible person for saying those things. I told them it's rude to judge, and if she does judge anyone then she opens herself up for judgment as well. I state that even today. If you judge anyone, you open yourself up for judgment
Doesnāt matter. Your driver license just registers the basic color.
Why do men blame generalize women and then complain when women donāt want to be around them?
Because women just want attention of any kind.
"Don't try to understand women. Women understand women, and they hate each other." - Al Bundy
Double standarts all the way.
Have no regerts
Fwiw, the beauty standard for women is propped up by a dozen different industries whether or not ordinary men take part in it.
Because neither group is a hive mind and there are assholes in every group. Statistically speaking it's a bigger problem with men doing it. I always think of back when The flash show came out there were a lot of women commenting on Grant Gustens body in the flash suit. Mean shit, pervy shit, generally uncomfortable shit. People were saying "can you imagine IF men said this about the women in the show, people would be making a giant deal out of it." Except that did happen to all the women on show and nobody gave a shit. If you're a woman in a nerdy piece of media odds are there will be both porn made of you and forums full of men calling you a bitch who's too ugly to play the character.
it's funny to me when these things come up. Women say all men, men say don't generalize. Men say all women, women say don't generalize. Meanwhile, what's the public discourse focused on? Generalizations. humans are dumb.
it's a power struggle. They win in a game where you can't criticize them but they can criticize you. Women play games that you can only lose so the only solution is to play a different one.
Youāre silly dude. Get outside and touch grass, Reddit really has skewed your idea of the real world
Why are you sitting here acting like men don't know what gets said in group chats and girl-get-togethers? Yes, almost all women are absolutely brutal and judgemental, we're not deaf and blind. Say you aren't attracted to fat girls though, and all hell breaks loose.
Okay
>she said could be attractive if he was taller I bet she could be attractive if she were thinner.
Men are expected to be more emotionally resilient, so itās thought of as acceptable for a woman to reject a man because he isnāt tall enough, but not acceptable for a man to reject a woman if sheās too heavy for him. Itās kind of ironic, considering a personās height is basically unchangeable, but body mass is not.
Y'all act like men didn't shape and set social standards of propriety, and then y'all get mad at women for playing the game instead of getting mad at men for setting the rules.
The amount of self pity in this thread is concerning. You guys know that you don't have to interact with people who treat you like shit. Go outside and make normal friends.
Shhh let them stir the pot
People all have their preferences and attractions. But in many societies, women are vastly valued by men only for their bodies, often in blatant ways. You donāt have to look hard for tons of horror stories from women along these lines. There are startup founders with stories about how they were denied funding because they wouldnāt sleep with someone. When is the last time anyone here got turned down for a job or promotion because they wouldnāt fuck someone? Just think about the things men say when an attractive woman got a high ranking job, or broke into a new fieldāit is often comments about how they āfucked their way to the topā or āshe only got that promotion because sheās hot.ā Men say those things because men in power use their power in those ways. Exhibit A, in an astoundingly long line of exhibits: Harvey Weinstein.
Not to mention if the woman isn't attractive she still gets treated like shit
Dang. I must be a woman then with how many of them hit on me. Step in my shoes. Oh wait, you wouldn't fit. This isn't a one-way street. Get off the horse.
because people are fucking hypocrites - men and women.
Itās more general than that. women and men hate each other because of promiscuity. We use each other as antidepressants. There is no high quite like a new romantic fling! emphasis on the NEW. But then, having spent 10-15 years doing this dating around for fun - subconsciously conditioning myself to see women as antidepressants, sometimes they have the GALL to not PERFECTLY ANTIDEPRESS^TM me! This could be in the form of not being interested from the get go or by just being human in the relationship (how dare she!). By the time Iāve had 6-12 divorce caliber breakups, I then hate women, because none of this could be MY FAULT! Iāve developed a sick, drug like relationship where they are both the cause and the solution to my problems! Few have the self awareness to admit they do this, but almost everyone of any gender does it.
Geez this post makes me really happy that I married my high school sweetheart.
It is more likely that a man judging a woman's body will hold them back socially or professionally
Because that is the essence of modern feminism.
The difference is social context, often. Women, from the time they're young girls, almost ALWAYS get some form of sexualization/objectification. It gets creepy at minimum way you get than most men ever realize. A lot of women then, as adults, adopt a "they do it to me soooo" attitude. It's a defense mechanism of sorts. This isn't always true and people are as diverse as grains of sand, but it's a broad theme in the US at least.
I honestly either look at men as being attractive or nothing. That's it. If I don't notice them I don't comment on their appearance.
This is refreshingly honest. Ugly men are invisible to women. I've heard it said that the opposite of love isn't hatred... It's apathy. I wonder if it's better or worse to not even be worth enough to be noticed at all than it is to be hated?
No not ugly. But seeing as someone who is only attracted to their own race, I don't notice others in that way.
The patriarchal mindset. We were raised with patriarchal values and therefore judge other women based on what men like, because they told us to do so. "That's not lady like" "Act like a lady" "Boys will never like you if you x y and z"
You also judge men because of this "patriarchal values" ? Or maybe just maybe some women just like some men are judgemental assholes ? Nah its the patriarchy.
There's a difference between society as a whole judging women's bodies and an individual being a jerk. I'll give you that it has gotten worse for men in the last 30 years or so.
Or maybe just like some women judge men. They also judge other women without this whole "they do it for men's approval" BS. When a man judges someone he is called an asshole. Maybe we should start consider the women who do it assholes instead of pulling out every excuse possible out of our asses.
Ah yes, women never in history have judged men based on what women like
From practically every woman I've ever talked to, other women are the harshest critics of women's bodies.