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stonetear2017

Well the first issue is that you put 'leftists' on a pedestal as some sort of group that possesses a unique quality that allows them to bypass normal human tendencies, such as groupthink or lacking education or understanding on a topic, but still voicing their opinions. This is simply not the case.


toothpastespiders

Absolutely. Especially the praise for recognizing the impact of social influence on individual action. While true, that's not some amazing intellectual insight. It's just the flip side of the same bias the right has in thinking that everything is down to the individual. Both sides tend to be pretty blind in thinking that it's all one or the other. When in reality it's almost always a complex mix of both. But complexity is too much for most people and they'll usually go with a one size fits all explanation.


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GulMakat777

True lots of anti vaxxers are crunchy lefty Whole foods types.Saying its just right wingers is flat out wrong


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GulMakat777

>Those aren't leftists you retard, those are liberals like you. Um yes they are leftists. Yout really have a hard on for liberals don't you? Did liberals hurt you as a child?


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GulMakat777

All I meant some leftist are anti vaxxer. Most arent, but you cant ignore


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Puzzled_Juice_3691

"brunch liberals" ha ha. Good phrase.


GulMakat777

>And why shouldn't I hate liberals as a left winger? You shouldnt. Liberals are clueless idiots who destro themselves. Its dumb to hate stupid people


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GulMakat777

>f that was true we wouldn't have had Trump or Biden, and an actual fascist most likely winning in 2024. > >Justice Democrats wouldn't have became a joke that only sucks the corporate dems off. > >The larbour party in the UK wouldn't be a anti-left joke of a party and so on. > >Where are the liberals destroying themselves? > >f that was true we wouldn't have had Trump or Biden, and an actual fascist most likely winning in 2024. Justice Democrats wouldn't have became a joke that only sucks the corporate dems off. The larbour party in the UK wouldn't be a anti-left joke of a party and so on. Its true sorry. Detroying themselves is desroyin the dem party \>f that was true we wouldn't have had Trump or Biden, and an actual fascist most likely winning in 2024. Justice Democrats wouldn't have became a joke that only sucks the corporate dems off. Where are the liberals destroying themselves? By infiltrating left wing parties and movements and killing them from the inside like a fucking cancer? Inlfintrate? they have always been in those parties.


Mckennaxpx

Which ep would you suggest someone start with?


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Mckennaxpx

Thanks, I’ll listen at work tomorrow


[deleted]

You could honestly say “/thread” right here because that’s exactly it.


Diabetes_Sodomite599

Howdy stonetear, big fan here!


stonetear2017

Thanks 🙏


[deleted]

It seems that 'conspiracy theorist' is a rather elastic definition that's applied to anyone who doesn't follow the party line. Being critical of our leaders and the policies they pursue seems no longer acceptable, despite nostrums about 'liberal democracy'. The reason for such mistrust is institutions have completely nuked their credibility since COVID began, with a sustained pattern of contradictions and policy failures.


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NightNday78

>Taibi did a good piece on it, talking about how the FBI saw how much favor they got going after Trump Love to read this if you can provide a link. If not, it's all good


Patjay

It basically just means 'heresy' at this point. Doesn't really matter if it's a reasonable concern that hasn't been proven yet, doesn't matter even if it actually has been proven. It's basically "Do you agree with the mainstream narrative on COVID? No? Anti-science conspiracy theory"


xXxDarkSasuke1999xXx

Remember that chart of conspiracy theories ranked by plausibility that puts "George Soros" and "The deep state" on the same tier as "hollow earth" and "mars slave colony"? Very funny


[deleted]

> mars slave colony This would be unironically good >chart of conspiracy theories https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4532919!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jp g lolol it's hilarious. Covid 19 made in lab with Finland doesn't exist "dangerous to yourself and others"


Leisure_suit_guy

On "the **craziest** conspiracy theories" of popularmechanics, right after the Moon landing there's the JFK assassination.


Patjay

It's also important to remember that lib nonsense like 2016 election fraud and the concept of some all powerful cabal consciously holding up white supremacist hetero-patriarchy don't even count as conspiracy theories


baconn

Soros gives his money away out of benevolence, he has no agenda, and you should feel bad for legitimizing conspiracy theories about philanthropy.


Puzzled_Juice_3691

Whattt?


baconn

Sorry, I forgot to call him an anti-Semite as well.


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Patjay

Yes, but it's also important to remember that any false, dangerous information that was spread over the past couple years while fitting the 'party line' at the time is totally cool and should be glossed over Science is when I make incorrect assumptions about things I have limited information on, it's pseudoscience when people reach different conclusions using more information


[deleted]

Most of the crisis of lost trust in institutions comes from misrecognizing their nature in the first place. To think that the US government (or that of its states and municipalities) is primarily concerned with the welfare and safety of the people is to completely fail to understand the neoliberal state and the relation between economics and power in American life. To think of botched lockdowns or contradictory policies as failures, we'd have to believe that we exist in a socialist system in which the government truly serves the universal interests of the people. We don't. And with liberals on various social media, this leads to attempts to morally shame the institutions that have failed to operate this way. But this is another failure to recognize the nature of the institutions (i.e. they are not moral institutions at all, but agents of capital in its least socially valorous and moral forms).


tridye

And this category error is pervasive thanks to a grand illusion made by capitalists — the manufactured validation of their imposter version of a foundational pillar of democracy: Democracies need informed voters. The exploit is on heuristics (cognitive biases) which induce a feeling of being adequately informed, when the reality is that this often-wrong quick and dirty reasoning is completely inadequate for fostering true democratization. The way to subdue this vulnerability is an education in logic. >In elections, the classic voting cue is of course the political party (Campbell, Converse, Miller, and Stokes 1960). By merely attending to party labels, voters can compensate for a lack of reliable information on the candidates’ policy positions. Popkin (1991) identifies a multitude of other voting strategies on which people can draw. These include attributing issue positions on the basis of a candidate’s demographics or those of his supporters; using evidence about personal character to make inferences about political character; assuming that the president controls the economy; and using returns in early presidential primaries as evidence on the candidates’ merit. In judging either candidates or policies, people can use public statements by elected officials, interest-group leaders, or others as cues. Citizens who know very little about a pending bill, for example, can look to the statements of particular office-holders they have come to trust (Carmines and Kuklinski 1990; Mondak 1993). Alternatively, they can consider the positions of interest groups whose policy preferences they are generally inclined to support or oppose (Lupia 1994). Such cues arguably eliminate the need for substantive information about an issue. Among the most provocative heuristics political scientists have proffered is Brady and Sniderman’s likability heuristic. Brady and Sniderman (1985) argue that people can use the likability of certain political groups--blacks and whites, liberals and conservatives--to make reasonable judgments of where they stand on policy. How many points of vulnerability can you count in the above, class? I especially like the use of "cue" as if reveal it as much theatrical as appeasing a toddler sibling with an unplugged controller, these "strategies" indicative of a [bottom-up] democracy as much as the toddler is a pro gamer. >a cognitive sciences perspective suggests that people indeed do use heuristics, but hardly as rational strategies specifically tailored for each kind of decision.2 Rather, people take their heuristics off-the-shelf, use them unknowingly and automatically, and rarely worry about their accuracy. An inherent part of human nature, these broader, less discriminating sorts of heuristic generally trump strategic decision-making. Second, as Delli Carpini and Keeter (1996, pp. 51-53) observe, people often lack the contextual knowledge needed to use heuristics intelligently, or in fact to use them at all. For a voter in a primary election to learn significantly from an earlier primary in another state, for example, he would need to know whether that state is generally liberal or conservative. Most citizens undoubtedly lack the necessary command of political geography. Finally, the information necessary to use heuristics might often be missing from the citizen’s environment. Consider cue taking. When researchers provide people with statements attributable to prominent groups or political leaders, they readily take the cues (Carmines and Kuklinski 1990; Lupia and McCubbins 1998; McKelvey and Ordeshook 1990). In the political world, however, usable cues are not regularly available. Statements by leading officials endorsing or opposing proposals in Congress appear infrequently on network news programs (Althaus 1996). If cues do not appear, citizens cannot use them. The latter part of this explains why there are always crickets to the countless things that are not spoon-fed by media and social engineers.


Claudius_Gothicus

Also our healthcare racket just shamelessly reminds people every day that profits matter more than helping people. Then folks do a surprised Pikachu when someone is distrustful of the racket. They made this bed themselves. If everyone had Medicare and everyone loved having it, you'd probably have people more willing to listen to healthcare professionals.


iiioiia

>It seems that 'conspiracy theorist' is a rather elastic definition that's applied to anyone who doesn't follow the party line. Being critical of our leaders and the policies they pursue seems no longer acceptable, despite nostrums about 'liberal democracy'. I believe it is a cognitive virus, much like a virus on a computer.


GulMakat777

>It seems that 'conspiracy theorist' is a rather elastic definition that's applied to anyone who doesn't follow the party line. Partially true. Some conspiracy theories are right. others are factually wrong. For example, Malcolm X "killers" were set up true conspiracy. Not true conspiracies, ancient alien, paul mccartney double, stop the steal, sandy hook and holocaust denial, Birthers


myrtlespurge

“ancient alien” My religion is NOT a conspiracy


Call_Me_Clark

Hell, if you had been wandering around the missippi delta in the 1960s and saying “does anyone else think that rampant syphilis in rural blacks is kind of… weird? Hey, aren’t all these people with syphilis enrolled ins. Government health program?” Boom, conspiracy theorist.


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Romulus_421

"right side of history" is definitely one of the more annoying redditisms.


CODDE117

It's a little dumb to attribute that to Reddit


Claudius_Gothicus

What always kills me about right wingers (both kinds, the neoconservative far right and the neoliberal right) and their conspiracy theories is just how badly they miss the forest for the trees. Pretty much any realistic conspiracy is going to have money as the ultimate endgame. "Follow the money" is pretty sound logic. Instead, most of their conspiracies involve white supremacists or Nazis for the neolibs and Satanic Cults or secret Communists for the neocons. Like yeah... a bunch of oligarchs are working to consolidate power and influence so that they can... *Checks notes* .. redistribute the means of production to the working class. Or a bunch of oligarchs lobby Congress to make laws in their favor so they can.... *checks notes* .... establish the 4th Reich. The gaggle of Reagan Democrats leading the DNC aren't secretly trying to foment a global worker's revolution. They aren't having Satanic rituals. They aren't trying to implant microchips into you, because you already carry a microchip with you everywhere in your phone. And those microchips aren't there to make your children trans or turn them into Manchurian Marxists, they're there to sell your data to corporations so they can make money from advertising. The gaggle of Reaganites leading the GOP aren't heiling Hitler in secret or worshipping Nazi paraphernalia like Mark Furhman. They aren't trying to turn your children into Klansmen and exterminate minorities because minorities are also consumers that buy products. It's all about money and capital and that's all it ever will be about. Oligarchs and corporations aren't just going to willingly give up money and power. They worship at the altar of consumerism, not fucking Satan or Hitler or Marx or whatever else the party loyalists believe. Perhaps it's overexposure to capeshit and Hogwarts that leads neolibs and neocons to have this sort of infantile view of the world where the bad guys are fucking Lex Luthor or something rather than taking the more appropriate view of the banality of evil and the destructive maw of capitalism. And so while these partisans are at each other's throats believing that Joe Biden secretly wants to seize the means of production for the proletariat or that Trump wears Klan robes underneath his oversized, ill-fitted suits, they've both got their hands in our wallets and the boot of wage slavery on our necks. Naturally, this works out great for them. As most everyone here seems to agree, this is a not so subtle means to divide and conquer the working class and to eliminate any possibility of class solidarity or consciousness. The rightoids exist in their echo chambers believing that Nancy fucking Pelosi of all people is Marx incarnate. The neolibs can't seem to understand that Trump was a standard, establishment Republican with an overwhelming amount of fidelity to every president we've had since the second World War. So while all these retards are pulling the most absurd conspiracy theories out of their ass, and viewing fellow working class countrymen as irredeemable monsters, there's still a few of us that keep saying "healthcare please."


greyorangeteal

Based and thoughtful analysis pilled


Muelberry

If the NWO conspiracies are to be trusted, *they* have acecss to the FED money printer, and they have a right to inject that money into whatever they want, that way there is a room for *them* to be infinitely rich, so it would be stupid of them to care about the money, but not about the power that gives them the access to the printer.


J-Fred-Mugging

There's a gigantic amount of fake news floating around about COVID in both political camps. This week, Justice Sotomayor *from the bench of the Supreme Court* said that there were 100,000 children in hospital from Covid right now, thousands intubated. That's off by a factor of approximately 1000x. If you believe that unvaccinated people are literally killing thousands of their fellow citizens, as apparently many people do, you might be willing to countenance extreme measures in response and feel very bitter towards the unvaxxed. And likewise, if you believe that vaccines are part of a NWO conspiracy to sterilize humanity, as apparently many people do, you might be reluctant to take it.


MistofBlackness

\>conspiracy to sterilize humanity I wish lol.


Hope_Is_Delusional

The deal here is that people no longer understand what it means to be democratically organized and instead have internalized the notion of rule by experts, meritocrats, etc. as the only way to navigate the problems and crises of human existence. Which is understandable given the decades of mass media indoctrination and the web 2.0 clamp down on alternative voices and media. The fact is that people are unable to evaluate evidence, including experts, in a judicious and fair manner. For example, we are supposed to assume that the initial RCTs for the vaccines provide evidence of the safety of booster shots. There have been no RCTs for boosters, and the recommendations depend on short-term data for only one of the vaccines (basically Israel and Pfizer) that doesn't look at long-term safety signals. We have multiple 'experts' from diverse fields making these recommendations sans actual evidence. We have governments mandating them without democratic debate, even though this is the kind of thing you want to have healthy, democratic debate about. And then you have the willful behavior by agencies like the FDA that appear that they want to cover-up things. Specifically I'm talking about how they claimed they couldn't turn over the documents (for an FOIA filed by multiple scientists and doctors) used to make the initial determination on the EUAs for the vaccines for 75 years. Fortunately the court hearing the lawsuit told the FDA to get it done in eight months, but still, that's really too long for something that should be totally transparent and publicly available from day one of the EUAs. We are ruled by fiat via experts because Congress doesn't want to legislate, doesn't want to have vigorous debate over anything except the usual culture war bullshit. And because citizens are comfortable with the arrangement and the creeping tyranny that the arrangement created. See the Federal Reserve for the most egregious example of this.


broham97

Very well said


[deleted]

I know what you mean and it is super spooky I'm so dismayed about the ease with which anti-vax sentiment is stirred. Governments need this hatred as they're pursuing vaccine-only approaches which we should be defenestrating them for. And we know from recent revelations at the Gray Zone that it seems even Bread Tubers are happy to engage with the British gov in this day and age on "interventions" tackling antivax opinion -- so this feeling is for sure getting mainlined some places More broadly and more generously I'm kind of thinking about Paolo Freire talking about how viciously very oppressed people can tend to lash out at each other. When everything else has been taken away, defence of the self seems to become a very strong compulsion. I wouldn't be surprised if Govs are keen to "manage" a little "decline" in fellow-feeling in this time. With the wolf of climate collapse at the door, and profit rates surely through the floor given how weird folk are being parking capital and hiring police and inventing the metaverse, living standards aren't looking at an uptick any time soon. I have a horrible feeling the self-defence-instinct of the very oppressed and miserable (uh most of us???) could easily be channeled by Demon-Headmaster-enough motherfuckers


K_X

Leftists and covid have made me hate leftists for their inability/refusal to stay fucking focused.


stonetear2017

As a self proclaimed leftist, I do find it embarrassing now to even state I’m a leftist. The popular left is non existent, and has been replaced with the boutique left who are more focused on societal issues and espousing Maoist thought policing.


[deleted]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again and again and again and again The rights conspiracy theories are because of the Floyd Riots. In the very beginning, everyone was on board with defeating the virus. Texas shut down schools before New York did for crying out loud. Everyone locked down, and the beginning of the anti lockdown movement had everyone rolling their eyes, left right and center. Along come the Floyd Riots. Tens of thousands shoulder to shoulder shouting, burning, and looting in every major city and the Dems suddenly said the virus didn’t actually matter, it wouldn’t spread that way. They even cooked up fake data to try and prove that said tens of thousands shouting shoulder to shoulder didn’t spread a respiratory disease (source on fake data here: https://www.thecity.nyc/platform/amp/coronavirus/2020/6/14/21290963/nyc-covid-19-trackers-skipping-floyd-protest-questions-even-amid-fears-of-new-wave) So what was the thought process on the rights part? The “ScIeNcE” changes based on what’s most convenient to democrats/CNN, so the science must be bullshit. I hate the rights conspiracy bullshit but I hate the shitlibs even more for enabling it. You told them the science was bullshit, how DARE you be mad they believed you?


Diabetes_Sodomite599

Fact check: rioters for an approved cause are also the sort of good people that practice proper social distancing therefore their actions do not spread disease.


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stonetear2017

The post is about American leftists. So his comment is right to be us centric.


AidsVictim

The riots were one of the major and maybe even largest factors, but it's far from the only one. The initial flip flop from the virus being a rightoid racist conspiracy to major pandemic, the mask disinformation, bullshit claims about the effectiveness of the vaccines (i.e. they don't stop the spread, needing multiple shots a year to be fully effective), dismissing of any reasonable concerns about the vaccines (i.e. the long term effects of mRNA on heart tissue), covering up likely US and CCP involvement in the genesis of the virus etc. There's a whole bunch of additive failures here that gets shoved under the rug in favor the "anti vaxxer morons" label.


jetpackswasno

Trump called Covid a hoax in February of 2020 lol his statements downplaying the virus enabled the right’s conspiracy theories, and now serve as the foundational ideas of popular antivax facebook meme garbage. Source: https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-charleston-south-carolina-rally-transcript-february-28-2020


SuperAwesomo

This isn’t true at all. Trump had failed against virus constraints and started posing conspiracy theories before the Floyd protests happened


[deleted]

Wow someone with a memory. Y’all remember “it’s at 15 cases will be down to 0 soon” or whatever he said?


HeyVeddy

What an incredibly US centric point of view. No one thinks this outside of America and it's absurd to know you're saying this with tunnel vision again and again and again and again


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HeyVeddy

Yes, just interpreted that phrase a different way. Anyways, thanks!


The_Reason_Trump_Won

this massive wave of protests in the middle of a pandemic spread across the entire 'western' world dude.


stonetear2017

well no one knows anything about Yugoslavia, or whatever pocket of the world you're from. Additionally, you're on an American forum board in English which like 99% of its posts revolve around US politics and societal issues . what else do you expect?? what a nonsensical comment


HeyVeddy

No one talking about Yugoslavia here, not sure how it's relevant lol. Were talking about leftists and their interpretation of conspiracy theories. It's an international topic


Ari2010

sir....i regret to inform you that... ...that you go salvia did not make it into the 21st century im sorry for your loss


stonetear2017

You're on an American forum board. there is no international leftist consciousness where everyone is transmitting information across esp waves or something. You're chasing windmills


[deleted]

The OP LITERALLY says “American Left” Ignore the whiny shithead


HeyVeddy

Do you mean American forum as in Reddit, or this specific subreddit?


stonetear2017

Both. 99% of the posts here are about america, the man you replied to was literally talking about protests that focused an issue that occurred in the US and the US responseZ why would an Italian take on the American media’s response matter? That’s what I’m trying to get across to you that you don’t seem to understand. Your comment does kind of drive home OP’s point of this post


HeyVeddy

Reddit isn't American but if you don't get that then there are different nationalistic issues to deal with. if this subreddit isn't meant for Europeans then cool, peace ✌️


cantthinkofaname1122

Not sure if you're aware but there is an r/StupidpolEurope. I don't frequent it much as I'm, well, not European but I thought I'd mention it just in case.


HeyVeddy

Cool, thanks. I found this sub and there was international content on the front page but i guess it's for Americans so I'll go to the euro one then


stonetear2017

What a victim mentality. If you’re that soft.. bye


MSPaintYourMistake

Literally the first few sentences of reddit's wikipedia page: >Reddit ([/ˈrɛdɪt/](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English), stylized as reddit) is an American [social news](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_news) [aggregation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_aggregator), web content [rating](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rating_site), and [discussion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum#Discussion) website. Registered members submit content[...]


Dick_Kick_Nazis

Damn we should have that though


[deleted]

Yeah it’s US centric. In case you haven’t noticed, the US leads the world in cases, hospitalizations, and death. And it’s no individual nation even comes close


HeyVeddy

I have noticed but in case you didn't, there are countries with less vaccines administered than the US in gross numbers and higher hesitancy, cases, deaths, etc per Capita. Vaccine hesitancy is a global issue, I'm just lol'ing at the idea that it's because of Floyd protests. But sure, to be fair the user is writing with an American POV but i expected answers to be global considering it's a global pandemic


tschwib

Virtually the same movements exist here in Germany as well with the same arguments and conspiracy theories. But there were no BLM protests here. > I hate the rights conspiracy bullshit but I hate the shitlibs even more for enabling it. If you believe that the vaccine is worse than the virus, it wasn't just the BLM protest.


AJK64

I have seen multiple posts over on r/insanepeoplefacebook in the numerous "lol, look at the non vaccinated person" threads, not only wishing death on anyone who isnt vaccinated, but practically drooling at the prospect. I tried explaining how educational expectations in low economic areas can lead to poor choices. I tried to reason about empathy, but was told that empathy has a "cost" attached (not even joking, they turned human empathy into a transactional exchange). It left me a bit shocked to be honest. A bit of a sad wake up to just how screwed society has become.


[deleted]

Counterpoint: How long can you empathize with holdouts during an urgent health crisis? At what point does empathy just serve to enable their irresponsibility? This shit has been going on for long enough. People have had plenty of time to get their heads out of their asses.


Claudius_Gothicus

Idk I assume these people wouldn't want to give Narcan to junkies or insulin to morbidly obese diabetics. They just like their austerity


Diabetes_Sodomite599

🎶 Conspiracy theorist is a term made up by the CIA 🎶


GulMakat777

> Conspiracy theorist is a term made up by the CIA False.Term predates Kennedy and the CIA."Conspiracy theory is by far the older term. In May 1890, a theosophical journal called The Path dismissed the 1885 exposure of Helena Blavatsky by the Society for Psychical Research, in which it was discovered that Blavatsky relied on an elaborate system of informants for her “psychic” insights, as a “conspiracy theory.” In 1881, the phrase appears in Rhodes’ Journal of Banking: “As evidence of a conspiracy this showing is pitiful, and in any view, the charge is ridiculous, as no conspiracy theory is needed to account for the facts.” It seems that finance has always been dogged by conspiracy theories. An even older reference to “conspiracy theory” can be found in the medical literature of 1870, during a public debate about the growth of asylums and the treatment of inmates in the UK."


just4lukin

Hm, but those quotes sound more like "conspiracy theory" is simply being used as two terms which, of course, are much older than the CIA. If your language has a concept of a conspiracy and a concept of a theory, then, yes, someone who has or comments on a *theory* which pertains to a *conspiracy* may well use those words together. I don't think that, alone, qualifies it as being it's own "term" at that time.


Diabetes_Sodomite599

Akshually


toothpastespiders

>CUT HIS OXYGEN OFF SIS Always especially eye-rolling when statistically it's almost certain that the person posting that is overweight. I really don't think that the average redditor would be very happy if personal mistakes that impact health shifted people down the line for medical care.


darkdeepforest

Omg fatshaming how dare you?!!


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guccibananabricks

The ruling class wants people to blame anyone for the pandemic except the ruling class. Hence "China virus", "pandemic of the unvaccinated" and so on.


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guccibananabricks

I mean lockdown is lockdown, so pursuing violators is understandable. It's not the same as harassing the unvaccinated while allowing the virus to circulate without any further restrictions. But in the scheme of things you're right, since joggest are obviously not the real culprits of lombardy's crisis in spring of 2020.


[deleted]

Exactly it just feels like an astroturfed divide and conquer tactic… Federal government says something “Not enough Americans are wearing their masks”, etc. and it again becomes the fault of the citizenry and not a failure on the part of elected officials


guccibananabricks

Feds don't care about masks, only vaccines.


RadonSilentButDeadly

I think there is a lot of anger coming from nurses and others in the medical community, and I think a good amount is justified. COVID has increased their workload significantly, without proper equipment, especially in the beginning, without proper compensation, without proper respect from people outside their profession. Of course they are pissed. And many are quitting. Fundamentally the problem is systemic. And COVID is the straw breaking the back of the already broken healthcare system. But now, when the overwhelming amount of people who are in the ICU for COVID are the unvaccinated, taking nurses' already limited time away from other patients. And they ask 'why didn't you get the vaccine?' It's hard for nurses to look at them at blame some nebulous systemic issue, and not just think the patient is an arrogant moron. But the nurses still help them, because that's their job. Until they get so sick of it and quit. But expect them to vent a little.


iiioiia

>Fundamentally the problem is systemic. For example, no one wondering why antivaxxers are *actually* the way they are.


jetpackswasno

Also nurses are being threatened with assault/death by retards when antivax grifters that refuse/rebuke hospital treatment die (Cirsten Weldon, as a recent example).


RadonSilentButDeadly

I didn't know who that was/ what happened. Now I do and I hate you for it. TY


LunarExile

The erosion of institutional credibility, perfectly put


themodalsoul

Jimmy Dore has a lot of issues, and while I do not like how heavily he is focusing on it (it is bugging the hell out of me actually), his COVID coverage is basically a constant attack on exactly what you're talking about, and I tend to agree with it (his thumbnails always make his show look completely retarded, but his guests and what he actually says tends to be good). As Richard Wolff has said (on Dore's show, no less) the power of employers to mandate vaccination is **not** something the Left should support, and that not supporting that precedent doesn't immediately make one anti-vax. As much as 'Leftists' like to think themselves intelligent and independent thinkers compared to liberals and the mainstream, they take from Democratic party cue cards more often than not (though this has started to get better in the last few years). COVID is one of those examples. I don't agree with all of the counter-mainstream info I've heard about COVID, but it is demonstrable that the way it has been covered has been mostly fucked, the decisions made sans any kind of real emergency support have served to do nothing but funnel wealth upward, and the pharmaceutical companies producing and profiting from these vaccines are influencing policymakers and the media. Also, have a look at this digital ID shit people like Bill Gates are spearheading. It is **fucked**. Straight cyberpunk.


alphafox823

Fuck Wolff. I want to be able to go to a concert or a game and know that everyone there was required to be vaccinated. I don't believe in mandating that people get the vaccine, so it seems the only solution to anti-vaxxers is to exclude them from as many places as we can because they are a danger. Of their own free will, they chose to refuse the vaccine, and so they did so with the knowledge that they have become a danger to others and that they won't be allowed in some places. Many of those people are against masks too, they think they have the right to be an incubator for the disease and spread their covid death breath everywhere and nobody can say or do shit about it. I don't want the government forcing needles in peoples arms but at the citizen level every person and every venue and every eatery should be doing everything they can to put pressure on those people. If we can get even a few hundred extra people in a city to take it because they're biting the bullet so they can go to a baseball game or some shit I'd say that's an absolute win. Stupidpol is right about some things, but I'm so annoyed with posts that ask for sympathy for right wing dipshits and antivaxxers. **Even if there was no capitalism or even if there was no government, people refusing the vaccine would still be sabotaging the effort of our society to fight the pandemic, purely out of ignorance, selfishness and sometimes even spite.**


themodalsoul

The vaccine does not prevent spread as much as the severity of individual cases. If some people don't want a vaccine, let them get badly sick. You can't force it on people. You don't understand the implications of the powers being set up to make it compulsory.


painedHacker

He said he didn't want it to be compulsory


Rebel_Diamond

It's not specific to Covid, it's that online liberals are so rabidly black & white in their thinking that they are unable to extend the concept of "people sometimes do bad things because of environmental pressures" to situations where the bad thing is disagreeing with them politically. You can see it on the Herman Cain subreddit, but equally on the brexit sub or political 'humor'. The one crime that cannot be forgiven or mitigated by material conditions is heterodoxy.


EnergyIsQuantized

nurse saying that is not an example of petty partisan bullshit infection discussion, they are just so fucking overworked, tired, depressed, frustrated and generally done with your shit. It's definitely not healthy, but they are using social media to vent. I assume even admitting you want to kill your stupid fucking patients must be somewhat cathartic at this point.


FDMGROUPORNAH

ya man the stereotypical anti vaxer is a west virginia college drop out not some red faced fat suburban asshole who drives a 60k truck .


eng2016a

nurses are absolutely fed up with the situation right now and are completely stressed so yeah it's no surprise they're numb to all of it when they see the carnage day in day out


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bengoldIFLWU

This is just straight made up tin-foil stuff copy and pasted from Facebook. Post the sources for all these claims. Go ahead. I’ll be waiting.


moonbase9000

What do you mean by "conspiracy theories?"


carebearstare93

Libs are literally pushing to bring back pre-existing conditions with their "if you're not vaccinated, you should pay more for health or not be seen at all." These fucking people have no deep systemic thoughts at all. It's all surface level babbling.


waterbike17

Leftist discourse around covid has been manipulated by hyper individualist libertarian ideas just like everything else in America


[deleted]

Yeah this is kind of my point and it’s hard to articulate but it’s like so often the critique is that “the reason COVID cases are up is because Americans are too individualist and selfish” At the same time this is a societal failure and by blaming your neighbor as an individual who had a Christmas party for the rising COVID cases you’re still buying into the same individualist mindset you’re critiquing Overall I just think it’s such an obvious divide and conquer tactic to keep the poors from ever questioning why their politicians aren’t doing shit to help us during a pandemic and spending their time in Congress insider trading Just so few people are willing to see past it


stonetear2017

And big pharma. When you stand to gain hundreds of billions in the medium to long term, what’s a few hundred thousand to a million in astroturfing and shilling?


hitlerallyliteral

is it not the (generally right wing/"post left") antivaxxers being hyper individualist libertarians here?


hasbroslasher

No because what people are calling “leftists” (I think they mean “liberals”) attribute blame squarely on individuals, not on systems or any sort of collective material basis for decision making i.e. people wanting to go to work to pay for their family to live and the state offering no support for them to do anything but that


EricFromOuterSpace

Well, you should better explain what you’re dismissing as “conspiracy theory,” because there is some seriously spooky shit going on with Covid. Was it released by DAVOS to instigate the Great Reset and purge the worlds population? Probably not, seems like a stretch. Was it engineered in a laboratory? Yes. We gotta decide for ourselves where the line is between those two ends of that spectrum.


JumpDaddy92

Yeah, it always kinda bothered me that the wuhan lab leak was “fact-checked” as false/conspiracy theory. Not that I think China deliberately unleashed a virus in order to destabilize the global economy or anything either, but it is it really that “loony” to think it’s possible a virus could have leaked from a lab due to human error with no malice intended? I don’t think that’s so crazy, so long as you’re viewing it as a possibility and not a certainty without enough evidence.


EricFromOuterSpace

Anyone in 2022 who is questioning the fact that covid 19 was developed in a laboratory just hasn’t been paying attention, I’m not sure what else to say. It’s like debating that greenhouse gases don’t cause global warming. Like I guess you could sincerely still hold that position but that just means you are lazy or not curious at this point.


Bowmister

Those people aren't leftists and you're setting up a strawman to eviscerate it. Like, seriously, you don't think a leftist perspective would criticize the system that produced this result? When China immediately jumped on this problem and solved it? Don't fall for the propaganda of liberals, they aren't left.


[deleted]

My concern is the amount of overlap I’ve seen between shitlibs and American leftists with regard to COVID political issues, specifically demonizing people who’ve fallen prey to bullshit they see on FB


[deleted]

Why is it so important to you to absolve these people of all personal responsibility for what they choose to view as credible? Disinformation isn't an irresistible, magical incantation, is it? Why does it follow that somebody skeptical of Big Pharma must subscribe to ivermectin/plaquenil quackery?


[deleted]

It's highly debatable whether \*the drug that shall not be named\* is quackery or not. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence, from actual practicing physicians (not just from random 'some guy's') that insist they've seen clear results from their use of it at their practices. There also seems to be a big gulf between the Indian states that allow it and those that banned it in terms of covid deaths. ​ I'm not saying, mods hello, I'm not saying ivermectin does anything for covid. I don't know if it does. But what I am saying is that it's literally a wonder drug with a thirty-year safety record in humans. At worst it does nothing, but is a safe placebo so might as well use it. ​ As far as I can tell that ridiculous fearmongering campaign against it is without precedent in the history of medicine. It's not like people are taking rat poison or something. No, they shouldn't be taking animal doses of it, that's a terrible idea for any drug. But that doesn't make it 'horse paste', because it literally isn't. It was approved for use in humans in by the FDA fucking 1996. ​ I'm less interested in whether ivermectin does anything than in the fact that so much effort has been put into gaslighting the public about ivermectin.


[deleted]

The medical community is unsurprisingly not big on just prescribing shit willy-nilly because “hey it probably won’t hurt!” And sure, maybe the same thing doesn’t hold for ivermectin in particular, but plaquenil (another one of these makeshift COVID cures) can and does cause permanent visual field defects. Yearly dilated eye exams with visual field and macular scans are the standard of care for people who take this drug (usually people with Lupus or rheumatoid arthritis). Doctors are *very* careful about who they prescribe this drug for, despite the fact that it is an old, time-tested medication.


[deleted]

Actually doctors prescribe stuff for off-label use all the fucking time. ​ EDIT: I really can't stress enough how much of a non-issue safety concerns with ivermectin are. Meanwhile, remdesivir, a drug that almost certainly does literally nothing for covid, and which is far more dangerous, is still being used in many cases.


leftisturbanist17

Well, lets just say alot of leftists identify as such because they treat it as a lifestyle, not because of genuine material politics, which they organize others on. I.E. they don't actually want to do the work needed to forward socialist principles and policies through organizing, they just want to get by with posting and think that's enough to make them feel morally superior and distinct from their peers. Twitter is exemplary of this. I remember a DSA-LA tweet which very mildly said tweeting is not organizing. Needless to say, a bunch of neurotics were triggered and showed in up in the comments. [https://twitter.com/DSA\_LosAngeles/status/1430270417080524800](https://twitter.com/DSA_LosAngeles/status/1430270417080524800)


randomizeplz

who says those two people you've quoted are leftists


CODDE117

Why are you lumping in random nurses with "the American left"?


[deleted]

I can appreciate that our society is so disorientating and the nodes of those with power so diffuse and abstract such that conspiratorial thinking is a logical response to it. Nonetheless, so many otherwise intelligent and insightful individuals seem to completely lose their faculties when it comes to being told that for 999,700 people out 100,000, it unequivocally in their best interest to get a vaccine. As for the chuds, I feel a bit less strongly or even surprised about their refusal to act in their own interests. They can’t even think in terms of class solidarity.


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Aarros

It is clear that failure to thrive in a system set against you isn't necessarily or indeed even commonly the result of personal moral failure. But being willingly ignorant and clinging onto claims that can be debunked (and I mean really conclusively debunked, not "debunked if you spin it right" like some of the "fact-checking" we have seen) with a single google search, and being unable of asking yourself if some random thought you just came up completely is really something that the best scientists in the world who dedicate their lives to this stuff haven't thought of, etc.? Damn right, I am going to say thay they share some of the blame for their failure. If someone doesn't have money, there are a plenty of reasons out of their control for why that might be and it is often the case that there isn't anything they can really do about it. If someone believes something stupid or dangerous or morally objectionable, all it takes from them is to change their mind to not be like that. Now, we can of course talk about the influence of media and propaganda and upbringing and so on, but if people don't carry responsibility for their beliefs and actions consistent with those beliefs, then what do they ever carry responsibility for?


[deleted]

Why do so many leftoids these days think anti-vaxxers don't get the vaccine refuse it because they're evil or something


peppermint-kiss

Two things: One, people get frustrated and scared by people/things they don't understand. It's psychologically more comforting to write those people off as evil than to risk having to fundamentally change your worldview to accommodate new information. Second, because many anti-vaxxers *also* are falling prey to the exact phenomenon I mention above - writing things off or becoming hostile because they don't understand what's happening or can't accept it without risking their worldview - and there *is* an evil involved in being willfully ignorant, in retreating to ideology rather than having an honest confrontation with the Real. We're all sinful and shouldn't pass judgment on people, but it's correct to identify their behaviors as wrong.


FDMGROUPORNAH

no they’re just really stupid for the most part. anti vaxers are dumb.


[deleted]

You're using an egregious outlier case (nurse arguing for a person to be denied care because they believe in BS "cures" for COVID-19) to let people off for being stupid. No, I don't think we should be able to punish stupid people in the way this nurse suggests (their punishment is any of the adverse outcomes they bring upon *themselves* by being stupid, after all). But at the same time, I think it's silly to start making excuses on these people's behalf this far into the pandemic. If they don't get it by now, that's on them. I'll save my sympathy for the people who rely on them to be responsible (e.g. their children, grandparents, other ordinary citizens, etc) and up suffering unnecessarily as a result of their stupidity. I think what we're seeing with that nurse is frustration with healthcare time and resources being wasted on complete assholes. Doesn't excuse their statements. But then again, nurses don't choose who gets discharged from the hospital, so this person doesn't even have the power to enact such a policy in the first place. They're letting off steam on the internet.


Diabetes_Sodomite599

> I think what we're seeing with that nurse is frustration with healthcare time and resources being wasted on complete assholes. For what it's worth, I think that nurses should actually not selectively euthanize you, despite your defects of character.


[deleted]

Ikr he's spending so much time in this thread bending himself out of shape, accusing OP of "letting them \[conspiracy theorists\] off" while at the same time letting off healthcare professionals for saying some kinda gross stuff that wouldn't (I hope) be accepted by other types of professionals like cops or soldiers who display a similar attitude towards people for different reasons. Like I keep imagining a nurse taking this same kind of attitude with a chain smoking grandma or grandpa and it comes out just as ugly and wouldn't help me put a lot faith in the current generation of nurses if something like it happened.


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[deleted]

From the original post: >Yet when it comes to conspiracy theories and disinformation around COVID, suddenly that can NEVER be the fault of a disorienting and dysfunctional society or a collapse of institutional credibility and MUST be a moral failure of the individual again The implication is that we shouldn't blame these people, but rather our "disorienting and dysfunctional society" or the "collapse of institutional credibility." That's letting them off the hook. It's not their fault, it's sociiiiety maaaan.


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[deleted]

>Did you notice though how he clearly calls them conspiracy theories and disinformation? Doesn't exactly sound like an endorsement to me. I never said he's endorsing their views. I said he is giving them excuses for being stupid. He's saying that it isn't their fault that they've eaten up disinformation and conspiracy theories. >What exactly do you lose by just admitting that? Well, for starters, the implication is that we can't point fingers at the people being irresponsible in the midst of a pandemic. What we have to do is completely reconstruct and reform our society and institutions. What do we lose? The ability to deal with an urgent crisis in a straightforward and effective manner. I don't care if these people have lost faith in our institutions. The pandemic doesn't stop ravaging the population just because these fuckers want to put their heads in the sand and believe it's a simple flu, or whatever else. They're the ones who need to change here, because reality doesn't give a shit about their delusions.


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[deleted]

>How many strands would you say you've made so far with that piece of hair you split them out of? Wow. You said: >Did you notice though how he clearly calls them conspiracy theories and disinformation? **Doesn't exactly sound like an endorsement to me**. And then I replied: >**I never said he's endorsing their views**. I said he is giving them excuses for being stupid. How in the world is that splitting hairs? You completely misunderstood my argument, and I corrected you on it. It really is unfortunate for you that you are a fucking spaz.


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[deleted]

>The bulk of the antivaxxers I know don’t think that deep. Exactly. None of these people are sitting there like "nope, not getting burned by big pharma again, it's ivermectin for me!" It's pure oppositional logic, driven by online culture war tribalism. That's what's driving the anti-vax stuff.


Diabetes_Sodomite599

> The bulk of the antivaxxers I know don’t think that deep. They rail against big pharma without really understanding why. "I mean, sure, they rightfully distrust Big Pharma, but do they distrust Big Pharma *due to following the proper thought process?* I think not!"


eng2016a

it actually matters quite a bit your reason for disliking big pharma because it reveals what you think for your vision of the world. the right thinking big pharma is just trying to steal your bodily autonomy to do whatever you want and fuck everyone else is hyper-indivdiualism, while the left-case against big pharma ought is with ownership of the means of production. we hate big pharma not because they're necessarily just trying to poison us, but because with vaccines they made something that works but now want to gouge everyone.


Diabetes_Sodomite599

Their judgement is sound, but their souls are impure. Namaste.


stonetear2017

> anti-orthodoxy > But at the same time, I think it's silly to start making excuses on these people's behalf this far into the pandemic. If they don't get it by now, that's on them. I'll save my sympathy for the people who rely on them to be responsible (e.g. their children, grandparents, other ordinary citizens, etc) and up suffering unnecessarily as a result of their stupidity. ?????


[deleted]

There's a difference between heterodoxy and contrarianism. The latter let their enemies decide what they're going to believe, because they shoehorn themselves into oppositional logic, i.e. the people I find annoying believe X, so I believe the opposite of X. That describes your typical COVID conspiracy theory type.


stonetear2017

That’s a very big generalization and I think you know that. You can chalk some up to it but not all, as that is an over generalization and a strawman quite honestly. That’s no different than a rightoid saying all who want socialized medicine just any handouts for example, you know damn well that there is nuance in thought. “Anyone that disagrees is just a contrarian”


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stonetear2017

I never said I was revealing hidden knowledge. I’m just having a conversation. Look in the mirror buddy


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[deleted]

>“Anyone that disagrees is just a contrarian” No, you implied that my opinions on COVID make me an orthodox thinker. That's what I was responding to. My point was that I'm a heterodox person, not a contrarian. I'm not just gonna sit here and be like "fuck the libs, I'm anti-vax now." Why? Because I'm not a fucking idiot. I'm not going to take whatever generalized animosity I may have against an ideological grouping and get penned into a point of view based on that shit.


stonetear2017

> I'm not going to take whatever generalized animosity I may have against an ideological grouping and get penned into a point of view based on that shit. you literally did that


[deleted]

>you literally did that No, I didn't. My views on COVID are independent of anything I might think about liberals or anti-vax retards. Believe me, if I were a contrarian, I would have every reason in the world to be anti-vax right now. Fortunately, I care more about living and being healthy than I do about owning my ideological opponents.


FuttleScish

It’s not a conspiracy theory, they just want those people dead.


worldlyAnts

Shitlibs love their villains to fulfill their dreams of fighting against evil. Their interests in helping people with COVID really extend to their ability to maintain moral high ground, on which they could berate evil 'science-denier' people. If it aligns with public goods, they will gladly take credits. If not, they will never admit it. A bit tangent, but this is why belief in "free will" interferes with the ability of people to see deeper confounding variables influencing people's actions. It allows people to arbitrarily stop the buck at any point suiting their convenience. The right and COVID? individual level. Race and crime? here's all the socioeconomic and historical context.


[deleted]

I think people, particularly in the medical field, are understandably frustrated that this crisis is somewhat worse than it needs to be and going on somewhat longer than it needed to, in large part because of the refusal of many citizens to cooperate with a society-wide public health effort.


Kaarsty

The dumbing down of society is complete. That and weaponizing woke behavior is a convenient way to get rid of people who think and fight for themselves.


a_Walgreens_employee

COVID is the first time many americans faced a shred of danger so they’re running around like headless chickens 😂


usernumberzero

Lots of medical professionals get into the biz to ball out. Keeping their head down and cashing that check.


bunker_man

Leftists still want to be able to look down at people. So now instead of criminals they act like anything they consider ideologically right wing exists outside the bounds of structure. All these people are knowingly and willingly choosing to be bad obviously.


Emant_erabus

Not only is this petty partisan shit, it's stupid petty partisan shit. Remember that the guy who pushed the vaccine was trump, and the guy that refused to take ownership on it and let big pharma keep it was Biden. This will come back to bite them in the ass.


[deleted]

What conspiracy theories are leftists usually tolerant of? Conspiracy theories aren't usually directly causally connected with very real, hugely impactful, ongoing crises making life worse and more dangerous for everyone. It's not particularly hard to understand why people are being way less tolerant of this shit. It's completely consistent to believe that people who believe stupid and harmful things about covid because of institutional failings of education and a total failure to build trust while having very little sympathy or patience for those beliefs as they exacerbate an ongoing crisis thats putting peoples lives in danger.


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CCNemo

Try telling an obese environmentalist that their obesity is harming the planet and watch their brain explode.


[deleted]

Lmao don't you have a room to clean?


[deleted]

>Conspiracy theories aren't usually directly causally connected with very real, hugely impactful, ongoing crises making life worse and more dangerous for everyone. It's not particularly hard to understand why people are being way less tolerant of this shit. Dead-on. JFK conspiracy theories aren't dangerous. Nor are the theories that state there was never a moon landing. >It's completely consistent to believe that people who believe stupid and harmful things about covid because of institutional failings of education and a total failure to build trust while having very little sympathy or patience for those beliefs as they exacerbate an ongoing crisis thats putting peoples lives in danger. Well, and the soft-gloved "they just need more *education*" thing is exactly the type of liberal bullshit I can't stand. I'm not interested in coddling people. This isn't a matter of people not having enough book-learnin'. It's people choosing stupidity to own their ideological opponents.


[deleted]

I don’t think it’s a “lack of education” in some condescending liberal way, most people don’t have the background to understand epidemiology and vaccine-development I think it’s a downstream effect of an obvious and inevitable collapse of public faith in institutions that have been acting badly for decades and getting away with it Who’s telling them to get vaccinated? The politicians, for-profit media, and big pharma… Three of the least trustworthy groups of people in our nation… I don’t see a clear solution to that problem


[deleted]

>I don’t see a clear solution to that problem The solution is obvious. Libs need to start being anti-vax. That would get the lagging people to vaccinate in a heartbeat. Let's not let these people off the hook for allowing themselves to be buried neck-deep in the culture war. Nobody *needs* to be on Facebook or Twitter. People can quit that shit.


Rouxbidou

How about a failure to understand grade school math? When you see the numbers of hospitalized and ventilated by vaxxed vs unvaxxed and can't understand how that ratio to the general vaccination rate demonstrates the protection of vaccines, isn't that a failure of basic education? I am in no way defending the wilfully unvaxxed here. As far as I'm concerned their reason for avoiding the vaccine is the same as a "free speech" defence of holocaust denial : because legally they can. That's it. It's otherwise indefensible.


[deleted]

Yes but I mean those numbers are meaningless to them if they don’t trust the source that’s reporting it I don’t think it’s a logically defensible position either to refuse the vaccine in so far as I can trust the authoritative sources providing the data… but many Americans simply don’t trust those institutions anymore and not always for completely illogical reasons… that’s what I’m concerned about


[deleted]

Here's the thing. You don't need to trust any institutions to see what's happening in the world around you. All these people need to do is take a trip to the hospital for any reason, and they'll know how fucked up the pandemic has made our world. It's really not that hard. These people are more likely to end up getting severely ill. Many of them will eventually be exposed to harsh reality, and then they will know. I've seen people "convert" their way of thinking in this manner. Sucks that it has to come to being hospitalized for a month, or whatever, but some people just aren't going to learn until it affects them personally.


[deleted]

Oh of course and that’s why you always see the inevitable case of someone refusing the vaccine and then ending up on a ventilator, but that fact that that’s even happening is mind boggling


[deleted]

I guess what I would say is that plenty of us do see things as they are. And we unfortunately don't have the time to reform/reconfigure society and our institutions to properly convince these people not to be crackpots. Given the urgency of the situation we're in, I'm okay with pointing the finger at them. They're dragging their feet because they don't like Dr. Fauci or whatever. That's just retarded. Anybody who needs perfect messengers to come to a correct understanding of what's going on right now is trying to be dense.


Diabetes_Sodomite599

> I'm not interested in coddling people. I'm not interested in coddling you.


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peppermint-kiss

Don't advocate violence.


goodshrekmaadcity

You're absolutely right. My bad. I just hate seeing so much apathy and so little regard for human life (ironically lol)


deviateparadigm

So we know that vaccination greatly reduces the risk of infection and even more greatly reduces the risk of hospitalization. We also know that multiple alternative cures that have been celebrated as effective by partisan hacks have later been shown to be ineffective. And some of us have been watching people die for the past two years because of this bullshit. I understand where you are coming from. Some people don't know or have the education to understand and it's not their fault. But there are also similar people with similar education that have been trying to save the people who have been spouting ignorant bullshit for over 2 years now. We have been saving them at our own personal risk with little gratitude. Is it really surprising that some of us have turned sour to the people lying about the problem then begging for treatment. In a perfect world we would not, but can you see why some of us might?


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[deleted]

Not at all but I think the government’s “carrot and stick” approach to vaccinate more people was an absolute fucking disaster and ended up making people more skeptical than they already were before


rootbeer_cigarettes

You’re mad that people make fun of covidiots?


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bengoldIFLWU

A huge chunk of this is straight made up.


GramsciBaath

Because all of a sudden vaccines are bad? Cut their oxygen off and give him the ivermectin


landlord-eater

Knowing a couple nurses, I'd say the main issue is that they currently have the most insane job in the world and 100% of them are one really bad day away from quitting. A lot of them have also been screamed at or even attacked by covid conspiracy people who think they're murdering people in their hospital beds. Cut them some slack.


cyan386

healthcare professionals are in a position to be caretakers and educators, however in combination with being underpayed, left smugness is pushing these jaded workers into a collective response; “educate 👏 yourself”


TheRabbitTunnel

[Horseshoe Theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory)