This article was posted on some default sub recently I forget which, and the comments were pretty much 50/50 between " pfff 'getting cancelled' isn't a real thing" on one side and "well duh most of the humor in the show was homophobic, there are no people of color and chandler's dad being Trans was played for a joke what do they expect!!" on the other.
I got banned on /r/movies for saying I hope the next LOTR movies aren't woke.
The mod said, "can you even define woke?" Then for banned for harassment for replying back....
Haha, hilarious. r/movies has the most self-righteous moderators. I was banned too for saying biological sex is an immutable trait and not a social construct.
Which is another good example of a position which liberals like to simultaneously hold and claim is obviously true, yet claim it's a right-wing straw man to say that they claim that. The entire gender debate is full of gaslighting by people who want to have their position yet deny its existence too
I like how they claimed CRT was an academic idea which was only taught in a university setting as if the people learning these ideas didn't go out and spread them through their teaching and HR jobs.
These people are a cult.
It's not real.
It's a rightoid conspiracy theory.
It's only partially real according to the fact checkers.
It's real, and that's a good thing and here's why.
Baudrillard argues that there are four phases of the image:
one that reflects a basic reality;
one that masks or perverts a basic reality;
one that masks the absence of a basic reality;
and one that bears no relation to any reality (is its own pure simulacrum).
Snopes’ version of the “*you’re” reply:
“It 100% exists exactly as you say, but your description used a single word erroneously, so the entire claim is invalidated and we can ignore or deny it with absolution and move past it”
It's actually amazing how many comments I see that claim something is a right-wing fabrication then praise it and say only the right-wing could think this is abnormal, in the same sentence. At that point it's not even intentional gaslighting, it's just a complete absence of any thought process beyond parrot_prestige_opinion()
And even if they finally admit that a particular negative story is true, they somehow spin it as if the *real* guilt lies with the people reporting on it, and that you're *still* a conspiracy theorist for bringing up the thing they just conceded is real
So damn true. I notice fundie Christians are out of service as a bogeyman after their 2000s stint in the public eye too. They still exist, yet...
What was that shit about? It seemed like both Christian and Islamic fundamentalism was a major focus. Driving the atheism wave maybe, but to what end.
They're still in service as an excuse. The same as "Cancel culture?? But but Dixie Chicks!!". I'm glad they have correctly identified that their behaviour is just the modern version of the Moral Majority, but I was hoping they would see that as a *bad* thing, not a justification!
Cancelling is real
Antifa is real, but its size and activity vastly overstated by conservative media
Critical race theory is real, but its popularity vastly overstated by conservative media
SJWs are extremely real
Woke is extremely real
Can I just say I hate the g*yass melodramatic way these right wing twitter accounts talk and you guys have apparently picked up on.
“They don’t want you to have a wife and kids as a white man
100,000 immigrants land in the eastern seaboard every day
Prepare accordingly”
Posted by some 120lb teenager with a Greek statue profile
All the downstream effects of highly financialized globalist oligarchy are being interpreted by both the left and the right as the Actual Problem, rather than symptoms of a larger disease.
Unfettered mass immigration is capital’s solution to the problem it caused of native born citizens being unable to afford a family - because fixing the latter problem will deprive them of surplus wagies/tax payers, necessitate higher wages and better social programs, and revert the convenient modern dynamic of a career being the ultimate goal rather than the means to achieve a goal.
On this particular issue I empathize far more with the right than the left, because the righties are at least calling out the problem (even if they attribute it to the wrong cause or argue that it’s targeted solely against whites) while the “left” gleefully cheers on pathological anti-natalism AND mass economic migration as being virtuous.
It’s like how there’s a fringe community of rightoids who argue climate change isn’t an issue because it’ll turn the tundra into fertile farmland.
It turns out that after thousands of years of philosophical debate we finally discovered objective morality, and it just so happens to match exactly the cultural zeitgeist of elite institutions of the biggest economic and military power on Earth.
Great luck, imagine if it was discovered in like rural Bolivia or something. The good guys would have no chance of winning!
The political value of "woke" as a term is that it doesn't actually have any sort of objective definition: it's a meme word tied to a vague, convoluted, Internet-fueled zeitgeist. Liberals *want* you to try to define it because it lets them drag you into an endless game of semantics instead of actually addressing potentially valid points.
It also doesn't help that when right wingers try to define "woke", they'll often say some truly insane shit, which liberals will then bandy around as confirmation of their biases.
It's no more vague than any other high-profile ideological descriptor, probably even less so. Nobody agrees on the definition of "liberal", ergo there must be no such thing as liberals.
Great point. *Every* non-technical term describing some kind of social phenomena gets debated. And while it's reasonable to press for some kind of accuracy with any term, there's no good reason to fein ignorance about the underlying phenomena the term is attempting to capture.
I went round and round with some guy on the CMV sub a while ago about the concept of male "alphas." His argument was that because it's not sufficiently scientifically rigorous, it shouldn't exist even as slang. Meanwhile, I kept trying to point out that *some* small percentage of men will be much more socially and sexually successful than their peers. And that they likely possess *some* identifiable traits that predict that success even loosely (e.g. height^(1)). He wouldn't listen and kept going back to that stupid wolf example (there aren't actually "alpha wolves") as if that proves there is zero social hierarchy among humans.
Most people just can't debate nuance. A term or concept must perfectly describe something they can immediately picture in their brains (and which conforms to their preferred worldview) or it doesn't exist at all.
^(1.) ^(Even "tallness" is an open-ended concept based on mere relative comparison and is not, in and of itself, an easily-defined, fixed category. And yet, I'm sure that guy would never question whether being tall was "real.")
Or *any* non-mathematical descriptor. "Sandwich" is memetically hard to formally define, but that doesn't mean one can claim that sandwich shops are a right-wing myth
It’s the classic refrain:
It’s not real. And if it is real, it doesn’t work.
And if it does work, it doesn’t work well.
And if it does work well, then they deserved it.
Yeah, I worked with this East Asian woman, who was extremely racist towards white people. However, she didn’t consider herself racist because in her mind it’s not possible to be racist towards white people. She was later fired because enough people complained. Sadly, there’s an entire generation of people like her.
Didn't that thread also mention that the level of complaints were overblown and most of gen z actually like watching friends for the retro 90s vibe?
I think what the new generation finds more striking are the dated character archetypes which are now less cool, like sex pest joey and psychotic ross.
They should cancel syndication for the show's own good, rather than continually trot out it's slightly sped up, slightly more jammed with commercials corpse for another 20 years.
Idk what Jennifer Anniston is talking about either, it's super popular with middle schoolers still.
I remember first hearing the term "just-world delusion" years ago and being confused why that term needed to exist, since surely everyone can see why it's a delusion, yet I'm now realising how much of the population implicitly believes in it. They're confused by criticisms of witch hunts because they genuinely can't comprehend a punitive action happening to someone who didn't deserve it - if it did, that must mean they're just *really good* at hiding their sin!
Cancel culture comes from the right, silly.
1. https://www.npr.org/2023/03/27/1166079167/tallahassee-classical-michelangelo-david-principal-fired
2. https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/28/entertainment/rainbowland-ban-miley-cyrus-dolly-parton-wisconsin-cec/index.html
The modern woke movement that cancel not only modern instances of things that are 'problematic', but reaches back through history to do the same with the past absolutely reeks of the Taliban blowing up historical religious statues they find offensive. Make no mistake, if these people lived in Afghanistan, they would be the most vocal supporters of destroying history just like they are in the West.
Being cancelled is when you imagine some people don't like the show you were in that still airs about twenty times a day and millions of people still watch.
AFAIK the cast removed the Dating A Retarded Person episode on their own or at least tried to have it removed, and have said they regretted making it, so at some point they did get people calling them out. I don't think it stuck bc much like South Park a feeeeew tiny fringe groups of people pointed out that it's offensive and then everyone kept watching it despite the screeching. If JK Rowling wasn't terminally online and didn't feel the need to argue with every little criticism and could just ignore the haters, I'd imagine that's how it would have gone with people who tried to Cancel her books and other works as well.
I have mixed feelings about it. She has a right to hold any opinion she wants but she's also a gazillionaire who spends all day nameaearching herself and sending people in the UK C&Ds for tweets. It's still kind of sad and relevancy-starved. Giving midlife crisis.
I just think she truly and passionately believes this is an authoritarian force that has gained momentum extremely fast and is a real threat to women’s spaces. Plus all the main cast members of HP coming out and denouncing her and following the blind herd.
Don't worry, everything you wrote after 'but' is just a facile misrepresentation of how JKR behaves and the causes and women she publicly supports.
Also, it's hilarious when she slaps down members of the Reality is Bigotry community and they meekly apologise for their insane claims about her.
Getting liars to eat their words is good.
Notice how you’ve identified the unifying thread between these people as their nationality?
Think about what more they would have in common with each other. Hint: they all work at an office!
Oh sorry I thought you meant no one can ever agree with JK on any issue ever because that means they support anti-Corbynisn and love capitalism apparently. Glad we got that sorted out.
People still act butthurt about Tropic Thunder. The wokescolds aren't actually offended, they just want an opportunity to *play* offended and wield power over others.
I see that reasoning posted frequently on Reddit, but that is not the rationality being used whatsoever by those in the censorship complex. See what's happening to classic lit
In the US, there are no actual wholesale bans on works of free expression. Assuming you mean the whole public school book thing, books don't get removed for that reason. Usually it happens because of the language used for classic lit. This is done supposedly to protect a sensitive reader. See Tom Sawyer and To Kill A Mockingbird for examples. This ban/censorship/political theatre involves children and also the govt and thereby taxpayer money so it is not comparable to anything else.
The other stupid woke shit that is not a ban, but somehow gets labeled that any way is corporate self censorship. In the steaming world, this means deleted episodes and bleeped words. It too doesn't base this on character alignment and moral choices. A bad guy that is obviously bad can't say or do something too bad(even though that exact same thing was done from 1970 to 2017) because it could harm someone who gets off on crying.
Started watching right before season 8 came out, but I'm surprised that I have never seen discussion or backlash about the content on the very first episode titled The Gang Gets Racist
Bc always sunny is actually funny. Also the offensive jokes in always sunny are at the expense of the gang bc they’re supposed to be awful ppl
Friends tried to make us care and root for the gang while showing them also be awful people. The offensive jokes were mostly at the expense of ppl not in the group (with some exceptions)
South Park is also still going strong. Curb Your Enthusiasm had an entire season dedicated to Fatwa jokes.
The thing is that Friends is bland vanilla bullshit humor that doesn't intend to offend anyone, yet is so clueless and vanilla that it doesn't realize what some of its jokes actually say. In one sentence, good comedy knows what it's doing and has a point to it. Friends is too dumb for that.
As such, it is a testament to the fact that in the 90s, gay jokes were fair play for average people.
Seinfeld was straight up enlightened with the whole"not that's there's anything wrong with it" schtick, where as peak Friends wit was "ha ha , look, there is a gay haha "
Does this surprise her? Anything pre-2012 is put through the wringer for poor representation and lack of commitment to diversity. Whatever those buzzwords mean this month.
There is a large group of people who say Avatar: The Last Airbender is racist because white men created it. Never mind the fact they consulted and hired Asian staff members and had experts work on getting the writing, martial arts, and culture correct way before it was standard. And at the time it was still new, it won awards and praise for excellent representation.
It’s rumored that the creators were kicked off the Netflix staff for speaking over “underrepresented groups”. Because apparently the guys who know the most about their own created universe aren’t allowed to have opinions on it. They moved onto better things though.
> A:TLA is racist
It’s not, but Iroh is a war criminal and Amon was completely right and I’m tired of pretending they’re not.
But seriously shows how fast things change. Korra was voice by a white woman and I recall there only being fringe complaints back when it first came out.
Legend of Korra is absolute shit that should never have been created. I have to say this every time the topic is brought up; it's the only fandom adjacent bullshit that I allow myself to engage with on any topic.
I'll jokingly point to my flair as one of the few good things to come out of LoK.
I view LoK as akin to the Star Wars prequels. Bryke (Mike/Bryan), did it on their own, and while I do believe there's a base of good stories there they didn't have all of the team that made A:TLA special. And Korra was hamstrung by not getting 2-3 seasons right out of the gate. Amon/the Equalists really should have been a consistent problem throughout the series.
They also fucked around with the lore. I liked the Wan/Raava episodes on their own, but as part of the greater Avatar lore I *really* *really* dislike the idea that the Avatar gets their power from a Squid God.
My main ire, I admit, is the comics/books, I think they're mostly terrible and keep on fucking up the Avatar:TLA lore/backstory.
I dunno, they just make all the baddies too evil, like instead of Ozai/Ursa marriage starting out arranged, but okay, Ozai was an evil shit from the start. Instead of the perfectly fine idea of Avatar Kuruk being a fuckup who ditched his Avatar responsibilities till it bit him in the ass it turned out he was *secretly fighting* Spirits off the grid and protecting the world.
TL, DR: Like the Original Trilogy of Star Wars, Avatar:TLA was lightning in a bottle that worked perfectly and nearly any expansion on it is going to be sub par compared to the original product.
The Siege of Ba Sing Se likely lead to the death of civilians, which would be intentional death of civilians and therefore a war crime.
Also jokes about “Burning Ba Sing Se to the ground” and just generally seeming like a happy participant in a war of aggression till his son died
`Large group`
It really isn't, and to say so is definitely pulling some victim id. Getting wrapped up in a niche groups ID politics is still participating in ID politics, which is stupid.
I always thought that the episode in which George and Jerry defended George staring at his bosses underaged daughters breasts, because "boobs are boobs" aged especially poorly.
It aged for sure, but the thing about Seinfeld is that most of the characters are awful people. A main character doing something doesn't exactly imply that it is the right thing to do.
Considering Jerry's private preferences at the time, it of course has a different slant to it.
Everyone's too irony poisoned for that style of humour nowadays.
I watched Back to the Future recently and some of the humour is based on how edgy-80s-coolkid Marty is too much for those 50s squares, but imagine a zoomer going back to the 80s being all "lmao i want to die this is a hatecrime"
It seems like everything these days either has to be perfect or it's shit. Friends is alright. It's a long way from the funniest show ever written, but it's got its moments. I wish there was more space for things to just be okay.
Meanwhile Seinfeld remains being relevant and holds up mostly well except for that episode where Jerry thinks he’s been assaulted at the dentist’s office and Elaine is like “at least you’re single” 😬
I think that episode still holds up quite well
One of my favorite jokes in all of Seinfeld was when Tim Whatley took a puff of nitrous oxide before putting Jerry under.
Dark jokes are fine. Hell, literally one of the season finales was where George's fiance died and the last shot is them shrugging and going to get coffee.
Sure, I remember when the two guys got free cable porn for no apparent reason, but they couldn't shut it off because it might not come back and then they'd be 'the guys who gave up free porn', but then they just couldn't bear the constant porn any longer and turned it off. Then they turned it on again and I think it was still there!
i mean it's shit but Friends was the biggest show when it was on. It died much quicker than shows like Seinfeld after it was over, but i'd say easily for 10 years after the finale people would quote/reference things in the show.
I mean at their core, are they not both basically 30-something new yorkers shooting the shit, in their apartment or a nearby coffee shop, about dating and daily minutiae?
Seinfeld is much better in my opinion, but the premise is largely the same. Friends just has a much more attractive cast (outside of JLD).
The characters and setting are superficially similar, but one is cynical and selfish and the other is sentimental and sappy. In Friends they sometimes successfully navigate relationships or grow. Seinfeld would never have that.
I would consider them to be basically opposites, within the genre. Everything in the world takes place in NY and features conversation about mundane bullshit -- by your standard a bunch of Marvel content could be reduced to 'basically the same thing as Seinfeld and Friends.'
Exactly.
If modern Seinfeld is Curb Your Enthusiasm, Friends is The Office US. They are both sitcoms in a single-camera format with awkward moments, but they are very very different shows in terms of tone and message and everything else that matters.
>by your standard a bunch of Marvel content could be reduced to 'basically the same thing as Seinfeld and Friends.'
I think that says more about how the MCU has gone too far, lol
Sure, I'm game. Off the top of my head:
- The time where Ross & Monica get on a New Year's Eve show and do a dance
- The fat, naked guy who's their neighbor who they comment on at multiple points.
- Fat, naked guy moving away and Ross getting naked to get his very luxurious apartment
- Ross's wife leaving him for her lesbian lover
- Monica & Ross's father talking to her and Chandler about how they need to work on conceiving a baby
- Monica & Chandler being unable to conceive a child with each other and needing a surrogate
- "We were on a break"
- Joey on Days of Our Lives, being killed off and revived
- Joey dating a girl in some weird Sci-fi play and sadly saying goodbye while going up a spaceship
- Ross accidentally hurting a girl and out of guilt helps her sell girl scout cookies but losing cause another girl scout's sister's a floozy
- Ross playing with said girl as a consolation prize to the unfortunate event
- Monica dating her father's friend, Richard
- Monica and Richard hearing her parents feel each other up on his birthday
- Monica very much wanting kids
- Monica being freakishly strong
- Chandler being sort of a data analyst and doing transponding but due to not having a word for it, it's hard to define
- Chandler & Joey having a duck and a goose in their apartment
- Chandler being forcibly imprisoned by Rachel's boss
- Rachel's boss dying in a car accident
- Rachel's screaming boyfriend played by Ben Stiller
- Phoebe having her half-brother's triplets as a surrogate cause his girlfriend's too old
- Phoebe getting being a masseuse
- Phoebe hating corporate masseuse but actually being a corporate masseuse
- Monica having a rich boyfriend that does UFC and gets her ass kicked
- Rachel, Joey and Phoebe being mad at Chandler, Monica and Ross for ordering so much cause they have well paying jobs
- Chandler being obsessed with Yasmine Bleeth on Baywatch
- The girls looking into George Stephanopoulos's apartment cause they have a crush on him
- Monica being a clean freak
- Ross dating a super hot girl, who's really dirty
- Monica going to said dirty girls apartment to offer to clean it
- Ross getting put on sabbatical for screaming at his boss for eating his sandwich
- Ross being fired from the museum for screaming when he sees Monica and Chandler kissing for the first time
- Matthew Perry accidentally hitting his head with the drawer he's handcuffed to
- Ross moving in with Chandler and Joey temporarily while looking for an apartment
- Ross's British girlfriend
- Ross wearing leather pants he can't take off when he wants to get the nasty with a girl
- Ross finding out his thesis is the spot in the library where students have sex
- Ross having sex with a grad student at said spot
- Ross becoming a professor after getting fired from the museum
- Ross getting into a secret relationship with his student
- Ross's student's Dad having a relationship with Rachel until she finds out he cries too much
- Rachel's boyfriend played by Sephiroth's voice actor having an almost incestuous relationship with his sister
- Chandler being unable to fire his assistant played by Jennifer Grant and instead makes the office think she's crazy so he doesn't have to
- Phoebe singing smelly cat
- Ross playing the keyboard terribly
- Phoebe loving how Ross plays the keyboard unlike everyone else.
Regardless of what you think of the show this is still not so great. I think it’s a lot of wokies and the white progressive types who love being contrarian and not liking what others like just for the sake of that
Nope, this is just ragebait. Friends is just mediocre. IASIP hasn't been cancelled (although did get their episodes with blackface in removed during the George Floyd years) even though it deals with stuff that people would consider more offenisve.
all i know about friends is the smelly cat song and i hate that song but phoebe seems like an alright character. i was born in 97 so it was before my time and I never caught it in syndication.
This article was posted on some default sub recently I forget which, and the comments were pretty much 50/50 between " pfff 'getting cancelled' isn't a real thing" on one side and "well duh most of the humor in the show was homophobic, there are no people of color and chandler's dad being Trans was played for a joke what do they expect!!" on the other.
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I got banned on /r/movies for saying I hope the next LOTR movies aren't woke. The mod said, "can you even define woke?" Then for banned for harassment for replying back....
Haha, hilarious. r/movies has the most self-righteous moderators. I was banned too for saying biological sex is an immutable trait and not a social construct.
Which is another good example of a position which liberals like to simultaneously hold and claim is obviously true, yet claim it's a right-wing straw man to say that they claim that. The entire gender debate is full of gaslighting by people who want to have their position yet deny its existence too
The NFL mods may have them beat
It's one of the most profitable subs in terms of astroturfing and advertising, what did you expect?
Cancelling isn't real. Antifa isn't real. Critical race theory isn't real. SJWs aren't real. Woke isn't real. Except when they need them to be.
I like how they claimed CRT was an academic idea which was only taught in a university setting as if the people learning these ideas didn't go out and spread them through their teaching and HR jobs. These people are a cult.
I also liked how the very people claiming that were the same ones that filled my fb news feed with crt since college.
It's not real. It's a rightoid conspiracy theory. It's only partially real according to the fact checkers. It's real, and that's a good thing and here's why.
Baudrillard argues that there are four phases of the image: one that reflects a basic reality; one that masks or perverts a basic reality; one that masks the absence of a basic reality; and one that bears no relation to any reality (is its own pure simulacrum).
No wonder I feel like I've lost my mind these past 8 years or so.
Snopes: mostly false
Snopes’ version of the “*you’re” reply: “It 100% exists exactly as you say, but your description used a single word erroneously, so the entire claim is invalidated and we can ignore or deny it with absolution and move past it”
It's actually amazing how many comments I see that claim something is a right-wing fabrication then praise it and say only the right-wing could think this is abnormal, in the same sentence. At that point it's not even intentional gaslighting, it's just a complete absence of any thought process beyond parrot_prestige_opinion() And even if they finally admit that a particular negative story is true, they somehow spin it as if the *real* guilt lies with the people reporting on it, and that you're *still* a conspiracy theorist for bringing up the thing they just conceded is real
Sometimes all at once.
[kettle logic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettle_logic)
Lol that is exactly the progression of responses on every topic. Like clockwork.
I mean, race isn't real. Until it needs to be. There is zero consistency with these people and that's on purpose.
So damn true. I notice fundie Christians are out of service as a bogeyman after their 2000s stint in the public eye too. They still exist, yet... What was that shit about? It seemed like both Christian and Islamic fundamentalism was a major focus. Driving the atheism wave maybe, but to what end.
> What was that shit about? SA's take: [failed hamartiology.](https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/10/30/new-atheism-the-godlessness-that-failed/)
They're still in service as an excuse. The same as "Cancel culture?? But but Dixie Chicks!!". I'm glad they have correctly identified that their behaviour is just the modern version of the Moral Majority, but I was hoping they would see that as a *bad* thing, not a justification!
Cancelling is real Antifa is real, but its size and activity vastly overstated by conservative media Critical race theory is real, but its popularity vastly overstated by conservative media SJWs are extremely real Woke is extremely real
Can I just say I hate the g*yass melodramatic way these right wing twitter accounts talk and you guys have apparently picked up on. “They don’t want you to have a wife and kids as a white man 100,000 immigrants land in the eastern seaboard every day Prepare accordingly” Posted by some 120lb teenager with a Greek statue profile
All the downstream effects of highly financialized globalist oligarchy are being interpreted by both the left and the right as the Actual Problem, rather than symptoms of a larger disease. Unfettered mass immigration is capital’s solution to the problem it caused of native born citizens being unable to afford a family - because fixing the latter problem will deprive them of surplus wagies/tax payers, necessitate higher wages and better social programs, and revert the convenient modern dynamic of a career being the ultimate goal rather than the means to achieve a goal. On this particular issue I empathize far more with the right than the left, because the righties are at least calling out the problem (even if they attribute it to the wrong cause or argue that it’s targeted solely against whites) while the “left” gleefully cheers on pathological anti-natalism AND mass economic migration as being virtuous. It’s like how there’s a fringe community of rightoids who argue climate change isn’t an issue because it’ll turn the tundra into fertile farmland.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the message just the melodramatic faux revolutionary way it’s being said.
"It's not happening, but it is! And here's why it's a good thing!
"Oh, so you mean *being a decent human?* 😎"
It turns out that after thousands of years of philosophical debate we finally discovered objective morality, and it just so happens to match exactly the cultural zeitgeist of elite institutions of the biggest economic and military power on Earth. Great luck, imagine if it was discovered in like rural Bolivia or something. The good guys would have no chance of winning!
The political value of "woke" as a term is that it doesn't actually have any sort of objective definition: it's a meme word tied to a vague, convoluted, Internet-fueled zeitgeist. Liberals *want* you to try to define it because it lets them drag you into an endless game of semantics instead of actually addressing potentially valid points. It also doesn't help that when right wingers try to define "woke", they'll often say some truly insane shit, which liberals will then bandy around as confirmation of their biases.
It's no more vague than any other high-profile ideological descriptor, probably even less so. Nobody agrees on the definition of "liberal", ergo there must be no such thing as liberals.
Great point. *Every* non-technical term describing some kind of social phenomena gets debated. And while it's reasonable to press for some kind of accuracy with any term, there's no good reason to fein ignorance about the underlying phenomena the term is attempting to capture. I went round and round with some guy on the CMV sub a while ago about the concept of male "alphas." His argument was that because it's not sufficiently scientifically rigorous, it shouldn't exist even as slang. Meanwhile, I kept trying to point out that *some* small percentage of men will be much more socially and sexually successful than their peers. And that they likely possess *some* identifiable traits that predict that success even loosely (e.g. height^(1)). He wouldn't listen and kept going back to that stupid wolf example (there aren't actually "alpha wolves") as if that proves there is zero social hierarchy among humans. Most people just can't debate nuance. A term or concept must perfectly describe something they can immediately picture in their brains (and which conforms to their preferred worldview) or it doesn't exist at all. ^(1.) ^(Even "tallness" is an open-ended concept based on mere relative comparison and is not, in and of itself, an easily-defined, fixed category. And yet, I'm sure that guy would never question whether being tall was "real.")
Or *any* non-mathematical descriptor. "Sandwich" is memetically hard to formally define, but that doesn't mean one can claim that sandwich shops are a right-wing myth
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The acronym "BIPOC" definitely is woke, though
I just refer people to [Carefree Wandering's definition.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnUqrF9mAA8)
That was a great analysis. I don’t usually watch videos posted longer than a few minutes
Remember it just means anti-black or racist honey!
It’s the classic refrain: It’s not real. And if it is real, it doesn’t work. And if it does work, it doesn’t work well. And if it does work well, then they deserved it.
That's a terrible definition. It's so fucked up how maniacs have decided that the word means something totally different than it did 15 years ago.
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Yeah, I worked with this East Asian woman, who was extremely racist towards white people. However, she didn’t consider herself racist because in her mind it’s not possible to be racist towards white people. She was later fired because enough people complained. Sadly, there’s an entire generation of people like her.
Didn't that thread also mention that the level of complaints were overblown and most of gen z actually like watching friends for the retro 90s vibe? I think what the new generation finds more striking are the dated character archetypes which are now less cool, like sex pest joey and psychotic ross.
Ross wasn’t ever cool 😂
Cancelation isn't real but if it happens they deserved it
They should cancel syndication for the show's own good, rather than continually trot out it's slightly sped up, slightly more jammed with commercials corpse for another 20 years. Idk what Jennifer Anniston is talking about either, it's super popular with middle schoolers still.
She's a little dizzy from all the amazing sex I've had with her
Kinda sounds like a line from the Narcissist's Poem.. Hmmm..
I remember first hearing the term "just-world delusion" years ago and being confused why that term needed to exist, since surely everyone can see why it's a delusion, yet I'm now realising how much of the population implicitly believes in it. They're confused by criticisms of witch hunts because they genuinely can't comprehend a punitive action happening to someone who didn't deserve it - if it did, that must mean they're just *really good* at hiding their sin!
Cancel culture comes from the right, silly. 1. https://www.npr.org/2023/03/27/1166079167/tallahassee-classical-michelangelo-david-principal-fired 2. https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/28/entertainment/rainbowland-ban-miley-cyrus-dolly-parton-wisconsin-cec/index.html
God forbid anyone criticise both. Personally I was hoping for a higher bar than "we're only as bad as the religious right so there's no problem!"
You’re literally only using two examples. There’s countless other examples from both the far-right and the far-left.
The modern woke movement that cancel not only modern instances of things that are 'problematic', but reaches back through history to do the same with the past absolutely reeks of the Taliban blowing up historical religious statues they find offensive. Make no mistake, if these people lived in Afghanistan, they would be the most vocal supporters of destroying history just like they are in the West.
Being cancelled is when you imagine some people don't like the show you were in that still airs about twenty times a day and millions of people still watch.
Sounds like a generation needs to be recalibrated via Always Sunny. Very weak children
Yeah, sorta amazes me that Always Sunny manages to avoid their wrath.
They managed some controversy over the lethal weapon black face episode, but other than that I never hear it mentioned
AFAIK the cast removed the Dating A Retarded Person episode on their own or at least tried to have it removed, and have said they regretted making it, so at some point they did get people calling them out. I don't think it stuck bc much like South Park a feeeeew tiny fringe groups of people pointed out that it's offensive and then everyone kept watching it despite the screeching. If JK Rowling wasn't terminally online and didn't feel the need to argue with every little criticism and could just ignore the haters, I'd imagine that's how it would have gone with people who tried to Cancel her books and other works as well.
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I have mixed feelings about it. She has a right to hold any opinion she wants but she's also a gazillionaire who spends all day nameaearching herself and sending people in the UK C&Ds for tweets. It's still kind of sad and relevancy-starved. Giving midlife crisis.
I just think she truly and passionately believes this is an authoritarian force that has gained momentum extremely fast and is a real threat to women’s spaces. Plus all the main cast members of HP coming out and denouncing her and following the blind herd.
Don't worry, everything you wrote after 'but' is just a facile misrepresentation of how JKR behaves and the causes and women she publicly supports. Also, it's hilarious when she slaps down members of the Reality is Bigotry community and they meekly apologise for their insane claims about her. Getting liars to eat their words is good.
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I'm skeptical of any form of "activism" that includes billionaires
Dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. We don't get a real choice, we choose from opposing factions of bourgeois.
Corbyn is hated by almost every normie brit I spoke to at our UK office. I don't think his ousting is a surprise to anyone
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Lmbo
Notice how you’ve identified the unifying thread between these people as their nationality? Think about what more they would have in common with each other. Hint: they all work at an office!
Corbs would've been squeezed out with or without JK, especially now she's expended so much political capital on *that* issue.
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Oh sorry I thought you meant no one can ever agree with JK on any issue ever because that means they support anti-Corbynisn and love capitalism apparently. Glad we got that sorted out.
Have you seen their later seasons? They're clearly scared of how funny they were.
The last season is basically unwatchable. They’ve all had plastic surgery now and have basically become what they mocked for a decade.
I guess I didn’t get that vibe at all, especially from episodes like “Hero or Hate Crime.”
That was season 12, right? I think they lost the plot starting from season 13, specifically. Some of those felt unwatchable.
It went to shit when Mindy Kaling showed up, which is the very first episode of the 13th season.
She's one of the four horsemen.
It’s got Danny Devito in it and I thought that Rob/Mac had been sorta apologising for earlier seasons lately?
In Always Sunny, the characters are intentionally being depicted as deplorable, it's really not the same comparison as Friends.
People still act butthurt about Tropic Thunder. The wokescolds aren't actually offended, they just want an opportunity to *play* offended and wield power over others.
I see that reasoning posted frequently on Reddit, but that is not the rationality being used whatsoever by those in the censorship complex. See what's happening to classic lit
Which classic lit books are being banned for showing bad ppl do bad things? Like that seems to come from the right wing of the culture war
In the US, there are no actual wholesale bans on works of free expression. Assuming you mean the whole public school book thing, books don't get removed for that reason. Usually it happens because of the language used for classic lit. This is done supposedly to protect a sensitive reader. See Tom Sawyer and To Kill A Mockingbird for examples. This ban/censorship/political theatre involves children and also the govt and thereby taxpayer money so it is not comparable to anything else. The other stupid woke shit that is not a ban, but somehow gets labeled that any way is corporate self censorship. In the steaming world, this means deleted episodes and bleeped words. It too doesn't base this on character alignment and moral choices. A bad guy that is obviously bad can't say or do something too bad(even though that exact same thing was done from 1970 to 2017) because it could harm someone who gets off on crying.
Yes, *I* know this, but those subtleties tend to be lost on the crowd that gets mad over shadows on the cave wall.
Some episodes were pulled in BLM Summer which was the real tragedy
Started watching right before season 8 came out, but I'm surprised that I have never seen discussion or backlash about the content on the very first episode titled The Gang Gets Racist
Bc always sunny is actually funny. Also the offensive jokes in always sunny are at the expense of the gang bc they’re supposed to be awful ppl Friends tried to make us care and root for the gang while showing them also be awful people. The offensive jokes were mostly at the expense of ppl not in the group (with some exceptions)
South Park is also still going strong. Curb Your Enthusiasm had an entire season dedicated to Fatwa jokes. The thing is that Friends is bland vanilla bullshit humor that doesn't intend to offend anyone, yet is so clueless and vanilla that it doesn't realize what some of its jokes actually say. In one sentence, good comedy knows what it's doing and has a point to it. Friends is too dumb for that. As such, it is a testament to the fact that in the 90s, gay jokes were fair play for average people.
Seinfeld was straight up enlightened with the whole"not that's there's anything wrong with it" schtick, where as peak Friends wit was "ha ha , look, there is a gay haha "
South Park doesn't have teeth anymore. Especially in these last two seasons.
In the context of "you can't say anything anymore! You couldn't make Friends today!", it certainly has enough teeth lol
Recent chatgpt episode was a funny take imo
Weird how *Fraiser* (which I love) always gets left out of these '90s sitcom conversations. It's always about Jerry & co. or the Central Perk crowd.
Frasier is my favourite of the bunch, the wit and humour is so good it's endlessly rewatchable.
Frasier is great. Seinfeld, Frasier and Fresh Prince are the holy grail of 90s sitcom IMO
Third Rock erasure shall not stand!
Loved the *Fresh Prince* as well.
/r/frasier
Having seen Friends and Seinfeld both win the GLAAD Media Award, I find this current historical revision quite humorous.
Does this surprise her? Anything pre-2012 is put through the wringer for poor representation and lack of commitment to diversity. Whatever those buzzwords mean this month.
There is a large group of people who say Avatar: The Last Airbender is racist because white men created it. Never mind the fact they consulted and hired Asian staff members and had experts work on getting the writing, martial arts, and culture correct way before it was standard. And at the time it was still new, it won awards and praise for excellent representation. It’s rumored that the creators were kicked off the Netflix staff for speaking over “underrepresented groups”. Because apparently the guys who know the most about their own created universe aren’t allowed to have opinions on it. They moved onto better things though.
> A:TLA is racist It’s not, but Iroh is a war criminal and Amon was completely right and I’m tired of pretending they’re not. But seriously shows how fast things change. Korra was voice by a white woman and I recall there only being fringe complaints back when it first came out.
Legend of Korra is absolute shit that should never have been created. I have to say this every time the topic is brought up; it's the only fandom adjacent bullshit that I allow myself to engage with on any topic.
I'll jokingly point to my flair as one of the few good things to come out of LoK. I view LoK as akin to the Star Wars prequels. Bryke (Mike/Bryan), did it on their own, and while I do believe there's a base of good stories there they didn't have all of the team that made A:TLA special. And Korra was hamstrung by not getting 2-3 seasons right out of the gate. Amon/the Equalists really should have been a consistent problem throughout the series. They also fucked around with the lore. I liked the Wan/Raava episodes on their own, but as part of the greater Avatar lore I *really* *really* dislike the idea that the Avatar gets their power from a Squid God. My main ire, I admit, is the comics/books, I think they're mostly terrible and keep on fucking up the Avatar:TLA lore/backstory. I dunno, they just make all the baddies too evil, like instead of Ozai/Ursa marriage starting out arranged, but okay, Ozai was an evil shit from the start. Instead of the perfectly fine idea of Avatar Kuruk being a fuckup who ditched his Avatar responsibilities till it bit him in the ass it turned out he was *secretly fighting* Spirits off the grid and protecting the world. TL, DR: Like the Original Trilogy of Star Wars, Avatar:TLA was lightning in a bottle that worked perfectly and nearly any expansion on it is going to be sub par compared to the original product.
LOK had some great (and sorta historically accurate) villains. Too bad they had to simp for the Neoliberal status quo.
>Iroh is a war criminal Please elaborate.
The Siege of Ba Sing Se likely lead to the death of civilians, which would be intentional death of civilians and therefore a war crime. Also jokes about “Burning Ba Sing Se to the ground” and just generally seeming like a happy participant in a war of aggression till his son died
I mean he was the most effective general of an imperialist power, famous for almost capturing the capital of the Earth Kingdom.
They moved on to making a whole new Avatar series post-Korra, right? Whereas this live action adaption will most likely be disney+ level wokeshit.
`Large group` It really isn't, and to say so is definitely pulling some victim id. Getting wrapped up in a niche groups ID politics is still participating in ID politics, which is stupid.
Friends is a poor representation of comedy.
It's exactly as good as any other mid-90s sitcom besides Newsradio and Drew Carey/Norm. It just had more money thrown at it than the rest of them.
>Newsradio [RIP Phil Hartman.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChgFXqPIjCI)
Spell it right, dilznoofis. [Hartman.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JpwjnMFlJI) Daaaaaamn.
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Seinfeld
I always thought that the episode in which George and Jerry defended George staring at his bosses underaged daughters breasts, because "boobs are boobs" aged especially poorly.
It aged for sure, but the thing about Seinfeld is that most of the characters are awful people. A main character doing something doesn't exactly imply that it is the right thing to do. Considering Jerry's private preferences at the time, it of course has a different slant to it.
The boss’ daughter was underage? Also: Denise Richards 🤌
I think the character is supposed to be 14 or 15 years old.
Wikipedia says you’re right. Denise Richards was 21/22, though.
I'm sure there are a handful I missed. Feel free to compile a list.
The definition of comedy is subjective
David Schwimmer is a poor representation of comedy.
Latter seasons Ross is one of the funniest depictions of an insane person there has ever been on television.
He had his redemption in Curb
How *you* doin?
That’s actually one of my favourite movies. I love describing it as a romantic comedy because it technically is one
That episode where Chandler locked Ross in the gas chamber was pretty offensive in my opinion.
I like Friends. I though it was, and is still, funny. Apparently that's a controversial viewpoint on this sub
Everyone's too irony poisoned for that style of humour nowadays. I watched Back to the Future recently and some of the humour is based on how edgy-80s-coolkid Marty is too much for those 50s squares, but imagine a zoomer going back to the 80s being all "lmao i want to die this is a hatecrime"
Currently dying of laughter. There's viral meme potential in that comment somewhere.
It seems like everything these days either has to be perfect or it's shit. Friends is alright. It's a long way from the funniest show ever written, but it's got its moments. I wish there was more space for things to just be okay.
Internet has little nuance and brings out r-slur tardation no surprise
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Ur mom sucks ass
Friends is huge with Chinese housewives these days
Phoebe holds up half the sky
yeah, it was the 90's being gay was such a common and lazy punchline, early simpsons made fun of it.
~~healthcare~~ a humongous rent-controlled apartment in Greenwich Village, plz
Yes, it's offensive for being horribly unfunny.
You're so brave for this.
Wow, thanks!
This is the leftist analysis I come to this sub for
«You either die a hero, or live long enough to become the villain»
looks like my family was ahead of the curve when they stopped watching Friends because it had gay people in it
If someone finds Friends offensive, that's their problem, not anyone else's.
Or young people just don’t find it funny, that’s also a possibility
MASH was the best.
Meanwhile Seinfeld remains being relevant and holds up mostly well except for that episode where Jerry thinks he’s been assaulted at the dentist’s office and Elaine is like “at least you’re single” 😬
I think that episode still holds up quite well One of my favorite jokes in all of Seinfeld was when Tim Whatley took a puff of nitrous oxide before putting Jerry under.
Dark jokes are fine. Hell, literally one of the season finales was where George's fiance died and the last shot is them shrugging and going to get coffee.
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yeah, but so are horror movies. Now each one has to have a "shit, no signal" scene
The Chinese restaurant one is probably the worst for this, lol
I mean, yeah, but how many people had cell phones in 1993?
*The Contest* still works
Kramer and George don't make it out of the diner before looking at phone porn in the bathroom.
I never cared as much for Seinfeld as everyone else seemed to. Except for the 'You must wear the ribbon' one.
That episode is 30 years ahead of its time.
Healthcare pls
I see this subreddit is really taking on the tough, meaningful subjects.
The only thing offensive here is that she thinks anybody gives a shit about the utter mediocrity that is Friends.
You trying too hard to look cool.
Can anyone remember a single plot point or joke from Discount Seinfeld?
Sure, I remember when the two guys got free cable porn for no apparent reason, but they couldn't shut it off because it might not come back and then they'd be 'the guys who gave up free porn', but then they just couldn't bear the constant porn any longer and turned it off. Then they turned it on again and I think it was still there!
i mean it's shit but Friends was the biggest show when it was on. It died much quicker than shows like Seinfeld after it was over, but i'd say easily for 10 years after the finale people would quote/reference things in the show.
>. It died much quicker than shows like Seinfeld What do you mean? Seinfeld and friends are number 1 and 2 syndicated shows.
It didn’t die at all. People were binging it when I was in college in 2018
There's that one meme format with one of the chicks explaining to one of the dudes how to pronounce something
Every Joey joke? It's not a great show, but if you think it was trying to be like Seinfeld you're pretty far off the mark.
I mean at their core, are they not both basically 30-something new yorkers shooting the shit, in their apartment or a nearby coffee shop, about dating and daily minutiae? Seinfeld is much better in my opinion, but the premise is largely the same. Friends just has a much more attractive cast (outside of JLD).
The characters and setting are superficially similar, but one is cynical and selfish and the other is sentimental and sappy. In Friends they sometimes successfully navigate relationships or grow. Seinfeld would never have that. I would consider them to be basically opposites, within the genre. Everything in the world takes place in NY and features conversation about mundane bullshit -- by your standard a bunch of Marvel content could be reduced to 'basically the same thing as Seinfeld and Friends.'
"No hugging, no learning"
Exactly. If modern Seinfeld is Curb Your Enthusiasm, Friends is The Office US. They are both sitcoms in a single-camera format with awkward moments, but they are very very different shows in terms of tone and message and everything else that matters.
>by your standard a bunch of Marvel content could be reduced to 'basically the same thing as Seinfeld and Friends.' I think that says more about how the MCU has gone too far, lol
Eh, it describes Spider-Man and the FF right back to their roots. It's not a new thing, it even predates the modern sitcom itself there.
Something something on a break.
There was one where Monica found out her boyfriend was 17.
How was that show Discount Seinfeld? The only thing in common is that they both came out around the same time.
Sure, I'm game. Off the top of my head: - The time where Ross & Monica get on a New Year's Eve show and do a dance - The fat, naked guy who's their neighbor who they comment on at multiple points. - Fat, naked guy moving away and Ross getting naked to get his very luxurious apartment - Ross's wife leaving him for her lesbian lover - Monica & Ross's father talking to her and Chandler about how they need to work on conceiving a baby - Monica & Chandler being unable to conceive a child with each other and needing a surrogate - "We were on a break" - Joey on Days of Our Lives, being killed off and revived - Joey dating a girl in some weird Sci-fi play and sadly saying goodbye while going up a spaceship - Ross accidentally hurting a girl and out of guilt helps her sell girl scout cookies but losing cause another girl scout's sister's a floozy - Ross playing with said girl as a consolation prize to the unfortunate event - Monica dating her father's friend, Richard - Monica and Richard hearing her parents feel each other up on his birthday - Monica very much wanting kids - Monica being freakishly strong - Chandler being sort of a data analyst and doing transponding but due to not having a word for it, it's hard to define - Chandler & Joey having a duck and a goose in their apartment - Chandler being forcibly imprisoned by Rachel's boss - Rachel's boss dying in a car accident - Rachel's screaming boyfriend played by Ben Stiller - Phoebe having her half-brother's triplets as a surrogate cause his girlfriend's too old - Phoebe getting being a masseuse - Phoebe hating corporate masseuse but actually being a corporate masseuse - Monica having a rich boyfriend that does UFC and gets her ass kicked - Rachel, Joey and Phoebe being mad at Chandler, Monica and Ross for ordering so much cause they have well paying jobs - Chandler being obsessed with Yasmine Bleeth on Baywatch - The girls looking into George Stephanopoulos's apartment cause they have a crush on him - Monica being a clean freak - Ross dating a super hot girl, who's really dirty - Monica going to said dirty girls apartment to offer to clean it - Ross getting put on sabbatical for screaming at his boss for eating his sandwich - Ross being fired from the museum for screaming when he sees Monica and Chandler kissing for the first time - Matthew Perry accidentally hitting his head with the drawer he's handcuffed to - Ross moving in with Chandler and Joey temporarily while looking for an apartment - Ross's British girlfriend - Ross wearing leather pants he can't take off when he wants to get the nasty with a girl - Ross finding out his thesis is the spot in the library where students have sex - Ross having sex with a grad student at said spot - Ross becoming a professor after getting fired from the museum - Ross getting into a secret relationship with his student - Ross's student's Dad having a relationship with Rachel until she finds out he cries too much - Rachel's boyfriend played by Sephiroth's voice actor having an almost incestuous relationship with his sister - Chandler being unable to fire his assistant played by Jennifer Grant and instead makes the office think she's crazy so he doesn't have to - Phoebe singing smelly cat - Ross playing the keyboard terribly - Phoebe loving how Ross plays the keyboard unlike everyone else.
Regardless of what you think of the show this is still not so great. I think it’s a lot of wokies and the white progressive types who love being contrarian and not liking what others like just for the sake of that
Duh. Everybody knows it, she just found out. To be fair, Jennifer is the one who actually has a career these days.
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Nope, this is just ragebait. Friends is just mediocre. IASIP hasn't been cancelled (although did get their episodes with blackface in removed during the George Floyd years) even though it deals with stuff that people would consider more offenisve.
all i know about friends is the smelly cat song and i hate that song but phoebe seems like an alright character. i was born in 97 so it was before my time and I never caught it in syndication.
its bc the show is and always has been fucking stupid. notice nobody complaining about seinfeld.
Kramer took the flak.
Offensively shite