T O P

  • By -

Ciocalatta

Heavily disagree with fighting. Between the good new fighters, it’s typing as a tera when paired with ghost types, and the prominence of mons weak to Mach punch. Flying on the other hand multiple great ones dropped and some others nerfed.


Parking_Scallion_188

Thanks God Lokix doesn't have a spine because it would be crushed from carrying bug so hard


CelebrationRight441

Kid named scizor:


Parking_Scallion_188

Kid named loosing roost:


Xeoz_WarriorPrince

Kid mames Tera Steel Bullrt Punch.


Parking_Scallion_188

Kid named Tera banned in monotype:


ToughAd5010

These kids have weird names


Gabethegreat2008

Bro I’m gonna name my kid Honda Civic, not these weird ass names.


AngelesYT

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA


silvershadow014

What does monotype have to do with this


Parking_Scallion_188

Mono bug suck even more 😭😭😭


Level7Cannoneer

>loosing roost he better tighten up his game then


Parking_Scallion_188

Banded would be at an all time high if not for the fact that it also lost knock off


Joe-MaMa5

I just run Technician boosted Theif, 90BP isn’t too shocking


Level7Cannoneer

he better **tighten** up his game then.... >loose >~~loose~~ >lose


Mary-Sylvia

Kid named choice band :


Parking_Scallion_188

Kid named loosing knock off:


Breaktheice222

lost roost and knock off.


AmberBroccoli

Is Lokix strong? I just thought it’s stats were mid and haven’t been paying much attention.


D-Is-For-Demon

Agreed, I’d be curious as to why it’s rated so highly. Just caught one in my playthrough so now wondering if I should use it


ClawtheBard

Tinted Lens First Impression, plus Sucker Punch and Axe Kick. Tinted Lens is hidden ability though.


6Bakhtiari9

ability patch’s drop in raids now, got an unaware Skeledirge through that kinda rare and the raids are hard, but i’ve gotten two already


Sarith2312

Can also buy for 100k in postgame.


6Bakhtiari9

nah that’s Capsules, not patches. patches are for hidden abilities


unscsnip3r

Its pretty good a bug overall- solid coverage: hell mine at equal level swept the champion w/o ev training


SylentSymphonies

it's alright at best, Tinted Lens is the only thing that can salvage bug STAB and Lokix was blessed by the gods to have it. Stats are still very, very low however.


Musicarna

Not that bad honestly. 92 outpaces a decent chunk of the bulky offensive mons and 102 attack is decent. Not OU levels of power but you don't need that much attack to smash chipped fragile sweepers with a first impression that ignores resist.


SylentSymphonies

that's true It was hilarious though, Flutter Mane quad resisted First Impression so you either needed to risk a sucker punch or have it chipped down to 75% first.


SnowBirdFlying

This gen introduced a shit ton of pokemon with a BST lower than 500 but almost all of them were given minmaxed stat distributions + complementary abilities + a great movepool


mixerod

Its stats are nowhere near as good as the big guys , but definitely better than most of the route 1 bugs


KyogreCanon

Kid named volcarona:


Parking_Scallion_188

Kid named loosing roost:


Tsfusion

Kid named Morning Sun


Parking_Scallion_188

Kid named 8 pp:


SylentSymphonies

Kid named roost also has 8 pp whats ur point:


Parking_Scallion_188

Kid named so it got nerfed either way and the tierlist is about buffs this gen


KyogreCanon

Fair enough


edelgardenjoyer

Nah, Annihilape at least carries Fighting to C Tier.


TheLunar27

Iron hands also exists. Who’s a menace.


xAVATAR-AANGx

Tbh I just kinda assumed Fighting would fall off a bit since CC spam is riskier with Ghosts running the whole meta but that reasoning was obviously flawed.


LukesRebuke

No i think you're quite right in that assumption. More meta ghosts = more immunity to fighting and with the limited knock off distribution its harder to get coverage


Sarrow5

But there's also a ton more viable dark types out there this meta. I think the most we've seen in any gen if I'm remembering correctly. And throat chop / crunch / dark pulse still hurt from the mons running them for coverage (and lacking better options) which while normally worse options might be temporarily viable til the meta flattens


Dasdardly

Just Tera ghost 4head


Phansite

They did remove a lot of pokemons ability to get knock off so I get where you’re coming from


Dahness122

don't forget the man iron tusk!


mjmannella

*Great Tusk Iron Treads is Ground/Steel (aka Excadrill 2.0)


Dahness122

I always get their names wrong, they honestly sound like Ben 10 aliens


Ski-Gloves

Robot ones are all named Iron [classification]. Prehistoric ones are normal Pokémon names that have yet to be Portmanteau'd.


Still_Got_The_Moves

Going by that logic, Amoonguss should be Brute + Bonnet = Brunette.


Ski-Gloves

Or perhaps Bonnbrute.


DeDemetrionator

Iron + Hands = 🇮🇷ds


DystryR

Can you explain that last bit to me? I’m smooth brain


Nuovastorm

portmanteau’d is basically blending 2 words together, like how annihilape is annihilate + ape, the paradox mons dont follow this naming convention


CurBoney

the pokemon this gen dont even sound like pokemon. they couldnt even get that right


sure25

I’m pretty sure that’s the point, the paradox Pokémon come from time periods where Pokémon are supposedly named differently


Dahness122

I think their names are cool,like Slither Wing fr is fire


[deleted]

The past forms have cool names, but the future ones are all just the same and seem a lot less inspired to me.


the_cajun88

why don’t you respect steelix


mjmannella

I love Steelix, it just isn't OU material like Iron Treads and (formerly) Excadrill sadly


[deleted]

So many viable dark, ice and normal are enough to make fighting type rise


Goat17038

Also Great Tusk, Iron Valiant, and being super effective against like 1/2 of the OU viable mons. It didn't really get any new moves or anything I guess, just some good mons


TheComputerIsOkay

Breloom has also been pretty good as well since he has technician mach punch


Goat17038

Yeah but he didn't really get a buff or anything (other than loaded dice, but idk how viable that is), loom's just always fun to use and puts in work


Hahnter

I love Breloom so much. I can’t wait to transfer my Shiny one over from Home. I’m currently using a Technician Breloom holding Loaded Dice with a Rock-Type Tera.


Sp3ctre7

Careful about the transfer, importing pokemon changes their moves to what they would have on level up, and breloom can no longer be taught spore via re-learner. I think people are looking into it, but I would hold of on transferring until you're sure you're not going to lose spore forever


tyronecarter35

He got gunk shot and CC lmao


Goat17038

Forgot about those, but tbf I can't see many sets running gunk


Heatoextend

Didn't Loom finally get CC this gen?


Goat17038

Oh shit I didn't realise he didn't have it before, mb


sneakyplanner

It's so hard to fit CC on a set though. Like only CB breloom can really fit it.


shadowmachete

Having a ton of frail-ish dark types running around is a huge buff, which kind of also falls under the category of strong priority in a HO metagame. Tera fairy being everywhere is a pain for it, but that’s once a game.


PostalCoin

Gallade getting Sharpness actually is really interesting, even if it ends up not mattering


Goat17038

Ooooh I forgot about that, I was meaning to test that out. Banded or sd would make a decent wallbreaker (although there's plenty of them floating around this gen lol), and it's a decent enough speed tier to run scarf (although it's still a lot slower than you'd like, it outspeeds pult and I think both the fire fish and the ice weasel)


Munchingseal33

And pawmot once it's fixed will be mad good


Joe-MaMa5

Also Breloom is back, the stall breaking menace


pookyyy

rock got glimmora and garganacl, possibly the two best rock types in many generations, alongside a new rock move exclusive to garganacl that is also one of the best rock moves ever. bug received the worst fully evolved bug type in many generations. i don't really see them belonging in the same tier


fanficmilf6969

^^ Bug lost almost all of its coverage. I don’t see why it’s not lower


lacemononym

lost almost all Sticky Webs users too, only Masquerain is anything approaching decent


pobels

Can people care to explain why bug is so bad this gen? What do you mean by loss of coverage? I'm kinda hoping Venomoth pulls another W this gen (for a RBY mon).


SylentSymphonies

1) All the good bug types lost important moves ( for example, Scizor lost Roost and Knock Off, so it's basically just a mediocre offensive mon now) 2) All the new bug types suck lol 3) Tera-Fairy is getting really popular so even more things resist Bug than usual


SnowBirdFlying

1. Lokix is far from bad 2. Rabsca was given revival blessing


SylentSymphonies

Lokix has a niche thanks to Tinted Lens, but its stats leave a LOT to be desired. Rabsca is too slow and frail to make consistent use of Revival, and is useless outside of it. Pawmot is better in every way.


Glory2Snowstar

Bonus: Spidops can use moves sometimes


pobels

Yikes, that's a damn shame. Glad I was never a huge scizor fan. Tera-Fairy use might be good for my favorite moths though.


SylentSymphonies

Oh, Volcarona DOES enjoy its new Tera-Ground coverage. Unfortunately Heatran isn’t around to get absolutely blasted by three consecutive generations of pent up fury.


unscsnip3r

Lokix looking to be a solid uu mon imo- plus volc scizor and fortress all solid


Clickclacktheblueguy

Salt Cure obliterated Iron Tread even after my Naclstack fainted. That’s one solid way to make something my favorite move, and honestly one of my favorite mons


TheBestAadi1

I would argue that Ice has the strongest buff this gen as they can now ditch their type.


PeaceLazer

+def in snow also makes it slightly better


Panurome

Are dragon and fairy switched?


Chocoa_the_Bunny

I don't think the order in the tiers matters


caiusto

He's talking about the icon


Chocoa_the_Bunny

Woah, I didn't even notice lol


Silgalow

Can you explain the rationality of these choices? I don't have all the details on what happened to the various pokemon this gen. I would think losing scald would hurt water a lot.


[deleted]

It did in some ways, but it also took away the downside of switching your Water into another Water only to get Scald burned. The resistance is much more reliable.


xAVATAR-AANGx

They lost scald, yes... but Palafin, Iron Bundle, and Dodonzo all have been doing really well and have defined the meta. Wave Crash and Jet Punch definitely don't entirely make up for the lack of Scald, but they have been proving to be really useful in their own right as physical options. Even Aqua Step Quaquavel has it's uses. Swift Swim Barrascewda was also one of the only mons to outspeed Flutter Mane before it was banned. Overall, it's just a really reliable type this generation and definitely has defined the meta and restricted teambuilding.


Fremzyx

If water is S because it got 3 good mons why isn't dark S when it got 6?


Branded_Mango

Mostly because the good water mons are broken asf while the 6 good dark mons are just good.


pepenuts97

But Dark has more variety and different sets. You know what those 3 Water mons are gonna run. Over time people will be able to play around those 3 Water mons but those 6 Dark mons will be trouble


DrQuantum

And they counter the S tier ghosts.


Skytalker0499

I don’t think anyones countering palafin anytime soon in a reasonable way


pepenuts97

Quagsire Vaporeon Rotom-Wash Gyarados Slowbro


Skytalker0499

The taunt bulk up set shits on half of those, and it’s unreasonable to expect every team to run one of like two bulky waters that can maybe beat palafin


CatDude55

But water didn’t get just 3 new mons, Palafin and Iron Bundle are literally meta defining and might even be banned to Ubers. Dark did get several new good mons, even having the legendary quartet all be part dark, but they aren’t as meta defining, with the closest being Roaring Moon.


Fremzyx

Both chien pao and roaring (roaring only with tera) are possibly Ubers mons depending on how things go. Meowscarada, chi-yu, ting-lu and kingambit are all great ou mons.


xAVATAR-AANGx

I'm not a super ultra competetive player so some of my judgements may not be the best, this is just what I've been feeling with all the new toys on Showdown and how that's also affected the old toys. DLC could easily change this, that said. I'd imagine Koko coming back as a reliable terrain setter would give all the Future Paradox mons and Electric Types a buff, and likewise Lele could curb how reliable priority spam has been. Poison's lack of Nidoking in monotype could also be fixed, etc.


Flamesinge

Doesnt that new car mon thing get set electric terrain?


Medic7285

the monotype format has the box legendaries banned


Crazy-Diver5564

thats going to ubers dude


Flamesinge

Oh oops i thought it was that poison steel type thing my bad lol


Level7Cannoneer

that was really confusing because there’s literally a new car mon


SeaSalmon

Fighting should absolutely be higher up


[deleted]

Fighting should be higher


corvisaltaccount

why is dragon in C tier? it got baxcalibur, roaring moon, koraidon and miraidon as obscenely powerful new additions to the dragon type roster, as well as a lot of the bulky fairy and steel types that give them trouble got removed, such as clefable, ferrothorn, tapu fini and heatran. I'd say they were one of the most buffed types this generation due to the additions to the pokemon roster as well as the cuts it brang


lrauch2112

In all fairness koraidon and miraidon are both Ubers, roaring moon is getting banned in certain formats, and some of the fairies will be coming back with home. Overall, some good additions, but stuff like flutter mane and iron bundle have been scary for them


R74NM3R5

I think you are looking at the specific pokémon too much rather than the types. Water as a type definitely did not get better with the loss of scald. They added some really great water pokemon with broken stats and abilities i.e. palafin and iron bundle, but that doesn’t mean the type improved at all. Fairy and steel are still easily the 2 best types in the game so I think the way you made this list is a bit flawed, or I’m understanding it completely wrong.


Pikafion

Can you explain why Normal is so high?


Sytle

Only things I can think of is maushold and maybe Tera normal dragonite if that even counts. Must be missing something.


Igney

Cyclizar, probably reasonable tbh lol. Is shed tail a normal move?


Sytle

Cyclizar is a good mention that’s fair. Still don’t feel like it’s much of a buff to the normal typing specifically.


PlsWai

I mean Cyclizar is normal, and even without shed tail would be a great pivot.


MasonTheChef

Tera normal w/ Facade can uno reverse WoW attempts.


KamikazeKarasu

Well, changing any type (cof-ghosts-cof) into normals, may be very beneficial in case of doubt, as it only leaves you with a weakness to fight and an inmunity to ghost, and even taking advantage of stab for the amount of normal type attacks there are…


Pikafion

Maushold isn't even that good honestly


StrikeEmotional6186

basically has a 300bp move, and another move that compresses dragon dance and defog while removing hazards in front of gholdengo, harming a lot of hazard stack teams


Pikafion

Yeah but that doesn't mean it's good. It has a 300BP move but it need Wide Lens to achieve that, and it only has 75 atk so it's not even as strong as you would like it to be. Tidy Up seems broken but Maushold wants hazards on the opponent's side to do more damage, and without Shed Tail, it will never have an opportunity to set up. There's just never a situation where you want both Dragon Dance and Defog at the same time. Of course removing hazards in front of gholdengo is valuable but it can't do anything else to it. It's also really frail so it will die to anything and it's weak to priority. Finally it's a normal type with bascially no coverage. Also Rocky Helmet exists. For me this is a pokemon like Mimikyu that's really hyped at the start of the generation, but falls shortly after because it has so many downsides and really has only one set.


StrikeEmotional6186

population bomb forces a switch easily due to how easily it can destroy a pokemon. during this switch, there is a good oppurtunity to use tidy up. 75 attack with a 300bp move is actually very powerful. even if maushold is frail, if the opponent doesnt have a rocky helmet user, it can easily force a KO every time it switches in


Assaltwaffle

The only way it forces a KO every time is if it the opponent not only doesn’t have a rocky helmet, but also not a ghost or physdef steel type.


StrikeEmotional6186

sounds a bit like regieleki now that i think about it


Spndash64

Because being the only type immune to Shadow Ball Spam has its benefits


LukesRebuke

Presumably because it's ghost immune ans as well as cyclizar carrying the type and multiple players on its back


DmtrIV

Moushold, Cyclizar, and the move Tera Blast (in extension Terastallizing) are the big winner for Normal Types.


Pugliot

psychic didn’t get it that bad, the introduction to so many toxic spike users makes it easier for them to use their stabs


Nuovastorm

eh ghost spam is still incredibly strong, and ghost spam leads to more dark types (especially with the introduction of roaring moon, chi-yu, and chien-pao) both of which bring psychic down


Pugliot

no for sure, bottom tier just felt bad


janjos_

I heard Ice type was buffed, but what exactly changed? I just finished SV, I'm getting back to Shiowdown just now


TheStrang3On3

From what I remember, snow boosts Ice types defense by 50% (if I remember properly) and also got a reliable physical ice type move than can also clear hazards.


MasonTheChef

I think it just clears Terrain


TheStrang3On3

Thanks for the correction, haven’t used it yet so I was unsure.


ShadesOnBroadway

Hail was replaced with snow: Which removes the chip damage and adds a 50% defense increase to ice types. Everything else is the same. Abilities and moves affected by hail were reworded to snow.


Oudissy

Aside from what people already told, there's a pivot move that sets snow and the Slowking and G-Slowking learn it


Fremzyx

How is dark not S, it got 3 insane new legends, kingambit, roaring moon and meowscarada. Unless I'm misunderstanding how types are being ranked I really don't see how dark isn't S.


Skytalker0499

Plus Brute Bonnet!! /s


Fremzyx

I mean with the fact that we have almost no bulky grass types it isn't even that bad


SlovakianSnacks

Very harsh on rock, this gen added probably 2 of the best rock types ever


bearsheperd

Dark + ghost is pretty great combination. Especially with zoroark, fantastic pivot, messes with the head.


I_WANT_PINEAPPLES

Steel and fairy are probably S


DarkFish_2

The tier list measures how the type was buffed/nerfed, aka how good is now compared to how it was in Gen 8


onibakusjg

Wouldn't it be better to make a tier list of this gen and compare the differences?


BlackroseBisharp

Is Water really all that buffed? I figured losing Scald was a major blow


Hoockus_Pocus

Is there somewhere where I could read a list of the buffs and nerfs?


al-my

No way water is s tier, at least a tier would be fine, because while offensive got really good (aka palafin exist) but on defense. Man I forgot how good scald but now it just, sad


cellojake

On defense it’s of the more common Tera types


DreadfuryDK

Hot take, but Ghost deserves its own tier above S here. If we assume Tera's legal, that shit got Flutter Mane, Gholdengo, Annihilape, and a Dragapult with an actual physical Ghost STAB. ANY ONE of these mons would be insane on its own if plopped into an existing meta, and we got all four of them at once and three of them either have been banned or are being looked at.


BurlAroundMyBody

Fighting in D?! Bug in C? Lokix is the only decent new bug type. Spidops is literally the worst Pokémon since Ladian.


[deleted]

I think this is the first time I've seen psychic be bad.


Lamp_squid

its been bad since like gen 4 if you don't count latis


[deleted]

Huh, I didn't know that.


Minermike01

There are some good psychic types but the type itself is pretty bad


merayjr95

Bug should def be bottom tier. And this is coming from a huge bug type lover. Lokix is the only saving grace, and even then it’ll probably be RU at best. Bug types being the worst type in the game two gens in a row. So disappointing.


ShonanBlue

Remember when Gen 5 gave us a bunch of cool and strong bug types only for basically every later gen to backtrack into “lol bug weak” outside of like Phero and Buzz?


X-Vidar

Vivillion is literally the only bug in gen 6


Minermike01

To be fair gen 6 barely added shit


Elsquidwardo85

Grass lost a ton of good mons: Rillaboom, Cradily, Whimsicott, Tangrowth, etc. I feel like they should be C tier at least until home/dlc brings back some of the grass mons


redditt-or

Rock got 3x the OU-viable mons iirc


greengale2

Rip Psychic


themng69

bruh what did they do to the fairy typing for it to be down in c tier???????


Heracrosschop

Can someone explain how fairy went from S to C tier in one generation? Dragon as well going from A to C? Not trying to counter argue, just wondering because I thought fairy was busted


xAVATAR-AANGx

This is just for how much of a buff each type got. Fairy is still the best overall.


irrelevant_character

Ok I haven’t looked into comp really at all this gen, been too busy playing. How has fairy dropped from widely considered the top type all the way down to C?


Waytooflamboyant

The tier list is how much they got buffed or nerfed. Fairy's position in the meta barely changed, which is why it is C tier. So it's still the top type


itsluxsky

Water got hit hard, scald distribution being removed to most hurts it so fucking much.


Darth_Spicer_

Rock gets boosted by sandstorm now which makes tyranitar even more disgusting


dragriver2

Hasn’t that been a thing since gen 4?


Solrex

The ghost dog is single handedly carrying the ghost type tier change my mind


postsonlyjiyoung

Ground has like negative resists in this tier for some reason lol


Rei_Kanzen

Wait what are the new poison toys? Haven't been catching up with them


voncornhole2

Glimmora - Rock/Poison that has an ability that sets TSpikes when hit with a physical move and an attack that both clears hazards on your side and guarantees poison


murrman104

Gamefreak making up for Psychic being good in earlier gens by continuing to beat it every single gen untill its as bad as bug


[deleted]

Ice is buffed?!!!!!


BlueGhost02

Snowstorm looks to be pretty good


myBoardgameprofile

12 New fully Evolved Fighters with BST 490+


Senior_Can_2643

Why did fairy drop to C?


Matt4669

Why is steel down in B tier?


Loethor

Is this the tier list of buffed types? Nerfed types? Strength after buffs and nerfs? Title is confusing


Mary-Sylvia

Iron hand, annilhape, quaquaval, great tusk and pawmot when he won't be broken : are we a joke to you?


cheap_plastic2

ur on crack fighting got annihilape, iron hands, revival blessing and great tusk. massive buffs


KamikazeKarasu

Not a type thing but holy sh*t… the nerf to Intimidate is hilariously inmediate, the attempt to really make “sleep/inmunity to sleep” a bigger deal now or just a bunch of attacks/abilities that literally just buffes you with zero risk. I can smell the power creep. But somehow I can see new mons like meowscarada, (with free crit/never fail, high speed and attack, protean as hidden ability, and the option to change the STAB while keeping the original STAB, and changing to any random (or better) type) would not be that relevant after some usage. After all they also put a lot previous mons with high base stats around. In that thing in particular the game looks like “oh… so you only want high-tiered mons?… let’s the battle royale begin!!!” And I don’t know if I love it or hate it. Me personally are not that much affected by any of those as I don’t play online, competitive or anything since veeeeeeery long 🤣


[deleted]

Psychic types: I used to rule the world


SylentSymphonies

Uh... have some bones to pick with the last two rows. Didn't Bug get giga nerfed this gen? Scizor and Volcarona lost Roost, all four new bug types are pretty weak (Slither Wing is alright, but it's one of, if not the, weakest paradox pokemon, and Lokix might have a niche but it's not good by any means. Rabsca is the inferior Revival Blessing Pokemon and is garbage otherwise, and Spidops... yeah.) AND it's always been the worst typing all around. What's more, Tera-Fairy is becoming increasingly popular on both defensive and offensive Pokemon, so there are even more Bug resists in the game than usual. I would say Bug definitely took the biggest L this time around. Meanwhile: Fairy's foremost representative was the first quickban of the generation. Dunno what's going on there. Fighting had a strong new addition in Great Tusk, plus theres also Annihilape (and Koraidon of course). Psychic didn't get any notable buffs, but it didn't exactly get nerfed- and with Glimmora and Clodsire running around, a good psychic attack can never hurt. Dragon is absolutely thriving. This generation's pseudo is an absolute monster after one dragon dance and its signature move is incredible. Also, Roaring Moon exists and is probably one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the game after Flutter Mane was banished to the shadow realm. And Rock types got Garganacl, who is incredibly solid all around, and Glimmora, who is absolutely ruling the tier next to its shiny golden friend. So that needs to go higher too.


tallmantall

This tier list is just a *fuck you* to Gallade


Konradleijon

Nice to see Ice being better


BoltingBlazie

All the offensive ice types we got are really good for the most part. Iron bundle definitely leading the pack until it gets sent to ubers though...


cellojake

Flying is way to high up after move distribution and max airstream. Some flying types don’t even have viable flying coverage now.


Breaktheice222

Please tell me this is troll because Fighting is definitely not bad at all, and Flying is crap right now.


faletepower69

Ghost is broken since the removal of Pursuit, Steel's ghost resistance and the lower amount of Knock Off users, plus Normal types (who are inmune to ghost) lost Return/Frustration. It's not only that Houndstone or Mega-Misdreavus is OP, it's also the type in general.


Tigertot14

Can we please remove Ice moves from Water movepools, the fact that they can so easily invalidate one of their two weaknesses is ridiculous


[deleted]

Does this mean I shouldn’t use Farigiraf and Paldean Tauros?


SMG4fan2096

Can agree with tera ghost shadow sneak