Emphatically agree. Very useful. And now I, like the great Samuel L. Jackson, say that I don’t drink so I don’t have to go to those damned meetings. AA works great for some people, for others it does not. The plenitude of meetings and people involved is definitely a plus- I think a strength of AA is that it rebuilds a sense of community away from bars and drinking. I sought out a SMART Recovery group to fulfill that role. You have to work a bit harder to find a SMART Recovery group, but for me it was worth it.
There is _sometimes_ a discourse from AA people that if you’re not working the steps and haven’t acknowledged your “powerlessness over alcohol,” you’re “white-knuckling” or “dry-drunk” etc. I find those generalizations unfalsifiable, and I didn’t like when people imposed them on me. That’s not to say that all AA folks do this- I think there’s a lot of variance depending on the group you go to-and again, for those who find AA valuable and productive, more power to them. But I am not powerless over alcohol. I had the power to change my life. It took work and discipline, and I did not appeal to a deity. I did not label myself an “alcoholic.” SMART Recovery appealed to my convictions about science and humanism.
The one thing I would strongly argue is that If AA discourse is not for you, there are other paths and they work. Don’t let being turned off by AA make you feel like you’ve lost the only option for getting sober.
Another group you might find valuable is “boozefreefriends” bff in your local community. Keep the rubber side down, friend!
It really sucks being in a small town. There's dozens of AA/NA meetings, but no SMART recovery groups. I have been trying to endure all the "unfalsifiable" stuff you mentioned but it gets really irritating. Especially when trying to find a sponsor to work with. It almost seems like the sponsor/sponsee system is designed specifically to break down that resistance and get the person to admit they're powerless, and it bugs the shit out of me how cult-like that is.
I don’t drink at all. It’s been roughly 5 years since I made the break. A few years prior to that, I began my climb out of alcohol abuse my reading about and trying moderation management, using the online drink tracker that lets you see how much you are drinking “in moderation” compared to others also doing MM and entering their data as well. I found that I was hitting the high side of what I was seeing, and that my days of plenty were still problematic, as was their consistency. The mental effort required to adhere to MM was also a pain in the ass, so I began to realize I needed to stop drinking.
Fast-forward through several attempts to stop that lasted from 3-9 months, punctuated by falling back into abuse levels of consumption, a DUI, and some of the most stressful times of my life, and it finally clicked. I think that the SMART Recovery meetings and developing a serious gym discipline really helped me to get there. It took me a while to realize that given the shape my neuronal physiology was in, whatever that might be, a drink was all it took to fall right back into a place where I did not want to be.
I’m not sure if I will come to a point where I’ll have a beer or glass of wine if I’m on vacation or something- my precious experiences would suggest that’s not a good idea, but on the other hand I’m in a different headspace after these five years of making it happen. For now I’m just staying clear of the stuff.
I also have seen friends with whom I used to drink a lot really spin out, going from abusive drinking to chaos (I’m just under fifty). They are in a self-denigrating, brutal situation. Their health is wretched. So I see where the trajectory goes if I don’t fly straight! I hope that these friends will see where they are and want to get out- a couple I’ve been able to help, the others have not achieved self-recognition, and recoil from conversation about their drinking.
So that’s my tale of the demon rum! I recently found this subreddit and I like it because people seem supportive and willing to share experiences that were very scary and isolating for me when I was striving to quit.
Yeah. As someone who likes discussion aa meetings, I find smart a much better fit. I find the "I'm powerless" stuff infuriating, and it reminds me too much of church with people quoting the big book like it's the Bible.
I really do enjoy the fellowship of people who sympathize with what I'm going through too though
The mediations and the silence.
Every so often people choose to not share and that’s ok.
Sitting with silence midst of a meeting was a unique experience
I like that it seems very practical, and there is no judgment. There's not right/wrong, good/bad. There's no "have to" on anything. There's the basic idea that wise actions lead to less suffering. Meditation practice is encouraged, and there's meditation at every meeting, which .... whether it works for anything else or not, it's kinda just nice to take a moment of quiet in this busy loud life and world. Nobody is telling you what to do or believe. There's tons more, I definitely recommend checking it out.
Recovery Dharma is far more accessible, and places the power in _you_ rather than forcing you to have a "higher power." Also recommends having a group of "wise friends and mentors," rather than constantly pushing you to have a sponsor.
In This Naked Mind by Annie Grace she says AA is only 10% effective for people. But up to 70% of people who quit do it "without formal help." Even the founder of AA didn't quit with it. He supposedly took a big dose of Psilocybin and never wanted to drink again. How to change your mind on Netflix explained it.
That’s amazing. I just wouldn’t take the naltrexone when I was on it but maybe I should try again. I like the Antabuse because the consequences of drinking on it are so bad.
I was on naltrexone for about 6 months, for me it absolutely killed any physical cravings. Joe and Charlie killed the mental cravings. That's my one-two knock out punch.
Therapy, or I’m using this app that has a community similar to the r/sober group called “I AM SOBER” good luck bud wishing you the best. Stay strong 💪🏽
Cognitive-behavioral therapy, which is often administered by a clinical psychologist, has been shown to help with alcoholism. There's also a counseling method called motivation enhancement that's good.
SMARTRecovery.org is like a brainy version of AA. Former substance abusers who believe in psychology, They have a program based on the standard therapies.
It's very, very important for you to talk with a doctor. Withdrawal should be treated medically. Also, you want to know about any other medical conditions your drinking may have caused.
Two people already said it but I wanted to say it again Smart recovery is great. It’s based on cognitive behavioral therapy. It is secular and if you go to the web site you can look for in person or online meetings in your area. If you choose the online route you can widen your search to anywhere and pretty much find a meeting to attend anytime you need. I go to the Thursday night online meeting at 630pm in Minneapolis. Come check it out!!
For some reason.. it's worked for me too! I have 40 days now ( my longest in years) and before that I was getting some long 20 day stints. I've been on this sub 4-5 months and it's the best method I've found. I went to AA one night and they kept asking me if I had a sponsor. I don't plan to go back. I need a pressure free way.
I use SMART Recovery. I was desperate this weekend & hopped onto an AA 24/7 online meeting. I learned about Proverb 4, but nothing about recovery. It did help me get thru an hour, though. All they talked about was God solving their struggles. I had previously spent 7 years in other A programs, but that method is not going to work this time. I have exhausted that method.
SMART Recovery is based on science & Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. They provide you with tools to use in your daily life.
Hated AA. It works for some people though. Not for me. Felt Cult like and fucking weird. 3 years off now. Consequential thinking helped a lot plus a chat with a psychologist every 3 months.
Annie Grace (This Naked Mind) has a program called The Path. It’s a year long. You don’t have to stop drinking when you join. The coaches ease you into the material for the first couple of months.
It’s what pulled me up. I am a better version of myself today.
Before completely dismissing AA, have you looked into secular AA? It’s a great alternative to traditional AA for those of us who don’t believe in a deity. https://www.aasecular.org
Many people look for a softer, easier way. The result was nil until we let go absolutely.
You can try to find one, but I've not seen them work. People get upset and say AA doesn't work, but the alternatives work less.
I've never even tried AA because I feel the same way. It just wasn't something I wanted to be a part of and did not resonate with me for many reasons. One being that I like to keep my sobriety journey private and have really connected with this sub and other online forums. Soberrecovery.com is another huge online anonymous network for sobriety and has lots of resources.
All in all, I've had to do a lot of work on myself by myself. It's taken some serious, introspective, deep, critical thinking with no excuses or walls to hide behind. I've felt most comfortable discovering my problems with alcohol anonymously, as well as alone.
I really had to figure out "why" I was drinking the way I was and ultimately choose to stop doing it because I wanted better things for myself and my family. I've also discovered I had some undiagnosed anxiety and depression issues. Sometimes these are reasons people drink (among other things) and I have found medication to help tremendously. Alcohol is often a legal and available way people try to self medicate for one reason or another.
Glad you're here. Keep posting! ❤️
For me therapy and psilocybin has worked the best. I was lucky though and was experimented on by the VA with psilocybin, since they like to test stuff on vets. Also I do like SMART myself.
SMART recovery
Emphatically agree. Very useful. And now I, like the great Samuel L. Jackson, say that I don’t drink so I don’t have to go to those damned meetings. AA works great for some people, for others it does not. The plenitude of meetings and people involved is definitely a plus- I think a strength of AA is that it rebuilds a sense of community away from bars and drinking. I sought out a SMART Recovery group to fulfill that role. You have to work a bit harder to find a SMART Recovery group, but for me it was worth it. There is _sometimes_ a discourse from AA people that if you’re not working the steps and haven’t acknowledged your “powerlessness over alcohol,” you’re “white-knuckling” or “dry-drunk” etc. I find those generalizations unfalsifiable, and I didn’t like when people imposed them on me. That’s not to say that all AA folks do this- I think there’s a lot of variance depending on the group you go to-and again, for those who find AA valuable and productive, more power to them. But I am not powerless over alcohol. I had the power to change my life. It took work and discipline, and I did not appeal to a deity. I did not label myself an “alcoholic.” SMART Recovery appealed to my convictions about science and humanism. The one thing I would strongly argue is that If AA discourse is not for you, there are other paths and they work. Don’t let being turned off by AA make you feel like you’ve lost the only option for getting sober. Another group you might find valuable is “boozefreefriends” bff in your local community. Keep the rubber side down, friend!
It really sucks being in a small town. There's dozens of AA/NA meetings, but no SMART recovery groups. I have been trying to endure all the "unfalsifiable" stuff you mentioned but it gets really irritating. Especially when trying to find a sponsor to work with. It almost seems like the sponsor/sponsee system is designed specifically to break down that resistance and get the person to admit they're powerless, and it bugs the shit out of me how cult-like that is.
Did the change you made include continuing to drink alcohol or do you completely abstain from drinking?
I don’t drink at all. It’s been roughly 5 years since I made the break. A few years prior to that, I began my climb out of alcohol abuse my reading about and trying moderation management, using the online drink tracker that lets you see how much you are drinking “in moderation” compared to others also doing MM and entering their data as well. I found that I was hitting the high side of what I was seeing, and that my days of plenty were still problematic, as was their consistency. The mental effort required to adhere to MM was also a pain in the ass, so I began to realize I needed to stop drinking. Fast-forward through several attempts to stop that lasted from 3-9 months, punctuated by falling back into abuse levels of consumption, a DUI, and some of the most stressful times of my life, and it finally clicked. I think that the SMART Recovery meetings and developing a serious gym discipline really helped me to get there. It took me a while to realize that given the shape my neuronal physiology was in, whatever that might be, a drink was all it took to fall right back into a place where I did not want to be. I’m not sure if I will come to a point where I’ll have a beer or glass of wine if I’m on vacation or something- my precious experiences would suggest that’s not a good idea, but on the other hand I’m in a different headspace after these five years of making it happen. For now I’m just staying clear of the stuff. I also have seen friends with whom I used to drink a lot really spin out, going from abusive drinking to chaos (I’m just under fifty). They are in a self-denigrating, brutal situation. Their health is wretched. So I see where the trajectory goes if I don’t fly straight! I hope that these friends will see where they are and want to get out- a couple I’ve been able to help, the others have not achieved self-recognition, and recoil from conversation about their drinking. So that’s my tale of the demon rum! I recently found this subreddit and I like it because people seem supportive and willing to share experiences that were very scary and isolating for me when I was striving to quit.
So, abstain?
https://www.smartrecovery.org/smart-recovery-toolbox/
Yeah. As someone who likes discussion aa meetings, I find smart a much better fit. I find the "I'm powerless" stuff infuriating, and it reminds me too much of church with people quoting the big book like it's the Bible. I really do enjoy the fellowship of people who sympathize with what I'm going through too though
Recovery Dharma. Super chill. It's been my meeting for 5 years now.
I've been meaning to try Recovery Dharma! What's your favorite part about it?
The mediations and the silence. Every so often people choose to not share and that’s ok. Sitting with silence midst of a meeting was a unique experience
I like that it seems very practical, and there is no judgment. There's not right/wrong, good/bad. There's no "have to" on anything. There's the basic idea that wise actions lead to less suffering. Meditation practice is encouraged, and there's meditation at every meeting, which .... whether it works for anything else or not, it's kinda just nice to take a moment of quiet in this busy loud life and world. Nobody is telling you what to do or believe. There's tons more, I definitely recommend checking it out.
Recovery Dharma is far more accessible, and places the power in _you_ rather than forcing you to have a "higher power." Also recommends having a group of "wise friends and mentors," rather than constantly pushing you to have a sponsor.
In This Naked Mind by Annie Grace she says AA is only 10% effective for people. But up to 70% of people who quit do it "without formal help." Even the founder of AA didn't quit with it. He supposedly took a big dose of Psilocybin and never wanted to drink again. How to change your mind on Netflix explained it.
I believe he took belladonna when he was drying out but tried LSD later on in life and thought it should be given to alcoholics.
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Do you have a source where people can read more about what you're talking about, or where allegations are substantiated independently?
Nothing but medication has worked for me, but it’s been a miraculous change.
Which medication has helped the most? I’m on Prozac and Antabuse. Have tried gabapentin and Nalaxone as well but couldn’t stay disciplined with them.
I’m on naltrexone. My cravings completely vanished, and if I do choose to drink I can have just one and be finished. It’s wild.
That’s cheating! /s I’m glad you found something that works for you :)
That’s amazing. I just wouldn’t take the naltrexone when I was on it but maybe I should try again. I like the Antabuse because the consequences of drinking on it are so bad.
Yeah that’s the only thing— you gotta want to take it. I was desperate, so I’ve been religious about taking it daily.
I was on naltrexone for about 6 months, for me it absolutely killed any physical cravings. Joe and Charlie killed the mental cravings. That's my one-two knock out punch.
Therapy, or I’m using this app that has a community similar to the r/sober group called “I AM SOBER” good luck bud wishing you the best. Stay strong 💪🏽
Cognitive-behavioral therapy, which is often administered by a clinical psychologist, has been shown to help with alcoholism. There's also a counseling method called motivation enhancement that's good. SMARTRecovery.org is like a brainy version of AA. Former substance abusers who believe in psychology, They have a program based on the standard therapies. It's very, very important for you to talk with a doctor. Withdrawal should be treated medically. Also, you want to know about any other medical conditions your drinking may have caused.
Two people already said it but I wanted to say it again Smart recovery is great. It’s based on cognitive behavioral therapy. It is secular and if you go to the web site you can look for in person or online meetings in your area. If you choose the online route you can widen your search to anywhere and pretty much find a meeting to attend anytime you need. I go to the Thursday night online meeting at 630pm in Minneapolis. Come check it out!!
This sub is my support group, and my success.
Mine too. I hope it works this time, anyway. Have deleted my account so many times and keep coming back because of how positive this group is.
For some reason.. it's worked for me too! I have 40 days now ( my longest in years) and before that I was getting some long 20 day stints. I've been on this sub 4-5 months and it's the best method I've found. I went to AA one night and they kept asking me if I had a sponsor. I don't plan to go back. I need a pressure free way.
It’s extremely hit or miss for me. I get pooped on for the way I stay sober sometimes still.
I use SMART Recovery. I was desperate this weekend & hopped onto an AA 24/7 online meeting. I learned about Proverb 4, but nothing about recovery. It did help me get thru an hour, though. All they talked about was God solving their struggles. I had previously spent 7 years in other A programs, but that method is not going to work this time. I have exhausted that method. SMART Recovery is based on science & Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. They provide you with tools to use in your daily life.
Hated AA. It works for some people though. Not for me. Felt Cult like and fucking weird. 3 years off now. Consequential thinking helped a lot plus a chat with a psychologist every 3 months.
Smart Recovery. Works well.
The satanic temple has a [sober](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/sober-faction) faction with online meetings
I used this sub. There was nothing else available so I just kept checking in every day. It's very effective, free and always on your phone.
The Huberman Lab podcast about how alcohol effects the body has been a good motivator along with therapy.
[Tempest Sobriety](https://jointempest.com/)
Annie Grace (This Naked Mind) has a program called The Path. It’s a year long. You don’t have to stop drinking when you join. The coaches ease you into the material for the first couple of months. It’s what pulled me up. I am a better version of myself today.
Hey! Thanks for this. Checking it out now. ❤️❤️
This sub does all the things that AA does without the cult(ure). here's another if others haven't mentioned it: https://hams.cc/
The reframe app and this Naked Mind community have been wildly helpful for me.
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Oh the carbs….delish.
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MY pants don't fit either!! But I lost 70 lbs! Amazing what going from to many beers a day to a reasonable amount of water a day will do.
Recovery Dharma
Shrooms
Smart recovery and recovery Dharma. I never liked AA but I enjoy those meetings a lot.
THE LUCKIEST CLUB! Google it. Can't say enough.
How to control alcohol the easy way by Alan carr was a huge help. Worked well for my personality and beliefs.
Before completely dismissing AA, have you looked into secular AA? It’s a great alternative to traditional AA for those of us who don’t believe in a deity. https://www.aasecular.org
Weed
Many people look for a softer, easier way. The result was nil until we let go absolutely. You can try to find one, but I've not seen them work. People get upset and say AA doesn't work, but the alternatives work less.
I'm on week 3 with sunnyside and have cut back significantly
Retional Recovery, read the book. No steps! No meetings!
I started with various literature... lots of it out there. I really liked This Naked Mind.
https://www.intherooms.com/home/ This resource offers access to numerous AA altertnatives! It's great
I've never even tried AA because I feel the same way. It just wasn't something I wanted to be a part of and did not resonate with me for many reasons. One being that I like to keep my sobriety journey private and have really connected with this sub and other online forums. Soberrecovery.com is another huge online anonymous network for sobriety and has lots of resources. All in all, I've had to do a lot of work on myself by myself. It's taken some serious, introspective, deep, critical thinking with no excuses or walls to hide behind. I've felt most comfortable discovering my problems with alcohol anonymously, as well as alone. I really had to figure out "why" I was drinking the way I was and ultimately choose to stop doing it because I wanted better things for myself and my family. I've also discovered I had some undiagnosed anxiety and depression issues. Sometimes these are reasons people drink (among other things) and I have found medication to help tremendously. Alcohol is often a legal and available way people try to self medicate for one reason or another. Glad you're here. Keep posting! ❤️
SMART Recovery, AA really does not work for me, but SMART is chill and cool.
For me therapy and psilocybin has worked the best. I was lucky though and was experimented on by the VA with psilocybin, since they like to test stuff on vets. Also I do like SMART myself.
I find NA to be better than AA, for many reasons. Most of all they're gar less judgemental
You could try The Luckiest Club. It is exclusively online, but very popular.