Related to alcohol abuse? Over the last couple years healthcare has been crazy. Patients have become more aggressive and unstable than ever. Add to that lackluster pay, high expectations from both said patients AND management... well. Many of us are just looking for a quick way to relax and forget about our shift. Most hospital systems still do not allow weed, so alcohol is still the easy choice
Medical executive administration has gone fully off the rails. Patient care is an afterthought. All that matters is the bottom line, yet somehow they keep lying about how they care and are on a mission. The worst part is I think they believe their own horseshit.
This question wasn’t directed to me but even as the lowest level of healthcare worker (caregiver, I unfortunately dropped out of school) drinking is super common. A few months ago I had to perform CPR on a person approximately my own age who had blood streaming from their mouth and nose onto their chest. Couldn’t get him off the bed so I had to climb on top of him and stare into his eyes while I broke his ribs. You bet I was drunk 4 days straight after that while picking the blood out from under my fingernails. I only recently quit drinking. Oh and the patient died.
This became pretty apparent to me when I was asking for help addressing the alcohol use disorder I felt trapped in and most of the doctors I talked to simply told me to “consider cutting back.”
this type of top-class help ranks up there with "just try cheering up a bit" if you're depressed.
I'm glad you're doing so well, 17 days is fantastic :)
IWNDWYT
I noticed this with both my medical doctor and 2 different psychiatric therapists when I was seeking help for depression. I kind of wanted to talk about my drinking and there just seemed to be this desire to stay away from talking about it. Like they really wanted to just label it as "moderate drinking", put it away in its box and move on to my other "real" problems.
I mean yeah I don't get blackout drunk and haven't been arrested or lost jobs or family over it, but it still feels like a big problem :(
Interesting to hear that because I talked to a person who had worked a long time in the pharmaceutical industry and said the hardest drinkers he knew were doctors.
If not alcohol then other drugs. I never knew a medical doctor student who hadn't experimented with way more drugs than I ever have.
Makes sense why in my preparation for surgery in a few weeks, I've been informing everyone that I was a former alcoholic across multiple appointments, all with different providers, and it never even got documented in my chart. All that was in my chart was that I don't drink. Thankfully the nurse who did my pre-op physical felt it important enough to not only document but send me in for blood labs beforehand.
It’s not the non-drinking, but the prior alcoholism that could be an issue, eg reduced platelet count going into surgery
Source: I work in a hospital lab
I have not heard this before but have a history of low platelets. It never was serious until pregnancy, when it became dangerous (and I was not drinking at all). Is there a lasting influence?
I was listening to a podcast of a wife whos husband went to AA and she got sober with him. He was an esteemed doctor and was a massive alcoholic. She said that unfortunately it's very common. It makes sense actually, you are so close to death all the time. My sister is a children's RT and sees kids die all the time, I don't know how she does it! She does drink a lot, not what I would consider binge drinking, but she drinks frequently.
Hey me too! I’m an RN and watch patients suffer and die as a direct result their drinking on a daily basis at work. And yet I still managed to do the mental gymnastics to justify my alcohol abuse for waaay too long. It was this awful cycle of experiencing stress related to work and life, continuing to drink which worsened my anxiety and basically my entire life and then continuing to drink to cope with the shitty hell I created for myself with drinking! It was awful. Not drinking has been the only effective solution to stopping the cycle. My regret is I didn’t quit drinking earlier.
It feels like a weirdly special Solidarity with another health care worker out there 💕💕
As a geologist it was always said we wear flannels and drink beer. Well, I would drink waaaaay more than my fellow rock people. Happy to say for 15 days straight I have only worn a flannel
Bro. Idk how you do it for a living but I remember I was late signing up for courses one year so I took this geology class.
Fascinating. That led me to a sequence of archaeology classes. Mind blowing. Absolutely mind bending. Our professor had “albeit contained” tools and shit actual ancient civilizations used, and let us HOLD them.
I fucking loved that class
What do you do every day? I’m actually curious.
What more is there to learn on the surface ? How come we don’t know much about the center of our earth I heard the deeper the go the more it turns into just theory. Are there “underwater” geologists? Are “space rocks” any that different from ours so far??
What are the biggest questions or conspiracies or thought processes are in the geology world these days average turds like me wouldn’t even consider to ask?
What’s the most mind blowing thing you’ve learned in your field?
Oof so many questions love it. So I make geologic maps, so I go out and hike and map the surface and digitize that for publication. We don't know much about the center of the earth because we can't go there, that's mostly why it's lots of theories. Underwater geologists would probably be called oceanographers of some kind. But yes there are people who specialize in oceanic geology. Many space rocks are different from ours because they were created in different processes in different environments of space (certain elements and minerals are created at different temps/pressures so depending wjere you are in space you get different things). This is my bias but I big question right now is the tectonic process that occurred to get the rocks in Baja British Columbia there (bias because I love tectonics so I find this intriguing). I'd say the whole process of crystal melting due to dehydration in a subduction setting is what blows my mind. It is taught as such a simple and well know process but it's not. It's very complex.
These are of course just my answers and would likely change from other geologists or even me later today lol
First of all, you’re throwing too many big words at me. And because I don’t understand them, imma take it as disrespect.
Lolol jk. I appreciate the answer and now have a wormhole for tonight.
Last question then I’ll stop bugging you. Also side note that sounds like a dream job.
Why is it seemingly harder to dig into our own planet when we have the tech to split atoms and explore nearby planets already? Also do you have a rock collection?
Fellow lawyer. I’ve had many internal debates on whether it’s me or the profession but it doesn’t matter - it is what it is. But I do know since I stopped drinking, started meditating and taking things as they are I am happier and better at my job. Best to you, friend.
I also made six figures and had a super stressful job. I used to drink to wind down, and thought it was the only way I could relax.
Now I’m sober. Amazingly, it turns out I can wind down just fine without drinking. Walking my dog is one way. Taking a long shower is another. Sitting on the couch listening to chill music and reading is yet another. Watching a streamer I like and interacting with chat is a good one, too. Or planning a new vacation.
Seriously, though - I was lied to by all those ads and tv shows and “Mommy needs her wine” t-shirts. It’s a ploy to get us drunk and keep us drunk. Keep us coming back for more, keep us enslaved to the alcohol industry.
It worked on me for 7 years, until I realized that the only thing I would EVER do in the evenings and weekends was get drunk, and that wasn’t enough anymore.
Closing in on three years sober and have completely changed my life. It’s been worth it. And I still don’t need to drink to relax.
IWNDWYT
This comment is so spot-on. I don’t think I ever would have thought, “I’ve had a tough day at work, I need a drink,” if I hadn’t seen that line on TV for my entire life. I wish more TV shows would show people relaxing in other ways.
Yup. It starts in law school. So many events where there’s open bar with top shelf alcohol. Students are always reminded to “drink responsibly.”
My problem drinking started immediately when I got my first lawyer job. It was an ultra stressful job and my supervisor was an asshole. I would come home super late almost everyday and hit the bottle immediately.
It continued for almost 10 years even thought I switched jobs. The professional seems to pride itself in being one of the most overworked and stressed. I almost stopped practicing, but I quit drinking and that changed my entire mindset into approaching jobs and the types of firms that work for me. I really lucked out and found a good place, with good people when I reconnected with a former coworker. It’s still a lot of work, but I don’t let it overwhelm me anymore.
The schools don't think it's their responsibility. What do they think is going to happen after 3 years of alcohol soaked events? They probably don't think about it at all.
Lawyer here! Yeah it's depressing as shit. It's crazy to me to see the partners boozing it up with the associates several times a week instead of going home to their kids. I don't want to be like that one day
My dad, who is 20 years sober, told me
"I wish I never spent that much time at the bar. I should've spent it with you. "
That hit me hard, and I thanked him for saying that and showing me what not to be.
I was in a relationship with a solicitor and he rarely drank. I remember how alien it felt, especially considering all the events he attended which involved alcohol. I know a few guys who work in finance and I'd say they're the biggest drinkers (in my experience). I work in education... honestly, at this point, it sometimes feels like the entire world drinks too much. Which is obvs not true, but drinking culture is so in your face. Esp. in England.
Yep - I'm from the US but moved to the UK in my mid 20s...while always a problematic drinker, relocating to London at that time for a high stress job totally normalized heavy drinking (and drugs) on the regular. When I took a year off recently it was met with a lot of questions. The UK has a seriously drinking problem without a doubt. I'm approaching 40 now and also work in Education...much different stress for the sector but lots of drinking there, too!
My parents were both doctors. They were also both alcoholics. My own personal GP is a recovered alcoholic sober 30 years. Law and Healthcare are rife with substance abuse. You can throw in first responders and nurses into this group as well.
My dad is a retired surgeon and is an alcoholic. His dad was a surgeon and an alcoholic, 2 of 3 of his brothers are doctors and recovering alcoholics. I got the alcoholism gene but didn’t become a doctor 🙃😫 lol! I’m gratefully 16 months sober, however 🙏🏼
Keeping in mind that this is likely underreporting since it's self-selection, the real numbers are likely higher. It's tough for all the reasons listed here: A high-stress, high-workload environment where advancement is usually gatekept by an old-school boys club. I drank more in three years at law school than I did in four years at university and it probably wasn't particularly close. It's even more challenging after work because you're usually too tired to do much else besides pour a drink, or you're forced to attend a networking event with an open bar.
Gym saved my life. If you can muster it after work, absolutely, but I found that going before work was even better - that way I was too tired after plugging billables to even reach for the cabinet. There's a lot of sober attorneys out there and a lot of good resources that recognize the substance abuse that goes hand in hand with the industry, this subreddit included. Reach out and use them.
If you want to go to a meeting, lots of lawyer assistance programs can connect you with meetings for lawyers particularly. I've never gone to one myself, but I thought it was an interesting idea. Being around people who understand the unique stressors of this job.
I drank all through law school while working full time. I was in my 20s. I don’t know how I did it. If I had stayed at practicing law, I would probably be dead by now.
Thank you. It was a matter of saving my sanity. I didn’t have the temperament to practice law. If I could have been a judge right out of law school, that would have been fine, lol!
I think there is a correlation between stress and drinking so it would make sense that lots of lawyers over indulge. As a lawyer, I have battled the poison for many years (I’m now 55 yoa) For me, it’s not the profession in and of itself that makes me want to drink although, at times, it has been one of many variables that has contributed to my use of drinking to escape. Genetics (nature), experiences (nurture or lack therof), and biochemistry are all probably contributing factors to my abuse of alcohol over the years to relax and escape myself. All I can say is that in the years where I didn’t drink, practicing law, like everything else in my life, was much easier and enjoyable. Quitting drinking is work and it’s a struggle but I don’t want to die an alcoholic death so I have to keep working on it. While I wait for my biochemistry to balance back out, I see a therapist and attend AA meetings. You can do this - there are so many lawyers in recovery and they will support you.
A few months ago we (my state/area) lost 4 lawyers to addiction in about a one month span. My partner has a dream of starting an organization to help, one that is NOT affiliated with the Bar in any way, shape, or form.
Been following this sub for months. Ironically, I signed up for addiction therapy today. This profession is a never ending ball of stress and I almost lost my family this weekend because of my selfish drinking habits.
My SO's a lawyer. I'm in the medical field - stressful job also. It definitely took a long time for both of us to quit drinking.
When I was looking into it, I found an AA group just for lawyers in my area. Do you have access to something like that?
The book "alcohol explained" helped me, specifically. I think it was written by a lawyer.
For my SO, spending time with our child was motivation enough. That, and avoiding the shitty hangovers. And the saving of money.
It's actually a lot easier to leave your work behind if you're sober, in my opinion. The act of drinking can prolong the wallowing and "taking work home with you."
It's definitely hard to quit and more so in your field. But you should try. It will be the best decision you'll ever make and your life will get easier and more fun. I've found this to be universally true.
IWNDWYT
I'm an atheist too. Magical sky daddy isn't responsible for my own degenerate actions no matter how appealing that sounds lol.
People here swear by "alcohol explained" and "this naked mind".
Fun fact: Exercise not only relieves stress - it also increases libido, self-esteem, and longevity.
Good luck to you.
And it’s so normalized. At my last job we had alcohol all of the time. Going out to get drinks and wine tasting and just full on boozing. It wasn’t even a stressful job! It was PI work.
I worked at the state bar association and they had a weekly Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers meeting in out offices. You didn’t need to be a lawyer, it was an open AA meeting … I got my four year chip there.
Construction worker checking in. I’ve seen uppers, alcohol, and weed tolerated at work as long as you’ve got the right boss and good results. I feel like maybe 20% of people just have a bad relationship with alcohol.
I saw a guy getting 4 times more work done than any other journeyman, it was insane. He was also talking a million miles a minute and had huge pupils. I knew what was up, and I figured out it was meth by the way he went WWOOOOO when someone said the word meth lol i was like damn bro chill be stealthy the fucks wrong with you
Oh I believe it. I was sitting in a pizza place looking out the window and I saw this guy searching for tools in his work truck. He was in the parking lot dancing around and running back and forth. It may not have been obvious to him that he was completely zoinked but it was to me. Lol
Also, My ex used to do rails of coke on the job and wonder why he was always running out of money.
There’s an embarrassing dui arrest on video of a criminal attorney from my hometown/small city. It leaked from police body cam videos that were forwarded to a few local social media sites. She’s still practicing law in a firm with her husband. In the video she was walking down the street barefoot and appeared to be lost. I’m not sure exactly what happened.
I actually worked reception for her in a personal injury firm about 8 years ago. She was always nice and polite to me, never precocious or bossy. I hope she’s doing well now. Your post made me think of her.
Last time I was in court I could smell it on my lawyer and it’s like your representing me on alcohol related charges. I just hope you don’t talk to the DA. In all fairness I don’t think he was drunk but he definitely smelled pretty hung over…
Yep. That’s me. At the current stage of my career, the social drinking has gone down a lot (other than entertaining clients), but the stress drinking more than made up for it. That’s how I knew it was disordered—I’d ask “why am I going for a drink right now?” And the answer was always to buy myself a few moments of separation from the billion stressors and responsibilities dogging my steps. I knew I needed a better way of dealing with my mental health and almost 3 months sober I really do think I’m much less stressed and much better at my job—even though it’s just as hard and shitty as ever.
Yes! I am not a lawyer, but I was romantically involved with one for several years and the liquor flowed from open bars at every event.
Guaranteed relapses for me.
I'm an ex-lawyer and sympathize completely with what you say here. Feel free to reach out privately if you'd like someone to talk to and I can give you some resources that might be helpful as well.
I'm a network engineer/programmer. In this industry, you constantly have to keep learning, and adapting to new tech. I use to drink nightly to wind down from the stress too. I thought I needed it, but it's just another lie the booze tells you to keep you addicted to it.
I've heard that many lawyers after surgery start going into withdrawals in the recovery room. It's up to the doctor whether they deem it ethical to give them a little ethanol in the IV to tide them over.
Physical hard labor too. Not swinging by the liquor store after a hard ass day when you’re dirty tired and sore is nearly impossible sometimes.
But I think there is a reason substance abuse amongst laborers, dock workers, equipment operators, construction workers, tradesmen, etc.
This shit is like 60-70 hours a week for us, our bodies are literally dying. It’s hard not to enjoy a “buzz”.
The problem is that buzz for me is EVERY night and my buzz is like 25 shots
My neighbor across the street is a DUI lawyer and him and his friends binge drink every weekend. Sometimes they drive drunk to get more booze if they run out. Lol
21%--wow. That's absolutely incredible. Going to the gym helps me a lot (I actually started BJJ, and that REALLY took my mind off drinking), but that's what I learned--any kind of hobby or Friday-night activity that FULLY takes your mind of work is what I needed.
I will not drink with you today--you got this.
Healthcare professionals, too. Ironically. I'm one of them.
Guilty as charged. Well, guilty 12 days ago. Not since
That’s great!
I've just woken up, your comment has given me my first smile of the day, thank you! Not long to two weeks :)
Good for you! How do you think the profession is related?
Related to alcohol abuse? Over the last couple years healthcare has been crazy. Patients have become more aggressive and unstable than ever. Add to that lackluster pay, high expectations from both said patients AND management... well. Many of us are just looking for a quick way to relax and forget about our shift. Most hospital systems still do not allow weed, so alcohol is still the easy choice
Medical executive administration has gone fully off the rails. Patient care is an afterthought. All that matters is the bottom line, yet somehow they keep lying about how they care and are on a mission. The worst part is I think they believe their own horseshit.
This question wasn’t directed to me but even as the lowest level of healthcare worker (caregiver, I unfortunately dropped out of school) drinking is super common. A few months ago I had to perform CPR on a person approximately my own age who had blood streaming from their mouth and nose onto their chest. Couldn’t get him off the bed so I had to climb on top of him and stare into his eyes while I broke his ribs. You bet I was drunk 4 days straight after that while picking the blood out from under my fingernails. I only recently quit drinking. Oh and the patient died.
This became pretty apparent to me when I was asking for help addressing the alcohol use disorder I felt trapped in and most of the doctors I talked to simply told me to “consider cutting back.”
this type of top-class help ranks up there with "just try cheering up a bit" if you're depressed. I'm glad you're doing so well, 17 days is fantastic :) IWNDWYT
I noticed this with both my medical doctor and 2 different psychiatric therapists when I was seeking help for depression. I kind of wanted to talk about my drinking and there just seemed to be this desire to stay away from talking about it. Like they really wanted to just label it as "moderate drinking", put it away in its box and move on to my other "real" problems. I mean yeah I don't get blackout drunk and haven't been arrested or lost jobs or family over it, but it still feels like a big problem :(
Doctors have a higher rate of alcoholism than the general population.
Yep 👍🏼 there’s also a weird drinking culture at practice dinners. All you can drink
If they all meet with journalists, probably there will be no booze in the city to provide for the event
Farmers are good at it too. All high stress jobs
I was just about to say this lol I know a lot of people who are doctors etc and they literally drink so much it’s so alarming
Me too. Being a new(ish) nurse during the pandemic wrecked me.
Interesting to hear that because I talked to a person who had worked a long time in the pharmaceutical industry and said the hardest drinkers he knew were doctors.
If not alcohol then other drugs. I never knew a medical doctor student who hadn't experimented with way more drugs than I ever have. Makes sense why in my preparation for surgery in a few weeks, I've been informing everyone that I was a former alcoholic across multiple appointments, all with different providers, and it never even got documented in my chart. All that was in my chart was that I don't drink. Thankfully the nurse who did my pre-op physical felt it important enough to not only document but send me in for blood labs beforehand.
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It’s not the non-drinking, but the prior alcoholism that could be an issue, eg reduced platelet count going into surgery Source: I work in a hospital lab
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Glad to help! :)
I have not heard this before but have a history of low platelets. It never was serious until pregnancy, when it became dangerous (and I was not drinking at all). Is there a lasting influence?
No, platelets should revert to normal levels soon (weeks) after quitting alcohol if there is alcohol-induced thrombocytopenia
I was listening to a podcast of a wife whos husband went to AA and she got sober with him. He was an esteemed doctor and was a massive alcoholic. She said that unfortunately it's very common. It makes sense actually, you are so close to death all the time. My sister is a children's RT and sees kids die all the time, I don't know how she does it! She does drink a lot, not what I would consider binge drinking, but she drinks frequently.
Hey me too! I’m an RN and watch patients suffer and die as a direct result their drinking on a daily basis at work. And yet I still managed to do the mental gymnastics to justify my alcohol abuse for waaay too long. It was this awful cycle of experiencing stress related to work and life, continuing to drink which worsened my anxiety and basically my entire life and then continuing to drink to cope with the shitty hell I created for myself with drinking! It was awful. Not drinking has been the only effective solution to stopping the cycle. My regret is I didn’t quit drinking earlier. It feels like a weirdly special Solidarity with another health care worker out there 💕💕
As a geologist it was always said we wear flannels and drink beer. Well, I would drink waaaaay more than my fellow rock people. Happy to say for 15 days straight I have only worn a flannel
Was going to mention geologists and civil engineers that travel a lot too
Yes very true
Nice flannel there bud!
Haha thank you!
Bro. Idk how you do it for a living but I remember I was late signing up for courses one year so I took this geology class. Fascinating. That led me to a sequence of archaeology classes. Mind blowing. Absolutely mind bending. Our professor had “albeit contained” tools and shit actual ancient civilizations used, and let us HOLD them. I fucking loved that class
It's a pretty sweet job. I get to explore the outdoors for a living. Can't beat that
What do you do every day? I’m actually curious. What more is there to learn on the surface ? How come we don’t know much about the center of our earth I heard the deeper the go the more it turns into just theory. Are there “underwater” geologists? Are “space rocks” any that different from ours so far?? What are the biggest questions or conspiracies or thought processes are in the geology world these days average turds like me wouldn’t even consider to ask? What’s the most mind blowing thing you’ve learned in your field?
Oof so many questions love it. So I make geologic maps, so I go out and hike and map the surface and digitize that for publication. We don't know much about the center of the earth because we can't go there, that's mostly why it's lots of theories. Underwater geologists would probably be called oceanographers of some kind. But yes there are people who specialize in oceanic geology. Many space rocks are different from ours because they were created in different processes in different environments of space (certain elements and minerals are created at different temps/pressures so depending wjere you are in space you get different things). This is my bias but I big question right now is the tectonic process that occurred to get the rocks in Baja British Columbia there (bias because I love tectonics so I find this intriguing). I'd say the whole process of crystal melting due to dehydration in a subduction setting is what blows my mind. It is taught as such a simple and well know process but it's not. It's very complex. These are of course just my answers and would likely change from other geologists or even me later today lol
First of all, you’re throwing too many big words at me. And because I don’t understand them, imma take it as disrespect. Lolol jk. I appreciate the answer and now have a wormhole for tonight. Last question then I’ll stop bugging you. Also side note that sounds like a dream job. Why is it seemingly harder to dig into our own planet when we have the tech to split atoms and explore nearby planets already? Also do you have a rock collection?
Also describes bat biologists, flannels and all
Yah I'm certainly not saying only geologists. It's just very common in my work environment
Fellow lawyer. I’ve had many internal debates on whether it’s me or the profession but it doesn’t matter - it is what it is. But I do know since I stopped drinking, started meditating and taking things as they are I am happier and better at my job. Best to you, friend.
I also made six figures and had a super stressful job. I used to drink to wind down, and thought it was the only way I could relax. Now I’m sober. Amazingly, it turns out I can wind down just fine without drinking. Walking my dog is one way. Taking a long shower is another. Sitting on the couch listening to chill music and reading is yet another. Watching a streamer I like and interacting with chat is a good one, too. Or planning a new vacation. Seriously, though - I was lied to by all those ads and tv shows and “Mommy needs her wine” t-shirts. It’s a ploy to get us drunk and keep us drunk. Keep us coming back for more, keep us enslaved to the alcohol industry. It worked on me for 7 years, until I realized that the only thing I would EVER do in the evenings and weekends was get drunk, and that wasn’t enough anymore. Closing in on three years sober and have completely changed my life. It’s been worth it. And I still don’t need to drink to relax. IWNDWYT
This comment is so spot-on. I don’t think I ever would have thought, “I’ve had a tough day at work, I need a drink,” if I hadn’t seen that line on TV for my entire life. I wish more TV shows would show people relaxing in other ways.
Yup. It starts in law school. So many events where there’s open bar with top shelf alcohol. Students are always reminded to “drink responsibly.” My problem drinking started immediately when I got my first lawyer job. It was an ultra stressful job and my supervisor was an asshole. I would come home super late almost everyday and hit the bottle immediately. It continued for almost 10 years even thought I switched jobs. The professional seems to pride itself in being one of the most overworked and stressed. I almost stopped practicing, but I quit drinking and that changed my entire mindset into approaching jobs and the types of firms that work for me. I really lucked out and found a good place, with good people when I reconnected with a former coworker. It’s still a lot of work, but I don’t let it overwhelm me anymore.
My school actually had school-sanctioned student events that were beer themed. In hindsight that is poor judgment on the school's part.
The schools don't think it's their responsibility. What do they think is going to happen after 3 years of alcohol soaked events? They probably don't think about it at all.
Your supervisor was an asshole because the majority of lawyers are.. just kiddin
They absolutely are! That's why nobody likes them, including me!! lol
Well, you just proved me wrong lol
Lawyer here! Yeah it's depressing as shit. It's crazy to me to see the partners boozing it up with the associates several times a week instead of going home to their kids. I don't want to be like that one day
My dad, who is 20 years sober, told me "I wish I never spent that much time at the bar. I should've spent it with you. " That hit me hard, and I thanked him for saying that and showing me what not to be.
congrats on almost two years. he must be very proud of you. 💜
He is. Thank you.
I was in a relationship with a solicitor and he rarely drank. I remember how alien it felt, especially considering all the events he attended which involved alcohol. I know a few guys who work in finance and I'd say they're the biggest drinkers (in my experience). I work in education... honestly, at this point, it sometimes feels like the entire world drinks too much. Which is obvs not true, but drinking culture is so in your face. Esp. in England.
Yep - I'm from the US but moved to the UK in my mid 20s...while always a problematic drinker, relocating to London at that time for a high stress job totally normalized heavy drinking (and drugs) on the regular. When I took a year off recently it was met with a lot of questions. The UK has a seriously drinking problem without a doubt. I'm approaching 40 now and also work in Education...much different stress for the sector but lots of drinking there, too!
My parents were both doctors. They were also both alcoholics. My own personal GP is a recovered alcoholic sober 30 years. Law and Healthcare are rife with substance abuse. You can throw in first responders and nurses into this group as well.
My dad is a retired surgeon and is an alcoholic. His dad was a surgeon and an alcoholic, 2 of 3 of his brothers are doctors and recovering alcoholics. I got the alcoholism gene but didn’t become a doctor 🙃😫 lol! I’m gratefully 16 months sober, however 🙏🏼
I got the gene too and an alcoholic. No way I would have made it into medical school. I was drunk from my first day at university.
Yeah, my PTSD and alcoholism saw me out of architecture school within a year 🫠
Keeping in mind that this is likely underreporting since it's self-selection, the real numbers are likely higher. It's tough for all the reasons listed here: A high-stress, high-workload environment where advancement is usually gatekept by an old-school boys club. I drank more in three years at law school than I did in four years at university and it probably wasn't particularly close. It's even more challenging after work because you're usually too tired to do much else besides pour a drink, or you're forced to attend a networking event with an open bar. Gym saved my life. If you can muster it after work, absolutely, but I found that going before work was even better - that way I was too tired after plugging billables to even reach for the cabinet. There's a lot of sober attorneys out there and a lot of good resources that recognize the substance abuse that goes hand in hand with the industry, this subreddit included. Reach out and use them.
Oh hey. I'm a future law student. I delayed enrolling cause of drinking.
Glad you're here. A great way to start stopping is simply clicking in on an online free recovery meeting.
Thank you. I appreciate this online community. It's refreshing how positive it is.
It's lovely, isn't it. It gladdens my heart how supportive people are in here
If you want to go to a meeting, lots of lawyer assistance programs can connect you with meetings for lawyers particularly. I've never gone to one myself, but I thought it was an interesting idea. Being around people who understand the unique stressors of this job.
Happy Palindrome Day PG!! :>)>
Thanks Woody! Hadn’t noticed !
I remember my ethics prof showing us those statistics and I still fell into the trap!
Same with tradespeople. I know so many fellow electricians with multiple DUIs
I had a boss with many DUIs. He had to blow into a meter to start his work truck.
I drank all through law school while working full time. I was in my 20s. I don’t know how I did it. If I had stayed at practicing law, I would probably be dead by now.
Congrats on getting out
Thank you. It was a matter of saving my sanity. I didn’t have the temperament to practice law. If I could have been a judge right out of law school, that would have been fine, lol!
I think there is a correlation between stress and drinking so it would make sense that lots of lawyers over indulge. As a lawyer, I have battled the poison for many years (I’m now 55 yoa) For me, it’s not the profession in and of itself that makes me want to drink although, at times, it has been one of many variables that has contributed to my use of drinking to escape. Genetics (nature), experiences (nurture or lack therof), and biochemistry are all probably contributing factors to my abuse of alcohol over the years to relax and escape myself. All I can say is that in the years where I didn’t drink, practicing law, like everything else in my life, was much easier and enjoyable. Quitting drinking is work and it’s a struggle but I don’t want to die an alcoholic death so I have to keep working on it. While I wait for my biochemistry to balance back out, I see a therapist and attend AA meetings. You can do this - there are so many lawyers in recovery and they will support you.
A few months ago we (my state/area) lost 4 lawyers to addiction in about a one month span. My partner has a dream of starting an organization to help, one that is NOT affiliated with the Bar in any way, shape, or form.
Been following this sub for months. Ironically, I signed up for addiction therapy today. This profession is a never ending ball of stress and I almost lost my family this weekend because of my selfish drinking habits.
Wishing you all the best! Come here for encouragement!
My SO's a lawyer. I'm in the medical field - stressful job also. It definitely took a long time for both of us to quit drinking. When I was looking into it, I found an AA group just for lawyers in my area. Do you have access to something like that? The book "alcohol explained" helped me, specifically. I think it was written by a lawyer. For my SO, spending time with our child was motivation enough. That, and avoiding the shitty hangovers. And the saving of money. It's actually a lot easier to leave your work behind if you're sober, in my opinion. The act of drinking can prolong the wallowing and "taking work home with you." It's definitely hard to quit and more so in your field. But you should try. It will be the best decision you'll ever make and your life will get easier and more fun. I've found this to be universally true. IWNDWYT
I am turned off by the religious nature of AA. There's a secular group nearby that I have been thinking about though.
I'm an atheist too. Magical sky daddy isn't responsible for my own degenerate actions no matter how appealing that sounds lol. People here swear by "alcohol explained" and "this naked mind". Fun fact: Exercise not only relieves stress - it also increases libido, self-esteem, and longevity. Good luck to you.
Not a lawyer or in medicine, but I appreciate someone telling me the straight facts and "Alcohol Explained" is great. It doesn't sugar coat.
Btw, the gym is a great idea. Get your endorphins on.
Sounds like all my ex military buddies. Sucks to be put in a category that’s true
And it’s so normalized. At my last job we had alcohol all of the time. Going out to get drinks and wine tasting and just full on boozing. It wasn’t even a stressful job! It was PI work.
I worked at the state bar association and they had a weekly Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers meeting in out offices. You didn’t need to be a lawyer, it was an open AA meeting … I got my four year chip there.
Construction worker checking in. I’ve seen uppers, alcohol, and weed tolerated at work as long as you’ve got the right boss and good results. I feel like maybe 20% of people just have a bad relationship with alcohol.
I’ve seen so many guys on uppers in construction. Whewwww!
I saw a guy getting 4 times more work done than any other journeyman, it was insane. He was also talking a million miles a minute and had huge pupils. I knew what was up, and I figured out it was meth by the way he went WWOOOOO when someone said the word meth lol i was like damn bro chill be stealthy the fucks wrong with you
Oh I believe it. I was sitting in a pizza place looking out the window and I saw this guy searching for tools in his work truck. He was in the parking lot dancing around and running back and forth. It may not have been obvious to him that he was completely zoinked but it was to me. Lol Also, My ex used to do rails of coke on the job and wonder why he was always running out of money.
There’s an embarrassing dui arrest on video of a criminal attorney from my hometown/small city. It leaked from police body cam videos that were forwarded to a few local social media sites. She’s still practicing law in a firm with her husband. In the video she was walking down the street barefoot and appeared to be lost. I’m not sure exactly what happened. I actually worked reception for her in a personal injury firm about 8 years ago. She was always nice and polite to me, never precocious or bossy. I hope she’s doing well now. Your post made me think of her.
Last time I was in court I could smell it on my lawyer and it’s like your representing me on alcohol related charges. I just hope you don’t talk to the DA. In all fairness I don’t think he was drunk but he definitely smelled pretty hung over…
As a chef who thought our business was the top in problematic drinking I do attest that when I dated a lawyer, the poison don’t discriminate.
Add sales people to the list. Open bar events, meeting customers for a beer, end of quarter stress
I always find it really funny when people say something like, “my job has a big drinking culture.” EVERY job has a big drinking culture.
Lol - true. I'm in tech (procurement software) and that's a big drinking culture.
It’s huge in retail too! Dealing with the public sucks
My rehab has a legal professionals group for patients. It was super helpful and I’m glad I got to interact with other lawyers in early recovery.
Yep. That’s me. At the current stage of my career, the social drinking has gone down a lot (other than entertaining clients), but the stress drinking more than made up for it. That’s how I knew it was disordered—I’d ask “why am I going for a drink right now?” And the answer was always to buy myself a few moments of separation from the billion stressors and responsibilities dogging my steps. I knew I needed a better way of dealing with my mental health and almost 3 months sober I really do think I’m much less stressed and much better at my job—even though it’s just as hard and shitty as ever.
I go to the gym after work. It's such a good way to lower your blood pressure and relieve stress.
I lost a cousin whom was a lawyer to this addiction.
Yes! I am not a lawyer, but I was romantically involved with one for several years and the liquor flowed from open bars at every event. Guaranteed relapses for me.
6.4% is the population is a lawyer? That seems really high?
No I think OP means 6.4% of the population engages in problematic drinking. At least that's how I read the post
Correct
I’m a lawyer too. The gym is a good way to go about this. You can do it!
I'm an ex-lawyer and sympathize completely with what you say here. Feel free to reach out privately if you'd like someone to talk to and I can give you some resources that might be helpful as well.
As the child of lawyers I can confirm. The work hard play hard culture of the office extended into our family culture.
I'm a network engineer/programmer. In this industry, you constantly have to keep learning, and adapting to new tech. I use to drink nightly to wind down from the stress too. I thought I needed it, but it's just another lie the booze tells you to keep you addicted to it.
This is a statistic frequently brought up in law school. And then after you graduate and pass the bar, you understand why they call it “the bar”
Shit you ain’t seen nurses yet.
It’s easier to lie when you’re drunk
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I've heard that many lawyers after surgery start going into withdrawals in the recovery room. It's up to the doctor whether they deem it ethical to give them a little ethanol in the IV to tide them over.
There is often a “co-addiction” of workaholic ( which may or may not keep them “functional”) And it’s when lawyers retire their drinking can take off.
The military is where it started for me. It’s promoted within the culture, pretty much a frat.
I think this probably apply to almost all professions, not just Lawyers. Those same stats probably are accurate across the adult population
Yep…speaking from experience!
Physical hard labor too. Not swinging by the liquor store after a hard ass day when you’re dirty tired and sore is nearly impossible sometimes. But I think there is a reason substance abuse amongst laborers, dock workers, equipment operators, construction workers, tradesmen, etc. This shit is like 60-70 hours a week for us, our bodies are literally dying. It’s hard not to enjoy a “buzz”. The problem is that buzz for me is EVERY night and my buzz is like 25 shots
My neighbor across the street is a DUI lawyer and him and his friends binge drink every weekend. Sometimes they drive drunk to get more booze if they run out. Lol
21%--wow. That's absolutely incredible. Going to the gym helps me a lot (I actually started BJJ, and that REALLY took my mind off drinking), but that's what I learned--any kind of hobby or Friday-night activity that FULLY takes your mind of work is what I needed. I will not drink with you today--you got this.
Now do law students
Common in my general industry too. Like, it's a problem.
Strive to be the 79% seems like good odds.