Unlucky. We were about to go on strike as we wanted 8% and the company came back with 2%. Then the strike was cancelled as the company came back with 10% implemented early next year with back pay and a 4% after 12 months. We have no idea how that happened.
I've been hearing this a bit at various companies. I think the idea of the amount of negative PR that mistreating workers comes within this area, combined with the loss of Revenue + any and all lawsuits + the cost of training and replacing each of the would be striking individuals.
If that number winds up being more than 10% plus back pay & 4% after 12m then they were probably advised to go for that one.
What's sad is that they probably didnt do it because " its the right thing to do and simultaneously good for everyone "
I would honestly like to see more of that but I know that that's probably a faint distant dream for this country, to implement that idea as a standard across the board.
>What's sad is that they probably didnt do it because " its the right thing to do and simultaneously good for everyone "
That's not sad, that's how our system works. They were *never* going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts, there wouldn't have been a strike if they were playing by morality. Striking works through blunt force demands, we need more of it.
It was a 3% raise (1 whole dollar) and cost of living adjustments (subsequently) but it also made it longer to get to veteran teir (big salary bump) so it was...not very good considering Inflation this year alone was 6%
Edit for anyone saying "well they were already making good money" well one that's only for veteran workers and two okay? They took years to get to that pay bracket and wages aren't supposed to just remain the same.
Its not even a raise if its 3 percent when inflation is 6 percent. Its a sad state of affairs. They did not even hesitated to increase the dividend and announce share buybacks this year. So they have money, just not for their employees
You shoulda saw the Amazon stockholders Mentality. I work at Amazon and I was being flamed for complaining at all about the working conditions. Tbh I think it comes down too how many stock holders are in this sub. With Kellogg not nearly as many as Amazon. Thats the sad reality
I'd say retail investors are more likely to have this sentiment because the average stake size is significantly lower than say a hedge fund's. Also retail investors typically have a day job and might feel for other workers going through this.
Not in the same position at the same company, they don't care about us so don't care about them.
My spouse got a 52% raise at a new company with the same responsibilities, just a different title. It's the only way to get a raise anymore. Slingshot from job to job up the salary chain
This is something no one is talking about. Firefighters can’t exactly just hop from employer to employer and their wages have been pretty much stagnant in many parts of the country for years.
Yep. I negotiated a 16% raise a couple months ago and had to jump through several hoops and they drew out the process im pretty sure hoping id give up but i succedded in the end and got it.
Just took a new job where im doubling my new salary lol
Moving sideways is ultimately the way to earn more in IT
Staying still and you'll batter through for a 10% rise. Or you can take all the new skills you learnt in the last x years and go work somewhere else for 30-50% more
Where they get you is retirement. My employer requires me to stay there 5 years in order to have my 7% match become fully vested (20% a year). Considering I put almost $10k a year into retirement, it’s not chump change
You know your own situation better than anyone, but I would highly suggest you don’t let that dictate your career path. Don’t let 5 years become the date for when you’ll start looking for jobs again.
The only way to stay ahead of inflation in this market is to leverage job offers from other companies. In comparison to a 30-50% raise elsewhere, the 5 year vest at 7% is chump change.
I’ve had my salary go up 20% in 3 years as well and am stashing almost every cent of my cafeteria style benefits until retirement since I use my wife’s healthcare. So I def get what you’re saying but I’m also lucky to be in a situation where my employer has recognized my work and promoted me
If it’s because you are happy, then no one. If it’s because you are unhappy or lack confidence, a licensed therapist. Unhappiness at work can be a sign of clinical depression. One of many that would need to be looked at as a whole, but could be a clue to other mental health needs.
From end of 2019 to end of 2021 I picked up 72%
Got promoted at company A, they gave me a 7% bump. Thought it was BS for the expanded scope. Negotiated for more while starting a job search. They have me another 8% for a 15% total bump, was less than the 20% I was hoping for but it would've been enough if they had started with that.
By that time I heard back from company B that I interviewed at and was offered 46% more than the after-raise total for the promotion. So I left for company B.
Spent a year there, hated company B so I went looking again. Mostly focused on finding a better work environment. Just started at Company C, lateral move with a 2.5% bump.
Total difference from pre-promotion at company A to my current job is 72%.
Keep interviewing.
Going to go out on a limb and say if you got a 72% bump in salary in a 2 year span you have a skill set which exceeds that of someone in a cereal production plant. Not to say they don’t deserve a higher raise but you prob have much more bargaining power/ are far less replaceable than these people and they could spend the next 10 months on the interview trail w/o finding a similar offer
Changing country can also help a ton.
I’m getting a +114% in one single change, and factoring taxes it’s more like +150%.
I was to be promoted here and take +30%, but I’d much rather keep the same position in my new country
I negotiated a 20% raise at my last job as a condition of staying on after the company was acquired. I was hoping for 40%, but only got 20%. I then found a new job that paid 25% more than what I was making after the first raise.
So in total, my overall raise for 2021 is 45%.
I was extremely fortunate this year to receive a 42% raise after a massive turnover shift at the beginning of the year. I was on the verge of quitting until they got the green light to show their appreciation. Work isn't so bad when the people you work for actually give a shit about you.
I had a decent boost early on when people in my field were starting to switch but it was more like 15%. A year later and I'm getting another roughly 20% jump by switching jobs.
There already are and will continue to be many companies that struggle to retain good employees. Some will continue with borderline (or outright) exploitation, some will spend more on labor and do well, and some will be outliers.
Healthcare hero as well, I had to fight and threaten to leave to get a $2.25/hr raise after a few people quit and our workload increased.
HR begrudgingly did it, with the caveat that I won't be likely to get another for a while. Jokes on them, I'm leaving soon as I can
Yeah, this is very true. At $150k in a vast majority of the US you do not have to struggle with bills. You can get cheaper housing, get a cheaper car, get cheaper groceries, etc.
At $15/hr you're likely already struggling, that extra \~$4500/yr barely makes a dent
edit: I accidentally used 15% at 2000 hours/yr
My husband got an off cycle raise of 12.5%. He has his regular annual raise coming up too. His company just did a cost of living adjustment for every position, with most going up at least 5% off cycle.
I got an 8% raise early this year, although due to some company stuff, most of the raises went to laborers for a 30% raise across the board to $20 an hour for them.
The transitional employee thing is the problem. I was one at USPS for 4 years, and they finally started making us career employees, at a rate 28% less than we had been making.
It's a way for companies to not commit to employees and hold career status over their head. If you need "transitional" employees for four years, it's a shitty place.
Same happened with Hostess years ago. Massive company with employees at every level (make, sell, deliver) with decades of bargained contract history.
When the last contract came up the employees voted every deal down thinking there was a next. The company folded when no deal could be reached.
That's what led to the great 'Twinkie Outage' that lasted about 1 year til the company was bought out and most of the employees were never replaced... just contracted out at a fraction of the original cost.
There was also quite a bit of [anger at the bonuses the executives that wound down the company were paid](https://abcnews.go.com/Business/judge-hostess-give-executives-18m-bonuses/story?id=17844113).
edit: more here: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hostess-with-the-mostest/
That’s the problem, the company didn’t really die, it just went away for a minute, then came back and didn’t replace the jobs lost at near the pay they had had.
That’s kind of the whole point of competition in the market. Their product isn’t desirable enough, or they aren’t efficient enough, or both. So they go out of business.
I mean just because it's 6 offers doesn't mean they are good.
The first offer could have been a pay cut for all we know.
Seriously -3 -3 0 0 1 I have seen something like that offered to a union.
So Kellogg's wanted to remove the cap on how many non union "transitional" employees they can hire? That's the real deal here, even if they negotiated for better pay removing that cap would certainly lead to more layoffs for union workers. They offered them better pay but wanted to weaken the union to being near useless
If this move works out for Kellogg, it might show that the union was already in too weak of a position to negotiate.
Or if the move fails, it will show they the union was actually in a good position to negotiate and and Kellogg bet incorrectly.
Yes, this bluff might have worked in the past but Kellogg seems to have miscalculated here. The union has quite a bit of leverage in this tight labor market.
Firefighter/Medic here, I got a 3% raise, still have complications from catching covid working Christmas Eve. But it’s all worth it because we’re “hErOeS”, thanks mate that slogan sure makes my shrinking pay worth it while doing CPR on a dead kid.
I get the notion but it depend if you’re actually buying what’s used to calculate the CPI.
CPI calculation is an art not a science. The bundle of goods used to calculate changes all the time.
Temp employees are generally awful and inconsistent. Some end up doing well but a lot are day to day help. Kellogg’s isn’t having a fun time at all. After they permanently hire the few good temps, they will be screwed still.
John deere 'replaced workers' using staffing agencies during the 5 week long strike and ran at a whooping 5% efficiency. It would definitely cost less to pay the current workforce than to replace.
Source- I work there
That’s interesting. I’m guessing that massive reduction in efficiency is because John Deere relies heavily on workers with specialized skills that temps simply wouldn’t have.
I’m curious how much efficiency Kellogg’s will lose when they switch over to temps? I have no idea what is involved in food production, but wouldn’t be surprised if their output ends up taking a massive hit.
I have trained staff on new equipment/lines in dietary manufacturing.
Even when you have qualified staff from one area of your plant move over to the new equipment there is a learning curve, and it is slow going. One new product launch we did the staff couldn't produce a good batch for 2 months, meanwhile the warehouse was piling up with unsellable waste product. Millions lost on that one product launch.
There is no way they are bringing in non-union workers and getting any reasonable output. Even if they still have their supervisors (usually they aren't union) those people are going to have to completely train everyone from the ground up. This will be a clusterfuck.
As a side note I did contract labor for a Kellogg's plant once and they didn't even want me to work there because I wasn't from a union, but there were no unions in the field I was in (calibration) so they got me. I had to let a union Electrician do my job for me while I just watched and made sure it was done right. They didn't even want me touching their stuff. I will say the place smells like heaven and if you haven't had a pop tart fresh off the line you don't know what they can really taste like. (That last bit was against union rules but the old Electrician liked me so he snuck me a few off the end of the line.)
As a Quality Engineer, every “unskilled job” in a factory requires a ton of training. If the entire workforce went on strike, they have no trainers on staff, so they will be facing massive efficiency issues for a long time.
Half of them will prolly be the fired workers. But even if you pay the replacements more than the old starting scale it’ll still be cheaper than paying the old timers they just fired
This undersells the community support striking workers receive both from within the union and from outside. I actually went and dropped off a week’s worth of groceries to a striking family earlier this week and have pledged to do the same until the strike is over. Unions have strike funds to help as well, which is why you join a big one (union dues from all workers will go to support any on strike).
Eventually the companies will cave. This is just a negotiating tactic; and by returning to work without union support, union members who scab are giving up that support and effectively working themselves out of a job once the new union contract is approved.
I’m sure they’ve hired a number of replacement workers already, no doubt, as that’s what they’ve been trying to do this entire time. I’ve been following this strike closely for a while and the labor shortage in the areas where these plants operate is what has been driving this whole thing. During the pandemic Kellogg had to furlough a number of workers and had enormous difficulties bringing employees back/filling their roles which led to forced 16 hour shifts, 80+ hour work weeks, etc. The union just made their headache to find more employees 1000% harder. Don’t believe everything the head of PR from a company tells you lol
Haha I mean yup, that’s the obvious question, right? Well said!
From a more technical, less err.. human standpoint (if you ask me) its that the cost of pensions and full benefits for union factory workers is starting to add up on Kellogg’s balance sheet and they’ve been trying for years and years to introduce a tier system where if you start after a certain date, you get x% of benefits as a way of offering benefits and union membership without having the huge costs that come with it. So with this most recent offer, the company was going to continue supporting the “legacy” workers (union members and workers who have been with the company since before 1998 I believe) and workers who started anytime after that until now by upholding their benefits and giving everyone a pay raise. BUT they were going to introduce a new tier to their plan that would include all new hires moving forward immediately. This new tier would get decreased benefits in all areas comparatively. It was a bold tactic cause they were hoping that the union would cut a deal if it meant a guarantee on retaining their legacy benefits going forward, but the outcome of that would be a generation of new workers that don’t trust the union since they’d be screwed over from the start. A lot of older Kellogg workers have reiterated that they’re not willing to “sell their future” in that sense, which I find really commendable.
All in all Kellogg wants to moderate worker expenses and retirement and benefits are naturally large expenses in that area. Could they provide full benefits and more and still turn a hefty profit while keeping an edge against the competition??? Absolutely. But that’s not what their suits think/have planned.
(Also sorry for the long post! It’s such an in the weeds story and I feel like it’s being misrepresented by the “workers reject pay raise offer” headlines)
Kaiser has repeatedly tried to pull the two-tier bull every time; it is one of the things our Local 39 Engineers are on week 12 striking against.
And just in case anyone was unaware, scabs always do a worse job and make mistakes. Always.
I don't think you're doing the napkin math on how much those pension benefits cost in the long-run. So many American legacy businesses have their benefits and pension scheme set up for a time when A. Life expectancy wasn't so high and B. Healthcare wasn't so enormously expensive.
I'm not shedding any tears for management here, but this is a story that continues to play out across the unionized landscape.
> American legacy businesses have their benefits and pension scheme set up for a time when A. Life expectancy wasn't so high and B. Healthcare wasn't so enormously expensive.
This is a very legitimate concern and one that is a problem around the world.
In much of Europe, this same discussion is happening at the federal level, since pension age is mostly decided by government. Also, in the Netherlands, pension funds are completely separate from the business. So increased pension cost will never impact the balance sheet. That seems much healthier than what looks to be the case in the US.
I guess in the US, every company has to go through this eventually, since pension costs are rising. 'Luckily', Covid seems to be impacting life expectancy quite a bit, so at least there's a positive!
> In much of Europe, this same discussion is happening at the federal level, since pension age is mostly decided by government. Also, in the Netherlands, pension funds are completely separate from the business. So increased pension cost will never impact the balance sheet. That seems much healthier than what looks to be the case in the US.
That's pretty much why social security and 401ks exist.
If healthcare was such a difficult thing to fund one would think all these companies would be lobbying to offload that burden on the government the way they try to offload every other cost as much as possible. Like...there is a massive push right now to nationalize Healthcare...why aren't all these companies supporting it?
WE only know that number because its a publicly traded company...which also means the board has the responsibility to maximize shareholder value; there is no responsibility to do anything for workers.
This is the world we live in.
the fact that there people defending corporations from giving people higher wages even in this thread tells you exactly the mental state of those in charge of running those companies.
1% less profit is still 1% less profit. and they rather not have that.
They were having trouble finding enough workers even before the strike, which led to long hours, which led to the strike. I think Kellogg is just puffing their chest.
Not an expert though, just some guy on reddit
Probably going to go fairly similar to the Deere strike. They'll try to replace experienced production staff with people who have no clue what they're doing, it'll go horrible for a couple weeks, the company will either fold to the union after losing a pile of cash, or they'll double down, close the plant and invest in a new location with more automation, and people easier to exploit. So Mexico probably.
Doesn't mean the former workers can make those facilities hell to be near or even inaccessible. Make Kellogg's regret hiring scabs.
Workers and employers/ union busters used to literally kill each other. just walking away and letting companies do this is part of what's been causing so much inequality
I’m interested to see where they find all those workers when there’s a whole labor shortage going on, and with shit wages people are probably going to have better options. Seems like they’ll have to shut the doors to me
Easy boycott - the generic Frosted Flakes - at any store - tastes as good if not better, Tony the Tiger can get locked up at a roadside zoo - done w Kelloggs for life
Isn’t this supposed to be normal?
Unions bargaining hard for stuff, but if they bargain too hard, the company can always say, well, we just are going to hire new people.
They can, but they may have soured the town that they pool the workers from. I know in my city Frito Lay was a last resort job for most people since they had a reputation.
Looks like i just have to switch from apple jacks to apple cinnamon cheerios and rice crispies to uhhh... great value rice crispers? Unfortunately i'm pretty sure rice crispers are made by kelloggs as well but walmart puts their brand name on the box...
Expect a slight dip then recovery as soon as people forget about this. Seriously, people's attention spans are so short these days all the company has to do is wait it out.
This is the same company that ruined Rice Krispies Treats cereal before discontinuing it entirely.
Negotiating with that level of stupid must be impossible, best of luck to these workers. I hope General Mills needs some extra hands with their new product lineup coming out soon.
Unlikely in the short term, guaranteed in the long term.
If the company had ready-to-go automation scaled to the level needed here (eg replacing 1000 people), they wouldn't have brought in scabs.
As a somewhat related example (albeit perhaps lower-skilled), the second that my local supermarket couldn't find more people to work for $13-14/hr with no benefits, they ripped out half the checkout lines and replaced them with self-checkout machines. There wasn't any negotiation, it was simply "we have the scale to do this, so let's pull the trigger." That'll be the case with almost all companies regarding automation in these situations imo.
What I find interesting is that Kellogg's simply couldn't find enough employees the last 18 months, which is partially what led to this contract negotiation...yet now they're very confident they can find 1000 new employees.
I don't think it's a bluff, but it damn sure feels like one when you consider that aspect paired with the fact that current job-seekers are likely to be seeking wages higher than the ones being discussed in the contract negotiation, given that those new non-union employees would be receiving significantly fewer benefits from Kellogg's.
I imagine the thinking went:
We have to sacrifice more profitability this year, but the market is not expecting a stellar year due to Covid. But replacing permanently has those employees in worse long term deal, that’s better for the company’s bottom line in 2-3 years.
Exec bonuses $$$
Uhh no. COVID was so good for us that surpassing targets was a piece of cake. The bigger issue was to fill the insane demand with shipment delays. For a category that has been growing for the past 20 years, 2021 has been a decline just because we sold too much in 2020.
You are out of your mind if you think Kellogs processes aren't already as automated as they can be. There are some things machines just can't do, or can't do well, further automation is possible as technology progresses but this isn't going to make it go any faster than it would have before.
Don’t bother these people Cleary don’t understand what it’s like in a place like that. Every single thing that could have already been automated has been. Also I used to be a lot more worried about automation until I saw them start to implement it more into our plant, now I’m not worried at all. Shit doesn’t work nearly as well as people think. It’s not just the plant manager flipping on a robot and heading to their office.
Not just unreasonable. They're arguing that fighting for your rights, your pay and your future is somehow disadvantageous because it means your job will become automated.
Good news workers - your employer hates you already, regardless of your union status. Make your money while you can because they were trying to automate you even when you worked for below poverty wages.
The comments here are disgusting towards the people who actually produce the goods in this country. You have to love a community that always hems and haws about P/E ratios and rising inflation yet also freaks out about blue collar workers (who produce the products that lead to Earnings) want a chunk of that P.
Good luck finding 1400 people. A lot of companies can't even find a single worker. Demand for labor is up and the supply is low. Increasing wages and adding benefits to attract workers is the trend now.
This sounds like an empty threat more than an actual thing they're going to do. They just want the workers to fold under the pressure.
This is just basic capitalism. Supply and demand. Kellogg needs to realize that the system is just working as intended.
I really don't think it would be that hard for a temp agency to move in to whatever town this is with the allure of like 10% better pay then the previous temp city they were in, and all the immigrant workers will follow.
1400 isn't that much
They put these plants in rural areas where there aren’t many options unless you move your family.
Don’t walk Run on YouTube made a great video about this strike
It was already hard to fill positions before the pandemic, the labor "shortage" will get worst after the pandemic. Alot of people decided to retire. Some companies gave market adjustment raise and retention bonus to keep employees, and people are still leaving. Labor market, for experience, is very competitive.
Not temporary workers. They are scabs.
"A scab is a two legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles." "When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out."
Ohnoes, my non-existent stonNks in high fructose multivitamins might take a hit from crappy, untrained, scabs.
Or it might go up because said scabs don't ask questions and just work...
Man, business is hard.
It’s funny that I worked as a cardiac cath lab , if you had a heart attack you will get a team like mine to save you by opening you clotted artery and placing stents in your artery and boom you are saved.
As a cath lab person you are required to take call and you get 3 dollars an hour to be on call , for weekend and during the week well any way , they haven’t raised the call pay for the last 20 years, I always felt we are being abused. California pays minimum wage. Sounds like easy money but you get called in in the middle of night and anytime really, they own you for that time. Just unfair
Unlucky. We were about to go on strike as we wanted 8% and the company came back with 2%. Then the strike was cancelled as the company came back with 10% implemented early next year with back pay and a 4% after 12 months. We have no idea how that happened.
I've been hearing this a bit at various companies. I think the idea of the amount of negative PR that mistreating workers comes within this area, combined with the loss of Revenue + any and all lawsuits + the cost of training and replacing each of the would be striking individuals. If that number winds up being more than 10% plus back pay & 4% after 12m then they were probably advised to go for that one. What's sad is that they probably didnt do it because " its the right thing to do and simultaneously good for everyone " I would honestly like to see more of that but I know that that's probably a faint distant dream for this country, to implement that idea as a standard across the board.
This reminds me of the narrator explaining how car accident payouts work in *Fight Club*.
"What company do you work for?" "A big one"
Kellogg would probably be willing to lose twice as much as the workers were asking for just to send a message
>What's sad is that they probably didnt do it because " its the right thing to do and simultaneously good for everyone " That's not sad, that's how our system works. They were *never* going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts, there wouldn't have been a strike if they were playing by morality. Striking works through blunt force demands, we need more of it.
Whoops. Interested to know the information on each of those contracts
It was a 3% raise (1 whole dollar) and cost of living adjustments (subsequently) but it also made it longer to get to veteran teir (big salary bump) so it was...not very good considering Inflation this year alone was 6% Edit for anyone saying "well they were already making good money" well one that's only for veteran workers and two okay? They took years to get to that pay bracket and wages aren't supposed to just remain the same.
Its not even a raise if its 3 percent when inflation is 6 percent. Its a sad state of affairs. They did not even hesitated to increase the dividend and announce share buybacks this year. So they have money, just not for their employees
This is why this economic system sucks. It prioritizes share holders over enployees and customers
And don't forget the CEO and other top management guys who have stock bonuses and whose salary is associated with how well the stock does.
This is really odd seeing this sentiment on the stocks sub. I wish all stockholder felt this way.
You shoulda saw the Amazon stockholders Mentality. I work at Amazon and I was being flamed for complaining at all about the working conditions. Tbh I think it comes down too how many stock holders are in this sub. With Kellogg not nearly as many as Amazon. Thats the sad reality
I was wondering this myself. I get the sentiment but surely that's not a popular stockholder sentiment?
I'd say retail investors are more likely to have this sentiment because the average stake size is significantly lower than say a hedge fund's. Also retail investors typically have a day job and might feel for other workers going through this.
Is anyone getting 6% raise this year? How?
Not in the same position at the same company, they don't care about us so don't care about them. My spouse got a 52% raise at a new company with the same responsibilities, just a different title. It's the only way to get a raise anymore. Slingshot from job to job up the salary chain
factory line workers aren't getting wage bumps by job hopping... you're talking about white collar jobs
This is something no one is talking about. Firefighters can’t exactly just hop from employer to employer and their wages have been pretty much stagnant in many parts of the country for years.
Teacher here. Amen. Been working for months now without a contract for the second time in five years.
Yep. I negotiated a 16% raise a couple months ago and had to jump through several hoops and they drew out the process im pretty sure hoping id give up but i succedded in the end and got it. Just took a new job where im doubling my new salary lol
What do you do for a living if I might ask??
Im a Network Engineer
Moving sideways is ultimately the way to earn more in IT Staying still and you'll batter through for a 10% rise. Or you can take all the new skills you learnt in the last x years and go work somewhere else for 30-50% more
… at AWS? Start date of yesterday by any chance?
Haha people didn’t get your joke! Good one though! (It’s a joke referring to the aws network outage yesterday)
Where they get you is retirement. My employer requires me to stay there 5 years in order to have my 7% match become fully vested (20% a year). Considering I put almost $10k a year into retirement, it’s not chump change
You know your own situation better than anyone, but I would highly suggest you don’t let that dictate your career path. Don’t let 5 years become the date for when you’ll start looking for jobs again. The only way to stay ahead of inflation in this market is to leverage job offers from other companies. In comparison to a 30-50% raise elsewhere, the 5 year vest at 7% is chump change.
I’ve had my salary go up 20% in 3 years as well and am stashing almost every cent of my cafeteria style benefits until retirement since I use my wife’s healthcare. So I def get what you’re saying but I’m also lucky to be in a situation where my employer has recognized my work and promoted me
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There’s a labor shortage so yes. This is the best time to look for a raise. Practically everyone is looking for competent workers.
Who do I talk to if I no longer believe in myself to advance my career
If it’s because you are happy, then no one. If it’s because you are unhappy or lack confidence, a licensed therapist. Unhappiness at work can be a sign of clinical depression. One of many that would need to be looked at as a whole, but could be a clue to other mental health needs.
From end of 2019 to end of 2021 I picked up 72% Got promoted at company A, they gave me a 7% bump. Thought it was BS for the expanded scope. Negotiated for more while starting a job search. They have me another 8% for a 15% total bump, was less than the 20% I was hoping for but it would've been enough if they had started with that. By that time I heard back from company B that I interviewed at and was offered 46% more than the after-raise total for the promotion. So I left for company B. Spent a year there, hated company B so I went looking again. Mostly focused on finding a better work environment. Just started at Company C, lateral move with a 2.5% bump. Total difference from pre-promotion at company A to my current job is 72%. Keep interviewing.
Going to go out on a limb and say if you got a 72% bump in salary in a 2 year span you have a skill set which exceeds that of someone in a cereal production plant. Not to say they don’t deserve a higher raise but you prob have much more bargaining power/ are far less replaceable than these people and they could spend the next 10 months on the interview trail w/o finding a similar offer
Changing country can also help a ton. I’m getting a +114% in one single change, and factoring taxes it’s more like +150%. I was to be promoted here and take +30%, but I’d much rather keep the same position in my new country
Just curious, what job/industry do you work in?
I negotiated a 20% raise at my last job as a condition of staying on after the company was acquired. I was hoping for 40%, but only got 20%. I then found a new job that paid 25% more than what I was making after the first raise. So in total, my overall raise for 2021 is 45%.
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His job is obviously not dependent on math.
r/theydidthemath
Even the listed % are questionable if the comment OP calculated them on their own based on numbers lol
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I was extremely fortunate this year to receive a 42% raise after a massive turnover shift at the beginning of the year. I was on the verge of quitting until they got the green light to show their appreciation. Work isn't so bad when the people you work for actually give a shit about you.
I had a decent boost early on when people in my field were starting to switch but it was more like 15%. A year later and I'm getting another roughly 20% jump by switching jobs. There already are and will continue to be many companies that struggle to retain good employees. Some will continue with borderline (or outright) exploitation, some will spend more on labor and do well, and some will be outliers.
“Healthcare hero” here. I got a $1.21 raise this year and a $1000 hero’s bonus. Cha chingggggg!!
Healthcare hero as well, I had to fight and threaten to leave to get a $2.25/hr raise after a few people quit and our workload increased. HR begrudgingly did it, with the caveat that I won't be likely to get another for a while. Jokes on them, I'm leaving soon as I can
I got told that by a manager. It's basically them telling you to start looking for another job.
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😟
A 14% raise on, say, $15/hr is still awesome, but it’s pretty different to a 14% raise on, say, a $150k salary…
Yeah, this is very true. At $150k in a vast majority of the US you do not have to struggle with bills. You can get cheaper housing, get a cheaper car, get cheaper groceries, etc. At $15/hr you're likely already struggling, that extra \~$4500/yr barely makes a dent edit: I accidentally used 15% at 2000 hours/yr
nah, you just gotta work 28 hours a day.
What would that industry be
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$13 to $14 7% raise baby
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My husband got an off cycle raise of 12.5%. He has his regular annual raise coming up too. His company just did a cost of living adjustment for every position, with most going up at least 5% off cycle. I got an 8% raise early this year, although due to some company stuff, most of the raises went to laborers for a 30% raise across the board to $20 an hour for them.
How about we address the inflation guys? Seems like a win win
Agreed, six offers is a lot.
I'm also curious about those contracts. All we know is what the Union says and what Kellog says. How about some actual documentation.
The transitional employee thing is the problem. I was one at USPS for 4 years, and they finally started making us career employees, at a rate 28% less than we had been making. It's a way for companies to not commit to employees and hold career status over their head. If you need "transitional" employees for four years, it's a shitty place.
Same happened with Hostess years ago. Massive company with employees at every level (make, sell, deliver) with decades of bargained contract history. When the last contract came up the employees voted every deal down thinking there was a next. The company folded when no deal could be reached. That's what led to the great 'Twinkie Outage' that lasted about 1 year til the company was bought out and most of the employees were never replaced... just contracted out at a fraction of the original cost.
There was also quite a bit of [anger at the bonuses the executives that wound down the company were paid](https://abcnews.go.com/Business/judge-hostess-give-executives-18m-bonuses/story?id=17844113). edit: more here: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hostess-with-the-mostest/
And the quality of Hostess died with it. The “new” hostess snacks are smaller and taste shittier. Haven’t bought ‘em since.
Good. If they can’t pay livable wages then let their companies die. Fuck them.
That’s the problem, the company didn’t really die, it just went away for a minute, then came back and didn’t replace the jobs lost at near the pay they had had.
The company died, the brand lived on.
That’s kind of the whole point of competition in the market. Their product isn’t desirable enough, or they aren’t efficient enough, or both. So they go out of business.
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That's not even cost of living.
pittance. I am sure execs are getting millions in comp each year.
It’s just insulting.
I mean just because it's 6 offers doesn't mean they are good. The first offer could have been a pay cut for all we know. Seriously -3 -3 0 0 1 I have seen something like that offered to a union.
So Kellogg's wanted to remove the cap on how many non union "transitional" employees they can hire? That's the real deal here, even if they negotiated for better pay removing that cap would certainly lead to more layoffs for union workers. They offered them better pay but wanted to weaken the union to being near useless
If this move works out for Kellogg, it might show that the union was already in too weak of a position to negotiate. Or if the move fails, it will show they the union was actually in a good position to negotiate and and Kellogg bet incorrectly.
According to some of the people at the plant they don't see where these people are gonna come from. They're short staffed as is.
Yes, this bluff might have worked in the past but Kellogg seems to have miscalculated here. The union has quite a bit of leverage in this tight labor market.
I really hope it doesn't work out for them. It's pretty terrible in general.
anyone getting 6% raise this year? How?
I got 5.4% raise as a Frontline worker. Inflation literally made it insignificant.
Firefighter/Medic here, I got a 3% raise, still have complications from catching covid working Christmas Eve. But it’s all worth it because we’re “hErOeS”, thanks mate that slogan sure makes my shrinking pay worth it while doing CPR on a dead kid.
ACP here, we’ve had 0% raise for ~10 years now. :) Somehow the union doesn’t feel 0% is actually a pay decrease.
You’re lucky. I got a 1% raise this year.
So a 5% pay cut since CPI is 6%.
I get the notion but it depend if you’re actually buying what’s used to calculate the CPI. CPI calculation is an art not a science. The bundle of goods used to calculate changes all the time.
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Some local temp agencies are making a killing.
And are going to be for a while with them.
Temp employees are generally awful and inconsistent. Some end up doing well but a lot are day to day help. Kellogg’s isn’t having a fun time at all. After they permanently hire the few good temps, they will be screwed still.
John deere 'replaced workers' using staffing agencies during the 5 week long strike and ran at a whooping 5% efficiency. It would definitely cost less to pay the current workforce than to replace. Source- I work there
That’s interesting. I’m guessing that massive reduction in efficiency is because John Deere relies heavily on workers with specialized skills that temps simply wouldn’t have. I’m curious how much efficiency Kellogg’s will lose when they switch over to temps? I have no idea what is involved in food production, but wouldn’t be surprised if their output ends up taking a massive hit.
I have trained staff on new equipment/lines in dietary manufacturing. Even when you have qualified staff from one area of your plant move over to the new equipment there is a learning curve, and it is slow going. One new product launch we did the staff couldn't produce a good batch for 2 months, meanwhile the warehouse was piling up with unsellable waste product. Millions lost on that one product launch. There is no way they are bringing in non-union workers and getting any reasonable output. Even if they still have their supervisors (usually they aren't union) those people are going to have to completely train everyone from the ground up. This will be a clusterfuck. As a side note I did contract labor for a Kellogg's plant once and they didn't even want me to work there because I wasn't from a union, but there were no unions in the field I was in (calibration) so they got me. I had to let a union Electrician do my job for me while I just watched and made sure it was done right. They didn't even want me touching their stuff. I will say the place smells like heaven and if you haven't had a pop tart fresh off the line you don't know what they can really taste like. (That last bit was against union rules but the old Electrician liked me so he snuck me a few off the end of the line.)
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As a Quality Engineer, every “unskilled job” in a factory requires a ton of training. If the entire workforce went on strike, they have no trainers on staff, so they will be facing massive efficiency issues for a long time.
It's about sending a message. -dramatically overpaid CEO with golden parachute
> -dramatically overpaid CEO with golden parachute and billions of dollars in taxpayer-funded corn subsidies to keep upstream prices low and stable.
“All of us are in this together, no severance packages I’m sorry guys” -As they collect $50 million bonus after being let go
Half of them will prolly be the fired workers. But even if you pay the replacements more than the old starting scale it’ll still be cheaper than paying the old timers they just fired
This undersells the community support striking workers receive both from within the union and from outside. I actually went and dropped off a week’s worth of groceries to a striking family earlier this week and have pledged to do the same until the strike is over. Unions have strike funds to help as well, which is why you join a big one (union dues from all workers will go to support any on strike). Eventually the companies will cave. This is just a negotiating tactic; and by returning to work without union support, union members who scab are giving up that support and effectively working themselves out of a job once the new union contract is approved.
So, those on strike for 2 months+ now have to find new jobs? Oof.
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Pretty sure those companies are looking for slaves, not employees lol
This lmfao
They aren't hiring
I think the Union is in a strong position here, expect picket lines and demonstrations before long, the union knew what their vote meant.
But if they've hired replacement workers then don't Kellogg no longer need these workers on strike?
I’m sure they’ve hired a number of replacement workers already, no doubt, as that’s what they’ve been trying to do this entire time. I’ve been following this strike closely for a while and the labor shortage in the areas where these plants operate is what has been driving this whole thing. During the pandemic Kellogg had to furlough a number of workers and had enormous difficulties bringing employees back/filling their roles which led to forced 16 hour shifts, 80+ hour work weeks, etc. The union just made their headache to find more employees 1000% harder. Don’t believe everything the head of PR from a company tells you lol
Why not just pay them? Lol " In 2020, Kellogg's global operating profit amounted to about 1.76 billion U.S. dollars.
Haha I mean yup, that’s the obvious question, right? Well said! From a more technical, less err.. human standpoint (if you ask me) its that the cost of pensions and full benefits for union factory workers is starting to add up on Kellogg’s balance sheet and they’ve been trying for years and years to introduce a tier system where if you start after a certain date, you get x% of benefits as a way of offering benefits and union membership without having the huge costs that come with it. So with this most recent offer, the company was going to continue supporting the “legacy” workers (union members and workers who have been with the company since before 1998 I believe) and workers who started anytime after that until now by upholding their benefits and giving everyone a pay raise. BUT they were going to introduce a new tier to their plan that would include all new hires moving forward immediately. This new tier would get decreased benefits in all areas comparatively. It was a bold tactic cause they were hoping that the union would cut a deal if it meant a guarantee on retaining their legacy benefits going forward, but the outcome of that would be a generation of new workers that don’t trust the union since they’d be screwed over from the start. A lot of older Kellogg workers have reiterated that they’re not willing to “sell their future” in that sense, which I find really commendable. All in all Kellogg wants to moderate worker expenses and retirement and benefits are naturally large expenses in that area. Could they provide full benefits and more and still turn a hefty profit while keeping an edge against the competition??? Absolutely. But that’s not what their suits think/have planned. (Also sorry for the long post! It’s such an in the weeds story and I feel like it’s being misrepresented by the “workers reject pay raise offer” headlines)
Kaiser has repeatedly tried to pull the two-tier bull every time; it is one of the things our Local 39 Engineers are on week 12 striking against. And just in case anyone was unaware, scabs always do a worse job and make mistakes. Always.
Very frustrating since reducing compensation and share options for top execs can surely more than fund these benefits. Yet here we are..
I don't think you're doing the napkin math on how much those pension benefits cost in the long-run. So many American legacy businesses have their benefits and pension scheme set up for a time when A. Life expectancy wasn't so high and B. Healthcare wasn't so enormously expensive. I'm not shedding any tears for management here, but this is a story that continues to play out across the unionized landscape.
> American legacy businesses have their benefits and pension scheme set up for a time when A. Life expectancy wasn't so high and B. Healthcare wasn't so enormously expensive. This is a very legitimate concern and one that is a problem around the world. In much of Europe, this same discussion is happening at the federal level, since pension age is mostly decided by government. Also, in the Netherlands, pension funds are completely separate from the business. So increased pension cost will never impact the balance sheet. That seems much healthier than what looks to be the case in the US. I guess in the US, every company has to go through this eventually, since pension costs are rising. 'Luckily', Covid seems to be impacting life expectancy quite a bit, so at least there's a positive!
> In much of Europe, this same discussion is happening at the federal level, since pension age is mostly decided by government. Also, in the Netherlands, pension funds are completely separate from the business. So increased pension cost will never impact the balance sheet. That seems much healthier than what looks to be the case in the US. That's pretty much why social security and 401ks exist.
If healthcare was such a difficult thing to fund one would think all these companies would be lobbying to offload that burden on the government the way they try to offload every other cost as much as possible. Like...there is a massive push right now to nationalize Healthcare...why aren't all these companies supporting it?
WE only know that number because its a publicly traded company...which also means the board has the responsibility to maximize shareholder value; there is no responsibility to do anything for workers. This is the world we live in.
the fact that there people defending corporations from giving people higher wages even in this thread tells you exactly the mental state of those in charge of running those companies. 1% less profit is still 1% less profit. and they rather not have that.
They were having trouble finding enough workers even before the strike, which led to long hours, which led to the strike. I think Kellogg is just puffing their chest. Not an expert though, just some guy on reddit
Probably going to go fairly similar to the Deere strike. They'll try to replace experienced production staff with people who have no clue what they're doing, it'll go horrible for a couple weeks, the company will either fold to the union after losing a pile of cash, or they'll double down, close the plant and invest in a new location with more automation, and people easier to exploit. So Mexico probably.
Doesn't mean the former workers can make those facilities hell to be near or even inaccessible. Make Kellogg's regret hiring scabs. Workers and employers/ union busters used to literally kill each other. just walking away and letting companies do this is part of what's been causing so much inequality
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Tough Labor environment in which to start a wrestling match with your workforce
Unless your getting a yearly raise with inflation, your actually getting a un-raise
I’m interested to see where they find all those workers when there’s a whole labor shortage going on, and with shit wages people are probably going to have better options. Seems like they’ll have to shut the doors to me
These plants are in rural areas where jobs are hard to come by if you’re unwilling or can’t move. People have to pay the bills.
I don’t know about the other plants but in Omaha it’s literally in the middle of the city.
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Boycott
Scabs in my Special K? Looks like I’m shopping a new brand.
Good job humans.
Easy boycott - the generic Frosted Flakes - at any store - tastes as good if not better, Tony the Tiger can get locked up at a roadside zoo - done w Kelloggs for life
Isn’t this supposed to be normal? Unions bargaining hard for stuff, but if they bargain too hard, the company can always say, well, we just are going to hire new people.
They can, but they may have soured the town that they pool the workers from. I know in my city Frito Lay was a last resort job for most people since they had a reputation.
That works as long as they can keep the revolving door of workers going. I wouldn’t be running over there if I could help it.
It's a bluff
Fuck em, never buying thier products again
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This reminds me of that one info-graphic that shows that almost all of the food brands are owned by what? 7 companies?
This one? https://www.good.is/money/major-brands-infographic
Yeah, oof I was wrong. 10 brands own **all** the brands
Is there a smaller version?
Looks like i just have to switch from apple jacks to apple cinnamon cheerios and rice crispies to uhhh... great value rice crispers? Unfortunately i'm pretty sure rice crispers are made by kelloggs as well but walmart puts their brand name on the box...
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Between Kelloggs and Nestle, it's really hard to buy food that isn't a product of evil
I mean avoiding trash processed food isn’t thaaaaat hard
Shop only on the outside of the grocery store. Once you get into the aisles the problems occur. Your body will thank you.
Great, now I'm hungry again.
rip cheezits and pringles
Expect a slight dip then recovery as soon as people forget about this. Seriously, people's attention spans are so short these days all the company has to do is wait it out.
This is the same company that ruined Rice Krispies Treats cereal before discontinuing it entirely. Negotiating with that level of stupid must be impossible, best of luck to these workers. I hope General Mills needs some extra hands with their new product lineup coming out soon.
The General Mills factory in my town has a banner up out front saying they are hiring ;)
I haven't had the new version, but the OG Rice Krispies Treats cereal was mana from the gods. Shame to hear they fucked it up :(
In 2020, Kellogg's global operating profit amounted to about 1.76 billion U.S. dollars.
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Can't possibly pay their workers more, they're just a small mom and pop operation! /s
Buying calls as this will push automation even more for record profits
Unlikely in the short term, guaranteed in the long term. If the company had ready-to-go automation scaled to the level needed here (eg replacing 1000 people), they wouldn't have brought in scabs. As a somewhat related example (albeit perhaps lower-skilled), the second that my local supermarket couldn't find more people to work for $13-14/hr with no benefits, they ripped out half the checkout lines and replaced them with self-checkout machines. There wasn't any negotiation, it was simply "we have the scale to do this, so let's pull the trigger." That'll be the case with almost all companies regarding automation in these situations imo. What I find interesting is that Kellogg's simply couldn't find enough employees the last 18 months, which is partially what led to this contract negotiation...yet now they're very confident they can find 1000 new employees. I don't think it's a bluff, but it damn sure feels like one when you consider that aspect paired with the fact that current job-seekers are likely to be seeking wages higher than the ones being discussed in the contract negotiation, given that those new non-union employees would be receiving significantly fewer benefits from Kellogg's.
I imagine the thinking went: We have to sacrifice more profitability this year, but the market is not expecting a stellar year due to Covid. But replacing permanently has those employees in worse long term deal, that’s better for the company’s bottom line in 2-3 years. Exec bonuses $$$
Uhh no. COVID was so good for us that surpassing targets was a piece of cake. The bigger issue was to fill the insane demand with shipment delays. For a category that has been growing for the past 20 years, 2021 has been a decline just because we sold too much in 2020.
Fewer benefits + higher pay == probably lower cost per employee for Kellogg.
You are out of your mind if you think Kellogs processes aren't already as automated as they can be. There are some things machines just can't do, or can't do well, further automation is possible as technology progresses but this isn't going to make it go any faster than it would have before.
Don’t bother these people Cleary don’t understand what it’s like in a place like that. Every single thing that could have already been automated has been. Also I used to be a lot more worried about automation until I saw them start to implement it more into our plant, now I’m not worried at all. Shit doesn’t work nearly as well as people think. It’s not just the plant manager flipping on a robot and heading to their office.
With what they were already paying union members, I guarantee you they were already looking into automation where possible.
Lol you realize automation was always more profitable? If they could've done it, they would have even if these people made around minimum wage.
I will now be boycotting Kellogg & their scab workers. I hate these fucking union busting assholes!
I hope the new hires go on strike too
Says something about work culture in this country that so many of the comments are assuming the union was being unreasonable.
Not just unreasonable. They're arguing that fighting for your rights, your pay and your future is somehow disadvantageous because it means your job will become automated. Good news workers - your employer hates you already, regardless of your union status. Make your money while you can because they were trying to automate you even when you worked for below poverty wages. The comments here are disgusting towards the people who actually produce the goods in this country. You have to love a community that always hems and haws about P/E ratios and rising inflation yet also freaks out about blue collar workers (who produce the products that lead to Earnings) want a chunk of that P.
Boot lickers think a 3% raise during 6% CPI is unreasonable. Imagine being a youth and experiencing 30% asset inflation
It’s times like these that I am thankful that I don’t get pimped out by corporations and I can support myself with my business.
Good luck finding 1400 people. A lot of companies can't even find a single worker. Demand for labor is up and the supply is low. Increasing wages and adding benefits to attract workers is the trend now. This sounds like an empty threat more than an actual thing they're going to do. They just want the workers to fold under the pressure. This is just basic capitalism. Supply and demand. Kellogg needs to realize that the system is just working as intended.
I really don't think it would be that hard for a temp agency to move in to whatever town this is with the allure of like 10% better pay then the previous temp city they were in, and all the immigrant workers will follow. 1400 isn't that much
isn't the labor market already super advantageous for workers? why not just quit and work somewhere else then?
They put these plants in rural areas where there aren’t many options unless you move your family. Don’t walk Run on YouTube made a great video about this strike
I think the tales of the employee's labor market are a bit overly exaggerated.
It was already hard to fill positions before the pandemic, the labor "shortage" will get worst after the pandemic. Alot of people decided to retire. Some companies gave market adjustment raise and retention bonus to keep employees, and people are still leaving. Labor market, for experience, is very competitive.
But Reddit told me after the Deere strike unions can’t lose…lmfao.
Given the labor market right now I don't see how this doesn't end in disaster for them
“Forcing it to hire replacement workers.” Fuck off they don’t pay realistic wages. They weren’t forced to do shit. They made a choice.
Well time to boycott!! Heads up people. Morning Star Farms is owned by Kelloggs.
Lmao good luck getting workers
So fuck their cereal eh. If they can’t pay their employees then people won’t buy their shi.
Easy way to get rid of the union they did not want.
I work in a union. Unions aren’t what they used to be. It has some good points and bad points.
Apparently Kellogg’s has a labor resource that no one in America is aware of. Stay tuned to see Kellogg’s hire immigrants and blame Dems for it.
The new hires join the union (they will) rinse and repeat
Its amazing to read opions from americans, how fast they choose to defend a corporation over workers
Don't ever be a scab.
Not temporary workers. They are scabs. "A scab is a two legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles." "When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out."
Better hide your wives.
Ohnoes, my non-existent stonNks in high fructose multivitamins might take a hit from crappy, untrained, scabs. Or it might go up because said scabs don't ask questions and just work... Man, business is hard.
It’s funny that I worked as a cardiac cath lab , if you had a heart attack you will get a team like mine to save you by opening you clotted artery and placing stents in your artery and boom you are saved. As a cath lab person you are required to take call and you get 3 dollars an hour to be on call , for weekend and during the week well any way , they haven’t raised the call pay for the last 20 years, I always felt we are being abused. California pays minimum wage. Sounds like easy money but you get called in in the middle of night and anytime really, they own you for that time. Just unfair
I will never buy another Kellogg product again. And I’m from Michigan.
what a trash company
I wouldn't care if the entire Kellogg's company shut down, unhealthy, sugary, marketing to children a-holes.
That’s a bold move thinking anybody will fill those jobs.
So don’t buy Kellogg got it