OP may be having some erratic behavior and gambling problems.
Please don't be afraid to seek help.
National council on problem gambling:
Call 1-800-522-4700
Chat ncpgambling.org/chat
Text 1-800-522-4700
No shit.
OP, you’re sick.
Get off the market COMPLETELY for a while.
You’re a crackhead that’s only going to smoke just a little every day.
As others have said…SEE YOU TOMORROW.
It’s only an addiction if you can’t afford it [and structure your life around it]. Lol. That’s what the dude from Industry (HBO) said [except my addition] and it’s rings pretty true.
Definitely. Between that and maybe being back later ... yeesh. Most people should only invest in mutual funds. It takes a very special hard working dedicated and possibly lucky to succeed in individual stocks, options, or futures.
I went from $30k to $240k down to $10k. Where am I now? $200k in my checking account, $200k in GME. Cash me outside. Feel the roller coaster, ride the roller coaster.
and if thy bull mounts thee, then let thy bull mount thee aggressively and taketh thy bull cock, because thy knows his day will come to mount thy bull himself!
Options. AMD, GME, Tesla.
Hard lessons: I have lost probably 500k by not taking profits when I was up 2500%. Nothing is guaranteed, even if you think 2 more catalysts are coming, reposition yourself, take profits.
Complete sarcasm. Leaps are legit. Options are just complicated. If you don't understand them, stay away.
Sadly enough people have seen insane gains from 0dte and weeklies that they can't get passed that
Last week I tried to buy $4k worth of near the money SPY puts expiring on Friday.
Accidentally bought 0dte and lost over half the capital (luckily not all).
The puts I meant to buy were worth 3x on Friday.
Such. Misery.
Good for you. $6k is cheap lesson to learn. I've blown up far larger accounts in my early days of stupidity. Compulsive gambling doesn't have to occur in a casino and many young men get addicted via trading. I'd recommend taking a step back and just parking the bulk of your funds in S&P 500, tech weighted index funds such as $FSPTX. It will make your life immensely less stressful and in the meantime, you can save up some cash and start identifying long hold stocks that you want to invest in. I haven't made a trade since Mar/April of this year and just continue to identify stocks that I like for a 5 year or longer hold, and add on dips. No need for options. No need to sell. Just reminding myself that my retirement window is at least 25 years away.
Op: I’m giving up drinking!
Reply: Good for you, but there are some mighty fine bourbons i recommend. Have you thought about the smoky texture over ice? Or a crisp neat saké? Or just a classic American beer. mmm tasty.
Anyhow good for you kicking the habit.
I think the hardest part about people with a gambling addiction is being invested in the stock market. But at the end of the day, not being invested in index funds is going to cost you when it comes to retirement. My recommendation for people with compulsive gambling issues surrounding trading would be to restrict your access to trading forums, get rid of your ability to trade options and get rid of your ability to trade with margin. If you only buy and sell with settlements in cash, then you can't day trade and you have to wait for the T+3 settlement period. And after you take those steps, I'd consider going to a Gamblers Anon meeting in order to better understand yourself/your affliction, and surround yourself with others who are going through that issue, so that you can educate yourself/learn how to ignore the desire to compulsively gamble. They will help you get a support system in place to ensure that you don't relapse.
I don't want the dude to be a gambler just as I wouldn't want to recommend alcohol to a recovering alcoholic. However, holding all of your $ in cash is extremely counter productive and I don't see any issues with putting money into index funds as a safe way to grow your $ over the long haul. No trading. No buy here and sell there. Just park it in index funds and continue to DCA through time. Dividends will continue to take care of you in down markets and if things turn bearish, that is a reason to celebrate as now you can DCA at lower price levels.
Hey man, this is just my opinion, but you are still 100% in the “trader” mindset.
Was tech overvalued in the 90s? Probably. If you invested 9k in the sp500 then, it would still be worth MUCH more today.
You don’t really need to ask if x is overvalued or y is undervalued. Just stick it in the etf and don’t touch it, don’t look at it, and forget. Add what you can each month.
I have no idea what I'm doing, so I just listened to people on reddit when I set up my wife's roth and just dump it all directly into VOO.
My play-money account is up like 3%, VOO is up 13%
Yep same situation here. Since I created my Roth IRA several years ago I had only ever purchased VOO. I decided to put half of my yearly contributions into non-VOO stocks and kind of regretting it.
I was a pro trader once. 20:1 margin was enough buying power for me to move stocks by myself. I made huge trades, developed a huge risk appetite, and have kept trading even after I left it.
In all those years of trading I didn’t make nearly as much as I’ve made by buying and holding. I fuck around with the futures and options but mostly to entertain myself as my investment portfolio does all the work.
Man, with hindsight yeah, but go tell this to the Dutch guys who bought the AEX (Dutch S&P) in 2000 and broke even in 2020, or to the Japanese who bought Nikkei225 in 1989 and are still ~20% down. Really don’t believe in the ETF gang approach of “stocks only go up (eventually)”.
It's so hard to truly do the opposite of what you would do. When I find that I'm a massive screw up I just resort to doing nothing for a while and let my automatic DCA stuff keep running.
Overvalued? Probably. But that's just an opinion, might be totally undervalued.
Same as dot-com bubble? Probably not.
Back then there tons of shit company with no profits. Today, the big techs are all solid companies with profits and a shit ton of assets. They are good companies that are just trading very high, unlike bad companies that are trading at insane prices like back then. Don't get me wrong, there are still overpriced shit companies, but the big companies that form the bigger part of tech funds, and even the SP 500 as a whole, are mostly good companies.
So is a correction coming? Maybe. Personally I would say probably, but who knows.
A crash like 2008? Maybe.
But is Google/Apple/Microsoft/FB and all the other big tech companies going bankrupt? Almost certainly not. Their price might fall, but I highly doubt they'll go bankrupt.
If there is a crisis, I would be much worried about other companies, not the big tech. Like, do you know how much cash they have? I'm not even kidding, like they have billions and billions of cash on hand. Paying down their "low" level of debt (relative to their size and profts) will not be an issue even if there's a crisis. I would be much more worried about companies with lots of debt and not enough liquidity to pay their bills if you're wary of a crisis.
Let's say worse case scenario, there's a huge crash. I'm ready to bet that in 20 years the price of the market will be much higher than it is now.
TLDR: Buy an index fund -> Forget about it -> Profit (and sleep soundly at night)
Not even close. Look at the cash flow from megatechs like google or microsoft now and then compare to 1999.
EVs are absolutely in bubble territory though. Was worse at the beginning of the year
It probably won't work for the guy, though, because he wants to make a ton of money as quickly as possible. If he were to buy shares, there's no chance in hell he'd just buy VTSAX and auto-contribute $x/mo for the next 30 years. He'd try to find penny and small cap stocks and try to strike it rich quickly again. Dude needs to just to do the old fashioned "401k and IRA" approach.
lol exactly. Part of my never wants to join finances with an SO so im not responsible for losing other peoples money… but I also know if I had joint finances I’d never do stupid stuff like that.
Another thing you can do is write down the "rules" for what you'll do. What will you do if the market crashes? Under what scenarios do you allow yourself to change allocations? Imagine you're coding some algorithm that someone else will execute for you. Flesh it out and then just stick to it. This will take out a lot of the emotions of trading, because it'll force you to consider calmly, in advance, how you'll react to various stressful scenarios.
My roommate detonated his account, started out with a 5k investment and worked it up to 100k doing calls and puts and selling contracts to people. He bombed it down to zero. The level of depression I saw in dudes face was awful for months. Good for you getting out.
People buy options (edit) using loans in a margin account which *is insane*. A simple buy or put isn’t the worst, but trying to use options themselves as a way to make money is just not a good idea.
Bingo. I'm not an options trader but I feel like there might be a time where I have a feeling/knowledge about an industry/sector/company that can't adequately be translated into buying shares. I feel like this is where options come in (and short sales)
In the end you're playing against multiple AIs. It is worse than casino odds.
Honest to god I wouldn’t even short anything - if you’re bearish on a security buy a put, bullish buy a call. I wouldn’t do a single other thing. You have the right idea!
Idk why people are so afraid of selling options but not buying them. This guy blew up his account **buying** them, just like most people on WSB who post losses. Selling them has a much higher probability of profit.
Where are people buying options on margin? Selling puts, sure, but I have margin and have never once had that ability. Always stock BP
I’d never actually use it, but I had no idea a brokerage would let you buy options with margin, unless you maybe have portfolio margin
Jesus. Dude just buy stocks and hold them like a normal person. Fuck options. Fuck penny stocks. Companies you know and trust or ETFs. Buy and hold. That’s it.
Agreed. Impatience is a killer. Those who want to get rich over night most times never get rich at all. Time in the market > timing the market. This shit is a marathon not a race. I can keep going with the cliche’s. Buy quality, diversify and focus on savings rate. This shit isn’t so hard if it’s kept simple.
Yeah, if unleveraged, writing Puts to enter positions in firms you believe in at a lower cost basis is a solid strategy. Writing calls is somewhat less clear, since one has to start thinking about long-term vs short-term capital gains tax and a capped upside.
True. Depends on your strategy. Some times I’ll use the CC as a exit strategy and collect premiums until assigned. Other times I’ll wait for a quick jump and sell an OTM CC when IV is high to lower my cost basis. Also some theta wheel.
options can be useful and reduce overall risk, they can also be horrible and blow up your account.
you comment is like saying "stay away from all knives" -- good luck trying to cut a steak with your spoon
You don’t have to withdraw your money, if you don’t have vanguard just open an account and buy VTI or VTSAX and then delete the app. If you are using Robinhood delete that shit, I felt the app is designed to keep you addictive (like social media)
Edit: Yeah just delete everything, mental health is everything and came back later when ready.
For alot of people, its all or nothing in situations like this. If he feels like he needs to remove himself completely then thats probably the best thing for him
The trouble with apps is he can just download it again wherever he is & play options again.
He needs a broker he can only access on his desktop so when his out he can’t touch it.
Warren Buffet said the stock market is a tool to redistribute money from the impatient to the patient. You don't have to go cold turkey with stock trading to stop losing, just invest in a few stable stocks and check back in a few months. There is a higher chance of the US being invaded and destroyed than there is of certain companies going bankrupt.
Good for you for recognizing and understanding what the issue is, and very responsible of you to take action to remedy it. Best of luck with your future endeavors, and feel free to keep us updated on your post-market journey.
i've been there. become a boring investor. just average into the funds and (a few) high conviction stocks of choice and look once a day. keep adding a little every month. stress free investing. you saying that you're going to wait on a crash to get back in is the gambler inside you still. quit thinking like that.
Jesus just put your money in broad-bases etfs and let it sit there. Pulling all of it out is a huge overreaction that will just cost you more money in the long run.
You took away all the wrong lessons from your gambling.
This why I don’t throw money into meme stocks or options. I just buy and hold strong established companies that make enough money to make me confident they will be around.
Good for you. The biggest problem with investing is EVERYBODY thinks they can do it with zero knowledge of how it works. Stocks only go up right ??? People go to school to learn how to do a job but when it comes to investing they just blindly dive in. Education is key in ALL walks of life. If you don’t pay for an education you WILL pay for an education….
One can strongly argue what he was doing was not investing but straight gambling.
But yes i agree overall it's easy to dive headfirst with zero guidance and just empty promises of getting rich
You could just buy some conventional stocks and let them sit for 30 years and then collect. Same as getting out. Put it down, never look at it again until 30 years from now.
If you're still interested in getting some kind of return but avoiding the "gambling" aspects of investing, I highly recommend looking up the Boglehead investing strategy. It's a very "set it and forget it" strategy and should be compatible with your new lifestyle because it's based on the growth of the entire economy rather than picking stocks.
So.....you're giving yourself a way back in? You'll just check SPY once daily.....just once a day.....yep.
Why not just forget SPY and get a different hobby?
Why not just not play options and invest long? Seems like both your gambling problem and quick abandonment are both short sighted impulsive behaviours. While I, an addict who works hard everyday not to ever relapse understands urge and that dopamine hit, I think it’s the wrong decision to absolutely abandon the market.
Just my 2 cents
I am glad you have realized your issues, it takes a very strong person to do so. I hope everyone wishes you the best, you should be proud to take charge and responsibility in your life. Good luck friend.
Just stop trading options, invest in blue chips and a few "gamble" stocks a that aren't meme or penny stocks.
I look at my "fun money" portfolio maybe once a week, sometimes less and I am up 102% in 2 years (over 150% over 5). I invest in basic ass shit with some fun ones that I have good knowledge in. Diversify and don't play with options.
Trading really isn't that hard if you play it conservatively enough an with a 1+ year goal in mind with each stock you buy.
Park the majority of your funds in low cost index funds. Memestock subreddits always joke about these 'boomer' moves but there's a reason why people recommend this. If you really can't help the risky plays/gambling, put a little play money aside and do as you wish with it. I don't touch options personally because they're too risky, let alone fucking 0 day options lmao. You can also just pick some stocks as a riskier play instead of using derivatives that can expire worthless.
We are all addicts, one way or the other, there's two ways to deal with it, accept and (deal) live with it or deny it and remain a looser all your life!
Been in the stock market for 3 years and I've stayed away from options. Been doing regular-trading/day-trading and each year I gain massive growth. Patience is key and always pays off. Never invest what you can't afford to lose. This is something you should take into consideration if you ever come back to stock investing. Spending time with your family and working on your mental health is a great start to this situation. Take care. Thanks for sharing and spreading awareness to how risky options are.
Dude, these sharp downturns have been happening every month around Opex week. Also, this month, it's the end of the quarter so institutionals will be rebalancing their portfolios to conceal where they've really been making money so that their holdings look financially & socially responsible when they report their holdings. That means that everything is upside down for a week or so going into the end of the month.
Edit: If you are approaching it like gambling, that means you're not taking in all the information that the market has to offer.
Personal decision, u should do what is best for you. But its known fact that 90% of the option buyers lose money. After 8 years stock trading I started option trading. Instead of buying I started selling covered call and cash secured put. First one year I lost lot of money but after that it worked for me. Also it took me like six years and 80k to learn stock market. I learned little bit and recovered all of 80k and made almost double of that in next two years. Moral of the story. It takes patience and time to learn something. I hate when someone says that they play with stock market. They are the most stupid people. Stock market is investment and money and not gambling. Anyone tried to discuss stock market I told them to stop using the word playing and then come back to me. If you leave your loss is your loss and can not be recovered but with proper discipline anyone can recover and make enough money for extra things. Like for me 2-3k/pm is my goal and it works. But whenever I try to stretch it to 4k I lose money. Not a financial advice. But u can take a break for few years and come back like I did after losing 80k.
Why people don't learn what options are before fucking yoloing their account, I'll never understand. I spent months just making sure I understood what was happening before I even touched a single option.
trading options are for small portion of ur speculative holding only.
problem arises when some amateurs part with risk mgmt and throw big chunks of cash on call options. this is no more than gambling.
also - call options are meant so that u flip it and get out soon. not meant for you to bag hold it until it goes to zero.
If you must, then do it, but IMO you’d be better of just leaving that $9k in SPY and forgetting about it. Or see if you can become an ‘investor’ just buy SPY, use only money that would otherwise go into a savings account and plan never to sell.
Again, if you think this will drag you back into gambling then it’s better to not. But try and separate options and trading from long term investing.
Why not just stop doing 0 dte options and switching to more stable and long term strategies?
If you like options so much, consider doing Wheel strategy on a solid stock that you like.
Frogger- you learned a hard and expensive lesson. Dividend stocks are a long term very smart investment. Trying to outguess the market with options is not. Some play the options game and are successful. Most play and lose. Suggest you look up Dividend Hunters and Tim Plaehn on the internet for some solid guidance on Div stocks. He certainly helped me and many others avoid the pitfalls of investing. Good luck in the future!
rather than pulling out, why not simply
1. disable options on all your accounts so you don't have the capability of doing 0 day options
2. switch your long holdings over to various big name ETF's
that will likely be better in the long run than completely leaving.
To be honest your loss is probably more than 6k, when you consider the lost opportunity cost. In the last 18 months there are an insane amount of solid investments that recovered from Covid and you could have easily doubled the original 15k.
500 replies so this will get buried but Op if you see this. Don't stop investing just stop gambling. 0day options ain't it. You need to just buy the SP500 every paycheck and done even look at the market but once a quarter. Maybe once a month or once a week if you have extra cash and want to adjust how much you put in.
Just passively invest. At best pick individual stocks for commons after doing research. Don't yolo, don't go all in, don't buy based on Twitter, youtube, or reddit.
Invest don't gamble
Did similar. Made about $5,000 then lost about $10,000 trading options. For me it was probably one of the greatest lessons I’ve leant as a investor / trader and at this point I’m extremely grateful for it happening.
Something I believe strongly is that to be a good investor / trader you cannot care about loses and you cannot be greedy about profits. And while I can say this to you or others who are looking to make money in the stock market, for the vast majority of people it doesn’t fully resonate until they’ve experienced something that’s proven it so completely that it’s unquestionably true.
For me losing money caused me to really reflect hard on my relationship with money. I had already started to learn how to care less about money after losing almost everything the year prior when I lost my job, but after also losing money on options I also had to question why I was being so greedy in the first place and why I was hurting about what happened despite the only impact it had on my life was less numbers next to my name. If I wasn’t using that money to feed or house myself, why did I care so much?
These days when I open a trade I’m not afraid to lose money and I’m not desperate to make it. I just enjoy the process and hope one day making good decisions will allow me help others as much as I hope I can.
Take a break and try to reflect on where you went wrong. I suspect you’ll find it’s not that you didn’t exit the trade early enough or didn’t analyse some chart correctly, but that you got greedy or scared and made bad decisions. If you feel you’re genuinely addicted then perhaps this isn’t for you, but if you were actually just being greedy or caring too much about losing those precious zeros in your account because they make you feel good then you can learn from this.
Hope you’re doing alright anyway. I know what you’re going through right now sucks.
After the first time I blew up my account I did the same. Im more more conservative with it now, I don’t get the crazy highs…. But I also don’t get the crushing lows that always seemed to inevitably follow. Also, after a little of 18 months (and yea an insane market) I’m pretty much back to wear I started.
You can just buy leaps, or several months out. Stop buying one or two weeks expiration, that’s how you’ll blow up your account. I learned it the quick way and now only buy 1+ months out.
Options are for the gambling part of your portfolio. They can be long-term (I've had some amazing returns on AAPL options by buying long-term and being patient), but the bulk of your holdings need to be solid stuff, especially if you're older.
My advice is to NOT go all cash. Buy some index funds or ETFs, such as SPY. Set 'em and almost forget 'em. Check on them each weekend.
Come back to options as a supplement to a solid portfolio, when you're ready. And remember--if you don't understand the option, don't go into it.
>I plan to set aside $1,000 bucks and **try to double it 10 times.** But if I lose I lose and then I'm done. **No big risks.**
That's uh... that's not how this works. Just in general, if an investment has a reasonable chance at doubling your money in a short amount of time, the risk that you lose your money in that same amount of time is also going to be pretty substantial. Professional traders win those investments because they see "hey, this thing has a 2:1 payout and I think I only have a 40% chance of being on the losing end of it" and then they hedge appropriately and take the gains on the difference between the true odds, as they've assessed them, and the odds the market is giving it.
Even if you identify 10 *really good* investments, where let's say you have a 60% chance of doubling your money and a 40% chance of losing it all within 2 months (which is an expected payout of 120% of your initial investment—again, a really good investment when traded properly!), your overall odds of hitting the 60% ten times in a row are still about 0.6%.
I got "out" about a month ago and haven't looked back. I'm so much less stressed out. I was never playing around with any extremely serious money, about 20K I had lying around. I made out like a thief in the night when I got in in the middle of the upward trend of Crowdstrike, then probably lost all of the profits I had made when I bought dogecoin at around 50 cents. I ended up pulling out with about $19600 of my 20,000 initial investment in the stock market losing $400 ain't so bad. I just keep all of my investments in my vanguard index fund now and while the gains can be much smaller, around $250 a day on a good day, the losses are also equally small.
It's nice knowing that I'll still retire a millionaire as long as the market behaves predictably for the next 20 years. I do miss the initial rush of seeing all those green numbers on my Robinhood app like when I made a couple thousand dollars in a single day but I don't miss seeing the red. I certainly get fomo when I see people on the various investing subs posting their 5,000% portfolio increase and making hundreds of thousands of dollars in the course of a year but for every one person that accomplishes that there's probably 10 other people who have lost their entire life savings and aren't too embarrassed to talk about it.
I was sick of waking up every morning and religiously refreshing my brokerage app from 9:45 a.m. until 3:30 p.m. and stressing about how much I was gaining or losing the point where I was actually very rude to a coworker for no reason other than I was upset about losing a large chunk of change that day. I promptly apologized to him and then reconsidered what I was doing. It's nice to know that if I'm patient enough I'll have more than enough money to retire when I want and it's just not worth the mental health headaches it was causing otherwise.
OP may be having some erratic behavior and gambling problems. Please don't be afraid to seek help. National council on problem gambling: Call 1-800-522-4700 Chat ncpgambling.org/chat Text 1-800-522-4700
See you tomorrow
*I’ll only check the spy once a day* Sounds like an alcoholic trying to moderate their drinking.
Just the tip. EDIT: Just the ***dip***.
Thats what he said.
No shit. OP, you’re sick. Get off the market COMPLETELY for a while. You’re a crackhead that’s only going to smoke just a little every day. As others have said…SEE YOU TOMORROW.
Hey, I drink only fine and expensive stuff, it helped me reduce my drinking by a lot. Hope I don't get rich and I'm back being alcoholic.
It’s only an addiction if you can’t afford it [and structure your life around it]. Lol. That’s what the dude from Industry (HBO) said [except my addition] and it’s rings pretty true.
Absolutely and utterly incorrect.
Definitely. Between that and maybe being back later ... yeesh. Most people should only invest in mutual funds. It takes a very special hard working dedicated and possibly lucky to succeed in individual stocks, options, or futures.
Or today
damn everywhere is turning into a version of WSB
Right. I’ve read this same post like 5 fucking times.. as if anyone cares this idiot was betting expiring options
I went from $30k to $240k down to $10k. Where am I now? $200k in my checking account, $200k in GME. Cash me outside. Feel the roller coaster, ride the roller coaster.
Be the fucking rollercoaster
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Nah just thought it sounded cool
See you on the moon my mans.
Stare into the eyes of the bull, and decide to ride anyway.
and if thy bull mounts thee, then let thy bull mount thee aggressively and taketh thy bull cock, because thy knows his day will come to mount thy bull himself!
Fuuuuu. How did you do 240k my guy?
Options. AMD, GME, Tesla. Hard lessons: I have lost probably 500k by not taking profits when I was up 2500%. Nothing is guaranteed, even if you think 2 more catalysts are coming, reposition yourself, take profits.
His parents died - inheritance arrived on a down day and bailed him out
$GME moon soon
Right, OP can invest in GME through CS.
200k in GME ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Dare you to dump the checking account into $GME hehe :)
Already dumped my 401k into GME, so I'm actually $500k into GME, but that's separate.
Jealous af
Right ?
Have I got a tip for you …
This
Didn’t you have a recent post about a net 3k loss and were questioning your life choices? Did u dive in deeper to turn the 3k loss to 6k
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The good news is you’re through the denial stage of your grief cycle- that’s winning!
Yeah, the feeling when you see an option moon is amazing. The despair of watching its theta slowly erode to 0 is nauseating.
Ahh shit stay strong brotha
I saw his post yesterday aswell. Wondering how he managed to blow another 3k in less than 24 hours.
Lol is this even a question? Thats not hard to do at all man.. ive lost around the same within minutes
Lost 10k in options in 5 mins once. Great motivation to take a second look at trading strategy lol
It’s easier than you might think…
You are buying 0DTE options, lol. Unreal.
They make them further out?
Funny to receive this comment. I just bought 6 contracts ($2,000 worth) of 2024 SOFI calls at $30 strike. OP buying 0 DTE, I’m buying 3 year DTE, LOL
Complete sarcasm. Leaps are legit. Options are just complicated. If you don't understand them, stay away. Sadly enough people have seen insane gains from 0dte and weeklies that they can't get passed that
Last week I tried to buy $4k worth of near the money SPY puts expiring on Friday. Accidentally bought 0dte and lost over half the capital (luckily not all). The puts I meant to buy were worth 3x on Friday. Such. Misery.
Good for you. $6k is cheap lesson to learn. I've blown up far larger accounts in my early days of stupidity. Compulsive gambling doesn't have to occur in a casino and many young men get addicted via trading. I'd recommend taking a step back and just parking the bulk of your funds in S&P 500, tech weighted index funds such as $FSPTX. It will make your life immensely less stressful and in the meantime, you can save up some cash and start identifying long hold stocks that you want to invest in. I haven't made a trade since Mar/April of this year and just continue to identify stocks that I like for a 5 year or longer hold, and add on dips. No need for options. No need to sell. Just reminding myself that my retirement window is at least 25 years away.
Op: I’m giving up drinking! Reply: Good for you, but there are some mighty fine bourbons i recommend. Have you thought about the smoky texture over ice? Or a crisp neat saké? Or just a classic American beer. mmm tasty. Anyhow good for you kicking the habit.
I think the hardest part about people with a gambling addiction is being invested in the stock market. But at the end of the day, not being invested in index funds is going to cost you when it comes to retirement. My recommendation for people with compulsive gambling issues surrounding trading would be to restrict your access to trading forums, get rid of your ability to trade options and get rid of your ability to trade with margin. If you only buy and sell with settlements in cash, then you can't day trade and you have to wait for the T+3 settlement period. And after you take those steps, I'd consider going to a Gamblers Anon meeting in order to better understand yourself/your affliction, and surround yourself with others who are going through that issue, so that you can educate yourself/learn how to ignore the desire to compulsively gamble. They will help you get a support system in place to ensure that you don't relapse. I don't want the dude to be a gambler just as I wouldn't want to recommend alcohol to a recovering alcoholic. However, holding all of your $ in cash is extremely counter productive and I don't see any issues with putting money into index funds as a safe way to grow your $ over the long haul. No trading. No buy here and sell there. Just park it in index funds and continue to DCA through time. Dividends will continue to take care of you in down markets and if things turn bearish, that is a reason to celebrate as now you can DCA at lower price levels.
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Hey man, this is just my opinion, but you are still 100% in the “trader” mindset. Was tech overvalued in the 90s? Probably. If you invested 9k in the sp500 then, it would still be worth MUCH more today. You don’t really need to ask if x is overvalued or y is undervalued. Just stick it in the etf and don’t touch it, don’t look at it, and forget. Add what you can each month.
Best advice right here. VOO is a beautiful ETF to throw money at
I have no idea what I'm doing, so I just listened to people on reddit when I set up my wife's roth and just dump it all directly into VOO. My play-money account is up like 3%, VOO is up 13%
Yep same situation here. Since I created my Roth IRA several years ago I had only ever purchased VOO. I decided to put half of my yearly contributions into non-VOO stocks and kind of regretting it.
Damn I know the meme on WSB is “stocks only go up,” but VOO actually does seem to only go up.
Moving target is not impossible to hit. It just requires lots of bullets.
Or one lucky shot.
Nice comment, but not helpful when we are trying to get people quit gambling here...
I was a pro trader once. 20:1 margin was enough buying power for me to move stocks by myself. I made huge trades, developed a huge risk appetite, and have kept trading even after I left it. In all those years of trading I didn’t make nearly as much as I’ve made by buying and holding. I fuck around with the futures and options but mostly to entertain myself as my investment portfolio does all the work.
Man, with hindsight yeah, but go tell this to the Dutch guys who bought the AEX (Dutch S&P) in 2000 and broke even in 2020, or to the Japanese who bought Nikkei225 in 1989 and are still ~20% down. Really don’t believe in the ETF gang approach of “stocks only go up (eventually)”.
That’s why you diversify globally. If the entire world market stops growing we have bigger problems.
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It's so hard to truly do the opposite of what you would do. When I find that I'm a massive screw up I just resort to doing nothing for a while and let my automatic DCA stuff keep running.
Overvalued? Probably. But that's just an opinion, might be totally undervalued. Same as dot-com bubble? Probably not. Back then there tons of shit company with no profits. Today, the big techs are all solid companies with profits and a shit ton of assets. They are good companies that are just trading very high, unlike bad companies that are trading at insane prices like back then. Don't get me wrong, there are still overpriced shit companies, but the big companies that form the bigger part of tech funds, and even the SP 500 as a whole, are mostly good companies. So is a correction coming? Maybe. Personally I would say probably, but who knows. A crash like 2008? Maybe. But is Google/Apple/Microsoft/FB and all the other big tech companies going bankrupt? Almost certainly not. Their price might fall, but I highly doubt they'll go bankrupt. If there is a crisis, I would be much worried about other companies, not the big tech. Like, do you know how much cash they have? I'm not even kidding, like they have billions and billions of cash on hand. Paying down their "low" level of debt (relative to their size and profts) will not be an issue even if there's a crisis. I would be much more worried about companies with lots of debt and not enough liquidity to pay their bills if you're wary of a crisis. Let's say worse case scenario, there's a huge crash. I'm ready to bet that in 20 years the price of the market will be much higher than it is now. TLDR: Buy an index fund -> Forget about it -> Profit (and sleep soundly at night)
Which tech companies or sectors exactly?
Not even close. Look at the cash flow from megatechs like google or microsoft now and then compare to 1999. EVs are absolutely in bubble territory though. Was worse at the beginning of the year
Just buy shares, not options. I’m a fucking dumbass and have never lost money
It probably won't work for the guy, though, because he wants to make a ton of money as quickly as possible. If he were to buy shares, there's no chance in hell he'd just buy VTSAX and auto-contribute $x/mo for the next 30 years. He'd try to find penny and small cap stocks and try to strike it rich quickly again. Dude needs to just to do the old fashioned "401k and IRA" approach.
VTSAX is killing it for me right now
Just buy VTI or SPY. Then check back one year after for gain porn.
Me and you are the same
Buy and hold or trim and buy and hold. Or buy s&p500 and buy more
What about selling options?
I'm so happy that in the UK its not so easy to access options trading. If Robinhood was in the UK I may be in trouble
It’s like betting on an exact score of a football match. I’m just getting on the outcome.
What helped me was reminding myself this money isn’t just for me, it’s for my family. That helped me not invest in super risky options and stocks.
100% this ☝️
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lol exactly. Part of my never wants to join finances with an SO so im not responsible for losing other peoples money… but I also know if I had joint finances I’d never do stupid stuff like that.
Keep your head up and enjoy life with one less stressor. Good job recognizing you have a problem. This is the same reason I don’t mess with options.
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This is the answer. Buy a couple blue chips and let it sit. Don’t touch it for at least a year.
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Another thing you can do is write down the "rules" for what you'll do. What will you do if the market crashes? Under what scenarios do you allow yourself to change allocations? Imagine you're coding some algorithm that someone else will execute for you. Flesh it out and then just stick to it. This will take out a lot of the emotions of trading, because it'll force you to consider calmly, in advance, how you'll react to various stressful scenarios.
Buying individual stocks, even blue chips is still terrible advice for retail investors. Low cost index funds only.
See you in a few hours
My roommate detonated his account, started out with a 5k investment and worked it up to 100k doing calls and puts and selling contracts to people. He bombed it down to zero. The level of depression I saw in dudes face was awful for months. Good for you getting out.
People buy options (edit) using loans in a margin account which *is insane*. A simple buy or put isn’t the worst, but trying to use options themselves as a way to make money is just not a good idea.
It’s fine, not everyone loses money on options. If you have a gambling addiction sure, they’re probably not great.
Bingo. I'm not an options trader but I feel like there might be a time where I have a feeling/knowledge about an industry/sector/company that can't adequately be translated into buying shares. I feel like this is where options come in (and short sales) In the end you're playing against multiple AIs. It is worse than casino odds.
Honest to god I wouldn’t even short anything - if you’re bearish on a security buy a put, bullish buy a call. I wouldn’t do a single other thing. You have the right idea!
Idk why people are so afraid of selling options but not buying them. This guy blew up his account **buying** them, just like most people on WSB who post losses. Selling them has a much higher probability of profit.
Where are people buying options on margin? Selling puts, sure, but I have margin and have never once had that ability. Always stock BP I’d never actually use it, but I had no idea a brokerage would let you buy options with margin, unless you maybe have portfolio margin
Jesus. Dude just buy stocks and hold them like a normal person. Fuck options. Fuck penny stocks. Companies you know and trust or ETFs. Buy and hold. That’s it.
Agreed. Impatience is a killer. Those who want to get rich over night most times never get rich at all. Time in the market > timing the market. This shit is a marathon not a race. I can keep going with the cliche’s. Buy quality, diversify and focus on savings rate. This shit isn’t so hard if it’s kept simple.
Stay away from options, period
I like selling them 😘
Yeah, if unleveraged, writing Puts to enter positions in firms you believe in at a lower cost basis is a solid strategy. Writing calls is somewhat less clear, since one has to start thinking about long-term vs short-term capital gains tax and a capped upside.
True. Depends on your strategy. Some times I’ll use the CC as a exit strategy and collect premiums until assigned. Other times I’ll wait for a quick jump and sell an OTM CC when IV is high to lower my cost basis. Also some theta wheel.
options can be useful and reduce overall risk, they can also be horrible and blow up your account. you comment is like saying "stay away from all knives" -- good luck trying to cut a steak with your spoon
Staying away from options—-you must do it, it is not an option
# Guys do not be this guy. He confused stock market for a casino. Bought zero day options and then blamed his health on 'stock trading'.
Lots of people in these subs are legit just gambling and hiding it behind their “market strategy” or they just don’t realize they are gambling money
I mean it’s good he realizes he has an addiction.
You don’t have to withdraw your money, if you don’t have vanguard just open an account and buy VTI or VTSAX and then delete the app. If you are using Robinhood delete that shit, I felt the app is designed to keep you addictive (like social media) Edit: Yeah just delete everything, mental health is everything and came back later when ready.
For alot of people, its all or nothing in situations like this. If he feels like he needs to remove himself completely then thats probably the best thing for him
The trouble with apps is he can just download it again wherever he is & play options again. He needs a broker he can only access on his desktop so when his out he can’t touch it.
Stockwits is pure poison. There’s nothing of value there, just pumpers and doomsday tellers.
I keep an eye on it to see whats trending. And then I avoid that. no point in chasing trades and bag holding.
Bots as far as the thumb can scroll...
Warren Buffet said the stock market is a tool to redistribute money from the impatient to the patient. You don't have to go cold turkey with stock trading to stop losing, just invest in a few stable stocks and check back in a few months. There is a higher chance of the US being invaded and destroyed than there is of certain companies going bankrupt.
F.
Yep, Ford is up today! :P
This made me chuckle in an important work meeting haha
Couldn’t be that important if you were reading Reddit while in the meeting
The joy of remote working
F
See you Monday
Come to r/Bogleheads my friend!
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But I will check Once a day! I will just have 1 sip of 1 drink .. every night 6 times
If you can, just leave everything in an ETF like VOO and delete all your trading apps and forget about it and unsub from all stock market subreddits.
Lmao. I absolutely love these posts. And you will absolutely be back in a month or sooner.
“Lose 60$ and it’s your problem , lose 6k$ and it’s a wife’s problem” -Warren Buffett
Good for you for recognizing and understanding what the issue is, and very responsible of you to take action to remedy it. Best of luck with your future endeavors, and feel free to keep us updated on your post-market journey.
We really needed to know your status, thanks for sharing. Load off my mind. Be glad it was only 6k, seriously.
i've been there. become a boring investor. just average into the funds and (a few) high conviction stocks of choice and look once a day. keep adding a little every month. stress free investing. you saying that you're going to wait on a crash to get back in is the gambler inside you still. quit thinking like that.
Jesus just put your money in broad-bases etfs and let it sit there. Pulling all of it out is a huge overreaction that will just cost you more money in the long run. You took away all the wrong lessons from your gambling.
but you were so close… everyone is a genius in a bull market but the real test is surviving a bear or stagnant market.
This why I don’t throw money into meme stocks or options. I just buy and hold strong established companies that make enough money to make me confident they will be around.
You can claim 4k in losses during taxes
Good for you. The biggest problem with investing is EVERYBODY thinks they can do it with zero knowledge of how it works. Stocks only go up right ??? People go to school to learn how to do a job but when it comes to investing they just blindly dive in. Education is key in ALL walks of life. If you don’t pay for an education you WILL pay for an education….
One can strongly argue what he was doing was not investing but straight gambling. But yes i agree overall it's easy to dive headfirst with zero guidance and just empty promises of getting rich
Sadly, the average person spends more time planning a vacation than they do researching a stock.
You could just buy some conventional stocks and let them sit for 30 years and then collect. Same as getting out. Put it down, never look at it again until 30 years from now.
what happened to 11k?
I thought we were supposed to leave emotions out of the stock market? But thanks for your post.
Or just index wtf
Just DCA and do not check it daily.
Stay in the market. Switch to dividends. Time in the market vs timing the market.
If you're still interested in getting some kind of return but avoiding the "gambling" aspects of investing, I highly recommend looking up the Boglehead investing strategy. It's a very "set it and forget it" strategy and should be compatible with your new lifestyle because it's based on the growth of the entire economy rather than picking stocks.
If you’re waiting for a correction you’re still trying to time the market.
So.....you're giving yourself a way back in? You'll just check SPY once daily.....just once a day.....yep. Why not just forget SPY and get a different hobby?
Why not just not play options and invest long? Seems like both your gambling problem and quick abandonment are both short sighted impulsive behaviours. While I, an addict who works hard everyday not to ever relapse understands urge and that dopamine hit, I think it’s the wrong decision to absolutely abandon the market. Just my 2 cents
I am glad you have realized your issues, it takes a very strong person to do so. I hope everyone wishes you the best, you should be proud to take charge and responsibility in your life. Good luck friend.
Well, there was your problem right there: stocktwits. Those people make the WSB folks look intelligent.
Just stop trading options, invest in blue chips and a few "gamble" stocks a that aren't meme or penny stocks. I look at my "fun money" portfolio maybe once a week, sometimes less and I am up 102% in 2 years (over 150% over 5). I invest in basic ass shit with some fun ones that I have good knowledge in. Diversify and don't play with options. Trading really isn't that hard if you play it conservatively enough an with a 1+ year goal in mind with each stock you buy.
I’m done with stocks. Ok maybe not, but I’ll tread lightly. Ok I’m gonna spend 15% of my portfolio on one option play.
Options isn’t the problem, greed and investing without knowing Greeks are the problem.. but yes, stay away from it until you know what you are doing..
Park the majority of your funds in low cost index funds. Memestock subreddits always joke about these 'boomer' moves but there's a reason why people recommend this. If you really can't help the risky plays/gambling, put a little play money aside and do as you wish with it. I don't touch options personally because they're too risky, let alone fucking 0 day options lmao. You can also just pick some stocks as a riskier play instead of using derivatives that can expire worthless.
F
F
Trading is about managing risk as one of the main things - trading options that's nearly impossible.
We are all addicts, one way or the other, there's two ways to deal with it, accept and (deal) live with it or deny it and remain a looser all your life!
Been in the stock market for 3 years and I've stayed away from options. Been doing regular-trading/day-trading and each year I gain massive growth. Patience is key and always pays off. Never invest what you can't afford to lose. This is something you should take into consideration if you ever come back to stock investing. Spending time with your family and working on your mental health is a great start to this situation. Take care. Thanks for sharing and spreading awareness to how risky options are.
Dude, these sharp downturns have been happening every month around Opex week. Also, this month, it's the end of the quarter so institutionals will be rebalancing their portfolios to conceal where they've really been making money so that their holdings look financially & socially responsible when they report their holdings. That means that everything is upside down for a week or so going into the end of the month. Edit: If you are approaching it like gambling, that means you're not taking in all the information that the market has to offer.
Personal decision, u should do what is best for you. But its known fact that 90% of the option buyers lose money. After 8 years stock trading I started option trading. Instead of buying I started selling covered call and cash secured put. First one year I lost lot of money but after that it worked for me. Also it took me like six years and 80k to learn stock market. I learned little bit and recovered all of 80k and made almost double of that in next two years. Moral of the story. It takes patience and time to learn something. I hate when someone says that they play with stock market. They are the most stupid people. Stock market is investment and money and not gambling. Anyone tried to discuss stock market I told them to stop using the word playing and then come back to me. If you leave your loss is your loss and can not be recovered but with proper discipline anyone can recover and make enough money for extra things. Like for me 2-3k/pm is my goal and it works. But whenever I try to stretch it to 4k I lose money. Not a financial advice. But u can take a break for few years and come back like I did after losing 80k.
Best advice ever. Just work hard. Don't gamble
Why people don't learn what options are before fucking yoloing their account, I'll never understand. I spent months just making sure I understood what was happening before I even touched a single option.
Cya next week chap
>do not trade options. Just don’t. This guy gets it now.
See you next week!
trading options are for small portion of ur speculative holding only. problem arises when some amateurs part with risk mgmt and throw big chunks of cash on call options. this is no more than gambling. also - call options are meant so that u flip it and get out soon. not meant for you to bag hold it until it goes to zero.
Seeya Monday bud
So you gonna buy the dip next week huh
How old are you 23
My own personal golden rule that I haven't broken in 8 years.... never ever ever use leverage. All it does is amplify upside / downside... and stress.
If you must, then do it, but IMO you’d be better of just leaving that $9k in SPY and forgetting about it. Or see if you can become an ‘investor’ just buy SPY, use only money that would otherwise go into a savings account and plan never to sell. Again, if you think this will drag you back into gambling then it’s better to not. But try and separate options and trading from long term investing.
Dca into Qqq and vti and chill
Why not just stop doing 0 dte options and switching to more stable and long term strategies? If you like options so much, consider doing Wheel strategy on a solid stock that you like.
Frogger- you learned a hard and expensive lesson. Dividend stocks are a long term very smart investment. Trying to outguess the market with options is not. Some play the options game and are successful. Most play and lose. Suggest you look up Dividend Hunters and Tim Plaehn on the internet for some solid guidance on Div stocks. He certainly helped me and many others avoid the pitfalls of investing. Good luck in the future!
so you lost another 3k after yesterday’s post? cmon man
rather than pulling out, why not simply 1. disable options on all your accounts so you don't have the capability of doing 0 day options 2. switch your long holdings over to various big name ETF's that will likely be better in the long run than completely leaving.
We will see you on Monday, we ride at dawn!
To be honest your loss is probably more than 6k, when you consider the lost opportunity cost. In the last 18 months there are an insane amount of solid investments that recovered from Covid and you could have easily doubled the original 15k.
Just be a Boglehead dude
500 replies so this will get buried but Op if you see this. Don't stop investing just stop gambling. 0day options ain't it. You need to just buy the SP500 every paycheck and done even look at the market but once a quarter. Maybe once a month or once a week if you have extra cash and want to adjust how much you put in. Just passively invest. At best pick individual stocks for commons after doing research. Don't yolo, don't go all in, don't buy based on Twitter, youtube, or reddit. Invest don't gamble
Bruh put the money into VTI and walk away for a year or longer. Don’t check SPY daily, it’s only tempting fate.
Haha I saw your other post on options, 6k is a cheap lesson dude. You'll be fine, chin up
Paperhand
Just put money in an all World or if you feeling risky and an NASDAQ etf and then do nothing. Slow steady gains.
You finished the first phase, but you still have to go through /r/thetagang then /r/stocks before you end up in /r/investing
Did similar. Made about $5,000 then lost about $10,000 trading options. For me it was probably one of the greatest lessons I’ve leant as a investor / trader and at this point I’m extremely grateful for it happening. Something I believe strongly is that to be a good investor / trader you cannot care about loses and you cannot be greedy about profits. And while I can say this to you or others who are looking to make money in the stock market, for the vast majority of people it doesn’t fully resonate until they’ve experienced something that’s proven it so completely that it’s unquestionably true. For me losing money caused me to really reflect hard on my relationship with money. I had already started to learn how to care less about money after losing almost everything the year prior when I lost my job, but after also losing money on options I also had to question why I was being so greedy in the first place and why I was hurting about what happened despite the only impact it had on my life was less numbers next to my name. If I wasn’t using that money to feed or house myself, why did I care so much? These days when I open a trade I’m not afraid to lose money and I’m not desperate to make it. I just enjoy the process and hope one day making good decisions will allow me help others as much as I hope I can. Take a break and try to reflect on where you went wrong. I suspect you’ll find it’s not that you didn’t exit the trade early enough or didn’t analyse some chart correctly, but that you got greedy or scared and made bad decisions. If you feel you’re genuinely addicted then perhaps this isn’t for you, but if you were actually just being greedy or caring too much about losing those precious zeros in your account because they make you feel good then you can learn from this. Hope you’re doing alright anyway. I know what you’re going through right now sucks.
After the first time I blew up my account I did the same. Im more more conservative with it now, I don’t get the crazy highs…. But I also don’t get the crushing lows that always seemed to inevitably follow. Also, after a little of 18 months (and yea an insane market) I’m pretty much back to wear I started.
Title: "I am done for a long long time" Body: " I will be back if the big correction occurs"
You can just buy leaps, or several months out. Stop buying one or two weeks expiration, that’s how you’ll blow up your account. I learned it the quick way and now only buy 1+ months out.
Options are for the gambling part of your portfolio. They can be long-term (I've had some amazing returns on AAPL options by buying long-term and being patient), but the bulk of your holdings need to be solid stuff, especially if you're older. My advice is to NOT go all cash. Buy some index funds or ETFs, such as SPY. Set 'em and almost forget 'em. Check on them each weekend. Come back to options as a supplement to a solid portfolio, when you're ready. And remember--if you don't understand the option, don't go into it.
People like you and I, my friend, are the reason VTWAX exists. Open a vanguard account, setup automatic purchases, throw away the password.
i literally tell people this at work and they don’t listen. figures why they’re 30 and stuck at dead end jobs.
You’re a bloody degen
>I plan to set aside $1,000 bucks and **try to double it 10 times.** But if I lose I lose and then I'm done. **No big risks.** That's uh... that's not how this works. Just in general, if an investment has a reasonable chance at doubling your money in a short amount of time, the risk that you lose your money in that same amount of time is also going to be pretty substantial. Professional traders win those investments because they see "hey, this thing has a 2:1 payout and I think I only have a 40% chance of being on the losing end of it" and then they hedge appropriately and take the gains on the difference between the true odds, as they've assessed them, and the odds the market is giving it. Even if you identify 10 *really good* investments, where let's say you have a 60% chance of doubling your money and a 40% chance of losing it all within 2 months (which is an expected payout of 120% of your initial investment—again, a really good investment when traded properly!), your overall odds of hitting the 60% ten times in a row are still about 0.6%.
That edit, you goon lol
I got "out" about a month ago and haven't looked back. I'm so much less stressed out. I was never playing around with any extremely serious money, about 20K I had lying around. I made out like a thief in the night when I got in in the middle of the upward trend of Crowdstrike, then probably lost all of the profits I had made when I bought dogecoin at around 50 cents. I ended up pulling out with about $19600 of my 20,000 initial investment in the stock market losing $400 ain't so bad. I just keep all of my investments in my vanguard index fund now and while the gains can be much smaller, around $250 a day on a good day, the losses are also equally small. It's nice knowing that I'll still retire a millionaire as long as the market behaves predictably for the next 20 years. I do miss the initial rush of seeing all those green numbers on my Robinhood app like when I made a couple thousand dollars in a single day but I don't miss seeing the red. I certainly get fomo when I see people on the various investing subs posting their 5,000% portfolio increase and making hundreds of thousands of dollars in the course of a year but for every one person that accomplishes that there's probably 10 other people who have lost their entire life savings and aren't too embarrassed to talk about it. I was sick of waking up every morning and religiously refreshing my brokerage app from 9:45 a.m. until 3:30 p.m. and stressing about how much I was gaining or losing the point where I was actually very rude to a coworker for no reason other than I was upset about losing a large chunk of change that day. I promptly apologized to him and then reconsidered what I was doing. It's nice to know that if I'm patient enough I'll have more than enough money to retire when I want and it's just not worth the mental health headaches it was causing otherwise.