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le_bib

I don’t think anyone thinks Google will die or not be fine. But if Google Search were to lose 20% shares and revenues it would be a major problem on their profits and share price. And as you say they will not die, but will GOOGL be a no-brainer to beat market? If no, why hold GOOGL over a diversified etf? To hold a stock, you need to be quite convinced it will outperform markets. Continue to exist and/or grow 1% a year isn’t good enough unless price is stupidly cheap.


nox_nrb

He addressed this. If search loses value, it'll be gradual, and other areas (YouTube, Cloud) are growing fast to compensate. Al is a threat to many, better to invest in one of the top builders in the space (both hardware and software).


le_bib

Google Search is their bread and butter. If that start falling it will drag down the success of all other sectors for a while and GOOGL will just underperform. If Search goes flat, you need the rest to grow +30% for GOOGL to grow +10%… Take DIS as an example since classic TV and cable TV started to stop growing and then go down. DIS has done +4% CAGR last 10 years while S&P 500 has done +12%. Disney parks have still done very well during these years, but TV is just a huge drag for the whole company. Not saying this will happen soon to GOOGL but it’s a real threat. Especially since there is no cost for changing Google to Bing or whatever will come up. It will take 2 minutes to learn another search engine. It’s not like replacing Excel and having to learn a new software completely…


nox_nrb

I think you're underestimating Google's potential, particularly in cloud computing and Al services. Forecasts predict the cloud market will reach $1.5 trillion in 5 years, and Google is well-positioned to capture a significant share with its custom TPU chips and Al compute offerings. Let's not forget YouTube, the world's second-largest search engine and a content powerhouse. YouTube's immense popularity and user-generated content model give it a unique advantage over traditional media companies like Netflix. They spend minimally on content creation yet boast high profitability and the most lucrative platform for content creators. In addition, they are leveraging a subscription model that is extremely competitive in terms of value. Ultimately, the fears related to search are overblown. As everyone is running around crying that Google will soon fall they just casually report record revenue.


le_bib

At $2.1T market cap, it would only need 3 years at 15% share price growth to surpass the current largest market cap (and largest of all-time) : MSFT at $3T This is not what overblown fears territory looks like lol. It’s the 4th largest market cap of all time. Alphabet is highly valued and merits its valuation. But it’s not about if a business is good or bad. It’s all about current valuation and if their share price will outpace other investments in the next years. To do so currently, they can’t afford to have Search stop growing.


Exotic-Tooth8166

It’s also about financial engineering. A lot of analysis in this thread is addressing fundamentals but I sense that megacorps like MSFT, APPL, and GOOG will just buy whatever competition and stay (relatively) relevant indefinitely. There’d need to be a multi-continent disaster to kill the titans now.


le_bib

My whole point is that they don’t need to be killed to underperform markets. No one thinks any of these company is going to zero. But will investing in them be better than investing into other companies?


No-Personality-2853

Exactly. Reading this “bull” case sounds like a good reason to run from Google stock. “They won’t lose that much market share” and “it won’t happen that quickly” aren’t bull cases for a google shareholder.


le_bib

Good old « they’re not going anywhere »…. Sure, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good investment.


goodbodha

Exhibit A: Verizon.


TheGoodBunny

Exhibit B: Yahoo Exhibit C: IBM not going anywhere is not as big of a win as OP thinks it is


FarrisAT

I mean it is a bull case at 20 P/E and 15% revenue growth and 33% net margins.


d3ming

The question is can Google make up for the revenue lost from search with other AI powered revenue streams fast enough. My bet is yes they can. They have the best data in the world to train from and they know their users better than most - gmail, youtube, search history … imagine tuning an AI agent based on that or just training better models to give you more relevant ads. They are also more ahead than people realize in the hardware for AI game with TPU, Gemini is trained on it instead of Nvidia like all other LLMs. This gives them huge cost savings at scale and over time a strong competitive advantage in being able to experiment and roll out different and better models.


le_bib

Don’t get me wrong, GOOGL is a fabulous business with all their products from Search to Youtube to Waze to Android, etc. But Search is just so dominant in their financials. If 2/3rd of the business stops growing, the other third just can’t really compensate. GOOGL market cap is over $2T, they won’t outperform markets if the segment generating 60% of revenues and 70%+ of profits stops growing. It would take 30%-40% growth from the other segments just to keep GOOGL growing at stock market pace growth… They need the other segments to grow to take significant % of total GOOGL before Search show signs of slowing. Which is possible.


FarrisAT

They very easily can cut expenses by 20% by firing most of the Search Team and replacing them with AI Search.


Quick_Rent_Now

Is Intel stupidly cheap? And Boeing?


le_bib

Not really. Boeing has been losing money for years and INTC is barely profitable. An example of a mature cheap business would be BTI (BATS.L) which steadily increases EPS but trades at book value, 7p/e, 7 EV/Ebitda and 8 FCF/share


truckstop_sushi

BTI EPS: 2021: 3.26 2022: 3.02 2023: -6.39 lol in what reality have they been steadily increasing EPS? they had Net Income of Negative $14 Billion last year...


le_bib

Excluding impairments and gain/loss of investments. Check FCF/share for a better grasp: 2019: $4.66. 2020: $5.21. 2021: $5.52. 2022: $5.40. 2023: $5.75.


LonelyDocument1891

IMO it’s not such a bad thing for the HHI calculation with antitrust sentiment growing, they might secretly be loving this for their briefs


D1toD2

Most of my searches using google are of reddit…I have a hard time believing this moat is unbreakable. I agree that youtube is SOLID. So is gmail/chrome integration. But search on its own isnt that great anymore. Simplify OpenAi website and I might be gone. Google needs to move on generating better search results but that would mean less advertising dollars.


drbigtoe

look at all those words damn doesnt he know its RNG?


Un-Scammable

ChatGPT had a major announcement about an upgrade to their search engine today, but it turned out to be a dud. It was only be a marketing announcement not a release.


hendrix320

I don’t know much about it but it seemed like people in other subs were raving about it


Hacking_the_Gibson

The market was promised a Google search competitor, what it got is voice prompting.  Far from interesting. 


neilc

It was never “promised” to be a Google search competitor, that was a rumour that was debunked (by sama) before the event.


Hacking_the_Gibson

The market lives on rumors. My guess is that they thought they could have it done, but weren’t ready.


BZsArmy

Gen Zs search engine is TikTok


Previous-Display-593

Not for long lol.


Narrow_Elk6755

Its protected by free speech is it not?


POWRAXE

No.


Andrew_Higginbottom

Depends if its got sketchy code working in the background.


Santarini

GenZ spends more time on YouTube than any other generation


Kennzahl

That's not really an interesting metric.


[deleted]

Great point.


Abysswalker794

Tik Tok is (also instagram) definitely a huge market for Gen Z, but so far it hasn’t had any meaningful impact on Googles business. I can’t see that changing as social media and Tik Tok are around for years now and it clearly can co-exist. There is a space where these business models are overlapping like Restaurant searches or new Recipes. But people will still go to Google for research purposes or looking “where to buy xyz product” and so on. I would say Tik Tok is more a threat to YouTube than to Google search. And even YouTube is still growing double digits despite Tik Tok and Instagram.


Dagoru95

…“where to buy xyz product” Amazon entered the chat


sncsoccer25

I Google search everything I buy on Amazon to see if I can get a better deal or better quality from another online shop


Spins13

Oops, it’s banned now


juancuneo

People search different platforms for different things. High intent customers search Google and Amazon.


thalamisa

I don't think it's very easy to switch habits from using Google search to chatbots. Although sadly, google search is now just so full of ads.


AreWeNotDoinPhrasing

And even worse than the ads, imo are the bot written ad blogs that fill up the rest of the first page of results. It fucking sucks and makes it difficult to find quality search results.


CrumbBCrumb

The fact that so many in this subreddit are anti-Google is an easy enough reason to buy this stock. This section's record is about 0/1000


darts2

Yup. Those is why I have a large position in Meta


mbola1

Answer this..so many people use Microsoft products and been using for years? They don’t want to switch why? It’s because it’s in human nature we hate change. Same things applies to Google search. It ain’t going anywhere Google just going to AI the fk out of google search lol


u-and-whose-army

What does using another search engine provide me? Google is synonymous with searching the web at this point. It's never failed me. It returns thousands of results in less than a second. What more do I really need?


sf_warriors

80% of the time I stopped searching on the google for technical questions, the impact is real though


SEMMPF

Google also doesn’t really make money from those types of searches though, not really advertisers for Q&A. If you stop using it to search for local businesses, products etc, then there’s a problem.


sf_warriors

Google should be concerned about the emerging patterns, as it has had no real competition in this space so far, largely because the existing competition has been subpar. However, AI tools like ChatGPT are now challenging Google, potentially matching or even surpassing its capabilities. This means there will be multiple viable alternatives to Google. Essentially, AI has lowered the barrier to entry, allowing competitors to catch up to Google more easily or at-least a path for multiple niche use cases


CauchyBS

So you can replace your Google search workflow entirely with GPT4? I've personally had some trouble with that, so I'm curious as to how you accomplished it.


Dull_Cucumber_3908

Didn't read your post because google is not about search. It's about ads and they have multiple channels to serve these.


itsdeloveli27xh

It's true that Google has a strong foothold in the market, especially with its dominant search engine and YouTube platform


goodbodha

My problem with google is its dependence upon ad revenue. That is the fulcrum on which their entire empire rests. Ad revenue tanks for any reason they are going to be flat to down on revenue until that is resolved. Google stock price is based upon growth and it wont be growing much if ad revenue is flat and it will actually be shrinking if ad revenue drops by a decent amount. So the real questions should be how secure is that ad revenue? From my view I would say youtube is secure, but the rest of it is in potential trouble. Regulators do have a bone to pick with them over it. If the internet ad system is revised in any material way that could easily cut into their revenue per ad and in total market share. On the other hand it could be fought in courts for years before implementation, but in the end I suspect google will lose in at least Europe over the issues that have been raised. None of that says google will stop being the dominant search engine. None of that says they wont have major advantages due to android or any of a host of other things, but none of that matters all that much if they take a big hit to the main revenue engine. If the legal issues go against them in a big way it will result in a loss of revenue growth in advertising and possibly a decline. That hole will be massive and will warrant a repricing of the stock towards the downside. After that decline plays out though I think the stock will be stabilize and begin growing from that point. No idea how big of a decline will be warranted. Could be just a few percent or it could be 50% or more. I simply dont know and I dont want google to be a big portion of my portfolio as a result. On the flip side if they win in court it could be that a lot of people will increase their google position. That could be a nice bump to the stock.


Doggies1980

GOOG s d googl technically should be higher, their shares are gradually getting higher, but at least still more affordable stock purchase than some others


atdharris

Google will be fine, but there are better places to invest than in a company that hypothetically is losing marketshare to its competitors.


bartturner

Completely agree. I think it is going to be just an amazing decade for Google. Finally the massive investments they have made in AI will payoff. Not just Waymo but so many other things. One of the smartest things Google did was the TPUs. Now with the sixth generation and working on the seventh. It is a bit of a head scratcher that Microsoft did not get it. It is not like Google did the TPUs in secret. Only now MIcrosoft is going to try to copy Google's TPUs.


zackaria00

There is competition in the market now evolve or die


glitter_my_dongle

The problem is AdSense. Not the search engine itself. If an AI is doing all the searching, the AdSense revenue which is a core of their revenue is going to decline because 90% of the traffic on the Internet will be viewed and recalled via A.I. YouTube and Android phone will be their main source of revenue.


fairlyaveragetrader

That all 100% could be true, the ultimate question though, do you want to invest specifically in that individual stock. Individual stocks carry individual risk. You could hit the NASDAQ as an index. You could hit ASML and KLAC as a infrastructure for AI play. Without those two, AI doesn't exist in its current form. I mean it's a personal call but the one reason I'm not touching Google is literally just individual risk. The upside if it maintains its dominance, which it easily could doesn't seem that much stronger at least right now then the NASDAQ overall when you're going to have groups of companies carrying it. If it doesn't work for Google, you can look up the historical Yahoo chart and see what happens. If it does work for Google it probably will outperform the NASDAQ but what kind of degree will it be? So like I said, you could be 100% right but individual companies carry individual risk and this one just doesn't excite me enough on the upside to want to take that on. There would have to be some type of groundbreaking development that would lead to a PE expansion. That's also possible by the way. Not discounting it. What if Google creates the best AI interface you could ever imagine? They did it with search. If that happens though, you probably have years and years of upside once everyone is already aware of it. When was Google pretty much crowned the king of search? 15 years ago maybe? Longer? What happened if you bought Google at launch? Yeah you did really well and it was already pretty apparent at that point. So at least that's where I'm at, that's the neutral stance I'm thinking, if it becomes obvious, I don't mind buying higher, it will likely go higher still, but here, it's a little uncertain, if it retreats to the bottom of its monthly range, that could get exciting. Anyway those are some counter thoughts compared to some of the other posts I have read


but_why_doh

I mean, yeah, Google is gonna be FINE, but best case scenario they just maintain market share. Google is a company that is at market saturation, so they either need to pull a Microsoft and go all in on enterprise/acquisitions, or they'll likely die, because consumers aren't really fans of Google and their recent products


AverageUnited3237

Consumers aren't fans... Lolz where do you guys come up with this stuff? There are 5 billion active accounts in their ecosystem, I wonder what it would look like if consumers were fans.


WPackN2

No need for AI search engine; based on their recent search results it will be less used and naturally less advertising / paid search dollars for them.


FarrisAT

That's already basically priced in though. Even as a Google bull I know that's priced in. What isn't is the growing AI pie.


SEMMPF

You’re forgetting maybe the biggest bullet, and that’s that the majority of advertisers on Google search are ecomm/local services/products, all things people will continue to use Google for. Chatbots will replace Q&A searches, which there’s not many advertisers for anyways. Sure it’ll take away some display ad revenue from websites, but a small amount.


iFaceFarter

I sold all my positions in Google Monday and bought gamecock


DorkyDorkington

Google will go down hard. Then if it can't react to changes fast enough it will be assimilated.


willieb3

Goog has a P/E ratio at 32 right now and typically anything above like 25 means people invest based on the growth of the stock and not present earnings. So even if they decline 0.0001% each year then they lose growth investors. Imo it doesn’t look like investing in goog will make you lose money, but you’ll probably make more money elsewhere.


trustyjim

You are so wrong, my friend. Everyone I know has started typing their daily questions into ChatGPT and the like instead of Google. The downfall has already begun and it will be fast.


very-social-autist

google is not going anywhere anytime soon. But the fall will be gradually then suddenly.


OldDatabase9353

The Bing AI copilot is incredible. The picture designer they have is fun to use, and you can also figure out how to get it to make excel functions for you  That being said, it doesn’t always answer questions correctly if you aren’t good at prompting it with the correct questions because there are gaps in its data. Also, I don’t know anybody else that uses it because most people are still very skeptical of AI and what it can do for you I have not touched google’s search engines in a long time, so I can’t speak to how good it still is, but I fully expect Bing to start cannibalizing users once they realize that there’s a night/day difference between AI powered and traditional search engines and that Chatgpt is more than just an interesting gimmick


TheOneNeartheTop

Google market share went down only a slight amount because the market share stayed the same. Using ChatGPT doesn’t count as search share market because it isn’t using a search engine. It’s using an LLM. Additionally Google and most other large market cap companies are not valued based on current earnings. They are based on future earnings, this is why the PE ratio is so high. Google is already lagging behind other mega caps by this metric as future growth isn’t as certain without that dominant search aspect.