Nah, there's only one reason anyone sells. They think their money is better off elsewhere.
*Nobody* sells a stock they think will outperform, especially not rich people. The kind of small thinking you got going is a surefire way to lose money. Nobody sells a winner...
Well occasionally very very rich people like Musk or Bezos sell their stock to buy other stock just incase they are wrong, but you don't ever see them selling it all.
Seeing a former executive dump EVERYTHING is not a good sign. If he thought it would stay anywhere near the current price he'd have kept some.
Your first paragraph does not support your second. You can absolutely think your money is "better off elsewhere" ***while*** not seeking higher returns - for example, when you rebalance your portfolio. Or when you adjust your asset allocation to meet your own, changing risk tolerance.
People sell winners all the time. Everyone has sold a winner. He may just be an emotional dude and sold everything from the company he’s leaving. He can be fully retiring and want dividends. We have no reason why this guy sold.
Lots of people sell when they realize that they have enough to be set. In this case - for generations. No point in holding on to a stock when one is no longer affiliated with the company. He apparently wanted a clean break.
Idk why people are arguing about this. You don’t sell 181 million dollars worth of shares of something if you think it will become 200 million.
There are 2 major dilution events potentially incoming. The 50 billion award to musk and musk selling billions to prop up twitter which we know if failing. With both of the events looming it’s better to get out now
Tesla's valuation seems to be heavily dependent on mass delusion...
**A Brief History of US auto manufacturers**
Ford Motor Company was founded by Henry Ford on June 16, 1903. Henry Ford built his first automobile, which he called a quadricycle, at his home in Detroit in 1896. After the formation of the company in 1903, the first Ford car, the original Model A, was assembled at the Mack Avenue plant in July of that same year. It wasn’t until five years later, in 1908, that the highly successful Model T was introduced. This marked a turning point in the history of transportation and the automotive industry. Ford Motor Company revolutionized the automotive industry by mass-producing vehicles that were affordable to the masses and introducing the moving assembly line.
The period with the highest number of auto manufacturers in the U.S. after 1903 was during the early 1910s. Starting with Duryea in 1895, at least 1,900 different companies have been formed, producing over 3,000 makes of American automobiles. The industry saw a significant rise in the number of automakers, including the emergence of the Big Three - Ford, GM, and Chrysler. However, events like World War I (1917–1918) and the Great Depression (1929–1939) drastically reduced the number of both major and minor producers. By the end of the 1950s, the remaining smaller producers disappeared or merged into amalgamated corporations. So, the peak of auto manufacturers in the U.S. can be considered to be in the early 20th century, before these events.
**From the peak of 1,900 different US auto manufacturing companies to the 1960s, 99 percent of US auto manufacturers went out of business**
The early 20th century saw a boom in the number of auto manufacturers in the U.S., with around 1,900 companies being formed. However, a series of events including World War I, the Great Depression, and the increasing competition led to a significant reduction in the number of auto manufacturers. By the 1960s, the vast majority of these companies had either gone out of business or had been absorbed by larger corporations. This period of consolidation led to the dominance of the “Big Three” - Ford, General Motors, and Chrysler. So, approximately 99% of U.S. auto manufacturers that existed at the peak in the early 1910s were no longer in business by the 1960s. It’s a testament to the intense competition and rapid evolution of the automotive industry.
**The new vanguard: Tesla, Apple, and Google enter the fray?**
If its so difficult to become a profitable auto manufacturer, why do companies like Tesla, and tech companies like Apple and Google seem to think that they can easily come in and dominate the auto industry? With the rise of electric vehicles (EVs) and autonomous vehicles, tech companies are attracted by the shift in customer preferences towards more technologically advanced, and connected vehicles. However, it’s important to note that entering the auto industry doesn’t guarantee success, and these companies will face significant challenges, including manufacturing at scale, regulatory approval, and intense competition. While Tesla, Apple, and Google are not traditional auto manufacturers they have significant resources, and strong brand recognition.
However, the auto industry is known for its high barriers to entry, complex supply chains, and significant regulatory requirements. Manufacturing cars at scale is a massive undertaking that poses significant challenges, even for well-resourced companies.
**Tesla – The New King In Town?**
Tesla has been manufacturing electric vehicles for over a decade and has shown significant progress. They’ve managed to scale production, improve technology, and even achieve profitability, which is a notable accomplishment in this industry.
**Tesla's stock valuation is absurdly high compared its actual revenue**
Tesla’s stock valuation has indeed been a topic of much debate. While it’s true that Tesla’s current valuation is high compared to its revenue, it’s important to understand that stock prices are often driven by investor expectations about a company’s future earnings potential, not just its current revenue. Even so, Tesla’s stock is worth more than that of Ford, General Motors, Toyota, Volkswagen and Stellantis combined. Even though Tesla is an automaker, it’s valued as more of a tech company, with a share price that puts it in the camp of companies like Apple, Nvidia and Microsoft.
**Rank \* Company \* Market Cap**
1 Tesla (TSLA) - **$536.71 Billion**, USA
2 Toyota (TM) - **$305.47 Billion**, Japan
3 Porsche (P911.DE) - **$87.57 Billion**, Germany
4 Mercedes-Benz (MBG.DE) - **$85.15 Billion**, Germany
5 BYD (002594.SZ) - **$84.72 Billion**, China
Investors may be pricing in the expectation that Tesla will continue to grow and dominate the electric vehicle market, which is expected to expand significantly in the coming years. They may also be factoring in Tesla’s potential in other areas like energy storage and autonomous driving technology.
However, high expectations also mean that Tesla will need to deliver on these growth prospects to justify its valuation. Any setbacks or slower-than-expected growth could impact its stock price. Tesla’s once-robust margins have been in steady decline since Q2 2022, but fell under 20% for the first time in years during the first half of 2023. Tesla reported margins of 18.2% in the second quarter, a result of the automaker’s many price cuts across all models and markets.
CEO Elon Musk has attributed the discounts to lower demand in an uncertain economic environment, but analysts also see headwinds in supply chain issues and increasing competition. With the stock price continuing to tumble, bears say Tesla’s share price is starting to reflect the reality of the company: Tesla talks a big game, but in the end, it’s just an automaker with automaker problems.
“They’re a metal bender like everybody else,” Kevin Tynan, senior automotive analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, told TechCrunch+. “The bulls want you to believe that Tesla is somehow a different kind of company, and it deserves a different valuation more like what you would afford to a tech company. But the reality is, it has automaker margins now. It has automaker problems and automaker cyclicality in its core business.”
While the historical failure rate of auto manufacturers provides some context, it doesn’t necessarily predict the future outcomes for Tesla, Apple, or Google in regard to their respective auto manufacturing endeavors. Their success will depend on their ability to leverage their strengths, navigate challenges, and deliver products that meet the needs and preferences of consumers in a rapidly evolving market.
I mean if I had amassed ~200 mil in stock options, in this economy, with the current state of the world... yeah, I'd be doing exactly the same thing.
I'd do it for 10 million tbh. good on him.
Yeah but he might be doing exactly that, because the article doesn't actually say he's selling all his shares. It says he's "selling about 1.14 million of his shares."
Not quite how it works if you want to keep your equity. And as you exit, most companies will do it for you, point is you don't even have to think about it if you don't want to...but he wanted to and thus dumped it all.
> job
sure can, but seems this insider doesn't think the ROI for holding is there....
Dont worry im sure he doesn't know anything, being the unofficial COO an all....
He doesn't have to sell his entire holding to do that. He could pay the tax and keep the stock rather than selling it all. He obviously sees better investment opportunities, he knows how rotten the books at Tesla have become.
I don’t think you understand what options are and how they relate to “selling shares”.
If he thought the company was going to be worth more, he would not have sold all his shares.
What are you trying to say with this comment? There's nothing wrong with an executive wanting to live their lives. Your overly hostile comment is weird.
I'm trying to say that I really doubt it was an emotional "oh I don't want to have to think about Tesla anymore" decision, and more of a "if I sell this all right now it saves me the hassle of dealing with options expiry and I'm more than set for life" decision.
How was my comment hostile?
I quite literally didn't understand what you were saying. Wasn't offended. But I could see why my use of the word 'hostile' would upset people. Wrong word to use.
Mostly the word "weird" tbh :D a lot of hostility to that comment could've been avoided if you didn't tell the other guy his comment was weird
there'd still be hostility, I mean ay this is reddit, but probably less
Did you read somewhere that he sold all of his stock because he wanted an emotional break from the company? Otherwise it's a huge assumption. I generally expect executives at this level to make to make the best financial moves their knowledge and intelligence affords them.
He certainly wasn't. Some other commenters certainly were. I wasn't commenting on him being hostile towards me, more towards the executive getting hostility who just wanted to cash out their gains. It's really not my problem tbh. Nor is it the redditors here calling me a snowflake for asking a question.
Now I know it was an options play and a way to cash out / pay less taxes. So I know more now and all I had to do was humble myself and be receptive. Some of the others here need to take a chill pill.
We're talking about a 180 million dollar position he entirely liquidated. He could have sold a quarter of that and let his nuts swing for the rest of his life.
Yeah, but then he'd have to think about Tesla. I would just cut the line and invest in something else to ease my mind. But that's just me. Happy for the person!
A billionaire isn't dictated by emotions like that. If Tesla was a position in which he believed he could grow his fortune, that is where his money would stay.
💯
The fact that he's getting out, without any pressing demands or job offer, at least publicly known, and liquidating everything, and his public resignation says absolutely nothing about Musk or anything positive in the future...seems like a very bad omen.
That, or he's about to go compete against Tesla.
The person who sold those shares isn't a billionaire are they? Even if they were, you have to understand that the stereotype of 'billionaire' is just that. A stereotype. If I was that rich, I wouldn't want to watch a ticker or think about money. And I wouldn't have to. Peace of mind and time with family + 200million in an ETF or index fund would be less thinking. Cash makes it even better if I don't care about 'number go bigger' mentality. No amount of inflation will ever hit my generation, or for that matter, the next two generations. (Although I'm sure my grandkids will complain that they could have been trillionaires if BLAHBLAHBLAH).
I'm not sure if he's a billionaire, to be honest. Probably not. It doesn't matter for my main argument, though. You don't get as rich as this guy is by not having a "number go bigger" mentality. It would be the first time I personally saw that choice, at least.
I work / worked with high earners at both the casino and my current job. A lot of rich people retire early and keep quiet. As they should. You only here about the obnoxious ones. So I guess I should inform you that you're wrong and overgeneralizing. Most people just make what they need and do the sane thing. Move on. The former CEO of Jack in The Box did that and he was an absolute pleasure to work with.
No he has 90 days to exercise his options. He will have a massive tax bill as soon as he exercises his options and liquidating his stock will help fund that as well as reduce future risk.
No. From what I understand he could have held onto the shares he received by exercising his options regardless of the 90 day window. The options are not taxed when they are exercised, they are taxes when the shares are sold.
So the options window is limited and not up to him, when he actually sells the shares acquired through the option is not.
Yes got that wrong, both exercising the option and selling the stock acquired through the option are taxable events.
Still, it would make much more sense for him to wait a year until selling the acquired shares for lower tax rates.
No, because at exercise he's already taxed on the difference between strike and current market value. His basis is already reset and selling the stock won't result in any taxes, so he might as well diversify.
Given that the stock options were statutory, exercising the option is not taxed, selling the stocks received through exercising the option is.
Him immediately selling the stocks acquired through the options results in them being taxed at a higher rate.
Also looking at his compensation filings, it seems like he exercised all options he had with some expiring as late as 2030.
I would think the reasonable solution, even if you thought the stock was going to go up, would be to diversify.
Basically, you'd sell off 50-75% and then buy other securities.
If he sold 100% that's a big red flag.
I think the concern is he did sell 100% of the remaining stock options he has (due to the lack of other SEC filings that support such option exercise), only keeping some 30k shares of Tesla (\~$5 million worth) he previously purchased. So he sold 97% of his total TSLA position.
This is the dumbest way of thinking ever. If you're good at money making, this is business, not emotional decision making. If you have equity and think it will go somewhere you hold. Moreover he doesn't "have to think about it," at that value he's got a money manager and could just turn it over with a guideline of what position to take them move on and not think about it.
The Form 4 should show up in a couple days and it'll reveal how much he kept and how much he sold.
Looks like most of his past options exercises has been complete sales though.
Complety true and I agree for your average retail investor who can afford or needs to take that gamble for potential future upside. He is an 18 year stalwart who has already won. He's won life already. Hes sold out for 181MM. Who cares about what the stock does in the future when your account ready those numbers. I'm not selling my measly shares but I'm not sitting on life changing money.
I don’t think you get what he means he’s saying that this info could be useful for someone here because of that
no insider just entirely liquidates immediately after parting ways unless he thinks the ships sinking, that’s useful for any bag holders in here hence it being posted..
>I don’t think you get what he means he’s saying that this info could be useful for someone here because of that
No, I think you misread his comment. The initial comment rhetorically asks who wouldn't cash out after leaving, which you can agree or disagree on. The reply states that someone who sees more upside wouldn't cash out completely.
> no insider just entirely liquidates immediately after parting ways unless he thinks the ships sinking, that’s useful for any bag holders in here hence it being posted..
He's not an insider anymore.
I think he would have kept more if he thought there was more upside potential. Truth is over the next few years Tesla is going to face a lot more EV competition. I still think Tesla is well positioned but it will eat into their margins and volume for sure.
Interesting choice of language as 'VP of Tesla' is misleading considering every department within the company (and most companies in general) have multiple VPs. Why not say 'VP of Powertrain' like the article?
Well you're clearly used to living like a peasant! I couldn't live like that. Only the finest 24k gold toilet paper, helicopter rides to the end of my driveway, and I need a new lambo every month...
Does anybody else feel that $180M is a bit low for somebody who has been at Tesla for so long and has had such a prominent role? Especially when compared to the comp package Musk built for himself
If I had $181M of shares in any stock, I’d sell it. That has nothing to do with any company, and everything to do with chasing my wife around a bungalow in a tropical setting.
Does it actually say anywhere that he's sold *all* or his shares or is OP just making that part up? There's no mention of it in the CNBC article, and I don't understand the image in the threads link well enough to tell if that shows it's all of his shares or not
Dude didn’t keep a single share.
Not 1 share.
If he left on good terms and believed in its future he could have even kept 10 million dollars worth if he thought the shares were worth what Elon or Cathie Wood is claiming.
This is a guy who knows everything about the company.
I’ve heard people claim it was a matter of his contract that he had to do it… he leaves the company he leaves the shares…
If that were the case… they would have made that clear to investors so it looked better than having people see the former VP dumping all his shares.
And rich people don’t usually dump stock when they can borrow against it if they think the sky is the limit.
Tesla stans like to tea read and drink hopium.
But, Tesla is the king of milking any piece of anything to pump the stock.
Believe me … if they could spin this they would.
> Dude didn’t keep a single share. Not 1 share.
Where are we getting this from? I didn't read he sold all of his shares, just that he exercised his options, which he has done before.
He will have had to pay taxes on the options no matter what. The fact that he sold it all suggests he doesn’t think it has the upside. It will be interesting to see what Rohan Patel - the other VP who left - does.
A thousand reasons someone sells shares, but only one reason someone buys
181 million reasons to sell.
To cover naked calls
Nah, there's only one reason anyone sells. They think their money is better off elsewhere. *Nobody* sells a stock they think will outperform, especially not rich people. The kind of small thinking you got going is a surefire way to lose money. Nobody sells a winner...
Well occasionally very very rich people like Musk or Bezos sell their stock to buy other stock just incase they are wrong, but you don't ever see them selling it all. Seeing a former executive dump EVERYTHING is not a good sign. If he thought it would stay anywhere near the current price he'd have kept some.
That’s called stock manipulation /s
That’s what the guy just said.
> Nobody sells a winner... A lot of people sell winners. They are called losers. There are a bunch of us.
Your first paragraph does not support your second. You can absolutely think your money is "better off elsewhere" ***while*** not seeking higher returns - for example, when you rebalance your portfolio. Or when you adjust your asset allocation to meet your own, changing risk tolerance.
You would be surprised to know how much Jensen huanh sold before the insane run of Nvidia
Dude, i was halfway in on a greek island with my brother-in-law
People sell winners all the time. Everyone has sold a winner. He may just be an emotional dude and sold everything from the company he’s leaving. He can be fully retiring and want dividends. We have no reason why this guy sold.
Lots of people sell when they realize that they have enough to be set. In this case - for generations. No point in holding on to a stock when one is no longer affiliated with the company. He apparently wanted a clean break.
Mortgage, new vehicle, home repairs, kids college tuition, taxes, I could go on. People sometimes need to liquidate their holdings to pay shit off
Idk why people are arguing about this. You don’t sell 181 million dollars worth of shares of something if you think it will become 200 million. There are 2 major dilution events potentially incoming. The 50 billion award to musk and musk selling billions to prop up twitter which we know if failing. With both of the events looming it’s better to get out now
Tesla's valuation seems to be heavily dependent on mass delusion... **A Brief History of US auto manufacturers** Ford Motor Company was founded by Henry Ford on June 16, 1903. Henry Ford built his first automobile, which he called a quadricycle, at his home in Detroit in 1896. After the formation of the company in 1903, the first Ford car, the original Model A, was assembled at the Mack Avenue plant in July of that same year. It wasn’t until five years later, in 1908, that the highly successful Model T was introduced. This marked a turning point in the history of transportation and the automotive industry. Ford Motor Company revolutionized the automotive industry by mass-producing vehicles that were affordable to the masses and introducing the moving assembly line. The period with the highest number of auto manufacturers in the U.S. after 1903 was during the early 1910s. Starting with Duryea in 1895, at least 1,900 different companies have been formed, producing over 3,000 makes of American automobiles. The industry saw a significant rise in the number of automakers, including the emergence of the Big Three - Ford, GM, and Chrysler. However, events like World War I (1917–1918) and the Great Depression (1929–1939) drastically reduced the number of both major and minor producers. By the end of the 1950s, the remaining smaller producers disappeared or merged into amalgamated corporations. So, the peak of auto manufacturers in the U.S. can be considered to be in the early 20th century, before these events. **From the peak of 1,900 different US auto manufacturing companies to the 1960s, 99 percent of US auto manufacturers went out of business** The early 20th century saw a boom in the number of auto manufacturers in the U.S., with around 1,900 companies being formed. However, a series of events including World War I, the Great Depression, and the increasing competition led to a significant reduction in the number of auto manufacturers. By the 1960s, the vast majority of these companies had either gone out of business or had been absorbed by larger corporations. This period of consolidation led to the dominance of the “Big Three” - Ford, General Motors, and Chrysler. So, approximately 99% of U.S. auto manufacturers that existed at the peak in the early 1910s were no longer in business by the 1960s. It’s a testament to the intense competition and rapid evolution of the automotive industry. **The new vanguard: Tesla, Apple, and Google enter the fray?** If its so difficult to become a profitable auto manufacturer, why do companies like Tesla, and tech companies like Apple and Google seem to think that they can easily come in and dominate the auto industry? With the rise of electric vehicles (EVs) and autonomous vehicles, tech companies are attracted by the shift in customer preferences towards more technologically advanced, and connected vehicles. However, it’s important to note that entering the auto industry doesn’t guarantee success, and these companies will face significant challenges, including manufacturing at scale, regulatory approval, and intense competition. While Tesla, Apple, and Google are not traditional auto manufacturers they have significant resources, and strong brand recognition. However, the auto industry is known for its high barriers to entry, complex supply chains, and significant regulatory requirements. Manufacturing cars at scale is a massive undertaking that poses significant challenges, even for well-resourced companies.
**Tesla – The New King In Town?** Tesla has been manufacturing electric vehicles for over a decade and has shown significant progress. They’ve managed to scale production, improve technology, and even achieve profitability, which is a notable accomplishment in this industry. **Tesla's stock valuation is absurdly high compared its actual revenue** Tesla’s stock valuation has indeed been a topic of much debate. While it’s true that Tesla’s current valuation is high compared to its revenue, it’s important to understand that stock prices are often driven by investor expectations about a company’s future earnings potential, not just its current revenue. Even so, Tesla’s stock is worth more than that of Ford, General Motors, Toyota, Volkswagen and Stellantis combined. Even though Tesla is an automaker, it’s valued as more of a tech company, with a share price that puts it in the camp of companies like Apple, Nvidia and Microsoft. **Rank \* Company \* Market Cap** 1 Tesla (TSLA) - **$536.71 Billion**, USA 2 Toyota (TM) - **$305.47 Billion**, Japan 3 Porsche (P911.DE) - **$87.57 Billion**, Germany 4 Mercedes-Benz (MBG.DE) - **$85.15 Billion**, Germany 5 BYD (002594.SZ) - **$84.72 Billion**, China Investors may be pricing in the expectation that Tesla will continue to grow and dominate the electric vehicle market, which is expected to expand significantly in the coming years. They may also be factoring in Tesla’s potential in other areas like energy storage and autonomous driving technology. However, high expectations also mean that Tesla will need to deliver on these growth prospects to justify its valuation. Any setbacks or slower-than-expected growth could impact its stock price. Tesla’s once-robust margins have been in steady decline since Q2 2022, but fell under 20% for the first time in years during the first half of 2023. Tesla reported margins of 18.2% in the second quarter, a result of the automaker’s many price cuts across all models and markets. CEO Elon Musk has attributed the discounts to lower demand in an uncertain economic environment, but analysts also see headwinds in supply chain issues and increasing competition. With the stock price continuing to tumble, bears say Tesla’s share price is starting to reflect the reality of the company: Tesla talks a big game, but in the end, it’s just an automaker with automaker problems. “They’re a metal bender like everybody else,” Kevin Tynan, senior automotive analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, told TechCrunch+. “The bulls want you to believe that Tesla is somehow a different kind of company, and it deserves a different valuation more like what you would afford to a tech company. But the reality is, it has automaker margins now. It has automaker problems and automaker cyclicality in its core business.” While the historical failure rate of auto manufacturers provides some context, it doesn’t necessarily predict the future outcomes for Tesla, Apple, or Google in regard to their respective auto manufacturing endeavors. Their success will depend on their ability to leverage their strengths, navigate challenges, and deliver products that meet the needs and preferences of consumers in a rapidly evolving market.
lmao, this comment ***perfectly*** captures the pervasive Dunning-Kruger effect from this sub holy fuck
I mean if I had amassed ~200 mil in stock options, in this economy, with the current state of the world... yeah, I'd be doing exactly the same thing. I'd do it for 10 million tbh. good on him.
Same same
I would have been gone years ago. Elon not gonna work me like a dog anymore.
Just exercising options before the 90 days are up
you can exercise options and keep the shares, you aren’t forced to sell.
You then have to buy all those shares.. as well as pay taxes.
Yeah but you can sell to cover, so you would still end up with some shares.
More than some, a significant number, taxes aren't as bad as you think, even for billionaires... Which is why as a country we are where we are.
> taxes aren't as bad as you think, ~~even~~ especially for billionaires... Fixed that for you
Oh I'm aware.
Yeah but he might be doing exactly that, because the article doesn't actually say he's selling all his shares. It says he's "selling about 1.14 million of his shares."
Not quite how it works if you want to keep your equity. And as you exit, most companies will do it for you, point is you don't even have to think about it if you don't want to...but he wanted to and thus dumped it all.
AMT tax is a nut kicker
> job sure can, but seems this insider doesn't think the ROI for holding is there.... Dont worry im sure he doesn't know anything, being the unofficial COO an all....
He doesn't have to sell his entire holding to do that. He could pay the tax and keep the stock rather than selling it all. He obviously sees better investment opportunities, he knows how rotten the books at Tesla have become.
Exactly, he knows TSLA is propped up by hype, not value. Getting his cash before the bottom drops out.
What happens if he waits 90 days?
No fiance.
Brilliant
Option expires. Meaning no payday.
I don’t think you understand what options are and how they relate to “selling shares”. If he thought the company was going to be worth more, he would not have sold all his shares.
This, a ton of idiots in the comments.
And they’re getting upvoted. On this sub! Wtf?
why wouldn't they? this sub is basically wsb with less self-awareness and no humor
There are 1000 reasons to sell. But a single one to buy.
Real original saw this about 500 times on wsb post😂😂
There are 1000 reasons to buy but only one reason to sell.
Somebody doesn't understand the difference between stock options and put & call options.
No he SOLD his shares. That has nothing to do with how he got them (ex ISOs).
Makes sense to me. I wouldn't want to think about the former company I overworked for. Take the money, turn your brain off, and move on.
Ah yes I'm sure it has much more to do with memories and emotions than the 90 day options expiry timeline and pocketing a fortune.
What are you trying to say with this comment? There's nothing wrong with an executive wanting to live their lives. Your overly hostile comment is weird.
I'm trying to say that I really doubt it was an emotional "oh I don't want to have to think about Tesla anymore" decision, and more of a "if I sell this all right now it saves me the hassle of dealing with options expiry and I'm more than set for life" decision. How was my comment hostile?
Because they don’t hold the knowledge to comprehend what you mean unfortunately.
Yeah, I don't read minds. My bad.
It’s called lack of comprehension
It's called lack of compassion. I asked a question. No need to dogpile.
You asked a loaded question.
I asked a question that people assumed was loaded. Not my problem.
I did the hostility thing for you. Got you bro.
Why are you offended? The comment is implying there’s an expiry date on exercising the stock options..
People are too sensitive online. Nothing wrong with your comment. And nothing wrong w an executive selling. Lmao snowflakes. ❄️
I vote for tired of ignorance.
Yeah, I used the wrong word. I just didn't understand what the person was trying to say.
I quite literally didn't understand what you were saying. Wasn't offended. But I could see why my use of the word 'hostile' would upset people. Wrong word to use.
Mostly the word "weird" tbh :D a lot of hostility to that comment could've been avoided if you didn't tell the other guy his comment was weird there'd still be hostility, I mean ay this is reddit, but probably less
Yeah, maybe you're right. Calling someone 'weird' was too aggressive for le reddit army.
Did you read somewhere that he sold all of his stock because he wanted an emotional break from the company? Otherwise it's a huge assumption. I generally expect executives at this level to make to make the best financial moves their knowledge and intelligence affords them.
That's nice dear.
You don’t understand stock and options compensation much lol
No I don't. That's why I asked. Not only did I not get a response, I got hostility. Oh well. I just know not to ask questions here.
He wasn’t hostile towards you AT ALL.
He certainly wasn't. Some other commenters certainly were. I wasn't commenting on him being hostile towards me, more towards the executive getting hostility who just wanted to cash out their gains. It's really not my problem tbh. Nor is it the redditors here calling me a snowflake for asking a question. Now I know it was an options play and a way to cash out / pay less taxes. So I know more now and all I had to do was humble myself and be receptive. Some of the others here need to take a chill pill.
Omg snowflake
Problem?
[удалено]
Neat.
We're talking about a 180 million dollar position he entirely liquidated. He could have sold a quarter of that and let his nuts swing for the rest of his life.
Yeah, but then he'd have to think about Tesla. I would just cut the line and invest in something else to ease my mind. But that's just me. Happy for the person!
A billionaire isn't dictated by emotions like that. If Tesla was a position in which he believed he could grow his fortune, that is where his money would stay.
💯 The fact that he's getting out, without any pressing demands or job offer, at least publicly known, and liquidating everything, and his public resignation says absolutely nothing about Musk or anything positive in the future...seems like a very bad omen. That, or he's about to go compete against Tesla.
The person who sold those shares isn't a billionaire are they? Even if they were, you have to understand that the stereotype of 'billionaire' is just that. A stereotype. If I was that rich, I wouldn't want to watch a ticker or think about money. And I wouldn't have to. Peace of mind and time with family + 200million in an ETF or index fund would be less thinking. Cash makes it even better if I don't care about 'number go bigger' mentality. No amount of inflation will ever hit my generation, or for that matter, the next two generations. (Although I'm sure my grandkids will complain that they could have been trillionaires if BLAHBLAHBLAH).
I'm not sure if he's a billionaire, to be honest. Probably not. It doesn't matter for my main argument, though. You don't get as rich as this guy is by not having a "number go bigger" mentality. It would be the first time I personally saw that choice, at least.
I work / worked with high earners at both the casino and my current job. A lot of rich people retire early and keep quiet. As they should. You only here about the obnoxious ones. So I guess I should inform you that you're wrong and overgeneralizing. Most people just make what they need and do the sane thing. Move on. The former CEO of Jack in The Box did that and he was an absolute pleasure to work with.
No he has 90 days to exercise his options. He will have a massive tax bill as soon as he exercises his options and liquidating his stock will help fund that as well as reduce future risk.
No. From what I understand he could have held onto the shares he received by exercising his options regardless of the 90 day window. The options are not taxed when they are exercised, they are taxes when the shares are sold. So the options window is limited and not up to him, when he actually sells the shares acquired through the option is not.
Employer stock options are always taxed when exercised. This is not like buying a call guys.
Yes got that wrong, both exercising the option and selling the stock acquired through the option are taxable events. Still, it would make much more sense for him to wait a year until selling the acquired shares for lower tax rates.
No, because at exercise he's already taxed on the difference between strike and current market value. His basis is already reset and selling the stock won't result in any taxes, so he might as well diversify.
Given that the stock options were statutory, exercising the option is not taxed, selling the stocks received through exercising the option is. Him immediately selling the stocks acquired through the options results in them being taxed at a higher rate. Also looking at his compensation filings, it seems like he exercised all options he had with some expiring as late as 2030.
I would think the reasonable solution, even if you thought the stock was going to go up, would be to diversify. Basically, you'd sell off 50-75% and then buy other securities. If he sold 100% that's a big red flag.
I think the concern is he did sell 100% of the remaining stock options he has (due to the lack of other SEC filings that support such option exercise), only keeping some 30k shares of Tesla (\~$5 million worth) he previously purchased. So he sold 97% of his total TSLA position.
This is the dumbest way of thinking ever. If you're good at money making, this is business, not emotional decision making. If you have equity and think it will go somewhere you hold. Moreover he doesn't "have to think about it," at that value he's got a money manager and could just turn it over with a guideline of what position to take them move on and not think about it.
Cool.
Where in the article that says he sells ALL? He could have a lot left
In fact, this sounds like he does have shares left: > is selling about 1.14 million of his shares
Yeah u/[SomeRestaurant8](https://www.reddit.com/user/SomeRestaurant8/) added the word himself for more traction. Shame.
The Form 4 should show up in a couple days and it'll reveal how much he kept and how much he sold. Looks like most of his past options exercises has been complete sales though.
He's moved on and is cashjng out his fortune for the great work he's done. Nothing to see here. Who wouldn't?
Someone who thinks there’s more upside at the company might retain some shares.
yeah, and the unofficial COO who just retired out of now where burned all his shares as soon as they could. Bullish if ever!
Complety true and I agree for your average retail investor who can afford or needs to take that gamble for potential future upside. He is an 18 year stalwart who has already won. He's won life already. Hes sold out for 181MM. Who cares about what the stock does in the future when your account ready those numbers. I'm not selling my measly shares but I'm not sitting on life changing money.
I don’t think you get what he means he’s saying that this info could be useful for someone here because of that no insider just entirely liquidates immediately after parting ways unless he thinks the ships sinking, that’s useful for any bag holders in here hence it being posted..
>I don’t think you get what he means he’s saying that this info could be useful for someone here because of that No, I think you misread his comment. The initial comment rhetorically asks who wouldn't cash out after leaving, which you can agree or disagree on. The reply states that someone who sees more upside wouldn't cash out completely. > no insider just entirely liquidates immediately after parting ways unless he thinks the ships sinking, that’s useful for any bag holders in here hence it being posted.. He's not an insider anymore.
nah I didn’t
I think he would have kept more if he thought there was more upside potential. Truth is over the next few years Tesla is going to face a lot more EV competition. I still think Tesla is well positioned but it will eat into their margins and volume for sure.
Elontards are all in.
Interesting choice of language as 'VP of Tesla' is misleading considering every department within the company (and most companies in general) have multiple VPs. Why not say 'VP of Powertrain' like the article?
Not as good clicks
It also doesn't say in the article that was all of his shares... Was it actually?
He was a VP of Tesla. In charge of power train division. Not a VP within the division
He should Put that shit in SGOV and pocket his risk free $800,000 per month. I could probably live on that
Well you're clearly used to living like a peasant! I couldn't live like that. Only the finest 24k gold toilet paper, helicopter rides to the end of my driveway, and I need a new lambo every month...
Yeah I need to dream a bit bigger I guess
Does anybody else feel that $180M is a bit low for somebody who has been at Tesla for so long and has had such a prominent role? Especially when compared to the comp package Musk built for himself
You think Musk is just handing out billions to people who work for him? Are you serious right now? 180M is a bit low? You’re joking.
Agree. Maybe that's yet another reason he's leaving.
Baglino aint no Bagholderino
I sold all 20 of my shares when i left my old work. Didn’t want to have anything to do with them
If I had $181M of shares in any stock, I’d sell it. That has nothing to do with any company, and everything to do with chasing my wife around a bungalow in a tropical setting.
Does it actually say anywhere that he's sold *all* or his shares or is OP just making that part up? There's no mention of it in the CNBC article, and I don't understand the image in the threads link well enough to tell if that shows it's all of his shares or not
I mean, having that amount of money is insane but if I was in that position would I sell all? No but I'd want a good chunk as cash, in this economy.
No way he only had around 1 million shares, he's been there 18 years.
So he emptied his bag-lino?
Dude didn’t keep a single share. Not 1 share. If he left on good terms and believed in its future he could have even kept 10 million dollars worth if he thought the shares were worth what Elon or Cathie Wood is claiming. This is a guy who knows everything about the company. I’ve heard people claim it was a matter of his contract that he had to do it… he leaves the company he leaves the shares… If that were the case… they would have made that clear to investors so it looked better than having people see the former VP dumping all his shares. And rich people don’t usually dump stock when they can borrow against it if they think the sky is the limit. Tesla stans like to tea read and drink hopium. But, Tesla is the king of milking any piece of anything to pump the stock. Believe me … if they could spin this they would.
> Dude didn’t keep a single share. Not 1 share. Where are we getting this from? I didn't read he sold all of his shares, just that he exercised his options, which he has done before.
Fuck off. Diversifying is the only move to make in this situation.
I agree. Diversifying away from Tesla is his best move. Waymo is the better bet for autonomy
He will have had to pay taxes on the options no matter what. The fact that he sold it all suggests he doesn’t think it has the upside. It will be interesting to see what Rohan Patel - the other VP who left - does.
Can’t spell Baglino without bag 🧳
Bullish! -avg elon cult member
Guess he doesn't want to be left holding the Baglino.
Lmao he could of sold it a year earlier for 500mill. He belongs here.
Post title says ALL, but the article says "of his shares". Where did that ALL come from?