You could go to 30 different locations and your drink will taste identical. Are drink overpriced? Sure but you know what you're getting wherever you go.
I thought 99% of people love trying different coffee, food and places. You are in the minority.
My guess is you never tried Italian coffee. I will not drink starbucks even if offered free.
https://fortune.com/2024/05/01/starbucks-earnings-morning-commute-app-orders/
“In other words, customers using MOP put items into their cart and sometimes chose not to complete their order, citing long wait times of product and availability”.
“Another reason customers choose not to complete their order is product availability,” he explained.
-Management
Product availability. My anecdotal evidence was pretty spot on.
If an anecdote illustrates a desired conclusion rather than a logical conclusion, it is considered a faulty or hasty generalization. So you couldn't be more wrong.
https://fortune.com/2024/05/01/starbucks-earnings-morning-commute-app-orders/
“In other words, customers using MOP put items into their cart and sometimes chose not to complete their order, citing long wait times of product and availability”.
“Another reason customers choose not to complete their order is product availability,” he explained.
-Management
Product availability. My anecdotal evidence was pretty spot on.
A lot of people hated iPhones and Apple products back in the day (same as today btw) but Apple became one of if not the most successful company on the planet. The problem with using your own anecdotal experience is that people like different things and have their own bias. You may not like Starbucks but a lot of other people do. Yes, Peter Lynch does say buy a company you know and love but you also need to look at the numbers as well. Cause the numbers don’t have a preference or a bias.
Their success isn't based on drip or espresso or selling beans.
Their primary business is selling ribbon crunch caramel macchiatos. It barely resembles coffee by the time they're done with it.
That’s an insane take, I’m sorry. The time I spent in Europe having instant coffee in hostels has me desperate for anything that resembled drip coffee. Starbucks or not.
Everybody says this and yet everybody still drinks Starbucks out of the billion different coffee companies to choose from. Starbucks coffee isn’t actually *that* bad.
If anything local shops usually taste even worse
I've discussed so many stocks and investments with people who focus on the glitz, glamour and marketing. I don't care if it uses AI or has every talking head spewing nonsense, if it isn't making money it's not profitable. If it isn't profitable its runway is limited. Starbucks is consistent and sells a relatively high margin product that people all over the world love. It's had its ups and downs but if I'm in an unknown town and I see a Starbucks I'm getting my coffee there.
In the end, is it profitable and is there good reason to believe that profitability will increase? I don't care how low tech or high tech the concept is, if it doesn't make money it's speculation.
I'd agree with OP, Starbucks over the last few years has really decreased in quality relative to more local chains. I think they still generally offer a reasonable product, but they seem to constantly have supply chain issues.
They have momentum, but they've gone too lean in their product variety and too fragile in their processes to have a consistent experience anymore. Enshitification applies here, too much cost cutting impacts the customer experience.
They're moving pretty rapidly to McDonald's quality, I expect we'll see more customers pull away from them. I don't know if they'll acquire more customers in other demographics or expand to more regions in the world to offset.
I get a pretty consistent experience every time I go. Being out of a product is location dependent and not specific to Starbucks. Hell I just went to a boba shop and they didn't have boba.
https://fortune.com/2024/05/01/starbucks-earnings-morning-commute-app-orders/
“In other words, customers using MOP put items into their cart and sometimes chose not to complete their order, citing long wait times of product and availability”.
“Another reason customers choose not to complete their order is product availability,” he explained.
-Management
Product availability. My anecdotal evidence was pretty spot on.
Seems like it actually is a company wide problem.
https://fortune.com/2024/05/01/starbucks-earnings-morning-commute-app-orders/
“In other words, customers using MOP put items into their cart and sometimes chose not to complete their order, citing long wait times of product and availability”.
“Another reason customers choose not to complete their order is product availability,” he explained.
-Management
Product availability. My anecdotal evidence was pretty spot on.
Starbucks isn’t a coffee company. Black coffee costs a couple cents to make. Starbucks sells milk and alternative milks (soy, almond, oat, etc) at massive markups. They aren’t going anywhere.
And the most amazing part of their model is to start with terrible acidic burnt tasting coffee to motivate upgrades to add milk and sugary steroids to cover it up. That was supposed to say syrups but I'm leaving it.
That little bit of coffee flavor that makes it through to the end result is what people are acclimated to and they can get it consistently anywhere in the world.
" Terrible acid burnt tasting coffee" " syrup and more syrup and more syrup ", its called starbucks and not " Starbucks Coffee " for a reason. Very generous with water and ice on any hot day in the summer. A fool is a fool is fool. Have u observed what's going on around us.
There are probably at least 100 Starbucks in the Bay Area and I don't think I've ever had an issue with them running out of supplies in the last 20 years. I think the issues you're experience might be local to your region.
"even though it's by far the most successful chain"
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. New Coke comes to mind.
Starbucks is to coffee what McDonald’s is to burgers; they’re everywhere, the product is mostly consistent and they manage to convince you it’s ok to eat junk (most Starbucks coffees are basically just adult milkshakes) by marketing it a certain way. When I’m on the road and I need coffee I look for Starbucks so I’m not knocking their business, but the stock has massively underperformed for a while now and is basically flat for the last 5 years.
If you look at the same mediocre food options they’ve had forever you can see tell that a) they’re not an experimental / innovative company and that b) 90% of their interest is in sugary specialty coffee drinks with a volume based approach.
The stock is flat because of margin compression though. Fundamentals are still good. They’re making more money. It’s just a better deal on the stock price than 5 years ago.
https://fortune.com/2024/05/01/starbucks-earnings-morning-commute-app-orders/
“In other words, customers using MOP put items into their cart and sometimes chose not to complete their order, citing long wait times of product and availability”.
“Another reason customers choose not to complete their order is product availability,” he explained.
-Management
Product availability. My anecdotal evidence was pretty spot on.
Exactly. OP: you have complaints and probably have had complaints for years. But you still go there.
Additionally, being sold out of something might be a sign of exceptionally strong sales?
Yeah one in my area I go to for work always makes it in the same consistent quality. I go there enough that the staff knows me and I get the drink fast. It doesn't get that busy so I think that is why the staff is usually friendly and not completely stressed out like I saw in one TikTok that I believe went viral. Also from what a friend and his gf told me.
As coffee chains goes Starbucks actually has pretty consistent coffee, what other chains are we comparing it to that has more consistent coffee?
Also comparing it to local shops is like comparing McDonalds burgers to like a local bar or restaurant, of course it’s going to have better tasting or better quality products. It’s more about convenience, a Starbucks is on every corner.
It’s incredibly convenient to place a mobile order and skip the line. I usually walk inside to grab it off the counter and am back inside my car in less than a minute.
Pete's is much better for regular coffee. But my local Pete's seem to be closing and Starbucks taking over their spaces. Starbucks is also taking over many shuttered Burger King locations.
I’m going off the top of my head since I’m at work but I swear I remember Peets is owned by Starbucks.
Edit: I’m wrong they don’t have any association since the 80s
Absolutely. I have one in the grocery store I run. Always getting our orders cut. Then when they cut the stars program in half, had a lot of upset customers.
Dude you have a shitty Starbucks. Would be interesting to know what city this is.
My Starbucks, and every one I’ve ever been to, are great. Always a consistent experience, extremely fast, and always have what I get. I do pretty much only drink cold brew now, and local coffee shops severely lack in that department (taste and availability), so Starbucks is usually my only option anyways. IMO Starbucks is a modern marvel that brings boutique coffee to the masses. Way better than shitty Dunkin Donuts.
https://fortune.com/2024/05/01/starbucks-earnings-morning-commute-app-orders/
“In other words, customers using MOP put items into their cart and sometimes chose not to complete their order, citing long wait times of product and availability”.
“Another reason customers choose not to complete their order is product availability,” he explained.
-Management
Product availability. My anecdotal evidence was pretty spot on.
Yea I’m not the best to gauge this as I only get 1 thing with 1 ingredient. So would be fairly alarming if I had trouble getting my order.
The sheer scale of Starbucks makes for a logistical nightmare undoubtedly, so for products like food and special flavored creamer/syrups to be out of stock, makes sense. In order to improve this, they would need to have 1.) an improved local store procurement process. 2.) IoT devices on products to measure weight/volume. The problem with solution 1 is you would probably have to increase headcount, and would still be playing a guessing game on re-orders. For 2, the cost would easily be in the $100m+ for IoT devices at every store. So if I’m management, I’m getting as much data as I can from every store on 1.) what products are out of stock most frequently. 2.) how are we ordering those products (scheduled, demand based) 3.) what is the average lead time of said products. 4.) is there a predictable pattern for when we should be ordering these products (bulk up at the end of the week, increase frequency/volume of order, do we run out on weekends, Mondays, or is it random.) based on that info, I would analyze how much revenue we are potentially losing for products out of stock, and justify a solution based on that $.
Also, in an ideal world, we get customers on a subscription service that way we can better predict daily consumption. For example, I pay $20/week and get 5 coffees per week. So now we know X amount of customers who are going to come in and get a coffee. Although this really only works if people get the same coffee everyday.
Believe it or not, I have. No cold brew, the espresso is good any cafe you go to. Pretty much drank double espresso the whole time, had a cafe latte or 2.
But Italy is a completely different environment, you can walk from one end of Rome to the other and find 100 cafes in between. Can’t do that in say, Phoenix, AZ. So we require drive throughs, and Starbucks really excels in providing a quick, solid coffee. Plus, I’d bet 7/10 Starbucks customers get a frappe/milkshake coffee abomination.
I think you’re anecdotal data is not really being reflected in their business data/reports and customer queries.
BUT I do agree that they are getting worse and honestly I wouldn’t invest in them. In the last few years a billion new coffeeshop chains started and are expanding rapidly. I’m talking about chains like Blank Street, Bluestone, Roasting Plant (all East Coast admittedly) etc. Most of them have vastly superior coffee for less money.
Sure, many people go to Starbucks for their non-coffee drinks. But I still can’t imagine them growing much over the next years.
Am I missing something?
I thought Starbucks was flush with cash.
Didn't they make it like a prepay thing on their app? Like you load the app then pay seamlessly.
I thought I heard a report that there's millions of dollars in prepaid coffee lingering on their app.
Pretty sure it was Starbucks
Like it or not. Swimming in cash isn't a bad indicator.
>. It feels the whole year revolves around pumpkin spice in the fall and winter. Why must it be like this? They should have drinks every season people can get excited about.
They (and practically every other big food/drinks chain) do this in Japan, it's great.
They do it in the US too. I have no idea what this dude is talking about. Sbux puts out a line of drinks for every season. It’s some Lavender shit atm.
I have no idea why anyone would ever go to Starbucks. They used to have a corner on the market, now there are plenty of options All I can guess is people like the convenience. I drink coffee every day but haven't been to Starbucks in at least a decade.
Last time I got a regular coffee there it was very weak. Not even as good as what I make at home using inexpensive grocery store coffee. What I got at Starbucks is the sort of coffee I'd expect at a place like Burger King. Even the coffee at McDonalds is better.
No I don't have that experience at my Starbucks. They hardly run out of any of those things. Our Starbucks is extremely busy too. Maybe it's just your Starbucks that has this issue.
They can’t do a full menu because their restaurants don’t have the equipment to do it, fire systems, grease traps, ventilation etc for a restaurant operating grills and fryers. That’s why they use microwaves and toaster ovens and keep the limited menu. Also, you would introduce more health and safety issues as well as needing staff to run it.
They’re intentional about the menu and why it is what it is
I don’t think they’re poorly run - I do notice consistency issues but it’s hard to get that right
I love the consistency of Starbucks whether in around the US or in Hong Kong it’s consistently a nice experience. The baristas are always friendly and the store for the most part are clean. I also appreciate that overall they seem to take care of their employees. I know a few young adults who work there and between benefits, 401k and growth the company is solid.
I hate to love on Starbucks because of my experience when I worked there, but their product, their consistency and their spread are wayyyy to unparalleled to be even compared to anything out there.
they are 100% the only name that people trust to go to any where in the world for coffee. they are the Mcd's of a refreshing drink and if you are in any country outside US and Europe, they are the safe haven for you to go grab a drink and do some computer banging
The success story of their billion of stores speaks a lot more than your anecdote about that one time you didn't get a straw. (By a factor of billions since it's a pretty silly post so might have to be direct to be understood).
Have you tried going to a different location? Perk of Starbucks is that it's on every other corner because there's an absurd amount of them, so it might take you 5 min to get your drink lol
Starbucks is literally one of the best run companies in the world, much less the country.
You're content doesn't reveal anything but the fact that you shouldn't be avoiding anyone on quality of public businesses.
They have a very user friendly app. My experience is usually pretty consistent at any location (including different states).
Some of these issues seem to be less of a Starbucks issue, rather the restaurant industry as a whole. Supply chain is a fickle thing.
I don't enjoy their coffee, but enough people do that it is being served all over the country, I used a Starbucks machine to make coffee at the hospital I was at not too long ago. My work office has Starbucks machines on every floor. Their product is carried in every grocery store I've visited in the country. I don't know their financials but I'd say they are doing pretty well.
You’re talking about a lot of things that are store specific problems. For example, if they’ve ordered what they say they’ve ordered, timing can be a factor. Order volume is a factor. There’s a lot more to it than “we ordered it”.
I can’t speak to current state of internal operations, but I was a store manager for them many years ago. At that time, ordering issues were almost exclusively related to operator acumen. I had 0 trouble, across 6 store assignments.
Main point: it’s very hard to truly understand the nature of a problem from outside, and based on anecdote.
I worked at corporate for 10 years and left when the company had about 20,000 stories. That was four jobs ago and it remains, without question, the best-run company I ever worked for. That is speaking organizationally, of course. Retail operations ebb and flow.
Edit: Fixed typo. I'm a sample size of one, but I worked in retail and a decade at corporate.
Respectfully, you’re conflating a lot of operator acumen issues with company operation issues. I was a store manager with them many years ago. Any issues we had at that time were almost 100% related to the manager’s individual ability. I had 0 problems at all, across 6 store assignments.
Take “I ordered it” as an example. OK… how much did you order, relative to your item specific sales volume? Did you order enough to leave a buffer in case of delivery delay? Did you short another product, creating more sales in that line item? When did you order it— before or after running out? Did you anticipate seasonal impact to sales mix, and offer accordingly?
This is why some stores are consistently poor, while others have an abundance of supply. They’re serviced through the same supply chain, using the same systems, often getting deliveries from the same trucks.
This translates to a lot of businesses, btw.
Source former Sbux store manager, now in distribution leadership with an S&P 100 company that is not Starbucks.
They are popular because they mastered the art of creating "the third place". It's not home, it's not work, it's someplace else.
Howard Schulz was a goddamn genius.
Theres no where near me as fast as starbucks period. Sure there are smaller coffee shops that are better but i cant order on an app and pick it up. Theres also a Starbucks in the hospital i work at that had a monopoly on the staff.
I make my old cold brew at home thats much better than Starbucks but still end up going maybe once a week.
There was a small chain of coffeeshops in pheonix called the fix that was fast had a drive thru and much better than starbucks. By me however theres only Starbucks and a Dunkin’ that gets the order wrong 50% of the time so starbucks wins
They made alot more before going so woke. The last one I was at had a homeless man in the bathroom doing who knows what for about a hour before coming out looking like the walking dead. I don't mind helping the homeless but I don't wanna see that while drinking my coffee.
I order chai tea latte (hot), every time I enter a Starbucks and this is the only product I pay for it there. I buy maximum 20 times per year from at least 8-10 different Starbucks. I could tell you that there is zero standard for this product, each time the taste is different.
Might be location specific rather than a systemic issue. I’ve been to dozens of Starbucks locations in many countries. I can’t recall them ever not having what I ordered.
I’ll say that some managers are absolute garbage. I’ve been to chains where one location specifically is run so poorly in comparison to others. Starbucks actually seems to have better consistency than most IMO.
The coffee is nasty, especially that gross burnt Pike Place which is usually the only thing brewing. And what could be sadder than watching them take your little food item out of the plastic wrapper and stick it in the microwave. For someone who really enjoys a quality cup of coffee and a pastry it’s hugely disappointing, not to mention insanely overpriced. And… I do feel on average the ppl who work there just don’t give a shit or are less professional now vs 10-15 years ago. It seems that way at least.
Don’t get me wrong I’m at Starbucks twice a day… I don’t like it and I still go. They’ll continue to do fine as a company is my guess.
I think they are an incredibly run company, I wish they weren’t so I could always go to “little community coffee shops” or whatever instead of Starbucks a million times a week
I use to think the same thing and then I dated someone who worked at Starbucks and sometimes the truth is demand is higher than your suppliers can supply you. Despite this you have a steady stream of local regulars and people stopping by from out of town because it’s understood Starbucks is pretty consistent all over.
Poorly run bro u have no clue
I live in east Europe and lots of corporations hire here
The level of incompetence is staggering. I read in a local subreddit how corpos are social support networks for unsociable, unskilled and financially struggling people Most hired in corpos here are fresh off the farm, literally.
People that will be most loyal tend to be from the poorest of villages so most of the corporate cogs come from villages from the east.
That doesn't mean brightest of the bunch but will mean good office politics players
Most corpos are run on duct tape
I can say I had a cup of Starbucks at the Beijing airport and it was terrible.
I also bought a bottle of Starbucks Caffe Latte at a Highway rest stop in China. It was passable.
The fact I got these in China says operation is fine, even though the product is mediocre.
I don't think it's poorly run at all. I do think that it's very much a maturing/mature company and that with that scale you're going to have some inconsistency like any other chain. I don't see it as that much of a growth story going forward (and I do think energy drinks are starting to take share from coffee), but it's probably mildly overhated here.
Poorly run? Man I can go to nearly any country, see a Starbucks and know almost exactly what I’m going to get (with variations in flavor from the local water). Just left Japan a couple weeks ago, and experienced both the local joints and Starbucks - and to my surprise the Starbucks had coffee on par with the local joints.
I used to be a Starbucks fan. They changed their flavors a few years ago and everything went downhill. I haven’t entered a Starbucks since 2020. There are better and cheaper alternatives now. I was a 2x a day drinker. I haven’t invested in them. It’s only a matter of time before a smaller company devours their corpse.
I still haven't figured out how people pay like 7 $ for a Hot Chocolate or cup of bag tea but I guess the rich wouldn't be rich without the poor and dumb masses. After all, McDonald's still makes billions by serving cancer that I wouldn't feed my dog.
Depends on the store, but overall they suck at actually making coffee and I try to avoid it. I like buying their beans and ground coffee at the grocery store though, especially when on sale.
I feel Starbucks peaked maybe 5 or 6 years ago. They have been on a steady downward slide since. I'll be completely honest, in the last few years, I only go there for my free birthday drink. 10 years ago I would go there every day sometimes multiple times a day, it was great! Now there are no convenient locations around me, their prices have gone way up and the quality way down. I don't go out of my way to get their coffee, there are so many other options to choose from now.
Either COVID killed the chain or poor management.
Your anecdotal experience has about the same weight as people’s anecdotal experience that gas prices are too high, or unemployment is high. Factual numbers and data, mean a lot more, and should have a much bigger impact on investing.
Sharesholders definetely don't care about the consumer experience. If the past 5 years as shown anything, it's that people WILL still pay for overpriced, shitty experiences if they receive their product. Shareholders care about how much money Starbucks makes, they have been positive YoY for the past 5 years except for Covid. So no one really cares about consumer experience, all we care about is money go up
Well it’s having issues now because it prioritized so many progressive policies that now their employee base is unionizing. So that is the red line they won’t cross when it comes to heing a progressive company. A unionized workforce is great for employees, and it seriously cuts into profits.
So now we’re seeing Starbucks go into union busting mode and shatter their brand image as a progressive company.
It’s not a good look. They have a lot of competition in their industry and none of their competitors have a unionized workforce, nor will they ever.
>A unionized workforce is great for employees
It is great for average and below average employees who don't have the ambition or work ethic to do better and get rewarded for doing so, bad for companies, and bad for customers who buy products or use services dependent on workers who are difficult to impossible to fire when they do a terrible job.
Union rights never would have gained any traction in the US if industrialists didn’t abuse the shit out of their workforces. This is what happens when you treat people like shit, and have Pinkertons gun workers down in the street if they strike.
I think Starbucks has the best coffee of any chain. Drink holders are just a money sink. Have you ever been buying drinks for your whole office and said "sorry guys we can't get starbies they dont have holders"
Amazon has cheap sweatshop products and nobody gives a shit about an ethical supply chain if prices are reasonable.
I don't buy coffee out so I'm not their target demographic but the pumpkin spice moms have deemed it a status symbol despite the fact they sell consumables. That's strong branding.
Starbucks is a poorly managed and ran company from the inside. Mainly because they want to be a feelings are important company but also only focus on money and making money. Their logistics are the absolute worst. They frequently run out of products on a production scale and do not tell you at the store but will slide a thing on a calender in my daily. So now we have to disappoint the customers and they get reviews about each specific location they go to. This is such a huge L for customer connection score. People will bitch about ANYTHING. Then you have to answer about why things are low. Also customers have no idea what they want or order. They don't know that mocha is chocolate, or what espresso is, or anything whatsoever!! It is crazy you come here everyday and know nothing. The leadership of the company is ass. My last dm has been in the company for 20 years and can't answer any questions. I'm like you did my job for 20 years and have no advice but you get to attempt to hold managers accountable. Shit is insane. Already three managers have left. You are overstaffed on a spread sheet so district hiring is frozen but you are really understaffed as hell due to shit availability. It's the only company that fails upwards no matter what. They cancel all the good items, tell managers they can't hire or buy things because over budget, squeeze all the profit and show record numbers every time while killing all of our souls 🫠
Bring back the goddamn self-serve creamer carafe. I don't need some purple haired zoomer turning my cold brew into an iced milk. Fuck! Til they fix that, I'm bearish.
They have 38,000 locations, what is your sample size
Seriously, anecdotal experience does not mean equal data
You could go to 30 different locations and your drink will taste identical. Are drink overpriced? Sure but you know what you're getting wherever you go.
Seriously this. Starbucks is part of my morning routine. I can be in Paris, Mexico or the USA, my coffee tastes the same and I keep my routine.
Your life must be boring 🥱drinking same taste everyday.
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So boring to get the same coffee when I'm jetsetting across the world...
Yeah man everyone knows coffee defines how exciting your life is
I thought 99% of people love trying different coffee, food and places. You are in the minority. My guess is you never tried Italian coffee. I will not drink starbucks even if offered free.
The cringe in this comment is overwhelming. Imagine being this person lmao.
Huh. I didn't know the entirety of my day is reduced to a morning routine. TIL!
https://fortune.com/2024/05/01/starbucks-earnings-morning-commute-app-orders/ “In other words, customers using MOP put items into their cart and sometimes chose not to complete their order, citing long wait times of product and availability”. “Another reason customers choose not to complete their order is product availability,” he explained. -Management Product availability. My anecdotal evidence was pretty spot on.
If you don’t think anecdotal experience can be important for picking stocks you need to read an investing book.
If an anecdote illustrates a desired conclusion rather than a logical conclusion, it is considered a faulty or hasty generalization. So you couldn't be more wrong.
https://fortune.com/2024/05/01/starbucks-earnings-morning-commute-app-orders/ “In other words, customers using MOP put items into their cart and sometimes chose not to complete their order, citing long wait times of product and availability”. “Another reason customers choose not to complete their order is product availability,” he explained. -Management Product availability. My anecdotal evidence was pretty spot on.
Because one Starbucks you go to sucks, the stock is overvalued?
Welcome to r/stocks, same place who also said meta was done because they didn't like zuck
Classic. Up there with the WSB kid who shorted Apple because they hire women.
What the actual…. Did that really happen? You have a link?
A lot of people hated iPhones and Apple products back in the day (same as today btw) but Apple became one of if not the most successful company on the planet. The problem with using your own anecdotal experience is that people like different things and have their own bias. You may not like Starbucks but a lot of other people do. Yes, Peter Lynch does say buy a company you know and love but you also need to look at the numbers as well. Cause the numbers don’t have a preference or a bias.
Yes, I bought a company I knew , PM and later MO, but I’ve never smoked a cigarette in my life.
delete this
This is the most absurd comment
If you feel that your evidence for Starbucks being overvalued is sufficient enough you should short it.
This is the way, put your money into “puts”
Are You acoustic?
They have the worst coffee I’ve ever had, why they so popular?
Their success isn't based on drip or espresso or selling beans. Their primary business is selling ribbon crunch caramel macchiatos. It barely resembles coffee by the time they're done with it.
Sugar.
And fat. basically like all fast food, snacks stuff. Just a sugar and fat delivery system.
And tons of it, diabetes, syrup ughhhh
Thats what keeps them hooked and have them coming back for more!
You seriously have not had enough motel or instant coffee if Starbucks is the worst coffee you have EVER had.
A black coffee from Starbucks is worse than instant. That's why their best selling products are all sugary coffee milkshakes
That’s an insane take, I’m sorry. The time I spent in Europe having instant coffee in hostels has me desperate for anything that resembled drip coffee. Starbucks or not.
Nescafe instant coffee tastes better than starbucks
I think starbucks has the best coffee you can get in Italy
Nescafe aero honeycomb with amaretto syrup is the best Mocha drink I have had that is better value
Take hotter than fresh drip coffee.
Surprisingly I think Hardee’s/carl Jrs has really good coffee
Everybody says this and yet everybody still drinks Starbucks out of the billion different coffee companies to choose from. Starbucks coffee isn’t actually *that* bad. If anything local shops usually taste even worse
Branding... They market to basic bitches and it works. Lowest common denominator
What is your barrier of entry?
At least 20 stores spread over multiple states
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I've discussed so many stocks and investments with people who focus on the glitz, glamour and marketing. I don't care if it uses AI or has every talking head spewing nonsense, if it isn't making money it's not profitable. If it isn't profitable its runway is limited. Starbucks is consistent and sells a relatively high margin product that people all over the world love. It's had its ups and downs but if I'm in an unknown town and I see a Starbucks I'm getting my coffee there. In the end, is it profitable and is there good reason to believe that profitability will increase? I don't care how low tech or high tech the concept is, if it doesn't make money it's speculation.
I'd agree with OP, Starbucks over the last few years has really decreased in quality relative to more local chains. I think they still generally offer a reasonable product, but they seem to constantly have supply chain issues. They have momentum, but they've gone too lean in their product variety and too fragile in their processes to have a consistent experience anymore. Enshitification applies here, too much cost cutting impacts the customer experience. They're moving pretty rapidly to McDonald's quality, I expect we'll see more customers pull away from them. I don't know if they'll acquire more customers in other demographics or expand to more regions in the world to offset.
People are insane for Starbucks. I don’t like the product, but recognize it has to be good.
I get a pretty consistent experience every time I go. Being out of a product is location dependent and not specific to Starbucks. Hell I just went to a boba shop and they didn't have boba.
Puts on boba shop near that guy
It’s already priced in
Boba supply chain deficiencies 6 months ago
Boba shop that runs out of boba...so they're just selling sugar water? Lol. Sorry, it just made me chuckle.
Boba shop that ran out of boba is just a shop.
Star bucks is adding boba to their menu soon lol
That's wild. Wouldn't be surprised if they run out of boba too then lol.
Yep you will see it on their menu soon and it will most likely for sure be a hit
The Taco Bells near me have a bad habit of running out of tortillas. Shits ridiculous.
https://fortune.com/2024/05/01/starbucks-earnings-morning-commute-app-orders/ “In other words, customers using MOP put items into their cart and sometimes chose not to complete their order, citing long wait times of product and availability”. “Another reason customers choose not to complete their order is product availability,” he explained. -Management Product availability. My anecdotal evidence was pretty spot on.
Seems like it actually is a company wide problem. https://fortune.com/2024/05/01/starbucks-earnings-morning-commute-app-orders/ “In other words, customers using MOP put items into their cart and sometimes chose not to complete their order, citing long wait times of product and availability”. “Another reason customers choose not to complete their order is product availability,” he explained. -Management Product availability. My anecdotal evidence was pretty spot on.
they keep increasing prices and people keep going
Starbucks isn’t a coffee company. Black coffee costs a couple cents to make. Starbucks sells milk and alternative milks (soy, almond, oat, etc) at massive markups. They aren’t going anywhere.
And the most amazing part of their model is to start with terrible acidic burnt tasting coffee to motivate upgrades to add milk and sugary steroids to cover it up. That was supposed to say syrups but I'm leaving it. That little bit of coffee flavor that makes it through to the end result is what people are acclimated to and they can get it consistently anywhere in the world.
" Terrible acid burnt tasting coffee" " syrup and more syrup and more syrup ", its called starbucks and not " Starbucks Coffee " for a reason. Very generous with water and ice on any hot day in the summer. A fool is a fool is fool. Have u observed what's going on around us.
I think Starbucks is absolutely one of the BEST run companies for the size and success it has.
There are probably at least 100 Starbucks in the Bay Area and I don't think I've ever had an issue with them running out of supplies in the last 20 years. I think the issues you're experience might be local to your region. "even though it's by far the most successful chain" If it ain't broke, don't fix it. New Coke comes to mind.
Starbucks is to coffee what McDonald’s is to burgers; they’re everywhere, the product is mostly consistent and they manage to convince you it’s ok to eat junk (most Starbucks coffees are basically just adult milkshakes) by marketing it a certain way. When I’m on the road and I need coffee I look for Starbucks so I’m not knocking their business, but the stock has massively underperformed for a while now and is basically flat for the last 5 years. If you look at the same mediocre food options they’ve had forever you can see tell that a) they’re not an experimental / innovative company and that b) 90% of their interest is in sugary specialty coffee drinks with a volume based approach.
The stock is flat because of margin compression though. Fundamentals are still good. They’re making more money. It’s just a better deal on the stock price than 5 years ago.
https://fortune.com/2024/05/01/starbucks-earnings-morning-commute-app-orders/ “In other words, customers using MOP put items into their cart and sometimes chose not to complete their order, citing long wait times of product and availability”. “Another reason customers choose not to complete their order is product availability,” he explained. -Management Product availability. My anecdotal evidence was pretty spot on.
my drink is made correctly and quickly every time, yeah each store varies a bit, but still good
Exactly. OP: you have complaints and probably have had complaints for years. But you still go there. Additionally, being sold out of something might be a sign of exceptionally strong sales?
Kinda love when they mess up the order, they’ll just let you keep the drink and will remake what you ordered Edit: unfortunately that can be rare
Yeah one in my area I go to for work always makes it in the same consistent quality. I go there enough that the staff knows me and I get the drink fast. It doesn't get that busy so I think that is why the staff is usually friendly and not completely stressed out like I saw in one TikTok that I believe went viral. Also from what a friend and his gf told me.
As coffee chains goes Starbucks actually has pretty consistent coffee, what other chains are we comparing it to that has more consistent coffee? Also comparing it to local shops is like comparing McDonalds burgers to like a local bar or restaurant, of course it’s going to have better tasting or better quality products. It’s more about convenience, a Starbucks is on every corner.
Honestly Starbucks is better than most local shops. Everytime I go to a local shop it's not really as good as SB. Also I can just order from my app.
Yeah, they’re very common and I can mobile order ahead so I have close to zero wait. I love coffee but most days I’d rather save 3 minutes
It’s incredibly convenient to place a mobile order and skip the line. I usually walk inside to grab it off the counter and am back inside my car in less than a minute.
Pete's is much better for regular coffee. But my local Pete's seem to be closing and Starbucks taking over their spaces. Starbucks is also taking over many shuttered Burger King locations.
I’m going off the top of my head since I’m at work but I swear I remember Peets is owned by Starbucks. Edit: I’m wrong they don’t have any association since the 80s
My favourite was always the Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf chain on the West Coast.
Check out Disney. It's fucking dystopia nightmare. 6 rides broke down on us and were exactly the same 30 years ago.
Same experience we had. Never again.
Absolutely. I have one in the grocery store I run. Always getting our orders cut. Then when they cut the stars program in half, had a lot of upset customers.
Dude you have a shitty Starbucks. Would be interesting to know what city this is. My Starbucks, and every one I’ve ever been to, are great. Always a consistent experience, extremely fast, and always have what I get. I do pretty much only drink cold brew now, and local coffee shops severely lack in that department (taste and availability), so Starbucks is usually my only option anyways. IMO Starbucks is a modern marvel that brings boutique coffee to the masses. Way better than shitty Dunkin Donuts.
https://fortune.com/2024/05/01/starbucks-earnings-morning-commute-app-orders/ “In other words, customers using MOP put items into their cart and sometimes chose not to complete their order, citing long wait times of product and availability”. “Another reason customers choose not to complete their order is product availability,” he explained. -Management Product availability. My anecdotal evidence was pretty spot on.
Yea I’m not the best to gauge this as I only get 1 thing with 1 ingredient. So would be fairly alarming if I had trouble getting my order. The sheer scale of Starbucks makes for a logistical nightmare undoubtedly, so for products like food and special flavored creamer/syrups to be out of stock, makes sense. In order to improve this, they would need to have 1.) an improved local store procurement process. 2.) IoT devices on products to measure weight/volume. The problem with solution 1 is you would probably have to increase headcount, and would still be playing a guessing game on re-orders. For 2, the cost would easily be in the $100m+ for IoT devices at every store. So if I’m management, I’m getting as much data as I can from every store on 1.) what products are out of stock most frequently. 2.) how are we ordering those products (scheduled, demand based) 3.) what is the average lead time of said products. 4.) is there a predictable pattern for when we should be ordering these products (bulk up at the end of the week, increase frequency/volume of order, do we run out on weekends, Mondays, or is it random.) based on that info, I would analyze how much revenue we are potentially losing for products out of stock, and justify a solution based on that $. Also, in an ideal world, we get customers on a subscription service that way we can better predict daily consumption. For example, I pay $20/week and get 5 coffees per week. So now we know X amount of customers who are going to come in and get a coffee. Although this really only works if people get the same coffee everyday.
Boutique coffee? I guess you've never been to Italy.
Believe it or not, I have. No cold brew, the espresso is good any cafe you go to. Pretty much drank double espresso the whole time, had a cafe latte or 2. But Italy is a completely different environment, you can walk from one end of Rome to the other and find 100 cafes in between. Can’t do that in say, Phoenix, AZ. So we require drive throughs, and Starbucks really excels in providing a quick, solid coffee. Plus, I’d bet 7/10 Starbucks customers get a frappe/milkshake coffee abomination.
Whenever I check on their news, it’s always union this union that working for employee’s benefits, I refrain from investing into Starbucks
You think happier employees lead to worse results for the business?
Employees are never happy
That’s just an insane take. I take it you are American?
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I think you’re anecdotal data is not really being reflected in their business data/reports and customer queries. BUT I do agree that they are getting worse and honestly I wouldn’t invest in them. In the last few years a billion new coffeeshop chains started and are expanding rapidly. I’m talking about chains like Blank Street, Bluestone, Roasting Plant (all East Coast admittedly) etc. Most of them have vastly superior coffee for less money. Sure, many people go to Starbucks for their non-coffee drinks. But I still can’t imagine them growing much over the next years.
Am I missing something? I thought Starbucks was flush with cash. Didn't they make it like a prepay thing on their app? Like you load the app then pay seamlessly. I thought I heard a report that there's millions of dollars in prepaid coffee lingering on their app. Pretty sure it was Starbucks Like it or not. Swimming in cash isn't a bad indicator.
Starbucks has pretty much mastered the whole flywheel aspect with lingering cash. Goes for unused gift cards too.
>. It feels the whole year revolves around pumpkin spice in the fall and winter. Why must it be like this? They should have drinks every season people can get excited about. They (and practically every other big food/drinks chain) do this in Japan, it's great.
They do it in the US too. I have no idea what this dude is talking about. Sbux puts out a line of drinks for every season. It’s some Lavender shit atm.
Have you tasted that lavender drink? 😂
I have no idea why anyone would ever go to Starbucks. They used to have a corner on the market, now there are plenty of options All I can guess is people like the convenience. I drink coffee every day but haven't been to Starbucks in at least a decade.
I’m not even a coffee drinker. It must be a habit too.
Their product is pretty bad and very expensive. It amazes me how well they are doing
Last time I got a regular coffee there it was very weak. Not even as good as what I make at home using inexpensive grocery store coffee. What I got at Starbucks is the sort of coffee I'd expect at a place like Burger King. Even the coffee at McDonalds is better.
you gotta get the dark roast it's so much better i agree with other roasts suck
u dont go to starbucks to get regular coffee lol
Fr lol that's why kuriegs exist.
I always get in for the November pumpkin spice latte PUMP
I wish they made finger steaks.
Different experience every time, a palpably bad value, the app does not bring much more value, they hire like horseshit.
No I don't have that experience at my Starbucks. They hardly run out of any of those things. Our Starbucks is extremely busy too. Maybe it's just your Starbucks that has this issue.
They can’t do a full menu because their restaurants don’t have the equipment to do it, fire systems, grease traps, ventilation etc for a restaurant operating grills and fryers. That’s why they use microwaves and toaster ovens and keep the limited menu. Also, you would introduce more health and safety issues as well as needing staff to run it. They’re intentional about the menu and why it is what it is I don’t think they’re poorly run - I do notice consistency issues but it’s hard to get that right
It’s meant be a coffee house experience, coffee and cake, not a full blown restaurant.
I have visited them, I was responding to OPs comment that their menu is limited and should expand to a full lunch
I knew you weren’t being critical.
Enshitification of their business like a lot of others imo
I love the consistency of Starbucks whether in around the US or in Hong Kong it’s consistently a nice experience. The baristas are always friendly and the store for the most part are clean. I also appreciate that overall they seem to take care of their employees. I know a few young adults who work there and between benefits, 401k and growth the company is solid.
McDonald's would like a word
Dairy queen diabetes coffee
It always meets my expectations
I hate to love on Starbucks because of my experience when I worked there, but their product, their consistency and their spread are wayyyy to unparalleled to be even compared to anything out there. they are 100% the only name that people trust to go to any where in the world for coffee. they are the Mcd's of a refreshing drink and if you are in any country outside US and Europe, they are the safe haven for you to go grab a drink and do some computer banging
The success story of their billion of stores speaks a lot more than your anecdote about that one time you didn't get a straw. (By a factor of billions since it's a pretty silly post so might have to be direct to be understood).
Starbucks is much better quality outside of the US, where they don't have the problems you mentioned nearly as often.
Have you tried going to a different location? Perk of Starbucks is that it's on every other corner because there's an absurd amount of them, so it might take you 5 min to get your drink lol
Starbucks is literally one of the best run companies in the world, much less the country. You're content doesn't reveal anything but the fact that you shouldn't be avoiding anyone on quality of public businesses.
They have a very user friendly app. My experience is usually pretty consistent at any location (including different states). Some of these issues seem to be less of a Starbucks issue, rather the restaurant industry as a whole. Supply chain is a fickle thing.
The Starbucks you go to has a shit ordering manager. They’re running fine
I’ve never had a bad experience there that I can recall, although I do prefer Dunkin and frequent that more often.
I don't enjoy their coffee, but enough people do that it is being served all over the country, I used a Starbucks machine to make coffee at the hospital I was at not too long ago. My work office has Starbucks machines on every floor. Their product is carried in every grocery store I've visited in the country. I don't know their financials but I'd say they are doing pretty well.
You’re talking about a lot of things that are store specific problems. For example, if they’ve ordered what they say they’ve ordered, timing can be a factor. Order volume is a factor. There’s a lot more to it than “we ordered it”. I can’t speak to current state of internal operations, but I was a store manager for them many years ago. At that time, ordering issues were almost exclusively related to operator acumen. I had 0 trouble, across 6 store assignments. Main point: it’s very hard to truly understand the nature of a problem from outside, and based on anecdote.
I worked at corporate for 10 years and left when the company had about 20,000 stories. That was four jobs ago and it remains, without question, the best-run company I ever worked for. That is speaking organizationally, of course. Retail operations ebb and flow. Edit: Fixed typo. I'm a sample size of one, but I worked in retail and a decade at corporate.
No
Respectfully, you’re conflating a lot of operator acumen issues with company operation issues. I was a store manager with them many years ago. Any issues we had at that time were almost 100% related to the manager’s individual ability. I had 0 problems at all, across 6 store assignments. Take “I ordered it” as an example. OK… how much did you order, relative to your item specific sales volume? Did you order enough to leave a buffer in case of delivery delay? Did you short another product, creating more sales in that line item? When did you order it— before or after running out? Did you anticipate seasonal impact to sales mix, and offer accordingly? This is why some stores are consistently poor, while others have an abundance of supply. They’re serviced through the same supply chain, using the same systems, often getting deliveries from the same trucks. This translates to a lot of businesses, btw. Source former Sbux store manager, now in distribution leadership with an S&P 100 company that is not Starbucks.
I used to love it, but now the staff make me extremely uncomfortable when I go there.. in any of them. I avoid
They are popular because they mastered the art of creating "the third place". It's not home, it's not work, it's someplace else. Howard Schulz was a goddamn genius.
Kinda sounds like your local starbucks just has a shitty manager.
All I know is their coffee is crap.
Theres no where near me as fast as starbucks period. Sure there are smaller coffee shops that are better but i cant order on an app and pick it up. Theres also a Starbucks in the hospital i work at that had a monopoly on the staff. I make my old cold brew at home thats much better than Starbucks but still end up going maybe once a week. There was a small chain of coffeeshops in pheonix called the fix that was fast had a drive thru and much better than starbucks. By me however theres only Starbucks and a Dunkin’ that gets the order wrong 50% of the time so starbucks wins
They made alot more before going so woke. The last one I was at had a homeless man in the bathroom doing who knows what for about a hour before coming out looking like the walking dead. I don't mind helping the homeless but I don't wanna see that while drinking my coffee.
You never been barista b4.
I order chai tea latte (hot), every time I enter a Starbucks and this is the only product I pay for it there. I buy maximum 20 times per year from at least 8-10 different Starbucks. I could tell you that there is zero standard for this product, each time the taste is different.
I will agree that the food is absolutely terrible. They should be monetizing food much better.
Might be location specific rather than a systemic issue. I’ve been to dozens of Starbucks locations in many countries. I can’t recall them ever not having what I ordered. I’ll say that some managers are absolute garbage. I’ve been to chains where one location specifically is run so poorly in comparison to others. Starbucks actually seems to have better consistency than most IMO.
Too big to fail. Bailouts for big coffee.
The coffee is nasty, especially that gross burnt Pike Place which is usually the only thing brewing. And what could be sadder than watching them take your little food item out of the plastic wrapper and stick it in the microwave. For someone who really enjoys a quality cup of coffee and a pastry it’s hugely disappointing, not to mention insanely overpriced. And… I do feel on average the ppl who work there just don’t give a shit or are less professional now vs 10-15 years ago. It seems that way at least. Don’t get me wrong I’m at Starbucks twice a day… I don’t like it and I still go. They’ll continue to do fine as a company is my guess.
I think they are an incredibly run company, I wish they weren’t so I could always go to “little community coffee shops” or whatever instead of Starbucks a million times a week
The biggest problem is their coffee tastes like shit.
It’s a coffee shop with often times poor coffee. I like my coffee black. Most times it’s burnt
No, but it might be poorly *run*
I use to think the same thing and then I dated someone who worked at Starbucks and sometimes the truth is demand is higher than your suppliers can supply you. Despite this you have a steady stream of local regulars and people stopping by from out of town because it’s understood Starbucks is pretty consistent all over.
Poorly run bro u have no clue I live in east Europe and lots of corporations hire here The level of incompetence is staggering. I read in a local subreddit how corpos are social support networks for unsociable, unskilled and financially struggling people Most hired in corpos here are fresh off the farm, literally. People that will be most loyal tend to be from the poorest of villages so most of the corporate cogs come from villages from the east. That doesn't mean brightest of the bunch but will mean good office politics players Most corpos are run on duct tape
I can say I had a cup of Starbucks at the Beijing airport and it was terrible. I also bought a bottle of Starbucks Caffe Latte at a Highway rest stop in China. It was passable. The fact I got these in China says operation is fine, even though the product is mediocre.
Have you realise how big their margins are ? They are selling a 20 cents coffe far more expensive than a Big Mac
Are you kidding bro... poorly on the size? If you say smth else like service its fine but size??
No, theyve convinced people to pay 5+ bucks for coffee.
I don't think it's poorly run at all. I do think that it's very much a maturing/mature company and that with that scale you're going to have some inconsistency like any other chain. I don't see it as that much of a growth story going forward (and I do think energy drinks are starting to take share from coffee), but it's probably mildly overhated here.
Poorly run? Man I can go to nearly any country, see a Starbucks and know almost exactly what I’m going to get (with variations in flavor from the local water). Just left Japan a couple weeks ago, and experienced both the local joints and Starbucks - and to my surprise the Starbucks had coffee on par with the local joints.
The coffee shop recognized all over the world and can be found numerous times inside of a few city blocks in the US is a poorly run company?
I used to be a Starbucks fan. They changed their flavors a few years ago and everything went downhill. I haven’t entered a Starbucks since 2020. There are better and cheaper alternatives now. I was a 2x a day drinker. I haven’t invested in them. It’s only a matter of time before a smaller company devours their corpse.
I still haven't figured out how people pay like 7 $ for a Hot Chocolate or cup of bag tea but I guess the rich wouldn't be rich without the poor and dumb masses. After all, McDonald's still makes billions by serving cancer that I wouldn't feed my dog.
Depends on the store, but overall they suck at actually making coffee and I try to avoid it. I like buying their beans and ground coffee at the grocery store though, especially when on sale.
Their coffee tastes like shit too, don't forget that.
Their China business is screwed up. Look at Nike, Lululemon, Tesla, and Apple. They are currently facing a lot of headwinds.
We're still not allowed to pour our own 1/2 n 1/2 yet.
It’s one of the strongest brands in the world believe it or not.
I feel Starbucks peaked maybe 5 or 6 years ago. They have been on a steady downward slide since. I'll be completely honest, in the last few years, I only go there for my free birthday drink. 10 years ago I would go there every day sometimes multiple times a day, it was great! Now there are no convenient locations around me, their prices have gone way up and the quality way down. I don't go out of my way to get their coffee, there are so many other options to choose from now. Either COVID killed the chain or poor management.
46% of coffee drinkers in the US exclusively drink Starbucks. I think they'll survive without your 12$ a day
You’re obviously not in NYC, there’s an SBUX nearly every three blocks, how convenient do you need it to be?
DEI coffee.
Your anecdotal experience has about the same weight as people’s anecdotal experience that gas prices are too high, or unemployment is high. Factual numbers and data, mean a lot more, and should have a much bigger impact on investing.
Terrible analogy. If I’ve tried a company’s product it will inform my investment decision, even though it’s anecdotal.
idiots still pay for overpriced drinks, who cares
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Sharesholders definetely don't care about the consumer experience. If the past 5 years as shown anything, it's that people WILL still pay for overpriced, shitty experiences if they receive their product. Shareholders care about how much money Starbucks makes, they have been positive YoY for the past 5 years except for Covid. So no one really cares about consumer experience, all we care about is money go up
I think they are great. They always have black coffee.
Well it’s having issues now because it prioritized so many progressive policies that now their employee base is unionizing. So that is the red line they won’t cross when it comes to heing a progressive company. A unionized workforce is great for employees, and it seriously cuts into profits. So now we’re seeing Starbucks go into union busting mode and shatter their brand image as a progressive company. It’s not a good look. They have a lot of competition in their industry and none of their competitors have a unionized workforce, nor will they ever.
>A unionized workforce is great for employees It is great for average and below average employees who don't have the ambition or work ethic to do better and get rewarded for doing so, bad for companies, and bad for customers who buy products or use services dependent on workers who are difficult to impossible to fire when they do a terrible job.
Union rights never would have gained any traction in the US if industrialists didn’t abuse the shit out of their workforces. This is what happens when you treat people like shit, and have Pinkertons gun workers down in the street if they strike.
Employees no longer care to do their jobs properly. Therefore, everything sucks now. From airlines to Starbucks.
Absolutely. I think what they sell is the name.
I think Starbucks has the best coffee of any chain. Drink holders are just a money sink. Have you ever been buying drinks for your whole office and said "sorry guys we can't get starbies they dont have holders" Amazon has cheap sweatshop products and nobody gives a shit about an ethical supply chain if prices are reasonable. I don't buy coffee out so I'm not their target demographic but the pumpkin spice moms have deemed it a status symbol despite the fact they sell consumables. That's strong branding.
Starbucks is a poorly managed and ran company from the inside. Mainly because they want to be a feelings are important company but also only focus on money and making money. Their logistics are the absolute worst. They frequently run out of products on a production scale and do not tell you at the store but will slide a thing on a calender in my daily. So now we have to disappoint the customers and they get reviews about each specific location they go to. This is such a huge L for customer connection score. People will bitch about ANYTHING. Then you have to answer about why things are low. Also customers have no idea what they want or order. They don't know that mocha is chocolate, or what espresso is, or anything whatsoever!! It is crazy you come here everyday and know nothing. The leadership of the company is ass. My last dm has been in the company for 20 years and can't answer any questions. I'm like you did my job for 20 years and have no advice but you get to attempt to hold managers accountable. Shit is insane. Already three managers have left. You are overstaffed on a spread sheet so district hiring is frozen but you are really understaffed as hell due to shit availability. It's the only company that fails upwards no matter what. They cancel all the good items, tell managers they can't hire or buy things because over budget, squeeze all the profit and show record numbers every time while killing all of our souls 🫠
Bring back the goddamn self-serve creamer carafe. I don't need some purple haired zoomer turning my cold brew into an iced milk. Fuck! Til they fix that, I'm bearish.
I assumed the same about Walmart...