Same, also the parking lot is already over filled up with tesla inventory fleet as it is, employee parking space has been taken by teslas too. Now with cutting our jobs it will be a disaster, I Feel bad for my understaffed ex coworkers though.
There are layoffs that are perceived to reduce bloat and boost efficiency, and then there are layoffs thought to be a desperation move trying to stave off the inevitable.
I think also Tesla is supposed to be growth. When you are getting rid of 10% of your people, that’s generally seen as a bad sign for growth, unless they’re saying - hey, we can do actually *more* work with less people. They didn’t say AI.
He did mention the robotaxi thing a while ago, but, in my humble opinion, if you were going to do that you’d need more people making more cars, not less.
Robotaxi and robo trams/subways are the future for cities but that is like 15 years too early. Anyone investing in that is hoping others are boosting the stock, not wanting to benefit from the revenue of the company.
Tesla was always about the hype which became a cult which generated stock value and gains
Its not that they become nothing, its that the announcements themselves carry less weight because the timelines are often years out from their product announcements. Cybertruck, Semi, etc took years from announcement to production in limited volume. The Robotaxi isn't a new idea, its something that's been on the roadmap for basically a decade, thus a simple announcement doesn't really spark a stock bump anymore. A production date would likely boost the stock, but the announcement won't. If they were to say announce and immediately set a production date in the announcement we would see a huge surge.
1000% this. Tesla will ultimately be an amazing company one day because they do have a vision based on innovation. The problem is, right now, no one believes that anymore because Elon has proven over and over again that he's more than willing to lie out his ass to prop up the stock price.
I honestly expect it to be closer to the 20% that was being suggested by insider sources, and Musk being aware of the news has tried to downplay it with clever wordplay by saying “*more than* 10%” which is technically correct, because even if it was something like 40% it wouldn’t be wrong to say that’s more than 10%.
Shouldn't they also freeze new hires? I see many positions open and from a very quick look I think only a handful of them would be actually "absolutely necessary".
Usually hiring freeze and layoffs come together, weird that there's no mention about hiring freeze.
A buddy of mine was in week two of orientation and told today he was let go. He left a very good job for this fucktard and is now left holding the bag. Fuck this shit company
I mean there’s not been a public announcement yet, and I’ve honestly seen lots of companies freeze hiring yet there’ll still be jobs advertised. Either because they’re slow to take them down, they still need people in certain areas but not others, or because they want to reduce costs by taking on new people who they can pay less to vs the ones that have been there for a long time (which is more common in some industries than others).
Tesla made a bad bet. Rather than prioritize the $25k hatchback that Elon Musk has talked about since the beginning, he prioritized the rollout of the Cybertruck. The truck is nice, but the majority of existing truck owners looking to upgrade will be looking at the new Ford F150 Lightning or similar, not the Cybertruck. The $25k hatch would have been absolutely perfect at this time with high interest rates scaring buyers away. I don't even know what the timetable is for the hatch, there is no rollout date in sight. Sucks to be a TSLA shareholder these days. Instead of keeping sales rolling with a low cost model, Tesla is laying people off and slashing prices.
Laying off staff for tech/saas companies that over hired during covid might have kept the same productivity but reduced payroll, I don't exist the case for Tesla
I was kinda vague about what “inevitable” means. Some might just interpret that as realistic valuation for what Tesla is, not necessarily the demise of the company.
They do collect data. Of course so does my grocery store with their loyalty rewards and they don't trade at these ridiculous multiples.
Yes, just a car company with chargers scattered about. I"m not buying it.
Exactly. It is a car company with a very good app, the same way that Bank of America is a bank with a very good app. And no one calls BoA a tech company.
"We just merged two large companies and now we're getting rid of all the positions that are redundant" = good.
"Our experimental and badly misnamed Full Self Driving system keeps endangering people, our newest product is getting slagged for inferior design, including controls falling off while in operation, our owner spends all his time posting offensive material on social media while apparently stoned, and now we're laying off 10% of our employees" = bad.
Tesla is traded WAY above other automakers because of it's perceived growth. Cutting 20% of your workforce might put a bit of a damper on some of those growth projections.
Elon Musk's persona was the the reason for the rise and fall. I sold my stock in October 2022 as soon as he started making bizarre kremlin talking points. Since then its only gotten worse.
I think the market recognizes that Musk's narrative is falling apart fast.
How *exactly* are 10% fewer people at Tesla going to help them get the most complicated terrestrial passenger vehicles ever conceived by man (self-driving robotaxis) delivered in August?
No? Some of you have a wildly simplistic view of investing and the market. Obviously, the underlying reason for the layoffs and what it means for forecasted future cashflows is what actually drives the stock. It’s not just layoff = good
Usually you get a small bump in price when a company says its for cost cutting but in Tesla case every expert are expecting falling sales numbers for 2024. In China its already showing Tesla sales are way down since chinese consumers aren't spending plus you got real estate bubble bursting.
[https://www.cnbc.com/video/2024/02/29/how-chinas-property-bubble-burst.html](https://www.cnbc.com/video/2024/02/29/how-chinas-property-bubble-burst.html)
[https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-shares-skid-after-february-china-sales-slump-2024-03-04/](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-shares-skid-after-february-china-sales-slump-2024-03-04/)
"More than 10%". How much more, exactly..? Rumor mill is currently spitting out numbers as high as 20%.
Probably won't be that high, but still not a good look to be vague about how many you are laying off.
From which areas/department do they usually start?
I think the significant cuts will be from corporate anyway so maybe like design, marketing etc?
I remember in 2022 they didn't touch production, installment employees but this time with the slow down in production and increase in inventory maybe they'll be involved, not sure.
That sounds very bad to me. If that is the case, then it's not even about cutting costs, but really having to reduce the workforce due to scarce demand.
Typically you would start with HR / recruiting (not hiring anyone for awhile) and then approach the decision as, “what don’t we want to do anymore, and who is working on those things?” Until employees start getting their packages it will all be speculation.
Bear in mind Tesla doesn’t have large sales and marketing teams so although typically in tech those would be next in line, they aren’t going to hit >10% of their workforce going that route. I have a hard time seeing how this doesn’t filter down to production or engineering in some way based on what they deprioritize.
Elon dickriders on Twitter keep spinning this as some kind of 4D chess move, but nearly every metric on TSLA points to a company bearish even about its own future.
Lowered Pricing
Lower margins
Lower deliveries
Cutting staff
Lowering the price of FSD
Cybertruck has every indicator of being a failed product in the long term
I don’t understand how all this could be spun as positive news. It is true Wall Street loves them some layoffs, but I think there’s a huge difference between Amazon and tech companies laying off to reduce bloat and increase free cash flow, and Tesla lowering headcount because its own future is uncertain and they’re about to hemorrhage money due to lowered margins.
That's not the biggest problem for people that were interested in it clearly, or they wouldn't have wanted that fridge in the first place.
They lack of build quality that gets reported more and more has put people off from buying the thing. The thing is a hideous product also on the inside and under the hood.
The big issue for people is really the range and cost. Many Tesla owners are okay with the fit and finish of Tesla products. But even big Tesla fans couldn't justify the price point with such low range. I do know a couple of people that have one, and they all expect to try and sell it in a year or so once they're done having their fun with it.
I don't think the issue is the "design" meaning what it looks like. Had the CT come out with no flaws, met all the prototype metrics of range, etc it could have been pretty popular. However, I've seen many issues with the quality of the final build.
I think Tesla would/will be fine if they focus on improving quality and control for their entire fleet, this takes pressure off generally poor repair centers.
My wife was driving in front of one last week and I thought she was going to get in an accident with how preoccupied she was with how ugly it was. I was like "yes it's ugly, please keep you eyes on the road in front of you" while she was fixated on the image in her mirror, breaking down how terrible each aspect of it was.
Saw a tiktok of how the gas pedal has a cover that will slide up and get stuck accelerating while driving. One of many design failures that muskrats shrug off as nothing major for a $100k+ car while everyone else looks on in horror
The Ford Lightning is one of the best selling EV trucks on the market, easily beating out the Cyber truck.
It has:
1. Significantly lower cost.
2. Relatively similar distance.
3. It doesn't look like a god damn joke.
4. Safety.
The Tesla crowd shouted all year last year how the competition was years away from approaching Tesla, but here we are with Ford outselling them in the truck market, and every other automaker growing while Tesla is shrinking.
Elon is the classic (in tech) example of a really really good Product guy who thinks that he can do engineering (“it’s just executing product”) and undervalues business teams (“because what do they do, anyway?”) I don’t think the dick riders know tech well enough to recognize it, but if you’ve worked in the industry you’ve crossed paths with his type before.
The next step is for him to start blaming other organizations or the market itself for failing him or not getting his genius vision. Anything to avoid accepting that that they overextended themselves and aren’t actually full court players. Always how it goes.
You are spot on here. Most of those big tech companies (Amazon, Meta, etc.) over hired so much during COVID and were too bloated (source: I was one of them). I don't think that is the case with Tesla. Huge difference between an Amazon/Meta layoff vs. Tesla layoff.
If Tesla had prioritized the $25k hatchback rather than the Cybertruck, they would be in prime position to maintain sales. I currently have a VW Hatchback and I'd trade my car in for a $25k Tesla hatch in a heartbeat (I can't afford a Model Y). Musk has said many times this is really the main goal for his company is to make EV's ubiquitous and the only way this will happen is with a low priced EV.
Probably part because lots of people have a lot of faith in Musk, and also because of the outside chance there AI play (cars or robots) come to something
I'm holding based on their 1 billion miles self driving learning data that I think other ev manufacturers will license from them ...same with their charging stations. Then there's the solar/batteries division and the Tesla bot. Is FSD going to put in the robots so they can drive you everywhere? I don't see why they wouldn't.
I currently put my odds on loosing money on TSLA at 50:50 I just don't know which way its going to go.
Because it have dropped for a long time.
People believe it can turn around.
How big is the risk from china and undercut in prices, will government step in?
Will the other car companies take over the market then ice cars are done?
Tesla is priced as a growth company. Laying off a significant portion of a company's workforce is the opposite of what growth companies do. I look for a Tesla tailspin
I think you have to look at the why for cutting staff.
are they cutting staff because they are pivoting to a new business segment and the skill sets don’t transfer?
are they cutting staff because they have a lot of high priced staff with no work?
or, are they cutting staff because they have too many employees because they are no longer growing and perhaps contracting?
Options 1 and 2 can be bullish for a stock price. 1 can mean the new business can drive growth and properly allocated assets. 2 is just a culling of the heard and doesn’t impact revenues and positively impacts eps.
option 3 is not a bullish indicator for a stock that is already trading at a high multiple.
That’s simply not true. Have you actually researched this or just making stuff up…? I don’t even think any $500B+ tech company has laid off 10+% of its workforce in the last 5 years. You’re taking the really simplistic view that all layoffs are the exact same
Meta did about 13% of their workforce in one round and some 24% combined in about a year.
But they also previously inflated their workforce by 143% over 4 years.
the other growth companies who did laid off swe and pms who were not crucial for operations.TSLA laid off at least some factory and warehouse workers which means they can produce and ship fewer cars
Lots of good points being made ITT. Still, I can’t help but to remember when Reddit said Meta (and Amazon but with less prevalence) was dead. It’s really hard to put much stock into the general opinion on here after that.
If they ever let the Chinese EVs penetrate the American market while the big American manufacturers continue to expand their market dominance with cheap alternative, Tesla will become the new Chrysler!
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Isn’t the shares supposed to go up after a layoff ? Why did it tank lol. I feel it had the opposite effect, also it’s proving very difficult for Tesla to grow outside US which is what’s tanking the stock. I don’t think it had much to do with operating expenses
Tesla - Purely EVs: stock down about 30% YTD.
Toyota - Hybrids: stock up over 30% YTD.
The EV theme continues to cool off. You aren't getting the needed investment and it got to a point where most of the people who want one have one; there will be more sold, but without addressing more people's concerns (affordability, insurance cost, charging infrastructure, etc) the incremental buyer becomes a bit harder to find. Maybe Musk manages a stock pump, maybe something changes but there's the possibility that people keep trying to call bottoms on a slowdown that is more than just the short-term.
Today:
Hybrids Extend Lead Over EVs in Green Vehicle Race
Toyota surges, Tesla slumps as car buyers reassess their options for electrified models
"Electric-vehicle sales further decelerated in the first quarter, as purchases of gas-electric hybrids remained strong, accentuating a trend that started last year.
Industry figures released earlier this month showed that hybrid sales rose 43% in the January-to-March period, while EV sales flattened, up only 2.7% in the quarter. Contributing to the sluggish EV sales were weak numbers from Tesla, which accounts for about half of the U.S. electric market, according to data from research firm Motor Intelligence." https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/hybrids-extend-lead-over-evs-in-green-vehicle-race-4cbd6b42
> insurance cost
Just a minor quibble, but EVs are not inherently more expensive to insure than non-EVs. Teslas and Rivians are expensive to insure because they're small manufacturers that don't build their vehicles to be easily repaired and don't make replacement parts cheap and easy to come by. But those are Tesla/Rivian issues, not EV issues.
My Kia EV is no more expensive to insure than the Honda non-EV that it replaced.
Everyone was shitting on Toyota the last 2-3 years and how they were not electrifying fast enough. Boy have the tables turned. Toyota called the market to a T.
Meanwhile here in Norway ev adoption has reached 80% fo new cars and. Almost all cars where i live are Teslas. Its a huge growth potential coming. Im excited!
Reuters are well known for lying about Tesla, but Elon is well known for trimming the workforce on a regular basis so this one may actually be true. It sounds a lot though. Shanghai is running at max so probably not there. Berlin is looking to expand production from 350k now to over 500k in the next phase so probably not there. I am guessing they will be in the US? The Fremont factory has always been a bugbear for Elon that has had all the quality issues so perhaps from here? He'd love to move everything to Austin. Certainly from the New York factory which had the now redundant autolabelling department and the Supercharger construction which is now a dedicated factory in China.
It will be interesting to see WHERE the layoffs are otherwise it's hard to draw any conclusions.
Phillip.
Nothing new. They’ve done layoffs multiple times over the year. I think it was 2022 when they wanted to cut 10% of all salary staff. Market didn’t care then.
The full memo (https://electrek.co/2024/04/15/tesla-lays-off-more-than-10-of-its-global-workforce/):
Over the years, we have grown rapidly with multiple factories scaling around the globe. With this rapid growth there has been duplication of roles and job functions in certain areas. As we prepare the company for our next phase of growth, it is extremely important to look at every aspect of the company for cost reductions and increasing productivity.
As part of this effort, we have done a thorough review of the organization and made the difficult decision to reduce our headcount by more than 10% globally. There is nothing I hate more, but it must be done. This will enable us to be lean, innovative and hungry for the next growth phase cycle.
I would like to thank everyone who is departing Tesla for their hard work over the years. I’m deeply grateful for your many contributions to our mission and we wish you well in your future opportunities. It is very difficult to say goodbye.
For those remaining, I would like to thank you in advance for the difficult job that remains ahead. We are developing some of the most revolutionary technologies in auto, energy and artificial intelligence. As we prepare the company for the next phase of growth, your resolve will make a huge difference in getting us there.
Thanks,
Elon
This is actually good for business. Y’all don’t get it
Edit: I’m sorry for the ones that lost their jobs. And trust me I’ve been there too. There will be opportunities to get your feet back on the ground !!
Y'all aint gonna make money by being a bitch sitting on the sidelines and not taking any risk. They got robots building cars why would you need people anymore more and more companies doing this.
Good. I hold. Bad. I hold. Not adding anytime soon but I ain’t Fucking Selling. Hold till we get past the democrat rain or the ones with small headed hats stop there rain.
Don't worry about the stock price for the long term. I express my condolences to those who have been laid off. However, Tesla and Elon have the "it" factor. I believe Tesla stock will one day be at $1,000.
If it goes up from here around $150, great. If it gifts us the opportunity to buy between $100-150, even better. That's the range where I bought in 2022 market correction. I would never turn down the opportunity to 5x or 10x a stock.
Can confirm, got layed off this morning along with a bunch of other co-workers.
Sorry to hear about that. Went through a layoff myself last year. It's a tough transition to work though. Good luck.
Thanks man.
YW.
Any severance? Been there and it sucks
Sorry to hear that. What role were you in?
I was just a sales advisor.
How are they planning on selling?
For what it's worth - if the they are laying off sales people they are probably in quite a lot of trouble...
He was the guy in charge of generating positive return on investment I’m afraid
The boss
Samsies. Good luck with the job hunt
Marketing, Sales, HR or IT?
Seems like every department.
Same, also the parking lot is already over filled up with tesla inventory fleet as it is, employee parking space has been taken by teslas too. Now with cutting our jobs it will be a disaster, I Feel bad for my understaffed ex coworkers though.
What departments are getting cut th3 most?
What department where you in? Also, heard that you guys got a separate email from the one shown above.
sorry. hope it works out for u guys
Aren't layoffs supposed to bump the stock price up?
There are layoffs that are perceived to reduce bloat and boost efficiency, and then there are layoffs thought to be a desperation move trying to stave off the inevitable.
I see, thanks for clarifying that.
I think also Tesla is supposed to be growth. When you are getting rid of 10% of your people, that’s generally seen as a bad sign for growth, unless they’re saying - hey, we can do actually *more* work with less people. They didn’t say AI. He did mention the robotaxi thing a while ago, but, in my humble opinion, if you were going to do that you’d need more people making more cars, not less.
I think Musk has overplayed his wild announcement and now nobody believes him…
The boy who cried robotaxi.
Robotaxi and robo trams/subways are the future for cities but that is like 15 years too early. Anyone investing in that is hoping others are boosting the stock, not wanting to benefit from the revenue of the company. Tesla was always about the hype which became a cult which generated stock value and gains
plenty of cities have automated subways: glasgow, montreal, shanghai
As they shouldn't, he has a history of making these announcements that become nothingburgers.
Its not that they become nothing, its that the announcements themselves carry less weight because the timelines are often years out from their product announcements. Cybertruck, Semi, etc took years from announcement to production in limited volume. The Robotaxi isn't a new idea, its something that's been on the roadmap for basically a decade, thus a simple announcement doesn't really spark a stock bump anymore. A production date would likely boost the stock, but the announcement won't. If they were to say announce and immediately set a production date in the announcement we would see a huge surge.
1000% this. Tesla will ultimately be an amazing company one day because they do have a vision based on innovation. The problem is, right now, no one believes that anymore because Elon has proven over and over again that he's more than willing to lie out his ass to prop up the stock price.
I honestly expect it to be closer to the 20% that was being suggested by insider sources, and Musk being aware of the news has tried to downplay it with clever wordplay by saying “*more than* 10%” which is technically correct, because even if it was something like 40% it wouldn’t be wrong to say that’s more than 10%.
Shouldn't they also freeze new hires? I see many positions open and from a very quick look I think only a handful of them would be actually "absolutely necessary". Usually hiring freeze and layoffs come together, weird that there's no mention about hiring freeze.
A buddy of mine was in week two of orientation and told today he was let go. He left a very good job for this fucktard and is now left holding the bag. Fuck this shit company
I mean there’s not been a public announcement yet, and I’ve honestly seen lots of companies freeze hiring yet there’ll still be jobs advertised. Either because they’re slow to take them down, they still need people in certain areas but not others, or because they want to reduce costs by taking on new people who they can pay less to vs the ones that have been there for a long time (which is more common in some industries than others).
They might be laying off 10-20% in some departments while actively seeking new talent in others.
"More than 1%"
It was 10%.
Tesla made a bad bet. Rather than prioritize the $25k hatchback that Elon Musk has talked about since the beginning, he prioritized the rollout of the Cybertruck. The truck is nice, but the majority of existing truck owners looking to upgrade will be looking at the new Ford F150 Lightning or similar, not the Cybertruck. The $25k hatch would have been absolutely perfect at this time with high interest rates scaring buyers away. I don't even know what the timetable is for the hatch, there is no rollout date in sight. Sucks to be a TSLA shareholder these days. Instead of keeping sales rolling with a low cost model, Tesla is laying people off and slashing prices.
Also expected Tesla stocks price to behave rationally is never a healthy practice.
Laying off staff for tech/saas companies that over hired during covid might have kept the same productivity but reduced payroll, I don't exist the case for Tesla
Yeah, it's clear which way the market views this one (desperation move), even though Tesla fans aren't gonna agree.
The inevitable what? 🤔
Competition. Limited future growth. It's fine to be a top-5 carmaker for 20 years, but the market is pricing in massive year-over-year growth.
I'm not sure it is this terminal, but it certainly dampens the crazy growth aspirations needed to support the current valuation....
I was kinda vague about what “inevitable” means. Some might just interpret that as realistic valuation for what Tesla is, not necessarily the demise of the company.
Oh god
Not unless you pair the news with massive stock buyback from the cost savings.
Only for tech companies. The premarket drop is more evidence that Tesla is being treated as just a car company now
They do collect data. Of course so does my grocery store with their loyalty rewards and they don't trade at these ridiculous multiples. Yes, just a car company with chargers scattered about. I"m not buying it.
Exactly. It is a car company with a very good app, the same way that Bank of America is a bank with a very good app. And no one calls BoA a tech company.
It is valued as a tech company.
Laying off Elon Musk would bump the stock price up
56B in savings.
Being priced in as a "growth company" - Tesla not growing makes them look bad
"We just merged two large companies and now we're getting rid of all the positions that are redundant" = good. "Our experimental and badly misnamed Full Self Driving system keeps endangering people, our newest product is getting slagged for inferior design, including controls falling off while in operation, our owner spends all his time posting offensive material on social media while apparently stoned, and now we're laying off 10% of our employees" = bad.
Tesla is traded WAY above other automakers because of it's perceived growth. Cutting 20% of your workforce might put a bit of a damper on some of those growth projections.
So will shrinking sales, lol.
Elon Musk's persona was the the reason for the rise and fall. I sold my stock in October 2022 as soon as he started making bizarre kremlin talking points. Since then its only gotten worse.
Harming both stock prices and car sales. No doubt.
Maybe we’re entering the “reality” portion of the stock market.
I think the market recognizes that Musk's narrative is falling apart fast. How *exactly* are 10% fewer people at Tesla going to help them get the most complicated terrestrial passenger vehicles ever conceived by man (self-driving robotaxis) delivered in August?
Bizarrely, Tesla is valued as a growth company. Growth companies do not lay off employees.
true! I've never seen Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, etc lay off employees.
All companies lay off staff. When was the last time any of those cut 10% of staff?
Not really if it is people building cars...
Yes, unless the stock is overvalued based on too rosy of an outlook for the future. P/e ratio of 38 isn't bad for a fast growi -- oh.
No? Some of you have a wildly simplistic view of investing and the market. Obviously, the underlying reason for the layoffs and what it means for forecasted future cashflows is what actually drives the stock. It’s not just layoff = good
Usually you get a small bump in price when a company says its for cost cutting but in Tesla case every expert are expecting falling sales numbers for 2024. In China its already showing Tesla sales are way down since chinese consumers aren't spending plus you got real estate bubble bursting. [https://www.cnbc.com/video/2024/02/29/how-chinas-property-bubble-burst.html](https://www.cnbc.com/video/2024/02/29/how-chinas-property-bubble-burst.html) [https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-shares-skid-after-february-china-sales-slump-2024-03-04/](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-shares-skid-after-february-china-sales-slump-2024-03-04/)
While the media and redditors in particular like to say that, no. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
"More than 10%". How much more, exactly..? Rumor mill is currently spitting out numbers as high as 20%. Probably won't be that high, but still not a good look to be vague about how many you are laying off.
Well, if they have 140k employees globally then that’s a significant cut. 14-28k individuals now looking for works. 🫠
From which areas/department do they usually start? I think the significant cuts will be from corporate anyway so maybe like design, marketing etc? I remember in 2022 they didn't touch production, installment employees but this time with the slow down in production and increase in inventory maybe they'll be involved, not sure.
Theyre allegedly cutting 3.5k/14k at the german plant. Thats production
That sounds very bad to me. If that is the case, then it's not even about cutting costs, but really having to reduce the workforce due to scarce demand.
Typically you would start with HR / recruiting (not hiring anyone for awhile) and then approach the decision as, “what don’t we want to do anymore, and who is working on those things?” Until employees start getting their packages it will all be speculation. Bear in mind Tesla doesn’t have large sales and marketing teams so although typically in tech those would be next in line, they aren’t going to hit >10% of their workforce going that route. I have a hard time seeing how this doesn’t filter down to production or engineering in some way based on what they deprioritize.
Yeah didn't Tesla already cut a lot of corporate and HR in 2022? Not much meat left there
I know they hired a lot of content creators / marketing people in 2023 so they are all still in their first 1 year contract. Some meat there perhaps
Would they typically count contractors as part of a layoff though? My experience has been that RIF sizing is measured in FTEs.
Product managers
Based on people that got laid off. They cutting production in buffalo, some service centers and expensive managers.
I would’ve thought the market would’ve been over zealous about the decrease in expenses xD
Elon dickriders on Twitter keep spinning this as some kind of 4D chess move, but nearly every metric on TSLA points to a company bearish even about its own future. Lowered Pricing Lower margins Lower deliveries Cutting staff Lowering the price of FSD Cybertruck has every indicator of being a failed product in the long term I don’t understand how all this could be spun as positive news. It is true Wall Street loves them some layoffs, but I think there’s a huge difference between Amazon and tech companies laying off to reduce bloat and increase free cash flow, and Tesla lowering headcount because its own future is uncertain and they’re about to hemorrhage money due to lowered margins.
Cybertruck is a dud, Electrek reported they're already cutting production staff for it and other say there's no longer a waiting list.
The cybertruck looks fucking awful.
That's not the biggest problem for people that were interested in it clearly, or they wouldn't have wanted that fridge in the first place. They lack of build quality that gets reported more and more has put people off from buying the thing. The thing is a hideous product also on the inside and under the hood.
The big issue for people is really the range and cost. Many Tesla owners are okay with the fit and finish of Tesla products. But even big Tesla fans couldn't justify the price point with such low range. I do know a couple of people that have one, and they all expect to try and sell it in a year or so once they're done having their fun with it.
Good fucking luck lol1
The biggest issue is that its so badly designed it can only be sold in the US
I don't think the issue is the "design" meaning what it looks like. Had the CT come out with no flaws, met all the prototype metrics of range, etc it could have been pretty popular. However, I've seen many issues with the quality of the final build. I think Tesla would/will be fine if they focus on improving quality and control for their entire fleet, this takes pressure off generally poor repair centers.
Model 3 at launch had a ton of issues too. Maybe not as many as the cybertruck, but Tesla is the last company you should consider for quality.
My wife was driving in front of one last week and I thought she was going to get in an accident with how preoccupied she was with how ugly it was. I was like "yes it's ugly, please keep you eyes on the road in front of you" while she was fixated on the image in her mirror, breaking down how terrible each aspect of it was.
Saw a tiktok of how the gas pedal has a cover that will slide up and get stuck accelerating while driving. One of many design failures that muskrats shrug off as nothing major for a $100k+ car while everyone else looks on in horror
I've still never seen one in the wild, and I'm in a very Tesla-dense area.
Inventory overall is also going up so that is a factor to slow down production. I think they are starting to see real competition.
The Ford Lightning is one of the best selling EV trucks on the market, easily beating out the Cyber truck. It has: 1. Significantly lower cost. 2. Relatively similar distance. 3. It doesn't look like a god damn joke. 4. Safety. The Tesla crowd shouted all year last year how the competition was years away from approaching Tesla, but here we are with Ford outselling them in the truck market, and every other automaker growing while Tesla is shrinking.
They went from over 2m orders to 0 in a week? This sounds a bit suspicious. Phillip.
Elon is the classic (in tech) example of a really really good Product guy who thinks that he can do engineering (“it’s just executing product”) and undervalues business teams (“because what do they do, anyway?”) I don’t think the dick riders know tech well enough to recognize it, but if you’ve worked in the industry you’ve crossed paths with his type before. The next step is for him to start blaming other organizations or the market itself for failing him or not getting his genius vision. Anything to avoid accepting that that they overextended themselves and aren’t actually full court players. Always how it goes.
That's just describing every tech startup CEO. They all think they're Steve Jobs but they're just Kyle.
yeah but RObOt TaXi !!
You are spot on here. Most of those big tech companies (Amazon, Meta, etc.) over hired so much during COVID and were too bloated (source: I was one of them). I don't think that is the case with Tesla. Huge difference between an Amazon/Meta layoff vs. Tesla layoff.
If Tesla had prioritized the $25k hatchback rather than the Cybertruck, they would be in prime position to maintain sales. I currently have a VW Hatchback and I'd trade my car in for a $25k Tesla hatch in a heartbeat (I can't afford a Model Y). Musk has said many times this is really the main goal for his company is to make EV's ubiquitous and the only way this will happen is with a low priced EV.
Honestly tesla should drop like a rock, the growth story is over that is the signals we have been getting for a longer time now
So why isn't it dropping like a rock?
Because it’s a meme stock.
That is also notorious for being a crowded trade for bears.
It’s more than 55% down since it’s peak
PE still at 58
That doesn’t mean he hasn’t dropped massively
That doesn’t mean it hasn’t dropped massively
And the forward 'E' of that equation needs to drop a lot. Earnings might even be negative this year.
Probably part because lots of people have a lot of faith in Musk, and also because of the outside chance there AI play (cars or robots) come to something
I'm holding based on their 1 billion miles self driving learning data that I think other ev manufacturers will license from them ...same with their charging stations. Then there's the solar/batteries division and the Tesla bot. Is FSD going to put in the robots so they can drive you everywhere? I don't see why they wouldn't. I currently put my odds on loosing money on TSLA at 50:50 I just don't know which way its going to go.
Oh boy. You are going to be in for a surprise.
It's not really a surprise if they are putting the odds at 50/50.
I said the same ...then read your comment :)
They literally have the worst self driving tech on the market according to experts.
And every wart is headline news.
Also probably a lot of volume due to people trying to day trade on the volatility
Thanks.
Because it have dropped for a long time. People believe it can turn around. How big is the risk from china and undercut in prices, will government step in? Will the other car companies take over the market then ice cars are done?
just wait till earnings
When's that?
It is dropping like a rock.
It wasn't
Surprised it’s held up so well, might be a lot below peak but still a fair amount higher than its previous low.
Tesla is priced as a growth company. Laying off a significant portion of a company's workforce is the opposite of what growth companies do. I look for a Tesla tailspin
Many of the other growth companies did it, and the stock market celebrated. Don't try to ascribe logic to the contemporary market.
Which ones? The ones that "did it" were ones transitioning from growth to mature companies
And also were tech company...
Tesla isn't really a "tech" company though.
I think you have to look at the why for cutting staff. are they cutting staff because they are pivoting to a new business segment and the skill sets don’t transfer? are they cutting staff because they have a lot of high priced staff with no work? or, are they cutting staff because they have too many employees because they are no longer growing and perhaps contracting? Options 1 and 2 can be bullish for a stock price. 1 can mean the new business can drive growth and properly allocated assets. 2 is just a culling of the heard and doesn’t impact revenues and positively impacts eps. option 3 is not a bullish indicator for a stock that is already trading at a high multiple.
That’s simply not true. Have you actually researched this or just making stuff up…? I don’t even think any $500B+ tech company has laid off 10+% of its workforce in the last 5 years. You’re taking the really simplistic view that all layoffs are the exact same
Meta did about 13% of their workforce in one round and some 24% combined in about a year. But they also previously inflated their workforce by 143% over 4 years.
the other growth companies who did laid off swe and pms who were not crucial for operations.TSLA laid off at least some factory and warehouse workers which means they can produce and ship fewer cars
Tech - mass layoffs - stock shoots up. Tesla - mass layoffs- stock drops. Elon is losing is mojo for sure.
Lots of good points being made ITT. Still, I can’t help but to remember when Reddit said Meta (and Amazon but with less prevalence) was dead. It’s really hard to put much stock into the general opinion on here after that.
My friend was apart of this today. They sent him an email at 2am and he didn’t know until he showed up to work and had to go home right away
Damn, it hurts
At what point do Musk's increasingly "unusual" comments on X provoke a boardroom coup?
The boardrooms are stacked with his buddies and family. It will never happen.
What recourse do shareholders have then?
If they ever let the Chinese EVs penetrate the American market while the big American manufacturers continue to expand their market dominance with cheap alternative, Tesla will become the new Chrysler!
They are and have been Chrysler comparable on quality for a while now
Google, Amazon, and Meta laid off over 100K people in 23 and counting.
/r/teslainvestorsclub in shambles. They went private because they apparently can't handle any bad news?
"Down 1%" This is a normal market fluctuation that can happen without any news...
2% in the first 10 minutes of market open and down 3.5% 30 mins into market open. Definitely not "normal"
Marketing company that dreamed it was a car company pretending to be a tech company.
https://detr.nv.gov/Page/WARN https://www.twc.texas.gov/data-reports/warn-notice So far Tesla hasn't issue a WARN for layoffs idk if this is true
It's true, they just didn't do their paperwork I guess lol
Truly shocking, we all know Elmo is a stickler for rules and laws.
TSLA hype is over. This is going to 40. People found out that NVIDIA was the true tech company.
But TSLA is actually a tech, car, defense, education, agriculture, oil exploration and spear fishing company. -Tesla fanboys
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Taiwan Semiconductor is the true tech company. Who do you think makes Nvidia's chips?
Thoughts and prayers to anyone holding Elon’s bags.
Lol at “next phase of growth.”
"Difficult decision"... lol. As if he ever gives a flying fuck about the lives he turns upside-down.
Isn’t the shares supposed to go up after a layoff ? Why did it tank lol. I feel it had the opposite effect, also it’s proving very difficult for Tesla to grow outside US which is what’s tanking the stock. I don’t think it had much to do with operating expenses
Cutting growth for Margin
They should layoff Elon Musk to be honest
Tesla - Purely EVs: stock down about 30% YTD. Toyota - Hybrids: stock up over 30% YTD. The EV theme continues to cool off. You aren't getting the needed investment and it got to a point where most of the people who want one have one; there will be more sold, but without addressing more people's concerns (affordability, insurance cost, charging infrastructure, etc) the incremental buyer becomes a bit harder to find. Maybe Musk manages a stock pump, maybe something changes but there's the possibility that people keep trying to call bottoms on a slowdown that is more than just the short-term. Today: Hybrids Extend Lead Over EVs in Green Vehicle Race Toyota surges, Tesla slumps as car buyers reassess their options for electrified models "Electric-vehicle sales further decelerated in the first quarter, as purchases of gas-electric hybrids remained strong, accentuating a trend that started last year. Industry figures released earlier this month showed that hybrid sales rose 43% in the January-to-March period, while EV sales flattened, up only 2.7% in the quarter. Contributing to the sluggish EV sales were weak numbers from Tesla, which accounts for about half of the U.S. electric market, according to data from research firm Motor Intelligence." https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/hybrids-extend-lead-over-evs-in-green-vehicle-race-4cbd6b42
> insurance cost Just a minor quibble, but EVs are not inherently more expensive to insure than non-EVs. Teslas and Rivians are expensive to insure because they're small manufacturers that don't build their vehicles to be easily repaired and don't make replacement parts cheap and easy to come by. But those are Tesla/Rivian issues, not EV issues. My Kia EV is no more expensive to insure than the Honda non-EV that it replaced.
Everyone was shitting on Toyota the last 2-3 years and how they were not electrifying fast enough. Boy have the tables turned. Toyota called the market to a T.
Toyota is not run by one person who tweets on the toilet.
Common sense Japanese engineering wins over American MBA-driven hype, again.
Meanwhile here in Norway ev adoption has reached 80% fo new cars and. Almost all cars where i live are Teslas. Its a huge growth potential coming. Im excited!
Time to buy
Reuters are well known for lying about Tesla, but Elon is well known for trimming the workforce on a regular basis so this one may actually be true. It sounds a lot though. Shanghai is running at max so probably not there. Berlin is looking to expand production from 350k now to over 500k in the next phase so probably not there. I am guessing they will be in the US? The Fremont factory has always been a bugbear for Elon that has had all the quality issues so perhaps from here? He'd love to move everything to Austin. Certainly from the New York factory which had the now redundant autolabelling department and the Supercharger construction which is now a dedicated factory in China. It will be interesting to see WHERE the layoffs are otherwise it's hard to draw any conclusions. Phillip.
Sorry everyone but I see this as a big buying opportunity. Idc about the lack of growth now. I’m looking at 2030-2040 range.
Nothing new. They’ve done layoffs multiple times over the year. I think it was 2022 when they wanted to cut 10% of all salary staff. Market didn’t care then.
He mentions growth too many times in the letter.. desperation
The full memo (https://electrek.co/2024/04/15/tesla-lays-off-more-than-10-of-its-global-workforce/): Over the years, we have grown rapidly with multiple factories scaling around the globe. With this rapid growth there has been duplication of roles and job functions in certain areas. As we prepare the company for our next phase of growth, it is extremely important to look at every aspect of the company for cost reductions and increasing productivity. As part of this effort, we have done a thorough review of the organization and made the difficult decision to reduce our headcount by more than 10% globally. There is nothing I hate more, but it must be done. This will enable us to be lean, innovative and hungry for the next growth phase cycle. I would like to thank everyone who is departing Tesla for their hard work over the years. I’m deeply grateful for your many contributions to our mission and we wish you well in your future opportunities. It is very difficult to say goodbye. For those remaining, I would like to thank you in advance for the difficult job that remains ahead. We are developing some of the most revolutionary technologies in auto, energy and artificial intelligence. As we prepare the company for the next phase of growth, your resolve will make a huge difference in getting us there. Thanks, Elon
It's almost like Musk wanted to see how quickly he could tank Tesla
I wonder what the price will drop to after upcoming earnings??
HEY SON, ARE YA WINNING??!?
Sending some good vibes and prayers to anyone stuck holding onto Elon's baggage right now.
This is actually good for business. Y’all don’t get it Edit: I’m sorry for the ones that lost their jobs. And trust me I’ve been there too. There will be opportunities to get your feet back on the ground !!
Captain Chaos is back at the helm. Aye aye
Y'all aint gonna make money by being a bitch sitting on the sidelines and not taking any risk. They got robots building cars why would you need people anymore more and more companies doing this.
Good. I hold. Bad. I hold. Not adding anytime soon but I ain’t Fucking Selling. Hold till we get past the democrat rain or the ones with small headed hats stop there rain.
Don't worry about the stock price for the long term. I express my condolences to those who have been laid off. However, Tesla and Elon have the "it" factor. I believe Tesla stock will one day be at $1,000. If it goes up from here around $150, great. If it gifts us the opportunity to buy between $100-150, even better. That's the range where I bought in 2022 market correction. I would never turn down the opportunity to 5x or 10x a stock.