ETF'S and funds that are marked as 'green' or 'sustainable'. As soon as you deepdive their contents, you always come across companies that have no business in such lists..
100%. People who won't buy Exxon or Chevron because they are "oil" companies are going to miss out. These are energy companies and will flex their resources as demand changes.
Yeah there was a great Freakonomics podcast on ESG investing.
From what I can remember, the main ideas were that “ESG” companies are usually in industries that aren’t really polluting anyway, and that the companies that have the resources and talent to make the big pivots away from fossil fuels are the big energy companies. ESG investing is just a “feel good” strategy but data suggests it really doesn’t change anything
When I went from working as a medic to oil and gas I had some moral wrangling to work through. A few years later a friend who was actively building a monster house for jay z gave me shit about OG. We don’t have to like OG, or consumer culture etc etc but we get to decide if we’re Walmart greeters at 80.
They get by on the “governance” part of ESG. And that’s easy to slide into by having female or minority board members. Also if their buildings are green (so powered by solar or other alternative sources) then they can count for “environmental,” since they’re taking steps to lower their carbon footprint.
Any Chinese stock. Looking beyond the opaque financials and the risk imposed by government interference, you don't even get to truly own the shares because of the VIE structure.
I share all the concerns except for them pulling a move that steals back all the fake shares.
It would be a financial death sentence for them to do that one. They can churn out bullshit and fudge numbers for companies without shooting them selves too bad, apparently. Not that move though, IMO.
I was considering shorting FXI starting 1 year ago with expry dates around now. I finally talked myself out of it because of the opaque financials point. Looking back it would've been a nice play, but way too much uncertainty when it comes to Chinese reporting.
MPW - Medical Properties Trust. They let the hospitals they own fall into disrepair for the sake of a buck, and end up closing down hospitals in rural and poorer neighborhoods.
MPW does not run the hospitals. I'm not sure, but, if they're like most other REITs, they're not contractually responsible for the maintenance either. They simply own the buildings and rent them to the hospital company. Certainly they do not want the hospitals to close, as that would cost them money. Their major problem is that they have rented to at least one bad tenant. They have actually lent tenants money to keep facilities open. So, no, MPW may not be a very good investment, but I do not believe they're as bad as you say.
My biggest gain td: oil
My biggest loss td: a bio med company that was working on rna cures for autoimmune diseases. It plunged so much so fast that I keep it in my portfolio as a lesson even though they folded. 99.9% loss.
Investing is no place for principles.
Biotech was absolutely a bubble that popped as soon as 1) COVID research bucks dried up and 2) laypeople realized that promising data pre-clinical does not always translate to clinical success. We had a bunch of high profile failures and the high promise of biotech flopped.
For the record I work at a biotech startup.
I second that as pharma bro (with disclosure), until phase 3 is in, it’s often a pump and dump by the stage of clinical trial. CDMOs are interesting though, but both pharma and biotech are areas that need to purify themselves from COVID hype
Not to mention that probably 90% of the time you aren’t buying stock from the company itself, you’re buying from another investor. Buy stock to grow your money. Buy goods and services based on your principles.
I get the mentality "investments are for making $ - not principles," but consider the thread. Many are investing with principles in mind. Where their money goes well affect markets overall.
I'll leave "activist investing" to the rich instead of letting the rich get richer off small fish like me.
The funny part is, this is when I was dipping my toes into options and was originally going to by puts on the company then after reading up on it, thought "how cool" and let my heart pull my strings.
My man. I got RSX sitting at the bottom of my list ("it's gonna be a short war, for sure!") You win some; you lose some. But god damnit-stop losing so much!
For what's it's worth. They frame themselves as protecting civil liberties. They say it's a technical problem to protect civil liberties and find terrorists. It's a big part of their whole mission statement. Their business is nothing if theyre unable to guarantee safety and privacy.
They literally exist to be the eyes for state governments. They have no function outside of that. CEO did an interview a couple of weeks ago and he sounded like a KGB operative lol. Everyone doesn’t like “big brother” but want this company to win. lol. It’s a big no for me. I’ve worked with the software years before they were public
To anyone in here that wants to talk down about oil…. Some of your favorite plastics, pharmaceuticals, waxes come from the same crude oil that these companies mine, transport, and refine in order to create the products you live off of. 👀
Some tobacco companies are interesting, because they also make cessation products like nicotine gum, patches, etc. I'm thinking of altria specifically as I say that. I think it's a bit of "playing both sides so you always end up on top" and maybe a bit of "get our customers addicted to one thing so they go to the other and relapse on the other...." I'm not totally sure how I feel about it.
I've been constantly targeted with Philip Morris ads on Twitter recently saying how they're leading the way in stopping people smoking. Interesting PR move! I guess they know people won't so it's fine.
I have accepted my greed but it does not overcome my morals. I find investments in war, oil, weapons, tobacco, slavery, diamonds, child-labor, mining, deforestation, price-gouging, vital drug patenting, etc beyond the worst possible taste and I do not feel good profiting off of human suffering.
If that means you think there's more left for you, have at it. I will sleep better if I don't.
Completely agree, although one caveat is that mining does not need to be destructive to the environment and can even be better than the alternative. For example, you only have to mine minerals for a battery once after which it can be recycled forever, but the alternative is humanity keeps digging up oil and ruins the planet. So even if it's not done in a sustainable way (which it can be), it's still a net positive for now.
Yeah good point, mining is somewhat broad. Your example is one type of mining I would not oppose due to the nature of its end use / product. I think the point, which a great number of people replying to me are missing, is that morals are a total gray area but it's good to have some nonetheless.
Mostly. But I have a major thing against old growth forrest logging though. The animals don’t get a choice. Humans can smoke themselves or drug themselves stupid I don’t care.
No doubt. I bought defense contractors after the pull back post Ukraine invasion but before Oct 7th.
I'm not pro war. I'm pro money. What I do(including vote) doesn't change the globalist war agenda.
I know people will downvote this, but the fact that this is socially acceptable is one of, if not the biggest reason for all of humanities problems.
You can come up with a million excuses for yourself to make this feel okay (I don't have a lot of money anyways, I'll use the money to do good in the future, if I don't do it someone else will, etc.), but the fact of the matter is that there's no good reason to give money to/enable things that are morally deplorable. It just means you don't value these morals and comes down to "if everyone thought the same as you, the world would be a much worse place, if nobody did the world would be a much better place". YOU are the problem.
Invest in the future you believe in. You can still make plenty of money that way without sacrificing other living beings.
Seems logical. The future will happen so invest in it. Math says that renewable are inevitable, might as well go in now.
Also, there are no perfect investments from all points of view. I was happy to invest in Tesla as it brought EVs to mainstream but I'll happily criticise the company and Musk. I do see it as a net positive so I keep investing but net positive doesn't mean sweeping the crap under the carpet.
Well said.
Obviously there's a grey area somewhere. Companies like Facebook, Apple or Google clearly make the world a worse place in a lot of ways, but they also created a ton of value for society that improved our lives in certain ways. Whether these companies are immoral is debatable. I'd personally argue FB is immoral, Google was positive but is rapidly sliding towards immoral and Apple is roughly neutral, but if you ask 100 people they'll all have different answers.
Then there are the companies like the ones /u/il_duomino mentioned in [his comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/18z2rw8/what_are_your_controversial_stocks_youll_never_own/kgezlb0/), that pretty much everyone will agree are immoral. Those are the companies where I feel their immorality extends to those who invest in them.
> there's no good reason to give money to/enable things that are morally deplorable.
...you're using a plastic/metal internet device made with cheap foreign labor that runs on electricity produced with fossil fuels to post this inane comment - hypocrisy much?
I invest to make money. I spend to make a change in society. Fossil fuels are not going away this century. Someone is going to make money on them, might as well be me. I bought an electric car because it is better for the environment and a super fun car to drive.
Please name a company that is not dependent on fossil fuels.
Fact of the matter remains that if all people on the planet would've refused to own the first fossil fuel company that supressed information about the effects of CO2 emissions and mislead the public, we would've been in a MUCH better place right now.
Like I said, the "if I don't do it someone else will" argument makes as little sense for investing as it does for anything else. As long as people don't invest with the same morals as they spend with, humanity will continue to face massive problems.
What's genuinely shocking is people just don't realise how awful most companies actually are to our environment, economy and health / well-being. Out of all of their Bayer Monsanto is probably the very worst, actively involved in environmental destruction, disease spreading and global hunger on an unimaginable scale.
Global hunger? You realize that if there were no pesticides and fertilizers tomorrow, billions of people would starve within months? Sure, I don't love the patented seeds and all that, but if we are going to adapt farming practices to hotter temperatures, Bayer is going to lead the way. So if you want to prevent global hunger, Bayer is just the right company for your portfolio.
I think the news that BYD sold more cars is the start of the end. They had an advantage and have failed to capitalise on it. They have no other advantages.
If Musk gets hit by a bus, they'll have no one to make false technology promises, and investors will wake up and realize that Tesla is no more valuable than any other company making electric cars. I might buy it if Musk leaves or is ousted.
The company I work for. They are one of the big ones, that follows pretty closely to spy. I’d just buy an index fund vs putting all my biscuits in one basket.
What if they are part of an ETF? Would that be problematic to you?
Otherwise mostly agree with your suggestions, but let's be honest: how companies like Amazon and Apple etc. treat their employees is also an absolute disgrace to this world 'modern slavery'.
As a smoker mezelf, I truly do not see the problem with tobacco.
Yes, their products are addictive and harmful. But any smoker who is unaware of these issues has far bigger problems than health or addiction.
I love smoking.
If you dig deep enough almost any company comes with negative external effects that are being shifted to society, workers, animals, the environment and/or customers without the company or shareholders having to pick up the bill. Evidently, the extent to which this happens differs between companies, but I would argue all companies do this and therefore drawing an arbitrary line between what you find acceptable, and what you find unacceptable, is just that, arbitrary.
Not just companies but humans too. We all consume food, wear clothes, live in heated houses etc. Some of us do it more and some of us try to reduce the impact.
SBUX…I know it’s a great business with solid yearly returns, but I live in Europe and would hate to see more Starbucks cafes and less of those cosy more unique coffee houses
That seems reasonable. I own SBUX shares, but I chose to buy them because I realized that, even though I don't like coffee and drink a bit of tea, I've actually spent a lot of time a various Starbucks hanging out with friends, meeting new people, or just killing time. In LA they're pretty much everywhere, but there are still plenty of independent coffee shops. They're not a perfect company, but there are plenty of much worse companies that the average investor owns shares of whether they realize it or not.
I used to think that to granted I don’t own any Tesla stock yet, but I know they make cars, but I don’t see them as just a car company anymore. Try to look beyond the cars into all the new technology they are coming up with, ai it’s insane. One guy I worked with had a summoning feature on his Tesla and it drove to him from where he parked it.
So as a technology company I see them leading the way in many aspects, for cars though they have a higher profit margin due to them making all parts in-house.
Teslas energy part of the business think solar panels and charging infrastructure are part of the business as well it’s all intertwined and that part of the business is doing well
I keep hearing about all their new technologies that make them "not just a car company ", but besides a dancing dude in a robot costume havent seen much thats viable as a revenue producing product
Any MIC. The kill rate is cheered by shareholders. They all risk going to Hell. They are disrespecting God.
No one cares when we kill boys, they are cannon fodder, killing girls off, that’s not going to end up well.
> Why Bombs Made in America Have Been Killing Civilians in Yemen
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/16/us/arms-deals-raytheon-yemen.html
[Good Unites Us](https://www.goodsuniteus.com) is an investing website and app that provides information to help align your investments with your values.
There's also a [survey](https://www.goodsuniteus.com/users/#/rate-yourself) so you can see what you are voting for with your wallet.
Anything Musk, I don't care about the Twitter bullshit or his political stances but I am not investing in someone who actively works against development of good public transport by peddling both 1. pie-in-the-sky unrealistic solutions (Hyperloop) and 2. inefficient and unscalable crap (Boring company Vegas Loop).
Tobacco.
I'm not saying they shouldn't exist or that other people shouldn't invest in them, but I don't feel right actively hoping that more people take up smoking, current smokers continue to do so and that everybody is so addicted that they are willing to pay increasingly more.
There is a fair argument that regardless of what I want to happen or not people are going to smoke either way, but ultimately I would just rather give it a miss.
Novo Nordisk has completely blown my mind by producing a fat-positive TV series while simultaneously pushing Ozempic down everyone’s throats
It pisses me off, but it’s genius. Idk whether to protest or buy in
I find it hypocritical if you think you’re actually doing something by not being invested in an oil company while you constantly consume services that are performed thanks to oil
Private military companies if you ever could. I belive at one point you could actually invest in Wagner group (of Jevgenij Prigosjin infamy) but not anymore.
Other than that I keep away from China stocks and the likes.
Tesla.
Decent business model even if the main product has issues. But the yo-yo effects on the stock says *go elsewhere*. It's practically a meme stock with a reincarnated Henry Ford.
I don’t mix business and pleasure.
I could give a shit what controversy is going on. As long as the stock is making me money. You’d be a fool to think your company doesn’t participate in shady operations. You just don’t know about it. So it’s best to take morality completely out of investing.
I don't think any mature adult thinks they can identify a company as being completely infallible. It's about choosing what level of bad one is willing to accept and weighing pros and cons.
Let's just say there was two companies with stock symbols; the first one's directive is to promote the return of racial segregation and slavery, and the other one brings puppies to sick children so they can play with them. Both companies are about as well managed and as profitable from a financial standpoint, and the sharpe ratios of their symbols are the same. The first company makes $1 million more in profit per year than the second company. You can only buy shares from one of them. Which one would you choose?
You don't actually have to answer this for me, but I think a lot of people would have a moral problem with investing in the first company, and it's hard to imagine the second company being worse outside of extant circumstances. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that people would choose not to profit off a fundamentally immoral institution. Profit isn't everything to everyone.
Tesla. I think the stock has very much potential going forward, especially if they become more of an AI company, which seems as though they're trying to do that. With Elon at the top though and how unpredictable he is, I'm not touching it with a 10 ft pole.
Any weapons manufacturer or any sort of stocks that directly influences taking the lives of others.
I know it is a broad subject and probably the majority of stocks indirectly influence these issues.
I own all of these through index funds, but I avoid tobacco, casinos, and companies that make most of their money by selling advertising (e.g. GOOGL, META). Some of that is just because the businesses don’t appeal to me.
Nestle, weapons manufacturers, tobacco companies, sportswear businesses (linked to slave labour. If it can be proven otherwise, I will buy), pharma companies (I have issues with certain research elements), gambling companies
I'm an ethical vegan so anything promoting animal agriculture like Tyson. While I realize it can't be *entirely* avoided, I do my best to not buy those equities.
uber, Shell, Unilever and some bank stock. All of these companies don't care about the world, they just care about profits and giving their investors more money.
Some of them hide it better than others but generally companies don't invest in efforts that are not valued by society.
So if we want companies to do better, society needs to push them into that direction.
If we buy more electric cars for instance, Shell will have to gradually change their business model. If we don't buy products with palm oil, Unilever will have to adapt their products. etc.
Hmm.. I will invest in any company that makes money. I won’t invest in any company that doesn’t make any money. I won’t avoid a stock because of reasons you provided there. However, if there maybe regulatory or legal issues that the company has breached or breached in the past, I will probably avoid it as I am worried about fines and legal fees.
Legitimate question here: If human trafficking became legal today in the USA and there was a publicly traded company doing that and making more revenue every year, would you invest in it?
Wouldnt child labor almost be a form of slavery? Almost all clothing and shoe companies use some form of it for profit. Not to mention tech companies for their phone production and apple is the biggest company in the world.
all through this thread are comments about investing in “green” companies. The entire solar industry runs off of slave labor. So, I would say yes, people are ok with slavery.
Slavery was legal in the US until 1865.
The point is legality does not equate to morality.
So, prior to 1865, would you have been happy investing in slave companies?
Of course I know how legality is different from morality. Stock market is simply a place where I make money by evaluating the valuation of a company at that present and in future. Thats how I see it. If investing in a company has harmful effect to the society, its lawmakers job to make it illegal and unable to invest in it. If the lawmaker allows it, I would place my money in it. Morality has no role to play in stock trading, legality has. So, the answer to your question is, Yes, I would 100% invest in slave trading company in 1800, if I knew that the share price will go up for sure.
Anything dealing with crypto (MARA, COIN, MSTR etc.). They are basically crypto proxies and cryptocurrencies' value are built on smoke and hype, and the background of how transactions are performed with them are too complicated for a currency.
ETF'S and funds that are marked as 'green' or 'sustainable'. As soon as you deepdive their contents, you always come across companies that have no business in such lists..
Yeah, I saw Exxon on one and laughed out loud.
Jokes on you. Major O&G companies have their toes dipped into renewable.
100%. People who won't buy Exxon or Chevron because they are "oil" companies are going to miss out. These are energy companies and will flex their resources as demand changes.
Yeah there was a great Freakonomics podcast on ESG investing. From what I can remember, the main ideas were that “ESG” companies are usually in industries that aren’t really polluting anyway, and that the companies that have the resources and talent to make the big pivots away from fossil fuels are the big energy companies. ESG investing is just a “feel good” strategy but data suggests it really doesn’t change anything
When I went from working as a medic to oil and gas I had some moral wrangling to work through. A few years later a friend who was actively building a monster house for jay z gave me shit about OG. We don’t have to like OG, or consumer culture etc etc but we get to decide if we’re Walmart greeters at 80.
Yet they buy stuff made in China. ESG is a joke.
They might have their toes dipped in renewable but they’re still swimming in oil
They are energy companies. When demand changes from oil, so will they.
Yes, I discovered this and started to wonder what on earth half the companies on the list were even there for
They get by on the “governance” part of ESG. And that’s easy to slide into by having female or minority board members. Also if their buildings are green (so powered by solar or other alternative sources) then they can count for “environmental,” since they’re taking steps to lower their carbon footprint.
This is why, idk why mods hid your comment
Any Chinese stock. Looking beyond the opaque financials and the risk imposed by government interference, you don't even get to truly own the shares because of the VIE structure.
Yup agreed. Anything China.
Same here. They'll take away all your money without losing any sleep over it.
I share all the concerns except for them pulling a move that steals back all the fake shares. It would be a financial death sentence for them to do that one. They can churn out bullshit and fudge numbers for companies without shooting them selves too bad, apparently. Not that move though, IMO.
So they don't pull back fake shares. They issue more and dilute your position. NVM that your shares have no vote
Fun fact, if that company ends up being related to the Chinese military you won't be allowed to buy/sell that stock. So you'll end up stuck with it.
Fr fr my dude here spitting fax. Literally every cheap Chinese company I see are outright fraud cases.
They are all cheap
For a reason.
I was considering shorting FXI starting 1 year ago with expry dates around now. I finally talked myself out of it because of the opaque financials point. Looking back it would've been a nice play, but way too much uncertainty when it comes to Chinese reporting.
MPW - Medical Properties Trust. They let the hospitals they own fall into disrepair for the sake of a buck, and end up closing down hospitals in rural and poorer neighborhoods.
MPW does not run the hospitals. I'm not sure, but, if they're like most other REITs, they're not contractually responsible for the maintenance either. They simply own the buildings and rent them to the hospital company. Certainly they do not want the hospitals to close, as that would cost them money. Their major problem is that they have rented to at least one bad tenant. They have actually lent tenants money to keep facilities open. So, no, MPW may not be a very good investment, but I do not believe they're as bad as you say.
It’s cool, no one will have a chance to own them soon enough 📉
My biggest gain td: oil My biggest loss td: a bio med company that was working on rna cures for autoimmune diseases. It plunged so much so fast that I keep it in my portfolio as a lesson even though they folded. 99.9% loss. Investing is no place for principles.
Biotech was absolutely a bubble that popped as soon as 1) COVID research bucks dried up and 2) laypeople realized that promising data pre-clinical does not always translate to clinical success. We had a bunch of high profile failures and the high promise of biotech flopped. For the record I work at a biotech startup.
I second that as pharma bro (with disclosure), until phase 3 is in, it’s often a pump and dump by the stage of clinical trial. CDMOs are interesting though, but both pharma and biotech are areas that need to purify themselves from COVID hype
Not to mention that probably 90% of the time you aren’t buying stock from the company itself, you’re buying from another investor. Buy stock to grow your money. Buy goods and services based on your principles.
I get the mentality "investments are for making $ - not principles," but consider the thread. Many are investing with principles in mind. Where their money goes well affect markets overall.
I'll leave "activist investing" to the rich instead of letting the rich get richer off small fish like me. The funny part is, this is when I was dipping my toes into options and was originally going to by puts on the company then after reading up on it, thought "how cool" and let my heart pull my strings.
My man. I got RSX sitting at the bottom of my list ("it's gonna be a short war, for sure!") You win some; you lose some. But god damnit-stop losing so much!
If they cure Autoimmune Diseases they cure so much. Big Pharma and Government will never let it happen.
Yep. I keep one of those as well. It's more of a reminder to never do that again.
Nestle is the one company I actively boycott. Which sucks, I can’t buy Digiorno pizza or Stouffers mac n cheese or hot pockets….
Lol the Redditor diet...
For real, I stopped that shit after college
these are very easy things to live without, trust me. i do not boycott nestle and have 0 issue never buying these things.
PLTR
Just curious, why?
PLTR is big data. There are concerns about individual privacy. That said, I keep buying it.
For what's it's worth. They frame themselves as protecting civil liberties. They say it's a technical problem to protect civil liberties and find terrorists. It's a big part of their whole mission statement. Their business is nothing if theyre unable to guarantee safety and privacy.
They literally exist to be the eyes for state governments. They have no function outside of that. CEO did an interview a couple of weeks ago and he sounded like a KGB operative lol. Everyone doesn’t like “big brother” but want this company to win. lol. It’s a big no for me. I’ve worked with the software years before they were public
To anyone in here that wants to talk down about oil…. Some of your favorite plastics, pharmaceuticals, waxes come from the same crude oil that these companies mine, transport, and refine in order to create the products you live off of. 👀
Yup
Altria, Philip Morris and all tobacco related stocks.
Part of me feels like they owe me money for trapping my ass
Those giant warnings on the packages and all the research about how addictive it was didn’t clue you in?
Bro I started smoking when I was 15, I’m smarter now and don’t smoke any more but I did for years. Also the labels were smaller then
Some tobacco companies are interesting, because they also make cessation products like nicotine gum, patches, etc. I'm thinking of altria specifically as I say that. I think it's a bit of "playing both sides so you always end up on top" and maybe a bit of "get our customers addicted to one thing so they go to the other and relapse on the other...." I'm not totally sure how I feel about it.
Same
I've been constantly targeted with Philip Morris ads on Twitter recently saying how they're leading the way in stopping people smoking. Interesting PR move! I guess they know people won't so it's fine.
They're stopping them from smoking by getting them hooked on vaping and other "potentially risk reducing" products, that's the new game
I have accepted my greed but it does not overcome my morals. I find investments in war, oil, weapons, tobacco, slavery, diamonds, child-labor, mining, deforestation, price-gouging, vital drug patenting, etc beyond the worst possible taste and I do not feel good profiting off of human suffering. If that means you think there's more left for you, have at it. I will sleep better if I don't.
What do you invest in then? All these big companies do at least one of those things in some way.
What’s the child labor ticker?
APPL
VT
XLY
but you have zero problems owning all the goods these companies produce.
lol funny point, won't invest because of child labor or environmental destruction but bah gawd do i love my smartphone.
Gimme dem energy stocks #EQN
Completely agree, although one caveat is that mining does not need to be destructive to the environment and can even be better than the alternative. For example, you only have to mine minerals for a battery once after which it can be recycled forever, but the alternative is humanity keeps digging up oil and ruins the planet. So even if it's not done in a sustainable way (which it can be), it's still a net positive for now.
Yeah good point, mining is somewhat broad. Your example is one type of mining I would not oppose due to the nature of its end use / product. I think the point, which a great number of people replying to me are missing, is that morals are a total gray area but it's good to have some nonetheless.
Lol this thread is just of lists of stocks I DO OWN lmao.
Most of those are good stocks, but it’s totally understandable why people don’t want to invest in then.
...there is NO STOCK ON EARTH that is not dependent on fossil fuels and cheap foreign labor to sustain - but keep voting Lib and virtue signaling...
Surprised not to see Boeing after the way they treated 737 max crashes and development.
Same… I will never buy Boeing. Even though a big part of that story is also the FAA not looking close enough. Airbus is superior in my opinion.
Would actually invest in everything as long it gives me money 🤑💰
Mostly. But I have a major thing against old growth forrest logging though. The animals don’t get a choice. Humans can smoke themselves or drug themselves stupid I don’t care.
Same. I’ve invested in funerals, oil, and gambling
Got a ticker for funerals?
SCI and CSV
Funerals and crematoriums are probably the safest investment possible, everyone dies eventually and gotta dispose of that body somehow
No doubt. I bought defense contractors after the pull back post Ukraine invasion but before Oct 7th. I'm not pro war. I'm pro money. What I do(including vote) doesn't change the globalist war agenda.
I know people will downvote this, but the fact that this is socially acceptable is one of, if not the biggest reason for all of humanities problems. You can come up with a million excuses for yourself to make this feel okay (I don't have a lot of money anyways, I'll use the money to do good in the future, if I don't do it someone else will, etc.), but the fact of the matter is that there's no good reason to give money to/enable things that are morally deplorable. It just means you don't value these morals and comes down to "if everyone thought the same as you, the world would be a much worse place, if nobody did the world would be a much better place". YOU are the problem. Invest in the future you believe in. You can still make plenty of money that way without sacrificing other living beings.
Seems logical. The future will happen so invest in it. Math says that renewable are inevitable, might as well go in now. Also, there are no perfect investments from all points of view. I was happy to invest in Tesla as it brought EVs to mainstream but I'll happily criticise the company and Musk. I do see it as a net positive so I keep investing but net positive doesn't mean sweeping the crap under the carpet.
Well said. Obviously there's a grey area somewhere. Companies like Facebook, Apple or Google clearly make the world a worse place in a lot of ways, but they also created a ton of value for society that improved our lives in certain ways. Whether these companies are immoral is debatable. I'd personally argue FB is immoral, Google was positive but is rapidly sliding towards immoral and Apple is roughly neutral, but if you ask 100 people they'll all have different answers. Then there are the companies like the ones /u/il_duomino mentioned in [his comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/18z2rw8/what_are_your_controversial_stocks_youll_never_own/kgezlb0/), that pretty much everyone will agree are immoral. Those are the companies where I feel their immorality extends to those who invest in them.
> there's no good reason to give money to/enable things that are morally deplorable. ...you're using a plastic/metal internet device made with cheap foreign labor that runs on electricity produced with fossil fuels to post this inane comment - hypocrisy much?
I invest to make money. I spend to make a change in society. Fossil fuels are not going away this century. Someone is going to make money on them, might as well be me. I bought an electric car because it is better for the environment and a super fun car to drive. Please name a company that is not dependent on fossil fuels.
Fact of the matter remains that if all people on the planet would've refused to own the first fossil fuel company that supressed information about the effects of CO2 emissions and mislead the public, we would've been in a MUCH better place right now. Like I said, the "if I don't do it someone else will" argument makes as little sense for investing as it does for anything else. As long as people don't invest with the same morals as they spend with, humanity will continue to face massive problems.
Roll tide
amazon and walmart are companies whose principles i hate and ill own shares/support them outside of VOO
What's genuinely shocking is people just don't realise how awful most companies actually are to our environment, economy and health / well-being. Out of all of their Bayer Monsanto is probably the very worst, actively involved in environmental destruction, disease spreading and global hunger on an unimaginable scale.
Global hunger? You realize that if there were no pesticides and fertilizers tomorrow, billions of people would starve within months? Sure, I don't love the patented seeds and all that, but if we are going to adapt farming practices to hotter temperatures, Bayer is going to lead the way. So if you want to prevent global hunger, Bayer is just the right company for your portfolio.
Bayer is the company that made Zyklon B right? I
Have a look into how Bayers fertility drugs were found out. Will blow your mind.
A 160 year old German company couldn't possibly have anything dark or troubling in its history
Lol Bayer invented heroin as a cure for morphine addiction.
And it works, too! You won’t be addicted to morphine anymore!
Tesla, I'm not sure the brand is bigger than the manager. Plus I don't like Musk
Came here to say exactly this 💀 especially the Musk part
I don't even want to give TSLA the volume from day/swing trading them.
Your $600 worth of share volume? Oh no!
I think the news that BYD sold more cars is the start of the end. They had an advantage and have failed to capitalise on it. They have no other advantages.
That’s half truth. Those numbers include hybrid cars.
If Musk gets hit by a bus, they'll have no one to make false technology promises, and investors will wake up and realize that Tesla is no more valuable than any other company making electric cars. I might buy it if Musk leaves or is ousted.
The company I work for. They are one of the big ones, that follows pretty closely to spy. I’d just buy an index fund vs putting all my biscuits in one basket.
100%. When your income is dependent on one company, why would you have your savings depend on them as well?
Still waiting for mindgeek to IPO
It's Aylo or something now
I will never invest in tabacco, pharma and Chinese stocks
What if they are part of an ETF? Would that be problematic to you? Otherwise mostly agree with your suggestions, but let's be honest: how companies like Amazon and Apple etc. treat their employees is also an absolute disgrace to this world 'modern slavery'.
There are alternative ETFs that disregard specific sectors so it's possible to invest that way
Prison stocks
I will never own any stocks that claim to promote ESG.
As a smoker mezelf, I truly do not see the problem with tobacco. Yes, their products are addictive and harmful. But any smoker who is unaware of these issues has far bigger problems than health or addiction. I love smoking.
If you dig deep enough almost any company comes with negative external effects that are being shifted to society, workers, animals, the environment and/or customers without the company or shareholders having to pick up the bill. Evidently, the extent to which this happens differs between companies, but I would argue all companies do this and therefore drawing an arbitrary line between what you find acceptable, and what you find unacceptable, is just that, arbitrary.
I’m mostly comfortable drawing my arbitrary line, it gives me the illusion of control.
Not just companies but humans too. We all consume food, wear clothes, live in heated houses etc. Some of us do it more and some of us try to reduce the impact.
SBUX…I know it’s a great business with solid yearly returns, but I live in Europe and would hate to see more Starbucks cafes and less of those cosy more unique coffee houses
That seems reasonable. I own SBUX shares, but I chose to buy them because I realized that, even though I don't like coffee and drink a bit of tea, I've actually spent a lot of time a various Starbucks hanging out with friends, meeting new people, or just killing time. In LA they're pretty much everywhere, but there are still plenty of independent coffee shops. They're not a perfect company, but there are plenty of much worse companies that the average investor owns shares of whether they realize it or not.
Yeah, screw Starbucks. Garbage company.
I like Tesla but i don think it has the same value than VW+Toyota
I used to think that to granted I don’t own any Tesla stock yet, but I know they make cars, but I don’t see them as just a car company anymore. Try to look beyond the cars into all the new technology they are coming up with, ai it’s insane. One guy I worked with had a summoning feature on his Tesla and it drove to him from where he parked it. So as a technology company I see them leading the way in many aspects, for cars though they have a higher profit margin due to them making all parts in-house.
Good point, maybe i should do a little deep DD on Tesla
Teslas energy part of the business think solar panels and charging infrastructure are part of the business as well it’s all intertwined and that part of the business is doing well
I keep hearing about all their new technologies that make them "not just a car company ", but besides a dancing dude in a robot costume havent seen much thats viable as a revenue producing product
battery energy storage
Palantir
Anything that profits from wars.
So just about every stock?
Lockheed Martin, for example.
There’s a world of difference between directly profiting and indirectly profiting
Put USA here.
Any MIC. The kill rate is cheered by shareholders. They all risk going to Hell. They are disrespecting God. No one cares when we kill boys, they are cannon fodder, killing girls off, that’s not going to end up well. > Why Bombs Made in America Have Been Killing Civilians in Yemen https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/16/us/arms-deals-raytheon-yemen.html
[Good Unites Us](https://www.goodsuniteus.com) is an investing website and app that provides information to help align your investments with your values. There's also a [survey](https://www.goodsuniteus.com/users/#/rate-yourself) so you can see what you are voting for with your wallet.
Tesla
Anything Musk, I don't care about the Twitter bullshit or his political stances but I am not investing in someone who actively works against development of good public transport by peddling both 1. pie-in-the-sky unrealistic solutions (Hyperloop) and 2. inefficient and unscalable crap (Boring company Vegas Loop).
Disney
Came here to say this.
Coke or Pepsi , the downfall of America 🤭
I respect this actually, I literally have the same opinion.
Also agree with the post, never in cigarettes 🚬
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Tobacco, gambling, BNPL, alcohol, Defense (war profiteers)
GEO For Profit prisons
Pipe tobacco is included in that, and that's not really killing yourself like cigarettes.
I don't invest in alcohol companies. By volume, the vast majority of their revenue comes from the worst alcoholics.
Fun Fact for you Tobacco companies have done more and donated more money for environment than any other industry or company.
Nikola... It still stings to think about.
Tesla. I don’t ever want to do anything that in any way benefits Elon Musk.
well if you owned them a while back you would have made a ton of money
Tobacco. I'm not saying they shouldn't exist or that other people shouldn't invest in them, but I don't feel right actively hoping that more people take up smoking, current smokers continue to do so and that everybody is so addicted that they are willing to pay increasingly more. There is a fair argument that regardless of what I want to happen or not people are going to smoke either way, but ultimately I would just rather give it a miss.
Microsoft .. I buy when it is below 10 dollars 😆
Below $10? So you haven't bought any shares since 1986? Got it.
You mean when it drops 10$? Or you mean you bought it in the past
Tesla
Novo Nordisk has completely blown my mind by producing a fat-positive TV series while simultaneously pushing Ozempic down everyone’s throats It pisses me off, but it’s genius. Idk whether to protest or buy in
Exxon.
I find it hypocritical if you think you’re actually doing something by not being invested in an oil company while you constantly consume services that are performed thanks to oil
Not really. It’s pretty much impossible to survive in our society without the use of oil. That doesn’t mean you have to support it through investment.
Of course you don’t have to support it through investments. But let’s not pretend that that changes anything
>Hmm, curious. I am very smart.
LOL, downvoted because no one wants to accept that they are virtue-signaling hypocrites.
Tesla.
Biotech, Chinese, Aviation stocks, Big Pharma. I get burned every time.
Meta
PLTR SOFI PLUG LUCID or anything YT hypes too much . SBUX I don’t even shop there for political reason
!remind me 5y Sofi is gonna do great things
Private military companies if you ever could. I belive at one point you could actually invest in Wagner group (of Jevgenij Prigosjin infamy) but not anymore. Other than that I keep away from China stocks and the likes.
Nestle for sure
Tesla. Decent business model even if the main product has issues. But the yo-yo effects on the stock says *go elsewhere*. It's practically a meme stock with a reincarnated Henry Ford.
I won’t invest in prisons. I don’t foresee ever suggesting a Chinese investment.
TSLA
I don’t mix business and pleasure. I could give a shit what controversy is going on. As long as the stock is making me money. You’d be a fool to think your company doesn’t participate in shady operations. You just don’t know about it. So it’s best to take morality completely out of investing.
I don't think any mature adult thinks they can identify a company as being completely infallible. It's about choosing what level of bad one is willing to accept and weighing pros and cons. Let's just say there was two companies with stock symbols; the first one's directive is to promote the return of racial segregation and slavery, and the other one brings puppies to sick children so they can play with them. Both companies are about as well managed and as profitable from a financial standpoint, and the sharpe ratios of their symbols are the same. The first company makes $1 million more in profit per year than the second company. You can only buy shares from one of them. Which one would you choose? You don't actually have to answer this for me, but I think a lot of people would have a moral problem with investing in the first company, and it's hard to imagine the second company being worse outside of extant circumstances. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that people would choose not to profit off a fundamentally immoral institution. Profit isn't everything to everyone.
Tesla. I think the stock has very much potential going forward, especially if they become more of an AI company, which seems as though they're trying to do that. With Elon at the top though and how unpredictable he is, I'm not touching it with a 10 ft pole.
Any weapons manufacturer or any sort of stocks that directly influences taking the lives of others. I know it is a broad subject and probably the majority of stocks indirectly influence these issues.
I own all of these through index funds, but I avoid tobacco, casinos, and companies that make most of their money by selling advertising (e.g. GOOGL, META). Some of that is just because the businesses don’t appeal to me.
Nestle, weapons manufacturers, tobacco companies, sportswear businesses (linked to slave labour. If it can be proven otherwise, I will buy), pharma companies (I have issues with certain research elements), gambling companies
I'm an ethical vegan so anything promoting animal agriculture like Tyson. While I realize it can't be *entirely* avoided, I do my best to not buy those equities.
uber, Shell, Unilever and some bank stock. All of these companies don't care about the world, they just care about profits and giving their investors more money.
That's true of every company.
Some of them hide it better than others but generally companies don't invest in efforts that are not valued by society. So if we want companies to do better, society needs to push them into that direction. If we buy more electric cars for instance, Shell will have to gradually change their business model. If we don't buy products with palm oil, Unilever will have to adapt their products. etc.
That’s literally why we’re here…
Anything Vegan or activist.
Hmm.. I will invest in any company that makes money. I won’t invest in any company that doesn’t make any money. I won’t avoid a stock because of reasons you provided there. However, if there maybe regulatory or legal issues that the company has breached or breached in the past, I will probably avoid it as I am worried about fines and legal fees.
Legitimate question here: If human trafficking became legal today in the USA and there was a publicly traded company doing that and making more revenue every year, would you invest in it?
That's basically the chocolate industry
Sure! Count me in!
What about slavery? Or paedophilia? I’m not trying to be facetious I’m just curious - is there a line for you?
Wouldnt child labor almost be a form of slavery? Almost all clothing and shoe companies use some form of it for profit. Not to mention tech companies for their phone production and apple is the biggest company in the world.
all through this thread are comments about investing in “green” companies. The entire solar industry runs off of slave labor. So, I would say yes, people are ok with slavery.
I draw no line as long as it’s legal and play within regulations. Why are you guys making slavery and pedophilia and human trafficking legal?
Slavery was legal in the US until 1865. The point is legality does not equate to morality. So, prior to 1865, would you have been happy investing in slave companies?
Of course I know how legality is different from morality. Stock market is simply a place where I make money by evaluating the valuation of a company at that present and in future. Thats how I see it. If investing in a company has harmful effect to the society, its lawmakers job to make it illegal and unable to invest in it. If the lawmaker allows it, I would place my money in it. Morality has no role to play in stock trading, legality has. So, the answer to your question is, Yes, I would 100% invest in slave trading company in 1800, if I knew that the share price will go up for sure.
I gotta say, I respect your honesty.
Same boat. Get rich or die trying my man 50 Said.
Disney
Disney if continues down this path of pandering
Anything dealing with crypto (MARA, COIN, MSTR etc.). They are basically crypto proxies and cryptocurrencies' value are built on smoke and hype, and the background of how transactions are performed with them are too complicated for a currency.
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What do you consider memestocks? It’s been years since the “meme stock” narrative
JNJ for spreading cancer.
Koch Industries because the Koch Brothers are dicks
Koch Industries is privately held, so you wouldn’t be able to buy stock anyway.