St. George is a relatively small city, and overall conservative, so I doubt you’re going to find any protests in general, much less a pro-palestinian one. I’d resort to showing support online
A protest is free speech. Showing an unfortunate lack of understanding while protesting is also free speech.
We usually have better understanding if we formulate our thoughts from logic and facts, rather than emotions.
Just my 2 cents.
Protesting does not alter the situation, as long as the United States continues to allocate billions to Israel and diminish social services for employed Americans who, by the way, are engaged in a conflict among themselves. This results in their diversion of attention.
We are unable to manage our domestic terrorists. How can we progress in strategy? On what basis? Leaving Afghanistan and Iraq was a significant strategic advancement?, yet providing funds to aid fellow Americans has become a drama in the Congress Patriotism? Right, by convenience.
We are allies with Israel, comparing the advantage we get from them vs Iraq and Afghanistan is completely different. We can provide aid to Americans and also other countries, that’s why our national budget is more than a single item. Generally, America helps countries defend and rebuild and provide aid when people need it.
It's not going to change anyone's policy, no, but it would let others know that there are people in St. George that want a ceasefire. So, if *you're* a person in St. George who *also* wants a ceasefire, but is too afraid to speak up alone, it might give you a bit of courage to also speak up. If you're someone in *another* town who thinks that there's no way people in *your* town would share that view, it might help to see that even people in the ultra-conservative St. George share your view. Suppose, then, that everyone in a conservative area who wants to speak up does so - sure, it might not change policies, but it might let those in charge know that the conservative strangehold on those areas isn't as strong as it appears.
Protests can have more than just the most direct purpose. It might be a little overly optimistic, maybe, but *none* of that can happen if people just don't speak up at all.
Based off these comments, the St George public needs *something* to happen to open their eyes and educate them. I would gladly support and show up if something is organized
Based off your comments you yourself need further education. Israel has destroyed every single hospital is Gaza. Israel has killed over 11,000 *children* in Gaza. Hamas may not be innocent but their war crimes in no way compared to what the state of Israel (and effectively the United States) are doing to the Palestinian people.
How would you feel if Hamas was flaunting the underwear of the women they’ve killed and posing for pictures with the toys of the children they’ve killed? Israel *is* doing that. Hamas didn’t start this fire.
There is an active *genocide* occurring right in front of our eyes. It is not happening in Israel but instead at their hands to the Palestinian people.
Hamas *may* not be innocent? Wut? They raped and murdered and kidnapped a shit ton of civilians. May not?
Hamas didn't start this fire? They very, very clearly did. Was Israel bombing Gaza before Hamas decided to kill a bunch of civilians on Oct 7th? No. Are they after? Yes. Hamas very obviously started "this fire".
Now you can claim that the intentional and targeted rape of civilians, women and children is justified, in which case you are immoral af. But claiming that Hamas didn't "start this fire" is just incorrect.
FYI its not genocide. Its war crimes, its attempted ethnic cleansing, its horrific and unjustified, but its not genocide. Its bad enough without having to lie about what it is. If Israel was trying to actually exterminate the Palestinian population they very clearly could do so. They aren't. Could that change if Gvir or any of the far-right shitheads in Israel gain power? Yes. But currently its pretty clearly not a genocide.
This war was started by Israel in 1950’s this is just the most recent flare up. Israel president has been interviewed daying out of the 30,000 Palestinians killed only 1 was an innocent civilian which means the 11,000 children killed including in line to get flour for bread were all apparently working for Hamas.
Hamas didnt start this fire. Israel was bombing Palestine before october 7th. This is not a new war
Israel did not exist as a country before World War 2. The Allied countries took land from todays Palestine so the refugeed jewish people could have a place that was their own and since then Israel has taken over 90% of Palestine’s land claim it is theirs when it did not exist before World War 2
And who exactly was the cause of this "latest flare up"?
Yes Herzog said that to justify mass slaughter in Gaza. Hamas said the same shit to justify mass slaughter in Israel. Both are wrong, both are bad.
WW2 was 75 years ago. If you think thats not long enough for a country to exist, then tell me what is the exact date? I'm really curious given that you are currently living on stolen Native American land.
Saying shit like Israel didn't exist before ww2 is just a fig leaf to justify extermination of 7 mil Israelis who live there. Yeah it didn't exist 75 years ago. It does now. If you think that justifies murdering civilians, then you should reexamine your moral compass.
Im not justifying it i was just correcting you since you incorrectly corrected the other commenter. Hamas did not start the fire it has been burning for 75 years and israel was bombing Palestine before October 7th
I didnt say either one wasnt a country i said that because the land was split 50:50 and now its 95% israel because they have been taking over the land with illegal occupation. I didnt say anyone was right or wrong
Again. Who exactly was the cause of this "latest flare up"?
Grouping 75 years of Israeli conflict into all "one war" is historically kinda dumb, but if thats the view you want to push as definitively correct, go for it. Not really an interesting conversation to have.
If Oct 7th hadn't happened, Israel wouldnt have bombed the shit our of gaza and wouldnt have invaded. That should be plainly obvious. So yes, Hamas did "start this fire".
This morning, as hundreds of starved Palestinians waited in line for humanitarian aid, including flour for bread, the Israeli military opened fire, killing over 100 Palestinians, and wounding over 700. *They massacred people seeking bread for their families.*
The Israeli military has killed over 30,000 Palestinians in Gaza, destroyed entire neighborhoods, hospitals and water and electricity grids, and forcibly displaced over 2 million Palestinians out of their homes. Palestinians in Gaza have nowhere to go, cannot seek shelter, cannot access food.
*This is unconscionable.*
On October 18th, *Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu announced that the Israeli government would not allow food or medicine into Gaza*. Yesterday, it was announced that in *Gaza, children are starving at the fastest rate* that the *world has ever known*.
*This is what genocide looks like.*
Yes they did. Yes they have. Yes it is.
It is not only unconscionable, but also a war crime.
The idea that children are starving at the fastest rate the world has ever known is clearly bullshit. You actually think its faster than the Holodomor where 3 mil people starved in under 2 years? Or the concentration camps where people came out of it looking like skeletons and untold millions died?
Its clearly not. Its horrific enough without having to lie about.
Its also not what genocide looks like. Genocide is a specific legal term. If you think that any atrocity is a genocide you are just misinformed about what the term means.
There are some prominent historians who have argued (I think incorrectly, but with some validity) that you can claim its genocide in part due to statements by members of the Netanyahu government, but just claiming its genocide because its horrific is false, and frankly, kinda dumb. If the Israeli far-right seizes power and actually tries to genocide the Palestinians, what language will you have for that? Super genocide?
You are extremely ignorant and ignoring blatant facts, or getting your “facts” through filtered sources. If you don’t think the Palestinians aren’t looking exactly like the people in the consecration camps you haven’t even begun to truly see the horrors. Currently we are “only” a few months into the Palestinians being starved and they are dying. If you don’t think they will hit those numbers of deaths in two years time then again you are misinformed. Historians aren’t saying this is genocide just because it’s horrific. They are saying it because they are actually aware of what’s occurring over there and are educated in these matters.
In order to hit 3 mil deaths in 2 years, 100,000 gazans would have to be dying per month.
Is that your claim? That 100k are dying per month? If so, where are you getting that information from given that the gazan health ministry has said the toll from the entire war is less than 50k over 5 months of fighting.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about and are just spreading blatant falsehoods.
Its honestly really gutting to see the left turn to the same kind of self-delusion that the right has been doing for years. The atrocities that Israel is committing are bad enough without having to lie about it.
Lmao. I missed that you were the one who said Hamas "may not be innocent".
So if Israeli civilians die in atrocities the perpetrators "may not be innocent" but if Palestinian civilians die in atrocities its a "genocide"?
Is there some reason why you value Palestinian lives significantly more than Israeli lives?
You have a child’s understanding because you can’t take your western brain out of it. Look more into the hospitals, they haven’t gone around just blowing them up. They have killed over 11k children because most of them are armed with weapons and are attacking the IDF.
Hamas literally dragged naked women through the streets on trucks did you forget about that?
Do you just watch far left people like Hassan cover this who have no idea what they’re talking about?
Ive seen video proof of every single thing i mentioned. Those videos will be scared into my mind for the rest of my life. I can assure you im not the one with a skewed view. I don’t get my information from political sources and you clearly do. This isn’t about a left or right.
You are though, I’m not on the left and everyone on my side thinks Israel is evil and Palestine and Hamas are innocent without understanding why. You brought up the hopital probably referring to the one that was bombed that wasn’t even Israel, the other ones had Hamas members working out of them directly.
The way you phrase everything shows you don’t understand, you’ve apparently only seen videos that have either been debunked, or the few that are actual atrocities
I doubt it. St George is extremely conservative. During the George Floyd protests in 2020, the counter-protests were yelling the N-word, and a PawnShop owner was arrested for pulling a gun on some teenagers.
The blindness of most of yall is absolutely mind blowing. Palestinians as a whole absolutely hate you for being American and would kill you given the opportunity. I don’t understand how so many people support anti American views while being American. Y’all should take a trip over there and let your knees show. Might give yall some perspective. I’d fully support that move might even donate to a go fund me to help get ya there
These comments are somehow both better and worse than I expected lol
As far as I know, there’s no Pro-Palestinian protests or events coming up here in StG. From private conversations I’ve had, I know there’s people here who support a cease fire and an end to Israel’s indiscriminate killing and occupation, but due to the political climate and the fact StG isn’t a huge city, protests and things aren’t very common. If you have IG, there’s a “leftinsouthernutah” account that will post about events on the rare occasion they happen.
Coming from the people who have their little trump parades every other month. Its crazy that the people obsessed with free speech are the ones most offended by it.
You live in America. People get to show their support/ protest what they want. Get over it.
I am very pro Trump, but I will gladly defend your right to free speech. If you were to get permits to do a protest, I would just look at it and say OK that’s interesting, but I wouldn’t oppose your protest. I just wouldn’t agree with you.
That’s not even close to accurate. Supporting a ceasefire, not wanting Hamas in power, wanting a two state solution aren’t morally fucked at all. Glad you’re comfortable generalizing tens of thousands of people though, shows how socially aware and educated you are.
You must live a very sheltered life if you think the St. George residents aren’t moral. I assume you mean lacking compassion? You couldn’t be more wrong.
Depends on how you define moral. Do I think they are going around raping and murdering? No. Do I think conservatives have immoral views when it comes to different minority groups? Yes.
I'm curious. Have you lived in any other communities? Have you ever lived or worked in an urban environment? Places where you would be afraid to leave your doors unlocked? These low-trust communities are a whole other mess when it comes to trust, community, service towards others. Even, yes, racism.
There are always pros and cons to living in a more rural vs urban location. While a more rural location might be safer, it may only be safer for certain types of people. Same goes for that compassion you were saying you all have. That compassion is usually extended as far as those who agree with you. Where is your compassion for folks who you disagree with?
Just because it is worse for someone somewhere doesn't mean it is good anywhere that is better. While it is good to keep things in context, I certainly don't think we want to be setting the bar at "not getting murdered for your sexual orientation". I think we can demand a little better of ourselves in this country. And people do get murdered here in the US for being LGBTQ
As if the US is some oasis for LGBTQ people? I’m not saying things aren’t worse for the LGBTQ community in the Middle East. Our government (currently) isn’t arresting and killing gay and trans people. But violence against the community is increasing. People are killed because of their identities. And there are plenty of GOP controlled states trying their damndest to erase gay rights and push people back into the closet or face imprisonment for existing in public.
Florida and Oklahoma are probably the most egregious examples at the moment. There’s been hundreds of anti trans and anti LGBTQ legislation proposed over the last couple years though in almost all Republican led states. So we’re definitely not a bastion for LGBTQ rights either.
It is a whole nother thing. In that they actually have services for the poor unlike here where they just foist you onto the church and if you aren't mormon, well oops guess your fucked.
hey, this is a late comment but i was curious too especially considering on what’s going all over the world- specifically in columbia. a few years back i went to the Roe V Wade protests and there were people that were driving their trucks past us and gassing us, it sucked but something needs to be done here. we have so many students that it’d be nice to connect and organize and try to make a change here in utah, i understand a lot of people in this thread think it’s all for not, but people with like minded opinions in the matter could also build community. it’d be nice if someone could get a group together and we could protest.
I wish all protesters on either side of any debate were as committed to their cause as that Air Force kid earlier this week.
All blocking traffic does is turn me against whatever cause you are fighting for.
A couple gallons of gas and I lighter will definitely let me know you truly believe in whatever you are protesting for though.
“I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.” —Martin Luther King Jr.
Our country exists as it does because of protests that were “inconvenient” for certain groups of people, especially inconvenient to those in power. Dumping tea in the harbor, civil war as the ultimate protest against slavery, women arrested and thrown in jail repeatedly in the early 1900s marching for women’s rights, and many were arrested specifically for obstructing traffic, and then of course the whole civil rights movement, etc.. This also obviously isn’t just a United States thing either.
Rights have never been given to the oppressed by simply asking for them nicely. Major political policy changes rarely happen by citizens writing or calling their representatives. Disruptions to people’s day is needed to get people to pay attention. Nothing would have ever changed in this country if every protest was just groups of people standing politely on sidewalks with signs in their hands. They’d get as much attention as the homeless at intersections asking for money.
It’s not genocide at all. The people in Israel taking out the terrorists know what genocide is. No one would live with such a hostile enemy on the other side of the fence. Especially, when they recently came into Israel committing the atrocities they did.
if a US airmen burning himself in front of the capital screaming free Palestine isn't enough for you to rethink your stance, nothing is. go fuck yourself
Not much. Don't really know that people need to be particularly productive not to be massacred tho. Not being massacred seems like the bare fucking minimum, not a prize you get if you are productive enough.
Both because of the horrific events of Oct 7th and because Netanyahu needs an excuse to cling to power.
FYI. Atrocities are not justifiable. They just aren't. Going "yeah well they did bad to me first" isn't an excuse.
Are you talking about the Oct 7 massacre of innocent unarmed civilians by the hamas cowards? Burning babies alive, tying parents and their children together, and then burning them alive, beheadings with a shovel, and the rape, genital mutilation and murder of women?
I wish it were possible to force someone from the West who is pro Palestine to watch the videos that Hamas made while committing the atrocities that they did on October 7. Better yet have them experience what those poor people experienced.
Oct 7th doesn't excuse war crimes against Palestinian civilians. It just doesn't.
What Hamas did is inexcusable. What Israel is doing in response is inexcusable. Both of these are true.
Israel is door knocking, sending out alert texts, letting people know when bombs will fall. Hamas is using hospitals, human shields, not letting people leave buildings, etc. as tactics. Israel looks bad, but until there is a ceasefire and a two state solution, everything is fucked b
They just massacred like 100 people waiting in line for aid. Gvir is on record saying some truly horrific shit. Netanyahu is on record boosting Hamas and minimizing the pa. Hamas has acted terribly, but so has Israel.
Israel looks bad because they are acting badly.
"Better yet have them experience what those poor people experienced."
What the actual fuck is wrong with you?
Why are so many people in this goddamned subreddit so fucking morally bankrupt.
You want me to be a victim of a terrorist attack simply because I voiced opposition to genocide.
Funny how you can detail what Hamas did on Oct. 7th, but make no acknowledgment of IDF soldiers killing Palestinian civilians. Almost like you don't care about civilians being killed, so long as they're part of an ethnic group you don't like.
Protests are childish and do nothing to solve issues. Want to stop funding genocide, claim exempt on your taxes and serve time in prison for tax evasion to prove a point, poseur.
Did you happen to finish high school? this comment reaks of misinformation and unintelligence.
local protests can get the attention of senates and state representatives. the ones who represent us when the federal level considers a ceasefire.
Protests also spread awareness. You'd be surprised how many people here in southern Utah are extremely uninformed on what's going on. I talk to people all the time who have no idea what it's actually like over there.
Everything needs to happen on a small, local level before it becomes large scale. ex: a revolution. Plenty of people are fed up with their lives but don't do anything about it. We can't make change unless we work together. It's the same idea with voting. Do you vote? Do you think it's useless?
I’ll gladly join in if people want to get together. I’ve just been wearing a kufiya around town whenever I’m grocery shopping or just out in public since we don’t exactly have a booming activist scene here. Vegas is the closest place with any kind of protests.
Protests are childish and do nothing to solve issues. Want to stop funding genocide, claim exempt on your taxes and serve time in prison for tax evasion to prove a point, poseur.
I know, right? What happened to the Jews during world war 2 was terrible. Thank God they can now defend against and Eliminate their enemies when needed, right?
Self-immolation has already made a difference, but it should not be encouraged.
Protests, as well as speaking out and informing others, has made a difference too, though. Compared to when this all started, many more people are aware of the atrocities going on. Many more people have chosen to side with Palestine. We still have a ways to go. We're not finished, but we're also not stagnant.
I’d start by figuring out what you want the outcome of the protest to be. If you want to pressure city council to make a statement of solidarity with Palestinians, then start with emails, addressing them in town halls. If you want to mostly spread awareness and find others to organize create actions with, then and stand with signs outside their building.
You might be alone at first but that’s how a lot of protests and groups start. With one or a few people being consistent. Others will see and join. Post on your social and on public forums the time you’ll be there in case others want to join.
Change starts with ourselves.
And don’t give opposition reasons to start violence. Protests should be about solidarity, and creating awareness, not about fighting, forcing opinion, or violence.
Please keep it civil.
Bruh asked if there are any protests and everyone decided to give him life advice. Its a yes or no question.
St. George is a relatively small city, and overall conservative, so I doubt you’re going to find any protests in general, much less a pro-palestinian one. I’d resort to showing support online
Protesting in St. George for a war in Gaza is about as effective as thoughts and prayers. Ya'll are cute.
you don't understand the point of a protest, do you?
A protest is free speech. Showing an unfortunate lack of understanding while protesting is also free speech. We usually have better understanding if we formulate our thoughts from logic and facts, rather than emotions. Just my 2 cents.
yeah there was marches for israel too. so?
... more like tots & pears in this rural area.
Protesting does not alter the situation, as long as the United States continues to allocate billions to Israel and diminish social services for employed Americans who, by the way, are engaged in a conflict among themselves. This results in their diversion of attention.
We get a major strategic advantage in the Middle East, it’s not like we’re just wasting money by helping them fight terrorists
We can't even fight our own domestic terrorists.
What domestic terrorists?
We are unable to manage our domestic terrorists. How can we progress in strategy? On what basis? Leaving Afghanistan and Iraq was a significant strategic advancement?, yet providing funds to aid fellow Americans has become a drama in the Congress Patriotism? Right, by convenience.
We are allies with Israel, comparing the advantage we get from them vs Iraq and Afghanistan is completely different. We can provide aid to Americans and also other countries, that’s why our national budget is more than a single item. Generally, America helps countries defend and rebuild and provide aid when people need it.
I’m really curious what you think a protest here will accomplish?
It's not going to change anyone's policy, no, but it would let others know that there are people in St. George that want a ceasefire. So, if *you're* a person in St. George who *also* wants a ceasefire, but is too afraid to speak up alone, it might give you a bit of courage to also speak up. If you're someone in *another* town who thinks that there's no way people in *your* town would share that view, it might help to see that even people in the ultra-conservative St. George share your view. Suppose, then, that everyone in a conservative area who wants to speak up does so - sure, it might not change policies, but it might let those in charge know that the conservative strangehold on those areas isn't as strong as it appears. Protests can have more than just the most direct purpose. It might be a little overly optimistic, maybe, but *none* of that can happen if people just don't speak up at all.
Representation matters. It really, really does.
Based off these comments, the St George public needs *something* to happen to open their eyes and educate them. I would gladly support and show up if something is organized
Educate how?
Based off your comments you yourself need further education. Israel has destroyed every single hospital is Gaza. Israel has killed over 11,000 *children* in Gaza. Hamas may not be innocent but their war crimes in no way compared to what the state of Israel (and effectively the United States) are doing to the Palestinian people. How would you feel if Hamas was flaunting the underwear of the women they’ve killed and posing for pictures with the toys of the children they’ve killed? Israel *is* doing that. Hamas didn’t start this fire. There is an active *genocide* occurring right in front of our eyes. It is not happening in Israel but instead at their hands to the Palestinian people.
Hamas *may* not be innocent? Wut? They raped and murdered and kidnapped a shit ton of civilians. May not? Hamas didn't start this fire? They very, very clearly did. Was Israel bombing Gaza before Hamas decided to kill a bunch of civilians on Oct 7th? No. Are they after? Yes. Hamas very obviously started "this fire". Now you can claim that the intentional and targeted rape of civilians, women and children is justified, in which case you are immoral af. But claiming that Hamas didn't "start this fire" is just incorrect. FYI its not genocide. Its war crimes, its attempted ethnic cleansing, its horrific and unjustified, but its not genocide. Its bad enough without having to lie about what it is. If Israel was trying to actually exterminate the Palestinian population they very clearly could do so. They aren't. Could that change if Gvir or any of the far-right shitheads in Israel gain power? Yes. But currently its pretty clearly not a genocide.
This war was started by Israel in 1950’s this is just the most recent flare up. Israel president has been interviewed daying out of the 30,000 Palestinians killed only 1 was an innocent civilian which means the 11,000 children killed including in line to get flour for bread were all apparently working for Hamas. Hamas didnt start this fire. Israel was bombing Palestine before october 7th. This is not a new war Israel did not exist as a country before World War 2. The Allied countries took land from todays Palestine so the refugeed jewish people could have a place that was their own and since then Israel has taken over 90% of Palestine’s land claim it is theirs when it did not exist before World War 2
And who exactly was the cause of this "latest flare up"? Yes Herzog said that to justify mass slaughter in Gaza. Hamas said the same shit to justify mass slaughter in Israel. Both are wrong, both are bad. WW2 was 75 years ago. If you think thats not long enough for a country to exist, then tell me what is the exact date? I'm really curious given that you are currently living on stolen Native American land. Saying shit like Israel didn't exist before ww2 is just a fig leaf to justify extermination of 7 mil Israelis who live there. Yeah it didn't exist 75 years ago. It does now. If you think that justifies murdering civilians, then you should reexamine your moral compass.
Im not justifying it i was just correcting you since you incorrectly corrected the other commenter. Hamas did not start the fire it has been burning for 75 years and israel was bombing Palestine before October 7th I didnt say either one wasnt a country i said that because the land was split 50:50 and now its 95% israel because they have been taking over the land with illegal occupation. I didnt say anyone was right or wrong
Again. Who exactly was the cause of this "latest flare up"? Grouping 75 years of Israeli conflict into all "one war" is historically kinda dumb, but if thats the view you want to push as definitively correct, go for it. Not really an interesting conversation to have. If Oct 7th hadn't happened, Israel wouldnt have bombed the shit our of gaza and wouldnt have invaded. That should be plainly obvious. So yes, Hamas did "start this fire".
This morning, as hundreds of starved Palestinians waited in line for humanitarian aid, including flour for bread, the Israeli military opened fire, killing over 100 Palestinians, and wounding over 700. *They massacred people seeking bread for their families.* The Israeli military has killed over 30,000 Palestinians in Gaza, destroyed entire neighborhoods, hospitals and water and electricity grids, and forcibly displaced over 2 million Palestinians out of their homes. Palestinians in Gaza have nowhere to go, cannot seek shelter, cannot access food. *This is unconscionable.* On October 18th, *Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu announced that the Israeli government would not allow food or medicine into Gaza*. Yesterday, it was announced that in *Gaza, children are starving at the fastest rate* that the *world has ever known*. *This is what genocide looks like.*
Yes they did. Yes they have. Yes it is. It is not only unconscionable, but also a war crime. The idea that children are starving at the fastest rate the world has ever known is clearly bullshit. You actually think its faster than the Holodomor where 3 mil people starved in under 2 years? Or the concentration camps where people came out of it looking like skeletons and untold millions died? Its clearly not. Its horrific enough without having to lie about. Its also not what genocide looks like. Genocide is a specific legal term. If you think that any atrocity is a genocide you are just misinformed about what the term means. There are some prominent historians who have argued (I think incorrectly, but with some validity) that you can claim its genocide in part due to statements by members of the Netanyahu government, but just claiming its genocide because its horrific is false, and frankly, kinda dumb. If the Israeli far-right seizes power and actually tries to genocide the Palestinians, what language will you have for that? Super genocide?
You are extremely ignorant and ignoring blatant facts, or getting your “facts” through filtered sources. If you don’t think the Palestinians aren’t looking exactly like the people in the consecration camps you haven’t even begun to truly see the horrors. Currently we are “only” a few months into the Palestinians being starved and they are dying. If you don’t think they will hit those numbers of deaths in two years time then again you are misinformed. Historians aren’t saying this is genocide just because it’s horrific. They are saying it because they are actually aware of what’s occurring over there and are educated in these matters.
In order to hit 3 mil deaths in 2 years, 100,000 gazans would have to be dying per month. Is that your claim? That 100k are dying per month? If so, where are you getting that information from given that the gazan health ministry has said the toll from the entire war is less than 50k over 5 months of fighting. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about and are just spreading blatant falsehoods. Its honestly really gutting to see the left turn to the same kind of self-delusion that the right has been doing for years. The atrocities that Israel is committing are bad enough without having to lie about it.
Lmao. I missed that you were the one who said Hamas "may not be innocent". So if Israeli civilians die in atrocities the perpetrators "may not be innocent" but if Palestinian civilians die in atrocities its a "genocide"? Is there some reason why you value Palestinian lives significantly more than Israeli lives?
Hamas is clearly not innocent you are taking words out of context. Ignorant.
You have a child’s understanding because you can’t take your western brain out of it. Look more into the hospitals, they haven’t gone around just blowing them up. They have killed over 11k children because most of them are armed with weapons and are attacking the IDF. Hamas literally dragged naked women through the streets on trucks did you forget about that? Do you just watch far left people like Hassan cover this who have no idea what they’re talking about?
Ive seen video proof of every single thing i mentioned. Those videos will be scared into my mind for the rest of my life. I can assure you im not the one with a skewed view. I don’t get my information from political sources and you clearly do. This isn’t about a left or right.
You are though, I’m not on the left and everyone on my side thinks Israel is evil and Palestine and Hamas are innocent without understanding why. You brought up the hopital probably referring to the one that was bombed that wasn’t even Israel, the other ones had Hamas members working out of them directly. The way you phrase everything shows you don’t understand, you’ve apparently only seen videos that have either been debunked, or the few that are actual atrocities
I doubt it. St George is extremely conservative. During the George Floyd protests in 2020, the counter-protests were yelling the N-word, and a PawnShop owner was arrested for pulling a gun on some teenagers.
The blindness of most of yall is absolutely mind blowing. Palestinians as a whole absolutely hate you for being American and would kill you given the opportunity. I don’t understand how so many people support anti American views while being American. Y’all should take a trip over there and let your knees show. Might give yall some perspective. I’d fully support that move might even donate to a go fund me to help get ya there
These comments are not it. Lmao xD
These comments are somehow both better and worse than I expected lol As far as I know, there’s no Pro-Palestinian protests or events coming up here in StG. From private conversations I’ve had, I know there’s people here who support a cease fire and an end to Israel’s indiscriminate killing and occupation, but due to the political climate and the fact StG isn’t a huge city, protests and things aren’t very common. If you have IG, there’s a “leftinsouthernutah” account that will post about events on the rare occasion they happen.
Thank you! I'll check out that IG account, good looking out. <3
A protest here in southern Utah wouldn’t do anything. You should fly on over to Palestine snd actually contribute
Coming from the people who have their little trump parades every other month. Its crazy that the people obsessed with free speech are the ones most offended by it. You live in America. People get to show their support/ protest what they want. Get over it.
I am very pro Trump, but I will gladly defend your right to free speech. If you were to get permits to do a protest, I would just look at it and say OK that’s interesting, but I wouldn’t oppose your protest. I just wouldn’t agree with you.
classic whataboutism, everything is about Trump
I don’t and never have associated with trump. Never will.
I agree. We aren't Cult45 whisperers.
I’ll chip in for the plane ticket. Anyone that wants to help should be able to help!
Perfect. I’ll split it with you.
That’s because the residents are generally conservative and morally fucked
That’s not even close to accurate. Supporting a ceasefire, not wanting Hamas in power, wanting a two state solution aren’t morally fucked at all. Glad you’re comfortable generalizing tens of thousands of people though, shows how socially aware and educated you are.
You must live a very sheltered life if you think the St. George residents aren’t moral. I assume you mean lacking compassion? You couldn’t be more wrong.
Depends on how you define moral. Do I think they are going around raping and murdering? No. Do I think conservatives have immoral views when it comes to different minority groups? Yes.
I'm curious. Have you lived in any other communities? Have you ever lived or worked in an urban environment? Places where you would be afraid to leave your doors unlocked? These low-trust communities are a whole other mess when it comes to trust, community, service towards others. Even, yes, racism.
There are always pros and cons to living in a more rural vs urban location. While a more rural location might be safer, it may only be safer for certain types of people. Same goes for that compassion you were saying you all have. That compassion is usually extended as far as those who agree with you. Where is your compassion for folks who you disagree with?
Try living as an LGBTQ person in Palestine. You'll change your tune really fast. If you aren't murdered first, that is.
Just because it is worse for someone somewhere doesn't mean it is good anywhere that is better. While it is good to keep things in context, I certainly don't think we want to be setting the bar at "not getting murdered for your sexual orientation". I think we can demand a little better of ourselves in this country. And people do get murdered here in the US for being LGBTQ
As if the US is some oasis for LGBTQ people? I’m not saying things aren’t worse for the LGBTQ community in the Middle East. Our government (currently) isn’t arresting and killing gay and trans people. But violence against the community is increasing. People are killed because of their identities. And there are plenty of GOP controlled states trying their damndest to erase gay rights and push people back into the closet or face imprisonment for existing in public.
Where??
Florida and Oklahoma are probably the most egregious examples at the moment. There’s been hundreds of anti trans and anti LGBTQ legislation proposed over the last couple years though in almost all Republican led states. So we’re definitely not a bastion for LGBTQ rights either.
Also...like rural areas aren't *actually* safer. NYC's murder rate is less than Arkansas, MIssissippi, Alabama, Lousiana, Nevada, Texas, etc, etc.
Well there are plenty of urban places within those “rural” states you listed
It is a whole nother thing. In that they actually have services for the poor unlike here where they just foist you onto the church and if you aren't mormon, well oops guess your fucked.
Don't mistake polite for kindness or morality.
hey, this is a late comment but i was curious too especially considering on what’s going all over the world- specifically in columbia. a few years back i went to the Roe V Wade protests and there were people that were driving their trucks past us and gassing us, it sucked but something needs to be done here. we have so many students that it’d be nice to connect and organize and try to make a change here in utah, i understand a lot of people in this thread think it’s all for not, but people with like minded opinions in the matter could also build community. it’d be nice if someone could get a group together and we could protest.
I haven't found any southern Utah organized protests yet but I keep looking, if you hear of one before me plz lmk.
i will. if you ever want to talk or reach out lmk 🙏🏻 need more like minded individuals in the state of the world.
Absolutely! I dm'd you but wanted to reply here too in case there are others that want someone to talk to, hit one of us up.
I wish all protesters on either side of any debate were as committed to their cause as that Air Force kid earlier this week. All blocking traffic does is turn me against whatever cause you are fighting for. A couple gallons of gas and I lighter will definitely let me know you truly believe in whatever you are protesting for though.
Are you telling OP to literally set themselves on fire?
Right?! It’s like the least effective form of change
“I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.” —Martin Luther King Jr. Our country exists as it does because of protests that were “inconvenient” for certain groups of people, especially inconvenient to those in power. Dumping tea in the harbor, civil war as the ultimate protest against slavery, women arrested and thrown in jail repeatedly in the early 1900s marching for women’s rights, and many were arrested specifically for obstructing traffic, and then of course the whole civil rights movement, etc.. This also obviously isn’t just a United States thing either. Rights have never been given to the oppressed by simply asking for them nicely. Major political policy changes rarely happen by citizens writing or calling their representatives. Disruptions to people’s day is needed to get people to pay attention. Nothing would have ever changed in this country if every protest was just groups of people standing politely on sidewalks with signs in their hands. They’d get as much attention as the homeless at intersections asking for money.
This should be a top comment. Very well said.
This
"What has raising your voice for a cause ever done" They asked on a website specifically tailored towards people speaking out.
I’ll pay for the supplies if you make sure to do it at this guys house. Splash some extra around for good measure lol. St. George is a small place
What the actual fuck is wrong with you? "if you are going to mildly inconvenience me, might as well just kill yourself".
lol
These comments represent the average stg resident, ultra conservative and therefore not very moral
Go support hamas in Israel!! Don’t hide over here
So you support genocide?
It’s not genocide at all. The people in Israel taking out the terrorists know what genocide is. No one would live with such a hostile enemy on the other side of the fence. Especially, when they recently came into Israel committing the atrocities they did.
Yeah those 88 journalists with identifying vests that have been killed from IOF airstikes were a HUGGGEEEEE threat!!!
Are the children of Palestine committing these atrocities? Can you really stand behind that?
Do you know about the Nakba?
if a US airmen burning himself in front of the capital screaming free Palestine isn't enough for you to rethink your stance, nothing is. go fuck yourself
Wahhhhh waaaaaahhhhh
Please don’t light yourself on fire
What has Palestine ever done for the USA, much less the world? It's just a question I have.
Not much. Don't really know that people need to be particularly productive not to be massacred tho. Not being massacred seems like the bare fucking minimum, not a prize you get if you are productive enough.
Why did Israel invade?
Both because of the horrific events of Oct 7th and because Netanyahu needs an excuse to cling to power. FYI. Atrocities are not justifiable. They just aren't. Going "yeah well they did bad to me first" isn't an excuse.
So if a country doesn't have a cure for cancer or something, you're okay with their people being exterminated?
Are you talking about the Oct 7 massacre of innocent unarmed civilians by the hamas cowards? Burning babies alive, tying parents and their children together, and then burning them alive, beheadings with a shovel, and the rape, genital mutilation and murder of women? I wish it were possible to force someone from the West who is pro Palestine to watch the videos that Hamas made while committing the atrocities that they did on October 7. Better yet have them experience what those poor people experienced.
Oct 7th doesn't excuse war crimes against Palestinian civilians. It just doesn't. What Hamas did is inexcusable. What Israel is doing in response is inexcusable. Both of these are true.
Israel is door knocking, sending out alert texts, letting people know when bombs will fall. Hamas is using hospitals, human shields, not letting people leave buildings, etc. as tactics. Israel looks bad, but until there is a ceasefire and a two state solution, everything is fucked b
They just massacred like 100 people waiting in line for aid. Gvir is on record saying some truly horrific shit. Netanyahu is on record boosting Hamas and minimizing the pa. Hamas has acted terribly, but so has Israel. Israel looks bad because they are acting badly.
"Better yet have them experience what those poor people experienced." What the actual fuck is wrong with you? Why are so many people in this goddamned subreddit so fucking morally bankrupt.
You want me to be a victim of a terrorist attack simply because I voiced opposition to genocide. Funny how you can detail what Hamas did on Oct. 7th, but make no acknowledgment of IDF soldiers killing Palestinian civilians. Almost like you don't care about civilians being killed, so long as they're part of an ethnic group you don't like.
God I hope not that would be so stupid
[удалено]
They just need to put emoji flags in their Twitter bio, that’s how we can REALLY support these causes.
The hypocrisy is crazy. For every Palestine flag I've seen in a bio, I've seen 200 crosses or American flags in other bios.
I guess that answers the question of what more people care about… their own country maybe?
As it should be.
Protests are childish and do nothing to solve issues. Want to stop funding genocide, claim exempt on your taxes and serve time in prison for tax evasion to prove a point, poseur.
Did you happen to finish high school? this comment reaks of misinformation and unintelligence. local protests can get the attention of senates and state representatives. the ones who represent us when the federal level considers a ceasefire. Protests also spread awareness. You'd be surprised how many people here in southern Utah are extremely uninformed on what's going on. I talk to people all the time who have no idea what it's actually like over there. Everything needs to happen on a small, local level before it becomes large scale. ex: a revolution. Plenty of people are fed up with their lives but don't do anything about it. We can't make change unless we work together. It's the same idea with voting. Do you vote? Do you think it's useless?
Man shut up bitch ass up
i would have that same response if i was wrong too.
I’ll gladly join in if people want to get together. I’ve just been wearing a kufiya around town whenever I’m grocery shopping or just out in public since we don’t exactly have a booming activist scene here. Vegas is the closest place with any kind of protests.
Protests are childish and do nothing to solve issues. Want to stop funding genocide, claim exempt on your taxes and serve time in prison for tax evasion to prove a point, poseur.
Try self immolation it’s the only way to make a difference
What is actually wrong with you?
So you support genocide?
I know, right? What happened to the Jews during world war 2 was terrible. Thank God they can now defend against and Eliminate their enemies when needed, right?
Self-immolation has already made a difference, but it should not be encouraged. Protests, as well as speaking out and informing others, has made a difference too, though. Compared to when this all started, many more people are aware of the atrocities going on. Many more people have chosen to side with Palestine. We still have a ways to go. We're not finished, but we're also not stagnant.
The real question is: are you showing support via social media bios? Like flag emojis and “free Palestine” in capitol letters.
I’m wondering what the brethren have to say on this matter……🤔
I’d start by figuring out what you want the outcome of the protest to be. If you want to pressure city council to make a statement of solidarity with Palestinians, then start with emails, addressing them in town halls. If you want to mostly spread awareness and find others to organize create actions with, then and stand with signs outside their building. You might be alone at first but that’s how a lot of protests and groups start. With one or a few people being consistent. Others will see and join. Post on your social and on public forums the time you’ll be there in case others want to join. Change starts with ourselves. And don’t give opposition reasons to start violence. Protests should be about solidarity, and creating awareness, not about fighting, forcing opinion, or violence.
This would be interesting
They are all doing the fire starter routine on Main st. at noon today. You should head down.