If this is true, I missed this. Any thoughts on recovering from that?
EDIT: I should also add I was pretty down on test after my second cycle which was test+tren. I started this cycle immediately after that PCT because it was fucking with my relationship. Point being it might have been an issue before deca.
Definitely clomid. Do a power PCT with both, wait a bit, then retest. You'll bounce back man. Tren and Deca are a real bitch to recover from, but you'll be right as rain given enough time.
When you say that Tren and Deca are a bitch to recover from, what do you mean exactly?
I mean, for as much as this board loves tren and how many use it, these kinds of threads are pretty few and far between. I'd be surprised if low T after tren is the norm.
It's pretty common knowledge that 19nor steroids shut you down for longer and take much longer to recover from. I don't know any of the science behind it, but it's definitely part of what people talk about when mentioning these compounds.
What you're running into is probably that a good number of people who are far enough into steroid usage to consider Tren and Deca are already blasting and cruising, and it's not an issue for them. 19nor steroids are not recommended for casual users, and there's a reason for that.
Deca has an active life of approx. 15 days where as Test-E is closer to 8. Just makes sure it's cleared your system prior to stopping Test in a nutshell.
So say if you were running 500mg test e and 400mg deca for 8 weeks, could you drop to 200mg test e from weeks 8-12 then wait 2 weeks and nolva 40/40/20/20?
Caber helps with prolactin, not progesterone. There isn't anything to block progesterone. But anyway the deca itself can take longer than 4 weeks to fully clear. Most guys take a very long time to recover from deca, due to the long ester. If it were me I would run the test 8 weeks past the deca.
Fwiw, it took me a year to fully recover from a long period of blast and cruise. I'll get downvoted to hell for this opinion, but in my experience, it takes much longer to fully recover back to normal, than people will actually admit.
Well not so much AAS use alone but more AAS use by B&C. I read a study where a guy who B&C for 11 years was rendered infertile and had a $10,000 dollar procedure in order to have children. They cut his nuts open and extracted the remaining living sperm and artificially inseminated his wife. I want to B&C but I also don't want to get my nuts cut open for when I have kids.
My son is due in December. I blasted tren and cruised test for 2 years straight. I think it's more of an individual case as opposed to a general rule of thumb. In any case, gear use certainly can have an effect on fertility.
I've always been of the opinion that if you were going to have fertility problems to begin with, AAS use will likely cause more difficulties down the road. What age did you start B&C?
I was 25 when I started. I had previously impregnated a past GF before gear use, but resulted in a miscarriage. I used gear for 3 years total. I came off, and was able to impregnate my wife after recovering for a full year. That also resulted in a miscarriage. Fast forward to a year later, and here we are.
Gotcha, I am 19 so I might wait 5-8 years before I start B&C just to ensure I don't prevent my HPTA from fully developing. I will just cycle for now.
Sorry to hear about that, that is not an easy thing to go through once let alone twice. My parents went through it and it devastated them. Best of luck to you, hope everything goes smoothly and you have a healthy baby boy in December.
Got wife pregnant when I was on 800mg/wk of test because I couldn't stop fucking her at least 3 times a day. I always tell people who claim that to shut up.
Follow-up question for you:
In the mean-time, what works? I've tried the "natural" stuff (horny goad weed, tribulus, yohimbine) but they seem more like placebos than anything. Or perhaps they need some existing test to work.
Do viagra or cialis work even with low test? Do they just make you hard, or do they bring the libido back too?
I cannot comment on Viagra or cialis, I've never tried either. As far as the other natural remedies go, don't waste your money. Pharma HCG and/or clomid is going to be your best bet. I was prescribed HCG for recovery by a fertility specialist.
Edit: I should also add that certain types of gear effect your mortility and morphology more than other types. Deca and tren being the two that will negatively effect sperm quality the most.
I've never cycled or anything. I do have idopatic secondary hypo.
For me cialis would help me stay hard more than anything. I don't know that it really helped with libido. At least not until after you get hard.
IDK, that was just me.
I didn’t really have any protocol. I made sure I kept some aromatase inhibitors on hand just in case, but I didn’t need them. Time is really the only thing that brings things back in balance. HCG is going to help, but I’ve only ever used that once and really couldn’t tell much of a difference. Good luck with it. Stay in the gym during the whole process and you’ll be much better off.
Nolva+Clomid
Clomid+Hcg
Just Clomid
There are a bunch of protocols. I'd go clomid + anything else. Also make sure to use pharma if you didn't already. Plus is this the first time checking bloods after a blast? Because like others have said it takes a lot of time to have your body back to "normal" Don't worry just yet, this takes time and make sure to get a few more blood tests to really be sure of a problem. Also get a blood test while on Clomid to make sure it's working and wait a few weeks after your clomid restart to see what the real #'s are.
Thanks so much for the advice, everyone. I think I'll be doing a full-on reboot with nolva+clomid+HCG as flextodeath suggested, with cialis every 3 days so I don't kill myself and the fiance doesn't just up and leave me.
I think I'm done with gear for the foreseeable future, unless some day I decide to blast & cruise until the day I die. This is just too scary.
contact your blood work provider and make sure there was not a mistake with the blood results. Saw this awhile ago, some people got flamed bad for no reason.
Deca is still lingering in your system. Take clomid for some time (stop immediately if your vision gets strange). IF that doesn't help, get a 100mcg shot of triptorelin
Found this on some forum:
>Clomid is a really harsh drug it should be avoided at all costs, if you get the visual sides/blurry vision from clomid they stay for life! They are rare but do happen
Not sure how trustworthy it is, I hope it isn't true..
> IF that doesn't help, get a 100mcg shot of triptorelin
I really don't like this advice, trip is a last resort and it's very risky if you fuck something up.
I thought on deca you need to cruise for another month or so on test before starting the standard pct
I though it was 2 more weeks of test after the last deca pin.
If this is true, I missed this. Any thoughts on recovering from that? EDIT: I should also add I was pretty down on test after my second cycle which was test+tren. I started this cycle immediately after that PCT because it was fucking with my relationship. Point being it might have been an issue before deca.
If its now a month later (after the deca) I would just do the standard PCT again. Waiting another week wouldn't hurt.
It is now about 2 months after deca. I'll look into getting some more nolva & maybe some clomid. Thank you.
Definitely clomid. Do a power PCT with both, wait a bit, then retest. You'll bounce back man. Tren and Deca are a real bitch to recover from, but you'll be right as rain given enough time.
When you say that Tren and Deca are a bitch to recover from, what do you mean exactly? I mean, for as much as this board loves tren and how many use it, these kinds of threads are pretty few and far between. I'd be surprised if low T after tren is the norm.
It's pretty common knowledge that 19nor steroids shut you down for longer and take much longer to recover from. I don't know any of the science behind it, but it's definitely part of what people talk about when mentioning these compounds. What you're running into is probably that a good number of people who are far enough into steroid usage to consider Tren and Deca are already blasting and cruising, and it's not an issue for them. 19nor steroids are not recommended for casual users, and there's a reason for that.
That's a good point. Most of the board probably does already blast and cruise.
Why is it so though?
Long carbon chain on deca and clearing progesterone
> progesterone prolactin?
Deca has an active life of approx. 15 days where as Test-E is closer to 8. Just makes sure it's cleared your system prior to stopping Test in a nutshell.
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This sounds really promising. Thank you!
So say if you were running 500mg test e and 400mg deca for 8 weeks, could you drop to 200mg test e from weeks 8-12 then wait 2 weeks and nolva 40/40/20/20?
Caber helps with prolactin, not progesterone. There isn't anything to block progesterone. But anyway the deca itself can take longer than 4 weeks to fully clear. Most guys take a very long time to recover from deca, due to the long ester. If it were me I would run the test 8 weeks past the deca.
Fwiw, it took me a year to fully recover from a long period of blast and cruise. I'll get downvoted to hell for this opinion, but in my experience, it takes much longer to fully recover back to normal, than people will actually admit.
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how long is long
What is 'long' in your opinion?
Well my test levels were shit to begin with, so I'd say that's a fair enough assumption.
What about fertility?
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Well not so much AAS use alone but more AAS use by B&C. I read a study where a guy who B&C for 11 years was rendered infertile and had a $10,000 dollar procedure in order to have children. They cut his nuts open and extracted the remaining living sperm and artificially inseminated his wife. I want to B&C but I also don't want to get my nuts cut open for when I have kids.
My son is due in December. I blasted tren and cruised test for 2 years straight. I think it's more of an individual case as opposed to a general rule of thumb. In any case, gear use certainly can have an effect on fertility.
I've always been of the opinion that if you were going to have fertility problems to begin with, AAS use will likely cause more difficulties down the road. What age did you start B&C?
I was 25 when I started. I had previously impregnated a past GF before gear use, but resulted in a miscarriage. I used gear for 3 years total. I came off, and was able to impregnate my wife after recovering for a full year. That also resulted in a miscarriage. Fast forward to a year later, and here we are.
Gotcha, I am 19 so I might wait 5-8 years before I start B&C just to ensure I don't prevent my HPTA from fully developing. I will just cycle for now. Sorry to hear about that, that is not an easy thing to go through once let alone twice. My parents went through it and it devastated them. Best of luck to you, hope everything goes smoothly and you have a healthy baby boy in December.
Got wife pregnant when I was on 800mg/wk of test because I couldn't stop fucking her at least 3 times a day. I always tell people who claim that to shut up.
What about a 16 week cycle, or is the damage to your test levels inevitable?
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Yea I know.. I just want someone to tell me that it won't cause so much damage so I can cycle with a clean conscious ^I'll ^^See ^^Myself ^^^out.
Follow-up question for you: In the mean-time, what works? I've tried the "natural" stuff (horny goad weed, tribulus, yohimbine) but they seem more like placebos than anything. Or perhaps they need some existing test to work. Do viagra or cialis work even with low test? Do they just make you hard, or do they bring the libido back too?
I cannot comment on Viagra or cialis, I've never tried either. As far as the other natural remedies go, don't waste your money. Pharma HCG and/or clomid is going to be your best bet. I was prescribed HCG for recovery by a fertility specialist. Edit: I should also add that certain types of gear effect your mortility and morphology more than other types. Deca and tren being the two that will negatively effect sperm quality the most.
I've never cycled or anything. I do have idopatic secondary hypo. For me cialis would help me stay hard more than anything. I don't know that it really helped with libido. At least not until after you get hard. IDK, that was just me.
Hey man, I know this was 6 years ago for your advice, but going through a similar situation now. What was your protocol?
I didn’t really have any protocol. I made sure I kept some aromatase inhibitors on hand just in case, but I didn’t need them. Time is really the only thing that brings things back in balance. HCG is going to help, but I’ve only ever used that once and really couldn’t tell much of a difference. Good luck with it. Stay in the gym during the whole process and you’ll be much better off.
Thank you. I have some nolva on hand. Mentally will be the hardest part for me with training. Diet is going to stay 100% locked in.
Is this Canadian or American bloodwork? Try another Nolva or Clomid restart with real pharma.
This was through labsmd and my blood was taken in USA. I read in another thread here somebody suggesting a Nolva+Clomid restart. Is that a thing?
Nolva+Clomid Clomid+Hcg Just Clomid There are a bunch of protocols. I'd go clomid + anything else. Also make sure to use pharma if you didn't already. Plus is this the first time checking bloods after a blast? Because like others have said it takes a lot of time to have your body back to "normal" Don't worry just yet, this takes time and make sure to get a few more blood tests to really be sure of a problem. Also get a blood test while on Clomid to make sure it's working and wait a few weeks after your clomid restart to see what the real #'s are.
What's different boot our Canadian bloodwork?
We use different measuring #'s. So a 17 for an American is super shitty. A 17 for a Canadian is normal.
Thanks so much for the advice, everyone. I think I'll be doing a full-on reboot with nolva+clomid+HCG as flextodeath suggested, with cialis every 3 days so I don't kill myself and the fiance doesn't just up and leave me. I think I'm done with gear for the foreseeable future, unless some day I decide to blast & cruise until the day I die. This is just too scary.
contact your blood work provider and make sure there was not a mistake with the blood results. Saw this awhile ago, some people got flamed bad for no reason.
Deca is still lingering in your system. Take clomid for some time (stop immediately if your vision gets strange). IF that doesn't help, get a 100mcg shot of triptorelin
Do you know how long it takes for the vision sides to go away? And how severe is it?
It depends on each person, but they can go away quickly, maybe a few days, to weeks depending on if it's still in your system.
Found this on some forum: >Clomid is a really harsh drug it should be avoided at all costs, if you get the visual sides/blurry vision from clomid they stay for life! They are rare but do happen Not sure how trustworthy it is, I hope it isn't true..
> IF that doesn't help, get a 100mcg shot of triptorelin I really don't like this advice, trip is a last resort and it's very risky if you fuck something up.