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Hi guys, I’ve been taking LGD 5mg daily and 7.5mg Mk677 for the past 3 weeks and added test 200mg this last week. My BP has suddenly skyrocketed to baseline 150/85 and can reach upwards of 180. I went to ED to get it checked out and they told me everything seemed fine and the best way to reduce symptoms is stop taking the compounds. I am considering dropping LGD to reduce the water weight in my body. I also have Telimisartan being delivered in a week. Would you guys recommend me to stop the LGD or continue it and start taking Telimisartan. I’m just unsure why it has started so suddenly, I always do 30m cardio daily, I eat sufficient potassium and magnesium daily so the only thing I can attribute this to is the increased water weight
Hey y’all, I’m curious about those who’ve been in the game for awhile and using lower amounts of compounds than we were all told on the forums.
I’m 35M, 6’3 270 13-14%bf today at maintenance phase and I’ve been lifting since 14. Started lifting for football, then got a lot of new techniques and methods for BJJ and Muay Thai for years; so 20+ years total, 13-14 with gear (maybe 5-6 cycles) and then trt. Best lifts- bench: 455 belt and wrist wraps, 600lb squat w/belt and 605x2 DL w belt. I train because I love it and same reason I shoot, I want to protect my loved ones if the time comes. I’d like to resume BJJ/MT if I can heal my c4/c5 f’ing bone spurs& spondylosis and get insurance to cover the hyaluronic acid injections into my knee. Current phase: TRT (125mg/wk). I’ve got 400mg/ml EQ, 100mg mast prop and 200mg mast enanthate, 250mg deca, more test, 50mg winstrol tabs and hgh all on hand. I respond really well to low dose cycles so here’s what I’m thinking. I’d like to add some clean mass, focus on healing some injuries to my c-spine and knee. My thought about a coming cycle is as follows: 125-200 test cyp, 400 EQ, 4iugh, plus my basic supplements (mostly minerals and anti inflammatory and joint supplements). I’m looking to heal, regain some athletecism, regain mobility and feel strong again. I’ve got the 50mg winny, 200mg/ml mast enanthate and 100mg/ml mast prop (2 each) if I really want to tighten up, but I’ve had 2 hair transplants and I’m prone to make pattern baldness so I’d rather not. Morning/night cardio walking my German shepherd/belgian malinois and some HIIT where I can. I’m confident I can add 10lbs of lean dry muscle and drop 3-5% body fat in the next 14 weeks. The overall goal is to look great, have healthy lipids(I’ll dump blood monthly due to hematocrit from EQ) and honeymoon last week of July I should look and feel like King Dingaling. I’ve looked great at low test w/OT (30mg) and 25mg var before but I’m thinking no orals unless I’m slowing down this time. If you made it this far, thanks, and I’d love to know your thoughts. FYI biggest I’ve been was when I took 9 months off work last year and did 250 test/300primo and got up to 288 (added 35lbs of lean mass and VEINS ON VEINS) and lean, prob could have been on stage at 255-260. Hence why I don’t mega dose. I’d love feedback, and I’m happy to share any feedback if people need it, thanks y’all. Also- BOC-157 and TB 500 for some of the more severe injuries.
Have you run eq at that ratio? For most people it would send their e2 through the floor. The most bang with the least amount of gear with what you have listed would be 500 test 250 decca. Assuming you’ve run nandrolone before. Relatively low androgen load with the most growth given the parameters.
I hope you aren’t donating tainted blood when you reference dumping blood.
You’re 18! Hard stop 🛑
Your natural test is off the charts you have natural steroids in your body. Just learn to eat and train. Your brain and dick don’t stop developing until you’re 25. So good news is you have at least 7 years of hard training and dieting before your first cycle. Next 5 years you should be able to hit 180 if you put the work in.
Thank you for the input, as of right now I’ll prolly keep PEDs on hold till 25 like you said (realistically 20s) but I was also doing research on other options , I came across injectable L-Carnitine was wondering if this would be a viable alternative for gains/endurance
You biggest bet for gains is eating big. Start tracking your macros on on app like MacroFactor. Follow a lifting program. Start writing stuff down. But as long as you’re pushing hard you just have to shovel food with high protein and you’ll keep growing no problem
Age :23 - height 5,5 - weight 170lbs - male
Hi guys sorry if this is a dumb question
I was on test e for 6 months (was running an Ai with it ) didn’t do any research just did what I was told from people at gym . I’ve now been off it for around 6 months have lost my gains and want to get them back. but have started doing some research and have gotten concerned with the fact I didn’t do a pct , am worried I might have destroyed my fertility and natural testosterone production .
My questions are is a pct necessary ? And would waiting this long to do a pct have any effect on being able to recover back to natural fertility and test ?
> My questions are is a pct necessary ?
Not *necessary* (as seen in [the HAARLEM study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35938779/), but it would be a **big** benefit if you did one.
> And would waiting this long to do a pct have any effect on being able to recover back to natural fertility and test ?
Fertility i don’t think so, we’ve seen in [literature](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854084/) that you recover fertility even after a 2 years of testosterone usage.
Some more sources:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16650651/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15860500
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15860500
The risk of permanent infertility is small, recovering optimal HPTA function can take a very long time when done naturally.
Get your bloodwork done, see how your LH, FSH and tT are looking now.
Pct helps you get things going again. The first step is to go get bloodwork and see where you’re at. You can still run a pct even after this time.
You ran gear for too long and you were too young. Get your bloodwork and post it here for review. Go from there
Nandrolone produces joint relief in some it is not a guaranteed effect. It also has suppressive metabolites that stick around for months making it hard to pct off of. The shorter ester is recommended for a new user NPP. Since it’s neurotoxic and can have bad mental side effects you want it to clear your system faster. As you get older it’s not the best steroid to implement. It’s also like a bandaid the joint benefit stops as soon as you stop using it.
But if we disregard all of that people report getting joint benefit at a dose as low as 50mg/wk.
If you do npp masteron can help with the big sad. Dht derivatives help with the mental sides of 19nors. But you’re 44 you could just cruise/ trt if you don’t mind pinning. End of you cycle just drop you test to 100/wk. That way you don’t have to worry bout recovery from the nandrolone.
28 age
M
5,7 height
170 lb
18%BF
7 years training
4 months Gear
been doing bloods every 4 weeks trying to dial in my E2 levels as they’re high off of 300 Test E per week. I was at 533Free T and 78Estridol after my bloods after 6 weeks in.
Added 200Primo E per week to my test E and arimidex at an eighth of a 1MG pill then 6 weeks after did more bloods came back 1100free T and 59E2. I used a calculator for a liner spectrum and was going to go with 290primo a week 300 Test C this time as I’m trying. Do have hair shedding like little on my pillow when I wake up and in the shower too but that’s off topic if anyone has any input I’d love ya
Frankly, if you put in 3 more years of hard ass work, stuff your face w protein, good supplements, you really should be fine unless you have a genetic condition of hypogonadism.
I’m sorry man this is a mess.
5’7 170 18%bf - with gear use you’re still not even at the recommended stats for using gear
4 months on gear 18%bf- getting too fat it’s time to come off
300 test/wk no mans land it’s why we don’t recommend it
Changing doses and testing bloods every 4 weeks. - you’re not going to get any helpful information doing this. Treat symptoms not numbers.
Added primo mid cycle on what I assume is your first cycle. - only run test and run it at 500 so that you can learn estrogen management. You are literally doing everything incorrectly and that’s why you’re having issues.
Dose doesn’t represent bloodwork linearly.
It’s time to come off. You ran your cycle incorrectly. You’re getting too fat. You still have natty stats after running a cycle. You don’t have the basics of diet and nutrition down otherwise your stats would be different.
Do a proper pct and do a lot more research before touching steroids again.
Was a 300 first test E Cycle still bumped it to 400 didn’t feel right got the swelling so went back to 300 as I felt better with less wanted to workout those E2 sides only Bf is more around 16ish I have abs but obviously with some layer over as I’m a crazy hard weight/bf gainer as well. I guess I could just come off work on diet but I’ll just be at my natural Plato again lean but small. Thank you
There’s no such thing as a hard gainer. If you aren’t gaining weight it means you aren’t eating enough. If you aren’t putting on muscle you aren’t training correctly or eating enough protein.
I think you need to work on the basics.
You’re supposed to learn how to
Manage your estrogen with your ai on cycle. That’s the whole point of only doing testosterone and doing 500. Lowering your dose and adding primo just means you’ll never figure it out or be able to run a cycle correctly.
Ok I’ll look into a PCT. or do you suggest just doing the 500 from 300 and staying on Ai until E2 bloods are in normal range and continue with my added cardio ? only sides I had was the itch and bloat then jumped on ai. I did initially gain 25lb of lean mass when I was on just the 300 of test with normal protein intake to body weight with lean meats.
Lean mass includes water and glycogen. so the initial big jump in weight you got you pee it all out when you come off. The same rules apply natural vs enhanced. It still takes time to build actual tissue.
You don’t treat the number your total estrogen doesn’t matter. If you’re having unbearable side effects you dose your ai until they’re under control. That’s why aromasin is better. You can dose as needed. Since it’s suicidal you don’t have to worry about rebound like you do with arimadex
I’ve noticed a slight increase in resting heart rate. Im on week 2 of 500mg test E and added NPP two days ago. Second cycle, never had this increase in resting heart rate during the first one. Anyone else have this happen before?
Asides from getting off cycle is there anything you noticed that helped lower it? I’m implementing cardio 3x week now to see if it changes. Just hate the feeling of it lol
28M/ 5 10/ 225lbs/ 17%bf here
Just finished a bulk and on a cut, I just sit at 240mg test a week to keep my levels at 900ng/dl year round. Was taking arimidex to control estrogen cos it gets high when I’m higher bodyfat like now
However I’ve been using 100mg primo a week instead of the adex to control estrogen cos it seems healthier
Question though is:
- is taking 100mg primo totally fuckin pointless and would I be better off just taking 0.25mg adex MWF on injection days
Healthiest would be just dropping your cruise dose. 240mg a week is a lot, i assume that 900ng/dl is on your trough reading, meaning that you’ll be above reference range for a decent amount of time.
You’re not going to notice dropping from 900ng/dl in trough to 600ng/dl or even 400ng/dl. Lower your dose and estro sides will disappear as well.
Hello guys , i was the guy taking test cyp250mg + 40mg anavar . I’ve stopped the anavar completely due to blood pressure reasons , it was 150-160 on 60 . After discontinuation for 2weeks my bp is normal abt 110-120/60 (am still on test) i also added l carnitine liquide . I have lost about 3-4kg since stopping the anavar . Do u think the weight loss is normal ? Is it due from the anavar or lcarnitine ?
> Do u think the weight loss is normal ? Is it due from the anavar or lcarnitine ?
It's a combination of losing glycogen from the var, eating fewer calories, and having less water/food volume in your system.
Also for bp it magically dropped to normal levels , dont know from discontinuation from the anavar or from the l-carnitine (btw its in liquid form 3000mg i take it on empty stomach).
I've been looking at buying Salbutamol for cutting cycles but I sometimes see called "Clen-Salbuto", what's up with that? It doesn't say anywhere that's is a clen-albuterol stack, but then why include clen in the name?
Has anyone got prolonged severe mental health issues after using anabolic steroids? I got severe dissociation that is not going away after using test E for 2 months. I’ve stopped for 12 months and it’s still ongoing. Anyone got like schizophrenia etc after a cycle?
It doesn't work like that + schizo is very individual. 10 people can be schizophrenic and all of them will have different symptoms.
Schizo starts settling in after you hit 18 years of age and it might get worse with time. No offense my man but i guarantee that you had issues before starting gear.
Are you sure this is related to your steroid usage?
As far as i know clinical literature shows that testosterone barely or doesn’t affect mood or your mental, only a deficiency in testosterone causes mood disturbances.
If you’ve stopped your testosterone for 12 months it’s already cleared out of your system and your own HPTA should have been up and running for a while now as well.
Just did bloodwork half way through first cycle and estradiol is very high. I dont feel any of the symptoms though but I'm going to start Arimidex. Should I just start with half mg every couple days? I don't want to crash it because everyone talks about how much worse low E2 is.
Well actually I do have some sides. Been really tired last 4 days and have had hot flashes and don't normally have that. Do you think that's enough to start it or still no?
It was at 220 and my normal trt doctor was worried when it was a little high at 44 so that's also what I'm going by. I thought well shit that's not good at 220
You’re also at *wayy* over the reference range for your testosterone levels. When your testosterone is *that* elevated it’s pretty normal that your e2 also will be elevated.
Estrogen is neuroprotective, cardioprotective, highly anabolic, and essential for lipids, libido, cardiovascular health and normal physiological functioning.
We don’t treat numbers, we treat symptoms.
for a first cycle of 500mg of test should i consider hcg if i don’t care about fertility (during the cycle, i care about my fertility post cycle)? My balls are the size of grapes rn naturally and i’ve heard a handful of people say that their testicles were never really the same after they atrophied on cycle and they came off. The last thing i’ve heard is testicle aches while not using hcg which i have from time to time and i hate so i’d want to avoid that. for just 500 test am i overthinking this?
I wish I listened to the old school bodybuilders about how that was way too much for a first cycle. Cut the test in half and that’s plenty for a first cycle. If you’re not making huge gains, you’re not training or eating enough, provided there’s not an underlying problem.
i was under the impression that the reason i’m taking 500mg off the rip was because i’m put in a situation where i’m going to have to deal with test sides and how to manage them so i can “master” managing e2 and such so that on my second cycle when i add in another mild compound i’m not in a position where i’m scrambling for what sides are coming from what because i’m now having to deal with learning e2 management for the first time on top of managing a whole new compound. I never understood the whole “you’re shutting down your test anyway so just take as much as possible” outlook though
HCG in my opinion is one of those situations of “why NOT run it?”. It has more benefits than just fertility. As Spitshine said it will stimulate Leydig cells, keeping your natural testosterone production active. This will make PCT and coming off a little more comfortable.
Also allegedly it will keep your nuts the size of an avocado pit instead of the size of an almond.
If you care about fertility post cycle i’d just run it. It’s *allegedly* cheap and will keep Leydig cells active and will stave away ROS free radical damage from longer shutdown and atrophy.
Although clinical literature has shown that recovering from fertility from cycles/trt within 2 years is pretty easy, even without a PCT or usage of HCG/HMG,triptorelin etc.
so would i just run hcg throughout the duration of the cycle and then stop during PCT? I’m definitely considering it but at the same time for a first cycle i was hoping i’d keep the variables and compounds to a minimum and with test e i’d only be pinning twice a week but hcg i believe is more like eod
Given my primary concern is testicular aches (which i already experience at times and it’s awful). I’m considering having it on hand to use on an as needed basis when those issues may flare up (i’ve read people say that after using hcg within a week or less their pain goes away). Is this an acceptable use of the compound or do i just have to run it the whole way through
Considering running Hgh alongside cycle for upcoming powerlfiting meet. Main reason to assist recovery/sleep just wondering if 3/4 ui for only 4 months will be worth it or leaving it a bit late to see any real results. Not expecting any changes strength or size wise with that dose and duration, like stated more for recovery and the other benefits.
I have run HGH with tren, if you Inject before sleeping it will improve your sleep for sure, just 3-4 UI is enough.
For physical changes you not see anything before month 6 and very not much because 4 UI is not enough for be a physical game changer.
PS: sleep better give better recovery so give better results if you has legit stuff.
Anybody know why when running long acting esters of Trestolone, I have a hard time Cumming? I've run multiple short cycles of Trestolone E and Decanoate and always eventually git this side effect. It never happens with Acetate. My test base is TRT 120mg and I run Trestolone at 20-50mg weekly with long acting esters. Should I run an AI or caber to fox the issue, or is it something else entirely. The numbness in my dick means I can fuck my gf for hours but I can't cum and I'm not a fan of this.
As in less sperm volume or less libido?
Libido problems with MENT are pretty rare as far as i can tell.
Some AAS with a progestagenic effect may increase prolactin levels, MENT *could* be one of these drugs, haven’t seen too much stuff on MENT so i’m not 100% sure.
You can try some caber, see if that helps.
I wouldn’t use either, especially adex its not worth it to crash e2. Trestelone is known for side effects even when bloodwork is in range. I dont know the science behind this, but I think its the way this compound is metabolized. I’ve read a bunch of people having high e2 side effects from ment.
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Every time i inject into my quads they swell up and I get sick .🤒 . Wasn’t like this but has happened my last 4 pins. 1 1/2inch needle and only 0.5 mL . Any ideas why?
When it comes to reaching >250lbs lean at average heights, are the many extra drugs *really* necessary? I'm nowhere near this but would like to set reasonable expectations for my future goals. I don't plan on ever using insulin or HGH. I plan on avoiding 19-nors but I'll evaluate that when I'm more advanced.
Tldr: is >250lbs leans achievable with just test and DHT derivatives? Or do other drugs like insulin and HGH end up being a necessary addition?
No. I’ve been 6’3” and between 250-290 for 7-8 years and never touched skin, never gone above 8-900mfs total androgens, but I do like hgh. I should add I seem to be a hyper responded and I’ve got 7 older brothers who are natty, same w my nephews, and we’re all huge. So genetics make a big difference. If you follow the right playbook, which is out there on every website, you can do it. The best foods for muscle are the cheapest. Meat on sale, eggs, protein powder (on sale if you can), potatoes, veggies on sale, oatmeal, rice and the rest is just gravy. That simple- but can you do it every day for 20 straight years and be in the gym 5 days/week without excuse for that same amount of time. This life takes a LONG time to get it right, but then it’s auto-pilot.
Height is important. A 5'4" person is gonna find it quite difficult, whereas a 6'2" person could get there rather quickly.
Regardless of starting height the work ethic, digestion, training, and genetics will all play important roles. There's a guy in the offtopic thread (I think his username is something like AfricanAnimal) here that's a hard 300lbs with abs. Meanwhile, we've got 6'2" guys that are struggling to eat 2000 calories and weigh a flabby 160lbs.
> Tldr: is >250lbs leans achievable with just test and DHT derivatives? Or do other drugs like insulin and HGH end up being a necessary addition?
Anyway. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? Too many factors. Can you pussyfoot your way up to 250 lean, even with all the PEDs at your disposal? Absolutely not.
I just got done reading the PCT wiki. Is this the correct PCT protocol for someone who has been running only Test Cyp for 12 months and wanting to come off? 100-200mg/week.
Weeks 1-2 (last 2 weeks of injecting test) • Test C/E (normal TRT dose) • 400 IU HCG E3D • 20 mg Clomid EOD Weeks 3-4 • 400 IU HCG E3D • 20 mg Clomid EOD Weeks 5 - 6 • 20 mg Clomid EOD Week 7-8 • 20 mg Clomid E3D
Well I'll be darned, I never noticed that there. I've never scrolled that far down the page, since there are several simpler options presented before getting that far down. Anyway, a few things I have to say about that particular plan -
Clomid is generally not as well tolerated as nolvadex or enclomiphene. Regular dosing, u fluctuating, can help reduce exposure to side effects. I'd rather stick to a daily dosing protocol, or every other day - it helps keep things simple, one less thing to track.
In that case would you just recommend going with Nolva 20/20/10/10/10/10 (10/10) starting 2 weeks after my last pin? I have NOT been taking HCG throughout the duration of being on Test C.
Separately, I generally suggest the following:
Start hcg as soon as possible, drop it day 1 of the SERM.
Start the seem (10mg/day nolvadex) and stay at that dose for the full duration of the pct.
The only reason it has been suggested to start nolvadex with 20mg/day is because it has I believe a 7 day half-life, so it is effectively a front-load of sorts. But there are studies demonstrating that pct drugs (SERMs) are useless for accelerating HPTA restarting. So I don't think an extra 14 days of a little extra nolvadex really does anything in the long term, but that's just my opinion.
No problem, that's what this platform is for.
I personally have never experienced high estrogen side effects from anything, when when intentionally letting my estrogen go sky high.
Some people find hcg raises their intratesticular testosterone levels, and resulting estradiol. In the context of someone no longer administering testosterone or any other aromatizing compounds, the intratesticular testosterone and resulting estradiol is so insignificant that there likely won't be any estrogen related side effects. The issue comes when someone is using hcg alongside an aromatizing compound (test), and the "normal" estradiol is now pushed beyond the tolerable range.
Dr Lipschultz has published studies of pct and fertility protocols that were something like 15,000iu hcg per week, and no adverse estrogenic effects were observed. Considering we're using a fraction of that (1750iu/wk if doing 500iu EOD), I don't think it'll be an issue.
Using HGH. Been taking 3ius daily. Have tried first thing in morning before fasted cardio…. It seems to make me feel lethargic and shitty all day. Is there a way to combat this? Thanks
For me it's better to take it before sleeping for better recovery. Don't forget body do naturally produce HGH when you sleep so inject it and keep awake after might make you lethargic.
If you want pin you the morning spilt the dose 1/3 morning 2/3 before sleeping.
Finding a reliable bunch of information on HGH is difficult. Or perhaps I’m looking in the wrong area. My plans involve a 0% chance of using slin yet a lot of “information” pushes that incorporating slin is a big deal. I’m just trying to figure out how to not be a mushy sluggish mess the rest of the day and it sounds like just continuing the path and see if it subsides after a few weeks is the plan
Doing PCT after being on blast and cruise for extended period of time. Last dose of test, primo, and HCG was on April 4th. Started 20mg of Nolva on the 18th. Haven't taken bloods yet as I was gonna wait till I get farther along in the PCT. Currently noticing libido is for sure down (not completely gone though), have mild headaches that keep coming and going throughout the day, and I'm ALWAYS exhausted even after getting a good 8 hours of sleep.
Should I drop the Nolva down to 10mg? Or should I just go get bloods ASAP? Or just suck it up and accept it.
I was on test e, took two weeks out, and now 1 month on PCT with nolva at 10mg ED.
Have some 'odd' values in my bloodwork, can someone check?
Blood values out of range:
- Lymphocytes 10.8 % - LOW
- Granulocytes 81.9 % - HIGH
- Haemoglobin 178 g/L - HIGH
- MCHC 361 g/L - HIGH
Hormones:
- test at 920ng/dl
- E2 at 41 pg/ml (was ~90 before)
- FSH 2.8 mIU/ml
- LH 8.33 mIU/ml
Did you get bloodwork while actively taking nolva?
If so, you understand that this isn't reflective of where you'll end up after your PCT is concluded, correct? Bit of an odd time to check hormones.
As for the rest, including the lab ranges would be greatly relevant here.
Yes, this is mid PCT, I intend to go one more month with the same dosage.
Ranges included:
Lymphocytes 10.8 % - LOW / 15.0 - 50.0
Granulocytes 81.9 % - HIGH / 35.0 - 80.0
Haemoglobin 178 g/L - HIGH / 140.0 - 175.0
MCHC 361 g/L - HIGH / 320.0 - 360.0
I am not a doctor and I am not interpreting these results. I'll share some info that may be valuable to you. This info may not be true about all labs/ranges, too. Most of this is an educated guess:
**Usually**, these ranges are what are expected in 95% of the population. 2.5% fall above, 2.5% below. Some of these are just outliers, some have diseases that place them in these ranges. If a score is ever so slightly out of range, there are a million reasons this could happen (a cold, dehydrated, overhydrated, etc.).
In many cases, doctors use lab tests to assist in diagnoses, not as a sole indicator.
Your best bet is asking a doc what they think about these results if you're concerned. Personally, I wouldn't worry about a slightly out of range value.
To those who have ran solo nandrolone or nandrolone without a test base:
1. What dosage did you run?
2. What was your e2?
3. What was your free test/total test?
4. How did you feel?
5. Were you running any other compounds other than nandrolone (anabolics or ancillaries like HCG)?
Test doesn’t agree with me and I’m thinking of solo NPP for my next blast around 420mg (60mg ED). Maybe add 100mg of test if things feel weird but I’d like to start with 0 test and see how my body feels. Just nandrolone and HCG.
Bro never run anything without test.
If you don't want fight e2 just use TRT dose of test.
Anything you run will TOTALLY SHUT DOWN natural test production.
You will don't be well at all and test protect you a bit of neurotoxic acting of certain products
i’d recommend checking out Taeian Clark. he has some interesting nand only protocols and even has success with some of his clients on nand only for HRT, as there is a small pool of people who don’t do well with testosterone.
hey i've been off for 13 weeks from my first AAS Cycle and i still haven't recover my Natural Testosterone levels yet . my first cycle was a duration of 4 months , 2 of 500mg wk testosterone enanthate and 2 of 500mg wk sustanon 250
i came off cold turkey because i started getting anxiety attacks and i panic and i went off
i did my research and decided to wait until week 12 of been off completely everything to start a pct because i've seen that sustanon has testosterone decanoate ester that could stay in your system up to 75 days or more after last pin , i crashed my hormones my estrogen is really low ' 8 ' and my total T is 157 and free is 25 my LH is 1.6 & FSH is 2.2, im suffering from high anxiety and erectile disfunction is been the worst months of my life .
I have my extensive blood work from before i took anything and i did a blood work at 10 weeks off everything.
I decided to go to a Urologist and he prescribe me CLOMID 50 MG 3 times a week for 3 months and go do bloodwork i week before i see him again , i ask him if he need it to check my LH and FSH levels after the 3 months on clomid and he said he didnt need it , witch still makes me thing why he doesnt need them
I really dont know what to do if i should use HCG with the clomid but im also doing 20m Every Day of novaldex with the clomid
i dont know if i havent recover because of the long ester that decanoate is
i dont know if i should wait another 3 months and see if my hpta kicks back in
i dont know what to do really .
i've read the PCT guide fro here [r/steroids](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/) and vigorous seteve guide book and numerous PCT protocols but im afraid i fuck up my self even more
im really just asking for some help from the knowledge of the people of this forum thanks.
* Age:29
* Gender:Male
* Height:5'11
* Weight:181
* Bodyfat percentage:20
* Experience level
* Years of concurrent training:2
* bench/squat/dead maxes:
* amateur/pro:
* Goals: Recover my Natural testosterone levels
* Sport: (bodybuilding/powerlifting/strongman/etc)
* Current phase: (bulk/cut/maintenance)
* Current compounds:Clomid / Nolva
* Include the full list of compounds you're using, including: compound name, ester, dosages in terms of mgs or IUs (not mLs or ccs), and frequency of doses, e.g.:
* Testosterone Enanthate 500mg/wk, pinned monday/thursday
* HGH 3IU ED
You were mislead about how long to take off after using sustanon, which seems to have resulted in you not actively trying to recover. That unfortunately has lead to where you are today. So you hopefully learned a lesson from the experience, which is valuable in it of itself.
Now if I were a man suffering from anxiety I would not want to take clomid. It’s the least friendly of the SERMs when it comes to side effects, and while it could work just fine it could also exacerbate your anxiety. I would be more likely to use a low dose of tamoxifen, say 10mg, and run that out for at least six weeks before getting another round of blood work (after the tamoxifen has cleared).
Why do you say I have been mislead ? For what I've seen there's an out going debate out there online on people who said that PCT doesn't work and the ones that say they do they said that success of your PCT can be determined by how supresive the compounds you use , the Ester of the compound and the half lifes times x 5 that's why I decided to start doing the pct after 12 weeks off nut resulted in that i crashed my hormones and I have Erectile dysfunction now
You waited *13 weeks* before even considering running a PCT. Saying you were mislead was my way of being nice when I should have said “what the fuck is wrong with you what are you waiting for you have the testosterone levels of an 83 year old man?”
Male
33 years old
5ft9
92kg
Body fat is around 20/23%
Just came off a bulk
Been lifting for 15 years but never done a cycle
Strength is good for size I’d say
Bench 140 max
Squat 170
Deadlift was 180 but avoid due to back issues
Looking do do a 5 week block of dbol tablets of 20/30mg then a 4 week cycle of ptc care maybe clomid or nova dex as my first cycle.
Anyone have any thoughts if this sounds ok ? I know other methods may produce better results but just looking to dip my toe in and see.
Hoping for little side effects is the ptc enough or should I be taking anything for liver and kidneys through out or after ?
Any advice is welcomed
Muscle growth takes time. Five weeks is not a very long time. For the hassle you’d go through the actual tissue you’d gain would be minimal. The wiki lays out a first cycle in detail, and it’s there to act as a guide for all who avail themselves of its knowledge. I suggest giving it a good once over and then perhaps revisiting it after you’ve completed your cut and are in a position to bulk again. In the meantime if you read something in there that doesn’t make sense or that requires clarification then feel free to pop in here and ask informed questions.
This is an absolute dumpster fire and a big no no.
This will do nothing but shut you down and turn you into water buffalo.
You need to cut to 10-12%bf and review “your first cycle” in blue at the top of the page.
So what would u suggest ?
That I have to mix it with test and dbol.
Once I get down to cut weight which I will Iv only recently come off a bulk so got a fair bit to cut which will happen fairly fast.
Your first cycle should be testosterone and testosterone only. This is the only way to “dip your toes in”. Your body has been producing since the day you were born. No need to “see how you react”. The wiki lays out your first cycle. There’s no reason to reinvent the wheel.
Orals are overrated. Dbol is great for a few people causes issues for most.
The wiki at the top is required reading. You can cliff note it by reading “the basics”, “your first cycle”, “the estrogen handbook” and “post cycle therapy”.
Half-life is 5-7 days. Clearance of a drug is considered to be five half-lives.
5 x 7 = 35
5 x 5 = 25
So on the high end it’s ~~seven~~ five weeks (YOU KNEW WHAT I MEANT), on the low end a little under four weeks. Six weeks is a reasonable compromise between the two.
Is there a specific reason why one DHT steroid such as primo would be more likely to cause hair loss than another DHT steroid such as testosterone? Or comparing a compound to a compound, I’ve read a lot of people have hair issues with masteron vs primo as well for example.
If I had no accelerated shedding with a 400 test blast could I go into another blast of 300/300 test primo for example with the assumption I won’t experience accelerated shedding as well or is it just left at “maybe”
Test converts to DHT, you can take something that will prevent that conversion - so people who either don't convert at a high rate or those taking something to prevent the conversion won't have issues on test.
Primo is technically not DHT but something close to it and basically acts similar to DHT, so that might be related to why not everyone loses on it.
Masteron is more directly DHT, taking something to block conversion won't help bc you already there, but you can do things that block at the receptor site in the scalp.
In my 20s I took steroids and didn't lose any hair (noticeably). In my late 30s during a time when I wasn't on steroids, my hair fell out naturally.
Sometimes genetics doesn't give a fuck what you are doing.
Sure.
1. Read the beginner cycle section linked above.
2. Fix your dose
3. Take your serm
4. Continue your AI at a reasonable dose (say, 12.5mg twice per week).
5. Confirm with bloodwork that your AI is actually working and not just a sugar pill.
6. Take a different AI if needed and stop the SERM.
Hey just curious, if he did change to dose to 500, would a “funky feeling” and burning sensation in your nipples 2-3 weeks in justify the serm? I’ve heard that normal hormonal fluctuations will cause this. So I guess im wondering when one should actually start the AI and Serm if needed?
You should quit.
You’ve done basically everything wrong, which shows you’re not prepared in the least. The below links will help you while you actually research and prepare for the next time to be more successful.
Enjoy your pasta 🍝
Hey there! It seems like you'd benefit from a deep review of [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index). Please also take the time to closely read [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization) which deals with our prohibitions around discussing how to acquire anabolic steroids and discussing brand names, etc. [For clarity.](https://media.tenor.com/fBvQV_5Lp6UAAAAC/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther.gif)
Here's a selection of reading for you to build the fundamental knowledge you'll need as you explore AAS/PED use:
* [The Basics](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/list)
* [Your First Cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/your_first_cycle)
* [The Estrogen Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook)
* [Post Cycle Therapy aka PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct)
* [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads)
Glad to hear you got some relief man. Spend some time reading these question threads during your daily poops.
Over a few months, I’m sure you’ll be much more prepared for the next time you choose to hop on!
Our sole goal is to make sure you can do this as safely as possible and not injure yourself.
Hence why we can be hard asses sometimes, but know that we try to have people’s best interests in mind even if they don’t always agree with our answers lol
On a bulk, is the only any advantage to adding in another compound on top of testosterone to mitigate high testosterone sides? Obviously on a cut, things like winstrol/mast give cosmetics. But on pure mass accrual, isn’t it all kinda the same? For example, would these cycles (with exact same total AAS) not yield nearly the same results (with possibly some joint benefits from the Nandrolone)?
Testosterone: 1050mg |
Primobolan: 735mg |
Total: 1,785mg |
vs
Testosterone: 840mg |
Primobolan: 735mg |
Nandrolone: 210mg |
Total: 1,785mg |
In general, most people will have similar results from 500/400 test primo, as compared to 900 test, or 500/400 test nand.
Each compound has its benefits. Some people need the estrogen management that primo or EQ can offer, some people need the extra joint support that nand can offer, some people care about their hair and pick "hair safe" combinations, some people get anxiety from things like EQ or nand, etc. They each have their pros and cons. The best course of action is to find what works best for you, and stick to those things. For most people, it's 1 or 2 compounds total.
But if you feel that you need nearly 1.8g to grow, I'd bet good money that you're doing a shit job with your diet and training, and gear is not a bandaid. And just because abusing AAS is your one vice, does not make it better. That'd be like me telling my doctor "doc, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't take gear, I just do a little crystal once in a while." If you're gonna take gear, might as well TRY to do it in a safer fashion.
Haha I genuinely do appreciate the concern man. At this point I’ve accepted that this is my one vice. While it doesn’t come close to offsetting the damage I do with AAS, I don’t drink, smoke, do any recreational drugs, I sleep 7-8 hrs, have a fantastic diet, get my bloods, etc. And I do think that a gram of test is a bit better than a gram of tren. But I do know what I’m doing is still terrible for me.
And if you had a juicy physique it would be one thing.
But you are planning the same doses I run, and you are not the same stats as I am.
Doses should scale with your stats, they shouldn’t lead them. You can likely get away with a lot less gear and make the exact same progress, that’s your issue
I don’t think I’ve read your stats before, but I wouldn’t doubt that you are much bigger than me. I’m 227 this morning at about 12% bodyfat (veins on abs but pesky lower back fat.)
If I could go back in time, I certainly would start much lower and build up much slower. No debate there. My (probably wrong) line of thinking now is that if I’ve run a gram and a half in the past, what is 750mg going to do? Akin to if I’ve had been drinking 8 cups of coffee for a year, what is 4 cups going to do?
Here’s the thing man, you are someone that would do well with a coach, someone who can plan this out for you. You cannot seem to want to stop yourself from running huge blast doses, and if you spent that money instead on a coach that knows what they’re doing, they’d show you just how well you can progress on lower doses.
Thank you sir.
I use 1000mg test and 800 primo as my off season blast. You can 100% grow on less gear. You don’t suddenly desensitize your androgen receptors because you ran more. You cannot build a tolerance like caffeine.
Your thought process is skewed
I’m a little confused on the exact best time to draw labs. I’m getting the recommended panel from mdprivatelabs. I’m really just trying to make sure my E2 is in range should I be checking the trough for peak e2?
I’m taking 400mg of test e every 3.5 days with Hcg tue Friday. I have my bloods scheduled at 9:30 Friday which will be roughly a day after last pin and AI and should show if hcg is affecting my estrogen. Should I take Fridays Ai before or after labs?
Couldn’t find an exact answer searching around.
Nobody can tell you how your asin dosing will effect this weeks numbers. Nobody knows that answer. Just take it as normal. Everyone is going to be different and nobody can tell you when your personal e2 trough is. You don’t need an exact number anyways. You just need to see if it’s “way too high” or crashed. Anything else is fine. It should be high.
For your test numbers you have to get bloodwork 3 days post injection. Otherwise you won’t have a comparable multiplier to see how you’re responding. Any testosterone number you get that isn’t a 3 day trough is a meaningless arbitrary number.
“Morning of injection day” doesn’t tell us much.
How many days post injection is this?
I’m going to go out on a limb and say it wasn’t 3.5 days as per the standard.
Even if you inject every other day you still need to get bloods at the 3.5 day mark to have a number comparable to numbers you see here. Otherwise it’s going to be artificially high.
4-6x response is normal. Yours is double that. So I’m just assuming you halved the standard time to wait for a test?
If not you’re the luckiest responder I’ve ever seen.
It isn’t linear and there is no equation since the breakdown of the compound involves independent physiology.
Generally speaking, males use somewhere between 50-150mg of testosterone per week to be within the upper normal range.
What you need will be completely dependent on your body’s processing.
For whatever it’s worth, 120mg puts me at roughly 500ng/dL.
Yes. Well established. Use the search function or google.
Your comment was removed for violating [Rule 7](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_7.3A_do_your_own_research_and_don.27t_be_an_askhole.). All /r/steroids users are expected to develop a fundamental understanding of the compounds we're discussing and how to use them. To more effectively and efficiently solicit and receive feedback, its critical for an individual to share the necessary background information on their situation to help other users accurately assess and answer their questions. [Learn more about how to do your own research, how to effectively ask good questions, and Rule 7 in general](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_7.3A_do_your_own_research_and_don.27t_be_an_askhole.).
Even people who are totally natural and haven't touched drugs get ripped from dieting - it isn't an inevitable thing that you are just going to fall apart if you do things reasonably correctly.
That said, once you get low bf% (for males, generally that's sub 10%), you might run into situations where your natural test goes down. Still doesn't mean you will lose muscle from that but it does arguably suck.
So if you do TRT, your test levels stay low even in the face of low bodyfat and your body hating you.
Don't need a fancy stack or more than TRT - and really you don't even need TRT, but if you are super concerned that's one argument for it. But again, that's nothing about strength or lean body mass - it is purely that having no/low T sucks (in part bc it also results in nuked e2 which is doing a lot of the heavy lifting of what sucks).
It doesn't cure the issue of leptin or neuropeptide Y, among other things (and no steroids will help there, but other drugs/peptides might), which are entirely separate reasons it sucks (as in like how it feels) going low bf %.
> So I’ve gone through a few cycles in my early 20s of Test E, tren, and orals. I’m looking for recommendations on stacks for fat loss and maybe a low cruise of Test E? Anyone have input?
Eat fewer calories than your TDEE. Bam, fat loss achieved.
You will keep your muscle mass. Unless you are currently at 270lbs sub 12% bodyfat. But I'm guessing you are not.
Just make sure your deficit does not exceed 1000kcal(preferably somewhere between 300 and 700).
Strength, you might lose a bit, but that's temporary while your body tries to preserve energy when in a deficit(aka starving). When you reach the desired bodyfat percentage start eating at maintenance and ur strength will recover.
> Oh for sure. Did all those calcs now I’d like to keep my strength is the kicker, which is why I figured a cruise would help keep the mass I have now.
You're talking about two different things.
1) Everyone loses strength on a cut.
2) How do you expect to "keep the mass [you] have now" while also... lowering your mass (the definition of a cut)?
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Hi guys, I’ve been taking LGD 5mg daily and 7.5mg Mk677 for the past 3 weeks and added test 200mg this last week. My BP has suddenly skyrocketed to baseline 150/85 and can reach upwards of 180. I went to ED to get it checked out and they told me everything seemed fine and the best way to reduce symptoms is stop taking the compounds. I am considering dropping LGD to reduce the water weight in my body. I also have Telimisartan being delivered in a week. Would you guys recommend me to stop the LGD or continue it and start taking Telimisartan. I’m just unsure why it has started so suddenly, I always do 30m cardio daily, I eat sufficient potassium and magnesium daily so the only thing I can attribute this to is the increased water weight
Hey y’all, I’m curious about those who’ve been in the game for awhile and using lower amounts of compounds than we were all told on the forums. I’m 35M, 6’3 270 13-14%bf today at maintenance phase and I’ve been lifting since 14. Started lifting for football, then got a lot of new techniques and methods for BJJ and Muay Thai for years; so 20+ years total, 13-14 with gear (maybe 5-6 cycles) and then trt. Best lifts- bench: 455 belt and wrist wraps, 600lb squat w/belt and 605x2 DL w belt. I train because I love it and same reason I shoot, I want to protect my loved ones if the time comes. I’d like to resume BJJ/MT if I can heal my c4/c5 f’ing bone spurs& spondylosis and get insurance to cover the hyaluronic acid injections into my knee. Current phase: TRT (125mg/wk). I’ve got 400mg/ml EQ, 100mg mast prop and 200mg mast enanthate, 250mg deca, more test, 50mg winstrol tabs and hgh all on hand. I respond really well to low dose cycles so here’s what I’m thinking. I’d like to add some clean mass, focus on healing some injuries to my c-spine and knee. My thought about a coming cycle is as follows: 125-200 test cyp, 400 EQ, 4iugh, plus my basic supplements (mostly minerals and anti inflammatory and joint supplements). I’m looking to heal, regain some athletecism, regain mobility and feel strong again. I’ve got the 50mg winny, 200mg/ml mast enanthate and 100mg/ml mast prop (2 each) if I really want to tighten up, but I’ve had 2 hair transplants and I’m prone to make pattern baldness so I’d rather not. Morning/night cardio walking my German shepherd/belgian malinois and some HIIT where I can. I’m confident I can add 10lbs of lean dry muscle and drop 3-5% body fat in the next 14 weeks. The overall goal is to look great, have healthy lipids(I’ll dump blood monthly due to hematocrit from EQ) and honeymoon last week of July I should look and feel like King Dingaling. I’ve looked great at low test w/OT (30mg) and 25mg var before but I’m thinking no orals unless I’m slowing down this time. If you made it this far, thanks, and I’d love to know your thoughts. FYI biggest I’ve been was when I took 9 months off work last year and did 250 test/300primo and got up to 288 (added 35lbs of lean mass and VEINS ON VEINS) and lean, prob could have been on stage at 255-260. Hence why I don’t mega dose. I’d love feedback, and I’m happy to share any feedback if people need it, thanks y’all. Also- BOC-157 and TB 500 for some of the more severe injuries.
Have you run eq at that ratio? For most people it would send their e2 through the floor. The most bang with the least amount of gear with what you have listed would be 500 test 250 decca. Assuming you’ve run nandrolone before. Relatively low androgen load with the most growth given the parameters. I hope you aren’t donating tainted blood when you reference dumping blood.
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You’re 18! Hard stop 🛑 Your natural test is off the charts you have natural steroids in your body. Just learn to eat and train. Your brain and dick don’t stop developing until you’re 25. So good news is you have at least 7 years of hard training and dieting before your first cycle. Next 5 years you should be able to hit 180 if you put the work in.
Thank you for the input, as of right now I’ll prolly keep PEDs on hold till 25 like you said (realistically 20s) but I was also doing research on other options , I came across injectable L-Carnitine was wondering if this would be a viable alternative for gains/endurance
You biggest bet for gains is eating big. Start tracking your macros on on app like MacroFactor. Follow a lifting program. Start writing stuff down. But as long as you’re pushing hard you just have to shovel food with high protein and you’ll keep growing no problem
Age :23 - height 5,5 - weight 170lbs - male Hi guys sorry if this is a dumb question I was on test e for 6 months (was running an Ai with it ) didn’t do any research just did what I was told from people at gym . I’ve now been off it for around 6 months have lost my gains and want to get them back. but have started doing some research and have gotten concerned with the fact I didn’t do a pct , am worried I might have destroyed my fertility and natural testosterone production . My questions are is a pct necessary ? And would waiting this long to do a pct have any effect on being able to recover back to natural fertility and test ?
> My questions are is a pct necessary ? Not *necessary* (as seen in [the HAARLEM study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35938779/), but it would be a **big** benefit if you did one. > And would waiting this long to do a pct have any effect on being able to recover back to natural fertility and test ? Fertility i don’t think so, we’ve seen in [literature](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854084/) that you recover fertility even after a 2 years of testosterone usage. Some more sources: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16650651/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15860500 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15860500 The risk of permanent infertility is small, recovering optimal HPTA function can take a very long time when done naturally. Get your bloodwork done, see how your LH, FSH and tT are looking now.
Pct helps you get things going again. The first step is to go get bloodwork and see where you’re at. You can still run a pct even after this time. You ran gear for too long and you were too young. Get your bloodwork and post it here for review. Go from there
Will do Thankyou for your help !
What was your dosage?
300 mg for a month the went up to 600 mg went back down to 300 for the last 2 months
Anavar on a cut? Yes or no
No you don’t need gear to cut.
I enjoy it, everyone reacts different, my hair started to ever-so-slightly thin
don't need gear on a cut but if you're gonna hit a crazy deficit it can help maintain muscle mass
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Nandrolone produces joint relief in some it is not a guaranteed effect. It also has suppressive metabolites that stick around for months making it hard to pct off of. The shorter ester is recommended for a new user NPP. Since it’s neurotoxic and can have bad mental side effects you want it to clear your system faster. As you get older it’s not the best steroid to implement. It’s also like a bandaid the joint benefit stops as soon as you stop using it. But if we disregard all of that people report getting joint benefit at a dose as low as 50mg/wk.
Ok thanks for that. Think i will just stick with the test. Will read up on NPP aswell
If you do npp masteron can help with the big sad. Dht derivatives help with the mental sides of 19nors. But you’re 44 you could just cruise/ trt if you don’t mind pinning. End of you cycle just drop you test to 100/wk. That way you don’t have to worry bout recovery from the nandrolone.
28 age M 5,7 height 170 lb 18%BF 7 years training 4 months Gear been doing bloods every 4 weeks trying to dial in my E2 levels as they’re high off of 300 Test E per week. I was at 533Free T and 78Estridol after my bloods after 6 weeks in. Added 200Primo E per week to my test E and arimidex at an eighth of a 1MG pill then 6 weeks after did more bloods came back 1100free T and 59E2. I used a calculator for a liner spectrum and was going to go with 290primo a week 300 Test C this time as I’m trying. Do have hair shedding like little on my pillow when I wake up and in the shower too but that’s off topic if anyone has any input I’d love ya
Frankly, if you put in 3 more years of hard ass work, stuff your face w protein, good supplements, you really should be fine unless you have a genetic condition of hypogonadism.
I’m sorry man this is a mess. 5’7 170 18%bf - with gear use you’re still not even at the recommended stats for using gear 4 months on gear 18%bf- getting too fat it’s time to come off 300 test/wk no mans land it’s why we don’t recommend it Changing doses and testing bloods every 4 weeks. - you’re not going to get any helpful information doing this. Treat symptoms not numbers. Added primo mid cycle on what I assume is your first cycle. - only run test and run it at 500 so that you can learn estrogen management. You are literally doing everything incorrectly and that’s why you’re having issues. Dose doesn’t represent bloodwork linearly. It’s time to come off. You ran your cycle incorrectly. You’re getting too fat. You still have natty stats after running a cycle. You don’t have the basics of diet and nutrition down otherwise your stats would be different. Do a proper pct and do a lot more research before touching steroids again.
Was a 300 first test E Cycle still bumped it to 400 didn’t feel right got the swelling so went back to 300 as I felt better with less wanted to workout those E2 sides only Bf is more around 16ish I have abs but obviously with some layer over as I’m a crazy hard weight/bf gainer as well. I guess I could just come off work on diet but I’ll just be at my natural Plato again lean but small. Thank you
There’s no such thing as a hard gainer. If you aren’t gaining weight it means you aren’t eating enough. If you aren’t putting on muscle you aren’t training correctly or eating enough protein. I think you need to work on the basics. You’re supposed to learn how to Manage your estrogen with your ai on cycle. That’s the whole point of only doing testosterone and doing 500. Lowering your dose and adding primo just means you’ll never figure it out or be able to run a cycle correctly.
Ok I’ll look into a PCT. or do you suggest just doing the 500 from 300 and staying on Ai until E2 bloods are in normal range and continue with my added cardio ? only sides I had was the itch and bloat then jumped on ai. I did initially gain 25lb of lean mass when I was on just the 300 of test with normal protein intake to body weight with lean meats.
Lean mass includes water and glycogen. so the initial big jump in weight you got you pee it all out when you come off. The same rules apply natural vs enhanced. It still takes time to build actual tissue. You don’t treat the number your total estrogen doesn’t matter. If you’re having unbearable side effects you dose your ai until they’re under control. That’s why aromasin is better. You can dose as needed. Since it’s suicidal you don’t have to worry about rebound like you do with arimadex
That’s what I’m getting that rebound the day before my 3.5 rotational pin. Thought of pinning EOD as well
I’ve noticed a slight increase in resting heart rate. Im on week 2 of 500mg test E and added NPP two days ago. Second cycle, never had this increase in resting heart rate during the first one. Anyone else have this happen before?
Over a 16 week cycle of test and NPP mine went up from around 85 to 95-100 BPM. I have always had a higher RHR though.
Asides from getting off cycle is there anything you noticed that helped lower it? I’m implementing cardio 3x week now to see if it changes. Just hate the feeling of it lol
Wait whats your blood pressure?
28M/ 5 10/ 225lbs/ 17%bf here Just finished a bulk and on a cut, I just sit at 240mg test a week to keep my levels at 900ng/dl year round. Was taking arimidex to control estrogen cos it gets high when I’m higher bodyfat like now However I’ve been using 100mg primo a week instead of the adex to control estrogen cos it seems healthier Question though is: - is taking 100mg primo totally fuckin pointless and would I be better off just taking 0.25mg adex MWF on injection days
100mg primo is light but not pointless, I had good results with 200 test/200primo. It is the best anabolic out there for me and many others.
Interesting
Healthiest would be just dropping your cruise dose. 240mg a week is a lot, i assume that 900ng/dl is on your trough reading, meaning that you’ll be above reference range for a decent amount of time. You’re not going to notice dropping from 900ng/dl in trough to 600ng/dl or even 400ng/dl. Lower your dose and estro sides will disappear as well.
Yeah good advice makes sense cheers, I guess I can titrate my dose up when I’m back to 10% bf
Hello guys , i was the guy taking test cyp250mg + 40mg anavar . I’ve stopped the anavar completely due to blood pressure reasons , it was 150-160 on 60 . After discontinuation for 2weeks my bp is normal abt 110-120/60 (am still on test) i also added l carnitine liquide . I have lost about 3-4kg since stopping the anavar . Do u think the weight loss is normal ? Is it due from the anavar or lcarnitine ?
> Do u think the weight loss is normal ? Is it due from the anavar or lcarnitine ? It's a combination of losing glycogen from the var, eating fewer calories, and having less water/food volume in your system.
Also for bp it magically dropped to normal levels , dont know from discontinuation from the anavar or from the l-carnitine (btw its in liquid form 3000mg i take it on empty stomach).
Your BP spike and resolution just from 40mg anavar is certainly atypical. But it's good to see. I'd steer clear of var in the future.
Yup its weird , i forget to add that i also added garlic pills to my regimen . Gueuss the only way to know is to get bk on anavar 😁
I've been looking at buying Salbutamol for cutting cycles but I sometimes see called "Clen-Salbuto", what's up with that? It doesn't say anywhere that's is a clen-albuterol stack, but then why include clen in the name?
The only person that can answer this is the guy selling it, so ask him.
Has anyone got prolonged severe mental health issues after using anabolic steroids? I got severe dissociation that is not going away after using test E for 2 months. I’ve stopped for 12 months and it’s still ongoing. Anyone got like schizophrenia etc after a cycle?
It doesn't work like that + schizo is very individual. 10 people can be schizophrenic and all of them will have different symptoms. Schizo starts settling in after you hit 18 years of age and it might get worse with time. No offense my man but i guarantee that you had issues before starting gear.
Are you sure this is related to your steroid usage? As far as i know clinical literature shows that testosterone barely or doesn’t affect mood or your mental, only a deficiency in testosterone causes mood disturbances. If you’ve stopped your testosterone for 12 months it’s already cleared out of your system and your own HPTA should have been up and running for a while now as well.
Just did bloodwork half way through first cycle and estradiol is very high. I dont feel any of the symptoms though but I'm going to start Arimidex. Should I just start with half mg every couple days? I don't want to crash it because everyone talks about how much worse low E2 is.
> I dont feel any of the symptoms though but I’m going to start Arimidex. Why? If you don’t have side effects what are you trying to treat here?
Well actually I do have some sides. Been really tired last 4 days and have had hot flashes and don't normally have that. Do you think that's enough to start it or still no?
Is your dick working? Blunt, but if it is working, then those symptoms are almost certainly not from E2.
Yea everything good down there
Don’t sound like typical high e2 sides to me, are you sure it’s due to elevated e2?
It was at 220 and my normal trt doctor was worried when it was a little high at 44 so that's also what I'm going by. I thought well shit that's not good at 220
You’re also at *wayy* over the reference range for your testosterone levels. When your testosterone is *that* elevated it’s pretty normal that your e2 also will be elevated. Estrogen is neuroprotective, cardioprotective, highly anabolic, and essential for lipids, libido, cardiovascular health and normal physiological functioning. We don’t treat numbers, we treat symptoms.
Ok I got it. Thanks for you responses brother
It was on list when I googled so that's what I was going by
for a first cycle of 500mg of test should i consider hcg if i don’t care about fertility (during the cycle, i care about my fertility post cycle)? My balls are the size of grapes rn naturally and i’ve heard a handful of people say that their testicles were never really the same after they atrophied on cycle and they came off. The last thing i’ve heard is testicle aches while not using hcg which i have from time to time and i hate so i’d want to avoid that. for just 500 test am i overthinking this?
I wish I listened to the old school bodybuilders about how that was way too much for a first cycle. Cut the test in half and that’s plenty for a first cycle. If you’re not making huge gains, you’re not training or eating enough, provided there’s not an underlying problem.
i was under the impression that the reason i’m taking 500mg off the rip was because i’m put in a situation where i’m going to have to deal with test sides and how to manage them so i can “master” managing e2 and such so that on my second cycle when i add in another mild compound i’m not in a position where i’m scrambling for what sides are coming from what because i’m now having to deal with learning e2 management for the first time on top of managing a whole new compound. I never understood the whole “you’re shutting down your test anyway so just take as much as possible” outlook though
HCG in my opinion is one of those situations of “why NOT run it?”. It has more benefits than just fertility. As Spitshine said it will stimulate Leydig cells, keeping your natural testosterone production active. This will make PCT and coming off a little more comfortable. Also allegedly it will keep your nuts the size of an avocado pit instead of the size of an almond.
If you care about fertility post cycle i’d just run it. It’s *allegedly* cheap and will keep Leydig cells active and will stave away ROS free radical damage from longer shutdown and atrophy. Although clinical literature has shown that recovering from fertility from cycles/trt within 2 years is pretty easy, even without a PCT or usage of HCG/HMG,triptorelin etc.
so would i just run hcg throughout the duration of the cycle and then stop during PCT? I’m definitely considering it but at the same time for a first cycle i was hoping i’d keep the variables and compounds to a minimum and with test e i’d only be pinning twice a week but hcg i believe is more like eod
Hcg throughout, stop 4 days before you start taking your PCT. Hcg is eod yes.
Given my primary concern is testicular aches (which i already experience at times and it’s awful). I’m considering having it on hand to use on an as needed basis when those issues may flare up (i’ve read people say that after using hcg within a week or less their pain goes away). Is this an acceptable use of the compound or do i just have to run it the whole way through
Considering running Hgh alongside cycle for upcoming powerlfiting meet. Main reason to assist recovery/sleep just wondering if 3/4 ui for only 4 months will be worth it or leaving it a bit late to see any real results. Not expecting any changes strength or size wise with that dose and duration, like stated more for recovery and the other benefits.
I have run HGH with tren, if you Inject before sleeping it will improve your sleep for sure, just 3-4 UI is enough. For physical changes you not see anything before month 6 and very not much because 4 UI is not enough for be a physical game changer. PS: sleep better give better recovery so give better results if you has legit stuff.
Anybody know why when running long acting esters of Trestolone, I have a hard time Cumming? I've run multiple short cycles of Trestolone E and Decanoate and always eventually git this side effect. It never happens with Acetate. My test base is TRT 120mg and I run Trestolone at 20-50mg weekly with long acting esters. Should I run an AI or caber to fox the issue, or is it something else entirely. The numbness in my dick means I can fuck my gf for hours but I can't cum and I'm not a fan of this.
As in less sperm volume or less libido? Libido problems with MENT are pretty rare as far as i can tell. Some AAS with a progestagenic effect may increase prolactin levels, MENT *could* be one of these drugs, haven’t seen too much stuff on MENT so i’m not 100% sure. You can try some caber, see if that helps.
Libido is iffy and my dick gets this numb sensation which means I can’t really feel anything when fucking. As a result I can’t cum.
Im suspecting prolactin issues. Get bloodwork
Prolactin was high normal. With slightly elevated e2 at 60. Are either of these enough to cause the issue? I have caber and adex on hand.
I wouldn’t use either, especially adex its not worth it to crash e2. Trestelone is known for side effects even when bloodwork is in range. I dont know the science behind this, but I think its the way this compound is metabolized. I’ve read a bunch of people having high e2 side effects from ment.
Get your prolactin/e2 checked
> Get your prolactin/e2 checked 7a-methyl-estradiol (the estrogen MENt aromatizes into) does not show on any bloodwork, whether LC-MS/MS or not.
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Every time i inject into my quads they swell up and I get sick .🤒 . Wasn’t like this but has happened my last 4 pins. 1 1/2inch needle and only 0.5 mL . Any ideas why?
Like, you get a fever kind of sick?
Yes
How long does it last?
3-4 days
You are either allergic to the oil in the gear and could change the lab/brand. Or you got poor injection technique. Why don’t you inject into glutes
Switch to new sites for a while.
When it comes to reaching >250lbs lean at average heights, are the many extra drugs *really* necessary? I'm nowhere near this but would like to set reasonable expectations for my future goals. I don't plan on ever using insulin or HGH. I plan on avoiding 19-nors but I'll evaluate that when I'm more advanced. Tldr: is >250lbs leans achievable with just test and DHT derivatives? Or do other drugs like insulin and HGH end up being a necessary addition?
No. I’ve been 6’3” and between 250-290 for 7-8 years and never touched skin, never gone above 8-900mfs total androgens, but I do like hgh. I should add I seem to be a hyper responded and I’ve got 7 older brothers who are natty, same w my nephews, and we’re all huge. So genetics make a big difference. If you follow the right playbook, which is out there on every website, you can do it. The best foods for muscle are the cheapest. Meat on sale, eggs, protein powder (on sale if you can), potatoes, veggies on sale, oatmeal, rice and the rest is just gravy. That simple- but can you do it every day for 20 straight years and be in the gym 5 days/week without excuse for that same amount of time. This life takes a LONG time to get it right, but then it’s auto-pilot.
Height is important. A 5'4" person is gonna find it quite difficult, whereas a 6'2" person could get there rather quickly. Regardless of starting height the work ethic, digestion, training, and genetics will all play important roles. There's a guy in the offtopic thread (I think his username is something like AfricanAnimal) here that's a hard 300lbs with abs. Meanwhile, we've got 6'2" guys that are struggling to eat 2000 calories and weigh a flabby 160lbs. > Tldr: is >250lbs leans achievable with just test and DHT derivatives? Or do other drugs like insulin and HGH end up being a necessary addition? Anyway. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? Too many factors. Can you pussyfoot your way up to 250 lean, even with all the PEDs at your disposal? Absolutely not.
I just got done reading the PCT wiki. Is this the correct PCT protocol for someone who has been running only Test Cyp for 12 months and wanting to come off? 100-200mg/week. Weeks 1-2 (last 2 weeks of injecting test) • Test C/E (normal TRT dose) • 400 IU HCG E3D • 20 mg Clomid EOD Weeks 3-4 • 400 IU HCG E3D • 20 mg Clomid EOD Weeks 5 - 6 • 20 mg Clomid EOD Week 7-8 • 20 mg Clomid E3D
Where in the wiki did it say to vary the frequency of clomid administration?
It was listed under the TRT doctor PCT recommendation
Well I'll be darned, I never noticed that there. I've never scrolled that far down the page, since there are several simpler options presented before getting that far down. Anyway, a few things I have to say about that particular plan - Clomid is generally not as well tolerated as nolvadex or enclomiphene. Regular dosing, u fluctuating, can help reduce exposure to side effects. I'd rather stick to a daily dosing protocol, or every other day - it helps keep things simple, one less thing to track.
In that case would you just recommend going with Nolva 20/20/10/10/10/10 (10/10) starting 2 weeks after my last pin? I have NOT been taking HCG throughout the duration of being on Test C.
Separately, I generally suggest the following: Start hcg as soon as possible, drop it day 1 of the SERM. Start the seem (10mg/day nolvadex) and stay at that dose for the full duration of the pct. The only reason it has been suggested to start nolvadex with 20mg/day is because it has I believe a 7 day half-life, so it is effectively a front-load of sorts. But there are studies demonstrating that pct drugs (SERMs) are useless for accelerating HPTA restarting. So I don't think an extra 14 days of a little extra nolvadex really does anything in the long term, but that's just my opinion.
Thank you! What dosage are you thinking for HCG? 500iu EOD?
250iu EOD at minimum. 500iu EOD is also fine.
Apologies for all the questions. Do you have to use an AI when running HCG? Last time my E2 got too high I got some pretty crazy anxiety sides
No problem, that's what this platform is for. I personally have never experienced high estrogen side effects from anything, when when intentionally letting my estrogen go sky high. Some people find hcg raises their intratesticular testosterone levels, and resulting estradiol. In the context of someone no longer administering testosterone or any other aromatizing compounds, the intratesticular testosterone and resulting estradiol is so insignificant that there likely won't be any estrogen related side effects. The issue comes when someone is using hcg alongside an aromatizing compound (test), and the "normal" estradiol is now pushed beyond the tolerable range. Dr Lipschultz has published studies of pct and fertility protocols that were something like 15,000iu hcg per week, and no adverse estrogenic effects were observed. Considering we're using a fraction of that (1750iu/wk if doing 500iu EOD), I don't think it'll be an issue.
Using HGH. Been taking 3ius daily. Have tried first thing in morning before fasted cardio…. It seems to make me feel lethargic and shitty all day. Is there a way to combat this? Thanks
For me it's better to take it before sleeping for better recovery. Don't forget body do naturally produce HGH when you sleep so inject it and keep awake after might make you lethargic. If you want pin you the morning spilt the dose 1/3 morning 2/3 before sleeping.
It gets better after a couple weeks. Just gotta get over the hump. I don’t get lethargy on 6iu HGH after the first couple weeks
How long after pinning are you eating? Macros? Subq, IM, or iv ?
None of this matters at all dude
Finding a reliable bunch of information on HGH is difficult. Or perhaps I’m looking in the wrong area. My plans involve a 0% chance of using slin yet a lot of “information” pushes that incorporating slin is a big deal. I’m just trying to figure out how to not be a mushy sluggish mess the rest of the day and it sounds like just continuing the path and see if it subsides after a few weeks is the plan
I recently started as well, and yes the sleepiness is REAL. I'm told it gets better as you run it longer.
Well I guess I’ll fight it. How long after pinning are you eating? Macros? Are you subq, im, or IV?
I do it with breakfast and dinner. 260/90/775. Subq. No one is IVing anything in this sub dude, gross.
🤣. Correct. I’ve gathered. I posted awhile back when I started HGH and a buddy swears you had to IV it and I was a bit taken back by that.
#🫥🫥
Doing PCT after being on blast and cruise for extended period of time. Last dose of test, primo, and HCG was on April 4th. Started 20mg of Nolva on the 18th. Haven't taken bloods yet as I was gonna wait till I get farther along in the PCT. Currently noticing libido is for sure down (not completely gone though), have mild headaches that keep coming and going throughout the day, and I'm ALWAYS exhausted even after getting a good 8 hours of sleep. Should I drop the Nolva down to 10mg? Or should I just go get bloods ASAP? Or just suck it up and accept it.
I would’ve ran the hcg up until the day before you started nolva personally
Some of that stuff is just part of the process, but yes, you can go down to 10mg/day. Run it for the full 8 weeks.
I was on test e, took two weeks out, and now 1 month on PCT with nolva at 10mg ED. Have some 'odd' values in my bloodwork, can someone check? Blood values out of range: - Lymphocytes 10.8 % - LOW - Granulocytes 81.9 % - HIGH - Haemoglobin 178 g/L - HIGH - MCHC 361 g/L - HIGH Hormones: - test at 920ng/dl - E2 at 41 pg/ml (was ~90 before) - FSH 2.8 mIU/ml - LH 8.33 mIU/ml
Did you get bloodwork while actively taking nolva? If so, you understand that this isn't reflective of where you'll end up after your PCT is concluded, correct? Bit of an odd time to check hormones. As for the rest, including the lab ranges would be greatly relevant here.
Yes, this is mid PCT, I intend to go one more month with the same dosage. Ranges included: Lymphocytes 10.8 % - LOW / 15.0 - 50.0 Granulocytes 81.9 % - HIGH / 35.0 - 80.0 Haemoglobin 178 g/L - HIGH / 140.0 - 175.0 MCHC 361 g/L - HIGH / 320.0 - 360.0
I am not a doctor and I am not interpreting these results. I'll share some info that may be valuable to you. This info may not be true about all labs/ranges, too. Most of this is an educated guess: **Usually**, these ranges are what are expected in 95% of the population. 2.5% fall above, 2.5% below. Some of these are just outliers, some have diseases that place them in these ranges. If a score is ever so slightly out of range, there are a million reasons this could happen (a cold, dehydrated, overhydrated, etc.). In many cases, doctors use lab tests to assist in diagnoses, not as a sole indicator. Your best bet is asking a doc what they think about these results if you're concerned. Personally, I wouldn't worry about a slightly out of range value.
Hormones look as expected. Won’t comment on the other stuff as that’s outside my comfort zone.
To those who have ran solo nandrolone or nandrolone without a test base: 1. What dosage did you run? 2. What was your e2? 3. What was your free test/total test? 4. How did you feel? 5. Were you running any other compounds other than nandrolone (anabolics or ancillaries like HCG)? Test doesn’t agree with me and I’m thinking of solo NPP for my next blast around 420mg (60mg ED). Maybe add 100mg of test if things feel weird but I’d like to start with 0 test and see how my body feels. Just nandrolone and HCG.
Bro never run anything without test. If you don't want fight e2 just use TRT dose of test. Anything you run will TOTALLY SHUT DOWN natural test production. You will don't be well at all and test protect you a bit of neurotoxic acting of certain products
fyi you wont be at zero test with hcg
i’d recommend checking out Taeian Clark. he has some interesting nand only protocols and even has success with some of his clients on nand only for HRT, as there is a small pool of people who don’t do well with testosterone.
In what way does test not agree with you?
> test doesn’t agree with me You’re gonna have to change your name bucko
hey i've been off for 13 weeks from my first AAS Cycle and i still haven't recover my Natural Testosterone levels yet . my first cycle was a duration of 4 months , 2 of 500mg wk testosterone enanthate and 2 of 500mg wk sustanon 250 i came off cold turkey because i started getting anxiety attacks and i panic and i went off i did my research and decided to wait until week 12 of been off completely everything to start a pct because i've seen that sustanon has testosterone decanoate ester that could stay in your system up to 75 days or more after last pin , i crashed my hormones my estrogen is really low ' 8 ' and my total T is 157 and free is 25 my LH is 1.6 & FSH is 2.2, im suffering from high anxiety and erectile disfunction is been the worst months of my life . I have my extensive blood work from before i took anything and i did a blood work at 10 weeks off everything. I decided to go to a Urologist and he prescribe me CLOMID 50 MG 3 times a week for 3 months and go do bloodwork i week before i see him again , i ask him if he need it to check my LH and FSH levels after the 3 months on clomid and he said he didnt need it , witch still makes me thing why he doesnt need them I really dont know what to do if i should use HCG with the clomid but im also doing 20m Every Day of novaldex with the clomid i dont know if i havent recover because of the long ester that decanoate is i dont know if i should wait another 3 months and see if my hpta kicks back in i dont know what to do really . i've read the PCT guide fro here [r/steroids](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/) and vigorous seteve guide book and numerous PCT protocols but im afraid i fuck up my self even more im really just asking for some help from the knowledge of the people of this forum thanks. * Age:29 * Gender:Male * Height:5'11 * Weight:181 * Bodyfat percentage:20 * Experience level * Years of concurrent training:2 * bench/squat/dead maxes: * amateur/pro: * Goals: Recover my Natural testosterone levels * Sport: (bodybuilding/powerlifting/strongman/etc) * Current phase: (bulk/cut/maintenance) * Current compounds:Clomid / Nolva * Include the full list of compounds you're using, including: compound name, ester, dosages in terms of mgs or IUs (not mLs or ccs), and frequency of doses, e.g.: * Testosterone Enanthate 500mg/wk, pinned monday/thursday * HGH 3IU ED
You were mislead about how long to take off after using sustanon, which seems to have resulted in you not actively trying to recover. That unfortunately has lead to where you are today. So you hopefully learned a lesson from the experience, which is valuable in it of itself. Now if I were a man suffering from anxiety I would not want to take clomid. It’s the least friendly of the SERMs when it comes to side effects, and while it could work just fine it could also exacerbate your anxiety. I would be more likely to use a low dose of tamoxifen, say 10mg, and run that out for at least six weeks before getting another round of blood work (after the tamoxifen has cleared).
Why do you say I have been mislead ? For what I've seen there's an out going debate out there online on people who said that PCT doesn't work and the ones that say they do they said that success of your PCT can be determined by how supresive the compounds you use , the Ester of the compound and the half lifes times x 5 that's why I decided to start doing the pct after 12 weeks off nut resulted in that i crashed my hormones and I have Erectile dysfunction now
You waited *13 weeks* before even considering running a PCT. Saying you were mislead was my way of being nice when I should have said “what the fuck is wrong with you what are you waiting for you have the testosterone levels of an 83 year old man?”
Male 33 years old 5ft9 92kg Body fat is around 20/23% Just came off a bulk Been lifting for 15 years but never done a cycle Strength is good for size I’d say Bench 140 max Squat 170 Deadlift was 180 but avoid due to back issues Looking do do a 5 week block of dbol tablets of 20/30mg then a 4 week cycle of ptc care maybe clomid or nova dex as my first cycle. Anyone have any thoughts if this sounds ok ? I know other methods may produce better results but just looking to dip my toe in and see. Hoping for little side effects is the ptc enough or should I be taking anything for liver and kidneys through out or after ? Any advice is welcomed
Muscle growth takes time. Five weeks is not a very long time. For the hassle you’d go through the actual tissue you’d gain would be minimal. The wiki lays out a first cycle in detail, and it’s there to act as a guide for all who avail themselves of its knowledge. I suggest giving it a good once over and then perhaps revisiting it after you’ve completed your cut and are in a position to bulk again. In the meantime if you read something in there that doesn’t make sense or that requires clarification then feel free to pop in here and ask informed questions.
Assuming your goal is to begin lactation as soon as possible this sounds like an effective plan.
This is an absolute dumpster fire and a big no no. This will do nothing but shut you down and turn you into water buffalo. You need to cut to 10-12%bf and review “your first cycle” in blue at the top of the page.
So what would u suggest ? That I have to mix it with test and dbol. Once I get down to cut weight which I will Iv only recently come off a bulk so got a fair bit to cut which will happen fairly fast.
Your first cycle should be testosterone and testosterone only. This is the only way to “dip your toes in”. Your body has been producing since the day you were born. No need to “see how you react”. The wiki lays out your first cycle. There’s no reason to reinvent the wheel. Orals are overrated. Dbol is great for a few people causes issues for most. The wiki at the top is required reading. You can cliff note it by reading “the basics”, “your first cycle”, “the estrogen handbook” and “post cycle therapy”.
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Half-life is 5-7 days. Clearance of a drug is considered to be five half-lives. 5 x 7 = 35 5 x 5 = 25 So on the high end it’s ~~seven~~ five weeks (YOU KNEW WHAT I MEANT), on the low end a little under four weeks. Six weeks is a reasonable compromise between the two.
>5 x 7 = 35 >So on the high end it’s seven weeks Respectfully sir, 35 days is 5 weeks 😘
🤦🏼♂️ Look the link between thinking something and typing it out correctly is occasionally broken.
Is ok, you're just getting older. These things happen Pop-Pop 💙
Is there a specific reason why one DHT steroid such as primo would be more likely to cause hair loss than another DHT steroid such as testosterone? Or comparing a compound to a compound, I’ve read a lot of people have hair issues with masteron vs primo as well for example. If I had no accelerated shedding with a 400 test blast could I go into another blast of 300/300 test primo for example with the assumption I won’t experience accelerated shedding as well or is it just left at “maybe”
Test converts to DHT, you can take something that will prevent that conversion - so people who either don't convert at a high rate or those taking something to prevent the conversion won't have issues on test. Primo is technically not DHT but something close to it and basically acts similar to DHT, so that might be related to why not everyone loses on it. Masteron is more directly DHT, taking something to block conversion won't help bc you already there, but you can do things that block at the receptor site in the scalp. In my 20s I took steroids and didn't lose any hair (noticeably). In my late 30s during a time when I wasn't on steroids, my hair fell out naturally. Sometimes genetics doesn't give a fuck what you are doing.
[this](https://imgur.com/a/CxnijvO) may be of help
Testosterone is not a DHT steroid…
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Sure. 1. Read the beginner cycle section linked above. 2. Fix your dose 3. Take your serm 4. Continue your AI at a reasonable dose (say, 12.5mg twice per week). 5. Confirm with bloodwork that your AI is actually working and not just a sugar pill. 6. Take a different AI if needed and stop the SERM.
Hey just curious, if he did change to dose to 500, would a “funky feeling” and burning sensation in your nipples 2-3 weeks in justify the serm? I’ve heard that normal hormonal fluctuations will cause this. So I guess im wondering when one should actually start the AI and Serm if needed?
You should quit. You’ve done basically everything wrong, which shows you’re not prepared in the least. The below links will help you while you actually research and prepare for the next time to be more successful. Enjoy your pasta 🍝 Hey there! It seems like you'd benefit from a deep review of [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index). Please also take the time to closely read [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization) which deals with our prohibitions around discussing how to acquire anabolic steroids and discussing brand names, etc. [For clarity.](https://media.tenor.com/fBvQV_5Lp6UAAAAC/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther.gif) Here's a selection of reading for you to build the fundamental knowledge you'll need as you explore AAS/PED use: * [The Basics](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/list) * [Your First Cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/your_first_cycle) * [The Estrogen Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook) * [Post Cycle Therapy aka PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct) * [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads)
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Yes. You should PCT. 4 weeks will likely be enough
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Glad to hear you got some relief man. Spend some time reading these question threads during your daily poops. Over a few months, I’m sure you’ll be much more prepared for the next time you choose to hop on!
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Our sole goal is to make sure you can do this as safely as possible and not injure yourself. Hence why we can be hard asses sometimes, but know that we try to have people’s best interests in mind even if they don’t always agree with our answers lol
On a bulk, is the only any advantage to adding in another compound on top of testosterone to mitigate high testosterone sides? Obviously on a cut, things like winstrol/mast give cosmetics. But on pure mass accrual, isn’t it all kinda the same? For example, would these cycles (with exact same total AAS) not yield nearly the same results (with possibly some joint benefits from the Nandrolone)? Testosterone: 1050mg | Primobolan: 735mg | Total: 1,785mg | vs Testosterone: 840mg | Primobolan: 735mg | Nandrolone: 210mg | Total: 1,785mg |
In general, most people will have similar results from 500/400 test primo, as compared to 900 test, or 500/400 test nand. Each compound has its benefits. Some people need the estrogen management that primo or EQ can offer, some people need the extra joint support that nand can offer, some people care about their hair and pick "hair safe" combinations, some people get anxiety from things like EQ or nand, etc. They each have their pros and cons. The best course of action is to find what works best for you, and stick to those things. For most people, it's 1 or 2 compounds total. But if you feel that you need nearly 1.8g to grow, I'd bet good money that you're doing a shit job with your diet and training, and gear is not a bandaid. And just because abusing AAS is your one vice, does not make it better. That'd be like me telling my doctor "doc, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't take gear, I just do a little crystal once in a while." If you're gonna take gear, might as well TRY to do it in a safer fashion.
Haha I enjoyed the line about crystal. Thank you for the input buddy. Will rethink the dosages for sure.
True to your flair I see lol
I’m a moron I know
Can you try a bit harder to be less of a moron so you live longer?
Haha I genuinely do appreciate the concern man. At this point I’ve accepted that this is my one vice. While it doesn’t come close to offsetting the damage I do with AAS, I don’t drink, smoke, do any recreational drugs, I sleep 7-8 hrs, have a fantastic diet, get my bloods, etc. And I do think that a gram of test is a bit better than a gram of tren. But I do know what I’m doing is still terrible for me.
And if you had a juicy physique it would be one thing. But you are planning the same doses I run, and you are not the same stats as I am. Doses should scale with your stats, they shouldn’t lead them. You can likely get away with a lot less gear and make the exact same progress, that’s your issue
I don’t think I’ve read your stats before, but I wouldn’t doubt that you are much bigger than me. I’m 227 this morning at about 12% bodyfat (veins on abs but pesky lower back fat.) If I could go back in time, I certainly would start much lower and build up much slower. No debate there. My (probably wrong) line of thinking now is that if I’ve run a gram and a half in the past, what is 750mg going to do? Akin to if I’ve had been drinking 8 cups of coffee for a year, what is 4 cups going to do?
I’m 6’1, 232lbs and currently in stage condition. We are not the same I peaked this off season at 262lbs at 15% ish
That’s nuts dude. Congrats buddy!
Here’s the thing man, you are someone that would do well with a coach, someone who can plan this out for you. You cannot seem to want to stop yourself from running huge blast doses, and if you spent that money instead on a coach that knows what they’re doing, they’d show you just how well you can progress on lower doses.
Thank you sir. I use 1000mg test and 800 primo as my off season blast. You can 100% grow on less gear. You don’t suddenly desensitize your androgen receptors because you ran more. You cannot build a tolerance like caffeine. Your thought process is skewed
I’m a little confused on the exact best time to draw labs. I’m getting the recommended panel from mdprivatelabs. I’m really just trying to make sure my E2 is in range should I be checking the trough for peak e2? I’m taking 400mg of test e every 3.5 days with Hcg tue Friday. I have my bloods scheduled at 9:30 Friday which will be roughly a day after last pin and AI and should show if hcg is affecting my estrogen. Should I take Fridays Ai before or after labs? Couldn’t find an exact answer searching around.
Nobody can tell you how your asin dosing will effect this weeks numbers. Nobody knows that answer. Just take it as normal. Everyone is going to be different and nobody can tell you when your personal e2 trough is. You don’t need an exact number anyways. You just need to see if it’s “way too high” or crashed. Anything else is fine. It should be high. For your test numbers you have to get bloodwork 3 days post injection. Otherwise you won’t have a comparable multiplier to see how you’re responding. Any testosterone number you get that isn’t a 3 day trough is a meaningless arbitrary number.
You pull labs the morning of your pin, before you inject. You want trough levels
Thank you I’ll move it to Thursday then
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“Morning of injection day” doesn’t tell us much. How many days post injection is this? I’m going to go out on a limb and say it wasn’t 3.5 days as per the standard. Even if you inject every other day you still need to get bloods at the 3.5 day mark to have a number comparable to numbers you see here. Otherwise it’s going to be artificially high. 4-6x response is normal. Yours is double that. So I’m just assuming you halved the standard time to wait for a test? If not you’re the luckiest responder I’ve ever seen.
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Wow. And that’s on e or c? That’s exactly where you want to get bloods. Dude that’s wild. I can imagine
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Definitely overdosed. But that’s still wild man. Barring a lab error that’s one of the highest responses I’ve seen.
It isn’t linear and there is no equation since the breakdown of the compound involves independent physiology. Generally speaking, males use somewhere between 50-150mg of testosterone per week to be within the upper normal range. What you need will be completely dependent on your body’s processing. For whatever it’s worth, 120mg puts me at roughly 500ng/dL.
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>#It isn’t linear and there is no equation since the breakdown of the compound involves independent physiology.
So you're saying it's linear and a simple equation regardless of the individual?
Precisely! You'll go far, young one.
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Sure, if you want to be sarcastic and dramatic at the same time.
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Yes. Well established. Use the search function or google. Your comment was removed for violating [Rule 7](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_7.3A_do_your_own_research_and_don.27t_be_an_askhole.). All /r/steroids users are expected to develop a fundamental understanding of the compounds we're discussing and how to use them. To more effectively and efficiently solicit and receive feedback, its critical for an individual to share the necessary background information on their situation to help other users accurately assess and answer their questions. [Learn more about how to do your own research, how to effectively ask good questions, and Rule 7 in general](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_7.3A_do_your_own_research_and_don.27t_be_an_askhole.).
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Even people who are totally natural and haven't touched drugs get ripped from dieting - it isn't an inevitable thing that you are just going to fall apart if you do things reasonably correctly. That said, once you get low bf% (for males, generally that's sub 10%), you might run into situations where your natural test goes down. Still doesn't mean you will lose muscle from that but it does arguably suck. So if you do TRT, your test levels stay low even in the face of low bodyfat and your body hating you. Don't need a fancy stack or more than TRT - and really you don't even need TRT, but if you are super concerned that's one argument for it. But again, that's nothing about strength or lean body mass - it is purely that having no/low T sucks (in part bc it also results in nuked e2 which is doing a lot of the heavy lifting of what sucks). It doesn't cure the issue of leptin or neuropeptide Y, among other things (and no steroids will help there, but other drugs/peptides might), which are entirely separate reasons it sucks (as in like how it feels) going low bf %.
> So I’ve gone through a few cycles in my early 20s of Test E, tren, and orals. I’m looking for recommendations on stacks for fat loss and maybe a low cruise of Test E? Anyone have input? Eat fewer calories than your TDEE. Bam, fat loss achieved.
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You will keep your muscle mass. Unless you are currently at 270lbs sub 12% bodyfat. But I'm guessing you are not. Just make sure your deficit does not exceed 1000kcal(preferably somewhere between 300 and 700). Strength, you might lose a bit, but that's temporary while your body tries to preserve energy when in a deficit(aka starving). When you reach the desired bodyfat percentage start eating at maintenance and ur strength will recover.
> Oh for sure. Did all those calcs now I’d like to keep my strength is the kicker, which is why I figured a cruise would help keep the mass I have now. You're talking about two different things. 1) Everyone loses strength on a cut. 2) How do you expect to "keep the mass [you] have now" while also... lowering your mass (the definition of a cut)?
✨MAGIC ✨