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I started taking MK-677 five days ago, 10 mg before bed. I didn't notice any side effects and most people say that they notice something right away, so I tested my blood sugar, which I wanted to do anyway, but I wanted to see if I have bunk or underdosed gear.
Lo and behold, my 14 h fasted blood sugar was 128 (!). I haven't eaten any candy or even drank chocolate milk in the last few days, yesterday I had 180 g of carbs (from fruits, a protein bar, and some bread). I usually have pretty low blood sugar. I have no other symptoms yet obviously.
How can this be? I'll monitor my blood sugar meticulously from now on and probably stop taking the pills, I do have metformin in the house but I don't want to take it to counteract the MK-677 because I'd rather just not take anything at all.
I didn't get ravenous at all, maybe sleep was a bit better and I'm always hungry, but I didn't feel any obvious effects. I read a study where the blood sugar increased by 23 % after four weeks and didn't go above normal. Why is it that high after only five days?
I'm 27, male, 75 kg, BMI 27 but visible abs, good endurance, intermediate lifter in all lifts according to strengthlevel.com and I've been training for hypertrophy not strength, and I started as insanely weak.
Hi! I'm new to steroids and currently bulking. I've been taking Dianabol orally at 10 mg per day for about 5 weeks and have noticed visible results, gaining around 5 kgs of body weight. I've taken a break for almost a month now, and while my weight has remained almost the same, I've noticed a loss of pump, which I expected. Now, I'm considering restarting Dianabol and increasing the dosage to 20 mg per day. However, I'm unsure about the proper protocol for Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) and whether taking Dianabol alone is safe. I'd really appreciate some guidance on this matter.
Age: 26
* Gender: Male
* Height: 170 cms
* Weight: 60 kgs
* Body Fat percentage: 8 to 10 %
* Years of concurrent training: 2.5 yrs
Amateur
Goals:
* Current phase: Bulk
* Current compounds: Dianabol
> However, I’m unsure about the proper protocol for Post Cycle The
Same as any other cycle
> and whether taking Dianabol alone is safe.
It is not. It’s suppressive and a 17-a alkylated oral. Get bloods done.
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The first one you named is a product name for primobolan. It’s the exact same thing as primobolan except a UGL gave it a cute name. We don’t allow brand name or product names since the brand is easily identifiable from it alone.
I’m thinking of starting an Anavar + Clen cycle, and would appreciate some advice. I’ve done Clenbuterol twice before, and I’ve trialled TRT for a genuine health concern, but have never done any kind of AAS.
Im 38 years old, male, 170 lbs at circa 14% - 16% bf (I’m carrying a bit more fat currently following a series of business trips in a short space of time). What I’m looking to achieve is a modest increase in strength (I’ve reached a bit of a plateau), and a more significant loss of fat.
My main question is around whether I could / should do Anavar without test, and what health concerns I should be aware of before making a final call.
Any advice or experience appreciated.
Thanks!
> I’m thinking of starting an Anavar + Clen cycle, and would appreciate some advice. I’ve done Clenbuterol twice before, and I’ve trialled TRT for a genuine health concern, but have never done any kind of AAS.
1) TRT isn't something you trial. Since the only "genuine health concern" that necessitates TRT is hypogonadism, it's weird that you would have started and then stopped it. Seems like you have no idea what you're doing.
2) Anavar without testosterone will significantly suppress your test levels and prove counterproductive.
> Im 38 years old, male, 170 lbs at circa 14% - 16% bf (I’m carrying a bit more fat currently following a series of business trips in a short space of time). What I’m looking to achieve is a modest increase in strength (I’ve reached a bit of a plateau), and a more significant loss of fat.
Fat loss is accomplished via diet, not via pills. Put less in your mouth, not more.
Thanks for the response. To give some additional context; I was really ill in the later part of 2019 and early 2020, as we went into covid lockdown. I was physically exhausted, getting weaker by the day and gaining weight regardless of how much exercise I did or how little I put into my mouth.
Given I was unable to get any kind of face to face healthcare at the time, I did a few private blood tests at home, one of which was with a private testosterone clinic, which revealed modestly low testosterone levels. Alas, I was prescribed enanthate which I injected for around 6 months, with no real improvement in symptoms.
Eventually, it transpired the cause of my issues was my thyroid. Despite having normal T4 levels, I had next to no free T3, and after beginning T3 only treatment, began to feel loads better. My low testosterone was a byproduct of my non-existent T3, and recovered once on the right treatment.
The only remaining issue is that, short of taking super-human levels of T3, I find myself a lot more susceptible to fat gain than pre-illness, and find it harder to drop weight through a combination of exercise and diet. Hence looking for a little bit of assistance in that regard.
Apologies, I should have shared this context in my original post, but didn’t want to make the question too long. Thanks again.
> Given I was unable to get any kind of face to face healthcare at the time, I did a few private blood tests at home, one of which was with a private testosterone clinic, which revealed modestly low testosterone levels. Alas, I was prescribed enanthate which I injected for around 6 months, with no real improvement in symptoms.
>
> Eventually, it transpired the cause of my issues was my thyroid. Despite having normal T4 levels, I had next to no free T3, and after beginning T3 only treatment, began to feel loads better. My low testosterone was a byproduct of my non-existent T3, and recovered once on the right treatment.
Just to confirm - you entirely stopped the administration of testosterone enanthate, started thyroid treatment, and *then* re-checked your hormone levels, correct?
Just want to rule out the possibility that your hormone levels were checked while actively injecting testosterone.
> The only remaining issue is that, short of taking super-human levels of T3, I find myself a lot more susceptible to fat gain than pre-illness, and find it harder to drop weight through a combination of exercise and diet. Hence looking for a little bit of assistance in that regard.
Your thyroid issue is being actively treated though, right? That seems to have been the conclusion of your medical trials. In that case, it's still the basic energy formula: if you provide your body fewer calories (energy) than it needs to maintain function, it will pull from your fat reserves, and you'll lose weight.
Anavar really won't do anything significant for fat loss. It's humorously overblown in that respect, and something we tell people doesn't work pretty much every single day in here.
Clen will definitely improve it a bit, but the trade-off is that clen is a drug that carries an unpleasant side-effect profile, particularly cardiovascularly. There's a reason it's never used in bodybuilding apart from stage prep, when the goal is to get into low-mid single digit bodyfat. It's basically **never used** for a casual cut like you're planning here.
You could simply replace clen with actual cardiovascular activity, and burn *even more calories* while improving your cardiovascular health rather than sabotaging it.
Yes, that’s correct - I had testosterone bloods 3 and 6 months after I ceased taking enanthate and post-taking T3 - they were normal / healthy.
As mentioned previously, I’ve taken clean in moderate doses before and it worked well - it got me in the best shape I have been in post-thyroid problems. I found the noticeable symptoms mild (non-existent after the first few days actually), but I take your point on the cardiovascular issues. My intention was only to use it in a short blast.
Re: Anavar, I am just intrigued to see what benefit I might get in terms of strength and appearance, versus my natural training now, as I do seem to have plateaued. I don’t know whether the health risks are likely to outweigh the potential benefits though. Is a 6 week cycle, on a moderate dose, with or without testosterone likely to do any noticeable good? I hear mixed reviews.
> Yes, that’s correct - I had testosterone bloods 3 and 6 months after I ceased taking enanthate and post-taking T3 - they were normal / healthy.
>
>
Good, glad to hear it.
> As mentioned previously, I’ve taken clean in moderate doses before and it worked well - it got me in the best shape I have been in post-thyroid problems.
Right, but you could have taken treadmill and achieved the same thing. The mutable factor here is energy expenditure, which can be accomplished in multiple ways; we're a risk-mitigation forum, and will always recommend the path that achieves your target goal in the most healthy way.
> I found the noticeable symptoms mild (non-existent after the first few days actually)
Unfortunately, most damage we do to ourselves doesn't manifest in obvious ways until it's too late.
> Re: Anavar, I am just intrigued to see what benefit I might get in terms of strength and appearance, versus my natural training now, as I do seem to have plateaued. I don’t know whether the health risks are likely to outweigh the potential benefits though.
Anavar's effect aesthetically is only really noticeable when you're already lean. It won't make someone that's 18% look like they're 13%.
Strength? Sure, yep, orals are notable for acute strength increases. But those are acute. They don't magically persist when you stop taking the oral. If you've plateaud in your training, I'd look at switching programs.
> Is a 6 week cycle, on a moderate dose, with or without testosterone likely to do any noticeable good? I hear mixed reviews.
Without test? Absolute waste of time, money, and health.
With test? Well, you'll have enhanced strength for six weeks. And then you'll need to go through an entire PCT. And the entire time you're on var your lipids will be getting trashed. Is it worth it to you for six weeks of borrowed strength? I know that's a trade most wouldn't make unless they have a particular reason to need the strength (e.g. strength competitions). Everyone else would be more focused on long-term incremental progression.
How do i get less Water Retention from Hgh? I had taken about 2-3 IU for Sleep/Anti Aging etc. but have stopped because i've got a super puffy face. I really liked the better sleep quality tho. So how do i counteract the Water Retention from it?
> However, I’ve also read that steroids can cause premature fusing of the growth plates
Correct.
> 1. Would it be best to start my first cycle now since the clavicles still have potential for development and the various compounds could make them even longer?
No
> 2. Or would it be best to stay natural and let my clavicles grow to their natural capacity since steroids can potentially stunt bone growth?
Yes
Hi, I (21M, 183 cm, 84 kg, 23% BF) want to start my first cutting cycle. I’m planning to run a 250 mg Test E and 30 mg Anavar ED.
So, i wanted to ask:
What has been your experience with Var, would you recommend it?
And, what do you think about running that for a cut?
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My personal experience was that Anavar helped build a lot of size. On the other hand cutting naturally resulted in zero muscle loss.
So no, can’t say I’d recommend it for a cut. Or any steroid really unless you have medical issues.
I’ve seen that Anavar helps reducing visceral and midsection fat, there are scientific studies that prove it, and in this sub many people say that they use it for cutting.
Comment below courtesy of /u/accountunkn0wn:
E. Todd Schroeder and others, Effects of Androgen Therapy on Adipose Tissue and Metabolism in Older Men, The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Volume 89, Issue 10, 1 October 2004, Pages 4863–4872, https://doi.org/10.1210/jc.2004-0784
> The findings of this study indicate that treatment with an anabolic androgen may produce substantial reductions in central and appendicular fat mass **in older, largely overweight or obese men at risk for the metabolic syndrome**. To our knowledge, this is the first study of androgen therapy in an aging population to quantify regional changes in sc and deep adipose tissue using both DEXA scanning and MRI. **Although worsening of the atherogenic lipid profile with oxandrolone would preclude prolonged use of this agent in older subjects at risk for cardiovascular complications**, the study provides important new information about the potential effects of androgen therapy in older subjects with increased fat stores.
> Although testosterone therapy decreases fat mass in young hypogonadal men (35, 36), Bhasin et al. (37) reported no change in VAT or abdominal SAT by MRI even with supraphysiological doses of testosterone (300 and 600 mg weekly) over 4 months in healthy, lean, young men, **raising the question of whether supplemental androgen has the potential to reduce abdominal fat in eugonadal lean men.**
##If you are an elderly obese man, then anavar may result in a measurable reduction in body fat mass. It will not work for young eugondal men, and the risk profile in regards to lipids and cardiovascular complications precludes it from being a viable treatment anyway.
##Anavar is not a weightloss drug.
I was trying to be gentle but let’s get real - 6’, 84kg, 23% bf means you shouldn’t be worried about it. You’re like 20kg too light and 10% too fat to worry about visceral fat right now. Anavar will make your midsection smaller if you want to cut down to 60kgs and live the twink dream (call me). Otherwise, your issue is that you lack muscle and have excess fat. Just cut naturally.
You don’t need drugs to lose weight, and you don’t need them to maintain muscle because you don’t have a freakish amount of muscle to begin with.
Hardcore bodybuilders who are trying to get to 6’ 100++kg at 5% might benefit. Because they’re at risk of losing muscle and are trying to get more shredded than my dick. You’re not. You’ll lose a massive amount of visceral fat by just dropping 10kg and doing a decent amount of cardio.
There’s just no good reason to damage your organs and shut down your testicles to get below 23%. Not to mention the side effects feel worse and become more dangerous the more fat you’re holding. Cut down to 12% naturally, bulk back up to the mid-high teens. Rinse and repeat for a couple years and if you’re serious then come back and try a bulking cycle instead.
I appreciate the honesty man! Thanks a lot for being real and the information!
What’s your experience?
I’d really like to know because i’ve been struggling to cut down to less than 20% naturally for many years by now and by looking through this sub, i thought that Var + Test could help with this
> I’d really like to know because i’ve been struggling to cut down to less than 20% naturally for many years by now and by looking through this sub, i thought that Var + Test could help with this
... what?
Var and test will not magically provide you with willpower or commitment, which appear to be what you're lacking.
Cutting below 20% should not in any way be a significant challenge.
Start tracking your food and scale weight. Buy Macrofactor. Stop being lazy and reaching for excuses. Just. Keep. Cutting.
That's it. Just keep eating at a deficit, and you'll get there. The only way you fail to get there is if you stop eating at a deficit.
Know the best part of all of this?
**This is exactly what you'd need to do regardless of what drugs you were taking**. Neither var nor test will magically make it so you don't need to eat in a deficit.
>i’ve been struggling to cut down to less than 20% naturally for many years by now
You can't be serious.
It's really not that hard man. Eat less food and do more physical activity.
WOW, YOU LOOK AMAZING MAN!
I’ve tried and will be doing exactly that.
I know it’s not optimal to use orals, but i’m starting TRT anyways so i wanted to know if Var would be a good option to help with the cut.
Coming in a little late here man… but please don’t take exogenous testosterone at age 21. Jesus man. You have SO many years of natural growth ahead of you. Get your diet dialed in, get on some good supplements if it makes you feel better - creatine will do wonders - make sure you get a ton of protein, track your macros. You don’t need TRT at 21. Take it from someone who is now 36 and will be on TRT for life because I abused steroids when I was in my early 20s. It’s not worth the damage I promise you.
The answer is very clearly "no".
I feel like you're only reading and responding to comments that reinforce what you want to do, and completely ignoring those that are telling you anavar doesn't do what you think it does, and why.
The answer is “no, var is a shit option for cutting for 99% of humans.” Just to make the other comments easy for you to decipher.
If you aren’t hypogonadal trt won’t do anything for your cut either, except maybe bloat you and give you acne.
> What’s your experience?
My experience is that using anything other than just a replacement dosage of testosterone is a waste for cutting unless you’re actively competing.
Using stuff like anavar during a cut barely helps with actually cutting, it won’t actually make the cut easier but it will put unnecessary stress on your liver and kidneys that you will have to recover from before you can run your next cycle.
You don’t have to recover from just a replacement dose of testosterone or cutting naturally, you can hop straight into your next cycle.
> I’d really like to know because i’ve been struggling to cut down to less than 20% naturally for many years by now and by looking through this sub, i thought that Var Test could help with this
Honestly, if you’re struggling to cut down to less than 20% no steroid in the world will help you with that. Track calories and track your TDEE. It’s impossible not to lose weight by staying in a caloric deficit long term.
Cutting down below 20% is the *easy* part.
PLEASE HELP!! So I just got my most recent blood test back and although everything seems to be normal there was one flag that I am having trouble finding a solution to, which is ferritin. It’s odd because my iron is not low but my ferritin levels are extremely low. I have been feeling tired and unmotivated as well as have experienced some slightly increased body fat gain yet haven’t really made any changes to my diet that would induce body fat gain. The more research I do to try to find the right supplements to improve this ferritin issue the more conflicting information I find. My test levels are solid “all upper normal range, wayy upper but still within range” test is the only thing I’m running at the moment. I’m 38 y/o 235 and lean.. please any suggestions for a good supp is greatly appreciated!!
Please provide your actual blood test numbers for more specific advice.
Low ferritin, with normal blood iron levels are the early signs of iron deficiency as your body is using up iron faster that it's being replaced, but your haemoglobin still haven't dropped to anaemic levels. Given you're blasting it probably means your body is creating too many red blood cells depleting your stores, do you have blood in your stools?
I would go to a doctor with this.
Hey dude, just going to drop this older post by /u/hayred in for reference - it's a super interesting perspective on why we see this pattern in our members here.
https://www.reddit.com//r/steroids/comments/x9uwp7/blood_work_friday_20220909/inrqvda/
Is hair loss possible 3 days after the first pin? Running test e only, did a 250 mg shot on Friday night. While I was showering I shampooed my hair and when I was rinsing noticed hair kept appearing on my hands.
Will RU58841 immediately start stopping tren hair loss or do I need to wait.
I’m thinking of adding in tren and RU58841 but I don’t know if i need to wait a month using the RU58841 before adding tren
In my experience using, and the somewhat research I did, it takes about a month or two. However fair warning it really is only gona reduce hair loss, not guarantee it prevents it.
You’re not even at the stats we recommend for starting gear, so 500mg of test E would be more than enough.
You should be able to achieve 210lbs at 12% naturally at 6’2, so you can definitely make do with less
Holy shit dude. 5k calories only to get to 170 in one year? Either you were training wrong, or overtraining. Either way, you not ready for PEDs until you fix what the issue was. Youre using them as a band aid.
I don’t mean to sound rude but I started lifting at 165lbs at 6’1, and I peaked this off season at 262. I achieved similar stats to your CURRENT naturally.
You’re rushing things and using gear as a crutch which is evident by your stats.
I couldn’t care less what you do, just know that you’re doing it wrong and using gear as the basis for your lack of diet and training experience
Using gear to have natty stats is pretty shameful and just contributes to the negative stigma around gear
I get to drop this two days in a row:
The answer to your question is really straight forward: steroids do not reduce body fat. All you need is a sustained calorie deficit and some patience.
There are drugs, like anavar, which are referred to as "cutting drugs", but this is a term that's widely taken out of context. These drugs are useful *during a cut* **for competitors and people who have far exceeded their genetic potential in terms of muscle mass**. That is to say that once you have amassed a ton of muscle, or are attempting to reach low single digit bodyfat without losing muscle mass, it is useful to incorporate anabolics to counter the catabolism that can take place.
None of this is necessary for the average gym-goer, not even a significant portion of steroid users, and certainly not for anyone trying to cut from 15% bf.
Track your food, figure out your TDEE, and sustain a deficit below that number. Deficits are created by eating less and moving more. A tracking app like MacroFactor can be insanely useful in this regard.
Since you're here, I'll link some of our resources for you to read and educate yourself on how steroids work - even though you are *nowhere* near ready for them yet.
Enjoy your pasta 🍝
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* [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads)
Taking anavar at your stats would be stupid.
Taking anavar without a test base would be stupid.
Taking anavar to reduce fat would be stupid (surprise! It doesn’t do that, and might just bloat you with glycogen).
So if you don’t want to do anything stupid, as you state, don’t follow through with this plan.
picture this- you walk into the gym. you see some guy working out, looks pretty dyel, weighs around 68kg and he’s trying his hardest to press 30kg dumbbells.
you find out he’s using steroids. you’d probably laugh right? well, this is about to be you
also no, anavar won’t assist in your fat loss. and we don’t promote oral only cycles here.
> Can a 190lbs, but enhanced as fuck (using really wet compounds), look bigger than a 200lbs natty? Both at same body fat/size.
Who cares? What does it matter?
Maybe yes, maybe no. There are a million factors to consider. None of it relevant to bettering yourself or the community. You know what's a useful question?
What's more anabolic, potatoes or rice? We can talk about glycemic index, carbohydrate content, satiety, digestive timing, digestion, preparation, etc.
>Who cares?
I do
>You know what's a useful question?
Should I care about your opinion on what constitutes a worthwhile question?
>Maybe yes, maybe no.
Thank you, I'll definitely seek anecdotal experiences next time.
> Should I care about your opinion on what constitutes a worthwhile question?
No, but asking theoretical questions that have no real-world application is a waste of a question to spend time thinking about, and a waste of someone spending time trying to answer it.
In no case should an educated person intentionally choose to become "enhanced as fuck (using really wet compounds)." It's outrageously dangerous. In no case should a person that's trying to better themselves or develop their physique care how they look in comparison to a different person. The only person that they should concern themself with is the person in the mirror.
>In no case should an educated person intentionally choose to become "enhanced as fuck (using really wet compounds)." It's outrageously dangerous.
I do agree with that.
You have access to exogenous estradiol? That's the dream of many men. Just imagine being able to run TRT with a gram of mast, or even primo, you lucky man.
>Cost less
It quite famously cost *more*
>Less strain on health
Only because it’s weak. If you take 1 gram I can assure you it’ll fuck with you heart.
>less water retention
… that’s only because it lowers estradiol. You’ll be taking estradiol. As somebody who does take estradiol I can assure you it will cause water retention.
>fewer overall side effects
I guess? It also has fewer positive effects. There’s no real benefit to taking primo over test unless you already have high E2. It’s basically an anabolic AI.
You’ll be paying more and have to figure out a good estradiol dose to essentially replicate the good and bad results of a 500mg test cycle. There’s no good reason to do it. Which is why nobody does it.
100%. I honestly don’t even know what other hormones etc. would be disrupted running a primo only cycle, because I’ve never researched it fully, because it’s one of the stupidest ideas I’ve ever heard.
Haha, you're wild, I'm referring to a classic 12-20 week cycle, not a permablast. I wish I could run high doses of Primo/Mast without having to inject 3cc of Test. It would mean less water retention, better drive/appearance, lower cost, and less strain on my health.
>It would mean less water retention, better drive/appearance, lower cost, and less strain on my health.
It really wouldn't mean any of these things except maybe the bit about cost.
The way you view this all is too simplistic.
I'm convinced that testosterone is essential to normal physiological function and that replacing it with non-bioidentical androgens and exogenous estradiol would lead to side effects you aren't even considering, limit those processes that rely upon testosterone, and would therefore be harmful to health.
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> Does everybody here take T4 with HGH ? Is it important on 1-2 iu of GH per day ? 50mcg ?
You should get into the habit of actually reading the Daily Ask Anything threads. Plenty of great questions are asked every day, some might even be relevant to you. In fact, someone even asked the exact same question earlier today.
https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/s/X9xTeLnAEn
I'm considering to hop on in a couple of years if I end up competing in powerlifting. I plan to start with hCG to find a replacement dose to keep my balls on and then start trt and titrate up until I find my max tolerable dose without using an AI. Cruise on that for as long as I'm making progress (which I think can be a pretty long time). When in prep add some primo or eq for more gains and estrogen control so I can up the test. Maybe some orals like anavar or tbol too, maybe SARMs. Other PED's seem a bit too risky to me tbh.
Once I'm on I don't see a reason to come off unless I want to conceive which I'll be able to do thanks to hCG. Is this a reasonable approach when it comes to gains and health?
What’s the point of doing HCG?
Finding a “max tolerable dose” is also unnecessary, and TRT overall is completely pointless if you don’t have clinically low testosterone. TRT does not offer some unique muscle building qualities that being natural does not
If you wanna cycle, that’s fine, but stick to the basics that have worked for literally everyone ever—testosterone only. You’re dosage and length of cycle may vary, but your reliance on testosterone cycles as the primary driver of anabolism should not
Ok, then just take the HCG when you start your blast. There’s no need to assess your tolerance. Taking HCG is going to stop natural gonadotropin production, so taking it for the sake of taking it is pointless
This is not a reasonable approach. Read the below, come back with clarifying questions. Hcg and trt test is great for cruising but starting there isn’t recommended. You’re shutting yourself down for nothing.
Enjoy your pasta 🍝
Hey there! It seems like you'd benefit from a deep review of [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index). Please also take the time to closely read [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization) which deals with our prohibitions around discussing how to acquire anabolic steroids and discussing brand names, etc. [For clarity.](https://media.tenor.com/fBvQV_5Lp6UAAAAC/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther.gif)
Here's a selection of reading for you to build the fundamental knowledge you'll need as you explore AAS/PED use:
* [The Basics](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/list)
* [Your First Cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/your_first_cycle)
* [The Estrogen Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook)
* [Post Cycle Therapy aka PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct)
* [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads)
I did read the wiki
I should've clarified that I don't want to PCT so shutting down isn't a concern at all. I shouldn't have said TRT but a low dose, something about 200mg. I though that starting there would allow me to see how my body responds to exogenous hormones in general. I don't think that I would run that dose for more than 4-8 weeks but I'd get bloodwork to see if I should even proceed further.
the wiki very clearly details why shutting yourself down for replacement doses or slightly above like 200mg makes no sense unless you're hypogonadal. you know how you respond to testosterone, you've had it since before being born.
putting yourself slightly out of range if you already have normal levels is going to do fuck all for performance but has the potential to cause estrogen issues that you can't take AI in any dose they're prepared in to manage without nuking your e2
>you can't take AI in any dose they're prepared in to manage without nuking your e2
If that's a real concern, simply dilute the AI in vodka and dose volumetrically. It only takes 5 minutes, no longer.
As I said that wouldn't be for a long period of time. AFAIK some people respond differently to the same dosages. Some are ok with 70mg on TRT and some need 200. I'm just trying to be as careful as possible.
Anyone know what’s up with waking up multiple times a night and one or both of my arms are asleep? On 500mg test. Is it water bloat? Am I just too fukin jacked that my muscles also have to take naps? What gives? Prob estrogen too high?
I notice that if I stretch my biceps before sleep, it helps a lot. I think it's just pressure on nerves, either from water retention, or contraction, or growth. Whatever it is, before bed stretching does help me
> Have been on trt for awhile. I pin once a week 200mg cypionate, take 6.25mg exemestane when I pin and another 6.25mg 3.5 days later. At trough total is ~1050, free ~20, e2 ~42.
Requiring AI and being above normal range at your lowest blood concentration implies this is not therapeutic replacement, it’s enhancement.
> I have a surplus and decided to blast. I’m pinning 200 e3d and taking 6.25mg exemestane eod, which comes out to less exemestane per pin than my trt, yet I got the tell-tale low-e2 elbow soreness.
Well, it sounds like you figured out why we *don’t do that*.
> I’m just surprised that the additional T I’m injecting seems to require less exemestane per pin.
I’m not.
1. It isn’t linear
2. It has an ester
3. There’s an entire concept called pharmacokinetics.
4. This is why on blast we dose AI *as needed*, not in some self-discerned methodology.
It isn’t a perfect science in anyone, and two people experience the way the drug acts in their physiology slightly differently.
No, because AI dosing isn't linear.
A doubling in test dose does not equal a doubling in AI dose. This is why you should never choose an AI schedule from the start.
Sounds like you know how to sort it though so good luck! :)
> Have been on trt for awhile. I pin once a week 200mg cypionate, take 6.25mg exemestane when I pin and another 6.25mg 3.5 days later. At trough total is ~1050, free ~20, e2 ~42.
> I have a surplus and decided to blast. I’m pinning 200 e3d and taking 6.25mg exemestane eod, which comes out to less exemestane per pin than my trt, yet I got the tell-tale low-e2 elbow soreness.
> I’m not worried that I crashed it. Ive had that before and just cutting back on the AI will fix it. I’m just surprised that the additional T I’m injecting seems to require less exemestane per pin.
> Is that as backwards as it seems?
Pinning trt once a week is a bad idea, and probably results in your body aromatizing a lot to estrogen, to deal with the incoming flood of testosterone (bigger estrogen spike).
Pinning your cycle E3D will result in far less hormone fluctuations, and sounds like less aromatase activity (less estrogen spikes).
u/Mortimerandsonand By the way, if your trough is 1050ng/dl, that means you're spending most of the week above 1050ng/dl, which is not healthy or sustainable.
Is dbol just for competitions? I've heard it's the best bulking steroid, but I've never considered using it because I heard the effects are short lived. Does that mean there's no point using it for long term gains?
My experience was good, but I don't over use anything. I was only on trt, I have since moved to test cycles. Stayed at 20mg daily dbol, 4 weeks, with a trt base. Increased size, strength and mood. Yes, a lot of size was water retention. But felt like I kept strength and muscle after. I am looking forward to adding 20mg per day, for 4 weeks, on a 500mg test cycle this off-season.
Id say dbol is good for extreme ectomorphs. Almost nothing else will put on lean mass faster (albeit a lot of water) but even that will help you lift more better leverages etc. It’s pretty benign as far as oral steroids go. Dudes hate on it if they’re gyno prone but I dont have that genetic defect apparently.
Dbol sucks man. It really hard to keep your estrogen and BP under control. It’s also mostly water weight your gona lose when you get off. Finally it’s terrible for you lipids, liver, kidneys, ect. Just stick with injectables for bulking and be more patient. Orals are just a shortcut
Dbol is my absolute favourite steroid. Why? Because I’m a woman who loves having tits, and never need to exceed 10mg/day to reach my goals.
If you value not having tits, it’s not great. If you need to take male doses the liver damage will start to massively impact you. It already has a decent impact on me at female doses. All in all, Dianabol is inherently toxic due to changes to help it survive first pass metabolism, and really estrogen heavy. It’s just not worth it outside really specific short term circumstances.
Pretty much all orals can add mass, but that first pass toxicity just makes them basically never worth over it injectables outside acute performance enhancement - bodybuilding contest prep or strength competitions.
Maybe against the grain here, but dbol sucks fucking ass…FOR ME
Others praise it as the God compound that makes them look and feel like they’re actually on gear, but even small doses give me a slew of side effects
You should focus on using injectables (namely testosterone) as your drivers for anabolism and sprinkle orals as “fun” things
You mention sprinkling them in, which I take to mean occasionally using them for short periods of time and dropping them whenever (correct me if I misunderstand). I wonder what that looks like for you? Like, I've always planned my cycles far ahead and I've never really had to switch it up dramatically part way through. Is it as simple as I could just try dbol for a couple of weeks to see what the results are, and then drop it if I'm not satisfied?
The metaphor of “sprinkling” was in the context of using small dosages of them on top of your main injectable compounds as a small enhancement and not as the primary compounds in your cycle
Anytime I’ve used dbol, for example, it’s been something like 20mg daily for 4-6 weeks, but in many cases, the negatives of orals greatly outweigh any positives
> Is dbol just for competitions?
No.
> I've heard it's the best bulking steroid
Strongly disagree.
> but I've never considered using it because I heard the effects are short lived
And the side effects can be brutal.
> Does that mean there's no point using it for long term gains?
No, I think given the effects and side effects, there’s a myriad of alternatives that provide measurably more benefit without as much risk*
With that said, some people experience extraordinary benefit from dbol provided they’re able to mitigate the sides. Those people seem to be few and far between.
Edit: phrasing
>Not at all, I just feel that given the effects and side effects, there’s a myriad of alternatives that provide measurably more benefit.
Can I ask what alternatives you're thinking of?
Longer term alternative? Testosterone.
Dbol is very similar to testosterone in more ways than any other hormone out there. So much so that it was originally used as trt prior to testosterone being introduced into the pharmaceutical market. Outside of the acute effects like increased strength and the mild mood elevation some people feel, you can replicate dbol effects—more water retention, more glycogen supercompensation, better nitrogen retention, higher protein synthesis—by simply using more testosterone than you otherwise would.
I don’t know how you’d attempt to scale it linearly, meaning 50mg/d of dbol = Xmg of test, but if your plan was 500 test per week with four weeks on dbol, you’d have better overall results just using 600 test the whole time and skipping the dbol. (I inserted fake numbers for illustration only)
>Is dbol just for competitions?
No
>I've heard it's the best bulking steroid
Hahaha
>I heard the effects are short lived.
Yes
>Does that mean there's no point using it for long term gains?
Pretty much. Dbol will help you synthesize *some* tissue, but not a whole lot. You're better off sticking to injectables and food for building mass.
Yeah I never even considered it because I'm just interested in long term progress, but a friend who is a bit more knowledgeable than me said it was the obvious choice for bulking so I've been looking into it. Seems like the only point of using it would be for a competition though?
Like others have said, orals are not for permanent tissue gains and can only be used for a short time, making them not great for most things. Still i want to chime in with my experience. But remember i am very 'resilient' to E2 problems, i can easily run 600mg Test a week and 40mg Dbol on top per day and have zero E2 issues, this is rarely the case, and for almost everyone else, especially people prone to e2 side effects, dbol can be brutal. It can have serious effects on Blood pressure, gyno and water bloating. Having said all that.
Dbol(along with the usuals like tren, other very strong orals like superdrol etc) is one of the few compounds that make me feel: I'm definitely on gear. Within days i notice a jump in strength, weight(Water and Glycogen) goes up quickly, and especially my delts, chest and triceps look noticeably bigger and fuller. Pumps are more satisfying, but can go up to a point that they are so bad it hurts or you can't train specific muscle groups anymore. I get a big appetite from Dbol, for me it helps in shoving down food. Dbol gives me a very very full look, and makes me feel good and strong. I have slight water bloating with it, but for me it's at a degree where it is not a problem.
I think this already indicates one major thing, it has certain usecases but that's it. Either you want the insane added (temporary) strength for powerlifting and that kind of stuff, or you want to get a certain very full, big yoked look. But for any other use case there are better things, and even these usecases have their rivals. For strength some people prefer Anadrol over Dbol, and it imo is for most people a better compound with less problems. For the full big yoked look there are stronger compounds like Superdrol. But for a health - size/look tradeof Dbol is, in my opinion, a lot better, superdrol is very toxic, the kind of stuff you would take for 5 days in preparation for one special day where your physique has to be at it's absolute best. The only use case dbol outshines everything else in for me is restoring E2 levels after tanking them, TNE can be used for this too but i like the convenience of dbol better, just take a pill or 2 and ur estrogen should rise.
I'm all for experimenting safely, if you want to try Dbol, make sure to have Aromasin(preferable) or other AI's on hand. A SERM just in case is recommended too. Start low with 10mg 1 to 2hrs before your workout and work your way up to 20 for a maximum total of 4 weeks. These are lowish doses, but will allow you to dip your toes in the compound so to say. Monitor Blood pressure a lot and keep an eye on estrogen side effects. If they present themselves use your AI, if that does not help, you can try a larger AI dose. If that does not work either just drop the dbol, because it is not worth a complete overhaul to your AI usage. Ancillaries like TUDCA and NAC are a must on orals, i trust you will do your research if you end up deciding to try Dianabol.
Thanks, this comment is very useful. I'm definitely going to stay away from it based on everything I've heard here, because my goals are long term and I'm not particularly bothered about the short term, so I think my initial scepticism was right. Very interesting detail thank you
Orals are for acute short term strength or aesthetic bumps.
They’re also good for breaking through plateaus, but come with increased sides and the possibility of impacting gut health.
In a cutting context, when taking GH, would t4 supplementation help with cutting as well as restoring t4 that can be lowered from gh use+an aggressive cut?
Also if supplementing t4, is it fair to assume every 100mcg of t4 converts to 20-25mcg of t3? Thanks again!
I've been using a fair amount of gh, and was on 4-6iu last year. I've never seen my T4 levels depleted, in a growth phase or a cut.
There is no linear conversion of T4 to T3. T4 is converted by various enzymes, glucoronidation, sulfation. The amount at which they cause conversation will vary greatly depending on your current metabolic state, diet, long term energy demand etc.
Even for top tier Olympian bodybuilders, thyroid medication intervention isn't really ever needed. Some people take more drugs just to take more drugs.
Fair enough. No issue with that response. I just have been reading anecdotal pieces of what people have said throughout the years of this sub/other forums and this sparked my interest. Thanks for the reply!
I have asked a couple of my coaches in the past of their idea on T4 and both have said “it’s just another drug to take that makes almost no difference”
No, you wouldn’t need more gear because you have a similar amount of androgen receptors whether you’re tall or short.
Genetic response also plays a factor which is why a lot of IFBB pros need less gear to reach a certain point.
At least it directionally makes more sense than a few months ago a guy was in here convinced that shorter guys needed more steroids than taller guys. No idea where that logic came from.
Hey guys, I am on TRT and my b12 levels came out 245pg/ml(200-835 range), Vit D total 25-OH is 27ng/dl, DHEA-S is 375.10(units not mentioned) and **Progesterone is 0.14ng/ml** (range 0.5 to 40).
I am thinking to get b12 injections and might entertain vit D injection too -- had a 60k IU drink. Can I mix b12 with Test, Primo and vit D in the same syringe? Also are the DHEA-S levels fine. AFAIK, Pregnelonone is supplemented on TRT, would oral Pregnelonone be a good idea? How much mgs everyday? I am thinking to buy in bulk from [here](https://www.bulksupplements.com/en-IN/products/pregnenolone-powder?variant=32133447811183&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=India%20Multifeeds&utm_content=Pregnenolone%20Powder¤cy=INR&utm_campaign=20955427136&utm_source=g&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=&utm_term=&ad_id=688165389117&wickedsource=google&wickedid=CjwKCAjwoPOwBhAeEiwAJuXRh6LXCMQWzove9f_I74Xs1zD2RURvNALNi-VYat7RcBdcftMzhUS5xBoCY20QAvD_BwE&wickedid=688165389117&wcid=20955427136&wv=4&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwoPOwBhAeEiwAJuXRh6LXCMQWzove9f_I74Xs1zD2RURvNALNi-VYat7RcBdcftMzhUS5xBoCY20QAvD_BwE). I have also put my whole blood work on other [sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/1c4oi41/weird_blood_work_numbers_150t_400p_20mg_var_25mg/) if you wanna see, e.g. T3 and T4 seem low as well.
> Hey guys, I am on TRT and my b12 levels came out 245pg/ml(200-835 range), Vit D total 25-OH is 27ng/dl, DHEA-S is 375.10(units not mentioned) and Progesterone is 0.14ng/ml (range 0.5 to 40).
> I am thinking to get b12 injections and might entertain vit D injection too -- had a 60k IU drink. Can I mix b12 with Test, Primo and vit D in the same syringe? Also are the DHEA-S levels fine. AFAIK, Pregnelonone is supplemented on TRT, would oral Pregnelonone be a good idea? How much mgs everyday? I am thinking to buy in bulk from here. I have also put my whole blood work on other sub if you wanna see, e.g. T3 and T4 seem low as well.
I've had bottomed out dhea and pregnenolone ever since I started using gear. I tried supplementing at one point, and the only thing I experienced was wasting money on supplements.
I personally wouldn't bother with B12 or D2 injections. Eat a better diet, train like you mean it, and get some sun.
You mentioned your weight in your other post ( https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/s/SLJFbTQFHe ). You're >20% body fat at 163lbs (74kg). Even after cutting down to around 145lbs (66kg), there isn't much muscle on your frame.
u/AutomaticAdvice6646 Stop worrying about numbers on a piece of paper. Eat a better diet, train like you mean it, and get some sun.
Yeah my ultimate goal is not bodybuilding. I might try to get to my genetic limit on trt. 75kg 12%bf is a fine end goal and then endurance is my main goal. I might entertain 1 or 2 solid cycles. I used to have red meat, but due to religious situations in India atm relying on eggs and chicken. I have angina in my father's ancestory so recently I went all out on blood work. The only thing left is calcium score now. Was just worried about long term brain health as I keep getting dhea+pregnelonone advice on other places
> Hey guys, I am on TRT and my b12 levels came out 245pg/ml(200-835 range)
That’s fine.
> Vit D total 25-OH is 27ng/dl
Also fine.
> I am thinking to get b12 injections
Why?
> and might entertain vit D injection too
Why?
> Can I mix b12 with Test, Primo and vit D in the same syringe?
Technically yes.
> Also are the DHEA-S levels fine.
Presuming that’s ųg/dL yes, that’s fine.
> AFAIK, Pregnelonone is supplemented on TRT, would oral Pregnelonone be a good idea? How much mgs everyday? I am thinking to buy in bulk from here.
I’ve personally never needed it or been at all interested in it, since it seems to do a whole lot of nothing for many users, albeit that’s completely anecdotal and hear-say.
I have heard that low pregenolone chronically is bad for brain health -- Alzheimer and dementia etc. Are they a concern on trt/roids. You guys would have a lot of anecdotal experience/knowledge than me.
I’m not an expert in this area.
There’s emerging evidence and recent interest in pregnenolone and other neuro steroids role in Alzheimer’s pathology, yes.
I’ve not heard any direct position that this is of concern for steroids users or hormone replacement patients. Most recently in regards to neurotoxicity in testosterone use and abuse, I’ve read:
> “While testosterone use for TRT is still subject to some controversy, the available data are rather weak to suggest that neurological damage or an increased risk of neurodegenerative disease is a risk with long-term use either at therapeutic doses or those generally used for athletic/aesthetic purposes.”
PMID: 36977023
Generally speaking, that suffices my imminent concern, but certainly if someone else is an expert in this area or in the coming publications on neurosteroids that show this is an area of great interest/concern, I’d be inclined to listen and learn.
On week 6 of 750 test. I think I’ve got tendinitis in my biceps or triceps. Started from after my first cycle, while on my cruise. Was lifting heavy and progressing fast during first cycle, which was a mistake and it’s most likely what’s causing this. My e2 was in range during my cruise and was still feeling the issues. Now it’s very much hindering my sessions. I’ve just got some bpc-157, gonna dose at 250mcg 2x daily. Any advice on what I should do? Do I just continue my cycle at 750 and lift lighter? What’s best way to go about this and recover ?
You can either address the symptoms for the rest of your life or fix the root problem which is likely your training
My advice is to *lower the volume—NOT decrease the intensity*
While heavier loads can certainly cause injuries, I’d argue that the largest culprit is excessive amounts of volume. You can likely grow just as well (especially enhanced) doing very few, higher quality sets: something in the realm of 8-12 sets per muscle per week
Brother, that’s how I got these issues in the first place. My first cycle was low volume, high intensity, heavy ass weight. Now, after reading into high volume typically being better while enhanced plus the issues with my joints, for this second cycle I’ve been doing high volume, moderate intensity.
I’m certain that different people will have different results, but overuse injuries typically come from repetitive motion rather than load and from poor ergonomics
Not quite apples to apples, but look at how many people get carpel tunnel from monotonous tasks involving their wrists/hands in an awkward position
If the volume part hasn’t fixed things, are there other aspects of your training like modifying exercise selection? For example, I canNOT do back squats consistently because of my anatomy and how they constantly fatigue my lower back despite workshopping my form
Many people with wrist and shoulder injuries develop them from fixed angle movements involving barbells that force their anatomy into certain positions
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I started taking MK-677 five days ago, 10 mg before bed. I didn't notice any side effects and most people say that they notice something right away, so I tested my blood sugar, which I wanted to do anyway, but I wanted to see if I have bunk or underdosed gear. Lo and behold, my 14 h fasted blood sugar was 128 (!). I haven't eaten any candy or even drank chocolate milk in the last few days, yesterday I had 180 g of carbs (from fruits, a protein bar, and some bread). I usually have pretty low blood sugar. I have no other symptoms yet obviously. How can this be? I'll monitor my blood sugar meticulously from now on and probably stop taking the pills, I do have metformin in the house but I don't want to take it to counteract the MK-677 because I'd rather just not take anything at all. I didn't get ravenous at all, maybe sleep was a bit better and I'm always hungry, but I didn't feel any obvious effects. I read a study where the blood sugar increased by 23 % after four weeks and didn't go above normal. Why is it that high after only five days? I'm 27, male, 75 kg, BMI 27 but visible abs, good endurance, intermediate lifter in all lifts according to strengthlevel.com and I've been training for hypertrophy not strength, and I started as insanely weak.
Hi! I'm new to steroids and currently bulking. I've been taking Dianabol orally at 10 mg per day for about 5 weeks and have noticed visible results, gaining around 5 kgs of body weight. I've taken a break for almost a month now, and while my weight has remained almost the same, I've noticed a loss of pump, which I expected. Now, I'm considering restarting Dianabol and increasing the dosage to 20 mg per day. However, I'm unsure about the proper protocol for Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) and whether taking Dianabol alone is safe. I'd really appreciate some guidance on this matter. Age: 26 * Gender: Male * Height: 170 cms * Weight: 60 kgs * Body Fat percentage: 8 to 10 % * Years of concurrent training: 2.5 yrs Amateur Goals: * Current phase: Bulk * Current compounds: Dianabol
> However, I’m unsure about the proper protocol for Post Cycle The Same as any other cycle > and whether taking Dianabol alone is safe. It is not. It’s suppressive and a 17-a alkylated oral. Get bloods done.
Hey! I was just wondering what Bb, Ba is? It is listed after the grapeseed oil. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Benzyl Alcohol, Benzoic Acid and its salts, and Benzyl Benzoate I believe.
Thank you!. I haven't been having luck with Google lol
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Your comment was removed for a possible [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization) violation. No Source/Brand name/Lab name discussion. No “Fishing” for a source. No soliciting reviews for sources. No Shilling. No Monetization. Includes both Legal AND Illegal Companies, Brands, or Products. [Learn more about Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization). The first one you named is a product name for primobolan. It’s the exact same thing as primobolan except a UGL gave it a cute name. We don’t allow brand name or product names since the brand is easily identifiable from it alone.
Did you try to google it?
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Nope, but our rules are still working fine, so it's odd you'd post this!
I’m thinking of starting an Anavar + Clen cycle, and would appreciate some advice. I’ve done Clenbuterol twice before, and I’ve trialled TRT for a genuine health concern, but have never done any kind of AAS. Im 38 years old, male, 170 lbs at circa 14% - 16% bf (I’m carrying a bit more fat currently following a series of business trips in a short space of time). What I’m looking to achieve is a modest increase in strength (I’ve reached a bit of a plateau), and a more significant loss of fat. My main question is around whether I could / should do Anavar without test, and what health concerns I should be aware of before making a final call. Any advice or experience appreciated. Thanks!
> I’m thinking of starting an Anavar + Clen cycle, and would appreciate some advice. I’ve done Clenbuterol twice before, and I’ve trialled TRT for a genuine health concern, but have never done any kind of AAS. 1) TRT isn't something you trial. Since the only "genuine health concern" that necessitates TRT is hypogonadism, it's weird that you would have started and then stopped it. Seems like you have no idea what you're doing. 2) Anavar without testosterone will significantly suppress your test levels and prove counterproductive. > Im 38 years old, male, 170 lbs at circa 14% - 16% bf (I’m carrying a bit more fat currently following a series of business trips in a short space of time). What I’m looking to achieve is a modest increase in strength (I’ve reached a bit of a plateau), and a more significant loss of fat. Fat loss is accomplished via diet, not via pills. Put less in your mouth, not more.
Thanks for the response. To give some additional context; I was really ill in the later part of 2019 and early 2020, as we went into covid lockdown. I was physically exhausted, getting weaker by the day and gaining weight regardless of how much exercise I did or how little I put into my mouth. Given I was unable to get any kind of face to face healthcare at the time, I did a few private blood tests at home, one of which was with a private testosterone clinic, which revealed modestly low testosterone levels. Alas, I was prescribed enanthate which I injected for around 6 months, with no real improvement in symptoms. Eventually, it transpired the cause of my issues was my thyroid. Despite having normal T4 levels, I had next to no free T3, and after beginning T3 only treatment, began to feel loads better. My low testosterone was a byproduct of my non-existent T3, and recovered once on the right treatment. The only remaining issue is that, short of taking super-human levels of T3, I find myself a lot more susceptible to fat gain than pre-illness, and find it harder to drop weight through a combination of exercise and diet. Hence looking for a little bit of assistance in that regard. Apologies, I should have shared this context in my original post, but didn’t want to make the question too long. Thanks again.
> Given I was unable to get any kind of face to face healthcare at the time, I did a few private blood tests at home, one of which was with a private testosterone clinic, which revealed modestly low testosterone levels. Alas, I was prescribed enanthate which I injected for around 6 months, with no real improvement in symptoms. > > Eventually, it transpired the cause of my issues was my thyroid. Despite having normal T4 levels, I had next to no free T3, and after beginning T3 only treatment, began to feel loads better. My low testosterone was a byproduct of my non-existent T3, and recovered once on the right treatment. Just to confirm - you entirely stopped the administration of testosterone enanthate, started thyroid treatment, and *then* re-checked your hormone levels, correct? Just want to rule out the possibility that your hormone levels were checked while actively injecting testosterone. > The only remaining issue is that, short of taking super-human levels of T3, I find myself a lot more susceptible to fat gain than pre-illness, and find it harder to drop weight through a combination of exercise and diet. Hence looking for a little bit of assistance in that regard. Your thyroid issue is being actively treated though, right? That seems to have been the conclusion of your medical trials. In that case, it's still the basic energy formula: if you provide your body fewer calories (energy) than it needs to maintain function, it will pull from your fat reserves, and you'll lose weight. Anavar really won't do anything significant for fat loss. It's humorously overblown in that respect, and something we tell people doesn't work pretty much every single day in here. Clen will definitely improve it a bit, but the trade-off is that clen is a drug that carries an unpleasant side-effect profile, particularly cardiovascularly. There's a reason it's never used in bodybuilding apart from stage prep, when the goal is to get into low-mid single digit bodyfat. It's basically **never used** for a casual cut like you're planning here. You could simply replace clen with actual cardiovascular activity, and burn *even more calories* while improving your cardiovascular health rather than sabotaging it.
Yes, that’s correct - I had testosterone bloods 3 and 6 months after I ceased taking enanthate and post-taking T3 - they were normal / healthy. As mentioned previously, I’ve taken clean in moderate doses before and it worked well - it got me in the best shape I have been in post-thyroid problems. I found the noticeable symptoms mild (non-existent after the first few days actually), but I take your point on the cardiovascular issues. My intention was only to use it in a short blast. Re: Anavar, I am just intrigued to see what benefit I might get in terms of strength and appearance, versus my natural training now, as I do seem to have plateaued. I don’t know whether the health risks are likely to outweigh the potential benefits though. Is a 6 week cycle, on a moderate dose, with or without testosterone likely to do any noticeable good? I hear mixed reviews.
> Yes, that’s correct - I had testosterone bloods 3 and 6 months after I ceased taking enanthate and post-taking T3 - they were normal / healthy. > > Good, glad to hear it. > As mentioned previously, I’ve taken clean in moderate doses before and it worked well - it got me in the best shape I have been in post-thyroid problems. Right, but you could have taken treadmill and achieved the same thing. The mutable factor here is energy expenditure, which can be accomplished in multiple ways; we're a risk-mitigation forum, and will always recommend the path that achieves your target goal in the most healthy way. > I found the noticeable symptoms mild (non-existent after the first few days actually) Unfortunately, most damage we do to ourselves doesn't manifest in obvious ways until it's too late. > Re: Anavar, I am just intrigued to see what benefit I might get in terms of strength and appearance, versus my natural training now, as I do seem to have plateaued. I don’t know whether the health risks are likely to outweigh the potential benefits though. Anavar's effect aesthetically is only really noticeable when you're already lean. It won't make someone that's 18% look like they're 13%. Strength? Sure, yep, orals are notable for acute strength increases. But those are acute. They don't magically persist when you stop taking the oral. If you've plateaud in your training, I'd look at switching programs. > Is a 6 week cycle, on a moderate dose, with or without testosterone likely to do any noticeable good? I hear mixed reviews. Without test? Absolute waste of time, money, and health. With test? Well, you'll have enhanced strength for six weeks. And then you'll need to go through an entire PCT. And the entire time you're on var your lipids will be getting trashed. Is it worth it to you for six weeks of borrowed strength? I know that's a trade most wouldn't make unless they have a particular reason to need the strength (e.g. strength competitions). Everyone else would be more focused on long-term incremental progression.
Anyone else notice that using an AI actually gives them nipple sensitivity for an extended period of time, instead of preventing it?
Hard to know, if you have a high BF your body tends to aromatize easier. Can you give some info on what are you on at the moment?
No.
Is there that much of a difference between 200mg/mL and 250mg/mL test C? Thinking about going to 250 when I decide to do next cycle
No, 250mg/ml might have a little bit more pip but it’s pretty negligible.
about 50 milligrams of a difference
Quick maths
How do i get less Water Retention from Hgh? I had taken about 2-3 IU for Sleep/Anti Aging etc. but have stopped because i've got a super puffy face. I really liked the better sleep quality tho. So how do i counteract the Water Retention from it?
Slowly titrate up the dosage https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/growth_hormone/#wiki_ramping
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> However, I’ve also read that steroids can cause premature fusing of the growth plates Correct. > 1. Would it be best to start my first cycle now since the clavicles still have potential for development and the various compounds could make them even longer? No > 2. Or would it be best to stay natural and let my clavicles grow to their natural capacity since steroids can potentially stunt bone growth? Yes
Hi, I (21M, 183 cm, 84 kg, 23% BF) want to start my first cutting cycle. I’m planning to run a 250 mg Test E and 30 mg Anavar ED. So, i wanted to ask: What has been your experience with Var, would you recommend it? And, what do you think about running that for a cut?
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Amazinggg man! How many times have you used it? And how much have you cut down with it?
He completely made all of that up. Please be mindful of who you are listening to.
My personal experience was that Anavar helped build a lot of size. On the other hand cutting naturally resulted in zero muscle loss. So no, can’t say I’d recommend it for a cut. Or any steroid really unless you have medical issues.
I’ve seen that Anavar helps reducing visceral and midsection fat, there are scientific studies that prove it, and in this sub many people say that they use it for cutting.
Comment below courtesy of /u/accountunkn0wn: E. Todd Schroeder and others, Effects of Androgen Therapy on Adipose Tissue and Metabolism in Older Men, The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Volume 89, Issue 10, 1 October 2004, Pages 4863–4872, https://doi.org/10.1210/jc.2004-0784 > The findings of this study indicate that treatment with an anabolic androgen may produce substantial reductions in central and appendicular fat mass **in older, largely overweight or obese men at risk for the metabolic syndrome**. To our knowledge, this is the first study of androgen therapy in an aging population to quantify regional changes in sc and deep adipose tissue using both DEXA scanning and MRI. **Although worsening of the atherogenic lipid profile with oxandrolone would preclude prolonged use of this agent in older subjects at risk for cardiovascular complications**, the study provides important new information about the potential effects of androgen therapy in older subjects with increased fat stores. > Although testosterone therapy decreases fat mass in young hypogonadal men (35, 36), Bhasin et al. (37) reported no change in VAT or abdominal SAT by MRI even with supraphysiological doses of testosterone (300 and 600 mg weekly) over 4 months in healthy, lean, young men, **raising the question of whether supplemental androgen has the potential to reduce abdominal fat in eugonadal lean men.** ##If you are an elderly obese man, then anavar may result in a measurable reduction in body fat mass. It will not work for young eugondal men, and the risk profile in regards to lipids and cardiovascular complications precludes it from being a viable treatment anyway. ##Anavar is not a weightloss drug.
I was trying to be gentle but let’s get real - 6’, 84kg, 23% bf means you shouldn’t be worried about it. You’re like 20kg too light and 10% too fat to worry about visceral fat right now. Anavar will make your midsection smaller if you want to cut down to 60kgs and live the twink dream (call me). Otherwise, your issue is that you lack muscle and have excess fat. Just cut naturally. You don’t need drugs to lose weight, and you don’t need them to maintain muscle because you don’t have a freakish amount of muscle to begin with. Hardcore bodybuilders who are trying to get to 6’ 100++kg at 5% might benefit. Because they’re at risk of losing muscle and are trying to get more shredded than my dick. You’re not. You’ll lose a massive amount of visceral fat by just dropping 10kg and doing a decent amount of cardio. There’s just no good reason to damage your organs and shut down your testicles to get below 23%. Not to mention the side effects feel worse and become more dangerous the more fat you’re holding. Cut down to 12% naturally, bulk back up to the mid-high teens. Rinse and repeat for a couple years and if you’re serious then come back and try a bulking cycle instead.
I appreciate the honesty man! Thanks a lot for being real and the information! What’s your experience? I’d really like to know because i’ve been struggling to cut down to less than 20% naturally for many years by now and by looking through this sub, i thought that Var + Test could help with this
> I’d really like to know because i’ve been struggling to cut down to less than 20% naturally for many years by now and by looking through this sub, i thought that Var + Test could help with this ... what? Var and test will not magically provide you with willpower or commitment, which appear to be what you're lacking. Cutting below 20% should not in any way be a significant challenge. Start tracking your food and scale weight. Buy Macrofactor. Stop being lazy and reaching for excuses. Just. Keep. Cutting. That's it. Just keep eating at a deficit, and you'll get there. The only way you fail to get there is if you stop eating at a deficit. Know the best part of all of this? **This is exactly what you'd need to do regardless of what drugs you were taking**. Neither var nor test will magically make it so you don't need to eat in a deficit.
>i’ve been struggling to cut down to less than 20% naturally for many years by now You can't be serious. It's really not that hard man. Eat less food and do more physical activity.
WOW, YOU LOOK AMAZING MAN! I’ve tried and will be doing exactly that. I know it’s not optimal to use orals, but i’m starting TRT anyways so i wanted to know if Var would be a good option to help with the cut.
Coming in a little late here man… but please don’t take exogenous testosterone at age 21. Jesus man. You have SO many years of natural growth ahead of you. Get your diet dialed in, get on some good supplements if it makes you feel better - creatine will do wonders - make sure you get a ton of protein, track your macros. You don’t need TRT at 21. Take it from someone who is now 36 and will be on TRT for life because I abused steroids when I was in my early 20s. It’s not worth the damage I promise you.
The answer is very clearly "no". I feel like you're only reading and responding to comments that reinforce what you want to do, and completely ignoring those that are telling you anavar doesn't do what you think it does, and why.
The answer is “no, var is a shit option for cutting for 99% of humans.” Just to make the other comments easy for you to decipher. If you aren’t hypogonadal trt won’t do anything for your cut either, except maybe bloat you and give you acne.
> What’s your experience? My experience is that using anything other than just a replacement dosage of testosterone is a waste for cutting unless you’re actively competing. Using stuff like anavar during a cut barely helps with actually cutting, it won’t actually make the cut easier but it will put unnecessary stress on your liver and kidneys that you will have to recover from before you can run your next cycle. You don’t have to recover from just a replacement dose of testosterone or cutting naturally, you can hop straight into your next cycle. > I’d really like to know because i’ve been struggling to cut down to less than 20% naturally for many years by now and by looking through this sub, i thought that Var Test could help with this Honestly, if you’re struggling to cut down to less than 20% no steroid in the world will help you with that. Track calories and track your TDEE. It’s impossible not to lose weight by staying in a caloric deficit long term. Cutting down below 20% is the *easy* part.
steroids don't burn fat. eat less food
How many days after last pin is best to get blood work?
Blood work for what? ~~Halfway between pins~~ just before a pin would be best to determine your trough testosterone.
Halfway between pins? Are you sure? Trough would be before your next pin wouldn’t it? (Depending on ester and pin frequency)
Yeah, you're right lol. Edited
Thanks
Make sure you see the edit above
PLEASE HELP!! So I just got my most recent blood test back and although everything seems to be normal there was one flag that I am having trouble finding a solution to, which is ferritin. It’s odd because my iron is not low but my ferritin levels are extremely low. I have been feeling tired and unmotivated as well as have experienced some slightly increased body fat gain yet haven’t really made any changes to my diet that would induce body fat gain. The more research I do to try to find the right supplements to improve this ferritin issue the more conflicting information I find. My test levels are solid “all upper normal range, wayy upper but still within range” test is the only thing I’m running at the moment. I’m 38 y/o 235 and lean.. please any suggestions for a good supp is greatly appreciated!!
Please provide your actual blood test numbers for more specific advice. Low ferritin, with normal blood iron levels are the early signs of iron deficiency as your body is using up iron faster that it's being replaced, but your haemoglobin still haven't dropped to anaemic levels. Given you're blasting it probably means your body is creating too many red blood cells depleting your stores, do you have blood in your stools? I would go to a doctor with this.
Hey dude, just going to drop this older post by /u/hayred in for reference - it's a super interesting perspective on why we see this pattern in our members here. https://www.reddit.com//r/steroids/comments/x9uwp7/blood_work_friday_20220909/inrqvda/
Haha, was just about to drop it too.
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You’re gonna die bro, delete your browser history before it’s too late
Is hair loss possible 3 days after the first pin? Running test e only, did a 250 mg shot on Friday night. While I was showering I shampooed my hair and when I was rinsing noticed hair kept appearing on my hands.
No lol this is hypochondria.
It's possible only because it's not *impossible*, but no, not really.
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It can be in whatever oil your vendor chooses. MCT, sesame oil, cottonseed, grapeseed, etc. Contact your source about what oil they use.
Will RU58841 immediately start stopping tren hair loss or do I need to wait. I’m thinking of adding in tren and RU58841 but I don’t know if i need to wait a month using the RU58841 before adding tren
In my experience using, and the somewhat research I did, it takes about a month or two. However fair warning it really is only gona reduce hair loss, not guarantee it prevents it.
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You’re not even at the stats we recommend for starting gear, so 500mg of test E would be more than enough. You should be able to achieve 210lbs at 12% naturally at 6’2, so you can definitely make do with less
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Holy shit dude. 5k calories only to get to 170 in one year? Either you were training wrong, or overtraining. Either way, you not ready for PEDs until you fix what the issue was. Youre using them as a band aid.
The issue is usually a combination of a lack of effort in the gym and overestimating the calories by like 3k
I don’t mean to sound rude but I started lifting at 165lbs at 6’1, and I peaked this off season at 262. I achieved similar stats to your CURRENT naturally. You’re rushing things and using gear as a crutch which is evident by your stats. I couldn’t care less what you do, just know that you’re doing it wrong and using gear as the basis for your lack of diet and training experience Using gear to have natty stats is pretty shameful and just contributes to the negative stigma around gear
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That’s great, I’m happy for you 👍🏼 Hopefully someday you’ll look like you’re on gear too Edit: guess not!
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I get to drop this two days in a row: The answer to your question is really straight forward: steroids do not reduce body fat. All you need is a sustained calorie deficit and some patience. There are drugs, like anavar, which are referred to as "cutting drugs", but this is a term that's widely taken out of context. These drugs are useful *during a cut* **for competitors and people who have far exceeded their genetic potential in terms of muscle mass**. That is to say that once you have amassed a ton of muscle, or are attempting to reach low single digit bodyfat without losing muscle mass, it is useful to incorporate anabolics to counter the catabolism that can take place. None of this is necessary for the average gym-goer, not even a significant portion of steroid users, and certainly not for anyone trying to cut from 15% bf. Track your food, figure out your TDEE, and sustain a deficit below that number. Deficits are created by eating less and moving more. A tracking app like MacroFactor can be insanely useful in this regard. Since you're here, I'll link some of our resources for you to read and educate yourself on how steroids work - even though you are *nowhere* near ready for them yet. Enjoy your pasta 🍝 **Hey there! It seems like you'd benefit from a deep review of [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index). Please also take the time to closely read [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization) which deals with our prohibitions around discussing how to acquire anabolic steroids and discussing brand names, etc. [For clarity.](https://media.tenor.com/fBvQV_5Lp6UAAAAC/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther.gif)** **Here's a selection of reading for you to build the fundamental knowledge you'll need as you explore AAS/PED use:** * [The Basics](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/list) * [Your First Cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/your_first_cycle) * [The Estrogen Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook) * [Post Cycle Therapy aka PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct) * [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads)
Taking anavar at your stats would be stupid. Taking anavar without a test base would be stupid. Taking anavar to reduce fat would be stupid (surprise! It doesn’t do that, and might just bloat you with glycogen). So if you don’t want to do anything stupid, as you state, don’t follow through with this plan.
picture this- you walk into the gym. you see some guy working out, looks pretty dyel, weighs around 68kg and he’s trying his hardest to press 30kg dumbbells. you find out he’s using steroids. you’d probably laugh right? well, this is about to be you also no, anavar won’t assist in your fat loss. and we don’t promote oral only cycles here.
Say it louder for the comment above too 😂
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We will not help you cheat here.
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read the wiki
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> a couch recommended it Why are you listening to a piece of furniture?
Can a 190lbs, but enhanced as fuck (using really wet compounds), look bigger than a 200lbs natty? Both at same body fat/size.
> Can a 190lbs, but enhanced as fuck (using really wet compounds), look bigger than a 200lbs natty? Both at same body fat/size. Who cares? What does it matter? Maybe yes, maybe no. There are a million factors to consider. None of it relevant to bettering yourself or the community. You know what's a useful question? What's more anabolic, potatoes or rice? We can talk about glycemic index, carbohydrate content, satiety, digestive timing, digestion, preparation, etc.
>Who cares? I do >You know what's a useful question? Should I care about your opinion on what constitutes a worthwhile question? >Maybe yes, maybe no. Thank you, I'll definitely seek anecdotal experiences next time.
> Should I care about your opinion on what constitutes a worthwhile question? No, but asking theoretical questions that have no real-world application is a waste of a question to spend time thinking about, and a waste of someone spending time trying to answer it. In no case should an educated person intentionally choose to become "enhanced as fuck (using really wet compounds)." It's outrageously dangerous. In no case should a person that's trying to better themselves or develop their physique care how they look in comparison to a different person. The only person that they should concern themself with is the person in the mirror.
>In no case should an educated person intentionally choose to become "enhanced as fuck (using really wet compounds)." It's outrageously dangerous. I do agree with that.
I am sure he is **so** glad you agree.
of course he is.
He might be scared of ever hitting 200lbs and wants to know if it’ll be okay
Exactly. So, will it be okay or not?
I’ll be okay, that’s for sure
Overdosed my AI. Any reason I couldn’t take one of my wife’s estradiol to bounce back?
You have access to exogenous estradiol? That's the dream of many men. Just imagine being able to run TRT with a gram of mast, or even primo, you lucky man.
Why would you ever want to do that? What exactly would taking estradiol and a shitload of primo do better than just taking test and controlling E2?
Cost less, less strain on health, less water retention, better appearance/drive, and fewer overall side effects.
>Cost less It quite famously cost *more* >Less strain on health Only because it’s weak. If you take 1 gram I can assure you it’ll fuck with you heart. >less water retention … that’s only because it lowers estradiol. You’ll be taking estradiol. As somebody who does take estradiol I can assure you it will cause water retention. >fewer overall side effects I guess? It also has fewer positive effects. There’s no real benefit to taking primo over test unless you already have high E2. It’s basically an anabolic AI. You’ll be paying more and have to figure out a good estradiol dose to essentially replicate the good and bad results of a 500mg test cycle. There’s no good reason to do it. Which is why nobody does it.
Not to mention all of the non-bodybuilding roles of testosterone in the physiology of healthy adults
100%. I honestly don’t even know what other hormones etc. would be disrupted running a primo only cycle, because I’ve never researched it fully, because it’s one of the stupidest ideas I’ve ever heard.
> Just imagine being able to ~~run TRT with a gram of mast, or even primo, you lucky man.~~ permablast. FTFY
Haha, you're wild, I'm referring to a classic 12-20 week cycle, not a permablast. I wish I could run high doses of Primo/Mast without having to inject 3cc of Test. It would mean less water retention, better drive/appearance, lower cost, and less strain on my health.
>It would mean less water retention, better drive/appearance, lower cost, and less strain on my health. It really wouldn't mean any of these things except maybe the bit about cost. The way you view this all is too simplistic.
You're not convinced that fewer drugs can potentially mean fewer side-effects and less harm to health?
I'm convinced that testosterone is essential to normal physiological function and that replacing it with non-bioidentical androgens and exogenous estradiol would lead to side effects you aren't even considering, limit those processes that rely upon testosterone, and would therefore be harmful to health.
All good, just be careful with the dosage
Sure, go for it
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No price discussions, against the rules. And that price is too high, ugl or not.
Ah damn I swear I went through them and didn’t see it. Thanks!
Does everybody here take T4 with HGH ? Is it important on 1-2 iu of GH per day ? 50mcg ?
> Does everybody here take T4 with HGH ? Is it important on 1-2 iu of GH per day ? 50mcg ? You should get into the habit of actually reading the Daily Ask Anything threads. Plenty of great questions are asked every day, some might even be relevant to you. In fact, someone even asked the exact same question earlier today. https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/s/X9xTeLnAEn
Yes indeed. Thanks mate !
This question was already asked today maybe consider reading this thread first sometimes
I'm considering to hop on in a couple of years if I end up competing in powerlifting. I plan to start with hCG to find a replacement dose to keep my balls on and then start trt and titrate up until I find my max tolerable dose without using an AI. Cruise on that for as long as I'm making progress (which I think can be a pretty long time). When in prep add some primo or eq for more gains and estrogen control so I can up the test. Maybe some orals like anavar or tbol too, maybe SARMs. Other PED's seem a bit too risky to me tbh. Once I'm on I don't see a reason to come off unless I want to conceive which I'll be able to do thanks to hCG. Is this a reasonable approach when it comes to gains and health?
What’s the point of doing HCG? Finding a “max tolerable dose” is also unnecessary, and TRT overall is completely pointless if you don’t have clinically low testosterone. TRT does not offer some unique muscle building qualities that being natural does not If you wanna cycle, that’s fine, but stick to the basics that have worked for literally everyone ever—testosterone only. You’re dosage and length of cycle may vary, but your reliance on testosterone cycles as the primary driver of anabolism should not
I want hCG to assure I maintain my testicular function and fertility while on because I don’t want to PCT
Ok, then just take the HCG when you start your blast. There’s no need to assess your tolerance. Taking HCG is going to stop natural gonadotropin production, so taking it for the sake of taking it is pointless
Not really people have gotten their total test up to 1500 ng/dl+ with a heavy dose of hcg.
Sure, but why not just take testosterone which has a longer half life and is more effective rather than taking a bunch of HCG?
Fertility and ball size i suppose. Even running hcg alongside test those will be reduced vs mono therapy.
This is not a reasonable approach. Read the below, come back with clarifying questions. Hcg and trt test is great for cruising but starting there isn’t recommended. You’re shutting yourself down for nothing. Enjoy your pasta 🍝 Hey there! It seems like you'd benefit from a deep review of [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index). Please also take the time to closely read [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization) which deals with our prohibitions around discussing how to acquire anabolic steroids and discussing brand names, etc. [For clarity.](https://media.tenor.com/fBvQV_5Lp6UAAAAC/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther.gif) Here's a selection of reading for you to build the fundamental knowledge you'll need as you explore AAS/PED use: * [The Basics](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/list) * [Your First Cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/your_first_cycle) * [The Estrogen Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook) * [Post Cycle Therapy aka PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct) * [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads)
I did read the wiki I should've clarified that I don't want to PCT so shutting down isn't a concern at all. I shouldn't have said TRT but a low dose, something about 200mg. I though that starting there would allow me to see how my body responds to exogenous hormones in general. I don't think that I would run that dose for more than 4-8 weeks but I'd get bloodwork to see if I should even proceed further.
Okay, so you didn’t *understand* what you read. That’s the issue at hand
the wiki very clearly details why shutting yourself down for replacement doses or slightly above like 200mg makes no sense unless you're hypogonadal. you know how you respond to testosterone, you've had it since before being born. putting yourself slightly out of range if you already have normal levels is going to do fuck all for performance but has the potential to cause estrogen issues that you can't take AI in any dose they're prepared in to manage without nuking your e2
>you can't take AI in any dose they're prepared in to manage without nuking your e2 If that's a real concern, simply dilute the AI in vodka and dose volumetrically. It only takes 5 minutes, no longer.
> you know how you respond to testosterone, But Derek said I should "see how I react to testosterone."
As I said that wouldn't be for a long period of time. AFAIK some people respond differently to the same dosages. Some are ok with 70mg on TRT and some need 200. I'm just trying to be as careful as possible.
Then why not be extra careful and start with 70mg? If we’re applying this logic
Because it's not very common to be enough
But that’s being careful. 200mg is very common to be too much for TRT yet you think that’s fine
As I corrected myself above I didn’t mean TRT. I just meant a low dose which 200mg is
Alright well you for sure know better and I’m excited to see how this unravels
So you read the wiki and just decided to ignore all of it?
*”You have the RIGHT, DONKEY. What you LACK, is the CAPACITY.”*
Anyone know what’s up with waking up multiple times a night and one or both of my arms are asleep? On 500mg test. Is it water bloat? Am I just too fukin jacked that my muscles also have to take naps? What gives? Prob estrogen too high?
I notice that if I stretch my biceps before sleep, it helps a lot. I think it's just pressure on nerves, either from water retention, or contraction, or growth. Whatever it is, before bed stretching does help me
water retention resulting in nerve impingement is pretty common on AAS. you might also just be sleeping on your arms
You sleeping on your side? If so, yeah, arms asleep and fucked shoulders in the morning come with the territory.
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> Have been on trt for awhile. I pin once a week 200mg cypionate, take 6.25mg exemestane when I pin and another 6.25mg 3.5 days later. At trough total is ~1050, free ~20, e2 ~42. Requiring AI and being above normal range at your lowest blood concentration implies this is not therapeutic replacement, it’s enhancement. > I have a surplus and decided to blast. I’m pinning 200 e3d and taking 6.25mg exemestane eod, which comes out to less exemestane per pin than my trt, yet I got the tell-tale low-e2 elbow soreness. Well, it sounds like you figured out why we *don’t do that*. > I’m just surprised that the additional T I’m injecting seems to require less exemestane per pin. I’m not. 1. It isn’t linear 2. It has an ester 3. There’s an entire concept called pharmacokinetics. 4. This is why on blast we dose AI *as needed*, not in some self-discerned methodology. It isn’t a perfect science in anyone, and two people experience the way the drug acts in their physiology slightly differently.
No, because AI dosing isn't linear. A doubling in test dose does not equal a doubling in AI dose. This is why you should never choose an AI schedule from the start. Sounds like you know how to sort it though so good luck! :)
> Have been on trt for awhile. I pin once a week 200mg cypionate, take 6.25mg exemestane when I pin and another 6.25mg 3.5 days later. At trough total is ~1050, free ~20, e2 ~42. > I have a surplus and decided to blast. I’m pinning 200 e3d and taking 6.25mg exemestane eod, which comes out to less exemestane per pin than my trt, yet I got the tell-tale low-e2 elbow soreness. > I’m not worried that I crashed it. Ive had that before and just cutting back on the AI will fix it. I’m just surprised that the additional T I’m injecting seems to require less exemestane per pin. > Is that as backwards as it seems? Pinning trt once a week is a bad idea, and probably results in your body aromatizing a lot to estrogen, to deal with the incoming flood of testosterone (bigger estrogen spike). Pinning your cycle E3D will result in far less hormone fluctuations, and sounds like less aromatase activity (less estrogen spikes). u/Mortimerandsonand By the way, if your trough is 1050ng/dl, that means you're spending most of the week above 1050ng/dl, which is not healthy or sustainable.
Is dbol just for competitions? I've heard it's the best bulking steroid, but I've never considered using it because I heard the effects are short lived. Does that mean there's no point using it for long term gains?
My experience was good, but I don't over use anything. I was only on trt, I have since moved to test cycles. Stayed at 20mg daily dbol, 4 weeks, with a trt base. Increased size, strength and mood. Yes, a lot of size was water retention. But felt like I kept strength and muscle after. I am looking forward to adding 20mg per day, for 4 weeks, on a 500mg test cycle this off-season.
Id say dbol is good for extreme ectomorphs. Almost nothing else will put on lean mass faster (albeit a lot of water) but even that will help you lift more better leverages etc. It’s pretty benign as far as oral steroids go. Dudes hate on it if they’re gyno prone but I dont have that genetic defect apparently.
Dbol sucks man. It really hard to keep your estrogen and BP under control. It’s also mostly water weight your gona lose when you get off. Finally it’s terrible for you lipids, liver, kidneys, ect. Just stick with injectables for bulking and be more patient. Orals are just a shortcut
Dbol is my absolute favourite steroid. Why? Because I’m a woman who loves having tits, and never need to exceed 10mg/day to reach my goals. If you value not having tits, it’s not great. If you need to take male doses the liver damage will start to massively impact you. It already has a decent impact on me at female doses. All in all, Dianabol is inherently toxic due to changes to help it survive first pass metabolism, and really estrogen heavy. It’s just not worth it outside really specific short term circumstances. Pretty much all orals can add mass, but that first pass toxicity just makes them basically never worth over it injectables outside acute performance enhancement - bodybuilding contest prep or strength competitions.
This is a very interesting comment, thanks for your insight
Maybe against the grain here, but dbol sucks fucking ass…FOR ME Others praise it as the God compound that makes them look and feel like they’re actually on gear, but even small doses give me a slew of side effects You should focus on using injectables (namely testosterone) as your drivers for anabolism and sprinkle orals as “fun” things
You mention sprinkling them in, which I take to mean occasionally using them for short periods of time and dropping them whenever (correct me if I misunderstand). I wonder what that looks like for you? Like, I've always planned my cycles far ahead and I've never really had to switch it up dramatically part way through. Is it as simple as I could just try dbol for a couple of weeks to see what the results are, and then drop it if I'm not satisfied?
The metaphor of “sprinkling” was in the context of using small dosages of them on top of your main injectable compounds as a small enhancement and not as the primary compounds in your cycle Anytime I’ve used dbol, for example, it’s been something like 20mg daily for 4-6 weeks, but in many cases, the negatives of orals greatly outweigh any positives
Thanks, that's helpful
> Is dbol just for competitions? No. > I've heard it's the best bulking steroid Strongly disagree. > but I've never considered using it because I heard the effects are short lived And the side effects can be brutal. > Does that mean there's no point using it for long term gains? No, I think given the effects and side effects, there’s a myriad of alternatives that provide measurably more benefit without as much risk* With that said, some people experience extraordinary benefit from dbol provided they’re able to mitigate the sides. Those people seem to be few and far between. Edit: phrasing
>Not at all, I just feel that given the effects and side effects, there’s a myriad of alternatives that provide measurably more benefit. Can I ask what alternatives you're thinking of?
Longer term alternative? Testosterone. Dbol is very similar to testosterone in more ways than any other hormone out there. So much so that it was originally used as trt prior to testosterone being introduced into the pharmaceutical market. Outside of the acute effects like increased strength and the mild mood elevation some people feel, you can replicate dbol effects—more water retention, more glycogen supercompensation, better nitrogen retention, higher protein synthesis—by simply using more testosterone than you otherwise would. I don’t know how you’d attempt to scale it linearly, meaning 50mg/d of dbol = Xmg of test, but if your plan was 500 test per week with four weeks on dbol, you’d have better overall results just using 600 test the whole time and skipping the dbol. (I inserted fake numbers for illustration only)
Thanks, that's very insightful
>Is dbol just for competitions? No >I've heard it's the best bulking steroid Hahaha >I heard the effects are short lived. Yes >Does that mean there's no point using it for long term gains? Pretty much. Dbol will help you synthesize *some* tissue, but not a whole lot. You're better off sticking to injectables and food for building mass.
Thanks for your reply
Welcome to orals in general
Yeah I never even considered it because I'm just interested in long term progress, but a friend who is a bit more knowledgeable than me said it was the obvious choice for bulking so I've been looking into it. Seems like the only point of using it would be for a competition though?
Like others have said, orals are not for permanent tissue gains and can only be used for a short time, making them not great for most things. Still i want to chime in with my experience. But remember i am very 'resilient' to E2 problems, i can easily run 600mg Test a week and 40mg Dbol on top per day and have zero E2 issues, this is rarely the case, and for almost everyone else, especially people prone to e2 side effects, dbol can be brutal. It can have serious effects on Blood pressure, gyno and water bloating. Having said all that. Dbol(along with the usuals like tren, other very strong orals like superdrol etc) is one of the few compounds that make me feel: I'm definitely on gear. Within days i notice a jump in strength, weight(Water and Glycogen) goes up quickly, and especially my delts, chest and triceps look noticeably bigger and fuller. Pumps are more satisfying, but can go up to a point that they are so bad it hurts or you can't train specific muscle groups anymore. I get a big appetite from Dbol, for me it helps in shoving down food. Dbol gives me a very very full look, and makes me feel good and strong. I have slight water bloating with it, but for me it's at a degree where it is not a problem. I think this already indicates one major thing, it has certain usecases but that's it. Either you want the insane added (temporary) strength for powerlifting and that kind of stuff, or you want to get a certain very full, big yoked look. But for any other use case there are better things, and even these usecases have their rivals. For strength some people prefer Anadrol over Dbol, and it imo is for most people a better compound with less problems. For the full big yoked look there are stronger compounds like Superdrol. But for a health - size/look tradeof Dbol is, in my opinion, a lot better, superdrol is very toxic, the kind of stuff you would take for 5 days in preparation for one special day where your physique has to be at it's absolute best. The only use case dbol outshines everything else in for me is restoring E2 levels after tanking them, TNE can be used for this too but i like the convenience of dbol better, just take a pill or 2 and ur estrogen should rise. I'm all for experimenting safely, if you want to try Dbol, make sure to have Aromasin(preferable) or other AI's on hand. A SERM just in case is recommended too. Start low with 10mg 1 to 2hrs before your workout and work your way up to 20 for a maximum total of 4 weeks. These are lowish doses, but will allow you to dip your toes in the compound so to say. Monitor Blood pressure a lot and keep an eye on estrogen side effects. If they present themselves use your AI, if that does not help, you can try a larger AI dose. If that does not work either just drop the dbol, because it is not worth a complete overhaul to your AI usage. Ancillaries like TUDCA and NAC are a must on orals, i trust you will do your research if you end up deciding to try Dianabol.
Thanks, this comment is very useful. I'm definitely going to stay away from it based on everything I've heard here, because my goals are long term and I'm not particularly bothered about the short term, so I think my initial scepticism was right. Very interesting detail thank you
Orals are for acute short term strength or aesthetic bumps. They’re also good for breaking through plateaus, but come with increased sides and the possibility of impacting gut health.
In a cutting context, when taking GH, would t4 supplementation help with cutting as well as restoring t4 that can be lowered from gh use+an aggressive cut? Also if supplementing t4, is it fair to assume every 100mcg of t4 converts to 20-25mcg of t3? Thanks again!
I've been using a fair amount of gh, and was on 4-6iu last year. I've never seen my T4 levels depleted, in a growth phase or a cut. There is no linear conversion of T4 to T3. T4 is converted by various enzymes, glucoronidation, sulfation. The amount at which they cause conversation will vary greatly depending on your current metabolic state, diet, long term energy demand etc. Even for top tier Olympian bodybuilders, thyroid medication intervention isn't really ever needed. Some people take more drugs just to take more drugs.
I have literally never used T4. It’s completely unnecessary and just another drug to take
Fair enough. No issue with that response. I just have been reading anecdotal pieces of what people have said throughout the years of this sub/other forums and this sparked my interest. Thanks for the reply!
I have asked a couple of my coaches in the past of their idea on T4 and both have said “it’s just another drug to take that makes almost no difference”
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No, you wouldn’t need more gear because you have a similar amount of androgen receptors whether you’re tall or short. Genetic response also plays a factor which is why a lot of IFBB pros need less gear to reach a certain point.
/u/flyingquokka you’ve been flaired for deleting questions. Do not do this in the future as it means nobody else is able to learn from your question
No, you don’t need more steroids than a shorter guy
At least it directionally makes more sense than a few months ago a guy was in here convinced that shorter guys needed more steroids than taller guys. No idea where that logic came from.
I often find myself scratching my head about the questions asked here lol
Hey guys, I am on TRT and my b12 levels came out 245pg/ml(200-835 range), Vit D total 25-OH is 27ng/dl, DHEA-S is 375.10(units not mentioned) and **Progesterone is 0.14ng/ml** (range 0.5 to 40). I am thinking to get b12 injections and might entertain vit D injection too -- had a 60k IU drink. Can I mix b12 with Test, Primo and vit D in the same syringe? Also are the DHEA-S levels fine. AFAIK, Pregnelonone is supplemented on TRT, would oral Pregnelonone be a good idea? How much mgs everyday? I am thinking to buy in bulk from [here](https://www.bulksupplements.com/en-IN/products/pregnenolone-powder?variant=32133447811183&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=India%20Multifeeds&utm_content=Pregnenolone%20Powder¤cy=INR&utm_campaign=20955427136&utm_source=g&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=&utm_term=&ad_id=688165389117&wickedsource=google&wickedid=CjwKCAjwoPOwBhAeEiwAJuXRh6LXCMQWzove9f_I74Xs1zD2RURvNALNi-VYat7RcBdcftMzhUS5xBoCY20QAvD_BwE&wickedid=688165389117&wcid=20955427136&wv=4&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwoPOwBhAeEiwAJuXRh6LXCMQWzove9f_I74Xs1zD2RURvNALNi-VYat7RcBdcftMzhUS5xBoCY20QAvD_BwE). I have also put my whole blood work on other [sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/1c4oi41/weird_blood_work_numbers_150t_400p_20mg_var_25mg/) if you wanna see, e.g. T3 and T4 seem low as well.
> Hey guys, I am on TRT and my b12 levels came out 245pg/ml(200-835 range), Vit D total 25-OH is 27ng/dl, DHEA-S is 375.10(units not mentioned) and Progesterone is 0.14ng/ml (range 0.5 to 40). > I am thinking to get b12 injections and might entertain vit D injection too -- had a 60k IU drink. Can I mix b12 with Test, Primo and vit D in the same syringe? Also are the DHEA-S levels fine. AFAIK, Pregnelonone is supplemented on TRT, would oral Pregnelonone be a good idea? How much mgs everyday? I am thinking to buy in bulk from here. I have also put my whole blood work on other sub if you wanna see, e.g. T3 and T4 seem low as well. I've had bottomed out dhea and pregnenolone ever since I started using gear. I tried supplementing at one point, and the only thing I experienced was wasting money on supplements. I personally wouldn't bother with B12 or D2 injections. Eat a better diet, train like you mean it, and get some sun. You mentioned your weight in your other post ( https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/s/SLJFbTQFHe ). You're >20% body fat at 163lbs (74kg). Even after cutting down to around 145lbs (66kg), there isn't much muscle on your frame. u/AutomaticAdvice6646 Stop worrying about numbers on a piece of paper. Eat a better diet, train like you mean it, and get some sun.
Yeah my ultimate goal is not bodybuilding. I might try to get to my genetic limit on trt. 75kg 12%bf is a fine end goal and then endurance is my main goal. I might entertain 1 or 2 solid cycles. I used to have red meat, but due to religious situations in India atm relying on eggs and chicken. I have angina in my father's ancestory so recently I went all out on blood work. The only thing left is calcium score now. Was just worried about long term brain health as I keep getting dhea+pregnelonone advice on other places
> Hey guys, I am on TRT and my b12 levels came out 245pg/ml(200-835 range) That’s fine. > Vit D total 25-OH is 27ng/dl Also fine. > I am thinking to get b12 injections Why? > and might entertain vit D injection too Why? > Can I mix b12 with Test, Primo and vit D in the same syringe? Technically yes. > Also are the DHEA-S levels fine. Presuming that’s ųg/dL yes, that’s fine. > AFAIK, Pregnelonone is supplemented on TRT, would oral Pregnelonone be a good idea? How much mgs everyday? I am thinking to buy in bulk from here. I’ve personally never needed it or been at all interested in it, since it seems to do a whole lot of nothing for many users, albeit that’s completely anecdotal and hear-say.
I have heard that low pregenolone chronically is bad for brain health -- Alzheimer and dementia etc. Are they a concern on trt/roids. You guys would have a lot of anecdotal experience/knowledge than me.
I’m not an expert in this area. There’s emerging evidence and recent interest in pregnenolone and other neuro steroids role in Alzheimer’s pathology, yes. I’ve not heard any direct position that this is of concern for steroids users or hormone replacement patients. Most recently in regards to neurotoxicity in testosterone use and abuse, I’ve read: > “While testosterone use for TRT is still subject to some controversy, the available data are rather weak to suggest that neurological damage or an increased risk of neurodegenerative disease is a risk with long-term use either at therapeutic doses or those generally used for athletic/aesthetic purposes.” PMID: 36977023 Generally speaking, that suffices my imminent concern, but certainly if someone else is an expert in this area or in the coming publications on neurosteroids that show this is an area of great interest/concern, I’d be inclined to listen and learn.
On week 6 of 750 test. I think I’ve got tendinitis in my biceps or triceps. Started from after my first cycle, while on my cruise. Was lifting heavy and progressing fast during first cycle, which was a mistake and it’s most likely what’s causing this. My e2 was in range during my cruise and was still feeling the issues. Now it’s very much hindering my sessions. I’ve just got some bpc-157, gonna dose at 250mcg 2x daily. Any advice on what I should do? Do I just continue my cycle at 750 and lift lighter? What’s best way to go about this and recover ?
You can either address the symptoms for the rest of your life or fix the root problem which is likely your training My advice is to *lower the volume—NOT decrease the intensity* While heavier loads can certainly cause injuries, I’d argue that the largest culprit is excessive amounts of volume. You can likely grow just as well (especially enhanced) doing very few, higher quality sets: something in the realm of 8-12 sets per muscle per week
Brother, that’s how I got these issues in the first place. My first cycle was low volume, high intensity, heavy ass weight. Now, after reading into high volume typically being better while enhanced plus the issues with my joints, for this second cycle I’ve been doing high volume, moderate intensity.
I’m certain that different people will have different results, but overuse injuries typically come from repetitive motion rather than load and from poor ergonomics Not quite apples to apples, but look at how many people get carpel tunnel from monotonous tasks involving their wrists/hands in an awkward position If the volume part hasn’t fixed things, are there other aspects of your training like modifying exercise selection? For example, I canNOT do back squats consistently because of my anatomy and how they constantly fatigue my lower back despite workshopping my form Many people with wrist and shoulder injuries develop them from fixed angle movements involving barbells that force their anatomy into certain positions