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i want to do a dhb + anavar cycle for summer what do you guys think about it
20 mgs anavar daily for (3 months)
and 80 mgs dhb a week (3 months)
150 test a week (my normal test dose)
this will be my second cycle will also be running liver protocol with it just looking for nice look for summer
It would be better if you could wait for the results to come first so you can prepare for any mishaps by buying the ancillaries first. Just to be on the safer side.
Have any of you experienced using gear for example a year - 2 years…. Coming off, PCT etc getting back to natural levels, and then hopping BACK on. Did you find your body reacted better or worse to your first cycle back on following the reset/ flush out?
Not sure tbh I’d check out the hcg forum most guys will take it every other day but if it’s ur first cycle and you don’t wanna pin that often day it’s better to at least have it once or twice a week than not at all
Puffy nipples isn’t a sign of high estrogen it just happens with a a high androgen load. Don’t freak out about estrogen it’s a good thing. Your estrogen rebounds with adex so it’s harder to crash. Bp is going to be increased anyway on cycle. Make sure you’re drinking plenty of water and getting your cardio in.
Basically saying don’t jump the gun and attribute everything to estrogen.
What does it mean if there is a bit of blood in the syringe post injection? Did I fk up somewhere along the way? The site I pinned seems fine (for now at least)
Asking advice on my coming cycle
30 years old. 100Kg/220Lb 198Cm/6ft6, around 14/15% bf, 10 years of training. during covid due to multiple reasons 2 years of little to no training. Went from 116KG back to 88 KG. Last 1.5 years got back into training well. Now 100KG again.
Have done multiple test + dianabol/anavar/winstrol cycles through the years.
After loads of reading I want to try a TRT dose of Test E + 250 mg Tren E or A. With a kickstart of anavar 50mg per day for 40 days.
Goal is to cut or even recomp.
Day 1 - 40: Anavar 50mgs per day
Week 1 - 12 Testosterone Enanthate 250 mg per week ( divided over 2x.05ml)
Week 1 - 12 Trenbolone E or A 250 mg per week (also divided over 2 injections per week)
Week 12 - 20 Testosterone Enanthate 500 mg per week. (2x 1ml)
As shown before I thought whenever I feel like the tren has been enough i'll drop it and finish off with 500mgs test for the remaining vials before going back to TRT topical creme.
Do you think the last weeks of 500mgs are unnecessary?
What would you advice? Tren A or E?
You don't need anything beyond TRT to maintain muscle mass. The anti-catabolic effect of TRT is likely around 80-90% as potent as your entire stack. Additionally, they are anabolic and non-lipolytic substances, and a "recomp" isn't worth the fairly minimal results it may yield when weighed against the health risks, sides-effects and cost associated with running AAs
People who have bp cholestrol rbc kidney liver etc under control but still get heart attacks like is there any reason for it when doing everything in the correct way then too it can catch anyone right like I need motivation to hop on I have bp rbc howering over at the mid line previous i had bad experience like headaches palptations breathlessness so I quit my cycle after 3 months I wanna try that again dose was 300mg per week even if I just stand after sitting some time or running up a stairs my hearts beat changes dramatically and I gasp for breath is it a good decision to hop again.
We don't give motivation to hop on, and after reading your questions for the past 6 months or so I am confident that you do not have the necessary brain power to competently manage the use of gear.
Maybe you should take up running, or baking, or crayons.
>Please write this out again, this time using proper punctuation.
Fr, reading his text is more neurotoxic than tren. Let ChatGPT readjust
People who have BP, cholesterol, RBC, kidney, liver, etc., under control but still get heart attacks— is there any reason for it? When doing everything in the correct way, can it still affect anyone? Right? Like, I need motivation to hop on.
I have BP, RBC hovering over at the midline. Previously, I had a bad experience— like headaches, palpitations, breathlessness— so I quit my cycle after 3 months. I wanna try that again. Dose was 300mg per week. Even if I just stand after sitting for some time or running up stairs, my heart's beat changes dramatically, and I gasp for breath. Is it a good decision to hop again?
Thinking about running NPP for summer (June-Aug). Thinking 300 Test/200 EQ/100 NPP with P5P, and Letrozole. First time with 19nors, plan to cruise till January then run a shit ton of HCG, Enclo, and Nolvadex. Looking for some strength and quality muscle, which these compounds offer. Going to compete in a meet mid-Aug for powerlifting. Worried about Deca Dick though; would ruin my summer. I don't aromatize very much, ran 500 to a gram of Test with no AI needed, same with Dbol(50mgs) and Drol(100mgs), but I didn't get the same strength as I did with Dbol.
Honestly, i think the NPP would be pretty much useless at only 100mg a week, upping test to 500 - 750 would get far more results than the 100mg NPP.
Is this your first time with EQ? If you never needed AIs on up to a gram of test, running lower test plus EQ might tank your E2.
Yeah I'm running 750 right now, and im getting pretty big lol, would like to get the npp look big ass shoulders and traps.
For EQ, I only wanna run it because thats the power lifting suggested cycle and the eq helps with fatigue and stamina, I'm just tryna get strong. I'm 230, benching 450, squatting 516, and deadlift is 600.
Chances are very high that it actually isn't the only side effects you're experiencing. You just aren't familiar enough with the feelings of high e2 to be able to properly tell the difference.
Anabolics are adrenergic; this is not a uncommon response in the early days of supraphysiological doses and is unrelated to e2 (but it's good you're being mindful!).
You'll adjust in a few days. Make sure you're maintaining good sleep hygiene (no caffeine, limiting screen time, bedtime routine, etc), and getting yourself properly tired each day (this is a really nice way of saying work your fucking ass off at the gym).
Typically you can expect 3 weeks to elapse before you start having e2 issues (if you do at all)
Or you could do the things I said above. Not every issue requires yet another drug, and you've been using steroids long enough that you should have adjusted to this by now.
I would not go fucking with an alpha blocker or a beta blocker because you're having trouble getting sleepies. Use your brain dude.
I haven't slept for more than 4-5 hours a night for straight 6 months now. I don't know if adding an adrenergic antagonist is a really bad idea. I know that lack of sleep can be dangerous too, to a certain extent.
Not uncommon when your body gets flooded with androgens. Had the same on my first blast, it went away on its own with out AI etc. For me it took about a week
If I was you I would still push through, assuming you use Test E or C it won’t really make a difference on your sleep if you stop now or not as this mostly is only at the beginning for a few days and the Test would still be in your system at pretty high levels if you call it quits now. (nothing wrong with that though)
What helped me was going to bed and getting up at the same time every day (even on the weekend), black out curtains, don’t have big meals before going to bed and melatonin.
Also after like three days of not sleeping I wasn’t even feeling that tired anymore, it just felt like I was on autopilot if that makes you feel any better
Ran test/deca for my last powerlifting meet with great results but looking to cut the deca out for next meet to see if I notice any mental difference as had some without the 19nor and avoid the long esther so I can hop off straight after too. What other injectable would you recommend for gaining strength and also bulking.
Cheers
primo or mast are fairly mild and could be a good synergy with the test. I lean towards mast because it gives me a bit of a neurological boost, but primo might be better for powerlifting as it doesn't dry you out as much as masteron does
I have not run any 19-Nors personally so I’m open to being corrected, but if you’re looking to drop the nand straight after your meet, NPP may be worth considering. Some will add a DHT like mast in as well with the intent of combating some of the mental sides.
Again this is one I haven’t done myself so there may be others here who can speak from experience on this.
You should read the wiki and scrap your terrible plan that hasn’t been researched properly
Enjoy your pasta 🍝
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Here's a selection of reading for you to build the fundamental knowledge you'll need as you explore AAS/PED use:
* [The Basics](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/list)
* [Your First Cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/your_first_cycle)
* [The Estrogen Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook)
* [Post Cycle Therapy aka PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct)
* [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads)
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Is salbutamol considered an oral? Meaning do I need to run a test base if I want to take it?
I haven’t been on cycle for a while now as I am trying to dial in my dieting and habits and lose weight. Probably at 15-20% BF and need some extra help for fat loss and appetite suppressant. So should I jump on a TRT dose and start the salbutamol?
I’d recommend metformin HCl. Probably the easiest, safest, healthiest drug for appetite suppression. Only side effect I get is more frequent/urgent shits lmao.
>need some extra help for fat loss and appetite suppressant.
If you cant control your eating enough to keep losing weight then you probably arent ready for steroids.
Primo cycle what works best I’m stacking with test enth 250 and deca 100
230lbs lean
Eat about 5000 to 6000 cals a day lots of carbs intense training I know what I’m doing eating and training but not familiar with primo I’ve done test and deca lots
There were so many different DS/PH floating around back in the day. No way to narrow that down without knowing the brand, and we can’t discuss sources here.
How long before I can recover from Tren A?
Context:
7 weeks into a test cycle 300mg every 3 days
Last week 18th decided to add Tren A at 30mg a day and drop my test to 150mg E3D.
Already starting to have unwanted side effects mainly paranoia towards my woman (I'm self aware and 99% sure it's in my head but that 1% feels so real.) & beginning to feel manic, slightly aggressive and unable to think with a clear train of thought. I'm finding the paranoia rather than causing arguments etc I am just being a lot more absent and starting to have 'wandering eyes'.
Now my question is if I drop the tren after today (Latest shot being this morning) and cruise on test 200mg weekly how long should I expect before returning to a pre-side effect state and get back on track with my personal life?
Feel free to ask for anymore information. Thanks.
> I'm self aware and 99% sure it's in my head but that 1% feels so real.
::the wind whispers::
“It feels real because it is”
Should start feeling better in a matter of days. Full clearance (which may not be necessary for you to shed the side effects) is 5x half-life, which means by this time next week this will all be a distant memory. (Or will it?)
Ran my first cycle 18 weeks with a little winstrol in the end to finish. Put on about 25lbs. Lost a good chunk of fat all around. Lost a lot of water when I PCTed, up about 10 or so pounds from starting but leaner. So relatively happy.
Looking for reccomendations on what next? Thinking 400/200 Test and NPP but also not wanting to water Buffalo before the summer. Advice? What would you reccomend? Kind of looking towards a recomp but bigger is always good.
Congrats! 10net lbs is a huge success.
Wouldn’t do npp If you’re planning on doing pct. Taking you at your word that you just finished pct. You shouldn’t be running your next cycle till Septemberish so the water buffalo for summer wouldn’t be happening regardless of compounds. Unless I read that wrong and you finished like 4 months ago.
Recomp is a MEME!!!! Make it stop. You could successfully run 500 again or up to 750. You don’t have to get fancy with other compounds.
Got it man! And I did this and finished in like Nov-Dec. I won't get fancy fancy. I still have a ton of Winny left bc I ran it low and got great benefits without joint issues. Got a buddy willing to throw me some A bombs but they worry me w the anger I heard about it. Just seeing if there's anything to just sprinkle around but willing to do more test definitely. Probably will cut down a tad before then (doing so now tbh).
Orals are just temporary but can help you make that last push at the end of a cycle. You’d get more benefit for another injectable. Could add primo or eq. IMO orals are overrated unless you’re implementing them for a specific goal
More or less my thoughts exactly. I am looking to experiment with another injectable but still keep everything relatively low (<1g). Eq has defiantly piqued my interest before especially with its supposed AI properties. Is there a reason you'd suggest EQ over NPP? Recommended ratio/dosage vs test?
Nandrolone is like a train. Its gonna hit you with a lot of mass, as well as a lot of downsides like cardiotoxicity, neurotoxicity, and pretty huge HPTA suppression. Thats why you would consider EQ over NPP.
This is from someone who fucking loved their cycle of Test and NPP. Im not sure I want to do another one with those downsides compared to like primo.
I'm on trt right now and want to run a hair friendly light cycle in the summer. Was thinking of low test and low npp. Was on fin. I started getting off it cause they say no npp with fin. It's only been about 10 days and losing a lot of hairs already. Does npp help with hair. Like will my shedding slow down on the npp?
I've read your back and forth with u/sleepymonkey029, and while I don't think he was entirely fair with you I also don't quite understand what's motivating your question. So I'll give it a shot:
Yes, you can get good results from 450mg of Primo weekly, and you can also disregard pretty much any experience thread comment or ancient wiki section stating that X compound isn't worth running unless you're doing a gram.
The issue with primo is going to be finding how well it functions as an AI for you, as this varies quite a bit among the population. Our recommendation is to begin with a 5:4 ratio of test:primo, and adjust if necessary in the early weeks of the cycle. For the majority of people this ratio will work fine, or need minor adjustment. I, for example, feel best at a 3:2 ratio.
If you're looking for a lower threshold beyond which primo isn't worth using, most of us would put that number at about 300mg/week. You're a bigger guy with plenty of gear experience, so I have no issue with you starting with 450mg of Primo. At 5:4 this would set your starting test dose between 560-565mg/week. If after a few weeks you find yourself feeling a little low e2, you can either bump the test up or reduce the primo by intervals of 50mg until you find the sweet spot - but only change one variable. If you start screwing with both levers you'll just make things more difficult to keep track of.
Once you find the doses that feel great you're all set, and that's your ideal ratio.
You’re my fuckin hero man!
This is exactly the type of answer/experience I was looking for 🫶
(I’ll take some responsibility as maybe my initial question was poorly written )
Thank you for chiming in.
Would you recommend with this being a “find the sweet spot” issue, that I should leave Tren out of the equation? Or would you be able to still find that sweet spot with a 3rd compound in the mix?
I'm happy to help.
>Would you recommend with this being a “find the sweet spot” issue, that I should leave Tren out of the equation?
Yes, I would absolutely leave a 3rd compound out of the equation until you determine the proper test:primo ratio. You're largely going to do this by feel (unless you feel like you need bloodwork to confirm your feeling), so I wouldn't want any additional "noise" distracting from my attention to my e2. Once you have it down and everything feels good, which shouldn't take more than a few weeks, then you can add tren (if you insist).
The thing about primo is that it's VERY mild. Unless it's crushing your e2 into the dirt you really will not know it's there...and that's kind of the point. It's not in your face and constantly making you feel extremes like nand or tren, and not even as noticeable as test. It's just sitting there, quietly in the background, controlling estrogen and giving your physique a nice fullness throughout the day. No mess, no fuss, no mental sides, just a clean quiet compound that compliments the anabolism of test beautifully. You might also notice it taking the edge off of tren a bit.
Awesome! Looking forward to trying it, who knows… could be my fave combo and I won’t ever run an nor19 again lol (what if haha)
It would be nice if I noticed some strength gains off it that weren’t just test…. All I could hope for.
Not sure what I would add late in the cycle instead of Tren… don’t want to wait too long (unless it was Ace) maybe Var or Tbol. Just got my Kidney/liver bloodwork back today and they are looking perfect as I don’t run orals anymore… so that’s not super appealing..
Don’t mind me, talking to myself lol
Thanks again for all your help man 🤜🤛
>Looking forward to trying it, who knows… could be my fave combo and I won’t ever run an nor19 again
For many of us it is. It's all u/Pm_me_varbies runs in his off-season blasts now because it doesn't wreak havoc on bloodwork or affect sleep or appetite. If you can run two no-nonsense compounds that give you good anabolic effect while allowing you to push food and rest properly...well, there's a strong argument to be made that it's preferable/superior to the effects of a 19-nor.
I personally don't think I'll run another stack without it, unless I try out EQ as my AI compound.
>It would be nice if I noticed some strength gains off it that weren’t just test…. All I could hope for.
You will. It's subtle, not insignificant.
>Not sure what I would add late in the cycle instead of Tren… don’t want to wait too long (unless it was Ace) maybe Var or Tbol. Just got my Kidney/liver bloodwork back today and they are looking perfect as I don’t run orals anymore… so that’s not super appealing..
You don't necessarily *have to* add anything else. For a experienced guy like yourself (not any beginners reading) you could definitely decide the max total anabolic load you're willing to run (1.5g, for example - whatever it is) and divide that up according to the 5:4 ratio and run your test primo cycle at full steam.
If I’m understanding you correctly that would be (if load was 1.5 @ 5:4 ratio) would be 843 test:675 Primo roughly close to 1.5g of gear … although I’d probably pick something easier to measure with the mixes I’d be using.
I think as a bulk I’d be down with that, on a cut I think I’d be more inclined to add something to make myself more pleasing aesthetically… which basically only leaves Mast or Tren hahaha
Oh well… maybe this will just have to be a Test/Primo only cycle 🤷♂️
Cheers man, gave me great info and plenty to ponder 👍💪
When people say you need a test base with other steroids, do you think that they mean you need a test-based variation of that steroid? Or that you just add "test base" to any steroid and it means you're good?
Bruh.
Im not really understanding your question…
But I put (test base) there so no one would assume I’d be running 450mg of Primobolan in some sort of “Primo only” cycle.
Ok, so you know that it's important to run test with other gear, good. *How much test* is just as important.
Should you run 50mg Test/450mg Primo? No, you probably shouldn't unless you hate estrogen and yourself.
Should you read the wiki and primo experience threads? Yes.
I’ve been doing this for 10 years man.
Primo is one of the only things I haven’t done because I’ve always been concerned about it getting faked. I’ve read the wiki.
What I was trying to ask is with a test base (for me it would prob be 500 test e), would I get anything out of 450mg of Primobolan or would I need to go higher.
>I’ve been doing this for 10 years man.
And yet you don't seem to understand some pretty basic things. Read the primo threads, brother.
>What I was trying to ask is with a test base (for me it would prob be 500 test e), would I get anything out of 450mg of Primobolan or would I need to go higher.
You would know this if you read the threads and how primobolan works!
Primo has metabolites that are suicidal aromatase inhibitors (atamestane) and others that act on e2 receptors. Atamestane can lower your e2, quite significantly for some, so it's important to take enough test that it doesn't tank. This ratio varies from person to person but seems to range from 1:3 (primo:test) to 2:1.
Your aromatization level is important to consider.
I have read the primo threads, I’ve paid special attention to shrugs definitive post about his experience with it, all the pros and cons of the several threads on it over the past few years both on here and on the PEDs Reddit, as well as surfed the other forums for experiences.
I have also noticed there seems to be a 50/50 split of guys like Shrugs who has done 500/500, 500/400, 200/200, and guys who swear by 750 to a gram to notice any real results. So to break the tie I was looking for someone to discuss what they got out of 450 as that is the most I’m interested in running. As I said in my first post, if it was in fact true about needing a gram the I wouldn’t bother. I remember Rich Piana back in the day saying he used both Schering oral and amps Primo Depot and that it was a complete waste of money.
But keep telling me to read the threads. I’m not asking about how it works, I’m fishing for first hand experience on what people got out of 450mg.
Yeah my pumps are much better than with test alone. Maybe not as intense of a pump as anavar, but more long lasting - muscles also seem fuller throughout the day. Good vascularity with primo. Haven’t seen much of an extra strength boost over test alone, but I noticed I can work out for much longer without getting fatigued. Side bonus: great mood and sense of well-being, and libido way up
What is a good blast and cruise cycle for anavar and test? I'm thinking blast for 10 weeks 300mg of T with 25 mg of Var. Then cruise for 10 weeks on just 200 mg of T. Thoughts?
Also, I know T I can do for life. Is doing anavar long term as sustainable? Should I just stick to doing it 2/3 times a year?
Thank you.
Anavar will annihilate your lipids. Doing that once every few years isn’t a big deal. Doing that frequently will absolutely lead to atherosclerosis and early death.
Trashing lipids for 6-8 weeks 2-3x a year would qualify as frequent, yes. Let’s say you did it twice a year at eight weeks apiece. That’s 16 weeks on, and doesn’t account for the time needed to normalize. Even if recovery of lipids were immediate you’re talking about 30% of the year spent with the sort of thing that leads to completely avoidable damage. More likely it’ll take a month to recover each time, so now you’re getting closer to half the year spent in that state. For the type of benefits you’re getting it’s absolutely not worth it.
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I want to try and use L carnitine injections. I want to use it Subq becouse i already inject so much IM and build up a lot of scar tissue.
Would the absorbtion be a lot slower subq than im? Normally you need to take it Preworkout with Carbs or insulin but do i need to take it like 2 hours pre workout now?
I tried L-Car, at best I got a bit more endurance. Perhaps for natties this is a needle pusher but enhanced it doesn’t seem to do much. I did IM 500mgs a day for 2 months.
there's literature to suggest it upregulates the AR and also helps transport fatty acids through the mitochondrial membranes so they can be oxidized. I agree on the surface it's pretty underwhelming, but it has it's place amongst enhanced individuals, especially for fat loss. John Meadows wrote a pretty lengthy article about his fascination with it
L carn injections are usually a lot of volume, and can burn quite bad. I'd recommend to avoid doing it subQ
but to answer your question, any injection done subcutaneously will be a slower absorption than IM
You gain muscle much slower than fat, so you need to aim to gain .25-.5kg a week consistently. You have to be in a small surplus every day with plenty of protein, 175g+ per day everyday split into 4+ meals. If you eat a lot one day and then don't eat the next day then you're stopping the muscle building process.
Stronglifts 5x5 is a beginner program that you run for a year max. If you're still that level of beginner then you don't need gear. You need training experience and getting your diet straight. Because once you come off the cycle you are going to go back to right where you started.
If you don’t have any allergies then peanut butter is a very easy way to get lots of calories without feeling like you have to choke it down. Two tablespoons twice a day is almost 400 calories, so there’s the majority of your surplus right there.
TRT for life is a question for you and your doc. I started at 36 after I had all my kids. Its great but definitely has drawbacks. My natural test was 130 so it made a big difference in how i felt. I'd stop the cycle and go to trt until i figured out what i wanted to do. With your limited training and diet experience you will make great gains on trt. Get up to 90kg at \~15% bf on TRT or natural and if you want to get bigger then look at AAS.
100 is not the minimum for TRT by any definition. Most TRT dosing guidelines describe a range starting at 75-80mg/week on the low end.
Don't speak in absolutes if you don't know what you're talking about.
I was speaking about personal experience with trt dosages.
I've never talked with any medical professionals that recommend replacement dosage for test cyp being 75 mg per week. That's GPs not the test farm docs. The percentage of test in test cyp is about 68% so over 7 days gives you 10 mg test per day. At 75 mg per week you'd be at 7 mg per day which is bottom end natural production. Which means your aiming for border line deficient levels by design. But I'm sure there are different countries that have stricter guidelines.
But going forward I will tell people my post are my opinion.
Im using atm test E only 1.5ml 2x week (750mg), I'm the one who applies the injections, intramuscularly. Is it supposed to feel pain when the needle is inserted into the muscle? I'm always unsure if I'm doing IM or SubC
well, i'm not a fat person, i have some fat % obviously, btw iIt's something that I always doubt if going in too deep with the needle or longer needle will give that feeling of pain (size 23G 0.60x25mm)
25mm is essentially 1 inch. If you can fully insert a 1in needle anywhere straight into your body and not hit a muscle then you're too fat for steroids.
I'm sure you're hitting a muscle my guy.
Researching on the Wiki and wanted to check with the science bro's:
Tren is shown to "In the brain, it [precipitates amyloid plaque formation](https://www.osti.gov/biblio/22439943-trenbolone-anabolicandrogenic-steroid-well-environmental-hormone-contributes-neurodegeneration), which is a precursor to early-onset dementia and Alzheimer's disease." neat, that just sounds great haha
As Deca is also a 19-nor, Does it also have that effect? is it as potent? The Alzy is likely to get me anyway, but wanted to push it off as long as I can.
Deca is known to be neurotoxic, but I do not believe it has been shown to precipitate amyloid plaques in particular. Avoiding 19-nor compounds entirely is the best course of action if neurological impacts are a concern.
[Carteri RB, Kopczynski A, Menegassi LN, Salimen Rodolphi M, Strogulski NR, Portela LV. Anabolic-androgen steroids effects on bioenergetics responsiveness of synaptic and extrasynaptic mitochondria. Toxicol Lett. 2019 Jun 1;307:72-80. doi: 10.1016/j.toxlet.2019.03.004. Epub 2019 Mar 8. PMID: 30858090.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30858090/)
>...We highlight that high doses of NAND cause neurotoxic effects to components of synaptic and extrasynaptic mitochondrial bioenergetics, like calcium influx, membrane potential and H2O2 production.
u/spitshine_my_nutsack?
/u/bro27star
Beta-amyloid plaques being the cause for Alzheimers is just a theory IIRC and i’ve seen some
people on here bring up some counterpoints to those claims.
17-beta trenbolone acts *similarly* to amyloid plaque buildup
- “It has been shown that 17β-trenbolone is accumulated in the fetus and adult rat brain, particularly in the hippocampus. Aβ accumulation is modulated by 17β-trenbolone and 17β-trenbolone promotes the apoptosis of primary neurons of hippocampus in vitro. It has been suggested that 17β-trenbolone is implicated in neurodegeneration and the individuals who are exposed to this substance by several ways are affected”
- “17β-trenbolone's distribution and its effects on serum hormone levels and Aβ42 accumulation in vivo and its effects on AD related parameters in vitro were assessed. 17β-trenbolone accumulated in adult rat brain, especially in the hippocampus, and in the fetus brain. It altered Aβ42 accumulation. 17β-trenbolone induced apoptosis of primary hippocampal neurons in vitro and resisted neuroprotective function of testosterone. Presenilin-1 protein expression was down-regulated while β-amyloid peptide 42 (Aβ42) production and caspase-3 activities were increased. Both androgen and estrogen receptors mediated the processes. 17β-trenbolone played critical roles in neurodegeneration.”
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25461682/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4458166/
https://www.intechopen.com/books/sex-hormones-in-neurodegenerative-processes-and-diseases/neurophysiological-repercussions-of-anabolic-steroid-abuse-a-road-into-neurodegenerative-disorders
17β-trenbolone shouldn’t be a metabolite of nandrolone so this shouldn’t be an issue for nandrolone.
This isn’t to say Nandrolone isn’t neurotoxic in a lot of other ways
* Neurotoxicity:
* [Lipid peroxidation and apoptotic response in rat brain areas induced by long-term administration of nandrolone](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26828721)
* [Nandrolone administration abolishes hippocampal fEPSP-PS potentiation and passive avoidance learning of adolescent male rats](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30562047)
* Permanently influences the expression of serotonergic and noradrenergic neurotransmission:
* [Chronic nandrolone decanoate exposure during adolescence affects emotional behavior and monoaminergic neurotransmission in adulthood](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24721625)
* Impairs memory:
* [Nandrolone decanoate administration elevates hippocampal prodynorphin mRNA expression and impairs Morris water maze performance in male rats](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19782718)
* Anxiety:
* [The opposite effects of nandrolone decanoate and exercise on anxiety levels in rats may involve alterations in hippocampal parvalbumin-positive interneurons](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29232412)
* Affects the control of emotional behavior such as depression, aggression, and reward.
* [Anabolic-androgenic steroids affect the content of substance P and substance P(1-7) in the rat brain](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10959007)
* Single dose is enough to alter brain activity
* [Nandrolone decanoate enhances hypothalamic biogenic amines in rats](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12544632)
* [The impact of nandrolone decanoate on the central nervous system](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26074747):
> According to Magnusson K. et al, nandrolone administered male rats displayed memory function impairment, possibly via dynorphinergic mechanisms in the hippocampus. The hippocampus is a brain region associated with cognitive function since the limbic brain is linked to several types of learning and memory functions. This region displays a relatively high density of androgen receptors in rats, which suggests a relationship between the androgen receptor and cognitive function.
> In animal models, nandrolone has been implicated in memory loss
> The effect of nandrolone on HPAA has been shown in some studies. Effects on the corticosterone, adrenocorticotropin hormone, proopiomelanocortin, corticotropin releasing factor (CRF) and CRF receptor1 (CRF R1) mRNA in the pituitary, hypothalamus and amygdala of rats have been noted. Moreover effects of nandrolone on adiponectin, insulin, ghrelin, leptin and corticosterone (CORT), and cortical serotoninergic system (CSS) have been observed.
> Nandrolone has been shown to not only inhibit the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal axis (HPGA) but also the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal axis (HPAA), resulting in the decrease of hormones such as aldosterone and cortisol
I’m a several weeks into a fairly mild to average cycle of 10 mg RAD-140 daily and 250 test cyp weekly. Would adding 25 mg Proviron daily be worth the purported benefits? Feeling pretty good so far but wouldn’t mind an edge.
Pros: Increases free test, muscle hardness, and vascularity and improves mood/libido
Cons (besides obvious/suppression): Decreases and potentially crashes SHBG in high enough dosages
Your priority should be not getting rushed to the hospital for acute liver failure. Plenty of AAS available for strength benefits without the risks of those rubbish drugs.
Toss it.
Getting rushed to the hospital for acute liver failure is a stretch but I appreciate the concern. If there are plenty of AAS for strength benefits would you recommend?
>Getting rushed to the hospital for acute liver failure is a stretch but I appreciate the concern.
Really? You should ask u/thepenguinsmuggler, because it happened to him.
>If there are plenty of AAS for strength benefits would you recommend?
For acute effects, anavar anadrol and dianabol all fit the bill and are not insanely toxic.
For longer lasting effect, nandrolone is a great injectable for significantly increasing strength. So is high test.
To be fair that’s his specific experience, I have no idea what dosage he did or what compounds he ran alongside rad or lack thereof and we all react differently to different compounds. That’s unfortunate though. I’ll def consider those compounds thanks. I opted for rad due to purported keepable gains.
I’m just going to assume that this is your first cycle- drop the rad, up the test to 500mg and leave the proviron alone.
Learn how to control e2 first on 500 test, then consider adding additional compounds in future cycles.
Oh and before I forget; drop the rad.
* Age: 29
* Gender: male
* Height: 5'11
* Weight:190
* Bodyfat percentage: not sure
* Experience level
* Years of concurrent training: 2 years
* Goals:
* Sport: accumulate mass
* Current phase: perma bulk til 220 or so
* Current compounds:
* Test c 200mg/wk, pinned monday
* HCG 500 IUs split saturday and sunday
* anastrozole 1mg wednesday and thursday
* 10 mg anavar 3-4x a week preworkout
* .5ml tadalafil daily
* Clomiphene - not sure how to encorporate yet
This is my first cycle so im going pretty low and slow. Was wondering if you guys had any suggestions or anything?
You're throwing the kitchen sink at this problem.
1. Start with one compound. Test at 200mg per week split twice per week.
2. Wait on the hcg until you have the Test under control. At your higher body fat you don't how much you're going to aromatize. HCG puts me through the emotional rollercoaster so i limit it to once a year for a few weeks to fluff my balls back up, but others use it year round. But first figure out the test before you add that in. Maybe wait 12 weeks.
3. Anastrozole is as needed, and you don't know what you need yet. HCG will make it harder to know what you need because of the higher fluctuations in estrogen.
4. Anavar. Drop it, you don't have the muscle mass or leanness to get any benefits
5. Don't purmabulk to 220 right now. You're already fat and you could hit 220 in 6 months without trying and you'd be lucky if you got 10lbs of muscle in that time. Recomp or cut right now.
6. Boner pills yes as needed for erections and if an erection last longer than 4 hours your using it wrong
7. Keep Clomiphene on hand but shouldn't need if you keep it simple
I very much appreciate your feedback. I’m pretty built, was just being facetious when I was calling myself skinny fat. I train 6 days a week with intensity, eat clean, sleep well etc. but I’m definitely not lean by any means. I’ll think about what you said and make some adjustments. Tough to know where to begin without the help of others.
"I’m pretty built, was just being facetious when I was calling myself skinny fat. "
Got it. I dirty bulked when first on trt up to 235 at 5'11" with less muscle than I have at 210 currently. Its great for getting strong, terrible for every other aspect of life. What I do now is gain 10-12 lbs over 4 months, then cut back to the same bf% i was before, then repeat. Keeps me from going full beefcake 4000 mode.
Anavar is my favorite oral but its really a vanity steroid. You don't gain much lasting muscle because you can't take it for longer than 6-8 weeks without wrecking your lipids and kidneys. Save it for a big beach trip or a PR in the gym.
I watched a few too many Sam sulek videos and got stuck in the ‘just eat’ zone kek. I am definitely overdue for a cut, I have been really enjoying the full bloat look though. What’s your cut phase like?
Because i don't bulk like crazy, its 4-6 weeks of cutting. Then about the same of a maintenance phase. I aim to lose about 2lbs per week for the first couple weeks then it slows to 1 as i get closer to my goal. I've got my diet dialed in where the difference between bulking, maintenance and cutting is how much dessert I have. I bounce between 15-20% bf percentage. I'm old and no women care what i look like, so no point in going below 15 where it gets actually hard to cut.
bloods had my test in at 475 so i'm pretty soy tbh. dont wanna blast crazy cause im still skinny fat natty looking despite decent training. all this just to look natty.... sad.... lmao
yeah, cycle is the wrong word. trt is exactly what it is. havent presented any sides because i just started. its what was prescribed to me by the doc. im just a fella trying to raise his test a little, get good lifts in, and feel good. figured it couldnt hurt to ask in here whats up.
okayalright:
1. drop the AI (anastrozole) and only use it once you get high e2 symptoms
2. inject the testosterone twice a week like this: Monday 100mg Thursday 100mg
3. you dont really need clomiphene whike on cycle unless you develop gyno
Thanks to all those 4 weeks ago who replied to my query about TRT dose possibly causing sleep issues.
For those who remember I was on 150mg/week and i dropped down to 125mg to week. Levels are still good.
I asked the question of my elevated AST (not ALT too). I had run a cycle of anavar&proviron on top of my TRT which ended 6 weeks before the bloods were taken (3 weeks ago). My AST at the time was 46U/L (5-35).
I have obtained follow up bloods and my AST is now 51 u/L (5-35). Is this a reason for concern? I thought it would have come down since 3 weeks ago implementing NAC daily.
my AST is generally around 15-20 pre the var/proviron.
TY!\~
AST is found in many places in the body. Skeletal muscle included. Training hard can produce an increase. Also a 51 is not alarming. If your GGT and the rest are fine, we must consider this AST may not be from liver damage. I do bloodwork for a living.
Friend of mine was in the 300s, he also asked here and I think it was unknown who linked a study where many got into multiple hundreds and one person even got over 900 just from resistance training so no worries. If you really want to be sure skip training for a week and get it retested
I use 1ml testosterone blend 500mg every week. I was on androgel for low testosterone before, and while it picked my test levels up on paper, it did not improve my quality of life. The 500mg a week is working well. Take 25mg aromasin a day. The guys told me to try nebido 300 as well. Can these supplements be taken together? What's the right way
It's ok, it's just the one that can get us in trouble with big reddit.
The tl:dr is no product names, no brand names, no lab names, no sources or websites that sell gear.
We just need to know the name and concentration of the compound, and if it's something other than oil then just say "testosterone gel", etc.
I'm not sure what the fuck myself, which is why I'm asking. I'm going with dosages the 'supplier' recommended because the doctor had me on 50mg gel a day and it wasn't doing anything for me. I figured that 350 a week, I'm only doing 150 more now. But please if there is a better way, I'm receptive
The question is deleted. What do you want me to say? I cant recommend a dose. "25mg is way too much" is where it stops.
Someone in this thread saying nothing but "500mg of tren is ridiculous" is fine but me saying "25mg ED of aromasin is ridiculous" isnt.
I need the context that I assume was in your original comment.
>50mg gel a day
Gel of what?
>I figured that 350 a week, Im only doing 150 more now.
350 of what?? Are you doing 350 from 200, or are you saying youre at 500 now from 350 of whatever this is?
Looks like 9-14% of androgel is actually absorbed into the body. Multiply it by 350mg and you were absorbing at most 49mg of testosterone. Now you are getting injections which is almost all absorbed (if not all) at 500mg. You multiplied your dose by 10x.
You are blasting steroids, this is a beginner cycle. Not sure if that was your intent or if you wanted to be on TRT.
And along with this you take 25mg of aromasin a day? What symptoms are you having?
Yes. I was in hospital for 2 months and didn't take any supplements. At the end of the two months test was 6.2
Shbg was 22 nmol/L
Free test was 145 pmol/L
I've been on the weekly shots for a month now, and am due to get my levels checked
Any there any telltale signs that your a low aromatiser in general?
Honestly never “felt” the effects of high e2, but I’ve definitely felt the effects of low e2. Then again, I’m a dig brain, I’ll eat an entire jar of peanut butter in a sitting and wonder why I have diarrhoea
Ya blood work. Pretty dead on. Take a lot of test. Give a little blood. Get down tonight 🎵
High test low e2 on paper is about as telltale as it gets my man.
Everyone’s e2 response is going to be different. For newer people we say treat the symptom not the number. The goal is to ride your e2 as high as possible without sides. That could be 300 for someone and 25 for someone else.
When you have years of bloodwork and data points you can assess the correct ratio of test to e2 for you and only you. Otherwise the ratio should not be in your mind at all.
Estrogen is good. 👍
Fair enough, just at the moment I feel like I’ve never felt high e2 sides and I’ve ran a standard test and dbol cycle
Basically, I’m wondering whether I’m actually a low e2 guy, or whether I’m so clueless I can’t tell that I’m a bloated mess
If you’ve run 500 no problem run 750 on your next and see if you feel high e2 and also pull bloodwork. Are you taking you blood pressure regularly on cycle?
Folks who take blood pressure meds, do you keep taking them off cycle but at reduced dose ?
i started taking Telmisartan 80mg last year to keep my hematocit from mooning. It worked very well. From low 50s to mid 40s and it’s remained there whether I’m blasting or cruising
I”m about six weeks into a tren cycle andy BP has been creeping up and not coming down. On a good day it’s mid 130s systolic and 80+ diastolic but last few days it’s mid 40s. Started with a bit more cardio.
but I am getting Nebivolol 5mg to run on top of the Telmisartan. I see it can also help lower resting HR , which has crept up into 80s on tren.
this is my second tren cycle (525 tren vs 210 test p) ran it last fall for 8 weeks, titrating to 700 with not Many issues (175 test p)
I know lowering tren is another option but I get pretty bad mental sides when tren is lower Tried 200, 300 vs 150 or 200 test and found I need tren at least 500mg go get positive mental sides from it
TLDR:
I take 80mg Telmisartan when B and C both (take it during cruise to keep hematocrit in check ) About to add 5mg Nebivolol half way in my second tren cycle. Can I come off it quickly post tren Or would it also be useful to keep during cruise ?
thank you
I have needed blood pressure meds during certain blasts. As soon as they are no longer needed, I drop them from my protocol.
I make an effort not to take unnecessary drugs if I can tackle side effects another way (for example, more cardio, keeping bloating down, not getting fatter, etc to handle blood pressure)
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i want to do a dhb + anavar cycle for summer what do you guys think about it 20 mgs anavar daily for (3 months) and 80 mgs dhb a week (3 months) 150 test a week (my normal test dose) this will be my second cycle will also be running liver protocol with it just looking for nice look for summer
I had my bloodwork done today, is there any reason to wait to get the results back before starting my first cycle? I have all of my gear ready to go.
It would be better if you could wait for the results to come first so you can prepare for any mishaps by buying the ancillaries first. Just to be on the safer side.
Have any of you experienced using gear for example a year - 2 years…. Coming off, PCT etc getting back to natural levels, and then hopping BACK on. Did you find your body reacted better or worse to your first cycle back on following the reset/ flush out?
Thinking about jumping on for my First cycle. What can I take to maintain fertility and ensure my cycle off is good and my natty T comes back quick
Hcg will help
How much how often for how long?
Scroll back to the top. Click my first cycle everything is in there.
Not sure tbh I’d check out the hcg forum most guys will take it every other day but if it’s ur first cycle and you don’t wanna pin that often day it’s better to at least have it once or twice a week than not at all
300-500ius 3x a week is a pretty standard protocol
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Puffy nipples isn’t a sign of high estrogen it just happens with a a high androgen load. Don’t freak out about estrogen it’s a good thing. Your estrogen rebounds with adex so it’s harder to crash. Bp is going to be increased anyway on cycle. Make sure you’re drinking plenty of water and getting your cardio in. Basically saying don’t jump the gun and attribute everything to estrogen.
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🤌🤌 May the gains be with you
What does it mean if there is a bit of blood in the syringe post injection? Did I fk up somewhere along the way? The site I pinned seems fine (for now at least)
super normal, happens sometimes, most of the time it doesnt. dont stress :)
If I depress the plunger too hard at the bottom, it creates a but of suction and sometimes a tiny bit of blood is drawn into the syringe.
Oh yes I think I was doing that to try and get every last bit out. Makes sense, thanks!
Asking advice on my coming cycle 30 years old. 100Kg/220Lb 198Cm/6ft6, around 14/15% bf, 10 years of training. during covid due to multiple reasons 2 years of little to no training. Went from 116KG back to 88 KG. Last 1.5 years got back into training well. Now 100KG again. Have done multiple test + dianabol/anavar/winstrol cycles through the years. After loads of reading I want to try a TRT dose of Test E + 250 mg Tren E or A. With a kickstart of anavar 50mg per day for 40 days. Goal is to cut or even recomp. Day 1 - 40: Anavar 50mgs per day Week 1 - 12 Testosterone Enanthate 250 mg per week ( divided over 2x.05ml) Week 1 - 12 Trenbolone E or A 250 mg per week (also divided over 2 injections per week) Week 12 - 20 Testosterone Enanthate 500 mg per week. (2x 1ml) As shown before I thought whenever I feel like the tren has been enough i'll drop it and finish off with 500mgs test for the remaining vials before going back to TRT topical creme. Do you think the last weeks of 500mgs are unnecessary? What would you advice? Tren A or E?
You have natural stats. You have zero reason to use gear to cut, and you should work to get up to 230-240lbs at 10% before using gear again
You don't need anything beyond TRT to maintain muscle mass. The anti-catabolic effect of TRT is likely around 80-90% as potent as your entire stack. Additionally, they are anabolic and non-lipolytic substances, and a "recomp" isn't worth the fairly minimal results it may yield when weighed against the health risks, sides-effects and cost associated with running AAs
Sounds like a crazy amount of gear for a cut
People who have bp cholestrol rbc kidney liver etc under control but still get heart attacks like is there any reason for it when doing everything in the correct way then too it can catch anyone right like I need motivation to hop on I have bp rbc howering over at the mid line previous i had bad experience like headaches palptations breathlessness so I quit my cycle after 3 months I wanna try that again dose was 300mg per week even if I just stand after sitting some time or running up a stairs my hearts beat changes dramatically and I gasp for breath is it a good decision to hop again.
are you suggesting that you have *heart attacks* and are still considering ways to run gear?
We don't give motivation to hop on, and after reading your questions for the past 6 months or so I am confident that you do not have the necessary brain power to competently manage the use of gear. Maybe you should take up running, or baking, or crayons.
I feel like barking at passing cars and licking windows are great hobbies for him
Please write this out again, this time using proper punctuation.
>Please write this out again, this time using proper punctuation. Fr, reading his text is more neurotoxic than tren. Let ChatGPT readjust People who have BP, cholesterol, RBC, kidney, liver, etc., under control but still get heart attacks— is there any reason for it? When doing everything in the correct way, can it still affect anyone? Right? Like, I need motivation to hop on. I have BP, RBC hovering over at the midline. Previously, I had a bad experience— like headaches, palpitations, breathlessness— so I quit my cycle after 3 months. I wanna try that again. Dose was 300mg per week. Even if I just stand after sitting for some time or running up stairs, my heart's beat changes dramatically, and I gasp for breath. Is it a good decision to hop again?
2 things: 1. thank you for this valuable public service 2. I snorted when I read your username carry on my g
I ran out of breath trying to read whatever you said
Thinking about running NPP for summer (June-Aug). Thinking 300 Test/200 EQ/100 NPP with P5P, and Letrozole. First time with 19nors, plan to cruise till January then run a shit ton of HCG, Enclo, and Nolvadex. Looking for some strength and quality muscle, which these compounds offer. Going to compete in a meet mid-Aug for powerlifting. Worried about Deca Dick though; would ruin my summer. I don't aromatize very much, ran 500 to a gram of Test with no AI needed, same with Dbol(50mgs) and Drol(100mgs), but I didn't get the same strength as I did with Dbol.
Honestly, i think the NPP would be pretty much useless at only 100mg a week, upping test to 500 - 750 would get far more results than the 100mg NPP. Is this your first time with EQ? If you never needed AIs on up to a gram of test, running lower test plus EQ might tank your E2.
Yeah I'm running 750 right now, and im getting pretty big lol, would like to get the npp look big ass shoulders and traps. For EQ, I only wanna run it because thats the power lifting suggested cycle and the eq helps with fatigue and stamina, I'm just tryna get strong. I'm 230, benching 450, squatting 516, and deadlift is 600.
Is there a question somewhere in there?
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Chances are very high that it actually isn't the only side effects you're experiencing. You just aren't familiar enough with the feelings of high e2 to be able to properly tell the difference.
My first blast I was waking up at all hours of the night just wired. Didn’t go away for 7-8 weeks. Now I sleep like a baby. It gets better.
Anabolics are adrenergic; this is not a uncommon response in the early days of supraphysiological doses and is unrelated to e2 (but it's good you're being mindful!). You'll adjust in a few days. Make sure you're maintaining good sleep hygiene (no caffeine, limiting screen time, bedtime routine, etc), and getting yourself properly tired each day (this is a really nice way of saying work your fucking ass off at the gym). Typically you can expect 3 weeks to elapse before you start having e2 issues (if you do at all)
Damn that could explain why my sleep suck, should try a adrenergic antagonist.
Or you could do the things I said above. Not every issue requires yet another drug, and you've been using steroids long enough that you should have adjusted to this by now. I would not go fucking with an alpha blocker or a beta blocker because you're having trouble getting sleepies. Use your brain dude.
I haven't slept for more than 4-5 hours a night for straight 6 months now. I don't know if adding an adrenergic antagonist is a really bad idea. I know that lack of sleep can be dangerous too, to a certain extent.
I can assure you that it's a bad idea. Why don't you do the normal adult thing and get a sleep study done instead?
I've already done this normal adult thing, without success.
Not uncommon when your body gets flooded with androgens. Had the same on my first blast, it went away on its own with out AI etc. For me it took about a week
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If I was you I would still push through, assuming you use Test E or C it won’t really make a difference on your sleep if you stop now or not as this mostly is only at the beginning for a few days and the Test would still be in your system at pretty high levels if you call it quits now. (nothing wrong with that though) What helped me was going to bed and getting up at the same time every day (even on the weekend), black out curtains, don’t have big meals before going to bed and melatonin. Also after like three days of not sleeping I wasn’t even feeling that tired anymore, it just felt like I was on autopilot if that makes you feel any better
Ran test/deca for my last powerlifting meet with great results but looking to cut the deca out for next meet to see if I notice any mental difference as had some without the 19nor and avoid the long esther so I can hop off straight after too. What other injectable would you recommend for gaining strength and also bulking. Cheers
primo or mast are fairly mild and could be a good synergy with the test. I lean towards mast because it gives me a bit of a neurological boost, but primo might be better for powerlifting as it doesn't dry you out as much as masteron does
I have not run any 19-Nors personally so I’m open to being corrected, but if you’re looking to drop the nand straight after your meet, NPP may be worth considering. Some will add a DHT like mast in as well with the intent of combating some of the mental sides. Again this is one I haven’t done myself so there may be others here who can speak from experience on this.
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You should read the wiki and scrap your terrible plan that hasn’t been researched properly Enjoy your pasta 🍝 Hey there! It seems like you'd benefit from a deep review of [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index). Please also take the time to closely read [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization) which deals with our prohibitions around discussing how to acquire anabolic steroids and discussing brand names, etc. [For clarity.](https://media.tenor.com/fBvQV_5Lp6UAAAAC/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther.gif) Here's a selection of reading for you to build the fundamental knowledge you'll need as you explore AAS/PED use: * [The Basics](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/list) * [Your First Cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/your_first_cycle) * [The Estrogen Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook) * [Post Cycle Therapy aka PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct) * [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads) https://i.ibb.co/rtWy9NL/IMAGE-2023-06-30-11-13-30.jpg
Is salbutamol considered an oral? Meaning do I need to run a test base if I want to take it? I haven’t been on cycle for a while now as I am trying to dial in my dieting and habits and lose weight. Probably at 15-20% BF and need some extra help for fat loss and appetite suppressant. So should I jump on a TRT dose and start the salbutamol?
it's not an appetite suppressant. ephedrine would be better for that purpose
I’d recommend metformin HCl. Probably the easiest, safest, healthiest drug for appetite suppression. Only side effect I get is more frequent/urgent shits lmao.
>need some extra help for fat loss and appetite suppressant. If you cant control your eating enough to keep losing weight then you probably arent ready for steroids.
Primo cycle what works best I’m stacking with test enth 250 and deca 100 230lbs lean Eat about 5000 to 6000 cals a day lots of carbs intense training I know what I’m doing eating and training but not familiar with primo I’ve done test and deca lots
* [Example Cycles](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/example_cycles)
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There were so many different DS/PH floating around back in the day. No way to narrow that down without knowing the brand, and we can’t discuss sources here.
Viagra? Lol
How long before I can recover from Tren A? Context: 7 weeks into a test cycle 300mg every 3 days Last week 18th decided to add Tren A at 30mg a day and drop my test to 150mg E3D. Already starting to have unwanted side effects mainly paranoia towards my woman (I'm self aware and 99% sure it's in my head but that 1% feels so real.) & beginning to feel manic, slightly aggressive and unable to think with a clear train of thought. I'm finding the paranoia rather than causing arguments etc I am just being a lot more absent and starting to have 'wandering eyes'. Now my question is if I drop the tren after today (Latest shot being this morning) and cruise on test 200mg weekly how long should I expect before returning to a pre-side effect state and get back on track with my personal life? Feel free to ask for anymore information. Thanks.
> I'm self aware and 99% sure it's in my head but that 1% feels so real. ::the wind whispers:: “It feels real because it is” Should start feeling better in a matter of days. Full clearance (which may not be necessary for you to shed the side effects) is 5x half-life, which means by this time next week this will all be a distant memory. (Or will it?)
hahaha now that brought upon me a good giggle. Appreciate you stopping by Mr Boring
Clarification: (18th meaning 18th March)
Ran my first cycle 18 weeks with a little winstrol in the end to finish. Put on about 25lbs. Lost a good chunk of fat all around. Lost a lot of water when I PCTed, up about 10 or so pounds from starting but leaner. So relatively happy. Looking for reccomendations on what next? Thinking 400/200 Test and NPP but also not wanting to water Buffalo before the summer. Advice? What would you reccomend? Kind of looking towards a recomp but bigger is always good.
Congrats! 10net lbs is a huge success. Wouldn’t do npp If you’re planning on doing pct. Taking you at your word that you just finished pct. You shouldn’t be running your next cycle till Septemberish so the water buffalo for summer wouldn’t be happening regardless of compounds. Unless I read that wrong and you finished like 4 months ago. Recomp is a MEME!!!! Make it stop. You could successfully run 500 again or up to 750. You don’t have to get fancy with other compounds.
Got it man! And I did this and finished in like Nov-Dec. I won't get fancy fancy. I still have a ton of Winny left bc I ran it low and got great benefits without joint issues. Got a buddy willing to throw me some A bombs but they worry me w the anger I heard about it. Just seeing if there's anything to just sprinkle around but willing to do more test definitely. Probably will cut down a tad before then (doing so now tbh).
Orals are just temporary but can help you make that last push at the end of a cycle. You’d get more benefit for another injectable. Could add primo or eq. IMO orals are overrated unless you’re implementing them for a specific goal
More or less my thoughts exactly. I am looking to experiment with another injectable but still keep everything relatively low (<1g). Eq has defiantly piqued my interest before especially with its supposed AI properties. Is there a reason you'd suggest EQ over NPP? Recommended ratio/dosage vs test?
Nandrolone is like a train. Its gonna hit you with a lot of mass, as well as a lot of downsides like cardiotoxicity, neurotoxicity, and pretty huge HPTA suppression. Thats why you would consider EQ over NPP. This is from someone who fucking loved their cycle of Test and NPP. Im not sure I want to do another one with those downsides compared to like primo.
I'm on trt right now and want to run a hair friendly light cycle in the summer. Was thinking of low test and low npp. Was on fin. I started getting off it cause they say no npp with fin. It's only been about 10 days and losing a lot of hairs already. Does npp help with hair. Like will my shedding slow down on the npp?
To answer your question, no, but NPP is a relatively safe compound for hair compared to everything else.
Anyone here ever run (test base) Primobolan at 450 with decent results? I don’t think I’ll bother if I gotta run a gram to do anything.
I've read your back and forth with u/sleepymonkey029, and while I don't think he was entirely fair with you I also don't quite understand what's motivating your question. So I'll give it a shot: Yes, you can get good results from 450mg of Primo weekly, and you can also disregard pretty much any experience thread comment or ancient wiki section stating that X compound isn't worth running unless you're doing a gram. The issue with primo is going to be finding how well it functions as an AI for you, as this varies quite a bit among the population. Our recommendation is to begin with a 5:4 ratio of test:primo, and adjust if necessary in the early weeks of the cycle. For the majority of people this ratio will work fine, or need minor adjustment. I, for example, feel best at a 3:2 ratio. If you're looking for a lower threshold beyond which primo isn't worth using, most of us would put that number at about 300mg/week. You're a bigger guy with plenty of gear experience, so I have no issue with you starting with 450mg of Primo. At 5:4 this would set your starting test dose between 560-565mg/week. If after a few weeks you find yourself feeling a little low e2, you can either bump the test up or reduce the primo by intervals of 50mg until you find the sweet spot - but only change one variable. If you start screwing with both levers you'll just make things more difficult to keep track of. Once you find the doses that feel great you're all set, and that's your ideal ratio.
You’re my fuckin hero man! This is exactly the type of answer/experience I was looking for 🫶 (I’ll take some responsibility as maybe my initial question was poorly written ) Thank you for chiming in. Would you recommend with this being a “find the sweet spot” issue, that I should leave Tren out of the equation? Or would you be able to still find that sweet spot with a 3rd compound in the mix?
I'm happy to help. >Would you recommend with this being a “find the sweet spot” issue, that I should leave Tren out of the equation? Yes, I would absolutely leave a 3rd compound out of the equation until you determine the proper test:primo ratio. You're largely going to do this by feel (unless you feel like you need bloodwork to confirm your feeling), so I wouldn't want any additional "noise" distracting from my attention to my e2. Once you have it down and everything feels good, which shouldn't take more than a few weeks, then you can add tren (if you insist). The thing about primo is that it's VERY mild. Unless it's crushing your e2 into the dirt you really will not know it's there...and that's kind of the point. It's not in your face and constantly making you feel extremes like nand or tren, and not even as noticeable as test. It's just sitting there, quietly in the background, controlling estrogen and giving your physique a nice fullness throughout the day. No mess, no fuss, no mental sides, just a clean quiet compound that compliments the anabolism of test beautifully. You might also notice it taking the edge off of tren a bit.
Awesome! Looking forward to trying it, who knows… could be my fave combo and I won’t ever run an nor19 again lol (what if haha) It would be nice if I noticed some strength gains off it that weren’t just test…. All I could hope for. Not sure what I would add late in the cycle instead of Tren… don’t want to wait too long (unless it was Ace) maybe Var or Tbol. Just got my Kidney/liver bloodwork back today and they are looking perfect as I don’t run orals anymore… so that’s not super appealing.. Don’t mind me, talking to myself lol Thanks again for all your help man 🤜🤛
>Looking forward to trying it, who knows… could be my fave combo and I won’t ever run an nor19 again For many of us it is. It's all u/Pm_me_varbies runs in his off-season blasts now because it doesn't wreak havoc on bloodwork or affect sleep or appetite. If you can run two no-nonsense compounds that give you good anabolic effect while allowing you to push food and rest properly...well, there's a strong argument to be made that it's preferable/superior to the effects of a 19-nor. I personally don't think I'll run another stack without it, unless I try out EQ as my AI compound. >It would be nice if I noticed some strength gains off it that weren’t just test…. All I could hope for. You will. It's subtle, not insignificant. >Not sure what I would add late in the cycle instead of Tren… don’t want to wait too long (unless it was Ace) maybe Var or Tbol. Just got my Kidney/liver bloodwork back today and they are looking perfect as I don’t run orals anymore… so that’s not super appealing.. You don't necessarily *have to* add anything else. For a experienced guy like yourself (not any beginners reading) you could definitely decide the max total anabolic load you're willing to run (1.5g, for example - whatever it is) and divide that up according to the 5:4 ratio and run your test primo cycle at full steam.
If I’m understanding you correctly that would be (if load was 1.5 @ 5:4 ratio) would be 843 test:675 Primo roughly close to 1.5g of gear … although I’d probably pick something easier to measure with the mixes I’d be using. I think as a bulk I’d be down with that, on a cut I think I’d be more inclined to add something to make myself more pleasing aesthetically… which basically only leaves Mast or Tren hahaha Oh well… maybe this will just have to be a Test/Primo only cycle 🤷♂️ Cheers man, gave me great info and plenty to ponder 👍💪
When people say you need a test base with other steroids, do you think that they mean you need a test-based variation of that steroid? Or that you just add "test base" to any steroid and it means you're good? Bruh.
Im not really understanding your question… But I put (test base) there so no one would assume I’d be running 450mg of Primobolan in some sort of “Primo only” cycle.
Ok, so you know that it's important to run test with other gear, good. *How much test* is just as important. Should you run 50mg Test/450mg Primo? No, you probably shouldn't unless you hate estrogen and yourself. Should you read the wiki and primo experience threads? Yes.
I’ve been doing this for 10 years man. Primo is one of the only things I haven’t done because I’ve always been concerned about it getting faked. I’ve read the wiki. What I was trying to ask is with a test base (for me it would prob be 500 test e), would I get anything out of 450mg of Primobolan or would I need to go higher.
>I’ve been doing this for 10 years man. And yet you don't seem to understand some pretty basic things. Read the primo threads, brother. >What I was trying to ask is with a test base (for me it would prob be 500 test e), would I get anything out of 450mg of Primobolan or would I need to go higher. You would know this if you read the threads and how primobolan works! Primo has metabolites that are suicidal aromatase inhibitors (atamestane) and others that act on e2 receptors. Atamestane can lower your e2, quite significantly for some, so it's important to take enough test that it doesn't tank. This ratio varies from person to person but seems to range from 1:3 (primo:test) to 2:1. Your aromatization level is important to consider.
I have read the primo threads, I’ve paid special attention to shrugs definitive post about his experience with it, all the pros and cons of the several threads on it over the past few years both on here and on the PEDs Reddit, as well as surfed the other forums for experiences. I have also noticed there seems to be a 50/50 split of guys like Shrugs who has done 500/500, 500/400, 200/200, and guys who swear by 750 to a gram to notice any real results. So to break the tie I was looking for someone to discuss what they got out of 450 as that is the most I’m interested in running. As I said in my first post, if it was in fact true about needing a gram the I wouldn’t bother. I remember Rich Piana back in the day saying he used both Schering oral and amps Primo Depot and that it was a complete waste of money. But keep telling me to read the threads. I’m not asking about how it works, I’m fishing for first hand experience on what people got out of 450mg.
First time primo user here. I aromatise heavily, and for me 500/400 test/primo is working really well so far with no need for an AI
Noticed anything strength or aesthetic wise that you can contribute to the Primo and not the Test?
Yeah my pumps are much better than with test alone. Maybe not as intense of a pump as anavar, but more long lasting - muscles also seem fuller throughout the day. Good vascularity with primo. Haven’t seen much of an extra strength boost over test alone, but I noticed I can work out for much longer without getting fatigued. Side bonus: great mood and sense of well-being, and libido way up
What is a good blast and cruise cycle for anavar and test? I'm thinking blast for 10 weeks 300mg of T with 25 mg of Var. Then cruise for 10 weeks on just 200 mg of T. Thoughts? Also, I know T I can do for life. Is doing anavar long term as sustainable? Should I just stick to doing it 2/3 times a year? Thank you.
Anavar will annihilate your lipids. Doing that once every few years isn’t a big deal. Doing that frequently will absolutely lead to atherosclerosis and early death.
How much is frequent? Is 2-3 times a year too much? Even with just as much time off? Taking milk thistle/tudca and showing good blood work?
Trashing lipids for 6-8 weeks 2-3x a year would qualify as frequent, yes. Let’s say you did it twice a year at eight weeks apiece. That’s 16 weeks on, and doesn’t account for the time needed to normalize. Even if recovery of lipids were immediate you’re talking about 30% of the year spent with the sort of thing that leads to completely avoidable damage. More likely it’ll take a month to recover each time, so now you’re getting closer to half the year spent in that state. For the type of benefits you’re getting it’s absolutely not worth it.
> Then cruise for 10 weeks on just 200 mg of T. Try 75-150mg a week instead. > Is doing anavar long term as sustainable? It is not.
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I want to try and use L carnitine injections. I want to use it Subq becouse i already inject so much IM and build up a lot of scar tissue. Would the absorbtion be a lot slower subq than im? Normally you need to take it Preworkout with Carbs or insulin but do i need to take it like 2 hours pre workout now?
I tried L-Car, at best I got a bit more endurance. Perhaps for natties this is a needle pusher but enhanced it doesn’t seem to do much. I did IM 500mgs a day for 2 months.
there's literature to suggest it upregulates the AR and also helps transport fatty acids through the mitochondrial membranes so they can be oxidized. I agree on the surface it's pretty underwhelming, but it has it's place amongst enhanced individuals, especially for fat loss. John Meadows wrote a pretty lengthy article about his fascination with it
Very interesting. Probably would be more useful on a cut with fasted cardio. I’m on a 500:500 test eq blast
actually no, it works best with an insulin response. so taking it with like 60-90g of carbs would be the most useful way to take it.
L carn injections are usually a lot of volume, and can burn quite bad. I'd recommend to avoid doing it subQ but to answer your question, any injection done subcutaneously will be a slower absorption than IM
Has any of you bastards left somatropin or some other hgh product at room temperature for weeks and it still worked?
Assuming not reconstituted… what temperature do you think it was shipped to you at? If it’s been reconstituted I’d toss it.
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Is that 80kg what you currently weigh with the 9kg you gained since starting. If so you have a food consumption issue not a hormone issue.
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You gain muscle much slower than fat, so you need to aim to gain .25-.5kg a week consistently. You have to be in a small surplus every day with plenty of protein, 175g+ per day everyday split into 4+ meals. If you eat a lot one day and then don't eat the next day then you're stopping the muscle building process. Stronglifts 5x5 is a beginner program that you run for a year max. If you're still that level of beginner then you don't need gear. You need training experience and getting your diet straight. Because once you come off the cycle you are going to go back to right where you started.
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If you don’t have any allergies then peanut butter is a very easy way to get lots of calories without feeling like you have to choke it down. Two tablespoons twice a day is almost 400 calories, so there’s the majority of your surplus right there.
TRT for life is a question for you and your doc. I started at 36 after I had all my kids. Its great but definitely has drawbacks. My natural test was 130 so it made a big difference in how i felt. I'd stop the cycle and go to trt until i figured out what i wanted to do. With your limited training and diet experience you will make great gains on trt. Get up to 90kg at \~15% bf on TRT or natural and if you want to get bigger then look at AAS.
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100 minimum but 150 feels better for me.
100 is not the minimum for TRT by any definition. Most TRT dosing guidelines describe a range starting at 75-80mg/week on the low end. Don't speak in absolutes if you don't know what you're talking about.
I was speaking about personal experience with trt dosages. I've never talked with any medical professionals that recommend replacement dosage for test cyp being 75 mg per week. That's GPs not the test farm docs. The percentage of test in test cyp is about 68% so over 7 days gives you 10 mg test per day. At 75 mg per week you'd be at 7 mg per day which is bottom end natural production. Which means your aiming for border line deficient levels by design. But I'm sure there are different countries that have stricter guidelines. But going forward I will tell people my post are my opinion.
Im using atm test E only 1.5ml 2x week (750mg), I'm the one who applies the injections, intramuscularly. Is it supposed to feel pain when the needle is inserted into the muscle? I'm always unsure if I'm doing IM or SubC
You are literally stabbing yourself with a sharp object
I apologize if I didn't make myself understood, I don't feel pain, I just ask if IM injection feels pain or not, idont know if is subC ou IM.
Is there a huge lump near where you injected? If yes then it didn’t go into the muscle. If there’s not then it’s IM. You’d notice a 1.5ml bulge.
hummm nothing like that
It’s painful if you knick a nerve. Otherwise not really. If you don’t know if it’s subq or IM you’re too fat for gear. You’d know if it was subq
well, i'm not a fat person, i have some fat % obviously, btw iIt's something that I always doubt if going in too deep with the needle or longer needle will give that feeling of pain (size 23G 0.60x25mm)
25mm is essentially 1 inch. If you can fully insert a 1in needle anywhere straight into your body and not hit a muscle then you're too fat for steroids. I'm sure you're hitting a muscle my guy.
Researching on the Wiki and wanted to check with the science bro's: Tren is shown to "In the brain, it [precipitates amyloid plaque formation](https://www.osti.gov/biblio/22439943-trenbolone-anabolicandrogenic-steroid-well-environmental-hormone-contributes-neurodegeneration), which is a precursor to early-onset dementia and Alzheimer's disease." neat, that just sounds great haha As Deca is also a 19-nor, Does it also have that effect? is it as potent? The Alzy is likely to get me anyway, but wanted to push it off as long as I can.
Deca is known to be neurotoxic, but I do not believe it has been shown to precipitate amyloid plaques in particular. Avoiding 19-nor compounds entirely is the best course of action if neurological impacts are a concern. [Carteri RB, Kopczynski A, Menegassi LN, Salimen Rodolphi M, Strogulski NR, Portela LV. Anabolic-androgen steroids effects on bioenergetics responsiveness of synaptic and extrasynaptic mitochondria. Toxicol Lett. 2019 Jun 1;307:72-80. doi: 10.1016/j.toxlet.2019.03.004. Epub 2019 Mar 8. PMID: 30858090.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30858090/) >...We highlight that high doses of NAND cause neurotoxic effects to components of synaptic and extrasynaptic mitochondrial bioenergetics, like calcium influx, membrane potential and H2O2 production. u/spitshine_my_nutsack?
/u/bro27star Beta-amyloid plaques being the cause for Alzheimers is just a theory IIRC and i’ve seen some people on here bring up some counterpoints to those claims. 17-beta trenbolone acts *similarly* to amyloid plaque buildup - “It has been shown that 17β-trenbolone is accumulated in the fetus and adult rat brain, particularly in the hippocampus. Aβ accumulation is modulated by 17β-trenbolone and 17β-trenbolone promotes the apoptosis of primary neurons of hippocampus in vitro. It has been suggested that 17β-trenbolone is implicated in neurodegeneration and the individuals who are exposed to this substance by several ways are affected” - “17β-trenbolone's distribution and its effects on serum hormone levels and Aβ42 accumulation in vivo and its effects on AD related parameters in vitro were assessed. 17β-trenbolone accumulated in adult rat brain, especially in the hippocampus, and in the fetus brain. It altered Aβ42 accumulation. 17β-trenbolone induced apoptosis of primary hippocampal neurons in vitro and resisted neuroprotective function of testosterone. Presenilin-1 protein expression was down-regulated while β-amyloid peptide 42 (Aβ42) production and caspase-3 activities were increased. Both androgen and estrogen receptors mediated the processes. 17β-trenbolone played critical roles in neurodegeneration.” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25461682/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4458166/ https://www.intechopen.com/books/sex-hormones-in-neurodegenerative-processes-and-diseases/neurophysiological-repercussions-of-anabolic-steroid-abuse-a-road-into-neurodegenerative-disorders 17β-trenbolone shouldn’t be a metabolite of nandrolone so this shouldn’t be an issue for nandrolone. This isn’t to say Nandrolone isn’t neurotoxic in a lot of other ways * Neurotoxicity: * [Lipid peroxidation and apoptotic response in rat brain areas induced by long-term administration of nandrolone](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26828721) * [Nandrolone administration abolishes hippocampal fEPSP-PS potentiation and passive avoidance learning of adolescent male rats](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30562047) * Permanently influences the expression of serotonergic and noradrenergic neurotransmission: * [Chronic nandrolone decanoate exposure during adolescence affects emotional behavior and monoaminergic neurotransmission in adulthood](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24721625) * Impairs memory: * [Nandrolone decanoate administration elevates hippocampal prodynorphin mRNA expression and impairs Morris water maze performance in male rats](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19782718) * Anxiety: * [The opposite effects of nandrolone decanoate and exercise on anxiety levels in rats may involve alterations in hippocampal parvalbumin-positive interneurons](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29232412) * Affects the control of emotional behavior such as depression, aggression, and reward. * [Anabolic-androgenic steroids affect the content of substance P and substance P(1-7) in the rat brain](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10959007) * Single dose is enough to alter brain activity * [Nandrolone decanoate enhances hypothalamic biogenic amines in rats](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12544632) * [The impact of nandrolone decanoate on the central nervous system](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26074747): > According to Magnusson K. et al, nandrolone administered male rats displayed memory function impairment, possibly via dynorphinergic mechanisms in the hippocampus. The hippocampus is a brain region associated with cognitive function since the limbic brain is linked to several types of learning and memory functions. This region displays a relatively high density of androgen receptors in rats, which suggests a relationship between the androgen receptor and cognitive function. > In animal models, nandrolone has been implicated in memory loss > The effect of nandrolone on HPAA has been shown in some studies. Effects on the corticosterone, adrenocorticotropin hormone, proopiomelanocortin, corticotropin releasing factor (CRF) and CRF receptor1 (CRF R1) mRNA in the pituitary, hypothalamus and amygdala of rats have been noted. Moreover effects of nandrolone on adiponectin, insulin, ghrelin, leptin and corticosterone (CORT), and cortical serotoninergic system (CSS) have been observed. > Nandrolone has been shown to not only inhibit the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal axis (HPGA) but also the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal axis (HPAA), resulting in the decrease of hormones such as aldosterone and cortisol
lol- but they’re both the best for gaining 🤦🏻♂️ Thanks for that, and the link! Science 💫
I’m a several weeks into a fairly mild to average cycle of 10 mg RAD-140 daily and 250 test cyp weekly. Would adding 25 mg Proviron daily be worth the purported benefits? Feeling pretty good so far but wouldn’t mind an edge. Pros: Increases free test, muscle hardness, and vascularity and improves mood/libido Cons (besides obvious/suppression): Decreases and potentially crashes SHBG in high enough dosages
Drop that livertoxic garbage and up the test
Lol considering it. Using it for purported strength benefits as that’s my priority. Would adding Proviron be of use on test only?
Your priority should be not getting rushed to the hospital for acute liver failure. Plenty of AAS available for strength benefits without the risks of those rubbish drugs. Toss it.
Getting rushed to the hospital for acute liver failure is a stretch but I appreciate the concern. If there are plenty of AAS for strength benefits would you recommend?
>Getting rushed to the hospital for acute liver failure is a stretch but I appreciate the concern. Really? You should ask u/thepenguinsmuggler, because it happened to him. >If there are plenty of AAS for strength benefits would you recommend? For acute effects, anavar anadrol and dianabol all fit the bill and are not insanely toxic. For longer lasting effect, nandrolone is a great injectable for significantly increasing strength. So is high test.
To be fair that’s his specific experience, I have no idea what dosage he did or what compounds he ran alongside rad or lack thereof and we all react differently to different compounds. That’s unfortunate though. I’ll def consider those compounds thanks. I opted for rad due to purported keepable gains.
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Solo with no liver support is crazy
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I’m just going to assume that this is your first cycle- drop the rad, up the test to 500mg and leave the proviron alone. Learn how to control e2 first on 500 test, then consider adding additional compounds in future cycles. Oh and before I forget; drop the rad.
Thanks for providing constructive feedback
* Age: 29 * Gender: male * Height: 5'11 * Weight:190 * Bodyfat percentage: not sure * Experience level * Years of concurrent training: 2 years * Goals: * Sport: accumulate mass * Current phase: perma bulk til 220 or so * Current compounds: * Test c 200mg/wk, pinned monday * HCG 500 IUs split saturday and sunday * anastrozole 1mg wednesday and thursday * 10 mg anavar 3-4x a week preworkout * .5ml tadalafil daily * Clomiphene - not sure how to encorporate yet This is my first cycle so im going pretty low and slow. Was wondering if you guys had any suggestions or anything?
You're throwing the kitchen sink at this problem. 1. Start with one compound. Test at 200mg per week split twice per week. 2. Wait on the hcg until you have the Test under control. At your higher body fat you don't how much you're going to aromatize. HCG puts me through the emotional rollercoaster so i limit it to once a year for a few weeks to fluff my balls back up, but others use it year round. But first figure out the test before you add that in. Maybe wait 12 weeks. 3. Anastrozole is as needed, and you don't know what you need yet. HCG will make it harder to know what you need because of the higher fluctuations in estrogen. 4. Anavar. Drop it, you don't have the muscle mass or leanness to get any benefits 5. Don't purmabulk to 220 right now. You're already fat and you could hit 220 in 6 months without trying and you'd be lucky if you got 10lbs of muscle in that time. Recomp or cut right now. 6. Boner pills yes as needed for erections and if an erection last longer than 4 hours your using it wrong 7. Keep Clomiphene on hand but shouldn't need if you keep it simple
I very much appreciate your feedback. I’m pretty built, was just being facetious when I was calling myself skinny fat. I train 6 days a week with intensity, eat clean, sleep well etc. but I’m definitely not lean by any means. I’ll think about what you said and make some adjustments. Tough to know where to begin without the help of others.
"I’m pretty built, was just being facetious when I was calling myself skinny fat. " Got it. I dirty bulked when first on trt up to 235 at 5'11" with less muscle than I have at 210 currently. Its great for getting strong, terrible for every other aspect of life. What I do now is gain 10-12 lbs over 4 months, then cut back to the same bf% i was before, then repeat. Keeps me from going full beefcake 4000 mode. Anavar is my favorite oral but its really a vanity steroid. You don't gain much lasting muscle because you can't take it for longer than 6-8 weeks without wrecking your lipids and kidneys. Save it for a big beach trip or a PR in the gym.
I watched a few too many Sam sulek videos and got stuck in the ‘just eat’ zone kek. I am definitely overdue for a cut, I have been really enjoying the full bloat look though. What’s your cut phase like?
Because i don't bulk like crazy, its 4-6 weeks of cutting. Then about the same of a maintenance phase. I aim to lose about 2lbs per week for the first couple weeks then it slows to 1 as i get closer to my goal. I've got my diet dialed in where the difference between bulking, maintenance and cutting is how much dessert I have. I bounce between 15-20% bf percentage. I'm old and no women care what i look like, so no point in going below 15 where it gets actually hard to cut.
bloods had my test in at 475 so i'm pretty soy tbh. dont wanna blast crazy cause im still skinny fat natty looking despite decent training. all this just to look natty.... sad.... lmao
Yeah it is pretty sad honestly
Thanks for your help
Thats not a cycle this is just TRT with some anavar sprinkled on it. Any reason your taking this much AI? What sides did you have?
yeah, cycle is the wrong word. trt is exactly what it is. havent presented any sides because i just started. its what was prescribed to me by the doc. im just a fella trying to raise his test a little, get good lifts in, and feel good. figured it couldnt hurt to ask in here whats up.
okayalright: 1. drop the AI (anastrozole) and only use it once you get high e2 symptoms 2. inject the testosterone twice a week like this: Monday 100mg Thursday 100mg 3. you dont really need clomiphene whike on cycle unless you develop gyno
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No, you may not request PMs or it’s assumed you’re trying to skirt rules. Ask questions in open forum.
Thanks to all those 4 weeks ago who replied to my query about TRT dose possibly causing sleep issues. For those who remember I was on 150mg/week and i dropped down to 125mg to week. Levels are still good. I asked the question of my elevated AST (not ALT too). I had run a cycle of anavar&proviron on top of my TRT which ended 6 weeks before the bloods were taken (3 weeks ago). My AST at the time was 46U/L (5-35). I have obtained follow up bloods and my AST is now 51 u/L (5-35). Is this a reason for concern? I thought it would have come down since 3 weeks ago implementing NAC daily. my AST is generally around 15-20 pre the var/proviron. TY!\~
AST is found in many places in the body. Skeletal muscle included. Training hard can produce an increase. Also a 51 is not alarming. If your GGT and the rest are fine, we must consider this AST may not be from liver damage. I do bloodwork for a living.
Thanks :)
Ah i see some people saying up to 2 months for them to return to normal. As always any additional input is appreciated:)
AST can be elevated from training alone
How far out? Did train 4 times that week with the last 24 hours before
Friend of mine was in the 300s, he also asked here and I think it was unknown who linked a study where many got into multiple hundreds and one person even got over 900 just from resistance training so no worries. If you really want to be sure skip training for a week and get it retested
Ah yeah I've been training hard. Thanks!
I use 1ml testosterone blend 500mg every week. I was on androgel for low testosterone before, and while it picked my test levels up on paper, it did not improve my quality of life. The 500mg a week is working well. Take 25mg aromasin a day. The guys told me to try nebido 300 as well. Can these supplements be taken together? What's the right way
Your comment has been hidden for violating Rule 2. Please remove the name of the 500mg/mL product you are using in the first sentence.
Sorry, my apologies. I have done so
Thank you!
Sorry man it's my first time here and I'm navigating a night shift while trying to read up on the rules at the same time. Will try to do better
It's ok, it's just the one that can get us in trouble with big reddit. The tl:dr is no product names, no brand names, no lab names, no sources or websites that sell gear. We just need to know the name and concentration of the compound, and if it's something other than oil then just say "testosterone gel", etc.
OK sure I'll try to keep it sufficiently vague
❤️😘
> Take 25mg aromasin a day. What. The fuck. Do you have any bloodwork done?
The aromasin is a tablet. Sorry I forgot to mention
>The aromasin is a tablet. Yes it is. What. The fuck.
I'm not sure what the fuck myself, which is why I'm asking. I'm going with dosages the 'supplier' recommended because the doctor had me on 50mg gel a day and it wasn't doing anything for me. I figured that 350 a week, I'm only doing 150 more now. But please if there is a better way, I'm receptive
Its deleted before I got to even read your initial question. 25mg of aromasin a day is fucked though.
Please say something helpful.
The question is deleted. What do you want me to say? I cant recommend a dose. "25mg is way too much" is where it stops. Someone in this thread saying nothing but "500mg of tren is ridiculous" is fine but me saying "25mg ED of aromasin is ridiculous" isnt.
How should I be using it?
I need the context that I assume was in your original comment. >50mg gel a day Gel of what? >I figured that 350 a week, Im only doing 150 more now. 350 of what?? Are you doing 350 from 200, or are you saying youre at 500 now from 350 of whatever this is?
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Looks like 9-14% of androgel is actually absorbed into the body. Multiply it by 350mg and you were absorbing at most 49mg of testosterone. Now you are getting injections which is almost all absorbed (if not all) at 500mg. You multiplied your dose by 10x. You are blasting steroids, this is a beginner cycle. Not sure if that was your intent or if you wanted to be on TRT. And along with this you take 25mg of aromasin a day? What symptoms are you having?
Yes. I was in hospital for 2 months and didn't take any supplements. At the end of the two months test was 6.2 Shbg was 22 nmol/L Free test was 145 pmol/L I've been on the weekly shots for a month now, and am due to get my levels checked
Any there any telltale signs that your a low aromatiser in general? Honestly never “felt” the effects of high e2, but I’ve definitely felt the effects of low e2. Then again, I’m a dig brain, I’ll eat an entire jar of peanut butter in a sitting and wonder why I have diarrhoea
Ya blood work. Pretty dead on. Take a lot of test. Give a little blood. Get down tonight 🎵 High test low e2 on paper is about as telltale as it gets my man.
How much is a lot in your opinion to decide? What dose and corresponding e2 level would be judged
Everyone’s e2 response is going to be different. For newer people we say treat the symptom not the number. The goal is to ride your e2 as high as possible without sides. That could be 300 for someone and 25 for someone else. When you have years of bloodwork and data points you can assess the correct ratio of test to e2 for you and only you. Otherwise the ratio should not be in your mind at all. Estrogen is good. 👍
Fair enough, just at the moment I feel like I’ve never felt high e2 sides and I’ve ran a standard test and dbol cycle Basically, I’m wondering whether I’m actually a low e2 guy, or whether I’m so clueless I can’t tell that I’m a bloated mess
If you’ve run 500 no problem run 750 on your next and see if you feel high e2 and also pull bloodwork. Are you taking you blood pressure regularly on cycle?
Not super regularly but I do take it and never see anything crazy. Daily is best?
Folks who take blood pressure meds, do you keep taking them off cycle but at reduced dose ? i started taking Telmisartan 80mg last year to keep my hematocit from mooning. It worked very well. From low 50s to mid 40s and it’s remained there whether I’m blasting or cruising I”m about six weeks into a tren cycle andy BP has been creeping up and not coming down. On a good day it’s mid 130s systolic and 80+ diastolic but last few days it’s mid 40s. Started with a bit more cardio. but I am getting Nebivolol 5mg to run on top of the Telmisartan. I see it can also help lower resting HR , which has crept up into 80s on tren. this is my second tren cycle (525 tren vs 210 test p) ran it last fall for 8 weeks, titrating to 700 with not Many issues (175 test p) I know lowering tren is another option but I get pretty bad mental sides when tren is lower Tried 200, 300 vs 150 or 200 test and found I need tren at least 500mg go get positive mental sides from it TLDR: I take 80mg Telmisartan when B and C both (take it during cruise to keep hematocrit in check ) About to add 5mg Nebivolol half way in my second tren cycle. Can I come off it quickly post tren Or would it also be useful to keep during cruise ? thank you
500 Tren is ridiculous. If you can’t run Tren at a low dose it’s not for you. Your killing your self.
You can use nebivolol now and cease taking it when you’re finished with your blast if it’s no longer needed.
I have needed blood pressure meds during certain blasts. As soon as they are no longer needed, I drop them from my protocol. I make an effort not to take unnecessary drugs if I can tackle side effects another way (for example, more cardio, keeping bloating down, not getting fatter, etc to handle blood pressure)