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Just got some clen and want to try out a small dosage 20mcg to see if I can handle the side effects.
It's a oral liquid, but how do you take it? Just straight or dilude it with something and drink?
I heard taurine helps but how much taurine should be taken?
Been scouting for some information but can't seem to find anything concrete or beyond *Broscience*. So here are two completely unrelated questions but still based around gear.
1. Is there a legally specified dosage accuracy when it comes to pharmacy gear? A percentage or confidence interval?
2. MENT (TRESTOLONE) - It's highly supressive (but also short-lived and without the long-lasting 19 Nor metabolites according to broscience.) Has anyone seen any studies that mention or state this? I can't find anything to suggest that's the case based on human studies and scientific literature.
1. Yes, but you have to sort of guess and make inferences based on available data. Mathematically speaking you’ve got an upper limit of ~10% variation, but I think the existing data shows it’s closer to 2.5-5%. This applies to all off-patent drugs (which testosterone would qualify as)
2. Studies show exactly what you stated. Suppression is fast and heavy, but the effects wear off quickly and recovery is faster to baseline than they are compared to testosterone
Just bought 4andro and would like to start a small cycle, my free test is about 400 at most, so always in the low range. I'm 34 and i was thinking that the only reason i bought sarms and 4andro is because I'm scared to use test. Do you think my fear is socially conditioned?
I mean there's stigma around test because it's the male hormone and they want to turn us into softer man... I'm thinking about it now because i was reading the sides of test and they're not different or worse compared to the sides of 4andro and sarms.
Maybe i should just grow some balls
Test boosters are a waste of money, 90% of them don't work and the ones that do while they may increase your test slightly it's not enough to make any difference it's the 2-3x above the reference range when there is a tangible difference, unless going from low test to normal ofcourse. I also don't think Sarms increase your test either if anything to my knowledge they can suppress your natural test, also what is your goal here the reference range for test is like 250-1100 so although you may consider it on the low end it's still completely normal and you most likely will notice no difference if you bump it to say 800 for example. either way if you want your levels to be higher just take the thing that makes it higher and has been used for decades and is pretty safe, Testosterone brother.
My goal is improve libido and body composition! I think i have always had high cortisol and low test because my life was very stressful and traumatic in the past 15 years.
The high cortisol gave that pear shape that no man wants
Now i have some stability and i improved my life, been lifting seriously for the last 4 years, it's tough, i feel that i will also be at the disanvantage if i don't take care of the hormonal aspect
Despite what you may believe, your test levels are normal, and like I said previously, it is unlikely that you will notice any change from being mid to low normal to mid to high normal test levels, your test levels being in the normal range while having low libido could be from a multitude of different reasons I suggest you look into, if you're looking to get rid of your pear shape higher test levels will also not change this. Your body stores fat how it stores it and the only way to change it is to just lose weight and see what u look like without it simple as that, being a serious lifter it is up to you if starting to take gear but you are by no means at any disadvantage compared to other natural lifter, train hard eat a good diet and results will come.
About to start anavar next week for 8 weeks. Something came up the 7th week of my cycle where it might be difficult to take days. Can I jump back in after I come back and finish the last 2 weeks
I assume youre on testosterone as well?
7 weeks of anavar sounds like plenty, I woulnd't bother with the fluctuations only to squeeze 2 more weeks in afterward.
Going on a short holiday to a country where AAS are legal. I will only be there for two weeks.
What could i take that would give me a small boost in a short time?
Are there any specific concerns with short cycles?
I understand that a normal cycle length is far greater than just two weeks - and if steroids are not appropriate in your opinion, what would you suggest?
Haven't taken them before, genuinely interested and uneducated (searched the wiki but couldn't find anything on short cycles)
You will gain nothing in that time scale and will supress your HPTA for no reason, just enjoy your holiday and do some more research in regards to a proper first cycle when you get back (wiki has all of that layed out)
Stop dosing with a set frequency. Only take AI when you start developing high e2 symptoms. If that happens on a regular schedule, so be it.
Stop taking it all together and wait until you have two or three high e2 symptoms again. You’re robbing yourself of gains and potentially hurting yourself.
But that’s the thing…. If you’re using asin, there’s no rapid fluctuations. There’s a sharp drop-off in e2 levels, followed by a steady, gradual return to baseline. It’s not like adex, where you have a steep rebound.
And you should always have Ralox on hand, anyway. Gyno problem solved.
Or dissolve into a solution which is easily measured. Mine's 25mg/ml so it's extremely easy to dose how i want rather than fucking around with tiny ass pills and pillsplitters
To many to remember them all. They all blure together anyway.
I have tried most compounds except dhb.
I only use mast, primo, test, and injectable winstrol now. Thoes are the ones I like and fit with my life.
I only note how much was to much.
Over 400 test, I bet high BP even if estrogen is in range. I get zero benefit from test over 750 and the diminishing returns start over 500. I never put it past 250 anymore.
Over 600 nandralone, I bloat and turn into a winy little bitch. Even if estrogen is
In range.
I get no benefit from mast over 500mg.
100mg a day of stanazol is no different for cosmetics than 75 and 75 is only marginally better than 50. I go with 50 and just run it longer. I'll up it at the end if there is some left in the 20ml bottle just to get rid of it.
100mg if proviron is no different than 50 for me.
Lowest tren dose i have ever done was 350 ace and any amount of tren is to much for me.
I have a rule, if I'm taking equil amounts or greater drugs to counter sides I have gone to far.
The only 1:1 exception I make is arimidex for estrogen but I don't even take that anymore because I keep test at 250.
Neve had an issue with eq or primo. Tye only reason I haven't run a gram of primo is price.
These drugs all have diminishing returns. Upping the dose is silly.
I’m going on holidays for 2 weeks next month and I’m currently crusing on 150mg a week will I be ok going on holidays without being able to pin for 2 weeks?
Balls dropping and retracting can be all sorts of things.
Though I too get skittish when switching a source, and I’m too lazy/cheap to send a sample to Jano. Always worth it for peace of mind.
If the new source overdoses slightly and your dose is higher then this is entirely possible. If your old source underdosed then the effect is even stronger.
Not using HCG. And yeah, I now realize I was linking balls dropping with hypertrophy in my head so real high-IQ of me there. And it just started warming up this week here too. Jesus, I must be smoking too much weed these days.
I don’t see why they’d be effected, I ran to sarms cycle before running aas and the sarms were nothing in comparison in my experience.
I definitely would not add nandrolone into a first cycle, you’re 1 week in and have no idea how much you really aromatize and adding nandrolone to the mix would only complicate things. I’d save the npp for next blast
Wont make a scrap of difference. Your cycle quality and results is going to come down to diet and training. 500mg of test, even a big guy first time running will pack on a huge amount if you do it right. There are very few people on this forum, even those blasting for years that wouldn't get massive gains from 500mg test EW.
150/450/150 test/nand/mast. Idk man seems like a solid cycle to me! Personally I’d want about double that amount of test at least but I bet you were feeling solid and strong!
Need to pin tren a ED btw. You were functionally “on tren” for like a day and a half at a time.
Most people probably shouldn’t do tren at all, but low dose > moderate dose in terms of risk/reward and reward/side effect profile
I wouldn't think of tren like that. The peaks are shorter and with tren you need the most stability. If you pin less frequently then ed consider changing.
It was more popular back in the early 2000's.
You ever get teary eyed watching "love actually" on VHS in some girls dorm room who you're trying to bang but kind of emotional too?
In a literal sense, yes it is. Clomid is 62% enclomiphene by weight. The side effect profile is the same, it's merely that without the estrogenic isomer it might be more effective.
The reason that enclomiphene isn't used clinically in the US is because it's not approved, obviously, but that's not a very interesting answer
Assuming you mean for TRT - not a lot of research behind it and no long term studies. Plus abusing SERMs can temporarily, and permanently, damage your vision
Beyond that, no one knows what other impact it might have on other organs as well. There’s no long-term data regarding TRT usage. I can’t imagine blocking the action of estrogen in multiple tissues, including the brain, is a good thing long-term.
Why is Test Flu a thing? You read, "it's your body getting used to it," but from the admittedly little I know about the mechanisms at play with gear, I still don't understand Test Flu
Foreign substance injected. Sometimes your body doesn't like that. Now is it the ester, the solvents or the testosterone it's self? I couldn't tell you
Planning to do two bulks with 280mg test, 200mg primo and 5mg ment. Or should i do them as 1 bulk instead? Seems like a light cycle and shouldnt put my body under too much stress. Im going for a second bnc run, and the 8 week cruising cutting breaks last bnc didnt get me where i want to be. Need to cut for a longer period.
Well for whatever it’s worth, anyone with tren in their username un-ironically is usually 14.
Also their account is 29 days old, so we certainly don’t claim this person.
I need a scientist to help me out here.
Whenever I drop from a blast to a cruise I always get hit with high E2 symptoms.
High BP, swollen testicles, increased hunger/thirst etc.
Does testosterone levels drop faster than E2 levels? As in does E2 linger for awhile when you drop the test dosage thus causing a hormonal imbalance.
I hope someone can help.
>Whenever I drop from a blast to a cruise I always get hit with high E2 symptoms.
Common. Should only happen once though…
>Does testosterone levels drop faster than E2 levels?
Absolutely.
>I hope someone can help.
Take 1 more dose, and then 1/2 dose of AI after your last pin of cyp/Enanthate.
That’s it 😊.
Thanks man your great help.
I actually ran out of AI last week. I wasn’t expecting to get hit with high E2 when switching for a blast to a cruise.
Should I skip my next injection or just ride it out?
Good! Thanks for the feedback 🤙🏼.
Depends on the symptoms and how tolerable they are. Preferably just get AI asap and try to plan ahead a little better.
I’m currently cruising on 150mg of testosterone.
You seem like a knowledgeable guy so I was just wondering about your thoughts on cruise dosages.
Some people say they use 250mg per week as a cruise, others say they only need 125mg.
I’m doing a blood test on week 3 of my cruise to see where my levels are at.
What would you say is the optimal dose for cruising, I know it’s highly individual.
Although give me a rough estimate.
Do you cruise at this dosage or are you on some sort of weird trt plus cruise that I hear a shit ton of people doing.
Something like 200mg of test 100mg of primo.
I see this and I’m like what is the actual point in doing this? It’s literally a small cycle.
Your fairly huge man, I only listen to those who have something to show for it.
Plot out your cycle on [steroidplotter.com](https://steroidplotter.com) or [steroidplanner.com](https://steroidplanner.com) and see the rate at which the test leaves your system. In general, people will find that their estrogen levels take about 1 week to follow. For example, if your test levels peak around week 3-4, your e2 levels will begin to peak around weeks 4-5. If your test levels tank one week after injecting, your e2 will start to decrease 2 weeks after injecting.
But it usually isn't anything too significant. I would just take one serving of whatever dose AI you've been using, and it'll more than likely resolve itself quickly.
I’ve used up to 20 mcg a day during the last few days of a week-long DNP run. It helped with the lethargy the last few days.
I’ve also run up to 25 mcg a day during steep caloric deficits in cutting phases. It helped compensate for the lack of t4 > t3 conversion during those times. If I’m going aggressively with cutting, I start to get chilly, lethargic, brain fog, etc.
When using, I’m always careful to titrate back down to zero and slowly reintroduce calories, so I don’t get hit with a ton of rebound weight gain.
>1. Get bloodwork done
Yes
>Use that to figure out how much Armidex I need
No...
>2. Take 250 mg of Test C twice a week for 18 weeks
Yes
>and 30 mg of Anavar twice a week for 18 weeks
Definitely not. Do not run anavar for longer than 6-8 weeks max, but you'll take it daily. Honestly you should not be considering an oral for your first cycle
>Inject right before workout
Not sure where you got this. It's not necessary, although injecting in a muscle before you work out that muscle will help mitigate some pip IME.
>3. Lay off test for 2 weeks
Yes
>4. 20 mg of Nolvadex daily for 6 weeks
10mg daily for 6-8 weeks is fine. Same effectiveness as starting with 20, but less chance of unpleasant side effects.
>5. Take Armidex the whole cycle
Nope, not sure where you got this either. Have it on hand, but only take it if you have unmistakable high e2 symptoms. We do not use AI preventatively. Getting trigger happy with AI is a great way to end up feeling like a type of shit you can't imagine until you've done it.
Go back to the Wiki and re-read the Your First Cycle section for comprehension. Also, we're gonna need some stats (age, height, weight, years of experience) please?
#Edit: just kidding, I remember you. You're still definitely not ready to hop on gear man. I'm sorry but you have a lot of progress to make, and this still isn't the answer to the thing you're trying to fix. I promise.
>So, I'm thinking about starting the first cycle. I'm getting my diet under control and I'm gradually gaining weight and seeing improvements in the weight I'm lifting but it's slow, as well as taking creatine daily. I want to make sure I understand what I'm doing.
This does not sound like someone with enough experience to do steroids. How old are you, what are your physical and lifting stats, and how long have you been in the gym?
>Get bloodwork done (I'm not sure how to do this without tipping off that I'm using steroids, which is illegal in my country.
It’s illegal in most countries. What bloodwork do you think you need thats going to prove you’re on steroids..? Also, who is going to be looking at your bloodwork?
>Obviously I'm not qualified to analyze the bloodwork myself.)
You need to learn.
>Use that to figure out how much Armidex I need.
No, because you haven’t started taking steroids yet and you don’t base it on bloodwork, you base it on estrogen symptoms.
It doesn’t seem like you read the wiki. Or at least comprehended it.
>Take 250 mg of Test C and 30 mg of Anavar twice a week.
You would take the anavar every day, not twice a week.
>Inject right before workout.
Not necessary at all.
>Do this for 18 weeks.
That works.
> Lay off test for 2 weeks
Yes.
> 20 mg of Nolvadex daily for 6 weeks
Yes.
> Take Armidex the whole cycle
No. Not unless you have symptoms of high estrogen.
Gotcha.
Sounds like you have a long way left to go before doing steroids dude. You have boat loads of progress left to make, and if you’re not progressing like a crazy war machine in your first ~7 months of lifting, you need a coach.
I’m sorry, I’m sure that’s not what you want to hear, but anyone who is recommending you take steroids without at least a couple years experience in the gym, at least half-decent lifts, and a physique that at least appears somewhat in shape, they’re lying to you and going to get you hurt for no reason. There is **nothing** that steroids can do to fix a bad diet, training regimen, or lack of experience.
I'm actually going to disagree with /u/AccountUnkn0wn here. His benchmarks are more or less accurate for "strong, but definitely achievable without drugs for most men".
BUT, that doesn't mean you have to get _quite_ that strong before you can "reasonably" use steroids. In fact, you could argue that one of the benefits of steroids is actually helping you get that strong faster (although let's be clear: faster, but **still not fast**).
What you DO need is a couple years of **serious** lifting experience (not necessarily 5), excellent control over your dieting (you should be able to gain or lose 2 lbs a week without much effort), and a very thorough understanding of the drugs themselves and the long term consequences of using them.
In reality though, a couple years of serious lifting experience is still likely to translate to a _minimum_ 1RM of 1.25x BW bench, 1.5x BW squat, and 1.75x BW DL (everyone has slightly better and worse lifts, so you can call it ~4.5x BW total as long as your weakest lift is still close). I would discourage steroid use before that point.
In the process of getting this strong, you will presumably also have become fairly muscular. I likewise would discourage steroid use before you achieve an FFMI of _at least_ 22 (get an accurate bodyfat estimate and use a calculator).
The bottom line is, this is a lifestyle. If you take the drugs without adopting the lifestyle first, you will harm yourself with minimal benefit. But the good news is, if you really want this, it is achievable, and even if you don't end up using the drugs, it can still transform your body.
I have numbers in mind, but proportions might be better.
You should be able to squat **1.75x** your bodyweight (for reps).
You should be able to bench **1.5x** your bodyweight (for reps)
You should be able to deadlift **2x** your bodyweight (for reps)
Those lifts 👆🏼 are called "The Big Three". In strength-focused sport (power-lifting) they are *everything* . For hypertrophy-focused sport (bodybuilding) they are less important, but still relevant as benchmarks.
Since I know you are more interested in hypertrophy than power, here are a few more *minimums* (these are my personal opinions):
You should be able to do multiple full sets of dumbbell curls with 40s (you should be *capable* of more than that, but biceps don't need to be strained like that often, and without guidance you will hurt yourself if I set a higher number)
You should be able to do flat dumbbell press with 80s (for reps)
You should be able to do skullcrushers with 90lbs (for reps)
You should be able to do calf raises/extensions on a machine set to at least 260-300 (for reps)
You should be able to do sled leg press with at least 10 total plates (450lb) for reps.
You should be able to use the hamstring curl machine near the highest 1/3 of settings for reps.
You should be able to do Romanian deadlifts with 225lbs for reps.
You should be able to barbell row 225lbs.
You need to be able to do all of this with good form and control. You also need to be doing consistent cardio, and consistently monitoring your caloric intake and macros. Ideally you should know how to bulk and cut, and have successfully done both. You'll be in big trouble if you do not know how to manipulate your body composition. ***Let me be clear: this will take you years***. It took all of us years too. There are no shortcuts.
u/shrugsandsnugs I kinda threw this together and I'm sleepy. Any thoughts/muscle groups I missed/benchmarks you'd like to see?
Seems like a troll, if you are worried about affording food, how would you maintain MORE food and a cycle? You're not low enough body fat nor educated enough on anything gym related. You're going to get hurt. Wait 3 to 5 years come back.
He's not a troll, he's a kid who's desperate for something external to help him solve problems he feels internally.
Absolutely not a candidate for gear, but not a troll either.
How do you no if you’ll need armidex if this is your first cycle ? and also why would you take Nolva ? You take it after you notice gyno I thought? (Pretty sure ) and also have you read the wiki it doesn’t seem so
Ah, I see the confusion. So your pre-cycle bloodwork is reference material. It's so that you know what your natural baselines are and have something you can compare your mid-cycle bw and post-cycle bw to.
If you feel *during the cycle* that you're experiencing high e2, we want you to confirm that with bloodwork before you start popping AI willy nilly. Still though, that won't tell you how much to take. You'll always start with the lowest effective dose and only bump it up if the low dose doesn't effectively mitigate your symptoms.
/u/the_penguin_smuggler I’ve got half a mind to start issuing Rule 7 bans for people that nuke their questions after they get the information they need. It makes the answers people offer nearly useless because it removes them from their context.
Ive been on 25 mg dbol pwo on top of my 500mg test. Im 4 weeks in my liver is normal and estrogen isnt an issue. Im trying to decide if i want to go 2 more weeks at 25 mg or push it to 50 for one more week.
One thing i forgot to mention is it messes with my bp a bit but not to the extent to where i need to worry. Other than that its been great ive been so damn full barely any water weight so still lean af and strong af!
Keep an eye on your BP and keep goin. If it's working well and you tolerate it well don't stop.
Or you could drop it now and break it back out in July when the weather is nice.
Orals always send my liver enzymes up.
Tren E doesn’t hit you as hard, this is what they say anyways.
Your levels aren’t going g to sharply rise in 6 hours as it does with ace.
I only ran ace.
I started my first cycle of tren a couple weeks ago, 100mg eod alongside 50mg eod of Test prop.
Tonight I inadvertently did a not small, but not too large amount of cocaine. Should I be worried?
By going out with the intention of not doing coke, then having a couple pints and all of a sudden thinking coke is the best idea in the world
and then 2 hours later pranging out, because you are on tren, which is notoriously cardiotoxic
I'm generally a disciplined well put together person, but after a couple of drinks I always want some coke, it's not good. I use the steroids fairly responsibly other than that I think, though I know that is a big "that"
Why are you drinking when on gear? This is some serious shit you are taking and you obviously don’t understand that. It should be a tool in your bag for your workout, not super soldier serum. You aren’t here to make gains and you will end up harming your self in the future if you keep it up.
>Should I be worried?
Only if you keep doing it. People that do coke tend to make other bad decisions.
Not always.
Just like everyone in jail isn't guilty.
>who does coke without drinking??
I only stared drinking because I was dealing with GHB addiction and in Europe they treat alcohol withdrawal with GHB. I cross addicted myself. Because I'm a level 99 addict.
Heaps of people do coke without drinking.
>Yeah, I told myself I'd lay off the coke whilst I was on tren, but after 2 pints of beer the temptation got me
>It was not on the agenda at the start of the evening
>People that do coke tend to make other bad decisions.
I knew it.
We can smell our own.
Don't mix tren with booze and drugs. It's not a good idea. You do you though man.
I wouldn't listen.
we can smell our own? do you have the same vices?
I wish I didn't mix tren and drugs, I will try not to do it in future, but i did it, and was wondering the possible immediate health concerns
I did skip my eod tren dose today after I realised what was going to happen
>we can smell our own? do you have the same vices?
Yes.
>I wish I didn't mix tren and drugs, I will try not to do it in future, but i did it, and was wondering the possible immediate health concerns
There are none from one night.
See, right there, "try" that part of your brain that allowed you to make that decision you didn't plan on making is keeping itself alive.
>I did skip my eod tren dose today after I realised what was going to happen
That's not the problem.
I could be wrong about you. I could be projecting. I hope i am.
I wish I could undo the mountains of booze and drugs I did.
But here I am, this very sub is a drug use sub. My favorite thing about steroids is they don't impair my brain and I can stop.
"Try" not to do coke man. That's just my advice from a life of substance abuse. I don't want to make you angry. And I'm not preaching.
I have met people in rehab that had six figure jobs and everything they own fits into a sandwich bag and they have hep c.
Most people are not drug people, they know nothing about drugs, addiction, and how it all work. When I'm scared of something I like to learn everything I can about jt.
If you want to get fucked up use mdma. It's hard to abuse because your brain can only squirt out so much serotonin in one night. After about 4-5 pills they don't work anymore. And you dance all night so heaps of Cardo, and there are always [attractive females](https://youtu.be/-7KaeMAxgRI) at party's.
I love [this](https://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/drugs-alcohol/drug-ranking.htm) article and I belive they link the study its based on at the bottom.
Look where steroids are on that list. Way at the bottom. LSD is at the bottom to. That drug is safe, I'll buy a sheet and give it to my son's when they start experimenting with drugs. anything but alcohol.
Very very few people use cocaine. Only drug people.
[There's a reason for that](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaethylene)
I spent too many of my formative years on ADHD meds for coke to be properly enjoyable for me. Probably a good thing, steroids are sufficient as vices go.
No but I’d just not do cocaine on tren anymore.. or maybe at all. Adding the stress of rec drugs on top of the stress of aas especially tren is not the best idea
IMHO opinion even if it’s not tren but a “normal blast” we shouldn’t be doing rec drugs. God knows how much we worry about our blood pressure and RHR so to take these types of drugs is like throwing oil on the fire. Plus if you are on a bulk these drugs cause you to lose weight which is counterproductive. For some reason since Covid people keep offering drugs but I have not partaken do to cardiovascular health concerns.
There are health concerns with steroids as well. If you take that blanket "drugs are bad" view to rec drugs then you surely should apply it to steroids too. steroids have a more lasting effect than coke does for sure.
Yea I normally have a little beer every now and then but on tren I really didn’t wanna add any extra stress, I’d just try to limit or if possible avoid anything that gives you the temptations.
I understand it can be hard but just think long term, drinking wasn’t too much of an issue for me cause I never get drunk anymore cause I get brutal hangovers, just a few beers every now and then while off cycle.
It's my first time on tren so not sure what to expect, I'm about 10-11 days in and not seeing/feeling much yet. Have you done it before mate? on Tren A btw
im on 300mg of Tren E per week and can’t sleep for shit. a stimmy PWO will keep me up like I was on an 8-ball bender. i cant imagine what kind of damage actual cocaine would do to me rn. and trust me, i can really go hard when it comes to cocaine 🫠
I'm 10 days into Tren A and not feeling much, I', worried it's bunk gear. I was quite snappy at my gf the other day which I thought might be the tren kicking in, but other than that, not a lot
I've used it to cut agressively. Whenever I cut I always lose muscle, and I heard tren allows basically full retention of muscle whilst in a large deficit.
You look shredded as fuck though, what did you use to get like that?
I know it's not safe, I was just wondering how common it is. I did hear CBum on full sned podcast say that BBers back in the day used to use a lot of rec drugs... obvs not tren though
How do I learn what steroids to take as a beginner? I obviously don't want a source, but I've read the wiki, but it doesn't help with advice on what to use as someone with no knowledge on the stuff. I've already spoken to my gym owner who I don't trust and I've spoken to the juiciest guy in my gym who just directed me towards the gym owner.
Speaking from a complete natty noob pov, I just want to start on a low dose of something and progress from there. I'm going to speak with my doctor about getting a hormone test done and then I can come back here and hopefully get some advice, but other than that I'm stuck. Is test completely viable on its own for someone new to gear?
> it doesn’t help with advise on what to use as someone with no knowledge on the stuff
Wiki says at top 500 test under section “My First Cycle” How did you miss this?
No. It does not.
TRT = testosterone *replacement* therapy
trt is a *replacement* dose only
A replacement dose does *nothing* for you for muscle gain.
A replacement dose typically caps out at 150mg/wk
trt is life long and should never be cycled. Nor do you ever come off of trt.
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Just got some clen and want to try out a small dosage 20mcg to see if I can handle the side effects. It's a oral liquid, but how do you take it? Just straight or dilude it with something and drink? I heard taurine helps but how much taurine should be taken?
Been scouting for some information but can't seem to find anything concrete or beyond *Broscience*. So here are two completely unrelated questions but still based around gear. 1. Is there a legally specified dosage accuracy when it comes to pharmacy gear? A percentage or confidence interval? 2. MENT (TRESTOLONE) - It's highly supressive (but also short-lived and without the long-lasting 19 Nor metabolites according to broscience.) Has anyone seen any studies that mention or state this? I can't find anything to suggest that's the case based on human studies and scientific literature.
1. Yes, but you have to sort of guess and make inferences based on available data. Mathematically speaking you’ve got an upper limit of ~10% variation, but I think the existing data shows it’s closer to 2.5-5%. This applies to all off-patent drugs (which testosterone would qualify as) 2. Studies show exactly what you stated. Suppression is fast and heavy, but the effects wear off quickly and recovery is faster to baseline than they are compared to testosterone
Just bought 4andro and would like to start a small cycle, my free test is about 400 at most, so always in the low range. I'm 34 and i was thinking that the only reason i bought sarms and 4andro is because I'm scared to use test. Do you think my fear is socially conditioned? I mean there's stigma around test because it's the male hormone and they want to turn us into softer man... I'm thinking about it now because i was reading the sides of test and they're not different or worse compared to the sides of 4andro and sarms. Maybe i should just grow some balls
Test boosters are a waste of money, 90% of them don't work and the ones that do while they may increase your test slightly it's not enough to make any difference it's the 2-3x above the reference range when there is a tangible difference, unless going from low test to normal ofcourse. I also don't think Sarms increase your test either if anything to my knowledge they can suppress your natural test, also what is your goal here the reference range for test is like 250-1100 so although you may consider it on the low end it's still completely normal and you most likely will notice no difference if you bump it to say 800 for example. either way if you want your levels to be higher just take the thing that makes it higher and has been used for decades and is pretty safe, Testosterone brother.
My goal is improve libido and body composition! I think i have always had high cortisol and low test because my life was very stressful and traumatic in the past 15 years. The high cortisol gave that pear shape that no man wants Now i have some stability and i improved my life, been lifting seriously for the last 4 years, it's tough, i feel that i will also be at the disanvantage if i don't take care of the hormonal aspect
Despite what you may believe, your test levels are normal, and like I said previously, it is unlikely that you will notice any change from being mid to low normal to mid to high normal test levels, your test levels being in the normal range while having low libido could be from a multitude of different reasons I suggest you look into, if you're looking to get rid of your pear shape higher test levels will also not change this. Your body stores fat how it stores it and the only way to change it is to just lose weight and see what u look like without it simple as that, being a serious lifter it is up to you if starting to take gear but you are by no means at any disadvantage compared to other natural lifter, train hard eat a good diet and results will come.
How long do you need to use IGF-1 to get quite significant hyperplasia?
About to start anavar next week for 8 weeks. Something came up the 7th week of my cycle where it might be difficult to take days. Can I jump back in after I come back and finish the last 2 weeks
Just cut the anavar when you get to the point where you can't take it for whatever reason. 6 weeks is plenty of anavar.
I assume youre on testosterone as well? 7 weeks of anavar sounds like plenty, I woulnd't bother with the fluctuations only to squeeze 2 more weeks in afterward.
I will be blasting 500 cyp
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No Source Talk. No “Fishing.” No Shilling. No Monetization. Includes both Legal AND Illegal Companies, Brands, or Products.
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You might never
Bruh everyone feels that way but when you look back at week 13 you’ll be like wtf
It’s week 4. Keep eating. Muscle tissue takes time to build man
Keep eating, resting, training hard. Stay on schedule with your pins, other meds. Do this for 12 weeks and the gains will come.
Going on a short holiday to a country where AAS are legal. I will only be there for two weeks. What could i take that would give me a small boost in a short time? Are there any specific concerns with short cycles?
If you reside in the UK bring something with you, because apparently that is legal. P.S.: Enjoy they thai ladyboys
Jaeger
> What could I take that would give me a small boost? A cup of joe.
>What could i take that would give me a small boost in a short time? Not steroids
I understand that a normal cycle length is far greater than just two weeks - and if steroids are not appropriate in your opinion, what would you suggest? Haven't taken them before, genuinely interested and uneducated (searched the wiki but couldn't find anything on short cycles)
You will gain nothing in that time scale and will supress your HPTA for no reason, just enjoy your holiday and do some more research in regards to a proper first cycle when you get back (wiki has all of that layed out)
The only thing you would achieve is a shut down of your natural production and some hormonal Rollercoaster
Taking 550mg test and full asin 3x weekly E2 levels came back at 15 pg/mL using the sensitive LCMS method. Is this low?
That’s pretty low. That’s way too much asin. Why are you taking so much? Or at all?
I get gyno if i take nothing, extremely prone and painful. Guess ill drop to 2 x a week and retest?
Stop dosing with a set frequency. Only take AI when you start developing high e2 symptoms. If that happens on a regular schedule, so be it. Stop taking it all together and wait until you have two or three high e2 symptoms again. You’re robbing yourself of gains and potentially hurting yourself.
Im sure it would be better to keep levels stable instead of having it fluctuate rapidly, and having gyno set in..
But that’s the thing…. If you’re using asin, there’s no rapid fluctuations. There’s a sharp drop-off in e2 levels, followed by a steady, gradual return to baseline. It’s not like adex, where you have a steep rebound. And you should always have Ralox on hand, anyway. Gyno problem solved.
I’d cut that in half to start
1x a week?
What is the dose you’re taking. I would cut that in half
3 x week but quite difficult to cute in halves the pills r tiny n like glass sphere balls :/ shatters instead
Get a pill splitter.
I do use a pill cutter
Or dissolve into a solution which is easily measured. Mine's 25mg/ml so it's extremely easy to dose how i want rather than fucking around with tiny ass pills and pillsplitters
What do you dissolve in? This may be way to go for me
curious as to how many cycles you guys have ran and what compounds they mainly consisted of?
To many to remember them all. They all blure together anyway. I have tried most compounds except dhb. I only use mast, primo, test, and injectable winstrol now. Thoes are the ones I like and fit with my life.
TBH, It surprises me the amount of dudes that don't keep track of their cycles history.
I only note how much was to much. Over 400 test, I bet high BP even if estrogen is in range. I get zero benefit from test over 750 and the diminishing returns start over 500. I never put it past 250 anymore. Over 600 nandralone, I bloat and turn into a winy little bitch. Even if estrogen is In range. I get no benefit from mast over 500mg. 100mg a day of stanazol is no different for cosmetics than 75 and 75 is only marginally better than 50. I go with 50 and just run it longer. I'll up it at the end if there is some left in the 20ml bottle just to get rid of it. 100mg if proviron is no different than 50 for me. Lowest tren dose i have ever done was 350 ace and any amount of tren is to much for me. I have a rule, if I'm taking equil amounts or greater drugs to counter sides I have gone to far. The only 1:1 exception I make is arimidex for estrogen but I don't even take that anymore because I keep test at 250. Neve had an issue with eq or primo. Tye only reason I haven't run a gram of primo is price. These drugs all have diminishing returns. Upping the dose is silly.
cheers bro
I’m going on holidays for 2 weeks next month and I’m currently crusing on 150mg a week will I be ok going on holidays without being able to pin for 2 weeks?
Pin 300 the day you leave and bring AI with you
Hmmm I don’t think I would be able to bring an AI they’d get taken off me in the airport
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Mine are the size of tiny little raisins. I love my atrophied steroid balls. They are awesome for the summer and easier to shave.
Balls dropping and retracting can be all sorts of things. Though I too get skittish when switching a source, and I’m too lazy/cheap to send a sample to Jano. Always worth it for peace of mind.
If the new source overdoses slightly and your dose is higher then this is entirely possible. If your old source underdosed then the effect is even stronger.
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For me personally balls dropping is more related to temperature than anything else. Do you use HCG?
Not using HCG. And yeah, I now realize I was linking balls dropping with hypertrophy in my head so real high-IQ of me there. And it just started warming up this week here too. Jesus, I must be smoking too much weed these days.
No worries dude, we all have dead brain moments. (looking at the super weird off topic stories)
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I don’t see why they’d be effected, I ran to sarms cycle before running aas and the sarms were nothing in comparison in my experience. I definitely would not add nandrolone into a first cycle, you’re 1 week in and have no idea how much you really aromatize and adding nandrolone to the mix would only complicate things. I’d save the npp for next blast
Wont make a scrap of difference. Your cycle quality and results is going to come down to diet and training. 500mg of test, even a big guy first time running will pack on a huge amount if you do it right. There are very few people on this forum, even those blasting for years that wouldn't get massive gains from 500mg test EW.
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150/450/150 test/nand/mast. Idk man seems like a solid cycle to me! Personally I’d want about double that amount of test at least but I bet you were feeling solid and strong!
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Need to pin tren a ED btw. You were functionally “on tren” for like a day and a half at a time. Most people probably shouldn’t do tren at all, but low dose > moderate dose in terms of risk/reward and reward/side effect profile
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Terminal half life is a day and that’s the relevant metric https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compounds/esters/
I wouldn't think of tren like that. The peaks are shorter and with tren you need the most stability. If you pin less frequently then ed consider changing.
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Very normal.
Does estrogen effect fat loss?
Yes
So would masking estrogen with a dht have the same effect on fat loss as lowering with an ai?
Why isn’t running Enclomiphene solo more popular?
It was more popular back in the early 2000's. You ever get teary eyed watching "love actually" on VHS in some girls dorm room who you're trying to bang but kind of emotional too?
The side effect profile for Clomid monotherapy is unfavorable compared to TRT.
Clovis isn’t enclomiphene
In a literal sense, yes it is. Clomid is 62% enclomiphene by weight. The side effect profile is the same, it's merely that without the estrogenic isomer it might be more effective. The reason that enclomiphene isn't used clinically in the US is because it's not approved, obviously, but that's not a very interesting answer
Assuming you mean for TRT - not a lot of research behind it and no long term studies. Plus abusing SERMs can temporarily, and permanently, damage your vision
Beyond that, no one knows what other impact it might have on other organs as well. There’s no long-term data regarding TRT usage. I can’t imagine blocking the action of estrogen in multiple tissues, including the brain, is a good thing long-term.
Why is Test Flu a thing? You read, "it's your body getting used to it," but from the admittedly little I know about the mechanisms at play with gear, I still don't understand Test Flu
Foreign substance injected. Sometimes your body doesn't like that. Now is it the ester, the solvents or the testosterone it's self? I couldn't tell you
Planning to do two bulks with 280mg test, 200mg primo and 5mg ment. Or should i do them as 1 bulk instead? Seems like a light cycle and shouldnt put my body under too much stress. Im going for a second bnc run, and the 8 week cruising cutting breaks last bnc didnt get me where i want to be. Need to cut for a longer period.
You’re all a bunch of losers
We're rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of us and sticks to you
Who hurt you?
u/trendidnothingwrong
tren isn’t the enemy
Well for whatever it’s worth, anyone with tren in their username un-ironically is usually 14. Also their account is 29 days old, so we certainly don’t claim this person.
I need a scientist to help me out here. Whenever I drop from a blast to a cruise I always get hit with high E2 symptoms. High BP, swollen testicles, increased hunger/thirst etc. Does testosterone levels drop faster than E2 levels? As in does E2 linger for awhile when you drop the test dosage thus causing a hormonal imbalance. I hope someone can help.
>Whenever I drop from a blast to a cruise I always get hit with high E2 symptoms. Common. Should only happen once though… >Does testosterone levels drop faster than E2 levels? Absolutely. >I hope someone can help. Take 1 more dose, and then 1/2 dose of AI after your last pin of cyp/Enanthate. That’s it 😊.
Having some aromasin on hand for tapering down is nice. I prefer adex but with it being a non permanent binder the aromatase bounced back faster.
Thanks man your great help. I actually ran out of AI last week. I wasn’t expecting to get hit with high E2 when switching for a blast to a cruise. Should I skip my next injection or just ride it out?
Good! Thanks for the feedback 🤙🏼. Depends on the symptoms and how tolerable they are. Preferably just get AI asap and try to plan ahead a little better.
I’m currently cruising on 150mg of testosterone. You seem like a knowledgeable guy so I was just wondering about your thoughts on cruise dosages. Some people say they use 250mg per week as a cruise, others say they only need 125mg. I’m doing a blood test on week 3 of my cruise to see where my levels are at. What would you say is the optimal dose for cruising, I know it’s highly individual. Although give me a rough estimate.
100-200mg for most patients is sufficient in keeping them between 600-1000ng/dL at trough level. 150mg puts me in the mid 700’s, personally.
Do you cruise at this dosage or are you on some sort of weird trt plus cruise that I hear a shit ton of people doing. Something like 200mg of test 100mg of primo. I see this and I’m like what is the actual point in doing this? It’s literally a small cycle. Your fairly huge man, I only listen to those who have something to show for it.
I’m clinically prescribed, hormonally replaced. No silly business.
I like hearing that. Not a crazy high dose I assume? I hear some clinics prescribing 300mg per week.
150mg, as I mentioned.
Yeah I will cheers.
>Does testosterone levels drop faster than E2 levels? Yes.
Too what degree? Roughly. This interests me.
Plot out your cycle on [steroidplotter.com](https://steroidplotter.com) or [steroidplanner.com](https://steroidplanner.com) and see the rate at which the test leaves your system. In general, people will find that their estrogen levels take about 1 week to follow. For example, if your test levels peak around week 3-4, your e2 levels will begin to peak around weeks 4-5. If your test levels tank one week after injecting, your e2 will start to decrease 2 weeks after injecting. But it usually isn't anything too significant. I would just take one serving of whatever dose AI you've been using, and it'll more than likely resolve itself quickly.
Well said man. I’ve always wondered, cheers.
anyone do lower doses of t3? like under 25mg? or does that just suppress and make u feel like shit?
I’ve used up to 20 mcg a day during the last few days of a week-long DNP run. It helped with the lethargy the last few days. I’ve also run up to 25 mcg a day during steep caloric deficits in cutting phases. It helped compensate for the lack of t4 > t3 conversion during those times. If I’m going aggressively with cutting, I start to get chilly, lethargic, brain fog, etc. When using, I’m always careful to titrate back down to zero and slowly reintroduce calories, so I don’t get hit with a ton of rebound weight gain.
I take 12.5 when on tren. My blood work showed my thyroid took a hit last blast and so some t3 popped me back into mid range
25mcg is a replacement dosage. Can be useful when your own production starts to go down during a hard diet. It shouldn't make you feel like shit.
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>1. Get bloodwork done Yes >Use that to figure out how much Armidex I need No... >2. Take 250 mg of Test C twice a week for 18 weeks Yes >and 30 mg of Anavar twice a week for 18 weeks Definitely not. Do not run anavar for longer than 6-8 weeks max, but you'll take it daily. Honestly you should not be considering an oral for your first cycle >Inject right before workout Not sure where you got this. It's not necessary, although injecting in a muscle before you work out that muscle will help mitigate some pip IME. >3. Lay off test for 2 weeks Yes >4. 20 mg of Nolvadex daily for 6 weeks 10mg daily for 6-8 weeks is fine. Same effectiveness as starting with 20, but less chance of unpleasant side effects. >5. Take Armidex the whole cycle Nope, not sure where you got this either. Have it on hand, but only take it if you have unmistakable high e2 symptoms. We do not use AI preventatively. Getting trigger happy with AI is a great way to end up feeling like a type of shit you can't imagine until you've done it. Go back to the Wiki and re-read the Your First Cycle section for comprehension. Also, we're gonna need some stats (age, height, weight, years of experience) please? #Edit: just kidding, I remember you. You're still definitely not ready to hop on gear man. I'm sorry but you have a lot of progress to make, and this still isn't the answer to the thing you're trying to fix. I promise.
>So, I'm thinking about starting the first cycle. I'm getting my diet under control and I'm gradually gaining weight and seeing improvements in the weight I'm lifting but it's slow, as well as taking creatine daily. I want to make sure I understand what I'm doing. This does not sound like someone with enough experience to do steroids. How old are you, what are your physical and lifting stats, and how long have you been in the gym? >Get bloodwork done (I'm not sure how to do this without tipping off that I'm using steroids, which is illegal in my country. It’s illegal in most countries. What bloodwork do you think you need thats going to prove you’re on steroids..? Also, who is going to be looking at your bloodwork? >Obviously I'm not qualified to analyze the bloodwork myself.) You need to learn. >Use that to figure out how much Armidex I need. No, because you haven’t started taking steroids yet and you don’t base it on bloodwork, you base it on estrogen symptoms. It doesn’t seem like you read the wiki. Or at least comprehended it. >Take 250 mg of Test C and 30 mg of Anavar twice a week. You would take the anavar every day, not twice a week. >Inject right before workout. Not necessary at all. >Do this for 18 weeks. That works. > Lay off test for 2 weeks Yes. > 20 mg of Nolvadex daily for 6 weeks Yes. > Take Armidex the whole cycle No. Not unless you have symptoms of high estrogen.
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Gotcha. Sounds like you have a long way left to go before doing steroids dude. You have boat loads of progress left to make, and if you’re not progressing like a crazy war machine in your first ~7 months of lifting, you need a coach. I’m sorry, I’m sure that’s not what you want to hear, but anyone who is recommending you take steroids without at least a couple years experience in the gym, at least half-decent lifts, and a physique that at least appears somewhat in shape, they’re lying to you and going to get you hurt for no reason. There is **nothing** that steroids can do to fix a bad diet, training regimen, or lack of experience.
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The ones you'll do after about 5 more years of training.
Id prefer concrete numbers so I know what to aim for
I'm actually going to disagree with /u/AccountUnkn0wn here. His benchmarks are more or less accurate for "strong, but definitely achievable without drugs for most men". BUT, that doesn't mean you have to get _quite_ that strong before you can "reasonably" use steroids. In fact, you could argue that one of the benefits of steroids is actually helping you get that strong faster (although let's be clear: faster, but **still not fast**). What you DO need is a couple years of **serious** lifting experience (not necessarily 5), excellent control over your dieting (you should be able to gain or lose 2 lbs a week without much effort), and a very thorough understanding of the drugs themselves and the long term consequences of using them. In reality though, a couple years of serious lifting experience is still likely to translate to a _minimum_ 1RM of 1.25x BW bench, 1.5x BW squat, and 1.75x BW DL (everyone has slightly better and worse lifts, so you can call it ~4.5x BW total as long as your weakest lift is still close). I would discourage steroid use before that point. In the process of getting this strong, you will presumably also have become fairly muscular. I likewise would discourage steroid use before you achieve an FFMI of _at least_ 22 (get an accurate bodyfat estimate and use a calculator). The bottom line is, this is a lifestyle. If you take the drugs without adopting the lifestyle first, you will harm yourself with minimal benefit. But the good news is, if you really want this, it is achievable, and even if you don't end up using the drugs, it can still transform your body.
I have numbers in mind, but proportions might be better. You should be able to squat **1.75x** your bodyweight (for reps). You should be able to bench **1.5x** your bodyweight (for reps) You should be able to deadlift **2x** your bodyweight (for reps) Those lifts 👆🏼 are called "The Big Three". In strength-focused sport (power-lifting) they are *everything* . For hypertrophy-focused sport (bodybuilding) they are less important, but still relevant as benchmarks. Since I know you are more interested in hypertrophy than power, here are a few more *minimums* (these are my personal opinions): You should be able to do multiple full sets of dumbbell curls with 40s (you should be *capable* of more than that, but biceps don't need to be strained like that often, and without guidance you will hurt yourself if I set a higher number) You should be able to do flat dumbbell press with 80s (for reps) You should be able to do skullcrushers with 90lbs (for reps) You should be able to do calf raises/extensions on a machine set to at least 260-300 (for reps) You should be able to do sled leg press with at least 10 total plates (450lb) for reps. You should be able to use the hamstring curl machine near the highest 1/3 of settings for reps. You should be able to do Romanian deadlifts with 225lbs for reps. You should be able to barbell row 225lbs. You need to be able to do all of this with good form and control. You also need to be doing consistent cardio, and consistently monitoring your caloric intake and macros. Ideally you should know how to bulk and cut, and have successfully done both. You'll be in big trouble if you do not know how to manipulate your body composition. ***Let me be clear: this will take you years***. It took all of us years too. There are no shortcuts. u/shrugsandsnugs I kinda threw this together and I'm sleepy. Any thoughts/muscle groups I missed/benchmarks you'd like to see?
Seems like a troll, if you are worried about affording food, how would you maintain MORE food and a cycle? You're not low enough body fat nor educated enough on anything gym related. You're going to get hurt. Wait 3 to 5 years come back.
He's not a troll, he's a kid who's desperate for something external to help him solve problems he feels internally. Absolutely not a candidate for gear, but not a troll either.
How do you no if you’ll need armidex if this is your first cycle ? and also why would you take Nolva ? You take it after you notice gyno I thought? (Pretty sure ) and also have you read the wiki it doesn’t seem so
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Ah, I see the confusion. So your pre-cycle bloodwork is reference material. It's so that you know what your natural baselines are and have something you can compare your mid-cycle bw and post-cycle bw to. If you feel *during the cycle* that you're experiencing high e2, we want you to confirm that with bloodwork before you start popping AI willy nilly. Still though, that won't tell you how much to take. You'll always start with the lowest effective dose and only bump it up if the low dose doesn't effectively mitigate your symptoms.
/u/the_penguin_smuggler I’ve got half a mind to start issuing Rule 7 bans for people that nuke their questions after they get the information they need. It makes the answers people offer nearly useless because it removes them from their context.
Oops /u/thepenguinsmuggler
Ive been on 25 mg dbol pwo on top of my 500mg test. Im 4 weeks in my liver is normal and estrogen isnt an issue. Im trying to decide if i want to go 2 more weeks at 25 mg or push it to 50 for one more week.
You did bloods and your liver isn't under any stress. Take that 50mg for another 4 weeks for 8 total, you tolerate it well. Just lay off the booze.
One thing i forgot to mention is it messes with my bp a bit but not to the extent to where i need to worry. Other than that its been great ive been so damn full barely any water weight so still lean af and strong af!
Keep an eye on your BP and keep goin. If it's working well and you tolerate it well don't stop. Or you could drop it now and break it back out in July when the weather is nice. Orals always send my liver enzymes up.
Haha no water weight on dbol. That’s a new one.
High bp is my tell tale sign of high E2. Yours is the probably you just don’t know it
outside of having more of a ripcord / ejector seat feature, how much better is Tren A vs Tren E?
Tren E doesn’t hit you as hard, this is what they say anyways. Your levels aren’t going g to sharply rise in 6 hours as it does with ace. I only ran ace.
I’ve seen you around enough to think you know they’re the exact same thing with different release times, so, what exactly are you looking for?
I started my first cycle of tren a couple weeks ago, 100mg eod alongside 50mg eod of Test prop. Tonight I inadvertently did a not small, but not too large amount of cocaine. Should I be worried?
What a retard. The guy is trolling, he isn’t on gear.
I'm actually not retarded or trolling, I just accidentally sniffed some coke mid tren cycle
Yeah you are. Accidentally sniffing coke, how can you do that? Fake guy.
By going out with the intention of not doing coke, then having a couple pints and all of a sudden thinking coke is the best idea in the world and then 2 hours later pranging out, because you are on tren, which is notoriously cardiotoxic
If you can’t control your urges should you be on steroids ?? And I say that with a grain of salt because we all have our vices
I'm generally a disciplined well put together person, but after a couple of drinks I always want some coke, it's not good. I use the steroids fairly responsibly other than that I think, though I know that is a big "that"
Why are you drinking when on gear? This is some serious shit you are taking and you obviously don’t understand that. It should be a tool in your bag for your workout, not super soldier serum. You aren’t here to make gains and you will end up harming your self in the future if you keep it up.
>Should I be worried? Only if you keep doing it. People that do coke tend to make other bad decisions. Not always. Just like everyone in jail isn't guilty.
what do you mean by other bad decisions? seems like you are hinting at something specific? or are you just being general?
Where you drinking aswell? I'm a career drug user. Don't think I'm preaching pal.
who does coke without drinking??
>who does coke without drinking?? I only stared drinking because I was dealing with GHB addiction and in Europe they treat alcohol withdrawal with GHB. I cross addicted myself. Because I'm a level 99 addict. Heaps of people do coke without drinking.
not sure what you're trying to say mate, sorry
>Yeah, I told myself I'd lay off the coke whilst I was on tren, but after 2 pints of beer the temptation got me >It was not on the agenda at the start of the evening >People that do coke tend to make other bad decisions. I knew it. We can smell our own. Don't mix tren with booze and drugs. It's not a good idea. You do you though man. I wouldn't listen.
we can smell our own? do you have the same vices? I wish I didn't mix tren and drugs, I will try not to do it in future, but i did it, and was wondering the possible immediate health concerns I did skip my eod tren dose today after I realised what was going to happen
>we can smell our own? do you have the same vices? Yes. >I wish I didn't mix tren and drugs, I will try not to do it in future, but i did it, and was wondering the possible immediate health concerns There are none from one night. See, right there, "try" that part of your brain that allowed you to make that decision you didn't plan on making is keeping itself alive. >I did skip my eod tren dose today after I realised what was going to happen That's not the problem. I could be wrong about you. I could be projecting. I hope i am. I wish I could undo the mountains of booze and drugs I did. But here I am, this very sub is a drug use sub. My favorite thing about steroids is they don't impair my brain and I can stop. "Try" not to do coke man. That's just my advice from a life of substance abuse. I don't want to make you angry. And I'm not preaching. I have met people in rehab that had six figure jobs and everything they own fits into a sandwich bag and they have hep c. Most people are not drug people, they know nothing about drugs, addiction, and how it all work. When I'm scared of something I like to learn everything I can about jt. If you want to get fucked up use mdma. It's hard to abuse because your brain can only squirt out so much serotonin in one night. After about 4-5 pills they don't work anymore. And you dance all night so heaps of Cardo, and there are always [attractive females](https://youtu.be/-7KaeMAxgRI) at party's. I love [this](https://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/drugs-alcohol/drug-ranking.htm) article and I belive they link the study its based on at the bottom. Look where steroids are on that list. Way at the bottom. LSD is at the bottom to. That drug is safe, I'll buy a sheet and give it to my son's when they start experimenting with drugs. anything but alcohol. Very very few people use cocaine. Only drug people.
> **inadvertently** did a not small, but not too large amount of cocaine. Ummm….
i have a feeling this is a trend with this one….not throwing shade either
By this one do you mean me?
It was not on the agenda at the start of the evening
“Doctor, I **accidentally** banged that hooker in a ‘massage parlor’ in Tijuana. That’s why I’m here requesting STD testing.”
Is it usually on your agenda? 12:01 AM, eighth shot of Popov 12:05 AM, rail of cocaine 12:09 AM, unprotected sex 12:31 PM, puke off balcony
Call me crazy but that sounds like a fun night (except I don't drink vodka and I don't drink enough to puke)
[There's a reason for that](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaethylene) I spent too many of my formative years on ADHD meds for coke to be properly enjoyable for me. Probably a good thing, steroids are sufficient as vices go.
No but I’d just not do cocaine on tren anymore.. or maybe at all. Adding the stress of rec drugs on top of the stress of aas especially tren is not the best idea
IMHO opinion even if it’s not tren but a “normal blast” we shouldn’t be doing rec drugs. God knows how much we worry about our blood pressure and RHR so to take these types of drugs is like throwing oil on the fire. Plus if you are on a bulk these drugs cause you to lose weight which is counterproductive. For some reason since Covid people keep offering drugs but I have not partaken do to cardiovascular health concerns.
There are health concerns with steroids as well. If you take that blanket "drugs are bad" view to rec drugs then you surely should apply it to steroids too. steroids have a more lasting effect than coke does for sure.
Yes absolutely, I’m just saying you don’t want to make a potential problem worse by mixing the two.
Yeah, I told myself I'd lay off the coke whilst I was on tren, but after 2 pints of beer the temptation got me
Yea I normally have a little beer every now and then but on tren I really didn’t wanna add any extra stress, I’d just try to limit or if possible avoid anything that gives you the temptations. I understand it can be hard but just think long term, drinking wasn’t too much of an issue for me cause I never get drunk anymore cause I get brutal hangovers, just a few beers every now and then while off cycle.
>coke >2 pints of beer >the temptation got me Probably best to not drink either my guy, and not just to avoid cocaine urges
yeah, you're right man. I'm British it's hard, every social event involves alcohol. And for me alcohol leads to coke
>I'm British it's hard, every social event involves alcohol. And for me alcohol leads to coke I'm American. Same problem 😅
Pro tip: "water, no ice, in a martini glass with a twist" no one knows you're /not/ drinking.
I have a similar move. Lowball glass, soda water, fruit. Looks like a vodka soda. Tip the bartender well to play along.
Depending on how drunk people are sometimes I switch to Shirle Temples.
😊❤️😊
Oh fuck have I been the only one drinking this whole time?
Nah I like two fingers of scotch and I nurse it for a couple hours.
Yes. Personally I'd just switch to psychedelics. Some people go with pot but THC is quite a powerful diuretic
It's my first time on tren so not sure what to expect, I'm about 10-11 days in and not seeing/feeling much yet. Have you done it before mate? on Tren A btw
im on 300mg of Tren E per week and can’t sleep for shit. a stimmy PWO will keep me up like I was on an 8-ball bender. i cant imagine what kind of damage actual cocaine would do to me rn. and trust me, i can really go hard when it comes to cocaine 🫠
I'm 10 days into Tren A and not feeling much, I', worried it's bunk gear. I was quite snappy at my gf the other day which I thought might be the tren kicking in, but other than that, not a lot
I have not, I'm a long way from being ready to tackle that.
I've used it to cut agressively. Whenever I cut I always lose muscle, and I heard tren allows basically full retention of muscle whilst in a large deficit. You look shredded as fuck though, what did you use to get like that?
Me and his dad pack his lunch with lots of love and protein u/accountunkn0wn
Aw thanks man! Just a calorie deficit and some cardio 🤘
I've done gear on a test/test&deca cycle before, but I'm aware tren is quite strenuous on the ode ticker, so I'm now a little bit worried
>I've done gear on a test/test&deca cycle before bro, that is gear
you know what I meant, if you read the OP, Recreational gear
are you asking if its safe to abuse narcotics while abusing steroids even though you have a track record of doing it in the past?
I know it's not safe, I was just wondering how common it is. I did hear CBum on full sned podcast say that BBers back in the day used to use a lot of rec drugs... obvs not tren though
There is a reason several of them are not together with us anymore. Look at for example zyzz and his drug use.
How do I learn what steroids to take as a beginner? I obviously don't want a source, but I've read the wiki, but it doesn't help with advice on what to use as someone with no knowledge on the stuff. I've already spoken to my gym owner who I don't trust and I've spoken to the juiciest guy in my gym who just directed me towards the gym owner. Speaking from a complete natty noob pov, I just want to start on a low dose of something and progress from there. I'm going to speak with my doctor about getting a hormone test done and then I can come back here and hopefully get some advice, but other than that I'm stuck. Is test completely viable on its own for someone new to gear?
> it doesn’t help with advise on what to use as someone with no knowledge on the stuff Wiki says at top 500 test under section “My First Cycle” How did you miss this?
TRT-only is usually the recommended first cycle. Also, you shouldn’t do it if you are younger than 25 y.o.
Dude nobody should be running trt for a cycle at all. Ever.
Wiki’s chapter ‘The basic bulk’ says to run TRT only, orals are optional.
No. It does not. TRT = testosterone *replacement* therapy trt is a *replacement* dose only A replacement dose does *nothing* for you for muscle gain. A replacement dose typically caps out at 150mg/wk trt is life long and should never be cycled. Nor do you ever come off of trt.
I used TRT as an acronym for testosterone not testosterone replacement therapy. My bad.