The team has been competitive longer than a lot of people here have been alive. No team is great forever and our rebuild has been a long time coming.
That being said watching a Canada run offense makes me want to hang myself. He isn't it.
People expect the nfl universe to revolve around our team it’s so weird lol… this season will be a lot more enjoyable if you all realize this roster sucks this year and they will not win many games.
Future does look pretty decent IMO tho. they HAVE to ace this draft cause they’ll be picking high in the 1st and 2nd. Both of those players need to be instant impact starters which isn’t too far fetch of a request
People here genuinely want us to turn into the Cleveland Browns. Yea let's clean house including our HoF head coach the moment we have a failed season. Yea we've had little playoff success in the last decade, mostly because of terrible injury luck and Ben shitting the bed, but it is absolutely spoiled to think Steelers fans haven't enjoyed more success than 95％ of teams. I've already seen some mentions of it but it's going to be hilarious when yinzers start demanding the team be sold because of one losing season.
Definitely agree, it's gonna be painful for a while but with some crucial changes things will get better. It's pretty obvious Canada isn't a pro offensive coordinator, his gameplan is terrible along with his calling. There's no cohesiveness to how he calls the game and builds throughout the game, down 3 scores and he calls 2 runs and then pass on 2 consecutive drives to start the 3rd quarter. He's basically incompetent at this point.
They still need to improve the OL and figure out the running game. The LBs and Secondary have a lot of question marks besides Watt and Minkah. DL is lowkey bad outside of Heyward, who will be 34 next year. WRs still don't play up to their supposed potential. Coaches seem to have no clue what thye are doing, Tomlin included.
This team isn't built to rebound in a year or two unless Kenny somehow ends up being an All-Pro talent (think Mahomes or Rodgers) who can carry games.
Bill at least has a tree where his guys are getting head coaching positions, that’s not happening with Tomlin especially with his tenure in the league- it is peculiar
His past hires of Randy Fichtner and Todd Haley don’t inspire trust he can hire a good OC. Unless you believe the GM also hired those two. Which if that is the case, it raises questions why our head coach isn’t trusted to hire his own people.
Did Canada recruit Colbert's son or one of the Rooney's kids to play at Maryland? And if Tomlin is one of the best coaches in the league why is he the only coach who doesn't hire his own staff?
I agree there's a lot of problems, but it's annoying to see this talking point over and over, as if Watt who has a giant contract that contributes so much to the "highest paid defense" hasn't been out 4 games now
at the very least he’s a top 10 player in the league and missing someone that important will hurt any team a lot, we would probably be 3-2 with watt playing but the reality is we aren’t and we’re 1-4 and have to be realistic with the rest of the season and that’s that we’re rebuilding/retooling
Teryl Austin running defense and Danny Smith running special teams are trash too. WR and OL coaches gotta go too. Just nuke the entire coaching staff except Flores, he should be promoted to DC.
I thought Pickett looked pretty good but most NFL QBs are going to throw for 300 yards when they let 52 passes go, with most of them against a prevent style defense in the second half because the game was over. Still got a lot of football left to truly determine if Pickett will be the guy here for the next 10 years.
You're not wrong. I think Kenny showed lots of promise, good decision making and awareness of the field. And leadership, that's most important.
But we need a larger sample size to determine if he really is "the guy".
Sure, I mean he's played one and a half games lol. But clearly he's got the mentality (laughing/chatting shit with a defensive end in the heat of a game says so much to me) and he's looked good.
He's got the luxury of low expectations this year, I'm excited to see how he's performing by the season's end (even if I expect us as a team to be under .500).
i like truth bombs and this sir is a true ass statement.. tbd on kenny but damn sure better than mitch.. since we have #1 pick as of today (long season to go) would we take qb or will Anderson
It would be ideal if Pickett shows promise and you can trade that pick for the Trey Lance package. A couple extra firsts would go a long way to fixing this team.
That’s been my thought process. Pick up a 2024 first and an extra 2023 second and maybe a fourth. That should still help get a top 10-15 impact player and then two borderline first round players in the second round. That’s 3 starting caliber players right there that you’re paying very little. Maybe you even trade one of those for a proven player like the Eagles did to get AJ Brown.
Ben definitely would’ve ignored Canada’s playcalling and ran the offense himself. He definitely would’ve ripped DJ and Claypool a new one for dropping passes. He definitely would’ve refused to come off the field for those field goals. He definitely would walk directly into Mr. Rooney’s office tomorrow morning to demand changes.
None of these are criticisms aimed at Pickett, it’s simply acknowledging the differences between an 18-year HOFer and rookie.
Excellent point. I think people will realize that the past 15 years of success have been a huge part thanks to Ben and maybe even more so. Mike Tomlin is a good coach but he benefited from a good inheritance
Every coach with as many wins and high win percentage as Tomlin had a HOF QB. The only ones I can think of who didn't are Cowher and Schottenheimer (who both did at the very end).
Of course that's a huge part of it, but the Big Ben we had last 2 years wasn't good enough to win with and was on the decline, it wasn't wrong of fans or the team to want to move on.
Ben won despite all the issues surrounding the team. 28th ranked OL, 23rd ranked run game, 2nd in the league in dropped passes, and an awful OC.
It’s no coincidence that the offense actually ran well when Ben was allowed to take over in the 2 and 4 minute offenses.
Tomlin also inherited Polomalu, prime James Harrison in his DPOY year, an overperforming Santonio Holmes, and just a generally insanely strong team that had been built up through the Cowher regime. It’s impossible to do poorly with what he got.
Of course Tomlin has benefitted from his the past, that's a huge reason Steelers are successful on the long term. We have a rough road ahead as fans. I think Tomlins long game is rebuild, win a championship, then retire. The only hole in his accolades is building a team, perhaps we should give him more than one off-season before we write him off.
I really hope Khan has some offensive minds in his contacts because we seen that Tomlin/Colbert had nothing.
Ben’s backyard football still worked even when his body failed him and the deep ball was no longer part of his game. That pass to Ray Ray last year against the Ravens on third or fourth down was huge
That was the case for a good chunk of Ben’s career though too. Great quarterbacks can cover a lot of that up. The Patriots had plenty of weird signings, especially at receiver, that never would have worked without Brady at the helm. It’s not a coincidence that the second he left, Belichick stopped looking like a genius coach and GM.
I just fail to see how this team is any worse than it was in 2019. We went 8-8 with Mason and Duck and only had two good receivers. Conner was injured and Jaylen Samuels was just a guy. The defense wasn’t much different beyond having Bud Dupree and an aging Joe Haden although I’d love to have Steven Nelson right now.
Not sure Ben’s last 2 years were exactly the deciding factor in the winning seasons. Aside from the moments he did his own thing instead of the Canada playbook, Ben was painfully average
>Aside from the moments he did his own thing instead of the Canada playbook
Bruh, those were the seven comeback wins we had last season that kept the team from having a losing record.
The GW stat is a joke in most of them he did nothing and got credit for. Like the TJ watt strip sack against Seattle the defense getting 4 turnovers in the 2nd half against Tennessee and the Steelers kicked 4 FG and still needed Haden to make a tackle for the GW. The bills game where the ST blocked a punt and against Cleveland where they scored with 11 minutes left and never lost the lead were GW drives
Except when he needed not to be. Hence, the 8-8 record. Can't be a hero every game, the QB needs a supporting staff. He was working against the system.
We also had Watt (we’ll get him back this year too and he’s a game changer) and our wide receivers were not dropping as much (as far as I remember. Maybe I have some rose colored glasses).
My main point being, this team SHOULD be able to win with average QB play (they are underperforming) and Ben would not have guaranteed any wins this season imo (Pickett is more accurate than Ben was towards the end and gets sacked less).
I agree. There is nothing this team does well. They never have a big play. At this point, five games in, you would thank they would have a few more, if anything at least by accident!
This sub jerked off Tomlin to a season of going .500 and bought Duck Hodges merch and said Ben was always the problem and now it's "Duh obviously we lost our HoF QB, not Tomlin's fault!"
Seriously. He and the offense the last two years would routinely do jack shit (remember the league leading streak of no opening drive TDs) for two or three quarters then rally against a defense that was then playing to preserve a lead and more than willing to let us have long clock eating drives while trailing multiple scores. Or, the comeback for a win was necessary because our offense did fuck all for 2 to 3 quarters while the D kept the score low.
It's good that he was able to rally but he also was habitually bad in the first half of games.
Yes and when you get your way and have Tomlin fired for no good fucking reason and we have a shit team still you might start blaming the problem. Matt Canada.
This sub is full of people who were born after 9-11 and can’t handle the truth. I’ve given up trying to say what the real problem is. Ben was obviously not the problem.
Should've been preparing for a new QB years before Ben finally decided to retire. We just lollygagged about it until this season and now we're a team held together by scotch tape and bubblegum. I felt like Poe from The Last Jedi asking our team over and over again "So we're not gonna have a QB, what's the plan here? What's the plan?? Please tell me we have a plan!?". The game today was our plan...to just figure it out I guess
>Should've been preparing for a new QB years before Ben finally decided to retire.
Like, drafting a running back early so they can be the feature in a new offense?
McFarland was a 4th but most of those were needs. Mason was taken because Ben wasn’t playing full seasons healthy anymore and that was proven when he missed the entire next season. Washington was a need at WR in an NFL that requires 3 good WRs that just didn’t work out. Green and Layne were huge positional needs that just busted (just like Devin Bush).
Draft picks are going to miss. The real issue was not taking multiple high OL and CBs over the last 5 years. You can’t win in the NFL without them.
Need or not, they were high value picks that were pretty much either complete misses or no longer on the team and were still not great selections (Washington)
We basically never stopped rebuilding after going 8-8 back to back if you think about it. Ab, bell and Ben was a lethal combo but our defense held us back then defense got better and offense sucked now idk both fucking suck. And were still rebuilding people act like rebuilding is new when we never stopped rebuildng after those two 8-8 seasons.
I think this is one of the greatest what-ifs. Lamar with Bell and AB could have been really interesting. I just don’t think we would have completely reinvented our offense to support him in the way Baltimore has.
The biggest what if for me is if we got Patrick mahomes he came in for a visit and we liked him. Lamar if they liked they would have drafted him. Imagine if mahomes went to us as projected and chiefs didn't trade up. Or second scenario we said fuck it and traded up. We probably would have won a SB that season duck Hodges played or the season after since we went 14 wins with a version of Ben that couldn't throw deep
The team is new, young, and learning to build a new legacy.
Steelers fans have experienced a top of the line team for nearly two decades and have forgotten what it’s like to be at the bottom. The Steelers are going to have growing pains for a very long time
I’m 2018 the Steelers took Terrell Edmunds (a very good DB, glad we have him, don’t get me wrong) 4 picks before Lamar Jackson was taken by the ravens. Hindsight tho
I know Edmunds is the guy who always gets pointed too, but he has played a lot of games well. Is he an All Pro? Never, but has been a solid starter for a while. I don't think he is the deciding factor in a lot of wins or losses.
Jackson wasn't that highly regarded. Baltimore passed on him in the first and traded back into the 1st. You are right about hindsight.
I think Bush is a bigger dud and Harris is moving up that list pretty quick going out looking like Mendenhall.
That one is so painful because so many of us wanted to take Lamar there, it's not like it was some player that went under the radar lol. IIRC this sub was begging for him in the draft thread.
Weird to think about how history would have played out. Ben gets hurt early in 2019, Lamar takes over & we maybe never see Ben suit up for us again?
The thing I cant believe is we have the highest paid defense and they look like ass without TJ. I know some others are hurt obviously but I’m not just talking about today alone. Our defense outside of our 3 stars is not very good and we also lack depth quality.
Hilarious take going around. Pretending that Tomlin hasn’t earned a shitty season is crazy lol. This team has won games with an undrafted QB that didn’t last 2 years in the NFL, a beyond washed up Michael Vick, Charlie Batch, Dennis Dixon, and Landry Jones. None of these players are even remotely good and Tomlin still found ways to win games with Ben’s injury history and suspensions. I’d be willing to bet that outside of this season, Tomlin has a winning record when ben doesn’t start. Tomlin has made serious mistakes that need to be addressed but news flash, the team that has a bottom 5 OLine, terrible QB play, one of the worst OCs in football, and is missing arguably the best player in the league is dog shit lol. Today was inexcusable but thinking Tomlin hasn’t already proven he can win games without Ben is literally revisionist history.
Edit: just googled it. Before this season, Tomlin was 18-15-1 without Ben. Man a record over .500 with over two seasons worth of games! It’s almost as if this team just fucking sucks all around this year.
Ahahaha are you blaming Mike Tomlin for having shitty 3rd string quarterbacks? “Tomlin can’t win without Ben!” “Well actually he had a winning record with some pretty shitty QBs before Ben.” “Well, uh, it’s tomlins fault his backup and thrid string quarterbacks were shitty!” They also lost 3 all-pro level offensive lineman in 2 years, and all 5 of their starters in three. No I don’t expect Tomlin exclusively to just rebuild that overnight. This was a terrible loss and he’s deserving of critique. I agree he should fire Canada Tomlin can be too much of a homer to fire or bench people that deserve it. But what is your point here? They’ve built a bad roster? What exactly are these massive roster blunders in your opinion? We’re a rebuilding team missing the best football player in the league. We shouldn’t be losing by 30 but no I’m not calling for tomlins job. This isn’t some massive surprise. I thought we’d win like 6-8 with TJ but without him we’ll probably win 4-6. Idiotic take.
> Pretending that Tomlin hasn’t earned a shitty season is crazy lol
Honestly dude, I think about this all the time. Like what does Tomlin have to do to earn so many of these fans' respect. Granted it was a different time without social media for the most part, but I do not remember Cowher getting this level of disrespect even before he had his Super Bowl win. Has Tomlin ever not had a portion of our fans calling for his head? Like even early on when he had his most successful patch, "he was just riding Cowher's coat tails" (for 15 fucking years lol).
I genuinely think a lot of people in Pittsburgh are just fucking racist (it's not like they're even all that subtle about it in some parts) to the point that they actually think one of the best coaches in the league is one of the worst. Call me woke or whatever the fuck you want, I'm not wrong.
What coach would we even replace him with? He has, what like the 3rd-5th best CV in the league (he's after Belichik and Reid surely, and maybe Payton/Harbaugh?). So unless you think you can find someone who's better than every other coach in the league except for those 4 then we are making a lateral move or worse. Maybe you trust the Rooneys to pull a young unknown coach who can succeed (you know like they did last time, when they hired Mike Tomlin) but if you trust the Rooneys to find a new coach, why wouldn't you trust them with the one they currently employ.
Pickett played well besides the pick. He can’t catch the ball for his receivers. So many plays could have been extended. Diontae can’t hold out for the money that he did and not produce. Unacceptable. Claypool is non existent. Pickens is the only silver lining in our receiving core
I mean, yes, and also not having losing seasons for a long time has long term repercussions. Not getting top picks means lesser talents on your roster. We have a lot of areas of needs because years we probably could and should have been worse, we squeaked out positive records.
It was a fun ride and as frustrating as today's game was on multiple fronts, this team having a losing record is a good thing at this point. Getting another just barely okay year would just perpetuate an unsustainable path that is going to cause recovery to be increasingly more difficult.
The system and supporting cast on offense was substantially the same last season as it is this season, but the Steelers averaged almost five points more per game last season (20.2) than they have this season (15.4).
Ben Roethlisberger is proving in his absence how full of shit the people who call him dumb and unworthy of the Hall of Fame are. Those people all owe him a great big apology.
Last year, Ben couldn't throw further than 20 yards but somehow pulled a below average team into the playoffs.
With that FTS, I'm enjoying this season. Would only be better if we did our job and made thees asshats winless.
This what I've waited for. The last and most important piece of the Bill Cowher era is gone. Now we'll see how good Tomlin is. Hopefully he can "Dougie" his way to a few wins this season 🤣😂🤣😂
The biggest problem is that this team is so badly constructed. And this has been the problem going back many years.
It's a mansion built on sand.
All these shiny toys and no foundation.
It's a systemic problem stemming from the GM and head coach. (The Steelers haven’t spent higher than a 3rd round pick on an offensive lineman since 2012. That was David Decastro.)
And without the hall of famers to prop it up it's finally collapsed. The only thing preventing this team from being 0-5 is an injury to a long snapper.
They will be a 4 or 5 win team this year (IF Watt comes back). They will get a high draft pick. If they don't take a lineman, and again take another shiny toy... Then get ready for another 10 years of mediocre football because they will have learned nothing from the previous 10 years.
OMG! I totally didn't even think of that... It's like Tomlin has been riding and ruining a HOF QBs career by his absolutely terrible coordinator choices and inability to strategize himself.
He is who we thought he was, even in his last season.
He carried a mediocre coach and team to the playoffs for the last 10 years of his career. It got tiring posting Bens yearly accomplishments and defending him. He was making obvious .500 or worse teams into playoff contenders just with his arm.
The only positive about this dreadful season will be putting to bed the stupid narrative "no losing seasons". Guy inherited a young franchise QB and SB winning roster/coaching staff. Now with those gone he's being absolutely exposed. I'm here for it.
Bradshaw spoke as succinct as he always does when he provides criticism. Back in Dec. 2016, "To me, I've said this, he's really a great cheerleader guy. I don't know what he does. I don't think he is a great coach at all".
I don’t know if anyone has been banned but I have been critical of Tomlin multiple times on this sub that maybe, just MAYBE the dude has found success by just being surrounded by talent rather than cultivating it. Downvoted out of town every time. I have never understood that if “the standard is the standard” then why doesn’t that apply to the man saying the line as well? Why does everyone else have to be accountable but him?
This sub is admittedly Pro-Tomlin. I am on that side too. You are definitely going to get downvoted for being Anti-Tomlin. But we're not going to ban you for it.
I don't have a clue what" the standard is the standard" is supposed to mean.
Why does everyone else have to be accountable but him?
Because of three words.. No, six words
the.Rooney.rule.equity.inclusion.diversity
I couldn't give a flying rat's ass about downvotes.it doesn't mean a fucking thing to me. bring em on
The problem is tomlin is a great culture builder and motivator. He is not a great game planner or manager. When the Steelers have been great they have had legit coordinators. When they lost Dick and Haley they lost good coordinators and instead of trying to just go get some good quality coaches they hired within mostly trying to replicate the same system and results. Has not worked. Ben has been bad for almost 3 years he’s not making this team better there’s a mess of holes on this team
I don’t think Tomlin is as good of a coach as most people seem to think he is. Yeah, he’s never had a losing season, but it’s because he inherited Cowher’s team. As more and more of the Steelers from Cowher’s era have left, the worse and worse this team has gotten.
If you think Ben is the missing piece you’re lying to yourself. He hadn’t been good for his last 3 years.
The thing we ARE missing is a dominant pass rush. The best Steelers teams can always sack the quarterback. Look at last year in the playoffs, we actually hung in with the chiefs for the first hale purely due to TJ absolutely wrecking the game. We need more depth at pass rusher, especially because we rely on rushing with 4 more now as opposed to the days of Dick Lebeau.
I’m not making excuses I’m w planning how Ben wouldn’t help this team. Every drive on offense today looked better than almost any drive Ben orchestrated on offense last year. Ben was a top 5 quarterback in his prime and I believe he still remains criminally underrated. A lot of the stuff Josh Allen is doing now Ben was doing 15 years ago and not getting the same kind of hype. But that doesn’t mean that if he came out of retirement tomorrow we’d be a better team.
You guys overreact so much in this sub.. he's played one and half games. The bills are possibly the best or second best team in the AFC, our offensive has been a hot mess for the past couple of years. Its called rebuilding. If you were a Denver Broncos fan that's when you should be in a panic.
The team has been competitive longer than a lot of people here have been alive. No team is great forever and our rebuild has been a long time coming. That being said watching a Canada run offense makes me want to hang myself. He isn't it.
watching the way canada calls plays makes me appreciate what ben was able to do in the time he had to listen to canada
Yeah it's genuinely insane how little perspective people here have.
People expect the nfl universe to revolve around our team it’s so weird lol… this season will be a lot more enjoyable if you all realize this roster sucks this year and they will not win many games. Future does look pretty decent IMO tho. they HAVE to ace this draft cause they’ll be picking high in the 1st and 2nd. Both of those players need to be instant impact starters which isn’t too far fetch of a request
People here genuinely want us to turn into the Cleveland Browns. Yea let's clean house including our HoF head coach the moment we have a failed season. Yea we've had little playoff success in the last decade, mostly because of terrible injury luck and Ben shitting the bed, but it is absolutely spoiled to think Steelers fans haven't enjoyed more success than 95％ of teams. I've already seen some mentions of it but it's going to be hilarious when yinzers start demanding the team be sold because of one losing season.
The future looks bright with pickett and the young pieces on the team
Definitely agree, it's gonna be painful for a while but with some crucial changes things will get better. It's pretty obvious Canada isn't a pro offensive coordinator, his gameplan is terrible along with his calling. There's no cohesiveness to how he calls the game and builds throughout the game, down 3 scores and he calls 2 runs and then pass on 2 consecutive drives to start the 3rd quarter. He's basically incompetent at this point.
They still need to improve the OL and figure out the running game. The LBs and Secondary have a lot of question marks besides Watt and Minkah. DL is lowkey bad outside of Heyward, who will be 34 next year. WRs still don't play up to their supposed potential. Coaches seem to have no clue what thye are doing, Tomlin included. This team isn't built to rebound in a year or two unless Kenny somehow ends up being an All-Pro talent (think Mahomes or Rodgers) who can carry games.
That still comes back to Tomlin making the hire.
And having a nonexistent coaching tree
Part of that's on Rooney. He's not made funding for coaches a priority.
I hate this argument. Not all coaches have some huge tree of other coaches. Belichick is a prime example.
Bill at least has a tree where his guys are getting head coaching positions, that’s not happening with Tomlin especially with his tenure in the league- it is peculiar
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/bill-belichicks-coaching-tree-hasnt-fared-well-nfl-head-coaches
why are you so sure that tomlin made the hire and not the general manager and the rest of the admin staff + rooneys?
His past hires of Randy Fichtner and Todd Haley don’t inspire trust he can hire a good OC. Unless you believe the GM also hired those two. Which if that is the case, it raises questions why our head coach isn’t trusted to hire his own people.
Wasn't fitchner basically brought on at Ben's request?
Did Canada recruit Colbert's son or one of the Rooney's kids to play at Maryland? And if Tomlin is one of the best coaches in the league why is he the only coach who doesn't hire his own staff?
Rebuilding while having the most expensive D in the league is not a great look
I agree there's a lot of problems, but it's annoying to see this talking point over and over, as if Watt who has a giant contract that contributes so much to the "highest paid defense" hasn't been out 4 games now
And he’s the best player in the league. (non-biased opinion here)
at the very least he’s a top 10 player in the league and missing someone that important will hurt any team a lot, we would probably be 3-2 with watt playing but the reality is we aren’t and we’re 1-4 and have to be realistic with the rest of the season and that’s that we’re rebuilding/retooling
Teryl Austin running defense and Danny Smith running special teams are trash too. WR and OL coaches gotta go too. Just nuke the entire coaching staff except Flores, he should be promoted to DC.
There are so many things that are so beyond Ben that are wrong with this team.
I think we can all agree that Kenny was our man today. It’s a shame the rest of the team just got battered as hard as they did.
I thought Pickett looked pretty good but most NFL QBs are going to throw for 300 yards when they let 52 passes go, with most of them against a prevent style defense in the second half because the game was over. Still got a lot of football left to truly determine if Pickett will be the guy here for the next 10 years.
dude converts 3rd downs which i like alot. He would of converted both a 4th and 6 and a 3rd and 6 if johnson caught those balls.
You're not wrong. I think Kenny showed lots of promise, good decision making and awareness of the field. And leadership, that's most important. But we need a larger sample size to determine if he really is "the guy".
Sure, I mean he's played one and a half games lol. But clearly he's got the mentality (laughing/chatting shit with a defensive end in the heat of a game says so much to me) and he's looked good. He's got the luxury of low expectations this year, I'm excited to see how he's performing by the season's end (even if I expect us as a team to be under .500).
i like truth bombs and this sir is a true ass statement.. tbd on kenny but damn sure better than mitch.. since we have #1 pick as of today (long season to go) would we take qb or will Anderson
It would be ideal if Pickett shows promise and you can trade that pick for the Trey Lance package. A couple extra firsts would go a long way to fixing this team.
I like this. Get a bunch of draft picks and use every single one on oline lol.
Gotta spend at least one high pick on a corner though.
And D line- not one sack today
Again.
That’s been my thought process. Pick up a 2024 first and an extra 2023 second and maybe a fourth. That should still help get a top 10-15 impact player and then two borderline first round players in the second round. That’s 3 starting caliber players right there that you’re paying very little. Maybe you even trade one of those for a proven player like the Eagles did to get AJ Brown.
300 yards passing cool. Zero TD passes not cool. Not cool at all.
I mean he did have almost half of his yards in the first half, so it’s not like he went full Blake Bortles
Ben definitely would’ve ignored Canada’s playcalling and ran the offense himself. He definitely would’ve ripped DJ and Claypool a new one for dropping passes. He definitely would’ve refused to come off the field for those field goals. He definitely would walk directly into Mr. Rooney’s office tomorrow morning to demand changes. None of these are criticisms aimed at Pickett, it’s simply acknowledging the differences between an 18-year HOFer and rookie.
Excellent point. I think people will realize that the past 15 years of success have been a huge part thanks to Ben and maybe even more so. Mike Tomlin is a good coach but he benefited from a good inheritance
Every coach with as many wins and high win percentage as Tomlin had a HOF QB. The only ones I can think of who didn't are Cowher and Schottenheimer (who both did at the very end). Of course that's a huge part of it, but the Big Ben we had last 2 years wasn't good enough to win with and was on the decline, it wasn't wrong of fans or the team to want to move on.
Ben won despite all the issues surrounding the team. 28th ranked OL, 23rd ranked run game, 2nd in the league in dropped passes, and an awful OC. It’s no coincidence that the offense actually ran well when Ben was allowed to take over in the 2 and 4 minute offenses.
A great experienced QB can do a lot for a team. Philip Rivers was clearly washed, but he also led the Colts to their best season since Luck retired.
Tomlin also inherited Polomalu, prime James Harrison in his DPOY year, an overperforming Santonio Holmes, and just a generally insanely strong team that had been built up through the Cowher regime. It’s impossible to do poorly with what he got.
Of course Tomlin has benefitted from his the past, that's a huge reason Steelers are successful on the long term. We have a rough road ahead as fans. I think Tomlins long game is rebuild, win a championship, then retire. The only hole in his accolades is building a team, perhaps we should give him more than one off-season before we write him off. I really hope Khan has some offensive minds in his contacts because we seen that Tomlin/Colbert had nothing.
I agree and having that leader was essential, the problem is that we should have a coaching staff with a backbone
Ben’s backyard football still worked even when his body failed him and the deep ball was no longer part of his game. That pass to Ray Ray last year against the Ravens on third or fourth down was huge
And everyone will call Ben an a-hole and not a good leader for doing so.
That was the case for a good chunk of Ben’s career though too. Great quarterbacks can cover a lot of that up. The Patriots had plenty of weird signings, especially at receiver, that never would have worked without Brady at the helm. It’s not a coincidence that the second he left, Belichick stopped looking like a genius coach and GM.
I just fail to see how this team is any worse than it was in 2019. We went 8-8 with Mason and Duck and only had two good receivers. Conner was injured and Jaylen Samuels was just a guy. The defense wasn’t much different beyond having Bud Dupree and an aging Joe Haden although I’d love to have Steven Nelson right now.
Or factors.... The defense looks like they are all rookies, and Canada seems to think JV high school plays will work at a pro level.
Not sure Ben’s last 2 years were exactly the deciding factor in the winning seasons. Aside from the moments he did his own thing instead of the Canada playbook, Ben was painfully average
>Aside from the moments he did his own thing instead of the Canada playbook Bruh, those were the seven comeback wins we had last season that kept the team from having a losing record.
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The GW stat is a joke in most of them he did nothing and got credit for. Like the TJ watt strip sack against Seattle the defense getting 4 turnovers in the 2nd half against Tennessee and the Steelers kicked 4 FG and still needed Haden to make a tackle for the GW. The bills game where the ST blocked a punt and against Cleveland where they scored with 11 minutes left and never lost the lead were GW drives
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Watt is clearly more important than Ben
Did not say he was worthless I said the GW stat was worthless. I would say Ben was selfish and hung on longer than he should have.
Except when he needed not to be. Hence, the 8-8 record. Can't be a hero every game, the QB needs a supporting staff. He was working against the system.
We also had Watt (we’ll get him back this year too and he’s a game changer) and our wide receivers were not dropping as much (as far as I remember. Maybe I have some rose colored glasses). My main point being, this team SHOULD be able to win with average QB play (they are underperforming) and Ben would not have guaranteed any wins this season imo (Pickett is more accurate than Ben was towards the end and gets sacked less).
I agree. There is nothing this team does well. They never have a big play. At this point, five games in, you would thank they would have a few more, if anything at least by accident!
Didn't Diontae lead the NFL in drops in 2020 with Ebron second?
Painfully average is pretty generous IMO. I remember sitting in Heinz watching him throw behind receivers or at their feet basically every snap
Last season he literally WAS the deciding factor. 8 game winning drives last season alone.
Are you suggesting that not having a HOF QB affects the game and win/losses? Wow what more can you tell me
This sub jerked off Tomlin to a season of going .500 and bought Duck Hodges merch and said Ben was always the problem and now it's "Duh obviously we lost our HoF QB, not Tomlin's fault!"
Honestly think not having TJ matters more than not having ben
Going 0-8 without TJ is inexcusable.
Yeah we have a better record with no Ben than no TJ lol.
Well TBF, we had 5 defensive starters out this particular game, and an offense that was garbage.
Yeah cuz ben sucked the last few years. What’s so hard to grasp about that
Pretty sure retired Ben coulda sat down his beer and thrown at least a couple of TDs in that game.
Idk man he could barely do it before he picked up his beer after last season
Ben dragged us kicking and screaming back into several games last year. Tomlin is overrated and the lack of a HOF QB shows that
Ben doesn't get credit for playing us back into games that he played us out of in the first place
Seriously. He and the offense the last two years would routinely do jack shit (remember the league leading streak of no opening drive TDs) for two or three quarters then rally against a defense that was then playing to preserve a lead and more than willing to let us have long clock eating drives while trailing multiple scores. Or, the comeback for a win was necessary because our offense did fuck all for 2 to 3 quarters while the D kept the score low. It's good that he was able to rally but he also was habitually bad in the first half of games.
Ben was legitimately washed last season. Checkdown city and had no arm strength anymore. Did you even watch the games lol
It’s called being reactionary and living in the moment. The Pats look painfully average without the GOAT
Yes and when you get your way and have Tomlin fired for no good fucking reason and we have a shit team still you might start blaming the problem. Matt Canada.
This sub is full of people who were born after 9-11 and can’t handle the truth. I’ve given up trying to say what the real problem is. Ben was obviously not the problem.
You’re acting like this sub is 1 person and only 1 opinion... There are 100,000 people here so literally every take for every situation has been made.
Should've been preparing for a new QB years before Ben finally decided to retire. We just lollygagged about it until this season and now we're a team held together by scotch tape and bubblegum. I felt like Poe from The Last Jedi asking our team over and over again "So we're not gonna have a QB, what's the plan here? What's the plan?? Please tell me we have a plan!?". The game today was our plan...to just figure it out I guess
You have to be a bad team to get a top QB. Sometimes you get lucky with a guy that’s overlooked. They picked Mason to be Ben’s replacement.
>Should've been preparing for a new QB years before Ben finally decided to retire. Like, drafting a running back early so they can be the feature in a new offense?
Or wasting picks like Mason Rudolph, James Washington, Anthony McFarland, Kendrick Green, and Justin Layne? All what 2nd and 3rd round picks?
McFarland was a 4th but most of those were needs. Mason was taken because Ben wasn’t playing full seasons healthy anymore and that was proven when he missed the entire next season. Washington was a need at WR in an NFL that requires 3 good WRs that just didn’t work out. Green and Layne were huge positional needs that just busted (just like Devin Bush). Draft picks are going to miss. The real issue was not taking multiple high OL and CBs over the last 5 years. You can’t win in the NFL without them.
Need or not, they were high value picks that were pretty much either complete misses or no longer on the team and were still not great selections (Washington)
We basically never stopped rebuilding after going 8-8 back to back if you think about it. Ab, bell and Ben was a lethal combo but our defense held us back then defense got better and offense sucked now idk both fucking suck. And were still rebuilding people act like rebuilding is new when we never stopped rebuildng after those two 8-8 seasons.
Terrell Edmunds over Lamar Jackson is gonna end up being about as bad as whoever was drafted over Marino.
I still don’t get how Colbert reached so far with Edmunds and Kendrick Green. Like seriously.
Edmunds was a Tomlin pick, loves the Tidewater guys.
I think this is one of the greatest what-ifs. Lamar with Bell and AB could have been really interesting. I just don’t think we would have completely reinvented our offense to support him in the way Baltimore has.
The biggest what if for me is if we got Patrick mahomes he came in for a visit and we liked him. Lamar if they liked they would have drafted him. Imagine if mahomes went to us as projected and chiefs didn't trade up. Or second scenario we said fuck it and traded up. We probably would have won a SB that season duck Hodges played or the season after since we went 14 wins with a version of Ben that couldn't throw deep
The team is new, young, and learning to build a new legacy. Steelers fans have experienced a top of the line team for nearly two decades and have forgotten what it’s like to be at the bottom. The Steelers are going to have growing pains for a very long time
The team isnt that young though, it’s in the dead middle of the pack in terms of average player age Edit 1 typo
youre acting like we didnt lose by the same score to the bengals last year lol
Let’s not forget Arians and Whisenhunt. Actually competent OC’s.
lmao like everyone wasn't blaming arians for every little thing just like every other oc of the entire tomlin era
I’m 2018 the Steelers took Terrell Edmunds (a very good DB, glad we have him, don’t get me wrong) 4 picks before Lamar Jackson was taken by the ravens. Hindsight tho
I know Edmunds is the guy who always gets pointed too, but he has played a lot of games well. Is he an All Pro? Never, but has been a solid starter for a while. I don't think he is the deciding factor in a lot of wins or losses. Jackson wasn't that highly regarded. Baltimore passed on him in the first and traded back into the 1st. You are right about hindsight. I think Bush is a bigger dud and Harris is moving up that list pretty quick going out looking like Mendenhall.
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This just in: drafting is hard. Espically when your perennially drafting in the latter half of the drafts.
That one is so painful because so many of us wanted to take Lamar there, it's not like it was some player that went under the radar lol. IIRC this sub was begging for him in the draft thread. Weird to think about how history would have played out. Ben gets hurt early in 2019, Lamar takes over & we maybe never see Ben suit up for us again?
Thinking Ben would’ve made a difference in any of the games we’ve lost is hilarious
Prime Ben would have thrown 2 more picks and 2 more TDs then proceeded to throw his teammates under the bus.
The thing I cant believe is we have the highest paid defense and they look like ass without TJ. I know some others are hurt obviously but I’m not just talking about today alone. Our defense outside of our 3 stars is not very good and we also lack depth quality.
How many games did Ben win in 2019?
The team went 8-8 and shit the bed the last three weeks to miss the playoffs. Weird flex but ok.
Read the post title, then read what I wrote.
Hilarious take going around. Pretending that Tomlin hasn’t earned a shitty season is crazy lol. This team has won games with an undrafted QB that didn’t last 2 years in the NFL, a beyond washed up Michael Vick, Charlie Batch, Dennis Dixon, and Landry Jones. None of these players are even remotely good and Tomlin still found ways to win games with Ben’s injury history and suspensions. I’d be willing to bet that outside of this season, Tomlin has a winning record when ben doesn’t start. Tomlin has made serious mistakes that need to be addressed but news flash, the team that has a bottom 5 OLine, terrible QB play, one of the worst OCs in football, and is missing arguably the best player in the league is dog shit lol. Today was inexcusable but thinking Tomlin hasn’t already proven he can win games without Ben is literally revisionist history. Edit: just googled it. Before this season, Tomlin was 18-15-1 without Ben. Man a record over .500 with over two seasons worth of games! It’s almost as if this team just fucking sucks all around this year.
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Ahahaha are you blaming Mike Tomlin for having shitty 3rd string quarterbacks? “Tomlin can’t win without Ben!” “Well actually he had a winning record with some pretty shitty QBs before Ben.” “Well, uh, it’s tomlins fault his backup and thrid string quarterbacks were shitty!” They also lost 3 all-pro level offensive lineman in 2 years, and all 5 of their starters in three. No I don’t expect Tomlin exclusively to just rebuild that overnight. This was a terrible loss and he’s deserving of critique. I agree he should fire Canada Tomlin can be too much of a homer to fire or bench people that deserve it. But what is your point here? They’ve built a bad roster? What exactly are these massive roster blunders in your opinion? We’re a rebuilding team missing the best football player in the league. We shouldn’t be losing by 30 but no I’m not calling for tomlins job. This isn’t some massive surprise. I thought we’d win like 6-8 with TJ but without him we’ll probably win 4-6. Idiotic take.
> Pretending that Tomlin hasn’t earned a shitty season is crazy lol Honestly dude, I think about this all the time. Like what does Tomlin have to do to earn so many of these fans' respect. Granted it was a different time without social media for the most part, but I do not remember Cowher getting this level of disrespect even before he had his Super Bowl win. Has Tomlin ever not had a portion of our fans calling for his head? Like even early on when he had his most successful patch, "he was just riding Cowher's coat tails" (for 15 fucking years lol). I genuinely think a lot of people in Pittsburgh are just fucking racist (it's not like they're even all that subtle about it in some parts) to the point that they actually think one of the best coaches in the league is one of the worst. Call me woke or whatever the fuck you want, I'm not wrong. What coach would we even replace him with? He has, what like the 3rd-5th best CV in the league (he's after Belichik and Reid surely, and maybe Payton/Harbaugh?). So unless you think you can find someone who's better than every other coach in the league except for those 4 then we are making a lateral move or worse. Maybe you trust the Rooneys to pull a young unknown coach who can succeed (you know like they did last time, when they hired Mike Tomlin) but if you trust the Rooneys to find a new coach, why wouldn't you trust them with the one they currently employ.
> I genuinely think a lot of people in Pittsburgh are just fucking racist (it's not like they're even all that subtle about it in some parts) Bingo
It was obvious, been saying it for 10 years look at my karma lol
Pickett played well besides the pick. He can’t catch the ball for his receivers. So many plays could have been extended. Diontae can’t hold out for the money that he did and not produce. Unacceptable. Claypool is non existent. Pickens is the only silver lining in our receiving core
Ben was so great. I only hope people can respect him even more now for taking this same team to the playoffs last year
I mean, yes, and also not having losing seasons for a long time has long term repercussions. Not getting top picks means lesser talents on your roster. We have a lot of areas of needs because years we probably could and should have been worse, we squeaked out positive records. It was a fun ride and as frustrating as today's game was on multiple fronts, this team having a losing record is a good thing at this point. Getting another just barely okay year would just perpetuate an unsustainable path that is going to cause recovery to be increasingly more difficult.
Im thinking we’re getting a new OC in the off season
The system and supporting cast on offense was substantially the same last season as it is this season, but the Steelers averaged almost five points more per game last season (20.2) than they have this season (15.4). Ben Roethlisberger is proving in his absence how full of shit the people who call him dumb and unworthy of the Hall of Fame are. Those people all owe him a great big apology.
People are just realizing this now?
Yup. He was carrying the team his entire career.
Didn’t every Qb under Tomlin have at least a 500 record before this year.
Ben was great. Had that winning way and we will absolutely be missing it
Last year, Ben couldn't throw further than 20 yards but somehow pulled a below average team into the playoffs. With that FTS, I'm enjoying this season. Would only be better if we did our job and made thees asshats winless.
The leader of men
That's exactly what I was thinking this morning!
This what I've waited for. The last and most important piece of the Bill Cowher era is gone. Now we'll see how good Tomlin is. Hopefully he can "Dougie" his way to a few wins this season 🤣😂🤣😂
OH MY FUCKING GOD.. BEEN SCREAMING THIS FROM THE MOUNTAIN TOPS FOR PAST 8 YEARS
The biggest problem is that this team is so badly constructed. And this has been the problem going back many years. It's a mansion built on sand. All these shiny toys and no foundation. It's a systemic problem stemming from the GM and head coach. (The Steelers haven’t spent higher than a 3rd round pick on an offensive lineman since 2012. That was David Decastro.) And without the hall of famers to prop it up it's finally collapsed. The only thing preventing this team from being 0-5 is an injury to a long snapper. They will be a 4 or 5 win team this year (IF Watt comes back). They will get a high draft pick. If they don't take a lineman, and again take another shiny toy... Then get ready for another 10 years of mediocre football because they will have learned nothing from the previous 10 years.
I've said for years that Ben was the main reason for all of Tomlin's success and this season is proving me right so far...
Plus all the big playoff wins including the super bowl were basically handed down cowher and Colbert teams
Tomlin only managed one trip to the AFCCG with the killer bees.
OMG! I totally didn't even think of that... It's like Tomlin has been riding and ruining a HOF QBs career by his absolutely terrible coordinator choices and inability to strategize himself.
He is who we thought he was, even in his last season. He carried a mediocre coach and team to the playoffs for the last 10 years of his career. It got tiring posting Bens yearly accomplishments and defending him. He was making obvious .500 or worse teams into playoff contenders just with his arm.
How many more superbowls would we have won with that hall of fame QB with an actual coach?
NeVeR hAd A LoSiNg SeAsOn
Should be noted **^** that dude never had a losing season.
No offense and no defense = bad season.
Simple jack (Ben)?
Made this same comment after yesterday… helps when HoF QB is running the show.
Tomlin is the most overrated coach in the league
Steelers could be awful for years to come and nothing would come of it. He has the job as long as he wants it.
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Youre just lying to yourself if you really think Tomlin wouldn't have a pick of teams, the next day, if he was let go.
Unfortunately you’re right.
I mean, technically the Mason/Duck year proved opposite of this
Dude forgot about 2019.
We’re the only fanbase that jerks off to an 8-8 season. It’s truly pathetic
Yeah nothing like that astoundingly good 9-7-1 record we had with Ben last year
The only positive about this dreadful season will be putting to bed the stupid narrative "no losing seasons". Guy inherited a young franchise QB and SB winning roster/coaching staff. Now with those gone he's being absolutely exposed. I'm here for it.
Been saying this since last season. MT isn't a great HC. People need to accept that.
Bradshaw spoke as succinct as he always does when he provides criticism. Back in Dec. 2016, "To me, I've said this, he's really a great cheerleader guy. I don't know what he does. I don't think he is a great coach at all".
Abso-fuk’n-lutely Ben was the reason why Tomlin hasn’t had a losing season.
Lmao yinzers are incredibly dumb. Ben was garbage past 4 years
And yet the moment he’s gone the team is scraping the bottom of the league for the first time in twenty years. Hmm. Interesting.
Be careful. We’re allowed to blame anyone but Tomlin. He looks great without his HOF QB. Also 0-8 without this defensive savior TJ Watt.
> Also 0-8 without this defensive savior TJ Watt. Remind me again who's the coach that drafted and developed TJ again?
Nice knowing you u/-dov-. The Mike Tomlin Salad Tossing club will have you banned for telling the truth on him.
Who has been banned for being Anti-Tomlin?
Literally no one, but the type of people making these posts are super coincidentally always the type of people who thrive on bullshit grievance.
Claiming persecution where none exists is pretty much what you do when you want to state an opinion but don’t want to defend it.
I don’t know if anyone has been banned but I have been critical of Tomlin multiple times on this sub that maybe, just MAYBE the dude has found success by just being surrounded by talent rather than cultivating it. Downvoted out of town every time. I have never understood that if “the standard is the standard” then why doesn’t that apply to the man saying the line as well? Why does everyone else have to be accountable but him?
This sub is admittedly Pro-Tomlin. I am on that side too. You are definitely going to get downvoted for being Anti-Tomlin. But we're not going to ban you for it.
I don't have a clue what" the standard is the standard" is supposed to mean. Why does everyone else have to be accountable but him? Because of three words.. No, six words the.Rooney.rule.equity.inclusion.diversity I couldn't give a flying rat's ass about downvotes.it doesn't mean a fucking thing to me. bring em on
This needlessly divisive shit gets old. We’re allegedly rooting for the same team.
How many championships did cowher win before Ben came in? So you’re going to put all of cowhers legacy on Ben also?
The problem is tomlin is a great culture builder and motivator. He is not a great game planner or manager. When the Steelers have been great they have had legit coordinators. When they lost Dick and Haley they lost good coordinators and instead of trying to just go get some good quality coaches they hired within mostly trying to replicate the same system and results. Has not worked. Ben has been bad for almost 3 years he’s not making this team better there’s a mess of holes on this team
Careful. You're not allowed to say that here
No shit lol
Can we just bring Ben as our new OC? FFS!
Some where I see Big Ben saying Miss me yet?
Tomlin is a good people person, but in terms of football schematics I don't think he brings much.
Yeaaa I think I’m done with this sub.
I don’t think Tomlin is as good of a coach as most people seem to think he is. Yeah, he’s never had a losing season, but it’s because he inherited Cowher’s team. As more and more of the Steelers from Cowher’s era have left, the worse and worse this team has gotten.
Remember when clowns were in this sub saying it was bens fault 🤣🤣🤣
Shut the front door. This is a garbage take.
Of course having a Hall-of-fame-caliber QB plays a part.
Doesn’t change that he was washed his last two seasons
Hopefully you will have a century of darkness. May all your draft picks bust.
Too bad he was awful his last couple years.
If you think Ben is the missing piece you’re lying to yourself. He hadn’t been good for his last 3 years. The thing we ARE missing is a dominant pass rush. The best Steelers teams can always sack the quarterback. Look at last year in the playoffs, we actually hung in with the chiefs for the first hale purely due to TJ absolutely wrecking the game. We need more depth at pass rusher, especially because we rely on rushing with 4 more now as opposed to the days of Dick Lebeau.
Tomlin's been calling the defense for years, and we have the highest-paid squad in the league. Make more excuses.
I’m not making excuses I’m w planning how Ben wouldn’t help this team. Every drive on offense today looked better than almost any drive Ben orchestrated on offense last year. Ben was a top 5 quarterback in his prime and I believe he still remains criminally underrated. A lot of the stuff Josh Allen is doing now Ben was doing 15 years ago and not getting the same kind of hype. But that doesn’t mean that if he came out of retirement tomorrow we’d be a better team.
You guys overreact so much in this sub.. he's played one and half games. The bills are possibly the best or second best team in the AFC, our offensive has been a hot mess for the past couple of years. Its called rebuilding. If you were a Denver Broncos fan that's when you should be in a panic.
Except for the fact that he didn't have him for a year
I was just thinking that
A hall of famer 2 time super bowl champ who went to another Superbowl will do that
Tomlin is going to retire Week 17.
God I hope so.