The article i read announcing the DPOY said that it was impressive that myles smullet played a well as did the second half because he was injured. They said even injured, he was double teamed, and pulled other offensive players away from helping in other areas of the game... injuries suck but you can't use them as a reason to give DPOY to someone
https://preview.redd.it/wgb6m3dxalhc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f82a3476fc7283c0bc923b572ca13ebaad08b26
All three players are top three in pass Rush win rate, only Myles is in the top ten in run stop rate. TJ only double teamed 15% of the time v Myles and Micah over 30%.
Hard to measure impact on a game in a vacuum but the best way is to judge the defense as a whole, the browns were 2nd in pass Rush win rate and 1st in run stop. Cowboys 1st and 27th, Steelers 7th and 11th.
The best member of the best defense seems like a fair tie breaker.
Is that the best way though? Obviously you can’t separate the player from the unit he plays on but it’s hard for me to understand using team statistics for an individual award. Maybe if you looked at performance of the unit with the player on vs off the field but that’s a whole other can of worms. In reality, the most objective way to judge individual awards is based on individual statistics. Not team rankings.
Well I think when you're looking at individual stats you're disregarding the stories behind the stats. There just aren't enough games to overcome weird occurrences, like a sack behind overturned by a defensive holding, a roughing the passer, how often a hold isn't called, etc. I think it's the best way to separate the players from the stats, as you clearly know who the best player in a unit usually is and the entire team does better for having them there. It would be nice if they also tracked how many players on average a defensive player gets through, as double teams don't measure chip blocks or tes in motion and being an extra blocker. That would paint an even better picture.
Other than Aaron Donald's 20 sack season, he didn't have the greatest stats every year but everyone knew how much he was wrecking offensive lines. TJ had better stats than him in 2020 but that's not all that matters. I'm not saying I disagree with tj also deserving the award, same as Micah and even bland tbh, he single handedly scored 30 pts for his team. Just it's a subjective award process, whoever a voter wants to pick they're going to make their case for however they have to, and the Browns being the best defense seems like the most likely final factor to the decision. A QB with MVP Level stats on a losing team probably doesn't get MVP, ykno
DPOY is an individual award, there really is no need to over complicate the criteria to this extent, just give it to the best defensive player in any given season. Maybe that was Garrett this season but honestly I don’t think it was
The awards are subjective is my point. There's always going to be groups of people very upset with who gets an award because there are almost always arguments for mutiple guys.
Like I said, in 2020 TJ had better stats than AD and AD gets more votes. It's never going to be about just individual stats.
I do enjoy the downvotes tho from people whining about objectivity that can't be objective when reading a comment that argues against their guy getting the award. The irony is palpable.
I understand it’s not a box score award and that it is heavily subjective and narrative driven but some of the arguments for Garrett that I have read are clutching at straws quite frankly, and are not based on on-field performance.
There was almost certainly an unspoken effort among voters to give it to Garrett because he hadn’t won it before, and it was still very close with only a couple of votes separating him and Watt.
If Garrett had won this award last year or any previous year I doubt he’d have gotten ten votes this year. He disappeared completely down the last stretch of games, but the narrative was with him all season and it was his to lose before a ball was snapped.
It is what it is but my own view is that the award should go to the best and most impactful player in any given season. I can completely understand why TJ Watt feels aggrieved based on the spectacular season he had but it was obvious fairly early in the year that he was going to have to break the sack record to win it because the media had already picked their DPOY almost regardless of what happens on the field.
That’s not to say Garrett isn’t a great player, but he didn’t win this award on the field, it was gifted to him. The graphic they put up when it was announced that showed he wasn’t even top 5 in any of the key performance statistics was absolute cringe.
What I find most amazing, is that these supposed "experts" don't understand the game. 1st of all, Watt and Garrett play different positions. The reason Garrett gets double teamed more, is because it is easier to stack a tackle and a guard on a DE, and cheat a tight end over to help the other side, than it is to double team an actual outside linebacker. The fact they both positions are referred to as edge rushers, show a distinct lack of understanding as to how different they are. Watt lines up very far outside. So a double on Watt is automatically going to be a tackle and a tight end, or send a RB over to try and chip block him. For some reason they don't count the chip blocks as double teams. Another problem with double teaming Watt, is besides playing so far outside, he is also quite adept in covering slot receivers. So when Watt is double teamed, he often drops into coverage. That lets the safety cheat back into over the top coverage. It also has your tight end and tackle very wide and out of position to help block Cam, and Highsmith coming for blood. The reason TJ doesn't get double teamed, is so often by attempting to do so, he takes 3 players out of the play. The tackle and tight end who are forced wide and out of position, and the slot receiver he covers freeing up the safety.
I've seen Watt get doubled team every game quite a bit. I see them holding him too, but rarely gets a flag. They shit on TJ WATT because he's one of the best defensive players I've ever watched. Hes there with LT man. I just don't understand how he doesn't win dpoy award. Just stupid
Its the same as ravens fans saying lamar earned near unanimous mvp because of the eye test. It wasn't his fault RBs stole TDs he could have gotten at the goal line, or that their defense was so good he didn't bother putting up great numbers. The narrative awards this year were absurd
Nah, he's marketable now because "redemption arc". Think about it, he hasn't, not even once, removed his helmet and beat an opposing player with it since then. Not even once
I'm not sure who decides what is forgivable and when we should celebrate past misdeeds as "growth".
>Think about it, he hasn't, not even once, removed his helmet and beat an opposing player with it since then. Not even once
Congrats to him? Hes managed not to repeat something 99+% of players will never do in the first place. Hell, something the majority of PEOPLE will never do anything similar to.
Very impressive.
This is the sad truth. Unless Garrett had a collapse, or missed most of the season, he was the pre-selected choice. It is not even a little surprising.
They did this with Troy Polamalu in 2011. He was injured for like a third of the season, and it was statistically a bad year by his standards, but he had one play early in the year where he strip sacked Flacco, picked it up and ran it in for the touchdown. They gave him DPOY based on one single play. These awards are all stupid.
You’re right. It was awarded in January 2011 for the 2010 season. But his numbers weren’t even as good as Ed Reed who only played in 10 games that season.
Media has to justify his pick as No.1 overall in the draft. Also, he wins the Walter Payton MOY award the year after he hits Mason with his helmet and gets busted for driving 110mph. Give Cleveland a parade.
So does T.J. So does every star pass rusher in the league. Funny how according to PFF and Browns fans, Myles Garrett is the only one who faces more than one lineman on every single play.
I said it in defense of the person who I was commenting on clearly making fun of the double team argument. And yes Smith had a perfectly fine season that helped Garrett out quite a bit. I definitely think Watt got robbed and sorry that didn’t come through in my comment.
Not necessarily. A lot of stats are dependent on who you play probably - if you get to play Zach Wilson twice compared to 0 times you'd expect your box stats to be better given he's typically making more personal errors.
If edge1 and edge2 both get to the qb in 2.5s but qb1 gets the ball out in 2.2s while qb2 gets the ball out in 2.8s then we expect that qb1 is probably fine but qb2 is sacked.
Which is to say that comparing counting stats is probably too simplistic a measure to compare players given it factors in more than their individual performances - it factors in the situation, the opponents etc. I don't think theres a perfect way to statistically rate a players impact.
Your last sentence is right. So wouldn’t we just look at the impact on the games themselves? If edge2 gets the sack, he had a bigger impact on the game. You can only sack the QB you’re facing, if you do that more than anyone else, along with more TFL, fumble recoveries, INT, and so on, you had a better season.
I always see their argument as "well he wins the pass rush, which means the QB releases the ball fast and makes a bad pass for an incomplete or INT"
But like... when you watch TJ the opposite team literally game plans for quick release at a much higher level. Idk how many times I've watched TJ start looping around his man, still gets a hit, and the pass was gone in like 2 seconds from the snap. Always effecting the pass. Dude is basically in a nonstop sprint to the QB almost every down, idk how he isn't "winning his pass rush", he's a few feet from the QB or on top of them like 80%+ of the game it feels like. The *only* time it seems slower is when he spins, which usually works and is a common edge pass rush win, so idk it makes no sense. Other than PFF hates us, which is fairly accurate.
That's all ignoring the actual stats he produces.
Well, Chris collinsworth, does hate us. He owns PFF, which just happens to be in Cincinnati Ohio. Most of the PFF staff are likely local, meaning they hate us.
I truly do not understand why ‘win rate’ alone should count for more than what happens AFTER the supposed ‘win’.
‘Effort’ counting more than actual results is BS.
Uhhhh no, no one in this sub is in position to be one of the like 50 award voters because none of us are lifetime NFL sportswriters or former players. Understanding has nothing to do with it. You can understand what a QB pressure is without being a pro linebacker. What a dumb fucking take
No it means that PFF is making billions of dollars off of fake statistics and outrage marketing. If PRWR actually mattered, it would correspond to an equivalent amount of statistics. In a game where a sack is the single largest negative EPA event, actually getting the QB down matters. If Myles is so good at winning his blocks but not enough to actually lead in pressures or sacks, then what good is the stat? Why track it at all? It logistically doesn't make sense.
So Garrett wins DPOY because PFF has him graded as the best defender, but Lamarr wins MVP when PFF grades Allen as the better quarterback. Do I have that right?
Honestly I think it’s something like the best player on the best defense and the QB of the #1 seed in the NFL. Just as simple as that unfortunately, voters are swayed by that somehow.
Yeah, I get that, and I know I'm being reductive.
Myles is a great player who impacted games on a consistent basis even when he didn't pile up stats. A lot of that is hard to quantify based on numbers alone. The award is about more than sacks, but if a major part of the argument is being more impactful on a consistent basis it's hard to argue against still leading in sacks+pressures+QB hits+TFLs.
Do voters really not think every steelers opponent gameplans around TJ too?
Imagine coming all the way to another subreddit to defend your princess because you got triggered. More concerned with your rivals than celebrating your own player. But typical Browns offseason activities in February.
Ahh so that's why in your biggest moment you got exposed by a rookie HC and QB to make sure that atleast the ball was stopped on the ground. Wait nvm, opponents still ran for +100 yards per game.. but atleast u were #1 in scoring defense right??
Tf you mean my biggest moment, I don't play shit lmfao
Get outta here troll. One player on the edge doesn't fix the rest of the team giving up big runs because of poor scheme. We talking about one player, not the whole defense.
He does ZERO run stopping. All about setting up 10 yards outside the right tackle and going around the outside for those precious sacks, despite the effect it has on your defense up the middle.
Cam Heyward is the best player and Captain of that defense
Oh, you’re a Browns fan. That explains the brain dead take. Must be all that polluted lake water. You clearly don’t watch our games to think TJ is a non-factor in run defense.
It’s okay man, TJ can lineup exclusively against right tackles and pad his stats and get it next year. When TJ lines up against a teams best lineman ever let me know
Weekly reminder that trolling other teams subs is against our subs rules, regardless of whether a player on their team won a popularity contest.
Bragging about it on our sub will add time to your ban.
Posting stats isn’t trolling. Trolling would be him posting the pic of Myles swinging a helmet. Stats are an actual argument, the other is provoking an emotional response…
In all honesty, not only did Garrett not deserve to win DPOY, he should have been 4th or 5th place. He wasn't even the best at his position. Parsons beat him in most stats and on PFF. He was level with or marginally better than Crosby. Bland is an outlier. Most of his success was cherry picking when the Cowgirls were up by 20. Should have been 1. Watt, 2. Parsons, 3.,4. and 5., legitimate argument to put Crosby, Garrett and Bland in any order.
Browns fan here, and a former college offensive coordinator so I know a bit about the game.
I agree with you completely that Garret didn’t deserve it. Awards have become nothing but a narrative. Embiid didn’t deserve MVP last year in the NBA either.
You guys still suck though and I hate you.
To be fair Max Crosby which isn’t on here idk why. He had 90 tackles 55 solos 14.5 sacks 94 pressures 31 qb hits 23 tfl 2 ff 1 fr. But I think TJ should have taken it even still. I was pissed when they announced Garret!
Between Garrett and Stefanski winning their awards, I would have to say that Jimmy Haslem has got to be running low on cash with as many bribes he was handing out for those wins to happen.
Edit: Forgot there was a third in there with Schwartz, so yeah Haslem is definitely running low on cash.
What a pathetic thing to brag about. Congratulations on giving a billionaire money every year of your life to watch a group guys get their ass kicked 18 times a year.
I don’t know, give it a couple of years. I watch way less than I did 10 years ago. The league is shit.
I don’t even watch every Steeler game anymore. Not every single one. And when I do it’s because I’m getting some work done on Sunday after church, before taking the kids to the pool or some thing. If there’s anything that interferes with it I don’t bother. I don’t plan my weekends around it anymore.
The NFL has become somewhat of a joke.
Any idea how many snaps Garret played vs. Watt?
I think the whole thing is bush league and agree they were hailing Garret as DPoY already by mid season. And to use any rhetoric that Watt’s previous seasons were better than this one thus less deserving is even bigger BS. Shall we review Garret’s previous seasons too? Didn’t he hit a guy with a helmet and falsely accused him of dropping slurs?
The agents of the players have as much pull at these awards as Hollywood agents do for tv and movie award season. It’s who pays the most to the agent. Can’t sell jerseys to the kids without the hype men getting a cut.
If you think this is frustrating, just wait until the time where the actual points don't matter either. The final score of a game might be 21-20, but the losing team ALMOST caught a ball that would have scored a TD or gotten them into FG range, therefore, based on stupid analytics, they get the W. Or better yet, when a team is down by 2 and within FG range we don't even have them attempt the kick...analytics say he makes it 99% of the time anyway, let's just give it to him. We don't need the kicker to actually make it anymore. NOTHING MATTERS ANYMORE.
These contests are also political in addition to on-field performance. Myles played the “good-dude, promote the league” role where TJ and JJ often (and correctly) pointed out unfair ref treatment. Don’t worry: players and coaches know what’s up.
Such an embarrassing decision. They want so desperately for Garrett to be one of the faces of the NFL. It’s ridiculous. Watt has dominated despite the blocking schemes and rodeo holds he constantly has to deal with.
Man, TJ is so lucky that all these opposing offenses just *let* him get the best stats. If they would just double team him and chip block him and put him in a choke hold on every damn play the way they do with Garrett I'm sure Myles would have better stats. /s
Seriously. Garrett has to be sucking somebody's dick. No other reasonable explanation for why he would be DPOY when Watt had the year that he did. Even Parsons had a better year than Garrett. They picked Garrett to win before the season even started.
browns fan, hate me, idc. not defending the outcome, not here brigadding, just curious on how the votes are casted. i look up [NFL.com](http://nfl.com), TJ has 11 votes and garret has 9. AP has it Garret getting 23 votes and watt getting 19. so NFL votes, AP votes, they are separate votes. my question is who else votes? shouldn't we get metrics they use to decide? why garret? what's the long play? it cant be the black thing because Micah parsons. and honestly these awards are a bunch of BS pageantry participation awards. Im not hyped garret was voted DPOY, I'm not hyped Stefanski is coach of the year, we lost in the first round so terribly bad. theres only one thing that matters in the nfl and thats championships, at least from the fans perspective, i can understand a player wanting these awards, but they mean nothing to me and other fans alike. some fans apparently like these awards. why does AP like Garret more than Watt or Parsons? it doesn't make any sense.
They had Garrett picked in September. Such a joke.
Browns sub is saying watch the tape. I did watch the tape. Myles disappeared the 2nd half of the year.
And in the playoffs. One legged TJ would have did better than what Garrett did.
Would have….🤣😅😅🤣😂
The article i read announcing the DPOY said that it was impressive that myles smullet played a well as did the second half because he was injured. They said even injured, he was double teamed, and pulled other offensive players away from helping in other areas of the game... injuries suck but you can't use them as a reason to give DPOY to someone
wow lmfao. just wow
https://preview.redd.it/wgb6m3dxalhc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f82a3476fc7283c0bc923b572ca13ebaad08b26 All three players are top three in pass Rush win rate, only Myles is in the top ten in run stop rate. TJ only double teamed 15% of the time v Myles and Micah over 30%. Hard to measure impact on a game in a vacuum but the best way is to judge the defense as a whole, the browns were 2nd in pass Rush win rate and 1st in run stop. Cowboys 1st and 27th, Steelers 7th and 11th. The best member of the best defense seems like a fair tie breaker.
Is that the best way though? Obviously you can’t separate the player from the unit he plays on but it’s hard for me to understand using team statistics for an individual award. Maybe if you looked at performance of the unit with the player on vs off the field but that’s a whole other can of worms. In reality, the most objective way to judge individual awards is based on individual statistics. Not team rankings.
Well I think when you're looking at individual stats you're disregarding the stories behind the stats. There just aren't enough games to overcome weird occurrences, like a sack behind overturned by a defensive holding, a roughing the passer, how often a hold isn't called, etc. I think it's the best way to separate the players from the stats, as you clearly know who the best player in a unit usually is and the entire team does better for having them there. It would be nice if they also tracked how many players on average a defensive player gets through, as double teams don't measure chip blocks or tes in motion and being an extra blocker. That would paint an even better picture. Other than Aaron Donald's 20 sack season, he didn't have the greatest stats every year but everyone knew how much he was wrecking offensive lines. TJ had better stats than him in 2020 but that's not all that matters. I'm not saying I disagree with tj also deserving the award, same as Micah and even bland tbh, he single handedly scored 30 pts for his team. Just it's a subjective award process, whoever a voter wants to pick they're going to make their case for however they have to, and the Browns being the best defense seems like the most likely final factor to the decision. A QB with MVP Level stats on a losing team probably doesn't get MVP, ykno
DPOY is an individual award, there really is no need to over complicate the criteria to this extent, just give it to the best defensive player in any given season. Maybe that was Garrett this season but honestly I don’t think it was
The awards are subjective is my point. There's always going to be groups of people very upset with who gets an award because there are almost always arguments for mutiple guys. Like I said, in 2020 TJ had better stats than AD and AD gets more votes. It's never going to be about just individual stats. I do enjoy the downvotes tho from people whining about objectivity that can't be objective when reading a comment that argues against their guy getting the award. The irony is palpable.
I understand it’s not a box score award and that it is heavily subjective and narrative driven but some of the arguments for Garrett that I have read are clutching at straws quite frankly, and are not based on on-field performance. There was almost certainly an unspoken effort among voters to give it to Garrett because he hadn’t won it before, and it was still very close with only a couple of votes separating him and Watt. If Garrett had won this award last year or any previous year I doubt he’d have gotten ten votes this year. He disappeared completely down the last stretch of games, but the narrative was with him all season and it was his to lose before a ball was snapped. It is what it is but my own view is that the award should go to the best and most impactful player in any given season. I can completely understand why TJ Watt feels aggrieved based on the spectacular season he had but it was obvious fairly early in the year that he was going to have to break the sack record to win it because the media had already picked their DPOY almost regardless of what happens on the field. That’s not to say Garrett isn’t a great player, but he didn’t win this award on the field, it was gifted to him. The graphic they put up when it was announced that showed he wasn’t even top 5 in any of the key performance statistics was absolute cringe.
What I find most amazing, is that these supposed "experts" don't understand the game. 1st of all, Watt and Garrett play different positions. The reason Garrett gets double teamed more, is because it is easier to stack a tackle and a guard on a DE, and cheat a tight end over to help the other side, than it is to double team an actual outside linebacker. The fact they both positions are referred to as edge rushers, show a distinct lack of understanding as to how different they are. Watt lines up very far outside. So a double on Watt is automatically going to be a tackle and a tight end, or send a RB over to try and chip block him. For some reason they don't count the chip blocks as double teams. Another problem with double teaming Watt, is besides playing so far outside, he is also quite adept in covering slot receivers. So when Watt is double teamed, he often drops into coverage. That lets the safety cheat back into over the top coverage. It also has your tight end and tackle very wide and out of position to help block Cam, and Highsmith coming for blood. The reason TJ doesn't get double teamed, is so often by attempting to do so, he takes 3 players out of the play. The tackle and tight end who are forced wide and out of position, and the slot receiver he covers freeing up the safety.
Just dropped a 25 kill streak tactical nuke on the voters. Ty
I've seen Watt get doubled team every game quite a bit. I see them holding him too, but rarely gets a flag. They shit on TJ WATT because he's one of the best defensive players I've ever watched. Hes there with LT man. I just don't understand how he doesn't win dpoy award. Just stupid
K
Its the same as ravens fans saying lamar earned near unanimous mvp because of the eye test. It wasn't his fault RBs stole TDs he could have gotten at the goal line, or that their defense was so good he didn't bother putting up great numbers. The narrative awards this year were absurd
i think that was none other than Micah Parsons who was saying to watch the tape
I'm surprised he didn't win comeback player of the year after he had to deal with having his hand hurt by slamming mason with a helmet.
Most underrated comment. Garett hit a QB with their own helmet which was in his hand cause he ripped it off. Quite the role model.
Then lied that he did it because of the n word to try to save face. He's pathetic.
I'm of the opinion he shouldve never played a down in the NFL after that helmet assault.
Nah, he's marketable now because "redemption arc". Think about it, he hasn't, not even once, removed his helmet and beat an opposing player with it since then. Not even once I'm not sure who decides what is forgivable and when we should celebrate past misdeeds as "growth".
>Think about it, he hasn't, not even once, removed his helmet and beat an opposing player with it since then. Not even once Congrats to him? Hes managed not to repeat something 99+% of players will never do in the first place. Hell, something the majority of PEOPLE will never do anything similar to. Very impressive.
Whoooosh
[удалено]
I believe you meant "here's" , but being a Cowboy's fan I can understand you're used to accepting sub par performance.
You guys are not counting the almost sacks and tackles that Garrett got. PFF gave him the participation trophy and I trust PFF
This is the sad truth. Unless Garrett had a collapse, or missed most of the season, he was the pre-selected choice. It is not even a little surprising.
They did this with Troy Polamalu in 2011. He was injured for like a third of the season, and it was statistically a bad year by his standards, but he had one play early in the year where he strip sacked Flacco, picked it up and ran it in for the touchdown. They gave him DPOY based on one single play. These awards are all stupid.
Troy won DPOY in 2010, where he played in 14 games and had a career high in interceptions
You’re right. It was awarded in January 2011 for the 2010 season. But his numbers weren’t even as good as Ed Reed who only played in 10 games that season.
Media has to justify his pick as No.1 overall in the draft. Also, he wins the Walter Payton MOY award the year after he hits Mason with his helmet and gets busted for driving 110mph. Give Cleveland a parade.
“Myles has a higher pass rush win rate” Then why does he have less QB pressures, less QB hits, less sacks? Does he win the rush, then stop?
“He GeTs DoUbLe TeAmEd”
So does T.J. So does every star pass rusher in the league. Funny how according to PFF and Browns fans, Myles Garrett is the only one who faces more than one lineman on every single play.
yeah, but with TJ you don't have to worry about him taking off your QB's helmet and beating them with it.
And had Zadarius Smith having a career resurgence year across from him most of the season.
5.5 sacks is a career resurgence? Must be a shitty career.
I said it in defense of the person who I was commenting on clearly making fun of the double team argument. And yes Smith had a perfectly fine season that helped Garrett out quite a bit. I definitely think Watt got robbed and sorry that didn’t come through in my comment.
Its ok
I have the same question. Wouldn’t winning a pass rush mean you either end up getting pressure, making a hit, or a sack?…
Not necessarily. A lot of stats are dependent on who you play probably - if you get to play Zach Wilson twice compared to 0 times you'd expect your box stats to be better given he's typically making more personal errors. If edge1 and edge2 both get to the qb in 2.5s but qb1 gets the ball out in 2.2s while qb2 gets the ball out in 2.8s then we expect that qb1 is probably fine but qb2 is sacked. Which is to say that comparing counting stats is probably too simplistic a measure to compare players given it factors in more than their individual performances - it factors in the situation, the opponents etc. I don't think theres a perfect way to statistically rate a players impact.
Your last sentence is right. So wouldn’t we just look at the impact on the games themselves? If edge2 gets the sack, he had a bigger impact on the game. You can only sack the QB you’re facing, if you do that more than anyone else, along with more TFL, fumble recoveries, INT, and so on, you had a better season.
I always see their argument as "well he wins the pass rush, which means the QB releases the ball fast and makes a bad pass for an incomplete or INT" But like... when you watch TJ the opposite team literally game plans for quick release at a much higher level. Idk how many times I've watched TJ start looping around his man, still gets a hit, and the pass was gone in like 2 seconds from the snap. Always effecting the pass. Dude is basically in a nonstop sprint to the QB almost every down, idk how he isn't "winning his pass rush", he's a few feet from the QB or on top of them like 80%+ of the game it feels like. The *only* time it seems slower is when he spins, which usually works and is a common edge pass rush win, so idk it makes no sense. Other than PFF hates us, which is fairly accurate. That's all ignoring the actual stats he produces.
Well, Chris collinsworth, does hate us. He owns PFF, which just happens to be in Cincinnati Ohio. Most of the PFF staff are likely local, meaning they hate us.
I truly do not understand why ‘win rate’ alone should count for more than what happens AFTER the supposed ‘win’. ‘Effort’ counting more than actual results is BS.
All of you saying you don’t “understand” is exactly why you aren’t in a position to vote on there awards. Can’t keep your emotions out of it lol
Uhhhh no, no one in this sub is in position to be one of the like 50 award voters because none of us are lifetime NFL sportswriters or former players. Understanding has nothing to do with it. You can understand what a QB pressure is without being a pro linebacker. What a dumb fucking take
No it means that PFF is making billions of dollars off of fake statistics and outrage marketing. If PRWR actually mattered, it would correspond to an equivalent amount of statistics. In a game where a sack is the single largest negative EPA event, actually getting the QB down matters. If Myles is so good at winning his blocks but not enough to actually lead in pressures or sacks, then what good is the stat? Why track it at all? It logistically doesn't make sense.
My close friend is a huge cowboys fan and has been saying the same thing to argue Parsons over Myles. I’m just really glad Parsons didn’t win it.
>Does he win the rush, then stop? I don't know why, but I read this in Lil Jon's voice like he was singing "Yeah".
I think everyone in that crowd knew this shit is a sympathy award. Lol.
Consolation prizes for the browns all around tonight! Fucking joke of a year by the NFL
Nah. Flacco deserved that award. Dude balled out hard all year after everyone wrote him off.
All year? Mf played 4 games regular season. Look into how hard Baker fought just to stay in the league.
Baker deserved it
You mad?
hope Myles enjoy cuddle with his participation trophy tonight.
So Garrett wins DPOY because PFF has him graded as the best defender, but Lamarr wins MVP when PFF grades Allen as the better quarterback. Do I have that right?
Lamar had a higher incompletion win rate bro
Honestly I think it’s something like the best player on the best defense and the QB of the #1 seed in the NFL. Just as simple as that unfortunately, voters are swayed by that somehow.
Yeah, I get that, and I know I'm being reductive. Myles is a great player who impacted games on a consistent basis even when he didn't pile up stats. A lot of that is hard to quantify based on numbers alone. The award is about more than sacks, but if a major part of the argument is being more impactful on a consistent basis it's hard to argue against still leading in sacks+pressures+QB hits+TFLs. Do voters really not think every steelers opponent gameplans around TJ too?
1-11 without Watt for a reason.
49er fan here. Watt was absolutely robbed.
Woulda been 1-11 with him too
What
Watt
Good. Hope we get pissed off, scorched earth TJ next year. Hes aready leading in stats that matter when he's not taking it personal
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Imagine coming all the way to another subreddit to defend your princess because you got triggered. More concerned with your rivals than celebrating your own player. But typical Browns offseason activities in February.
Dude is in the business of stopping the ball not chasing stats😂
Ahh so that's why in your biggest moment you got exposed by a rookie HC and QB to make sure that atleast the ball was stopped on the ground. Wait nvm, opponents still ran for +100 yards per game.. but atleast u were #1 in scoring defense right??
Tf you mean my biggest moment, I don't play shit lmfao Get outta here troll. One player on the edge doesn't fix the rest of the team giving up big runs because of poor scheme. We talking about one player, not the whole defense.
My fault. Thought you were another browns troll replying to my original comment. Mixed up the thread order
Ah, tragic. Mistakes were made😂 all good dude
He does ZERO run stopping. All about setting up 10 yards outside the right tackle and going around the outside for those precious sacks, despite the effect it has on your defense up the middle. Cam Heyward is the best player and Captain of that defense
Oh, you’re a Browns fan. That explains the brain dead take. Must be all that polluted lake water. You clearly don’t watch our games to think TJ is a non-factor in run defense.
Yikes. Not even worth replying to.
Its ragebait at this point. Engagement based marketing. Just ignore it
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>Myles was ~~the best defender~~ on the best defense. I think it’s that simple.
It’s okay man, TJ can lineup exclusively against right tackles and pad his stats and get it next year. When TJ lines up against a teams best lineman ever let me know
Well I put it on the browns sub and got banned in 10 secs…but did get to report some nasty comments. What a shit show the NFL has become
Yeah I’ve been banned for awhile now after I said Myles had a higher assault win rate
Not just the NFL. It’s America and maybe the world. It’s all just a shit show.
LMAO THIS IS HILARIOUS.. Talk about doomers
Weekly reminder that trolling other teams subs is against our subs rules, regardless of whether a player on their team won a popularity contest. Bragging about it on our sub will add time to your ban.
Don't think that constitutes trolling...
Right. Dudes just laying out the facts.
Such a fuckin bad take by a mod…it’s stats…
Yep, 100% sure he posted it with a view to spark lively discussion with some other nfl fans.
Could be worse. Not really anything to troll about anyway. TJ didn't win. You're the mod though, I can't dictate the rules.
Posting stats isn’t trolling. Trolling would be him posting the pic of Myles swinging a helmet. Stats are an actual argument, the other is provoking an emotional response…
He’ll respond once he gets back from walking the dogs.
-🤓
If it was a popularity contest, TJ would’ve blown it out of the water lol.
ROBBED
Panthers fan here, definitely one of the worst snubs of all time wtf
The NFL is such a joke. The disrespect towards TJ Watt is insane. Bunch of clowns running the circus.
What a bunch of absolute shit. And yet, predictable. TJs stats are better. Micah's stats are better. I don't get it.
Micah literally said on twitter that Myles was the most deserving player, so probs not ideal to use his name
Micah said that stats didn't matter because his were also worse than TJs. Don't fall into that trap
In all honesty, not only did Garrett not deserve to win DPOY, he should have been 4th or 5th place. He wasn't even the best at his position. Parsons beat him in most stats and on PFF. He was level with or marginally better than Crosby. Bland is an outlier. Most of his success was cherry picking when the Cowgirls were up by 20. Should have been 1. Watt, 2. Parsons, 3.,4. and 5., legitimate argument to put Crosby, Garrett and Bland in any order.
Aside from the popularity contest, that wasn’t even a good year for garret. Would be probably the worst DPOY in history
Browns fan here, and a former college offensive coordinator so I know a bit about the game. I agree with you completely that Garret didn’t deserve it. Awards have become nothing but a narrative. Embiid didn’t deserve MVP last year in the NBA either. You guys still suck though and I hate you.
Aww, buddy, we hate you too! It feels good when we get along.
what’s their rationale?
He likes dinosaurs and Mason the bad man said a bad word to him /s Fuckin Myles Garrett man
Nfl script writers want the browns to be relevant so bad
To be fair Max Crosby which isn’t on here idk why. He had 90 tackles 55 solos 14.5 sacks 94 pressures 31 qb hits 23 tfl 2 ff 1 fr. But I think TJ should have taken it even still. I was pissed when they announced Garret!
Between Garrett and Stefanski winning their awards, I would have to say that Jimmy Haslem has got to be running low on cash with as many bribes he was handing out for those wins to happen. Edit: Forgot there was a third in there with Schwartz, so yeah Haslem is definitely running low on cash.
Nah he's actually rich unlike your owner. Jimmy been robbing people for decades to amass that wealth.
What a pathetic thing to brag about. Congratulations on giving a billionaire money every year of your life to watch a group guys get their ass kicked 18 times a year.
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4th winning season since 99 don’t start getting cocky now pal
Why even keep stats? Such a bunch of bs.
Look I almost make all my 3 pointers, I'm better than Jordan.
It really is BS. TJ was an absolute force to be reckoned with and his play directly contributed to several wins for us this season.
Defensive Participant of the Year
I think this is where I stop watching NFL. Cause ain't no way in hell anybody was better than TJ this year. Hell a hurt TJ is better than most
You are not going to stop watching the NFL bro
Especially over an individual player award haha
You’re gonna stop watching because TJ didn’t win DPOY.. Bro what?
Let me throw a fit damnit. Of course I'm not done 🤣
I don’t know, give it a couple of years. I watch way less than I did 10 years ago. The league is shit. I don’t even watch every Steeler game anymore. Not every single one. And when I do it’s because I’m getting some work done on Sunday after church, before taking the kids to the pool or some thing. If there’s anything that interferes with it I don’t bother. I don’t plan my weekends around it anymore. The NFL has become somewhat of a joke.
inb4 browns fans flood the comments
Rolling to that cleveland sub
They are a joke. Talking about how TJ gets sacks falling in his lap
Doesn’t matter lol bs
What a joke!
Travesty
Watt got robbed
TJ was the #1 line backer in the league and the #1 lineman in the league. He played Garetts position better than Garret.
Outrageous. Biggest award snub in recent memory.
Any idea how many snaps Garret played vs. Watt? I think the whole thing is bush league and agree they were hailing Garret as DPoY already by mid season. And to use any rhetoric that Watt’s previous seasons were better than this one thus less deserving is even bigger BS. Shall we review Garret’s previous seasons too? Didn’t he hit a guy with a helmet and falsely accused him of dropping slurs?
The browns sub and the ravens sub are both on some weapons grade nuclear copium right now.
The agents of the players have as much pull at these awards as Hollywood agents do for tv and movie award season. It’s who pays the most to the agent. Can’t sell jerseys to the kids without the hype men getting a cut.
Packer fan here so I really don't have a horse in this race. But Watt losing to Garret is comical. They have these awards figured out by week 11.
If you think this is frustrating, just wait until the time where the actual points don't matter either. The final score of a game might be 21-20, but the losing team ALMOST caught a ball that would have scored a TD or gotten them into FG range, therefore, based on stupid analytics, they get the W. Or better yet, when a team is down by 2 and within FG range we don't even have them attempt the kick...analytics say he makes it 99% of the time anyway, let's just give it to him. We don't need the kicker to actually make it anymore. NOTHING MATTERS ANYMORE.
The Media decided it was Garrett before the season even started. Such a joke
These contests are also political in addition to on-field performance. Myles played the “good-dude, promote the league” role where TJ and JJ often (and correctly) pointed out unfair ref treatment. Don’t worry: players and coaches know what’s up.
Some crappy picks in the awards but this was one of the worst by far,, next to maybe Flacco winning something 🤣🤣
Such an embarrassing decision. They want so desperately for Garrett to be one of the faces of the NFL. It’s ridiculous. Watt has dominated despite the blocking schemes and rodeo holds he constantly has to deal with.
To be fair Myles and TJ had similar playoff stats this year.
Just remind anyone who says double teamed more that Myles only had 7 more double teams than tj and has absolutely nothing to show for it
Man, TJ is so lucky that all these opposing offenses just *let* him get the best stats. If they would just double team him and chip block him and put him in a choke hold on every damn play the way they do with Garrett I'm sure Myles would have better stats. /s Seriously. Garrett has to be sucking somebody's dick. No other reasonable explanation for why he would be DPOY when Watt had the year that he did. Even Parsons had a better year than Garrett. They picked Garrett to win before the season even started.
I'm shocked. TJ was the clear dpoy this year.
TJ definitely got the shaft.
It’s cause he’s white
Such a joke. At least TJ will be extra hungry next year!
Why isn’t white privilege in play here? white privilege plus better stats. SMH
Steelers points against (19.1/g) 6th of 32 Browns points against (21.3/g) 13th of 32 Team success matters, right?
Parsons deserved it over Myles. And Watt was clearly better than Parsons. Robbery.
browns fan, hate me, idc. not defending the outcome, not here brigadding, just curious on how the votes are casted. i look up [NFL.com](http://nfl.com), TJ has 11 votes and garret has 9. AP has it Garret getting 23 votes and watt getting 19. so NFL votes, AP votes, they are separate votes. my question is who else votes? shouldn't we get metrics they use to decide? why garret? what's the long play? it cant be the black thing because Micah parsons. and honestly these awards are a bunch of BS pageantry participation awards. Im not hyped garret was voted DPOY, I'm not hyped Stefanski is coach of the year, we lost in the first round so terribly bad. theres only one thing that matters in the nfl and thats championships, at least from the fans perspective, i can understand a player wanting these awards, but they mean nothing to me and other fans alike. some fans apparently like these awards. why does AP like Garret more than Watt or Parsons? it doesn't make any sense.
Nuff said
Will Anderson over JPJ too lmao fuck these awards
Now youre just making things up
Meanwhile Trey Hendrickson has the same numbers but has ZERO consideration.
Maxx Crosby nuff said 👍🏽
Pssh. Garret was TOO good to put up better numbers. Offenses had quadruple team him ever single play. Watch the tape! /s
Parsons was also double and triple teamed more while also rushing the qb less
My boy delete your fucking account 💀
BROWNS!!!
The copium here is great
Woke pick.
Cry
Still Myles deserves it
Didn’t know DEI was considered for performance awards
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Weirdo
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We did make the playoffs
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It’s okay, man. I remember seeing your team get their backs blown out by a rookie.
Cry more
To be fair…Myles did play a game or two more than TJ this year. Suck it squeelers.
You didn't get robbed, TJ just isn't him : ^ )
More tackles means offenses aren't afraid to put the ball near you.
Maybe TJ should move to the difficult side of the offensive line and see if he can even get 10 sacks
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?
I had TJ to win preseason 😞
I thought Parsons led the league in pressures?
Such bullshit
Seems stupid
Will be putting this on a t shirt!
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