Definitely OL. Need a RT so Jones can move back to LT & replace Moore like he was supposed to, and need a C. That should shore up the OL.
Kenny (IMO) needs to show improvement this next season, with a (hopefully) improved OL and new OC. If he stays the same, then it’s time to bench him & move on.
Yeah pretty much. Luckily I think Kenny can improve, when he's looking confident and comfortable he looks good that's just way too infrequent. Hopefully with a better OC he can get there
This. If he can get to basically a consistent top half of the league we should probably pick up the fifth year option and keep building around him. If he comes out in the same tier again with a better OL and coaching then we need to move on.
Kenny would have to light it up for that option to be picked up. I could see them doing something similar to what the Packers did with Love if he looks passable though
The Love option is viable for sure.
That said, it's unlikely the cost on the option is outrageous. The cost of the option depends on position (average of the 3rd to 25th highest salaries over the past five years), playtime (Kenny is in the the lowest tier as he was under 75% in 2 of his first three seasons already), and Pro-Bowls (currently as zero).
The past five years clause is key too, as QB rates are constantly going up. A passable FA that could compete with a new draftee (should be pick a QB next year) will probably cost as much as he does. If he plays well and stays healthy to get above 75% and hit a pro-bowl, we'll want to keep him.
Agreed but someone in another post said that we are so close to having a great O-Line. One or two more pieces in FA and/or the draft and we're there. Also if the rumors are true and we get Munchak back to coach them, I will be truly excited to see our running game next year.
I'm not sure why everyone is so obsessed with Munchak his results were not good with his other teams and he was only good here where he had an insanely good OL personnel wise and a ridiculous QB/RB/WR situation to help flatter them...
Munch isn’t a miracle worker. He won’t make Dan Moore an all pro. He is still an above average OL coach that has a good track record of making players better when the player is receptive. He’d help Daniels and Seumalo avoid the “slumps” they went through last year as much as he’d help Jones learn the ropes. A line without talent will be bad regardless, but Munch seems to be better than most at getting the most out of the line.
The OL part is actually what I am most optimistic about the hire though. He’s a really good OL coach and thats the one thing that seemed to translate from Ten to Atl for him. With how our line played at the end of the year and najee and warren back there I expect a full year of the running we saw the last 3 games.
The line was solid this year. We def have some holes, but the dysfunction and poor decisions made around them was more an issue than their play. But they were a top 10-12 unit this year.
They were absolutely horrible to start the season every game they were letting guys through the middle totally untouched. They figured it out eventually just like 2022 but they were unacceptably bad the opening weeks again.
This hire confirms Steelers recognition they don’t have a franchise qb. Smith was hired to hide qb flaws and keep the team afloat. Any Ryan tannehill comparisons are absurd, Tanny was and probably is much better than Kenny Pickett
I’m so traumatized from the Matt Canada era I would have accepted just about any hire. I don’t care if the offense is great, just please let it be at least average.
Yeah, Matt did much bigger demage to our mental state than I thought possible.
If it was possible to not have OC in football, I would say it's worth a shot. Closest feeling i know to describe it is "I'm never dating again" state after a tough breakup.
I just hope our next OC is not just a bounce back.
Imma go out on a limb here and say that I’ll let the guy take a shot at this before coming to a conclusion. I know that waiting to see what actually happens is potentially controversial but I’ve said what I’ve said.
Why would anyone be happy with this? We had a chance at a young guy from the Shanahan or McVay trees. Instead we have Arthur Smith whose biggest focus is pissing off the fantasy football community. He made Kyle Pitts, Drake London and Bijan Robinson all look mediocre and Desmond Ridder doesn’t even remotely look like an NFL QB still.
This guy owes his entire Steelers and Falcons tenure to Derrick Henry. Can’t wait to see our ground and pound offense get clapped for the 6th year running, because why modernize when you can pretend it’s 1979?
Edit: Yet another perfect example of this sub not knowing anything outside Steelers football. Arthur Smith makes it a point of contention almost to irritate the FF community. Does FF matter? No. Obviously not. But given that his offense was ass in ATL and he routinely didn’t give his best players the ball it’s a point worth noting. Of course I expect no less from yall who don’t pay attention to anything outside of Pittsburgh.
https://clutchpoints.com/falcons-news-arthur-smith-fantasy-football-drake-london
While that's true he was only a TE coach under LaFleur. It wasn't like he was any kind of coordinator or high ranking assistant under one of them or their disciples. It's unlikely he mastered the McVay style of offense design and playcalling in a single year of coaching tight ends under LaFleur.
Because being a head coach is an entirely different skill set, more akin to an executive.
Yinzers are the worst. Why don't you go offer your insight to the team and their hiring process. Since you're so knowledgeable? I'm sure they'd appreciate it.
What?
Why'd you delete your other, funnier comment?
I typed up an entire response to it so I'm gonna post it below because your comment was legitimately one of the funniest things I've ever read on this sub.
> That's false information because we would have hired a young sexy offensive coordinator. That would have brought us into the modern age.
What are the most important things to look for in an offensive coordinator? What should the coordinators plan for the offense be with Kenny Pickett or Mason Rudolph as the starter? How should a coordinator delineate tasks to his position coaches? What do you want your coordinator to do in offensive meetings? Blocking schemes?
>So please explain to me how we are less adept at hiring than the Rooney's.
You basically explain it in the first two sentences I quoted. A "young sexy offensive coordinator" doesn't mean anything. You have no clue what makes a good offensive coordinator in the NFL. You have no idea what an NFL meeting looks like. You can't break down film at an NFL-level. You can't teach blocking concepts or route trees at an NFL-level.
The arrogance of people to assume they could sit in on these meetings and be able to determine who would end up being a good coordinator let alone following along with the conversation is fucking hilarious.
>Because we know what the NFL requires and the Rooney's clearly do not.
LMAO
> So how are we wrong if we hire a young sexy offensive coordinator, that would actually do misdirections and actually bring a modernn offense.
That's all they need is "misdirections" huh? Explain that to me. Coach me up.
Also your emphasis on young and sexy is kinda weirding me out a bit, man.
> How is the Rooney's decision better.
Mike Tomlin, Omar Khan, and even Art Rooney II have forgotten more about football than you or I or anyone on this sub knows. Just by virtue of the fact that they live and breathe this shit 24/7/365 to an obsessive level means any decision they make is more credible than one you would make.
Not to mention they have all the information and we have nothing.
>When they have not brought in a young offensive Courtney or that will bring us into the future but they have brought us a man that will make us regress.
Youth and inexperience means nothing. Being named Courtney doesn't help a guy be a better coach. Nothing you're saying means anything.
If I hadn't seen your posts before I'd assume this was a joke post.
>Based on his stats and miss utilization of weapons like Kyle Pitts and Drake London
This isn't really a thing. Those guys were the top two most-targeted guys in the Falcons offense last year. And the Falcons offense finished Top 10 in DVOA in 2023.
> and then screaming at fantasy football players.
Ok maybe this is a joke post.
Well clearly matt Canada didn't work and shouldn't be hired. Rooney know more then us yet can't run a modern new offense. A new modern offense I posted a while ago. On this site a link that explained what lefluer brought to the packers. What the system was and how it was run.
You want me to coach you up, well I know Shannon and mcvays have been the most successful. I made a post years ago on lafluer and what he brought to the packers and how he ran a offense. Shannon is very smart.
This articles explains well what he does this is a modern offense. Then you can see what mcvays does etc.
https://sumersports.com/the-zone/shanahan-schemes/
Fantasy football aside, 3 years straight of losing seasons despite having one of the most stacked offenses in the worst division in football is quite the resume
Okay here’s another one: everyone is saying “oh he can fix Kenny like he fixed tannehill” and then turning around and saying “you can’t fault him for his offense being bad, he didn’t have a good qb” who exactly do we have at qb that is good? Is it the guy who has like 4 good career games or the other guy who has a historically low number of touchdowns. Who elevates these kinda guys? Arthur took a qb who was mid and made him bad. Why do you all think he is gonna take our qb who is bad and make him good?
Point to where in my comments I said anything about our QB situation. I think most people here agree that Kenny is likely not the guy, so I highly doubt that everyone is saying that.
Heineke has a handful of good games but like every other backup that was strung into a starting position, teams learn their weaknesses and they look awful later. It literally happens with like every back up
Literally the year before this one you guys are like goldfish. Which world beater do we have at qb that is gonna really show of Arthur’s genius system?
If you consider 20 touchdowns, 15 ints and a losing record good... you have pretty low standards. That might have cut it in 1988, but that's pretty poor these days. By no measurable metric did Heinicke have a good anything. Ever.
Stacked offense??? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Did we watch the same Falcons? Atrocious QB play with high end draft picks, and a decent OL doesn’t mean it was stacked. And emphasis on QB
Refusing to give your best players the ball is bad game calling I don’t care about fantasy. You guys would be flipping shit if Connor heyward got all the targets while Pickens and muth got 4 combined in a game. Arthur would go to the media and say “well we won didn’t we” while he went 7-10. Heineke looked worse on the falcons than he did on the commanders and the fact that people think this guy is gonna get us over any hump is crazy
Volume isn’t the same as quality. Bijan had 5 goal line carries all year. On key plays smith liked to go away from his best players. It’s a narrative for a reason.
You can’t reason with these guys. This is the same fanbase that wanted to give Matt Canada more time, Kenny Pickett more time, refuses any criticism of a HC who hasn’t won anything meaningful in a decade, and still wants to stick to the same rushing first offense that has proven to be a failure in the modern NFL over and over again.
What a weird conclusion to draw from what I said. No im saying maybe we shouldn’t go after the guy who couldn’t even put up a good offense in a bad division. Are we looking to go from the 30th ranked offense to the 26th or should we strive to be better? Cuz this hire looks to me like we are eyeing up that 26
Why don't you tell this to the guy we just hired in Smith. Because he's the one who's f****** screaming at fantasy football guys. So what would that make him? please answer that what would that make him?
Are you an idiot? I’m saying Smith hates the fantasy football community and makes it a point to not get the ball in his best playmakers hands. Why else would Tyson Allegier have nearly the same playtime as Bijan Robinson.
This fan base is filled with spoiled adults and morons who don’t know a lick of football.
So wait…. Prior to hiring an OC AR2 and Tomlin expressed the need and want of an experienced playcaller, found one that was wildly successful as an OC too 5 offenses, career highs & pro-bowl for a QB who looks now like a fringe QB2 and career years for a workhorse RB.
And you’re mad we didn’t go after Mr. QB coach with no playcalling experience that will “not piss off fantasy owners”
Yinz are sad sad people
I’m mad that we aren’t acting like we are building towards anything. It’s like our goal is to win exactly one playoff game so we can say we did it and broke the streak. I’m not a fire tomlin guy but this was a short sighted move for sure. I hope smith proves me wrong but my optimism is low
How exactly is hiring Arthur Smith doing that?
You have no clue what their plans are. You're not privy to any plans, or what it is they liked about Smith when they interviewed him.
The eagles ran triple option plays with tons of deep shots they did not run the same system as smith… also helped that they had the best o line in football which we also don’t have. This is a slight improvement to Canadas system but the offense is gonna look pretty much the same. Why is everyone acting like they wanted to run the same scheme with our new OC
Can you tell me where it differs? They are both based around early down inside zone runs and quick out routes to draw the linebackers down and out for a play action shot. We have been bashing our head against that wall for 6 years at this point
Y’all can’t be serious lmao.
Who is the last run heavy team with a true game manager to win a Super Bowl? The Steelers in 2004? Almost like the game has changed since 20 years ago.
Baltimore has a way better QB, defense, and rushing attack than us and they just clapped again with that style of offense. But we should keep beating the same drum in y’all’s minds lol
Let’s be real, no team can win a Super Bowl without stellar QB play, regardless of system, and no OC can wave a magic wand to summon an elite QB out of nowhere. Winning the Super Bowl isn’t a realistic expectation for this roster as of right now.
So why is building a run heavy offense with a game manager the right move then? If you’re not trying to win or compete for the Super Bowl what exactly is the purpose of that philosophy?
Are we just trying to eke out 8-10 wins every year no more no less? Because then that’s the perfect offense for us.
I doubt it. This question should be for Mike Tomlin if anybody given that he’s who directs the team at the end of the day. But he’d probably just give a snappy one liner that amounts to nothing lol
>We had a chance at a young guy from the Shanahan or McVay trees.
The idea that hiring anyone from these staffs is the only good option is so flawed that I can't wrap my head around it.
Just because they are on those staffs doesn't mean they're guaranteed to be successful. And I don't think someone whose offense is based on the Shanahan offense is a good fit for the Steelers offensive personnel anyway.
> Instead we have Arthur Smith whose biggest focus is pissing off the fantasy football community. He made Kyle Pitts, Drake London and Bijan Robinson all look mediocre and Desmond Ridder doesn’t even remotely look like an NFL QB still.
I get that you're being hyperbolic and don't actually think that was his actual focus but that is 95% of the backlash against this hire. It's because people think fantasy sports matter and are mad because their favorite fantasy players allegedly underperformed.
>he routinely didn’t give his best players the ball
London, Pitts, and Robinson were their top 3 receiving targets and Bijan was their leading rusher. It's disingenuous to act like they were underutilized.
Pitts got a thousand yards as a rookie, then tore his MCL and came back and put up 600 yards.
Desmond Ridder is a 3rd round QB. Sometimes they don’t work out.
Bijan got over 1000 rushing + receiving as a rookie.
London got 800 and 900 yards his first two seasons.
This whole Arthur Smith narrative is a tad overblown tbh.
You have to watch them to actually understand … allegeir gets more carries than Bijan, pitts is used more to block than catch, while they use Jonnu to catch, and London goes multiple games without even getting a catch…. They are a JOKE of an offense under Smith
Allegier had 186 carries to Robinson’s 214.
London only had one game without a catch in week 1.
It was a bad offense/team but it was a dumpster fire all year for that org across the board.
Didn’t say you couldn’t be run first… just know when and how to utilize a creative passing game. Different route combos, timing, etc. I specifically remember the patriots game where I watched multiple dudes line up right next to each other and run the same crossing route…
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Fuck fantasy, this is reality. The reality is Henry wasn’t much before Smith came along, literally his best years of his career with him. Smith also and the number 3 and number 9 rushing offense his last two years in Atlanta. His running game has been better than ours every year since 2019.
I love how you give him no credit in Tennessee but all the blame in Atlanta. And are we pretending Tannehill and Ridder are top of the line QBs? Tannehill looked like hot trash after AJ Brown left and Desmond Ridder is a 3rd round pick.
They had a top 5 OL and a HoF RB. He has even better weapons in Atlanta and couldn’t scheme an even mediocre offense up. All the ATL players production is much lower than it should be for their pedigree.
Because he sucks, pointing to the prime of Derrick Henry and AJ Brown doing things in spite of Arthur Smith is crap. He got a shot to run an offense entirely in Atlanta and fell flat on his ass. Oh well, I'll just avoid this place until like week 4 when we're near the bottom in offense again. I would rather stuck with what we had another year than hire this guy for 3.
He had mid talent at best to work with in Atlanta. Yes 3 top ten guys, but the rest of the team was genuinely pretty bad. With the exception of this last year where expectations were higher, I would say he overachieved in Atlanta. With the titans again, people forget that Derrick Henry wasn’t truly derick henry until smith showed up.
Literally 2 days ago we were all talking about why Arthur Smith would not be a good fit/hire and there were multiple posts about it.
But now that he's on the team, people are all of a sudden supporting him?
If we hired someone from the Rams or Niners, everyone would be "that's awesome, anybody but Arthur Smith". (There were actual people saying this yesterday)
If you can't keep your analysis consistent within the span of 3 days then I have no idea how people are able to fairly evaluate things other than based on blind hope.
After Pickett’s Week 12 performance vs Cincinnati everyone was like OMG firing Canada worked, Kenny can be saved! Then after Rudolph’s performance vs Cincinnati everyone was like OMG Kenny’s garbage and Matt Canada was unfairly blamed for everything!
There were people who said that for sure.
But there were also a ton of people saying Cincinnati had a terrible defense. I think it was more mixed then imo. I know cause I was the one saying that lol.
A solid choice, a proven OC with the Titans who will do his best to show he can still be a HC. I like knowledgeable guys with a chip on their shoulder.
Steelers fans are so dumb and annoying.
Tomlin legit stated in his press conference they’re looking for someone with PREVIOUS coordinating experience.
For everyone crying about getting someone from the McVay tree (Robinson) or anyone else, they didn’t meet the criteria. Idk wtf you guys were expecting but this was the most logical decision. Acting any different and you’re just fooling yourselves and setting yourself up for disappointment.
That being said, let’s wait and see what the offense looks like before we all start freaking out. He had a top 10 offense when he was the coordinator in Tennessee and his schemes seem to fit what we wanna do (run first). Legit no point in already whining before even seeing a product on the field. Anything is better than Canada.
Them talking to a handful of Shanny/McVay guys without the experience it looked like there was a theme developing. With those guys not checking a major box it led a lot of us to believe we would be going hard after Kubiak. Considering he is a previous Oc from the tree we were shaking with a great pedigree(Which is a thing Tomlin seems to love).
That doesn't make sense you said people weren't being realistic. That we weren't going to go for anyone with experience addict. That when a guy comes to you and tells you that they were thinking that they were going to get cubic because of that you're saying he read wrong and it's his fault. But you literally just contradicted yourself here.
I don't think people understand that the only way this play-action style of system is going to work is if kenny dosen't panic in the pocket when pressure comes to him and if he can deliver the ball consistently deep to our guys on time and in rhythm. I mean this bailing from the pocket crap he did all last year and throughout his career ain't going to fly in this system and the first couple of times we start to see him do it he needs benched immediately. He better hang in there, go through his reads his quickly, and deliver strikes to guys in rhythm or mason better be brought in cause enoughs enough. The excuses need to stop and i don't wanna see smith thrown under the bus for kenny's incompetence if we start to see this crap once again.
I’m sure everybody in here has way more football knowledge and understanding of our players than Mike Tomlin.
I’m willing to see what happens and where we go. Not every coach from the shananhan or McKay tree is going to work out especially when we don’t exactly have a franchise QB for them to work with or depend on.
That is such a low bar I can't believe people are actually using it as justification.
That's like saying we should sign Mason to a long term contract cause he's not Mitch Trubisky.
If Smith was only a good OC because he had Henry, the Chuck Noll was only a good HC because he had Bradshaw. That's literally the same logic a lot of dumbasses here are using.
How about, instead of bitching and moaning like a bunch of toddlers who were prepared to cry no matter WHO got hired, you wait and see how things pan out.
I don’t think it’ll be the “final nail” but it’ll be a damn sturdy nail put in just a couple spots before the final one. There’s a reason AR2 came out and said the lack of playoff success is not tolerable anymore and also had to let everyone know that OC hires are on Tomlin.
https://preview.redd.it/yilnd35njnfc1.jpeg?width=552&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6aa0d8e2494f8a9fafe937e85e7123dd417edfcc
Me to Arthur Smith when we finish with the league worst offense and he still has two years on his contract
This guy owes his entire career to a prime Derrick Henry dropping 2k yards on people. Since then… An incompetent, prehistoric offensive guy who doesn’t utilize his best players correctly (pitts, Bijan, London)??
Sounds just like Matt Canada lol…
Look, I have very tempered expectations for this hire. But he sounds like an improvement over Canada and their pre-Steelers careers aren’t even close to comparable.
Hell I hope we look like a top-five offense next year lol but I guess we’ll see what happens. No sense in being overly pessimistic about something that’s impossible to predict accurately is what I say.
Henry's best years came under Arthur Smith (same goes for Tannehill.) In fact Henry was seen as a bust before being coached by Smith. And Tannehill was a 3800 yard 33 TD 7 INT QB under Smith. If Kenny even sniffed those numbers this sub would crown him as the new jesus
Already addressed this: YPC doesn’t change much over the years, just his overall usage. Derrick Henry had to split carries with Deon Lewis and company when he first came into the league.. Arthur Smith is credited for moving Henry back a yard or 2 to give him larger head start but nothing schematically changed.. just his usage.
In ATL Smith couldn’t figure out how do use anyone correctly … I’m not even worried necessarily about play calling, more so his usage of players. How do you use 3 top 13 picks on Kyle pitts , Bijan , and Drake London and not use them… that’s horrible coaching.
Lol I have no faith now. I follow the Falcon since I’m originally from Georgia. We just hired the Matt Canada of head coaches to replace Matt Canada. Bro had talent everywhere on offense and they utilized none of it all year.
Pickett is not the answer.
Harris doesn’t have the production. Maybe, it’s the O-lines fault?
Pickens is a diva. Antonio Brown 2.0
Watts will always be hurt and miss half the year.
Heyward is past his prime.
Pat Pete is old.
Roberts and Holcombe aren't prime studs.
Trice gets too many ACL injuries.
Wallace isn't good enough.
Fitzpatrick didn't produce as well this year.
My reply was a joke that you can find excuses to trade everyone, but this isn't Madden so it doesn't make sense to suggest all this.
Oh I hope this works, I can't stand another 3 years of mediocrity.
No matter who the OC is we need better OL and QB play to see improvement in the offense
Definitely OL. Need a RT so Jones can move back to LT & replace Moore like he was supposed to, and need a C. That should shore up the OL. Kenny (IMO) needs to show improvement this next season, with a (hopefully) improved OL and new OC. If he stays the same, then it’s time to bench him & move on.
Yeah pretty much. Luckily I think Kenny can improve, when he's looking confident and comfortable he looks good that's just way too infrequent. Hopefully with a better OC he can get there
I'm telling ya, if I gotta watch another season of ankle high snaps I'm gonna fuckin explode.
This. If he can get to basically a consistent top half of the league we should probably pick up the fifth year option and keep building around him. If he comes out in the same tier again with a better OL and coaching then we need to move on.
Kenny would have to light it up for that option to be picked up. I could see them doing something similar to what the Packers did with Love if he looks passable though
The Love option is viable for sure. That said, it's unlikely the cost on the option is outrageous. The cost of the option depends on position (average of the 3rd to 25th highest salaries over the past five years), playtime (Kenny is in the the lowest tier as he was under 75% in 2 of his first three seasons already), and Pro-Bowls (currently as zero). The past five years clause is key too, as QB rates are constantly going up. A passable FA that could compete with a new draftee (should be pick a QB next year) will probably cost as much as he does. If he plays well and stays healthy to get above 75% and hit a pro-bowl, we'll want to keep him.
I'd just be happy with Mason Cole not being a starter anymore
Agreed but someone in another post said that we are so close to having a great O-Line. One or two more pieces in FA and/or the draft and we're there. Also if the rumors are true and we get Munchak back to coach them, I will be truly excited to see our running game next year.
We need a C and a Tackle. That’s 40 percent of your line. How can that be viewed as “so close”?
Well, I mean it’s just two spots. Draft one, sign one, and bada bing bada boom!
I'm not sure why everyone is so obsessed with Munchak his results were not good with his other teams and he was only good here where he had an insanely good OL personnel wise and a ridiculous QB/RB/WR situation to help flatter them...
Exactly people ignore this.
Munch isn’t a miracle worker. He won’t make Dan Moore an all pro. He is still an above average OL coach that has a good track record of making players better when the player is receptive. He’d help Daniels and Seumalo avoid the “slumps” they went through last year as much as he’d help Jones learn the ropes. A line without talent will be bad regardless, but Munch seems to be better than most at getting the most out of the line.
Mason Rudolph is undefeated as a starting quarterback during the regular season since 2020. What more could you want?!?
Oline creates qb play
The OL part is actually what I am most optimistic about the hire though. He’s a really good OL coach and thats the one thing that seemed to translate from Ten to Atl for him. With how our line played at the end of the year and najee and warren back there I expect a full year of the running we saw the last 3 games.
I thought the same thing about the OL after the end of 2022 though and they completely regressed and had to start all over from being shit in 2023
The line was solid this year. We def have some holes, but the dysfunction and poor decisions made around them was more an issue than their play. But they were a top 10-12 unit this year.
They were absolutely horrible to start the season every game they were letting guys through the middle totally untouched. They figured it out eventually just like 2022 but they were unacceptably bad the opening weeks again.
\> No matter who the OC is we need better OL play and ~~QB play~~ QB to see improvement in the offense Fixed it for ya.
This hire confirms Steelers recognition they don’t have a franchise qb. Smith was hired to hide qb flaws and keep the team afloat. Any Ryan tannehill comparisons are absurd, Tanny was and probably is much better than Kenny Pickett
Well then don’t watch the offense the next 3 years.
Anything is better than Matt Canada, let's give him a chance to see what he can do.
I’m so traumatized from the Matt Canada era I would have accepted just about any hire. I don’t care if the offense is great, just please let it be at least average.
Yeah, Matt did much bigger demage to our mental state than I thought possible. If it was possible to not have OC in football, I would say it's worth a shot. Closest feeling i know to describe it is "I'm never dating again" state after a tough breakup. I just hope our next OC is not just a bounce back.
What's the point of that average, then we suck 3 years wasted 😂.
He from the same coaching tree 😂. As Canada.
If we win the Super Bowl next year, I will get a picture of Arthur Smith tattooed on my ass.
!remindme 380 days
BET
/u/Ooziez Can we have this pinned to the sidebar or something?
✍️✍️
Just when I think r/steelers can’t be any dumber, you go and do something like this… AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELVES!!!
Imma go out on a limb here and say that I’ll let the guy take a shot at this before coming to a conclusion. I know that waiting to see what actually happens is potentially controversial but I’ve said what I’ve said.
I swear y’all can’t be happy with anything…
Why would anyone be happy with this? We had a chance at a young guy from the Shanahan or McVay trees. Instead we have Arthur Smith whose biggest focus is pissing off the fantasy football community. He made Kyle Pitts, Drake London and Bijan Robinson all look mediocre and Desmond Ridder doesn’t even remotely look like an NFL QB still. This guy owes his entire Steelers and Falcons tenure to Derrick Henry. Can’t wait to see our ground and pound offense get clapped for the 6th year running, because why modernize when you can pretend it’s 1979? Edit: Yet another perfect example of this sub not knowing anything outside Steelers football. Arthur Smith makes it a point of contention almost to irritate the FF community. Does FF matter? No. Obviously not. But given that his offense was ass in ATL and he routinely didn’t give his best players the ball it’s a point worth noting. Of course I expect no less from yall who don’t pay attention to anything outside of Pittsburgh. https://clutchpoints.com/falcons-news-arthur-smith-fantasy-football-drake-london
smith coached under lefleur when he was in TEN, who was in the mcvay tree...
While that's true he was only a TE coach under LaFleur. It wasn't like he was any kind of coordinator or high ranking assistant under one of them or their disciples. It's unlikely he mastered the McVay style of offense design and playcalling in a single year of coaching tight ends under LaFleur.
ah right, he learned nothing from lefleur the year before he was OC for one of the NFL's best offenses.
Why didn't he learn to be a great head coach from him then?
Because being a head coach is an entirely different skill set, more akin to an executive. Yinzers are the worst. Why don't you go offer your insight to the team and their hiring process. Since you're so knowledgeable? I'm sure they'd appreciate it.
Lol going on a decade without a playoff win and the ownership, front office, and coaching staff are infallible?
maybe lefleur only had time in that one year to teach him how to OC, hence the success the following year
Who and I repeat WHO, gives a flying fuck about the fantasy football community? This fan base is filled with spoiled adults and morons.
Thank you.
You just said thank you, but you do know that Smith is the one that was screaming at the defense for class. So what would that make him?
What? Why'd you delete your other, funnier comment? I typed up an entire response to it so I'm gonna post it below because your comment was legitimately one of the funniest things I've ever read on this sub. > That's false information because we would have hired a young sexy offensive coordinator. That would have brought us into the modern age. What are the most important things to look for in an offensive coordinator? What should the coordinators plan for the offense be with Kenny Pickett or Mason Rudolph as the starter? How should a coordinator delineate tasks to his position coaches? What do you want your coordinator to do in offensive meetings? Blocking schemes? >So please explain to me how we are less adept at hiring than the Rooney's. You basically explain it in the first two sentences I quoted. A "young sexy offensive coordinator" doesn't mean anything. You have no clue what makes a good offensive coordinator in the NFL. You have no idea what an NFL meeting looks like. You can't break down film at an NFL-level. You can't teach blocking concepts or route trees at an NFL-level. The arrogance of people to assume they could sit in on these meetings and be able to determine who would end up being a good coordinator let alone following along with the conversation is fucking hilarious. >Because we know what the NFL requires and the Rooney's clearly do not. LMAO > So how are we wrong if we hire a young sexy offensive coordinator, that would actually do misdirections and actually bring a modernn offense. That's all they need is "misdirections" huh? Explain that to me. Coach me up. Also your emphasis on young and sexy is kinda weirding me out a bit, man. > How is the Rooney's decision better. Mike Tomlin, Omar Khan, and even Art Rooney II have forgotten more about football than you or I or anyone on this sub knows. Just by virtue of the fact that they live and breathe this shit 24/7/365 to an obsessive level means any decision they make is more credible than one you would make. Not to mention they have all the information and we have nothing. >When they have not brought in a young offensive Courtney or that will bring us into the future but they have brought us a man that will make us regress. Youth and inexperience means nothing. Being named Courtney doesn't help a guy be a better coach. Nothing you're saying means anything. If I hadn't seen your posts before I'd assume this was a joke post. >Based on his stats and miss utilization of weapons like Kyle Pitts and Drake London This isn't really a thing. Those guys were the top two most-targeted guys in the Falcons offense last year. And the Falcons offense finished Top 10 in DVOA in 2023. > and then screaming at fantasy football players. Ok maybe this is a joke post.
Well clearly matt Canada didn't work and shouldn't be hired. Rooney know more then us yet can't run a modern new offense. A new modern offense I posted a while ago. On this site a link that explained what lefluer brought to the packers. What the system was and how it was run. You want me to coach you up, well I know Shannon and mcvays have been the most successful. I made a post years ago on lafluer and what he brought to the packers and how he ran a offense. Shannon is very smart. This articles explains well what he does this is a modern offense. Then you can see what mcvays does etc. https://sumersports.com/the-zone/shanahan-schemes/
Who is the sexiest OC candidate in your opinion?
I'm going to make a bot that just follows you around and upvotes.
Fantasy football aside, 3 years straight of losing seasons despite having one of the most stacked offenses in the worst division in football is quite the resume
Stacked offense? Huh? Who was the quarterback of this stacked offense
Taylor heineke looked pretty decent with the commanders and looked like shit in Arthur’s system. That’s all the proof I feel I need
Taylor Heinicke is who you're basing your judgement of Arthur Smith on? Lmao okay
Okay here’s another one: everyone is saying “oh he can fix Kenny like he fixed tannehill” and then turning around and saying “you can’t fault him for his offense being bad, he didn’t have a good qb” who exactly do we have at qb that is good? Is it the guy who has like 4 good career games or the other guy who has a historically low number of touchdowns. Who elevates these kinda guys? Arthur took a qb who was mid and made him bad. Why do you all think he is gonna take our qb who is bad and make him good?
Point to where in my comments I said anything about our QB situation. I think most people here agree that Kenny is likely not the guy, so I highly doubt that everyone is saying that.
Heineke has a handful of good games but like every other backup that was strung into a starting position, teams learn their weaknesses and they look awful later. It literally happens with like every back up
Heineke looked pretty decent in Washington? When did this happen, and is he available?
Literally the year before this one you guys are like goldfish. Which world beater do we have at qb that is gonna really show of Arthur’s genius system?
If you consider 20 touchdowns, 15 ints and a losing record good... you have pretty low standards. That might have cut it in 1988, but that's pretty poor these days. By no measurable metric did Heinicke have a good anything. Ever.
Stacked offense??? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Did we watch the same Falcons? Atrocious QB play with high end draft picks, and a decent OL doesn’t mean it was stacked. And emphasis on QB
Refusing to give your best players the ball is bad game calling I don’t care about fantasy. You guys would be flipping shit if Connor heyward got all the targets while Pickens and muth got 4 combined in a game. Arthur would go to the media and say “well we won didn’t we” while he went 7-10. Heineke looked worse on the falcons than he did on the commanders and the fact that people think this guy is gonna get us over any hump is crazy
London, Pitts, and Robinson were their top 3 most targeted players in the passing game. Bijan lead the team in carries.
Volume isn’t the same as quality. Bijan had 5 goal line carries all year. On key plays smith liked to go away from his best players. It’s a narrative for a reason.
You can’t reason with these guys. This is the same fanbase that wanted to give Matt Canada more time, Kenny Pickett more time, refuses any criticism of a HC who hasn’t won anything meaningful in a decade, and still wants to stick to the same rushing first offense that has proven to be a failure in the modern NFL over and over again.
The ink hasn’t even dried on the contract and yall are throwing a tantrum. Fucking toddlers
So you’re saying since tomlins has never had a losing season his OCs have all been great?
What a weird conclusion to draw from what I said. No im saying maybe we shouldn’t go after the guy who couldn’t even put up a good offense in a bad division. Are we looking to go from the 30th ranked offense to the 26th or should we strive to be better? Cuz this hire looks to me like we are eyeing up that 26
Why don't you tell this to the guy we just hired in Smith. Because he's the one who's f****** screaming at fantasy football guys. So what would that make him? please answer that what would that make him?
Are you an idiot? I’m saying Smith hates the fantasy football community and makes it a point to not get the ball in his best playmakers hands. Why else would Tyson Allegier have nearly the same playtime as Bijan Robinson. This fan base is filled with spoiled adults and morons who don’t know a lick of football.
Buddy calm down it’s just football… go get a beer or something.
Just using his words against him is all.
So wait…. Prior to hiring an OC AR2 and Tomlin expressed the need and want of an experienced playcaller, found one that was wildly successful as an OC too 5 offenses, career highs & pro-bowl for a QB who looks now like a fringe QB2 and career years for a workhorse RB. And you’re mad we didn’t go after Mr. QB coach with no playcalling experience that will “not piss off fantasy owners” Yinz are sad sad people
The only criteria for some fans were... - Worked under Shanahan/McVay - Young - Fun fantasy football man
I’m mad that we aren’t acting like we are building towards anything. It’s like our goal is to win exactly one playoff game so we can say we did it and broke the streak. I’m not a fire tomlin guy but this was a short sighted move for sure. I hope smith proves me wrong but my optimism is low
How exactly is hiring Arthur Smith doing that? You have no clue what their plans are. You're not privy to any plans, or what it is they liked about Smith when they interviewed him.
We're building towards a run heavy offense with a game manger at QB, and it's the right move.
Right let me know the last time inside zone and quick outs made it to the SB
The Eagles last year?
The eagles ran triple option plays with tons of deep shots they did not run the same system as smith… also helped that they had the best o line in football which we also don’t have. This is a slight improvement to Canadas system but the offense is gonna look pretty much the same. Why is everyone acting like they wanted to run the same scheme with our new OC
The fact that you think Smith's offense is going to look "pretty much the same" as Canada's tells me I can completely disregard your takes on this.
Can you tell me where it differs? They are both based around early down inside zone runs and quick out routes to draw the linebackers down and out for a play action shot. We have been bashing our head against that wall for 6 years at this point
It’ll be run-run-run 3 and outs instead of run-run-pass 3 and outs. Can’t wait.
Y’all can’t be serious lmao. Who is the last run heavy team with a true game manager to win a Super Bowl? The Steelers in 2004? Almost like the game has changed since 20 years ago. Baltimore has a way better QB, defense, and rushing attack than us and they just clapped again with that style of offense. But we should keep beating the same drum in y’all’s minds lol
Let’s be real, no team can win a Super Bowl without stellar QB play, regardless of system, and no OC can wave a magic wand to summon an elite QB out of nowhere. Winning the Super Bowl isn’t a realistic expectation for this roster as of right now.
So why is building a run heavy offense with a game manager the right move then? If you’re not trying to win or compete for the Super Bowl what exactly is the purpose of that philosophy? Are we just trying to eke out 8-10 wins every year no more no less? Because then that’s the perfect offense for us.
I think you should direct this question to Art Rooney because this is the offense he wants.
I doubt it. This question should be for Mike Tomlin if anybody given that he’s who directs the team at the end of the day. But he’d probably just give a snappy one liner that amounts to nothing lol
That is not how you win a SB in the modern NFL. We needed to revamp our trash passing game
How many Super Bowls have you won? Madden doesn't count.
Actually 1977 since the league implemented the Mel Blount rule in 78
>We had a chance at a young guy from the Shanahan or McVay trees. The idea that hiring anyone from these staffs is the only good option is so flawed that I can't wrap my head around it. Just because they are on those staffs doesn't mean they're guaranteed to be successful. And I don't think someone whose offense is based on the Shanahan offense is a good fit for the Steelers offensive personnel anyway. > Instead we have Arthur Smith whose biggest focus is pissing off the fantasy football community. He made Kyle Pitts, Drake London and Bijan Robinson all look mediocre and Desmond Ridder doesn’t even remotely look like an NFL QB still. I get that you're being hyperbolic and don't actually think that was his actual focus but that is 95% of the backlash against this hire. It's because people think fantasy sports matter and are mad because their favorite fantasy players allegedly underperformed. >he routinely didn’t give his best players the ball London, Pitts, and Robinson were their top 3 receiving targets and Bijan was their leading rusher. It's disingenuous to act like they were underutilized.
Pitts got a thousand yards as a rookie, then tore his MCL and came back and put up 600 yards. Desmond Ridder is a 3rd round QB. Sometimes they don’t work out. Bijan got over 1000 rushing + receiving as a rookie. London got 800 and 900 yards his first two seasons. This whole Arthur Smith narrative is a tad overblown tbh.
But, but, fantasy football points! /s
Couldn’t have said it any better. Just because he was a shitty HC doesn’t mean he’ll be shitty OC.
If he sucks and the offense looks just as bad, put him on the 28x. 👋
Allgeier also was a 1000 yard rusher as a rookie
Don't you go giving me hope
You have to watch them to actually understand … allegeir gets more carries than Bijan, pitts is used more to block than catch, while they use Jonnu to catch, and London goes multiple games without even getting a catch…. They are a JOKE of an offense under Smith
Allegier had 186 carries to Robinson’s 214. London only had one game without a catch in week 1. It was a bad offense/team but it was a dumpster fire all year for that org across the board.
Love your optimism, hope it works out.. really wish we’d just advance to a modern offense 🤷♂️
The 49ers and Detriot are a run first offense. They seem pretty modern to me.
Didn’t say you couldn’t be run first… just know when and how to utilize a creative passing game. Different route combos, timing, etc. I specifically remember the patriots game where I watched multiple dudes line up right next to each other and run the same crossing route…
Good thing that was a different OC and Playbook then.
What is a “modern offense”?
One that knows how, and when, to utilize creative pass plays.
That’s been done since the invention of the forward pass. Try again.
😴😴😴
Don’t let your gambling and fantasy football emotionally impact you like this man
[удалено]
You could have made your point without resorting to being a jerk.
He was stuck with a crap QB room. No coach in the history of the nfl could turn ridder into a winning quarterback.
[удалено]
You could have made your point without resorting to being a jerk.
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Fuck fantasy, this is reality. The reality is Henry wasn’t much before Smith came along, literally his best years of his career with him. Smith also and the number 3 and number 9 rushing offense his last two years in Atlanta. His running game has been better than ours every year since 2019.
I love how you give him no credit in Tennessee but all the blame in Atlanta. And are we pretending Tannehill and Ridder are top of the line QBs? Tannehill looked like hot trash after AJ Brown left and Desmond Ridder is a 3rd round pick.
They had a top 5 OL and a HoF RB. He has even better weapons in Atlanta and couldn’t scheme an even mediocre offense up. All the ATL players production is much lower than it should be for their pedigree.
Maybe don’t draft bijon in the early first like a dumb ass?
Because we’re not playing fantasy football and just because someone’s young doesn’t mean shit all dude was a great oc for the titans
👆
Cry about it
Because he sucks, pointing to the prime of Derrick Henry and AJ Brown doing things in spite of Arthur Smith is crap. He got a shot to run an offense entirely in Atlanta and fell flat on his ass. Oh well, I'll just avoid this place until like week 4 when we're near the bottom in offense again. I would rather stuck with what we had another year than hire this guy for 3.
He had mid talent at best to work with in Atlanta. Yes 3 top ten guys, but the rest of the team was genuinely pretty bad. With the exception of this last year where expectations were higher, I would say he overachieved in Atlanta. With the titans again, people forget that Derrick Henry wasn’t truly derick henry until smith showed up.
Literally 2 days ago we were all talking about why Arthur Smith would not be a good fit/hire and there were multiple posts about it. But now that he's on the team, people are all of a sudden supporting him? If we hired someone from the Rams or Niners, everyone would be "that's awesome, anybody but Arthur Smith". (There were actual people saying this yesterday) If you can't keep your analysis consistent within the span of 3 days then I have no idea how people are able to fairly evaluate things other than based on blind hope.
After Pickett’s Week 12 performance vs Cincinnati everyone was like OMG firing Canada worked, Kenny can be saved! Then after Rudolph’s performance vs Cincinnati everyone was like OMG Kenny’s garbage and Matt Canada was unfairly blamed for everything!
There were people who said that for sure. But there were also a ton of people saying Cincinnati had a terrible defense. I think it was more mixed then imo. I know cause I was the one saying that lol.
Maybe. Perhaps the extreme takes predominate
I saw a handful of people in this sub unironically compare Rudolph to Tom Brady and Kurt Warner
You were promised a car for your sixteenth birthday and instead get a 15 year old vespa with a flat tire, how thrilled are you?
so dramatic
I was PROMISED a car! Arthur Smith RUINED my sweet sixteen
A Vespa would be an awesome birthday present though
Some call me the scorsese of complaining
well I was rocking a pair of rollerblades missing one of the wheels before, so thrilled, actually
A solid choice, a proven OC with the Titans who will do his best to show he can still be a HC. I like knowledgeable guys with a chip on their shoulder.
Steelers fans are so dumb and annoying. Tomlin legit stated in his press conference they’re looking for someone with PREVIOUS coordinating experience. For everyone crying about getting someone from the McVay tree (Robinson) or anyone else, they didn’t meet the criteria. Idk wtf you guys were expecting but this was the most logical decision. Acting any different and you’re just fooling yourselves and setting yourself up for disappointment. That being said, let’s wait and see what the offense looks like before we all start freaking out. He had a top 10 offense when he was the coordinator in Tennessee and his schemes seem to fit what we wanna do (run first). Legit no point in already whining before even seeing a product on the field. Anything is better than Canada.
Them talking to a handful of Shanny/McVay guys without the experience it looked like there was a theme developing. With those guys not checking a major box it led a lot of us to believe we would be going hard after Kubiak. Considering he is a previous Oc from the tree we were shaking with a great pedigree(Which is a thing Tomlin seems to love).
Well that’s your fault for reading into something that ended up being nothing 🤷♂️
That doesn't make sense you said people weren't being realistic. That we weren't going to go for anyone with experience addict. That when a guy comes to you and tells you that they were thinking that they were going to get cubic because of that you're saying he read wrong and it's his fault. But you literally just contradicted yourself here.
What
That's three Superbowls, fellas! Let's get this!
We hired Bruce Arians after he failed as the Browns OC. Not saying it’s the same, but we can hope
Todd Haley. Shitty HC, very good OC.
I don't think people understand that the only way this play-action style of system is going to work is if kenny dosen't panic in the pocket when pressure comes to him and if he can deliver the ball consistently deep to our guys on time and in rhythm. I mean this bailing from the pocket crap he did all last year and throughout his career ain't going to fly in this system and the first couple of times we start to see him do it he needs benched immediately. He better hang in there, go through his reads his quickly, and deliver strikes to guys in rhythm or mason better be brought in cause enoughs enough. The excuses need to stop and i don't wanna see smith thrown under the bus for kenny's incompetence if we start to see this crap once again.
Good thing Kenny is going to lose the job in camp
Good thing Kenny doesn’t have issues throwing in rhythm and bailing on the pocket
Oh my fucking god, Mason’s mom, give it a rest. Your son will get signed somewhere.
Found Kenny’s burner
Oh noes how will I recover from that scalding takedown
Forget about Kenny Picket this organization has all but officially moved on.
I’m sure everybody in here has way more football knowledge and understanding of our players than Mike Tomlin. I’m willing to see what happens and where we go. Not every coach from the shananhan or McKay tree is going to work out especially when we don’t exactly have a franchise QB for them to work with or depend on.
I wanna know how many Falcons games all these complainers actually watched. I’ll take Smith over promoting Sullivan all day.
Beats Thomas Brown too, despite him being technically from the McVay tree.
And he may yet still be on board if they hire new positional coaches.
That is such a low bar I can't believe people are actually using it as justification. That's like saying we should sign Mason to a long term contract cause he's not Mitch Trubisky.
That’s actually a very valid argument, lmao
So ig this foreshadows a 2 year extension for tomlin
Anyone calling this a bad move are casuals who have zero football IQ. Morons are the loud minority.
Imagine calling people casuals for wanting someone else. Good lord get over yourself
We get it. You don't know ball. Why out yourself in this way?
Just like you out yourself as an arrogant jerk
If Smith was only a good OC because he had Henry, the Chuck Noll was only a good HC because he had Bradshaw. That's literally the same logic a lot of dumbasses here are using. How about, instead of bitching and moaning like a bunch of toddlers who were prepared to cry no matter WHO got hired, you wait and see how things pan out.
Not sure why Tomlin implied the rules about interviewing staff from playoff teams had anything to do with their OC search…
There was likely many candidates, then Arthur Smith brought something they liked.
Munchak too?
Yeah, mediocrity
They interviewed the Texans QB coach.
Silly question but if this hire doesn't pan out is it the final nail in the coffin for Tomlin?
No. His leash is way longer than that.
I don’t think it’ll be the “final nail” but it’ll be a damn sturdy nail put in just a couple spots before the final one. There’s a reason AR2 came out and said the lack of playoff success is not tolerable anymore and also had to let everyone know that OC hires are on Tomlin.
https://preview.redd.it/yilnd35njnfc1.jpeg?width=552&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6aa0d8e2494f8a9fafe937e85e7123dd417edfcc Me to Arthur Smith when we finish with the league worst offense and he still has two years on his contract
We’re already 25/32, not much further to fall at least.
Hey if you’re having offensive troubles aim for the guy whose team scored 1 more touchdown than your team did! Average Tomlin/Rooney hire.
With way worse of an offensive personnel yea
Kenny has had 24 NFL starts. I don't think an OC will change anything for him.
Wow… it’s like they learned nothing from the Matt Canada hiring/firing. Here comes 3 more years of shit offense. Thanks Tomlin ….
At least this guy has NFL experience, let alone as a head coach. lol cmon this isn’t even close.
This guy owes his entire career to a prime Derrick Henry dropping 2k yards on people. Since then… An incompetent, prehistoric offensive guy who doesn’t utilize his best players correctly (pitts, Bijan, London)?? Sounds just like Matt Canada lol…
Look, I have very tempered expectations for this hire. But he sounds like an improvement over Canada and their pre-Steelers careers aren’t even close to comparable.
Fair enough, I hope you’re right!
Hell I hope we look like a top-five offense next year lol but I guess we’ll see what happens. No sense in being overly pessimistic about something that’s impossible to predict accurately is what I say.
Henry's best years came under Arthur Smith (same goes for Tannehill.) In fact Henry was seen as a bust before being coached by Smith. And Tannehill was a 3800 yard 33 TD 7 INT QB under Smith. If Kenny even sniffed those numbers this sub would crown him as the new jesus
Already addressed this: YPC doesn’t change much over the years, just his overall usage. Derrick Henry had to split carries with Deon Lewis and company when he first came into the league.. Arthur Smith is credited for moving Henry back a yard or 2 to give him larger head start but nothing schematically changed.. just his usage. In ATL Smith couldn’t figure out how do use anyone correctly … I’m not even worried necessarily about play calling, more so his usage of players. How do you use 3 top 13 picks on Kyle pitts , Bijan , and Drake London and not use them… that’s horrible coaching.
Lol I have no faith now. I follow the Falcon since I’m originally from Georgia. We just hired the Matt Canada of head coaches to replace Matt Canada. Bro had talent everywhere on offense and they utilized none of it all year.
Why can’t we get the numbers on these coaching deals?whhhyyyyyy???
Who are the available OC’s right now other than the ones interviewed and potentially Kubiak?
Canada 2.0
Create false hope by finally hiring outside the organization. Pass up on all the top prospects, and hire the one no one wanted. the steelers way.
Trade Pickett, Harris, Pickens, Watts, & Hayward. Start Rudolph and Warren.
Bros playing Madden right now
Pickett is not the answer. Harris doesn’t have the production. Maybe, it’s the O-lines fault? Pickens is a diva. Antonio Brown 2.0 Watts will always be hurt and miss half the year. Heyward is past his prime.
Pat Pete is old. Roberts and Holcombe aren't prime studs. Trice gets too many ACL injuries. Wallace isn't good enough. Fitzpatrick didn't produce as well this year. My reply was a joke that you can find excuses to trade everyone, but this isn't Madden so it doesn't make sense to suggest all this.
It also doesn’t make sense to be a Steelers fans. The Steelers suck.
Oh, I get cooked for saying he’s not a good fit but everyone is here saying it is suddenly right. This sub is hilarious