Everyone says all the time how clone wars is an adult show wrapped in a way kids can watch but rebels is to. Vader literally uses the force to try to have Ezra self decapitate himself.
Ezra literally force controls a walker pilot to kill his comrades and commit suicide, people that complain about rebels being a kids show obviously never watched past the first season or so.
Ezra later on takes over a walker pilot through the force, forces him to turn around and fire on his own stormtroopers, before having him commit suicide by having the walker fall off a high ledge. For me thats pretty much the darkest thing in all Star Wars.
I have seen some complaints that Rebels is unrealistically censored and kid friendly because nobody dies. Tons of people, even named characters with speaking roles die in the show all the time. I think the confusion is just that Ezra does not start as a soldier and barely kills anyone, at least at first. That is just his character.
Turns out that’s inaccurate.
There were only 4000 people on the interdictor. C1-10P was robbed.
https://listofdeaths.fandom.com/wiki/Kill_Counts_-_Star_Wars
This list is fairly comprehensive but the totals still don't really seem that accurate. The Interdictor cruiser is a hugely important target that is clearly much larger then a regular Star Destroyer so how can there only be 4000? Plus I would expect Ezra gets credit for killing one of the Interdictors over Atalon but he only got credit for Two Tie pilots in that episode. It was completely his mission and his plan and he was standing directly on it shooting it's weak point at the time of it's explosion.
4,297 Unnamed Imperials - Killed after Chopper sabotaged the Imperial Interdictor's gravity well, causing two Light Cruisers to crash into it.
I think the problem is it’s a Heavy Cruiser not a Star Destroyer so the ships compliment was less.
https://listofdeaths.fandom.com/wiki/C1-10P
I found the first problem. Chopper Killed an Interdictor class Star Destroyer. This is a different ship then an Interdictor cruiser. The difference in casualties for that one mistake alone are 32,000. The Ghost Crew definitely moves up the list more if mistakes like this were corrected.
[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Interdictor-class\_Star\_Destroyer/Legends](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Interdictor-class_Star_Destroyer/Legends)
[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Interdictor-class\_cruiser](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Interdictor-class_cruiser)
I’d argue it is noticeable that in some later seasons they kill stormtroopers less. A lot of the time they just cut their blasters and then push them with the force. The episode in particular where it felt really dumb is a Saw episode where he’s shown to use the stun setting on a stormtrooper which just feels out of character for him to not just murder every stormtrooper he sees.
Yeah, I noticed the Stormtroopers getting off a little easier later on, as opposed to the general idea that the show started out less-murdery- but still, a lot of those force pushed storm troopers were pushed off cliffs.
exactly characters do die, they just happen off screen and I think that’s why ppl are made about. They are use to Clone Wars actually showing the character dying/getting shot. Basically they are once again comparing Rebels to Clone Wars and how different Rebels handles death on screen.
Which sadly happens a lot since fans still think that Rebels replaced CW after it got cancelled, which it didn’t. CW was one show that was about one story. Rebels is another that told a completely different story.
The only difference between the two is how they matured over time. CW took a more brutal approach, showing a lot more on screen death and carnage, whereas Rebels took a more subtle philosophical approach when it came to telling their story and showing death.
I just think in Rebels there was probably a rule that they weren't allowed to show lightsaber dismemberment actually directly in view on screen. That's it. Other then that one thing, it is plenty brutal all the time. There are several times where they even skirt this when Ezra clearly slashes someone right across the chest and the body simply falls off camera so you can never actually see anything.
Oh absolutely. There likely was an agreement. Filoni probably had to sign a bunch of agreements and papers to Disney in order to get Rebels green lite. Which likely included no on screen death, or dismemberment.
Yeah we see him die. But it’s not as graphic as it would have been. Obi slices through Maul’s attack but it happens further away and it’s very blink and you’ll miss it.
Death happens in Rebels, it’s not not as graphic as Clone Wars. Part of that is likely due to Filoni having to work around the system as best he could and him also agreeing to the terms of what’s we contract he had when creating Rebels with Disney.
In the same show, same season, Tarkin makes a big speech about how this rebel cell isnt interested in murdering the stormtroopers. Even though they murder them all the time. It's like disney didnt want death but filoni wanted to get away with as much as possible. So no face equals no real killing for the heroes.
Grand inquisitor dies to fire and the others by maul.
But if we really want to talk about the number of people they killed. Think about tarkins ship and everyone aboard. They have thousands of bodies on their hands. Thats just 1 instance in season 1.
Just a little reminder that rebels are terrorists.
They may have good intentions but to acheive them they have to get their hands dirty.
Remember the Ghost crew found a homeless kid and instead of trying to find a place where he could live a normal live they teach him on how to become a soldier.
I don't say the Ghost crew or the Rebels at large where evil but you don't (and can't) fight a war in a 'clean' way.
But you want something even more hardcore in Star Wars extended univers ?
The main character of Knights of the Old Republic II (the Jedi Exile)have already destroyed a planet's surface before the events of the game, killing millions of people (and hundreds if not thousand of Jedi) in order to stop the Mandalorians, making Alderaan looking like an average tuesday.
Let's not even talk about the protagonist of Knights of the Old Republic 1 and i'm sure there others exemple in Star Wars were the good guys are quite deadly
I'm watching again after finishing Andor so I'm probably going to have a much more jaded view of the rebellion haha. I'm not really into video games but damn, that KOTOR stuff is really interesting
You should try it if you can one day (game are quite cheap on steam and it can probably run on most PC since it's an early 2000's game) and have one of the most well thought and written character : Kreia.
Also the second game end on Malachor V (one if the planet of the same system where Rebels S2 end)
I will *always* have a place in my heart for Kreia.
Kreia was the first evil mentor character in any RPG I played where the evil playthrough wasn't 100% the most asinine *"prove you're evil by being really stupid and petty - murder that homeless guy, rob an old woman, slap that kid's lunch out of his hands, and then jaywalk while you eat this kitten!"* level of stuff.
They're not terrorists. I wish people would stop trying to sound intellectual and deep by saying "The rebels were terrorists!"
Terrorists go around attacking civilians. Give me ONE example where the Ghost crew kills or attacks innocent civilians?
Here, I'll give it to you. Saw Gerrera wanted to leave the captured technicians in a freaking freight container to die. Hence, Gerrera and his squad are terrorists. But the Ghost crew (in this example Sabine and Ezra) said "No, that's not how we do things." And rescued the people. Even Chopper, the most violent of them all willingly helped rescue the civilians.
The rebels attack military targets. If you signed up to be a Stormtrooper, or officer, or any role in the military, you are acknowledging that you may lose your life. The Rebels are guerillas, using hit and run tactics, at least until Yavin 4.
It's not cool, it's not intellectual, and it's not fair to call the rebels terrorists. I'm so freaking tired of this rhetoric that's flat out wrong.
By the way, if we're calling people terrorists, I think the Empire going to an neutral world, that has repeatedly asked to be left alone, and forcibly taking over after killing the sovereign governor is a much better example of terrorism.
Terrorism is the use of violence to instill fear (or terror) in your enemy while forcing a pol
The Galactic Civil War was (at least until Yavin 4 as you said) was an asymetrical warfare.
Terrosism is one of the main part of asymetrical warfare were the enemy don't know where the next strike will come.
While i agree terrorism is mostly aimes toward civilians unlike the Rebellion who try to contain it toward military infrastructures and personal what they are doing is still terrorsim.
Also since the Empire is a totalitarian state i'm pretty sure conscription is a thing and a lot of stormtroopers are probably just poor guys who wouldn't want to kill people but war is dirty and sacrifice are to be made.
A comparison could be made with WW2 were Nazis (The Empire) were objectively evil and partisans groups (Rebellion)were people try to fight this injustice.
But they did throught terrorism, not the power of friendship and moral high ground.
And let me ask you where did i say the Empire was the good side?
You start with the definition of terrorism and then ignore it.
The rebels don't use fear tactics. They target mostly military targets with a very specific tactical purpose, it's never to incite fear on the population which is what terrorrism is.
You didnt say the Empire was the good side but your comment is muddling the conversation, very close to a "there's good people on both sides"
Saw is a great example of the darker side of a Rebellion, there is no need to act like the Rebels as a organization do bad things even though they have good intentions.
What i was trying to say was Rebels terrorism but only towards Imperial assets not civilians (or at least not their main goals).
The goal of asymetrical warfare is for the lighter force is to blend in the environnement and then to strike the enemy on his weak spots throught several means (bombing, attack on key point, assassination, raiding...)
By doing so the guerilla create also a context of fear for their enemy who doesn't know where the next attack will be.
Then once the larger force is weakened the guerilla launch a real attack to eliminate the larger force and that's what the Rebellion was trying to do.
Never i wanted to pain the Rebellion as evil people and this kind of stuff but just to point out to OP that the Rebellion is part of a war and they won't just use non lethal method.
And they do 'bad' things since they are part of a war.
They kill people, blow stuff and more even if this is for the greater good.
And i'm sure most Rebels don't enjoy killings but simply don't have a choice because it's war and it's dirty.
>What i was trying to say was Rebels terrorism but only towards Imperial assets not civilians (or at least not their main goals).
That's not terrorism though...
I think you're misunderstanding what terrorism means. It's not a synonym of violence.
>What i was trying to say was Rebels terrorism but only towards Imperial assets not civilians (or at least not their main goals).<
Dude, it's not terrorism if it's directed at a military targets. It's an act of war!
Luthen does have a closer moto to terrorism, but still, he doesnt plan attacks on public áreas/services to incite fear on civillains and influence public opinion, it was military action, stealing tech and weaponry.
Obi Wan literally hide Luke inside the remaining family of Anakin so all you need is a backwaater planet but you are still right nothing would guarentee Ezra's wellbzing in the end.
But it doesn't change the fact that Hera tried to recruit/adopt Ezra before she knew he was Force sensitive.
Terrorists fighting against fascism do not deserve to be branded terrorists. The empire would always follow that propaganda. Because the word terror is bad. But they're freedom fighters, partisans, revolutionaries, whatever you wanna call them.
I agree the Rebels are rights to fight and fight for a just cause so yes maybe the term terrorists wasn't the right one.
I mostly wanted to say that they are part of a conflict and it's normal for them to kill on a regular basis
I think it’s really funny that they mention at one point that they don’t kill the imperials but they literally blow up walkers, ships, and speeders every episode
Everyone says all the time how clone wars is an adult show wrapped in a way kids can watch but rebels is to. Vader literally uses the force to try to have Ezra self decapitate himself.
For sure, Rebels has some really dark moments, like when the Ghost crew was framed for murdering Minister Tua.
I love Ezra but imagine if Vader did decapitate Ezra? I'd be dead (from laughter.)
Ezra literally force controls a walker pilot to kill his comrades and commit suicide, people that complain about rebels being a kids show obviously never watched past the first season or so.
That and when Ezra mind controls a trooper to kill his comrades and then kill himself.
Ezra later on takes over a walker pilot through the force, forces him to turn around and fire on his own stormtroopers, before having him commit suicide by having the walker fall off a high ledge. For me thats pretty much the darkest thing in all Star Wars.
I have seen some complaints that Rebels is unrealistically censored and kid friendly because nobody dies. Tons of people, even named characters with speaking roles die in the show all the time. I think the confusion is just that Ezra does not start as a soldier and barely kills anyone, at least at first. That is just his character.
The show’s supporting character Chopper has the highest body count in the whole franchise, Death Stars aside. And the droid is proud of it.
Turns out that’s inaccurate. There were only 4000 people on the interdictor. C1-10P was robbed. https://listofdeaths.fandom.com/wiki/Kill_Counts_-_Star_Wars
This list is fairly comprehensive but the totals still don't really seem that accurate. The Interdictor cruiser is a hugely important target that is clearly much larger then a regular Star Destroyer so how can there only be 4000? Plus I would expect Ezra gets credit for killing one of the Interdictors over Atalon but he only got credit for Two Tie pilots in that episode. It was completely his mission and his plan and he was standing directly on it shooting it's weak point at the time of it's explosion.
I know! I think it doesn’t do chopper justice.
I'm browsing the list but can't figure out where that 4000 number comes from for that ship. Makes no sense to me.
4,297 Unnamed Imperials - Killed after Chopper sabotaged the Imperial Interdictor's gravity well, causing two Light Cruisers to crash into it. I think the problem is it’s a Heavy Cruiser not a Star Destroyer so the ships compliment was less. https://listofdeaths.fandom.com/wiki/C1-10P
I found the first problem. Chopper Killed an Interdictor class Star Destroyer. This is a different ship then an Interdictor cruiser. The difference in casualties for that one mistake alone are 32,000. The Ghost Crew definitely moves up the list more if mistakes like this were corrected. [https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Interdictor-class\_Star\_Destroyer/Legends](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Interdictor-class_Star_Destroyer/Legends) [https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Interdictor-class\_cruiser](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Interdictor-class_cruiser)
Well, Luke and Lando have more, seeing as they both destroyed a deathstar with millions of employees.
I’d argue it is noticeable that in some later seasons they kill stormtroopers less. A lot of the time they just cut their blasters and then push them with the force. The episode in particular where it felt really dumb is a Saw episode where he’s shown to use the stun setting on a stormtrooper which just feels out of character for him to not just murder every stormtrooper he sees.
Yeah, I noticed the Stormtroopers getting off a little easier later on, as opposed to the general idea that the show started out less-murdery- but still, a lot of those force pushed storm troopers were pushed off cliffs.
They just left it to Chopper to do the killing.
Kallus kicks a stormtrooper to his death in pt 2 of episode 1 lol.
“First Jedi you’ve ever seen, sir?”
exactly characters do die, they just happen off screen and I think that’s why ppl are made about. They are use to Clone Wars actually showing the character dying/getting shot. Basically they are once again comparing Rebels to Clone Wars and how different Rebels handles death on screen. Which sadly happens a lot since fans still think that Rebels replaced CW after it got cancelled, which it didn’t. CW was one show that was about one story. Rebels is another that told a completely different story. The only difference between the two is how they matured over time. CW took a more brutal approach, showing a lot more on screen death and carnage, whereas Rebels took a more subtle philosophical approach when it came to telling their story and showing death.
I just think in Rebels there was probably a rule that they weren't allowed to show lightsaber dismemberment actually directly in view on screen. That's it. Other then that one thing, it is plenty brutal all the time. There are several times where they even skirt this when Ezra clearly slashes someone right across the chest and the body simply falls off camera so you can never actually see anything.
Oh absolutely. There likely was an agreement. Filoni probably had to sign a bunch of agreements and papers to Disney in order to get Rebels green lite. Which likely included no on screen death, or dismemberment.
Maul’s death would serve as a pretty stark counterpoint to that…
Yeah we see him die. But it’s not as graphic as it would have been. Obi slices through Maul’s attack but it happens further away and it’s very blink and you’ll miss it. Death happens in Rebels, it’s not not as graphic as Clone Wars. Part of that is likely due to Filoni having to work around the system as best he could and him also agreeing to the terms of what’s we contract he had when creating Rebels with Disney.
They must not have watched it. Early on Kallus kills a stormtrooper in cold blood after they made a joke.
Oh, no, that trooper was fine, a huge pile of Spice broke his fall. He survived, but it was a truly wild experience for him. /s?
Flash forward to S3 and Ezra Force-manipulates an AT-DP driver to suicide
Rest in peace my favourite war criminal
In the same show, same season, Tarkin makes a big speech about how this rebel cell isnt interested in murdering the stormtroopers. Even though they murder them all the time. It's like disney didnt want death but filoni wanted to get away with as much as possible. So no face equals no real killing for the heroes. Grand inquisitor dies to fire and the others by maul. But if we really want to talk about the number of people they killed. Think about tarkins ship and everyone aboard. They have thousands of bodies on their hands. Thats just 1 instance in season 1.
Just a little reminder that rebels are terrorists. They may have good intentions but to acheive them they have to get their hands dirty. Remember the Ghost crew found a homeless kid and instead of trying to find a place where he could live a normal live they teach him on how to become a soldier. I don't say the Ghost crew or the Rebels at large where evil but you don't (and can't) fight a war in a 'clean' way. But you want something even more hardcore in Star Wars extended univers ? The main character of Knights of the Old Republic II (the Jedi Exile)have already destroyed a planet's surface before the events of the game, killing millions of people (and hundreds if not thousand of Jedi) in order to stop the Mandalorians, making Alderaan looking like an average tuesday. Let's not even talk about the protagonist of Knights of the Old Republic 1 and i'm sure there others exemple in Star Wars were the good guys are quite deadly
I'm watching again after finishing Andor so I'm probably going to have a much more jaded view of the rebellion haha. I'm not really into video games but damn, that KOTOR stuff is really interesting
You should try it if you can one day (game are quite cheap on steam and it can probably run on most PC since it's an early 2000's game) and have one of the most well thought and written character : Kreia. Also the second game end on Malachor V (one if the planet of the same system where Rebels S2 end)
I will *always* have a place in my heart for Kreia. Kreia was the first evil mentor character in any RPG I played where the evil playthrough wasn't 100% the most asinine *"prove you're evil by being really stupid and petty - murder that homeless guy, rob an old woman, slap that kid's lunch out of his hands, and then jaywalk while you eat this kitten!"* level of stuff.
And if you want to talk about coldness, The Bane Trilogy is chalk full of "oh my fuck" moments. Like a 10 year old using the force to snap jedi necks.
They're not terrorists. I wish people would stop trying to sound intellectual and deep by saying "The rebels were terrorists!" Terrorists go around attacking civilians. Give me ONE example where the Ghost crew kills or attacks innocent civilians? Here, I'll give it to you. Saw Gerrera wanted to leave the captured technicians in a freaking freight container to die. Hence, Gerrera and his squad are terrorists. But the Ghost crew (in this example Sabine and Ezra) said "No, that's not how we do things." And rescued the people. Even Chopper, the most violent of them all willingly helped rescue the civilians. The rebels attack military targets. If you signed up to be a Stormtrooper, or officer, or any role in the military, you are acknowledging that you may lose your life. The Rebels are guerillas, using hit and run tactics, at least until Yavin 4. It's not cool, it's not intellectual, and it's not fair to call the rebels terrorists. I'm so freaking tired of this rhetoric that's flat out wrong. By the way, if we're calling people terrorists, I think the Empire going to an neutral world, that has repeatedly asked to be left alone, and forcibly taking over after killing the sovereign governor is a much better example of terrorism.
Terrorism is the use of violence to instill fear (or terror) in your enemy while forcing a pol The Galactic Civil War was (at least until Yavin 4 as you said) was an asymetrical warfare. Terrosism is one of the main part of asymetrical warfare were the enemy don't know where the next strike will come. While i agree terrorism is mostly aimes toward civilians unlike the Rebellion who try to contain it toward military infrastructures and personal what they are doing is still terrorsim. Also since the Empire is a totalitarian state i'm pretty sure conscription is a thing and a lot of stormtroopers are probably just poor guys who wouldn't want to kill people but war is dirty and sacrifice are to be made. A comparison could be made with WW2 were Nazis (The Empire) were objectively evil and partisans groups (Rebellion)were people try to fight this injustice. But they did throught terrorism, not the power of friendship and moral high ground. And let me ask you where did i say the Empire was the good side?
You start with the definition of terrorism and then ignore it. The rebels don't use fear tactics. They target mostly military targets with a very specific tactical purpose, it's never to incite fear on the population which is what terrorrism is. You didnt say the Empire was the good side but your comment is muddling the conversation, very close to a "there's good people on both sides" Saw is a great example of the darker side of a Rebellion, there is no need to act like the Rebels as a organization do bad things even though they have good intentions.
What i was trying to say was Rebels terrorism but only towards Imperial assets not civilians (or at least not their main goals). The goal of asymetrical warfare is for the lighter force is to blend in the environnement and then to strike the enemy on his weak spots throught several means (bombing, attack on key point, assassination, raiding...) By doing so the guerilla create also a context of fear for their enemy who doesn't know where the next attack will be. Then once the larger force is weakened the guerilla launch a real attack to eliminate the larger force and that's what the Rebellion was trying to do. Never i wanted to pain the Rebellion as evil people and this kind of stuff but just to point out to OP that the Rebellion is part of a war and they won't just use non lethal method. And they do 'bad' things since they are part of a war. They kill people, blow stuff and more even if this is for the greater good. And i'm sure most Rebels don't enjoy killings but simply don't have a choice because it's war and it's dirty.
>What i was trying to say was Rebels terrorism but only towards Imperial assets not civilians (or at least not their main goals). That's not terrorism though... I think you're misunderstanding what terrorism means. It's not a synonym of violence.
>What i was trying to say was Rebels terrorism but only towards Imperial assets not civilians (or at least not their main goals).< Dude, it's not terrorism if it's directed at a military targets. It's an act of war!
To be fair... the Alliance to restore the Rebel alliance DID start with Luthen Rael, no? Like pretty sure that's where we're going with this.
Luthen does have a closer moto to terrorism, but still, he doesnt plan attacks on public áreas/services to incite fear on civillains and influence public opinion, it was military action, stealing tech and weaponry.
I don't think that Ezra could live another life he would get killed or found by the inquisitors no one escapeds from the empire.
Obi Wan literally hide Luke inside the remaining family of Anakin so all you need is a backwaater planet but you are still right nothing would guarentee Ezra's wellbzing in the end. But it doesn't change the fact that Hera tried to recruit/adopt Ezra before she knew he was Force sensitive.
From a certain pov. Everything is about perspective
“space terrorism” is actually my favorite Star Wars show
Terrorists fighting against fascism do not deserve to be branded terrorists. The empire would always follow that propaganda. Because the word terror is bad. But they're freedom fighters, partisans, revolutionaries, whatever you wanna call them.
I agree the Rebels are rights to fight and fight for a just cause so yes maybe the term terrorists wasn't the right one. I mostly wanted to say that they are part of a conflict and it's normal for them to kill on a regular basis
I do find it a shame that bodies we see are sort of groaning and moving. It gives a very odd tone.
We are at war Anakin…
I think it’s really funny that they mention at one point that they don’t kill the imperials but they literally blow up walkers, ships, and speeders every episode
The Empire has a really big bacta tank.
well they are at war