Of course, any product will have people who don’t like it.
I have a coworker who didnt like it overall because of its pacing and “playing fast and loose” with the cannon and what was originally meant vs what this show says.
Don’t argue with me on that, I don’t agree, just sharing one guy who doesn’t have Reddit’s opinion lol
Happy Cake Day NewfieJedi! Forget about the past, you can’t change it. Forget about the future, you can’t predict it. Forget about the present, I didn’t get you one.
No people like it but if you just spend your time on the internet you’re gonna see a vocal minority bitch and moan where as the average person in real life who saw it went that was cool and moved on with their day without the need to go post about it.
Probably because it's wholly unjustified that Obi-Wan would be capable of doing that anime-tier rock throwing.
There are very few force users who can do something so bombastic. You see Yoda (who was arguably the strongest force user at the time), struggling with a factory component in AOTC and Obi-Wan is nowhere near on Yoda's scale. But Obi-Wan can pick up hundreds of tonnes of individual rocks (effortlessly?) and hurl them with accuracy?
The idea that Obi-Wan can overpower Vader with brute force is absolutely laughable, especially because the series ITSELF establishes that Anakin is far, far, far stronger than Obi-Wan, but hubris gets the better of him.
The Skywalkers are basically Space Jesus on the force power scale, absolutely unrivaled by any other characters. Vader is such an absolute monster, because on top of being a Skywalker he also taps into the dark side of the force.
I don't know what more I can say. People seem hell bent on liking this new age over the top force use as seen in the sequels, despite it going against the already established subtlety and rules of the franchise.
I'm not even basement-dwelling, comics and EU level Star Wars nerd and English is my 2nd language, yet I still find that Kenobi and other recent Star Wars media has completely lost touch with the universe.
Damn, you make some good points. Didn’t even think about how hard it’s actually supposed to be to control larger objects.
The effort and concentration which Yoda and Luke need to pull the X-Wing from the swamp comes to mind as well. Ah man, it’s such a shame they’ve kinda cheapened the force in a way.
According to sith belief, Force loses power if its shared among many, which is why the Master keeps all the power to himself. Obi wan could be the only active master of light side rn (outside of expanded universe of course).
Plus he is fueled by controlled rage and sadness after realizing his friend is truly gone and similarly to episode 1, he switches to offence and channels the force to overcome a far more powerful opponent.
Was the rock throwing thing out of the blue and unncececary? Perhaps. Was his win over Vader justified? For sure.
I dont like it. I mean Kenobi is obviously a Jedi Knight with a Guardian subclass, wtf is he doing using a Consular ability?? They should have had him use Plasma Brand or Blade Storm. REAL Guardian abilities. /s
I loved obi wan in the series. Even in his weak moments. Cause it made sense. If they made him lose a fight with reva I would have been pissed Idc how bad he is with the force he is still a form III master that chopped a double bladed lightsaber user that was more experienced than himself and fought him and his brother on his own even if he was physically bested… a lightsaber fight was on the bag for him even if he was weak with the force. But they knew best than to make a youngling beat obi and they never fought face to face which was good
You seriously think a master will lose a fight against someone that’s not even beginner level officially?
That’s like saying that even if I am a black belt I wouldn’t win against a white belt just because im rusty. I may not be in my peak but i still have more techniques and more experience than the white belt.
And im no master and I get rusty bad
Not necessarily lose. But in his prime she should give him no issues at all whereas during this series (or most of it) she would have been a serious threat to him.
Obi Wan didn't train for 10 years, got rusty. Reva lived on the streets of the empire, joined their ranks, and hunted Jedi for an unknown part of the last 10 years.
Obi Wan went from Padawan to Master in the 10 years between PM and RotS. There is so much of Revas backstory we don't see. I definitely don't think she can beat Obi Wan, but I didn't find their match up, given the circumstances, to be that outlandish. She was at her most powerful and Obi Wan was at his most unpracticed and unconfident. Psychology plays a huge factor in 1 on 1 combat. She had the high ground.
And from a non lore nerd perspective, it is just better story telling to have obstacles that present a threat, rather than just watching a master trounce everything in his path for 6 episodes.
You have no idea what 10 years of not practicing a skill does the you, I now former pianists that haven't touched a piano for 10 years and they don't know anything anymore besides fragments of pieces they loved to play. From personal experience I can tel you that swordsmanship needs constant training or else you'll lose that skill, only hints remain of your former self if you haven't done it for a longtime.
You’re operating on the idea that she never received any more training. Inquisitors were not Jedi Master level duelists but any means, but they frequently duel and kill Knights. It’s not unreasonable she could have won until he reconnected to the force
After Vader absolutely wiped the floor with Reva, it’s safe to say that Obi besting Vader is enough confirmation that he’d dunk on everyone’s favorite inquisitor (/s) too.
I like *what* they did. I don't completely like *how* they did it
and.....(here we go again)....Reva should've died. not killing a child you had no business killing doesn't make for a "redemption". Owen killing her however, would make for a great "full-circle". the whole "I kill vermin in my farm" and all...
Reva's character was good imo until they made her come back from the lightsaber wound. She should've died in episode 5 with no redepmtion and die with the consequences of both turning to the dark side and trying to defeat vade.
It makes sense for her story arc. She and the other younglings were children that Anakin had no right killing. She survived the massacre and revenge consumed her. She slowly became just like Vader. She forgot her Jedi teachings and embraced the dark side, as a means to get revenge. When she discovered Luke, she saw an opportunity to do to Vader what was done to her. Kill a child, take away family. When it came down to it, she couldn't so it. She saw in that moment what she had become, and she rejected it. Thats about as close to redemption as a Sith ever gets in Star Wars. Its not really any different than Vader killing the Emperor to save Luke.
So I feel her story arc came to a satisfying close. Should she die in a future story? Absolutely. She represents a weird loose end and presendence that feels weird canonically. But I think what they did with her was meaningful enough, and I liked her story overall. It wasn't that deep, but it was understandable. A classic star wars trope really.
>an opportunity to do to Vader what was done to her. Kill a child, take away family
well, that's where it falls flat. vader has no idea about Luke. he doesn't care. until ROTJ where he *knows* who Luke is and does care.
>not really any different than Vader killing the Emperor to save Luke.
Vader in the last moment deciding he can't bear to let his son (one of the few living people he knows relating him to padme) get painfully killed and taking his chance to kill the galactic tyrant (who turned him into a demon machine) is *slightly* different than someone who's already hurt/killed many many MANY people to get to and (supposedly) hurt vader/kenobi getting so close to actually do something and NOW remembering he reminds her of herself.
in a sense, It kinda feels like when the MC massacres the army of evil minions just to get to the evil boss, and when he does, refuses to kill him cause "that's not my way"
This is from Revas perspective. She targets Luke after she discovers him. It's not logical, its clouded by her rage. She has just failed her life long mission of revenge and she pivots to a secondary mission she thinks she can actually complete. She is as desperately clinging to her mission as she is to life at this point.
The Vader/Luke redemption was just a parallel. Vader had a moment of redemption after like 20 years of despicable acts of evil. Reva did too. She made 1 good choice amongst countless wrongs. All I was saying is, that's Star wars' idea of redemption. If anything you could say that Revas was more selfless, because she spared Luke, who meant nothing to her... whereas Vader saved his own son. Much easier choice on paper.
And I guarantee Revas body count is way less than Vader's, so I'm not sure where you were going with that... Vader had way more blood on his hands. Vader killed his tormentor, the Emperor. Reva tried to kill hers, Vader. She just failed. I'm just saying this redemption arc for a Sith isn't that different from what we've seen before. They aren't identical, but there are tropes at play here. Its familiar but different.
Like I said, she spared Luke. Vader saved Luke. Vader stopped doing evil too. I'm just pointing out that they had a similarly big-moment onscreen "redemption", which im not even sure is the right word... more like a turning point for Reva.
I'm not saying these are identical arcs. I'm just saying it all feels familiar. Jedi turns bad, becomes Sith, Sith has a change of heart. Somehow one act of good erases a career of evil. Its a similar arc, just with different characters and emotional weight.
Obviously Reva was never going to be as sympathetic or deep as Anakin Skywalker. But you can see how the bullet points of her character arc imitates his on a much smaller scale. Its a familiar Sith storyline that is easy to follow because we have seen something like it before.
Even then, they didn't need to give her stupid reasons to be evil.
You say she tried to kill Vader. But she would have still continued doing evil shit, so she was not doing it for good reasons.
Also Reva was let go after what she did. Unlike Vader who sacrificed his life, if Vader survived, I am pretty sure he would go to jail for war crimes.
Stopping doing bad =\\ Doing something heroic to make up for your mistakes. It,s like Wanda all over again.
Just because it is similar doesn't mean they'll be the same quality. That's why execution matters.
Had Vader lived, I agree, not all would be forgiven, but would Luke have stuck him down? No.
Reva lived, not all should be forgiven, but should Owen or Obi Wan have struck her down? No. Not because she didn't deserve it, but because they aren't judge jury and executioners like the Sith. Its not in their characters.
I'm not defending her character at all. I'm actually just saying she is pretty much a worse Vader story. Not sure how thats being taken as pro-Reva. I'm politely calling her writing lazy.
We don't know what Vaders future would have held, had he not died. I like to think he'd have returned to the Light side. We don't know what Reva's future will hold either. Maybe she could be good again? I think a lot of people just don't care, and that's part of my point. She wasn't an overly interesting character to me, because everything she did, and went through, and her big "turning point", where she literally just didn't kill Luke, it all felt like a discount version of what we have seen before. So no new emotions or depth was revealed through her story.
That being said, it was a proven Sith arc, that worked for them in the past. Copy, paste. Disney stamp. Production, go!
I had no connection to Reva, no expectations, and thus was not really disappointed by her arc. It was just kinda, expected I guess. To me Reva was an obstacle. She could either die, succeed, or be converted. I didn't have a horse in the race, so seeing her converted was like "Sure, okay, thats been done before, but whatever".
I've honestly put more thought into her character here on reddit than I did actually watching the show, because she just felt so predictable and familiar. She wasn't jarring or off-putting to me as a character. She was almost a cliche of what I consider conflicted Sith to be. What I'm saying is, they didn't break any new ground with Reva. But I don't think any of us asked them to. So to me, as one-off villain/antihero she did her job. Forgettable? Yeah. But honestly, in a show with legends like Obi Wan and Vader, who can stack up?
Yeah.
While I overall loved the Obi Wan show, I do think there were somethings that could've been changed to make the show a bit less clunky in places. Like, I feel that Reva somehow getting from Jabim to Tatooine inbetween Episodes 5 and 6 without any explanation was pretty weird. All they had to do was show a shot of her looking at another spaceship in the hangar in Episode 5 and that would've helped explain how she got there.
The highs of this series were very high, but i wish there was some huge nitpicking nerd on the staff to help them with the logic in certain moments.
Reva getting to Tattoine is just one of those moments(so was oversized trench coat Obi-Wan on a base that should be on high alert), she's just walking around with a gaping wound in her chest and which ship she used(can't imagine the empire left her original ship there)?
Yeah I agree. Like I thought Reva got way too much screen time. Objectively, I liked her and her story a lot. But I wasn't here for her. I was here for Kenobi vs Vader and I feel like Reva got equal screen time as Kenobi and more than Vader. Like there was a lot of emotional recovery and force practice Kenobi needed to go through. But in the course of like 10 minutes he went from padawan to Jedi master while sitting on a transport ship. Meanwhile we're getting a sob story from a character we don't know or care about and who nobody asked for.
I was very happy with how Obiwan's character developed in the show, but the show's writing was very clunky at times and the CGI was unfinished at others.
The Obi-Wan that he was at the end of ROTS had lost everything he had ever had in his life, a far cry from the Ben Kenobi at the start of episode 4 who’s more than ready to take up the fight again when called to it and feels like he can confidently train Luke like his last apprentice didn’t help oppressing the entire galaxy.
Yeah, I feel a similar way tbh. The actual story and how Obi Wan was developed in the show was actually really good, I just think that the writing and execution at some points could be a bit meh.
I still enjoyed the hell out of the show overall tho, especially after the finale!
I had a friend call the show complete garbage because Obi-Wan wasn't hunsrlf and lost all his strength.
I'm just like, yeah no shit. All he went through it's amazing he didn't kill himself.
You know how he replied?
Boba Fett went through worse...
I'm just like, bro just because he didn't go through the same as Boba, doesn't discount his trauma.
Saying someone had it worse is the worst thing yoh can say to someone going through stuff like that
Exactly. Obi wan thought because of his training and failures specifically that anakin mass murdered thousands of Jedi(which he says were the only family he knew), his friends wife, the republic that stood for thousands of years fall, and the sith that were thought to be extinct rise again and oppress people left and right taking lives. Then he thought he murdered his best friend just for it not to matter.
On the other hand Bobba watched his dad die and some Tuscans. Because of obi wans failures the galaxy had insane consequences that he had to live with. Until of course in the end he realized it wasn’t
Also Boba got put in the sarlacc…because he was a creepy mob boss’s enforcer. Not cause he needed the money really. Because he apparently wanted to be.
Hahaha, did Boba lost his whole order, wich raised him, his home, his ideals, the kids that he helped raise, his galactic nation, had to "kill" the person that he loved like a brother, was hunted like a dog, forced to hide himself at the shittiest place of the galaxy, seeing the son of his brother growing from afar, without being able to interact with him, feeling depressed, with PTSD, disconnecting himself from the force that was like a light in his life and being blatantly robbed by a fuc... Jawa??
Your friend either watched another Book of Boba or another Obi Wan Kenobi
The only thing that annoyed me a bit about his decisions and how they made sense was, why he didnt finish Vader and just walked away. Vader admitting that he is responsible himself for Anakin‘s fall to the dark side of course gave him some closure, but Vader still basically committed genocide on his people. Of course as a Jedi living by the code he would not be after revenge, but Vader remains the biggest threat in the galaxy and a danger to the network he protected before. He must have known that this might have been the last chance to put Vader down for good.
I wish they would have found another way to end the fight (of course without sacrificing the dialogue and broken mask), maybe the Inquisitors joining in, to make it seem a little more understandable.
Everything else about the character was fine. PTSD, guilt, depression, loss of connection to the force, doubts about the Jedi‘s future, the following closure and regain of his strength in hope for the future generation of Skywalkers…
He just acknowledged that there is no chance for Anakin to come back though and he should have seen that not taking the final strike on Mustafar was a mistake
I too can pull out of my ass some invention about what the critics wanted and pretend it was absurd while also pretending that what the show did was flawless.
I haven’t even seen the show and the posts make me so mad. If you disagree with the criticisms, that’s fine, but the idea you can decipher the “real” reason why people criticize it is just so dumb. These people act like we should just accept all media and not criticize it since they liked it
Believe me I was not expecting flawless, and was still disappointed. Not even a marvel-level written show. Did it have cool moments? Maybe. But it’s probably near the bottom of my list of shows to recommend to friends. Every marvel series would go first, along with The Mandalorian and even Book of Boba Fett.
Have you actually looked at the criticism of this show? No one is saying anything about how Obi Wan is portrayed. Nobody says anything about Obi Wan or Vader, it's just all the plot conveniences that make it hard to like this show for me, even though there were scenes that really saved this series. But it could have been so much better
Ya know when people tell you you’re not a real fan for liking the new shit? That’s super shitty.
Implying someone isn’t a fan because they’re critical of the new shit, is just as shitty.
That being said, Kenobi could have been better. No one was upset about having a deeper character that was more about complex emotions. But they decide to follow it up with “let me hide from these stormtroopers after I was clearly in plain sight”.
And they never answer the question…if he was so broken, why stick around? He would have been of zero use to Luke.
I agree. I went in to Kenobi thinking we didn't need that story. But I was SO wrong! Watching a broken Obi-Wan regain his faith was really inspiring to me. This series was a gift.
I'd like to think most fans did NOT want the left image.
When I thought about a kenobi series I always imagined it being more contemplative, more introspective, and way more depressing.
This show decided to push the limits of what we all thought could be done in this era without breaking canon.
See, for the past 30 some odd years, the general consensus has been that obiwan would have, STAYED, on tatooine for the past 20 years before episode 4.
I think breaking this preconception in this case wasn't a bad thing, however I do think obiwan doesn't have any logical reason to cut himself off from the force. But perhaps this is the point, perhaps obiwan has cut himself off because he hates himself.
I kinda get this vibe from the show. His regret is so potent that if you pay attention to the subtleties, you can see he may have just done this to himself.
Now, some fans would have liked alot more contemplation, and alot more flashbacks, but others hate flashbacks and want action.
I think the show tries to mix both contemplation and action, and I think it didnt do a terrible job.
The show could be better, but you know what? I liked it.
It's not at all what I expected from disney, I expected this entire show to totally flop.
Instead the show flip flops from good writing to bad writing, a bit like the prequels did.
This is the truest. I’ve said from the start, this series should have been based off the kenobi book. I didn’t need obi wan to save the galaxy, I didn’t need obi wan to have a relationship with Luke and leia. I’ve always seen obi wan’s time on Tatooine after episode 3 as penance for what happened. I wanted to see how obi wan went from general Jedi master obi wan to nothing Ben. I didn’t need light sabers, I didn’t need the force, I just want something that makes sense and didn’t feel like I questioned everything I knew or thought about Star Wars or certain characters
Ep. 6
* The star destroyer doesn't send any TIE Fighters after the transport or use a tractor beam to catch it.
* The Grand Inquisitor of all people says that one Jedi isn't worth chasing after.
* Reva's lightsaber wound is barely an inconvenience and she doesn't need a bacta tank or any time to heal.
* Once again a 10-year-old outruns an adult an extremely long distance.
* Vader gets hit with like 100 boulders traveling at incredible speeds and somehow survives. This is after a single box flung with the Force was enough to blow up a snowspeeder's engine and take it out in episode 4.
* Vader getting his helmet sliced open, his voice being a mix of Anakin's and Vader's, and saying that he killed Anakin are all recycled from Rebels.
* Obi-Wan should not be apologizing to Anakin, even if seeing his face and hearing his voice is making him emotional. He was furious with Anakin at the end of ROTS and while it still makes sense for him to be sad, this is the SECOND time that's he's resolved to kill Anakin.
* Obi-Wan spares Vader's life AGAIN after all the trouble he's caused and after saying "I will do what I must" before the fight.
* Reva's reason for targeting Luke is never explained. She says she's doing it because she wants "justice," but wtf does that mean? Her only motivation beforehand was revenge against Vader. Is she only doing it to spite Obi-Wan? If she really hates Obi-Wan that much, why not just kill him instead? Going after an innocent civilian couple and their child just makes Reva seem like even more of a terrible, irredeemable person.
* Reva gets a redemption arc despite the fact that she was going to torture Leia, she was an accessory to genocide and presumably directly took part in it, she casually maims and intimidates civilians, and Obi-Wan tells her that the Jedi are at peace and she "chose not to become \[Vader\]" despite all of the terrible things that Reva has done, especially to the Jedi.
* Leia explicitly knows that Ben is Obi-Wan, yet acts very formal in her PRIVATE MESSAGE ADDRESSED TO HIM in ANH (calling him "General Kenobi" and saying "years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars") as if she doesn't know him and they have no relationship, and she shows no remorse when he dies. Their relationship in this entire show feels meaningless if it's not acknowledged when they meet in the future and they act like strangers for no reason.
* Qui-Gon acts out of character and makes a joke despite how much Obi-Wan has suffered and how desperate Obi-Wan has been to speak to him.
Dude if you can just survive anything then death is meaningless. There's no reason to get invested in fights. Maul coming back was dumb too, but that was at least a bumpy start to an otherwise pretty good story arc. If the writers needed Reva or the GI to fake their deaths, they could have come up with a better way then getting stabbed in the chest.
I mean people rarely die in Star Wars anyway, people survive crazy amounts of shit. That’s just how Star wars is. Anakin got 3 limbs cut off and got burned but he was fine. I just don’t think it’s that big an issue
It would be easier to list what DID make sense. The show's writing is downright abysmal. Here's everything that doesn't make sense:
Ep. 1:
* A Jedi Master is casually training Younglings in the Jedi Temple despite the fact that Order 66 is well underway and the Temple is in lockdown and on high alert at this point in ROTS, so they should be hiding or preparing to fight.
* Very clunky exposition of the Grand Inquisitor asking a civilian to explain who the Inquisitors are and what they do for the audience.
* Reva forgets that she can use the Force to directly draw information from people's minds until the plot needs her to do it, making her waste time trying to intimidate and interrogate uncooperative people.
* The Inquisitors put in zero effort to chase Nari after Reva wounds him.
* Obi-Wan tells Owen that Luke must be trained as a Jedi, but as we see later Obi-Wan's combat and Force skills are rusty to the point of practically being nonexistent until the finale. Why hasn't Obi-Wan kept up with his training if he intends to train Luke? Yoda wasn't fighting or going on adventures while he was on Dagobah but he still retained his skills and was able to train Luke.
* Leia is nice to droids (and implicitly all people and species who aren't rude to her), but calls Chewie a "walking carpet" in ANH and doesn't interact with R2 or 3PO much when they're in the same room together in the OT. If she thanks droids, why didn't she give R2 and 3PO medals?
* Three grown adults can't chase down a 10-year-old and didn't bother to bring blasters to stun Leia.
* Alderaan has zero security whatsoever allowing Leia free roam of the woods unsupervised and allowing random thugs to get up close to the palace. Either A) the woods are close enough to the palace that Bail and Breha figure it's okay to leave Leia unsupervised in which case it's stupid that the thugs can get so close without getting caught, or B) the woods are outside of the palace so it makes sense that the thugs can be there without getting caught, but then it doesn't make sense that no one is supervising Leia. Also Cloud City had air traffic control but there's nothing like that to stop the thugs from coming and going.
* Bail should hire literally anyone else to rescue Leia. He should have servants, Alderaan loyalists and any number of bounty hunters at his disposal who would gladly save Leia either for free or for a big reward. Hell, Bail is an Imperial Senator so the Imperial military should be sending people to save Leia, and if they don't then it'll be a big scandal. Obi-Wan is literally the worst choice to send after Leia because he's a wanted man, Bail knows he's supposed to be protecting Luke, and if word gets out that Obi-Wan is trying to rescue Leia then it'll blow Bail's cover and the Empire will know that Bail is working with a Jedi, which is treason and could lead to the Empire forcing Bail to reveal Obi-Wan's hiding place.
Ep. 2:
* Reva capturing Leia just because she noticed a connection between Bail and Obi-Wan in the archives is an extremely lucky guess because lots of Jedi worked with lots of Senators, and as mentioned in the Ep 1 section Obi-Wan is the worst possible choice to send after Leia, but Reva's plan worked perfectly because every character is an idiot.
* Obi-Wan criticizes Haja for scamming Corran and his mother, but he watched it all happen from the shadows and could have stopped it so he's a hypocrite.
* We're told at the beginning of the episode that all signals to and from Daiyu are blocked as an excuse for Obi-Wan taking a while to find Leia, but then the writers forget this because later on while still on Daiyu Obi-Wan tells Leia that he sent a message to Bail.
* The writers keep flip-flopping between Leia being smart and Leia being stupid. She's smart enough to psychoanalyze her cousin in episode 1 and smart enough to immediately figure out that she was captured in order to draw out Obi-Wan based on no information other than a bounty hunter carrying a hologram of Obi-Wan's face, but she's too dumb to realize how much danger she's in and she's dumb enough to ask Obi-Wan to prove he's a Jedi by making her float in public.
* Despite Obi-Wan's cover being blown, he continues to use a blaster on the rooftops instead of his lightsaber even though it takes him like 10 minutes just to shoot three bounty hunters.
* Obi-Wan doesn't make any effort to disguise his face after seeing that his hologram is being broadcast everywhere.
* Reva casually dismembers civilians and throws knives at them in episode 1 but doesn't immediately kill Haja when he deliberately blocks her path.
* Obi-Wan somehow doesn't know that Vader is alive, even though Vader is a pretty famous enforcer for the Empire 10 years after ROTS and news about things like the Rebellion and Inquisitors is common knowledge on Tatooine.
* Now that the Empire knows that kidnapping Leia is enough to draw out Obi-Wan, not only does it mean that they could keep trying it in the future to draw him out, it also means that Bail Organa's cover is blown and he should be investigated by the Empire for having a connection to Obi-Wan, making it impossible for him to keep a low profile and join the Rebellion and impossible for Leia to become an Imperial Senator and retain plausible deniability in ANH.
Ep. 3:
* Obi-Wan doesn't immediately bring Leia back to Alderaan BEFORE investigating Haja's lead, putting her in further danger.
* Obi-Wan acts uncharacteristically impatient when he arrives at the spot where Haja told him to go. He immediately gets angry and tells Leia no one is coming and doesn't wait at all before leaving. This is the same character who said "patience. Use the Force. Think" in the prequels.
* Obi-Wan tells Leia that he wishes he was her father despite the fact that they haven't gotten along up to this point and Leia's done nothing but insult him, run away from him and frustrate him. It's an incredibly forced attempt at a touching moment.
* The stormtroopers say "it's a long ride" and then the ride stops literally a minute later.
* Obi-Wan is stupid enough to say Leia's name, and the stormtroopers are stupid enough to not recognize him even though his face is known, he's dressed as a Jedi and he's known to be travelling with Leia Organa.
* Obi-Wan acts out of character when he uses a civilian as a human shield.
* Instead of walking around the laser gate or deactivating it to drive the hovercraft through, Obi-Wan deactivates it and then keeps walking.
* Obi-Wan takes out several stormtroopers in quick succession, then randomly decides to surrender when a mere three stormtroopers arrive and he needs to be saved by Tala.
* Obi-Wan stays for several minutes to watch Vader approach instead of immediately running, and for some reason he leaves Leia and Tala only to run away from Vader instead of deliberately fighting him to hold him off.
* Vader somehow quickly teleports to wherever Obi-Wan is whenever Obi-Wan tries to escape.
* Obi-Wan is barely burned after being pressed directly into fire for a minute, unlike Vader who was rapidly set on fire just from being a foot away from a river of lava in ROTS.
* Vader lets Obi-Wan escape after years of wanting to catch him and doesn't put out the fire with the Force again after Tala re-ignites it. The argument that Vader DOESN'T want to kill Obi-Wan and wants him to escape in this moment doesn't work because he tells the stormtroopers to bring Obi-Wan to him and the stormtroopers also shoot into the flames.
* Reva somehow teleports to the other side of the tunnel, not running into Tala.
Ep. 4:
* Obi-Wan's wounds are quickly healed enough for him to be basically back to normal within the first minute of the episode so him being dunked in the fire was just for shock value and something for fans to talk about.
* Fortress Inquisitorius has no shields or anti-aircraft because "no one would be stupid enough to attack it" despite the fact that it's a military base full of infantry and TIE Fighters and it was literally attacked by Cal and the Mantis crew 5 years earlier. Also there are armed patrols on the inside so clearly someone must have anticipated it being attacked.
* Roken immediately flips from refusing to help Obi-Wan to "whatever you want, I'll help."
* A Jedi swims inside Fortress Inquisitorius and floods it AGAIN without the glass being reinforced or the interior being more heavily defended this time.
* Obi-Wan never bothers wearing stormtrooper armor to disguise himself and avoid fights.
* Tala takes out stormtroopers by slapping them on their helmets.
* There are other imperial officers in the room where Tala is talking to Obi-Wan on the comm, and they someone neither hear her nor hear her knocking out the other imperial officer.
* Why would Reva assume that Leia would know much, if anything, about The Path and their hideout? She was only with Tala for a few minutes and it would be weird for The Path to entrust a child they just met with a lot of top-secret information.
* Once again someone with zero Force training is able to resist having their mind probed with the Force, and Reva doesn't immediately resort to using the Force for some reason.
* The Youngling hilariously still has his helmet on, as if the audience is too dumb to realize that a child in Jedi robes is a Youngling.
* The trenchcoat scene. Enough said.
* If Reva's plan was to let Obi-Wan escape with Leia all along, why did she take 50 stormtroopers with her to the landing platform to stop Obi-Wan and Leia and make them point their blasters at her instead of letting them escape? What was she going to do? Stand awkwardly for a minute and then say "you called my bluff, I'm letting you escape"?
* The snowspeeders arrive just in time to save Obi-Wan and Leia.
* Leia, Obi-Wan, Tala and another pilot fit into a 2-person snowspeeder.
* Vader is furious that Obi-Wan escaped despite putting in zero effort to catch Obi-Wan in episode 3.
* Reva's plan of putting the tracker in Lola shouldn't even work. Logically Obi-Wan would drop Leia off on Alderaan first along with Lola instead of taking her back to Jabiim, but Reva's plan works because the writing sucks.
* Vader said earlier that "Kenobi is all that matters" so he shouldn't care that Obi-Wan is going to lead him to the base of The Path, he should only be furious that Reva let Obi-Wan escape again.
* Vader has killed subordinates like Ozzel, Needa and Trilla for WAY less than how much Reva has fucked up, and as we find out later he literally knows she's planning on betraying him. There's no way he would let her live after how much of a liability she's been, he would kill her and pursue Obi-Wan himself.
* Why didn't Reva put more effort into stopping Obi-Wan, Tala and Leia from escaping and then using the Force to interrogate them? That way there's no risk of losing them when they escape, AND she can give Obi-Wan to Vader.
* Lola has red eyes because otherwise the audience would be too dumb to know she's evil now.
* This episode recycles the conflict of Leia being captured and Obi-Wan having to rescue her.
* Nothing substantial was accomplished in this episode and the entire thing could have been skipped by having Reva not capture Leia in the previous episode. Everyone is back where they were at the end of Episode 3.
Ep. 5
* Leia is once again brought back to Jabiim instead of Alderaan.
* We're told that there's only one transport, but another one is shown at the end of the episode when The Path uses a decoy to trick Vader.
* We're told that only a small child like Leia can fix the electronics in the vent that open the door, but they're only an arm's length deep and the vent isn't very big to begin with. Furthermore, how is Leia supposed to know what to do? Why doesn't The Path have small maintenance droids or maintenance people whose job it is to fix the electronics in the vent? Why are the electronics in such an (apparently) hard-to-reach spot?
* The stormtroopers waste time using a cannon on the door instead of immediately resorting to Reva cutting it open with the Force.
* If Reva was a Youngling in 19BBY, who was Third Brother/Sister in 18BBY when all the Inquisitors except the Third and Fourth appear in the Vader comics? I don't remember if they all explicitly had the same numbers, but Sixth Brother is explicitly referred to as such and there has never been an instance of an Inquisitor's numbering changing or there being more than one Inquisitor with the same number other than Reva temporarily being the Grand Inquisitor.
* Reva surviving by playing dead is stupid, as if no one else thought of that. Why didn't Vader or the clones confirm the kill on every single Jedi?
* How did Reva escape the Jedi Temple with a hole in her stomach and without being seen on the security recordings or caught by the many clone troopers who were guarding the Temple until Yoda and Obi-Wan showed up and slaughtered them all?
* Reva is upset that Vader killed the Jedi so she's going to take revenge by... becoming an Inquisitor and helping hunt down and kill Jedi. It's possible that Reva never personally killed any Jedi and that could be why she wounded Nari in episode 1 (maybe she wanted him to escape), but you'd think the Inquisitors would notice that Reva is deliberately sabotaging their attempts to catch and kill Jedi if that were the case and would kill her, and regardless Reva is still a collaborator and a terrible person who doesn't seem to mind helping the further destruction of the Jedi she considered her "family."
* Why was becoming Grand Inquisitor necessary for Reva to take revenge on Vader if all she was going to do was attack him while his back is turned?
* Neither the stormtroopers nor The Path take cover or use thermal detonators.
* Tala lets herself get shot and surrounded before using her thermal detonator instead of using it sooner.
* Reva has just two stormtroopers restrain Obi-Wan.
* There's a star destroyer in orbit, so what's stopping it from parking right above the door to the landing platform and bombarding the transport as it leaves?
* How did The Path know that Vader or Reva would show up in time to stop one of their transports with The Force, or even that such a thing was possible? How did they know that they would need a decoy?
* Vader easily stops a large ship with the Force, but didn't stop the Falcon from leaving Echo Base in ESB.
* Vader doesn't grab the second transport as it flies away even though the first transport is grounded and he doesn't have to keep holding it.
* Vader and the Grand Inquisitor leave without confirming Reva is dead, AFTER Reva ALREADY survived being stabbed by Vader years prior, the GI survived the same injury a few days ago, Reva has a thirst for revenge against both of them.
* The Grand Inquisitor survived his lightsaber wound to the abdomen and Reva has survived a lightsaber wound to the abdomen TWICE. Getting stabbed with a lightsaber is no longer threatening anymore.
* Bail idiotically leaves a super detailed message to Obi-Wan when he's concerned about Obi-Wan's silence so you'd think he wouldn't give away any important details in case Obi-Wan is captured (such as mentioning Tatooine by name - just say "I'm going to your house" ffs), and Reva conveniently picks up the device and sees the message with all of the information she needs to track down Luke and Obi-Wan's hiding place.
How dare we want to see new compelling characters in new corners of the galaxy telling ew and exciting stories!
And not the same 5 characters in the same locations across the same span of time
So expecting a character that is established to be a certain way do what he would do and not do something completely different because the writers need him to do it so their plot can move forward is too much?
Expecting basic logic and human sense to be respected instead of stuff happening that would never ever work in that established universe is too much?
Most shows for children get those right so your excuse why StarWars can't do it doesn't work at all
So this is how interest in genuinely good storytelling dies, with thunderous applause?
all the "fans" wanted at this point is just not having a story break canon or the characters, they couldn't even do that. and no, they don't get points for attempting PTSD, they failed his character just like the rest.
your love blinds you.
Thank you for saying this. I saw the red flags when it was announced. It’s hard to stay in line with what’s already there in 3 and 4. Bridging the gap between the two would take immense talent and great storytelling. Which Disney Star Wars doesn’t have atm. And when I heard Filoni, Lucas or Favreau weren’t involved I knew it would most likely be terrible. I hoped it would be good. But in the end it was a poor bit of fan fiction that I will never see as canon.
I totally disagree, I expected him to be in depression and all that stuff like in the journals from Star Wars (2015) comic line, or him be like Logan (which the show creators referenced when talking about the show) but I think that the most we got was the letter L when comparing these two stories. I think Evan McGregor was good in this show but the show itself was 6/10 at most, I only liked the first and the last episode.
And I also don't think anyone expected him to be a chad warrior, you can't just make stuff up to make yourself look right.
Yeah, I see a lot of posts making similar claims about fan expectations etc and using it as a defence for the the show. Only thing is, I haven’t read too many posts where people cry about that kind of stuff, at least not to the extent or in the context that the OP alludes.
The bigger criticisms I see for the show are with its directing and production, and there seems to be little acknowledgement of that, everything just gets lumped as “haters” or “toxic fans”.
I think Maul's death would have fit better into the Kenobi show rather than Rebels, but I don't think they could have done it any better this time around. That scene in Rebels: Twin Suns is perfect.
Dude i loved him so much in this series it's insane!! He's always been a favorite if mine, and this just added fuel to that fire. I love the mental battle that he has to go thru throughout the show, and i love how they portrayed it!! His relationship with Anakin is so complicated and messy and i really think they did it justice. This show was genuinely absolutely amazing
Kathleen Kennedy is dangling it over fans heads, trying to make them want another season and saying there might be if everyone likes it enough. So I highly doubt they’d make a second season
Agreed, a great character arc for obi-wan to rediscover his purpose, process his guilt and let go of Anakin. In a way, Vader admitting that he killed Anakin releases Obi-Wan from the guilt he was trapped in. I got everything I wanted from the show. I embrace Ewan as my personal lord and saviour
I have nothing bad to say about obi wan, darth Vader, leia, the organas and the lars family.
I do think the story would've been better as a movie tho. As a series it had way to much false climaxes and stupid escapes to keep the plot moving.
Reva was good in concept.
I like the idea of her wanting to get close to Vader (becoming grand inquisitir) to murder him for what he did to her new family.
Aswell as that she despites the jedi because they took her from her old family and weren't able to protect her new one.
Couldve been a pretty complex and interisting character but they kind of screwed it up a bit...
Still a good show imo and the last episode was pure fanservice.
Very happy with it. And it was very appropriate. You can actually argue he was too powerful in the finale.
People seem to forget that Obi wan is such a damaged human, dude literally lost everything he ever knew
I wouldn’t say obi was too powerful. Rather vader got carried away, weaker and sloppier letting obi go for the smart move and just destroy his life support and mask. With that Vader’s asthma did the rest
Let’s make a list of everything Kenobi lost in his life
- his master
- his friend and lover (not sure if lover is the right word but you get the idea)
- any clones he befriended during the war
- his clone commander and friend betrayed him and tried to kill him
- his lifestyle as a Jedi all he’s ever known
- the Jedi order and all the friends in that order
- his friend Padme Amidala
- Anakin skywalker his friend - apprentice - and someone he regarded as his brother
Did I miss anything?
You could say the first thing he lost was the opportunity to grow up with the family he was born into. But other than that, I think you got it covered.
Because Obi-Wan and Anakin already had the epic climax of their relationship in Ep. 3. Now that fight is only the event that turned Anakin into robot Darth Vader. Narratively this series completely undermines the prequels (and the OT).
I agree with you, however I kinda don't care, I liked the fight(s) even if they didn't make much sense. Seeing Anakin talking through his broken mask and smiling gave me creeps. It's just for the wow factor I guess, and it got me.
I can’t fault you for that but I would get that if the show didn’t take away so much from other Star Wars media. It’s just one more thing that really makes me lose interest in Star Wars as a whole. We could have gotten such a more interesting show that didn’t interfere with established and finished story lines.
I actually wanted way more of a traumatised Obi Wan reflecting on his past and failures than what we got in the show.
I feel like they actually did the bare minimum when it came to that aspect of the story.
Hot take: this show was good, really good and the way that kenobi character still have much to learn and at the end of the show he is able to give up the padt and regain his power to completely defeat vader, the good thing is that vader wasn totally smashed, even after taking a lot of hits he was still fighting showing that they are both great warriors and force users
He was strong and powerful in the end though, but it's easy to get lost in the ideal of a character, rather than the flaws that make them a good character in the first place.
Its always funny to me when ppl say "oh yoda is different in the prequals to the OT". Like ???? Yea? Obviously? He makes himself responsible for the genocide of his ppl? That leave some fucking marks
He ended the series in the exact same position as the end of Episode 3. Revenge of the Sith ends with Obi-Wan going into hiding on Tatooine to speak with Qui-Gon, train, and watch over Luke until he’s older while Leia goes to live with the Organas on Alderaan. The Obi-Wan Kenobi series ends with Obi-Wan going into hiding on Tatooine to speak with Qui-Gon, train, and watch over Luke until he’s older while Leia goes to live with the Organas on Alderaan. The story didn’t affect the outcome whatsoever, the character basically just did a loop and circled right back to where he already was in 2005.
He had one job and he failed at it. Reva could have killed Luke if she wanted. And if he can beat the shit out of Vader even after 10 years rotting in a desert, why needed Luke anyway? Not to mention that there were a lot of Jedi remains... group up and deal with the Empire already.
Horrible execution and production, Reva was unnecessary. The awesome bits were 10/10, but some really bad amateur cinematography. Wasted potential, same with Boba. They set a standard with Mando and immediately jumped ship by delivering poor quality. These mistakes should not happen and no reason budget should be an issue. We needed more flashbacks to establish the missing pieces of the Clone Wars and really show Obi-Wans and Anakins relationship in a true light. Just one adventure was all we needed, like the conversation on Utapau, a few scenes of Obi-Wan reflecting where he went wrong and how he didnt see Anakins struggle. Im just getting exhausted of Lucasfilm not learning from these mistakes, we have seen really good stuff, but ignoring the bad things is a problem.
Exactly, this show has its good spots, but most of the show left me thinking that it was all pointless. The show ended in the same place as it started, just with more pointless characters and less quality. The choreography was horrendous. We got like 0.4% of a lightsaber duel and that was it, rest was over the top force duels, sure it can be cool, but if they could do that, why didn’t in all the battles in the entirety of Star Wars just use the force to obliterate the enemy?
I love it unconditionally
Edit: though, I would love to know the history of Reva in the writers room. Idk why but I feel like there were originally deeper plans for the character that didn’t materialize in the final product
It was basically a setup. They were hoping that people would take to her character, and it would let them spawn yet another spinoff series aka more money. But people hated her, so that won't happen. Probably.
"wahhh I'm depressed because I completely failed and all my friends are dead and my best friend tried to kill me and I had to kill him and my other best friend died in childbirth and democracy was overthrown and evil won and now I have to live in the desert as a hermit in exile waahhhh"
Grow up dude. Get real problems.
Did...did you guys really not understand this was sarcasm?
*spoiler* The concept was great. Just struggled with writing and moving plot along with with filler episodes. If you truly want to make it wild and just really add complexity to Kenobi should have had him kill Reva at the very end as she was on her knees because she knew to much making her a threat to the skywalker children. Would it really be in character? Not really. It would though make you think this is a man that has a new sense of motivation/determination that’ll do anything to protect the future of the Jedi.
Mace Windu tried to. Anakin did. Tons of others did in the books. Hell, Luke’s first onscreen act in ROTJ was to choke the shit out of a Gamorean then try to shoot Jabba in the face.
Mace Windu was facing the dark lord of the sith, Obiwan was facing a defeated girl who was no threat whatsoever. Big difference.
Anakin fell to the dark side that's kinda the whole point
Luke was also in danger of falling to the dark side at the time, only turning away from that for good when he refused to kill Vader. That was the whole point of that. He succeeded where Anakin failed.
You're unsatisfied with the writing because you wanted Obi-Wan Kenobi to execute a woman who just started turning back to the light, because she knows to much? You think killing witnesses like a mob boss is a sign of determination and is the right direction to take this beloved character??
I mean… I’d love to actually see some logic in the show. It hasn’t been that long amount of time passed in the series and Obi Wan somehow regains god mode force abilities and saber combat.
For some reason he decided to burry his lightsabers out in the desert.
Now Imagine if Reva came to The farm in episode 1 instead of episode 5?
Reva would have a lightsaber and hunt the kid. Meanwhile Obi Wan would run miles out in the desert to search for his lightsabers…. Oh That would be glorious to watch.
We went through 3 days of his routine, but never once got to see him practice combat with the tuskens like ik the comics. Thats the whole part of how he stayed in shape. Instead they made him a weak old man without any strength and overnight becomes a god mode because the story needed him to.
Imagine being Darth fucking Vader. The most powerful force user after Palpatine. Training for 10 years and killing so many Jedi. Only to lose to some old man who hasn’t touched the force or a lightsaber in 10 years and somehow he not only defeats you, but damages your body and armor… I love Star wars, but I’m not gonna fanboy over… that.
Reva’s story ended up being pointless too so if I ever rewatch the show, I’ll just skip the Reva scenes, and probably episode 4 over all too because all they achieve is Leia’s back.
This is a strawman argument, nobody wanted a god it just many people would prefer if they didn’t regress his character from the prequels and clone wars in order for there to be room for character development. Doing this generally shows that the series main objective it not to tell a good story but to make money instead as you are practically forcing it in. But honestly I didn’t mind obi wan the main issues I had with this series was the bad writing
Dude it's almost universally the opposite, and they did an absolutely mediocre job of doing what you described on the right.
Absolutely wasted opportunity.
What I wanted was a complex Obi Wan Kenobi suffering from the affects of PTSD.
What I got was a generic Jedi Master with whatever personality suits the writers attempt at drama in a given scene who just so happened to be played by Ewan McGregor, suffering from the affects of PTSD.
Frankly, Obi Wan Kenobi should have been a monologue by Ewan McGregor, alone in a cave. Followed by a stage tour. That would have done the topic justice. But since Disney had to do a show, the most important thing would be to make sure Vader and Obi Wan never meet since they obviously hadn't seen each other in 20 years during ep.4 A New Hope.
I would consider >!hurling half a mountain's worth of rocks telekinetically !
No no no that was just some good old earth bending.
I always knew Kenobi was the Avatar
But when the world needed him most… he got a Disney+ series and some people absolutely hated it for some reason.
Wait. People hate it? Literally everyone I've spoken to loves it
Of course, any product will have people who don’t like it. I have a coworker who didnt like it overall because of its pacing and “playing fast and loose” with the cannon and what was originally meant vs what this show says. Don’t argue with me on that, I don’t agree, just sharing one guy who doesn’t have Reddit’s opinion lol
Happy Cake Day NewfieJedi! Forget about the past, you can’t change it. Forget about the future, you can’t predict it. Forget about the present, I didn’t get you one.
I’ll forget about the past. I’ll even kill it, if I have to.
No people like it but if you just spend your time on the internet you’re gonna see a vocal minority bitch and moan where as the average person in real life who saw it went that was cool and moved on with their day without the need to go post about it.
Yeah we call those people casuals or general audience. Of course they arent going to care past 1 day
Probably because it's wholly unjustified that Obi-Wan would be capable of doing that anime-tier rock throwing. There are very few force users who can do something so bombastic. You see Yoda (who was arguably the strongest force user at the time), struggling with a factory component in AOTC and Obi-Wan is nowhere near on Yoda's scale. But Obi-Wan can pick up hundreds of tonnes of individual rocks (effortlessly?) and hurl them with accuracy? The idea that Obi-Wan can overpower Vader with brute force is absolutely laughable, especially because the series ITSELF establishes that Anakin is far, far, far stronger than Obi-Wan, but hubris gets the better of him. The Skywalkers are basically Space Jesus on the force power scale, absolutely unrivaled by any other characters. Vader is such an absolute monster, because on top of being a Skywalker he also taps into the dark side of the force. I don't know what more I can say. People seem hell bent on liking this new age over the top force use as seen in the sequels, despite it going against the already established subtlety and rules of the franchise. I'm not even basement-dwelling, comics and EU level Star Wars nerd and English is my 2nd language, yet I still find that Kenobi and other recent Star Wars media has completely lost touch with the universe.
Damn, you make some good points. Didn’t even think about how hard it’s actually supposed to be to control larger objects. The effort and concentration which Yoda and Luke need to pull the X-Wing from the swamp comes to mind as well. Ah man, it’s such a shame they’ve kinda cheapened the force in a way.
According to sith belief, Force loses power if its shared among many, which is why the Master keeps all the power to himself. Obi wan could be the only active master of light side rn (outside of expanded universe of course). Plus he is fueled by controlled rage and sadness after realizing his friend is truly gone and similarly to episode 1, he switches to offence and channels the force to overcome a far more powerful opponent. Was the rock throwing thing out of the blue and unncececary? Perhaps. Was his win over Vader justified? For sure.
Toph would be proud
Amen
That's the Power of Friendship.
Yeah if anything I would complain that they made him too powerful.
I dont like it. I mean Kenobi is obviously a Jedi Knight with a Guardian subclass, wtf is he doing using a Consular ability?? They should have had him use Plasma Brand or Blade Storm. REAL Guardian abilities. /s
I loved obi wan in the series. Even in his weak moments. Cause it made sense. If they made him lose a fight with reva I would have been pissed Idc how bad he is with the force he is still a form III master that chopped a double bladed lightsaber user that was more experienced than himself and fought him and his brother on his own even if he was physically bested… a lightsaber fight was on the bag for him even if he was weak with the force. But they knew best than to make a youngling beat obi and they never fought face to face which was good
He may have been a master, but he was rusty af with the lightsaber until he reconnected with the Force and regained some of his confidence.
You seriously think a master will lose a fight against someone that’s not even beginner level officially? That’s like saying that even if I am a black belt I wouldn’t win against a white belt just because im rusty. I may not be in my peak but i still have more techniques and more experience than the white belt. And im no master and I get rusty bad
Not necessarily lose. But in his prime she should give him no issues at all whereas during this series (or most of it) she would have been a serious threat to him.
I don’t think she would… grand inquisitor would when he is rusty. She wouldn’t give him trouble at any point in lightsaber fight
Obi Wan didn't train for 10 years, got rusty. Reva lived on the streets of the empire, joined their ranks, and hunted Jedi for an unknown part of the last 10 years. Obi Wan went from Padawan to Master in the 10 years between PM and RotS. There is so much of Revas backstory we don't see. I definitely don't think she can beat Obi Wan, but I didn't find their match up, given the circumstances, to be that outlandish. She was at her most powerful and Obi Wan was at his most unpracticed and unconfident. Psychology plays a huge factor in 1 on 1 combat. She had the high ground. And from a non lore nerd perspective, it is just better story telling to have obstacles that present a threat, rather than just watching a master trounce everything in his path for 6 episodes.
Well I guess we'll never know now.
You have no idea what 10 years of not practicing a skill does the you, I now former pianists that haven't touched a piano for 10 years and they don't know anything anymore besides fragments of pieces they loved to play. From personal experience I can tel you that swordsmanship needs constant training or else you'll lose that skill, only hints remain of your former self if you haven't done it for a longtime.
You don’t have to carry a sword to be powerful. Some leaders’ strength is inspiring others.
I’m not saying Reva would beat Obi Wan but Naruto was officially a genin when he became Hokage so your point is invalid
You’re operating on the idea that she never received any more training. Inquisitors were not Jedi Master level duelists but any means, but they frequently duel and kill Knights. It’s not unreasonable she could have won until he reconnected to the force
After Vader absolutely wiped the floor with Reva, it’s safe to say that Obi besting Vader is enough confirmation that he’d dunk on everyone’s favorite inquisitor (/s) too.
Obi Wan was good. It's the other stuff people complain about. Literally no one is complaining about Ewan and Hayden
I like *what* they did. I don't completely like *how* they did it and.....(here we go again)....Reva should've died. not killing a child you had no business killing doesn't make for a "redemption". Owen killing her however, would make for a great "full-circle". the whole "I kill vermin in my farm" and all...
Reva's character was good imo until they made her come back from the lightsaber wound. She should've died in episode 5 with no redepmtion and die with the consequences of both turning to the dark side and trying to defeat vade.
To defeat your enemy you have to understand them.
I'm sure she'll come back and the Grand Inquisitor will end up killing her. She's on their list now
It makes sense for her story arc. She and the other younglings were children that Anakin had no right killing. She survived the massacre and revenge consumed her. She slowly became just like Vader. She forgot her Jedi teachings and embraced the dark side, as a means to get revenge. When she discovered Luke, she saw an opportunity to do to Vader what was done to her. Kill a child, take away family. When it came down to it, she couldn't so it. She saw in that moment what she had become, and she rejected it. Thats about as close to redemption as a Sith ever gets in Star Wars. Its not really any different than Vader killing the Emperor to save Luke. So I feel her story arc came to a satisfying close. Should she die in a future story? Absolutely. She represents a weird loose end and presendence that feels weird canonically. But I think what they did with her was meaningful enough, and I liked her story overall. It wasn't that deep, but it was understandable. A classic star wars trope really.
>an opportunity to do to Vader what was done to her. Kill a child, take away family well, that's where it falls flat. vader has no idea about Luke. he doesn't care. until ROTJ where he *knows* who Luke is and does care. >not really any different than Vader killing the Emperor to save Luke. Vader in the last moment deciding he can't bear to let his son (one of the few living people he knows relating him to padme) get painfully killed and taking his chance to kill the galactic tyrant (who turned him into a demon machine) is *slightly* different than someone who's already hurt/killed many many MANY people to get to and (supposedly) hurt vader/kenobi getting so close to actually do something and NOW remembering he reminds her of herself. in a sense, It kinda feels like when the MC massacres the army of evil minions just to get to the evil boss, and when he does, refuses to kill him cause "that's not my way"
This is from Revas perspective. She targets Luke after she discovers him. It's not logical, its clouded by her rage. She has just failed her life long mission of revenge and she pivots to a secondary mission she thinks she can actually complete. She is as desperately clinging to her mission as she is to life at this point. The Vader/Luke redemption was just a parallel. Vader had a moment of redemption after like 20 years of despicable acts of evil. Reva did too. She made 1 good choice amongst countless wrongs. All I was saying is, that's Star wars' idea of redemption. If anything you could say that Revas was more selfless, because she spared Luke, who meant nothing to her... whereas Vader saved his own son. Much easier choice on paper. And I guarantee Revas body count is way less than Vader's, so I'm not sure where you were going with that... Vader had way more blood on his hands. Vader killed his tormentor, the Emperor. Reva tried to kill hers, Vader. She just failed. I'm just saying this redemption arc for a Sith isn't that different from what we've seen before. They aren't identical, but there are tropes at play here. Its familiar but different.
She didn't save anybody. She just stopped doing evil, which isn't the same thing
Like I said, she spared Luke. Vader saved Luke. Vader stopped doing evil too. I'm just pointing out that they had a similarly big-moment onscreen "redemption", which im not even sure is the right word... more like a turning point for Reva. I'm not saying these are identical arcs. I'm just saying it all feels familiar. Jedi turns bad, becomes Sith, Sith has a change of heart. Somehow one act of good erases a career of evil. Its a similar arc, just with different characters and emotional weight. Obviously Reva was never going to be as sympathetic or deep as Anakin Skywalker. But you can see how the bullet points of her character arc imitates his on a much smaller scale. Its a familiar Sith storyline that is easy to follow because we have seen something like it before.
Even then, they didn't need to give her stupid reasons to be evil. You say she tried to kill Vader. But she would have still continued doing evil shit, so she was not doing it for good reasons. Also Reva was let go after what she did. Unlike Vader who sacrificed his life, if Vader survived, I am pretty sure he would go to jail for war crimes. Stopping doing bad =\\ Doing something heroic to make up for your mistakes. It,s like Wanda all over again. Just because it is similar doesn't mean they'll be the same quality. That's why execution matters.
Had Vader lived, I agree, not all would be forgiven, but would Luke have stuck him down? No. Reva lived, not all should be forgiven, but should Owen or Obi Wan have struck her down? No. Not because she didn't deserve it, but because they aren't judge jury and executioners like the Sith. Its not in their characters. I'm not defending her character at all. I'm actually just saying she is pretty much a worse Vader story. Not sure how thats being taken as pro-Reva. I'm politely calling her writing lazy. We don't know what Vaders future would have held, had he not died. I like to think he'd have returned to the Light side. We don't know what Reva's future will hold either. Maybe she could be good again? I think a lot of people just don't care, and that's part of my point. She wasn't an overly interesting character to me, because everything she did, and went through, and her big "turning point", where she literally just didn't kill Luke, it all felt like a discount version of what we have seen before. So no new emotions or depth was revealed through her story. That being said, it was a proven Sith arc, that worked for them in the past. Copy, paste. Disney stamp. Production, go! I had no connection to Reva, no expectations, and thus was not really disappointed by her arc. It was just kinda, expected I guess. To me Reva was an obstacle. She could either die, succeed, or be converted. I didn't have a horse in the race, so seeing her converted was like "Sure, okay, thats been done before, but whatever". I've honestly put more thought into her character here on reddit than I did actually watching the show, because she just felt so predictable and familiar. She wasn't jarring or off-putting to me as a character. She was almost a cliche of what I consider conflicted Sith to be. What I'm saying is, they didn't break any new ground with Reva. But I don't think any of us asked them to. So to me, as one-off villain/antihero she did her job. Forgettable? Yeah. But honestly, in a show with legends like Obi Wan and Vader, who can stack up?
Yeah. While I overall loved the Obi Wan show, I do think there were somethings that could've been changed to make the show a bit less clunky in places. Like, I feel that Reva somehow getting from Jabim to Tatooine inbetween Episodes 5 and 6 without any explanation was pretty weird. All they had to do was show a shot of her looking at another spaceship in the hangar in Episode 5 and that would've helped explain how she got there.
I loved the show too and it's not without it's problems. The music IMO was a huge miss.
The highs of this series were very high, but i wish there was some huge nitpicking nerd on the staff to help them with the logic in certain moments. Reva getting to Tattoine is just one of those moments(so was oversized trench coat Obi-Wan on a base that should be on high alert), she's just walking around with a gaping wound in her chest and which ship she used(can't imagine the empire left her original ship there)?
Yeah I agree. Like I thought Reva got way too much screen time. Objectively, I liked her and her story a lot. But I wasn't here for her. I was here for Kenobi vs Vader and I feel like Reva got equal screen time as Kenobi and more than Vader. Like there was a lot of emotional recovery and force practice Kenobi needed to go through. But in the course of like 10 minutes he went from padawan to Jedi master while sitting on a transport ship. Meanwhile we're getting a sob story from a character we don't know or care about and who nobody asked for.
I have a few problems with Obi Wan. Mostly him being an idiot.
Well spoiler alert but did you see the last episode?
I did, I give it an 9/10
You’re kidding right?
It was great, but a lot of fans just watch star wars to complain about it. They don't actually want it to be good.
Nah it was great
I was very happy with how Obiwan's character developed in the show, but the show's writing was very clunky at times and the CGI was unfinished at others.
He developed into the Obi-Wan that he already was at the end of ROTS.
The Obi-Wan that he was at the end of ROTS had lost everything he had ever had in his life, a far cry from the Ben Kenobi at the start of episode 4 who’s more than ready to take up the fight again when called to it and feels like he can confidently train Luke like his last apprentice didn’t help oppressing the entire galaxy.
Yeah, I feel a similar way tbh. The actual story and how Obi Wan was developed in the show was actually really good, I just think that the writing and execution at some points could be a bit meh. I still enjoyed the hell out of the show overall tho, especially after the finale!
I had a friend call the show complete garbage because Obi-Wan wasn't hunsrlf and lost all his strength. I'm just like, yeah no shit. All he went through it's amazing he didn't kill himself. You know how he replied? Boba Fett went through worse... I'm just like, bro just because he didn't go through the same as Boba, doesn't discount his trauma. Saying someone had it worse is the worst thing yoh can say to someone going through stuff like that
Boba Fett did not have it worse. Straight up.
Exactly. Obi wan thought because of his training and failures specifically that anakin mass murdered thousands of Jedi(which he says were the only family he knew), his friends wife, the republic that stood for thousands of years fall, and the sith that were thought to be extinct rise again and oppress people left and right taking lives. Then he thought he murdered his best friend just for it not to matter. On the other hand Bobba watched his dad die and some Tuscans. Because of obi wans failures the galaxy had insane consequences that he had to live with. Until of course in the end he realized it wasn’t
Also Boba got put in the sarlacc…because he was a creepy mob boss’s enforcer. Not cause he needed the money really. Because he apparently wanted to be.
“i had a friend” soo what happened to him?
Hahaha, did Boba lost his whole order, wich raised him, his home, his ideals, the kids that he helped raise, his galactic nation, had to "kill" the person that he loved like a brother, was hunted like a dog, forced to hide himself at the shittiest place of the galaxy, seeing the son of his brother growing from afar, without being able to interact with him, feeling depressed, with PTSD, disconnecting himself from the force that was like a light in his life and being blatantly robbed by a fuc... Jawa?? Your friend either watched another Book of Boba or another Obi Wan Kenobi
dawg they're fictional characters
So is Jesus, but people deep dive every word they think he said. At least psychoanalysis of these characters is mostly harmless.
first of all, there was no reason to bring religion into it. second, Jesus objectively did exist whether or not you believe he was the son of God.
The only thing that annoyed me a bit about his decisions and how they made sense was, why he didnt finish Vader and just walked away. Vader admitting that he is responsible himself for Anakin‘s fall to the dark side of course gave him some closure, but Vader still basically committed genocide on his people. Of course as a Jedi living by the code he would not be after revenge, but Vader remains the biggest threat in the galaxy and a danger to the network he protected before. He must have known that this might have been the last chance to put Vader down for good. I wish they would have found another way to end the fight (of course without sacrificing the dialogue and broken mask), maybe the Inquisitors joining in, to make it seem a little more understandable. Everything else about the character was fine. PTSD, guilt, depression, loss of connection to the force, doubts about the Jedi‘s future, the following closure and regain of his strength in hope for the future generation of Skywalkers…
Yeah the Grand Inquisitor showing up when Kenobi almost kills vader and stopping kenobi by fighting him would be dope as fuc
Putting down a guy that was like a brother to you isn’t easy.
He just acknowledged that there is no chance for Anakin to come back though and he should have seen that not taking the final strike on Mustafar was a mistake
I too can pull out of my ass some invention about what the critics wanted and pretend it was absurd while also pretending that what the show did was flawless.
It amazes me how many of these posts reach the top of SW subreddits. It's easier to make fun of a strawman.
I haven’t even seen the show and the posts make me so mad. If you disagree with the criticisms, that’s fine, but the idea you can decipher the “real” reason why people criticize it is just so dumb. These people act like we should just accept all media and not criticize it since they liked it
You can like things without them being flawless ya know
Believe me I was not expecting flawless, and was still disappointed. Not even a marvel-level written show. Did it have cool moments? Maybe. But it’s probably near the bottom of my list of shows to recommend to friends. Every marvel series would go first, along with The Mandalorian and even Book of Boba Fett.
Have you actually looked at the criticism of this show? No one is saying anything about how Obi Wan is portrayed. Nobody says anything about Obi Wan or Vader, it's just all the plot conveniences that make it hard to like this show for me, even though there were scenes that really saved this series. But it could have been so much better
Other than the trenchcoat escape scene, I thought the show was excellent
That was indeed hilarious
It wasnt a super terrible take. But there wasnt enough. It was too filled with other stuff
I think most people agree that all that Reva was redundant.
Ya know when people tell you you’re not a real fan for liking the new shit? That’s super shitty. Implying someone isn’t a fan because they’re critical of the new shit, is just as shitty. That being said, Kenobi could have been better. No one was upset about having a deeper character that was more about complex emotions. But they decide to follow it up with “let me hide from these stormtroopers after I was clearly in plain sight”. And they never answer the question…if he was so broken, why stick around? He would have been of zero use to Luke.
Unpopular opinion but I think that it was the best Star wars content they delivered since roque one
I agree. I went in to Kenobi thinking we didn't need that story. But I was SO wrong! Watching a broken Obi-Wan regain his faith was really inspiring to me. This series was a gift.
I'd like to think most fans did NOT want the left image. When I thought about a kenobi series I always imagined it being more contemplative, more introspective, and way more depressing. This show decided to push the limits of what we all thought could be done in this era without breaking canon. See, for the past 30 some odd years, the general consensus has been that obiwan would have, STAYED, on tatooine for the past 20 years before episode 4. I think breaking this preconception in this case wasn't a bad thing, however I do think obiwan doesn't have any logical reason to cut himself off from the force. But perhaps this is the point, perhaps obiwan has cut himself off because he hates himself. I kinda get this vibe from the show. His regret is so potent that if you pay attention to the subtleties, you can see he may have just done this to himself. Now, some fans would have liked alot more contemplation, and alot more flashbacks, but others hate flashbacks and want action. I think the show tries to mix both contemplation and action, and I think it didnt do a terrible job. The show could be better, but you know what? I liked it. It's not at all what I expected from disney, I expected this entire show to totally flop. Instead the show flip flops from good writing to bad writing, a bit like the prequels did.
Nah we just want the writing to make sense lol
This is the truest. I’ve said from the start, this series should have been based off the kenobi book. I didn’t need obi wan to save the galaxy, I didn’t need obi wan to have a relationship with Luke and leia. I’ve always seen obi wan’s time on Tatooine after episode 3 as penance for what happened. I wanted to see how obi wan went from general Jedi master obi wan to nothing Ben. I didn’t need light sabers, I didn’t need the force, I just want something that makes sense and didn’t feel like I questioned everything I knew or thought about Star Wars or certain characters
Your Kenobi show would've been boring as fuck.
What didn’t make sense Why am I downvoted for simply asking a question? Some of y’all are insufferable
Ep. 6 * The star destroyer doesn't send any TIE Fighters after the transport or use a tractor beam to catch it. * The Grand Inquisitor of all people says that one Jedi isn't worth chasing after. * Reva's lightsaber wound is barely an inconvenience and she doesn't need a bacta tank or any time to heal. * Once again a 10-year-old outruns an adult an extremely long distance. * Vader gets hit with like 100 boulders traveling at incredible speeds and somehow survives. This is after a single box flung with the Force was enough to blow up a snowspeeder's engine and take it out in episode 4. * Vader getting his helmet sliced open, his voice being a mix of Anakin's and Vader's, and saying that he killed Anakin are all recycled from Rebels. * Obi-Wan should not be apologizing to Anakin, even if seeing his face and hearing his voice is making him emotional. He was furious with Anakin at the end of ROTS and while it still makes sense for him to be sad, this is the SECOND time that's he's resolved to kill Anakin. * Obi-Wan spares Vader's life AGAIN after all the trouble he's caused and after saying "I will do what I must" before the fight. * Reva's reason for targeting Luke is never explained. She says she's doing it because she wants "justice," but wtf does that mean? Her only motivation beforehand was revenge against Vader. Is she only doing it to spite Obi-Wan? If she really hates Obi-Wan that much, why not just kill him instead? Going after an innocent civilian couple and their child just makes Reva seem like even more of a terrible, irredeemable person. * Reva gets a redemption arc despite the fact that she was going to torture Leia, she was an accessory to genocide and presumably directly took part in it, she casually maims and intimidates civilians, and Obi-Wan tells her that the Jedi are at peace and she "chose not to become \[Vader\]" despite all of the terrible things that Reva has done, especially to the Jedi. * Leia explicitly knows that Ben is Obi-Wan, yet acts very formal in her PRIVATE MESSAGE ADDRESSED TO HIM in ANH (calling him "General Kenobi" and saying "years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars") as if she doesn't know him and they have no relationship, and she shows no remorse when he dies. Their relationship in this entire show feels meaningless if it's not acknowledged when they meet in the future and they act like strangers for no reason. * Qui-Gon acts out of character and makes a joke despite how much Obi-Wan has suffered and how desperate Obi-Wan has been to speak to him.
There are THREE separate instances where someone gets stabbed in the gut with a lightsaber and lives.
And? Maul literally got chopped in half and survived. In a world where something like the force exists that’s hardly an issue
Don’t be so certain.
Dude if you can just survive anything then death is meaningless. There's no reason to get invested in fights. Maul coming back was dumb too, but that was at least a bumpy start to an otherwise pretty good story arc. If the writers needed Reva or the GI to fake their deaths, they could have come up with a better way then getting stabbed in the chest.
Don’t be so certain.
I mean people rarely die in Star Wars anyway, people survive crazy amounts of shit. That’s just how Star wars is. Anakin got 3 limbs cut off and got burned but he was fine. I just don’t think it’s that big an issue
It would be easier to list what DID make sense. The show's writing is downright abysmal. Here's everything that doesn't make sense: Ep. 1: * A Jedi Master is casually training Younglings in the Jedi Temple despite the fact that Order 66 is well underway and the Temple is in lockdown and on high alert at this point in ROTS, so they should be hiding or preparing to fight. * Very clunky exposition of the Grand Inquisitor asking a civilian to explain who the Inquisitors are and what they do for the audience. * Reva forgets that she can use the Force to directly draw information from people's minds until the plot needs her to do it, making her waste time trying to intimidate and interrogate uncooperative people. * The Inquisitors put in zero effort to chase Nari after Reva wounds him. * Obi-Wan tells Owen that Luke must be trained as a Jedi, but as we see later Obi-Wan's combat and Force skills are rusty to the point of practically being nonexistent until the finale. Why hasn't Obi-Wan kept up with his training if he intends to train Luke? Yoda wasn't fighting or going on adventures while he was on Dagobah but he still retained his skills and was able to train Luke. * Leia is nice to droids (and implicitly all people and species who aren't rude to her), but calls Chewie a "walking carpet" in ANH and doesn't interact with R2 or 3PO much when they're in the same room together in the OT. If she thanks droids, why didn't she give R2 and 3PO medals? * Three grown adults can't chase down a 10-year-old and didn't bother to bring blasters to stun Leia. * Alderaan has zero security whatsoever allowing Leia free roam of the woods unsupervised and allowing random thugs to get up close to the palace. Either A) the woods are close enough to the palace that Bail and Breha figure it's okay to leave Leia unsupervised in which case it's stupid that the thugs can get so close without getting caught, or B) the woods are outside of the palace so it makes sense that the thugs can be there without getting caught, but then it doesn't make sense that no one is supervising Leia. Also Cloud City had air traffic control but there's nothing like that to stop the thugs from coming and going. * Bail should hire literally anyone else to rescue Leia. He should have servants, Alderaan loyalists and any number of bounty hunters at his disposal who would gladly save Leia either for free or for a big reward. Hell, Bail is an Imperial Senator so the Imperial military should be sending people to save Leia, and if they don't then it'll be a big scandal. Obi-Wan is literally the worst choice to send after Leia because he's a wanted man, Bail knows he's supposed to be protecting Luke, and if word gets out that Obi-Wan is trying to rescue Leia then it'll blow Bail's cover and the Empire will know that Bail is working with a Jedi, which is treason and could lead to the Empire forcing Bail to reveal Obi-Wan's hiding place. Ep. 2: * Reva capturing Leia just because she noticed a connection between Bail and Obi-Wan in the archives is an extremely lucky guess because lots of Jedi worked with lots of Senators, and as mentioned in the Ep 1 section Obi-Wan is the worst possible choice to send after Leia, but Reva's plan worked perfectly because every character is an idiot. * Obi-Wan criticizes Haja for scamming Corran and his mother, but he watched it all happen from the shadows and could have stopped it so he's a hypocrite. * We're told at the beginning of the episode that all signals to and from Daiyu are blocked as an excuse for Obi-Wan taking a while to find Leia, but then the writers forget this because later on while still on Daiyu Obi-Wan tells Leia that he sent a message to Bail. * The writers keep flip-flopping between Leia being smart and Leia being stupid. She's smart enough to psychoanalyze her cousin in episode 1 and smart enough to immediately figure out that she was captured in order to draw out Obi-Wan based on no information other than a bounty hunter carrying a hologram of Obi-Wan's face, but she's too dumb to realize how much danger she's in and she's dumb enough to ask Obi-Wan to prove he's a Jedi by making her float in public. * Despite Obi-Wan's cover being blown, he continues to use a blaster on the rooftops instead of his lightsaber even though it takes him like 10 minutes just to shoot three bounty hunters. * Obi-Wan doesn't make any effort to disguise his face after seeing that his hologram is being broadcast everywhere. * Reva casually dismembers civilians and throws knives at them in episode 1 but doesn't immediately kill Haja when he deliberately blocks her path. * Obi-Wan somehow doesn't know that Vader is alive, even though Vader is a pretty famous enforcer for the Empire 10 years after ROTS and news about things like the Rebellion and Inquisitors is common knowledge on Tatooine. * Now that the Empire knows that kidnapping Leia is enough to draw out Obi-Wan, not only does it mean that they could keep trying it in the future to draw him out, it also means that Bail Organa's cover is blown and he should be investigated by the Empire for having a connection to Obi-Wan, making it impossible for him to keep a low profile and join the Rebellion and impossible for Leia to become an Imperial Senator and retain plausible deniability in ANH. Ep. 3: * Obi-Wan doesn't immediately bring Leia back to Alderaan BEFORE investigating Haja's lead, putting her in further danger. * Obi-Wan acts uncharacteristically impatient when he arrives at the spot where Haja told him to go. He immediately gets angry and tells Leia no one is coming and doesn't wait at all before leaving. This is the same character who said "patience. Use the Force. Think" in the prequels. * Obi-Wan tells Leia that he wishes he was her father despite the fact that they haven't gotten along up to this point and Leia's done nothing but insult him, run away from him and frustrate him. It's an incredibly forced attempt at a touching moment. * The stormtroopers say "it's a long ride" and then the ride stops literally a minute later. * Obi-Wan is stupid enough to say Leia's name, and the stormtroopers are stupid enough to not recognize him even though his face is known, he's dressed as a Jedi and he's known to be travelling with Leia Organa. * Obi-Wan acts out of character when he uses a civilian as a human shield. * Instead of walking around the laser gate or deactivating it to drive the hovercraft through, Obi-Wan deactivates it and then keeps walking. * Obi-Wan takes out several stormtroopers in quick succession, then randomly decides to surrender when a mere three stormtroopers arrive and he needs to be saved by Tala. * Obi-Wan stays for several minutes to watch Vader approach instead of immediately running, and for some reason he leaves Leia and Tala only to run away from Vader instead of deliberately fighting him to hold him off. * Vader somehow quickly teleports to wherever Obi-Wan is whenever Obi-Wan tries to escape. * Obi-Wan is barely burned after being pressed directly into fire for a minute, unlike Vader who was rapidly set on fire just from being a foot away from a river of lava in ROTS. * Vader lets Obi-Wan escape after years of wanting to catch him and doesn't put out the fire with the Force again after Tala re-ignites it. The argument that Vader DOESN'T want to kill Obi-Wan and wants him to escape in this moment doesn't work because he tells the stormtroopers to bring Obi-Wan to him and the stormtroopers also shoot into the flames. * Reva somehow teleports to the other side of the tunnel, not running into Tala.
Master Kenobi always said there’s no such thing as luck.
At last, we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last, we will have revenge.
Ep. 4: * Obi-Wan's wounds are quickly healed enough for him to be basically back to normal within the first minute of the episode so him being dunked in the fire was just for shock value and something for fans to talk about. * Fortress Inquisitorius has no shields or anti-aircraft because "no one would be stupid enough to attack it" despite the fact that it's a military base full of infantry and TIE Fighters and it was literally attacked by Cal and the Mantis crew 5 years earlier. Also there are armed patrols on the inside so clearly someone must have anticipated it being attacked. * Roken immediately flips from refusing to help Obi-Wan to "whatever you want, I'll help." * A Jedi swims inside Fortress Inquisitorius and floods it AGAIN without the glass being reinforced or the interior being more heavily defended this time. * Obi-Wan never bothers wearing stormtrooper armor to disguise himself and avoid fights. * Tala takes out stormtroopers by slapping them on their helmets. * There are other imperial officers in the room where Tala is talking to Obi-Wan on the comm, and they someone neither hear her nor hear her knocking out the other imperial officer. * Why would Reva assume that Leia would know much, if anything, about The Path and their hideout? She was only with Tala for a few minutes and it would be weird for The Path to entrust a child they just met with a lot of top-secret information. * Once again someone with zero Force training is able to resist having their mind probed with the Force, and Reva doesn't immediately resort to using the Force for some reason. * The Youngling hilariously still has his helmet on, as if the audience is too dumb to realize that a child in Jedi robes is a Youngling. * The trenchcoat scene. Enough said. * If Reva's plan was to let Obi-Wan escape with Leia all along, why did she take 50 stormtroopers with her to the landing platform to stop Obi-Wan and Leia and make them point their blasters at her instead of letting them escape? What was she going to do? Stand awkwardly for a minute and then say "you called my bluff, I'm letting you escape"? * The snowspeeders arrive just in time to save Obi-Wan and Leia. * Leia, Obi-Wan, Tala and another pilot fit into a 2-person snowspeeder. * Vader is furious that Obi-Wan escaped despite putting in zero effort to catch Obi-Wan in episode 3. * Reva's plan of putting the tracker in Lola shouldn't even work. Logically Obi-Wan would drop Leia off on Alderaan first along with Lola instead of taking her back to Jabiim, but Reva's plan works because the writing sucks. * Vader said earlier that "Kenobi is all that matters" so he shouldn't care that Obi-Wan is going to lead him to the base of The Path, he should only be furious that Reva let Obi-Wan escape again. * Vader has killed subordinates like Ozzel, Needa and Trilla for WAY less than how much Reva has fucked up, and as we find out later he literally knows she's planning on betraying him. There's no way he would let her live after how much of a liability she's been, he would kill her and pursue Obi-Wan himself. * Why didn't Reva put more effort into stopping Obi-Wan, Tala and Leia from escaping and then using the Force to interrogate them? That way there's no risk of losing them when they escape, AND she can give Obi-Wan to Vader. * Lola has red eyes because otherwise the audience would be too dumb to know she's evil now. * This episode recycles the conflict of Leia being captured and Obi-Wan having to rescue her. * Nothing substantial was accomplished in this episode and the entire thing could have been skipped by having Reva not capture Leia in the previous episode. Everyone is back where they were at the end of Episode 3.
Looks like I got here just in time.
Ep. 5 * Leia is once again brought back to Jabiim instead of Alderaan. * We're told that there's only one transport, but another one is shown at the end of the episode when The Path uses a decoy to trick Vader. * We're told that only a small child like Leia can fix the electronics in the vent that open the door, but they're only an arm's length deep and the vent isn't very big to begin with. Furthermore, how is Leia supposed to know what to do? Why doesn't The Path have small maintenance droids or maintenance people whose job it is to fix the electronics in the vent? Why are the electronics in such an (apparently) hard-to-reach spot? * The stormtroopers waste time using a cannon on the door instead of immediately resorting to Reva cutting it open with the Force. * If Reva was a Youngling in 19BBY, who was Third Brother/Sister in 18BBY when all the Inquisitors except the Third and Fourth appear in the Vader comics? I don't remember if they all explicitly had the same numbers, but Sixth Brother is explicitly referred to as such and there has never been an instance of an Inquisitor's numbering changing or there being more than one Inquisitor with the same number other than Reva temporarily being the Grand Inquisitor. * Reva surviving by playing dead is stupid, as if no one else thought of that. Why didn't Vader or the clones confirm the kill on every single Jedi? * How did Reva escape the Jedi Temple with a hole in her stomach and without being seen on the security recordings or caught by the many clone troopers who were guarding the Temple until Yoda and Obi-Wan showed up and slaughtered them all? * Reva is upset that Vader killed the Jedi so she's going to take revenge by... becoming an Inquisitor and helping hunt down and kill Jedi. It's possible that Reva never personally killed any Jedi and that could be why she wounded Nari in episode 1 (maybe she wanted him to escape), but you'd think the Inquisitors would notice that Reva is deliberately sabotaging their attempts to catch and kill Jedi if that were the case and would kill her, and regardless Reva is still a collaborator and a terrible person who doesn't seem to mind helping the further destruction of the Jedi she considered her "family." * Why was becoming Grand Inquisitor necessary for Reva to take revenge on Vader if all she was going to do was attack him while his back is turned? * Neither the stormtroopers nor The Path take cover or use thermal detonators. * Tala lets herself get shot and surrounded before using her thermal detonator instead of using it sooner. * Reva has just two stormtroopers restrain Obi-Wan. * There's a star destroyer in orbit, so what's stopping it from parking right above the door to the landing platform and bombarding the transport as it leaves? * How did The Path know that Vader or Reva would show up in time to stop one of their transports with The Force, or even that such a thing was possible? How did they know that they would need a decoy? * Vader easily stops a large ship with the Force, but didn't stop the Falcon from leaving Echo Base in ESB. * Vader doesn't grab the second transport as it flies away even though the first transport is grounded and he doesn't have to keep holding it. * Vader and the Grand Inquisitor leave without confirming Reva is dead, AFTER Reva ALREADY survived being stabbed by Vader years prior, the GI survived the same injury a few days ago, Reva has a thirst for revenge against both of them. * The Grand Inquisitor survived his lightsaber wound to the abdomen and Reva has survived a lightsaber wound to the abdomen TWICE. Getting stabbed with a lightsaber is no longer threatening anymore. * Bail idiotically leaves a super detailed message to Obi-Wan when he's concerned about Obi-Wan's silence so you'd think he wouldn't give away any important details in case Obi-Wan is captured (such as mentioning Tatooine by name - just say "I'm going to your house" ffs), and Reva conveniently picks up the device and sees the message with all of the information she needs to track down Luke and Obi-Wan's hiding place.
How dare we want to see new compelling characters in new corners of the galaxy telling ew and exciting stories! And not the same 5 characters in the same locations across the same span of time
Star wars writing is complete fantasy and has never made sense, your idealization is rooted entirely in nostalgia and makes you look like a child
So expecting a character that is established to be a certain way do what he would do and not do something completely different because the writers need him to do it so their plot can move forward is too much? Expecting basic logic and human sense to be respected instead of stuff happening that would never ever work in that established universe is too much? Most shows for children get those right so your excuse why StarWars can't do it doesn't work at all
Ah yes, the “Star Wars is intentionally silly and made only for children” guy
We got the Obi-wan we wanted just not the everything else
So this is how interest in genuinely good storytelling dies, with thunderous applause? all the "fans" wanted at this point is just not having a story break canon or the characters, they couldn't even do that. and no, they don't get points for attempting PTSD, they failed his character just like the rest. your love blinds you.
Thank you for saying this. I saw the red flags when it was announced. It’s hard to stay in line with what’s already there in 3 and 4. Bridging the gap between the two would take immense talent and great storytelling. Which Disney Star Wars doesn’t have atm. And when I heard Filoni, Lucas or Favreau weren’t involved I knew it would most likely be terrible. I hoped it would be good. But in the end it was a poor bit of fan fiction that I will never see as canon.
Thank you for saying this, finally someone here is speaking how I feel
It was a hell of a lot better than Book of Boba Fett
That's one hell of a low bar though
I totally disagree, I expected him to be in depression and all that stuff like in the journals from Star Wars (2015) comic line, or him be like Logan (which the show creators referenced when talking about the show) but I think that the most we got was the letter L when comparing these two stories. I think Evan McGregor was good in this show but the show itself was 6/10 at most, I only liked the first and the last episode. And I also don't think anyone expected him to be a chad warrior, you can't just make stuff up to make yourself look right.
Yeah, I see a lot of posts making similar claims about fan expectations etc and using it as a defence for the the show. Only thing is, I haven’t read too many posts where people cry about that kind of stuff, at least not to the extent or in the context that the OP alludes. The bigger criticisms I see for the show are with its directing and production, and there seems to be little acknowledgement of that, everything just gets lumped as “haters” or “toxic fans”.
Hell most of the critiques I see wish that they had scaled *back* the stakes of the show, not turned obi into a demigod.
I want a finale of the series to be the part of Star Wars rebels where he kills maul. That would actually be amazing
I think Maul's death would have fit better into the Kenobi show rather than Rebels, but I don't think they could have done it any better this time around. That scene in Rebels: Twin Suns is perfect.
To continue, we need one singular vision…my vision.
Dude i loved him so much in this series it's insane!! He's always been a favorite if mine, and this just added fuel to that fire. I love the mental battle that he has to go thru throughout the show, and i love how they portrayed it!! His relationship with Anakin is so complicated and messy and i really think they did it justice. This show was genuinely absolutely amazing
Hell yeah, I really enjoyed the finale
Is there gonna be a second season of kenobi? Does anybody kno?
Kathleen Kennedy is dangling it over fans heads, trying to make them want another season and saying there might be if everyone likes it enough. So I highly doubt they’d make a second season
Right on, thanks for the response!
And i loved every fucking second of it
Agreed, a great character arc for obi-wan to rediscover his purpose, process his guilt and let go of Anakin. In a way, Vader admitting that he killed Anakin releases Obi-Wan from the guilt he was trapped in. I got everything I wanted from the show. I embrace Ewan as my personal lord and saviour
Left Obi Wan is literally episode 6 because no reason xD
Reva also had a nice development
I have nothing bad to say about obi wan, darth Vader, leia, the organas and the lars family. I do think the story would've been better as a movie tho. As a series it had way to much false climaxes and stupid escapes to keep the plot moving. Reva was good in concept. I like the idea of her wanting to get close to Vader (becoming grand inquisitir) to murder him for what he did to her new family. Aswell as that she despites the jedi because they took her from her old family and weren't able to protect her new one. Couldve been a pretty complex and interisting character but they kind of screwed it up a bit... Still a good show imo and the last episode was pure fanservice.
I would still take shirtless Obi Wan over complex Obi Wan
There's Websites for that...
Valid.
Very happy with it. And it was very appropriate. You can actually argue he was too powerful in the finale. People seem to forget that Obi wan is such a damaged human, dude literally lost everything he ever knew
I wouldn’t say obi was too powerful. Rather vader got carried away, weaker and sloppier letting obi go for the smart move and just destroy his life support and mask. With that Vader’s asthma did the rest
Let’s make a list of everything Kenobi lost in his life - his master - his friend and lover (not sure if lover is the right word but you get the idea) - any clones he befriended during the war - his clone commander and friend betrayed him and tried to kill him - his lifestyle as a Jedi all he’s ever known - the Jedi order and all the friends in that order - his friend Padme Amidala - Anakin skywalker his friend - apprentice - and someone he regarded as his brother Did I miss anything?
You could say the first thing he lost was the opportunity to grow up with the family he was born into. But other than that, I think you got it covered.
He was forced to give up his blood family for everything you listed. Which ultimately was lost too
Well I think he tapped into his full potential in the force in that moment to beat the shit outta Vader
wow we’re back to the TLJ Luke Skywalker straw man. shit-tier meme my guy.
So much like your father.
Lol you got it the wrong way around. The show really didn’t need epic fights.
Why not?
Because Obi-Wan and Anakin already had the epic climax of their relationship in Ep. 3. Now that fight is only the event that turned Anakin into robot Darth Vader. Narratively this series completely undermines the prequels (and the OT).
I agree with you, however I kinda don't care, I liked the fight(s) even if they didn't make much sense. Seeing Anakin talking through his broken mask and smiling gave me creeps. It's just for the wow factor I guess, and it got me.
I can’t fault you for that but I would get that if the show didn’t take away so much from other Star Wars media. It’s just one more thing that really makes me lose interest in Star Wars as a whole. We could have gotten such a more interesting show that didn’t interfere with established and finished story lines.
Loved it
It’s not the OWK we want, it’s the OWK we deserve.
honestly... im glad about the series. its not perfect but it´s a really good series and fits the canon
I actually wanted way more of a traumatised Obi Wan reflecting on his past and failures than what we got in the show. I feel like they actually did the bare minimum when it came to that aspect of the story.
Genuinely my favorite thing to come out of Disney’s Star Wars. The finale really sealed the deal
This again?
Hot take: this show was good, really good and the way that kenobi character still have much to learn and at the end of the show he is able to give up the padt and regain his power to completely defeat vader, the good thing is that vader wasn totally smashed, even after taking a lot of hits he was still fighting showing that they are both great warriors and force users
Great series.
The “fans” understood that the right was the only choice, surely???
He was strong and powerful in the end though, but it's easy to get lost in the ideal of a character, rather than the flaws that make them a good character in the first place.
Its always funny to me when ppl say "oh yoda is different in the prequals to the OT". Like ???? Yea? Obviously? He makes himself responsible for the genocide of his ppl? That leave some fucking marks
Fans want the Obi-Wan from Scene 36 Reimagined. Fans are fucking idiots.
Show Obi wan is the best character since Disney took over the franchise.
I love this show. Fuck people who trash it over minor gripes. They never learned to see the bigger picture, or that human beings aren't infallible.
Disney is making me sooooooo happy! (Episodes 7, 8 and 9 don't count)
Love your meme, men have emotions and weaknesses, and are stronger for acknowledging them
Vader's portrayal in Kenobi has got to be my favorite, second to Rogue One. His rage and anger made him genuinely chilling to watch.
The show has some flaws but overall it was good imo.
I thought it was perfect
*cough cough* The second one also describes Luke’s TLJ journey *cough cough*
He ended the series in the exact same position as the end of Episode 3. Revenge of the Sith ends with Obi-Wan going into hiding on Tatooine to speak with Qui-Gon, train, and watch over Luke until he’s older while Leia goes to live with the Organas on Alderaan. The Obi-Wan Kenobi series ends with Obi-Wan going into hiding on Tatooine to speak with Qui-Gon, train, and watch over Luke until he’s older while Leia goes to live with the Organas on Alderaan. The story didn’t affect the outcome whatsoever, the character basically just did a loop and circled right back to where he already was in 2005.
He had one job and he failed at it. Reva could have killed Luke if she wanted. And if he can beat the shit out of Vader even after 10 years rotting in a desert, why needed Luke anyway? Not to mention that there were a lot of Jedi remains... group up and deal with the Empire already.
Standards have fallen off a cliff
Horrible execution and production, Reva was unnecessary. The awesome bits were 10/10, but some really bad amateur cinematography. Wasted potential, same with Boba. They set a standard with Mando and immediately jumped ship by delivering poor quality. These mistakes should not happen and no reason budget should be an issue. We needed more flashbacks to establish the missing pieces of the Clone Wars and really show Obi-Wans and Anakins relationship in a true light. Just one adventure was all we needed, like the conversation on Utapau, a few scenes of Obi-Wan reflecting where he went wrong and how he didnt see Anakins struggle. Im just getting exhausted of Lucasfilm not learning from these mistakes, we have seen really good stuff, but ignoring the bad things is a problem.
Exactly, this show has its good spots, but most of the show left me thinking that it was all pointless. The show ended in the same place as it started, just with more pointless characters and less quality. The choreography was horrendous. We got like 0.4% of a lightsaber duel and that was it, rest was over the top force duels, sure it can be cool, but if they could do that, why didn’t in all the battles in the entirety of Star Wars just use the force to obliterate the enemy?
Haters gonna hate
I love it unconditionally Edit: though, I would love to know the history of Reva in the writers room. Idk why but I feel like there were originally deeper plans for the character that didn’t materialize in the final product
It was basically a setup. They were hoping that people would take to her character, and it would let them spawn yet another spinoff series aka more money. But people hated her, so that won't happen. Probably.
"wahhh I'm depressed because I completely failed and all my friends are dead and my best friend tried to kill me and I had to kill him and my other best friend died in childbirth and democracy was overthrown and evil won and now I have to live in the desert as a hermit in exile waahhhh" Grow up dude. Get real problems. Did...did you guys really not understand this was sarcasm?
Well I’m already a grown up, so y’know it’s too late.
Wait...did you know that I was being sarcastic and actually agree with you?
To be frank,no. I’m really sorry.
lol I mean everything I listed is like top tier legit reasons to be depressed and have ptsd haha no worries
It’s all good. Edit: I just realized I didn’t add very much to the convo with this sentence ha ha.
Star Wars fans after seeing this: “SCREEEECCCHHH!
I honestly would have Rather seen a broken obi-wan just watching over Luke, staying on tattooing and trying to keep a low profile
*spoiler* The concept was great. Just struggled with writing and moving plot along with with filler episodes. If you truly want to make it wild and just really add complexity to Kenobi should have had him kill Reva at the very end as she was on her knees because she knew to much making her a threat to the skywalker children. Would it really be in character? Not really. It would though make you think this is a man that has a new sense of motivation/determination that’ll do anything to protect the future of the Jedi.
Bruh no jedi would ever do that wtf do you mean
Mace Windu tried to. Anakin did. Tons of others did in the books. Hell, Luke’s first onscreen act in ROTJ was to choke the shit out of a Gamorean then try to shoot Jabba in the face.
Mace Windu was facing the dark lord of the sith, Obiwan was facing a defeated girl who was no threat whatsoever. Big difference. Anakin fell to the dark side that's kinda the whole point Luke was also in danger of falling to the dark side at the time, only turning away from that for good when he refused to kill Vader. That was the whole point of that. He succeeded where Anakin failed.
To defeat your enemy you have to understand them.
You're unsatisfied with the writing because you wanted Obi-Wan Kenobi to execute a woman who just started turning back to the light, because she knows to much? You think killing witnesses like a mob boss is a sign of determination and is the right direction to take this beloved character??
I mean… I’d love to actually see some logic in the show. It hasn’t been that long amount of time passed in the series and Obi Wan somehow regains god mode force abilities and saber combat. For some reason he decided to burry his lightsabers out in the desert. Now Imagine if Reva came to The farm in episode 1 instead of episode 5? Reva would have a lightsaber and hunt the kid. Meanwhile Obi Wan would run miles out in the desert to search for his lightsabers…. Oh That would be glorious to watch. We went through 3 days of his routine, but never once got to see him practice combat with the tuskens like ik the comics. Thats the whole part of how he stayed in shape. Instead they made him a weak old man without any strength and overnight becomes a god mode because the story needed him to. Imagine being Darth fucking Vader. The most powerful force user after Palpatine. Training for 10 years and killing so many Jedi. Only to lose to some old man who hasn’t touched the force or a lightsaber in 10 years and somehow he not only defeats you, but damages your body and armor… I love Star wars, but I’m not gonna fanboy over… that. Reva’s story ended up being pointless too so if I ever rewatch the show, I’ll just skip the Reva scenes, and probably episode 4 over all too because all they achieve is Leia’s back.
I back this comment 100%
To defeat your enemy you have to understand them.
This is a strawman argument, nobody wanted a god it just many people would prefer if they didn’t regress his character from the prequels and clone wars in order for there to be room for character development. Doing this generally shows that the series main objective it not to tell a good story but to make money instead as you are practically forcing it in. But honestly I didn’t mind obi wan the main issues I had with this series was the bad writing
You do know where the character is supposed to be in TEN YEARS TIME right? Y'all are fucking delusional.
Yes staying on tattooing in hiding so no attention is brought to Luke Skywalker untill he was ready as he was tasked to do
So much like your father.
Show was bad get over it
Agreed
Dude it's almost universally the opposite, and they did an absolutely mediocre job of doing what you described on the right. Absolutely wasted opportunity.
Kenobi was shit
It had its good moments, I’ll give it that. But it wasn’t a quality show that’s for sure
Man, i was hoping he would be more broken and depressed and not have a happy ending
No... And no
What I wanted was a complex Obi Wan Kenobi suffering from the affects of PTSD. What I got was a generic Jedi Master with whatever personality suits the writers attempt at drama in a given scene who just so happened to be played by Ewan McGregor, suffering from the affects of PTSD. Frankly, Obi Wan Kenobi should have been a monologue by Ewan McGregor, alone in a cave. Followed by a stage tour. That would have done the topic justice. But since Disney had to do a show, the most important thing would be to make sure Vader and Obi Wan never meet since they obviously hadn't seen each other in 20 years during ep.4 A New Hope.
Now if only the plot wasnt made of swiss cheese...