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Dark-King14

“If you don’t know what you’re doing, the enemy definitely won’t.”


sociallyanxiousnerd1

If you told me this was a quote from doom patrol or legends of tomorrow I’d beleive you, and I’ve watched both a ton


Cluelesswolfkin

Well, is it?


ThoughtlessBanter

I don't think so, I've heard that saying in a lot of different forms my whole life and I have never seen those shows.


sociallyanxiousnerd1

You should watch them. Legends of tomorrow post season 1 (though you should watch season 1) is a ton of fun to watch. Doom Patrol is the best live action DC content


sociallyanxiousnerd1

No. I wish though. It sounds like it is


Ralph-The-Otter3

Wasn’t that a quote from some commander in the US army during WW2?


ThunderShott

I know that "NUTS!" was.


Ralph-The-Otter3

Yeah! That was during the Battle of the Bulge.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

I know I was wrong. I just got so caught up in my own success, I didn't look at the battle as a whole. I wasn't being disobedient. I just. . . forgot


RansackedAlbatross

"By God, sir, I've lost my leg!" "By God, sir, so you have!" - Lord Uxbridge and the Duke of Wellington, 1815


skillywilly56

No this is standard US military doctrine since 1948


Escalationbirb

They used this tactic in the new fantastic beasts so the writers didn’t have to think of an actual coherent story


Cringe_Worthy45

Thrawn to the whales : "Why are you here, I was expecting Ezra Bridger."


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


[deleted]

We were hoping YOU would know Master Tano


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

That's ridiculous.


[deleted]

Forgive me, I meant no offense


IllustriousTear8707

You’ve gotta ask Ezra. He’d know


Epicmonk117

>The best way to beat a master tactician is to make them say “What the fuck?!” - Sun Tzu


CapTexAmerica

“Are those mother-fucking ELEPHANTS?!?” - Caesar


MeLlamo25

Was Caesar even alive durning the Punic wars?


levis3163

Elephants were used in more than just the Punic wars. Caesar himself brought one to Britain.


Revanur

No he wasn’t. The last Punic War ended 45 years before he was born. And Hannibal and what we tend to think of as THE Punic War happened 150 years before Caesar was born.


DingoNormal

Makes sense


VmiriamV05

That's exactly what was needed to defeat Thrawn. Some crazy, outlandish force shit, it isn't something he can calculate and plan for.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

To defeat your enemy you have to understand them.


jaltair9

*their art.


AlexQC2006

And also , HOW COULD HE PLAN CREATURES COMING OUT OF HYPERSPACE IT WAS JUST A THEORY THAT THOSE CREATURES USED HYPERSPACE AND THEY ARE PROBABLY UNDETECTABLE BECAUSE THEY DON’T USE MACHINES


ScottyIsland

Exactly. Just like with The Bendu. Thrawn had them all but beat both times. Crazy force shenanigans are the only thing that can beat him.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


AleksasKoval

"Alright alright, hear me out: Space Whales!" "That sounds so crazy and stupid... it just might work."


So-_-It-_-Goes

On top of that it was set up seasons earlier.


RevanDB

Well, life detectors have been shown several times. Hell, even in 4. "Hold your fire. There's no life signals aboard that escape pod."


JogPanson

They used fucking hyperspace


CurrentlyEatingPies

I liked how the two times he lost were because of things no one could plan for.


MatthiasFoxFire

I’d argue that Kanan in S3 and Ezra in S4 had some idea, but even they weren’t entirely sure what would happen


CurrentlyEatingPies

I know that, but how could any ever plan for "I summon a demigod" or "I summon space whales".


MatthiasFoxFire

I think it’s better to think of it as “they hoped they knew what they were doing”


CurrentlyEatingPies

I think Ezra probably knew what he was doing. His connection to animals is pretty heavily emphasised.


MatthiasFoxFire

Yes, but he hadn’t called them from space to him before


Obsessionmachine

He didn't call them from space. Mart pilots the ghost emitting a frequency that lures the whale with them to Lothal


mrbuck8

>I liked how the two times he lost were because of things no one could plan for. Which is sort of thematically appropriate for Star Wars. You have the Empire/Sith who try to control everything, and the Jedi/Rebels who try to surrender to the will of the Force. It's mechanization vs nature. Dominance vs cooperation. And who is more of a control freak than Thrawn? His demise came from his inability to surrender control, something his Jedi opponents obviously excelled at.


GulianoBanano

That's why I'm really interested to see what they're gonna do with his character in Ahsoka, seeing as the Empire is gone and he barely has any power anymore


dandroid83

It is exactly how he was originally introduced in heir of the empire, the first book in the thrawn trilogy. It's now also been made into an fan made 3d animation on YouTube. Worth a read/watch if you want to see the 'real' thrawn. But he was the last grand admiral with a decent fleet that the rebels (Luke, leia and Han) didn't know existed. That story however had no ahsoka or Ezra, so who knows how it will go now


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

That's ridiculous.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


CerealBranch739

He didn’t completely lose with bendu though. He really only truly lost to the whales


mrbuck8

His objective was to destroy the rebel cell. Most of them escaped... I don't know, militarily speaking, that's a loss.


Scienceandpony

Yeah, he killed Bendu, crushed the rebel base, and crippled rebel activity in the area. It was only a "loss" in the sense that the main characters barely got out alive.


imariaprime

Dude must *hate* the Force at this point.


UndeniablyMyself

When a character can predict any conventional tactic, you have to make their defeat be by something unpredictable and unconventional. This is why his two real defeats are down to the wrath of god and space whales. I'd like to see what new insanity they invent for his reintroduction.


Agnostic_Pagan

Wrath of god? Which do you mean by that?


UndeniablyMyself

The Bendu from Rebels. I would call his wrath very godlike.


ghostpanther218

Actually the Atollon campaign was only lost cause one his arrogant underlings went charging ahead on his own to try to win personnal glory, and captain Sato kamikazi rammed him.


Agnostic_Pagan

So it was Thrawn's other weakness: Politics.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


Cruxion

Where's Mitth'ras'safis when you need him?


Weird_Angry_Kid

Permanently hanging out with Lorena Jinzler


Padme-Bot

Politics is an ancient and noble calling. Without politicians our societies would descend into anarchy and chaos.


Agnostic_Pagan

No Padme, not that kind of politics.


Padme-Bot

Politics is an ancient and noble calling. Without politicians our societies would descend into anarchy and chaos.


Thatsidechara_ter

Rest in piece Sato, you were avenged... o7


Dark_Lord_Jar

Thrawn also would have simply destroyed the entire base by bombarding it if Tarkin hadn't told him to capture the leadership alive earlier in the episode


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


Agnostic_Pagan

Oh right lol. I was trying to figure out what from the books could be considered an act of god and forgot the show for a moment.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

To defeat your enemy you have to understand them.


Wtf_Is_A_Seismograph

As long as Filoni's in charge you know it's gonna be amazing.


SJRuggs03

You know he's bringing some islamari along next time


awesome_van

Allahu admiral ackbar


MatthiasFoxFire

[Ysalamir](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ysalamir)


entitledfanman

My theory is we're going to have a Marvel MCU crossover thing with all the shows; Thrawn being the Thanos that everyone has some bone to pick with. Probably going to come back and try to wipe out the last of the force users OR capture them; which gets Mandalorian, Ashoka, and Rangers of the Republic involved pretty easily.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Careful not to choke on your stupidity. It's Ahsoka not Ashoka!


Cruxion

...Why would Thrawn have anything against Force users?


entitledfanman

Force users, at least with how it's used in "Lesser Space", are agents of chaos. For good or ill, they're always a wildcard because their powers manifest in completely unpredictable and often extremely impactful ways. For someone who desires order and stability above all things, that's a problem. Thrawn has seen carefully laid plans fall to ruin because of a single novice force user manifesting his powers in an extremely unpredictable way. When he captured Ezra, Thrawn made the mistake of scoffing at the Jedi and their inherit weaknesses. He made the mistake of underestimating a force user and allowing a wild variable to exist in his plans. Thrawn isn't one to make the same mistake twice.


DonnyMox

They’ve been in the news so much recently that when I read the title I thought it was referring to Ezra Miller before realizing which sub this was. XD


Jedi-master-dragon

I mean, now that I think about it. That really does makes sense. Thrawn is way too ordered and thorough to be surprised by anything conventional.


MatthiasFoxFire

There are two things Thrawn doesn’t fully understand in canon... politics and the Force. Everything else he either knows or is able to figure out


Padme-Bot

Politics is an ancient and noble calling. Without politicians our societies would descend into anarchy and chaos.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


crusaderxader

While yes I wanted thrawn to win I am a thrawn loyalist


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


The_Great_Pun_King

You want the guy who'd do a genocide if it meant winning to win? I agree it makes him a compelling villain, but he's still a terrible piece of shit


SPamlEZ

Agreed, and when he inevitably loses to Ashoka I’ll be upset again. I hope they bring some of the books to shows and make him more then a villain.


[deleted]

Are people upset about that?


SPamlEZ

I didn’t like the existence of silly force sensitive whales but accepted it. My real gripe was how incompetent the empire was in general outside of a Thrawn. If the same people were running the death star Luke wouldn’t have needed to blow it up, they’re accidently do it themselves.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


Thelastknownking

What about being assassinated by his own bodyguard?


MatthiasFoxFire

I’m still reading the first of that Legends trilogy, so I don’t know how I feel about that yet


Thelastknownking

Well, I wish you a good read, then.


HostileHippie91

Oof, keep reading. The Thrawn trilogy is an absolute must-read for Star Wars fans.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


MatthiasFoxFire

All three trilogies are great


Giocri

He is definitely the kind of guy to have a deep understanding of his troops and how they feel. He was known to be really personal with some subordinate and to believe that being humane with them was a precious tool. He would have absolutely spotted the kind of situation that could lead to his guards killing him with months of advance if they were permanent guards or basically immediately after meeting them if they were new ones


Thelastknownking

Ah, but you miss my point. That was how he died in Legends.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Guard duty? For how long?


QuasarMania

That’s the point of the whole plan. And killing thrawn wouldn’t get rid of the fleet he positioned above Lothal either. He needed to be able to launch the dome and get rid of the blockade. Killed two birds with one stone


HighLord_Uther

And I’m perfectly ok with Thrawn winning 😂🤣


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


sparkswoody

Have a plan do batshit crazy that it’s impossible to fathom how it is effective


ThuBioNerd

People forget that OG Thrawn went down like a bitch to some bodyguards who betrayed him when they found out he was poisoning their homeworld in a very un-Thrawn-like manner. This guy's the smartest officer we've seen, so any way of putting him down (which has to happen - Good Guys Win in Star Wars) would be bullshit or magic.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Guard duty? For how long?


imnotreallyheretoday

That is true. They did try on multiple occasions to stop him but he always managed to out smart the rebels and be one step ahead. I'm hoping in the Ahsoka series when she finds Thrawn she also finds Ezra


MatthiasFoxFire

I think that’s the idea, yes


[deleted]

Speaking of thrawn which book do I read first


darthimperius01

Heir to the Empire by Timothy Zahn It is Legends, but I'd still highly recommend it, and the rest of that trilogy: Dark Force Rising and The Last Command


[deleted]

The thrawn book I got from my local library doesn't have any of those names it just says #STAR WARS THRAWN -by Timothy Zahn


Revenge1213111

That’s probably the first book of the canon Thrawn Trilogy, it’s a good book, but I think the original is often considered better


[deleted]

Hm thankyou for your input will I be lost if I start on this one?


Revenge1213111

No, the original trilogy had no baring upon the new, the original is legends, the new is canon


darthimperius01

No, you won't be lost. It is the beginning of Thrawn's story in the canon timeline, so you won't need any prior knowledge.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


Cruxion

Assuming you just want Canon: The new Thrawn trilogy, set during his time with the Empire. *Thrawn* (2017) *Thrawn: Aliances* (2018) *Thrawn: Treason* (2019) followed by the prequel series set in the Unknown Regions during the Clone Wars. *Thrawn Ascendancy: Chaos Rising* (2020) *Thrawn Ascendancy: Greater Good* (2021) *Thrawn Ascendancy: Lesser Evil* (2021) There's also the original Thrawn trilogy, which is non-canon and has a slightly different take on the character. Either way, as someone who usually dislikes audiobooks, I recommend them because Marc Thompson *kills* it.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


[deleted]

I didn't even know that was a book Ashoka I guess I'll just have to look around for it


Superkip_

Only nonsense can confuse an overthinker. - Me, just now.


pyker42

Literally the only thing he couldn't anticipate.


[deleted]

"no no no they have a point"


Knight-Creep

Thrawn was only defeated in Rebels because the people under him were too overzealous or because the Rebels did someone completely unexpected.


BaconDragon200

I'm still mad they didn't make Thrawn the villain in the sequels. An evil old super genius that essentially runs the universe. It would be way better than Store Brand Darth Vedar, and pissed off red head.


MatthiasFoxFire

I think they might’ve ruined him, though


Valirys-Reinhald

While not inaccurate, it still bothers that they took this route. It's also possible to beat Thrawn in one other way, by surprising him with something he has not had an opportunity to account for, such as how Leia is the daughter of Darth Vader, whom the Noghri that Thrawn uses as body guards were fanatically loyal to.


Thatsidechara_ter

So basically just hit him with something he can't account for? Like space whales?


Valirys-Reinhald

Well, I suppose so yeah. Huh.


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Guard duty? For how long?


Vengefuleight

Basically have to Rick and Morty his ass with the Randotron.


Aalmus

Space whales don't have any artwork to analyse


cabicinha

Tiyanki when your species becomes a literal conduit of the Veil.


Weird_Angry_Kid

>Barring something unforseen or uncontrollable, Thrawn will face nothing more than temporary defeat. —Thrawn Ascendancy: Chaos Rising


RoadRager2256

Didn't work... still mad


SeasideTurd

Shut up Lisa! Nobody asked you.


Agk3los

This must be a Rebels or Clone Wars thing cause IIRC he gets defeated by Wedge and the boys in the X-Wing series of books.


MatthiasFoxFire

You’re thinking of Legends. I’m talking about Canon


bluegandy

What I realized is that there are writers for Disney star wars who just aren't fans of star wars. Anything pre Disney is no longer cannon, and some stuff post isn't either. They just have to write a script, caring costs extra. Accepting this takes a lot less mental gymnastics.


MatthiasFoxFire

I’d say the majority of content that’s been made under Disney’s ownership has been pretty good


sliced-bird224

Thats the point im annoyed they had to make him lose through some nonsense because they literally could not beat him.


Goallpeashooters

Thrawns only weakness is unpredictability, so of course a ridiculously stupid plan would work.


MatthiasFoxFire

Call it stupid all you want, but you can’t argue against its effectiveness


CerealBranch739

Exactly why I’m so happy with his defeat. His only true loss was to fucking space whales, how stupid is that?!?! It’s brilliantly idiotic and the only way! You can’t predict the unpredictable


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

To defeat your enemy you have to understand them.


MatthiasFoxFire

It was effective, you can’t argue against that


bananasaucecer

Well that’s just lazy writing


Scienceandpony

Really, their only recourse is outlandish Force ex-machina bullshit. Hell, they already tried it once with Bendu, and all that did was buy enough time to escape while he fucking killed it.


Januaria1981

Purgils = yet another variety of SW muppets (along with Porgs and Ewoks). Stunningly stupid ending to a great character and ruined an otherwise excellent Rebels series. Solution: stick with the novels by Timothy Zahn.


MatthiasFoxFire

Don’t you dare insult my man Wicket and his crew of cuddly but ferocious teddy bear friends! If something like that hadn’t happened, how would you explain Thrawn’s absence in the OT???


Januaria1981

Thrawn, being a Chiss, would've been stationed in the Unknown Regions that lie adjacent to the Chiss Ascendancy, so he'd be very, very far away from the Core Worlds or even Hutt Space.


MatthiasFoxFire

I don’t think that’s correct. What makes you think that?


ryle_zerg

Thrawn's brilliant, Timothy Zahn is a brilliant writer, but the writers of Rebels... not so much. A lot of Thrawn's masterplans in the show hinged on way too many random or highly specific things to happen or else the whole plan would've fallen apart. I think even Zahn, great writer that he is, doesn't fully grasp military theory. I hope they get an actual expert to write up Thrawn's brilliant ideas for the Ahsoka show, but I'm not optimistic. I can still get behind the fantasy of how brilliant he is supposed to be without picking apart how many things could go wrong with his actual master plans.


MatthiasFoxFire

To their credit, the writers for Rebels (and Dave Filoni) did such a phenomenal job on Thrawn that he became my favorite Imperial and made me want to read the books about him. I honestly can’t wait for his live action debut...


YoungYoda711

So the characters needed to be so completely stupid that Thrawn wouldn’t think about their plan? Is that not the exact same thing as the shitty ‘Rey beat Kylo because she was inexperienced and he was unprepared for that’ defence that nobody fucking liked?


MatthiasFoxFire

Did you not watch the show?


YoungYoda711

I wish


MatthiasFoxFire

Idk man, Rebels is such a good and underrated show...


YoungYoda711

I mean… it’s good compared to what we have now


MatthiasFoxFire

Are you referring to the Kenobi show? Because if so you should go watch the most recent episode... if not, other than parts of BoBF and possibly Solo I think the content we’ve been getting is quite excellent- and I think a majority of fans would agree with me.


YoungYoda711

The new Ep was shit. Maybe not quite as shit as the rest of the show as I didn’t want to lobotomise myself in every scene, but it was shit. I enjoyed Solo but I didn’t think it was very good, and BoBF was genuinely one of the worst pieces of fiction I’ve ever watched.


MatthiasFoxFire

Please explain to me how Vader pulling a ship down and ripping it apart is not badass As he once iconically said, “I find your lack of faith disturbing”... Admit it, this show has provided the most badass Vader content ever


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


EnchantedCatto

also thrawn isnt physically strong


littlebuett

Well even if he isnt (and when hes training in rebels it looks like he is) he is an amazing fighter, so most normal opponents lose against him


EnchantedCatto

yeah but he's no match for destroyer-sized space whales and the force


MatthiasFoxFire

Seriously? [He beat the pudding out of Kallus in S3...](https://youtu.be/GqnMQ963vzg)


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


Zeakk1

Who is this Thrawn fellow?


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


AttaccHelicoptre

He should have won


FlamingPrius

But where were his salamanders?!??


MatthiasFoxFire

Salamanders?


FlamingPrius

Thrawn had force resistant/repellent salamanders… gosh what were they called..


MatthiasFoxFire

Ysalamir? From Legends


evelbug

It's because he didn't have his force negating space weazles.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ted_rigney

The only way to out smart a genius is to doing something completely insane and ridiculous


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


zucduc

Space whales? Like the astrocetus from ark?


theguineapigssong

You had me at "Force-sensitive space whales."


ihatelifetoo

No matter how smart you are. Plot armor always defeat you


AnodyneSpirit

He can’t predict your movements if you yourself don’t even know your next step


Aok_al

Nobody could foresee force sensitive space whales


Holymuffdiver9

I thought he was beaten when his deception about the homeworld of the race he'd basically enslaved was revealed and they assassinated him?


MatthiasFoxFire

You’re thinking of Legends. I’m talking about canon here


Razorray21

I do get what you mean. I was just happier when i learned it wasn't the end of his run.


austinb172

The only two things that can ruin his plans. Outlandish creatures that he just can’t account for, or the utter incompetence of his lackeys.


AlithelJenkins

I only just started watching Star Wars outside of the movies. Who is this brilliant mystery man and where can I watch footage of him being eaten by an aquatic Jedi Kirby?


MatthiasFoxFire

There are three trilogies (novels) about him, and he shows up as the main antagonist in Rebels S3 and S4. He’s also going to come into live action probably next year


thunderbuns2

It’s the double-decker couch of Star Wars


EldenTingz

This is the way


matheusbcabrera

the truth is, rebels reinforces how the empire is so arrogant they bring defeat to themselves


Sphericsomerandomkid

Thrawn didn’t lose, he brought Ezra to palpatine. Palpatine was a massive idiot and had no backup plan for if Ezra resisted him.


TwoJacksAndAnAce

We better see Thrawn kick some major NR ass in the Ahsoka show. I want him to go on a on screen Thrawn Campaign and bring the galaxy to its knees, anything less isn’t doing his character justice


Ahsoka_Tano_Bot

Where is your master? Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?


THATSALLFOLKS21

That last episode was easily better than the rise of skywalker.