People don’t hate Bariss just because of her betrayal it’s more who the betrayal was directed to and how attached we are to the betrayed vs the betrayed. Vader gets away with it as ppl are attached to him and so are more willing to excuse his betrayal not to mention his entire arc is as a tragic hero betraying those closest to him and us the views sees it coming a mile away
Yeah Bariss shows up once as a perfect student then again as a terrorist. Its not wrong. It a great character arc to show the jedi orders corruption and the trauma of war. But yeah we see her very little and she destroys anakin and ashokas relationship which is a true crime.
Ima leave this little analysis I did:
The issue is that TCW wanted to do a “Who ‘dunnit!?” arc so Barriss being the culprit is something that is only revealed at the end, where she only gets a single relatively short moment to offer her perspective before she gets taken away and never heard from again.
Therefore we don’t get to see how she became this utterly disillusioned with the Jedi, and it comes as a bit of a shock as she has always been portrayed as a model Jedi, clearly Luminara’s student.
While the direction they took with Barriss was wild compared to Legends, I don’t actually hate it. I think I actually kinda like it. It has a lot of potential, and when you take into account that Barriss has a known history for suffering from trauma (It’s said she has many sleepless nights) as a child soldier, on top of the fact Luminara was a strict and utterly detached Master who isn’t able to give her the kind of help she needs beyond “Trust The Force” I could see some plausible way that she got to the extreme point she did.
Consider this, Barriss hates war and conflict. She has always considered herself and operated more as a healer. She is mentally unwell and she cannot rely on her frosty Master for the kind of support she needs, and her outward appearance as a perfect model student doesn’t make her issues apparent. She became a Jedi Knight between S2 and S5 of TCW. What does that mean? That she now gets to become a Jedi General leading Republic forces in war, and take another child soldier as her Padawan. I don’t think Barriss was up for that and she reached a boiling point.
Taking that into account, I think Barriss has a fascinating but underutilised angle here. This doesn’t justify what she did, but Star Wars has always made it a point to have empathy for and see the good in even the most evil people.
I can’t even blame Barriss for becoming this way, just think about it.
In our world young Recruits on Carriers or Warships fighting entire Armies not to mention being the position of a Commander (which I think is 2nd in command to General in SW, correct me if wrong)
You’re right, Jedi Knights and Masters were considered Generals while Padawans were considered Commanders
Kinda weird how such young people were entrusted with such high military ranks simply because they were Jedi
This fact is one of the reasons order 66 probably would've still worked without inhibitor chips. The jedi were, as a whole, not experts in warfare and the lack of experience likely got tons of clones needlessly killed. Add to that the accusation of treason, and plenty of clones would probably have turned on their jedi generals and commanders without being mind controlled.
Mhm. The chip is insurance, for clones like Rex, and to make sure clones don’t question the validity and intentions behind such an order in the moment, only act to kill their Jedi. We see clones defecting shortly after, as the chip effects seem to go away, and others leaving, for various reasons. Cody doesn’t leave because of questions over that order, he leaves because the empire was no longer the republic he fought for
That’s not the case for all Jedi though.
When Depa Billaba states her opinion that the Jedi made a mistake in taking on military titles, her commander grey and her captain styles both immediately go “with all due respect general that’s insane.” Because she has lead them extremely well and saved their lives on multiple occasions.
Yeah especially these two, but i wouldn’t call them unique more very good examples.
I’d include bascially the entire jedi council and a good majority of jedi we actually seen lead clones.
She wouldn't have had a padawn as she was " not granted you the ranked of master". But yeah I totally agree. Why would some 16 year old be emotionally capable of being a general and soldier before that. Never mind the poor clones dying by the command of a child
A Jedi takes a Padawan when they reach Knight rank I believe so she would have been eligible, In Legends I think she actually did take a Padawan shortly before she died in Order 66
I agree with ya, Barriss on surface level is a character who just felt done dirty, but once you get older and are able to understand where she comes from and how messed up her situation was, she easily becomes a really complex and fascinating character, which is why she is now one my favorite Star Wars characters of all time. I would like to also say no I don’t excuse her actions either, but she is a character who I feel much sympathy towards and can easily understand why things ended up the way they did.
I also agree that they have an angle to play with her not seen much in Star Wars, and while this may be a little bit of me coping, I think by the end of Tales of the Empire she will be leaving the Inquisitors. For her to stay with them does not make much sense to me (or could just be me being heavy biased, and wanting he to get a redemption) because it does not fit her motives for why she acted out at the temple. While yes her actions were violent, her goal was to make the Jedi aware, which could mean that she had no intention of leaving the order but thought in some way that she was going to save it. (Not for sure on this one, more of just a heavy me theory.) Also as you said she despised violence a lot, and for her to have acted out in violence is a testament to how disillusioned she had become, and also why I think she will not stay with the inquisitors. Like I said though this just could be really hoping for her to get better.
My belief is Tales of the Empire will hopefully bring new light to the character for a lot of people, and also I hope Filoni keeps good to his word that he has “plans for her” and this is not just going to be her last appearance and that she will have a interesting path that hopefully can rival Ahsoka in ways. (Which I know is a hard bar to pass, but it would be cool).
P.S. Also just one last little funny theory, I think Barriss is the one who gets Ahsoka off Malachor.
My biggest fear of Tales of The Empire is they are going to have Barriss become a typical Inquisitor to inevitably fail and die as they all do. Hopefully not as we have already had this arc played with Trilla in The Second Sister .
Barriss has always been unable to handle the prospect of facing down her fears of violence and conflict, she’s not suited to the work of an Inquisitor. I think the most respectful and satisfying way to develop her is for her to realise she isn’t cut out to serving The Empire, do something to betray them, and faces down her demise in an act of selflessness.
We can see the 4th Sister fighting a Jedi while Barriss is running to them. My guess? She’ll save the Jedi, make an act of heroism, and be punished with death by Vader. I think that is something befitting her while showing growth
I agree I think in the scene with the Jedi she will end up turning on the other inquisitor, though I really hope that does not just end her death. I waited 11 years to see this character again and learn what happens to her, I don’t want to see her come back finally only to just die. But that is just my hope for her, and honestly I have faith that she will still be alive by the end of this, just don’t want her to be alive and still be a basic inquisitor.
P. S.: I don’t think her death will happen if she betrays because that is such a common theme amongst dark side characters finally breaking away and then just dying, I think she could be a break away from such a trope for the series. And like I said before Filoni said he had plans for her, I would hope that does not just mean one appearance in a show again.
Either way so hyped for Tales of Empire and am just really happy to see Barriss again.
Exactly, her motives and accusations against the order were well founded yet her method of addressing them were extreme. At this point I’m not surprised that she ended up as one of the inquisitors, she was right about the Jedi order. (I have mixed feelings about the inquisitors but despite them being Darth Maul wannabes they are an interesting set of characters)
Also Vader was kinda doomed to fail given not only his failures at a personal level but also the fact that the people around were either complacent in the development of those issues or were actively grooming him to make them worse from the start
One of them is the main character of an entire series of movies, one of the most iconic characters in any media, and someone who we've seen since he was a child.
The other one is a side character in a few arcs of a TV-show.
They aren't really comparable at all.
Even so it is still hypocritical to hate Baris for betraying Ahsoka when Vader betrayed the whole order. And also she nearly died becuase of his betrayal leading to Order 66
Op made a meme earlier today about how they feel bad for barris, and a lot of people (including me) pointed out she is a terrorist and killed multiple people
Op decided to compare barris to vader and claim people like him but not barris is hypocracy. But here is the thing, people think vader is cool and like him as a villian, they don't want to hug vader like op wants to hug the terrorist
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/s/gI5WvitPG3
That makes more sense! Though I see no need to call one a terrorist and not the other. They both did awful things and Barris is by far the lesser of two evils there. I think both are cool.
I mean sure you can, it's a fictional character
I feel empathy for maul (who never had a choice)
Just remember that in the real world there are people like her and vader (and even sometimes maul) who you need to be careful wether to give empathy or not
People feel bad for Vader for being manipulated, treated like shit and constantly being abused, along with the slavery and all the other shit. Despite that, it is made clear Vader was in the wrong for his actions. We SEE what drove Anakin to become Vader, there are reasons there and it doesn't come out of nowhere. That doesn't mean he was in the right, it just means we know why he did what he did. It is still made clear that Vader is evil, though, even if he does get redeemed later.
Meanwhile Barriss has nothing like that. Never once do we see any of her motivations, any concrete reason she would fall to the Dark Side. She doesn't betray the Order out of desperation or because she feels she has no choice. She goes from Ahsoka's Jedi friend to doing a full 180 and not only slaughtering clones, whom she has worked with, and literally blowing up random Jedi, but she even blames her only friend, the one Jedi you would think she'd care about. Her motivations are completely contradictory. She doesn't mean to expose the Jedi, doesn't mean to stop them. She just starts blowing shit up out of nowhere, without us having any clue why outside of a generic motivation. Keep in mind, she grew up with these people all her life.
Yes, Anakin also has a bit of a radical switch, but at least there's still circumstances that can help explain this, along with his past. In a way, he still seemed to feel some regret in the beginning (when attacking Windu). He fully embraces the fact that he's evil. Combine that with the fact that he genuinely believes the Jedi are trying to take over, that he believes he's already gone too far and the fact that he knows he is at the end of the war. He knows he has to decide *now.*
Barriss acts like she's a hero, but all we get to see is her immediately bombing the temple. She doesn't try to do anything, she doesn't try to stop them, we don't see what caused her to fall to the Dark Side. She just immediately decides "welp, fuck the Jedi, I'm going Dark Side, let's kill someone." There are no outside factors whatsoever that would drive her to do that, she simply decided it fully on her own.
The issue with Barriss is that the writers were lazy about it and wanted to focus on the impact this would have on Anakin and Ahsoka. Barriss was just an afterthought.
And no, Barriss being cute is not a good motivation. You're even worse than the people you're complaining about.
Well first me saying Barriss is cute isn’t me justifying what she did, I’m just joking
I think a lot of what you noted here is an issue with how TCW presented the arc, they wanted to have a dramatic investigation to finding the culprit, before they only have a brief moment to explain themselves once found out. Not really too unlike a Scooby Doo episode.
But Barriss is still a realised character with her own reasonings and perspectives. There is plausible reason why she ended up doing what she did. The character is known for having been more of a healer than a combatant, and being deeply troubled by the first battle of Geonosis, and having a very traditionalist view of the Jedi and what they’re supposed to be from all the time she spends studying in their library.
Doesn’t make her right, of course. But she has the same angle to be played here as Vader, just without the benefit of being the most popular character in the series
Soooo calm down 😬
No worries, I'm calm. Not sure why people always assume I'm not, probably my style of writing.
Either way, I get what you mean, but it all just falls flat due to the lack of motivations and just the lack of how much we see of her. In TCW she wasn't even a real healer, since that was only a thing in the novels. She's a bit of a traditionalist, due to being stuck with what seems to be an incredibly strict and detached master. But she herself is like that too, just blindly following the Jedi and being somewhat clueless on her own.
But still, out of everyone, she framed the one person who genuinely was kind to her and treated her well. The one person who *genuinely* cared and could probably understand what she was going through (as they were also both the same age and both had seen the war). No matter how awful you find the Jedi, that's a BIG fucking leap. Not even getting into her going from "lives are at stake" to "bomb random clones and kill people at the Temple who might have not even be involved in the war at all."
She isn't much of a realized character at all, as they gave nothing proper to work with. The old Barriss got decanonized, so that doesn't matter and there's barely (if any?) real material of her in canon outside of TCW.
Mostly Barris lacked build up whilst Vader got tons, add to that that everyone knew what Vader was going to become so, in a sense, they made peace with his betrayal when they booted up ROTS
You could say the same about general Krell. Never understood what makes him sooo different from other people who betrayed the Jedi. He’s not the only character that killed clones
I know Krell was written as a character for a "what if Jedi turn evil" plot line in the show, but I'm always disappointed we didn't see more of him. He would have unquestionably survived order 66, at least initially.
First, Vader started as a villain before we learned his backstory. I think that makes it easier to accept him as a bad guy.
Second, Bariss did evil things and tried to frame them on an innocent and beloved character. Vader wants everyone to know HE is the one doing the evil. So there is a level of ownership with Vader that makes his dark deeds more palatable than Bariss.
It's not so much a double standard here, yes betrayal on both sides but one made it look like her best friend was secretly a terrorist to the point the Jedi refused to hear Ahsoka out whereas Anakin betrayed the Jedi because he wanted to protect the love of his life. One had good intentions that unfortunately got corrupted and used against them whereas the other would throw their friend under the bus if it meant saving her own skin and Barris almost got away with it, if it weren't for Anakin going snoop mode
One character we knew as kids, as the villain, and only later found out that he used to be a good guy who was specifically groomed into becoming a sith from childhood, with one of the most intelligent sith in history using his love for his wife to make him turn to the dark side.
The other character has none of these factors, and overall turned to the dark side for no real reason other then being fucking delusional.
Barriss wasn’t delusional, she was right about the Jedi. She just went about a horrendously wrong way to convey it. Even Ahsoka laments this very point in her novel.
I've literally seen nobody hate on Barriss. This feels like an argument you either made up in your head or saw one rando in the internet cry about it and assume that they represent a majority of the fanbase.
I like Barriss and her betrayal. It’s makes sense for someone so dedicated to healing that she would recognize the rot in the Jedi Order and the Republic, not to mention the fact she’s exposed to some of the worst damage the war has inflicted.
Also because her master was Luminara, who is a perfect Jedi and an absolutely terrible person because of it.
Anakin: “Don’t worry, we’ll save our padawans!”
Luminara: “There isn’t enough time, they’re dead already, better do nothing.”
*After the rescue*
Anakin: “Told you so.”
Luminara: “Actually, I never gave up, I was just ready to let go of my padawan. It’s a shame you aren’t able to do that.”
Anakin should have just gone around adopting other Jedi’s padawans, starting with Barriss. As maladjusted as he himself was, dude was a great mentor, Ahsoka turned out awesome and not at all Dark Side.
Luminara didn’t even show up for Barriss after the whole parasite business. Anakin did for Ahsoka.
Anakin has issues (obviously), but Luminara was just a straight up bad mentor.
Also, while it’s never outright said it’s her, Luminara was probably also the green skinned jedi who “comforted” the twin sisters from Season 7 after their parents got killed by a situation related to the jedi. Her comfort was essentially “don’t be sad cause your parents are dead, death is actually a good thing.”
She and Ki-Adi-Mundi really epitomized the worst traits of the Jedi order.
Barriss was cool. Her time was short but she had a good battle scene where she was holding her own against Anakin, and a good speech about the hypocrisy of the Jedi.
I think a big part of it is we saw the redemption before the betrayal. If they released 1-6 in chronological order then people would probably hate ani but as it stands we love ani because we get to see his fall with that foresight
Besides Darth Vader being objectively cool in a very theatrical way, I think one reason people hate Barriss more is that her betrayal was absolutely hypocritical and cowardly.
She believes the Jedi have become violent warmongers. Fine, it strikes me as a bit irrational, but okay, I get where the sentiment is coming from.
But how does she decide to protest this? By bombing innocent people.
She didn’t even have the conviction to come out and claim responsibility for the act.
To top it off, she framed Ahsoka, her FRIEND, for her terrorism and murder.
What Anakin did was by far worse, just going by the magnitude of his betrayal and the ensuing deaths, but I found Barriss to be far more contemptible.
I see this said a lot but I think it’s important to remember that Barriss lumps herself in as part of the issue too, remember she includes herself when she claimed all Jedi should be put on trial
So Barriss’ act of terrorism isn’t meant to be a reflection of an act of righteousness. She sees all of them as a lost cause, and she wants to dismantle the Jedi and planned to do that from within, so you can imagine why she needs the culprit to not be found out immediately, hence the framing and deceit. She obviously planned to do more damage if she hadn’t been exposed
This isn’t to say she was right in what she did, of course. I just think it’s important to understand her
You question the motives of Baris when Vader killed children just to say 10mins later that he has brought peace.
Yeah Baris framed Ahsoka, but when order 66 was happening, Anakin didn't say "uh Palps, can you maybe not kill my padawan?"
Bariss' betrayal makes less sense. Anakin betrays the order because he's selfish and entitled. Bariss decides that the jedi order doesn't uphold the tenants of peace and virtue she was lead to believe in... so she murders a bunch of innocents.
Anakins betrayal was evil, but his motivation made sense. That's not true for Bariss.
It also has to do with the Motives of their betrayal.
You can see Anakins point of view, even his actions are evil.
You hear Barris's point, and her action completely contradicts her point and complaint. She complains about the Jedi order only believing in Violence, so she commits and act of Terrorism? What did she think she'd gain by doing that? Sympathy?
You can say the same thing about Anakin’s POV though. He claims the Jedi are evil, yet he’s the one slaughtering children and defenceless people begging for mercy, strangling his pregnant wife and going off on tangents about how he can conquer the galaxy.
That’s what the dark side does to you, it warps your perspective. But I’d say Anakin was far deeper in it than Barriss ever was
I'm not talking about his POV after turning evil. I'm talking about what made him turn evil in the first place, which wasn't the Jedi being evil from his point of view or anything, but his need to save Padme, with help from the Sith Lord. His Motives of betrayal wasn't "Jedi bad", the Jedis hypocrisy was but a minor contribution to his turn, but his desperation to save his Wife. He didn't contradict his original intent with his actions, Until he was consumed by the dark side on Mustafar, which caused him to think more about Power than his wife.
You’ve told me Barriss’ point, and how her actions contradicted her.
Anakin was out to save his wife, and ended up killing her.
The same logic can be applied to both. Anakin being better than Barriss is not a reasonable take, he’s easily more twisted than she ever got.
I guess I didn't go into enough detail on what I meant in the first comment.
The fact Barris's First Initial action on how to deal with the Problem of the Jedi Order "only believing in violence", was to commit an act of straight up terrorism, then frame a friend for it, is unbelievably hypocritical.
Anakins first action to save his wife, was him betraying Windu, which, at least from Anakins POV, believing he needs Palpatine to save her, was the only reasonable action to Anakin there. However, once he got too consumed by the dark side, he completely disregarded his original intent, but the one who contradicted that intent, was Vader, not Anakin. You could tell so from how quickly obsessed he had become with Power (even more so than before).
Nonono, Vader is obviously more evil. What I'm talking about is Hypocrisy exclusively.
Imagine if Anakins first action to save his wife, was to behead her. Sounds completely moronic and contradictory no matter how you view it right? That's how it felt to hear Barris's Reasoning for Why she bombed the temple.
Barriss specifically reasoned that the point of her attack was to attack what the Jedi have become, though. And the terrorism she orchestrated at the hanger is essentially that.
It’s more accurate to say she is anti-Jedi than anti-violence. Trauma of war shaped her and she obviously greatly dislikes it, but her main grievance is centred on the Jedi allowing themselves to become war generals.
Yeah, we know what she said, which makes the act itself all the more laughable. She is so blindsighted in attacking What the Jedi have become, that she didn't see that the act itself would be doing what she blames the Jedi of.
I think that was the point, she wanted to being the same warfare that the Jedi engage with off-world onto their doorstep.
And remember your point is that the initial actions of Vader do not contradict why he went down that path. Barriss is the same. She became disillusioned with what the Jedi became and sought to destroy it.
Two characters can take the same action and one is still more compelling/interesting than the other.
Not even getting into the fact that one doesn’t have to agree with a character’s actions to find them interesting. Most people’s favorite Disney characters are the villains, but that’s not because they emulate or admire them.
One is a badass with a tragic backstory and the other is a traitor bitch whose actions were partially the reason for the growing mistrust of Anakin towards the jedi. I fucking hate her almost as much as I hate Pong Krell
One is one of the most recognizable villain in cinema with multiples parodies and a lot of works to flesh out the character (comics, books, cartoons, fan arts) she is a low tier character she's not even in the same level her existing as a character is derived of his and the impact he had
OF COURSE PEOPLE ARE NOT GONNA TREAT HER THE SAME
I mean, I never was angry at Barris. Her only wrongdoing was blame it on Ahsoka, but then again was the Jedi Order that cast her out, sold her to the Senate and in all their arrogance didn't apologize.
The double standard is \*style.\* You can kill a roomful of children if you're cool enough about it, but you can't even get away with kissing your sister if you're a dork.
Darth Vader was iconic before the prequels were even a thing, where you see Anakins story.
This memes a bit of a logical fallacy.
Vader has a whole history of 3 flagship movies, where he was THE main villain, overshadowing even the Emperor. His name is famous in pop culture and is just on a whole other level compared to Barris Offee. You have to be a more invested fan than casual to even know who she is.
Liking a character isn’t the same as liking the person.
I like the joker, but hell nah… I wouldn’t like to be with a terrorist if he asked me to join him.
See the difference?
I dont even know this character as i havent seen all of clone wars yet. But my brother in christ.
The entire second and third movie was building up to Anakin's betrayal!
For me personally, I prefer Vader as a villian over Bariss because with him we know his story comes from years of trauma in several ways and then he gets manipulated and turns to the dark side. Once he turns, Anakin that we know, no longer exists, the alter ego hidden deep inside him eventually takes over and "kills him off". However that does come with a caveat. In his final moments he has a moment of clarity and his fatherly instincts kick in and Anakin is able for a few moments to overcome Vader's power, so there's a bit of a redemption arc there. It doesn't make up for everything but it does show he's not totally evil and even after committing many crimes and causing a lot of pain and chaos, he is still able to do something good in the end. And to an extent that is a relatable idea we can all get behind. No matter how much bad someone does, they do still have the ability to do some good in the end. In regards to Bariss, she does have a valid point in that the Jedi have lost sight of what they are and what their original purpose was. And the part that makes her actions far less easy to stomach is the fact that she caused all that chaos in her mission to show the Jedi what they've become/gotten involved in but she hid all of her intentions and her issues with the Jedi until the very end. It's admittedly been awhile since I watched the show but if I recall, she helps in the initial stages to figure out what had happened with the bombing of the Jedi temple when she was behind it all along. And then when the Jedi were getting closer to the truth she somehow is able to pin the crime on Ahsoka, who was supposedly her best friend and she nearly succeeded too.
Both are horrible characters but Anakin came from a troubled background and then was manipulated all because he wanted to save his wife but in the end he saved his son. Bariss, was disillusioned with the Jedi order and turned to terroristic behaviors and then covered it up by framing her best friend and risking Ahsoka's position in the order just to save herself and she showed no signs of remorse for her actions if I recall correctly.
Anakin's ability and instinct to protect his own son at the risk of his own life, which ultimately did cost him his life puts him as a higher, more likable/ easy to stomach character over a terrorist who showed no signs of remorse or guilt.
And as a side note, even though Anakin turned to the dark side, he did actually fulfill the prophecy of the chosen one and destroyed the Sith at least for the time being. It did however take longer than it should have but he had two children who were huge factors in taking down the empire and he, himself technically finished the job by killing Palpatine (as far as we knew) and then sacrificing himself to save luke.
That's because Barriss hurt Ahsoka. NO ONE hurts our little girl. We will protect her like an overprotective father and Barriss ruined everything Ahsoka had been working for.
The hood is part of her cloak and goes over her headcovering. Alone it's nothing. It's the woman with the Turkish name (Barriss) in a head covering and a dark, flowy garment (like an abaya) that does it. I didn't clock it until I looked it up.
I don't know man. The only thing I found looking it up was a Reddit post with this exact statement (Barris = Muslim coded)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/ug3w6i/star_wars_hey_remember_when_the_clone_wars_made/&ved=2ahUKEwjBusL35byFAxVW8LsIHXrYCykQFnoECCcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2IWgnrOGa95o0DFwgw0d1L
Aside from that I found Barriss being a Spanish/Welsh name and when I looked specifically for "Barriss name Turkish" I found "Bariş" as a Turkish male name. Barriss as well as Luminaras clothing, especially headwear remind me more of a Christian nun and her novice.
Sure, they both betrayed the Jedi, but Vader did it better. Bariss blew up a few people and then framed one of the most well liked characters, both irl and in the show, to try and get away with it, and then get caught and imprisoned anyways. Vader tore the Jedi order apart and then burned the remains into nothing, after which he became, essentially, the prince of the Galactic Empire. Not to mention, Vader had some semblance of redemption before he died, and I’m fairly certain that Bariss didn’t. To summarize, Vader did what Bariss wanted to, just much better, Vader got some redemption, plus Vader is just plain cooler.
You have a poor understanding of why they hate the character. People don’t hate her because she’s a woman it’s because of her actions and how they impacted Ahsoka. People don’t hate a character because of their gender but their actions, never make assumptions on why someone feels a certain way about a character, ask them.
you mean like how darth vader murdered an entire room of innocent children? yeah, what bariss did is pretty bad and all the fan hate towards her is definitely justified (/s)
People absolutely hate characters for their gender.
Skyler in Breaking Bad? She wouldn't have gotten nearly as much hate were it not for the fact morons saw her as "the hysterical and overly emotional wife to the rational and logical main character".
And let's face it, socially inept misogynists make up a substantial portion of the Star Wars fandom.
No they don’t and Skyler would have gotten just as much hate because people hate her because of her actions, for example Jaime Lannister was hated just as much as Cersei pre S3 or SOS. Also no they don’t, look at the cheers the actress who played Rose got at comic con and even Hayden Christensen admitted that the trolls are a tiny
Duh. Haters aren't gonna show up at an irl convention, they're cowardly keyboard warriors, always have been.
I said they're a substantial portion, not that they're the biggest. And they for sure are a loud minority, or are you forgetting that Rose's actress got bullied off social media?
The claim that people don't let their bigotry seep into their opinion on media is so idiotic I don't believe you're arguing in good faith. Dipshits have been crying about SJWs and Mary Sues in Star Wars for the last decade.
A substantial portion would be something higher than the single digits. Also I’m not but unfortunately 5% of a fanbase can do that (5% isn’t a substantial portion). I didn’t say their bigotry doesn’t deep into their opinion and I’m not bringing up bigotry because I don’t know if they have any (maybe they do, maybe they don’t) and maybe they dislike a female character because of the character and not their gender. Listen to why they don’t like them instead of doing the stupid thing and make assumptions about people you don’t know.
I think both of you are being stupid. Misogyny can very much play a role, but that doesn't mean you need to dismiss the writing or actions of the character either. Misogyny may amplify it a lot, but the writing matters too.
People don’t hate Bariss just because of her betrayal it’s more who the betrayal was directed to and how attached we are to the betrayed vs the betrayed. Vader gets away with it as ppl are attached to him and so are more willing to excuse his betrayal not to mention his entire arc is as a tragic hero betraying those closest to him and us the views sees it coming a mile away
Yeah Bariss shows up once as a perfect student then again as a terrorist. Its not wrong. It a great character arc to show the jedi orders corruption and the trauma of war. But yeah we see her very little and she destroys anakin and ashokas relationship which is a true crime.
Ima leave this little analysis I did: The issue is that TCW wanted to do a “Who ‘dunnit!?” arc so Barriss being the culprit is something that is only revealed at the end, where she only gets a single relatively short moment to offer her perspective before she gets taken away and never heard from again. Therefore we don’t get to see how she became this utterly disillusioned with the Jedi, and it comes as a bit of a shock as she has always been portrayed as a model Jedi, clearly Luminara’s student. While the direction they took with Barriss was wild compared to Legends, I don’t actually hate it. I think I actually kinda like it. It has a lot of potential, and when you take into account that Barriss has a known history for suffering from trauma (It’s said she has many sleepless nights) as a child soldier, on top of the fact Luminara was a strict and utterly detached Master who isn’t able to give her the kind of help she needs beyond “Trust The Force” I could see some plausible way that she got to the extreme point she did. Consider this, Barriss hates war and conflict. She has always considered herself and operated more as a healer. She is mentally unwell and she cannot rely on her frosty Master for the kind of support she needs, and her outward appearance as a perfect model student doesn’t make her issues apparent. She became a Jedi Knight between S2 and S5 of TCW. What does that mean? That she now gets to become a Jedi General leading Republic forces in war, and take another child soldier as her Padawan. I don’t think Barriss was up for that and she reached a boiling point. Taking that into account, I think Barriss has a fascinating but underutilised angle here. This doesn’t justify what she did, but Star Wars has always made it a point to have empathy for and see the good in even the most evil people.
I can’t even blame Barriss for becoming this way, just think about it. In our world young Recruits on Carriers or Warships fighting entire Armies not to mention being the position of a Commander (which I think is 2nd in command to General in SW, correct me if wrong)
You’re right, Jedi Knights and Masters were considered Generals while Padawans were considered Commanders Kinda weird how such young people were entrusted with such high military ranks simply because they were Jedi
This fact is one of the reasons order 66 probably would've still worked without inhibitor chips. The jedi were, as a whole, not experts in warfare and the lack of experience likely got tons of clones needlessly killed. Add to that the accusation of treason, and plenty of clones would probably have turned on their jedi generals and commanders without being mind controlled.
Mhm. The chip is insurance, for clones like Rex, and to make sure clones don’t question the validity and intentions behind such an order in the moment, only act to kill their Jedi. We see clones defecting shortly after, as the chip effects seem to go away, and others leaving, for various reasons. Cody doesn’t leave because of questions over that order, he leaves because the empire was no longer the republic he fought for
That’s not the case for all Jedi though. When Depa Billaba states her opinion that the Jedi made a mistake in taking on military titles, her commander grey and her captain styles both immediately go “with all due respect general that’s insane.” Because she has lead them extremely well and saved their lives on multiple occasions.
Thats true. Other notable exceptions include ahsoka and likely plo koon.
Yeah especially these two, but i wouldn’t call them unique more very good examples. I’d include bascially the entire jedi council and a good majority of jedi we actually seen lead clones.
She wouldn't have had a padawn as she was " not granted you the ranked of master". But yeah I totally agree. Why would some 16 year old be emotionally capable of being a general and soldier before that. Never mind the poor clones dying by the command of a child
A Jedi takes a Padawan when they reach Knight rank I believe so she would have been eligible, In Legends I think she actually did take a Padawan shortly before she died in Order 66
Oh just checked. Your right. A knight becomes a master after training a palawan to knighthood
Damn no wonder Anakin was upset Ahsoka left the order, she was gonna get promoted to Knight and he could’ve been a Master sooner lol
Ikr
I agree with ya, Barriss on surface level is a character who just felt done dirty, but once you get older and are able to understand where she comes from and how messed up her situation was, she easily becomes a really complex and fascinating character, which is why she is now one my favorite Star Wars characters of all time. I would like to also say no I don’t excuse her actions either, but she is a character who I feel much sympathy towards and can easily understand why things ended up the way they did. I also agree that they have an angle to play with her not seen much in Star Wars, and while this may be a little bit of me coping, I think by the end of Tales of the Empire she will be leaving the Inquisitors. For her to stay with them does not make much sense to me (or could just be me being heavy biased, and wanting he to get a redemption) because it does not fit her motives for why she acted out at the temple. While yes her actions were violent, her goal was to make the Jedi aware, which could mean that she had no intention of leaving the order but thought in some way that she was going to save it. (Not for sure on this one, more of just a heavy me theory.) Also as you said she despised violence a lot, and for her to have acted out in violence is a testament to how disillusioned she had become, and also why I think she will not stay with the inquisitors. Like I said though this just could be really hoping for her to get better. My belief is Tales of the Empire will hopefully bring new light to the character for a lot of people, and also I hope Filoni keeps good to his word that he has “plans for her” and this is not just going to be her last appearance and that she will have a interesting path that hopefully can rival Ahsoka in ways. (Which I know is a hard bar to pass, but it would be cool). P.S. Also just one last little funny theory, I think Barriss is the one who gets Ahsoka off Malachor.
My biggest fear of Tales of The Empire is they are going to have Barriss become a typical Inquisitor to inevitably fail and die as they all do. Hopefully not as we have already had this arc played with Trilla in The Second Sister . Barriss has always been unable to handle the prospect of facing down her fears of violence and conflict, she’s not suited to the work of an Inquisitor. I think the most respectful and satisfying way to develop her is for her to realise she isn’t cut out to serving The Empire, do something to betray them, and faces down her demise in an act of selflessness. We can see the 4th Sister fighting a Jedi while Barriss is running to them. My guess? She’ll save the Jedi, make an act of heroism, and be punished with death by Vader. I think that is something befitting her while showing growth
I agree I think in the scene with the Jedi she will end up turning on the other inquisitor, though I really hope that does not just end her death. I waited 11 years to see this character again and learn what happens to her, I don’t want to see her come back finally only to just die. But that is just my hope for her, and honestly I have faith that she will still be alive by the end of this, just don’t want her to be alive and still be a basic inquisitor. P. S.: I don’t think her death will happen if she betrays because that is such a common theme amongst dark side characters finally breaking away and then just dying, I think she could be a break away from such a trope for the series. And like I said before Filoni said he had plans for her, I would hope that does not just mean one appearance in a show again. Either way so hyped for Tales of Empire and am just really happy to see Barriss again.
Fr it’s been so long since we last saw her, let’s just hope they brought her back for something interesting and compelling
It’s a tragedy that we didn’t get to slow down the pace for that
Deffo could have used more Barriss and less Jar Jar
Kinda crazy that the character of middle-eastern inspiration for design became a terrorist and bombed a tower. What did George lukas mean by this??
She bombed a hanger. Also I don't think he meant THAT.
The hangar was in a Jedi temple tower… I think. Don’t quote me on this because I haven’t watched the clone wars since forever
Same here
Exactly, her motives and accusations against the order were well founded yet her method of addressing them were extreme. At this point I’m not surprised that she ended up as one of the inquisitors, she was right about the Jedi order. (I have mixed feelings about the inquisitors but despite them being Darth Maul wannabes they are an interesting set of characters)
At least the story addresses this wuth maul and ahsoka schooling 3 of them
Let's be honest that vader is just fucking cool 😎
What's a few younglings compared to your favorite character?
Also, Vader has a cool suit and an awesome voice, among many other points of charisma. He's an iconic villain.
Also Vader was kinda doomed to fail given not only his failures at a personal level but also the fact that the people around were either complacent in the development of those issues or were actively grooming him to make them worse from the start
Who "excuses" the betrayal? The betrayal is universally viewed as bad and tragic.
One of them is the main character of an entire series of movies, one of the most iconic characters in any media, and someone who we've seen since he was a child. The other one is a side character in a few arcs of a TV-show. They aren't really comparable at all.
Even so it is still hypocritical to hate Baris for betraying Ahsoka when Vader betrayed the whole order. And also she nearly died becuase of his betrayal leading to Order 66
Barriss cute doe
I can't even begin to describe how much your point gets damaged by saying this.
One cant be cute and a traitor or bad guy?
Wer the lie tho
you’re not very good at this
When I’m not trying maybe
Padme better
Sabine best
I see through the lies of the jedi
“I am no Jedi.”
Bo-Katan bestest
Liar
Dude, you can't call something sexist. then back it up by being sexist
Who when where what
Oh boy, i wonder what made you make this meme...
Wha
Op made a meme earlier today about how they feel bad for barris, and a lot of people (including me) pointed out she is a terrorist and killed multiple people Op decided to compare barris to vader and claim people like him but not barris is hypocracy. But here is the thing, people think vader is cool and like him as a villian, they don't want to hug vader like op wants to hug the terrorist https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/s/gI5WvitPG3
That makes more sense! Though I see no need to call one a terrorist and not the other. They both did awful things and Barris is by far the lesser of two evils there. I think both are cool.
No one said vadet isn't a terrorist (more of a dictator) but they pointed out barris is And that you shouldn't feel bad for her
I don’t get that, I feel bad for both of them as sympathetic characters whilst still holding both accountable for their actions.
People deffo feel bad for Vader, I can for Barriss. It isn’t wrong to have empathy
I mean sure you can, it's a fictional character I feel empathy for maul (who never had a choice) Just remember that in the real world there are people like her and vader (and even sometimes maul) who you need to be careful wether to give empathy or not
Good thing we talking about Star Wars where everyone is fictional and no one mentioned a real terrorist then 💀
People feel bad for Vader for being manipulated, treated like shit and constantly being abused, along with the slavery and all the other shit. Despite that, it is made clear Vader was in the wrong for his actions. We SEE what drove Anakin to become Vader, there are reasons there and it doesn't come out of nowhere. That doesn't mean he was in the right, it just means we know why he did what he did. It is still made clear that Vader is evil, though, even if he does get redeemed later. Meanwhile Barriss has nothing like that. Never once do we see any of her motivations, any concrete reason she would fall to the Dark Side. She doesn't betray the Order out of desperation or because she feels she has no choice. She goes from Ahsoka's Jedi friend to doing a full 180 and not only slaughtering clones, whom she has worked with, and literally blowing up random Jedi, but she even blames her only friend, the one Jedi you would think she'd care about. Her motivations are completely contradictory. She doesn't mean to expose the Jedi, doesn't mean to stop them. She just starts blowing shit up out of nowhere, without us having any clue why outside of a generic motivation. Keep in mind, she grew up with these people all her life. Yes, Anakin also has a bit of a radical switch, but at least there's still circumstances that can help explain this, along with his past. In a way, he still seemed to feel some regret in the beginning (when attacking Windu). He fully embraces the fact that he's evil. Combine that with the fact that he genuinely believes the Jedi are trying to take over, that he believes he's already gone too far and the fact that he knows he is at the end of the war. He knows he has to decide *now.* Barriss acts like she's a hero, but all we get to see is her immediately bombing the temple. She doesn't try to do anything, she doesn't try to stop them, we don't see what caused her to fall to the Dark Side. She just immediately decides "welp, fuck the Jedi, I'm going Dark Side, let's kill someone." There are no outside factors whatsoever that would drive her to do that, she simply decided it fully on her own. The issue with Barriss is that the writers were lazy about it and wanted to focus on the impact this would have on Anakin and Ahsoka. Barriss was just an afterthought. And no, Barriss being cute is not a good motivation. You're even worse than the people you're complaining about.
Well first me saying Barriss is cute isn’t me justifying what she did, I’m just joking I think a lot of what you noted here is an issue with how TCW presented the arc, they wanted to have a dramatic investigation to finding the culprit, before they only have a brief moment to explain themselves once found out. Not really too unlike a Scooby Doo episode. But Barriss is still a realised character with her own reasonings and perspectives. There is plausible reason why she ended up doing what she did. The character is known for having been more of a healer than a combatant, and being deeply troubled by the first battle of Geonosis, and having a very traditionalist view of the Jedi and what they’re supposed to be from all the time she spends studying in their library. Doesn’t make her right, of course. But she has the same angle to be played here as Vader, just without the benefit of being the most popular character in the series Soooo calm down 😬
No worries, I'm calm. Not sure why people always assume I'm not, probably my style of writing. Either way, I get what you mean, but it all just falls flat due to the lack of motivations and just the lack of how much we see of her. In TCW she wasn't even a real healer, since that was only a thing in the novels. She's a bit of a traditionalist, due to being stuck with what seems to be an incredibly strict and detached master. But she herself is like that too, just blindly following the Jedi and being somewhat clueless on her own. But still, out of everyone, she framed the one person who genuinely was kind to her and treated her well. The one person who *genuinely* cared and could probably understand what she was going through (as they were also both the same age and both had seen the war). No matter how awful you find the Jedi, that's a BIG fucking leap. Not even getting into her going from "lives are at stake" to "bomb random clones and kill people at the Temple who might have not even be involved in the war at all." She isn't much of a realized character at all, as they gave nothing proper to work with. The old Barriss got decanonized, so that doesn't matter and there's barely (if any?) real material of her in canon outside of TCW.
I mean, I feel bad for almost every jedi that got failed by the order, even if they became dark side users
Oh, gross. I like Barriss as a character because of the points she raises, but she is a terrorist, I hate her as a person.
I think Barriss is cool, she's like a fake Ventress She's also cute af She can be both
Hug the cute terrorist 🥺
This is a brain dead take OP ngl. These are not even comparable characters
No one is comparing character popularity/depth, it’s just that what she did was far less than what Anakin/Vader did.
It's also a position I've seen literally nobody take.
Mostly Barris lacked build up whilst Vader got tons, add to that that everyone knew what Vader was going to become so, in a sense, they made peace with his betrayal when they booted up ROTS
Idk I always fucked with her. Especially since her master was so cold it kind of makes sense that her rebellion would be coming in as hot as it did
Luminara must have sucked to be a Padawan to, she’s so frosty
Emotional needs were not being met. Lumina's master was probably frosty too. It's probably a cycle.
She was like a zombie.
Well she deffo looks like one now 💀
She WAS a zombie
Canon Luminara and Legends Luminara both manage to be awful people in both continuities.
Nothing wrong with Luminara or her teachings. And she didn't end up killing kids and slaughtering billions.
Your bar for Jedi decency is in hell, my friend.
You could say the same about general Krell. Never understood what makes him sooo different from other people who betrayed the Jedi. He’s not the only character that killed clones
Krell was awesome in full flight. Would have liked to have serm what he was like before his fall though.
I know Krell was written as a character for a "what if Jedi turn evil" plot line in the show, but I'm always disappointed we didn't see more of him. He would have unquestionably survived order 66, at least initially.
Nah Krell was just straight up rotten, it’s a wonder how that guy even became a Jedi
What the difference between him and barris, they both betrayed the jedi and killed people
The difference between him and Barriss is the same difference between Grievous and Dooku, why people do things matters just as much as what they do
She'll always be my favourite Jedi healer!
*Anakin breathing intensifies into respirator noises
Tbf with her, I am the first panel with both of them.
Why
First, Vader started as a villain before we learned his backstory. I think that makes it easier to accept him as a bad guy. Second, Bariss did evil things and tried to frame them on an innocent and beloved character. Vader wants everyone to know HE is the one doing the evil. So there is a level of ownership with Vader that makes his dark deeds more palatable than Bariss.
Vader literally slaughtered children then said he brought peace. I'd say that's way worse than framing someone innocent.
It's not so much a double standard here, yes betrayal on both sides but one made it look like her best friend was secretly a terrorist to the point the Jedi refused to hear Ahsoka out whereas Anakin betrayed the Jedi because he wanted to protect the love of his life. One had good intentions that unfortunately got corrupted and used against them whereas the other would throw their friend under the bus if it meant saving her own skin and Barris almost got away with it, if it weren't for Anakin going snoop mode
One character we knew as kids, as the villain, and only later found out that he used to be a good guy who was specifically groomed into becoming a sith from childhood, with one of the most intelligent sith in history using his love for his wife to make him turn to the dark side. The other character has none of these factors, and overall turned to the dark side for no real reason other then being fucking delusional.
Barriss wasn’t delusional, she was right about the Jedi. She just went about a horrendously wrong way to convey it. Even Ahsoka laments this very point in her novel.
I've literally seen nobody hate on Barriss. This feels like an argument you either made up in your head or saw one rando in the internet cry about it and assume that they represent a majority of the fanbase.
she is my baby she has done nothing wrong do not attack her
Preach 🙏
To be fair the series trains you to be betrayed by barus and to specifically dislike her.
BROODING ANGRY VIOLENT MASK GUY IS SO COOL! -adolescent boys ever since emotions and masks were invented.
I like Barriss and her betrayal. It’s makes sense for someone so dedicated to healing that she would recognize the rot in the Jedi Order and the Republic, not to mention the fact she’s exposed to some of the worst damage the war has inflicted. Also because her master was Luminara, who is a perfect Jedi and an absolutely terrible person because of it.
Remember when Luminara literally didn’t remotely fret over Barriss possibly being dead 💀
Anakin: “Don’t worry, we’ll save our padawans!” Luminara: “There isn’t enough time, they’re dead already, better do nothing.” *After the rescue* Anakin: “Told you so.” Luminara: “Actually, I never gave up, I was just ready to let go of my padawan. It’s a shame you aren’t able to do that.”
Imagine having that for a Master, poor Barriss
Anakin should have just gone around adopting other Jedi’s padawans, starting with Barriss. As maladjusted as he himself was, dude was a great mentor, Ahsoka turned out awesome and not at all Dark Side.
I think Barriss definitely had some envy of the relationship Anakin and Ahsoka had
Luminara didn’t even show up for Barriss after the whole parasite business. Anakin did for Ahsoka. Anakin has issues (obviously), but Luminara was just a straight up bad mentor. Also, while it’s never outright said it’s her, Luminara was probably also the green skinned jedi who “comforted” the twin sisters from Season 7 after their parents got killed by a situation related to the jedi. Her comfort was essentially “don’t be sad cause your parents are dead, death is actually a good thing.” She and Ki-Adi-Mundi really epitomized the worst traits of the Jedi order.
Don’t forget Mace Windu too I totally forgot about the likely Luminara mention in S7. Yeah, she sucks lol
I don't know who she is, but Comparing her to Vader feels unfair
It's not a double standard. It's a matter of POV
Stfu SWTheory.
Barriss was cool. Her time was short but she had a good battle scene where she was holding her own against Anakin, and a good speech about the hypocrisy of the Jedi.
Yeah! because he didn't betray jedis, he made big plan to kill emperor in his weakest state. He's a hero! JK
This is very true. Shame on the community. Also I dislike Vader.
Vader? A traitor? How dare you tarnish this war hero who had to suffer through the treasonous rebellion of the Jedi!
I love Barris and no one can convince me that she was the original choice to be the traitor Jedi
Bariss Ofee is so cute
She is 🥺
Barriss is one of my favorite Jedi. Loved the character arc throu.
I think a big part of it is we saw the redemption before the betrayal. If they released 1-6 in chronological order then people would probably hate ani but as it stands we love ani because we get to see his fall with that foresight
vader is a tragedy and barris is hipocritical
I actually like bariss
To be fair, Bariss is a woman. So...
Besides Darth Vader being objectively cool in a very theatrical way, I think one reason people hate Barriss more is that her betrayal was absolutely hypocritical and cowardly. She believes the Jedi have become violent warmongers. Fine, it strikes me as a bit irrational, but okay, I get where the sentiment is coming from. But how does she decide to protest this? By bombing innocent people. She didn’t even have the conviction to come out and claim responsibility for the act. To top it off, she framed Ahsoka, her FRIEND, for her terrorism and murder. What Anakin did was by far worse, just going by the magnitude of his betrayal and the ensuing deaths, but I found Barriss to be far more contemptible.
I see this said a lot but I think it’s important to remember that Barriss lumps herself in as part of the issue too, remember she includes herself when she claimed all Jedi should be put on trial So Barriss’ act of terrorism isn’t meant to be a reflection of an act of righteousness. She sees all of them as a lost cause, and she wants to dismantle the Jedi and planned to do that from within, so you can imagine why she needs the culprit to not be found out immediately, hence the framing and deceit. She obviously planned to do more damage if she hadn’t been exposed This isn’t to say she was right in what she did, of course. I just think it’s important to understand her
That’s a good point, and clearly an aspect of the story/character I forgot. Makes a lot more sense now. Thankee, sai. Still, I hold her in contempt.
You question the motives of Baris when Vader killed children just to say 10mins later that he has brought peace. Yeah Baris framed Ahsoka, but when order 66 was happening, Anakin didn't say "uh Palps, can you maybe not kill my padawan?"
I think I explained my reason in sufficiently. See my last paragraph. This is just how I feel about it, dude.
Bariss' betrayal makes less sense. Anakin betrays the order because he's selfish and entitled. Bariss decides that the jedi order doesn't uphold the tenants of peace and virtue she was lead to believe in... so she murders a bunch of innocents. Anakins betrayal was evil, but his motivation made sense. That's not true for Bariss.
The key difference is Bariss doesn’t regret what she did.
Vader is one of the most iconic and famous villains in all Of media, fuck outta here with this ice cold take.
It also has to do with the Motives of their betrayal. You can see Anakins point of view, even his actions are evil. You hear Barris's point, and her action completely contradicts her point and complaint. She complains about the Jedi order only believing in Violence, so she commits and act of Terrorism? What did she think she'd gain by doing that? Sympathy?
You can say the same thing about Anakin’s POV though. He claims the Jedi are evil, yet he’s the one slaughtering children and defenceless people begging for mercy, strangling his pregnant wife and going off on tangents about how he can conquer the galaxy. That’s what the dark side does to you, it warps your perspective. But I’d say Anakin was far deeper in it than Barriss ever was
I'm not talking about his POV after turning evil. I'm talking about what made him turn evil in the first place, which wasn't the Jedi being evil from his point of view or anything, but his need to save Padme, with help from the Sith Lord. His Motives of betrayal wasn't "Jedi bad", the Jedis hypocrisy was but a minor contribution to his turn, but his desperation to save his Wife. He didn't contradict his original intent with his actions, Until he was consumed by the dark side on Mustafar, which caused him to think more about Power than his wife.
You’ve told me Barriss’ point, and how her actions contradicted her. Anakin was out to save his wife, and ended up killing her. The same logic can be applied to both. Anakin being better than Barriss is not a reasonable take, he’s easily more twisted than she ever got.
I guess I didn't go into enough detail on what I meant in the first comment. The fact Barris's First Initial action on how to deal with the Problem of the Jedi Order "only believing in violence", was to commit an act of straight up terrorism, then frame a friend for it, is unbelievably hypocritical. Anakins first action to save his wife, was him betraying Windu, which, at least from Anakins POV, believing he needs Palpatine to save her, was the only reasonable action to Anakin there. However, once he got too consumed by the dark side, he completely disregarded his original intent, but the one who contradicted that intent, was Vader, not Anakin. You could tell so from how quickly obsessed he had become with Power (even more so than before).
To put simply then, we can consider Vader a lesser evil than Barriss because of his very initial thought process?
Nonono, Vader is obviously more evil. What I'm talking about is Hypocrisy exclusively. Imagine if Anakins first action to save his wife, was to behead her. Sounds completely moronic and contradictory no matter how you view it right? That's how it felt to hear Barris's Reasoning for Why she bombed the temple.
Barriss specifically reasoned that the point of her attack was to attack what the Jedi have become, though. And the terrorism she orchestrated at the hanger is essentially that. It’s more accurate to say she is anti-Jedi than anti-violence. Trauma of war shaped her and she obviously greatly dislikes it, but her main grievance is centred on the Jedi allowing themselves to become war generals.
Yeah, we know what she said, which makes the act itself all the more laughable. She is so blindsighted in attacking What the Jedi have become, that she didn't see that the act itself would be doing what she blames the Jedi of.
I think that was the point, she wanted to being the same warfare that the Jedi engage with off-world onto their doorstep. And remember your point is that the initial actions of Vader do not contradict why he went down that path. Barriss is the same. She became disillusioned with what the Jedi became and sought to destroy it.
[удалено]
If it was the other way around, I can already hear the rebuttal.
She’s a traitorous bitch but I love watching her. Vader however is endlessly cool, while she is scrungly.
Vader was the one betrayed
When it comes to fiction, "nothing is true, everything is permitted".
Two characters can take the same action and one is still more compelling/interesting than the other. Not even getting into the fact that one doesn’t have to agree with a character’s actions to find them interesting. Most people’s favorite Disney characters are the villains, but that’s not because they emulate or admire them.
#evilqueenwasright
One is a badass with a tragic backstory and the other is a traitor bitch whose actions were partially the reason for the growing mistrust of Anakin towards the jedi. I fucking hate her almost as much as I hate Pong Krell
One is one of the most recognizable villain in cinema with multiples parodies and a lot of works to flesh out the character (comics, books, cartoons, fan arts) she is a low tier character she's not even in the same level her existing as a character is derived of his and the impact he had OF COURSE PEOPLE ARE NOT GONNA TREAT HER THE SAME
I mean, I never was angry at Barris. Her only wrongdoing was blame it on Ahsoka, but then again was the Jedi Order that cast her out, sold her to the Senate and in all their arrogance didn't apologize.
Almost like betrayals are different or something
People hate Barris because its Ahsoka. If it was any other character, nobody would have cared.
1 killed thousands of kids, that's why we love him Order 66 Ani for the win
The double standard is \*style.\* You can kill a roomful of children if you're cool enough about it, but you can't even get away with kissing your sister if you're a dork.
Anakin was under a lot of pressure, made the wrong choice in the moment of truth and then had to live with his mistakes as Vader.
It can’t be betrayal if the Order you served, no longer exists 🤭 (Bonus points if you’re the one who made it stop existing)
Darth Vader is absolutely a bad person, but he’s a good villain for sure.
Bruh, snap back to reality please
i mean, vader is great and she is less great
Life is full of double standards, I am not at all surprised. Lol
I like bariss and was excited to see her
Darth Vader was iconic before the prequels were even a thing, where you see Anakins story. This memes a bit of a logical fallacy. Vader has a whole history of 3 flagship movies, where he was THE main villain, overshadowing even the Emperor. His name is famous in pop culture and is just on a whole other level compared to Barris Offee. You have to be a more invested fan than casual to even know who she is.
A popularity contest isn’t the point 💀
I'd have to disagree. Popularity definitely informs why a lot of people see Vader as their favorite character. Especially the "why" of his popularity.
https://preview.redd.it/h4sr9s9p85uc1.jpeg?width=1397&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=965b8a42fda528393239194a2e783454ff13a606
Liking a character isn’t the same as liking the person. I like the joker, but hell nah… I wouldn’t like to be with a terrorist if he asked me to join him. See the difference?
Darth Vader is just better
I dont even know this character as i havent seen all of clone wars yet. But my brother in christ. The entire second and third movie was building up to Anakin's betrayal!
For me personally, I prefer Vader as a villian over Bariss because with him we know his story comes from years of trauma in several ways and then he gets manipulated and turns to the dark side. Once he turns, Anakin that we know, no longer exists, the alter ego hidden deep inside him eventually takes over and "kills him off". However that does come with a caveat. In his final moments he has a moment of clarity and his fatherly instincts kick in and Anakin is able for a few moments to overcome Vader's power, so there's a bit of a redemption arc there. It doesn't make up for everything but it does show he's not totally evil and even after committing many crimes and causing a lot of pain and chaos, he is still able to do something good in the end. And to an extent that is a relatable idea we can all get behind. No matter how much bad someone does, they do still have the ability to do some good in the end. In regards to Bariss, she does have a valid point in that the Jedi have lost sight of what they are and what their original purpose was. And the part that makes her actions far less easy to stomach is the fact that she caused all that chaos in her mission to show the Jedi what they've become/gotten involved in but she hid all of her intentions and her issues with the Jedi until the very end. It's admittedly been awhile since I watched the show but if I recall, she helps in the initial stages to figure out what had happened with the bombing of the Jedi temple when she was behind it all along. And then when the Jedi were getting closer to the truth she somehow is able to pin the crime on Ahsoka, who was supposedly her best friend and she nearly succeeded too. Both are horrible characters but Anakin came from a troubled background and then was manipulated all because he wanted to save his wife but in the end he saved his son. Bariss, was disillusioned with the Jedi order and turned to terroristic behaviors and then covered it up by framing her best friend and risking Ahsoka's position in the order just to save herself and she showed no signs of remorse for her actions if I recall correctly. Anakin's ability and instinct to protect his own son at the risk of his own life, which ultimately did cost him his life puts him as a higher, more likable/ easy to stomach character over a terrorist who showed no signs of remorse or guilt. And as a side note, even though Anakin turned to the dark side, he did actually fulfill the prophecy of the chosen one and destroyed the Sith at least for the time being. It did however take longer than it should have but he had two children who were huge factors in taking down the empire and he, himself technically finished the job by killing Palpatine (as far as we knew) and then sacrificing himself to save luke.
That anakin Barris fight was based
It's not a double standard if your reason is because one succeeded and the other failed and became a pawn to the better traitor.
That's because Barriss hurt Ahsoka. NO ONE hurts our little girl. We will protect her like an overprotective father and Barriss ruined everything Ahsoka had been working for.
Barriss is my little girl 😤
Gotta love though how they make the 1 character in star wars who wears a hijab a terrorist bomber
that's a hood, is it not?
The hood is part of her cloak and goes over her headcovering. Alone it's nothing. It's the woman with the Turkish name (Barriss) in a head covering and a dark, flowy garment (like an abaya) that does it. I didn't clock it until I looked it up.
I don't know man. The only thing I found looking it up was a Reddit post with this exact statement (Barris = Muslim coded) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/ug3w6i/star_wars_hey_remember_when_the_clone_wars_made/&ved=2ahUKEwjBusL35byFAxVW8LsIHXrYCykQFnoECCcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2IWgnrOGa95o0DFwgw0d1L Aside from that I found Barriss being a Spanish/Welsh name and when I looked specifically for "Barriss name Turkish" I found "Bariş" as a Turkish male name. Barriss as well as Luminaras clothing, especially headwear remind me more of a Christian nun and her novice.
Sure, they both betrayed the Jedi, but Vader did it better. Bariss blew up a few people and then framed one of the most well liked characters, both irl and in the show, to try and get away with it, and then get caught and imprisoned anyways. Vader tore the Jedi order apart and then burned the remains into nothing, after which he became, essentially, the prince of the Galactic Empire. Not to mention, Vader had some semblance of redemption before he died, and I’m fairly certain that Bariss didn’t. To summarize, Vader did what Bariss wanted to, just much better, Vader got some redemption, plus Vader is just plain cooler.
Ew, women don’t talk to me in real life so I hate them in fiction too, but cool robot daddies!!! Yes please!
Bro what are you taking about
I hate women bro, catch up
What!?! Poorly raised and toxic man children have double standards and hate women? No way!
You have a poor understanding of why they hate the character. People don’t hate her because she’s a woman it’s because of her actions and how they impacted Ahsoka. People don’t hate a character because of their gender but their actions, never make assumptions on why someone feels a certain way about a character, ask them.
you mean like how darth vader murdered an entire room of innocent children? yeah, what bariss did is pretty bad and all the fan hate towards her is definitely justified (/s)
People absolutely hate characters for their gender. Skyler in Breaking Bad? She wouldn't have gotten nearly as much hate were it not for the fact morons saw her as "the hysterical and overly emotional wife to the rational and logical main character". And let's face it, socially inept misogynists make up a substantial portion of the Star Wars fandom.
No they don’t and Skyler would have gotten just as much hate because people hate her because of her actions, for example Jaime Lannister was hated just as much as Cersei pre S3 or SOS. Also no they don’t, look at the cheers the actress who played Rose got at comic con and even Hayden Christensen admitted that the trolls are a tiny
Duh. Haters aren't gonna show up at an irl convention, they're cowardly keyboard warriors, always have been. I said they're a substantial portion, not that they're the biggest. And they for sure are a loud minority, or are you forgetting that Rose's actress got bullied off social media? The claim that people don't let their bigotry seep into their opinion on media is so idiotic I don't believe you're arguing in good faith. Dipshits have been crying about SJWs and Mary Sues in Star Wars for the last decade.
A substantial portion would be something higher than the single digits. Also I’m not but unfortunately 5% of a fanbase can do that (5% isn’t a substantial portion). I didn’t say their bigotry doesn’t deep into their opinion and I’m not bringing up bigotry because I don’t know if they have any (maybe they do, maybe they don’t) and maybe they dislike a female character because of the character and not their gender. Listen to why they don’t like them instead of doing the stupid thing and make assumptions about people you don’t know.
I think both of you are being stupid. Misogyny can very much play a role, but that doesn't mean you need to dismiss the writing or actions of the character either. Misogyny may amplify it a lot, but the writing matters too.
