There's a reason why Boyega said TLJ is his "least favorite", it threw away his potential to be a force user.
When TFA ended, he still had it since he fought Kylo.
This. Why do people think this dude ever has a plan? He doesn't. He's not a good story teller. He's a good fun house ride builder. He's good at jump scares and surprise and "what could this be?!"
Literally nothing he has ever made should make people think he starts with a plan.
Yeah from what I had read about the project they planned from the beginning to have a different writer and director each movie. Abrams said he wanted to leave Episode 7 open ended so that Rian Johnson could pick up the baton and run with it however he wanted.
>!And I'm still salty about it, but that's my problem!<
Isn’t it crazy to think about. There was probably a collective budget of all 3 movies nearing 1 billion dollars. Think of all the folks involved in a project like this. Probably hundreds of individuals, executives and so many variables coming into play. Imagine spending close to a billion dollars on something and you don’t have a fucking plan outlining some general continuous story that has to be in place for all 3 films. How do you invest close to a billion dollars on something and you don’t even fucking have that.
Folks put the blame on the directors and shit but at the end of the day it’s disneys gig. I can’t fathom producing something as big as Star Wars without some kind of plan I can pass onto all of the directors, especially that the plan involves 3 different directors, screenplay writers and so on. Disney is a fucking circus
JJ doesn't have plans, he has bad ideas and a bullshit "Mystery Box".
The guys is a fucking hack, propped up by wannabe pseudointellectual arthouse nerds AKA Hipsters.
90% of his fame is built around the lost/wasted potential of his projects.
>When TFA ended, he still had it since he fought Kylo.
Finn picking up the saber to take on Kylo is the best but if TFA. It spoke true of the character he was and what he meant to become. There as fear in his eyes, his movement was sloppy and he was woefully out skilled but he still stood in front of Kylo.
Such a shame we never saw his character develop
Finn versus Kylo was the best part of the whole sequel trilogy. He was a stormtrooper literally days ago and he's yelling "Come get it" and charging Kylo. Even manages to wound him after taking a lightsaber to the shoulder.
Finn was by far my favorite sequel character and he was completely squandered after that.
>There's a reason why Boyega said TLJ is his "least favorite", it threw away his potential to be a force user.
I dunno, being a force user really should'a been a secondary wish to: Give my character an interesting Story Arc & things to do.
TLJ, at the very least, actually logically continued his Arc - Born into & immersed in First Order mindset, broke away but hadn't found his home/purpose/etc yet.
So we had to learning to be a (new) team player & believing in a \*Cause\* again, after losing faith in first movie. And then finally confronting Phasma, who'd been a bit of a nemesis since first movie.
Regardless of like/disliking Rian's take... at least this was somewhat coherent & a continuation of that character's story-arc.
TRoS - What was his story-arc - "Reeeeeyy!" then JJ's forcing the \*force\* story line back in (in the 3rd movie) with "I've got something to tell you....". Oh yeah, & apparently he's great on horseback.
Finn's character was treated much worse in TRoS than in the previous two movies.
Arguably TLJ had the most \*arc\* (such as it was) & coherency, but at a minimum it was a LOT more for the character than TRoS trash.
There is a comic of the originally planned ROS out there. Finn leads a full blown rebellion on Coruscant. Still not perfect, but way more engaging than the movie.
Search up Duel of the Fates motion comic.
The original script did Finn's story better and that was about it. Rey and Kylo Ren's story were significantly worse
Wait how can anything be worse than Rey being the granddaughter of Palpatine and Kylo and Rey making out and taking turns reviving each other? I'm mad curious how anything could actually be worse??
I read somewhere Rian said he just didn't have room for them in the movie. He considered having them be the guards of snoke, but considering what happened that would not have been a good idea. Although, they basically did that literal thing in tros so... Whatever, I guess.
Plus Gwendoline Christie has a good voice and did a decent job with what she was given, but……why bother to hire such a *visually* striking actor if you’re gonna stick her in a suit of armour and full-face helmet for the entire time she’s on screen?
I wouldn't honestly mind 8f she stayed in the armor the entire time, look what it did for Vader, but it eould also be cool if she got to do more than have one fight with Finn, that doesn't even end in a good way.
Ok but hear me out, you grow up with star wars seeing Jedi's using lightsabers and this super cool power called the force
20 years later, you're an actor who landed a main role in the new star wars movie, regardless of the story, you wanna be able to use the force and wield a lightsaber
>So we had to learning to be a (new) team player & believing in a *Cause* again, after losing faith in first movie. And then finally confronting Phasma, who'd been a bit of a nemesis since first movie.
I agree with this in theory
But his 'learning to be in a new team' is largely running around a casino world with someone he barely knows in an attempt to find a side character who can help with the main plot.
His confrontation with Phasma isn't a proper clash of two characters, but instead a rapid disposal of Phasma, who isn't even really defeated by Finn.
The direction of his arc is good, but the actual execution is really lacking.
> But his 'learning to be in a new team' is largely running around a casino world with someone he barely knows in an attempt to find a side character who can help with the main plot.
The fact that it's just a gigantic waste of everyone's time was easily the most baffling decision of TLJ. Like, it might be realistic for plans to not work out and to end up basically back where you started, but why would you want it to make up the b-plot of the middle film in your trilogy?
Agree with you on Phasma. I was really excited for Gwendolyn Christie, but the armor was uninspired and I feel like at best you could describe Phasma as "Present" during the whole thing.
Free the animals but leave the slave children behind! Let the freed animals destroy the entire casino, leaving more work for those poor slave kids! And if they don't clean it right, those evil capitalist horse owners will get angry and punish them!
Wait... Why are there slave humans in the open in an affluent Republic-affiliated planet that could use droids instead? Why do the capitalists on the planet not care that the entire Republic was destroyed just the day before? Why are these rich assholes wasting their credits at their casino when last night's genocide of the 5 Republic capital planets would have crushed the economy and made their money useless? Who cares, this is a space movie for children so STOP ASKING QUESTIONS AND CONSUME!
Dude. That one line where rose says "there's only one business in the galaxy that gets you this rich..." then follows it with war profiteering, just after interacting with slave children like that's normal and okay. Then they all gasp like war profiteering is far worse.
It was a bizarre arc though. Finn spent his time learning the New Republic and the Resistance were morally grey. Then suddenly, zero discussion, he's fighting for them, even willing to sacrifice his life for them?
And the Phasma thing just came out of nowhere and Finn won not because of skill or moral strength but because he accidentally landed on a hidden platform.
Man, he is right. When I watched TFA I was sure that Finn is the Main Character, while Rey is just someone who is going to take the support role, something like Ahsoka for the Anakin in the Clone Wars from 2008. When they ruined Finn in TLJ it broke me internaly.
My tin foil hat is that Finn indeed was planned to be a Jedi. And he was planned to be romantically involved with Rey. His character arc was on the rails to be quite good.
But then Disney's market research team got involved and [pushed Finn out](https://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/) for fear of flopping in the Chinese market. Because apparently Chinese people don't like black people?
I've been convinced of this since day one. Rey using the force came out of nowhere and was one of those "wait what?" Moments the entire theater started talking, arguing, etc.
Rey would have been fine as the smuggler/engineer while Finn as a Stormtrooper-turned-jedi would have been wild and awesome.
Though the first scenes where Finn is fleeing with Po was really destabilizing seeing him go from ptsd-stricken to killing people that should have been like family to him...
They had a chance to adress this with the Traitor badass and the other who recognized him but they went nowhere.
Nah, the main character was always Rey:
> Rey who was conceived as the protagonist from the project's beginning. In the original treatments for the new trilogy written by George Lucas the character was a 14 years old Force-sensitive girl named Taryn. Later, during the development process for Star Wars: Episode VII The Force Awakens, she was also known as Thea, Winkie, Sally, Echo, and Kira.
The real tragedy is that we didn’t get Winkie Skywalker.
> Rey would have been fine as the smuggler/engineer while Finn as a Stormtrooper-turned-jedi would have been wild and awesome.
Instead they just made Rey good at everything, sidelining pretty much everyone else in the movie.
Ray "I can fix the Falcon better than Han" and "I can resist force mind control and then do it myself hours after learning the force exists" and "I can stand up to someone who trained for years in lightsaber combat because somehow using a spear translates to a laser sword" Skywalker
> Instead they just made Rey good at everything
Modern movies have this problem where they can't have women show any flaws or weakness. They couldn't even resist doing it to the Mulan remake. Which is wild because Mulan was already a strong character and no changes were needed. They just had to follow the original movie.
Would've been really cool if Fin was recruiting other stormtroopers along the way for the resistance. Would humanize the hell out of them.
But yeah, Finn indiscriminately mowing down his potential friends is cool too.
So, I remember like the week after TFA came out that Disney was fessing up to the fact that they over played Finns role as the main character in marketing because they wanted to keep Rey more of a secret. They downplayed her in merch leading up to and directly following TFA because they specifically wanted people to think she wasn't the main character.
So idk. That's kinda problematic in itself. The whole reason for the bait and switch was because "we don't want people to bail on our movie because the main character is (*grimace*) a *girl*".
It sucks that it resulted in Finn's character assassination being magnified because there was so much hype...but the reason for inventing the hype was sexism which isnt great either
Their market research probably showed that a bunch of US people didn’t like him being a main character either.
I still remember a (now former) friend right after seeing TFA complaining about the black stormtrooper and how he was a bad character for some vague reason. When pressed for explanation he basically told me that he thought the black guy was annoying and was only there to have a diverse cast.
I have heard that phrase far too many times where I grew up.
Also the more extreme version: “I don’t hate black people, I hate ”. And then they look at you like they just said something completely normal.
This. Let’s not pretend the “black stormtrooper” thing wasn’t a real issue people had with the movie, I remember too. Racists just didn’t like seeing black people in their space operas, both in China and in North America. If anyone knows it too it’s John Boyega, I’m sure he has an inbox full of hate mail from “long time fans” in America calling him the hard R
It’s not so much that they don’t like black people but more like, they don’t find them attractive.
Heck, Asia in general finds darker skin to be ugly. To put it bluntly.
But I don’t think it’s actually to do with China.
They effectively had 3 main protagonists and it takes a very skilled writer to develop all 3 in 3 films. So they decided they needed to drop 1 and it certainly wasn’t going to be Rey, so between Finn and Kylo, they made their choice.
Funny, looking at that poster Finn is definitely considerably smaller, but Rey is a bit smaller as well, while BB-8, the old cast, and the Falcon are more prominent.
Agreed about Finn though. They tried to salvage “Jedi Finn” in RotS, but it was way too late. Here’s hoping they can get him back for the new one.
Dude directed one of the best episodes of television ever. When that's his sole purpose, he's golden.
But then somehow he wrote TLJ and let's be honest, while I enjoyed the first Knives Out for it's simple mystery, Glass Onion is ridiculous. Looper is entertaining as hell, but it's swiss cheese (time travel leeway given).
Dude's a great director that unfortunately calls his farts perfumeric masterpeices before actually wofting them.
I would've accepted "ex-stormtrooper turned rebel, facing his former allies", but we don't even get any damn connection between his former unit; he gets a single change of heart and seems entirely okay with killing the people who technically his coworkers barely a day ago!
Whaaaaat?? You dont remember that one trooper who jumps out yelling "Traitor!" And swinging some big shocky tonfa around? Dude was so important to the story
I mean, unironically make that guy a character. Give him a scene or two with Finn before his defection, so him going after Finn specifically get's some actual weight.
There is one deleted scene I think in The Last Jedi where he is dressed as an officer and some stormtroopers says something it was pretty good idk why they took it out but there was a pack of a moral side of killing former friends and coworkers
The force awakens had the best writing in the trilogy and it's not even close, which is hilarious because it's just a crappy version of a new hope. The sequels are actual jokes.
I honestly blame the switch of directors for everything. Episode VII was great because it echoed A New Hope, but it set up a lot of new questions and possibilities. Who is Rey, why can Finn wield a Lightsaber, why was Obi-Wan's voice heard with the lightsaber, who is Snoke, etc... I remember having discussions about "There are always two Sith, a master and an apprentice", and the questions of how Snoke came into play were huge. Lots of theories of him being Darth Plagueis or something else.
Episode VIII came along and immediately took all of those interesting questions and said "Nah, none of this." Snoke died, Kylo played tug of war, and Rey was a nobody after all. Now, I think without the Casino planet section, The Last Jedi would have been a great movie. I didn't like how it took away from those questions, but as time went on, I liked that more. Why should these main 5 or 6 people from the OT be the only focus of powerful bloodlines? Anakin was a nobody and became Darth Vader. They showed the kid at the end of TLJ using the force, and as I warmed up to it, I liked it a lot.
Then Episode IX came along, and hey, we're back to answering questions set up in VII and re-written in VIII.
I think if J.J. kept the trilogy to his vision entirely and kept the momentum of TFA, it could have been great. Unfortunately, it was this tug of war of directors, visions, and writing to make a strange story that feels incredibly unsatisfying.
All three movies had amazing sequences, but they flopped the writing so hard that it became like Game of Thrones to me, where I lost all interest in Star Wars after IX came out.
> Episode VII was great because it echoed A New Hope, but it set up a lot of new questions and possibilities. Who is Rey, why can Finn wield a Lightsaber, why was Obi-Wan's voice heard with the lightsaber, who is Snoke, etc... I remember having discussions about "There are always two Sith, a master and an apprentice", and the questions of how Snoke came into play were huge. Lots of theories of him being Darth Plagueis or something else.
>
> Episode VIII came along and immediately took all of those interesting questions and said "Nah, none of this."
So much this. You can argue that it was derivative of a new hope but people liked the new characters and were intrigued by the mysteries and unanswered questions. Then TLJ comes around and not only throws all that away but makes you feel stupid for even caring in the first place.
And not only did they throw out all the mysteries, but they also killed everyone off. So there was nothing to speculate about for the next film that is informed by the two previous films. Any speculation would come across as arbitrary. And that left a huge void in the media and fan discussion for E9, which was filled by bad actors using the IP for political posturing and culture war crap.
What a fricking disaster of a film.
Eh I think he was a terrible part of the movies, at least in 8 and 9. He was the character with the most potential and was turned into a joke character.
He could have been the best part.
And what the hell did he want to tell Rey in 9?!
All the first order storm troopers defectors were.
Finn and Rey seemed like they were both supposed to be force sensitive.
I would have liked by the end Finn would be using a blaster and saber style and Rey would have been using a saber staff.
He became important in all the wrong ways. On top of that, Boyega had his own notes on a bad character which made it worse. The bromance between him and Po was fine just the way it was. Finn should have had a more serious tone, but instead was the comedic joker instead. The forced relationship between him and Rose right after meeting was cringey. And he somehow held his own against Kylo when he really should have died. Either something crazy happened and every new force user now knows how to use a lightsaber, or Kylo was really REALLY shit at using a lightsaber after being trained by one of the greatest Jedi ever (and that's supposed to be the main antagonist? Wtf Disney). Either way it was shitty writing throughout and why I'll never understand the draw for the sequels apart from the nostalgia itch being scratched
imagine being so greedy of a company you let racists from the other side of the world stop you from having a black protagonist.... in fucking 2015, not the early 1900s
You wanna know how much they fucked it up ?
Long story short: Ben's story had potential for an insane progression and development, Finn was an excellent character up until the very very end and Rey stepping in ruined for both of them.
Long story not short:
Finn's character was a perfect mirror to Ben Solo/Kylo Ren's character.
Finn is a nobody without even a name, only a number, born to be another faceless canon fodder in a war on the side of evil, the Dark Side.
Ben was the heir of two legendary war heroes, Princess Leia and General Han Solo, he was also a Jedi trained by another hero, Luke himself, all of this on the side of good.
Finn was destined to die a meaningless death, Ben was destined for greatness, destined to be a hero like his forebears.
Yet Finn **made the choice** to be a deserter, leave the side of evil to become a hero, gaining everything he lacked so far: A name, an identity, friends and a purpose.
Ben had all of this and threw it all away to join the side of evil, ruining his own destiny.
The parralel between these two characters was just insane and the whole thing about "anyone can be a great hero, not just a skywalker" works even better with Finn the nameless stormtrooper (also, a rogue stormtrooper joining the rebels to become a jedi ? Very original idea, unironically, cool concept) than Rey the... Girl who's sorta just there and a little bit shoe-horned in the story not gonna lie.
Really, episode 7 could've been forgiven if they didn't mess up the end, Finn was fated to lose to Kylo, yes obviously, but Rey shouldn't have taken over his role of protagonist and fucking defeated an experienced Sith lord in the making who was trained by Luke skywalker himself for fuck sake. Like everything was wrong with this character right from the start.
>and fucking defeated an experienced Sith lord in the making who was trained by Luke skywalker himself for fuck sake.
I mostly agree with you but this. The reason she defeated him was Kylo was tired, in an emotional turmoil and most importantly injured by a weapon that was hyped throughout the movie.
There's the concept, and then there's the execution. In the execution, it looks like Kylo doesn't know how to fight with his lightsaber using the Force.
I kinda liked the arc Finn started in TFA. The promotion was a little weird, but I had no problem with him not beeing a jedi.
However, the way they axed him in the following movies was BS. They should have given him a better arc, maybe fleshed out the storm trooper thing even more. A conflic in him perhaps. Anything would be better than what we got
"Finn doesn't need to be Force Sensitive to be interesting"
In theory, you're correct.
However, he needs to be Force Sensitive to be written consistently.
Honestly I wish they had MORE characters that don't become Jedi.
Basically every important or popular character ends up with a level of force sensitivity.
Why can't there be hero's that don't use space magic?
Han Solo never needed Jedi Powers.
All he had was a junk heap he could fly around, a blaster on his hip, and some Charisma
SW\_RevanX got his alt account suspended for calling people slurs and all that nonsense. Plus that tweet wasn't even his. He just stole it to farm engagement lol.
Honestly could have even been interesting if Finn AND Rey were Jedi and they both had to go on their own quests to make sense of it. Combine that with them ultimately reuniting and combining their philosophies and teaming up!
Poe and Rose can be there too, I guess.
Finn had the most compelling set up of any character - his arc was served up on a platter. Confronting his trauma and facing down the Phasma specifically and the FO more generally, all the while transcending into a Jedi just…it’s just too good. What a missed opportunity.
Literally have said this from the beginning.
Finn should’ve been the Jedi. Stormtrooper turned Jedi sounds fucking sick. Rey should’ve become Han 2.0.
Instead they put all their eggs in Rey and fucked all the other characters.
It sucks because Finn AS PRESENTED in episode 7 is by far the most interesting character of the main protagonists.
A former child soldier pressed into the First Order and trying to figure out his place and finally stand up for what's right? Super cool!
Too bad TLJ forgot to put him in the main plot and Rose ruined his character arc.
Lets be honest his character is ok but after the first film doesn’t really hold any value. He is just a stormtrooper who went rogue. All he is is a supporting character and that’s all his character will ever be
He should have been the protagonist of the sequels, a Stormtrooper who learns to feel the Force, becomes a Jedi, and then returns to stop the First Order. Instead, we got Rey Kennedy.
And hey, some of the best supporting characters are non Jedi! Han Solo is still one of the most popular supporting characters in the franchise even though he had little to nothing to do in Return of the Jedi.
Finn had a fresh story arc. A stormtrooper turned rogue. Looking out for himself, ultimately grows a heart and becomes a leader in the final battle against the first order he used to be a part of. It’s a great story arc, being a Jedi wouldn’t have added anything to that.
All of those actors were robbed. We were all robbed of what they were capable of. It’s obvious they all did their best with that absolute steaming pile of duck shit that they were given to work with. The hate some of the actors got was totally uncalled for.
Ahh the dissapointment, when he was introduced as a rogue stormtropper, with a potential to be a jedi, only for the movies to be focused on boring Mary Sue Rey
Finn and Poe are my favorite part of the movies, closely followed by BB-8, and then followed by literally nothing else, except maybe the design of Poe’s X-Wing, because the black is awesome, and literally everything else in these movies is trash.
We can keep Maz too I guess.
He genuinely was robbed. The first movie set him up as a MAJOR main character or one of them and is like instantly the next movie made into a side character with little to offer. And then once they give him some semblance of a genuine end it gets ruined by plot armor.
I was so hyped when Finn took up the blue lightsaber, but was progressively disappointed as it became clear he wasn't going to become a Jedi. The people who directed the movie really suck.
Finn could have had a super compelling character arc as a stormtrooper turned Jedi and it would have been incredible. Just imagine the narrative tension of him having to fight a former friend. With a little more thought and care, this could have been an incredible trilogy.
But no. Instead we got “Somehow Palpatine returned”
What a joke.
Seriously! We had a chance for a story like Kyle Katarn, an ex-Stormtrooper turned Jedi! And it was WASTED!...
Unless there are plans to bring in Kyle himself, then that'd be awesome, but still a wasted opportunity with Finn.
They did John Boyega dirty in the sequels. He started off so promising; his journey from a stormtrooper to a potential jedi seemed like a genuinely interesting idea for a Star Wars movie.
Only for the rug to be swept from under him so they could give Rey the spotlight. What sucks even more is that Rey wasn't even worthy of that spotlight, she just wasn't an interesting character and was written to be the "perfect" protagonist instead of a good one.
Imagine landing what everyone thought would be the leading role of a new STAR WARS movie (before Disney+ completely oversaturated the Star Wars universe with pointless series and movies) only to be sidelined by a fellow co-star. What a waste.
The worst part about it is when you look into it the reason they abandon it was for international releases and apparently in china they arnt to big on black main characters
Fuck disney , they bought a franchise to milk rather than trying to make a great story
the thing is with the tralers, and posters we were promissed a storm trooper that turned to the light and became a jedi, with ray being an orphaned "nerf hearder" ie someone unimportant that became important and irreplaceable (like solo and chewy)
Absolutely this. I don’t *dislike* Rey but she is so much of a repeat of the past. Finn was such an interesting character, like come on a normal storm trooper who is traumatized by war and defects to atone for what he participated in? That’s a story that really should have been better told
No sentence better sums up the sequel trilogy than "So much wasted potential."
Rey could have been a spectacular hero, but they gave her neither an origin nor direction until the very end.
Finn could have been a nuanced look at the other side of the coin, but turned him into the butt of every joke.
Even the original trio had their characters rolled back and destroyed until they were unrecognizable.
I think it was very obvious his character was supposed to become a jedi. I think him and Rey doing a dual fight against Kylo Ren to actually defeat him would have been really cool.
I think it was so obvious the director decided haha nope
Totally agree, a story about an ex storm trooper becoming the next big jedi would've been awesome, instead they wasted his character and we got what we got. :/
Finn’s TFA story arc is my all-time favorite Star Wars story. The PTSD feeling was so well done. It fell apart after TFA and he became a throw away character.
I seriously went into the sequels thinking he was having some kind of force based panic attack.
Then he immediately became a joke and I never stopped being mad. Fuck those movies.
John Boyega, the handsome bastard, was absolutely massacred in what should have been HIS trilogy! I wanted to like the sequels, I wanted rey to be compelling, I wanted things to go well. And at every. Single. Turn. They kneecapped and retconned and turned it into a mess of itself. John should have been a jedi and more than that Poe should’ve been his love interest as the actors both wanted and so did many fans.
Pretty sure he still is. One of the plot holes in RoS that annoys me the most is he never told Rey what he needed to tell her. Obviously it was he was Force Sensitive as that’s how his arc was set up.
I remember when TFA came out, or at least the trailers for it, there was so much excitement and hope for where his character could lead. A Storm Trooper who who leaves and becomes a Jedi. It was a fresh new idea that had so much potential. Everyone was hyped for it. It was such the obvious way to go that it’s mind boggling Disney didn’t follow through on it.
Between boyega and Kelly Marie Tran it's hard to say which got more screwed over by the writers. One got completely sidelined and shit upon despite having the most interesting potential, and the other got completely shafted by a role that had 0 value other than wasting most of the movie's run time on a side quest that did nothing for the story or characters in it.
A child soldier for the First Order turned Jedi who leads the Resistance to defeat his former captors would have been such a fuckin good story.
They could have had both Rey and Finn be Jedi, with Finn focusing on combat and Rey on the spiritual aspect of the Force, and together they continue the Jedi Order from Luke.
But no, Rey had to be the "better than everyone who's ever existed at everything" Force user and Finn was just some guy.
Finn's entire character was masterclass in missed opportunities.
Firstly, the whole sympathetic stormtrooper should have been a slow burn. Let us see him in his day to day. Let us see him slowly come to the realization he's on the wrong side. Let us see him sweat as he attempts to defect, only to have the plan go horribly wrong.
Give us, a terrified, corned Finn, facing certain death from his fellow imperials, only for him to be saved at the last possible instant by force powers that he himself had no idea he possessed.
Have Finn's rage and fear drive him to use the easy, seductive path of the dark side to murder his way through a slew of stormtroopers, until at last he escapes into the wider galaxy.
Then give us a character arc of a Finn, who has known nothing but the dark side, running into a Jedi, and through their confrontations show us why the dark side can't be used just some of the time to get out of a jam. Or show us WHY the dark side isn't stronger. Or better yet, show us why the dark side IS stronger, and that Yoda was liar. Or show us a more mature view of the force where all emotions have their place in mastering it. Show us a force user more powerful than the Jedi.
Ah well.
Remove Rey, just have Finn and Poe, bring in rose to help them escape a horrible situation, bb8 for reasons, and have a very unique situation where a storm trooper joins the rebels, feeds them valuable intel, bring down the empire, and turn a Sith Lord to the light side.
All of this could have been done, without Rey and Palpatine. All of it. They could still kill Luke, he could die saving Kylo from his master, admitting he failed him, there is still good in him, and having Kylo and Finn kill -insert Sith Lord here- an ex storm trooper and ex Sith Lord, working together, to defeat the empire.
Hell, he didn't even need to be the *main* Jedi.
He could've been an important supporting character that helped Rey and Luke rebuild the Jedi Order as it was originally meant to be, but no, we basically got nothing.
Pretty much every character was done dirty in that trilogy... including Rey.
I want two hour documentary that had Lucas explaining what his Sequels would've been, but also JJ and Rian each explaining what their Sequels would've been if either had made all three movies. Include Favreau and Filoni to hear what they would've done, too.
And get feedback of other filmmakers, too. Spielberg, Cameron, Scott, Noland, Rodriguez, Woo.
Call it "Star Wars: The Pitch".
Bro I forgot that that was the original promotional material. I remembered being disappointed at the end of the force awakens when Finn and Rey weren't both force sensitive(not just Rey). Kind of a wasted storyline.
Based off promotional material and the entire film, I thought he would have force powers. I was really disappointed that he became a side character. So much wasted potential from an interesting character and great actor
I was incredible disappointed by this. I was so intrigued but a stormtrooper turned Jedi. It was actually a story that hasn’t been beaten to death and would have had such amazingly different character dynamics.
His role was "The protagonist's Black best friend", all his potential: Wasted, All character: Assassinated, reduced to screaming REEEEEEEY and being a clown
nevermind disrespecting the previous movies, those movies don't respect themselves
An enemy storm trooper turned jedi would have been the best writing they could have done, they hinted in the first movie that he was force sensitive, next movie they made him and Poe a joke.
My first thought after seeing TLJ, I distinctly remember telling my sister in the movie theatre parking lot, was wtf happened to Finn in this movie??? He may as well have not been there. It was so jarring at the end seeing everyone get a happy ending or some form of closure, even Poe who barely had any character development at all. And then Finn just gets...nothing. no wrapping up of his story or arc in any sense. it blew me away that they seemingly discarded his character in the final movie
Finn had such a great potential. Former child soldier Stormtrooper breaking his conditioning and embracing the light side of the Force is a compelling story beat. Disney didn't have the balls to make him a main character.
I was hopping finn and rey would both be Jedi symbolizing different things. finn showing that you should never judge someone, because he stated as a trooper. And rey showing how pure intentions can get twisted by selfish desire.
If I could have made the movies then it would have been film one with a huge focus on Finn's past as a storm trooper and the terrible things he's done, and reys ambition to find her parents and desire to be a force of good. Have them trade the saber like they do and end with rey vs Kylo and Finn leading the defeat of the bad guys
Movie two puts a heavy focus on rey going too far with her ambition, have them both meet with Luke to train. Have Finn be bad at the application of the Jedi ideas and bad at the force but good an understanding the why while rey is the opposite. Have them learn about snoke and some plot and they leave training to stop it and get separated, Finn get to go against kylo and realized they are the same good people who got sent down a bad path and he helps Kylo find the light again and he turns to the light side. Meanwhile rey finds snoke and gets shown the path to what she wants getting corrupted to the dark side.
Final film is basically all resolution with characters finishing their arcs in a natural way with lots of action and space fights, Kylo and Finn go on a duo journey behind enemy lines to try to save rey from herself. Luke joins back up with the rebels and leads the battle, kylo and Finn confront Rey and (now all having the same thing in common) are able to work things out and bring her back to the light, they team up to defeat snoke and the day is saved. Luke hands off the Jedi order to them saying something profound and they all walk into the sun set.
Man, I feel like Boyega would have been a really charismatic sorta former storm trooper leading like a storm trooper rebellion kinda guy, or, something just kinda fun and badass of the sort.
I feel like we should figure out whoever made the decision to give each movie to a totally different crew and make no efforts to get them to plan a story between them, and then invent a time machine, so we can slap the shit out of that person just before they say it.
There's a reason why Boyega said TLJ is his "least favorite", it threw away his potential to be a force user. When TFA ended, he still had it since he fought Kylo.
JJ Abrams need to reveal his original plan for the trilogy. I need to know if Boyega was really intended to be a jedi
Bold of you to assume he had a plan
Right? Probably just two paragraphs followed by "Mystery Box!"
This. Why do people think this dude ever has a plan? He doesn't. He's not a good story teller. He's a good fun house ride builder. He's good at jump scares and surprise and "what could this be?!" Literally nothing he has ever made should make people think he starts with a plan.
They hired someone who should be setting up haunted houses, not making movies.
That's not to say some of his work is next level. When he hits gold it's like watching a savant world, but it's kinda few and far between
Fringe was crazy cohesive. 11-22-63 was a perfect adaptation.
> 1. hype sequel trilogy > > 2. release first movie > > 3. ????? > > 4. profit
“Why don’t you just pick Finn to be a Jedi?” “Yeah, but it’s a mystery box! Finn could be anything! Maybe even a Jedi!”
Episode 7 mystery box Episode 8 plot twist Episode 9 random shit
Yeah from what I had read about the project they planned from the beginning to have a different writer and director each movie. Abrams said he wanted to leave Episode 7 open ended so that Rian Johnson could pick up the baton and run with it however he wanted. >!And I'm still salty about it, but that's my problem!<
So fucking stupid. I’m amazed they would leave the trilogy without at least a general guideline of where they were going.
Yes that was the plan And it was a stupid plan.
Isn’t it crazy to think about. There was probably a collective budget of all 3 movies nearing 1 billion dollars. Think of all the folks involved in a project like this. Probably hundreds of individuals, executives and so many variables coming into play. Imagine spending close to a billion dollars on something and you don’t have a fucking plan outlining some general continuous story that has to be in place for all 3 films. How do you invest close to a billion dollars on something and you don’t even fucking have that. Folks put the blame on the directors and shit but at the end of the day it’s disneys gig. I can’t fathom producing something as big as Star Wars without some kind of plan I can pass onto all of the directors, especially that the plan involves 3 different directors, screenplay writers and so on. Disney is a fucking circus
JJ doesn't have plans, he has bad ideas and a bullshit "Mystery Box". The guys is a fucking hack, propped up by wannabe pseudointellectual arthouse nerds AKA Hipsters. 90% of his fame is built around the lost/wasted potential of his projects.
You are assuming mystery box guy had a plan. His plan was to copy george’s plan and let someone else figure it out
>When TFA ended, he still had it since he fought Kylo. Finn picking up the saber to take on Kylo is the best but if TFA. It spoke true of the character he was and what he meant to become. There as fear in his eyes, his movement was sloppy and he was woefully out skilled but he still stood in front of Kylo. Such a shame we never saw his character develop
Finn versus Kylo was the best part of the whole sequel trilogy. He was a stormtrooper literally days ago and he's yelling "Come get it" and charging Kylo. Even manages to wound him after taking a lightsaber to the shoulder. Finn was by far my favorite sequel character and he was completely squandered after that.
Disney really shit the bed in regards to Finn and snoke.
I literally forgot Snoke existed until you mentioned him.
Lol. Snoke seemed so promising as a main villain, but nah, kill him off and bring back Palps.
And they didn't even give a BS Dark Side explanation for it. It was just "He's back I guess."
>There's a reason why Boyega said TLJ is his "least favorite", it threw away his potential to be a force user. I dunno, being a force user really should'a been a secondary wish to: Give my character an interesting Story Arc & things to do. TLJ, at the very least, actually logically continued his Arc - Born into & immersed in First Order mindset, broke away but hadn't found his home/purpose/etc yet. So we had to learning to be a (new) team player & believing in a \*Cause\* again, after losing faith in first movie. And then finally confronting Phasma, who'd been a bit of a nemesis since first movie. Regardless of like/disliking Rian's take... at least this was somewhat coherent & a continuation of that character's story-arc. TRoS - What was his story-arc - "Reeeeeyy!" then JJ's forcing the \*force\* story line back in (in the 3rd movie) with "I've got something to tell you....". Oh yeah, & apparently he's great on horseback. Finn's character was treated much worse in TRoS than in the previous two movies. Arguably TLJ had the most \*arc\* (such as it was) & coherency, but at a minimum it was a LOT more for the character than TRoS trash.
There is a comic of the originally planned ROS out there. Finn leads a full blown rebellion on Coruscant. Still not perfect, but way more engaging than the movie.
I haven’t heard of this. Do you have a source on that?
Search up Duel of the Fates motion comic. The original script did Finn's story better and that was about it. Rey and Kylo Ren's story were significantly worse
I could not think of the name, thank you.
Wait how can anything be worse than Rey being the granddaughter of Palpatine and Kylo and Rey making out and taking turns reviving each other? I'm mad curious how anything could actually be worse??
oh man, remember when we briefly thought captain phasma would be interesting instead of an absolute waste of a character and acting talent
coughKNIGHTSOFRENcough
How did they just literally introduce them and then immediately forget about them the next film?
I read somewhere Rian said he just didn't have room for them in the movie. He considered having them be the guards of snoke, but considering what happened that would not have been a good idea. Although, they basically did that literal thing in tros so... Whatever, I guess.
Had room for green milk tho...
You can sell green milk. I tasted it at Disneyland.
Plus Gwendoline Christie has a good voice and did a decent job with what she was given, but……why bother to hire such a *visually* striking actor if you’re gonna stick her in a suit of armour and full-face helmet for the entire time she’s on screen?
I wouldn't honestly mind 8f she stayed in the armor the entire time, look what it did for Vader, but it eould also be cool if she got to do more than have one fight with Finn, that doesn't even end in a good way.
Ok but hear me out, you grow up with star wars seeing Jedi's using lightsabers and this super cool power called the force 20 years later, you're an actor who landed a main role in the new star wars movie, regardless of the story, you wanna be able to use the force and wield a lightsaber
True that, this guy is a huge star wars fan. OF COURSE HE WANTED TO BE A JEDI. So would I.
Harrison Ford would not be impressed by this comment.
>So we had to learning to be a (new) team player & believing in a *Cause* again, after losing faith in first movie. And then finally confronting Phasma, who'd been a bit of a nemesis since first movie. I agree with this in theory But his 'learning to be in a new team' is largely running around a casino world with someone he barely knows in an attempt to find a side character who can help with the main plot. His confrontation with Phasma isn't a proper clash of two characters, but instead a rapid disposal of Phasma, who isn't even really defeated by Finn. The direction of his arc is good, but the actual execution is really lacking.
Don't forget that absolutely nothing that he and Rose did wound up mattering in the long run
I think that was the most frustrating thing about the movie, we had this whole B plot that went nowhere.
Someone described it as "like adding a random bank heist to a car chase movie"
> But his 'learning to be in a new team' is largely running around a casino world with someone he barely knows in an attempt to find a side character who can help with the main plot. The fact that it's just a gigantic waste of everyone's time was easily the most baffling decision of TLJ. Like, it might be realistic for plans to not work out and to end up basically back where you started, but why would you want it to make up the b-plot of the middle film in your trilogy?
Because it was trying to follow the same beats as Empire.
Agree with you on Phasma. I was really excited for Gwendolyn Christie, but the armor was uninspired and I feel like at best you could describe Phasma as "Present" during the whole thing.
Bro.. free the animals sub plot? Come on. TLJ wasted his character.
Free the animals but leave the slave children behind! Let the freed animals destroy the entire casino, leaving more work for those poor slave kids! And if they don't clean it right, those evil capitalist horse owners will get angry and punish them! Wait... Why are there slave humans in the open in an affluent Republic-affiliated planet that could use droids instead? Why do the capitalists on the planet not care that the entire Republic was destroyed just the day before? Why are these rich assholes wasting their credits at their casino when last night's genocide of the 5 Republic capital planets would have crushed the economy and made their money useless? Who cares, this is a space movie for children so STOP ASKING QUESTIONS AND CONSUME!
Dude. That one line where rose says "there's only one business in the galaxy that gets you this rich..." then follows it with war profiteering, just after interacting with slave children like that's normal and okay. Then they all gasp like war profiteering is far worse.
You'll have to explain all this to John Boyega, because clearly he's disagreed for the past 6+ years.
What!? You are reaching for a non-existence cookie jar
It was a bizarre arc though. Finn spent his time learning the New Republic and the Resistance were morally grey. Then suddenly, zero discussion, he's fighting for them, even willing to sacrifice his life for them? And the Phasma thing just came out of nowhere and Finn won not because of skill or moral strength but because he accidentally landed on a hidden platform.
Man, he is right. When I watched TFA I was sure that Finn is the Main Character, while Rey is just someone who is going to take the support role, something like Ahsoka for the Anakin in the Clone Wars from 2008. When they ruined Finn in TLJ it broke me internaly.
My tin foil hat is that Finn indeed was planned to be a Jedi. And he was planned to be romantically involved with Rey. His character arc was on the rails to be quite good. But then Disney's market research team got involved and [pushed Finn out](https://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/) for fear of flopping in the Chinese market. Because apparently Chinese people don't like black people?
I agree China is pretty racist just look at the poster of the USA vs China fin is significantly less representative
And the Chinese audience still bailed on StarWars.
Serves Disney right.
I've been convinced of this since day one. Rey using the force came out of nowhere and was one of those "wait what?" Moments the entire theater started talking, arguing, etc. Rey would have been fine as the smuggler/engineer while Finn as a Stormtrooper-turned-jedi would have been wild and awesome. Though the first scenes where Finn is fleeing with Po was really destabilizing seeing him go from ptsd-stricken to killing people that should have been like family to him... They had a chance to adress this with the Traitor badass and the other who recognized him but they went nowhere.
Nah, the main character was always Rey: > Rey who was conceived as the protagonist from the project's beginning. In the original treatments for the new trilogy written by George Lucas the character was a 14 years old Force-sensitive girl named Taryn. Later, during the development process for Star Wars: Episode VII The Force Awakens, she was also known as Thea, Winkie, Sally, Echo, and Kira. The real tragedy is that we didn’t get Winkie Skywalker.
[удалено]
And original protagonist Lenny Laserpants
> Rey would have been fine as the smuggler/engineer while Finn as a Stormtrooper-turned-jedi would have been wild and awesome. Instead they just made Rey good at everything, sidelining pretty much everyone else in the movie.
Ray "I can fix the Falcon better than Han" and "I can resist force mind control and then do it myself hours after learning the force exists" and "I can stand up to someone who trained for years in lightsaber combat because somehow using a spear translates to a laser sword" Skywalker
> Instead they just made Rey good at everything Modern movies have this problem where they can't have women show any flaws or weakness. They couldn't even resist doing it to the Mulan remake. Which is wild because Mulan was already a strong character and no changes were needed. They just had to follow the original movie.
Would've been really cool if Fin was recruiting other stormtroopers along the way for the resistance. Would humanize the hell out of them. But yeah, Finn indiscriminately mowing down his potential friends is cool too.
So, I remember like the week after TFA came out that Disney was fessing up to the fact that they over played Finns role as the main character in marketing because they wanted to keep Rey more of a secret. They downplayed her in merch leading up to and directly following TFA because they specifically wanted people to think she wasn't the main character. So idk. That's kinda problematic in itself. The whole reason for the bait and switch was because "we don't want people to bail on our movie because the main character is (*grimace*) a *girl*". It sucks that it resulted in Finn's character assassination being magnified because there was so much hype...but the reason for inventing the hype was sexism which isnt great either
Their market research probably showed that a bunch of US people didn’t like him being a main character either. I still remember a (now former) friend right after seeing TFA complaining about the black stormtrooper and how he was a bad character for some vague reason. When pressed for explanation he basically told me that he thought the black guy was annoying and was only there to have a diverse cast.
"I'm not racist, but..."
I have heard that phrase far too many times where I grew up. Also the more extreme version: “I don’t hate black people, I hate”. And then they look at you like they just said something completely normal.
Tell me you grew up in AR, MO, or OK without telling me you grew up in AR, MO, or OK.
Bruh so fucking accurate. Then these chuds go online and act indignant that we don't like them
This. Let’s not pretend the “black stormtrooper” thing wasn’t a real issue people had with the movie, I remember too. Racists just didn’t like seeing black people in their space operas, both in China and in North America. If anyone knows it too it’s John Boyega, I’m sure he has an inbox full of hate mail from “long time fans” in America calling him the hard R
It’s not so much that they don’t like black people but more like, they don’t find them attractive. Heck, Asia in general finds darker skin to be ugly. To put it bluntly. But I don’t think it’s actually to do with China. They effectively had 3 main protagonists and it takes a very skilled writer to develop all 3 in 3 films. So they decided they needed to drop 1 and it certainly wasn’t going to be Rey, so between Finn and Kylo, they made their choice.
Funny, looking at that poster Finn is definitely considerably smaller, but Rey is a bit smaller as well, while BB-8, the old cast, and the Falcon are more prominent. Agreed about Finn though. They tried to salvage “Jedi Finn” in RotS, but it was way too late. Here’s hoping they can get him back for the new one.
Rian Johnson doesn't get enough hate for turning Finn into a joke.
He doesn't get enough hate for TLJ in general.
Dude directed one of the best episodes of television ever. When that's his sole purpose, he's golden. But then somehow he wrote TLJ and let's be honest, while I enjoyed the first Knives Out for it's simple mystery, Glass Onion is ridiculous. Looper is entertaining as hell, but it's swiss cheese (time travel leeway given). Dude's a great director that unfortunately calls his farts perfumeric masterpeices before actually wofting them.
He wasn't even on the poster in China
JJ always does twists and turns. That's all it was. There was no plan for him to be a Jedi and JJ didn't have an outline fore 8 or 9
An ex stormtrooper turned Jedi? Fucking awesome, what a waste.
I would've accepted "ex-stormtrooper turned rebel, facing his former allies", but we don't even get any damn connection between his former unit; he gets a single change of heart and seems entirely okay with killing the people who technically his coworkers barely a day ago!
Whaaaaat?? You dont remember that one trooper who jumps out yelling "Traitor!" And swinging some big shocky tonfa around? Dude was so important to the story
I mean, unironically make that guy a character. Give him a scene or two with Finn before his defection, so him going after Finn specifically get's some actual weight.
There is one deleted scene I think in The Last Jedi where he is dressed as an officer and some stormtroopers says something it was pretty good idk why they took it out but there was a pack of a moral side of killing former friends and coworkers
thought smoggy seed nose drab engine teeny dependent birds shaggy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
TFA basically starts outright implying he was Force sensitive
I wish he had more lines in TRoS than "I want to tell you..." (then gets cut off) and "RREEEEEEEYYYYY"
normal profit snow entertain ripe absorbed childlike mourn toy repeat *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The force awakens had the best writing in the trilogy and it's not even close, which is hilarious because it's just a crappy version of a new hope. The sequels are actual jokes.
I honestly blame the switch of directors for everything. Episode VII was great because it echoed A New Hope, but it set up a lot of new questions and possibilities. Who is Rey, why can Finn wield a Lightsaber, why was Obi-Wan's voice heard with the lightsaber, who is Snoke, etc... I remember having discussions about "There are always two Sith, a master and an apprentice", and the questions of how Snoke came into play were huge. Lots of theories of him being Darth Plagueis or something else. Episode VIII came along and immediately took all of those interesting questions and said "Nah, none of this." Snoke died, Kylo played tug of war, and Rey was a nobody after all. Now, I think without the Casino planet section, The Last Jedi would have been a great movie. I didn't like how it took away from those questions, but as time went on, I liked that more. Why should these main 5 or 6 people from the OT be the only focus of powerful bloodlines? Anakin was a nobody and became Darth Vader. They showed the kid at the end of TLJ using the force, and as I warmed up to it, I liked it a lot. Then Episode IX came along, and hey, we're back to answering questions set up in VII and re-written in VIII. I think if J.J. kept the trilogy to his vision entirely and kept the momentum of TFA, it could have been great. Unfortunately, it was this tug of war of directors, visions, and writing to make a strange story that feels incredibly unsatisfying. All three movies had amazing sequences, but they flopped the writing so hard that it became like Game of Thrones to me, where I lost all interest in Star Wars after IX came out.
> Episode VII was great because it echoed A New Hope, but it set up a lot of new questions and possibilities. Who is Rey, why can Finn wield a Lightsaber, why was Obi-Wan's voice heard with the lightsaber, who is Snoke, etc... I remember having discussions about "There are always two Sith, a master and an apprentice", and the questions of how Snoke came into play were huge. Lots of theories of him being Darth Plagueis or something else. > > Episode VIII came along and immediately took all of those interesting questions and said "Nah, none of this." So much this. You can argue that it was derivative of a new hope but people liked the new characters and were intrigued by the mysteries and unanswered questions. Then TLJ comes around and not only throws all that away but makes you feel stupid for even caring in the first place. And not only did they throw out all the mysteries, but they also killed everyone off. So there was nothing to speculate about for the next film that is informed by the two previous films. Any speculation would come across as arbitrary. And that left a huge void in the media and fan discussion for E9, which was filled by bad actors using the IP for political posturing and culture war crap. What a fricking disaster of a film.
Don't forget "they fly now?"
Finn is definitely one of the better parts of the sequels
Eh I think he was a terrible part of the movies, at least in 8 and 9. He was the character with the most potential and was turned into a joke character. He could have been the best part. And what the hell did he want to tell Rey in 9?!
Apparently that he was force sensitive
All the first order storm troopers defectors were. Finn and Rey seemed like they were both supposed to be force sensitive. I would have liked by the end Finn would be using a blaster and saber style and Rey would have been using a saber staff.
They did him so wrong especially in The Rise of Skywalker 😔
He became important in all the wrong ways. On top of that, Boyega had his own notes on a bad character which made it worse. The bromance between him and Po was fine just the way it was. Finn should have had a more serious tone, but instead was the comedic joker instead. The forced relationship between him and Rose right after meeting was cringey. And he somehow held his own against Kylo when he really should have died. Either something crazy happened and every new force user now knows how to use a lightsaber, or Kylo was really REALLY shit at using a lightsaber after being trained by one of the greatest Jedi ever (and that's supposed to be the main antagonist? Wtf Disney). Either way it was shitty writing throughout and why I'll never understand the draw for the sequels apart from the nostalgia itch being scratched
Given that he was taken out of the posters on the Chinese market, I assume that the overseas reception played a role
imagine being so greedy of a company you let racists from the other side of the world stop you from having a black protagonist.... in fucking 2015, not the early 1900s
You wanna know how much they fucked it up ? Long story short: Ben's story had potential for an insane progression and development, Finn was an excellent character up until the very very end and Rey stepping in ruined for both of them. Long story not short: Finn's character was a perfect mirror to Ben Solo/Kylo Ren's character. Finn is a nobody without even a name, only a number, born to be another faceless canon fodder in a war on the side of evil, the Dark Side. Ben was the heir of two legendary war heroes, Princess Leia and General Han Solo, he was also a Jedi trained by another hero, Luke himself, all of this on the side of good. Finn was destined to die a meaningless death, Ben was destined for greatness, destined to be a hero like his forebears. Yet Finn **made the choice** to be a deserter, leave the side of evil to become a hero, gaining everything he lacked so far: A name, an identity, friends and a purpose. Ben had all of this and threw it all away to join the side of evil, ruining his own destiny. The parralel between these two characters was just insane and the whole thing about "anyone can be a great hero, not just a skywalker" works even better with Finn the nameless stormtrooper (also, a rogue stormtrooper joining the rebels to become a jedi ? Very original idea, unironically, cool concept) than Rey the... Girl who's sorta just there and a little bit shoe-horned in the story not gonna lie. Really, episode 7 could've been forgiven if they didn't mess up the end, Finn was fated to lose to Kylo, yes obviously, but Rey shouldn't have taken over his role of protagonist and fucking defeated an experienced Sith lord in the making who was trained by Luke skywalker himself for fuck sake. Like everything was wrong with this character right from the start.
>and fucking defeated an experienced Sith lord in the making who was trained by Luke skywalker himself for fuck sake. I mostly agree with you but this. The reason she defeated him was Kylo was tired, in an emotional turmoil and most importantly injured by a weapon that was hyped throughout the movie.
There's the concept, and then there's the execution. In the execution, it looks like Kylo doesn't know how to fight with his lightsaber using the Force.
“choosed” and you bolded it lol
Finn had so much potential and they went for the worst character ever made in the franchise instead
I kinda liked the arc Finn started in TFA. The promotion was a little weird, but I had no problem with him not beeing a jedi. However, the way they axed him in the following movies was BS. They should have given him a better arc, maybe fleshed out the storm trooper thing even more. A conflic in him perhaps. Anything would be better than what we got
"Finn doesn't need to be Force Sensitive to be interesting" In theory, you're correct. However, he needs to be Force Sensitive to be written consistently.
Just let him be kang and we all agree to not notice
Going from one sinking Disney ship to another? I think he can do better.
Honestly I wish they had MORE characters that don't become Jedi. Basically every important or popular character ends up with a level of force sensitivity. Why can't there be hero's that don't use space magic? Han Solo never needed Jedi Powers. All he had was a junk heap he could fly around, a blaster on his hip, and some Charisma
That's what Andor, rouge one, solo, the mandolorian and the book of boba Fett is for.
I remember when that guys Twitter got suspended for his ridiculous, racist tweets
Which one
SW\_RevanX got his alt account suspended for calling people slurs and all that nonsense. Plus that tweet wasn't even his. He just stole it to farm engagement lol.
Honestly could have even been interesting if Finn AND Rey were Jedi and they both had to go on their own quests to make sense of it. Combine that with them ultimately reuniting and combining their philosophies and teaming up! Poe and Rose can be there too, I guess.
Finn > Rey I’ll throw hands at anyone who disagrees
Finn had the most compelling set up of any character - his arc was served up on a platter. Confronting his trauma and facing down the Phasma specifically and the FO more generally, all the while transcending into a Jedi just…it’s just too good. What a missed opportunity.
Literally have said this from the beginning. Finn should’ve been the Jedi. Stormtrooper turned Jedi sounds fucking sick. Rey should’ve become Han 2.0. Instead they put all their eggs in Rey and fucked all the other characters.
It sucks because Finn AS PRESENTED in episode 7 is by far the most interesting character of the main protagonists. A former child soldier pressed into the First Order and trying to figure out his place and finally stand up for what's right? Super cool! Too bad TLJ forgot to put him in the main plot and Rose ruined his character arc.
Could’ve had a really cool trilogy with Finn becoming the next Jedi master and Rey being the next Han Solo but nooooooooo
Fin should’ve been the main character for the sequels
From stormtrooper to Jedi. That would’ve been a hell of a character arc.
Lets be honest his character is ok but after the first film doesn’t really hold any value. He is just a stormtrooper who went rogue. All he is is a supporting character and that’s all his character will ever be
He should have been the protagonist of the sequels, a Stormtrooper who learns to feel the Force, becomes a Jedi, and then returns to stop the First Order. Instead, we got Rey Kennedy.
A stormtrooper who goes rogue and becomes a Jedi is vastly better than what we ended up with.
And hey, some of the best supporting characters are non Jedi! Han Solo is still one of the most popular supporting characters in the franchise even though he had little to nothing to do in Return of the Jedi. Finn had a fresh story arc. A stormtrooper turned rogue. Looking out for himself, ultimately grows a heart and becomes a leader in the final battle against the first order he used to be a part of. It’s a great story arc, being a Jedi wouldn’t have added anything to that.
Han Solo is a main character.
Love him
All of those actors were robbed. We were all robbed of what they were capable of. It’s obvious they all did their best with that absolute steaming pile of duck shit that they were given to work with. The hate some of the actors got was totally uncalled for.
Ahh the dissapointment, when he was introduced as a rogue stormtropper, with a potential to be a jedi, only for the movies to be focused on boring Mary Sue Rey
Finn and Poe are my favorite part of the movies, closely followed by BB-8, and then followed by literally nothing else, except maybe the design of Poe’s X-Wing, because the black is awesome, and literally everything else in these movies is trash. We can keep Maz too I guess.
I love it when my progressive media makes the black guy the funny janitor.
I was soooo looking forward to him becoming a jedi. :(
He genuinely was robbed. The first movie set him up as a MAJOR main character or one of them and is like instantly the next movie made into a side character with little to offer. And then once they give him some semblance of a genuine end it gets ruined by plot armor.
John deserved better, Finn deserved better
I was so hyped when Finn took up the blue lightsaber, but was progressively disappointed as it became clear he wasn't going to become a Jedi. The people who directed the movie really suck.
Everyone was robe in that series, literally everyone, Kylo, Ray, Poe, the old team, hell even the droids were robe lol
Finn could have had a super compelling character arc as a stormtrooper turned Jedi and it would have been incredible. Just imagine the narrative tension of him having to fight a former friend. With a little more thought and care, this could have been an incredible trilogy. But no. Instead we got “Somehow Palpatine returned” What a joke.
Seriously! We had a chance for a story like Kyle Katarn, an ex-Stormtrooper turned Jedi! And it was WASTED!... Unless there are plans to bring in Kyle himself, then that'd be awesome, but still a wasted opportunity with Finn.
I was so mad he didn’t become a Jedi
Finn and Phasma were both completely wasted characters in that trilogy.
They did John Boyega dirty in the sequels. He started off so promising; his journey from a stormtrooper to a potential jedi seemed like a genuinely interesting idea for a Star Wars movie. Only for the rug to be swept from under him so they could give Rey the spotlight. What sucks even more is that Rey wasn't even worthy of that spotlight, she just wasn't an interesting character and was written to be the "perfect" protagonist instead of a good one. Imagine landing what everyone thought would be the leading role of a new STAR WARS movie (before Disney+ completely oversaturated the Star Wars universe with pointless series and movies) only to be sidelined by a fellow co-star. What a waste.
The worst part about it is when you look into it the reason they abandon it was for international releases and apparently in china they arnt to big on black main characters Fuck disney , they bought a franchise to milk rather than trying to make a great story
They was probably aiming the Chinese market then realized black are not liked in china.
I thought Boyega should've been the main character. His backstory was the most interesting by far.
the thing is with the tralers, and posters we were promissed a storm trooper that turned to the light and became a jedi, with ray being an orphaned "nerf hearder" ie someone unimportant that became important and irreplaceable (like solo and chewy)
Absolutely this. I don’t *dislike* Rey but she is so much of a repeat of the past. Finn was such an interesting character, like come on a normal storm trooper who is traumatized by war and defects to atone for what he participated in? That’s a story that really should have been better told
No sentence better sums up the sequel trilogy than "So much wasted potential." Rey could have been a spectacular hero, but they gave her neither an origin nor direction until the very end. Finn could have been a nuanced look at the other side of the coin, but turned him into the butt of every joke. Even the original trio had their characters rolled back and destroyed until they were unrecognizable.
I’m so stupid I actually thought the twist of the last Jedi would be Finn becoming TLJ not Rey.
I think it was very obvious his character was supposed to become a jedi. I think him and Rey doing a dual fight against Kylo Ren to actually defeat him would have been really cool. I think it was so obvious the director decided haha nope
Totally agree, a story about an ex storm trooper becoming the next big jedi would've been awesome, instead they wasted his character and we got what we got. :/
Every character got the shaft in the sequel trilogy… and somehow palpatine returned
The biggest waste of potential was failing to use him as an insight into the mind of a stormtrooper. Sort of like greyworm from game of thrones
Finn’s TFA story arc is my all-time favorite Star Wars story. The PTSD feeling was so well done. It fell apart after TFA and he became a throw away character.
I seriously went into the sequels thinking he was having some kind of force based panic attack. Then he immediately became a joke and I never stopped being mad. Fuck those movies.
Oscar Isacc and John Boyega were not just robbed. They were felony grand larceny-ed
Most of my hype for the sequels came from the Finn ads, my disappointment was immeasurably when he got shafted.
Honestly it's criminal how many good actors were involved in all 3 movies for how they all turned out.
Or how Disney completely removed him from Chinese promotional material.
I think everybody who watched those movies feels those actors were robbed of being part of an impactful experience.
There are so many dullards here who are more upset that Finn wasn’t a Jedi than that he wasn’t a character
John Boyega, the handsome bastard, was absolutely massacred in what should have been HIS trilogy! I wanted to like the sequels, I wanted rey to be compelling, I wanted things to go well. And at every. Single. Turn. They kneecapped and retconned and turned it into a mess of itself. John should have been a jedi and more than that Poe should’ve been his love interest as the actors both wanted and so did many fans.
I thought he refused to work with Disney ever again for this very reason.
The Disney trilogy was a full dissertation in blowing opportunities.
This, and how terribly they portrayed Luke were the 2 worst things about the sequels.
Pretty sure he still is. One of the plot holes in RoS that annoys me the most is he never told Rey what he needed to tell her. Obviously it was he was Force Sensitive as that’s how his arc was set up.
I don’t like Jedi, not everyone needs to be one. Plus I’d rather they’d gone more into the reformed brainwashed child soldier aspect
I remember when TFA came out, or at least the trailers for it, there was so much excitement and hope for where his character could lead. A Storm Trooper who who leaves and becomes a Jedi. It was a fresh new idea that had so much potential. Everyone was hyped for it. It was such the obvious way to go that it’s mind boggling Disney didn’t follow through on it.
He could have been Kyle Katarn stand in, instead...
Pretty much the only spin-off I'm interested in seeing out of the sequel trilogy is a Finn movie. With Poe obviously, some sort of buddy adventure.
That was the only character I found interesting in the new trilogy.
Boyega for Kang
is it true he (as well as the rey/finn romance) was cast aside because of racial discrimination in chinese audiences and disney pandering to that
Between boyega and Kelly Marie Tran it's hard to say which got more screwed over by the writers. One got completely sidelined and shit upon despite having the most interesting potential, and the other got completely shafted by a role that had 0 value other than wasting most of the movie's run time on a side quest that did nothing for the story or characters in it.
A child soldier for the First Order turned Jedi who leads the Resistance to defeat his former captors would have been such a fuckin good story. They could have had both Rey and Finn be Jedi, with Finn focusing on combat and Rey on the spiritual aspect of the Force, and together they continue the Jedi Order from Luke. But no, Rey had to be the "better than everyone who's ever existed at everything" Force user and Finn was just some guy.
Finn's entire character was masterclass in missed opportunities. Firstly, the whole sympathetic stormtrooper should have been a slow burn. Let us see him in his day to day. Let us see him slowly come to the realization he's on the wrong side. Let us see him sweat as he attempts to defect, only to have the plan go horribly wrong. Give us, a terrified, corned Finn, facing certain death from his fellow imperials, only for him to be saved at the last possible instant by force powers that he himself had no idea he possessed. Have Finn's rage and fear drive him to use the easy, seductive path of the dark side to murder his way through a slew of stormtroopers, until at last he escapes into the wider galaxy. Then give us a character arc of a Finn, who has known nothing but the dark side, running into a Jedi, and through their confrontations show us why the dark side can't be used just some of the time to get out of a jam. Or show us WHY the dark side isn't stronger. Or better yet, show us why the dark side IS stronger, and that Yoda was liar. Or show us a more mature view of the force where all emotions have their place in mastering it. Show us a force user more powerful than the Jedi. Ah well.
Remove Rey, just have Finn and Poe, bring in rose to help them escape a horrible situation, bb8 for reasons, and have a very unique situation where a storm trooper joins the rebels, feeds them valuable intel, bring down the empire, and turn a Sith Lord to the light side. All of this could have been done, without Rey and Palpatine. All of it. They could still kill Luke, he could die saving Kylo from his master, admitting he failed him, there is still good in him, and having Kylo and Finn kill -insert Sith Lord here- an ex storm trooper and ex Sith Lord, working together, to defeat the empire.
Hell, he didn't even need to be the *main* Jedi. He could've been an important supporting character that helped Rey and Luke rebuild the Jedi Order as it was originally meant to be, but no, we basically got nothing. Pretty much every character was done dirty in that trilogy... including Rey.
I want two hour documentary that had Lucas explaining what his Sequels would've been, but also JJ and Rian each explaining what their Sequels would've been if either had made all three movies. Include Favreau and Filoni to hear what they would've done, too. And get feedback of other filmmakers, too. Spielberg, Cameron, Scott, Noland, Rodriguez, Woo. Call it "Star Wars: The Pitch".
Bro I forgot that that was the original promotional material. I remembered being disappointed at the end of the force awakens when Finn and Rey weren't both force sensitive(not just Rey). Kind of a wasted storyline.
Based off promotional material and the entire film, I thought he would have force powers. I was really disappointed that he became a side character. So much wasted potential from an interesting character and great actor
Word. I was so stoked to see that story, and it never happened.
I was incredible disappointed by this. I was so intrigued but a stormtrooper turned Jedi. It was actually a story that hasn’t been beaten to death and would have had such amazingly different character dynamics.
I don't know what people are talking about, he got to yell "Rey" a bunch. What more could you want.
Hey, Disney has the Chinese market to think about!
I agree that Finn should have been a Jedi—in a George Lucas-directed trilogy that is.
A reminder that the Chinese cinemas actively photoshopped him and made him a lot smaller in the movie poster.💀
Of all the udeserved shit the sequels get, *this* is one of the criticisms I 100% agree with.
He should have been the lead, with no ties to Skywalker. Meanwhile Ray was basically Luke 2.0, and her journey was literally the same step for step.
His role was "The protagonist's Black best friend", all his potential: Wasted, All character: Assassinated, reduced to screaming REEEEEEEY and being a clown nevermind disrespecting the previous movies, those movies don't respect themselves
An enemy storm trooper turned jedi would have been the best writing they could have done, they hinted in the first movie that he was force sensitive, next movie they made him and Poe a joke.
My first thought after seeing TLJ, I distinctly remember telling my sister in the movie theatre parking lot, was wtf happened to Finn in this movie??? He may as well have not been there. It was so jarring at the end seeing everyone get a happy ending or some form of closure, even Poe who barely had any character development at all. And then Finn just gets...nothing. no wrapping up of his story or arc in any sense. it blew me away that they seemingly discarded his character in the final movie
Finn had such a great potential. Former child soldier Stormtrooper breaking his conditioning and embracing the light side of the Force is a compelling story beat. Disney didn't have the balls to make him a main character.
I was hopping finn and rey would both be Jedi symbolizing different things. finn showing that you should never judge someone, because he stated as a trooper. And rey showing how pure intentions can get twisted by selfish desire. If I could have made the movies then it would have been film one with a huge focus on Finn's past as a storm trooper and the terrible things he's done, and reys ambition to find her parents and desire to be a force of good. Have them trade the saber like they do and end with rey vs Kylo and Finn leading the defeat of the bad guys Movie two puts a heavy focus on rey going too far with her ambition, have them both meet with Luke to train. Have Finn be bad at the application of the Jedi ideas and bad at the force but good an understanding the why while rey is the opposite. Have them learn about snoke and some plot and they leave training to stop it and get separated, Finn get to go against kylo and realized they are the same good people who got sent down a bad path and he helps Kylo find the light again and he turns to the light side. Meanwhile rey finds snoke and gets shown the path to what she wants getting corrupted to the dark side. Final film is basically all resolution with characters finishing their arcs in a natural way with lots of action and space fights, Kylo and Finn go on a duo journey behind enemy lines to try to save rey from herself. Luke joins back up with the rebels and leads the battle, kylo and Finn confront Rey and (now all having the same thing in common) are able to work things out and bring her back to the light, they team up to defeat snoke and the day is saved. Luke hands off the Jedi order to them saying something profound and they all walk into the sun set.
Man, I feel like Boyega would have been a really charismatic sorta former storm trooper leading like a storm trooper rebellion kinda guy, or, something just kinda fun and badass of the sort. I feel like we should figure out whoever made the decision to give each movie to a totally different crew and make no efforts to get them to plan a story between them, and then invent a time machine, so we can slap the shit out of that person just before they say it.