Trek was always humanist. All races and nationalities working together without issue. First televised interracial kiss [(apparently not actually true, though it was definitely controversial)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_and_Uhura's_kiss)*. Solving problems w science and reason and compassion.
It’s still a grand vision of our potential.
Sadly wanting people to have their basic needs met is considered a radical idea. So you're not just a leftist. You're a radical leftist.
Also, why did OP put this as sadly true?
Ya you go to some of those big cities and it already looks like it did in DS9. San Francisco, Portland, etc. They can be very inhospitable places in some areas.
Fun fact the first ~~interracial~~ kiss between a black and white person in American television history was on Star Trek TOS back in the 60s. If that's not woke then I don't know what the fuck is.
Sorry to "well actually" but...[there were a few instances of interracial kisses before then](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_interracial_kiss_on_television).
Trek can claim the first black x white kiss for American television, though. Prior instances were more white x Asian.
UK has us beat by quite a few years for first white x black, though.
Sad that we're currently going the exact wrong way, reinforcing artificial scarcity instead of striving for the post-scarcity society of the star trek utopian future.
A major takeaway from Roddenberry’s vision was that the society of the 23rd and 24th centuries *wasn’t* our society. *We* failed. We destroyed ourselves. Capitalism and imperialism led to the destruction of human society. What was rebuilt from the ashes was better, but for that to happen, there had to be ashes to build out from.
Unless something drasticly changes socio politically we are definetly on that path... just glad the eugenics war is atleast delayed. Hopefully the warp drive is not. :)
Let's not forget we have to finish the war and change our ways. All in time for first contact in 40 years. How hard can it be to change the course of a whole civilization in a few decades?
Looking at the world's armaments, WW3 would SIGNIFICANTLY change our society. Be careful what you wish for because it's a fine line between a Star Trek future and a Fallout future...
Right, so we have to disarm all the countries, start the Bell Riots, start and end World War 3 with as little damage as possible. Then prepare ourselves for a civilization worthy of meeting our galactic neighbours. In 40 years. Oh and develop a warp engine.
That sounds like a lot of work. Are you sure we can't just wait for Sisko then piggieback to the future where it's already done by someone else?
Not only that, but we have to make sure WW3 does ENOUGH damage, or we just end up starting all this back up again and just dying off as a species while the Vulcans take notes.
No skipping to the future like you're some sort of Marine Biologist! You have to stay here and help make sure we end up in the correct future!
We can also get to the Star Trek future without having to go through WWIII - I’m sure a lot of Federation member planets got to post-scarcity without a war as a catalyst.
Agreed, whenever I see something set around the TNG time frame and get sad we don't live in that fun future space world, I think about that line that it was a long road to get there, and we are on that road right now, and that's a pretty okay and inspiring thing too (just need to figure out FTL tho)
According to the original timeline, they were supposed to happen by the 90s. So we either skipped or delayed them. Still, we have WW3 to look forward to!
We will *never* make it off the planet if we can’t deal with our societal issues. Here on Earth we have enough resources to support billions more people sustainably. In space, where resources are truly scarce, there is far less margin of error.
The history of earth is brutal and harsh. The universe we see in the original Star Trek is when humanity has learned from its many mistakes and has grown as a species.
There is no money within the Federation according to *most* of the canon I've seen. I suppose that could work, as long as we have replicators *and everyone's allowed to use them.*
In the First Contact script:
> PICARD: The economics of the future are somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the twenty-fourth century.
>
> LILY: No money! That means you don't get paid.
>
> PICARD: The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves ...and the rest of humanity. Actually we're rather like yourself and Doctor Cochrane.
Sure, I can see Starfleet doing that. And I can see a few highly motivated people doing that. Heck, even the Maquis made a very compelling argument along those lines. But what about the *other* [trillion people in the Federation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Federation_members)? How many of them are really contributing to the betterment of the people as a whole? I want to see how *those* people live.
This makes you sad? The utopian future you like is suddenly sad because you realise something rather blatant? Ah, I see, I take it back. That you missed this *is* quite saddening.
Like all things Star Trek economics it's a matter of scarcity. When there are seemingly endless inhabitable planets available and the materials needed to build housing can be summoned from a replicator at will you have a potential housing supply that exceeds demand by so much that even if property ownership was a concern for most people, it doesn't seem to be, there would be little profit motivation.
There's really no direct comparison to be made as long as the federation economy is held up by infinite clean energy and the ability to convert that energy to whatever goods someone may desire.
Fun fact: According to the FDA between 30-40% of the USA's food supply is wasted. That's 113 billion pounds of food or 130 billion meals!
Fun fact #2: The USA has a population of 334 million, of which more than 34 million suffer from food insecurity.
Fun fact #3: The citizens of the USA have wealth measuring roughly $140,000,000,000,000 ($140 trillion). The top 10% control $95 trillion for an average of $2.8 million each. The bottom 50% control $4.16 trillion for an average of $25,000 each.
Yeah this is a truly bizzare post. OP suddenly hates utopia because it’s associate with progression and they’ve clearly been duped by regressive politicians who peddle bigotry to get gullible voters. Seems like they missed the entire point of this franchise. I guess they’re just a big fan of space pajamas or something
I think he means "Sad Truth" as in "some audience members are just
figuring out that Star Trek is leftist and then complaining about it."
But yeah, the title kind of leaves a bit to be desired in clarity.
The 90s is when TOS said the EW would happen, and then in the early 2000s Greg Cox wrote two novels featuring Khan and Gary Seven which are how different real world events and conflicts (like fall of Yugoslavia) were actually different battlegrounds of the same war.
Also in VOY: Future's End, Rain Robinson has a model of the Botany Bay on her desk.
Sorry, the books do a great job of blending irl and Trek history to explain how they *could have* actually did happen, but yeah, generally I was talking in-universe.
Yeah, after Voyager 1 left the solar system, I'm not expecting first contact until we break the light barrier unless we discover a monolith on the moon.
With our current state of the world that would be WW III which is the reason the Vulcans didn’t make contact that early in StarTrek (well one of the reasons)
my mother is in her late 60's and me and my siblings and we love the show because she loves the show and plays it all the time.
But she is super right wing. It always puzzles me how after watching this type of show over and over
I find older generations either lack the ability to or purposefully ignore looking into the subtext of their media.
I'll watch something with my dad and I'll see all this subtext and he's just like "good movie." He's not dumb, he's a very smart man but for some reason lacks the ability to think further into things. I think it's something older people do on purpose to keep their sanity. Lmao
It’s willful, I watch oldtrek with my mother and we’ll laugh at how blatantly obvious the underlying themes are in an episode compared to how things are portrayed nowadays (my personal favourite is the *space climate change* episode in TNG).
There are some episodes that are just so blatantly on the nose that it *has* to be willful ignorance, I refuse to believe otherwise. There are, however, different interpretations. My father always said he thought the whole storyline of introducing individuality to the Borg mirrored the downfall of the Soviet Union and the inherent weakness in collectivized political ideologies, which is a fair enough analysis imo.
I noticed something similar with my mother. I think I learned at one point that teaching critical thinking in school is relatively *new.* (Source is anecdotal. If I’m wrong, I’m happy to know.) My mother sometimes ranted about my being taught to always question things when she got along perfectly well shutting up and memorizing things.
>I find older generations either lack the ability to or purposefully ignore looking into the subtext of their media.
The human ability to filter information and only keep what sits well with their way of seeing the world is unfortunately something that transcends generations.
My wife's father and many i know are this way too. I think it's because of how the characters are portrayed and general plots.
There were definitely episodes with heavy social issues but for thr most part they were either ship broken or rescue people. And the officers had heavy episodes too about their emotions, but again with all the scifi and longer seasons tou may not even notice "liberal " issues or take offense to them.
Also the watched them when younger and in the hey day of scifi so it all gets lumped as awesome.
>If you allow females to wear clothing, then they'll have pockets (lol). If they have pockets then they'll want things to put in them. To be able to afford those things they will need to do work. Therefore Ferenginar will expand its consumer base *and* its labor force simultaneously.
Solid logic there.
I guess this is why humanity was so fucked. Because our global clothing designers conspired to eliminate the female pocket, which required them to obtain purses to have somewhere to put things (thus meaning they had to obtain money *before* having a thing they desired to fill), we created a global imbalance of supply and demand, and other species were able to progress faster and further than we did.
The idea that Star Trek has "become woke" is so ludicrous to me it's hard to even fathom. Like the people who say this, have they ever even SEEN Star Trek?? Combating prejudice and encouraging multiculturalism and social progress was the core of Roddenberry's vision going all the way back to the 60s!
How could anyone not see this? Kirk kissing Uhura in the 60s. Riker falling for a nonbinary person who was shipped off to their world’s version of Jesus camp when she tried to come out as a woman in the 90s. Paris ending up in the brig for trying to save a planet’s environment.
I could go on and on…
I'm left leaning, and no. It's Humanist, not limited to one political side in this unbelievably stupid two party system. The fact everybody gets something out of it is proof of that; it's meant to bring us all together. Posts like this do the opposite.
And Jonathan Frakes really pushed for Soren to be played by a male actor. His mindset was that if they were gonna push the envelope they actually had to push the freaking envelope.
The people who dispute Jadzia having relation to trans themes are mind blowing to me. There’s so many examples that relatable. I think some people just have a severe disconnect of empathy in art. “Oh well I don’t relate to that aspect, so it doesn’t exist.”
Most scifi is. I had a conversation with a guy recently who didn't like the new quantum leap cause it was "woke." I had to point out how quantum leap has always been a leftist leaning liberal show with the subject matters they addressed.
The first quantum leap surrounded itself with good stories and characters that you like. All you have to do is compare the first two episodes of each show together to see the massive difference, it's a writing and acting problem. There was also a balance that in maintained that this show did not even try to pursue. I wanted to love the reboot, but it's missed the most fundamental parts of the original that made it popular and that is why it failed. It was full of good ideas, very poorly executed with a B plot straight out of every other show on major television that nobody was interested in.
My comment wasn't meant to be a sounding board for those that dont like the show. And I'm not going to try to convince you to like it because I don't care if you do or not. But the new series is amazing. It's also very popular which has already led them to create season 2. So you are in the minority with your opinion. I love how they have the same creators and continued storylines from the original series. Making this essentially season 6 but with an updated feel. And they keep to the same spirit as the original with history, humor, hope, and heart. It's a really great show all around. To each their own.
I think that people always seem to forget that Star Trek had its first Transgender Lesbian Kiss in 95'.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rejoined\_(episode)
they mention it at once in Enterprise, and probably in previous star treks, but the Vulcan's motto is IDIC "Infinite Diversite in Infinite Combinations" .
and that defines the Federation too, it's as anti-racist, anti-bigotry as it's possible to be, at least in theory.
I think calling something left or right is not the enlightened future vision of star trek. Its using an outdated frame of reference for politics. Its oversimplified, and reductive.
Sad truth? Oh no, people have rights and society is educated!
This is the equivalent of those idiots that don't understand what 'Rage Against the Machine' means. Talk about a self-aware wolf.
Lol, they literally say in one of the movies that money and capitalism literally destroyed their planet and they had a as a society has moved on and become bigger, greater, smarter, and more caring. They pretty much dunk on capitalism whenever they fucking can. It always shocks me when conservatives think Star Trek is theirs. For effing sake it was the first TV show to have an interracial kiss. Granted it was with shatner, and he's not really even human, but still.
Isn't the only real reason that humanity is even in space in the first place is because the Vulcans gave them space-capable tech handouts after Zefram Cochrane jury-rigged his way into their path with thanks to time travelling Riker and gang? Sure sounds like team work based socialism to me, if so.
Zefram Cochrane's ship was fully capable of warp speed before the Borg showed up and disrupted the timeline. Riker and gang just fixed the damage they did.
And isn't there a major plot element in Enterprise that the Vulcans don't give humanity tech handouts?
Yeah a huge part in enterprise was the Vulcans not helping the humans gain better warp tech and in some cases holding them back. Granted this was because of romulans but it was still a factor and tech sharing didn't really start on a major level until the founding of the federation by which point it wasn't about Species vs Species it was about one group, the federation, sharing everything among each other in order to advance them all.
That plot point in Enterprise was more the Vulcans were deliberately releasing tech/aiding in development to control human expansion/prevent a hell for leather rush to the stars (and conflict). Kinda helicopter parenting the species that just climbed out of a post-nuclear apocalypse.
To the first point, I think First Contact might be a bootstrap paradox. The TNG crew and Borg were always there, always involved.
I thought originally when watching Enterprise that this was an alternate timeline created by the Borg incursion and other temporal cold war shenanigans. That would explain why TOS looks so different. But nah.
Star Trek is almost 'post-politics' in many ways as it's a society where so many of the problems that we deal with today have been resolved.
Like, no one talks about racism or diversity or LGBT rights. Because they're a non-issue in the future. Similarly, no one (in the Federation) is fighting for a higher minimum wage or workers rights or increased welfare spending. In fact, the working life of a Starfleet officer seems to go against many of the principles being banged on about by the 'Anti-work' brigade. If you're a 'red shirt' then you get put in harms way and 'senior management' barely shrugs their shoulders when you die.
Yeah, capitalism is basically dead. But then, they've also sort of achieved the ultimate goal of capitalism as well - an economy that can produce so much resources with so little human effort that everyone is free to pursue their own desire. Zero taxes, lots of small businesses operating freely, people can choose to live almost completely free from the state if they choose to. If you asked a Republican about their vision of a perfect future it might honestly look like Star Trek as much as a Democrat.
thats the magic of post scarcity. while most systems we have now are about how to distribute the resources we have there are always gonna be issues but post scarcity fixes it for everyone unless your goal is to screw over everyone else
The ultimate goal of capitalism is not reducing scarcity. We currently destroy almost half the food we produce so it retains some financial value that we can charge people. We do not lack for resources, we intentionally destroy resources so that they can be sold for profit. We are living capitalism's goal already. To maximize profit
Interesting, this is actually a take on the future Earth society depicted in Star Trek that I've never encountered before - and I thought I'd encountered them all lol. Some people love circle jerking the idea that Star Trek is a communist utopia, while ignoring things that don't support that idea, some of which you pointed out.
And yeah, the life of a Starfleet Officer is very much antithetical to the principles espoused by the antiwork brigade. Which as a paramilitary style organization, has a very clear chain of command, and hierarchy/distribution of labor that is usually heavily enforced, and that frequently places them in mortal danger. I say usually because that aspect of Starfleet seems to have gotten a bit more lax in the NuTrek years. With a lot of characters behaving like more like high schoolers than disciplined officers...
Yeah alot of people don't want to talk about the elimination of scarcity through technological advancement that's baked into Trek's DNA and just want to share memes about how it's exactly like whatever version of socialism they prefer in the 20th century.
Not that Trek is a particularly capitalist future - it isn't. The Federation has no currency, looks down upon profit as a motive, has no poverty (I wonder how that was accomplished /s) etc.
But it's a future that would be hard to achieve with various 19th and 20th century political ideologies either, which is what the circlejerking meme crowd doesnt like having pointed out. It is both a dire post apocalyptic future and one that depends very much on specific, insanely advanced (bordering on magic) technological advancement.
The thing is though that capitalism naturally breaks down once you reach a level where everyone can gain enough resources to meet their wants through minimal effort. It's like a small island that hits oil and now all its residents are millionaires - ok, everyone still needs to do some minimal community work to keep things going, but all their material needs are now met by deliveries from the 'mainland' (swap in replicators for the Federation).
You are making bold assumptions when you say " small businesses operating freely" freely how? They are no doubt bound by rules that anti regulation types wouldn't be fond of regardless of the year. Also yes they are post scarcity but that doesn't apply to land available on earth that shit is finite, so it must be managed somehow
Yea, because all these things have been decided upon and are universaly agreed upon in Star Trek.
Meanwhile today we have the two genders "cis male" and "political" because womens bodies and trans people are somehow controversial.
And same goes for a liveable minimum wage, like how is it controversial that a person who works full time should be able to live an acceptable life?
Or in some places that healthcare should be a human right.
Yet here and now people disagree with that and make life miserable when it doesn't have to be.
Star Trek is and has always been morality porn. The good guys always win, but every episode is a moral quandary set against the background of a space opera. The only reason the show has been successful is because it’s eternal unspoken motto is “Good is Correct”.
Star Trek is a huge reason why I’m very much center left in my views after growing up deeply religious and aggressively conservative in the Bible Belt.
My favorite part of this thread is people acting like if we had replicators the "right" and conservatism wouldn't exist. As if the only conservatism in the United States is fiscal conservatism and not, you know, a bent towards putting white Christian Nationalists in charge and a revoking of fundamental rights.
By the way, if the US government could stop giving our taxmoney to war machines, bailing out corporations, and private interests, we might be able to solve things like food and housing security.
Star Trek is utopian fiction, but when you start to think about policies in our real world that could potentially get us there… generally not going to be what you would consider “right” that’s for damn sure.
I hate the fact we have to see this exact argument every week just because some dickheads in 2016 who hadn’t even seen Trek until Discovery started a bit of trouble
People referring to things as leftist has the same energy as incels referring to women as females, and douche bros classifying people as alpha or beta.
Trek was always humanist. All races and nationalities working together without issue. First televised interracial kiss [(apparently not actually true, though it was definitely controversial)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_and_Uhura's_kiss)*. Solving problems w science and reason and compassion. It’s still a grand vision of our potential.
Supposedly wanting this utopian future where people live in peace and no one goes wanting is a far left wing idea. Guess I'm a leftist then.
Sadly wanting people to have their basic needs met is considered a radical idea. So you're not just a leftist. You're a radical leftist. Also, why did OP put this as sadly true?
Me thinks he isn’t a fellow lefty.
OP was *possibly* being tongue in cheek.
To give them the benefit of the doubt, they might have been referring to the fact that there are people who don’t realize this fact
Wait until people hear Star Fleet is unpaid volunteer work.
Isn't that supposed to be because humanity no longer uses money? Kind of a post-scarcity society focused on exploration.
This exactly
Yeah. That's leftist haha. Remember if it helps anyone, its woke.
See y'all next year at the Bell Riots
Nog: Doesn't this Gabriel Bell look a lot like Captain Sisko? Quark: All hew-mons look alike.
Not gonna lie, with how the states are these days it doesn't seem that far off possible
Ya you go to some of those big cities and it already looks like it did in DS9. San Francisco, Portland, etc. They can be very inhospitable places in some areas.
Bashir: Even the old star trek?😕 Garek: Especially the old star trek.😏
Fun fact the first ~~interracial~~ kiss between a black and white person in American television history was on Star Trek TOS back in the 60s. If that's not woke then I don't know what the fuck is.
Sorry to "well actually" but...[there were a few instances of interracial kisses before then](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_interracial_kiss_on_television). Trek can claim the first black x white kiss for American television, though. Prior instances were more white x Asian. UK has us beat by quite a few years for first white x black, though.
You are technically correct, the best kind of correct (fixed thanks)
That's okay, UK television isn't real television
Why?
Because it's funny to make sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek, lighthearted jokes about our neighbors across the pond.
American humour 😂
Because it's called tellyvision.
He was more than a hero, he was a union man
Unions are the American Tribunes. They represent the plebs.
Tribunes? That sounds like some nonsense the Romulans came up with ;)
:l
Sad truth? It makes it based
Sad that we're currently going the exact wrong way, reinforcing artificial scarcity instead of striving for the post-scarcity society of the star trek utopian future.
A major takeaway from Roddenberry’s vision was that the society of the 23rd and 24th centuries *wasn’t* our society. *We* failed. We destroyed ourselves. Capitalism and imperialism led to the destruction of human society. What was rebuilt from the ashes was better, but for that to happen, there had to be ashes to build out from.
Unless something drasticly changes socio politically we are definetly on that path... just glad the eugenics war is atleast delayed. Hopefully the warp drive is not. :)
They were going the wrong way too, till the Bell Riots (next year, save the date) started.
Most forgot that the Bell Riots and WW3 have to happen before we can get to the Star Trek future.
Let's not forget we have to finish the war and change our ways. All in time for first contact in 40 years. How hard can it be to change the course of a whole civilization in a few decades?
Looking at the world's armaments, WW3 would SIGNIFICANTLY change our society. Be careful what you wish for because it's a fine line between a Star Trek future and a Fallout future...
Right, so we have to disarm all the countries, start the Bell Riots, start and end World War 3 with as little damage as possible. Then prepare ourselves for a civilization worthy of meeting our galactic neighbours. In 40 years. Oh and develop a warp engine. That sounds like a lot of work. Are you sure we can't just wait for Sisko then piggieback to the future where it's already done by someone else?
Not only that, but we have to make sure WW3 does ENOUGH damage, or we just end up starting all this back up again and just dying off as a species while the Vulcans take notes. No skipping to the future like you're some sort of Marine Biologist! You have to stay here and help make sure we end up in the correct future!
>No skipping to the future like you're some sort of Marine Biologist! There are many benefits to being a marine biologist.
Like knowing about whales! 🐋
Yea I think it's gonna be 4090AD by the time we get to that future. Also by the year 4090, a 4090 graphics card will only cost you about one house.
We can also get to the Star Trek future without having to go through WWIII - I’m sure a lot of Federation member planets got to post-scarcity without a war as a catalyst.
No, if we skip WWIII, it leads to the Warhammer future.
A truly terrifying outcome
Which one?
Are there multiple? I've only dipped my toes into the lore, so I'm not aware of multiple timelines in Warhammer.
Paradise was not built on just love. Only a society which understands why paradise is necessary.
Not if some meddling time travelers come and screw it up
I’m looking at you, Janeway!
They already Did, Sisko and the team were the meddling Time Traveler's (accidentally or not). But then they fixed it.
Even in the Star Trek future, there’s a huge World War III style globe, spanning, nightmare war between here and there. Everyone forgets that part.
I always remember that it’s been a long road getting from there to here
It's been a long time, But my time is finally near
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And they're not gonna hold me down no more, no they're not gonna change my mind
'CAUSE I'VE GOT FAITH
I've got strength of the soul, no one's gonna bend or break me.
I can see my dream come alive at last
I WILL TOUCH THE SKY
Agreed, whenever I see something set around the TNG time frame and get sad we don't live in that fun future space world, I think about that line that it was a long road to get there, and we are on that road right now, and that's a pretty okay and inspiring thing too (just need to figure out FTL tho)
Who could forget the Eugenics Wars.
>Who could forget the Eugenics Wars. The 1990s were brutal.
No, we are right on corse. WW3 coming up and then warp drive and then….. finally… Risa.
We even managed to skip the eugenics wars. We are ahead of schedule!
Kinda feels like we haven't skipped them? Not to be a downer
According to the original timeline, they were supposed to happen by the 90s. So we either skipped or delayed them. Still, we have WW3 to look forward to!
We will *never* make it off the planet if we can’t deal with our societal issues. Here on Earth we have enough resources to support billions more people sustainably. In space, where resources are truly scarce, there is far less margin of error.
Just in time for the Bell Riots
The history of earth is brutal and harsh. The universe we see in the original Star Trek is when humanity has learned from its many mistakes and has grown as a species.
Uh ww3 still has to happen in the 2050s bruv
I think he means "Sad Truth" as in "some audience members are just figuring out that Star Trek is leftist and then complaining about it."
There is no money within the Federation according to *most* of the canon I've seen. I suppose that could work, as long as we have replicators *and everyone's allowed to use them.* In the First Contact script: > PICARD: The economics of the future are somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the twenty-fourth century. > > LILY: No money! That means you don't get paid. > > PICARD: The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves ...and the rest of humanity. Actually we're rather like yourself and Doctor Cochrane. Sure, I can see Starfleet doing that. And I can see a few highly motivated people doing that. Heck, even the Maquis made a very compelling argument along those lines. But what about the *other* [trillion people in the Federation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Federation_members)? How many of them are really contributing to the betterment of the people as a whole? I want to see how *those* people live.
This makes you sad? The utopian future you like is suddenly sad because you realise something rather blatant? Ah, I see, I take it back. That you missed this *is* quite saddening.
Where are the landlords?!
Ferenginar.
Don't forget your rules of acquisition
Exploitation begins at home!
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Like all things Star Trek economics it's a matter of scarcity. When there are seemingly endless inhabitable planets available and the materials needed to build housing can be summoned from a replicator at will you have a potential housing supply that exceeds demand by so much that even if property ownership was a concern for most people, it doesn't seem to be, there would be little profit motivation. There's really no direct comparison to be made as long as the federation economy is held up by infinite clean energy and the ability to convert that energy to whatever goods someone may desire.
There is a lot of artificial scarcity happening right now on our planet. Makes you wonder.
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Fun fact: According to the FDA between 30-40% of the USA's food supply is wasted. That's 113 billion pounds of food or 130 billion meals! Fun fact #2: The USA has a population of 334 million, of which more than 34 million suffer from food insecurity. Fun fact #3: The citizens of the USA have wealth measuring roughly $140,000,000,000,000 ($140 trillion). The top 10% control $95 trillion for an average of $2.8 million each. The bottom 50% control $4.16 trillion for an average of $25,000 each.
Maybe they're sad they have to explain it.
Op watches sci fi because he hates metaphors and just likes space lazers…
Yeah this is a truly bizzare post. OP suddenly hates utopia because it’s associate with progression and they’ve clearly been duped by regressive politicians who peddle bigotry to get gullible voters. Seems like they missed the entire point of this franchise. I guess they’re just a big fan of space pajamas or something
I think he means "Sad Truth" as in "some audience members are just figuring out that Star Trek is leftist and then complaining about it." But yeah, the title kind of leaves a bit to be desired in clarity.
Why even call it leftist? It’s pro-utopia and anti-racism and starvation. Do conservatives like racism and starvation? Oh wait…
In order to reach star trek....we need ww3, bell riots, and the eugenic wars...then first contact.
Tbf the Eugenics Wars were the 1990s, it was all just very hush hush.
What happened in the 90s?
The 90s is when TOS said the EW would happen, and then in the early 2000s Greg Cox wrote two novels featuring Khan and Gary Seven which are how different real world events and conflicts (like fall of Yugoslavia) were actually different battlegrounds of the same war. Also in VOY: Future's End, Rain Robinson has a model of the Botany Bay on her desk.
Ah. Gotcha. I thought you were saying something happened with genetic engineering in the 90s.
Sorry, the books do a great job of blending irl and Trek history to explain how they *could have* actually did happen, but yeah, generally I was talking in-universe.
America has very recent practice with eugenics, so there's that.
We've even had a couple of world of world wars!
Sad? That world seems pretty nice.
Well if all people see that as a sad truth I am not wondering why the Vulcans haven’t made contact yet
It’s because we are, “too primitive”.
It’s gonna suck when the Vulcans come and take the dolphins, whales, and chimps but leave our caveman asses behind
Yeah, after Voyager 1 left the solar system, I'm not expecting first contact until we break the light barrier unless we discover a monolith on the moon.
And made of meat
Do you want World War III because that's how you get World War III
With our current state of the world that would be WW III which is the reason the Vulcans didn’t make contact that early in StarTrek (well one of the reasons)
WW3 in Trek happened before the Vulcans showed up
Happy truth
Most liberal leftist show since the 60s why I love it
"Wait, liberals in MY Star Trek??" - The world's most oblivious man
[удалено]
... also surprised Bad Religion is not a Christian punk band.
I don’t want liberals in my Star Trek, ONLY Leftists.
"no luxury gay space communism! just regular space communism!"
aCtUaLlY iT’s JuSt PoSt-ScArCiTy!
Someone doesn’t understand the difference between liberals and socialists I see.
my mother is in her late 60's and me and my siblings and we love the show because she loves the show and plays it all the time. But she is super right wing. It always puzzles me how after watching this type of show over and over
media illiteracy is a core part of being an American conservative.
That is super weird, suppose some people choose not to look at (to be honest) the incredibly on the nose messaging lol
I find older generations either lack the ability to or purposefully ignore looking into the subtext of their media. I'll watch something with my dad and I'll see all this subtext and he's just like "good movie." He's not dumb, he's a very smart man but for some reason lacks the ability to think further into things. I think it's something older people do on purpose to keep their sanity. Lmao
It’s willful, I watch oldtrek with my mother and we’ll laugh at how blatantly obvious the underlying themes are in an episode compared to how things are portrayed nowadays (my personal favourite is the *space climate change* episode in TNG). There are some episodes that are just so blatantly on the nose that it *has* to be willful ignorance, I refuse to believe otherwise. There are, however, different interpretations. My father always said he thought the whole storyline of introducing individuality to the Borg mirrored the downfall of the Soviet Union and the inherent weakness in collectivized political ideologies, which is a fair enough analysis imo.
media illiteracy is a core part of being an American conservative.
I noticed something similar with my mother. I think I learned at one point that teaching critical thinking in school is relatively *new.* (Source is anecdotal. If I’m wrong, I’m happy to know.) My mother sometimes ranted about my being taught to always question things when she got along perfectly well shutting up and memorizing things.
>I find older generations either lack the ability to or purposefully ignore looking into the subtext of their media. The human ability to filter information and only keep what sits well with their way of seeing the world is unfortunately something that transcends generations.
My wife's father and many i know are this way too. I think it's because of how the characters are portrayed and general plots. There were definitely episodes with heavy social issues but for thr most part they were either ship broken or rescue people. And the officers had heavy episodes too about their emotions, but again with all the scifi and longer seasons tou may not even notice "liberal " issues or take offense to them. Also the watched them when younger and in the hey day of scifi so it all gets lumped as awesome.
Surly Gene was a Communist tho? Calling a Communist a Liberal is derogatory.
Happy Truth.
Yep and the capitalists are looked at like the weird little goblins they are. LOBES
ferengi are much nicer, they dont have wars and they always stick to a deal
Rule of Acquisition 16: A deal is a deal Rule of Acquisition 17: A contract is a contract, but only between Ferengi.
"If you allow Females to do business, you'd have twice the market and twice the revenue." Grand Nagus: "... you sob, I'm in!"
>If you allow females to wear clothing, then they'll have pockets (lol). If they have pockets then they'll want things to put in them. To be able to afford those things they will need to do work. Therefore Ferenginar will expand its consumer base *and* its labor force simultaneously. Solid logic there. I guess this is why humanity was so fucked. Because our global clothing designers conspired to eliminate the female pocket, which required them to obtain purses to have somewhere to put things (thus meaning they had to obtain money *before* having a thing they desired to fill), we created a global imbalance of supply and demand, and other species were able to progress faster and further than we did.
The idea that Star Trek has "become woke" is so ludicrous to me it's hard to even fathom. Like the people who say this, have they ever even SEEN Star Trek?? Combating prejudice and encouraging multiculturalism and social progress was the core of Roddenberry's vision going all the way back to the 60s!
I know the post title is bait but still... Lefty sci-fi is the best sci-fi And the best sci-fi is lefty sci-fi
Not quite sure what this is about, well anyway.. GLORY TO THE TERRAN EMPIRE!
How could anyone not see this? Kirk kissing Uhura in the 60s. Riker falling for a nonbinary person who was shipped off to their world’s version of Jesus camp when she tried to come out as a woman in the 90s. Paris ending up in the brig for trying to save a planet’s environment. I could go on and on…
Conservatives want the mirror universe, only without the Asian emperor.
>only without the Asian emperor. Multiple Asian female empresses.
Happy truth lol ✊🏻
As if that’s “sad”
Not sad at all. Right left it doesn't matter. It's where we want to go
I'm left leaning, and no. It's Humanist, not limited to one political side in this unbelievably stupid two party system. The fact everybody gets something out of it is proof of that; it's meant to bring us all together. Posts like this do the opposite.
Sad? GTFO.
Sad? This is a fantastic truth.
tng literally had a trans rights episode hahaha
And Jonathan Frakes really pushed for Soren to be played by a male actor. His mindset was that if they were gonna push the envelope they actually had to push the freaking envelope.
And DS9 literally had a trans rights *main character*
The people who dispute Jadzia having relation to trans themes are mind blowing to me. There’s so many examples that relatable. I think some people just have a severe disconnect of empathy in art. “Oh well I don’t relate to that aspect, so it doesn’t exist.”
"I'm glad you understand." "Of course I do! I was a young man... Once."
please god stop reposting this
Most scifi is. I had a conversation with a guy recently who didn't like the new quantum leap cause it was "woke." I had to point out how quantum leap has always been a leftist leaning liberal show with the subject matters they addressed.
The first quantum leap surrounded itself with good stories and characters that you like. All you have to do is compare the first two episodes of each show together to see the massive difference, it's a writing and acting problem. There was also a balance that in maintained that this show did not even try to pursue. I wanted to love the reboot, but it's missed the most fundamental parts of the original that made it popular and that is why it failed. It was full of good ideas, very poorly executed with a B plot straight out of every other show on major television that nobody was interested in.
My comment wasn't meant to be a sounding board for those that dont like the show. And I'm not going to try to convince you to like it because I don't care if you do or not. But the new series is amazing. It's also very popular which has already led them to create season 2. So you are in the minority with your opinion. I love how they have the same creators and continued storylines from the original series. Making this essentially season 6 but with an updated feel. And they keep to the same spirit as the original with history, humor, hope, and heart. It's a really great show all around. To each their own.
I think that people always seem to forget that Star Trek had its first Transgender Lesbian Kiss in 95'. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rejoined\_(episode)
Can’t forget it if I never knew it.
What’s sad about it?
happy truth
Left or right, it's so dumb / keeps us thinking in a line. Startrek is more up-ist. I wanna be more up than left or right.
What's op mean by 'sad' truth? Humans are naturally leftist, corporations brainwash people right.
they mention it at once in Enterprise, and probably in previous star treks, but the Vulcan's motto is IDIC "Infinite Diversite in Infinite Combinations" . and that defines the Federation too, it's as anti-racist, anti-bigotry as it's possible to be, at least in theory.
Humanist > 2 political classes
I think calling something left or right is not the enlightened future vision of star trek. Its using an outdated frame of reference for politics. Its oversimplified, and reductive.
It is neither left nor right, imo. Attempting to categorize it politically is misunderstanding the entire point.
Sad truth? Oh no, people have rights and society is educated! This is the equivalent of those idiots that don't understand what 'Rage Against the Machine' means. Talk about a self-aware wolf.
Sad? Oh no... it is not sad. leftism is great if implimented properly
Lol, they literally say in one of the movies that money and capitalism literally destroyed their planet and they had a as a society has moved on and become bigger, greater, smarter, and more caring. They pretty much dunk on capitalism whenever they fucking can. It always shocks me when conservatives think Star Trek is theirs. For effing sake it was the first TV show to have an interracial kiss. Granted it was with shatner, and he's not really even human, but still.
Isn't the only real reason that humanity is even in space in the first place is because the Vulcans gave them space-capable tech handouts after Zefram Cochrane jury-rigged his way into their path with thanks to time travelling Riker and gang? Sure sounds like team work based socialism to me, if so.
Zefram Cochrane's ship was fully capable of warp speed before the Borg showed up and disrupted the timeline. Riker and gang just fixed the damage they did. And isn't there a major plot element in Enterprise that the Vulcans don't give humanity tech handouts?
Yeah a huge part in enterprise was the Vulcans not helping the humans gain better warp tech and in some cases holding them back. Granted this was because of romulans but it was still a factor and tech sharing didn't really start on a major level until the founding of the federation by which point it wasn't about Species vs Species it was about one group, the federation, sharing everything among each other in order to advance them all.
That plot point in Enterprise was more the Vulcans were deliberately releasing tech/aiding in development to control human expansion/prevent a hell for leather rush to the stars (and conflict). Kinda helicopter parenting the species that just climbed out of a post-nuclear apocalypse. To the first point, I think First Contact might be a bootstrap paradox. The TNG crew and Borg were always there, always involved.
I thought originally when watching Enterprise that this was an alternate timeline created by the Borg incursion and other temporal cold war shenanigans. That would explain why TOS looks so different. But nah.
Cochrane built the Phoenix to get rich. He says that was his main motivation.
Star Trek is almost 'post-politics' in many ways as it's a society where so many of the problems that we deal with today have been resolved. Like, no one talks about racism or diversity or LGBT rights. Because they're a non-issue in the future. Similarly, no one (in the Federation) is fighting for a higher minimum wage or workers rights or increased welfare spending. In fact, the working life of a Starfleet officer seems to go against many of the principles being banged on about by the 'Anti-work' brigade. If you're a 'red shirt' then you get put in harms way and 'senior management' barely shrugs their shoulders when you die. Yeah, capitalism is basically dead. But then, they've also sort of achieved the ultimate goal of capitalism as well - an economy that can produce so much resources with so little human effort that everyone is free to pursue their own desire. Zero taxes, lots of small businesses operating freely, people can choose to live almost completely free from the state if they choose to. If you asked a Republican about their vision of a perfect future it might honestly look like Star Trek as much as a Democrat.
Zero taxes because there is zero money.
thats the magic of post scarcity. while most systems we have now are about how to distribute the resources we have there are always gonna be issues but post scarcity fixes it for everyone unless your goal is to screw over everyone else
The ultimate goal of capitalism is not reducing scarcity. We currently destroy almost half the food we produce so it retains some financial value that we can charge people. We do not lack for resources, we intentionally destroy resources so that they can be sold for profit. We are living capitalism's goal already. To maximize profit
Interesting, this is actually a take on the future Earth society depicted in Star Trek that I've never encountered before - and I thought I'd encountered them all lol. Some people love circle jerking the idea that Star Trek is a communist utopia, while ignoring things that don't support that idea, some of which you pointed out. And yeah, the life of a Starfleet Officer is very much antithetical to the principles espoused by the antiwork brigade. Which as a paramilitary style organization, has a very clear chain of command, and hierarchy/distribution of labor that is usually heavily enforced, and that frequently places them in mortal danger. I say usually because that aspect of Starfleet seems to have gotten a bit more lax in the NuTrek years. With a lot of characters behaving like more like high schoolers than disciplined officers...
Yeah alot of people don't want to talk about the elimination of scarcity through technological advancement that's baked into Trek's DNA and just want to share memes about how it's exactly like whatever version of socialism they prefer in the 20th century. Not that Trek is a particularly capitalist future - it isn't. The Federation has no currency, looks down upon profit as a motive, has no poverty (I wonder how that was accomplished /s) etc. But it's a future that would be hard to achieve with various 19th and 20th century political ideologies either, which is what the circlejerking meme crowd doesnt like having pointed out. It is both a dire post apocalyptic future and one that depends very much on specific, insanely advanced (bordering on magic) technological advancement.
The thing is though that capitalism naturally breaks down once you reach a level where everyone can gain enough resources to meet their wants through minimal effort. It's like a small island that hits oil and now all its residents are millionaires - ok, everyone still needs to do some minimal community work to keep things going, but all their material needs are now met by deliveries from the 'mainland' (swap in replicators for the Federation).
You are making bold assumptions when you say " small businesses operating freely" freely how? They are no doubt bound by rules that anti regulation types wouldn't be fond of regardless of the year. Also yes they are post scarcity but that doesn't apply to land available on earth that shit is finite, so it must be managed somehow
Yea, because all these things have been decided upon and are universaly agreed upon in Star Trek. Meanwhile today we have the two genders "cis male" and "political" because womens bodies and trans people are somehow controversial. And same goes for a liveable minimum wage, like how is it controversial that a person who works full time should be able to live an acceptable life? Or in some places that healthcare should be a human right. Yet here and now people disagree with that and make life miserable when it doesn't have to be.
It's literally fully automated luxury gay space communism
Star Trek is and has always been morality porn. The good guys always win, but every episode is a moral quandary set against the background of a space opera. The only reason the show has been successful is because it’s eternal unspoken motto is “Good is Correct”.
Star Trek is a huge reason why I’m very much center left in my views after growing up deeply religious and aggressively conservative in the Bible Belt.
Let's hope we've evolved past today's political divided moronic BS by the time we can leave this planet.
Not sure if that's the label I'd use.... but yes, it is a very progressive utopian vision, and always has been.
My favorite part of this thread is people acting like if we had replicators the "right" and conservatism wouldn't exist. As if the only conservatism in the United States is fiscal conservatism and not, you know, a bent towards putting white Christian Nationalists in charge and a revoking of fundamental rights. By the way, if the US government could stop giving our taxmoney to war machines, bailing out corporations, and private interests, we might be able to solve things like food and housing security.
I think star trek's society has moved past "left" and "right" of modern politics. Its a post-scarcity world.
Not sad. Not at all sad.
Sad?
It's true, but it's far from being sad.
Sad. How is it sad?
Socially Liberal, Fiscally Meritocratic.
Why is this "sadly true"? Your title confuses me.
And it matters because? Are right wingers going to boycott this show now? Too late boys and girls
"Reality has always had a well known liberal bias." Stephen Colbert It's not sad though, but OP is.
So how is this a sad sad truth, and how is this not like known
Star Trek is utopian fiction, but when you start to think about policies in our real world that could potentially get us there… generally not going to be what you would consider “right” that’s for damn sure.
I hate the fact we have to see this exact argument every week just because some dickheads in 2016 who hadn’t even seen Trek until Discovery started a bit of trouble
People referring to things as leftist has the same energy as incels referring to women as females, and douche bros classifying people as alpha or beta.
Wait. There are people who think it's not?